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A Redbird review with JD Hafron and Daniel Shoptaw
96 Plays1 year ago
Discussing the Cardinals year moves and future
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Show
00:00:00
Speaker
Well, hello there. I'm glad you stopped by today to my little spot up here on the bleachers. I got a show lined up for you. Got two very good guests and we're going to sit down and talk a little bit about Cardinal baseball. So grab your favorite tall, cold one or a can and a koozie. Come on up, sit down. We'll talk some sports. You got to get it done. This is gateway city sports. The rumors are true.
00:00:32
Speaker
This is Talking Sports on the Bleachers with John Glenn. A confident young man. A superb athlete. A look at the sports issues of the day.
Rapid-Fire Sports Commentary
00:00:42
Speaker
Grab a seat, pop a cold one, and let's talk some sports. See, that sounds kind of interesting. Gentlemen, start your engines!
00:01:07
Speaker
Grown on the shotgun, here's a snap. Romo looking, dumps it off, breaks that. Interceptions! Interceptions are goal-lined by the Woodson! And there is your Gallagher! Rule for the widespread stance. Arms out over the place. Bexford from the threat. The one-time hit. A play, and there it goes! Left field! 25!
Introduction of Guests
00:01:55
Speaker
Playoffs? Don't talk about it. Playoffs? You kidding me? Playoffs? Are you crying? There's no crying! There's no crying in baseball! You don't understand my class.
00:02:18
Speaker
I could have been a contender. I could have been somebody. Holy cow! Hey, Dad?
00:02:51
Speaker
You want to have a catch? I'd like that. I want to thank you for tuning in today because I have two guys with me that have been here before and never together. Today we solved that. I have to say I'm a big fan of both their shows.
00:03:12
Speaker
I want to start by saying though that talking sports on the bleachers is a proud member of Gateway City Sports and at Gateway City Sports you can find articles and podcasts on most sports in and around the St. Louis area. Check it out at GatewayCitySports.com
00:03:26
Speaker
And this segment of the show is brought to you by Fifth Street Motors. Check out the stress-free car buying at Fifth Street Motors located at 2044 Rose Lane in Pacific, Missouri. Find a deal that fits your budget. Call Brandon or Don. 573-259-1306. Again, 573-259-1306. Tell them Don Clinton talking sports on the bleachers sent you.
00:03:49
Speaker
So now let's get to my guest tonight first from the locked on network host of locked on Cardinals. It's J.D. Haffron. Welcome back, J.D. McDonald. How are you today, sir? I am very well, sir. Thank you very much for asking. The next guest is the host of Meet Me At The Mutual. You know him as Daniel Shoptaw. Welcome back to the Joe, Daniel. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Oh, I'm glad to have you guys here.
Cardinal Baseball Season Analysis
00:04:17
Speaker
You know, I guess the first question is going to be, though, is has it been long enough where we can rationally talk about the Cardinals without getting upset?
00:04:28
Speaker
I honestly, I stopped getting upset around June when I knew that that's about when I go, you know what? The season is toast. And now we got to look at how we can rebuild things or retool things, whatever word they wanted to use to fix everything that went wrong this past season. So I stopped getting angry a long time ago. What about that game when the Giants hit the home run and send it to X-ray? That's when I go, I'm done. They're out.
00:04:56
Speaker
Yeah, I think we've had time to get through all the stages of grief by now and on to acceptance. I mean, yeah, there's nothing else to do. We have, like I said, we've had a long time to just kind of come to terms with that as if you hadn't by the time the trading deadline came around that everybody was shipped out. And I mean, I don't know what to tell you. So yeah, I think I think we can kind of look back without any problems.
00:05:21
Speaker
Alright sounds good. Well, I guess the obvious place to start is Spring training. I mean we came into the season. We knew they didn't do much in the offseason We knew pitching was going to be an issue but maybe we bought an eye or at least I did maybe bought into some false security when Woodford and Matt's had some good outings in the spring there was good reports on on Michaelist and Wainwright and
00:05:48
Speaker
You know, I was kind of feeling a little good, uh, saw Walker at the plate. You know, I thought we were going to have a good thing coming out of spring training and then reality hit. Uh, what was it like for you guys? Did you have the same feelings in spring training or do you have a little different idea? Well, I think, uh, I mean, when you win seven, what 17 to 26 and spring training and better than anybody else at doing that.
00:06:12
Speaker
with a lot of players gone to the World Baseball Classic and you saw a lot of really good things. I don't think it was too surprising. You know, I do various things on Twitter with the predictions and stuff like that. And I think we had 70, 80 people or so that were picking card, you know, everybody picks cardinals first, maybe one person picked them second. Everybody's picking them in the, you know,
00:06:36
Speaker
85 to 90 wins, you know, when there's some, some more, not very many left. So, and you look at that and the, as a pitching stack of his average, which I think everybody said, okay, they're not going to be great, but yeah, two or three of these guys are going to be good. Two or three of them are going to stumble. You get average, you get this lineup, you should be fine. And you didn't get average and you got a lineup that had some problems at the key moments, uh, getting some games one. Yeah. What was your take JD?
Impact of World Baseball Classic
00:07:06
Speaker
I mean, most people were spoon feeding the NL Central to us. They were just like, here, you guys can have it. And you guys are going to end up taking this division. Maybe Milwaukee sneaks up on you and gives you a run for your money. But everybody just kind of handed it over to them.
00:07:23
Speaker
I don't want to use the world baseball classic as an excuse, but it was, you know, it was odd that you didn't really have a lot of your core players performing. And yeah, you won the spring training title. Yay. But at the same time, a lot of those guys weren't going to be on this roster anyway. You know, you, you were excited about what you saw from Britta Donovan, who, you know, was, you know, ripping home runs in spring training. And, uh, but as far as pitching and stuff goes, I mean, you didn't,
00:07:51
Speaker
There wasn't much to be excited. I mean, we were getting excited about Andrew Suarez starts and stuff like that. And it was just it was a bizarre time that we were getting excited about guys like, oh, my gosh, look at all the depth that they're going to have this year. And we didn't get to see the guys that were going to actually be on the field. So.
00:08:09
Speaker
Of course you like winning. That's great. But I want, you know, when, until I see the guys that are going to be the core of my team playing together, I wasn't all that excited about what happened in spring training. But at the same point, I didn't think they were going to be this bad either. Like I thought they were easily a wildcard team
Jordan Walker's Development
00:08:25
Speaker
this year. So, uh, the way they went down so quickly was very shocking to me. Yeah. And you mentioned the world baseball classic. Now I'm not trying to use that as an excuse for the season because definitely after a month you've get, you should be getting back into things.
00:08:39
Speaker
But do you think that maybe hurt us a little bit in April and led to that bad start? Or, I mean, cause we had 19 players in the cloud. We had Newt Barr and Edmund, O'Neill, Goldie, not NATO, Wainwright, Michaelis, Gallegos. I mean, yeah. Did that set us back initially?
00:09:06
Speaker
I think maybe it had a little something to do with that. Again, if when you're not playing with the guys that you're supposed to be playing with and you're off doing other things with different players, like there is something about a clubhouse that is important, you know, chemistry.
00:09:21
Speaker
Of course, all of those guys were just with each other last year. So I don't think it should have been that big of a deal. But at the same time, not going through the normalcy of what a spring training would normally be like, maybe having to rev things up a little bit earlier than they are used to. That was something that maybe Michael has had issues with. I don't want to give him an excuse. I mean, he just got hit a lot. That was his problem. But the Wainwright injury didn't help any.
