Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Dunstan Bruce formed a band! Chumbawamba, anarchy, and accidentally writing a global super-hit
156 Plays15 days ago
Ep. 3: Eddie and Joe chat to the funny, erudite and extremely dapper Dunstan Bruce – he of 90s Tubthumping BEHEMOTH Chumbawamba, and, latterly, Interrobang. This was a great interview: Dunstan has so much thoughtful stuff to say about life, music fandom, art, anarchy, pranks, learning, growing – and selling millions of records well over a dozen years into your career.
Eddie came away from the interview with a renewed love for Chumbawamba, and Joe, who pretty much only listened to Suede in the 90s, came away with huge admiration for them and their music. (Both Eddie and Joe especially loved the band’s deep-cut “Mouth Full of Shit”, although that didn’t stop them repeatedly getting the name wrong when discussing it at the end of the podcast.)
Dunstan's story is also about trial, error, long-winded conversations with band-mates, tricking journalists into saying rude things bout them, maybe-accidentally writing a enormous global hit, and how it felt like their “breakthrough moment” was many years before “Tumbthumping” when the band finally stopped sleeping in their van and got a sleeper coach on tour.
(Joe also accidentally compares Dunstan to Kier Starmer, and is sincerely sorry, Dunstan.)
And we got to meet Dunstan’s cat right at the end, too!
Plus, in a bonus Argos Catalogue section, Eddie explains how he was once in a lift with Mark E Smith AND one of the Wu Tang Clan... but how many members of the Wu-Tang has Eddie actually met?
Chumbawamba’s excellent “I Get Knocked Down” documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsAVHNPpUtQ
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chumbawamba
Dunstan: https://www.instagram.com/dunstanbruce/
Interrobang: http://interrobangband.co.uk
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Guest
00:00:07
Speaker
Do you want to do the introduction or shall I? Have we started?
00:00:15
Speaker
yeah So this week is Dunstan Bruce oh from Chumbawamba. It's Dunstan Bruce from Chumbawamba. And by the way, we should probably introduce the podcast. This is I Formed a Band with me, the very sweaty Joe Sparrow. And me, not quite as sweaty Eddie Argos.
Joe's Personal Connection to Chumbawamba
00:00:39
Speaker
I've just got off a bike and it's very humid today in our glamorous headquarters in Berlin. and So yeah, Dunstan Bruce, Chumbawamba. This was a really interesting conversation, wasn't it? Yeah, I especially liked it when you were saying to and then you sold hundreds of thousands of records in America and you had to crack to go.
00:00:59
Speaker
and sorry, it' it was six million. yeah he was he's a He's a very interesting man because first of all, he's been created for a very, very long time, ah starting out as a radical anarchist, doing the creative music band thing in a very, very unusual way from a squat and all this other stuff.
00:01:17
Speaker
But he's still, and i respect this, I agree with this, He remembered all the numbers of the stuff he sold. Because that is important at the end of the day, isn't it? Anyway, we talked about loads and loads of stuff. We talked about ah living in a squat and becoming successful, almost breaking up just before they became massive, and selling, i think, six or eight million records in the United States.
00:01:40
Speaker
And... um Yeah, I mean it's good for me just because, I mean, I love Chumbawamba, right? They're a bit of an influence on me. So it was also just nice to chat from a bit about that and stuff like that. I think I hid it quite well.
00:01:51
Speaker
You did. The second one in a row, actually, where you hid your affections quite well. But I didn't realise you were quite so taken by them. Whereas I think for me, actually, Chumbawamba were... on my radar, like my friends liked them, but they were just one of the other bands sort of that I enjoyed. They weren't one of my like real, I was so passionate about suede at the time. There's a bit of there' was a bit of a gap between Chumba Wumba and s suede, I guess, but it was great. Hey, he was great. Anyway, let's go to that interview right now.
00:02:19
Speaker
Here it is.
Dunstan's Early Life and Punk Influence
00:02:26
Speaker
Hello, Dunstan. You all right? but hi how are you doing? Good. I'm intrigued. I'm totally intrigued. Yeah, it's about how you started the band. We were mainly interested in the beginning of how bands form and how they met and that kind of stuff. And and you, as ah as a band, had ah a sort of a long fermentation phase, I would say.
00:02:47
Speaker
So the the primary question is then, who are you and why did you form a band? Ah, okay. My name is Dunstan Bruce. I grew up in a place called Billingham, which is in the northeast of England.
00:03:02
Speaker
and I'm old enough to have been around for when punk exploded. And I just, I mean, you must be bored of hearing... 60-something men saying, oh, punk changed my life, and that was it. It was never same again.
00:03:15
Speaker
But it's true. It was for me growing up in ah growing up in ah in a new town ah where there was nothing of much interest, and I wanted to get out of there as soon as possible. ah When punk came along, that just like that just changed everything, absolutely everything.
00:03:30
Speaker
um what what's What's happened recently, actually, I've noticed, is that people sort of start to admit what they were listening to before punk in a way that that so we didn't for years and years and years. Go on then. say well I had, I was listening to like, I say I was listening to Dr. Feelgood and stuff like that.
00:03:52
Speaker
Yes. I kind of, I was, but you know, I was listening to Yes and Genesis. Okay. And nobody likes to admit that, but it's like, it's almost so far gone now that you can sort of say, yeah, I was into prog rock. I was into prog rock.
00:04:07
Speaker
Was it like a total cut off, though? You're like, oh, no, that's done now. Now I'm a punk. Yes. yeah Absolute cut off, yeah. How did that feel? how How did that feel, like having your sort of musical world inverted? like Because that's ah that's that's as big a 180 as you can do, isn't it?
00:04:21
Speaker
Pretty much, yeah. But i think that was all tied in with the fact that you did immediately think, right, I'm going to buy a guitar. I can do this. You know, just seeing just seeing early punk bands and you just thought, wow, I could do this. Anybody could do this. Absolutely anybody could do this. You don't need to be that talented.
00:04:37
Speaker
Whereas before you'd always thought, I mean, like watching, you know, Not that I ever saw Yes or Genesis, but you know what? Well, was the old Grey Whistle Test, I suppose. Watching bands on the old Grey Whistle Test and seeing how indulgent that was, you just thought, well, I'll never, ever get to that stage where I'm that talented to be able to do something like that.
00:04:55
Speaker
um And so I never thought it was possible. Then when Punk came along, that just like made everything accessible in a way where it didn't really, those sort of things didn't matter anymore. So it was great seeing other people form bands and those bands be absolutely terrible because like not in a sort of Schadenfreude-Sotherway, but just in a sort like, wow, if they're doing it, we can do it. So that was that was a brilliant moment, really.
00:05:19
Speaker
What were the punk bands that you liked and you went to see? i inspired you to sort I went to see everyone, but and It's weird. i used to go to this place called Middlesbrough Rock Garden, which was a really dangerous place to go because so they did this weird thing at Middlesbrough Rock Garden, right, where they started doing a punk night.
00:05:39
Speaker
But they did the punk night on what was the bikers' night. Yeah, good. So the bikers were still there, so there were just fights every week. All in Middlesbrough skinheads, and then it was just carnage. It was totally carnage.
00:05:53
Speaker
But um it's funny, somebody posted the thing about ah the first time WIRE played there at Middlesbrough Rock Arts. And then I remember the gig really, really vividly because they'd released, they'd just put out Pink Flag And they came and they performed all of Chairs Missing.
00:06:12
Speaker
And it just pissed everybody um And I just thought it was the most amazing thing I'd ever seen. I just thought, this is brilliant. And at the end of the gig, one of them, i can't remember which one, went around and collected all the glasses that had been thrown at them.
00:06:25
Speaker
They were playing. And then got a massive pile and then just chucked them back into the audience and they didn't do an encore. And they didn't do 1-2-XU, which is obviously what everybody screamed for all the way through. So it was it was band's like it was bands like them. And the reason I moved to... ad then went When I went to Leeds, which was a few years later, it was because the Gang of Four and the Mekons were both from Leeds.
00:06:48
Speaker
And that was the sort of music that was into. It's really funny because I go... i I go to ah Rebellion Festival um occasionally because Interrobank play there.
00:07:00
Speaker
Interrobank, your new band? Yeah, yeah. We played there a couple of times. I showed the film there and stuff. But it's weird because that the the punk bands there and there are not the not the bands that I was ever, ever into.
00:07:14
Speaker
You know, like by about 79 or something, I was out of all that sort of, you know, like... you know like bands like UK subs I had no interest in, yeah that sort of genre.
00:07:27
Speaker
And you know, that's what regard as sort of like a second wave of like more ah simplistic punk, I suppose. I went off on a journey, you know, that involved bands like the pop group and the Slits and stuff like that, which is far more interesting.
Joining Chumbawamba and Band Evolution
00:07:42
Speaker
So how did you get from that point where someone who'd had their eyes open to the possibilities of music and thinking, oh, I can do this to Being in Chumbawumba where you were squatting and you had like a very clear political vision and you wanted to put that together with music.
00:08:04
Speaker
Yeah, so i'm at i i move to I eventually moved to Leeds in about 80, 81, something like that. And so I had a band with a friend who I'd moved to Leeds with and we put an advert in a music shop.
00:08:18
Speaker
to look for, ah we needed a bassist and a drummer. And on that advert, ah paul I it was like the thing that appealed to Boff, who saw the advert and then answered it, was it was because I'd ah' done this advert that wasn't just like, you know, you must be into this, this, and this.
00:08:34
Speaker
It listed sort weird cultural reference points There used to be this daytime TV show called House Party. It was was basically a forerunner to... What's that one where there's loads of women sat in the line?
