Transcript
Speaker: Did you teach them to advocate for themselves? Like that is the win you should be celebrating. I joked like well-behaved babies rarely make history. Say what you mean and mean what you say. So if you're gonna say we are going to do one puzzle and then we're gonna do three hugs, a kiss and a goodbye, and it's okay for you to cry because your teacher knows how to take care of kids who are new at school.
Speaker: Welcome back to the Play On Words podcast from Big City Readers. It's Ms. Beth, and I'm here with my friend Lizzie from The Workspace for Children, and we're going to talk all about back to school and back to school pep talk for both parents and kids. Hi, Lizzie.
Speaker: Hi. I'm so glad you're calling it a pep talk also because that really is what it is. like It's not something that everyone needs to get super stressed about. And it really is for parents and kids. Like it's not just for kids. It's really a pep talk. I love that.
Speaker: Yes. Okay. Why do you think that? Okay. Obviously this is kind of a dumb question, but like, what is like the big thing that people get stressed about? Is it like, I'm, I was trying to think about this this morning as I was like on a run and I was like, is it that you feel like you've done all these things to protect your kid and like you've laid all these like foundations and then you're like, oh my gosh, what if somebody undoes everything I do? Or is it, do you think people are more stressed about like the safety of not knowing what's going on with their kids? Or like, what do you think is like the most stressful thing parents are feeling right now? I mean, I remember when my oldest who actually just turned 17, remember when he started his very first threes program, feeling this utter sense of panic just because like I didn't know what was happening in his day. And you go, especially, you know, if you're a stay at home parent, you go from spending every waking second with them
Speaker: To not. And all of a sudden their world is different. You don't know everything. And that alone is just like disequilibrium. It just feels so uncomfortable as a parent. And I think when parents feel uncomfortable, well, I know when I feel uncomfortable and I am a parent, like what's our m MO to control, right? We want to control as much as we can. And so you can't. And that just feels scary. And now, I mean, I'm glad that I was not a three-year-old parent in 2024 because now everyone's like, do this, don't do that. Say this, don't say that.
Speaker: It's like you can't possibly feel like you're doing things as best as you can for your kid. And that also feels like panic and lack of control. Yeah. I think that what you you said, like the unknown is such a ah good reminder because people always say that my – they're like, you've once taught me this definition of anxiety that I think is so helpful. And so I'll share it. Anxiety is really an overestimation of the problem and an underestimation of the skills that you have to deal with it. –
Speaker: it's that like that we're like overestimating. And then like, we have these like unknown things like, okay, wait, I'm like, I don't have any access to my kid. Like what is happening? I don't know. Like, yeah just don't know what's happening.
Speaker: And to your point about that, you know, parents have amazing coping skills. Right. And I think, you know, I wrote this back to school resource. I love it. I used to be a preschool teacher, but when I started writing it, I thought I was writing it so that kids would feel confident at school. And then I realized it was really for parents to feel more confident sending their child to school. Because when we feel like as the adult, everything that's natural for us to feel, which is like anxiety, out of control, all these things, like then our kid does too. And then we start trying to control our kid and the environment and we can't. And then things go even more haywire. So I i feel like as long as the parent can feel some sense of ground under their feet, you can start taking one step at a time.
Speaker: Yeah, a regulated adult helps regulate the child. I always think about this. I'm like still a nervous flyer, even though I fly often. And like, I'm always like, okay, like I can listen to the pilot's voice when he says that this is normal turbulence. And like, if they're calm and they say like, we'll be out of this in a couple of minutes, then I can be calm because they know what they're doing. Or yeah if I see like, or even like if there's like a little bit of turbulence, but the flight attendants are still like doing the drinks, you know, then i'm like, okay, it can't be that bad. Like they, they are showing me that we're safe or like, you know, just looking at their face. So like thinking of kids in that same way, like,
Speaker: You're regulated. They're going to be regulated because you're like, the person? And you can say, i mean, I remember saying to my kids, look in my face. Like, do I look scared? I feel really safe sending you here. And you're going to feel safe soon, too. The goal is not for them to feel safe off the bat. It's for them to learn to feel safe, right? And in order for them to do that, it's our job to exude that kind of confidence. And I really, you know, I think back to school, back to your original question, can be so scary for parents because you start to feel like, They need the right sneakers. They need the right notebook. They are not little ones, but yeah you know, whatever it is, because we get hung up in the details because that's what we can control when really what you can control. I think as a parent of a preschooler or a kindergartner, you can play with your kid about school beforehand because play is how children make sense of their world. It's how they gain back a sense of control. And for me, that's the most tangible thing you can do. to prepare your child for school is to play about school.
Speaker: i think you should end the episode right there. Yeah. But because that's it. Like, okay, I, yes, I'm always saying like, stop worrying about if they know their ABCs and yeah like, they're going to learn that in school, hopefully. um But like the, the thing that you can do is teach them like how to advocate for themselves or like, just like you can't, you, unfortunately you cannot protect them unless you literally never let them outside of your house and never let them interact with any other people or like watch a TV. Like you can't control everything that's going to happen to them and they're going to experience, but you can equip them with the tools on how to talk about what they're feeling or ask for what they need. And and I love that. Can you give a more example about how how to do that through play?
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, one thing, you know, I think a lot of parents feel really nervous that their kid is going to cry at drop off. Right. And so, you know, they got really started. They don't want their kid to be the crier. And so they go and be like, don't cry, don't cry. You know, and the truth of the matter is like, it's really okay for your kids to cry.
Speaker: it really, really is. It's not a reflection on you as a bad parent. But what we, what our kids are crying, what they're saying to us, you know, is usually like, I'm scared. I don't know what's happening. I don't know what to do. And so one thing you can do is this is really simple and really impactful.
