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Jaden Bales
151 Plays1 year ago
Applying out west is never an easy process. This week Drew is joined by hunting and application strategy expert Jaden Bales of www.huntwest.net not only do we solve the point creep issue we also discuss a broad range of subjects about western hunting.
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Transcript
Introduction to Tricer Podcast
00:00:07
Speaker
You are listening to the Tricer podcast, where we talk all things hunting, gear, and the great outdoors. Before we begin, let's start things out right and put God first. Lord Jesus, I thank you for Tricer. And I ask that you can use this podcast as a way to bring joy to all of our listeners. We lay Tricer and this podcast at your feet. Amen.
00:00:31
Speaker
All right, here we go. Another episode of the Tricer podcast.
Meet Jaden Bales from Hunt West
00:00:34
Speaker
This week we got on Jaden Bales from Hunt West. He is also the creative marketing guy for Wyoming Wildlife Foundation and just an all around great dude. We have some connections in the industry and Jaden just knows way more about hunting than I do. So I was like, come on my podcast and tell us all about you and what you're doing and just give us some nuggets, man. Give us some info. So how you doing Jaden?
Jaden's Hunting Journey
00:01:00
Speaker
I'm doing good. Thanks. Yeah. This whole hunting thing has been something I've been super interested, like it's just been part of what I do since I was a kid. It was one of those things I grew up on a farm in like Northeast Oregon and mom would always be like, Hey, don't you want to be a normal kid and sleep in instead of going hunting on Saturday and Sunday morning? And I was like, no, what, why would I do that?
00:01:20
Speaker
So I was lucky I grew up in a place that had a lot of access to getting out and getting after it. And then right after college, I hit up Cody Rich, who some might know from the Rich Outdoors podcast.
00:01:31
Speaker
I was like, Hey man, I think I want to work a little bit in the hunting world. Can I learn from you? And then that was 2016.
About Hunt West: Learning to Hunt
00:01:38
Speaker
Here we are like eight years later and I make a living both in the kind of conservation hunting world and then also do hunt West, which is basically a travel agent service that teaches people how to hunt out West.
00:01:53
Speaker
Yeah, I was looking at your website today. I'm actually really excited to see that because I feel like it's such a beneficial tool for people wanting to come out west and wanting to hunt. And even for me, there's such a learning curve there. Like it's app season right now. And I'm just like a lot sometimes it's hard to research all these states.
00:02:12
Speaker
Especially if you have no idea what you're doing, like my partner Paul, partner Tricer, he's, what do I do here? I have four points in Wyoming. I should go elk hunting. I'm like, you're never going to go elk hunting four points in Wyoming unless you go to some terrible unit. It's just that you, having someone like you to cut that learning curve, it seems like really beneficial. Or even when, let's say you get to like my status where I've got eight to 12 points across the West now.
00:02:36
Speaker
What, how am I going to do?
Hunting Strategies and Regulation Changes
00:02:38
Speaker
What would we do? Not even, you don't even have to tell me what I'm going to do, but like maybe even just about, cause you, where it sounds like it's almost can call you and bounce ideas off of you and be like, dude, what do you think about unit? I'm going to throw in the brother 230 in Colorado. What do you think about that unit? Is something we should, I should hunt 500. Is it going to be access? That's what you're doing. And orchestrating that.
00:02:54
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I have a handful of guys who like are on basically an unlimited plan with me. And so they can just hit me up whenever, and they'll call me up whenever, whenever, and they'll call me up whenever. And also we'll talk through what changes are happening year to year. Dude, that's like the hardest part to keep up with is like, what does Colorado do from one year to the next while Wyoming is changing things here? New Mexico changes this, Utah changes that.
00:03:17
Speaker
And so basically I'm the guy that they pay to have the thumb on the pulse of what's going on in the West. And then you can edit your strategy based on that. Like a guy like you who's sitting in that like, you're in the meat of the point game, right? There's, you can't grab- I'm in no man's land is what I call it. I don't want to be here ever again.
00:03:36
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, you're exactly at the place of like, if you had eight to 10, 12 points in Wyoming for pronghorn, for example, I'm going to be like, dude, you're going to be so disappointed if with what you can draw versus what you could have drawn five years ago. Like it's the same thing. But then if you talk about like deer hunting in Colorado, I'm like, all right, things are getting interesting. So.
00:03:56
Speaker
Yeah, dude, it's a complicated game out there, and it's only getting more complicated. So hopefully I can help clarify some of that stuff by doing the research for guys and then helping teach them what I'm seeing and what I'm making decisions based on.
Challenges and Disappointments in Hunting
00:04:10
Speaker
Gotcha. Yeah, I definitely got screwed in Colorado. I had seven points last year, and I had a 100% draw tag. And then they had the big snow and the snow pack. So they cut the tags after the draw.
00:04:26
Speaker
I didn't draw my tags. That was definitely a bummer. So I had to go and scramble to put, I ended up putting a cow elk hunt together. Because once you get, that's what's one nice thing about having Oregon and Utah in your back pocket is you don't have to, in California, you don't apply for those days till later on. So you cast a big enough net where if you don't draw some of these early stuff, you can know in like May and June, oh crap, I better put in for something. I wouldn't throw Arizona in that pool because Arizona is a lot harder to draw. Like I think I have nine points and that thing's just creeping like crazy.
00:04:56
Speaker
But it's nice to have a game plan because yeah, so someone like you, it'd be great to be like, Jaden, my life is ending. I'm screwed. That's how I felt when you didn't draw that tag. When you have a 100% draw out hunt, you're just like, I'm going hunt. I did it in September. It was a September high country mule deer hunt. So I basically threw elk away and said, I'm going on this hunt. I want to go on this high country mule deer hunt.
00:05:20
Speaker
And I didn't draw. So basically, I had to scramble to get a hunt together. So you're the kind of guy I can be like, hey, Jane, what do I do?
00:05:28
Speaker
Yep. A hundred percent, man. And that happens. Oh, so for good. It happened to me early on in this game. Yeah. It happened to me in high school when I was trying to draw the deer tag outside my backyard, but it also then happened later. I was doing the Colorado game and I was like, Oh, this was 86% with two points. I should have a pretty good chance of drawing this. And then that year I didn't draw. It was like 17% with two points. I was like, Oh, dang it. I missed it by one. I'll get it next year.
00:05:53
Speaker
Now I'm six years later and I still haven't caught that unit. It is crept up that much every year. So hopefully, just like what you're talking about, we can learn from some of those lessons. And then unfortunately, like in a lot of cases, guys will have to swallow their pride a little bit and hunt units that they could have hunted last year or the year before. But dude, this is just the name of the game.
Finding Hidden Hunting Spots
00:06:13
Speaker
You got to drop down a lot of times.
