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00:00:01
Kara Redman, Founder and Lead Strategist - Backroom
22 Plays2 months ago
In this episode, Tracey speaks with Kara Redman, founder and lead strategist of Backroom, about the evolution of brand strategy, the power of personal branding, and why showing up authentically in public spaces (especially on LinkedIn) is both a risk and a powerful tool. Kara shares insights on how her personal brand has brought unexpected opportunities, her experiences in scaling and re-scaling Backroom, and the importance of building relationships over transactions in business.
They discuss AI’s impact on branding and content, how to filter out the noise of bad advice, and why brands need to embrace individual voices rather than relying solely on corporate messaging. This episode is a must-listen for entrepreneurs, marketers, and creative professionals looking to navigate an industry that is shifting under their feet.
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Transcript
Introduction and Relationship
00:00:07
Tracey Halvorsen
All right. Well, thanks, everyone. Whoever might be chiming in and listening in for today's podcast, um I am going to be talking with Kara Redman. Kara is the founder and lead strategist at Backroom, and I have known Kara for, gosh, I mean, is it can we say 20 years?
00:00:25
Tracey Halvorsen
Has it been 20 years? Probably pretty close.
00:00:27
Kara
probably not that long, probably like 12 to 14, I think, because I think it was before I started, like right before I started back room and were 11 this year.
00:00:30
Tracey Halvorsen
All right. well
00:00:36
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah. All right. So yeah, probably 13, 14, um, feels like forever.
00:00:40
Kara
I know.
00:00:44
Tracey Halvorsen
And you know, what's great though is, is to be talking with you in this format, which is very loose, very loose format for a podcast, but I just always have enjoyed our conversations because they followed the same kind of line of thinking, which is.
00:00:59
Tracey Halvorsen
You know, it's a wild ride and there is no formula and nothing stays the same. And, you know, it's all messy people stuff. And so I would love to, you know, just dive in and hear a little bit more about what you've been up to this last
Agency Focus and Personal Branding
00:01:16
Tracey Halvorsen
year. Because there have been a lot of changes in your focus for the agency, for yourself, for your brand, what you've been doing on on LinkedIn and growing your audience.
00:01:25
Tracey Halvorsen
um So and give me ah some sort of summary of like what this last wild year has been like for you and where you've seen success.
00:01:33
Kara
Yes. It's hard to summarize this crazy year we've been in, but I'm going to do my best. So originally started my company as, you know, brand strategy and identity agency. And we've grown and expanded and tried things and pushed up against boundaries and dozens of ways and have really come back to the core of loving brand strategy and wanting to do the work.
00:01:57
Kara
um I think that what you and I share and why we have stayed so connected is we like to try things and believe that our work and ourselves as humans doing that work can be multifaceted, right? There's ways to pull in, for example, your artwork and into the strategy that you do when you have this really beautiful multifaceted brand of like, here's all the things I like to do and create. And I think that that um tendency toward curiosity and the desire for creation can lead to things that you didn't imagine.
00:02:27
Kara
I think a lot of founders, and I know this was my experience, have this sort of, you look for mentors and there's this formulaic approach and like you buy baseline selling,
Team Dynamics and Client Values
00:02:37
Kara
right? And there's all these things that you're supposed to do as a leader, or like grow or die. And I think that the more I've grown and the more people ask me for advice, I realize I don't really have any. It's more right about kind of tuning into what you need in that moment and how your work is checking boxes for you in ways that also serves other people. So over the past year, it's really like our the team size and scale has changed. And, um you know, as some folks have left, we've reevaluated. Like, do we need to have rehire for that? Are we actually like bringing in the right clients and the things that we want to do, which have been the ones that have had the rub?
00:03:12
Kara
um But I've been really fortunate to be able to rely on my following with my personal brand on LinkedIn to bring in people who believe in my ethos, not just the work
Opportunities through Personal Branding
00:03:20
Kara
product that we do. So I'm just along for the ride and showing up for whatever happens.
00:03:21
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:03:24
Kara
And it's been a fun one.
00:03:28
Tracey Halvorsen
It feels like, um and and tell me if I'm wrong here, but with all of the sort of work you've done to really get your your own personal brand and voice and and beliefs and ideas and um creativity out there around brand and marketing, but also around these these networks and communities,
00:03:52
Tracey Halvorsen
and relationships. um Has that yielded more rewarding work in terms of the things that you get to do and the people you get to do them with? Do you feel like because you've you've gotten past some of that formulaic, like here's what we sell, here's how we sell it, here are the services we offer, is that opening doors for you and in unexpected ways?
00:04:14
Kara
incredibly unexpected ways. And it's not just the clients we bring in, it's the partners that we found, like I've gotten beautiful brand partnerships, I have people that I've met offline, I have a group of content creators that we're planning trips right now to go and like record content together. I've just I've been able to forge relationships that are really interesting. And when you talk about the work that I've done to build that brand, it's like, of course, there's tactical work to create content and all of that. But I think the work has been more self work, because it's, you know, when you're pulling away from the things that you feel like you should write about or what you're supposed to do on a professional platform. Like, let's talk about the benefits and like case studies. And when you start to pull away from that and go, this is actually something that I feel and is personal to me. And I'm going to put it out there and see if other people resonate with that. You get a lot of shit, right? You get a lot of people are coming in and want to tear you down.
00:05:07
Kara
But there's this, there's something about like creating in public is almost like a therapy.
00:05:07
Tracey Halvorsen
Oh yeah.
00:05:13
Kara
um And you learn about yourself and you're like, wait a minute, why did this random comment from Bob Smith make me feel some sort of way and you know, I'm out here building and so there's a lot of I think, um self reflection and work that
Handling Criticism and Online Trolls
00:05:25
Kara
has gone into it. But it certainly has opened doors, because I think that the more you're able to share the things that you actually feel and are passionate with, even it's ah if it's a very small subset of people that see that and go, Yeah, like that's, a I didn't know how to put that into words. And I feel that too, you start to connect those people in all facets, whether clients, partners, employees, colleagues, and you start to create this like little acorn of people who will build with you and create with you. And that's what I didn't know I was looking for until I found it.