00:08:47
Speaker
Loose women. Loose yeah. It was kind of a forerunner at Loose Women. And it was you know dead daytime TV. So I'd put on this thing like House Party and Coronation Street and Richie Benno and Corn Flakes.
00:09:04
Speaker
It was stuff like that. Because... They were like signifiers of a lifestyle. And, yeah you know, and what, and where you mentally, where you must be at. Yeah, yeah. To appeal to other people.
00:09:17
Speaker
So the bands I put on weren't as important. The bands were like Wire, Monochrome, Set Fall, stuff like that. But that one that wasn't what appealed to Boff. What appealed to Boff was seeing all these weird cultural references.
00:09:29
Speaker
Anyway, so I met Boff through that. And then he him and Damba had already started up a sort of a version of Chumbawamba. They were called Chumba Whaling at first.
00:09:40
Speaker
and then um and then And then I joined. I basically joined. Buff joins my band, but they were shit. And then i've joined I Chumba Whamber. And so it took off from there. So at that point, Buff and Danbert were like, ah they were from Burnley. They are from Burnley.
00:09:57
Speaker
They used to follow the fall absolutely everywhere. They'd seen them about 60 or 70 times. So they had that sort of mentality, you know, like about what the fall were about. And... and um so it was So it was really it was really ah easy for us to like come together as a band because we were all equally ah untalented.
00:10:19
Speaker
But we're really... you But add a sort of ah an attitude about you know what a band could be. So when we started off, it was more than that we were like...
00:10:31
Speaker
We were sort of anti-authoritarian in our and in a way, but we were like quite obsessed with not wanting to be like our parents in a way. so it was about trying to break a break a pattern, um break a trend because they'd, you know, it's been like from Northern industrial towns. There's not, there's not much, oh, what's the word? Ambition to do, you know, within that, within those towns to do, to do much or there wasn't back then. one of those classic things that if you can't see it, you can't be it. And if you if you don't see examples of what you hope to be, you don't really see the pathway to it.
00:11:08
Speaker
that's That's a very good point, yeah. Yeah, that's a really good point. i was so ah We both watched the documentary, i Get Knocked Down. And there's this quite, talking about that sort of transition to to being attracted to that, there's this kind of touching moment where there's a bit of archive footage of, I think, your dad's in a uniform receiving a medal.
00:11:26
Speaker
Yeah. A very sort traditional world kind of thing. And then you it cuts to you, an old video of you running through it ah town center during shopping time in women's underwear. Yeah, yeah. Which is, I think, a perfect ah sort of encapsulation of where you were going at that time. ah Yeah, that's that's a really good observation, yeah.
00:11:45
Speaker
Yeah, me dad got an OBE. Me dad was a fireman. My granddad was a fireman. My great granddad was a fireman. It was just what they all did. And, uh, my dad was, my dad was like quite got really high, ended up going up really high up.
00:12:01
Speaker
So he didn't understand. he had no understanding. He had no reference points. He had no understanding of what I i was into or what was about. And we clashed terribly. And, um, yeah, say it wasn't a very, it wasn't a very brilliant, uh, relationship that we had.
00:12:18
Speaker
And, um, And so getting away, getting away from Billingham was a really, really important thing. It was like an escape. but I was so desperate to get away. I went to work at Butlins in Bognor Regis. On stage or what?
00:12:34
Speaker
No, as a waiter. You weren't stage kind of jokes. You weren't like a, well, they got like a red coat or a blue coat or something. I wasn't even a red coat. Yeah, I was aware. So when I, so when I met Boff and Dumber, they'd obviously been through similar experiences.
00:12:46
Speaker
And I mean, and to be honest, all three of us had dropped out of university as well. Because that was a route at that time. That was a route out of where you where you grew up, was to go to university, to move you know to get out of where you were and and to experience ah somewhere new.
00:13:03
Speaker
and ah and so we'd And so we'd all we'd all sort of dropped out at various times doing ah various degrees. I did two years of an architecture degree. Right.
00:13:14
Speaker
Right. Yeah. I mean, i I didn't really learn much in it, but it gave me confidence to do graphic design, I suppose. so it was it was useful in some way. um was it Was it strange?
00:13:27
Speaker
I mean, you just sort went over really quickly. Like, oh, you like they were Chumba Wumba, and then your band wasn't as good, so you joined their band. and What was that conversation like? who Was it like, who asked who? Were you like, oh do you mind if I join your band? Were they like, um all fans not, do you want to? What happened was the band that was in with me mate and Boff came and joined. We did we did a gig.
00:13:48
Speaker
We did one gig. And we had these sort quirky songs that were so about daytime TV, really. It was quite a pattern here. Dropping out of university, daytime TV. Yeah, we did one gig. And that and I think,
00:14:03
Speaker
Me and Boff in particular, it it was weird. Me and Boff realised that we were really shit, that he was really shit. And they were this, but, and, oh, yeah, that's what happened.
00:14:14
Speaker
Steve, who was the other guy, ah yeah When we got to the gig, he had a silk scarf hanging off the end of his guitar. And he was like, okay, that's it. Game over. We're finished. This is never going to work.
00:14:28
Speaker
And we did the gig, and it was it was terrible, and we were awful. and then And then at that point, I think I'd started... Oh, I think I was sleeping like sleeping on um the boss settee at that point where he, where both and Danbert lived. So I was so, so I'd sort of ingratiate myself into their so lifestyle in a way.
00:14:51
Speaker
And then, and so it was just like, it was so quite organic that he just, that that then there was no conversation where it was like, do you want to be in the band? um yes please okay it was more like it was more like oh look we're going to dance to you know it's when it was when you used to put egg boxes on walls in in the you know the the vague vain attempt to sort like cut out sound yeah and so we'd go down to the basement and start you know and rehearse them out and that became so it was it's all quite organic
Chumbawamba's Lifestyle and Ideals
00:15:20
Speaker
and then what happened is with we found that we found this um we found this house to squat
00:15:26
Speaker
And it was some friends of ours had lived there, and they moved out one summer and just abandoned it And so we it got totally wrecked, but then we moved in we moved into it, and then that became the hub, you know, the central hub.
00:15:39
Speaker
And then for so for a while, anybody who moved to the house kind of joined the band, in a way. It became sort of like an open house for a while. Like like the monkeys. but I'd wish that to entry, Chumbawamba, like in a house. yes Wacky, stylized 1960s adventures of Chumbawamba. That would be good. Well, I mean, it's weird, because um we were really dedicated. You know, we really wanted the band to work. and we were really dedicated. It was cult-like.
00:16:04
Speaker
I think we say in the film, you know, though it was like a cult for a while. And it was, you know, it was. It was really like a cult because we all pretty quickly became vegans. And being a vegan in the 80s, early 80s, was, you know, was like quite a big...
00:16:18
Speaker
It was quite a big step and it was quite a radical thing to do in a way, but we involved in a lot of activism as well. So we were like, you know, we were, we were doing animal liberation stuff and, um, and breaking into places and that. So we had this like, so all this, all this sort of political activity going on at the same time.
00:16:37
Speaker
Uh, and then we were trying to do the band as well. how did that How do you manage that then? Because you've got, you know, this, let's say, anarcho-communist collective, right?
00:16:48
Speaker
And living it been in it with very clear vision and doing these things that are radical and ah having strong and clear political and direction. And then you're saying, now let's go and rehearse all together. And then we're going to somehow squeeze this huge concept into music. Yeah.
00:17:08
Speaker
Like, how did that work out practically? um
00:17:14
Speaker
So initially it was a bit sort of like, i mean there were about four of us, four or five of us who wrote, who wrote lyrics early on. And I mean, there's some those lyrics are probably quite embarrassing now because they were really, um, what's the word, you know, sincere and like a bit, bit too, bit too like worthy, I guess.
00:17:34
Speaker
you Um, and we, so we, so it would be, you would turn up with your really worthy lyrics and then we would have to work out how to turn into a song. um Because Chumawamba were a band, even up until the day you know we we split as an electric band, where three of us really couldn't sing.
00:17:54
Speaker
you know We weren't singers. And unfortunately, those three people were the three front pipe, but different which was just crazy. So me, Danbert, and Alice, We're not, I mean, me and Alice in particular couldn't sing to save our lives and still can't.
00:18:08
Speaker
And Dambo had his own idiosyncratic style of singing ah that didn't really work in Chumbawamba. um But we had to so we had to construct songs that included everybody.
00:18:21
Speaker
you know So you couldn't, you know, like in in that sort anarcho-communist sort ideal where everybody was equal, you know, we all had to have a role in that. And so that took that took a bit of time sort of work out, because initially it that we were so obsessed with that idea that anybody could play any instruments. So we were swapping instruments all the time.
00:18:43
Speaker
And that was... What was that like on stage then? What was your like first, as part of Chumbawamba, what was your first experience on stage like?
Performance Style and Community Connection
00:18:50
Speaker
Really intense. if you if you when you see When you see early footage of Chumbawamba, in fact, there's some early footage in that film, which isn't even, that's about 84 or 85 you see in the film.
00:18:59
Speaker
It doesn't look as though we're having any fun at all. It does not look as though we're enjoying it. You would not think that we used to piss about all the time when you watched that footage. You just think you would not want to hang out with us because we look so serious and so static.
00:19:17
Speaker
on stage I think we thought we were so anti-rock and roll that we thought we couldn't we couldn't do any tropes that were traditional rock and roll moves.
00:19:29
Speaker
Now, when you watch, I mean, I watched a James Brown documentary the other night. And, you know, watching him move on stage is just absolutely incredible.
00:19:40
Speaker
yeah We thought that was like, oh, that's so that's so mainstream, so, you know, industry. like We're going to just stand still and say what we can. That's the excuse use for not dancing like this. I could do it, I don't want to do it. I've got the ability. I just choose not ah but When, when did it first, like, so you're playing in Jumbawamba and it's, you're being serious, very serious. and well When, when did it first, like, oh, this is a thing.