00:06:15
Speaker
A lot of times though that if you do some good research, you'll find out like, oh, that hunt that I passed on or didn't know about in previous years, it's going to be just as good as the one that I was maybe looking at. And sometimes and oftentimes I'd say those ones that like are creeping out, it's probably because there's some magazines out there or some filtering services that are putting a lot of bull's eyes on that thing, but takes a lot more legwork and it takes a lot more
00:06:40
Speaker
attention to detail, but I think when you're stepping outside all of those services, you can find what fits you. Because for instance, if you've got good legs, man, the world is your oyster right now because a lot of people are still stuck in that old school mentality of, I want really good road access and I want good access to big animals from the road systems. You're like, oh, no wonder this XY unit in Colorado has such hard to draw all the deer right next to the road and it's easy to hunt.
00:07:10
Speaker
Whereas you look at something that's like a little bit tougher, it's got big wilderness, it's got tough dates, whatever the case is, those are some diamonds in the rough. I think that's the fun part about doing it is like you turn up little gems. You got to always like when you're turning up gems, you also have to take into consideration the fact that it could be a stinker. That's kind of part of it. And it also comes with if you're trying to find a diamond in the rough,
00:07:32
Speaker
You go in with a better plan knowing that you can't be lazy. You can't just like stroll in and just expect there to just be a giant this that or the other thing like around every tree. You roll in with a good plan and you like execute like A to Z every day. You're up early. You're doing it right. And those are I think when you end
Expectations and Realities in Hunting
00:07:51
Speaker
up with like really good experiences when you didn't expect them.
00:07:55
Speaker
Yeah, even with the best plan too, it can just get blown apart by weather and different things too. It was expectations. I know everyone assumes like third season Colorado, I'm going to shoot the biggest buck. I have a really good friend who's one of my hunting partners and he is an incredible hunter. Dude, he drew this tag third season last year and the snow was so bad that the deer pushed off of his unit. They ended up seeing like two mule deer the entire hunt, miserable time.
00:08:22
Speaker
It was like two foot of snow. It was just like, and they were just going out there. You never drive to a hunt. I think I said this recently. You never, you never drive into a hot like.
00:08:31
Speaker
I'm probably not going to shoot a buck. You're always driving the hunt, 180 buck. Here I come. And then like day five, you're like, he's brown. You got to have these high expectations. You always think it's going to be, at the end of the day, it's hunting, right? And at the end of the day, some freaking dude can roll out of his side by side and shoot a 220 inch buck on any unit in Colorado.
00:08:54
Speaker
You just, I think that you have to stack everything in your favor as much as possible. Do the research, do the e-scouting, do the on the ground scouting, pack in, do all that. And then there's always this, I don't know what percentage you'd put on it, but there's always this percentage of the animal has to do the right thing. It's a little bit of luck there.
00:09:13
Speaker
and the weather has to play right for you too. It's tough. It reminds me though of like high school sports or whatever. And when like the coach used to say, you got to control the controllables and you got to go in with the right attitude and like the right expectations of I'm going to throw it. I'm going to leave it all out on the field is what they used to say. And those are the types of things like you can do that and still have a lot of fun if you're prepared for it, especially if you're
00:09:38
Speaker
hunting partners are prepared for it. That's, that's a different variable, but yeah, you gotta choose wisely and also have really, you can't sandbag. I'm so guilty of this. You can't sandbag someone be like, Oh, it's going to be really easy for this, that, and the other thing you roll in and.
00:09:54
Speaker
just get punched in the mouth, you got to be like, look, this is going to be tough and we're going to grind it out. And probably the final hour, the final day, we might see the thing that we're looking for. I had a, and I grew up in the Mount Emily unit in Eastern Oregon, which is one of the big three, like really hard to draw elk tags. And do I swear it was every single time someone drew that tag, they would go out there thinking that they're going to find this giant bowl around every tree. And they just got their butts handed to them.
00:10:23
Speaker
And then a couple of years ago, I had the great fortune. I've been looking at the buck right now, but I had the great fortune of getting a landowner tag in Nevada for this unit that takes 18, 20 points to draw. I knew from talking to other license holders that it was going to be a bear, but I was like, I'll probably see a bunch of deer and then have to pass these little bucks. Dude.
00:10:43
Speaker
the third or fourth buck that I saw was the one I killed on day four. And I was like, Oh my God, I'm glad that this didn't take me 20 years to come do this. Right. Cause this was, we were in the middle of a drought and there was no snow. And as soon as we got some snow, then beer got up and started moving and stuff. But it was tough, man. And I think that those are the variables that you just can't like, unless you're going in with a really good game plan, you're going in with the expectation that if
00:11:09
Speaker
you're going to have a good game plan until you get punched in the mouth, right? Like those are the types of, you got to set your mindset up for that man. Otherwise it can be miserable. And that's when you really get into pissing matches at the camp or whatever, where people are just like really frustrated with the hunt they're having.
00:11:26
Speaker
Yeah, mentally you just have to be prepared for that too. I think if you're always thinking, I'm just gonna, there's something about it though. Like when you're traveling, you feel like you're traveling 10 hours or whatever it is to get to the unit. Obviously it's gonna be way easier than hunting where I hunt. Obviously there's gonna be deer everywhere, right? Obviously there's gonna be elk just like running up to my bow. I don't know what it is about our mindset. And maybe I'm just kind of a half class, half fall kind of person anyways in general, but you do need to have that mindset. Like you're going in this for an experience.
00:11:54
Speaker
not for a kill, right? And I think it's where I am in my, I don't wanna say career, hunting career, is I love the experience. I love the backpacking, I love the sucky parts, I love getting wet, whatever it is, I love that type two fun, and I love thinking about it the rest of the year. But if I just wanna kill giant stuff, I'll just go fly to freaking Texas and go shoot a buck. When you're going into a public land unit, I don't care how good the unit is,
00:12:21
Speaker
Maybe the strip, maybe I'll give it that one, you're going to have a grind and you're going to have to work for it. There's also small deer in that unit. Probably way, actually, there are way more small deer in the unit and way more does in the unit than there are giant bucks. Might be a little more big bucks in the unit, but you still have to.
00:12:39
Speaker
find him and kill him, and they didn't get big by being stupid. Yeah. One of my Huntless clients had a strip tag last year, archery season. Really? And it was super fun to follow along with him. I mean, it was one of those, it's just exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. And when he was scouting, he was finding these giant deer and that's all fun and it's all fine and dandy.
00:12:57
Speaker
He was all pumped. Then he rolls out there. And the first thing you notice is, oh, there's dudes on every glassing knob that he had been glassing from in scouting season. And now you've got to work out the human element of like, how do you kill one of these things with other people trying to kill it too? And do you stay, do you go? Oh man. And that, those kinds of challenges, that's what makes it fun though. I just, if it was just a chip shot every time, like you said, it would just be a different thing.
