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Episode 8 - Prague Quadrennial: Immersion, Infrastructure and the Scenography of the Unseen + Pond Life by Elyne Quan
18 Plays2 months ago
In this episode, Ian and Vanesa return from the Prague Quadrennial Symposium, Performing Exhibitions, Curating Scenographies, held at ARCHA+ in Prague from April 13–15, 2026. Gathering more than seventy speakers from around the world in the lead-up to PQ's 60th-anniversary edition in 2027, the symposium explored the rich interconnections between contemporary scenographic practice, curating and exhibition-making.
Ian and Vanesa share their experience delivering a Flash Talk — The Venue as Scenographic Apparatus: Curating Infrastructure, Absence, and Performance — which drew on their work at Venue 13 to argue that venue-making is itself a scenographic practice shaped by the unseen. They reflect on Clémence Farrell's opening keynote, Immersion in the Exhibition Space, and the symposium's threads around immersive design, digital technologies and audience engagement.
Beyond the symposium, they talk about a rather eventful side of the trip: an unplanned stop at Motol University Hospital after Ian came down with a nasty ear infection — a moment that turned into a genuine shout-out to the Czech public health system.
The episode wraps with a round-up of theatre and performance happening in Edinburgh this April and May, and closes with a reading from the Climate Change Theatre Action anthology.
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast 13 from Prague
00:00:15
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to Podcast 13. I'm Ian. And I'm Vanessa. And we're coming to you from Prague. This is episode eight and we've just attended the Prague Quadrennial Symposium, Performing Exhibitions, Curating Scenographies, which took place from the 13th to the 15th of April at Archa in Prague.
00:00:35
Speaker
70 plus speakers, 5 thematic panels, 7 flash talk series and the whole thing was framed around the lead up to PQ's 60th anniversary edition in 2027.
Experiences at the Prague Quadrennial Symposium
00:00:46
Speaker
We gave a flash talk of our own. We caught an extraordinary keynote. And we also, well, we'll get to that. End up seeing a bit more of the Czech health system than we probably would have planned otherwise.
00:00:58
Speaker
I also got to spend some time doing a site visit because I'm part of the curatorial teams for the US and Canada for the next edition of the PQ. So let's dive in.
00:01:15
Speaker
Right, for listeners who haven't come across the prequadrenial before, I don know that you are very familiar with it, Ian, can you give us a quiz sentence or just a brief summary of what it actually is and why the symposium for next year matters so much?
00:01:29
Speaker
So the pre renderialer the PQ is the world's largest event dedicated to s sonography and performance design. It is, as the name implies, hosted in Prague every four years. And 2027 is going to be the 60th anniversary edition.
00:01:44
Speaker
Bit of a milestone. The symposium is part of the pre-programming building towards PQ 2027. The theme for it is performing exhibitions, curating sonographies, and it sits right at the overlap of exhibition making and performance making.
00:02:00
Speaker
And because we're a little over a year before we'll get to the actual quadrennial itself, it's a good time for the global sonography community to check in. It's also an opportunity for those who will be curating for each of the different countries that are bringing work to the PQ.
00:02:17
Speaker
Works differently everywhere. But it's the opportunity to do a site visit of the facilities where the exhibition will be taking place in 2027, which is also worth noting. It's a return to Vista Vista and the industrial palace where it hasn't been since 2019. And in twenty ten It had to, the PQ had to be moved for the 2011 one because there was a fire that burned down one of the wings, which is nearing at the end of its restoration. We got to see it's still under construction, but luckily the PQ won't be the first event going into it.
The Significance of the Prague Quadrennial
00:02:55
Speaker
The symposium was held at Archa, one of a notable theater here in Prague, which is an iconic venue for experimental and international work. In spending our air time at the symposium,
00:03:08
Speaker
Vanessa, what were some of the threads that you noticed running through those three days that felt most alive? Yeah, so for me this is quite new. And then what I could gather was that there are know lots of passionate people from various different organizations and departments. the It felt like there was a lot of buzz in the room. it was There was talk about sort of like working with with leaving like the Living Archives. You know, scenography as something that is alive and, you know, more than just something that is like more like an admin job that you file away.