00:09:49
Speaker
But again, I don't want to use it as an excuse. But when you break out of, you know, a routine that you're used to, I think I think even professional athletes, it's going to change things a little bit for them. And I know we were all hoping that maybe it actually would get them off to a quicker start because maybe they were all at where they would be, say, when May starts instead of coming out of spring, training and cold. And that apparently was not the case.
00:10:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think it was a factor I would you know how much of a factor is obviously up to for debate but you know maybe the biggest thing was that Wilson Contreras didn't go to the WBC but the pictures that he was supposed to work with it and so we didn't really do him a lot to.
00:10:33
Speaker
to really kind of mesh with that and it takes a little bit of time and the Cardinals you know what 12 and 24 at the end of April you know that's eight games under or 12 games under they only went eight games under the rest away so you don't dig that hole in April this season probably looks a little bit different I mean I don't know that that's going to get you a title or anything like that but maybe we're talking about a 500 team or something of that nature so it is something
00:10:59
Speaker
Yeah. How, how much is really hard to know. Right. All right. Um, should Walker been brought up at the beginning of the season? I know JD, you've mentioned a few times in your program. Um, or should they have waited until maybe after own, you know, when O'Neill went down, then, you know, leave him down there and see what happens with the outfielders. It was cause when we, when they broke camp, they broke camp with what five outfielders six. I think yep. As was on the team.
00:11:27
Speaker
I don't know. To me, if you're going to break this break with that many outfielders, somebody really should have stayed behind. And I think maybe at that point, maybe it was should have been.
00:11:36
Speaker
I think that there's an argument, and there was an argument for Walker to stay. I know everybody got really excited about his strong spring, but there were a lot of reasons for him to go on to AAA. And I think if the Cardinals saw what they saw a month later when they did send him to AAA, then they should have gone ahead and done that. Now, I think sometimes that maybe they got a little swept up in the hype as well. And it's also possible if the Cardinals
00:12:05
Speaker
have a 500 April, he doesn't get sit down, right? But it turned out to be a good thing for him. He came back and played better, but I, you know, hindsight, 2020, sure. I think that's probably the best of let him start in Memphis. I thought it was a huge mistake. I said it from the very beginning. I was like, well, if you're going to get the idea in my mind was if you were going to keep them up, you had to play them every day. There's no point in letting this future cornerstone of your franchise to come up and then sit on the bench. Well,
00:12:35
Speaker
They did play him because he had his little hit streak going, but he had no idea how to play the outfield. It was completely clueless and didn't really figure much out until very later on in the season. And part of the problem when you have a pitching staff that is a pitch to contact team, when they hit the ball, you got to have the guys out there that can go get it and do the right things and take the right routes. And we all know that.
00:13:00
Speaker
jordan walker was ready yet he was ready to be an outfielder at the major league level some say he may not be yet like he's still working on things and i like the progress obviously he's got the cannon for the arm but i just i just didn't understand it when you already had four legit dudes that were going to be playing time there were already starters
00:13:19
Speaker
You know, you're talking about Alec Burleson being on the team, too. You had him pegged ahead of Jordan Walker going into the season you had to have, you know? And to just keep him up on the roster, I just thought it was a bad idea. I didn't like it. I didn't think it made a lot of sense. And you can't tell me that those first few weeks that he was up on the major league roster, that that's when they noticed all of a sudden he needed to work on a launch angle. You can't tell me that you hadn't seen that already
00:13:48
Speaker
in his time down at AA or in spring training. And I think exactly what you said, whereas this is exciting. We should, we should let him be there on opening day so everybody can cheer him on and it's really, really cool story. But was it in the best interest for Jordan Walker and the team? I don't think so. Yeah. Well, and you made, it's funny you mentioned the launch angle thing because I remember an interview and I was looking for it earlier and I couldn't find it.
00:14:14
Speaker
Uh, but I remember an interview he did after he got back and, um, they said, you know, well, you know, what did you learn when you were down? And, and he said, quite frankly, that, you know, what they were trying to have him do for lunch angle didn't work for him. So he went back to his way and just concentrated, concentrated on contact. And he said, I figured I'd let the chips fall where they may. Well, it worked for him, you know,
00:14:39
Speaker
Part of me is wondering, is there a problem we need to worry about here if the kids at 19, 20, 21 years old are making their own decisions about hitting that are working better than what the instructors are telling them?
00:14:53
Speaker
I mean, it's bizarre if he's saying, nope, not going to do it and I'm just going to do what I do because obviously I was really good doing it that way. That was one thing that I thought was strange was like, he's been pretty good. Why are we changing things? What was it that was such a problem here? We all know that he wasn't, it's not like he's a 40 home run guy so far coming up through the system. He could turn into that for sure. But at the size 20 when he was, when they were talking about this, like he's just a kid.
00:15:20
Speaker
I was like should we just be working on him hitting the ball hard and stuff like I thought he was doing quite well at that they like that and they ship them down and it was just a bizarre situation and. I think really what it was like you saw a guy who's super talented.
00:15:36
Speaker
and had to get used to facing Major League pitching when he'd only reached AA and had been out of high school for two years. Like, it's going to take some adjustments. Like, even the best of the best, who are older than Jordan Walker, takes them a little time to get used to Major League hitting. Like, they didn't send Mason Wynn back down and go, work on your launch angle, kid. No, you know, you got to let them work through this and they'll figure it out because they're that talented.
00:16:00
Speaker
And whether or not that's true, that he just said, no, I'm not doing what you guys are telling me. I don't know. I remember the interview that you're talking about. He was in the dugout, and they mentioned it to him. And he kind of said, well, I just kind of went back to things that I was already pretty good at. So whether or not he just blew him off, I find that a little hard to believe. I'm sure he worked on some things. And they were like, OK, we're happy with that.
00:16:26
Speaker
When they realized that he needed to be in the lineup every day, obviously he was going to get better because, you know, he's a top talent. Some had him as rated as the best hitting prospect in baseball this year. Of course he's going to figure it out eventually. He's that good.
00:16:40
Speaker
How about you, Danny? Any thought on that? Well, yeah. And I think that I think to some degree, what at least what I remember Walker's kind of implying there was he started going up to the, to the plate with too much in his head and he tried to really kind of clear it out, which, you know, still taking the instruction that he had. Um, but yeah, I think that, you know, to some degree, yeah, you would like to have seen him just play through it. But again, we've seen the Cardinals do that quite often with their young players is in the back to Memphis after a while.
00:17:10
Speaker
you know, you know, we'll have to see how Mason Wynn does. I mean, obviously, he was playing in a different type of situation with no, no, no expectations. And we'll see if he starts the year next year, it's at short stopper and go forward. But that has been the case what they've done. And at least in this situation, it seems to have worked because the you know, the underlying numbers were better. And part of it is like, which I do say, he's just figuring it out and seeing more of it. But there may have been a few tweaks that they made it as well.
00:17:38
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, if you look at the most recent case, would be Nolan Gorman last year, you know, came up, had the little slump struggle, sent back down, came back up, you know, and then this year, it's like the light switch turned on. I mean, till he got hurt at first, he was, he was lights out. I mean, that was all there was to it. So maybe Walker will do the same thing. You never know.
Tyler O'Neill Incident and Team Dynamics
00:18:05
Speaker
The Tyler O'Neill incident. Did we make too much of that? I mean, cause people are still bringing it up, uh, mostly as a condemnation of, of, uh, Marmal, but, um, was that, was that a big to do about nothing or was there some actual fire in that smoke? I think it's mainly, it was about nothing. I mean, there was something there and it sounded like to me from what we've seen, we've heard from from the past. It was something that.