00:05:52
Tracey Halvorsen
That's great. And I also just want to take a minute to say, you know, congratulations to you just being a powerhouse out there as a woman in this line of work and in this industry um and putting yourself and your ideas out there and making great fun of the trolls that show up, um of which what 99% of them are men, just the, their,
00:06:20
Tracey Halvorsen
I love what you do. You just annihilate them in your comments um and rebukes, which is hysterical, but also like, go away trolls, like go back to your basements.
00:06:33
Tracey Halvorsen
Stop being so obviously threatened by a woman ah in this space.
00:06:38
Kara
We're telling ourselves, right?
00:06:38
Tracey Halvorsen
But anyway, I love that. What's that?
00:06:42
Kara
They're telling on themselves like those of us who understand a little bit of the psychology behind it.
Navigating Disrupted Industries
00:06:47
Kara
It's like someone that you don't know on the internet made you feel so angry. You felt like you needed to voice it in the comments that that's not on me.
00:06:55
Tracey Halvorsen
It's a cry for help, and I hope their mothers see it. But um in the meantime, you know I know that's taken some bravery and and thick skin, and you've all you know you've always had that. But what advice would you give?
00:07:10
Tracey Halvorsen
to someone, especially a woman, a young woman who wants to get into this industry, which has become you know so disrupted by AI and so threatening again, so threatening from like the bro culture and the tech bros, and it's just not a very hospitable or welcoming environment if from a lot of viewpoints.
00:07:34
Tracey Halvorsen
And how is a a young person, especially a woman, supposed to kind of get their foot in the door and get the experience and exposure that they need um when it's it's not the world it was 15 years ago?
00:07:48
Kara
I think advice is tough because everybody has their own unique thing. There's definitely, like I said, the self work piece is am I afraid to put this out there because It is vague enough that it could be loosely interpreted as something that I don't intend.
00:08:02
Kara
Those are the things that I'm like, I'm not going to post it, right? If it could easily get twisted, I don't want to do it. Or is it something that feels vulnerable and I just don't want to deal with the backlash today? And I think just the same kind of mentality of like, I really want to wear something cute today, but I also just don't want to deal with the street pox.
00:08:16
Kara
I'm going to put my sweats on. Like we all have those days, right?
00:08:17
Tracey Halvorsen
but
00:08:18
Kara
just says as females, but I think um you know understanding that the internet is the internet, it's going to be what it's going to be, and being open and receptive to that, understanding it's okay to take a break, limiting the access. like people I think the more we present ourselves, particularly with vertical video being so popular, people feel like they know you because they followed you and they feel some sort of a connection.
00:08:42
Kara
And recognizing that people are going to feel like, oh, there's Kara. I know her. And like they feel like they're your friend, even though you've never interacted. You get to control that access and what people have to you. People don't know me. I don't talk about my family. I don't talk about my house life. like So just understanding that you get to control what you put out there. Expect the trolls. And I'll say that. ah ah friend of mine actually met through LinkedIn, he has the same people who troll me troll him.
00:09:08
Kara
And I was like, Oh, boy, and this is wonderful, gender equality.
00:09:11
Tracey Halvorsen
Oh, right, right.
00:09:15
Kara
Yay. you know I think there's just people who are angry and they're just not for you.
00:09:23
Tracey Halvorsen
What about, um,
00:09:26
Tracey Halvorsen
i mean I feel like with ah with AI in particular, like those entry-level jobs, those ways that you kind of got your foot in the door in the past, are and those roles are are getting kind of eaten up um because they're just not required anymore because they've got there are there are enough tools that are affordable enough to do a decent enough job that um I really wonder like, gosh, where do you start? And you know my only advice is that you you kind of just have to get a lot braver, a lot faster.
00:10:01
Tracey Halvorsen
And one of the things, i I mean, I tell this to people who have been doing it for 15, 20 years and and should feel comfortable considering themselves experts, but no one is going to show up on like day two or year two or year five and and say, okay, you now have the authority to put your opinions out there and be considered an expert. No one is going to show up and give you that.
00:10:26
Tracey Halvorsen
So you have to take that for yourself. So even if you're new, you're just starting out, if you have opinions, if you have something that you're passionate about, like go ahead and put it out there, even if somebody wants to fight you about it. um That's great. That's great if if somebody wants to argue with you. But you can't kind of just sit back and wait to feel like you've gotten to the place where where you can start having opinions and having a perspective. um i you know I think I learned that early on just being in art school. ah There is no way around it. But in the world of of marketing or brand or design,
00:11:07
Tracey Halvorsen
um you know do your study your your heroes, and have but have your opinions and and constantly feed yourself and be willing to change your mind. um Never stop growing and learning. but I think that if you sit back and kind of wait till you feel like you've earned it, you're going to wait too long.
00:11:27
Kara
Or if you wait until you're perfect, right? And you have this finite thing.
00:11:29
Tracey Halvorsen
but
00:11:31
Kara
And I think like that's a mentality of am am I doing something because I need to always be right and perfect? Or am I doing something because I want to be more visible and be part of a community, right? And I think like you've brought up a great point being able to change your mind.
00:11:46
Kara
And being passionate about things is incredibly important. But even if you don't know what you're passionate about yet, a great way to sort of shape your viewpoint is to put raw ideas out there, raw thoughts and see that feedback and help it use that to shape your opinions in the future. Like you don't have to feel like, cause I remember I would come on like, I don't really know what to talk about. I don't really know what I have. And I'm like, I've been doing this for 15 years and I felt like I didn't have a voice. And the best way to develop your voice is just to start.
