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Episode 23: What is A Doorknob Comment Anyway?
112 Plays4 years ago
In this episode Fara and Grant discuss doorknob comments in more detail, the meaningful comments people make just as they are leaving a meeting when there won't be time to discuss them, and their implications for therapy.
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Transcript
Doorknob Comments: Jokes or Serious Communication?
00:00:05
Speaker
Doorknob comments remind me of jokes in a way where jokes can serve as a serious communication, but they can also be like played off as not being important. Jokes exist in kind of like a liminal space, like in the doorway between one room and another.
Introduction: Meet Farrah White and Grant Brenner
00:00:23
Speaker
Hi, thanks for listening to Doorknob comments. I'm Farrah White. And I'm Grant Brenner. We are psychiatrists on a mission to educate and advocate for mental health and overall wellbeing.
00:00:33
Speaker
In addition to the obvious, we focus on the subtle, often unspoken dimensions of human experience, the so-called doorknob comments people often make just as they are leaving their therapist's office. We seek to dispel misconceptions while offering useful perspectives through open and honest conversation. We hope you enjoy our podcast. Please feel free to reach out to us with questions, comments, and requests.
What Are Doorknob Comments?
00:00:57
Speaker
So I'm really excited today to talk about the sort of title of our podcast, what is a doorknob comment? I see it as like a whimsical fun, you know, part of therapy, but I think that there is definitely more substance to it than a lot of people would know.
00:01:12
Speaker
Yeah, I thought I was going to introduce the topic, but that's OK. I was just I was thinking so thanks for jumping in. OK, it's it's it's whimsical, but you know, I thought it was funny because a lot of people have heard of the term doorknob comments. There's plenty of New Yorker cartoons and certainly therapists, you know, think about this and.
00:01:29
Speaker
I think a lot of times in therapy comes a time when something will happen and the therapist will like do some psycho education, quote unquote, you know, explain what a doorknob comment is.
Humor as a Defense Mechanism
00:01:39
Speaker
And then it becomes something often very important for therapy, you know, and quite serious actually, as much as it's whimsical. In that sense, I'd say doorknob comments remind me of jokes in a way where jokes can serve as a serious communication, but they can also be like played off as not being important.
00:01:57
Speaker
Jokes exist in kind of like a liminal space, you know, like in the in the doorway between one room and another, like in the edge of experience. Right. And I think that there's something about, you know, because humor really at its core, I think is defense. And there's something a little bit safer about saying something as a joke. Did you say humor is at its core defense? A defense, I think. That's very traditional. Is it too traditional for you?
00:02:25
Speaker
I question the idea of humor as a defense, though I certainly understand, as Freud talked about humor as being one of the most evolved defenses.
Defensiveness in Psychoanalysis
00:02:34
Speaker
But defense isn't necessarily a bad thing, I guess. I see it as a really positive thing, and I see it as a way that people protect themselves against some of the harsher realities. If we joke about something, then it takes out some of the anxiety. The idea of a defense is
00:02:52
Speaker
not something to be ashamed of. But if you tell someone they're being defensive in ordinary conversation, it's not usually taken well. So we've come to use the term a little bit differently than psychoanalysts do as just something to be aware of. Exactly. A clinical term, defense, is very different from stop being so defensive.
Intimacy and Communication in Therapy
00:03:12
Speaker
Right. But even if you say, well, stop being so defensive,
00:03:15
Speaker
I don't even necessarily, like I know that it's sort of meant to be a way to say that, oh, well, someone can't take criticism or someone can't, but I see it as, well, people need to be able to stand up for themselves. Maybe sometimes that's being defensive if you feel too criticized, but if someone does feel criticized, then they can advocate for themselves. So I don't know. Well, I think when someone says stop being defensive, they're asking the other person to behave differently with them interpersonally.
00:03:44
Speaker
from a couple of therapy point of view, it would be, well, what are you trying to say? Like, I felt hurt when you said that, or I felt criticized, or could you try to speak differently to me when you're feeling upset?