00:13:24
Speaker
Yeah. Arizona is a whole other animal that comes to that guided stuff on those units. Like those guys, they know that unit in and out and they might have four or five guides on one, one hunter in radios and calling them in. Like it is competitive. They did get rid of cameras, but these guys still know where they are. Someone was telling me recently that if you find like an Arizona, you could sell animals, like not the physical animal, but let's say you go out there and you find a 420 bull.
00:13:53
Speaker
you can then sell that pin for like 20 or 25 grand. I believe it. People will pay for that pin for that animal is, hey, I've got this, whatever, I've got this sheep. They say you find the governor's sheep, 40 grand, and you're just refining it. So there's guys who actually make a career of just finding them. So it's crazy. I was also hearing some, yeah, there's some loopholes too with people will, non-resident guys will somehow partner into the resident pool with residents.
00:14:22
Speaker
And they'll use their point saver to get tags and they'll pay them to do that. Yeah. So they'll be like, Hey, I'll pay you 15 grand, Jayden, you have 15 points to get point saver. Draw me that tag and then kill this bull. So as someone who's telling me this guy drew like four out of the last five years, it's non resonance, Toronto bull tag by doing that,
Wyoming's Hunting Regulations
00:14:44
Speaker
by just paying these guys off to use their points and do it.
00:14:47
Speaker
So yeah, I believe it. Well, and that's why, and that's why there's so many changes year to year when you're looking at how things play out. Wyoming's looking at, we just made a handful of changes to the way elk is run in Wyoming and the special pricing in Wyoming.
00:15:03
Speaker
But what they're looking at now is like changes to the landowner system. If you're a landowner in Wyoming who owns 160 acres, you've been used to getting your tag every year, you might be looking at some changes coming down the pipeline. And then you might end up seeing some like conversations about whether or not you can buy and sell tags here because like states like Nevada, Colorado, Utah, you can buy and sell licenses,
Economics of Hunting
00:15:24
Speaker
but like Wyoming and Arizona, you can't. And those things are always, it's just always in a constant like state of change when it comes from year to year.
00:15:32
Speaker
Dude, it's exhausting to keep up with when you're talking about like the game being that expensive to play, right? Like you're talking guys who are willing to drop more on a hunt than a brand new diesel pickup. Like there's some real money to be made in it and people are going to lean into it and find ways around. Yeah. I heard something too random that you can, there's guys who have got caught poaching.
00:16:00
Speaker
I don't know what the truth is to this. I don't even know if I should go into it. They got caught poaching in Arizona. So they already lost their hunting license for five years. So they can run trail cameras because they're not hunting. So they've got these guys who are making money by running trail cameras since they got caught poaching and they can now run. So there's some loophole because now they can run trail cameras because they're not hunting and they're just getting the pictures.
00:16:20
Speaker
I wouldn't be surprised by that because there was like with the intent to hunt is like trail cameras with the intent to hunt, right? Because you're a poacher. Yeah. Dang, man. That's a lot of people like to jump on the bandwagon of
00:16:35
Speaker
of crapping on the game and fish agencies. And certainly they deserve a lot of it. I also don't want to be in their position either. Like I'm not, you're, I'm, I ain't volunteering to be a warden man or someone trying to enforce those laws. Like it is so tough. Like it would be damn tough. And yeah, there.
00:16:52
Speaker
That's a whole different conversation probably about how game and fish agencies are managed and run state to state. But I think it goes back to this theme. It gets complicated. And if you're expecting to try to hunt from one state to another, not just your home state, you can get in a pickle pretty quick if you're not paying attention. Oh, yeah. Very quickly. Very different roles everywhere you go, whether it be Hunter's Orange or Muzzle Utters or Scopes.
00:17:15
Speaker
Everything changes. Can you use expandable broadheads or fixed blade broadheads? Every state is different. Speaking of state agencies and draws, you're from Wyoming.
00:17:28
Speaker
Why did you guys screw me? And why are you guys going down to 10% like what is the, what is reasoning behind you guys? I have seven points up there and all of a sudden you guys change the rules on me. Okay. Just to clarify, just to clarify what you're talking about. So there was like, there's been a big push the last four or five years to go to away from the 80 20 split on deer and pronghorn it's 86 or 84 16 on elk.
00:17:55
Speaker
and move it to 90-10 split. So 90% of the licenses go to residents, 10% go to non-residents. It used to be also 75% of the Moose sheep goat applications would go to residents and 25% went to non-residents. So you have all these different things.
00:18:14
Speaker
What happened, what ended up passing was moose sheep and goat in bison went from 75-25 split to a 90-10 split, but they haven't touched deer, elk, and pronghorn yet. I don't know if they will or not. It seemed that was the compromise that everyone came up with in this like, they had a wildlife task force that they created. And that seemed like the compromise that they went with was 90-10 on the moose sheep goat, the big ones, and then just keep it the same on deer, elk, and
00:18:43
Speaker
Now this is just my opinion, right? This is just, this is the opinion of one man, no organization, but when you're dealing with the state with the fewest amount of residents in the entire union, it doesn't hurt my feelings to have an 80-20 split on some of these things. So that's my personal opinion on it. But yeah, that was what they ended up doing. And like you mentioned though, it definitely made it, it's made it real hard for a non-resident to want to be in the draw system for moose or sheep for especially.
00:19:11
Speaker
Because in that point system, you've got a couple of tags here for the top end point holders to take. But there's, I think, one moose tag and one sheep tag that are random in the entire state. So if you don't have maximum preference points, you're all fighting for one random tag. And boy, the odds are so long on those. I couldn't justify, if I wasn't near the top of the point level, I couldn't justify to someone who's a non-resident to apply in Wyoming every year for those two species.
00:19:41
Speaker
Yeah. It's just, there's this weird thing with everyone. I know there's like this go hunt effect, right? And everyone's going out of state. But the people don't like non-residents come into their state. I was, I went to a hundred Eastern Oregon or by Hell's Canyon and multiple, multiple people told me like, Hey, California place, be careful. You're going to slash your tires. It didn't happen. No, everyone was super quiet. I've never met a hunter in the field who was like, yeah, maybe there's one or two. He was like a total dickhead. I met one guy who like.
00:20:09
Speaker
I gave him a peace sign. He thought I flipped him off. He tried to fight me with my kids. It was fun. But I was Utah. Way to go, Utah. But non-residents are so beneficial to Wyoming's fishing game system, right? Like you said, you have the smallest populace in the country. Granted, I've also heard that I think it's some stupid number. Like 80% of you guys have hunted in some way, shape, or form. It's a high percentage, yeah. High percentage of you guys have hunted, which is awesome, right? You'd never see that in California.
00:20:39
Speaker
But keep in mind, you guys, like I'm paying for like that special, I think the special elk tag is over 1300 bucks up there. I can't remember what it is. It's crazy. We just increased it from 1300 to $2,000. $2,000. So if I draw a special elk hunt in your unit, it's going to pay, it costs me $2,000. What are you paying as a resident? I think it's 62. 62 bucks, right? We're paying another 9,200 bucks to help you guys, help your guys's game population, right?
