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Aus Short Trail Champs, Equality in Event Structures, and Tarawera Learnings feat. Sarah Ludowici | Episode 98
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In Episode 98 of Peak Pursuits brought to you by ASICS, Sim and Vlad start out by chatting through Vlad's experience at Tarawera, including what led to his DNF and his lessons for moving forward.
They are then joined by Sarah Ludowici to go through the results of the weekends Australian Short Trail Championships, followed by a discussion on equality and inclusion after event policies rendered Sarah unable to participate in the 30km event she was registered for due to the timing of the race briefing, her need to look after her beautiful 10month old Aurora at that time, and inflexibility on accommodating this need. It sparks a larger discussion around what inclusion and equality looks like, and the effect it can have on groups of people when policies inadvertently disadvantage their ability to compete.
The team then relay some of the results from what was a busy weekend, before previewing next week which is just as busy.
We hope you enjoy!
Results:
- Snowy Mountains Trail Run
- Hut 2 Hut
- Run the Lighthouse
- Takayna Trail Ultra
- ATR Summer Series 4: Cleland National Park
- Sydney Trail Summer Series 2: Manly Dam
***Don’t forget, use code PEAK at https://bix-hydration.myshopify.com/en-au for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits!
Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and your own trail stories, or email at peakpursuitspodcast@gmail.com. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
Follow Vlad: Instagram | Strava
Follow Sim: Instagram | Strava
Follow Sarah: Instagram
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/mood-maze/trendsetter License code: K08PMQ3RATCE215R
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Transcript
Introduction and ASICS Sponsorship
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode is brought to you by ASICS, proud supporters of Aussie trail running and our very own Jess Jason. ASICS are known for putting your feet first and that's nowhere to rely with the new Tribuco Max 5. Built so you can go longer and stay comfortable, you can head to ASICS.com.au to find out more.
Podcast Introduction with Simone Brick and Vlad Ixel
00:00:24
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Episode 98 of the Peak Pursuits Podcast. My name is Simone Brick and today i am joined by Vlad Ixel over in Perth. how are we doing, Vlad?
00:00:36
Speaker
Yeah, not too bad. Just finished my morning session six times five five times six minutes in LT1, going after that double threshold.
00:00:47
Speaker
Is this ah is this a a new edit a new thing we're doing post-Tarawera or... No, I actually started pre TerraWare. I just feel like it needs a bit more time to actually see if it works or not. Well, no, I can see that it's kind of working, um but I just feel like it needs a bit more time. TerraWare, ah we're going to jump into a bit more into that, but that was a different mess. Yeah, fair, yeah fair. Well, yeah, diving straight in with the running chat, but ah coming at everyone this week in this episode, honestly, bit of a mixed bag. um We're hoping, we're hoping if we can get the technology working, which is not on our side today, that we'll have Michael tosson Tosin, Tosin?
00:01:29
Speaker
Oh, damn, I should have asked him this one beforehand, but the are newly crowned Australian national champion on the short trail. from over the weekend on to chat about his race.
Vlad's Tarawera Race Experience and Reflections
00:01:39
Speaker
If not, we'll definitely have him on next week. And also we are going to have the lovely and very well-known to long-term podcast listeners, Sarah Ludoichi on um to give us, to jump in a ah very important chat, let's say, on ah what it's like, gender equality and what it's like at some races in terms of being a new mum. But to get us started, um since, you know, we've already been there a little bit, Tarawera, Vlad.
00:02:08
Speaker
Yeah. 58K, not quite the 100. Tell us about it. No, no. Yeah, I think that obviously going into this race, I think I spent a bit too much time doing road running, running on the treadmill, and that's the combination of the Perth summer and thinking that this was a bit a bit more runnable than what it actually was um so i was testing road running shoes and trying to figure out which road running shoes would work best for this race and in the end ended up getting there and non-stop rain for two days before the race um all the way till the race um we had a window of about three hours
00:02:50
Speaker
of no rain as the race kind of started, um which meant that it was super humid but still really, really wet. um And yeah, started with ah with kind of the lead group and went okay till probably around 50K when we got into some muddy trails and the bottom of my foot just started cramping a bit.
