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Get Out Of My Body Mum! - Freaky Friday & The Substance
32 Plays1 month ago
It's Mix and Match—sorry, I mean Mitch and Max—are back with another ~freaky~ episode of Block-Busted, the film review podcast that swaps things around every episode, not just this one!
First, they swap bodies to learn the power of respect in Freaky Friday (2003), before finding better, more beautiful and more perfect versions of themselves in The Substance
Do you want your fanmail and/or deep and warranted criticism to feature in the next episode? Email us at [email protected]
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Review Plans
00:00:07
Speaker
Welcome to Blockbuster, the movie review podcast where we swap bodies every week and you just don't know this. I'm Mitch. And I'm Max. And this week we're looking at but the Freaky Friday and the Substance.
00:00:32
Speaker
How they doing?
Hosts' Banter and Drinking Habits
00:00:37
Speaker
Great as always, Mitch. Great as always. Wow. um Now that I'm in your body, I must say that um something that I don't often get to say to you is that you are one handsome devil. And I think you're the best friend I've ever had, Mitchell. ah And you're just pretty great and fantastic. Mitchell. You're like weird back problems, dude.
00:01:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's from carrying this podcast.
00:01:10
Speaker
I had to dig on myself. Damn it. Welcome to the podcast this week. Ladies and gentlemen, and they thems. How are you all doing? How are you doing max? mid um We can we can we can drop a bit now. Cool. I'm getting confused. How are you doing, Max? I'm doing all right. How are you? I'm doing pretty good. I had one beer with you earlier today. Spoilers. Spoilers for our life. Spoilers for life. And now I'm having a second beer at home while I drink now. I've now pavloved myself.
00:01:47
Speaker
I've pavloved myself multiple times with this podcast. First, I want to cough every single time we do the, um, the, uh, intermediate sound. And second, I now always want to have at least one beer when we do it. So, and mean we could call that Pavlov, cause we'll call it alcoholism. Um, it's only once a week though. So like that doesn't count alcoholism. I mean, it's up to you. I'm happy to call it Pavlov's beer. Let's call it Pavlov's beer.
Theme of Body Swap and Spoiler Alert for Freaky Friday
00:02:14
Speaker
But I'm excited for this week because we have an excellent theme. Max, what's our theme? Our theme is body swap. Do I need to say more than that? I think Body Swap, I think you're more than that. I think that's enough. You're super long. Body Swap featuring actors who like peaked in the early, in the early in their careers. We've gone to them for a long time and they came back in a big way in really, uh, we've gone to the well of peak. We've gone to the well of peak.
00:02:47
Speaker
too many times like weve weve we did that well okay we did that two weeks ago with Beetlejuice and I don't think we should do it again it doesn't need to be long every single time either like sometimes it's specific enough in just the fact that but dont why don't we body swap doing body swap which is technically a spoiler for one of these movies I mean it's Not really. That's in the trailer. No, it's not. and no any is i Okay. The trailer goes like, have you ever imagined a better version of yourself? No, no, no. But seriously, like in all seriousness, are I didn't know. I thought what happened was that like the same body.
00:03:26
Speaker
got younger. I didn't realize it spewed out because there's no indication of like what is actually going on. It just says, I got the gist of like, oh, there's some process where you are in a younger, more fit body. But I didn't know that it was it spewed itself out the back. I figured that out later, because I saw the poster where like the spine was all stitched up. The poster sort of gives that away.
00:03:48
Speaker
the but Look, if you've seen the trailer and you see the poster, you can kind of put two and two together. But I think before we go any further than that, I am going to put in a major spoiler warning for Freaky Friday, which ah is...
00:04:04
Speaker
What am I going with this major spoiler warning for Freaky Friday and the substance? Just Freaky Friday. but just but No spoilers for the substance only for Freaky Friday. we're We're going to spoil the substance but we're not going to warn you about it. We're not going to warn you.
00:04:22
Speaker
So the the internet didn't like that
Overview of Freaky Friday and Its Cultural Impact
00:04:26
Speaker
and just went... bo oh Alright, Freaky Friday, released in 2003 and directed by Mark Waters. It stars Jamie Lee Curtis, Lindsay Lohan, Harold Gold, Chad Michael Murray, and Mark Harmon. Max, can you freak a Friday summary up for me? The day before her mother's wedding rehearsal, which is two days before her mother's wedding,
00:04:56
Speaker
Anna has an argument with her mum which results in them swapping bodies and they have to do each of his things for the day until they learn the power of self-respect.
00:05:13
Speaker
other respect, regular respect. So this movie, this movie is just kind of in the cultural zeitgeist as like a thing. ah I feel like everyone kind of knows the concept without you don't have to have seen it.
00:05:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's at the very least it's it's osmosis its way into people's brains. ah That might help because this is maybe the third or fourth remake of this film. I'm not sure how many times they've done this. I think it's actually only the second. I swear there's like a 1930s version and a 1990s version.
00:05:48
Speaker
There was a book. Oh, in 1972. That makes sense. That's the fifth installment in the franchise. There's a Freaky Friday franchise. Yeah, baby.
Freaky Friday Franchise and Upcoming Sequel
00:05:59
Speaker
What's the Freaky Friday franchise? he wait So we have Freaky Friday from 1976. 1976. Yeah. some Summer Switch from 1984. Yep. A billion for Boris in 1985.
00:06:18
Speaker
Disney's Freaky Friday in 1995. That's the TV, that's the movie though. um Not the, yeah, this is, it's a television film. Right. um Then Freaky Friday 2006 was the one we watched. We watched 2003. What are you reading? Every single date is off. Sorry, sorry, sorry. 2003, I was reading August 6th.
00:06:47
Speaker
It's 2003. Okay. Then we had freaky Friday, 2018. And then in 2025, we're getting freaky a Friday. So it hasn't come out yet. Freaky a Friday. Cause we were talking about this earlier. Freaky a Friday hasn't actually come out yet.
Lindsay Lohan and Jamie Lee Curtis's Careers
00:07:01
Speaker
Doesn't look like it. oh Um, who's going to meet in it? Is Lindsay? Jamie Lee Curtis, Lindsay Lohr. Chad Michael Murray. Yeah. They're wrong.
00:07:14
Speaker
So I've seen like two movies with Lindsay Lohan in it, um one of them being this one and the other one being Mean Girls. She's pretty like.
00:07:25
Speaker
charismatic performer. Like I feel like let's, let's, let's get into it. All right. Obviously the star in this is Jamie Lee Curtis, right? Like she's a great actress and she, she's fun as the mum role. Like I was playing the character she originally plays, but then once she switches into playing the daughter, um,
00:07:49
Speaker
That's kind of really good. Like it's, she's really brilliant as, as a it's it's a very not serious performance, but that's okay because this is a not serious film. What do you think Max? Um, I love Jamie Lee Curtis and the career that she's had. I think she's I had this like crazy career, and i'm we i'm there's no way of avoiding talking about this, especially in relation to um the second film that we're talking about, The Substance, um in that she started at the very top end um as the final girl in Halloween.
00:08:38
Speaker
heck yeah that movie you've seen or that movie he's a movie i oh what I know. And then she kind of just did other stuff for a while, ah all the way down to doing, you know, a Disney channel movie, which yeah but there's, there's people, respected people who've done that. Uh, Julie Andrews did that. Oh, the princess diaries in the princess diaries and Hathaway was in there. And that's how she got started though. You know, um, princess Ari's three's coming out there at some point. They're doing that. Um, and then she just sort of had this like very successful. I would argue very successful revitalization of her career, um, from
00:09:26
Speaker
probably from um knives out onwards. Um, with, what sir sorry, was her career ever like properly over though? It wasn't over over, but it's one of those actors. She's one of those actors that sort of like faded into the background for a long time. Sure. I would argue. Yeah. Um, and then like came back with,
00:09:52
Speaker
knives out. And then my, one of my favorite performances, um, like in, um, this film specifically, and this is a film with um a lot of really great performances, which is everything everywhere or at once. Um, I think you forgave her the fact that she also did Borderlands. Um, I'm ignoring the fact that she did Borderlands. She was also in The Bear. Um, but I yeah i um absolutely agree with you. I think Jamie Lee Curtis is fantastic, and Jamie Lee Curtis really nails the balance between ah drama and comedy that you sort of expect in a Disney Channel movie. um and I know we've done a Disney Channel movie on the show before, and we both
00:10:39
Speaker
did not like it. um And it's, I think, very interesting. I think, Freaky Friday as ah as a film because it is a Disney Channel movie, um but it actually feels like it stands up. um Which which which i I say with the highest ah praise yeah in that there's therez very few made for TV movies that go out and sort of enter the cultural consciousness in the way that this film has. um And um yeah, I absolutely agree. I think Jamie Lee Curtis is a huge part of that um and the performance that she gives um as this sort of very ah funny, dramatic character, but also just the fact that she plays
00:11:31
Speaker
um the teenager body swapped so convincingly for me. I think it's just very, very funny to see Jamie Lee Curtis perform in that way. And I think, uh, she really nails it here. I agree. ah But I do think like, I don't want to sell, uh,
00:11:53
Speaker
Lindsay Lohan short though either. I think she did a pretty good job of like, I think the only thing that she falls down is that just that she doesn't have the experience that Jamie Lee Curtis has. I think Jamie Lee is a much more seasoned actress and therefore just has garnered a greater and broader range of skills than Lindsay Lohan has in this film. But I do think that Lindsay Lohan actually does a really good job of being like this older, trying a more middle-aged woman in a teenager's body. Like I think, I think both, while obviously the the standout is Jamie Lee Curtis, but Lindsay Lohan is no slouch in this either. I think both do a very good job.
00:12:35
Speaker
I think for me, like the obvious comparison here is Lindy Lohan from Freaky Friday to Main Girls, which was both directed by Mark Waters. um ah Freaky Friday is 2003, Main Girls is 2004. I think you see this pretty big spike in in the quality of her performance over the two films.
00:13:00
Speaker
and um That's not to say that her performance in this film was was not good, but but rather that, yeah, it's absolutely something that where she's just starting to come into her own as a as performer here, and um ah as a result, you get a little bit... You get some weaker moments at times, but for the on the whole, I think...
00:13:27
Speaker
um she does a really great job and she has this very like stern presence, I think, um in in the in the in the film as this very... ah Again, I think she does a very convincing job of... um uh, portraying a stressed out middle-aged woman. So I wanted to try something with you. All right. Switch bodies with me. I want to switch bodies with you. No, we already did that. ah seeing Um, I.
00:14:03
Speaker
You know me and my I like ah analysis. You love analysis. I love so many analysis. You could analyze anything. um Sure.
00:14:16
Speaker
um but very a I have been recently, and by recently, I mean over the last six months or so, been trying to, not necessarily intentionally, frame stories through um some different frameworks. and the one the The one that is ah potentially the easiest framework to to look at it is ah the hero's journey. Mitch, are you familiar with the hero's journey? I am familiar with the hero with a thousand faces.
00:14:48
Speaker
that do that, but yeah, that's first it's the same thing. It's the same thing. Well, yeah, it's, it's the book where the, this, the, the here journey was first. Yeah. described Um, and so I, I know the circle. Yeah. So I wanted to, I wanted to, well, do you want for anyone who isn't familiar
Hero's Journey in Freaky Friday
00:15:08
Speaker
to kind of like just explain? Yeah. So, so, um, uh, uh, uh,
00:15:14
Speaker
What do you call him? Like a media critic? Philosopher? It was a psychologist? Scholar? Scholar. I don't think it was a critic. I think it was more a scholar. Fancy man. You can say scholar. Scholar is a perfectly usable word. Fancy man Joseph Campbell. He's a writer apparently.