00:20:07
Speaker
was like a moment in your head when it like clicked, like, oh, here we go. This is, there's something here. We can do this. This is a real. thing um I think it was that would probably tied in with actually, you know, gain validation from people who, you know, like for the first two or three years, we used to just used to do benefit gigs.
00:20:27
Speaker
We'd be, we asked to do benefit gigs all the time. And we realized that, you know, and so, You know, back then there was an, i mean, maybe maybe you remember this, but there was a net before the internet, you know, people used to write to each other and you'd write to other bands or you'd write to, and we we appeared on this album.
00:20:46
Speaker
Crass did these albums called Bullshit Detector and we were on Bullshit Detector too. And so when we when that came out, we thought we wrote to every other band that was on that album.
00:20:58
Speaker
because in those days, people put their address on the on records and you could just write them. And so we wrote to everybody and just thought, look, we can make this be something. you know Let's not just appear on this album and that be it.
00:21:10
Speaker
And so we sort of a you know we became part of a community, you know this anarcho-punk community where everybody soaped. Do you remember soaping stamps? Did you used to soap your stamps?
00:21:23
Speaker
I've never soaped a stamp. is it Is that a euphemism? No. No, no. It was a thing back in the early eighties. You used to, you put, you get a stamp, you put it on, a you put it on and then you'd, you'd, you'd get like a bar or so and you'd rub the bar of soap over it.
00:21:36
Speaker
And so when it got to the other end and it looked like it had been stamped, wash it off. and you read the stairs you should read yeah Brilliant. And then, and then what happened was like, um, that sort of matte sellotape came into being,
00:21:51
Speaker
And that did the same sort of job. You had to really carefully cut out a piece of that sellotape and sellotape it. So then you could then you could just wipe off the stamp of the poster. I do remember from the days of postage stamps, of the illicit thrill of a letter arriving and it hadn't been frank. And you could reuse that. You could reuse that stamp. Yeah, so you used to write to people and you'd say, you know at the end of the letter, you'd say, you know um so don't forget to sew up your stamps.
00:22:18
Speaker
Yeah. that' nothing this totally thing Anyway, that became a community. So it became a whole com community. And so, um, and so we realized that we were getting offered lots of, you know, we just sort realized we were sort of getting offered lots of gigs. And so we thought, well, this is sort of working and we were doing something and we were in a world, right? The anarcho-punk world was like, I mean, I mean, it's, it's sort of like, it was like quite a, it's a niche market obviously.
00:22:43
Speaker
And it was very serious and it was very shouting. Um, We, we got, we, we, after a few years of shouting at everybody, we thought, we don't want to, we don't want to shout to everybody.
00:22:56
Speaker
We've got people in the band who can sing and can harmonize. And, Why don't we bring the humor that we're using, you know, that's part of our everyday, why don't we bring that into the band rather than just trying to be really serious?
00:23:12
Speaker
So i think I think the first, we wrote this song that was about, um you know, if there was a nuclear explosion, because everybody back then was terrified by, you know, that we were all going to die. yeah so And so we wrote so we wrote this song that was a joke about, you know,
00:23:28
Speaker
what you needed if ah you know if there was a nuclear explosion. Because there's this thing about how you made a lean-to out of ah doors. You had three doors, went against a wall or something.
00:23:39
Speaker
Or you painted your windows, which is somehow going to save you and stuff like that. Paint the the well-known repellent of radiation. Radiation repellent paint that you could get from b q um so we have this so we So we wrote a song about about, and it was just like saying how ridiculous it was that this isn't going to save us. We're all you know stupid.
00:24:01
Speaker
um instead of Instead of singing a song about the horrors of war, but ah you know because like Anarcho punk bands were obsessed with Hiroshima and Nagasaki and stuff like that. They used to write songs about that all the time.
00:24:13
Speaker
And so it was like, how horrific can your lyrics possibly be? And so we went completely the other way and started writing lyrics that um had humour in them.
00:24:24
Speaker
And so and and that meant that that was a massive sea change. And I think it came at a time when people were ready for that. I think people were sick of listening to bands just saying, you know, we're all going to die.
00:24:36
Speaker
And and i so I think we sort of... blossomed in this world and also you know like and we were singing we weren't just shouting anymore or screaming and i think and to be honest i think the majority of people actually do like a tune you know yeah melody is notoriously popular yeah yeah you who knew who knew because you got to find out that the hard way did you know you had a very long process as a band from you know a long career but all of this is sort of inextricably leading towards the moment of enormous breakthrough at the end of the nineties, which is sort of whether you want to talk about it that way or not, it's, it's, it's the elephant in the room, but you had this very long process before that point.
00:25:21
Speaker
And we were talking before we we spoke today, but you know, another band around that time was Pulp. Oh yes. yeah Part of the world were around for a very, very long time, releasing great records, building up an audience, but didn't have that huge breakthrough till later.
00:25:34
Speaker
So did you ever feel like giving up in that phase? No, not
Success in Europe and Media Challenges
00:25:38
Speaker
at all. Because from about 91 to... So something happened in 97.
00:25:45
Speaker
The 90s for us were were were probably were for me, actually, I'll think for myself, with the with but the best was the best time to be in Chumbawamba.
00:25:56
Speaker
Because we made a decision that we were going to do it full time. And we'd worked out. We'd worked out how to do it And we worked out how to change our shows into like, that that they felt more like celebrations rather than, you know, we'd got over that political dogma thing and we were having a lot of fun with it.
00:26:17
Speaker
And, you know, we, we, we use theater a lot and that, that, was that was really good fun. And we were bigger in Europe than we were in the UK. Probably we we did really well in the UK, but Europe, Germany, um, Austria, Switzerland, um, uh, Northern Europe.
00:26:38
Speaker
We were just, we, we just did really well there. And even in Eastern Europe, we were going to Eastern Europe really early on. ah like Poland and Czech Republic, well, it Czechoslovakia then, I suppose, and Hungary.
00:26:52
Speaker
You know, we were we were we were able to to to go to those countries. So it was a massive adventure. It was a really brilliant adventure. And we were we were self-sufficient.
00:27:03
Speaker
We were, you know, we were doing all ourselves. We all, the thing with Chumawamba was like, um I know it seems stupid like comparing ourselves to Public Enemy. for knows one please I mean, I'm sure everyone does. Yeah, we all had jobs.
00:27:17
Speaker
You know, everybody had another job in the band, you know, so you weren't just in the band. You were like, so I too managed. And so alice did all Alice did all the press. Just a minute. I've just got someone at the door. Okay.
00:27:36
Speaker
Okay, while Dunstan is away answering his door, a quick reminder that stay tuned once we've finished speaking to him, and we will rummage through the Argos catalogue ah where we dig into Eddie's life, and ah this time we find out exactly how many members of the Wu-Tang Clan Eddie has rubbed shoulders with. All that coming up after we've spoken to Dunstan, who is coming back right now. Yeah, and so there were some people who were musicians in the band and some people who weren't.
00:28:03
Speaker
and And so we all had different roles. um And it was just like... It just felt really... it just felt really c iy And it felt as though we were in complete control of our our own destiny, in a way.
00:28:16
Speaker
And so, you know, and and so, like, we'd become in... You know, like we used to do like, we used to do like two nights at SL 36, you know, we could sell out two nights there. It was just, you know, and it was just amazing. Then we go back to the UK and we couldn't get in any, you know, we couldn't get in the music c press at all.
00:28:33
Speaker
No one was interested in us over there. There was only Seething Wells. It was the only journalist who would ever write about us. Why was that? Because I, I also before part of the research before this, I found a a melody maker review, live review.
00:28:47
Speaker
Oh yeah. of Chumbawamba from 1995. And I'll read you a bit of it in it and in a moment. it It is not but a positive review. No, no, they never were. But I'm interested why that was. Because if you had... You did have... Okay, so you were a... You were a band that had a very specific audience, which today the desired outcome for every artist, right? They want a very narrow audience, right? But you had that, and it was working in that sense, but...
00:29:16
Speaker
there the press were not on your side. we didn't have any sense. What did that feel like from someone who's still forming the band, if you like? it was um it was frustraing It was frustrating at first. it was frustrating to see that we were we were like... You know, like our first single that we must have released in about 85 or 86...
00:29:38
Speaker
It was in John Peel's Festive 50 top 10. right so Number six or something, I think in his Festive 50....primitive painters from Felt.
00:29:49
Speaker
At number six, and I was very pleased to see this do well, Chumbawambo.
00:30:10
Speaker
So we had a massive fan base, you know, and people who liked what we would well likes what we were doing and that. But for some reason, i don't know whether it was i don't know there is because we were um that we were saying stuff that was um probably we were so... We were probably criticising the music press from day one.
00:30:32
Speaker
you know, for whatever reason, for being ah ah for being too mainstream or something, I don't know, or feeling as though they decided who was going to be successful or not.
00:30:43
Speaker
I mean, levelers had Level is who we we did ah we played with quite a lot in the early 90s. They had the same had the same problem. ah The music press hated hated them as well, and we were sort of lumped in.
00:30:54
Speaker
You know, there was a few bands who were all lumped in together. Why were you hated? Why were we hated? ah don't know, because... so i wonder I wondered if it was because we were very certain about what we what we thought and where we stood within the muse and within you know the music scene and that.
00:31:17
Speaker
And we were very critical. We were very critical of a lot of... ah I mean, we did well you know we did things early on that I sort cringe at a little bit. We were so... you know... Right, right. I mean, I shouldn't really tell you this because I'm a soul. We're a embarrassed about it now. Because, you know, because i because Joe Strummer is everybody's hero.