Speaker: Play with your toddler or your preschooler. I mean, they love to play with the door. You know, you're always like, don't slam your fingers in the door. You can really go on one side of their bedroom door and say, like, let's pretend to say goodbye. Like, I'm going to knock on the door and you're going to be the teacher, you know, whatever it is. Or you can say, like, let's pretend like I'm the little kid and you're the grown up and you drop me off at school. and practice your goodbye routine. Like we'll do three hugs and a high five, and then we'll say goodbye.
Speaker: You know, so that's just really like wiring them for what's going to happen because then when they get there and that does happen, they're like, oh, okay, knew this was going to happen. It feels less scary.
Speaker: The other thing is, you know, you so a lot of teachers, unfortunately, will tell you to just sneak out. They'll be fine. Just sneak out. And I think, you know,
Speaker: The larger issue here is building trust for our kids in a new environment. And so when you sneak out, you are not building that trust. And I really, you know, I often say this to parents when they think like, I'm just going to sneak out. It's just easier.
Speaker: Well, number one, it's easier maybe on you, not them. But I want you to think about going into a cocktail party or a crowded bar with your best friend. What do you say for, I mean, I'm always like, don't leave me. Like, you know, don't leave And what if when they go to the bathroom, they're like, okay, I'm not leaving you. Like you got the drinks.
Speaker: I'm going to run to the bathroom and I'll be right back. And you turn around and they're gone and they don't come back. How are you left feeling? You feel so insecure.
Speaker: Then you start to worry, is something larger wrong? Is something like my friend never lies to me, never leaves me here. Why is she gone now? Is there something wrong with me? Like, did she stop liking me?
Speaker: So we really don't, you know, and then like, not only are they in a new environment, but now they're worrying about you. Like, So we really don't want to sneak out. I mean, I think it's wonderful for people to have a faster goodbye. But I think the most important thing is to say what you mean and mean what you say. So if you're going to say we are going to do one puzzle and that we're going to do three hugs, a kiss and a goodbye. And it's OK for you to cry because your teacher knows how to take care of kids who are new at school.
Speaker: you know, I think that's a really big thing, too, is really showing your child. Your teacher knows so much about children who are three and four. They know all about the kids who cry. They know all about the kids who don't even feel comfortable crying. Sometimes kids just want to watch and that's OK. You know, really giving them that comfort in their teacher.
Speaker: Yeah. Oh my gosh. There's so many amazing things that you just said. One, um I can just imagine that playing with the door thing can lead to like so many fun moments, actually, because you know like yeah obviously when a kid is dysregulated or they're like having a hard time, it's harder to like reason with them and explain things. So like taking that time two weeks before school starts, the day before, while you're already playing, not being like, let's pretend going back to school, but maybe you're playing and then say like, oh, I'm playing mommy. Wait, what if I play...
Speaker: going to school and you play teacher and like the door thing. I can just imagine like a kid cracking up at like, you know, if you say something like, do you think your teacher when we say goodbye is going to say toodaloo?
Speaker: And like, I feel like kids like love silly words like that that. And then like, even like you might be like, Oh no, she's probably going to say adios. Actually, my sister always does things like this probably like subconsciously, but she always like changes the word. She's like, bodyos or like, You know, like she like changes the words and then like the kids, whenever they're saying bye, they always like say it silly like that. And it's like your secret like code.
Speaker: And not only is that playful and connected, it's also going back to showing your kid you feel so confident about being there, them being there, that you're relaxed enough to like do a funny thing, you know, like.
Speaker: That's huge. That is huge. that Actually, that when I like was flying once, and I hadn't flown in a while because it was right after 2020, and I remember exactly that, that I was going to the bathroom before the flight, and the pilot came out, and he said something like – I don't know. He said something weird like, oh ah oh, is this first time flying in a while? And i was like, yeah. And he goes, me too. And I was like, and I like looked at him and then I was like, really? And he's like, no. And then he came over to my seat and he was like, I was just kidding. Like, I've been flying this whole time. Like, um you're in good hands. And I, but it was funny because I was like, well, if he really was the first time, he wouldn't make that joke. He wouldn't make a joke.
Speaker: Right. He wouldn't. So another thing I think parents can do, you know, say you have a kid who is apprehensive about school, like you might not want to be like, let's play school, you know, and like make it super, you know But what you can start doing is taking their toys, take like their little figurines, hide them under like a napkin at dinner and say like, bye, you know, Mr. Dinosaur. I'll be back later. And, you know, and cover it with the napkin and then, up hello, grownups always come back. You know, just playing with that theme of away and back.
Speaker: peekaboo sounds so silly to say like, I don't a peekaboo with my preschooler. A, they're going to love it and think it's like the funniest thing you've ever done if you like peekaboo from behind the couch. But two, it's just really reaffirming that feeling of grownups always always come back. I will never forget you know teaching in an older forest class. And I would still put out those little manipulative bears in a sand table for the first two weeks of school. And even the most mature older kids, they were hiding those bears and digging them out, hiding those bears and digging them out. Because deep in their body, they're remembering
Speaker: We go away, we come back. We go away, we come back. you know And it's that's just a theme. If you're at the beach this summer, if you're still having summer, like hide things in the sand at the beach and make them come back.
Speaker: It just really reaffirms for your kids. But I want to tell you actually a quick story because they think this will really help parents understand how much control they do have over separation.
Speaker: A long time ago, I was teaching threes in New York City And I had this one little girl in my class and she was having such a hard time separating. Her parents were really unsure whether or not she was ready for school. So there was just like a lot of angst. and she wasn't ready to have a teacher, you know, try to distract her or play with her. She really needed to just watch in the corner and it was heartbreaking and, you know. So I started playing this game where I just, you know, took the baby dolls out, was holding them and not anywhere near her, just, you know, doing this thing. And I could see her watching me. And another little boy came over and said, Lizzie, what are you doing? And I was like was wondering if any of the children wanted to pretend to say goodbye for a game, you know, and he was like, sure. And so we like hugged and coddled our baby doll. And then we said bye to it and we put it down and we went in the cubby room.