00:03:14
Speaker
At probably around 52, 53K, I was maybe about... a minute or 90 seconds behind second place so i couldn't see Dan Johns anymore but um I could see everybody else meters up the road um so it wasn't that far off but then um yeah my confidence just went down with My foot kind of holding, kind of my toes kind of like holding onto the foot. um And that wasn't a nice feeling stepping on it.
Training Strategies and Adjustments
00:03:44
Speaker
um And yeah, made it to aid station, the first supported aid station and um yeah, called it quits and was feeling pretty down and pretty disappointed because I spent a good six to eight weeks traveling you know, running 16 hours a week, 200k plus weeks.
00:04:04
Speaker
um And yeah, didn't didn't have the chance to even finish the race. But then yeah, made it to the hotel. And first thing I did, went to the bathroom and yeah, Coca-Cola pee, which is not ideal. um And that's when I was actually, ma mood got better. So i was like, At least there was a good thing that I stopped when I stopped because this could have been a lot worse. And um yeah, looking back at it, I was well hydrated before the race. I had 3.2 liters of liquid during the race, even more actually if you consider the gels, but pure um liquid was 3.2 liters, close to about of sodium. many asked?
00:04:45
Speaker
a one thousand one hundred milligrams of sodium how many later Four and a half hours. Yeah, four and a half hours. So not obviously not a high amount of liquid, but the last hour of of those four and a half hours was heavy rain. So like you know it it definitely felt a lot easier running in the rain. um The first, yeah, I guess three and a half hours,
00:05:12
Speaker
It was very humid, and but then the last hour of my race was a lot cooler and a lot easier. And um ah ah passed the North Face Chinese runner and then it started raining and then he passed me. So obviously it was feeling the humidity quite a lot. And then when it got a bit better, he was able to um push in front. And also at that point, um a couple of their leads have dropped, I'm guessing because of the humidity.
00:05:41
Speaker
um the pace wasn't that fast um
Simone's Recovery and Personal Insights
00:05:46
Speaker
but yeah anyway it just meant that i was feeling really bad for like two or three hours post race dnfing and then actually feeling good and lucky that i stopped Because this could have been yeah a lot worse and come like looking back at it.
00:06:02
Speaker
you know I don't think I've done enough trail running, enough downhill work um and yeah muscle damage. And I guess a light case of of of well a very mild case of rhabdo.
00:06:15
Speaker
um Yeah, pretty lucky that I stopped there and was was able to jog the next day, which which was good. Quads were so sore the next two days, which kind of also kind of means that I didn't do enough downhill work because there was only like 1,200 meters of downhill running in the 60K that I've done.
00:06:35
Speaker
Part of that will be the dehydration though. Yeah, possibly. The pain, like the quad pain and the damage you've done there. um Part of that will be the dehydration, which is interesting because, and I had to try and explain this to a runner um that i had to extract that I was helping extract off the course at Hut to Hut on the weekend where he wasn't taking in enough salt um and he wasn't probably not having enough fluid either, but He was found that very strange because this was the first race he'd done heat training for. um And this is where I think sometimes it can be really interesting where like the training you do changes your physiology such that like you've been training through Perth summer, so you might be actually sweating more. Are you losing more sodium than usual? Like is your body as you... keep going through this sport? Is it changing as you go? Cause it's, which it can be. And then it's like, you don't know exactly what you need um anymore. But like for me or with numbers like that, with it being really humid, like I personally, just because I know myself at this point through making similar mistakes, like I know I need a liter to a liter and a half per hour and probably more like 1500 to 2000 milligrams of sodium per hour. in those conditions but I only found that out by messing that up um so is that something that you'd sort of look at in future for really humid races humidity is always what's going to get you
00:07:59
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I think like, um you know, I lived in Hong Kong for quite a while, but that was like eight years ago. So I guess I've lost a lot of my ability of running in the humidity.
00:08:10
Speaker
um You know, we have a very dry summer here in Perth, so it's a different feel. Like it's, I mean, I obviously run a lot when it's 35, 36 degrees, but it's not as hard as sometimes...
00:08:24
Speaker
25 degrees and 100% humidity. um So I think definitely like probably a little bit less effort as well because heart rate was harder higher than where I probably wanted to be, but it felt easier.