00:31:37
Speaker
um back Back when they did... Back in the 80s, he did like this ah he did this... He did this tour of venues where he played outside for free.
00:31:47
Speaker
And it was after Mick Jones had left, and I think... Topper was definitely not not in them. I don't know Paul Simen was still with them. Anyway, they went around doing these gigs outside venues. People loved it, absolutely loved it.
00:32:00
Speaker
We were still angry, this is ironic, that they were that they were signed to CBS. who were like a major label. And so Danbert turned up at this ah this this thing with this device, and he splashed them with their red paint.
00:32:17
Speaker
ah because And held up a banner about them being signed to CBS, which was like so niche. I mean, who would have understood that? was just It was just mad.
00:32:28
Speaker
And Joe Strummer then went on to do like a tour for Class War. So just it was just i really all awkward, but that's but it was stuff like that. But you were very passionate, right? you You were just very passionate about what you believed in. And you were in a gang in in this house, so I guess you were just together, like feeling this energy, I guess.
00:32:48
Speaker
I suppose we were... I mean, i mean i know a lot of bands talk about this and say it, but we were a gang. We were definitely a gang, and it was a really close-knit gang.
00:32:59
Speaker
you know, group of people. And so you got a lot of validation from each other, you know, like stuff you did and that. I think that's part of what attracted me to Chimbal Wumba when I was younger. Like when I first thought, this is a brilliant band. I think it was, you seem like a gang.
00:33:12
Speaker
And it's really interesting to hear like how will that happened, you know, the the way you put like cultural things in your, in your advert for finding band members, how you took different jobs in the band, how you,
00:33:23
Speaker
yeah and i it's just pretty and Yeah, so that's why you felt like a gang, I guess. But you were a gang, basically. How long were you in the squat? How long in that period were you living in that squat? And how central was that to your gang mentality? and and this Oh, it was massively central, yeah. we must So we moved in there about 82.
00:33:38
Speaker
Alice didn't move out until about 1999, I think. Yes, she did not want to she did not want to leave. She tried to buy it, if in fact. She tried to buy it, but it was tune the house itself was falling down, and it would have cost her too much or something, so she didn't so she ended up not buying it.
00:33:55
Speaker
But she stayed there until 1999. So the house was still a central hub, even though some people moved out in the late 80s or early 90s that.
00:34:05
Speaker
You know, people sort drifted off as they got partners and, you know, and wanted to live, you know, separately and that. But Alice stay have just stayed there. She'd probably still be there now if she could be, but...
00:34:19
Speaker
but um But that was, that i mean, as being in, because he will we, you know, we we used to joke about the fact that our meetings were longer than our rehearsals. Like, but that's true. You know, we'd have a massive agenda that we'd have to work through.
00:34:34
Speaker
And then we'd be like, oh, right, should we, we better rehearse then, you know, we better go and rehearse. Was everything voted on? Did you have a sort of... No, it wasn't voted on. No, it was like, um it was it was it was if if somebody ah vehemently disagreed with something, and then they could veto it.
00:34:56
Speaker
Right. So it wasn't like, so we would never go, right, you know, who's in favor of that? We had to talk it. That's why i'm easy meetings took so long, because we had to talk it out. and And work out. And if somebody was was violently against something, then we would have to find an alternative or work out how that could work.
00:35:13
Speaker
um But generally generally, we all pulled in the same direction. I mean, it was like most political organizations that there would be little, um what do you call it, where you have a little group within a group group.
00:35:27
Speaker
you know, like a little clique or something. don't You know, cliques would form, or you know. and Factions. for Yeah, yeah. So, they would you know, there would be a bit of that going on. And obviously some people were more vocal than others in in the group.
00:35:39
Speaker
It's really weird. We had to have just about a month ago, we had to have a discussion about signing a new contract for something.
00:35:51
Speaker
Because we still make, you know, we still make a living from Chumbawamba. um And we had to, we were, I think we were re-licensing the, all the back catalog or something.
00:36:03
Speaker
And so we had to, so we had to zoom me in. And it was ah it was six of us. It was like the sort of the hardcore six sort of thing. And so everyone just fell back into the exact same roles, even though it were like 30 years ago.
00:36:18
Speaker
You know, somebody was like sure that they were right. Somebody else was like really opinionated about something. Somebody else was really uncertain about something and was didn't want to do anything.
00:36:31
Speaker
And then I was just annoying. he was just that And then two other people were just quiet, you know, and they were always quiet, you know. Wow, interesting. but ah Was it that kind of conversation when you were on your own label for a bit at the beginning and then you sort of you eventually signed to EMI eventually?
Signing with EMI and 'Tubthumping' Success
00:36:47
Speaker
right but yeah like Did you have this kind of conversation?
00:36:50
Speaker
Was it like that then? Did you have this this of awkward six of you deciding what you were you just like, we're going to sign to them, we're going to be pop stars? What was the EMI thing? Yeah. when you tell your mind That was massive. That was a massive conversation.
00:37:02
Speaker
Obviously, because in the film, as you know, we were we appeared on a Fuck EMI compilation album. um I was going to ask about this. yeah Talk about another 180 turn from yeah i'm a fucking AMI compilation to actually signing for EMI. I know, yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? How did the opportunity come about, though? Because i'm I'm sort of interested in that 90s period. you're You're building an audience. You've got...
00:37:24
Speaker
You know, you've you've got a certain people know your music, but then that still seems like a big leap to go to EMI, the fourth major label.
00:37:35
Speaker
Yeah, i think I think what had happened is that we we'd had our own label. We started off having our own label, Adjitpro, and that was really that was that was that was amazing. We put our few albums through that. with through that and then um and then we had a bad experience with southern studios in london that didn't go so well and so we ended up that we then ended up on one little indian as they were called back then and we knew derek because he used to be in flux of pink indians
00:38:07
Speaker
And we played with Flux of Pink Indians back in the 80s. So we were mates. We were still mates. and Anyway, we signed to One Little Indian. And that didn't really go that well.
00:38:20
Speaker
um Partly because... Derek would just say yes to everything. And then his business partner would just say, no, next week his business partner would get in touch and go, no, you're not doing that. You can't do that.
00:38:34
Speaker
And so so didn't it didn't really work out. And then, um so what actually happened was that, I don't think this story's in the film, actually. What actually happened was that um we'd we'd recorded but to the Tub Thumper album with Tub Thumping on.
00:38:50
Speaker
And we took that album to One Little Engine And they said it was they said we had to go away and re-record it. ah well Or they were going to get someone like Langer and Winstanley in to produce it.
00:39:03
Speaker
and And we'd always produced our own records. We'd always done the whole thing. So we were appalled that they thought that this wasn't good enough. and so And so we left.
00:39:14
Speaker
So we left One Little Indian. We're just like, right, that's it. This this relationship's over. and so but then we And we didn't have any way of putting out that album. And so we had these were these old friends, Doug and Eve, who who but became our managers.
00:39:28
Speaker
They'd managed bands like Hawkwind and Earl School and stuff like that. And Motorhead and stuff like that. um And so they were a bit older. they were really So they were really laid back about the whole thing. But they knew they knew everybody in the industry.
00:39:44
Speaker
So they sent out this sampler to everybody. And the one person who jumped on it and absolutely loved it was Jonathan King. Wow.
00:39:54
Speaker
wow And at the time, Jonathan King did ah ah an industry-only magazine called The Tip Sheet. and it was and he And he used to put a ah CD on it every every issue of tracks that he was really into.
00:40:10
Speaker
And he loved tub thumping so much. He put it on this CD about three times. So generated loads of interest within the industry. So then we started to get loads of ah offers, you know, like ah people saying this record is going to be, this is going to be a hit.
00:40:27
Speaker
And we were like, is it? And they were like, yeah, this is, this is brilliant. And so we had, we ended up getting all these record offers and And so we had a massive conversation. So that scene in the film where it's me talking to myself about EMI and that, we did it like that because...
00:40:48
Speaker
We tried to have a conversation amongst us all for the film about assigning to EMI. And I think people still felt a bit uncomfortable about it. i So they weren't as open as as well.
00:40:59
Speaker
and And some people, and and to be honest, some people sort of slightly changed their stories but but back then, you know, like, so it was a bit, so it was a bit odd. So I thought, look, the only way i'm going to be able to do this is by me taking responsibility for what everybody's saying. But so there was, so there was, we had lots and lots of discussions about it, but what happened is we signed to EMI Germany.
00:41:21
Speaker
Um, and that's because we were massive in Germany at the time in the, in the mid nineties. And so EMI Germany, they didn't have the same sort of like history in a way, you know, they were like a bit more, they they were a bit like, uh,
00:41:35
Speaker
a bit more liberal about their approach to signing us, that they had to then sell us back to EMR UK. We did not want us at all. And that was just really awkward.
00:41:47
Speaker
So... But EMI Germany's offer, of all the offers we got, weirdly, was the one that gave us the most artistic freedom. It was weird.
00:41:58
Speaker
They said we could decide everything. we know what's seeing What was the thing what was follow-up singles? We could still do all the artwork. We could still decide when we were going to tour and all sorts. So they didn't they were really hands-off.
00:42:11
Speaker
I guess they didn't want to break what was already working, right? Well, exactly that, yeah yeah. So they were smart in that way. that they didn't try and you know They didn't try and make us be something that we weren't somewhere.
00:42:27
Speaker
It's really nice to hear that you just, that you just, you like, you made it like you make all your other records. You hadn't, there was no grand plan. You weren't like, oh, this is the one full of pop songs. It just became that because you just carried on your own path. and But that's that's the interesting part that, I mean, took look, Top of the Thing was so big.