Speaker: And then we waited, like we counted to three and we came back and we were like, the grownups always come back and we reunite with our baby dolls. Yeah, whatever. It's funny, it's fun, whatever. So we start doing this, but I'm noticing other kids in the class, the ones who weren't crying, but you could tell they weren't totally comfortable, started to really watch. And then they started playing. And then this class started to really take this game on as their own. Like some kids were saying to their baby doll, We're going to do one puzzle and then I'm going to say goodbye to you. And then they would go to the cubby room and come back. And when I tell you these children played this game until October with the baby dolls, they did. like They did it until it was processed, like until the separation process was finished for them.
Speaker: And this little girl just watched. She just watched and watched from the corner. And no one, I was put like my assistant under like, strict like no one is to push her. She's allowed to just watch. You know, she's a lot, we can very big on meeting kids where they are.
Speaker: And she watched and watched. And one day she came into the classroom and she just took one of the baby dolls out of the bin and she went and she sat in her spot. And I was like, no one say anything. And then the next day she played the game.
Speaker: And when I tell you this child went from being like sullen and shy and so painful separation in the beginning of the year to becoming one of the classroom leaders, right? Like so outspoken by the end of the year.
Speaker: But it's just that thing of like you can help your child gain control over their experience by reflecting it in their play, giving them that opportunity.
Speaker: Yeah, I think that what you just said, reflecting it in their play or even just like reflecting it in your language. I think that there's ah like a big um confusion happening in like parenting styles. I don't know if you've seen this or heard this with people you work with, but I think like, you know,
Speaker: people think if we do something like it's okay to cry and you're crying because you're scared and this is a new thing like reflecting that back to kids some people at least that i've talked to think that they're perpetuating it and that they're making it more of a big deal than it is or like i i was working with a family and the kid was going to camp for the first time and the mom was like, you know, you might feel scared and you might not want to go and you still have that decision. We can talk about it. And the dad was like, you're making her scared. Like, what would you say to people that are? So I think number one, it's really about knowing your child. Number two, it's about meeting them where they are. You know, even I can talk about, you know, um an experience with middle schooler the other day who thought that some kids were pointing at them in a store, right? And you want to either say They're not. No, they're not. No, they're not. You know, so that's like one extreme.
Speaker: And then, you know, the other extreme is being like, oh, my God, they are like, let's get out of here. You know, yes, like you can, you know, but then we can offer our kid. Sure, they might be. They might be. And you got to choose how you act. You know, you got to choose.
Speaker: And I think we can do that with our with our kids. Like. You're going go to school and you might cry and you might feel worried and you might not. You might just start playing.
Speaker: And I think there's another thing we can do to really help our kids, which is anticipate help them anticipate in their mind. This is this is almost like um manifesting for them, right? It's help them anticipate the steps of what it feels like to feel good at school.
Speaker: So I think it's really helping them picture like you're gonna go into school, you're going say bye to mom and dad. I wonder if the Play-Doh is going to be pink or yellow this week. I wonder if you're going to choose books first or Plato first. Wait, don't tell me because I'm going to ask you when I pick you up. But it's just getting their mind wired for like, you might do this and you might do this. And you could even say, like, you might choose to sit in a chair and feel really sad. And that's OK. And you might choose to start playing. And it's really up to you. And whichever one you choose is totally OK.
Speaker: Yeah, that's exactly the kind of like the sort of manifesting thing is what I was thinking with that like door playing. If like it's toodaloo, like I'm like imagining that like your four year old is in preschool then. And then like say like you are leaving and the teacher says, OK, let's say toodaloo to the parents. And then like you and your kid get to look at each other and be like, oh, we were right. That was what we played. Like, can you believe that happened? And that's such a confident thing.
Speaker: moment Yeah. and so that's why i mean i remember being a preschool teacher i used to write a welcome letter to the kids in our class and i used to ask them i used to say can you guess whether the plato is going to be you know yellow or green when you come to school because that gave them something to think about in their mind and anticipate okay there's going to be plato on the table I get to guess what it is that feels playful. I get to connect with my teacher by telling them like, I was right, or I thought it was going to be the other thing and it was this, you know, whatever it is. But it's that exercise of helping them anticipate being at school.
Speaker: Yeah. and you know what? um That kind of makes me think about like anxiety or like if your nervous system is in like fight or flight. Well, one, we want to like get out of that. But two, I remember working with someone at one point, like on my team who was teaching a parent class about this and She said, well, if you're in fight or flight and it's too hard to get out, like there's another thing you can go to. You can go to fawn, which is like you have to like be busy. So like if you are in that anxious state, like yeah, we want to get them regulated. But also like an anxious mind is an active mind. So give it something to do. So if you are giving that anxiety a job, like do you think it's going to be pink or or yellow? Do you think that your teacher is going to say...
Speaker: adios or badios? Like, do you think that like giving it a job instead of being like, stop having those anxious thoughts, but being like, oh, you're thinking a lot about school. Let's give it some good things to think about or wonder about.
Speaker: Absolutely. And you know, you can also, you know, there's lots of little tips in my resource, but you know, even really simple things like going online to your school's website and printing out your teacher's picture And just hanging that on the refrigerator. And like when you're making lunch, you're making we're having turkey sandwiches for lunch. I wonder what Mr. Sam is having.
Speaker: You know, just weaving that in to your daily conversation because it makes the teacher feel real and feel like a real part of the fabric of this child's life.
Speaker: Oh, I can just imagine how much fun kids would have like feeding their teacher. Right. That's so silly and fun. I love how silly you can make it and it makes it more exciting.