00:18:30
Speaker
maybe the clubhouse should have taken care of and they weren't and Marmal then had to step in. There is some some look at that way. I do think that maybe it could have been addressed a little bit differently but you know it was it's a situation where everything was going wrong and then that comes up and everybody kind of latched onto that. If they had won the next two games I think everybody ignores it but they were in the middle of a losing streak in a terrible month
00:18:55
Speaker
And yeah, I think it's an easy thing to kind of respond to, much like the Wilson-Contreras stuff, which probably had a little bit more impact than that incident.
00:19:07
Speaker
Yeah, I would say I just didn't like the way they communicated in that situation. I don't need Ali calling out Tyler O'Neill there in that situation that he should have been running harder. He knows that. Or if he was trying to save his legs, if that's what was going on, I feel like they would have known that, that he was going to not go 100% all the time because of the past injuries.
00:19:33
Speaker
That was something that would have been agreed upon that if that was the case, I don't see why Ali would have called him out in the post game and mentioned something about it. But I just think it was handled badly on Ali's part. That's something where you keep it in the clubhouse and all you had to do was say.
00:19:49
Speaker
I'll have a conversation with Tyler about it, and we'll get it worked out. We know what we expect at this level, and we'll get it figured out. And it would have been dead. It would have been dead right there. But the way he went about it, and then Tyler finding out about what Ali had just said at his locker, and he goes, oh, that's very interesting. Immediately, you're like, uh-oh. We've got an issue here, because clearly,
00:20:15
Speaker
There didn't need to, there just needed to be an AB conversation. It shouldn't have gone through the media to get to Tyler or vice versa about how we felt about it. I just think it was handled poorly. And, you know, you didn't really see any situations like that later on. But like Daniel said, the Wilson-Gatreras shenanigans was way bigger than what this Tyler O'Neill situation should have been.
00:20:36
Speaker
Do you think the O'Neill situation would have been different had it come closer to the end of the year? Because we saw O'Neill sit out a lot in that second half, right? It seemed like every couple of days he was out for a back or he didn't feel like he'd go. Even when the situation looked like he was going to be in the lineup, he scratched and stuff like that. If we had the season like that and then
00:20:58
Speaker
You know, you have an instant like that. Do you think people are more likely to been on, on board with like, yeah, somebody needed to say something to him about playing harder or is it would have been the same thing? Good question. Uh, you know, I don't know the answer to that, but I think, you know, and what we've seen with Tyler and especially last year, last year. Yeah. Um, you know, his running into walls. I mean, I think nobody's ever questioned the guy's hustle.
00:21:28
Speaker
uh really I mean so it was kind of a strange comment to me and I'm like you guys I think it could have handled been handled better handled in-house handled internally not published and or not put in front of reporters and whatnot but um you know I guess I'm just surprised if it had the legs it did and in some respects still has a little bit of leg going to it so you guys mentioned Wilson Contreras both of you did not that was gonna be my next one
00:21:55
Speaker
Um, you know, closely after the O'Neill thing, now we got Contreras involved in a drum with, with management and coaching staff. I mean, how did functional was that team in May, in April and May when all this went down? I mean, it was very confusing. It was a confusing time. The, the Cardinals
Wilson Contreras’s Role and Performance
00:22:17
Speaker
are losing. They're not winning games and, uh,
00:22:20
Speaker
and where the report started, where like who slipped it, where it was like, yeah, we're gonna start putting them in left field. I don't know where that actually came from. Like all of a sudden the media picked up on it and ran with it. I don't know who slipped that information, but I mean, that right there, you're just like, what are we doing? Like what is this front office? And what does Ali think? What are we doing here? Like why would we be signing a catcher?
00:22:47
Speaker
to the largest free agent contract you've ever signed anybody to and then stick them into left field after a month. Like what went wrong here? As Daniel mentioned earlier, Laurie, he was like, yeah, they, you know, he even stayed behind to learn the cardinal way of doing things to handle the pitching staff, even though some of the pitchers weren't there, but still the idea of
00:23:07
Speaker
You're going to be the person that calls the game and this is what you need to do and how you need to prepare for each game. And then all of a sudden in May, he has no idea what he's doing. He's calling pitches from pitchers reportedly that they don't even throw. You're going to stick them into left field now when you already have five outfits. What are we doing?
00:23:27
Speaker
weirdest situation. Like, that's the kind of stuff you heard from other franchises. Like, the Cardinals don't have that kind of drama go on. And to see it happening in front of us, like, I was in disbelief. I was like, who, how are we running the show here? This is a disaster.
00:23:47
Speaker
Well, I was gonna say, I don't think I remember which media person it was. It may have been Jeff Jones, but around that time, it really kind of indicated that the Cardinals didn't know what to do when they were losing. They were kind of flailing around trying to figure out some way to write the ship. And even if it tossed about, you know, making as drastic changes as possible. Yeah, that just, it didn't make a lot of sense. I mean, if you've,
00:24:14
Speaker
On one hand, if you've made, if you think you've made a mistake, you shouldn't just keep making the same mistake, but it's only been a month. You're right. And there, you know, it wasn't his fault for that. Now I will say it allowed Wilson Contreras to be embraced by Cardinal fans a lot faster than I think you would have been otherwise coming from the Cubs organization. Uh, everybody rallied around well, Contreras and, and it, you know, we'll see how this goes forward. You know, they talked about having a meeting with him this off season about his defense.
00:24:42
Speaker
We'll see how, you know, if this rears its head again in the future. Well, that's something else I want to bring up real quick, Donald, was that. Sure. Did they not know what they were getting? Wilson Contreras has been in Chicago for years and you've been playing against him. You know what kind of catcher he is. We all knew he wasn't a great defensive catcher. We all knew he wasn't great at calling games. He's got a great arm behind the plate. But outside of that,
00:25:10
Speaker
Hasn't been a great catcher. He's an offensive weapon who happens to play the position of catcher. If that's not what you were looking for and you needed somebody to be the next year out of your Molina and just run the show, why were you signing this guy in the first place? Because he's never done that. That has never been a Wilson Contreras trait behind the plate. Everybody knows that.
00:25:33
Speaker
And we knew it when we signed him, like all of us. And I'm sure Daniel, Donald, you knew too. They were like, well, obviously the defense is going to take a hit behind home plate because that's not who Wilson Contreras is. But now we're going to be in the upper echelon with offense at the catcher position. And that's why you signed him. And it ended up being exactly what you paid him for. He never changed who he was. He delivered exactly what he was supposed to do.
00:25:59
Speaker
But that's a huge mistake on the Cardinals part. If they expected him to become this almighty catcher behind the plate and do things that Yachty or Molina did, then that is real. That's on them. That's just a bonehead decision on their part.
Mid-Season Trades and Outcomes
00:26:13
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I said when I was a little harsh when it traded or the signing initially went down, I I didn't like it from day one because I went and I kept going back to most comment before the winter meetings.
00:26:29
Speaker
We're going after the best all-around catcher we can find Now clearly to me that was Sean Murphy. He was up for grabs Yeah, would we have had to part with a couple of place players? Maybe some people didn't want to part with Yeah, possibly but I think we had enough in the in the system and we could have overloaded them with picks but with prospects and said here you take these guys and we'll take him I mean because that's ultimately what the internet beginning from
00:26:58
Speaker
Los Angeles and Milwaukee, or not Atlanta and Milwaukee. Yeah. Um, so I didn't like that to start with, but then to sit there and like you said, JD, they knew they've played against this guy. They knew what he was. They've, they've seen all the reports and to sit there and think that this guy can be an all around catcher when he's never demonstrated that in his career. Like you said, I think it was just a big mistake and now they're paying for
00:27:29
Speaker
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00:30:52
Speaker
Uh, we've talked early as part about the early part about the season and how I know it was different for a lot of fans. But when it came to the, to the mid season point where we got posted a trade deadline, when did you guys think they were selling? I know earlier before the show, he said something about June JD. So why don't you go ahead and start.