Unpacking Doorknob Comments
00:03:56
Speaker
Or if you want me to do something, could you express it this way in the form of
00:04:00
Speaker
an accusation, it's harder for the other person to hear. So it's interesting. With doorknob comments are a little different. We'll talk about what is a doorknob comment. With jokes, they can be taken back in a way, you know, people will say, I was just kidding. Like, you know, outfit doesn't look good on you. Or like, why did you wear that tonight? It's like, I'm just kidding. Like, can't you take a joke? Don't be so defensive. It's like, what do you what do you really think? So jokes are funny because they're true. Freud wrote a whole book on jokes.
00:04:29
Speaker
Yeah, and I think a lot of therapists do really love humor. It's under-theorized, meaning some has been written about it, but Freud wrote this book called Jokes in Their Relation to the Unconscious. A lot of times doorknob comments are in the form of jokes. As a matter of fact, what is a doorknob comment?
00:04:46
Speaker
It is something, a comment, something that is said just at the end of a therapy session when the patient is leaving the room just on their way out.
Addressing Doorknob Comments in Therapy
00:04:57
Speaker
I think the point is that there's really not much time to talk about it. Someone's hand is on the doorknob.
00:05:02
Speaker
So maybe the therapist is holding the door open, maybe the patient is opening the door, and they open the door as if they're about to leave, they pause, they turn around, then the patient says, Oh, by the way, I'll try not to kill myself before then. Maybe that's a joke. It could be a joke. It's a doorknob comments, but some kind of a communication that feels very intense and loaded, but also in a curious way. It's a meaningful communication.
00:05:32
Speaker
It feels like it's loaded with meaning that is sort of tightly packed. It would have to be sort of, as therapists say, unpacked, but there's no time. The decision has to be made whether to extend the session, if it's warranted, or whether to say something like, that's really important. I think this, and hey, we can meet sooner if you want, or are you okay until talking about it next week?
00:05:58
Speaker
It's generally not a good idea to just ignore it, especially if it's something to do with personal safety, like a comment about suicidality.
Recognizing Patterns and Frequency in Sessions
00:06:06
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I think a lot of the time, and I don't know what your reaction is, sometimes it is hard to extend the session or make room, or I've never said, why don't you sit back down and we're going to talk about that. I would direct it and, well, I'm here if you need me in the meantime.
00:06:26
Speaker
You know, if that happens often, you know, with one person, then as therapists, we start to ask ourselves, are we missing something, you know, that we're avoiding during the therapy that it keeps coming up at the end. And so we might notice a pattern over time. And people who are receiving therapy can also notice those patterns.
Financial Dynamics in Therapy
00:06:44
Speaker
In some cases, that also is like maybe it would be helpful to meet more than once a week, like we need more time.
00:06:50
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. If more time is the issue, I think a lot of it might have to do with certain feelings about having to end the session and having to say goodbye, knowing that you're not going to see that person for another week. So that can bring up anger or abandonment or whatever it is, and that can be hard to talk about too.
00:07:12
Speaker
Well, absolutely. I think the underlying question there is often, do you really care? Sometimes when it's time to get an invoice, like at the beginning of the next month or the end of the month, people will make comments about money, often in a joking way or express
Balancing Professionalism and Caring
00:07:29
Speaker
doubts about the therapy. I think because the salience, the importance of the investment people are making is in some ways more obvious when you have to pay a bill.
00:07:42
Speaker
And at the end of the session, there's questions about caring, especially I think for therapists who are very clear about the boundary. The underlying question is like, do you only care because I'm paying you? And is it possible to care about someone and also pay them for something?
00:07:58
Speaker
for a lot of patients, they feel more comfortable paying because then it's a clear exchange. It's part of what we've come to know is like the frame of how therapy works and that they pay really for the time, not for us to care or not care, but I do think that it's hard for people
Relational Dimensions in Therapy
00:08:19
Speaker
if they imagine that this therapist doesn't really care about me and just wants to have the invoices paid, that I can imagine that might be very distressing to some people. But on the other hand, to be liked too much, and I feel like I have this problem a little bit with some people, if I like them very much, that's an uncomfortable feeling for them.