00:21:09
Speaker
And not only that, I've been putting money in up there for eight years and I've never drawn a single tag. I'm just giving you money every single year. So to try and disincentivize that is crazy because a lot of, most guys aren't going to Wyoming every year. It's just not happening. Like we're just putting in for that. We're just all putting in for it and giving you our money. And then not even, I won't even apply in the draw for Wyoming this year. I don't think I might look at it. I think it's the next couple of days. I just buy the points in September
00:21:38
Speaker
every year and just keep building my points up. Eventually, I'm going to go up there. I want to go to Pronghorn. I've never killed a Pronghorn, so I want to go do that at some point. I think one of the things that-
00:21:48
Speaker
One of the things that like every, not every, a lot of the people who are really anti non-resident seems like they don't put themselves in the perspective of the fact that they're a non-resident everywhere else too. Like I'm over here. So a good example. And I moved away from Eastern Oregon where I grew up and 3% of all pronghorn tags are given to non-residents.
00:22:11
Speaker
I'm over here. Dude, I never, I don't really have a chance at hunting a pronghorn in the state I was born in or whatever as a non-resident and that kind of sucks. I don't, I don't particularly like that. I think it'd be cool if one day I could get out there and do it and I'm going to try, right? Like maybe it happens because I'm started early enough in the game. I could probably catch it eventually, but yeah, putting yourself in the shoes of a Fura non-resident somewhere, it's brutal.
00:22:36
Speaker
Yeah. And I hope it would be really nice if a lot of those same people who are in the non-residents in Wyoming or any other state, right? This isn't just a Wyoming specific issue. This is happening in every state. The folks who are most vocal, I would love it if they went and hunted a different state one time, right? Or even once a year, because then they would get the opportunity to see what it's like on the other side. The fact of the matter is most of those folks, I think are just disgruntled about their lack of
00:23:06
Speaker
opportunity, maybe lack of day as a field or like whatever it is and they're just like finding or lack of their success and they're trying to find things to blame it on. Dude, 90% of those dudes are in such bad shape. They can't get out of the side by side hike after anything. So there's no plan. There's no animals there. I'm yet to meet
00:23:25
Speaker
Like, nah, I shouldn't say. I just still look like a Utah guy. But we were in Arizona this year. I met so many hunters, and not one of them was like a total dickhead. Like, we were helping each other. Hey, here's this. I met these guys. Like, I ended up cracking my front differential and popping a tire on my truck. And I bought one of those, like, star wrenches from Walmart, and it broke. It was like, I bought it. I was like, I need to have a star wrenches on my truck. But I had a jack, all this stuff. I always pop tires. It just happened. You go, honey, you're going to pop tires.
00:23:54
Speaker
So I'm out here in the middle of nowhere with my kid and these guys come rolling by and walking by our camp and I'm just telling him like, Oh, you know what? I've got a star wrench in my truck and he goes and gets his brand new Raptor, brings it up there. And then he does that. We get my tire off my truck and get my truck fixed. And it turns out he forgot his range finder. So I'm like, Hey, why don't you take my extra range finder and you can mail it back to me. So I gave him this range finder and he mailed it back. You know, we have this relationship.
00:24:20
Speaker
We're talking to each other outside of the hunt. It's the same thing. We met some archery hunters. They had the tag before us. They gave us all the dinner where they're hunting because like they want to see success. I think it's so important as hunters that we don't like, Oh, you non-residents or Wyoming guys come into Montana or whatever. Like we're too small to be self eating ourselves, right? We need to be working together, not tearing each other down.
00:24:46
Speaker
Yup. Yup. I was just in a, I'm trying to be a hunter's ed instructor and was doing a course last week and the guy who's been teaching it forever, his, he was talking about man back in the day, it was usually really easy. It used to be easy because we had 10% of the world where hunters 10% were anti hunters. And then there was 80% in the middle.
00:25:04
Speaker
And he still teaches the classes such, but he's, dude, we're down to 6% of the world, of the US population, or even less, depending on the, like where you live. And he's just talking about 6%, like what do you, you're working with the entire rest of the world that got the opportunity to be an anti or to be pro hunting and everything you guys do could sway someone's opinion in that way when you're acting with them.
00:25:29
Speaker
And so I totally agree with you. It's like you walk out there and you see somebody else doing the same thing you are. It's, man, I want to see them do well too. But it also comes from the place of, I think it comes from this place of confidence or like not being so guarded about if they shoot something, then they're shooting the one that I could get. Like you got to be happy for someone and also acknowledge that there's plenty for the people who are out there and you're just going to hunt differently or you're going to hunt harder or you're going to do some
00:25:57
Speaker
or lady luck is either on or not on your side.
Cooperation Among Hunters
00:26:00
Speaker
You got to just accept what that gives you. Yeah, I've had stuff with my kids. Another Utah hunt where people have seen me going after an animal, not seeing the animal, and ran up the ridge and bumped the animals because they're watching me because they just, there must be an animal going over there and they've ruined my hunt. It's funny you say that because the only Utah people I've run into in Wyoming, they
00:26:23
Speaker
They're not, they weren't supposed to be in the wilderness, but they saw me and a friend of mine and I moving on a buck that he ended up killing. He say, saw us running and there's, you can see the wilderness boundary between us. And so then those guys, they see us moving to kill these deer and then they move over there right above the deer and we're laying there prone pointed at this deer and they pop out on the ridge above the deer looking down at us. And I'm like.
00:26:47
Speaker
What are these idiots doing? We were laid down, pointing the rifle in their direction, and then they pop over the ridge looking down at us to see what we were doing. Stop that. Stop doing that. What other people have- Exact situation we had. Oh, really? Exact situation. It must be like a Utah tactic. They learn some tasty deer drives. Utah just chases the guys who are running after deer. I love Utah. You guys hunt awesome. Don't send me death threats.
00:27:15
Speaker
Yeah, same thing when we were like on this, my kids all this year, it was day seven of our hunt. I glassed up, finally found another good bowl, six by six bowl, and I'm like, let's go. And we're going after this bowl and we come over this ridge and there's a dude sitting there glassing.
00:27:33
Speaker
And he's, I have a thousand yards to go, but I'm gonna have to drop down on this canyon to go over to get to this bowl. And I'm like, oh, it's a man. And I'm like, yeah, I could see, he could see he wasn't trying to, he was trying not to say something to me. I'm like, hey, are you on an elk? He said, dude, I'm on three elk. And I'm like, I got a bowl over here. And I was just like, you know what? I'm looking at my kid. This is my kid's, he's 15. I'm like, you know what, dude? Like, I will, I'll sit down for you in glass for you and walk you into this bowl.
00:28:00
Speaker
He's like, what? You don't want to kill it? I'm like, no, man. Like you found it. I'm not going to go shoot your bull off from underneath you or go after this thing. So I ended up walking him into these bulls. He didn't blow on the stock. He didn't listen to me, but I got him within 300 yards of these elk. He didn't kill one.