00:12:12
Kara
talking. And I think this idea of being able to live out loud a little bit and not worry so much if people come and counter you and say that you're wrong, I mean, people there's people doing things and there's people criticizing people doing things.
00:12:26
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:12:26
Kara
And the people who are doing things aren't looking adjacent at other people and going like, that's wrong, cutting things apart because they're in it and they know what it's like, right? And so I think really understanding who your audience is. Like, are you doing this to make everyone happy and be popular? Are you doing this to find the right people and actually be part of an ecosystem? And that mentality I think saves a lot of headache and hardship as you go through the process.
00:12:49
Tracey Halvorsen
Totally agree.
AI's Impact on Creativity and Content
00:12:51
Tracey Halvorsen
um what do you What do you think is going to happen with all of this AI disruption in terms of you know even even just to the quality of of the work that's being done, um the amount of the amount of noise that generative AI is able to put out there, whether it's content or visuals or whatever. It just seems like we are going to get an ever increasing sort of tsunami level amount of pretty homogenized
00:13:23
Tracey Halvorsen
uh, you know, regurgitated stuff that, um, if anything, it seems like it might be a really opportune time for people to lean in on their individual voice and their unique, quirky perspective. Um, because that's going to, I think, stand and start comparison to the volume of AI generated stuff that we're going to see.
00:13:49
Kara
I agree, and I really liken it back to like... the like 2010 when it was content was king was everything all the bro stuffs were talking about. And everybody had a blog and then you had like highly regulated organizations like banks and law firms were purchasing blog posts.
00:14:05
Kara
And so the same blog posts would be everywhere.
00:14:07
Tracey Halvorsen
Right.
00:14:08
Kara
So we've always had like since content has been around, there has been a digital landfill of absolute shit. And I think we're going to have really great content that comes out of AI. And we're going to have really shit content that comes from a human.
00:14:19
Kara
And I think The reverse is true. And so I think as much as we can continue to look at tools as the the ability to produce more quality things as humans, we're always going to be able to look at quality, right? And if we're thinking about outcomes, particularly in the marketing world and the brand strategy world, like, yeah, you can go and write me a list of community guidelines using chat GPT in less than five minutes. But if I look at it and it doesn't have any real world application to what I'm doing with this particular brand or client, and it's useless to me, right? It's just a set of guidelines. I think it for us at Backroom and the way I know you and I both work is
00:14:54
Kara
you can either show up to work and go through a list of activities and not really care about the impact of them, or you can come to work and think about what outcome you need to have. And I think that the way we use AI towards that is going to be the telltale sign. I see a lot of people right now are scrambling like, oh, I can't use M dashes anymore, because it's like everyone thinks it's like the telltale sign for AI. And I'm like, you're not taking my M dashes, number one, like my mother is a grammar teacher.
00:15:18
Kara
I use the MDash and I think it's how do we continue to look for quality regardless of who created that piece of content. That's what's going to be more important.
00:15:29
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah. So, you know, it makes me think a lot about, um, story storytelling, the importance of stories. You know, I remember, uh, maybe six or seven years ago, it was like, you couldn't even use the word storytelling that had gotten, that was too much of a buzzword, but it really strikes me today. Cause that is one thing that AI does not have. It doesn't have its own unique story. I mean, that is is a big differentiator.
00:15:58
Tracey Halvorsen
um it's It's a great collaborator and editor and helper um in a lot of ways, but it does not have kind of the essence of a story in the way it thinks about things and the way that it it can connect.
00:16:14
Tracey Halvorsen
um And as humans, I think that's such a core aspect of what makes us unique and and what we use to connect with people, with other people. so And and you know it's not something that animals do. It's it's very unique to to us.
00:16:31
Tracey Halvorsen
um And so you know that also just makes me think about the fact that Stories don't happen just sitting behind your computer and like you know studying and reading all the how tos and following the tactics and doing all those things. What do you do to kind of keep feeding your life, your inspirational well, um so that your story keeps evolving and not just in a one layered way?
Living Fully for Creative Inspiration
00:17:04
Kara
I think it's from from doing, I think if we're always looking for how can I inspire the next output, but we're not actually living life. I think that's where it gets tricky. Like I think a non-marketing example, like I was a yoga teacher for a very long time and I would travel and study and it was a core to my life. And then when I started my company, I realized I was showing up to classes to teach when I hadn't even practiced. I hadn't had time to, I hadn't gone to a class myself. And so I dried up.
00:17:33
Kara
because I didn't have anything to give because I wasn't feeding myself this passion, like I let the passion die. And I think that we get and inspired by things while we're doing them, right? Everyone's like, oh, like it's like when I'm showering and processing something or when I'm on a walk or when I'm actually in a collaborative session with someone, when that's when the cool stuff happens. And if we sit down and we haven't done shit all week and then we're trying to like come up with inspiration for something, inspiration comes from us acting out our passions in real life.
00:18:02
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:18:02
Kara
And so like, I'm constantly, like I have to curb, I'm like, I'm sitting there talking to my partner and I'm like, well this is to make a great LinkedIn post. I'm like, you can't do that to your person.
00:18:08
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah but Yeah, I agree.
00:18:09
Kara
I'm like, I gotta to like pull it back. But showing up and living your life and being curious and getting out of this idea of like, I need to avoid everything so I don't have like any stress or unpredictability in my life.
00:18:19
Kara
Like throw yourself into it. Go do crazy stuff and you're going to have lots to talk about.
00:18:26
Tracey Halvorsen
And it's it's usually like the most random things that you know that that are the most inspiring and just like, oh, I never thought about this from that perspective before.
00:18:29
Kara
Wow.
00:18:37
Tracey Halvorsen
um And there are so many things to go do or or read about or conversations to have with people that you would normally maybe never have conversations with. So I do think a lot of it is is in the art of yeah I mean, it's a collaboration, it's conversation, it's communication.
The Creative Process and Collaboration
00:18:58
Tracey Halvorsen
you know I think it's very hard to do with yourself.