00:31:14
Speaker
Yeah, I knew it when the San Francisco series at Busch Stadium went down. We'd gone down that road where they beat them in San Francisco on the walk off on Helsley. And then you had the Gallegos giving up the shot at Busch Stadium. And I was like, I've seen enough, man.
00:31:31
Speaker
three months into this and nothing has changed. Why would anything change before we have to make decisions by the trade deadline? And that was really when I was like, all right, I'm done getting mad about it. I'm not going to get angry. Let's start focusing on what we need to do. What went wrong here and how do we move forward? And obviously trade deadline moves was the right call. Like I remember for a couple of weeks right before that, I guess they won a few games and people were like, maybe we should hang on to these guys. I'm like, you're an idiot.
00:32:01
Speaker
What are you kidding me? What do you think they're gonna make this amazing comeback? No, you got to get what you can for these guys because outside of Jordan Montgomery and Jordan Hicks, I wasn't interested in bringing any of these guys back anyway. So that's when I kind of realized that that's the path that they were on.
00:32:23
Speaker
I don't know if I'm getting ahead of myself here, but like, uh, I was pretty happy with the hall that they were able to receive considering all of these guys are in walk years. You know, they were all going to be free agents and have a chance to leave not only the Cardinals, but leave these teams that they got traded to. Right.
00:32:39
Speaker
Yeah, I think that yeah, it was early. It was, you know, you're looking at June and it really, the only question was, would they stop at the free agents? You know, would they go into a little bit deeper of, you know, are they moving a Tyler O'Neill? Are they moving, you know, somebody else like that autonomy? And are they packaging some stuff together to get
00:33:00
Speaker
A picture that would work this year and and they didn't do that and that's fine. I think that they did what they had to do and like I said, did very well and bringing people back. But yeah, I was looking there. There was that run in.
00:33:17
Speaker
like right after the all-star break where Milwaukee was struggling and the Cardinals won like three or four or something like that, which may have been their best friend of the year. And, um, they got within like seven games. I was like, I know they're not going to them for the front office is going to believe they're going to. And, and thankfully.
00:33:34
Speaker
The front office stuck to their guns. I think that there was nothing that we're going to nothing that Cardinals would have done that they would not have traded those guys. And, uh, you know, for that, even that right there is a change in what the front office has done in the past. Very true. Yeah. I think it was kind of like mid June for me, they were on that, uh, Fort, they were like 14, I think maybe 15 games out.
00:33:57
Speaker
And I'm like, okay, you know, I can see it coming. It's going to happen. Like you said, it was just no matter who they were going to trade. And I'm kind of like you, Dan, that they put that little five, six game run there right after the all-star break. And I'm like, okay, well, maybe we're back within nine games. And, you know, then again, reality reared its ugly head. And I'm like, okay, I was right the first time. So, but, but yeah, getting kind of going on that.
00:34:26
Speaker
What do you guys think of the halls we dig? I personally, I thought the Flaherty deal was the best deal, the best return we got. And I think the deal for Monty wasn't too bad. Not real crazy about the other two. I mean, I'm not seeing a value on those. I mean, there might be, but what do you guys think?
00:34:49
Speaker
I think, I mean, obviously, in hindsight, of course, at the time, it was interesting, but in hindsight, I don't think there's any doubt that Montgomery trip is the best trade when you get in a total Roby, who probably immediately jumps to being your top pitching prospect. And then you see Thomas Casey, who just lit up double A.
00:35:10
Speaker
you know, to get that return for Montgomery and Stratton, who I don't think has yet even pitched to the postseason, is incredible. The Flaherty move, they got good quantity. We've seen Drew Romm, obviously, and it looks like he still needs some work if he's going to be anything. The Zach Show Walter is probably going to be the most intriguing part of that, but he's, you know, three or four years away, probably. And then, you know, I mean, to get anything for Hicks,
00:35:36
Speaker
Um, and Paul DeYoung, uh, at all was pretty impressive just because of those, what those guys value probably was. Um, and I think they're, you know, we'll have to wait and see how those pan out. Okay. Yeah. I agree with you, Daniel. I think the Montgomery trade was actually the biggest one, uh, not to put you on the spot, Donald, but yeah, because what you're seeing out of Takoa Roby, like he was hurt right away and.
00:36:10
Speaker
pitching routine, like look pretty good at the end of the year. He's over in the Arizona fall league now. I saw his first appearance there look great. And then, you know, you mentioned Thomas to JC. I mean, he wins the MVP is up at AAA. And he's a guy that I brought it up on our podcast was like, if you see the arrival and the rise of Thomas to JC coming up, does it make a guy like it easier to trade a guy like Edmund or Donovan?
00:36:31
Speaker
But after we got healthy and got back into a normal
00:36:40
Speaker
this year to get pitching knowing that you've got a guy who's, you know, can do some similar things as far as playing infield positions. Does that make it easier on you to move one of those guys knowing that you've got somebody who at every level he's played has been able to hit. So definitely like that one. The Flaherty deal, I don't know what says our Prieto is going to be. Apparently he can hit, but
00:37:09
Speaker
I don't know he's another guy that's kind of in that mold of Donovan Donovan and Edmund as far as an infielder goes where he can play both positions up the middle probably some third base as well.
00:37:20
Speaker
Drew Rahm I wonder if his, his role will be a bullpen role, more than it will be a starting pitcher, you know, I'm curious if that's like where he starts. As far as helping the major league club if this is a spot obviously he wasn't ready yet to be in the rotation and that was okay, they knew that and I'm, I'm glad he got some work in and you saw some moments there too when he.
00:37:40
Speaker
pitched against Baltimore and Philly like he was outstanding against both those clubs, but clearly had some things to work on. And then you mentioned Joe Walter, yeah, 19 years old, got hurt right away when he came over. And so we didn't hear much from him. But people say he could be like, you know, kind of a hidden prospect there that it might be something someday. And with the Toronto trades, you know, trading relievers is a lot different than trading starting pitchers. So good morning.
00:38:06
Speaker
I wasn't expecting a huge haul in return for, for agent to be Jordan Hicks. You know, I really, you know, I'm glad that they were able to get somebody, some Robertsa was in the futures game. I mean, he's there for a reason. He's not some scrub. So I wasn't unhappy with any of the trades that ended up taking place. And like Daniel said, it was kind of nice just to get anything from Paul the young. I mean, who knew?
00:38:31
Speaker
They got lucky there that Toronto needed a shortstop all of a sudden because they were able to get at least something in return for him. Toronto, then San Francisco, and I don't know where he's playing now. My thing was on the deal with Monte, we gave up two players in him and Stratton to get what we got. So that's why I'm kind of saying, okay, plus I was not actually sold on Sagassi.
00:39:00
Speaker
or Segeci. I was not actually sold on him, you know, I've kind of, kind of adjusting my thinking now that I've seen what he's been doing, because his numbers really didn't, to me when I was looking at him, they didn't really jump on the page at me. I like the Showalter as far as
Future Prospects and Roster Strategy
00:39:20
Speaker
you know, that clarity deal. I think Showalter is the one in that deal that made that one come true to me because you got a kid like that who's showing that much promise at that age. You know, I think that's kind of a neat deal. And I think, I'm like, I think ROM's not going to be a rotation piece, but I think it'll be a really solid bullpen piece at some point down the road. So, you know, we'll see. Could we have gotten a little bit better?