00:03:39
Speaker
There was some talks about lighting. There was some talk about sound, about some curated performances for next year that were involving sound and which were very exciting. New approaches to exhibition. There was a full keynote on immersion, which we're going to get into in a minute.
00:03:54
Speaker
And then there were perspectives that moved beyond the humans, so how scenography relates to the non-human actors, the ecologists, environments. And this is where our flash talk was about you know how scenographic involvement you know goes beyond and it you know it takes part within the venue
Flash Talk on 'Venous Sonographic Apparatus'
00:04:10
Speaker
itself. Yeah, on Tuesday afternoon, we gave our flash talk. It's a just a 10-minute talk, part of one of the seven series that ran through the symposium.
00:04:18
Speaker
Our talk is called Venuous Sonographic Apparatus, Curating Infrastructure, Absence, and Performance, where we were talking about how sonography isn't the only thing ah that happens on stage. it's It's shaped by all this unseen infrastructure, which we, as visually-oriented showmakers ourselves,
00:04:38
Speaker
are thinking about all the time when we're running a venue who programs the venue who funds it and who gets it and who gets filtered out are all parts of what you see there and therefore also part of like what that aesthetic what that sonography ends up being what that built environment ends up being so we sort of see venue 13 and we're talking about the venue as a case study and reframing venue making a cinenographic practice So the concept of absence was something that we pointed out as well. Is that something that you'd like to discuss a little bit more about how it is actually of benefit to be able to acknowledge and work with the concept of having absence within a venue?
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think that, you know, absence isn't a lack. It's, it can often be a decision. Like to think about it's not about what we don't have, but what we're taking away to allow us to be able to move ahead.
00:05:29
Speaker
It can reduce scale, which needs to, requires the artist to think about ah necessity and what the specific choices are and what the core of the concept is that like,
00:05:41
Speaker
You know, just because something is of a smaller scale or fringe scale, as we deal with a lot, it's not a lack of ambition or failure of ambition, right? I wonder if there are some of those points that also like resonated with you coming out of
Venue Design and Audience Experience
00:05:54
Speaker
that. So one of the points that we did in our presentation was that we have Having control of the venue and having the the design allows us to have slower tempos and resist the the more faster, big bigger, quicker pressure of the large festivals. To have the luxury to dictate your own pace is good both for the audience and also for the people that work within the venue. It encourages more appreciation. it gives a breather. It like encourages time and space for mental mental health. So this is something that we would like our venue and more venues to start taking into consideration. And we are aware that in the world that we live in, we have to always have ah really quick changeovers and just you know, what's the next show and what's the next thing and what's the next set.
00:06:41
Speaker
But if we do take that minute to slow down, we will be able to create a better bear production and the audience will actually feel it. I do believe that the experience of the venue and experience of the show start way beyond the curtain rises. Yeah, I think it has impacts on sustainability.
00:07:00
Speaker
You are extracting less, so there's less waste, there's less carbon. Just from a metrics point of view, all the points that you just mentioned in terms of, you know, people being people, being just more humane.
00:07:13
Speaker
as an apparatus. It matters for accessibility, having that sort of pace in some smaller spaces that are physically like barrier free, but also offer a lot of support in terms of where people might need, you know, supports around not just those, those physical barriers, but also, you know, in terms of relaxed performance, that this this slowing things down and thinking about how you're setting up the systems to encourage these as well, and that this really opens up a more democratic festival that, you know, is primed for better global representation. Even though the Edinburgh Festival is the largest arts festival in the world, it sort of suffers from the fact that it there's so much going on, the pace is so breakneck,
00:08:03
Speaker
It is so expensive. Trying to figure out how to do everything is so complicated that if you're coming from far away, if you can't invest that time, your own time in that, and no one's going to make it apparent for you, it can really eliminate it as a possibility for a lot of people. And that's something that we're trying to work against so that that type of work can't can exist. So that, that, and that type of synography, that type of thoughtfulness ah can exist in that as well.
00:08:30
Speaker
How did people end up responding to the talk? What came back in conversations afterwards? So after the talk, where we had the ah yeah the whole, there were other talks after me, and then we took this break. And in the break, we had a few people approach me and they said that how what we're doing is very aligned with the PQ2027. We've had people with other venues that they actually run venues themselves.