00:19:02
Tracey Halvorsen
um Whereas the exchange of conversation, I've always just found it to be so such a great catapult. to someplace new, um that, yeah, you can get there in your own mind through your own processes. But when you sprinkle in the ingredients that other people bring to that conversation, and if you can get into a really good collaborative conversation about something challenging, or like let's try to think about it differently, or you know let's try to brainstorm on something, that's where real magic can happen, I think.
00:19:38
Kara
I agree and I always think I'm so smart until I present ideas to my team and they have like 85 things to say. I'm like, okay, it's way better now, right? Like, but I think as doers, like I um ah would say I'm probably addicted to like the crossing things off and getting things done and have really struggled throughout my life to detach my sense of personal value and identity to like what I produce and create, right? Like I'm trying to be better at like just being and not always feeling like I did something. Like thanks mom for those habits.
00:20:08
Kara
So I think being able to kind of step back from, I just have to like have focused time and produce and get these things out the door and allowing more time and space and brain space for that creative flow and hearing other people's ideas and saying like, maybe it does take three weeks to get done, but it's more beautiful and the process is fun. I think respecting the journey as much as the outcome um has been a very humbling lesson for me. And I have avoided to, I think,
00:20:38
Kara
creating extra work because I always like to get ahead of things and then I'm like wait a minute something changed and I actually didn't need to do that after all so I think the creative process being open to things rather than having to control the process and the outcome is and difficult but it makes everything better. The output's better, the creative journey is better, but it's very difficult for people like me to do.
00:21:00
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah. How do you balance that, right? Especially with, with client services, especially with brand where it's, you know, like the heart and soul, you inevitably get invested. Um, but you're still, you know, running a business and need to get paid for your time and your ideas and what you're bringing to the exchange.
00:21:27
Tracey Halvorsen
And yet that always starts to feel so like dirty, um even though it's not. But how do you balance the passion and the the commitment to the relationship and the investment that you start to make in the work and seeing it succeed with the realities of a contract and you know budgets and all of that boring, cold, lifeless stuff?
Balancing Passion and Business Realities
00:21:51
Kara
This is a great question and something that I think was really relevant to things we were doing this past year. Our whole mantra was, why do more in 24? And at first glance, it feels lazy. But we um got to this stage where we were trying to innovate more than the client or their business unit needed. And so I think there's a matching energy that needs to happen too, where are we trying to create the next best thing with a brand that's like just not there yet and really just needs these foundational elements?
00:22:21
Kara
And I think the hard part for me personally within that has been, I always want the next stage of growth. I always want the next challenge. And at the same time, I'm a very seasoned brand strategist.
00:22:33
Kara
And so I can walk into a room and say some one-on-one stuff to some people and their minds are blown, right? And so I'm trying to lean into that a little bit more where I have the inherent expertise that is still very valuable without it feeling like a personal challenge to myself.
00:22:39
Tracey Halvorsen
Right.
00:22:50
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:22:50
Kara
So that's been the balance for me is like what do they actually need versus what's the 100% I can give because sometimes they really truly need 30% because they're not really at that 100% yet and that's okay. So when you get to that level where you're able to say all right this client's here and this client's here and you're matching energy then you're building together and that friction and rub starts to go away of like I'm trying to drag them up a hill right.
00:23:16
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah. have you I mean, you've always been on the agency side, right? Have you ever been in-house?
00:23:22
Kara
Yeah, my first agency was 2010. So everything I did before that was in house in a variety of industries.
00:23:28
Tracey Halvorsen
Okay.
00:23:31
Kara
But I've been at, you know, so that's, you know, 15 years I've been agency side a long time.
00:23:35
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah, but a lot of the people that you talk to are and clients right there in their in-house So they're working for under the umbrella of ah a brand or a company On the same things kind of different different viewpoint altogether um How valuable do you think it is to have for the people who are in-house to have that outsider perspective where you're not You're not contaminated by the years of process and politics and bureaucracy and, you know, failures or whatever. um You get to come in and maybe infuse a little bit of that excitement.
00:24:16
Kara
And I think it depends. I think some brands have invested really well in house, right? A great example is Boland Branch, the sheet, the linen company, they have invested from day one, everything that they've done has been in house.
00:24:25
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:24:29
Kara
And so I don't, you know, who am I to say, Hey, you should invest money in an outside perspective of what they're doing is working. And I, you know, I think, um, you know, there's a rise of like fractional marketers coming up to where they can kind of pop in and out.
00:24:43
Kara
um I think where we've been able to add the most values ah value across industries is something that we see happening with like a CPG client is completely inaccessible to someone who's in like pharmaceutical, but there still might be tactics and strategies that we can pull just from our experience with that to try something new in a different industry and I think.
00:25:05
Kara
There are agencies that are very industry specific and then then there are of course in-house teams that are going to like industry trade shows and reading industry publications. And sometimes I think it can be difficult to look outside and know what's even in the toolbox that would have some sort of a practical application to what you're doing, right?
00:25:21
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah Yeah, I think about that a lot because um you know with Adeo, we've got such an interesting cross-section of of clients you know from
00:25:22
Kara
So I think it depends, it depends on the need.
00:25:36
Tracey Halvorsen
elected officials like the governor to to now higher eds again to um to cannabis, right? To like totally emerging brand new markets um that aren't even federally legal. ah But but it's it's fascinating because you know having spent 20 years in a very traditional sort of insulated market like higher ed, which I did in my past,
00:26:02
Tracey Halvorsen
I knew that you know the last thing I wanted to do was kind of get sucked down into that sort of just, it's just like a whirlpool. you know It's just like gravity.
00:26:19
Tracey Halvorsen
um You need to be able to escape it sometimes if you want to innovate or go new places. And some industries are so insulated and so self-reflecting and they don't get exposed to a lot of cross cross industries. I've always found that, you know, and there's always the argument about agencies and whether they should be generalists or whether they should be specialized. And um that argument changes all the time. And I think there's There's different ah cases when it's accurate to say one versus the other is better.