00:15:32
Speaker
I mean skulls are around something wrote this book in 1949 called The Hero With a Thousand Faces. and um Part of what he talks about in this book is is this deconstruction of ah what he calls the monomyth or or um the hero's journey, which is a framework that he argues can be applied to any um story um told.
00:16:00
Speaker
and every story. He's almost right. He's almost right. Now I'm going to, I'm going to cheat a little bit. Um, there was a revised version that was made by Christopher Vogler. Uh, I think 2007. Yeah. I'm vaguely familiar that there was like a new version dropped, which was 17 points to 13 to 12 points. So it won't take us as long.
00:16:27
Speaker
And it's a little bit simple to understand because yeah um there's not a step called apotheosis. It's like when you make drugs out of um weeds and flowers, like an apothecary.
00:16:45
Speaker
no it's It's not. It was a joke. It was just a joke. So I wanted to talk to you because I think that I wanted to see, I want to see how this goes. Sure, let's do it. I want to talk about this film and deconstruct it. We'll do both films. We'll talk about this one right now. And deconstruction, deconstruction in the framework of the hero's journey as per Christopher Vogler.
00:17:16
Speaker
um So, and I think this is a really great movie to do it with because there's some really, it's it's written in a very simple, sort in of easy to understand way. sure And I think it'll be an interesting look at how the structure of of stories are written and and and and and what this can teach us about cinema. Sounds like a ah something.
00:17:45
Speaker
Let's just do it. Do you have it in front of you or do I need to bring it? I do have it in front of me. So I'm going to let you, you can leave this conversation. I'll start. So, um, we start with an ordinary world and I think this is, um, pretty clearly portrayed, um, in Freaky Friday. We open up with, uh, Anna and I've forgotten the mum's name, Jamie Lee. Is it Terry? Um, Tess.
00:18:14
Speaker
and Tess. and our um tests called hanna and tess um And they have a sort of like archetypical mother-daughter relationship, I would argue. um I have a sister, her name's Anna. You used to dox your sister like that? Well, it's not that... umm But that we also have your last name. but I mean, sure, but like...
00:18:42
Speaker
i don't I don't think that's that out of it. I don't think that's... I'm just going because the movie and the character is insane. I thought about it too as well, but I didn't say anything because I didn't want to dox your sister. Well, I'm happy to dox my sister. right if you yeah i will have an do sister if i'm If I will say that she exists as a person, I'm not giving any more personal information beyond that. Other than... ah other than just drop her address as well. Why not growing? No, I don't actually know where it just. But I remember.
00:19:20
Speaker
ah having arguments with my parents in a very similar style ah ah the that is portrayed at the beginning of this movie. um Mitch, can I have a comment? No comment. Actually, I have no comment. I'm really confused about what I'm doing. okay so so this to the heroes jody with what yeah okay we gonna we we're gonna we're gonna we're going we're gonna spend own this and The second step is is the call to adventure. um yeah mit which Mitch, do you want to identify this one for us? Is this some them going to the Chinese restaurant? The call for takeaway.
00:20:00
Speaker
I mean, yeah, I guess so. i Like some general toast chicken and some dumplings, please. Um, I think this is a great time to talk about the weird racial undertones of this movie. Look at me go. I am the segue king. Yeah, look, I mean, I'm conflicted because I, and we, you and I had a bevy earlier and we had like, we shot the shit a little bit. Oh, that's not the word. And we did mention this as a thing because While it's not ever present in the film, it's the main drive of the con, like the main, not the central conflict, but like what subverts the central conflict. You could say it's the call to adventure.
00:20:41
Speaker
Oh, so that's what you're going to. OK, so the whole that's the whole of adventure because that's all right. Yeah, no, we can do that. Yeah, yeah, that's the adventure. ah But there's a very poor representation of ah Asian culture and a very high affiliation with mysticism in this film. And it's frustrating because.
00:21:04
Speaker
If it had been done better, it would have been pretty funny because I just really like that the daughter is really frustrated with the mum's crap. That's actually a kind of like a little or anything. There's like mother daughters kind of throughout this film. like That's what the film's about.
00:21:23
Speaker
So they're kind of dotted around and there's this mother-daughter relationship at this Chinese family. It must be a family or in Chinese restaurant. And the mum wants to get involved in Lindsay Lohan and Jamie Lee curse's ah argument. And the daughter's like, no, stop, stop getting involved in people's arguments. You're so nosy. It's very funny, but just unfortunately there's a layer of like,
00:21:45
Speaker
racism just over it that like makes it rough to enjoy. yeah the the like The central conceit in the scene is this is this like parallel between but yeah that that parental relationship and then they just slap this. like ah yeah Eastern mysticism over the top and it's just like the poor people speak with a really broken accent as well Like it's not good. And then we go back later when they go back later There's that part where they're complaining because the daughter knows what's happened because she knows that this is a possible thing It's like the only characters who are aware of this thing are the two as the mother daughter in the film Lindsay Lohan and Jamie Lee Curtis and then the
00:22:29
Speaker
family owned, uh, Chinese, uh, restaurant workers. They also know what's going on. Cause they're like the mum somehow just does this on the red. apparently you on it Yeah. the cook and And there's a part where they go, they go to the restaurant and, uh, this is after they've switched bodies and and they're like, can you switch us back? And they're like, the and the daughter's like, no, I can't, but I can give you $10, like 10% off.
00:22:59
Speaker
It wasn't it was that it was, it was, let's talk about it. And then she argues with her mom in Cantonese, which I thought was a really funny scene. Like if you that argument is funny yeah you ignore the fact that every, like there's just this mild level of, not even mild, there's this level of racism. over the The fact that it's two people arguing the language that the characters can't understand and then turning back to them and blatantly lying to them is a really funny bit. That's a thing I enjoy, yeah. Because it's like, make fun of white people more, but also just like, it's
00:23:38
Speaker
It's such a simple bit and it's funny because I love that bit a lot because it's always like, you can tell the argument is so heated, but then when they turn to the people who don't understand, they act so polite and like, it's just really funny because then they always buy it because they can't disagree because they have no, the people who have been lied to, they can't disagree because they have no clue. But anyway, I think we've gone on about the racism long enough in this film. Let's continue on the hero's journey. All right.
Body Swap Experience and Communication
00:24:05
Speaker
The hero's journey, part three. We have the refusal of the call. This is a pretty easy one to pick out. Again, I think they both Anna and Tess wake up in different bodies and are kind of freaked out about it. Yeah. Freaky Friday out about it. I have a question for you. Hit me. Yeah. If we saw bodies, you'd be freaked out. Yes.
00:24:28
Speaker
I feel like, yes, because switching bodies is not something I consider possible, just blatantly. I'm happy to suspend my disbelief for a film. ah Especially one that's main conceit is that's what happens.
00:24:48
Speaker
But in real life, I'm kind of want to believe that it's not possible. How about you? Would you be freaked out? I mean, I think I'd be initially freaked out. I just like, I was, I was, I was thinking about this yesterday after I watched the movie and, and so she was with me or switching bodies in general. I like switching bodies in general. And sure. I just, I'm slightly disappointed that it wasn't. Well, I mean, I was, I was talking with Mr. Manager um at the time. Sorry. Um, I've actually been asked to, um,
00:25:18
Speaker
change their name on the podcast to Mr. Dude in honor of um the the bass player. I think it's the bass player in the band. For this one specific podcast? I like Mr. Manager. Mr. Manager is good, but Mr. Dude. Look, I weren't dead name, but like Mr. Manager was better. Well, you can leave that up with Mr. Dude. Mr. Um, Mr. Dude and I, um, we're talking about it and- Just lack character consistency.
00:25:54
Speaker
um And we, oh, the thing that I kept coming up against was like, I just don't think my life is all that interesting or rather there's nothing that I do that if I swapped into someone else's body, um, that like once I got over the shock of being in someone else's body, that I wouldn't just like go about my normal day. well Because like, I just like, I'd probably not go to work and that would be about it, right?
00:26:27
Speaker
but I would have to go to your work. I mean, no, we just like don't like, you just wouldn't go to work. Like you'd call in sick dude. I would call in sick for you. I mean, if you were in my body, yeah would you go to my work or would you call in sick?
00:26:44
Speaker
see like no i want to But the problem is that you're now currently in a midst if you, okay. So if you switch bodies with me, I have now a degree in animation.
00:26:55
Speaker
which is useless. And you're currently doing a degree in writing, which is also useless. Yeah. we switch forty Okay. Okay. Okay. but But it's not, we don't switch like minds. We don't inherent inherit the capacities. or That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Like I, I would, I don't know. Cause first of all, I don't feel like we treat each other that poorly. So I don't know why we're switched. Like this is not a lesson for us.
00:27:23
Speaker
you know what i mean but It's just like a good fun time because um we were arguing about who would be cool. I'm happy to concede to you, man. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. yeah i would consent But I would concede to you. and So that's the problem. we were arguing with and I would say, you're cooler, Max. And you're like, no, Mitchell, you're cooler. That was what was going on. and yeah um I just peeked my mic. ah but The lesson is self-love. Yeah, that's that's the problem. We have too much respect for each the other person. We have no self-respect. Hence why you mentioned self-respect at the start of this podcast. Because that would be the problem. That would be a lesson that we would have to learn. But
00:28:06
Speaker
Anyway, my point is that I don't know how we would switch back. Oh, I guess we have to learn self-respect. So that's fine. We don't learn self-respect. That's impossible because one of us has a degree in animation.
00:28:22
Speaker
No, one of us has a degree in animation and the other person is getting a degree in writing and no people who have self-respect do either of those things. So we're screwed, we're stuck in each other's bodies. so So I'd have to make the best out of the thing. The first thing I would do is I'd come clean to Mr. Dude. um I would say, Hey, Mr. Dude, I know I'm in Max's body, but I'm actually Mitchell. Because that is important. Like Mr. Dude didn't get with you for only your body. Mr. Dude got with you for your mind.
00:28:53
Speaker
I said only. I said only. It's equal parts, okay? I'm not saying that you're unattractive. I'm saying that your mind played a part in the attractiveness, okay? This is not a diss. You're taking it poorly. I need you to not, because now I feel really bad. But I tried to make sure that's not what I said. He just phrased it in the weirdest way. Oh yeah, I got i got with Mr. Dude.
00:29:21
Speaker
ah that Was that the problem? was the godless part yeah That's fine then, you can laugh at that. um but i am So I would come clean with Mr. Dude because i don't want ah I don't want to creep out. mr i don't I don't want to live a lie with Mr. Dude because so Mr. Dude is a friend of mine as well. So like I don't want to do that to Mr. Dude. like that's That's bad. like I guess would we decide to just live our lives forever in like our where we ended up or would we try and like switch like would you try and simulate back into your life in my body and would I I mean if like well I mean I know I actually what would I do so like yeah this is a question like would you go to my job
00:30:08
Speaker
I think that comes back to that. they wanted to go to my job Your job sounds horrid. like Sorry for anyone from Max's job who listens to this podcast, but you complain a lot about your job.
00:30:21
Speaker
I remember really early on when people started listening to our podcast and you told people at work, we were like really careful to not say anything about your job on the car. So now I can just say, you hate your job. You, you complain about it all the time, which is fine, by the way. I have nothing against you complaining about it, but it does mean I have no interest in going to your job. I don't want to.
00:30:43
Speaker
What's the next part in the hero's journey? We've been on this for so long. All right. So we have, we have, uh, number four, uh, meeting with the mentor that got you back to the restaurant. Well, I don't, I don't know because that skips a lot of the film as well though. It does skip a lot of the film is, um, is Lindsay Lohan being controlled by Jamie Lee Curtis, the mentor.