00:39:51
Speaker
I don't know. Like you said, definitely not probably for Hicks or DeYoung. And I'm like you, Daniel. I was kind of surprised that O'Neill wasn't gone. Or... Well, he was hurt. Because he was hurt. Nobody wanted him there. We were like, what do I do with him? We traded Harrison Bader when he was hurt. So, you know.
00:40:11
Speaker
Yeah, but he was on his way back quickly like that. That was, we had no idea what Tyler O'Neill was going to show up again. And if he does, what made you think he was not going to get hurt again? To be fair, nobody expected Harrison Bay to be traded either. And thankfully he was because that got us Montgomery, which exists into the conversations we're having now. Exactly. So Donald, you didn't like Thomas the JC's numbers. You don't like MVP numbers. You hate those?
00:40:40
Speaker
it's not that i didn't like him i just didn't try i didn't trust i mean it's it's it's minor league numbers you know and i just didn't trust him uh you know we'll see uh because he's kind of growing on me he's you know he i wanted to kind of see what he would do uh he's growing on me and i think you're right on roby if roby shows up the way that he is projected which is again i wasn't 100 sure on but i've watched a couple pieces of clips from the uh ball league and
00:41:10
Speaker
He does have some pretty wicked stuff. I'll give the kid that and you know how quickly he moves through. He's in double now quickly. He moves through into triple able. See if he can move through quick enough, then yeah, I think then the Montgomery trade is probably the better of the bunch in that respect. The question is, can the Cardinals develop any of these young pitchers? Because they haven't shown that they can do that very well over the last few years. That's true too. That's true to me. He got all this talent. Now can they work with it or how are they going to work with it?
00:41:40
Speaker
We kind of checked in with a couple of guys. Were there any guys that really we should have gotten rid of other than the four we did or five we did?
00:41:51
Speaker
I don't know that there's anybody you should have gotten with it. We don't know what the deals were, right? And I'm assuming that if there was any sort of significant deal, the Cardinals would have gone with it. You know, I think that Tommy Edmund has the value of other places. It's difficult to try to target Tyler O'Neill or Dylan Carlson right now because their value is so low. And maybe that's an off season thing that you sell somebody on a potential there.
00:42:17
Speaker
But yeah, I don't, I think the Cardinals did what they had to do. And I don't think that anybody should have been too disappointed with what they did. I was kind of thinking I thought maybe they might try and unload some of the outfield, uh, planning for, uh, T Tyler's return, maybe, and maybe, uh, dumping like a Burleson, um, somebody like that at the deadline, uh, in a package deal for, for something.
00:42:44
Speaker
Um, he wouldn't have got you much, but you know, he, you could throw him in a package to maybe get a more of a veteran or MLB picture that you can count on for next year. Kizner I thought was another one. They might think about the way Herrera was tearing up, uh, the league down there and everybody was saying he's ready to come up. He's ready to come up. He's ready to come up. The only thing blocking him was Kizner.
00:43:07
Speaker
So I, you know, a couple of those I thought might, they might have done some shopping with, but like you said, we don't know what deals were asked and what deals were promised. And so it was just kind of hard to see. Um, and plus, you know, if there may, the other thing I thought was if they were making the commitment to contrast to the catcher, uh, and they knew her rarer or they're planning on her rare to be up next year. You know, my thought was why not try and unload kiss?
00:43:33
Speaker
But, you know, obviously they had better ideas or different ideas anyway.
00:43:39
Speaker
Yeah, I would just assume that the deals that like we know that the Cardinals value their players maybe a little more than other franchises do. And I wonder if just the deals they were like, yeah, this is kind of silly. I mean, you don't ever want to sell low. That's bad business. And some of those guys like you would be selling low on just to get rid of them. So why not hang on to them and see if their value increases
00:44:05
Speaker
in the off season. So I think that's more what they were shooting for. And they're like, like Daniel said, there was something that blew them away and it was really good. They wouldn't have pulled the trigger because they were ready to move on from anybody who was a free agent, a free agent to be for sure. And anybody that, you know, they were unhappy with. But again, like, you know, trying to unload somebody like, you know, Carlson or Tyler O'Neill, you can't do that when they're hurt. And there's no timetable if they're coming back.
00:44:31
Speaker
You know, that's that's what I think made the Bader situation last year a little bit different was Bader was just about back and the Yankees knew that the Cardinals knew that and they were able to make a good baseball trade because Bader did well for the Yankees in the offseason last year. Like he pretty much did what they needed out of him and included a little pop. And obviously Montgomery was fantastic in St. Louis. Looking back in this season, we've had a lot of
00:44:58
Speaker
Like you said, a lot of, uh, underwhelming performances and guys that maybe haven't lived up to what they hope we were hoping. Who impressed you so far this year? I think Brendan Donovan made the most, was most impactful. I mean, Nolan Gorman obviously did well as, although he had his streaks and some really, really rough months, but you know, I don't know that I expected Brendan Donovan to be.
00:45:21
Speaker
anything more than the stubby clap, you know, the bare bones kind of guy that might've had a good rookie year, but then, you know, the league various amount. And not only did they not, he came back with some power and has probably vaulted himself into a position where the Cardinals, you know, if they do trade him, they should get some significant value. And they probably won't trade him at all. So yeah, I think if you're looking at somebody that that's a prize, especially I would go a brand new anonymous.
00:45:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's hard to disagree with that. He was, I mean, for a guy that just a couple of years ago, we didn't even know who that guy was. Like, he wasn't like some top 30 prize. He wasn't anything special. And he just was one of those like, like Daniel said, like, you're like, maybe he's like a stubby clap kind of guy, a glue guy that just, you know, kind of fits a role.
Player Performance Highlights
00:46:06
Speaker
And now,
00:46:07
Speaker
You're talking about, I mean, do you keep him and trade guys like Gorman instead so you can get better pitching in return for him? That's where he's put himself. It was unfortunate that the elbow injury took him down because obviously he was having a fantastic year. And that was unfortunate. I would also say I want to give credit to Wilson Contreras. We know that the defensive stuff wasn't great, but to go through all of this stuff,
00:46:32
Speaker
He went through this year and still put up the numbers he did like at the end of the year.
00:46:38
Speaker
You know, you're talking a guy, you know, a three time all star behind the plate, obviously for offense. And even though he made the trade and then there was the rumors that he wasn't going to be a catcher anymore. And then he got benched and he got embarrassed by the team and they talked to all this stuff about him. And then he able to fight through. And like you said, he like the carnal nation, he galvanized, they all started to root for him. And he felt half of that.
00:47:04
Speaker
and we got villain Willie became a thing and it was great to finally have a bad guy on your team that upset other players like other teams you know like it's nice to have that guy it's good to have attitude there just like Molina was and I embraced him I thought considering what he went through and how bad things got there for a little bit to come through and be the hitter he was like his numbers were sick
00:47:30
Speaker
in the second half of the season. Like I'm talking hitting 330 and stuff. Like it was bonkers what he ended up doing. So I would like to give Wilson Contreras some credit for powering through being a standup guy. And how about the emotion after catching Wayne Wright's 200th? Like that's the stuff that we love as Cardinal fans. And I respect him for it. Oh yeah. And like I said, I may not have been a big on when they made the trade form.
00:47:56
Speaker
I won't say he's actually won me over, but I have come to respect him behind the plate, or at least in the lineup. I think he kind of got a raw deal with the whole flare up that they had.