00:26:56
Tracey Halvorsen
Um, but I find that I'm going to learn more and have more opportunity for real traction or real momentum.
00:27:08
Tracey Halvorsen
If I'm not pulling from the same bucket of stuff, you know, it just, it's just to me like a no brainer.
00:27:14
Kara
Mm hmm.
00:27:17
Tracey Halvorsen
You can't just keep going back to the same bucket in, in life and in work.
00:27:22
Kara
When it goes back to the yoga example, right? It's like, you start like, you know, I'm just been eating potatoes for a week, and you're asking me to like, whip up an amazing meal.
00:27:25
Tracey Halvorsen
Right.
00:27:30
Kara
I'm uninspired right now. And I don't you know, I just, you have to find, I think, a richness and I ah To me, it comes down to like a life philosophy, frankly, I think if you're not the type of person who sees this as finite and sees opportunity to learn and grow and experience collaboration with other people in any capacity, I think it's very difficult to show up and do it at work.
00:27:56
Kara
So I think just being able to have a mind of curiosity, which you have to humble yourself and like really recognize, which gets existential that like, we know the more you know, the less you realize you know, right?
00:28:09
Kara
Like we have no idea know why we're on this brand over rock spinning and God knows what.
00:28:09
Tracey Halvorsen
Right.
00:28:14
Kara
So I think the more you can have a sort of like a a lust for life, right? And an an excitement about like what tomorrow could bring and what the universe could have for you.
00:28:25
Kara
I think you can really get stuck in stagnant. And as we learn, the older we get, the more neural pathways are like, you know, building walls. And I'm just really trying to make sure that doesn't happen because you almost get frozen in this moment of perspective, right of your life.
00:28:40
Kara
So having more to draw on for sure, but I don't think that's impossible.
00:28:40
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:28:44
Kara
If you are niched in an industry, it's just what are you going to feed yourself?
00:28:49
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
Seeking Inspiration through New Experiences
00:28:50
Tracey Halvorsen
where Where do you think you can kind of look? How does somebody find that path? how does somebody you know How does someone start to know like, okay, well, I know I want to get outside of my um my habits here. I don't want to stagnate. I don't want to go to the same conventions and read the same articles and just be so you know singularly focused. um where do you Where can you start to like get some inkling of what might be those little sources of inspiration?
00:29:24
Kara
It's tough because our algorithms are designed to keep us in bubbles, right? um So while I don't know what others should do, I can say what I do. And I just had dinner. with a dear friend on Friday. And I was like, where do you go? When you're when you're not working, like where do like where do you go hang out? like What conferences are you going to? And really listening to what other people are doing. I'm a big believer that you attract more than like pursuing things because it's really difficult to connect those dots moving forward. So I think even going back to being more vocal with your own stuff and seeing what comes your way can be incredibly important because you'll start to attract people who have similar
00:30:02
Kara
um sort of perspectives on an ethos level and be able to open doors for you. I like to find things that feel, i I'll notice when I start getting too comfortable or my cousin who's on life 360 with me, she's like, hi, you haven't left your house in three days, go for a walk, right?
00:30:16
Kara
So yeah I have those moments where I recognize I'm getting into those patterns of not feeding.
00:30:17
Tracey Halvorsen
ah so
00:30:21
Kara
and i I do think we all need them. And I'll find something that maybe is like a little left of comfort for me or call up an old friend and do something and just listen. So I think it's just around being open to new opportunities when they come up and like saying yes to new things. um And some people are more introverted like me and just want to read new things and others can actually go out and socialize and come home with three or four new ideas. But I mean, if you're and content marketing, why not go to social media week? like If you you know ah see a conference coming up that has people with different perspectives that's adjacent to your work, like why not ask your boss for a little budget and go check it out in that work? So I think that there's ways to put yourself outside of your comfort zone and just be open to whatever feast awaits you.
00:31:03
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah, I think that's such great advice it really is just about say it's like say yes to the universe. you know say yes go Say yes to opening the door and walking through it or opening the book or signing up for the free, whatever it might be, um and just participating.
00:31:24
Kara
Mm hmm.
00:31:24
Tracey Halvorsen
And it's like going to the gym. like The hardest part is going.
00:31:27
Kara
Mm hmm.
00:31:28
Tracey Halvorsen
It's not doing the work. So it's just it's just opening the door and saying yes. And so many times, you know even even like scheduling these podcasts, ah there are certain people that you know really like they want a structure. They want a format. Like, what are we going to talk about? What are what am I supposed to say? And I'm like, who knows? That's what it is. It's the journey. It's the conversation. That's what we're doing.
00:31:56
Tracey Halvorsen
And that is not something that we are really trained at in life, um but that is life.
00:32:04
Kara
And we've gotten where everything needs to be planned too, right? Like I just remember growing up, my mom's friends would just come by, you know, like knock, knock and come hang out. And I, you know, texted another Tracy friend of mine the other day and I was like, Hey, like, is any chance like you're randomly open for dinner tonight and her kid was sick and she couldn't I said,
00:32:22
Kara
I hate planning things in advance because I don't know what mood I'm going to be in. And then the day comes I want to do something and I don't have plan. And I can't reconcile this in my weird minds. I was like, I told her, I said, I'm going to start asking spontaneously when I want to do stuff. And if you're okay with that, I'm totally okay. If you say no every single time, but she's like, deal, let's do it. Because I'm just tired of this. Like you can't really plan things that feel uncomfortable in advance sometimes because life just especially as a founder, right?
00:32:50
Kara
Like life just life's and sometimes you need to collapse or sometimes a client comes up and it's really difficult to do that. And I think we've kind of lost this spontaneity of like speaking of universe, following the flow of what you need in that moment versus trying to dissipate and need two weeks in advance because we're all busy.