00:28:15
Speaker
That's the kind of stuff that we need is to be supporting each other and helping each other like that. Because like I was other by himself, we're on this crazy Canyon with Rimrock. He's probably gonna make the stock on his own. Having someone to walk him into it really, he could have walking into it. It's a little very helpful, especially that kind of eight or eight or nine AM bowl. It's a little bit mobile. I suppose I found a place to bed down.
00:28:37
Speaker
but that's something that guy is going to now carry into his next time. Right. And then my kids going to carry into his, it's like, we want to be helping each other, not fighting each other. I think it's so important. Yeah, absolutely. And I think part of it, you come like you see another hunter afield and I think everyone remembers the bad situations or like the bad interactions, but I don't think that they, I really don't think that they outweigh the good ones by a long shot. My brother and I were elk hunting in Eastern Oregon and
00:29:04
Speaker
a couple years ago and we glass these bulls up from deep, like three miles away, we saw these bulls in the wilderness and I was like, oh boy, this is gonna be a haul. So we load our packs up and we start heading down the trail and just, we didn't realize that there's people just a little ways away from us glassing up the same elk.
00:29:22
Speaker
And we stopped and we talked to him. We're like, did you guys see those bulls? They're like, yeah, we saw those bulls. And I was like, are you going to go after them? They're like, no way in hell we're going after them too far. And I was like, oh, sweet. Well, we're going to do that then. They're like, good luck, man. Bring a fork. They were like, you guys are going to have to eat them when you kill them to get it out.
00:29:43
Speaker
Anyway, but yeah, it's those experiences though. And then we ran into them later and got a picture. They did find a bull a little closer. That was really nice. And they killed it by the end of the season. And it just like that type of camaraderie you build by just like BSing with somebody as you're walking down the trail is, it just goes back to the same conversation that you're having about the dude that had your star wrench in their after, right? Like those are, end up being good buddies or end up being really good acquaintances regardless.
00:30:09
Speaker
Yeah, don't be an assholes, go along with the hunting industry. That's for sure. Dude, I'll tell you what I hunted Eastern Oregon. And that was the toughest terrain I've ever hunted in my life. Like it was gnarly. I swear I felt like I was rock climbing out of some of these canyons I went into. I had no idea that it was that gnarly. And it's one of those things where like OnX and Google Maps do not do that place justice.
00:30:37
Speaker
Those canyons are unreal. Man, and you talk about a place where you can get in over your waders. I had a Huntless client of mine shot a bear in some of that country that you're hunting. And unfortunately, it took him too long to get his bear out, and he lost half of it. And he was just absolutely wrecked. I mean, he was physically super hurt. And so yeah, a lot of that country, you got to be real calculated in what you're going to do.
00:31:04
Speaker
There's an element there, you've got the yin and the yang, but you can't be afraid to send it if you've got the physical ability to do it. But if you're getting yourself in too deep, it's too warm, and you're not going to do this on justice if you just go too far, you got to weigh that out. It's tough, man. But yeah, some of that country in Eastern Oregon, definitely underrated for how gnarly it can be. It's just deeper in heck.
00:31:29
Speaker
I think it's a five-day hunt over there. Afternoon of day four, I found a bull.
00:31:37
Speaker
And it was like a miles to crow flies, but like a three mile hike. And I just didn't think it through. Like I should have brought a sleeping bag. So we get over there and set up on this bowl. It never came out. And I'm like, well, we've got one day left. I'm not hiking back. We're just going to spend the night out here and we're going to make a fire. We did this really cool spot, like almost like a chimney type rock we made a fire in. Dude, freezing. When you don't have a sleeping bag and it's in the twenties or whatever it was, teens, no fire.
00:32:06
Speaker
It was so cold and we ended up getting a lot of sparks. I ended up ruining puffy's ruining my buddy's rain gear. Uh, you just know how it is. It just, just trying to keep warm. We, we must've burnt down the entire mountain. We luckily run into truth when her dead fall. We burnt it. When we first got there, it was covered and we left. It was like cleaned out, like a garden recommend and clean days. We burned so much wood that night. I've done that a few times. I'll sleep out here and it is cold. It was cold every time.
00:32:34
Speaker
Well, it's a cool story now looking back and we got the next morning and I set up on that bowl and he never came out. So all for nothing. I always say if you give a hot air of a thing, I'll never regret it. Yeah, exactly. There's a reason why success rates are 20%. It means four out of the five guys getting kill something's going there and think you're always going to be a hundred percent successful is not a realistic thing to think. So sometimes you're not. Absolutely. Sometimes you miss or sometimes they zig and zag.
00:33:04
Speaker
Oh, it feels like every hunt that happens, man, some way, shape or form. But like you said, though, like those are some of the best stories. It's again, now within safety reasons, listen, all of the times I've gotten myself into a pickle have been some of my favorite stories. I like to tell her on the campfire later. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So Wyoming wildlife foundation, what is that? Is that conservation?
00:33:30
Speaker
Yeah.
Role of Wyoming Wildlife Federation
00:33:31
Speaker
And it just, it is the Federation. Everyone mixes those up. Don't worry. It's a common thing. We were founded in 37 to like, so back in the day, right? Like we were game and fish agencies were getting started in the early 1900s and they were having to hire their first like wardens and stuff to be like, Hey guys, like
00:33:49
Speaker
We don't have any animals. You can't really just shoot the first one on sight or else there is not going to be any left. And so the Federation was started to basically be like the go between between the newly developed agency and the public who were like, okay, guys.
00:34:06
Speaker
don't just smoke every meal to your dough you see when you go driving around cutting firewood or whatever, right? So that evolved to be like the conservation work it is today where we're working on habitat, we're working on educating people still, and we're doing a bunch of policy and legislative work too. So we're a 501c3, so we're not supporting candidates or we're not making any sort of election like
00:34:32
Speaker
and he has election educational stuff. It's all based on after everyone's gone to the legislature, we're wanting good bills to come through and bad bills not to. Yeah, it's pretty in depth. We've got a bunch of spokes to this wheel that is the Federation. There's a little bit of something for everybody, but because it's focused just in Wyoming and just Wyoming hunters and anglers in the state that is the least populated in the union, I think it's a good cause. It seems like you've been around for almost 100 years now,
00:35:01
Speaker
Uh-huh. You guys are also like now in connection with other groups as well, right? We talked a little bit about BHA earlier and then also like some bear alliances. And so you guys get to actually have some influence over other spaces or do you partner their spaces or is that just you personally? Yeah. So you think about like people, I'm not going to, anyway, you think about all the different species specific organizations, Mealy Fanatic Foundation, or you've got American Bear Foundation, RMEF.