00:48:09
Speaker
And for him to, like you say, work through that and still put up numbers, you got a tippy cap to him on that. I'm like you with, with Donovan, but I'm also going to say, even though I expected to see him improve, I was very pleased with the turnaround or the improvement in Gorman, especially on the defensive side of the ball.
00:48:33
Speaker
I knew he'd come around to hit. I mean, that was, I think, was a given. He was going to come around to hitting his power. You just can't find his power anymore. But the strides he made on defense, I think, you can't really overlook that. Yeah, he was much better at second base than I think a lot of us thought he was going to be, just because of the body type that he is. Oh, yeah.
00:48:55
Speaker
he's a third baseman playing second base like he does not look like any second baseman that we're used to at least and you know he's a tank out there so uh i i think he did a commendable job at second again learning a new position where he hasn't been playing second you know his whole career like he's been a third baseman so to switch over the last couple years and to do
00:49:19
Speaker
OK, at second base and not embarrass himself. I think that's great. And yeah, of course, the power elite level power, you know, this is 40 home run, 50 home run power type of guy that he's showing like his percentages of home runs per at bat or top five in the league. Like he's got that. I worry about the back issues. I don't like to see a young guy dealing with back issues every couple of weeks. I hope he's
00:49:46
Speaker
not the next Tyler O'Neill where he's got all of this talent, but he can't stay on the field because of injuries. So I worry a little bit about it and I hope they can figure that out. Whatever he needs to do to, I don't know whether it's happening because of his hitting or because of him playing second base, the way he's fielding. I have no idea what's flaring up those back problems, but I hope they can nip it in the bud for next season because it'd be nice to see him out there for 145, 150 games.
Offseason Strategies and Improvements
00:50:13
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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00:51:17
Speaker
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00:51:43
Speaker
OK, guys, in the final segment, I want to take a we've kind of looked at the season before. We've looked at what we have. So what's going to happen here as we're moving forward? And I want to start with the comment from Mo that this is somewhere in like July. He made this comment or maybe it's not with August after the trade deadline.
00:52:03
Speaker
uh realistically we know we have to add free starters this offseason we know we have to add depth we went into this season thinking we would have to have it have that covered it didn't work out that way having a repeat of that would not be in the best interest of the franchise so i think our approach is going to be very aggressive on the pitching side we'll see where it takes us uh we've heard this before
00:52:33
Speaker
I feel like this is another situation where Mo kind of sticks his foot in his mouth. Like, why are you giving us a number? Don't tell me you're going to go get three, because then if you don't, now we can all just tear you apart for it. Just like this past off season where it's, uh,
00:52:48
Speaker
payrolls going up. It's going up. Don't tell me that. And then have it go up a fraction. We thought you were legit going up to maybe $200 million. You were going to push the payroll up. And that didn't happen. And obviously, we all reacted the way we did.
00:53:07
Speaker
Liar, why did you say that? Don't tell me that, and then don't follow through with that. I think he's made a huge mistake by putting a number out there. He should have just left it. We're going to look at starting pitching. We're going to look at bullpen. We need help in both areas. And then that's it. You don't have to say anything more.
00:53:23
Speaker
See I'm more encouraged with the fact that he said a number because I feel like this organization when it goes out and says it's going to do something like he said they said payroll was going to grow up. They never did say it was going to go up by a lot and we assumed that because of what he said that and it is frustrating but it did go up.
00:53:40
Speaker
Um, they, they went into this office last year at this time. What are they saying? They're saying, we're going to go get a catcher. You know, they didn't, they didn't say, we need to look at the kitchen. We need to look at opportunities when they start talking about, we're going to look at opportunities to get better or things like that. That's too vague. That lets them off the hook. I think you're JD, you're right. I mean, when he says three starters, you know,
00:54:03
Speaker
He knows that they're going to be held accountable. So I better go get them. Exactly. Now we're going to argue whether he got the best quality starters or whatever. I don't think they're going to go out and get a whole bunch of middle rotation guys or lottery tickets or anything like that. But if they do, then yeah, he's going to be held accountable. But I think that when you hear that, and I think most importantly,
00:54:27
Speaker
this season was an embarrassment to this organization and to an ownership that, you know, wants to win. They want to win on their terms. I'll give you that, but I do feel like they, they know what Cardinal baseball means to everybody and they don't want that to happen again. So I think this off season is going to be a lot different than normal. Yeah. I mean, like I said, we've heard this before, but unlike you, Daniel, I think
00:54:54
Speaker
If I read that, you read into that statement all you want, but I think the one thing is when he says the thing about having a repeat of that would not be in the best interest of the franchise to me right there, he's meeting. I screwed up guys. And I, and it's on me to fix it. Whether he does it or not, it's going to be another story. But I think I'm like, I'm Daniel. I'm encouraged by that part of the statement. There's at least owning up to that. The fact that he screwed this up.
00:55:23
Speaker
He's the one who screwed the pooch now he's got to fix, you know, so I'm, I'm, I'm encouraged by, um, like the attitude that I'm hearing in, in these post season comments, uh, by Ollie as well, where he's like, look, the Cardinal nation should be upset. They should be angry. They should be calling for my head.
00:55:44
Speaker
And we're going to fix this because we're not doing this again. This is not going to happen again. And to know that Moe is admitted in his own way that like, yeah, you know, we thought we did something right and we were totally wrong. We need to adjust the way we go about the type of pitchers we're looking for, who we have on this team.
00:56:04
Speaker
I think they underestimated what the shift changes, how that was going to affect what, and I don't have the stats that say that, yeah, man, this is what it was. But clearly when you have guys that are not swing and miss type of guys, you expect, first off, you have to have your defense playing well, which it did not this year. That's not the pitcher's fault. But the other side of it is that, you know, where balls normally would have went into a shift or now finding the slim holes. I mean, how many times did we hear
00:56:32
Speaker
soft contact hits. I mean, that's a death this year. I don't know. It doesn't matter. They're still hits. You know, maybe those were outs in 2022, but this year they were finding holes and it would just snowball from there.
Team Dynamics and Salary Cap
00:56:46
Speaker
So I think they realize what they have to do. They know what kind of player they need, what kind of pitchers that they need for not only the starting rotation, but also the bullpen that we got to remember. That was a disaster, too. The amount of blown saves and just it was bad.
00:57:01
Speaker
They got to fix that as well. And the question is, is we don't know what their price limit is going to be. Like, how far are they willing to go to pull in somebody like Aaron Nola or a Sonny Gray or a Blake Snell? We've heard talk that they've done their due diligence on him, which, I mean, well, you should. You should be doing it on everybody.
00:57:26
Speaker
everybody I don't know why it's news that should why wouldn't you like get what France is not going we should look into Blake Snell he might be onto something out there. Yeah, but that's the only thing we don't know is we don't know what they're spending habits are going to be this offseason so
00:57:45
Speaker
Well, it's funny you should mention that JD because that does kind of lead me to a comment by Bill DeWitt III. I guess he just made this a day or two ago. Kind of hinting that the Cardinals plan to climb the payroll rankings. Now, what that actually means, who knows?