Speaker: Yeah. When I walk into a preschool classroom, I'm always looking for a picture schedule and I want kids to know, you know, this is where we are now when I'm dropping you off. Then you're going have snack.
Speaker: Then you're going play outside. Then you're going have story. And then I'm going to come back. Right. And so that gives them a concrete representation of when their caregiver, when their grownups coming back for them.
Speaker: And they can hold on to that. Right. I mean, I remember even in my class, sometimes I would take that card off the wall because I had it velcroed and I would let the child hold that if they needed to.
Speaker: Just as a concrete representation of like, my mom is coming back. Or one year we took a picture of one of the kids and we and we taped a picture of his mom and him on that goodbye card, just so they could remember, this is when my grownup comes back, because that's so important. It's so much more important than, you know, I think parents will be like, well, Did my kid play? Did they raise their hand at meeting? Did they sit in the circle? Because those are the things we feel like we're supposed to like our kids are supposed to be doing. but I really want to encourage parents to think about, did my child feel unsafe and work through it and and feel better?
Speaker: Did my child have to go to the bathroom and they felt worried, but they knew what to do because we practice being like, I have to go potty out loud, you know, whatever it is. you know, did they work through the thing? So it doesn't matter what the thing is. It's more about saying like, my child's coming to school one way.
Speaker: My goal is for them to feel safe, right? i mean, I had this wonderful director and she used to always say like, No, the curriculum this year is being at school.
Speaker: That is the curriculum for two year olds. It's being at school. They've never done this before. You know, is I love all the things you're saying about me and the child where they're at. And like the biggest thing being like, did you teach them to advocate for themselves? Like that is the win you should be celebrating. Like, oh, my gosh, you knew how to tell someone you had to go to the bathroom. And I was actually talking about this with my sister last night because I'm She, her fourth baby is very big personality. And she was like, you know, sometimes I like when people are like, oh, my baby's so chill. And she's like, this kid is not chill. And I was like, I joked like well-behaved babies rarely make history. And, but it's like, I'm like, do you want a kid that grows up and is like, I never showed emotion. Like that becomes an adult. That's like, right I don't know how to connect with people. I'm just, whatever my boss tells me to do, I do it. And that's what I do. And I am a robot. Like, no, you want someone that knows how to advocate for people and things and like to stand up for what doesn't work. And that starts with like knowing how to be like, I'm uncomfortable right now. I'm scared about going to school and allowing that.
Speaker: And they learn how to walk into an uncomfortable situation and work through it. And they don't have to thrive on the first day. They really don't. Yeah. Life and life is uncomfortable. And it's like, you're never like always going to be like, yes, this is the best day ever. Like sometimes you're going to like, I don't want to go to work or I don't want to go to that restaurant or I don't want to go to school. And it doesn't mean you did a bad job. Exactly. Exactly. I want to give you one more tip, I think, to help parents feel more in control, which is you can write an email to your child's teacher beforehand and say like,
Speaker: you know, this is my child's name, but we like to call him this, you know? So because like, wouldn't you rather as a little kid you know, if someone says Charles, you know, and they're like, wait, my name is Charlie, you know, it's confusing. Yeah. I was an Elizabeth.
Speaker: Me too. Oh, wait, did we ever talk about that? No, I was actually wondering that when we started, I was like, wait, are we both Elizabeth? You know, but also saying to them, like, this is how, to the teacher, like, I anticipate their separation process being like this.
Speaker: This is how to comfort them. This is how not to comfort them. Like my child doesn't like to be picked up or whatever it is, because I even as a former teacher, I love that. Right. It's like research and data on the children that you're about to teach. It's helpful. And I think when you can provide that to your teacher ahead of time, they will appreciate that.
Speaker: And because you're not going to go in on the first day of school and start having a conversation with them, you can't. Oh my gosh. you can do it ahead of time. Do it ahead of time. And what would you say to the parent though that's like, well, don't want to be annoying.
Speaker: Right. I would say annoying is when you try to talk to them on the first day of school when they have a class of a bunch of kids and you're trying to be like, well, my kid likes this, but they don't like this.
Speaker: When you send them an email, it's not annoying. Your teacher will appreciate it and she can read it when she gets to it. She can do with it what she likes, she or he or they.
Speaker: and you know, it's not annoying. It's annoying if you try to do it on the first day of school when your teacher is trying to do a million other things. Yes. Okay. Wait, let me ask you about this. My a friend asked me to go to school drop-off because they were having a hard time. And I went and i I kind of like realized that the hard time was not really about her child, but it was like sort of a chaotic situation. So what i witnessed was that the teacher was talking to too many parents. So the kids were then waiting for a long time. And that, that time was giving them the opportunity to start to feel stressed. And then one kid started crying and then the teacher's aid went to that one child, but then all the other kids in the classroom were like there with no one really like guiding them on what they're going to do starting that day. So then like, that's like her kid, started to then feel uncomfortable and started to cry because like, of course, no adult, like right who's watching me, who's in charge of me.
Speaker: Yeah. like oh He was fine until, until like the parents started talking to the main teacher and the aide had to go to that one crying kid. I'll tell you a story. you know, I, as ah a teacher, as a young teacher, I remember this very wise director that I had saying to me, don't try to take on the child who's having the hardest time with separation. have them attached to your assistant. And I was like, what? But why? Like, no, because I'm really good at this. And like, she's new and she doesn't know. Like, you know, she was like, nope, let her attach to the, your job is to care for the larger group, right? And you can advise your assistant. So as a parent, I would say, have your child connect with the assistant. I would i would say to my child, like, oh, if you're feeling XYZ, go over to miss, you know, so-and-so. Because that's the person that is going can be their attachment figure in the classroom because they have less on their plate.