00:42:44
Speaker
I mean, it was, you know, I watched the, I watched the documentary last night and that song has been in my head for 24 hours now. Sorry. No. so no but but But it's made me really realize how just it's it's one of those very rare songs that just worms its way into your head and it stays there and it stays there and then it sells 300,000 copies in the USA. you know like it You can see how that works.
00:43:05
Speaker
yeah And I also was thinking when I was listening to Joe, can I just correct you there? oh It didn't sell 300,000 copies in the USA. It didn't? No, it sold about 6 million.
00:43:16
Speaker
Sorry. Then i stand I stand very correct. Yes. Actually, that was the album, not the single, actually. Those figures are enormous, right? Because because the song was so ubiquitous and it got in your head.
00:43:30
Speaker
But also, i was listening to it and it sounds... It sounds... It has that classic pop sound of the production, the the structure. It's that kind of...
00:43:43
Speaker
it yeah I'm not saying it's an anomaly in your catalogue, but it's suddenly, from from from all the other songs you'd done, it was just something, this diamond popped out. you know well Well, that's interesting because we've had, not arguments, but we've had discussions about was was Tub Thumping Inevitable.
00:44:03
Speaker
Or was it an accident? Was it a total accident? yeah and And so I always came down on the accident side because we never planned to have a hit record. But Boff would argue that um we were all we were getting closer and closer and closer to to that happening.
00:44:24
Speaker
And there's a song... So there's a song that we did a couple of years previously called Mouthful of Shit, which, yeah, which weirdly I was, i i was sort of comparing it to in a way because the structure is exactly, the is exactly it's exactly, has all the same elements, you know, like a, a, a, a speaky verse, a chanty chorus, a little bit that Lou sings in the middle, yeah you know, that links, that links all the bits and it does, x it does exactly the same thing, but it was called Mouthful of Shit.
00:45:10
Speaker
so um I was going to disagree with Joe because I think the first i remember the first time I heard Tubthumping I already like Chumbawamba can't remember quite late because I'm I'm young. like I was like 14 when "Anarchy" came out. But like I got into retroactively and then I heard Tubthumping on the radio and i was like, some band is ripping off Chumbawamba, man.
00:45:29
Speaker
That sounds exactly like Chumbawamba. They're going to be pissed. Some band is going to have a massive hit with this Chumbawamba song. And then then it was Chumbawamba. I was like, oh, amazing. It sounds like you. it sounds like It doesn't sound any different to me than other Chumbawamba. It just sounds like Chumbawamba. It has all the elements. It does have all the elements.
00:45:48
Speaker
It's interesting thing, isn't it? Because it is Chumbawamba, but it's also it's connecting with people who would never, ever have connected in the traditional way with Chumbawamba before. but it might I mean, that might also be the fact that the lyrics are more general, ah more universal,
00:46:07
Speaker
they They're probably the most universal lyrics that we ever wrote, i suppose. And I suppose I attribute that to why it's it it worked it worked, because anybody could relate to it You didn't have to take sides.
00:46:20
Speaker
When you look back now on that sort of, that say that let's say that whole period is of forming a band, which is what we're sort talking about. And there wass obviously quite a long gestation period, and then you had the success period of the 90s, and then you had, let's break it down to three basic chunks, then the big success at the end.
00:46:38
Speaker
i'm I'm saying the from the outside perspective that success is when you sell six million copies of a song in the USA. But when you were in there, what felt like the point of success for the first time when you went, oh, I'm now in a band, it's successful, it's working, and this is success for me?
00:46:54
Speaker
Well, I think we'd already had that moment in the mid-90s. Yeah. Then, like, touring then, going wherever we want buy wherever we wanted in Europe and selling out all of shows all over then.
00:47:08
Speaker
and In fact... but first The first time we got a sleeper coach felt like a success. Because until then, we'd had a splitter van, you know, that was like grueling because you'd sleep in the town that you played and then you'd drive all day to the next venue.
00:47:24
Speaker
so So that that felt like a moment. But I think the tub-thumping years, you know, that period lasted about two years, I guess. And I don't think there was ever a point where we thought, fantastic, we've made it.
00:47:40
Speaker
You know, this is this is amazing. Because once you get in that world, it's it's just, it's not as enjoyable in a way. because Because we were a bit older, you know, we'd been around the block a bit.
00:47:52
Speaker
You know, we were sort of mid to late thirty s by when that when all that happened. And so, and so really, ah the moments where we thought this is, this is absolutely brilliant. And it's really funny is obviously the, uh, uh, you know, Prescott at the Brits, right? Because that was a moment where we thought,
00:48:12
Speaker
We would have never been able to do this if we would if we were if we hadn't had a hit single, I suppose. this not your Your bandmate, Dan, dumped a load of ice-cold water over the deputy prime minister. Yes, as did Alice Nutter, but she didn't get arrested.
00:48:25
Speaker
ah okay, good. Yeah, yeah. Dan got all the press and got all the all the grief about it, yeah. In fact, in the film, you can see there's some photographs of it, and you can see Alice in the background laughing. She'd done it as well as well, but she got away with it.
00:48:38
Speaker
um So it was, I mean, I think it was... a lot of this A lot of the... I mean, it's hard to talk about without sounding really worthy. ah so as suppose that's the problem for me, is that. because Because in that period, when we started making money, we gave a lot of money away.
00:48:54
Speaker
um And that just felt like... That just felt really good. That's a really nice feeling, you know, like... I remember being on tour. I don't know. I was playing Trimbo Wumba a lot at the beginning of our group. I think when we were touring around a lot, so I'd end up talking about Trimbo Wumba to like the promoters in Italy and stuff.
00:49:08
Speaker
And I'd be like, oh, they're amazing. They gave all this money to like Anika's radio stations. And guys would be like, yeah, yeah. I was in the Anika's radio station. It's true. like be Like verifying my stories. Like, yeah, I, one day this money just turned up from Trimbo Wumba. It was amazing. It like saved the station, all this kind of stuff.
00:49:23
Speaker
So like, I heard all these, i was playing quite a lot Trimbo Wumba, I think. like when wed rather I was always in conversation about Trimbo Wumba for some reason. Yeah. people There was a, all like verifying it. Like, yeah, yeah. It saved our community radio station.
00:49:34
Speaker
All these amazing things that you did was sort of fed back to me. It was kind of amazing. yeah as a number of fact Is that what you see as a success point now?
Redistribution of Earnings and Activism
00:49:40
Speaker
And if if you look back to it, I think so. Cause I think, you know, I, I think that was, that was a point in which I felt as though we were doing loads of good, you know, like in the film, like in the film, when I say that with Amy Goodman,
00:49:55
Speaker
You know, i'm a Baby Edge immediately puts me down about it, you know, but that's just because he felt as though was, like, bragging about what we'd done. But that that around that period, we used to have meetings,
00:50:08
Speaker
We always had meetings. We had meetings where we would like decide how much we were going to give away, and then we'd have to split that money up. And we'd have that meetings every three months, you know and we'd work out.
00:50:20
Speaker
We'd get loads of requests. I mean, we got loads and loads of requests, and some we'd do and some we wouldn't. But then we'd break it all down into, you know, well who to give money to and who not. And so at that point, it really felt like and we were doing something really good.
00:50:33
Speaker
And then the, so the General Motors thing was like, was like, ah was like kind of the pinnacle of that, you know, when we like decided to start taking money for adverts and then just giving it, giving it away.
00:50:45
Speaker
So it felt like... But General Motors specifically, you took money from the advert and then gave the money back to it an organization that was monitoring the work practices of General Motors. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. we were like really into like so you know like we were really into like situationism and stuff like that and pranks and stuff like that.
00:51:02
Speaker
And that just felt like a really good example of that. So I think it's like, you know, there's that interview with Cailin Moran in the film, like some old archive footage of her slagging off Jumbawamba.
00:51:15
Speaker
Yeah. yeah all In that interview, in that in the in the longer version of that interview, she read I mean, she just slags us off all the time. She said that you weren't good doing music and you weren't good at doing protest either. know, yeah, I know.
00:51:28
Speaker
Which is really oh really damning. Yeah. And untrue. and untrue and I mean, she could an opinion she could have an opinion on whether she thought the music was any good.
00:51:42
Speaker
But, I mean, it's just wrong, that. i've got I've got here, the this is the the contemporaneous ah ah review in The Melody Maker. Oh, who's it by This is from 1995. This is written by a journalist, Ben Wilmot.
00:51:55
Speaker
a and so Okay, you were touring at this time with the Cardiacs. ah ah Ben ah had seen you at the Worcester Northwick. And the review begins like this.
00:52:07
Speaker
ah Why did Chumbawumba and the Cardiacs go on tour together? So the music press would only need one bomb. ah just I mean, that's that's about as brutal as a starting. The second sentence is, you'd be hard pushed to find two bands more reviled than Chumbawamba and the Cardiacs.
00:52:24
Speaker
The thought of them on the same bill would be enough to drive plenty of journalists to emigrate or at least commit homicide.
00:52:32
Speaker
So that's 1995. Yeah. two years, you were selling six million records. yeah. yeah I'll send you that so you can really enjoy the whole thing.
00:52:44
Speaker
Yeah. In, um, in, uh, 1999, we made a, we made her like a, like documentary that was sort of a forerunner to, I get knocked down. That was called well done now sod off.
00:52:58
Speaker
Yeah. And in that, we set up we we we set up this production company, this fake production company. And we got in touch with all the journalists who had written bad reviews ever about Chumbawamba and said that we were making a documentary about ah um what music was going to be like in the 21st century.
00:53:19
Speaker
It was like it was like we were doing ah ah a doc about that for TV. and um And we had a list of questions, about 20 questions. And we got a friend of ours, an actor friend of ours, to go and be the presenter.