00:35:29
Speaker
We'll work with them to execute like local projects because like the national organization can only know so much about the local what's happening on the ground locally. A good example, like we do a fence pole project with the RMEF chapter here in lander every year. We, like I was just telling you, we work with American bear foundation to raise money for those guys. And we just did that banquet last weekend. It was super fun. A lot of beer was drank that weekend. And, but on, and on top of that, we'll.
00:35:55
Speaker
one thing that's really of high importance to people right now is what's happening with mule deer in Wyoming and across the West for that matter. We'll work with mule fanatics, and this is something I was actually working on today a little bit, was how can we put together some good habitat projects so that the next time that we have a harsh winter, that those deer have some forage to get to when the snow piles up.
00:36:17
Speaker
That's like a, a bitter brush planting project that we're going to get doing with those guys. That was really preliminary. I don't even know if I got to work out the details of what that eventually looks like. But those are the things that we get to work on and are pretty fun, especially from like the hunting and angling angle. It's in five, 10 years, you might be able to be hunting on or fishing on this like thing that this project we did and, or the project we helped fund. So that's pretty cool. Yeah. So.
Conservation Efforts for Mule Deer
00:36:44
Speaker
speak to that speak to the mule deer thing because it is getting you'd have to be blind to not see how hard it's getting to draw mule deer tech it's getting harder and harder to draw tag units that used to take two points three points or now eight points it's creeping like crazy and it's not just a harsh winner
00:37:02
Speaker
right? And I tell people all the time to this was a harsh winter last year, doesn't mean we're not gonna have another one this year or the year after, right? And it takes four years for a buck three and a half to five and a half years to become a mature buck. So we're not gonna all of a sudden just next year be great. So speak to that is it
00:37:19
Speaker
Do you think it's only the harsh winter? Or do you think it's also just everyone putting in? Because things are creeping like crazy. I equate it more to just more guys are applying since COVID. But I don't know. I just want something to blame. But speak to that. Speak to this creep. Because if you're in the point game, you notice it.
00:37:36
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. And one of the things that you'll notice, and this is going to show my bias here, we're really quick to cut tags or to reduce opportunity because it feels like it's the easiest lever to pull.
00:37:51
Speaker
instead of grinding it out for a couple of years or whatever. Because a lot of times what's happening is mother nature is causing some reductions in populations or whatever the case might be. And then we all want to blame somebody for doing it, even though hunting for the way that we hunt across the West, especially for mule deer, is very much like we are, our hunting success is reflective of what the population is doing, not the other way around.
00:38:19
Speaker
We're not killing very many does and they don't, and bucks don't have babies, basically how that works. So what you end up seeing is like a small number of those deer. We don't kill, we're not killing tons of deer. Yeah. Utah just, there's some recent data that says Utah is killing like 17% of the bucks. Like in a given year. And that's really conservative. Wyoming is close to that, depending on what unit you're looking at and stuff, but.
00:38:44
Speaker
It's basically, yeah, we're just plucking a little percentage out every year. But like what you're seeing with a lot of that point creep is basically just a ton fewer licenses. So a good example, I just wanted to pull this up while we're talking about it. Back in 2019 in Wyoming, so that was basically, we don't know the license numbers for 2024 yet, but 2019 licenses were three years ago. There were 26,000 non-resident licenses sold.
00:39:11
Speaker
In 2022, there was 20,000. So you're talking like a 20% reduction in licenses sold.
00:39:19
Speaker
and no decrease in the applicants. So that is, that is of itself is where the non-resident situation and residents in a lot of these states where there's limited quota stuff. So I'm not following it. So it went down. Oh, you sold, so the same amount of applicants, but less tags were available. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So it's a supply and demand deal. Yeah. Supply and demand. You guys are cutting it back more up there, but every state's kind of doing that. It's feel like it's, everyone's protecting their own. I think it's like,
00:39:49
Speaker
Everyone realizes that they really screwed up with the points and they're trying to find a band-aid for it somehow. And just the more we try and fix it, the worse it gets. I would agree with that. And it happens for every state and for every agency, uh, who, who implements it, they go so far has been like, Oh shoot, like the top end of this is it's on runaway train. Like I showed up in Wyoming just a handful of years ago, but already had done the math of I'm not going to be able to.
00:40:18
Speaker
ever hunt a sheep on a preference point tag. Cause I'd never beat point creep. And I was like in my mid twenties when I rolled into town. Yeah. The mathematics just don't work when you're talking about such low supply and such crazy high demand. It's one of those things where you're talking about as a non-resident, even these medium to like lower point units. Like if it's one of the things I talk about guys, and I consult on this all the time.
00:40:44
Speaker
hunt something that right now you can hunt every single year because in five years, it's going to take two or three years to hunt it again. And so that's where you're looking at this long-term strategy of, okay, so I might be in Colorado as a great example of this. It's okay. You're going to hunt a second season mediocre unit this year. I went in five, six years. You're going to be happy you learned it because that's going to be the only one you can draw or like the only one you can draw regularly. Um,
00:41:12
Speaker
Unfortunately, I don't see, unless we have a massive recession again, I don't see this going the other direction, but it is worth noting that in the last, in the great recession, like Idaho,
00:41:23
Speaker
wasn't selling out of their non-resident tax. There wasn't enough people buying those licenses. And that's why they made it possible for residents to buy a second deer elk tag is because they weren't selling out to non-residents. So it can go the other direction. It took the great recession to cause it. We'll see if in the micro anything like that changes, but there's no indication that it will.
00:41:48
Speaker
Idaho is a great example of me feeling it. We went and bought tags in March of 2020 and went and hunted elk and mule deer. Now it's like a 25,000 person waiting list to even try to get those tags. It's just a great example of just what the heck happened. All right, so you get to be God for a day. No, I got it.
00:42:11
Speaker
The overall game commissioner for every state, like the president of the game commissioners, we made this title. Okay. How do you, like gun to your head, you got to make a decision. What do you do when it comes to points? What do you do right now? How do you fix it?
Reforming Hunting Point Systems
00:42:30
Speaker
Oh, screw everybody.