Speaker: Oh, that's a great tip. So put the assistant on the fridge, too. Yes. Good point. Yep. If you're lucky enough to have it. Yeah. So maybe even if it's, if, if it this is before the school year starts for you, like even in the email, reach out. I mean, i would say most good preschools would like send, here's a picture of all of the teachers and hopefully they would, but I don't, I actually think that happens less than we think that happens. I know I worked at the most amazing preschool that we part of our like once the school year started for the teachers was to go have a visit at each of the kids houses. We always did that to home visits. And honestly, it's such a bridge between home and school.
Speaker: it It makes you make such a difference. And if you are a parent listening and your child's having a very hard time with separation, invite the teacher or assistant to come to your home for just 10 minutes. You don't, like you know, whatever it is, or even say, hey, can I bring my child 10 minutes early just to, you know, have...
Speaker: ah a little bit of alone time to help them separate. And even if you feel pushy doing that, you know, you can say, you know, i know I really value your time and I think this is going to make it easier on everyone because then the child's going to feel safer and secure in the classroom and then it's less of a lift for the teacher.
Speaker: Yes. Oh my gosh. I, this is reminding me of ah when I was a kindergarten teacher, I had a group of students that were really rambunctious. And so they didn't, they didn't have a hard time separating from their parents, but they caused a lot of problems in the classroom and sort of like, it's the same thing. Like I, it can be boiled down to like the same thing, you know, like they might be having anxiety or like, you know, there's lapses in the day and then they start stirring up trouble. So this I figured out who like the leader of it. So I was like, OK, if he starts, then he gets all these other boys. So I need to like get on his level. And so what I started doing and I like I'm sure teachers listening to this are like, please, this is you know, they're actually know the teachers listening to this would not be like, I'm never doing that because they're listening to this podcast on their free. Right. Good point. So, but like I would make a video for him every Sunday night and would send him the video. And I would like say like, Hey, Billy, it's Miss Beth. Here's what we're doing this week. And here's where I need your help. And then I would say, i would have him come early 10 minutes. And then I have had, I made him a clipboard with everyone's name in the class. I didn't need attendance to be taken. Like that was something that someone else did in the classroom, but he would check everybody in. Like he just needed that.
Speaker: activity. He needed job. Because when you give kids a productive job, that's what they're looking for, right? Kids want to be active participants in their own life. And so many times as both parents or teachers or whatever, we get lost in the big picture and we lose that detail. And it's so, so important. Like your two-year-old can put the spoons from the dishwasher in the drawer.
Speaker: yeah They can. And they feel so good doing it. And not only are they then doing that, but now they're not like splashing in the water bowl, the dog's water bowl. Right. And so much of our time is spent being like, stop doing that, stop doing that. What if you just allowed like four extra minutes for them to put the spoons away?
Speaker: Yeah. Or for them to put their own shoes on. Right. And I mean, they can do that. You don't, you know, while you're doing other stuff, while you're tending to the baby or whatever it is, you know, like I get it, but giving them a job that makes them, you know, feel like an active member of their community, which is their family or their classroom, a valued member, you will see a massive shift in confidence and behavior and security and all of those things. And it doesn't have to be high lift for the adult. It can be so basic.
Speaker: Yes. Yes. Like letting them, like, I was thinking about that when you, when you said like your biggest green flag in, well, you didn't say green flag, but I took it as a green flag in the classroom is when there's the visual pictures of the day, because we know, like we wake up and we're like, okay, I got to get dressed and then I got to take the kids to school. And then I have an 8am call and, and we kind of know what our day looks like. We might have like a digital calendar in our phone, but Our kids don't have that. And we're just kind of like, let's go. And it feels so unsettling and chaotic to just have someone like dragging you along. You're like, I don't know how long I'm going to be at this thing. Like, when does this end? It feels so anxiety inducing because you have no sense of control over what is happening.
Speaker: You know, and so, you know, I even I see the parents a lot to like tell your child where you're going to be while they're at school. I mean, sometimes I've even had parents like to take a picture of themselves in their cubicle at work and text it to me so that I could print it out and hang it up in their cubby.
Speaker: This is where mom is while you're here. Mom is still safe. Mom is still doing all the things that mom always does while you're here. And then she's going to come back. Do you know what? That makes me think of sometimes like when it's like a Saturday night in the summer and I'm like, I should be like out doing something. And like, and and I'm like, if I hear from like friends that are like, I'm watching a movie in bed, I'm Or even my sisters and I will text they're like, just put the kids to bed and I'm going to bed too. And it's nine o'clock. And I'm like, oh my gosh, same. And it's just like, it's like, I like feel like less. Relief. Yeah. You relief. I know what my friend but my people are doing. Like I know where everyone is.
Speaker: yeah yeah and also when i was in preschool i cried every single day i actually had so much anxiety about going to school and my mom bless her heart um did her best but had a ton of kids and so she always left me like i i know i've had a lot of therapy about it but like she i didn't want to go on play dates and so like she would like be like i'm gonna stay here and then i would go play with my friend and then i would come back down and she would be gone And like, oh my gosh, I like was so literally like my mom thought she was doing what was right, but I cried every day going to school until third. No, like I literally just felt like I'm like getting sweaty armpits, like thinking about that.
Speaker: Yeah, i yet no, but like, but I, you know, I all, I'm one of five. I, and I think that's like what people, you know, did that. And I'm sure my mom did that too, which is why I'm like, like, talkingking it's Don't me. What number are you?
Speaker: i am the second oldest. i yeah You seem like the top half. Yeah. What do I seem like? I think I already know that you're the youngest, right? No. Or not the youngest. You're what? Like the middle the middle youngest, right? You're kind of right. Yeah, because I'm the youngest biological and then that okay a bunch adopted after me. So I'm like, I am all the things. I'm youngest, middle, and oldest of the second half. It's yeah a mixed bag. But like my mom had podcasts to listen to. Like she probably would have known like, oh, she's crying because you are sneaking out.