00:08:39
Speaker
Well, navigating intimacy, especially because therapy has like a relationship or relational dimension, as you're saying, some some people in general, you know, forget about whether they're in therapy or not with someone have difficulty with intimacy and having it feel more transactional is reassuring, but also it could be potentially problematic because it avoids addressing directly kind of the intimacy issue.
Maintaining Therapeutic Boundaries
00:09:05
Speaker
Oh, I already paid my bill or don't worry, you can charge me for that.
00:09:08
Speaker
sort of what's behind that type of comment versus saying something like, well, I have a few minutes. What you said is important. Maybe we can talk about it a little bit and follow up next time. Things that sort of break the frame are often described in the stuff that's been written about therapy, the literature, as being taken as signs of authentic caring.
00:09:32
Speaker
Like there's a famous one about a patient who's cold, you know, in the psychoanalytic literature and the therapist gives them a blanket. And that's like a violation of like the unwritten rules of therapy. Or there's another famous one about a patient who is frightened and the therapist walks them to the elevator. And again, you know, this question about authenticity of the relationship and the caring comes up around the frame.
00:09:57
Speaker
at the end of the session, as you're saying, when it's time to leave, that can feel a little bit forced. The two people might actually want to talk longer. Yeah, and sometimes they do, and it's hard to maintain that boundary. But I think with a lot of the traditions or rules or however you want to call it, they're in place really for the protection of the patient. I know that
00:10:19
Speaker
analysts are known to be kind of rigid with that frame, but I think what happens when you're not rigid is that you can get into this kind of unclear space. So maybe the therapist has the patient blanket and that's nice, but what if
00:10:39
Speaker
Then the therapist gives the patient a pillow and then the patient feels compelled to lie down, but they don't really want to lie down. It's just a very slippery slope. That's the argument in favor of having clear boundaries and being clear if there's a reason for crossing those boundaries.
00:10:55
Speaker
and maintaining the boundaries, it's considered to be important to be very clear about those things.
Therapist-Patient Communication Patterns
00:11:02
Speaker
Though a lot of times afterward, you sort through them, and that's also therapeutic. If there's a minor boundary crossing, well, how come you're not always so nice to me? How come you only offered me a blanket once? And what is the symbolic meaning of offering the person a blanket? Does that feel too intimate? And things like that can get stirred up.
00:11:21
Speaker
But it's also worth noting that things like like this are also good for the therapist as well, you know, to have an expectation that their time will be managed and that, you know, there's what's that movie? What about Bob? I'd love that. Such a good movie. You know, where a patient essentially starts showing up in the therapist's private life. And then there's a curb your enthusiasm where he encounters one of his therapists at a baseball show and see that.
00:11:49
Speaker
He has like a two-minute conversation with the therapist who the therapist tries to tell him kind of like I'm not working right now. And then he sees it on his invoice next time that he told him a rather large sum. And the same therapist in that episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm does something that is completely forbidden, which is he starts talking about other patients and inadvertently disclosing who they are.
Trust and Doorknob Comments
00:12:13
Speaker
Well, I think that's something that I've never had it happen in real life. And I've known a lot of therapists in my time. Most of them, actually all of them have been like super, super professional.
00:12:28
Speaker
Well, it makes me think about a doorknob comment as maybe expressing trust. A lot of times, the way I'm starting to think about it is there's a few different general categories of doorknob comments. One of them is like, what do you think of me? The patient is wondering what the therapist really thinks. It's almost like, well, the session is over, so you're no longer a therapist, so what do you really think? It's like, you're so nice to me during the session, but
00:12:56
Speaker
If I push it a little bit, are you going to say something else? Or if I put you on the spot? Because a lot of times we feel put on the spot as therapists if we don't handle it really well. If we're feeling rushed or someone else is there in the waiting room, you know, you get cornered and you can blurt something out. Also a good interrogation technique. And it may be just like, well, can my therapist handle this?