00:08:38
Speaker
so like heart rate was pretty much at like, let's say marathon effort, which is too high obviously for a
Downhill Training and Upcoming Buffalo Marathon
00:08:46
Speaker
100K race or eight hour race. um But I was able to like talk like it was...
00:08:51
Speaker
a sustainable effort. So I guess that increased heart rate was because of the humidity and I should have probably taken that into account instead of like going by feel.
00:09:03
Speaker
um But think like... Yeah, and what you described with the feet also, i know that feeling very well and I hate it because I never get cramps anywhere except in my feet and it's under my feet and it will almost always be when you're on slippery terrain and you're dehydrated because you're trying to grip the ground within your shoes constantly. um And honestly, there's no for me, there's no worse cramp.
00:09:28
Speaker
It's just the most shocking feeling, but it doesn't surprise me that you had that going on with the um slipperiness that you were dealing with every single step. um and yeah And it just also feels like your shoe is about three sizes too big for you and it's just such a weird feeling. Like you it's like because you're like trying to crawl your toes all in, um you feel like you've got no power when you push off, um which, yeah, it wasn't a fun feeling and, yeah, going on anything slippery was even slower than what it should have been.
00:09:59
Speaker
um yeah But I think like looking at the whole big picture, um i did Gold Coast Marathon and a few 50K races here in Western Australia. So very runnable races. Then there was World Champs.
00:10:12
Speaker
I went to Italy, did as much elevation as I could, hardly any flat running. Probably overdid it on the elevation, overdid it on the amount of downhill running, got into the World Champs a little bit too tired from the impact that I'm not used to.
00:10:27
Speaker
um After the World Champs, I did a bit more runnable stuff and then going into this race just did way too much runnable stuff. um So I think it's probably finding a bit of a better middle ground of making sure that I do get enough downhill work and specific downhill work and enough trail running but not too much.
00:10:49
Speaker
um So yeah, that was a good lesson. You're certainly not someone that half-asses any of this, hey? Yeah, but I guess I just went too fast.
00:11:00
Speaker
Too much into it. Like, you know, kind of looking at the training that I did before World Champs, it was just too much like downhill running, too much elevation. um And then again, like going into this race, too much flat running, not enough elevation. so Just need that medium, happy medium for like almost all of the races.
00:11:19
Speaker
Yeah, and I think just comes down to something that i I've been doing on an office, the downhill work, like very specific downhill work that I need to get back into because I feel like that's so important for trail running. and Oh, it is. And if don't have that ability of like impact, you just, yeah, it's hard going.
00:11:39
Speaker
So, yeah. Good learning experience. i'm Obviously very disappointed, but yeah, next up will be Buffalo Marathon, which I'm pretty excited about. um Shorter race as well. Such a good run. Yeah. Yeah, much shorter. Yeah. And Buffalo is one of those interesting mixes where there is such a good portion of runnable and like smoother terrain by the time you're on some small road portions, but then also just like the wide fire trail kind of stuff. Um, but it's net downhill, big net downhill. So you better be, you've got to be ready for like that downhill conditioning, which just don't overdo it between now and Buffalo now, like now you're just going to go all in on the downhill. I know it. And then you're going to work up, wind up to Buffalo cooked. So just happy medium.
00:12:27
Speaker
This one, like, yeah. Yeah, mean, I think also like a good learning thing for me was that downhill does wreck your body quite a lot because i put in like five or six weeks at 16 hours of training, of running a week, which, you know, if that was flat running, would probably be pretty close to like,
00:12:48
Speaker
250k but because i was doing a lot of like uphill treadmill um work it wasn't so hard on the body um but yeah no i'm planning just doing like one downhill session a week which good will probably be between yeah five to eight k worth of fairly hard downhill running Good. Well, to be fair, like, and I tested this out a long time ago. You don't even need that much. What I found really good for my downhill conditioning, especially initially, was always short, sharp sprints. And so one of the best downhill conditioning sessions for like that initial conditioning for me was 10 by 400 downhill and I was sending it.