00:31:11
Speaker
i I feel like yes, but also no, because... Well, that's the problem, right? She's on the same journey. they're They're both on the journey together, and that sort of does lean me more towards the return to the to the Chinese restaurant as the... as the meeting with the mentor um in this this particular hero's journey. yeah But it it it does feel a lot like there's no guiding figure. And I think that's part of what makes this movie really quite interesting is it's about these two characters learning from each other um rather than being sort of like guided in ah in ah in a ah you its particular direction. They sort of just have to go and work it out.
00:31:57
Speaker
um Yeah. It's like they, um, they're each other's guiding, um, figure. Yeah. Um, can we then, before we can yeah know yeah um, I just noticed that the budget for this was $26 million. dollars How much money do you recommend made at the box office? Um, given that it was a Disney channel movie, I'm going to say like $10 million. dollars That is like a guess that I would make, but Wikipedia is saying 160.
00:32:27
Speaker
That's a lot. That's a lot of so long. That's a smash hit and I'm surprised it took this long to get a legacy sequel. Like so next year is when the legacy sequel is going to come out. like it's it's like Yeah, I guess it is a legacy sequel, isn't it? Yeah, you're going to hate it.
Legacy Sequels and Character Portrayals
00:32:44
Speaker
Just inherently. I mean, I just on principle don't like legacy sequel. I know you don't. We that had a whole episode of both wholeho and about me complaining about legacy sequels. Yeah, even though you hadn't even seen the original one. I'm still grumpy about that, by the way. You shouldn't have seen the original one before you watched the new one. Like that's just.
00:33:03
Speaker
Anyway, so what's the next part of the hero journey? So we have the final part in act one, crossing over the first threshold. I'd make the argument that this is where they have to go and be the other person for the first time. It's a little bit out of order then. It is a little bit out of order. Because this happens before they go to the Chinese restaurant. So we get to play around with this a bit. Again, I think we look at the hero journey as a bit of a framework and not necessarily as a rigid structure. Yeah, I totally agree.
00:33:33
Speaker
But I think this is very much the the first time that perhaps Tess in Anna's body talks back to the teacher and embarrasses him about e-picking on her.
00:33:50
Speaker
um yeah for like being attracted to her mom 30 years ago? Well, for being ah ah for being a um ah sad little man. I was going to say someone was lying. I can't think of the word. It's it's like just immature and lording power. like like he's being he's He's abusing his power to exact revenge on the daughter of someone who rejected him in high school 30 years ago. What would you say?
00:34:21
Speaker
yeah Could you go as far as to say incel? Absolutely. Absolutely I would. That guy plays an incel on every single film though. He's like the bad guy from the first Garfield movie. Um, and he's also in one episode of community where he plays actually, I'm not going, it's too confusing to, but yeah he plays the same person. He's always like this drop. I assume he must be a lovely person in real life because people who play these types of characters all the time always turn out to be like really nice people in real life. It's because, it's because people who can play it know that they're taking the piss.
00:34:57
Speaker
Yeah. And so I, I assume this guy, I want to assume he's lovely. I can't remember his name either, but he just, appear he just appears everywhere and plays the exact same character of this dropkick loser, middle aged boarding man with a round face. And he like.
00:35:13
Speaker
He does it well. Like he's always hateable. he He plays it well. But I love, I would love to assume that this is actually a lovely guy in real life. Cause I want to believe that. Can you imagine being typecast as like the asshole in cell guy? I can't imagine being in show business to be perfectly honest though.
00:35:31
Speaker
We cross into the second act with um number six in our journey, tests, allies, and enemies. Normally this will be the majority of the middle part of the film. um what what What were your favorite points, little vignettes, if you will, from from this film? I know I've got one, but I want i want to on ah see what you think first.
00:35:54
Speaker
I'm a huge fan of Lindsay Lohan in Jamie Lee Curtis's body telling all of Jamie Lee Curtis's clients has asking, how does that feel? That is a, that is a very good saying. And I think my favorite one, and look, it does, it is playing up a stereotype, which is a bit rough, but I do think my favorite one is when there's the inconsolable woman who was just crying and she goes, ah and he goes, how does that make you feel?
00:36:23
Speaker
Like, like, it's just funny. And look, yeah, like, I ah i don't know. Also, I really like, um, this is more at the end though, but I do like the part where, um, the main love interest for Lindsay Lohan falls for Jamie Lee Curtis simply because he is interested in the brain of Lindsay Lohan. and but brain is i think i think Yeah. I was going to talk about this like that first scene where, where, um,
00:36:49
Speaker
he sort of meets her yeah i'm in the in the cafe where they start talking about the bands. And I just love the little gag about um ah one of them asks whether they like the white stripes and they just the response of um no get a bassist.
Pop Culture References and Favorite Scenes
00:37:07
Speaker
I think this is so funny for a... But again, this is a Disney Channel film. like they They're talking about these these like rock acts that are mike prettyy like anti
00:37:21
Speaker
and then they anti-authoritarian. I think they mentioned the Ramones, they talk about the Vines, they talk about um ah the Braiders, I think. um It's so 2000 though. It's just who was popular in 2000s. I was also very proud of myself. um Because when that scene started, there was a song playing in the background of the cafe. And I turned to my mum, who I was watching that with, and I said, that's a flaming loop song. Can I just say it was big music.
00:37:57
Speaker
This movie did put me on edge at the very start because it started playing a really good song, which I can't remember who plays... Hold on. It's like, it's like, remember me and you, I do. I think about you day and night. That original version is really good, but then it switches to like a rock version. Yeah, it's the 2000s rock cover.
00:38:33
Speaker
I did not like that. rock the the The original version is such a good song and I do really like that song. So so thoughts on on the rock cover of... What is it? Wonderful World by Lilian Strong.
00:38:55
Speaker
Must have missed it somehow. Aw, come on. I see fields of blue. When was that? Oh, it's like two thirds of the way through the movie. Why don't I remember that? That's crazy. Oh, man. Maybe I will maybe maybe i was like picking up my the hot dogs from the front that they ordered. They ordered some hot dogs. All right. At this point in the movie, reach we reached the approach.
00:39:26
Speaker
to the innermost cave. Mitch, what's the innermost cave in this movie? Well, that's like the... Can you remind me what the innermost cave is in in the actual theory? i i I feel like I know, but I think I've forgotten.
00:39:42
Speaker
Is it like the deepest? It's like the worst part, right? It's like the, it's for the worst thing to overcome. So yeah so the classic example now, the classic modern example is, um, when Luke Skywalker, um, goes into the cave to yeah find Darth Vader as an illusion from the force. Yeah. Okay. In episode four, five, five. Yep. It's good to sit empire strikes, but empire strikes back. Yeah.
00:40:11
Speaker
Uh, the deepest, when would that be? I guess it would be like the biggest thing they face is the wedding itself, right? Like going to the wedding with a reading rehearsal. Sorry. So I'd say like going to the wedding rehearsal, especially since.
00:40:30
Speaker
Jamie Lee Curtis in, no, sorry. Lindsay Lohan inside Jamie Lee Curtis's body. Doesn't want to marry someone in general, but also is having issues with Jamie Lee Curtis replacing her dead dad. I think it's that on top of, uh, or rather alongside this, this other central conflict that, um, Lindsay Lohan brain Anna, um, wants to go to this, uh, like auditioning thing. Yeah. Um, Wango Tango on the spot on Wango Tango at the house of blues.
00:41:07
Speaker
I noticed it was also um KISS FM, which is a real radio station in Melbourne, which I found really strange. It didn't exist in 2003. Well, it's not showing Melbourne, right? like They just picked a random thing and it just turns out like that's a thing that we have over here. which i don't ah When it started, I have no clue, by the way. like I mean, the American radio stations all have like four other codes because of reasons. So I assume it's something to do with that.
00:41:36
Speaker
but um i just thought that was funny it funny but i think yeah the the the the innermost cave i think is the approach or the the conflict of um ah Jamie Lee Curtis wanting to do the wedding, and Lindsay Lohan wanting to do the band music, and also not wanting to do the wedding. um And there's sort of like conflict over that. And I think i think um yeah that that ends up being our our core conflict in this film, which leads us to the ordeal, which we kind of just talked about.
00:42:15
Speaker
I feel like it's kind of mashed into one thing, right? Like it's just the constant them having to deal with each other's everything. And then like the fact that Jamie Lee Curtis and Lindsay Lohan's body can't play guitar, but is being put on stage to play guitar. Yeah. You have that sort of like the, yeah, the approach ends up being like when they're at the reception and then, um, the,
00:42:41
Speaker
actual deal is the like she's on stage and she doesn't know what to do and then jamie lee kurtis is behind the curtain and shredded enough yeah that's awesome scene i love it because i think it's so funny watching jamie lee kurtis just like girl ham and losing her hands standing there like yeah just just egg fishing it are mean i I mean, you know honestly, there is like actually like a somewhat emotional scene as well. Like it's just, it's nice to see the two work together and it's nice to, cause at this point in time, both of them have investment in it because Jamie Lee Curtis doesn't want to be Jamie Lee Curtis in Lindsay Lohan's body doesn't want to be embarrassed by not being able to do what is required of her in Lindsay Lohan's body. And.
00:43:25
Speaker
Lindsay Lohan and Jamie Lee Curtis' body really wants, um, this, uh, rehearsal, i not rehearsal, this, um, uh, what's called audition to go well. And so they just both, they come together and Lindsay Lohan thinks on her, Lindsay Lohan in Jamie Lee Curtis' body thinks on her feet and like gets through it. It's just, it's a good, it's a nice moment and it's a,
00:43:49
Speaker
I mean, I assume we're going to like get to this, but like what I was going to say is like maybe continue. Um, yeah. So, so, I mean, it sort of flows into the next bit, which is, yeah, yeah the final, the final part of act two of the reward. Um, we're in h three right now, but yeah, I mean, I mean, it's sort of like act two, act three, act three. Doesn't really work in this movie, but it's only two acts, right? It's a two act movie with it ending. It's a two act movie with an end thing.
00:44:18
Speaker
All right. I'll take that. Yeah. Like an envelope. Yeah. You have that. I think what you're going to start talking about, if I'm wrong, but the, the, the speech that a toast scene, that, that, um,
00:44:31
Speaker
Uh, Jamie Lee, Jamie Lee Curtis as Lee Curtis and then finishes after they swap bodies back, which everyone freaks out or not everyone freaks out, but like the, the dad, the dad, the dad, not the dad, the husband who's going to marry Jamie Lee Curtis as Jamie Lee Curtis.
00:44:51
Speaker
ah goes, he says, uh, do I want to like, don't know what's going on? She goes, no, you don't like, you don't want to know or something like that. um Yeah. And then that, that leads us to part 10, the start of act three, the road back.
00:45:05
Speaker
but kind skip shot Which I think they sort of, yeah, they kind of like just go, I mean, it's the, it's the reconciliation between the two. I'd say the, uh, the speech works in the exact same way. Like I'd say that what was the one right before this again. Sorry. Can you say that again? The road back? No, the reward. The reward is when Jamie Lee curse is still being controlled by Lindsay Lohan's mind. And then the road back would be when the exact switch when Lindsay Lohan finishes off the speech as Lindsay Lohan. Yeah. Yeah. Um, we have the resurrection, which I'm going to throw another spanner in the works and say, I think that's when
00:45:47
Speaker
Look, multiple events can be the same thing in the hero's journey. It's okay. And then finally, the return with Felix. I think that has to be that closing scene where they're at the wedding um and Lindsay Lohan is with Jake.
00:46:06
Speaker
Um, who had been, as we talked about earlier, hitting on Jamie Lee Curtis because Lindsay Lohan was in her body. Um, and she gets the kiss at the end. dark ge Which is actually the second kiss Lindsay Lohan's body has received from this man, which is a really freaky way to imagine it. Because, um, it's, it's, lindja hu ah yeah. I think it's really kind of insane that Lindsay Lohan or rather, um, yeah, Lindsay Lohan's mum in the movie, who I've forgotten in a test, goes on, yes, the reasonable thing to do to stop this guy harassing my daughter who is in my body is to just give him a big old smooch. No, no, no. It was...