00:13:17
Speaker
Maybe I think when we put people on the spot, the things are unpredictable.
Therapists on the Spot
00:13:24
Speaker
Like if someone else is there, the therapist might, for the protection of both patients, just want the patient whose session is ending to make their way out because you don't want to like inadvertently breach anybody's confidentiality.
00:13:40
Speaker
Well, I think that's where it's problematic if you feel put on the spot too much. And this is true for anyone where it can be very helpful to say, you know, come on, you know, come back in for a sec. Let's close the door. Yeah. And to take another minute or two, which shouldn't bother anyone that much.
00:13:56
Speaker
no, but it can be injurious to the person who's waiting there. So I just think that that I'll just sort of argue the other side. Okay. So if the if the other person who's waiting comes in, they say, how come you were two minutes late, say, well, something important came up, obviously can't talk about it. But I would I would certainly, you know, do the same for you. Right.
00:14:16
Speaker
And, you know, maybe that's not a good enough answer.
Patient Curiosity About Therapists
00:14:19
Speaker
And then you can explore like what it brought up for them. Maybe their father used to like, you know, end things abruptly, you know, or show favoritism for someone, you know, another sibling or something. But of course, you don't want to just turn everything into like, it's somehow like the patient's psychological problem.
00:14:37
Speaker
uh though at the same time you know understanding whether so-called transference is coming up you know whether something is being pulled into the therapy can be incredibly helpful but oftentimes it's some kind of insecurity or seeking reassurance you you you must i must be one of your toughest patients right i'll see you next week or do you do you think do you think that i need to be hospitalized you know or you probably think i'm like um such a narcissistic person don't you
00:15:03
Speaker
Well, and I think it's important for us to distinguish between, for us, we're psychiatrists, that there is really the analytic way of looking at things. And then there's a more medicalized way where if we did believe that someone needed to be hospitalized, we probably would not let them leave the office.
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah, certainly you, you know, especially trained in medicine or depending if you're not trained in medicine if you have that kind of medical training, you know, certainly all of a sudden, you would stop thinking of it as symbolic, and you would think of it as, you know, is there a concrete issue and right do do a quote unquote risk assessment. Yeah.
00:15:42
Speaker
Right, and I think that that's why it's important to put the doorknob comment in the context. You were saying, well, is it within the frame? Is it outside of the frame? And to really look at it with a very critical eye. Well, within the frame, meaning something like it's subject to meaning making, and it's taken as something like a symbolic comment that can be understood
00:16:05
Speaker
in other than sort of the concrete surface ways versus something outside of the frame which is kind of sometimes cigar is just a cigar like it is what it is. So another one is like things about the therapist, right? Like what do you do outside of here? Yeah or if you let someone know that you're going to be away the last two weeks of August they might want to know where you're going on vacation.
00:16:29
Speaker
Are you going on vacation? Do you ever take a vacation? Do you have children? Are you married? I'm worried about you. You seem out of sorts recently. I know I'm not supposed to ask, but, you know, are you okay? I don't get that very often, but any, even expressing affection, you know, like, or gratitude. A lot of times people will say these things as they're walking out the door.
00:16:54
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's because it can feel a little bit scary. So for people who've been in therapy for a long time, they kind of know not to ask too much because a lot of therapists are traditionally pretty tight-lipped about their personal lives.
00:17:12
Speaker
Right. Well, I've certainly worked with folks where they have worked with traditionally trained therapists who essentially say, I don't talk about those things and please don't ask.
Encouraging Early Discussion of Curiosities
00:17:25
Speaker
Though there's a therapist who I think we're both familiar with who really brought to our attention the importance of potentially giving the patient room to think about and talk about what they at least what they imagine about the therapist, Lou Aaron.
00:17:41
Speaker
wrote about that very eloquently. And if you set these rules, then the concern is that there will be important things that aren't explored. What I thought you were gonna say is that therapists will ask patients to bring those issues up earlier in the session. And patients will learn to say, you know, I was having the thought where I wondered where you were going on vacation, or I found myself feeling a sense of caring, you know, today, especially. And then it gets pulled into the therapy, which is another way of being trained.
