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Episode 13 - The Drum 'n' Bass Aerobics Experience, with Emma Smallman
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This week we kick off a new run of episodes where we hand the guest chair over to the artists coming to Venue 13 this August. First up is the brilliant Emma Smallman, founder of Drum n Bounce and the mind behind The Drum & Bass Aerobics Experience, which lands at Venue 13 for its first-ever Fringe run.
Emma paints the picture of what a 10:30am drum & bass aerobics class actually is — the "joy bubble," the collective experience, and why moving your body with a room full of strangers might be exactly the reset the Fringe marathon needs. No pressure to get the moves right; the only rule is that you move and have fun.
We trace the origin story back to a Friday night in 2012, a bit of drum & bass and some aerobics moves that turned into a Eureka moment, through the first classes in Birmingham and a breakthrough at Shambala, to nearly fourteen years of opening main stages from the Commonwealth Games to the Eurovision Fan Zone. Emma also talks about the wider mission underneath it all—her work as DJ Sister Smalls, her radio show, and her trauma-informed yoga in prisons, probation hostels and recovery settings—and how accessibility and wellbeing tie every one of those hats together. It fits neatly with what we're trying to build at Venue 13: a space that's about community and wellbeing, not just theatre.
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Transcript
Introduction to Venue 13 Podcast and Guests
00:00:12
Speaker
I'm Ian. And I'm Vanessa. And this is episode 13 because we are venue 13. I wanted to say that. um So yes, we are ah really in the process of getting ready for the Fringe now. What we're going to do with these the next series of podcasts is to interview the artists they're going to be at venue 13 this August.
Introducing Emma Smallman and Drum and Bounce
00:00:33
Speaker
This week, we welcome Emma Smallman. She's the founder of Drum and Bounce and the mind behind the Drum and Bass Aerobics Experience, which will be at Venue 13 this August for its first ever fringe run.
00:00:46
Speaker
Come and find your happy bass at Venue 13 this August, which works really well for us. It works with our vegan theme because you can also find a happy bass.
00:00:57
Speaker
A happy what? A bass. A bass? Yeah, it's a freshwater fish.
00:01:02
Speaker
No, you don't need to cut it out. Okay, I'll cut that out. Maybe I'll leave this part out.
What is Drum and Bounce?
00:01:23
Speaker
Our guest this week is the brilliant Emma Smallman, the founder of Drum and Bounce, who is bringing the drum and bass aerobics experience to Vinny 13 for its first ever Fringe run. Emma, welcome to Podcast 13.
00:01:35
Speaker
Oh, thank you so much. I'm very excited to be here chatting to you today. hi Emma, welcome to Podcast 13. For anyone who has never heard or thought about you or doing a drum and bass aerobics class in the morning, do you want to paint the picture for them? Why should they do it? do you recommend someone starting their day in this way, like ah get the festival away, like that kind of emotion?
00:01:57
Speaker
Absolutely. I mean, I'm a big advocate for doing any sort of movement every morning, but yeah, even more so at the fringe. And so basically drum and bounce is a really uplifting experience and it's dance, fitness, aerobics, no pressure to get anything right. Of course, it's more about having fun, but the music is so magnetic and it just like carries you like a wave.
00:02:22
Speaker
and And so even if you're not coordinated, anything like that, it doesn't matter because what happens in drum and bounce and some participants I've had before call it like this joy bubble because we're all coming together. It's a collective experience.
00:02:36
Speaker
It's this moment where because you're sort of concentrating on listening to the music, what moves are coming, nothing else sort of exists within that time because you're fully present.
00:02:47
Speaker
So it's just a perfect way to start the day. You come out of your mind and into your body. and It gets all your systems fired up and started and you get all the endorphins and the euphoria both in the session and afterwards.
00:03:01
Speaker
And there's something really lovely that happens when you move with other people in that even if you've not spoke to them when you walked in the door, you come together in that moment because we're, we're, we become like synchronized. Our heartbeat starts to be the same beat. We listen to the music. We have those moments of joy. We laugh when we get it wrong.
00:03:22
Speaker
And, you know, these shared experiences, I think are just becoming even more important. The more we're living in a virtual world, we're on our phones a lot. The, the sort of power of being,
00:03:33
Speaker
in a space with other people and moving together I think is just becoming even more essential not just for physical health but for mental health and yeah the power of connection so I think it's a marvellous way to start your day if you come into fringe because it's just like kickstarts fires things off and you know you might meet some people as well which is a really lovely thing and to start the day absolutely it also probably sets the tone for the day as well because I really like Ian you can actually relate to this in a way we've actually had the conversation the fringe can be quite a static thing from a physical perspective you know you're queuing then you're sitting down then you're queuing again and you're sitting down and to start the day with like you know shake it all off to be like I'm ready for this
00:04:20
Speaker
It must be like a fantastic opportunity.