00:58:07
Speaker
Well, I don't think they have any choice, right? I mean, if you're going out and getting three starters, I mean, even, even when you're going out and getting, you know,
00:58:17
Speaker
middle of the road pitching is going to cost you more than what you're spending. I mean, they're going to have to go up now. I do think that they're, they plan to make that a significant jump. Um, but we'll see. I mean, you know, it also takes two people to tango, right? I mean, they can go out and make really good offers. We saw that number of years ago, right? David price was going to be a Cardinal. Um, they made a significant offer to him. And all of a sudden the last minutes about Red Sox come out over the top. And I mean,
00:58:43
Speaker
You know, you hope that they get ahead of that, that curve and they get at least some, but, uh, it is good to know that, you know, they're not just saying we're going to raise payroll. Like they didn't say much here. It's just kind of kind of vague. It's like, we're going to spend more than other teams. Then you have Ali's comment of, I want a clubhouse full of guys that has one thing under mind and it's not themselves. It's winning a championship. So you start by weeding those out.
00:59:11
Speaker
who's he talking about? Well, we can make guesses. That's all we can. But yeah, a couple of it. I mean, obviously, the person that a lot of people who's actually still on the team, a lot of people brought up was that like, Oh, that's Tyler O'Neill. It's gotta be Tyler O'Neill. He just doesn't seem to be the guy that
00:59:32
Speaker
is willing to go out there when he's hurt. And I don't know that. I don't know how hurt this guy is all the time. Obviously, it's enough that he's not on the field. But I think Jack Flaherty might have been one of those guys. I think Hennessy Cabrera was one of those guys. Clearly, they were like, all right, we're done with you. We're DFA. You're out of here. Like, we can't have you in this clubhouse anymore.
00:59:54
Speaker
I had one of the guys from our locked on Cubs. He was like, could be Wilson Contreras. And I was like, well, it sure didn't feel like he was somebody who wasn't on board with anything they wanted. But he said that they had some issues with him in his final year with the Cubs, where I kind of brought up like, well, you didn't want to resign him. You didn't want him anymore. You didn't trade him. So I would have been.
01:00:18
Speaker
not all right with all the, you know, doing anything you want me to do anymore. Yeah, I can understand why he'd be like that in his last year.
01:00:26
Speaker
I don't know. I mean, those are the names that a lot of people brought up. Some people said Dylan Carlson. I find that hard to believe, though. He just does not seem like the guy that I mean, every injury that he's had seems is pretty significant. I mean, I mean, having surgery on the ankle and stuff. So it's not like he was, oh, I'm swollen. I can't go out there like, no, it was a little jet injury. And then he had the oblique going on with that. So
01:00:52
Speaker
Those are the names that we came up with when I just kind of brainstorm with people. It was an O'Neill and a Flaherty, just attitude-wise, I think, as far as Flaherty goes. He just rubbed people the wrong way. I don't know if Jack Flaherty's a good guy or not, but people didn't like his body language on the mound, just kind of the way he carried himself.
01:01:11
Speaker
I don't know if other players in the clubhouse had issues with him. I'd never really heard that, but he was a guy. And then Cabrera was the other one that I thought was clearly they were not him and Ali didn't get along since he spiked the ball on the mound the previous year. It just didn't seem like his time with the Cardinals is going to be much longer.
01:01:30
Speaker
Well, and Cabrera coming out and saying that he thought he should have, you know, the high leverage innings and, um, where he had not necessarily shown that he really had earned those necessarily. Um, that definitely did not help. And that would go into the, those kinds of comments. And maybe that's, maybe it is a little bit more of a past tense type of thing as that had been cleared out already. Yeah.
01:01:52
Speaker
Um, yeah, a lot of people did jump at Tyler and Neil and he got a figure. I mean, by the end of the year, I mean, you didn't have anybody there that didn't want to be there because if they did, they were on the IL, right? I mean, everybody that was up with these young guys that were getting there, probably only chance, um, to play ball. And we, you know, maybe we found something there in Richie Palacio's and being able to see him at that time that he never would have got an opportunity at another time. But
01:02:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think we'll be able to tell a lot more from this off season. I mean, if they, if they weigh, if they DFA, Tyler O'Neill did, yeah, he's probably part of that problem because you don't just let that kind of guy go if you can help it. Um, so I think that's where we'll find out maybe, or at least we'll assume any trade that was made will have something to do with that. Yeah. Uh, one, one other name that came to mind, I, and it kind of goes on with what you're saying about, uh, body language and stuff like that would be a Gallegos.
01:02:46
Speaker
I know he just doesn't you know he when he when he gets taken out of a game he's always it's just there's never any emotion coming out and never any emotion going in the game really I mean you know
01:02:57
Speaker
Well, if they're pulling Gallegos, it's usually after he got shelled and gave up a ball. That's true. He's probably not the happiest of guys out there knowing that he's true enough. He just gave up a 430 foot shot into the seats and left field. So it wasn't even when he's pitching good, it just doesn't really show a whole lot of emotion out there and stuff like that. I don't know. Maybe I mean, too much into that. But, you know, people are different. I mean, then there's some of that. Right. I mean, we know we saw J.D. Drew play in St. Louis and nobody ever thought he was doing anything. And he turned into a quite a
01:03:27
Speaker
quite a good career when we saw, you know, Kobe Rasp was have some of the same type of issues. We've had a lot of guys, you know, I think, honestly, if he wasn't an MVP, some people might say that about Paul Goldschmidt, right? I mean, he doesn't show that emotion. He's a very stoic kind of guy. And we do like, especially in pictures, I think we do, as fans like to see a little bit more of, you know, fire and emotion, but that's just not the way some people go about it. And so it's hard to know
01:03:54
Speaker
You know, is this just the way he is or is this just, I've, you know, kind of given up and by the, by September and this team, I mean, it would have been very hard to be very fired up about leaving the game. Oh yeah. Yeah. Um.
01:04:08
Speaker
We're going to kind of run a little longer than I thought, but a couple of a couple of things I do want to get to is we've talking about the pitching and what we're going after. I mean, we've already mentioned some names and names tonight. Snell, Nola. I know J.D. You covered a bunch of them. I just wrote an article on on five free agents and four trades. And one name I want to throw at you guys, because this one hasn't been mentioned a lot by a lot of people or two names, actually. Lewis Castillo from Seattle.
01:04:40
Speaker
Uh, well they locked him into a big contract, so he ain't going nowhere. Well, he's got, he does have four years left on it. I see that. I know that, but you know, if, if they're, if they know they're going to have somebody's coming after him, uh, and I think they want to keep Kirby and Gilbert, he might be the one they might be willing to let go for the right price.
01:05:01
Speaker
I would, I don't think that's probably something Seattle is looking to. If you want to, if you wanted to go after maybe like a Robbie Ray, who has been injured and want to sigh young and you want to rip him from Seattle, I think he's easier one to take. I mean, Luis Castillo, I don't see why Seattle would want to trade their ace, you know. Interesting thought.
01:05:22
Speaker
Well, and I mean, I think that, you know, if you're if you're Seattle and you're looking to maximize your return, you're trading one of those young guys because you're going to get something back with Cassio, he's he's getting to the middle or lower end of his career. I mean, he's been already feels like forever. And and you do have you have that cost. You do have cost certainty, but you also have it for four more years. And, you know, there's a good chance that because he's a pitcher that some of that time is going to be injured. So
01:05:48
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you know, you never know anything could happen. But I would think Seattle is much more likely to move one of their young guys and try to get a really top of the line bat to go with it. Yeah, Seattle's in a win mode type right now. Like, you know, they barely did make the wild card. You know, they're building behind Julio Rodriguez. Like, they're trying to win now. So trading your ace, I don't think that would make a lot of sense for them. You know, a Dylan Cease from Chicago, a team that
01:06:18
Speaker
isn't on the verge of winning right now you know moving him is is somebody that makes sense to me that that's an ace that i think makes sense to be on the trade block um Tyler Glass now with somebody in Tampa Bay that's been brought up i brought him up last season but because they don't have McClanahan next year and Rasmussen's hurt right now i don't know if trading him is something they're interested in doing either despite him
01:06:41
Speaker
you know, being he's going to cost like 25 million, which is crazy money for Tampa Bay. I don't know if that makes a lot of sense for them who just went to the playoffs again with without those guys without mcclay and Rasmussen for most of the season, you know, they both were down anyway. So and they lost Wanda Franco. So I don't know if that's going to be a smart idea for them. But it never hurts to go to, you know, call them and say, hey, what do you what do you guys think about Kevin Gosling out of Toronto?