00:53:34
Speaker
And we got about eight of them to agree to be interviewed for this documentary. And only one question was about Chumbawamba. just mentioned Chumbawamba in passing.
00:53:45
Speaker
The rest was just really vague stuff about music and that. And all those journalists just jumped on it, just totally jumped on the mention of Chumbawamba and really just laid, just completely laid into us.
00:53:59
Speaker
And it was, uh, and then, so that's where that's the day. Some of them ended up in the, in that documentary, but then we reused them for, uh, for this one because I love them.
00:54:10
Speaker
I love them so much. seriously You know, it's just awful half sample, jumpy shouty tragedy. They're at the collection of, ah ludicrous elderly anarchist boars who've been banging on since shortly after the Peasants' Revolt about how if only everybody would listen to what they were saying and buy their records, then we would bring down the global capitalist system.
00:54:31
Speaker
it's they're pretty you know There was Catlin Moran, there was David Quantic. He's a big big name. Yeah, yeah. thing that you're saying right and What was he called? Thingy Harris? John Harris. I don't think he's in... i don't think he's in...
00:54:44
Speaker
ah I get knocked on, but he was he was actually he was one of them as well. Actually, he wasn't too bad actually. He said what that it was the best that we could have expected for a band signing to EMI or something.
00:54:57
Speaker
But yeah, there were some people who were Tommy Udo, he signed us off. It must have been the opposite effect on me, though. I'm like, why then why was I so... How did I get into Chumbawamba? Was I like reading these bad reviews being like, fuck that, this sounds amazing. It must have been that. How did retroactively get into Chumbawamba? It's weird how that review was with Cardiacs because people absolutely adore the Cardiacs, don't they? didn like me They absolutely ah worshipped you know, the, the, uh, as a, as a band and a way that I don't think Chumbawamba necessarily, you don't feel that about Chumbawamba.
00:55:32
Speaker
What was, what's been really rewarding about doing the film actually is going around and showing the film and doing Q and A's afterwards and realizing that there's a generation of people who still think that Chumbawamba was important and made a difference and stuff like that.
00:55:46
Speaker
So that was really, reward really, really rewarding doing that. That's why I enjoyed seeing it in the cinema here so much. I think it was, it was that it was like being in a room full of people and me being like, ah, these are, these are my guys. like We all, we all liked the same thing. And you know, mean, I was 14 when I started listening to drum, 15, 16, maybe.
00:56:04
Speaker
And like, I didn't know what Brecht or situationism was, or, you know, like in one of the things, I think one of the records were sort You're being mean about Billy Bragg about something. I'm like, a but he's a he's a good guy. I mean, it really like made me sort start thinking about socialism and stuff in a different way. words you know like What's going on? Or like, you know,
00:56:21
Speaker
My limited knowledge of Bob Dylan and stuff suddenly give the anarchists a cigarette. was like, what's this about? Like all this stuff kind of really fermented in my brain. It was like, I mean, we're pretty much the same age. And when I was at school at that time and the people who were really into Chumbawamba, who also were into the levelers and new model army and those, there's that kind of those bands that clearly pulled in people at that age who were seeking something.
00:56:45
Speaker
Yeah. And you, And they've so obviously stayed. you know they've They've come with you through that whole journey. And I wonder if, like you said, there negative reviews just of just fuel to the fire. They don't, they like that.
00:56:57
Speaker
you know they I think it was it like the response to the Prescott thing. You know, like there was a lot of people loved it. even And obviously you've got loads of bad press. We got really slagged off by all the papers. um but you know our mates and i thought it was fucking brilliant and people people still ask me were you the guy who took the water i feel i feel really sad that i can't say yes i was you have to go no it was dambert and alice and i morally supported him doing it and that's you know i was i was there you know yeah yeah i i told him to do you know i told him I got i got a napkin to get the water off him afterwards.
00:57:35
Speaker
ah but When you look back now at that that whole period, not that period, but the forming the band period, when you were coming through and it took it took time to get your critical mass your momentum going, is there anything
Reflection on Band's Journey
00:57:46
Speaker
you'd do differently? Because obviously you took it took it did take a bit of time and you did go through iterations.
00:57:52
Speaker
Is there anything I'd do differently? Probably not because, um, I think, I think, you know, we fought, we fought it took cause it takes a few years, doesn't it? For any band to really find their feet.
00:58:07
Speaker
And so bands who have success in the first year or so of the, of the, I think that's, I think that's extraordinary, but I mean, it just obviously happens ah lot, but I mean, I don't know you deal with it in a way, but, um, I think,
00:58:23
Speaker
I think we made decisions all, all the way through our, you know, our time to change. We were always trying to change all the time. And so things, so it felt like things happened, like we did an album called slap.
00:58:39
Speaker
that was in the the late 80s, early 90s, I think. And if you listen to it now, you could tell you can tell what we were listening to. We were listening to ah you know Happy Mondays and Stone Roses remixes by Andy Wetherill or stuff like that. You can just tell when you listen to that album.
00:58:56
Speaker
but ah But also, we decided we made a decision that we would try we would start writing songs that were celebrations and small victories rather than just moaning about everything. And that, you know, and that we are to we had to get to that stage by doing a few albums first and then and then and then now and then our as songs became more theatrical in a way for a few albums.
00:59:19
Speaker
And then, so then when when when when when it got to the Tub Thumper album, oh, we'd done an album before Tub Thumper called Swinging Raymond. That's, I think it's our worst album.
00:59:32
Speaker
but And it it caused a lot of, you know, you can tell we weren't quite concentrating. It's not, it's not a brilliant album. And so, and so when, tu so when we made Tub Thumber, it was like our last row of the dice in a way, we were going to knock it on the head in a way.
00:59:48
Speaker
And, but I don't think, but so I don't think we would have made that album if we hadn't had such a bad experience with the swinging Raymond one. And, you know, I nearly left. Somebody did, somebody else, that somebody, um ah somebody I'm still a really good friend with, Maeve, he left before the Tub Thumper album.
01:00:04
Speaker
and Because so we were going nowhere, you know, and it was, it were we'd lost our direction and he wanted to make dance music and instead. And so I think we came, we got to a crisis point where we thought, right, let's do something. So everything seemed to happen, you know, at time when we needed to change.
01:00:23
Speaker
And then, you know, and then in the 2000s, Chimwamba stopped being an electric outfit and just became an acoustic outfit. And that felt really natural that that happens when it did, because it did feel as though we'd run out of ideas or we'd lost our direction and that.
01:00:38
Speaker
So I don't think I would have... necessarily done anything that different. um What about a piece of advice you give yourself back then with with the benefit of hindsight, if you could go back to the beginning, you went, yeah, you're the door to the picture, the scene, the door to the spot, the squat swings, open of you you stroll in, and you're welcomed with warm embraces to Chumba Wumba. Yeah, what would you?
01:01:06
Speaker
Is there anything you tell yourself as a piece of advice? Oh, maybe, maybe I should have had some singing lessons. Maybe that would have helped. Oh, I should have, I should have like learned to play an instrument instrument properly or something.
01:01:20
Speaker
Oh, I should have found another skill that, that only because that's frustrated me now as I've got, as I've gone off and done other projects that. But, um, what advice would I give myself?
01:01:32
Speaker
I think, I think, but I think,
01:01:37
Speaker
I think what was important for us was that we had, that we had, that we did what we, we did what we wanted to do. We had that passion, you know, we had that passion and we believed in what we were doing. And so when we got knocked off track a little bit, you know, through the, you know, like, cause like in the, in those tub thumping years, you get asked to do stuff.
01:01:55
Speaker
Um, And now I look back on it and think, oh we should never have done that. You know, it's there's just, well, I never, i but I don't think that about the eighties or nineties. I don't think, you know, I, I think our trajectory, it seemed to be, it seems to always make perfect sense to me.
01:02:10
Speaker
I probably took too many drugs in the nineties, lost new way a little bit. I would have probably, but that was a great time as well. ah Well, um,
01:02:22
Speaker
But then with the then we saw whole, I don't know, the third like the tub-thumping experience was a really good thing to go through and to come out the other side of.
01:02:36
Speaker
But it wasn't necessarily that enjoyable when we were in the middle of it. And it wasn't my favorite time in Chumbawamba. Like in the film, um like the two bits that we concentrate on, are the, are the, when we all got together, you know, in the squat, when we all first started and what our hopes and dreams were then and what we, and how we declared ourselves anarchists and wanted to do things in a certain way.
01:02:59
Speaker
That was, that was really interesting. And then obviously then setting ourselves up as an anarchist, musicians then thumping happening and that was the other really interesting bit.
01:03:12
Speaker
I think all the bit in between was was was pretty ah straightforward. You know, this happens to a lot of bands. It didn't feel extraordinary all that bit. It felt quite ordinary.
01:03:24
Speaker
um But I don't think I would have changed anything i like ah that because that was um that was a fantastic adventure. and ah But I don't look back on the Toe Thumping time as being um a fantastic ive adventure. I just think of it as being really fascinating, I suppose.
01:03:39
Speaker
Not my favorite, not, they're not me. So like, you know, being on, i mean, being on Letterman or Jay Leno or anything like that, or all those daytime chat shows in America, it was interesting in that and it was funny and it was like, it was, but it was like, would I rather be doing it? You know, would I rather be touring Europe?
01:03:59
Speaker
Yeah, probably would. Yeah. So, and we, and we fucked up a little bit, actually what we did is like, we stopped, we stopped touring. in that tub thumping period and, so and, um, you know, just concentrated on doing like these huge American radio shows, you know, where you, you play for 20 minutes, um, with red hot chili peppers and no doubt and stuff like that. Right.
01:04:25
Speaker
Which is, you know, which is like, sounds great fun, but you know, don't know. I think even if you could have gone back in time to give yourself advice, from talking to don't think you would have taken it.