00:46:58
Speaker
Oh yeah. No, you're right. But that was because she wanted him to stop being in love with, with, with the, but he wanted him to start the mind of an on he all Jamie Lee Curtis. Damn. If you start trying to explain this movie, like in words, it becomes an absolute mess, which is fine because that's not how movies are meant to be presented, but still. Yeah, it was just, but yeah.
00:47:27
Speaker
I do like, I do find it really that there was, there is that line there when right after Lindsay Lohan being controlled as Jamie Lee Curtis kisses um Jake and she walks back to the car where Jamie Lee Curtis being controlled by Lindsay Lohan.
00:47:41
Speaker
um is and she just off the hand says, well, he certainly likes you for your mind or something like that. That's funny. I like that was funny. I was like, yeah, I think this film is, is quite funny and is very amusing. Like the dialogue is well written. Yeah, there's a lot of just like comments that just like slip in that are just comedic. Yeah, just very sort of like, yeah, spoken gags that are very good. And I mean, that brings us to the end of the hero's journey and it brings us through to the end of the film. I had a good time with this film. I think it's definitely one of the standout D-coms, as they're known to see channel original movies.
00:48:25
Speaker
um Any closing remarks, Mitchell? I think fortune cookies aren't actually that tasty. I mean, they kind of taste like plastic, right? They're meant to be almond, right? But they just, I think so, but like um mostly just, they mostly taste the plastic. I think cardboard. It's just weird how
00:48:52
Speaker
I mean, this is not really a place to get into it, but I just think it's really weird how... there's American nice Chinese food that's become symbolic of China or like in general, like Asian Americanized Asian food has become symbolic of the different places, the different Asian countries. Like that just makes me really uncomfortable when I think about it. It's, it's, it's something I was thinking about this also because we, we talk about it a lot in relation to like America and like Asian food or America and Mexican food.
Cultural Implications of Cuisine and Ratings
00:49:20
Speaker
Um, but the, like one of the earliest or earlier examples of this is the British, uh, sort of colonisation of Indian food. chiktikamasala The guy died just recently. like it's It's just something that is very like, it's become sort of, the yeah, very iconic, iconically Indian cuisine and it's just like, this doesn't exist. And it's just like that stuck
00:49:46
Speaker
like people yeah The people who have had this put on their cuisine in their culture are stuck serving it because if they don't have it on the menu, then no one's going to order from them because they all everyone wants is butter chicken and and General Sohs, which i so I don't know anything about General Sohs, but I can't imagine any traditional Chinese dish was ever called General Sohs chicken, but it sounds so Americanized to me.
00:50:11
Speaker
I could be wrong. Anyway, should we give some scores? Yeah, let's do scores. I'm giving this film three arguments with my mom. I am giving Freaky Friday three fortune cookies that I definitely would not take seriously and one that I might if if ah if I was having a a weird day. A freaky day. A freaky day. You know, there was a lot of freaky. There was not on a lot of Friday. But it was all on Friday. I know it was all on Friday, but like that was mentioned once in the whole film. And like yeah obviously the events are very freaky, but I didn't really feel a lot of the Friday.
00:50:56
Speaker
yeah turn friday yeah feel very friday You didn't get the Friday vibes. No one really should be more yeah but like there's no like my office talk about like, Oh, I'm excited for the weekend. I'm excited to chill out. No talk about a Shabbos.
00:51:13
Speaker
No Jewish representation. Can I just say before we before we go on to mini media, I want to say that the got the main patient we see of Jamie Lee Curtis must be absolutely rich.
00:51:27
Speaker
to be able to go see a psychologist every single every day, every single week. Yeah. Also, I hope Jamie Lee Curtis, even though she's being nice enough to let him call on her honeymoon, I hope she charges him because that's still like her services. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, charge for your services. Exactly.
00:51:50
Speaker
no hey mit Hey, hey, hey, me hey, hey, hey, Mitch. Hey, Max. Hey, Mitch. Hey, Max. I just opened up a fortune cookie. and You're never going to guess what it says. Does it say Max and Mitch's mini-media? Wait, wait, actually, i got I got one. I got one. Can I do one? Yeah, yeah, go, go, go.
Mini Media Segment and Personal Stories
00:52:12
Speaker
It's just me saying Mitch and Max's media mini.
00:52:17
Speaker
there
00:52:26
Speaker
All right, let's go. All right, I'm gonna go first this week. Yeah, do it, do it, do it. I decided to support the arts this week. Look at you go. um And by supporting the arts, I mean, I watched the NRL grand final.
00:52:42
Speaker
but so what you said you gonna do i'm nothing on nothing the talk about nl grand final was like that was of all i was so that was a fun that was gonna be it i was trying i was trying to do a funny bit i just don't think it land I didn't realize you weren't being serious. The only problem was that I know we had talked about what you work. I did actually support the arts.
00:53:02
Speaker
um Mr. Dude and I went to the Cheerful EF4 Podcast Festival. ah It's a third year of the festival running. It's a British comedy podcast festival ah that has just made its way to Melbourne um and had some pretty cool acts, including a favourite of of of ah I guess the people who make this show, um ah a show called ah Plumbing the Death Star, which we saw live, ah and they're very funny. They're very funny gentlemen, and ah i I appreciated being ah in in the room with them while they concocted their
00:53:52
Speaker
bits. They are a pop culture podcast that asks ah really important questions. And those questions can include things like the prompt that we saw, who would be the most annoying character fictional character to sit next to on a long haul international flight? Toby Moore. While raw dogging it.
00:54:14
Speaker
Oh, isn't, like, no, um... Yeah, like, no, your phone's dead, no headphones. Nothing. Gotcha. Um, it was fun. I hope we had a good time. It was very funny, um, as their podcast tends to be, uh, again, where we're here at, at Blockbuster, where big fans of, of that net, of their network and their, the shows that are on it, including, uh, that one. But I have a funny story to tell you, Mitchell, um, I lost my wallet while I was there.
00:54:43
Speaker
What do you mean you lost your wallet? and I left it there. Oh, by accident. How did you do that? It just fell out of my pants. That happens. And I didn't realize for two days. Two days? Yeah. So did you not have to pay for things for like two days? Well, okay. So here's the thing, right? So we went on on a Friday night.
00:55:07
Speaker
And then I must've left my wallet there on the Friday night. Cause then on the Saturday, we, I was at home all day and I just sort of like mooching around at home doing some cleaning up, doing, you know, sort of home stuff as you do. And then I almost sat night, I must've gone to get it because I think I was going I think, I can't remember, maybe I was going to get, go to the shops or something? I couldn't find my wallet. I was like, oh my God, I can't find my wallet. And so I checked all the places that my wallet could be. Like ah under the bed, in the bathroom, and like none of it's there.
00:55:51
Speaker
Um, so I went, okay, I'm not dealing with this right now. I don't, I don't need my wallet. It's fine. I've got my cards on my phone. Cause that's what you do these days. Um, and I'll find, I'll find the wallet. Uh, and then the next morning I got up, I had no look and find it. And so I sent, I sent the podcast festival a damn on Instagram.
00:56:17
Speaker
um saying, hey, do you have my wallet?
00:56:24
Speaker
And within about 15 minutes, they responded and were like, yeah, we found it on Friday. ah I mean, that's nice. So so I then have to go back and get it. Before I did, I bought an air tag to put in my wallet so I don't lose it again.
00:56:39
Speaker
Um, because I just know that I've, I've lost my wallet before. I will do it again. At least now I can look out on my phone where I've put it. dude This is the start of a mystery novel where someone steals your wallet and then you track it and then track it with my air tag. Dude, if that ever happens, invite me along. I want to be involved in a mystery in in a mystery about the missing wallet and the attack.
00:57:04
Speaker
Well, it could become a conspiracy. It could be a greater conspiracy. Like a wallet conspiracy. A wallet theft conspiracy. A con walletry. But I got my wallet back. I had even, I had $5 in cash in my wallet, which I never, I never have cash in my wallet. I had, I had $5 in cash in my wallet that one. And it was still there. So I was like, that's good. Cause I was kind of worried that I was going to,
00:57:27
Speaker
get it back and then it' was going to be I was not going to be there and um I would forget that i did i that I had cash in my wallet and then I would just lose $5 and I wouldn't know it. Which would be very like me.
00:57:42
Speaker
mit ju This week I was, well, last week I was blindsided with a change of programming. is is this Is this what we're doing? Right before um we were supposed to go into the episode last week, I was told that this week's episode needed to change because otherwise I was going to have a co-host who wouldn't want to be on the episode. I'm sorry that I have taste. So.
00:58:13
Speaker
I had already made plans though to see the film we were going to see this week with a friend. And cause I was like, I want to hang out with this friend and I also need to go to see this the the movie that we're going to do. But then the episode changed and then we did this episode instead. Uh, in the original episode, we were pairing killer clowns from outer space with Joker folio do. And so I went and saw Joker folio do on Friday.
00:58:40
Speaker
And when I went and saw it, I was wearing, um, a new brand of underwear, Nobbies. And I recently bought like a pack of nuts. I don't know if that's how it's spelled, but that would be funny because it has my nuts in it. Cause you know the one that's like nibble Nobbies nuts.
00:59:00
Speaker
Oh no, it's spelled differently. I think it's, it's still K N O B B, but I think it's I E S instead of Y S. Okay. Yeah. Cause nobies is that's like, it's possessive. Like that's the nuts is my, this is my, this is, that's not these nuts. Yeah. But where this is just like a brand. So it's not bees. It's like multiple knobs. Yeah, exactly like that. Um, cause I mean, I only have one in my, in my pants, but like there's other people probably wearing it. So and some of them probably have knobs.
00:59:31
Speaker
As well as a multiple Nobby, like it's a plural of Nobby. So you're asking too many questions. I can't answer any knobs anyway. So the underwear is nice. It's made out of recycled plastic. Um, it, uh, they, they have a little fun designs on it as well. Um, one of the ones I have is called the Kraken. It has like a Kraken, like we're pulling a ship down into the water. So I can crack, crack can,
00:59:59
Speaker
like but Like my butt cracked? No, not like that. Like a squid, giant squid or octopus. Like tentacles reaching out of your butt.
01:00:09
Speaker
and It has as one that has like a bunch of flowers on it. There's one that has fungus and there's like a mushroom. It's just right on my penis. It's pretty cool it's pretty nice i'd recommend they're a little bit expensive but like the good quality and they get delivered and they have a new design every single month and then they are redo the designs either or if the design yeah sold out it's sold out forever basically like you yeah like is that like for the stock thing that um the sock thing for green brothers used to do. ah yeah it other one I think they still do it. They, they send you socks. Like you can, you can have it delivered monthly, but I didn't, I grabbed, well, sorry. I did say that they don't have a reader designs them. I grabbed one, I was given one pair to check, try out by a friend who really likes them. Um, like a new pair or old pair? A new pair. She, they didn't make me, uh,
01:01:03
Speaker
We're an old pair of their own things. were We also have different um ah biological sexes down there, so like I would need different things to what they would need as well.
01:01:14
Speaker
um So they gave me, they were, they were, they were nice enough to give me a pick side express an interest in. And so they gave me a pair, they, they, they gifted me a pair, which was really nice of them. And I tried it on liked it, loved it. It was great. So I got ah six more pairs. Um, and the only reason when I got six though, it was because one, there was a pack they were doing that was the greatest hits volume two, which is just a bunch that that one must've be been really popular.