00:42:32
Speaker
The one way that I think would be the best way to screw everybody fairly would be to convert points to like a bonus point structure in Nevada system. Because then you still reward people for having been in the system for a long time, but you still give people on the lower end a chance. I think that's one of the only ways forward for the matured point systems because
00:43:01
Speaker
Otherwise, it's just not really a great way of phasing it out. I know Wyoming's, for example, is talking about this with their moose and cheap programs, because it's getting to the same place. And everyone who's in the next five to 10 years going to draw hates it, because they're like, I'm not going to be guaranteed. But you got to realize also 90% of the applicants are 10 years or more out from drawing. And it's
00:43:25
Speaker
The other piece of this is, and you mentioned it when we're talking about this, minority of humans who are hunters, how discouraging is it to be a kid right now or to be a young adult who's getting into hunting, looking at the point system that's matured ahead of you to think that you could ever draw one of those licenses? If you're sub 25 years old, the odds are very long that you would ever have a moose
00:43:50
Speaker
a sheep, a mountain goat license in any of these point units or at least any point states. I guess that would probably be the wagon I hitch myself to if I was commissioner for a day on those preference points. Yeah. I'm going to tell you what I would do if I was king commissioner. I'm going to call it king commissioner because this is a dictatorship, not a democracy. Let's hear it. In Utah, I'm going to get to that in one second, Utah,
00:44:18
Speaker
If you're a kid and you start putting in for the Poncegon right now, it's over a hundred years to draw that tag. Even though it's a 28 year tag or 22 year, whatever it is, 25 year tag right now, it's over a hundred years. You should put my kids in for right now. And I think like me, I'm King for King commissioner. I don't, it doesn't matter. Do whatever I want. I'm going to come in and just turn every state into New Mexico or Idaho. Right. Idaho. And I'm going to say, you know what? Get over it.
00:44:48
Speaker
We've got to get these kids hunting. We've got to help them. I'm sorry that we built these points. I don't know. Maybe we can do some kind of a buyback thing. I don't know. It will give you your money back. I don't know what that would cost us to do that, but hey, you paid $15 a year. You never drew for 20 years. Okay. It's going to cost us 300 bucks. You're 300 bucks back. Sorry. I didn't put in for points, but we've got to fix this problem.
00:45:11
Speaker
What are they going to do? Kill me? I'm king commissioner. They can't kill me. That's right. That's right. I honestly think though, like that actually is, I didn't, I maybe live in this world where I don't think that it would be possible right now, but I actually think you're right. That's the best answer. For sure. I don't know if you can even litigate it. If you were to go and do, let's say you got the States that really the high point States that people really want to put in for and be like, air, I think Arizona, right? If you want the strip tag, one bull tag.
00:45:39
Speaker
I think they want that 18A pronghorn tag. Same thing with Nevada. They had these guys put in for a long time. But if you did it in states like California, that one's going to care. Colorado, you got it every year. Man, it didn't really kill you. I guess some of the L-cons, it's not that big of a deal to just make it random. Even if you're a guy who has 20 points, you're never going to catch that creep at 28.
00:46:04
Speaker
So it's really only screwing that top tier. And everyone else gets a chance to hunt now. And you can now draw a Poncegun tag next year. Or I would love that. Cause then I'm putting it for units and no one else put an import. Cause everyone's putting it for the great units. They can have a chance, but yeah, I look at, I look at states like.
00:46:21
Speaker
Arizona, my goal is on the Kybab, and you can draw a late rifle, or early rifle Kybab tag at eight points. And now it's 12. And then actually it'll be 13. It's just gone up, and now I'm sitting at 10 points. Like, what the hell do I do? And I'm like, I'll draw an archery tag. Even the archery tag's creeping on me. I can't draw the archery tag now. It's just like, where does this end? It's like an exponential problem. It's not like a problem that's slowly getting worse. It's every year exponentially getting worse.
00:46:50
Speaker
Absolutely, man. No, you're a hundred percent right. Yeah. So anyway, I guess King commissioner, I agree with your King commissioner assessment here. Just rip the band-aid really. That's the best way to be the best way to reset the clock. I have another question for you, but I want to get into a hunting story with you before I wrap this thing up, but it's off. It's in the point spectrum and I want to see if you have an answer. Why doesn't you told me how many points do you have in Colorado?
00:47:18
Speaker
I think I'm at six for most. Six, okay. See, like I'd want to go hunting with you, but the problem with Colorado is I can't average. I think I have seven or eight. Do you know why Colorado doesn't leave average? Because that'd be a way to get some people out of the point pool. That would be a great way to get guys out of the point pool. Why don't they do it? I would average all day long. Because you can point creep and then turn your tag back in. Or you can point boost and then turn tags back in. So they'd have to get rid of their turn back tag program.
00:47:48
Speaker
or they'd have to make it. So if you turned your tag back in, you lost all your points. Or do something like Utah did. Because that's good thing about that point boost is what I was talking about. Those guys are paying guys in Arizona to do it. Yeah. So why not? It seems to me like you just do. Utah made a thing where you can't, because people don't understand what we're talking about right now. So in Utah, you would have your max point holder, 22 points, whatever it is that year. And then it's 23. So that's 24. You draw a mule deer tag every year.
00:48:16
Speaker
And then you're paying guides to go out and they're like, Oh, we didn't get a lot of water this year. And the bucks aren't that big. So they turn their tag back in the week of, and then they get all their points back. And next year now they have 24 points. Now they made it to where you can't do that. Right. And in Utah, you can't turn, you can't turn it back or you can do it once, but you don't get another point.
00:48:39
Speaker
You don't get another point. I just did it actually because I drew a Utah archery buck tag and then I drew a U sheep tag in Wyoming and turned my tag back in. So I ended up not getting the additional point. So you just basically would stay stagnant. So I might get three points. I entered the draw with three points. I'm still at three points a year later in Utah.
00:48:58
Speaker
Yeah, that's not a bad way to do it. As long as you don't sit at such a high point level that you're just boosting people every year. But yeah, so that was what, but that's why I've heard that they do that is because that way grandmas and long lost cousins aren't point boosting people who aren't people who aren't hunting aren't point boosting people who are.
00:49:17
Speaker
I don't like it because I want to go on a hunt with Cody Rich this year in Colorado and he's got less points than me. And I'm like, dude, you're killing me. Like I have less options because I'm running with you. I talked to him and I think he said he had six, maybe he does it. Maybe he has five or four. Yeah. Yeah. I think he's got one less than me.
00:49:38
Speaker
He's got five. Yeah, I have, I think I have eight now in Colorado, but I'm like, I feel like Colorado's day should be hunting. If people say every two or three years, I'm hunting it. I'm at eight points now. I just need to go hunt it. I feel like the more points you get, you just shrink that pool of what you cannot, then you just keep screwing yourself.
00:49:54
Speaker
You said go hunt one of those lesser units and then go kill a 160 buck and be stoked. You don't have to go and get luck and maybe you kill 180, 200 bucks. But if you wait eight years, you're going to be very disappointed because you're probably not going to kill 200 bucks. Probably going to kill that same caliber of buck. Dude, it's the number one thing here locally. It's been nice to learn this in Wyoming. And I'd learned that actually this buck that's sitting above me was in a no name unit in Eastern Oregon too. And it was because it was my backyard and I was hunting it every single day before work and after work and whatever.
00:50:24
Speaker
I think that there's a lot of value in going back to places that people don't consider. If you know where the deer are, how they act, and what pressure is doing, and what weather does to them, that, I think, over the long haul makes you a lot more successful than just rolling in blind every single year to some new unit that you heard, had a giant once. Yep, exactly. Had a giant once, exactly. That's a freaking fun podcast. We always like to have hunting stories, right? It's one of our things here.