Speaker: Right. She's not crying because she doesn't want to play with her friend. She's not crying because like she can't be somewhere without you. She's crying because she's like, wait, what? Where's my mom? Exactly. She said that I always would say, I just want to go to the Juul with you. and she was like, I don't go to the Juul every day. But that's so funny. Like I was wondering like where she was. i was like, when my mom's not here, she must be at the grocery store. Right. You like make up in your head. Like, where are they? You don't know.
Speaker: And even developmentally, like kids at that age, they're still really hammering down that object permanence. And so when you can give them a concrete piece of evidence of where their child is, mean, my youngest, my oldest, I mean, when he started preschool, I remember I made him this little picture like printed up. It was like from a um a photo booth yeah and I cut it out and i laminated it and I put um a hole through it and I tied a little piece of twine. And every day I would tie it to his belt loop and stick it in his pocket.
Speaker: And it was just a picture of me and him because I wanted him to know that like even when he was away from me, I'm still there. Like I'm still, you know, and it really helped him. And it became this thing like he would like rub it in his pocket and it got so worn down. I still have it. I need to find it. oh But, you know, just giving kids that concrete piece of evidence that mom, dad, caregiver, whoever it is still exist and are still doing regular, everyday, calm, normal, routine things while you're at school is very comforting.
Speaker: Yeah, I think like two big things that you've said are such good reminders to parents because I think parents or caregivers are making their life harder than it needs to be by being like, one, I don't think people value play. I think like they think like something as simple as you were saying about peekaboo, like people aren't realizing like this is actually going to help my child understand that I will come back for them. Because like, we're thinking like, okay, wait, well, what are the books? And like, I'll read the exact books. And I always am like, well, the books are actually just a starting point for conversations.
Speaker: Like the books aren't actually going to do the job for you. Like the goal would be that you're like, oh, I know like to read people think, okay, just read through the book. I'm like, no, read slow enough. Let them have dialogue on the pages. Like, oh, that boy is crying. Why do you think he's crying? Like, right. I mean, even don't even read the words, look at the pictures and say like, ha I wonder what's happening here because then you're really understanding like what's happening for your child, mil right? Because that's more important. And also, you know, i really, i really, if I could shout this from the rooftops, I would.
Speaker: Your child can't learn at school if they don't feel safe. So you teaching them the ABCs and all those things, but they're really anxious about where you are in separation. Like that's they're not learning anything at school. Right. They're going to work on. i mean, even if you think like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, like they are going to get what they need, which is safety. And if they don't feel safe and calm, they are not accessing the curriculum.
Speaker: I was trying to explain this to a person because I famously have um been ridiculed on the internet by some teachers about saying that I hate behavior charts. You know, those like color charts where the kids move their name if they do something wrong.
Speaker: I mean, I do hate behavior charts. Yeah. That's a given. you i would say you you i would say you famously hate homework too, right? Right. Yes. um But I remember like talking about that and a mom friend of mine was like,
Speaker: I don't get it. And so I was explaining it to her. I was like, well, if a child is so focused and worried that they are going to be like shamed by moving their name, they are in like this distressed state that they're not going to be receiving because so many teachers would fight and say like, I have to get through the curriculum. That curriculum, you might as well be talking to a wall. If yes kids are stressed, they are not hearing it. They're not learning it. No. And they maybe even can like spit it back out to you. It means nothing to them.
Speaker: Absolutely nothing. And so I was she like and I like got to this analogy where she's like, OK, so I'm trying to think about me and fight or flight. And so she was like, is it like if I'm sitting and working in my house and I hear like a loud thud? And I know that I'm the only one home. And then it's like, okay, just ignore that. You're probably safe. Just keep working. Well, no, no grownup is going be like, oh, that was probably nothing. Unless you're like, oh, there's a moving boxes and you know what it is. But youre like but like, if your heart is pounding and you're sweating, you're not getting productive work done.
Speaker: Like you're not. here that do Anyway, ah circling back to the email, you're like, oh, so I think someone's breaking in. um Please. Anyway, yeah yeah right oh what is that's not how it goes. Your body needs to be safe. Your brain needs to feel safe in order to learn.
Speaker: Yes. So I really, you know, i just I used to say this every year to the parents in my preschool class, which is my most important job is to have not only your child, but your entire family feel safe and welcome in this classroom in partnership. Right. And that I really think is like having a partnership with your teacher and first and foremost, that social emotional piece nailed down. And then you can do the other stuff.
Speaker: It's like that is the foundation and it goes fast once that stuff is good. It goes super fast and you've got to really understand like who those kids are, what amazing qualities they have. You're not going to know that about them until they feel safe and secure.
Speaker: this is Whenever I do like a consultation, I like tell the parents. Well, actually, i usually tell the kids if if it's a kid session. I'm like, I need you to tell your grown up. I know you want to help me right now, but you can't talk to me right now. Because so many of the grownups will jump in and if if I'm like, um tell me about your favorite foods or something. And then the kids are like distracted and they're like playing with Play-Doh and the grownup is like, pay attention, pay attention. We only have 30 minutes on this call. Like, I'm like, we will get to everything that we need to get to. I promise. But if I'm just trying to force through, it's it's it's not going to work.
Speaker: Yep. It's really about meeting them where they are. it just is. i love that. You are um so smart. Okay. I have a couple of questions for you personally. I'm like looking if there's anything else I wanted to add.
Speaker: I just wrote down that I was thinking about my sister's conversation. Big personality baby is on my notes. this But you want a big personality baby, right? You want that. Yes. sounding broke Because it it might not feel convenient at the time, right? As a parent. But we play the long game, right? And you want that. Yeah. It's the same thing. You don't. It never feels good as the parent to have the kid who's screaming and crying at drop off. And also in the long run, it kind of is.