01:04:38
Speaker
Who's this guy from the future? There's been a very long meeting about it. Yeah, there's a very long meeting
Dunstan's Personal Reflection and Alternatives
01:04:43
Speaker
about it. What's interesting about, actually, what's interesting about the film is that obviously Baby Head is like a younger, is that younger version who's like absolutely appalled at what I've become. guess it is that, right?
01:04:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, and it's questioning. It's questioning absolutely everything that i've ever I'm doing. And it's sort of that angry younger self, I suppose, that I'm sort of like trying to find peace with, suppose, like thinking, okay.
01:05:11
Speaker
ah My final question is, Nigel from Spinal Tap. Oh, brilliant. If he hadn't formed a band, he'd have been a haberdasher. Yeah. So what would you have done if you hadn't formed a band?
01:05:24
Speaker
Well, I might've been an architect, I suppose, might not. Cause I dropped out cause we'd moved into the squat. So I could have carried on that course. So maybe I'd become an architect. I met up with a, I met up with somebody who I'd, who I went to architecture school with about a year or so ago.
01:05:38
Speaker
And he's really massively successful architect. and lives in this huge house in East London somewhere. and And I think, could could I have had that?
01:05:50
Speaker
And I thought, no, that was never really my passion. It wasn't really the thing I was passionate about. Are there many anarcho-architects? I don't know. Anarchitects? It probably is now. I bet there are now. bet there's like an an anarchist ah i' not got you firm somewhere, probably in Italy, ah I imagine. Yeah. Yeah, releasing all the the drawings for free. You can you can go and build your own house, use our drawings.
01:06:16
Speaker
ah analyst Anarchist Architectural Collective, yeah, something like that. I don't know. um I would probably, yeah, I don't know. It's funny because I'm not a musician.
01:06:27
Speaker
Eddie, you think you're a musician? Absolutely not, no. All the things you've been saying about not being able to sing or learn an instrument, I'm like, yeah, this is, that's the way I give myself too. I mean, I don't want to blow smoke your ass, but I think that's why I've loved, I've always loved Art Brute.
01:06:43
Speaker
I saw something of Chumbawamba in you. Well, it's probably because I was listening to so much Chumbawamba as a teenager. It's like there's a feedback loop. It just seems so, I don't know, there was something about it. It's seen you.
01:06:56
Speaker
ah so i mean, I saw Art Brute quite a few times down in Brighton. And I remember thinking, Oh yeah, that's, get this. i totally get it. It seems really familiar. It felt familiar.
01:07:08
Speaker
That's what he was. He felt familiar. And it was a performance. I mean like you know i realized quick pretty quickly, this is about the performance. and And it was just brilliant.
01:07:19
Speaker
No offense about you singing and that. No, it's okay. I learned to sing from listening to you, so it's sos it's fine. So now I see, you know, like i went to see Yard Act the other week.
01:07:30
Speaker
And i see you know I see a bit of Chumwamma in them. Yeah, I saw you with them. i didn't They were covering Tub Thumping. i Yeah, yeah. Which is obviously a nod to... um so And then their new album, they've done this thing in between the tracks that's just like the Anarchy album.
01:07:50
Speaker
ah The radio. Yeah, yeah. yeah So I wondered, what I mean, I obviously like naively believe it's like a little nod. Well, we're going to get them on the podcast soon, actually. So we'll ask them. oh I am a massive fan and they they were absolutely brilliant live.
01:08:05
Speaker
Their show has gone up as, I don't know if you've seen them recently, but their show has gone up a step. Right. And it's like a proper fucking show. It's brilliant. I saw them last summer in Berlin and they were really good then, but the bits I've seen on the internet look great. They've got these two backing singers now who it seems a bit insulting calling them backing singers because they're more than that.
01:08:26
Speaker
They're just amazing. They're totally amazing. And so the show was just, it was just brilliant. was really good. But then again, you know, like, I mean, ah obviously, I don't see Chumbawamba in everything I go and see, but when I do, you know, I too i do sort of enjoy that feeling of thinking, oh, so I'll see a bit of us in that.
01:08:44
Speaker
so I had that feeling myself watching Yadak. There's a little bit of our brute in this. There's a little bit of our brute in this. It totally is, yeah. and Maybe I'm seeing the Chimbal Wimber in it and thinking it's our brute.
01:08:57
Speaker
There is though. There totally is, yeah.
01:09:01
Speaker
there is the it totally is yeah And liked seeing him just either day because I thought, when I'd seen him before, i they seemed to have lost a bit of the cynicism.
01:09:13
Speaker
And he e he was more like really enjoying just being a bit of a showman. Yeah, there's definitely changes happened recently. I read read an article with him who was saying they had a bad show somewhere and it just changed his perspective and everything.
01:09:26
Speaker
Oh, really? He's like, oh, this should be fun. and these so Yeah. I guess like you, when you decided to like, now we should be celebrating things. I guess they had that moment themselves. Yeah. And that was a great, that was a great shift. That was a really important shift for us.
01:09:40
Speaker
You know, when we thought, oh, look, you don't have to, you don't have to just shout at people. You can, you know, And we we have so much more fun with it once you start doing that and you let yourself. You're being your true self, I guess, right? yeah You are funny sort situationist people and then you get to do that on stage. it You connect with yourself and then that's the that people like. That takes a journey together.
01:10:02
Speaker
want to see cut? Yeah. She's bugging me.
01:10:09
Speaker
Hello. Oh, wow, hello. We have a cat on the podcast. What's the cat called? Zuko. Zuko. Hello, Zuko. I think we've got everything. weve Have we yeah extracted all the new bandiness?
01:10:21
Speaker
I think so. The forming of the band-ness. Was I enough about forming of the band? Yeah, definitely. We've kicked it all out. So, Dunstan, thank you ever so much. All right, it's lovely to meet boss. Yeah, you too.
01:10:39
Speaker
ah So a big thank you to Dunstan from Tumba Wumba there. And I take my biggest, not my biggest takeaway, because it was a fascinating interview, but one of my big takeaways was what great hair that man has.
01:10:50
Speaker
Yeah, right. He's a very stylish man. He's a dapper gentleman. and And this came to me later, and he will, I think, hate me for saying this, but he sort of reminded me a little bit of Keir Starmer's...
01:11:02
Speaker
roof ah And that's the end, we stopped it. He kind of reminded me of Keir Starmer. Joe thinks, Dunstan from Trimba Wimba. Yeah, I'm not sure that their politics are completely aligned anymore.
01:11:17
Speaker
But he reminded me a little bit of Keir Starmer's cooler older brother. That's what I thought. Or younger brother. I don't know if I've just insulted him another way. he ah but i mean, when I say older brother, furiously backpedaling, I mean like the one who's who's first in the family and is kind of cooler and weirder. And then the the younger sibling comes along and it becomes a lawyer something.
01:11:37
Speaker
So... Well, that's... I mean, that's good. I didn't have that. Dunstan, I'm really sorry. I didn't... um But yes, I mean, I thought as well, you know, it was completely fascinating how not only... I didn't expect him not to be proud of the success of Jumbo Wumba, but how...
01:11:59
Speaker
really pleased he was that they did it their way. Yeah, I think that's what I love about them too, right? They weren't really compromised or anything, you know? They just did what they did and it turned out to be very successful.
01:12:13
Speaker
And also I thought was fascinating was that he they and I forgot they did this, was that they then, once they got super successful, they signed deals and with like a car manufacturer just gave the money away.
01:12:26
Speaker
I think that bit was brilliant. And it really, i respected Chumbawumba anyway, but I really respect them now, you know? I think I say in the thing, like remember being in Italy and saying, I love Chumbawumba, they did this thing where they gave money to Anika's radio stations. And the guy was like, yes, I was in Anika's radio station. A check just turned up one day. So yeah, is it was...
01:12:47
Speaker
Yeah, so um ah enormous thank you to Dunstan. And of course, check out his new band, Interrobang. did like We didn't talk too much about Interrobang, but do you know what an Interrobang is?
01:12:59
Speaker
i think do you tell me that. it's it's it's it's one of the It's a punctuation mark that is not really very used. anymore It was used in the Victorian times or something. And it's a question mark and an exclamation mark.
01:13:14
Speaker
Yeah. what Like that. So that's his new band. So check out Interrobank. We'll put some
Introduction to Interrobang and Argos Catalogue
01:13:20
Speaker
links below the podcast. And um I mean, oh, one more thing that I thought was interesting was how he thought that they had basically written something.
01:13:35
Speaker
And it didn't work. And then they went and sort of did it again. And it did work. Yeah. And that the shit in your mouth was this. Yeah, they took out. Yeah, right. Yeah. And but the ah what did think was interesting about that. So I went back and listened to shit in your mouth. And it is very similar to tub thumping. I think tub thumping is better.
01:13:51
Speaker
But it is very similar in the way it feels. thought it was really interesting how they went and did tub thumping. And it did a bit a bit like what, I guess, Pulp did when they did Common People. and that They went and just really went all out on... It sounded bigger and more well-produced and more poppy.
01:14:11
Speaker
I wonder if that pushed it over the edge because, really, the difference between... at least in terms of content between those two songs, is not massive, although they really did put their finger on a very specific feeling of getting knocked down and also getting back up again. And one one isn't called Shit in Your Mouth. It was probably out for the chance. I don't think that would have sold 8 million copies in the USA ah if if it was called Shit in Your Mouth.
01:14:38
Speaker
Anyway, thanks to Dunstan. And if you ever see an incredibly dapper man walking along Brighton Promenade, it will be him, probably. um Time to move on now to the section everyone's been waiting for in the podcast, which the Argos Catalogue.