00:08:53
Speaker
and They're coming to me to say that they resonated with with our flash talks because that's how you know they see their venue and how these are changes that they want to implement into their lives. And then there were some interest from other organizations and artist organizations that didn't know that this is something that Venue 13 can do outside of the venue itself.
00:09:13
Speaker
So there were some inquiries about some production and uncertain shows that they're actually quite complex and they liked that our point of view was very experimental and very enthusiastic. And there was this this element of like, we enjoy the journey and the discovery. And then they came to me and said they haven't heard something or someone speak in that kind of enthusiastic tone. And they said, well, I have a show. It seems really complex.
00:09:38
Speaker
Would you mind having a chat with with us? and So believe that i said it was really good ah opportunity as well to show that, you know, you have to get together with the people that resonate with your show and with your venue, just so you can get the energy and, you know, get the shows created.
00:09:54
Speaker
One of things that I know about the symposium is that they weren't live streaming it. They were recording everything and they're planning on making most, if not all, of the program available for people to view later, perhaps in preparation for them getting to the headspace of coming into the exhibition in 2027.
00:10:13
Speaker
So once that's out, we'll make sure to share those things. And so you can see it, even if you weren't able to be with us in Prague this last week.
Keynote on Immersion by Clément
00:10:26
Speaker
That said, one of the things that really stood out was the keynote, which was Clément's first talking about immersion. The symposium opened on Monday morning with her keynote. She's a French scenographer, designer, exhibition architect. She's based in Paris.
00:10:42
Speaker
And it was her first time presenting here in Czechia. So I did little of research on her and basically she trained in Paris. and She founded her studio in 2008 and she has had more than 70 exhibition projects, including the 36th St. Paulo Biennial and the 2024 Biennial of Contemporary African Art in Dakar. She had her work shown at the Louvre Abu Dhabi, the Grand Palais, Versailles, and many, many more prominent places. And in 2016, she won the award for a European educational program for Naturdetective at the Stuttgart Natural History Museum. Now, the keynote was called Immersion in the Exhibition Space.
00:11:29
Speaker
What does iion immersion actually mean in her practice as opposed to how we throw the word around in XR or in marketing contexts? Yeah, for Farrell, it's not just a special effect. Immersion is a dynamic, scenographic strategy.
00:11:46
Speaker
It's really about how the space positions the audience physically, emotionally, and politically. So he's drawing from these concrete projects across Dakar, Louvre and Abu Dhabi, the Showa memorial work.
00:12:00
Speaker
and She's showing that immersion is a way of shaping social and political engagement, not just dazzling people, not just creating, you know, a pleasant environment to be in, but it does have this, like,
00:12:14
Speaker
curatorial view of your thinking about how somebody's engaging with that space and how they're moving through that space actively for it. And this is, this is interesting. We're going to be having some immersive work within the venue this year. And it's something that we encourage people to come to us with because we like to solve that problem, even in of the limited space that we have.
00:12:35
Speaker
But that other sort of topic that we focus on quite lot, AI, where where, Vanessa, can you tell us where that entered the conversation? Because the symposium had a strong digital technologies thread running through it.
00:12:46
Speaker
How did you see AI coming across this conversation when we're talking about performance
AI's Role in Scenography
00:12:52
Speaker
in space? Yes, I believe that this is more of a summary of my personal view on AI, because I did not see ai itself as a topic. In contrast to the two previous conferences we've just been to, which was in Toronto and Malta, which it was a prominent topic.
00:13:07
Speaker
At the PQ symposium, it didn't feel like it was. and It felt like there were users of digital technologies, but there wasn't a strong mention of AI tools themselves. I think there was sort like a silent mention of like you know AI is allowing for things to happen, such as connection, and bringing collaborations together.
00:13:27
Speaker
But I didn't see a particular talk about, you know, this is what I've achieved with digital AI. But I do feel like the immersive concepts are increasingly and increasingly intersect with generative AI. Yeah.
00:13:39
Speaker
So immersion risks becoming spectacle without the depth when tools outpace the intent. I believe that as an analogy, feral framing gave us a useful counterweight. So the immersion was the curatorial decision.