Speaker: You know what? It actually really is. And I, my sister is like very good at doing this, but she's like, cause she's like, I sometimes get triggered when they're like oh, my baby's so chill. And she's like, yeah, he's just got a big personality and like, just like get, oh, when you said something about the middle school thing about people pointing, It's kind of like this like reframing your brain and your child's brain because I was with a friend working out and he was like, oh my gosh, those women are like laughing and like doing the exercise that we're doing. They're like making fun of us that we're not doing it that well. And I go...
Speaker: Or maybe they're like, wow, those guys are so confident. Like if I did this, this is what I would look like. And then they're laughing about something that has nothing to do with us. Right. Like, can you get that to happen in your brain? Like, so can like, if it's triggering you that someone's like, oh, my kid gets straight A's and is so chill and like it goes to school with ease and you're activated. But can't you be like, yeah.
Speaker: My kid feels really deeply and they're probably going to be like a world changing because of it. It's yeah a little difficult to parent right now, but I can't wait to see what she grows up It is. i You know, I just started a sub stack and I'm like getting super deep in my sub stack. But like I just started writing an article about how like we're raising this generation of kids to like speak up and to stand up. And they're all wearing these shirts that say like fierce female female and whatever it is. And let me tell you something. When that kid gets to middle school and they're still fierce and they still – are not a people pleaser, it's really hard as a parent. Okay. Like it really makes you start to be like, oh my God, like why can't my kid just like fit in and like do what they're supposed to do. But also, ah right. Like, can you do it a little, can you do it a little, but like, you know, but you know, and it's painful as a parent to be like, no, my kid's not the one who's just going agree with the teacher. My kid's not the one who's going to try to get the A, even though they don't believe in that piece part of the curriculum, right. It's painful. You are going to get called in from school. from the principal, you know, all of those things. But that's what you're teaching them to do, right? It is not easy to let your kid express themselves and to teach them how to self-advocate.
Speaker: Our world wasn't designed for that yet. Yeah, I think about and it. It will be painful. Like, do you know um Glennon Doyle? I mean, of course. Okay, we because actually I said that to someone the other day and they were like, no.
Speaker: Wait, really? But, you know, pulling in the responsive classroom, I'm never assuming anyone knows how to do anything or any of it. okay. So if you don't know Glennon Doyle, she actually was like, she had i used to follow her blog, Momastery, like when she was like a Christian mom. Me too. Oh my gosh. I remember that. Me too. Back in the day. We've been in this space for a long time. We really have. so she is now married to a woman, but she talks about her journey and that she like, you know, had an eating disorder and like ah was an alcoholic, like all these things. And, and I think about people like that often because when you are like a deeply feeling kid or a highly sensitive kid, or like that kid that is wired to say like, Hmm, No, this A doesn't make sense, actually. I don't care about the A because, like, this is not, like, those people, they, it's like they have, like, more of their skin showing. Like, their skin know is open. And so, like, it feels it. So we do try to, like, numb that. So, like, in kids, it can look like kids, like, throwing fits because, like, they're like, you're yeah understanding.
Speaker: me or exactly them crying because they're like, oh, I don't know when you're going back. And also maybe they're feeling everyone else in the class's energy, but they're four-year-old and they don't know how to explain that. but then That's right. when you help And a lot of our teachers- you know, are some of the most well-meaning teachers, you know, they are taught these like classroom management techniques that are designed to have all of the children obey and fit in. And so when your child doesn't obey and fit in, because you've taught them not to, yeah it can still feel really embarrassing and painful as a parent. So I really want to say to those parents, you know, like keep your eye on the long game. It's not your child's job to be popular. It's not their job to go quietly
Speaker: You are raising someone who's going to speak up and advocate. And along the way, there are going to be painful buks. Yes, there are. You know what? I thought about this one time. I i dated this guy many years ago. And when I met his mom, she said... but this is She pulled out his um report cards. And we were... Stop. Yeah. Yes. No, this is...
Speaker: We were 28 and she pulled out his report cards. And like one time when he made the honor roll and it was in the school newspaper and she was like, he has always been such a good boy. and like that did it for me about why I knew I couldn't be with this person because I was like, I don't want to be with a good boy. I want to be. with someone who isn't afraid to ruffle feathers. I want to be with somebody who sees that something isn't right, who steps outside of the lines. like And I do not want to be a parent of a child who is like meeting someone and I say, they're a good girl. She follows the rules. Like, no. Yep, yep.
Speaker: Yeah. And I will tell you, though, as a parent and especially as a parent in the parenting space, yeah you know, when you know that people are looking at, you know, looking at you as you parent and things like it's hard to have the the kid who is not the good boy or the good girl. And it's also so rewarding in the end. You know, like you have to play the long game.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Were you um a kid? but Were you like shy or follow rules? I was such a good girl. I was no such a good girl. But then I was like secretively a bad girl.
Speaker: Like secretly, like, you know, like my mom all through high school, my mom will always, don't know, is this PC for the podcast? Maybe you'll edit it. But, you know, my mom will always be like Lizzie was allergic to alcohol in high school.
Speaker: And like, I just went with that. You know, like she was always like, Lizzie's such a good girl. Like she threw up because she's allergic to alcohol. You know, like she thought I never drank. She thought I never snuck out. She thought i never did any of the bad things because like I was the good girl.
Speaker: You know, I didn't do the bad girl things. that My other two sisters did the bad things. and like, I was the good girl. But that comes back to bite you in the ass. It really does. Oops, can I curse? Yeah, you can. It's fine. we I started allowing cursing once Rachel was on the podcast. She drops a lot of F-bombs. Okay, good. Okay, good.
Speaker: But yeah, no, I was like the good girl and it was like, it it we like took all of my 20s to like undo it. and like I was literally just going to say my 20s were really hard. Because if you are stuffing down your bad girl, like it's coming out in one way or another. Okay. right good thing Is that I wish that somebody didn't tell me that it was bad girl, that it was like, oh, it's good to be big. Like, right. Literally, I have this book.