00:13:31
Speaker
um So it wasn't on trail. It was on like non-technic. It was on um footpath for this one with the idea being that I was making myself sore. But it's really not that much actual running. Um,
00:13:42
Speaker
But I would be sore for the next couple of days, which you wanted because then you had to sort of just jog and absorb it and like make your body adapt to that. But I find that for like the faster downhill running, that was really good. What I then needed the longer stuff for was the slower, longer downhill running. And the combo of the two, which I usually would do the session, but I would only do one a fortnight. um Paired with the long runs having the downhills um was usually my way of trying to, anytime I'd gone through a period of injury or whatever it
Skills Beyond Fitness in Trail Running
00:14:14
Speaker
was that had stopped me doing downhills, like right now, that was my combo to get my downhill legs back that always seemed to work. Yeah, yeah I think um yeah probably ah something that a good reminder for our listeners as well if you are doing some trail running, making sure that you are getting some specific work because fitness is fitness till you get to a trail race that needs a bit more specific work. And um it's fine on the uphills, obviously, but...
00:14:45
Speaker
um Yeah, even going a bit slower on the downhills, your legs are just smashed and then the next section just feels harder than what it should be. um Yeah, yeah. See, even on the uphills though, because this is me right now, oh my gosh, I'm like, i my fitness is low and I know my fitness is low and that's fine. But my ability to go uphill because my legs feel so weak compared to normal is even lower than my fitness. And so this is the this is the time where I'm just like, okay, uphill is not all just about fitness because my legs will burn within 30 seconds of heading uphill, not that hard. So, and I just can't do a repeat uphill.
00:15:29
Speaker
um Like, well, I really struggle if it's a rolly course. So there's ups and downs and ups and downs. So yeah, it's a bit like, yes, uphill is fitness when you're actually fit. Yeah.
00:15:40
Speaker
um And your legs are at least conditioned to running. But when your legs are not conditioned uphill, is's just not it. It just doesn't work. And I mean, that's that's what makes um trail running so special, right? That it's not just a pure fitness test like a 10K, 5K marathon. um You know, there's a lot more that goes into it. And yeah, that's why some of us could be semi-successful where we wouldn't be very successful on the flat roads. um But yeah, moving forward towards um towards Buffalo, which should be fun. I've never been to Bright as well. Oh, you're going to love it.
00:16:19
Speaker
Yeah, right that was one of my goals, you know. um Yeah, race more in Australia. um So yeah, that's that's the next one. Yeah, perfect, perfect. I'm, yeah, I'm very keen for Buffalo. Well, I'm very keen to follow along, Buffalo. I won't be there, but very, very keen to follow along. And that is one that we'll probably do a um preview of so that we can, once we find out who's racing, et cetera, et cetera, because it's always got a very good field. And I'm sure there's many people listening that are also excited for Buffalo, which, yay.
00:16:53
Speaker
Um,
National Championships Highlights and Discussion
00:16:54
Speaker
I suppose my update is, look, I'm getting there. It's, it's damn slow, damn, damn, damn slow. Um, but I'm, I'm not fussed about how long this takes. I'm not fussed about it being slow. I'm actually having a really good time in just, I'm very busy with life at the moment. I managed to, uh, managed to spend an entire week building drawers for the back of my four wheel drive so I can camp out of it and installing a 12 volt battery system. So I'm learning all of these new things and I built these drawers which and the floor and the support for the floor from scratch. Like I'm trying to make a four-wheel drive capable drawer system, including the damn like floor trying to bolt it down to the bottom of the car, et cetera, et cetera, that can actually handle. rough forward drive tracks from scratch.
00:17:44
Speaker
ah we're going to sleep Are we going to Vanlife YouTube channel coming to life on this? Maybe. Maybe. i can so i was i was watching a bunch of people building these drawers on YouTube and that was how I was figuring quite a few things out. And then I was like, okay, um then like I could record this, but also i a I have no idea what I'm doing. And the number of times I did something then had to undo it to then redo it a different way was mildly demoralizing. The number of trips to Bunnings was ridiculous. And I'm like, no, then I become one of those silly people that are trying to show how to do something while having zero idea how to do it. So I can show the blooper reel, but no, I do actually have a very decent finished product.