00:33:03
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah.
00:33:05
Kara
Just I'm over it. I just want to show up in the moment for the thing that I need. And if I get there, I don't really want anymore. I can always go home, you know,
00:33:14
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. um So much of ah life has you know gone virtual since the pandemic. And there's a lot of there are a lot of great things about it. and I love my home office studio and all of that. But when I get a chance to start working with a client, I get so excited about seeing, even if it is travel, even if it's like awful travel,
00:33:40
Tracey Halvorsen
um I'm so excited about the idea of like, oh, I get to get out there in the world and go see these people and like, oh, maybe they want to come, you know, see me and we can do something fun here. Like it's you just can't. You cannot underestimate the value in those kind of increasingly disruptive activities.
Travel and Creativity
00:34:05
Tracey Halvorsen
for getting you out of your comfort zone, getting you in different rooms and spaces. I mean, I think that you know they always say that travel is so good for for your brain and growth, right? Because you're forced into forming new neural patterns. you know You're trying to navigate a place you've never been before. All of that newness is just like miracle growth for your your brain and your spirit. um and I know you're a big travel ah fan as well.
00:34:33
Tracey Halvorsen
But I always think of you know the best thing about having clients all over the country instead of just you know down the street or on the Zoom is that you get a chance to get out and and really squeeze that that orange for all of its its juice when it comes to just change.
00:34:52
Kara
Agreed. And you get to plan cute outfits and be in person. and all that
00:34:56
Tracey Halvorsen
Find the good restaurants you're going to go to, right? Yeah.
00:34:59
Kara
give My pants in like five years and they're still here. I was like, I refuse to get rid of all of my cute things. But like, sometimes it's a whole look, you know, it's not just a chest up thing. But I agree. And I i think you'd asked earlier like ways to get out of it. like if you are If you have the luxury of being able to travel, and I have friends that I've been meeting to see in London forever, and I don't have a plan, I just booked a ticket last week, and I was like, these are the dates I'm going, and I'll figure it out, and work my work life around it. And we are fortunate right to be able to work from anywhere, so it's nice to be able to pick up and go. But man, is it hard sometimes when you're just like, but my home's cozy, and all of my things are here, and I just want to use one brain cell every morning. but
00:35:41
Kara
forcing yourself to get out and I think you're like me too, we both like to solo travel.
00:35:45
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:35:46
Kara
So it's like you really got to like get that cortisol up and get through the airport and it's exhausting.
00:35:52
Tracey Halvorsen
It is. It is. Although, I mean, I just did a recent bout of train travel and that is so nice. Just so easy. Just get on the train and you can just get into a book or you can work or you can do whatever and beats the crap out of driving and um I definitely just find that my brain goes to different places when i'm when I've changed my physical space. And to me, it's just an easy hack to get things flowing in in ways that are always beneficial.
00:36:25
Kara
I agree. Long live the Acela. It's just, like that and everyone working on my team right now is along the Northeast corridor and I'm like, this is amazing. I don't have to fly anybody anymore. You're all right here on the Northeast regional line.
00:36:39
Tracey Halvorsen
Right. That is nice. That's nice. um So tell me about a recent, like, tell me about a recent, you don't have to name names, but like, whether it was a client or could have been internal, but where did you find that the way that you thought it was gonna go was just absolutely not gonna
Evolving Consulting Models
00:37:02
Tracey Halvorsen
work. And you had to really make a hard left or blow things up to come to a new place.
00:37:10
Kara
Yeah, I think it's a very small blow up explosion on this one. But we do a lot of one to one consulting for personal brands, right? So imagine we work with startups, right and have worked with some of the same startups from like 2016 2017 who have like now gotten acquired or are acquiring other companies are going through any kind of like capital event. And so we are then getting them into the social selling space because they're like what's next right or one of the leads that one of the clients we have was a lead that came through my personal linkedin two years ago and they really want to have like employee personal brand programs as part of their social selling initiative.
00:37:51
Kara
So we do this like one-to-one and like create content in the very traditional like social media way and do the ghost writing. And we have this client who's wanted to do this for such a long time and it's like herding cats internally and like it's eating up her budget. And so we were like, what if instead of us like doing all of the work, we turn this into like a curriculum and like actually built an ongoing workshop where whoever wants to participate can apply internally.
00:38:16
Kara
And then they come in and we onboard them and we guide them and teach them. And so it was a really interesting process because we just love this client. She's an absolute joy and one of our favorite people to work with.
00:38:28
Kara
So we're always like, how we just want to help her and see her do well. Right.
00:38:32
Tracey Halvorsen
Right.
00:38:32
Kara
but Being able to come up with a solution together felt like, I mean, it's a lot less work for us and really sets her up for success and creating something that she now can say, like, this is a program that I built in the organization with our
00:38:43
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah, and she can onboard new people and yeah.
00:38:46
Kara
Correct. So it's like our our concern was i was like, well, when our work stops, this program stop, right? So like, we want to make sure like, if our work stops, you're good and like have something and that just that feels better.
00:38:51
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:38:56
Kara
I think if you have a mentality of just like wanting the sales for the sales, which is that old agency model, right? Sales was disconnected from the people who are dealing with the clients.
00:39:02
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:39:05
Kara
um It's just a it's a different mindset of like, knowing the next thing is always going to come and going, how can we actually like help you? And now we have this really cool program we can sell to other clients. It's like, Not as much work for us.
00:39:17
Tracey Halvorsen
Well, that that is really interesting. um yeah I know you're a lot you know you've got your finger on the pulse around influencer marketing and and individual you know individual brand voice and all of that.
Empowering Employee Personal Brands
00:39:30
Tracey Halvorsen
um I was just talking with some clients and some colleagues specifically about higher ed. right and They're so stuck behind these institutional you know brands and horrible taglines and websites that are so massive and expensive that it's just like this this huge ah massive thing to even consider ever changing or innovating around.