Speaker: me see that I can reach it. Big. It is about having like, oh, I love that book. So good. It's not about big personality, but like somebody once got it for me because I like really did think until I was probably like 27 or 28, like the biggest thing in life you can be is like, a wife and a mom and someone that follows the cookie cutter path and like is a good listener and is just a quiet, like women should be quiet and meek. And it's like, do you know what happened when I stopped doing this that is I was able to build this business. I was able to help now 48,000 families that have actually worked with like all these things. It's like, are you kidding me? Who was telling me like, no, be quiet and be a good, like, right. Fit the mold, fit the mold, Beth. Yeah. It didn't work. And you know what I'm going to tell you? Like, it's going to explode at some point. Like it might be when you're 50. It might be when they're eight. yeah It might be when they're 26. Like if it's not fitting, it's not going work.
Speaker: um Okay. So I have two questions for you. Yes. One, you kind of already answered this, is red flag, green flag. Like what is a red flag and a green flag you would say in a classroom or a school? Okay. Okay.
Speaker: Green flag is definitely the schedule, the picture schedule. And, you know, this actually I'm going to steal this from my graduate school um advisor. When I went into my first student teaching, she said the way you'll know that it's a that it is a you know child centered preschool is if you look where the tissue box is. Can the children get a tissue when they need it?
Speaker: Or is it a pie? And you know if they can get it when they need it, you know that's really showing like trust in the child, you know really giving your child the skills to do things themselves. So to me, I'm always looking for the tissue box and the picture schedule and you know things like that, where like the teacher, it's not like teacher down.
Speaker: you know Yeah. I'll make my green flag along with that too. My green flag then for this episode will be if there's inventive spelling um like on the board. like You see yeah kids work. Yes, like on the walls. Yeah. Or if it's if it's before that, it's artwork. So if it looks like every artwork is different or if it looks like every kid does it all the same.
Speaker: like Yes. Are they supposed to follow? Or even i posted this to my Instagram stories and it got a lot of feedback, but but you know, I was somewhere where I saw the bulletin board in a nursery school and like, number one, it was up high. Number two, it was like really pretty, you know, it was like a cutout thing of like spring has sprung or something like that. And I was like,
Speaker: No effect. Like, no I'm not like, but it's like, who is this for? Right? Like, as the teacher, i want you to think about, like, who is this for? The kids can't see it.
Speaker: And if they could, they can't read it. And it doesn't mean anything. And so, like, if I could, I would just move it white down low. And maybe I would put, like, a mirror there and, like, some, like, markers and big paper so they could, like, make their own marks so that they could feel like the school belongs to them. Yeah.
Speaker: You know, like it just, you know, that that's hard, but but I know that's very, you know, traditional and that's what most schools do. So don't feel bad if you do that, but just think about it. Yeah. Okay. So do you have a red flag? My red flag is when people tell the parents to sneak out.
Speaker: It really is because it shows a lack of trust in the child, the parent, and there's like a lack of partnership. To me, that really feels like, okay, get away so I can just do my job the way I need to do my job, whether you're comfortable or not.
Speaker: um And I don't like saying that publicly because I think that a lot of schools do that. And I think, you know, a lot of parents don't have a choice about where they send their kids to school. So that's hard for me to say, but but it's true.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. I guess my red flag then I'll say, since I already said that is a behavior clip chart, but like to go a step different for the people that like don't have a choice, a redder flag would be like teacher or administration that's not open to having a dialogue about why it's upsetting to you.
Speaker: Yes. Also, right. Like I love an open door policy in a director's office, right? I love a director who is warm, and allows parents to feel comfortable and safe just sort of chatting.
Speaker: Yes, agree. Okay, and then my last question is, what are you reading? What am I reading? I am actually reading the new, I don't know if it's new, but it's new to me, the new Elin Hildebrand Nantucket book. oh You don't? it's like you know It's like a whole series and she's retiring and they're making it into a... um Should I have said something smarter? I also just- No, no, no, no. I hate when people say a textbook or like a nonfiction thing. No, it's, um yeah, it's Elin Hildebrand. She's like a you know, like a summer beach read kind of author. And she's written like hundreds of books. And this is her last one. And I believe it's being turned into a Netflix series. And I live in East Coast summer. i live on the North Shore of Boston. And so I love, know, I love books like that.
Speaker: Wait, so what is it called? it's I don't know. It's called like, This is so funny. The person I had on yesterday also was like, I don't know what the book is called. I read so many books. It's called Swan Song that I never know what they're called ever.
Speaker: I don't even know half the time I start reading a book. I'm like, wait, I already read this. Same. Or do you ever like have like a genre like right this summer? I've been reading a lot of Abby Jimenez and Emily Henry. i love them. It's so easy. I could read it in a night. Like, i mean, listen to those when I like do laundry or whatever it is It's just like feel so fun. Did you ever read? I just finished two nights ago. at The friend zone. Did you read that one?
Speaker: I don't know because I never know what the title is. It's about a firefighter. and ah i don't think I did. Oh, that one was good. I love it. I'm going to do that one next. I'll do that one next. Now I sort of want to be with a firefighter. You would look cute with a firefighter. I back it.
Speaker: Wouldn't that be kind of cute? Yeah. Okay. So if any firefighters are listening, you can email me. going to cut that part out maybe. Okay. Well, this has been so amazing. Any final parting words for parents or kids going back to school?
Speaker: I mean, I just want to tell parents like, it's okay if your kid cries and it's okay if they have a hard time and it's okay if they don't. And your child is enough exactly the way they are.
Speaker: And well-behaved babies rarely make history. And also that. Okay. Oh my gosh, you're the best. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me.