Fringe Festival and Wellness
00:04:23
Speaker
a lot of people refer to the Fringe as like a bit of a marathon. So it's good. Like it's important to have a warm up before you get into everything, especially because, you know, yes, it is a lot of a lot of stillness as well. I know that when I was, you know, when we were setting up for this this conversation, we were passing back tracks and also when we were getting things listed like the a Spotify playlist that we've embedded within the website so that people can hear some of the music that you're going to be bringing into space. It's also hard like when you were referring to so much time being on your screens and and so much time in this virtual space. I'm like, oh yeah, I was setting up the website and I just wanted to like get up.
00:05:04
Speaker
because of the music have a little dance yeah yes well and then try when we were talking about music and what we might be able to bring into this episode too i was like yeah i think i just like i just want to go for a run now like i just want get up and move it might inspire healthy choices throughout the rest of the day in the festival as well and obviously you know people might be coming in and indulging at the festival and that's great too because it's all about balance but it might help if you've had a heavy night the night before it could just you know totally reset you for the day ahead or you might then as a result go oh I'm gonna have a little walk around the block after in between shows and you know so it might just inspire some healthy choices throughout the event as well which is great for your well-being
00:05:51
Speaker
which is Which is an excellent tip for the the festival in general. can be really easy to put those aside for the month of August while you're at the Fringe.
Origins of Drum and Bounce
00:06:01
Speaker
You've been doing this since 2012.
00:06:02
Speaker
twenty twelve Yeah. Can you take us back to like where the idea came from, like combining like the drum and bass, rave aesthetic with an aerobics class? like What was the spark that brought that together?
00:06:15
Speaker
Yeah, totally. Well, I used to go, when I first started going out raving to drum and bass nights, it was back in the early 90s. And it just had a real, the music had a real visceral effect on me.
00:06:28
Speaker
and and And then, similar to you saying you heard the music and it makes you want to run. So beyond the sort of raving time, if I ever heard drum and bass music come on, I would either need to sprint or I'd need to dance or it just did something that almost like I wasn't in control of it the music kind of had this powerful impact and then I became an aerobics teacher back in 2004 but I just found it all a bit boring i thought the music was a bit boring and Anyway, I was around at a mate just, well, just before 2012 and it was a Friday night and we had the drum and bass on and I started teaching some aerobics moves to it. And wouldn't this be so like, this would be the perfect aerobics class because it's really fast, but also you get those connotations of a night out. You can't help but sort of feel that like fizz of excitement. I do anyway. And ah I now know lots of other people do when you hear drum and bass.
00:07:22
Speaker
And so I was just like prancing around and showing him the moves and he was copying me. And then We were like, this would be such a good class and you could call it jump and bass or drum and bounce. And we were like, Eureka!
00:07:37
Speaker
So brother was a DJ at the time. He started putting some mixes together initially for me. I started creating some dance moves and then I got a space for free for a month. And I said, I'm just going to put on classes and just see, you know, anyone can come and friends and friends of friends and...
00:07:54
Speaker
And also Shambhala Festival was a big inspiration because they do a lot of dance workshops. And I was doing dance workshops there going, oh, I could do this. I could do this drum and bounce here. It would go down a treat.
00:08:06
Speaker
And that inspired me. And so yeah I started October
Growth and Impact of Drum and Bounce
00:08:10
Speaker
2012. And by August 2013, I was doing it at Shambhala, which really like propelled the whole festival fitness thing, which drum and bounce is, I guess it's one of its niches really yeah yeah I saw I saw that you know and just like that you started and then it's nearly 14 years on now yeah and you've opened many main stages and played everything from Commonwealth Games to Eurovision Fun Zone like did you ever imagine it would grow like grow into this would get this big
00:08:42
Speaker
No, like the big events, the festivals. Yeah, those big stages are just amazing. I'm like, come on, bigger stages, more people. Bigger stages, more, yes. Well, yeah, and the big events. And it's great because similar to what we're talking about with the fringe, you know, it's the importance of...