00:13:54
Speaker
and So instead of it being something technical, it's something that the artists will have do. We have the power to the decide. how do to create that immersion. And how, you know, basically we did speak about this in episode seven, again, Malta and Toronto. So the same question came about, but without necessarily AI. So what is the intent outside of the tool that you're using?
00:14:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think that that's a really important thing to consider. Well, with any tool, but, you know, with AI becoming so prevalent, so what we're seeing, one of the things that I noticed in, you know, we've done some testing of various platforms that are meant for artists. I'm actively involved in research that is looking at creating tools for artists that is, you know, using...
00:14:42
Speaker
ai Like to allow them to use it in a way that centers their voice as opposed to, you know, giving it a prompt and then just getting an output, the sort of black box that we referred to before.
00:14:54
Speaker
And it's interesting to see that it's like... It can be really exciting to use a generative platform and just like come up with a random prompt or to ask it even to prompt itself. And then you come up with something that feels very finished, but oftentimes there's not a like you're saying, there's not the intent. There's not necessarily the soul behind it. You're not trying to create something specific. And it actually is a really difficult tool to use when you're trying to be specific and trying to create something that is, you know, has integrity with your intent for it. And I think that's it that's an interesting thing that we see sort of weaving through things as well, is that it can help you get to some places, but...
00:15:37
Speaker
it's really hard to get it to, it can't replace the artists. And it's actually where I think a lot of the interesting controversy and the conversations happening around how people are, you know, on the business side of creative industries, like we're going replace a bunch of the artists that we have, quote unquote artists that we have, not to say they're quote unquote artists, but you know,
00:15:58
Speaker
could be involved in the creative process at any step with generative AI, etc. And then we've heard tales of people being like, oh, no, no, no, we have to hire them back because it didn't actually do what we wanted to do because you need the artist's hand. You need the like the human hand in thinking about that, especially when you're you know making work for other humans as well.
Ian's Health Adventure in Prague
00:16:21
Speaker
But yeah, on the subject of humans helping humans, yeah should we tell them about our detour? I think i think we should, Ian, because not everything went to plan on this trip. It's true.
00:16:32
Speaker
You are lovely audience. Maybe thinking these folks get around quite a bit. And this is a lot of the work that we're doing together. i also travel for other projects on my own.
00:16:45
Speaker
And it caught up with me and more specifically my ears. So the the ongoing cabin pressure adjustments, especially having recently they had a cold time here for that, ended up with a pretty bad ear infection on this trip. So while the symposium carried on, i got some bonus experiences with the Czech health system up close at the Motul University Hospital, which I have to say that was fairly efficient.
00:17:15
Speaker
And I was impressed. I got very excellent care. It was very easy to come in there. They have an entire foreigners department. Once I was able to find it the first time, which was a little harder to do while suffering, but then it just became very familiar for it. So past me was glad that there was a sense that I was there. Thanks to Vanessa for helping orient me, especially in my encumbered state before I started getting treated for it. And yeah, I walked away with a virtual pharmacy of antibiotics. and You got everything.
00:17:44
Speaker
i got... One of everything. One of everything. And i shouldn't have to worry about any infections for a little while as that clears my system. But I got cleared to travel a few days later, had to extend the trip a little bit. and But you're better now.
00:18:01
Speaker
I'm better now. ive yeah Yes, almost there. thing I think I'm nearly 100% there, but good to travel. Good to fly.
00:18:15
Speaker
But while we've been in Prague, Edinburgh has kept going. So here's a quick roundup of things that you can
Upcoming Theatre Events in Edinburgh
00:18:23
Speaker
still catch. And Vanessa, I hope that you'll be able to tell us a little bit more about these because you're the one who's going to be in town. Yes, I'm going to do my absolute best to catch a couple of these.
00:18:33
Speaker
So in Summerhall, we have Dear Wendy by Kat Johnson. we That will cap in on the 3rd and 4th of May. So it's an autobiographical piece written and performed. So fits well with a kind of embodied personal storytelling that we always have highlight in the in the podcast.
00:18:51
Speaker
And then we have the Black Diamonds and the Blue Brazil. That's at the Royal Lyceum Theatre between the 8th and 23rd of May. I'm quite excited about this one. This is a world premiere stage adaptation by Garrick McNair with original music performed live by Rick Ross ah from Deacon Blue.