01:01:38
Speaker
And then I also got one, I added one in called Fruity Booty, so it's called Fruity Booty, like butts, Fruity, Booty like butts, actually a bunch of fruit. Yeah, it was a bunch of fruit on it, it was nice and colorful. Yeah. I can't help but notice, but you haven't talked about the movie you're watching. Yeah, see, that's what I call a base and switch. Um, I don't want to talk about Joker and Volio, dude, because it's crap and garbage and it's a shitty film that sucks. And you know what? Even though I'm grumpy that you switched Episode on me. It's a good thing. We aren't talking about it because it sucked and I didn't like it um Bad film don't see it ah go watch the substance instead I guess
01:02:26
Speaker
Gotta pump it up. Two different bits. Yeah. All the Pump it up. Stop it. Pump it up. Dance. Pump it up.
Overview and Themes of The Substance
01:02:38
Speaker
Released in 2024 and directed by Karali Fagit. It stars Demi Moore, Margaret Kweli and Dennis Quaid, who apparently is also in the Ronald Reagan film is Reagan himself. um Who knew? Max.
01:02:56
Speaker
Can you... Hold on, I got this. um can Can you chemically create a synopsis for me, please? um I certainly can. I'm just going to give it my an additional spoiler warning for the substance here. Yeah. I think this is a movie that is better to go into blind.
01:03:19
Speaker
um and But also content wanting... You should know like what content you're going in to see. cause it is yeah so This is a body horror film. um there are There is body horror um and some degree of graphic violence.
01:03:36
Speaker
yeah um So please be aware of that before watching this film. Beyond that, it's a good film to go into blind. So if you haven't seen it and you want to go see it, which um and i I think I i would recommend, um pause the episode, go see it, and then em then come back after you've seen it. But that out of the way.
01:04:04
Speaker
ah when washed up actress Demi Moore. I shouldn't say it say that but it's infinite it's kind of true and that's sort of the point of the movie is functionally fired from her job.
01:04:22
Speaker
Um, as a host of a like TV exercise program, ah um, like aerobics exercise program, she gets into a vehicular incident, after which she is introduced to in a way including that she gets introduced to the substance, which is a drug that um creates a better version of yourself. um But ah the catch? You have to swap with that version and your old stinky version every seven days.
01:05:01
Speaker
um And the perfect version of of um of Elizabeth Sparkle, ah Demi Moore's character. um We meet Sue, who's played by ah Margaret Qualley, who basically replaces ah Elizabeth Sparkle, but gets greedy. And this movie, I think, ah talks about that and ah and but and the consequences and also about show business and men are bad. I have a question. on
01:05:49
Speaker
um With the two different bodies, is it one conscience switching between two bodies or is it like each body is kind of its own like has its own thing, but like you get the memories of the other one. i um'm ah I'm leaning towards the last, so full disclosure, this is the second time I watched this film, I saw it at Myth. Third time, right? Oh no, sorry, sorry. No, it's only my second time. No, no, sorry. I for some reason thought you came with me to see it when I saw it. My bad.
01:06:25
Speaker
I sort of myth and enjoyed it. I'm suggested to do it on the podcast and it's had its full theatrical, in its current full theatrical release. um And where was I going with this? I was talking about something in particular. you just say well I asked about ah the consciousness. It's something that I think is is particularly unclear and it's sort of intentionally unclear in that it doesn't matter a huge deal, um but ah my sort of like gauge on it yeah is more towards the latter.
01:07:02
Speaker
I feel like there's a lot to like dive into in this film in terms of its it's sort of like content and what it is talking about yeah on a whole bunch of different sort of aspects. but I think one of those is is the main character's narcissism, um Elizabeth Sparkle's narcissism, and how self-centric she is. um because of it being told several times that um she and Sue, her her um better self,
01:07:33
Speaker
um have to um exist as one individual. Both of them um fight against that pretty pretty hard um and then blame the other one for for not cooperating. and in the in this very To me, it seems very narcissistic, um very self-centered kind of way.
01:07:55
Speaker
um But the sort of reactions that they have when talking about that um on the phone to the substance place, it seems to be very much like they're not, there's not one consciousness fully in control at at all of the time, but rather like sort of two variations on the same consciousness almost.
01:08:24
Speaker
Yeah, like I agree that um that's my read to about is feel like there's an equally compelling ah case that it's like it is actually both just controlled by one consciousness and that put like the consciousness itself is just very oh what's the word unstable and is therefore not like there's a level of like maybe you split because of like switching between the two bodies. Like I said, look, I don't know why I'm doing this because I agree with you, but I'm just saying, like, I feel like there is a case. There is a case to be made for the other side as well. It does leave it intentionally vague. And I think there's like a small interaction with another but person who is taking the substance yeah and sort of like their relationship with their better self.
01:09:18
Speaker
um as well. And um i yeah, I guess like my inclination is more towards what we've discussed, but but it is is open and it is sort of like, ah encourages a bit of discussion about about um sort of what that sort of consciousness is and who really is in control. um Now, I think
01:09:49
Speaker
Given that we spent the time on Freaky Friday going through the Heroes Journey, I want to on i do it quicker this time that we want to give it a shot. um Not just because I think ah it would be good to compare and contrast it to, but also because I think the substance does this thing where it does a mini Heroes Journey inside the bigger Heroes Journey.
01:10:16
Speaker
and I'll talk about that when
Hollywood Standards and Body Horror
01:10:17
Speaker
we get to it. So, so Mitch, we start off at the beginning of Act 1 in the substance, in the ordinary world. Sure. Don't tell us about that ordinary world.
01:10:26
Speaker
Oh, it's um pretty ordinary. um We have stop walks of fame stars being placed into um wherever they put that. It's somewhere in LA. I can't remember the actual street name, but... um it's um it's sounds creative It's the very imaginatively titled Hollywood Boulevard. Is that what it's called? I couldn't remember. Yes. <unk> i know I went there once when I was very young. um There was a homeless man sleeping on the start of it. ah um So we have that, and it's it's ah it's a Hall of Fame dedicated to Elizabeth Sparkle, who was our main character played by Demi Moore. We then are introduced to her doing an aerobics workout. There might be something else in between that. It's been a couple of days since I've watched it. No, that's about it. She was doing aerobics. um It's very, very sexy. She's wearing a leotard. And there's other sexy women around her, too, you're also doing the aerobics workout. This is the first aerobics workout.
01:11:24
Speaker
Yeah, it's still sexy. Okay, okay, sure. I feel like aerobics is deliberately sexy, though. Aerobics is absolutely deliberately sexy. Yeah, so like that's my that's my point. is that like there is obviously there is a There is an absolute boost to the level of sexiness.
01:11:41
Speaker
at what is going on in this aerobic, these aerobics things at a certain point, but it starts off at a pretty high level of sex. Like, yeah, you get me. Um, yeah. Anyway, so she's she's sexy, but she's a bit older and that's like, you know, like just heard 50 song away. Yeah. By the way,
01:12:01
Speaker
We're going to say a lot of things that might be construed in certain ways. I don't think you and I are going to posit any opinions that are going to posit it, but we're going to say the film is going to like posit certain things. Jimmy Moore is still a very attractive person at the The conceit of the film.
01:12:18
Speaker
and especially at the start, is that Demi Moore, Demi Moore's character, Elizabeth Sparkle, is simply too old and unattractive i at the ancient age of 50. Yeah. um And I think you can sort of like, you look at the film, and there's so many points during the film that you go like, this Demi Moore is not, A, she's not really good for 50. Yes. And, and B,
01:12:49
Speaker
Just. It seems like such a ridiculous assertion that um this sort of you just stop at 50. I think this is one of the central themes of this film, is is this idea of um the expectations of um industries like Hollywood um pressuring specifically women um yeah into this lifestyle of achieving infinite youth.
01:13:21
Speaker
in a way. um And that's sort of held up by um the beauty industry, makeup industry, things like that. um And then just these um standards set by these network television um channels, these movie studios that pick these very young, very attractive um people um almost exclusively um over You know, some older, very attractive people. There's um big there's like this, 50 is actually old for the reported age that most women are driven out of the industry. like that
01:14:02
Speaker
I'm not saying that's a good thing. Like she's like, she'd like, she'd be thankful for getting to 50. I'm saying it's just really gross that like, even in a film about like, where it's, it's, it's insane to that that 50, this lady is driven out of her job. That is way more, um, what's the word? That's way more generous than what a lot of real life performers are given. And that's like really gross. Yeah. Um,
01:14:29
Speaker
so That's immediately followed by the call to adventure. and this This, of course, is um this car accident which leads her into a hospital office um and her interaction with um someone who offers her a USB with a video on it that tells her about the substance.
01:14:49
Speaker
you Which immediately leads into the refusal of the call. Can I just say though that we've passed over what is actually probably the grossest part of the whole film, which is Dennis Quaid eating prawns. Dennis Quaid, okay, all the shots of Dennis Quaid are gross and I love it.
01:15:05
Speaker
What's deliberate? Cause he's meant to be like the disgusting horrible person. He's the grossest, yuckiest man. And, and he put the whole scene on that guy's jacket. Cause he like doesn't wipe his hands. He just put the whole scene where he's telling Elizabeth Sparkle, though she's too old, he is munching on the largest amount of prawns sort I have seen in a very long time. yeah We get these extreme close-ups of his mouth, ripping the heads off prawns, and then that immediately cuts to a close-up of a dead fly in a glass of wine.
01:15:41
Speaker
and it's this this like very mean the cameras used a lot of the time when looking at Quaid's character, ah um these very fish-eye lenses. and and um You get this, both of these, not eccentric, but like theatrical villain knee to it almost, um but also just the nature of those kind of lenses means that um the subjects fill up more of a space. and um so much of this film does' ah So much of the cinematography of this film does a really good job at making everything feel too close and too intimate.
01:16:33
Speaker
um and And we really get that, I think, with Dennis Quader and specifically in this scene where he eats the bowl of prawns, where we just spend a whole bunch of time just with close-ups of his mouth um and his fingers and him pulling apart prawns in very Stark detail just like he's there's a way to do prawns like I mean obviously eating so shellfish is actually pretty barbaric because you're ripping apart this creature and you're pulling it apart but like He does it in a way. That's just like extra aggressive Wait, it's just anyway, we need to continue on the hero's journey. So we got the call and we've got the refusal of the call che throw it in the garbage He chucks for USB in the bin and then is good good on you movie stops there, right?
01:17:24
Speaker
So she's at the bar. So she throws a the the the USB out. She goes, we then see her at the bar being depressed, drinking a lot of martinis.
01:17:38
Speaker
um And she goes back and like reminisces about her like golden, golden age of being hot and attractive. I suppose her twilight age being hot and attractive.
01:17:55
Speaker
Can I say that? I don't know. I don't know what's appropriate anymore. i um And a drunken fugue state, o I would argue um she calls the number on the on the USB and the the number introduces her to who I would argue is the mentor. The mysterious voice on the other end of the phone.
01:18:23
Speaker
Um, what do you, what do you think about this as a, as a device? The mental through the phone that has been like having this like, like authoritative figure. We never see them. hu They're completely anonymous. Their intentions. They're like, um, Motivation motivations are unknown to us. Yeah, that's true. What's, what's your thoughts on that?
01:18:52
Speaker
Uh, I think what confuses me overall, like you say motivations, what confuses me overall is like, what is the motivation of the people who make the substance? Like they don't seem to get paid. Doesn't seem to be any money. one No one really seems to get paid at any point for anything during this film. Oh, but like you can assume that you can assume that, uh, Margaret Qualey is getting paid for doing her job at the thing. Oh, and it's sexy factory working as an aerobics instructor um slash soft call porn star. um But like I said, like you would think that they'd bring up. There's just no spot in the. ah In the process to obtain the substance and continually get the packages from the people who make the substance where money seems to be exchanged.