00:18:10
Speaker
Yeah. And we. Therapized. Right. But as I think a much healthier way to explore that stuff, because usually it can, it can just give us information about, you know, why, why are they curious about where you're going?
00:18:28
Speaker
Well, the deeper level. Yeah, because there probably is something at the root of it. And a lot of times it's questions about decisions, let's say that the therapist has made in his or her life and patients wanting to, who may be struggle with that, where every decision is excruciating. And so they look to the therapist as sort of a model of, oh, well you got married, so maybe I can too. I think
00:18:53
Speaker
shutting that down is not only unnecessarily withholding, but you're missing something important. Yeah, I agree. But the flip side, the risk is that if it's also not approached in a mutual collaborative way, then the other person, the patient may take it as permission or even instruction to make an important life decision.
00:19:18
Speaker
That's why we learned to have kind of a spider sense about questions like that and be sometimes annoyingly vague about how we want to answer them or, you know, oh, I know you're going to want to explore this, but, you know, the idea is that it can be helpful also to have more nuanced conversations with people outside of therapy.
Redirecting Personal Questions
00:19:40
Speaker
You know, sometimes it's good to keep it not so nuanced.
00:19:44
Speaker
What do you mean? There are times in personal relationships where insisting on exploring things, you know, the way a therapist might insist on exploring them in therapy is not always the best decision. Like it might be better sometimes to wait to talk about something until the other person is ready. A good example.
00:20:03
Speaker
I think that's why a lot of people see therapists as either maybe not impolite is not the right word, but just kind of intrusive and not adhering to like the social, like socially accepted boundaries. I know we were saying how sometimes in therapy you talk about things like money or sex or things that you probably wouldn't come up at a dinner party.
00:20:27
Speaker
the timing and the rhythm of it is different in therapy. Of course, presumably patients are giving their therapists consent to ask them more personal questions and hopefully would feel comfortable saying, I don't want to talk about that.
Subtle Communication in Therapy
00:20:42
Speaker
Therapists by the same token, we listen for things that sound more meaningful. A lot of times, they're lost in the middle of a bunch of other things and you learn to listen with your third ear as they say.
00:20:55
Speaker
So one of the ideas with doorknob comments is that you haven't you haven't really maybe they tried to bring it up and you haven't heard it. And so it's coming up sort of at the end of the session. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe the patient has has hidden it not because of the therapist and they're just sort of letting it out as they're leaving. Yeah.
00:21:12
Speaker
Well, the one, yeah, the one we were just referencing is things that the patient is ambivalent about discussing or may not have brought up. And so that might be, as you said, it could be self-destructive thoughts or suicidal thoughts. It could come out in a serious or a joking way.
00:21:30
Speaker
A lot of times it can be history, you know, by the way, I forgot, I never told you, but I was married before, or I never told you, but when I was a kid, I had this bad experience. This week, I felt really embarrassed about how I talked to one of my friends or employees or coworkers, but
00:21:48
Speaker
I didn't want to bring it up, but maybe next week we can talk about it. Sometimes, as you said, it's a sexual thing, like a sexual problem. Men very often won't mention sexual issues in my experience, unless you ask them directly. It's about their appearance. Anything that could be just really uncomfortable. Financial difficulties that might affect the therapy.
00:22:12
Speaker
And then, yeah, did we, I don't know if we really touched on the idea of concerns about the therapy itself or the framework, but I guess it sort of straddles two categories where it can be sort of both difficult to discuss and it also has to do with the therapist.
00:22:30
Speaker
Right, like things that the patient is not sure they want to bring up might not even be fully conscious because like jokes, a lot of these things kind of just come up spontaneously. Sometimes, you know, people will tell you they were thinking about whether or not to bring it up the whole session. I don't know if you wanted me to bring it up.
00:22:46
Speaker
or I have other stuff to talk about, it has to do with their priorities.