01:07:12
Speaker
Uh, I mean, I haven't, I'll be, I'll be honest.
Future Pitching Prospects
01:07:18
Speaker
That's not one that I have given a lot of thought, uh, a lot of thought to, I don't know what his contract situation is. I think he's well, Gosman just signed. He, remember he was, uh, with the giants and then signed, uh, he's 26, I think is when his, uh, free agent is due is, uh, 26 maybe. Yeah.
01:07:40
Speaker
He's got a couple years left on his contract. Obviously a very good pitcher. Swing and miss though. I think he was second in the league in strikeouts to Strider this year, to be honest. He was one I want to try and get through three years ago when he was on the block.
01:07:55
Speaker
They decided not to go after himself. I mean, like Jason said, the Toronto still, I would think not ready to tear that down. Maybe not off that pain. Maybe now a guy in Toronto, maybe you talked to him about Alec Manoa, who was just an all star and then just collapsed. And I don't know whether it's physical mental stuff. I don't know. Like, I mean, obviously you have to go figure that out, whether or not.
01:08:20
Speaker
you know, what the problem was this year. But a guy who was a first round pick still very, very young. And I if that's a guy, maybe you can talk to him to say like, hey, you know, this could be somebody you could get for a little bit cheaper considering what he went through. Is that going to excite Cardinals fans? I don't know.
01:08:39
Speaker
It was a really bad season this year, but enough where he was sitting down, that's how bad it was. But if he's the third guy you bring in, I think everybody's thought about it. If he's your main name, then yeah, you got troubles. Yeah, I mean, if you're bringing this, you bring in a Snell or something like that, and then you bring in them a note. That's, it's kind of tempered out a little bit, but yeah.
01:08:59
Speaker
Yeah, you know, wouldn't want it. You wouldn't trade for him to say, OK, this is going to be our new top of the line starting, you know, top of the line. That's the line. But then maybe that's a guy that you do do with the Carlson or a Tyler O'Neill, especially with a Carlson, probably because he has control. And he's like, OK, you know, maybe you bounce, you bet on his bounce back. We're betting on Alec Manoa.
01:09:20
Speaker
I think more than anything manoa sounds like the chemistry might be an issue as well because you know he didn't you know didn't report when he went to the minor leagues and stuff like that for a while um so that would be interesting in the stuff you'd have to do but I you know it would be interesting another guy in that vein that is a free agent is Frankie Montos right I mean he's been hurt he again if you're if you want to make that third guy you bring in a lottery ticket then
01:09:44
Speaker
And maybe a gamble right there. Right. Take a shot. Yeah. He's got two of them actually. Luis Severino is another one. Yeah. A free agent that's had some injury problems. But when he was good a couple of years ago, he was really good. When he's on, he's on. It's kind of like glass, no. And when glass knows on, he's on. But. When he's on the mound, you mean? When he's on the mound, he's on. The problem is keeping him on the mound at this point, you know.
01:10:11
Speaker
Okay, well, the last couple of minutes we got, who do you look for? I mean, we've mentioned a few names already. One guy I'm hoping to get a good look at in spring training is Palacios. What's the name you guys want to get a good look at in spring training?
01:10:29
Speaker
Well, obviously, Palacios is a guy that I mean, I think you got a good look at him this year. And I think he's certainly earned a chance to win a spot in spring training. He's shown I mean, he was a decent prospect for Cleveland. It's not like he was just some bum they found like he just it was a numbers game there. And the Cardinals got lucky, but it's about time they got lucky when they picked somebody up.
01:10:51
Speaker
They're the ones usually cutting guys that end up becoming stars. So it's nice to see that he became a useful thing. I liked his energy on the field, like everything about him. It was fun to watch. He was one of the reasons why September wasn't as miserable as it should have been, because we got to see him and some of these young guys play. I'm personally nobody that was really on the roster at the end of the season. Obviously, Mason Wynn, Jordan Walker, you're excited about them. But, you know, I'm curious about guys like Victor Scott.
01:11:19
Speaker
You know, he had a monster year. What can he do? You know, if you've got if you're going to move on from some of these outfielders is Victor Scott, somebody who's in the plans that possibly making the team next year. Now, he didn't play AAA or anything very long, but he was a double A for the most of the season.
01:11:39
Speaker
But I'm excited to see some of these other guys. You know, I want to see, I want to see Roby in spring training. I want to see McGreevy, Jerpy, like all of these young guys. I want to see if there's a spot for them on this team.
Contact Information and Closing Remarks
01:11:51
Speaker
I know most of them have been starters, starting pitchers for their careers, but, you know,
01:11:57
Speaker
But if you're good enough to be on the Major League roster, maybe these are the bullpen pieces that they can use instead of having to go spend a ton of money on somebody like a Josh Hader or anything like that, that they spend their money on the starting rotation, make a trade for a third guy, and then have all these young guys kind of fill out the bullpen.
01:12:17
Speaker
one way to look at a plan in spring training, but that's who I would, I'm excited to see. I like seeing the prospects in spring training. So there's nobody that was actually on the roster this year that I'm like, Ooh, this is going to be cool to see them. You know, I'm not excited about Alec Burleson in spring training. It's just not something for me. Okay. Sounds good. Okay. Well guys, I want to thank you guys for coming on. Uh,
01:12:46
Speaker
JD, where can the fans find you? Well, I'm on Twitter or X, whatever you want to call it these days, at JD sports radio. You can also follow our podcast, which is locked on Cardinals, part of the locked on podcast network. So you can go at LO underscore Cardinals on there. You can find us on YouTube as well. And anywhere you get your podcasts where we're available, just type in locked on Cardinals.
01:13:12
Speaker
All right. How about you, Daniel? Where can we find you these days? Well, always at C70 on the Twitters. You've also got Meet Me at Mutual and Gateway to Baseball, have them both at pretty much anywhere you've got podcasts. And occasionally I write at a sub-stack or a blog, but you'll find those links at Twitter when I actually do it.
01:13:33
Speaker
All right. Well, as always, you can get in touch with me, leave comments where you where you listen here on Spotify, Apple, Google. Shoot me a message on X at TSO TV, GCS or email me TSO TV dot GCS at Gmail dot com.
01:13:48
Speaker
And don't forget to check out gateway city sports.com for your articles by Russ Robinson, Brian Swope, Gene Bonds, and yours truly. Also give me a listen to the podcast, like a team of rivals with Ron Nuttle, Pete Geddes, and Elliott Dewey. The two for three with a mighty moose, Mike Stevenson. And coming back soon, the Derek King Sports Show with
01:14:08
Speaker
Garrett King. And that's at gateway to city sports.com. One quick programming note for next week. I will have former U of I basketball star Dion Thomas on. We'll be talking about Lion Eye basketball. So for my guests, JD Haffron and Daniel Shoptaw, this is Don Glenn telling you to have fun, stay safe. We'll talk to you again when we're talking sports on the bleachers. Good night, everybody.