01:19:53
Speaker
So like what do they gain from it? like I understand that's not the point. I get that that's like just not the point in the film. like You're not really meant to be asking this question. but I'm asking it, like, what do they get from it? I don't know. Um, but yeah, you're right. It is interesting that there's like this weird, like dude who just kind of is talking and and throughout the film he's, he's kind of the anti-mentor cause he does the opposite of help. He just kind of keeps telling them like, he he gives vague information he's like, stop being a dickhead and do what we tell you and you'll be fine. And which that sounds like a mentor actually.
01:20:29
Speaker
Yeah, just a mentor. A very stripped down, uncaring, unmotivated mentor. like just like i What you do does not bother me, but I'm going to keep telling you like stuff what we can tell you. is This is the correct way to do things. I don't care if you do it. If you do or don't do it, I do not care.
01:20:47
Speaker
But this is what you're meant to do. Yeah, exactly. So I guess yeah, I retract my statement of an opposite mentor. they He's still a mentor, but just like, <unk>e completely Uh, anti, what's it called? Like, uh, anti-carrying. It's like anti. I can't think of the word. I'll think of it when this podcast, we stop recording and I'll be really frustrated. And then we have the crossing of the first threshold, which I think here is very obvious. It's the usage of the substance. Absolutely. Um, when which.
01:21:25
Speaker
Uh, Margaret Qualley is born from the back in the spine, even Demi Moore. Um, this movie has a lot of like, very, I think very cool. Uh, very graphic body high elements to it. And I want to call like prosthetic ah prosthetics and makeup. yeah I just wanted to get your thoughts on.
01:21:52
Speaker
Both, like, the body horror aspects of this film, um, not, um, Dennis Quaid eating Prawn's notwithstanding. Yeah. Um, that's Prawn body horror. We're not talking praw Prawn horror. Prawn horror. Um, what do I think? Horror? Prawn horror. Um, and like the usage of like special effects in this film as well.
01:22:21
Speaker
So the usage of special effects and like VFX and um all that is really good. It looks great. Everything that's like gross and grotty has this real tinge to it. it look i mean big Big spoilers for this film. The end of this film centers on a yucky, gross,
01:22:43
Speaker
classic body horror conglomeration type creature that is a mixture of Sue and Elizabeth. um and it's um It looks really good. It's really gross to look at. and and and like as Both of their faces are implemented into it. um One of them is like this stuck and like like just unable to breathe version on the back, which looked like it was there. Like it didn't look like a plastic version or something. It just looked like there was a, fit I was wondering how they did it. Honestly, like I didn't, I couldn't figure it out. Um, but it looks great. And then everything else, but it looks like there's the part when she first take, when she activates or the both times when the activation is used, there's this is part where we see an eye.
01:23:28
Speaker
like be born from another eye inside the head and the first one's only one because things are going okay but in the second one like multiple eyes born because things are going wrong that looks really good my big problem with this film is that there's just a huge chunk of movie where there's some really there's some really good there's a setup to what the body horror at the start of the film there's the initial body horror when the substance is used And then it's kind of just dead air for like a little, for a decent amount of time. And then we start going back into the body of horror again. um And that's my biggest problem. I'm going to make an argument. rachel
Objectification and Critique of Male Gaze
01:24:07
Speaker
Sure. I don't think you're going to like this argument. and i'm making make anyway Yeah, go. I mean, i' I'm not going to inherently disagree with you. I think, I think you're correct in the yeah the core conceit of your. Sure. I will say.
01:24:19
Speaker
the excessive objective objectification of women is part of the body but I would agree. I do agree. Okay. So like, and that's obviously like what the point of the film is about as well. Like like there's other things, but there's as any good film, there's multiple themes in this film, multiple points, but Like the big one is the objectification of women slash like just throwing them away when like their use is up or something like that, like that, that idea. And I do believe that there is a modification of women. That's a good way to describe it. Yeah. Um, I do believe that this film
01:25:09
Speaker
shows it does, there's a lot of sexy stuff in this that is shown in a way that is just like, really not sexy. Like it's, and it's good. Like that's a good, that's a good thing. Cause it's showing just how kind of gross this male gaze lens type thing is. I just find that that hit a point where I came to a film was it for the body horror. was it Was it too sexy for you? minutes Maybe it was. I think what because what happened was there was just like a long period of time spent on like. There's a part where Margaret Kweli is continuously taking fluid from um what's her name?
01:25:57
Speaker
ah uh Demi Moore and Demi Moore is becoming older and older because that's how it works like you have to reset the fluid and if you don't you drain the host um and that's like some decent body horror but it kind of got like it was it looked worse when she was like 50 50 grandma not grandma but then when she became full grandma it was actually not that bad. It was like the mixture of like part of you was all part of you. Wasn't that was the most spooky. And then once it became full, like all she's all old, it was like, just kind of looks like a babushka. You know, I noticed in the credits, um, that version of, of Elizabeth sparkle is, uh, credited as go on sparkle. Really? That's good, because she does look very gold on me. I like that a lot. There's a lot of comedy in this film, and it is a comedy after all. Yeah, it's a black comedy. Body horror. Body horror, satire. There's a lot of good comedy in this film, such as that, but there's such a long stretch where I feel like you could have
01:27:06
Speaker
yeah I don't want to take it away from the point this film was trying to make, but I do believe there was just a level of efficiency that could have been taken to this film and made it sleeker. You know, like it just, it just feels like it drags in the middle. And I think a lot of the problem is that to be perfectly honest, I think Margaret Qualey is fine. I don't, I didn't,
01:27:34
Speaker
Like and not not in like an attractiveness thing, but just in like an acting ability thing. I think there's just a spark missing that Demi Moore has. And I reckon once again, it's the same thing we had with, um, Lindsay Lohan and, um, and, uh, damn it. I'm Jamie Lee Curtis. It's just that Demi Moore has picked up more tricks, has broadened her skillset and just brings more to her role than Margaret Qualey does. But unfortunately, while Lindsay Lohan and Jamie Lee Co has kind of shared the screen time in that middle section, a lot of it is just Margaret Qualey.
01:28:08
Speaker
And it just kind of lost me. Like I just didn't, I wasn't, in I was more invested in Demi Moore's character and Demi Moore's character wasn't there. Like, I'm I, I quite liked expression that you didn't agree. Look, I,
01:28:24
Speaker
ah
01:28:27
Speaker
This movie's very sexy. I just want to put that out there. I think it's like a level of sexy though where it's not sexy. It's like excessively sexy. I think the word we should be saying is more horny. Because sexy implies appeal, but horny implies just like the presence of. I think it's sexy and then it becomes horny. I think it's always horny. Or becomes like male-gazy. I think it starts off, because horny isn't inherently bad, but then it becomes like the bad horny.
01:28:56
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, especially if they end there. the world The end is... and Going to the end. i brought it up So I have to bring this up before I forget who brings a child to a ah End-of-year party like that. Is it being filmed and like shut out? Anyway, like this just boobs on stage like live television Yeah, it's live television, right? Like I wasn't wrong in that like there's no I'm feeling sure that was live talk I was just i dr as confused about that the first time I saw it. I was confused about that this time I saw it. There's just titties on stage like out there and the it's
01:29:33
Speaker
That's not family friendly. Look, I have nothing against free the nip. I really don't go for it. We should we should be able to express each other themselves equally. and People should be able to express each other's nipples. Exactly. But currently.
01:29:48
Speaker
TV doesn't subscribe to that thought process. More importantly, the whole conceit of the movie is that like women are objectified by Hollywood and television. yeah And and the the fact that um you know boobs are part of that is that ah then when you put them on the TV, it's a bit weird.
01:30:13
Speaker
at At the same time, it's ah another sort of just like heightened level of... Well, I was wondering if it was meant to be like this like, oh, it's just so sexy that they just hit a point where ah like this world is so... Because it starts off like kind of normal world-ish and then it slowly becomes less and less normal world-ish. Like this world is so like sex driven that like they'll just put boobies on stage like like that. like Anyway, I know we've kind of gone through multiple levels of conversation, and I know we've maybe left some threads hanging, but we should continue on
Narrative Structure and Surreal Elements
01:30:46
Speaker
with the hero's journey. Let's go. We're entering the test allies and enemies, and I think this is the the start of the relationship that they have. trying to
01:30:56
Speaker
um coordinate between ah the two the two bodies and it's the start where they sort of have have these have this respect and then Sue overuses a couple of hours and ruins um there Elizabeth's finger and then Elizabeth sort of does revenge binge eating. How does that and affect her though? How does that affect Sue?
01:31:26
Speaker
I don't think it does. I think it's just like the, like, there was that weird, there's a weird dream that she has where the chicken chicken, which is yeah solid cool. That was a cool part, by the way. I liked that part, but I don't understand beyond that. Like, how's that? I think it's just like a mental thing, right? ah suppose It's like, Oh, I'm out here pulling, doing all the hard work and you're sitting on your ass and ate enough whole chicken. I got really worried at some point that like she was going to eat Margaret Qualey's character. Like I thought that was what was going to happen.
01:32:03
Speaker
So we we sort of see this interaction for a while and and and this relationship that they have. And I think it it does sort of start off almost in a Freaky Friday sort of way, in that you have this much more mature character and this much more like immature character, um sharing sort of the same existence. um And the like the objectives of one Uh, is, is slightly different to the other. Now I think, I think in terms of, uh, Sue and, and Elizabeth, they sort of share this goal of wanting to be seen by everyone. And there's this like g narcissistic level to it. But then there's also this like, um, level of like, they want to be on TV or they want to be on screen. And, um,
01:32:58
Speaker
the they share this like idea, but they also like fight over it with each other. um Because so despite being one, um they they see themselves as sort of like separate identities. And and and I think um that is where a lot of this like um conflict in the middle of the film comes from me is this this distinction that gets made um between the like two sort of identities of of Sue and Elizabeth. Really quick, in this middle section, there is a part of a bathroom that has turned or like there's a renovation done in this household. I was going to make a joke about the innermost cave, but okay.
01:33:49
Speaker
Sorry to ruin your joke. I want to ask you there. I feel like that's just the part that I like, she did really well, like way too well. Like that was, that runner job was way too good. Absolutely. But I also think this, this movie has this like weird level of surrealism that where it's nothing's like particularly out of the ordinary, there's little things that are just a bit wrong. Yeah. Like,
01:34:19
Speaker
you know, Sue's ability to do a perfect bathroom run-o while making a hidden room inside of it. It was so good. The fact that everything's very 70s, except for the fact that they all have mobile phones and fancy TVs. That's true, yeah. It's sort of like this mismatch of... It's like the Batman TV show.
01:34:45
Speaker
it To me, it very much felt like they're sort of trying to pull on this like idea that it's culturally an old idea, the the the sort of um way that we treat women in showbiz. We've been stuck in well, even though we've advanced, we're stuck in this like backward mindset. and so like I think there's like really interesting like bits of this because you see like um Sue with the vacuum cleaner. um and It's this really just very retro um i would call it retro vacuum cleaner that looks like it's yeah from the 50s or 60s even. um
01:35:29
Speaker
It just feels very out of place next to you know the smartphones and the super high-res cameras and the um fancy cars and things like that. so yeah um it i so I think it's an interesting sort of like ah dichotomy between the two um of this like yeah this cultural idea or this like cultural standard that's been set versus where people actually are. and I think that is reflected quite well in the Mezzan Seine.
01:36:01
Speaker
um but Moving on, i will I will talk about the approach to the innermost cave and and despite the development of an actual innermost cave, I do think this is um when Elizabeth goes to the cafe and talks to the nurse who gave him the substance by the old man version. It's nice that they um synced up on their own days of when there are
01:36:34
Speaker
on um I have an actual question, another question. If the original older version doesn't switch, is that bad? Or is it really just like you got to switch if you're the younger, the other version? I mean, we don't really see it. We don't know. I don't know. I feel like there's nothing, because they don't have to extract anything from... The reason why it's bad for the younger version to remain in is because if they continue to keep extracting... Probably would kill the younger version, right?