A Successful Hunt Story
00:50:55
Speaker
I saw you had some on your site, some of your favorite stories. Hit me with the hunting story, dude. Okay, so here's my favorite hunting story so far. So I mentioned my brother earlier. He doesn't quite have the bug like I do, but him and I are pretty good hunting buddies. He's three years younger than me. So in 2022, he drew a Wyoming tag and wanted to come out hunting.
00:51:19
Speaker
The last time that he had killed a deer was when I was 16 and he was 13 and he shot his first fork and horn mule deer. So it'd been a while. And so on that day, back in whatever year that was, but when he was 13 and I was 16, he shot his buck. It died. He started working it up. And then I shot another buck on the hill just right after him. And so we doubled.
00:51:42
Speaker
And we basically, he drew this tag that's right next to where I live. And I was like, dude, I'm going to scout this thing for us. We're going to hunt this thing hard. And it's going to be like, you know, hopefully we get a good four point out of it. And don't worry about me, like your first shooter. Like this is, it's an out of state tag. Like I can hunt this thing every year. Don't worry.
00:52:01
Speaker
That summer in scouting, I was driving to look at some deer in one of my glass and spots. And in the headlights, this big buck walks across the road with a whole bunch of other bucks. And I was like, whoa, slam on the brakes, turn around. And in the gray light, I see them skyline. And I get some photos through my scope of these deer walking up the hillside.
00:52:24
Speaker
And so that's July 16th. And then basically I kept, I was like, that's a damn nice deer. I think I need to hunt that one, but obviously I'm going to keep looking through scouting season.
00:52:35
Speaker
September rolls around and in Wyoming you can hunt with archery equipment all the month of September and then you get the rifle dates. So I spent like 12 days in September out in the same spot where I'd seen this buck over the summer trying to find this deer. And I was like trying to find him and I ended up putting a stock on a nice four point, like like 24 inch four point. Couldn't quite get like close the deal but in bucks but I could not find the big buck that I had seen.
00:53:03
Speaker
And so fast forward to opening day of rifle season. And I was like, All right, Tyler, that's my brother's name. Tyler, we're gonna hunt this zone where there's been eight to 10 bucks every day. And there's a big one in there somewhere. I just haven't seen him since July 16. He's somewhere there, though.
00:53:22
Speaker
And we roll out there on the glassing knob, opening day of rifle season. We're like, we're there in the pitch dark, set up with our tripods, waiting for it to get light enough to look through our optics. And as it's getting light enough, we start seeing some elk because they pop out a little bit easier in that gray light. And then my brother's like, I'm going to look around the corner. He steps just a couple of feet to my left and he's looking the other direction. And then immediately he sits down and I start throwing crap at him. Dude, the bucks are here. The bucks are here.
00:53:51
Speaker
So we throw all of our stuff together. We run down the hill and we cut down to a hundred, 210, something like that yards from these deer and pop up a ridge. And this buck looks at us and it's got a pretty nice frame. I'm like, all right, dude, like that's your buck. Like go ahead. And he boom hits him. Boom. Miss. Boom. This is the July 16th book.
00:54:12
Speaker
So hang tight. Uh, yeah. So boom drops this buck and my brother and I start like, you know, getting all excited and we're like, Holy crap, Tyler, you got a great buck. Like we're all pumped, you know, cheering. And then he, and then we like realize, oh wait, there's eight other deer up here. Like you should shoot one too. And so I get behind the gun and they're like walking through this, like trotting through this opening and they're still not super sure what's happened. And the first buck walks through the opening and I'm like, God, that's a big fork and horn.
00:54:40
Speaker
I'm not going to shoot that one. And the next buck walks through and he's got a pretty good frame and I touch it off and he tips right over. And then all of a sudden there's that moment where like my brother and I look at each other. Did we just, did you just, did we just double on bucks again? And we're like, Oh my God. We started losing our crap cause like good brothers do jumping around, hugging each other and stuff. And then we walk up to his buck.
00:55:03
Speaker
And his bucks is like sweet 25 inch four point. Like he's a great buck. And like I said, it was my brother's second deer ever. And the first one was a big fork and point fork horn.
00:55:13
Speaker
And so we're like, man, that's awesome. So we walked the 200 yards down to the other deer that I had just killed. And we walk up on it and it's the July 16th buck that I've been chasing in September. And so we drug them next to each other and took photos. My brother and I both had these sweet four points that we killed just a couple of seconds apart from each other. It's one of my favorite photos and like favorite memories so far, man. It was great.
00:55:37
Speaker
I'll have to get that picture for the Instagram post of this thing. How did that buck, I don't want to go like numbers, but did he dwarf your brother's buck? Was he that big?
00:55:46
Speaker
My buck broke 180, but he's really unique. He's like only 20 inches wide basically, but he's just got silly long tines. Like we're talking like 13, 14 inch G2 or G3s and 12 inch G4s. Yeah. He's got silly long tines. And then my brother, like my brother shot a great buck. Like he's like a one 50s type four point. Like it's a great, it's a great deer. So.
00:56:12
Speaker
Of course he made, he had to rip me a little bit. He's, you sucker, you told me to shoot the small one. And I was like, no, I didn't. I promise. But no, it's fun, man. And like you said, those are the memories that those ones stick together, sticking your brain for a long time. Yeah, that's awesome. You can't get that back and just sometimes it works out. That's what keeps going back every single time, dude.
00:56:33
Speaker
Yeah man, that was an awesome podcast. You're a wealth of knowledge. I have to do it again here soon. Tell me about Hunt West, tell me where to find you, how we can do to help you and get your services, do all that stuff.
00:56:43
Speaker
I appreciate that, man. Best way to check out what I've got going on is on huntwest.net. One day I'll get the .com, but for now it's the .net. I would love it if people wanted to, if they want to learn more about Western hunting and stay up to date with free resources, get exclusive discounts. That's a hint. They can sign up for the newsletter. I really, I know it's old school to be running a newsletter, but
00:57:06
Speaker
in the day and age that we're living in with social media, you never know when hunting or just hunting content in general is going to be black eyed on there. So I just, I don't really want to build my house on that rented land. So if you'd like to, I'm going to just keep it as, as nuts and bolts helpful as possible. And it's a Sunday newsletter at huntwest.net. So that would be the best place to keep up with me. And obviously I'm on social medias though, personally too.
00:57:33
Speaker
just at Jaden Bales, which is my name. So if you want to follow along, hit me up. I'm always happy just to share free resources and point people in the right direction, even if they can't afford one of the consulting services I have. Awesome, dude. Let's do it again. Good podcast. Happy to. Thank you.
00:57:53
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Tricer Podcast. Do us a favor or like and subscribe on whatever platform you're listening on. Give us a follow on Instagram and Facebook at tricerusa. I'm going to check out all of our innovative gear at www.tricerusa.com. Until next time, shoot straight, have fun, and always put God first.