00:39:56
Tracey Halvorsen
But the reality is that most of their prospective audiences, right? Like most prospective students aren't looking at any of that stuff. They're not going there. They're looking for those brand ambassadors, for lack of a better word, right? Or the influencers like my niece.
00:40:14
Tracey Halvorsen
Literally, her the biggest piece of marketing for UVA, in her mind, the most successful piece, was some video, some YouTube video that some student made about like how many cappuccinos she stopped and got in during the course of one day at UVA. And my niece loved that. And she's like, I can see myself. like I can belong to that. That is something that I'm curious about that gave me a sense of the vibe of the place, the authentic,
00:40:44
Tracey Halvorsen
story of the place through the eyes of you know what makes a place a place, which is the people who are there. um How do you think that big brands are starting to shift to embrace this very real and potent way of of reaching people?
00:41:02
Kara
i What we're seeing is a lot more brands investing in not only their founder and executive leadership having personal brands, which is a lot of the work we're doing these days, but also that of their employees. So we have several clients right now that we are doing employee-wide internal personal brand programs that they can start to leverage their expertise and ah the the function behind it is anything from we want to build a lead pipeline, right? There are ah SDRs and we want them to be more prominent and
00:41:35
Kara
Another one could be we want to like better show our expanded capabilities after all of these acquisitions. And so we want the experts within our team to be able to talk about that. We also have them saying we want to build cultural programs and this makes people feel like they're invested in as individuals. I think it was BlackRock, don't quote me, but I think it was BlackRock who said that they were investing in an 84,000 person employee brand program because that's how many employees they have.
00:42:02
Kara
And they did it for anybody who wanted to participate. I think historically leaders of these organizations have wanted to control employees in any way possible. I don't want you to leave.
00:42:13
Kara
I don't want you talking about your salary with anyone else. Like, right. Like just kind of in your little lane.
00:42:16
Tracey Halvorsen
Right.
00:42:18
Kara
And I think the really smart strategic leaders know that having personal brands for your employees is going to help your entire organization. And if they leave, it's okay, right? Like your business is not going to fail because two employees who built pipeline on their LinkedIn left.
00:42:28
Tracey Halvorsen
Right.
00:42:33
Kara
And it's, it's the, the need to take care of people internally is more important than ever because people are talking and strategic leaders put people first and invest in them and help them to elevate their personal brand.
00:42:33
Tracey Halvorsen
Right.
00:42:47
Kara
And then. Obviously a symptom of that is the overall corporate brand rises as well.
00:42:52
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah, it's um I was talking to someone recently about the fact that the Ravens Baltimore Ravens have a seamstress. And this and this role is really fascinating, right? Because apparently, like um she was she was telling my friend that um Lamar has a lot of problems in the cold weather, keeping his hands warm. And so they've been trying to innovate all these different things to put into his his pockets in the front of his jersey, went from
Hidden Roles Within Companies
00:43:27
Tracey Halvorsen
hand warmers to gloves that he can slide his fingers into to
00:43:31
Tracey Halvorsen
you know combinations. and And I was thinking, I never even would have thought that a football team would have a seamstress, let alone like how much is hanging on that expert's you know ability to be creative and innovate and know their team and know these players. And you know you it's like, wow, the you know the Super Bowl could hang on the talents of a seamstress.
00:43:58
Kara
Hmm.
00:43:58
Tracey Halvorsen
That's a really fascinating story. And I think that's you know that is about surfacing these very unique roles of these experts that are hidden away within every single company or organization or institution that are so fascinating. And yet we just bury it under this you know just bland, homogenized, like marketing speak.
00:44:26
Tracey Halvorsen
you know
00:44:27
Kara
Right. And I think there's this wonderful book called cognitive surplus that I recommend, it's a little older, but they talk about, you know, after the Industrial Revolution, and things started to get, you know, machines came into play, their create there was this cognitive surplus, right?
Media's Cyclical Evolution
00:44:41
Kara
Because people just had more time. And then then came the advent and the rise of television, and right to fill that time. And it also solved this, like, really big issue of loneliness, right? And a lot of times, like,
00:44:53
Kara
so many people will rewatch The Office or you know Breaking Bad or whatever, like kind of background noise TV show, not because it's entertaining or they're learning something new, but because it removes this like layer of loneliness, right? Because you start to feel connected with characters. Then of course all of this stuff happens with social media and TV kind of like goes down. Now we're seeing the rise of that need for TV more, right? With the creator economy, people are doing more episodic content, right? Or like, in ah how many cappuccinos did I have a day? Like wanting to have that connection with a person in the video, like that hasn't left. So there's a girl, her name's Reagan. I forget her last name. If you haven't seen her on Instagram, like two, three weeks ago, she launched her Instagram account. Last I looked at had 230,000 followers on it. And her whole thing is day one of me rebuilding my life after a horrible breakup and like
00:45:44
Kara
I watched the first one and I'm like, I got to know how this goes, right? So we're starting to see these like series come back, whether it's like professional, like a day in the life of people at work or something as you know silly as a big breakup, but I had to move back with my parents at 27.
00:45:59
Kara
So um I think it's really interesting just the psychology around like how media changes, but also starts to repeat itself because it's so scattered now.
00:46:08
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:46:08
Kara
And I'm sure you've seen like on Instagram, we'll see somebody like day one of me redoing my bathroom and like follow for part two. And now you have to kind of follow along. Like we like that. It gives us something to look forward to. It's the same reason I like reading trilogies.
00:46:19
Kara
Cause I'll finish a book and I miss the characters. Like they were my friends, right? And I'm like, now I have another one to go. back to. It's it's ah some sort of like connection that we feel with this type of content.
00:46:30
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah. And it's gotten so chunked up and so fragmented that I do set, you know, there is this, this desire for the longer form story, the longer, the more invested relationship.