01:37:03
Speaker
Well, if you keep giving it food. No, but like, don't you have to like, stabilize it with the fluid and what all that nonsense is? Only when it's active though. I don't know. I'm just, obviously wasn in that years we don' dont I'm I'm not saying what you're saying is wrong. I'm just saying like, from what I've seen, there's no actual, you could stay as old version as much as you wanted. So yes.
01:37:26
Speaker
but so that That's not actually important. no like No, like, Elizabeth Demi Moore's character doesn't want to be. No, obviously it's an old version. And that's why no they take the substance in the first place. Yeah, I get that. I get that. i was i was I was thinking about, like, from a technical level, I mean, I guess, but there's no one taking this drug who wants to be the odd wants to be the old version. No, you're absolutely right. I just, I was curious.
01:37:53
Speaker
as well. Um, so we have the approach to the innermost cave, which is, which is the, um, after her fingers being like old as I'mified, mummified, oldified, ageified, desiccated, like that's good. That's good description. Um, and she, she, um, meets the, the alternate for the, um,
01:38:19
Speaker
nurse who who introduces her to the substance um as this old man. um who sort of like freaks her out a bit, um which is fair because he kind of just asks a lot of really invasive questions. He does in such like a weird way, like have some decorum, dude. um But that leads us to the ordeal, which I think is the abuse of ah the spinal fluid by Sue.
01:38:54
Speaker
Like when she takes like three months worth. Yeah. When she, when she goes, you're an old hag bitch. Yup. And the steelie is fine. Yummy. Yummy. Yeah. Look, it's actually a pretty spooky moment. That part's pretty spooky because it's like nothing Elizabeth can do. Like I just like losing three months of your life and waking up just technically disfigured is a really scary idea. yeah um But I guess it's also like this commentary on on like the what is wanted by society. as not the like it It doesn't matter if the
01:39:42
Speaker
old person is 50 or 150. Yeah. They're not, they're not not desired. Um, did you get a vibe of like a motherhood thing as well? Like the, the child taking. Yeah, absolutely. Cool. I wasn't just imagining that cool. I just wanted to check. Yeah.
01:40:02
Speaker
um yeah There is a very mother-child relationship between the two of them as well. and yeah but I think that's intentional. with the with the um you know You have the older self and the younger self. and um As a result, you um get that sort of you end up with that sort of dynamic when um you know one is sort of supporting the other, um even when the the overall relationship is incredibly unhealthy. yeah And um I don't know what that says in regards to like,
01:40:41
Speaker
show business, but, um, I think it's, I think that fame is there. I think there's, a I think there's people smarter than me who can talk you about that. It might not even be like specific to show business. It might just be like another thing about like how, um, how women are expected to give everything to their child and like, like they're supposed to give up, they're supposed to give up their life for motherhood and, you know, and then the child kind of just keeps taking and it gives them no chance for like to have a bit of their, their self left. And yeah, yeah. Um, but anyway, I think that's a good, I think that's a good reading, but we, it's quest to get on the hero's
Identity, Transformation, and Dual Journeys
01:41:21
Speaker
quest. and here is Sorry. joy Um, we, this is where I think this movie starts to break some sort of, uh,
01:41:29
Speaker
ideas in terms of traditional story structure, which I like because I like funky things like this. The next step in the hero's journey is is the reward.
01:41:43
Speaker
um Now, the instinct is the reward is... Can I guess? Yeah, no, go. You go. I've been talking a lot. I'm going to assume what the instinct would be would be to say the New Year's Eve special is the reward. That is absolutely what I was going to say. yeah um Stu gets asked to do the New Year's Eve Special. um And as a result, this this sort of leads her um to do all the things ah that we've just previously talked about. And the reward, as it stands in the Heroes Journey specifically, is that we end up on the night before um b the
01:42:26
Speaker
um awards the New Year's Eve night. um And she starts to- New Year's Eve Eve. And she starts to go wrong. She um runs out of the fluid. um She's got a like kind of boring boyfriend guy. He's so boring.
01:42:48
Speaker
um and She is forced to save her life to swap back into Gollum. Sparkle. Sparkle. And she kind of does look like Gollum. And she very much looks like Gollum, yeah. So then we get into what... um The Hero's Journey calls Act 3. I would argue Act 3's probably already started by this point. yeah as we As soon as we get Golem Sparkle, I reckon that that's Act 3. I guess it's the end of Act 2. You wouldn't actually say that maybe this movie shows its acts by when the first one being Elizabeth, the second one being Sue, and the third one being Monstro or Liz or Sue.
01:43:39
Speaker
No, nor because Elizabeth and Sue are too close together and then there's a big chunk and then there's monster Elizabeth the Sue. I don't i don't think they're good indicators of of where the act breaks are. Fair enough. I was just wondering. um But we start with the road back and the road back starts, I think.
01:44:03
Speaker
starts with um Elizabeth's deciding she doesn't like Time to Terminate. She doesn't like have been having two selves. Time to Terminate. So she orders the termination kit and she dresses up like a babushka and goes and collects the kill the kill juice.
01:44:20
Speaker
I just want to point out, there's only two doors that have numbers in that section. Does that that mean there's only two people doing the substance? Okay. So I was talking to the two roommates I went and saw this with and they were like, oh, there was so many doors. I was like, yeah, but only two of them had numbers on them. like Yeah. It's, it's, if you pay attention, it's her and the nurse. That's it. Yeah. That's literally it. Um, which you can even match up the numbers when he drops his card. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's the exact same number. That's like, it's two or three. She's five or three. And he has three or two or two or three. I can't remember which one. Um,
01:44:56
Speaker
But that's like, what a useless product. Seriously. I did one business class and now I'm a business man. So, um, we get, um, uh, the road back where she decides to terminate time to avoid immediately by the resurrection. Cause she would almost terminates because she almost terminates and doesn't and then fucks up.
01:45:23
Speaker
and gives them both consciousness at the same time both consciousness at the same time. And this is where I think the traditional story structure begins to sort of go out the window. This is where the hero's thousand faces... This is where the hero's journey loops back in on itself in a weird, call of monstrous way. 2001 faces. 2001 faces. um Because at this point, you would expect the hero to return with Felixa. But obviously, we don't really have a true hero in this in this ah story. And instead, we have this cool kind of fight scene between an old lady and a jacked up, very fit young person who can absolutely who's absolutely superior in every way to this older lady.
01:46:12
Speaker
And she baits her to death. And it's kind of fucked up when you think about it. It's very horrific. Like there's the part where she's getting her face smashed into the mirror, which is already rough. And then there's the part after that when Margot Quirley is just kicking the crap out of Gollum sparkle. The fact that she sort of escapes and then Margaret Kweli push-kicks her in the body so hard, she flies back and smashes onto the glass coffee table. It's just so excessive and over the top. I love it.
01:46:44
Speaker
i think it's pretty like just juicy and fun. Juicy is the word because ah every single time she starts kicking her, there's a point where like blood starts gushing out the side where she's getting kicked because she's just been like, I assume some stuff's been punctured there through like ribs and it's nasty. It's gnarly. Like look, people who go and see this film go and see cause they enjoy this type of stuff. We're not bad people inherently.
01:47:10
Speaker
um And then, theoretically, we have the return with the elixir, which one could argue is Sue being the only version of her left, except we got more of this movie to go. And frankly, the movie's not really resolved. The plot's not resolved. And that's because I think we actually have another hero's journey inside the hero's journey.
01:47:33
Speaker
I know. And that hero's journey is Sue's journey. Like a hero's day. Well, I mean, I think we've got multiple heroes. So I think the hero's journey goes multiple times. So we're going to, I mean, we just code, uh, let's run this bad boy. But Elizabeth Fafel starts the journey, but we now have Sue's journey. So Sue gets born into the ordinary world. She gets called to adventure, which is the newspaper ad which she sees to replace her son. The refusal of the call ah doesn't really happen because there's no reason for it. Here is your name. It doesn't always fit 100 in.
01:48:10
Speaker
The maintenance mentor is meeting with Dennis Quaid while he smokes a cigarette, real course. And crossing the threshold is is when she goes on the TV for the first time. yeah Doing softcore porn. And then we go...
01:48:34
Speaker
Um, Tess allies and enemies being the relationship that she has with um Elizabeth Sparkle, that bit doesn't change. The approach ah to the universe cave, um, ends up being this approach to the New Year's Eve.
01:48:49
Speaker
um night and the ordeal ends up being this fight with with um with Elizabeth Sparkle in my mind. ah Thoughts?
01:49:00
Speaker
yeah you got you got to in a pretty good ah would the deal maybe be not even like Would the Darkest Cave... Wait, have we done Darkest Cave yet? No, the innermost cave is before the ordeal. So we haven't done it. Would the innermost... Like, I feel like... Because we're we're playing around with a bit. I think there's also like a level of like innermost cave slash ordeal is also when her body's falling apart at the New Year's Eve.
01:49:25
Speaker
All right, you got something for that. you good that's some like i'll let I'll let you continue then. I'll let you continue. So she does the ordeal. She has a fight. Her rewards, she wins, and she kills the bad version of herself, the bad, ugly version of herself that is bad, ugly. According to the film, not to pass. According to the film, but also by that point, she was kind of gross and ugly. I don't like to judge people by the looks. She looked, she was bald.
01:49:55
Speaker
She had a huge hunchback. A boob sag down to her knees. But do your boobs hang low? Do they bubble do it fur? Can you tie them in a knot? Can you tie them in a bow? She totally could. Yeah. They were like long and stringy. Like a cheese. The word back is is her um going to do perform the New Year's Eve um night um and the resurrection is another twist she's not falling apart yeah whose body whose body's being resurrected well well it's not hers baby
01:50:35
Speaker
because she goes back and... Reactivates. Reactivates. Which you're not supposed to do. Which you're not supposed to do, but she's trying to find a new, better version of herself, um which is sort of which is meant to be... It's not meant to be ironic, which is ironic because she is the better version of of of Elizabeth Sparthall. She's trying to like but find an extra better, better version of herself because she ah thinks that the badness in her can be fixed with drugs.
01:51:02
Speaker
I think that's also another theme of the film. It's a big theme. Yeah, drugs fixes things. There's like a new drug right now that's really being pushed. That's the one. That's the one. Yeah, stuff like that. That's what I'm also... Oh, damn, what was I going to say?
01:51:18
Speaker
Oh, oh, or Zen pick has a lot to do with this film. it makes simply Yeah. ah And I think um what really sorry, what really frustrates me, not because the movie did this, but because I always feel like I feel like I should have definitely, definitely clicked that the perfect version was going to use the activation drug on themselves. And for some reason, I just never thought that was going to happen. For some reason, I thought, um,
01:51:43
Speaker
It was going to be Elizabeth was going to do it twice. The, the, the, the, the, not the, uh, I thought you were saying like the big red, this can only be used once discard after use was not enough of a check offs gun. That was a check offs gun, but I thought it was a different gun. Like I thought they were sure. I thought it was going to be like, there was going to be two, um,
01:52:06
Speaker
perfect Elizabeth. Like Elizabeth was going to do it twice on herself. I did not think that it was actually going to be Sue that used it on herself. For some reason, I just did not click into that. And I was very disappointed in myself and to not see that coming because usually I see those types of things happening and I was not happy with my ability. I might've been tired.