00:08:59
Speaker
people moving but enjoying it because you know this like exercising I don't think should be a chore where you're like oh I've got to do this thing that I don't particularly want to do actually if you are doing things that are fun and that you love It's going to be way more part of your routine and you're going to get way more consistency with it. So I guess that's one of my missions really is to show you that you can exercise, get all those benefits, but it's really good fun when you find the things that you like, be it written by the music that you love or the type of movement that you love or music.
00:09:33
Speaker
you know, whatever it is, keep trying things until you you find what that is for you. um And yeah, luckily for a lot of people, it's drum and bounce, which is great. Learning for them and for you.
00:09:44
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. yeah yeah and And you're wearing a lot of hats too. Like you mentioned your your brother putting together a mix, but you're also, you're DJ's sister Smalls. Yep. Behind the decks. You're also you do hosting. You also are it's like a trauma-informed yoga teacher. Like how will all of these different worlds feed into drum and bounce well I guess a umbrella over all of these things is around well-being so when I'm out DJing for me it's about creating like high vibrational experiences where people are just dancing with each other you know it's that same collective experience that i talked about at the start with drum and bounce I feel the same thing with DJing
00:10:27
Speaker
And I also am quite passionate about DJing in daytime and DJing at sober events so that it's not all related to alcohol or substances, or but like you just create in that energy and through dance, through music.
00:10:44
Speaker
And so it kind of really connects with drum and bounce. and And then the trauma-informed yoga I teach in quite particular settings, which again, for me is about creating opportunities for no matter where you are or who you are or what you're doing, like the opportunities to come at wellbeing and find ways to really come home to yourself in your body. Because I think when you feel that way,
00:11:10
Speaker
um life just is more more comfortable I think when you're feeling good in yourself so I like to bring that through the trauma-informed yoga and then my radio show is called find your happy base which is again connected to well-being and how do we feel good in ourselves and our And sort of physical and mental state, be it through music, movement, whatever.
Emma's Mission in Wellness
00:11:33
Speaker
So for me, whilst I have got many hats and doing lots of different things, they all come under the same thing.
00:11:41
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, extending that to like having having trained with like the the prison yoga program and the Phoenix Prison Trust, you're delivering yoga and prisons, probation, hostels, like people going through recovery and, you know, people who are are leaving like domestic abuse situations. Like there's like a strong mission in what you're doing. How does how does this like sort of shape the way that you structure your sessions?
00:12:10
Speaker
Yeah. And so I really, really love working in all those different environments. and And again, I think it's really important if people are not able to sort of come to classes, take the classes to the people. and So, yeah, it's like when people are going through really challenging times, movement, mindfulness,
00:12:35
Speaker
exercise, yoga, all these things, I just think are such essential tools for life. And so again, you know, it all fits into that notion of of well-being.
00:12:47
Speaker
And I want to try and get into as many spaces as I can, and particularly spaces where there's, um I guess, yeah, people are experiencing challenge and darkness and heaviness to just try and bring some of the light into those spaces so yeah yeah there's so much mean as as you're talking about it there's so much it's like it just seems also sort of obvious like the the sort of like rhythmic social dance aspect to it whether or not it's with drum and bass music or like the history of human civilization is like a universal thing that has like brought people together and created
00:13:27
Speaker
belonging and feeling like embodying like a spirit of, of, of being alive. So it's really, like it's really amazing to hear that across so many different places where you're using that as a, as a, like way to inspire people to be engaged.
00:13:45
Speaker
yeah and sorry you're saying sorry Vanessa yeah um yeah it's like a social glue isn't it's amazing how quickly a piece of music or some movement connects people and and there is more there's more ways that we're connected than we're not and sometimes it takes some of these different techniques and practices to help make that shift and it can make that shift very very quickly You know, we've got a room full of guys in prison in the sports hall who come in as individuals with their masks on and their fronts on because they need to do that. And, you know, 30 minutes into a movement class where they're flowing together and moving together. It's beautiful. It's really beautiful to witness. Yeah, definitely. I absolutely love that. it's ah It has a very strong accessibility message. this you know You're going to take it to them because regardless of the circumstances of where they are right now, you do understand that, you you truly understand and believe that this is going to actually be good for them.
00:14:45
Speaker
It is something that is, you know, in a similar way, it's something that the New 13 wants to do with the accessibility for the fringe. are working into trying to get together some sort of digital access so that people that can't physically make it to the fringe for whatever reason, maybe they they have... um like they physically cannot actually so you attend or they have, you mentally they can attend or, know, geographically they're not here at the time.