00:46:44
Tracey Halvorsen
um
00:46:45
Kara
I'm not buying this whole idea that our our attention spans are shorter. That's bullshit and i there's no research to support it. We love long content if it's good.
00:46:54
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah. If it's good and and if we know how to read, if it's a book, I do worry about the reading, but
00:47:02
Kara
Did you, did you watch the whole Risa Tisa on TikTok when that was trending? I listened to it like a podcast. It was, it ended up in like 87 different episodes. I think she did. And I like, I feel like everyone for a week was just like a reason to use that what's happening with this. And it was so unscripted and raw, but it's, you want that continued story. Like you want something, I wonder too, there's gotta be studies coming out eventually about this. Like how we had that fragmented short form so long that our brains are just exhausted and like stop the code switching, give me one story to invest in for a while.
00:47:39
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah, and there's i mean there's so many channels. like Where do you tune in and how do you not get distracted and then like go chase the next shiny object? So I do think there is ah there's there's a challenge here.
00:47:54
Tracey Halvorsen
um
00:47:56
Tracey Halvorsen
And I don't know how much loyalty there is or how much, what it takes for someone to say, okay, I'm going to stay and commit to keep watching this. It's been interesting watching the kids and what they get into and what they want to watch, which is all YouTube, right? That's all they want to be on is, is watching YouTube and they want to watch the shorts. But every now and then I'll see them get really into a show with, you know, with episodes. And it's like,
00:48:24
Tracey Halvorsen
They don't do that if I don't keep them off of YouTube sometimes, though, too. you know So I'm like, how much of this do I need to to help um nurture? And if I don't, that it's like the sugar. you know I feel like the shorts and the the reels and all of that are just um sugar and empty calories. Whereas at least some of the longer narrative stuff I don't know.
00:48:49
Tracey Halvorsen
It's like your brain has to work a little harder. You've got to form attachments and, and have opinions and get invested.
00:48:55
Kara
Yeah, you get to go a little deeper, right?
00:48:57
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:48:59
Kara
But there is a that mediocrity, there is a market for the
00:48:59
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
Escapism in Content
00:49:02
Kara
sugar, right?
00:49:02
Kara
And we all have it, you know, it's like sometimes you just want the junky thing, because you've been thinking a lot that day, and you want to, you know, have the ability to just sort of autopilot your brain. And I do think there's a role for it.
00:49:13
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:49:13
Kara
her And sometimes, you know, I get a little spirally in my head, and I need that distraction of like, you know, there's a book or, you know, just crusty reality TV show just to get my mind off of whatever's happening.
00:49:27
Tracey Halvorsen
Absolutely. That escapism is is valuable, too. I know that um my mom's boyfriend turned me on to the guy, Rockstar, who does all the voiceovers for the mostly dogs, but um some other animals as well.
00:49:43
Kara
I don't know this one.
00:49:45
Tracey Halvorsen
It's like ah it's Rockstar, but X is in place of the um vowels. and What's great? Well, first of all, he's just brilliant at his voiceovers and the way he uses like if he's doing a voice for a dog and he'll be like, hey, what's going on?
00:50:03
Tracey Halvorsen
But then the dog runs, so he'll move his voice, you know, so it sounds further away. And so just really good matchup of like his spatial understanding of of volume. um But anyway, they're hysterical and just feel so good to laugh at dumb stuff sometimes, especially when everything is so heavy and like
00:50:19
Kara
Mmhmm. Mmhmm.
00:50:25
Tracey Halvorsen
mind warping between you know what is reality and what's happening to our planet and do we even know what what this is?
00:50:34
Kara
It's all made up. It's all a simulation. None of this is all as a shit's made up.
00:50:36
Tracey Halvorsen
Simulation, yeah.
00:50:40
Kara
I'm just showing up and pretending like my little jobby job matters every morning.
00:50:46
Tracey Halvorsen
Like the cat just typing away on the on the computer.
00:50:48
Kara
hello andt I have those moments where I tell my partner, I'm like, we all just like wake up in the morning and we like eat things and we get in our little car boxes and go places and no one's questioning any of this stuff.
00:50:59
Kara
I'm like, what are we all doing this?
00:50:59
Tracey Halvorsen
Right? Right? Yeah. No, I mean, um I'll throw this in there for anybody who listens because I just share this with everyone right now. um The recent thing to absolutely blow my mind was a podcast called The Telepathy Tapes.
00:51:15
Kara
Mm.
00:51:16
Tracey Halvorsen
which is all about how they are, this this woman and her crew are bringing to light something that's been long known and long documented, but not talked about like lose your license to teach or practice or be a scientist. If you even bring it up that nonverbal or mostly nonverbal autistic kids have telepathic powers.
00:51:44
Tracey Halvorsen
unquestionable, proven, documented. And it the rabbit hole that she goes down on this podcast is fantastic and beautiful and amazing. And and yeah, at the end of it, you're like, oh yeah, we we know very little of what is actually here.
00:52:03
Kara
And that's what I need to listen to on my walk.
00:52:06
Tracey Halvorsen
Yes, give it a listen. Give it a listen, and then we'll do a whole podcast about the podcast. We'll talk about it. We'll get meta.
00:52:17
Tracey Halvorsen
Oh, man. Well, listen, thank you for um thanks for joining me and talking about everything, whatever came up. And I wish you much success on whatever 2025's motto is going to be. What? 2024, why do more? What's 2025?
00:52:33
Kara
I think we're thinking about it's the year of the career. So I think it's like last year was about stripping oil the bullshit and now it's about stepping into that power and having it be very easy and accepting what comes in.
00:52:46
Tracey Halvorsen
Well, I love everything that you're doing about the individual you know and the voice and the empowering these individual brands within the big brands. It just seems like that's so exciting and necessary and um such a fertile place to be and work. So I wish you much success in in that and all of your ventures. And um I'm sure we'll talk again soon, but Thank you for being here and for sharing.
00:53:17
Kara
A pleasure. Thank you for having me on.