00:19:11
Speaker
The story of Sally returning to Cowdenbeath for her father's funeral and then being drawn back into the world of the local football club. A nice reminder that Scottish theatre is making a lot of work right now about community, the memory and, you know, going back to the place. Yeah, I know that there's a possibility that we might be able to do a little bit of work in Edinburgh in preparation for a campfire return.
00:19:36
Speaker
We've got some scanning to do and some development to do. So it's there's a possibility, if my ears allow me, that I will get to see some of those. But I hope that you'll be able to share some of that out either here on the podcast or through your channels, through VKIND Dirtz. Absolutely. I will definitely, there's a few things that I have to see on the list and I will report back.
00:20:02
Speaker
As always, we're getting to the point in the podcast where we want you to join us for a reading from the Climate Change Theatre Action. This short place continued to bring together voices from around the world, responding creatively to the climate crisis. For this episode's CCTA reading, I've picked something that reminds me of the script that I used for a workshop at the 2023 Prague Courtenay.
00:20:28
Speaker
I don't have access to that one right now, but it involved a tree that somebody was interacting with. And we had done a workshop around...
00:20:40
Speaker
how to communicate with that tree. And the tree happened to be in a pond. So that's how we got to this one. This selection is Pond Life by Alain Kwan.
00:20:53
Speaker
She's a Chinese Canadian writer, actor, dramaturg, and director for theater, TV, interactive media, She's currently based in Toronto, Ontario.
00:21:04
Speaker
Her plays have been produced across Canada and internationally, including works for adult audiences as well as TYA, Theatre for Young Audiences, for those who don't know. Her TV credits have been seen around the world.
00:21:16
Speaker
She received her MFA in Dramatic Writing from and NYU the Tisch School the Arts and her BA honors in Droma from the University of Alberta. In commenting on Pond Life, she wrote, To write Pond Life, I pulled together research I had previously conducted for a web series about critical environmental issues and cast it with the humble frog, the quote-unquote canary in the coal mine of sensitive habitats around the world.
00:21:42
Speaker
I want to explore not only the struggle of life under environmental threat, but how interconnected we are with our world and with each other. While these characters may seem powerless, they, like us, can find strength in community.
00:21:55
Speaker
There are two characters. There is Pat, a frog, and Harper, another frog. The setting is a small pond. Can I be Pat? You can be Pat, and I'll be Harper.
00:22:07
Speaker
Okay, I will do the commentary as well. Okay. Lights up. Pat and Harper sit on a log, staring at their pond. I mean, have you ever seen it like this? no never.
00:22:19
Speaker
It's a travesty is what it is. You said it. a travesty. Look, you don't have to convince me. I mean, look at it. There used to be water up to here. And it looked good, you know?
00:22:29
Speaker
Not clear, but healthy. Not this sludge that it is now. I know. The plants, the weeds, they're choking everything out. Oh, I know.
00:22:40
Speaker
And they expect us to live here? Raise our young here in this swamp? The smell is the worst. That's rot, is what it is. All that algae. It gives me a rash.
00:22:51
Speaker
No kidding. Look! I developed a skin condition. Jeez, that looks sore. they give you anything for that? What's the point? We're into stuff every day. It'll just come back.
00:23:03
Speaker
If that's what's happening to you on the outside, I don't want to even know what's happening to you on the inside. Did you hear what happened about... Did you did you hear about Pete? No, what happened? Tumors. Oh, jeez. Bad?
00:23:15
Speaker
All over him. Nothing they can do. Jeez, he's our age, you know? know. He hatched the same spring we hatched. Oh, i know. Pete, can't believe it. Used to be the thing that would kill one us one of us would like be birds or snakes or winter. Or abductions. Or abductions.
00:23:33
Speaker
Right. Now it's tumors. Who knows what it's going to be like for our kids or our kids' kids? We're already seeing weird stuff. No offense. Hey. You know, I know you love your kids. I do.
00:23:45
Speaker
But the extra limbs? The ambiguous sex organs? What does that have to do with the pond? Everything! Look around! Each year is warmer. Warmer water means more algae. More algae means less water.