Comfort in Raising Issues
00:22:51
Speaker
But the specific issue about the way the treatment is going, or the kind of therapy that it is, is therapy really helping me? Yeah, I think all of those things can be- People wanting to stop therapy and not being sure how the therapist will take that.
00:23:10
Speaker
Right. And I mean, some of these things are very real, uh, real issues and, and should be directly addressed. I think really being, feeling comfortable to discuss them within the session is just not something that we can take for granted.
00:23:29
Speaker
Right. Many therapists would say that would be an achievement, like a developmental achievement in therapy, as we were saying before, to get to the point where you say, hey, I know in the past I would have mentioned this as I was walking out the door, but X, Y, and Z. People learn to be less avoidant. They work through some trust issues.
Non-Authoritarian Therapy Style
00:23:50
Speaker
They develop a greater sense of security about their own thoughts.
00:23:54
Speaker
maybe they've sorted out some of their anxieties about what other people think of them and so on. What are your thoughts about how that can be helpful? I mean, I just always like in the interest of progress and moving forward. And I think because as someone who's just by nature fairly accommodating and tends to attract patients who are fairly accommodating, when someone- Fairly accommodating.
00:24:22
Speaker
But when someone says, hey, this just doesn't work for me, whether it's a medication, whether it's a scheduling time, always like want to just do a cartwheel when they stand up for themselves in that way, because I know how hard it can be to do that. And most people don't see me as like an authority figure or anything, but they might feel worried about disappointing me.
Balancing Authority and Open Communication
00:24:47
Speaker
What do you mean most people don't see you as an authority figure? Are you sure? Because you're like the doctor and all this stuff. Maybe it's because you're doing cartwheels. Maybe. I don't think I'm like that authoritative. Like authoritarian. Yeah, it's not really my style. But people might still feel bad telling me that they need to move an appointment. They will say, I'm so sorry, I need to move this appointment. And I'm kind of like, no, do what's right for you.
00:25:13
Speaker
And then you feel sort of proud for the person to stand up for themselves kind of thing.
00:25:20
Speaker
When I put that into the context of the minor inconvenience, it's really nothing. There's a lot there. Am I making a doorknob comment right now? No. We started a little bit late because we were re-recording our intro in case people are interested. I hope that's not too much self-disclosure. The idea is that therapists are supposed to be blank though. A lot of people don't really believe that. On the other hand, as you were saying,
00:25:48
Speaker
There are boundaries and sometimes people don't want to know too much. And it's nice to have someone who you can kind of see as being sort of a blank slate in some ways as a sounding board, right? You don't have
Growth Mindset and Doorknob Comments
00:26:02
Speaker
to worry too much. It's quite tricky. So learning to pay attention to these sort of, we have doorknob comments in our own minds.
00:26:10
Speaker
Right. And so you learn to hear the stuff that is, as they say, preconscious. It's not unconscious, and it's not fully conscious. It's not structured. You haven't really articulated it fully to yourself. But you can kind of tell something is there. It's like on the tip of your tongue kind of thing. Therapy is all about
00:26:31
Speaker
learning to put things into words and learning to listen to your inner thoughts and have that be very clear to oneself and others if need be, and also learning to make decisions about whether or not to inhibit oneself, I suppose. And so doorknob comments kind of encapsulate that inner process in the frame of the treatment. And I think it's just one of many things, many concepts that make our work really interesting.
00:26:57
Speaker
You know, one other thought I have is whether or not those types of things like whether or not doorknob comments are either invited into the therapy or shamed and excluded, you know, because it's making me think about different mindsets. Psychologists talk about like what kind of mindset do you have? It turns out that that's actually like as a technical definition, and there's all kinds of different mindsets.
00:27:18
Speaker
that have been studied. But two big ones are an anxiety or fixed mindset and a growth mindset. So if you have a growth mindset, a doorknob comment becomes something that's really like wonderful. Yeah. And something for the two people to do something with. Yeah. And to delight in most of the time. Just the idea that you could take something that feels too scary to say and then have a conversation about it, have a whole discussion about it.