01:52:23
Speaker
got You got twisted. You got twisted. It doesn't happen often. Sometimes it happens to me. And you know what? It's nice when it does, but also often it happens when I'm really tired. Unfortunately, this is what happens. wrote she's on phone with about resurrection she resurrects herself as a monster, or is this awesome name? Awesome conglomeration of body mass and gross appendages. And there's like two mouths. This one's like where the boobs are. And like, you can, it's like half the top, top pie as well. And it's like, it's like mouth is drawn back like a chipmunk. Like, yeah. you get these. This part is punctuated a lot with these like, into like, inset flashback clips, which I think is this really fun. I was thinking about I think it's really this very intrusive
01:53:16
Speaker
sort of um way of editing that it feels like bad. It always feels like bad editing. And I don't think it is because it it very much feels like it's sitting there over the top. And that's sort of what those kind of intrusive thoughts feel like. And the fact that she's being told things like pretty girls always smile and um ah like everyone's going to love her forever and all these things that have sort of led her into this position, that they're sort of like become really poignant there. But the elixir she returned, so it obviously is a Monstralizzo suit. And would you believe it? I think Monstralizzo is a suit. I said, Aaron, you're a junior also? Yeah, does that journey include shitting a boob?
01:54:07
Speaker
And shooting a boob. But when there was a monster, all of this is about before news you is is is exists. And then she calls her and she goes and does the New Year's Eve Spectacular, which makes me consider what it was meant to do in New Year's Eve Spectacular. The refusal of the call was because she doesn't look like Sue or Elizabeth, so she glues the picture to her face.
01:54:36
Speaker
There is a monument to the narcissism of Elizabeth Sparkle um that is constantly used to show like where the power kind of is and that type of thing. And eventually it gets ripped apart. and the the The monument being a giant picture of Elizabeth Sparkle herself. I love this. I love this piece of imagery because you have that and then you have that mirrored immediately on the other side of the room with this huge billboard of Sue.
01:55:04
Speaker
a and yeah sorry sir right i no i'm losing a dick um And it has this very like Great Gatsby the Eyes yeah sort of look to it. Where did you remind me of that movie? In the book. Didn't read the book, did I? I only watched the movie.
01:55:24
Speaker
Um, my piercing into, into this blockbusters, into this like apartment and they're like fighting out. But obviously the, the Sue one is much, much bigger than this hugely oversized portrait. Um, um, by the way, so the face is taken from the portrait. The face is the mentor. This is more than I'm getting at the crossing of the threshold.
01:55:46
Speaker
going to the um is going to there and then and like going and walking through the corridor where she's hallucinating all of these people who said she's doing a really good job but actually the corridor is empty um because she is like as a monster it was just to come to appreciate herself sort of but more also she's like a weird ghost Frankenstein monster um yeah but tests our as an enemy that's try and you save sir yeah and go it scar's bad because she can't speak promptly
01:56:17
Speaker
um And then her mask falls off. And then her mask falls off. And her picture glue face falls off. yeah um and Frankly, I think this sort of covers that and then almost the approach to the innermost cave and the ordeal um in which that all happens and then the boob gets pooped and then she starts and then she gets like hit by a lot of people calling her a freak and then she bleeds on everyone.
Film's Climax and Thematic Reinforcement
01:56:44
Speaker
good well She also gets decapitated but then regrows her head. She gets decapitated and regrows her head and then bleeds on everyone. and i this ah don't I can't exactly put my finger on it, but both times I've seen this movie, um I could not stop laughing during that scene. It's funny. I think it's just so, it's so funny. It's so over the top, excessive, like there's absolutely no reason. It feels almost disjointed in the rest of the film. It makes the rest of the films feel subtle. It really does. Because this whole auditorium has people coming in blood.
01:57:28
Speaker
from this like might in impossible manner that like that but that that creature does not have that much blood it's it's it's fantastical and ridiculous and just very very funny in in this sort of like yeah ex ex uh exclusively body horror way, I think it's like it feels unrelated from some of the other themes in that it's just like, this is a gross body and the body horror body monster is bleeding over everyone in a spectacular fashion.
01:58:04
Speaker
So it's a reward for everyone who walked in for a body horror film and they're like, all right, here's your body horror now. You sat through. and that's Yeah. And that is the reward. um Good reward. That is the reward. The reward reward is for the audience. They get to see people get company. But no, the reward is that um she makes it out of the studio alive. I think the road back is her walking back where she trips over and melts clothes up and is resurrected as a weird starfish face.
01:58:33
Speaker
ah And a return to the elixir is the parallel of the opening second shot. It's not the opening shot, it's the opening shot is of an egg. The second shot is of the walk of whole hollywood walk walk of fame star and she goes and dies over the top of the star. um I like how the start of the film has the walk of fame and then someone drops like a hamburger with like a bunch of tomato sauce all over it. And then like at the very end, it looks like that. It looks the same looks the same and it gets cleaned up by. Yeah. yeah I think this this very deliberate, very deliberate. It does a lot of cool visual parallels, which is obviously very intentional given that we're dealing with two characters that are parallels of each other. You have the egg, the eggs, the egg, uh,
01:59:20
Speaker
scene from the start of the movie ah with the egg frying scene. So I'm not a fan of eggs in general. Like I think they're fine, but like, this doesn't make me not want to eat eggs. Eggs on in cinema always grow are really weird and gross. And I, I, I noticed this a second time around as well is when she makes that huge feast of like French culinary, uh, like when she does the fog and stuff, where she does a chicken stuff with the fog line and the bless us and all that. She has one ball, which is a shit load of eggs in it. And there's nothing else but a shit load of eggs in it. And she's delivered herself. Well, she doesn't, but we are,
02:00:07
Speaker
given this like visual information from the start of the film, hu that the egg represents the self. um And then the substance makes more egg. And we are given in this shot, a sort of preview to Monster and Elizabeth in the egg, which is all of these eggs that have been blended together in this unholy matrimony of egg mush that goes everywhere. It's clever film, clever film. I think this, I really, I'm just going to cap this out with, um, I think this film is really clever. I really like the messages it's, it's ah getting across. I think there's a lot to dig into. I think we've sort of like scratch the surface on stuff and we've been talking for like way too long.
02:01:00
Speaker
45 minutes an hour. We made a promise to ourselves that we'd start making it that we our recordings into an hour. I tried a new thing because I was like, yeah, let's do this analysis thing. And I was like, maybe this will be good for the show. And you know what? um I'm glad we did it. It's a good and idea and maybe not great in practice. I think we're just too, we like to go on tangents and that's not good for when we have something like that. But, um, uh, I think with that all said, should we give some spoilers? Let's do that. like I gave the substance for egg eggs. We had five.
02:01:46
Speaker
I gave the substance three versions of myself. Mitchell, Simon, and Monstro Simmel.
02:01:56
Speaker
I want to meet Simon. Just the better version. I don't want to meet Simon, but like I do want to meet Simon. See that's the thing. I'm actually the perfect version. That's how bad Simon is.
02:02:07
Speaker
So do you have to start with Simon? Is that why I don't see you all that often? You have to skip to Simon. One week. You only see me every other week. This is our announcement. This is how we tell the people that we're doing, we're going to fortnightly episode.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
02:02:22
Speaker
Can you imagine? That'd be really clever of us. We're not there. We're sticking around. Much to your chagrin. Our chagrin too. It's a chagrin. Yours and olives.
02:02:38
Speaker
Simon. Simon's. Did you, did you, I just, yeah what one run the, run the. It's freaks me every time. It's spooky. It's a spooky sound. Sound track. Sound track. Very cool. Also. The guy who did it's got a cool name. I don't even know if it's a guy might be a um lady. Um,
02:03:02
Speaker
Rafferty. Rafferty. I'm clicking on the... It's a guy. It's a guy. It's a guy. It's cool. Either way. Um, can you switch some fan mail at me? Fan mail at me? Do we have anything? Um, I can, except we don't have any. So you know what that means. I mean, and even if we did, we'd have it anyway. Yeah, but you know what that means. What does it mean, mate? It's time for...
02:03:30
Speaker
Film buff. I'm trying to stop picking up the mic when I do this. Film buff! Cooling a microphone away doesn't help. I mean it does because the less noise goes into the microphone. Yeah, but like when I do it here, you hear it louder and then when it's further away, it's wild. Just don't shout it. Anyway, I'm gonna ask Mitchell a series of questions. I told him the categories last week so he can't complain about that this time. And he's gonna tell me some answers to the questions. I think he's gonna have a good job in this one because I reckon some of these he's gonna know the answer to. I'm the first one to quote.
02:04:02
Speaker
You said that and I'm going to have like the worst time now and it's going to make me seem so stupid. My name is Inigo Montoya. Oh, okay. Prepare today. Well, I believe the character is named Simon. The character's name is Inigo Montoya and it's from a print The Princess Bride. That is correct.
02:04:23
Speaker
Who plays Rey in Star Wars, Episode 7, The Force Awakens? ah Daisy Ridley. Daisy Ridley is correct. um From what Bond movie is writings on the wall, which won the best original song in 2015? Spectre. Spectre is correct. Who directed the first two Harry Potter movies?
02:04:52
Speaker
Chris Columbus. Chris Columbus is correct. James Bond bungee jumps off which landmark at the start of GoldenEye? It's a dam. Um, if it's a landmark, that means it's a famous dam. Um, so, uh, I only know one famous dam, but I don't think it's that one. Um, it's not Hoover Dam. It's not Hoover Dam. Yeah. Um,
02:05:19
Speaker
No, I only know it's a dam. um I'll give you half a point for that because dam is correct. It's the Contra dam in Switzerland. I wouldn't abandon a name that. I don't even know that name. I don't know that. I don't think I've heard of that before in my life. um And last question. What movie links John David Washington, Christian Bale and Zoe Saldana?
02:05:42
Speaker
Amsterdam? Amsterdam is correct. I think this is your best. That's the best one. That is a solid five and a half out of six. Jesus. I told you you'd do okay in this one. Yeah, you did. i'm Can you give me more of those? I just pull them out at random, so. Yeah, I know. Where do you put the ones you use to make sure you don't reuse them? I just chuck them in a box. Oh.
02:06:07
Speaker
by different boxes of a box of entry. I'm ceremoniously burn them. It'd be kind of funny if you did. It would be kind of funny if I did, but I don't, because you know maybe I want to reuse them one day. Yeah, true, true, true. When you forget the answers to the whole question. But they'll like linger, oh because we did that. We've already done that bit by accident, because we in the Argyle episode and then the episode when we came back,
02:06:34
Speaker
You did the same one and I did better the second time because the answers had to semi-link it in my brain.
02:06:42
Speaker
o Sends me back into the theater. When I saw this, first time around, I saw it at the Astor and it was like it was super loud and it Like watching it again, watch it at Pentridge, it wasn't as loud. And I really think the absolute just, um, your obliteration like that, but like the, the, the almost jump scariness of it, the, like the suddenness of that sound, um, was just so jarring and it was just like, it made everything feel so much more tense. Um,
02:07:25
Speaker
that I just think if you watch that film with the volume up real high, I think it would be the best viewing experience possible. Annoy your neighbors. listen to the Watch the film with a really loud dinger.
02:07:39
Speaker
This has been the Blockbusted Podcast. I've been Mitch. And I've been Max. ah You can ah send us reviews, questions, or warranted hate mail at blockbustedpotty at gmail dot.com. That's potty spelled P-O-D-I-E. You can also find us on Instagram, ah Twitter, and TikTok at the username bbpotty. Excellent. um Send us and send us some stuff. Send us what you think. Let us know whether you think this episode is too long. it We know the answer. It almost definitely is. Absolutely. um This week... Switch bodies with someone. Switch bodies with your sibling. And if you don't have one... um Get one. Make one out of your spine. But also next week, it's... Oh, fuck it. Yeah, sorry.
02:08:34
Speaker
Next week, it's time to Opolis your block in Metropolis and Megalopolis. That's right. We're doing the
02:08:49
Speaker
Switch. Freaky Friday yourself. Do it. Eat a fortune cookie. With you with your sibling. And if you don't have one, just make one. mit Make one. Steal one from the juice. What do you reckon would happen if Margaret Qualey and Demi Moore Freaky Friday'd in the substance?