01:14:54
Speaker
Hands up those who want the new Argos Catalogue. Now, the Argos catalogue, for those of you have forgotten, is where we, over time, ask a bunch of questions about the rock and roll lifestyle of one Eddie Argos and catalogue those thoughts to build up a bigger picture of the man, the myth, and legend, shall I? Have you reached out of We're getting in there, folks. Legend just means old. I didn't want to say that, but yes. And so you do
Eddie's Encounters with Music Icons
01:15:26
Speaker
feel ah motivated to send in your questions for Eddie, and we will ask them. But we have one here ah sent in from...
01:15:34
Speaker
ah regular listener Mavis Lunchables from Sedgley. And ah she says, Dear Eddie, I've been a fan of Art Brute since the early days and have often used my Zimmer frame to push to the front of the mosh pit in the hope of catching the twinkle in your eye.
01:15:51
Speaker
But what I'd really like to know is, who is the most famous person you've been in a lift with? Oh, wow. She doesn't look like that. um I would say the most famous person I've been in Lyft with.
01:16:03
Speaker
ah We played a festival in Poland and it had quite an unusual lineup, that festival. It was ah like someone had thrown darts into a, you bit how they program lot of pollution, I reckon. They just throw darts at like record slaves. Would people recognize these names? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. yes Yeah.
01:16:26
Speaker
And we played we played right before um The Fall. The Fall, right. Well, after The Fall. We played very close to The Fall. I will say, just jumping in, that's a bit of programming, isn't it? that like we They've got the target audience. Let's put put The Fall and Art Brute back to back and see what happens. I was a bit worried people would go, oh, one second here. ah but um And then we went back to the hotel.
01:16:51
Speaker
And look not Marky Smith, but the rest of The Fall. at the time, hey, come and join us, Mark would like to meet you, and I was not falling for that trick. So I was like, absolutely not, I'm going to go now, goodnight.
01:17:03
Speaker
And explain to the listeners why maybe you may have been trepidatious for meeting Mark Eastman. I don't think Mark Eastman would have been very happy to meet me, and I don't think, I think it might have, I don't know, he's quite cantankerous, right?
01:17:16
Speaker
janet Jasper, do you call them now, sweet summer child? Yeah. Jasper was like, oh yeah, I'm me, oh yeah, yeah. I went over to hang out with the fool. And um I was like, no, no, no, I'm gonna go, and I'm gonna go, bye.
01:17:28
Speaker
And I went to the lift and then the lift came down and ah two other people suddenly came to get lift with me and it was Mark E Smith. And I thought it was a strange lineup. yeah The other person was Raekwon from the Wu Tang clan.
01:17:44
Speaker
And they both really smelled of weed. I would in the lift, it was quite a weedy smelling of So both of them, or was one of them smelling of weed strong enough to compensate for tea? I don't know. Because with all respect to Mark E Smith, God bless his soul, I feel like he might smell of cider and peanuts. Yeah, can you smell amphetamines in a I don't know. stay yeah sweat Yeah, i maybe it's just Raekwon Maybe I've just added this.
01:18:09
Speaker
The whole thing definitely like a strange dream. So maybe I've just added this element myself. hey Okay, so picture the scene, listeners. Eddie... is in a lift and in steps, first of all, Mark E Smith from The Fall, who you were trying to avoid anyway, and Raekwon.
01:18:23
Speaker
Raekwon, yeah. From the Wu-Tang. And they, don't think, I mean, maybe Mark E knew who Raekwon was. I don't know, they didn't seem like they would have known who each other were. I'm i'm fairly sure Raekwon does not know Mark E Smith. Does Mark E Smith know Raekwon, do you think?
01:18:36
Speaker
He's a man of hidden depths, wasn't he? Yeah, yeah, exactly. right i've To me, it felt like I was the only person in the lift that knew who everybody was. I was thinking, you i that I wish I'd taken a selfie. yeah i mean Instagram wasn't as big then.
01:18:47
Speaker
would have been a really good selfie because I could have tagged it like three rappers in a lift. Me and Mark E Smith. That's also right. Actually, that we I did not think about that perspective, which is you all have a spoken delivery. Yeah. and we We're all rappers. Very different. If you could have got Neil Tennant from the Pet Shop Boys Circa West End Girls. It was that kind of festival. He could have been there too. He could there. You could have had four of them. Jonah Louis. Yeah. BA Robertson, we could have had all these videos. Yeah.
01:19:16
Speaker
Hmm. Okay. And so... Then they got out. We all got out. Like, independently. Well, they got out and I sort just stayed left hand and think I was ruminating. Recuperating from the... And thinking no one's ever going to believe me also. No. Well, I believe you, Eddie.
01:19:31
Speaker
And what I want to know is, did the thought go through your head to sort of break the ice and introduce yourself and say, hey guys, we're all playing at the same festival. Hey, how's the idea? Do you know each other?
01:19:43
Speaker
i yeah wish, right? I was just too, I was a little bit starstruck, I would say, with both of them. But I think not even in that of the situation. I kind of wish I'd been like, what are you doing later? What's what afters?
01:19:56
Speaker
Yeah. Here, Rayquan, shall we hang after the show? it Do we hang out, Rayquan? Yeah. Yeah, Rayquan had some other people with him. but I mean he's a rapper right? He has an entourage.
01:20:07
Speaker
but Yeah, me and Mark Leibowitz look quite disrevelled and tired. So that's, yeah. Yeah, but i should have done right. ah You may be able to hear some of the street noise and life of ah Berlin here in our glamorous headquarters, by the way.
01:20:21
Speaker
Yeah, but yeah, I didn't. i oh ah Just a selfie would have been brilliant, right? that's a Yeah. that yes I didn't even think about it. But but then that's because that's because you're not a conceited person. But yeah, that would have been great. And I guess as well...
01:20:36
Speaker
Raekwon, I know very little about the character of Raekwon, but he the Wu-Tang Clan in general strike me as people who are probably they're not hanging around for chit-chat. Well, I've met two other members of the Wu-Tang Clan.
01:20:50
Speaker
we We played with... That means you've met a third of the Wu-Tang Clan. Ghostface Killer is in the Wu-Tang He's definitely in the Wu-Tang Clan. We played a party. with guy We supported Ghostface Killer.
01:21:03
Speaker
How did that happen? You supported Ghostface Killer? We launched something for Spin Magazine in America. So Ghostface Killer and us were the bands playing and the audience was like CeeLo and ah like lots of, Franz Ferdinand I think, like lots of, they were just famous people. yeah It was that time of our group when that just seemed normal. Yes.
01:21:28
Speaker
and yeah yeah yeah But I shared a dressing room with with Ghostface Killer and we had, they're called sliders, little beef burgers. Yes, little beef burgers. We shared a plate little beef burgers. Hang on. Sharing a plate of sliders with Ghostface Killer. yeah That could be the title of your next autobiography.
01:21:44
Speaker
Yeah, when I talk about these things, I think, why didn't i put that in the first one? you know Out now, folks, by the way, the autobiography, but save the good stuff for the second one, like the sliders with the members Wu-Tang Things I missed to put in the first one.
01:21:56
Speaker
Wow. and and So you said you met a third member of the Wu-Tang Clan? I'm really bad with members. It was one of the Wu-Tang. I think so. Old Dirty Bastards. Yes, is you met Old Dirty Bastards, deceased member of Wu-Tang Clan. I think, well, maybe I didn't meet him.
01:22:10
Speaker
he Did he seem a little bit... Was he around in, like, 2005? I think he... When did he die? And was it South by Southwest? Have I confused my members of the Duzan clan? I don't think he he's dead, but he died later than that, I think. I'll have to check for sure. I think maybe maybe I'm confused.
01:22:28
Speaker
Well, let's just put it... Let's chalk it down to you have met Rayquan. Ghostface Killer and Old Dirty Bastard, ah who I think maybe that time was going under the name Big Baby Jesus. I'll have to check that. I i may be confused at the final member. That's fine. during Well, any, I mean, all and any members of Wu-Tang are but welcome here.
01:22:45
Speaker
Well, that's a particularly bumper entry to the Argos catalogue this week. Thank you, Eddie. For a catalogue of answers, Argos takes care of it. So what we're doing now, folks, is we're Googling to see when old Dirty Bastard died. And <unk> old Dirty Bastard died in 2004.
01:23:03
Speaker
So it was another member of the Wu-Tang The RZA. The RZA. Because he's the leader of the gang. i've just Googled Wu-Tang Clan South by Southwest. I'm sure I met a member of the Wu-Tang Clan at South by Southwest very briefly.
01:23:18
Speaker
i think I was drinking a lot of Sparks back then, though. Maybe, or maybe I'm confused. Well, look, I'm happy to chalk it up as you have met three members of the Wu-Tang Clan. That means you've met a third of them. that's That's pretty good.
01:23:29
Speaker
and free I've met...
Podcast Outro
01:23:31
Speaker
The best I can say as an equivalent is I've met three out of the four members of Sleeper. And not Louise Wenner.
01:23:41
Speaker
All right. ah Well, that's it, folks. um While we sit... I'm sitting here in semi-stunned silence at Eddie's Rutan Clan Stories. ah Don't forget, you can get in touch with us. It's joeandeddy at iformedaband.com.
01:23:54
Speaker
I think that email address works. find out it's uh i'll put it below the podcast mavis lunchables got through mavis got through yeah and and last time ah edith haslett so i guess uh it's working so yeah email us uh if you have a question for eddie for the argus catalog uh or about anything if you're in a band that's notable but no offense no offense unknown bands but if you're in a notable band i'm happy to talk we can talk turkey about getting on the show sounds good yeah Right, that's it. ah See you next time.
01:24:25
Speaker
Until then, farewell.