Making Wellness Accessible
00:15:11
Speaker
We would like to always so find a way to make the fringe more accessible to them as well, um to especially just trying to not gatekeep art in any way. But yes, as you were saying, the accessibility part is clearly central to to what you do. um Within your class, you said that a there is wheelchair users access ah classes. You offer high impact, long low impact options.
00:15:34
Speaker
And like you even said at the beginning, said there's no pressure to get it right. So this is really important to you. It's like you're saying that this is mainly the... Is it just about the fun of it or also just also to say to people, like you know, come as you are, we you know, you are accepted as you are originally and then, you know, you can change and transform into something else.
00:15:53
Speaker
Absolutely there. I just know that for a lot of people, there's a lot of barriers as to why they might not access a class or a well-being practice. And I just think that's, an I think as a ah well-being deliverer, I need to do everything I can to help people to know that they can come through the door.
00:16:13
Speaker
Because I think once you're through the door, the rest of it's taken care of. But I know that it can take a lot for people and to do that so yeah I just want to try and like reassure people as much as possible that when they're there they're gonna have a lovely time you know they're gonna have a lovely time and there's just absolutely no pressure and and because once people have accessed that then they might go oh well I could go to something else that i might have been worried about or ah Lots of people who come to my class don't like the gym necessarily. It's the music that can often be the thing that draws them in.
00:16:51
Speaker
And then they go, oh, I've never thought of me as being an active person, but now I've bought some active wear. But then I think if you start to open up these potential different identities, whatever that may be, like lots of people who come to my yoga classes are like, I'd never imagined I'd do yoga and enjoy it I just think it opens up the possibility for anything because then you're like, what else might I be able to do that I've never thought possible?
00:17:17
Speaker
So I sort of see it on a much broader level, which is why I want to yeah, make things accessible as possible because I just think it opens up potential.
Incorporating Wellness at Venue 13
00:17:27
Speaker
It does. Potential. Yeah.
00:17:29
Speaker
Yeah, I'm i I personally am excited in part because i think the ulterior motive that Vanessa and I have about trying to find movement stuff that we can program into the venue earlier in the day is we get so caught up in the festival ourselves.
00:17:45
Speaker
But it's like, we just need a manufacturing situation where we'll have the opportunity to move around in structured way as well. It's like, I don't know, like, we are going to be there every single time. Yeah. We have two big fans. No, to be fair, it was always the idea of, So many venues have this way of like, you know, just you feel like you're always in a queue or just sitting down seeing a thing.
00:18:09
Speaker
And then it's always this feeling of next, next, next. And we wanted to do something different with A13. We wanted to have sort like a wellness aspect to it. And the community aspect of it you was, you know, was making a big point of facing with vendors, with food vendors, with local people, with the community. And they're trying to bring people in to do something that's not just theater, you know. And if you mean that theater sort of the afternoon, evening, then fine. and But I'm like, well, in the morning, can we have some climate talks? And can we have some panels? Can we have some some exercise of some sort or something, you know, that that, I don't know, that inspires people to
00:18:43
Speaker
to be part of the community. and So that was one of the one of the missions. Amazing. Amazing. Emma, this is your first time to the Fringe, at least with ah were we're definitely with the the german with bit the classes.
00:19:00
Speaker
And your first time at Vini 13. Yep. From that first conversation with Vanessa, how did you get on board with like, yeah, I'm going to bring this to the this festival? and And what are you looking forward to?
00:19:12
Speaker
Yeah, well, firstly, thanks so much for getting in touch. And I love that you've sort of opened up the remit of what the Fringe Festival is about. And it's funny, when you first messaged me, Vanessa, I've got a WhatsApp with some of my friends. I went, someone's just messaged me about doing drum and bounce at the front at the Fringe. And they all went, it's a scam. No, it's not.
00:19:31
Speaker
but So then when I was like, guys, it's real. They were like, wow. Wow. You know, the print is such a huge thing. So I was absolutely delighted when you got in touch. Initially, I thought, am I going to have to make my class into a comedy show or a theatre? Is that what you're asking?
00:19:49
Speaker
didn't realise. We're open to it. You don't have to. There's no request to do it. That's entirely up to you as the creator. I was like, can I do this? This is a strange request, but can I make it into a comedy show? But I'm sure sometimes people, when they do it, feel like it you can be a bit of a comedy show.