The Analyzed Joke
00:27:47
Speaker
Yeah, certainly a level of curiosity with a kind of a positive sense, I think is very helpful for anything that feels kind of squirrely like that. Same thing with jokes that, you know, not always easy to look at what a joke might mean. Because for one thing, it often makes the joke no longer funny to analyze it.
00:28:11
Speaker
There you go again, you know, it's a trade off, right? Yeah. Yeah. You always have to analyze everything I say. Well, I don't have to, but you know, a lot of times jokes seem pretty obvious too. And it's hard. It's hard to just ignore that.
00:28:28
Speaker
But it's also hard for people to say what's really on their minds. And I think a lot of what we do when we work with people who are suffering from anxiety or unremitting rage or whatever it might be, a lot of it is because it is too
Guiding Through Emotions
00:28:47
Speaker
hard.
00:28:47
Speaker
It requires compassion and patience because it's a process to work on those things. It's not realistic to expect people to be able to do gymnastics when they don't know how to do a somersault first or whatever it is that gymnasts learn at the foundation. I think there's something about the idea of the trade-off that's important
00:29:10
Speaker
you know there's kind of leaving things unspoken can be kind of nice and oh what you were saying earlier that in therapy a lot of times it doesn't feel like a typical conversation because there is this risk slash opportunity of talking about things in a less than sort of typically normal way. I have to say a lot of people have relationships where they do talk about how meaningful things are
00:29:35
Speaker
and it's not so unusual, but it would be kind of weird just out of the blue, like, you know, if you didn't have that kind of relationship with someone at a cocktail party and they made a joke and you kind of said, oh, that's very funny. What does that joke mean? They'd be like, are you a psychiatrist or something?
00:29:51
Speaker
Yeah, some people don't want to be examined in that way or scrutinized, you know. That's how it can feel. Yeah. This is one of the just just one small way that a lot of this stuff gets expressed.
Closing Doorknob Comments
00:30:04
Speaker
So you said we're saying that there's some things that are preconscious. Right. And we have a lot. There's there's a lot there. And there are a lot of different ways for this stuff to come out. And a door knob comment is just one of those. So it's not like a full wraparound thing.
00:30:21
Speaker
Human experience is full of many layers of meaning and sometimes it's nice to think that it's simpler and sometimes it is, but it can be quite a good experience to make sense out of things and it seems to be really important. I remember one more thing actually that my joke about like we have to stop shortly reminded me of, which is sometimes if a therapy session seems to end too abruptly,
00:30:46
Speaker
it can be helpful a few minutes before the end of the session to say something like, we're going to have to stop in a few minutes. Is there anything else that you wanted to bring up today? And to some extent, you may not run into the doorknob comment phenomenon as much if you really mark that the end of the session is coming, which a lot of times therapists don't do because there's an idea that when the session starts and when the session ends is kind of
00:31:11
Speaker
There's no structure to the session. Yeah, I agree. I think really skilled clinicians can do that intuitively. Well, patients learn to pick up on the clues. I noticed that you start to interrupt me more or you lean forward or you put your pad down or you start looking at your text messages.
00:31:32
Speaker
That's a bad one. That's the last one. That would be a bad one. I hope no one does that. Well, sometimes you have to reach for a phone or a computer because that's how you make the next appointment. It depends on how the therapy is structured.
00:31:45
Speaker
point being that we watch one another very closely. We make inferences about each other without needing to say everything. But therapy prizes putting everything into words. Right. Exactly. Thanks for listening. And if people enjoyed it, they can rate and review us. That would be very meaningful. You can also find us on social media. Do you want to have comments? Right. Thank you.
00:32:14
Speaker
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Conclusion and Listener Feedback
00:32:19
Speaker
Please take a moment to share your thoughts. We'd love it if you could leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. You can also find us on Instagram at Dornop Comments. Remember, this podcast is for general information purposes only and does not constitute the practice of psychiatry or any other type of medicine. This is not a substitute for professional and individual treatment services and no doctor-patient relationship is formed. If you feel that you may be in crisis, please don't delay in securing mental health treatment. Thank you for listening.