00:23:58
Speaker
Less water means so all the junk that is flowing into our pond is more concentrated each year. Our eggs hatch in that water. Next thing you know, the pond will be dry out completely and it will just be these dried husks baking in the sun.
00:24:13
Speaker
Take it easy. This is our home. We've been here for generations. Oh, this whole thing makes me so mad. It burns me up inside. Don't get so worked up. Where would we go?
00:24:23
Speaker
how does this end? We're dying here. Pat's cheek starts to puff out. Hey, you alright? Slow down. You're breathing too hard. Nice and easy. Come on. I just, I, I... Hang on. Breathe.
00:24:35
Speaker
Harper looks around, spots a fly, kills it and gives it to Pat. Here. What? No. Come on, take it. It'll make you feel better. You sure? Harper nods. Pat eats the fly.
00:24:47
Speaker
Thanks. No sweat. No, I mean it. Times like this, you know. Used to be you knew what life had in store for you. You knew what decisions would be like, what to do, to be around, what to expect of life.
00:24:59
Speaker
Predictable. Yeah, predictable. Now it's all a mess. It's like I don't know what to do from one day to the next. It's all too much. Listen, all we can do is what we can do.
00:25:11
Speaker
What do you mean? i know it seems overwhelming, but what we are going to do, roll over and die? No. We've got to keep on going. You know, my 507th born came up to me the other day, scared about the future. I tell her, you know, this pond, our lives, it's all we got.
00:25:29
Speaker
We need to do what we can to make things better while we're here. Even if it's small and feels insignificant, it's better than doing nothing. Or as sitting around croaking about it. We may be humble creatures, but there's no reason to not try. How else are things going to change?
00:25:44
Speaker
Keep things clean. Don't waste food. Stay away from plastic if you can. That's a tall order these days. That stuff's a menace. And if we don't have anything good to offer, get out of the way of the folks who do.
00:25:56
Speaker
Don't be a jerk, though. Exactly. That's good advice. Well, we'll see if she takes it. You've got good kids. I have high hopes for the coming generations.
00:26:07
Speaker
They know what's at stake. Harper kills another fly, offers it to Pat. Nah, I'm good. You have it. You sure? Pat nods. They look out at the pond. You're a good friend, you know that?
00:26:17
Speaker
You do. Yep. Yep. End of play.
00:26:24
Speaker
Well, I think that that was a good choice for reminding me of the very specific scenographic exploration that I did with a group of workshop participants in 2023.
Reflections on Venue Design in Scenography
00:26:36
Speaker
So thanks for taking that trip with us.
00:26:40
Speaker
I think what this trip for this symposium has really underlined for us is that sonography isn't just what happens inside the frame. It's also the venue, the infrastructure, the health system that patches you up, and all the various areas that we visit that have been hosting visitors for thousands of years.
00:26:57
Speaker
Prague has long been a meeting place. Here at the center of Europe, it's one of the reasons the PQ is here. It's one of the allowed meeting places that the communists would allow those from either side of the Iron Curtain to to meet up with each other. All sonography, in a way, all sets a scene. And as we head towards the PQ 2027 and our own 2026 season at Venue 13, those questions about infrastructure, immersion and absence will keep shaping how we program.
00:27:26
Speaker
Thanks for listening. And we'll see you next time. Thank you for listening to this episode of podcast 13. If you enjoyed our conversation, make sure to hit subscribe so that you never miss an update.
00:27:39
Speaker
You can find us wherever you get your podcasts. We'd love it if you could take a moment and leave us a review. It helps more people discover the podcast and join the community. As we are starting a campaign for our vegan food truck outside the venue that's especially useful to us so that we exist in this very specific niche as a hybrid vegan climate theater producing venue in Edinburgh.
00:28:06
Speaker
We need to make all the friends that we can. If you've got thoughts, questions, or ideas for future episodes, we'd love to hear from you. You can reach us at podcast at venue13.com and at close the socials at venue13fringe.
00:28:20
Speaker
Our back episodes and transcripts are on our website at venue13.com. The music you heard through the episode is by Dusty Dex, which we get through Epidemic Sound.
00:28:31
Speaker
We read Pond Life by Aline Korn as this episode's a selection. Until next time, thanks again for tuning in. We'll be back with another episode soon.
00:28:43
Speaker
Woo!