00:20:06
Speaker
and But that's good. But yeah, I'm very excited. It's such a prestigious event. um It'll just be fantastic to be part of it and to be part of the buzz. And also, if it does bring some well-being... of people whilst they're there and it just gives them that you know extra bit for the marathon extra um in the legs for the rest of the festival then that's perfect but also if it just inspires people to go oh I want to hunt out some an exercise class when I get back because really enjoyed that you know i find people often surprise themselves with drum and bounce and so if that just has a ripple effect in some way or another then um yeah then that would be fantastic as well
00:20:46
Speaker
and And also I'll get to have a little meet around the festival, which I'm really excited about because I've only been once before. So, yeah, Annie's instructing as well who's been up in Edinburgh. So be lovely.
00:20:58
Speaker
And yeah, to get her on board and delivering as well. Yeah, I mean, and there are other venues as well. Like when you come up, we will take you around and you will see the bigger parks and how they get taken over by venues as well and venue stuff. And maybe you can we can help you with assembly, which are like a bigger, like different venue. And they tend to do outdoor stuff.
00:21:18
Speaker
So maybe for future festivals, you can actually have the vision of having, you knowre like something similar to Morish Shambhala, that you have a stage outside and like the people can just join in. And it's something that it's like it like an open space. um and Edinburgh is very flexible when it comes to to the fringe.
00:21:35
Speaker
And so I believe that, I genuinely believe that, you know, Benny 13 could be just like the starter for
Emma's Excitement for the Fringe
00:21:40
Speaker
you. And there are other other festivals, that you know, actually coming up in July, which is and something we're going to talk about later in in the program.
00:21:47
Speaker
We have the Kelbrum Festival. which is quite a very a very loved festival in in Scotland. It's kind of like a hidden little secret. um It's very family friendly. So that's another one I can totally see you being at.
00:22:00
Speaker
yeahs just It's a lovely, lovely festival. It will be very popular. I'll definitely send you those details as well. Excellent. Yeah, well, so far, Edinburgh and Scotland has opened up to drum bouts with loving arms.
00:22:13
Speaker
And yeah, so nice one anew. And yeah, thanks so much for asking. excited. I'm very, very excited. And, you know, just a few words for the nervous ones or the sceptical parents or the flatmate that claims that they cannot dance.
00:22:29
Speaker
What you want to say to them? Just come along. Honestly, just come because it doesn't matter. And like you get to enjoy the music. I also actively encourage freestyling. So I go, look, if you just want to spend, you know, the whole class just doing your own moves. But you love the music. The mixes are great.
00:22:47
Speaker
Just do that. Like just have a morning little rave. The thing is, if you freestyle and I like your moves, I'm likely going to pinch them. Yeah, yeah. All of that. But yeah, it's just come together. Let's move. Let's connect. Let's just have some nice positive energy to start the day.
00:23:06
Speaker
and Yeah, definitely come. No need to get anything right, like i said at the start. Fantastic. Well, Emma, thank you so much. The German-based aerobics experience will be at venue 13 at 10.30 on the 14th, 15th, 16th, 22nd and 23rd of August. Tickets are £16, 14 concessions. And this is a capacity-limited kind of show, so do book ahead and we will leave all the information and in the description.
00:23:35
Speaker
Thanks so much for joining us, Emma. Thank you, guys. See you soon.
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:23:39
Speaker
See you, bye. Bye.
00:24:31
Speaker
Sure, you wanna do an outro? Go for it. No? Yeah.
00:24:36
Speaker
Thanks for listening to this week's episode. If you enjoyed our conversation, make sure you hit subscribe so you never miss an update. You can find us wherever you get your podcasts. We'd also love it if you could take a moment to leave us a review. It helps more people discover the podcast and join the community.
00:24:51
Speaker
It's especially helpful to get these on Apple Podcasts so we can rise to be the most popular hybrid vegan climate theater am yeah Edinburgh podcast. Is that very niche? It's a highly competitive niche, I'm sure. But honestly, it's a big help even if we are a very special flavor.
00:25:06
Speaker
Got thoughts, questions or ideas for future episodes? Or would you like to be part of an episode? We'd love to hear from you. You can reach us at podcast at venue13.com, that's podcast at venue13.com and across the socials ad at venue13fringe. So venue13fringe.
00:25:23
Speaker
Our back episodes and transcripts can be found on our website, venue13.com. The music you heard through the episode is by Dusty Dex, which we got through Epidemic Sound. Until next time, thanks again for tuning in.
00:25:35
Speaker
We'll be back with another episode soon.