00:18:26
Speaker
There's a few, there's a few things left now, but that was honestly a week where I was, i could have run and I could have run a bit more in a way. Like I was building up quite nicely, but then I really wanted to get my car done before I started uni. And so it was the first time in a long time where like,
00:18:44
Speaker
I had the ability to actually go for a run on some of these days, but I ended up working on my car from like literally 6 a.m. till midnight. I would just kept going on the car it it for like four days straight. um and so And then I still couldn't sleep. There one morning i I finally went to bed at 1 a.m. when I was working on the car and then I was still back up at 5.30 with my brain going if I need to do this and I need to do this. And I just, I went into this mode of just no one could call, no one could talk to me, I was getting this shit done. So anyways, then it was only at the end of that I was like, oh, I could have actually run and I kind of just didn't remember to run.
00:19:23
Speaker
so i don't know, if i was like, oh, that's probably a good thing. I'll take it. um But what it does mean is, yeah, I still am stuck at my little 40k weeks ah feeling now. Now is when I feel proper unfit and I tried to do some slightly longer runs and my heart and stuff could keep going, but my legs will give out at about 13, at this point. And when I say give out, like I sat on the side of a trail and just chilled for a bit before walking up the next hill and finding a downhill to get running again because my legs just, I could not lift my knees. And i was like, okay, maybe this was too long of a run to try and tackle.
00:20:06
Speaker
But it's ah it's always nice to get those little reminders of just how hard this sport is that after a feeling quite easy for quite a while, it's Um, and then I'm also getting all of those very fun, not fun at all, return to run pains where I'm like, just everything hurts, but every week it's a different one. Like my ITB goes and then the other knee goes and then an ankle goes. And I'm just like, yeah, okay. I'm very much commiserating with like all of my, some of my running clients or all the people that I've been trying to get started on running recently. I'm like, nope, I feel your pain right now.
00:20:41
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's something about running that makes it so hard as well. Like if you do have a bit of a break and your break wasn't even that long, um you do go back pretty long. It's been seven months now.
00:20:53
Speaker
How long has it been? It's seven months since I first landed in hospital. like yeah And this is the thing, like it's it's been long time. know Like I've played like a fairly high level junior tennis and stopped playing when I was about 17. If now at 38, I go and hit some tennis balls, like I'm only like 10 or 15%.
00:21:13
Speaker
like the Like I'm just missing a bit of timing. Like the skill is still there um where I feel like running, like you don't run for a few weeks. You go like a few big steps backwards, um which makes it, yeah.
00:21:26
Speaker
pretty frustrating but obviously muscle memory is pretty strong so um yeah like I know it doesn't it doesn't take as long to regain fitness that you've had before like it takes a lot longer to gain it in the first place so I have every faith that like give me a few months and I'll be back somewhere reasonable um like this week my aim is about 55k's so like that's somewhere reasonable in terms of I feel like from that you can you can build quite nicely will I be running a lot of k's very soon no I'm not about to do that to my body. We are going to take this super slow. um
00:22:00
Speaker
But I have a lot of really fun things like planned that are going to help me like build my way back without any pressure and just sort of I'm going to be having fun with it for a bit. Now that I've started uni again, I'm a bit like,
00:22:13
Speaker
scatterbrained when it comes to fitting everything in. So it's really nice that it would be like runs at the moment. The one thing that I'm
Gender Inclusivity Challenges in Trail Running
00:22:21
Speaker
loving is that I can actually just, I have 30 minutes to spare. So I go for my 30 minute jog, I come home and I can just keep doing other things and being human, which from where I was a couple of months ago is already a lot better. So just the fact that I can do that as a little break in my day um is just amazing. So I'm loving my 30-minute runs, just anything longer or harder and I'm suffering. But we'll survive.
00:22:47
Speaker
We will survive. Oh, how's that for timing? Perfect. Awesome. Hello. Joining us, joining us on the podcast right now, um just as me and Vlad were finishing up our updates. Yep, my brain's working, guys, promise. um Is Sarah Ludoichi along with, no.
00:23:08
Speaker
What's little one's name, Sarah? roa ah Aurora. Aurora? Okay. Beautiful. Beautiful. We've got Sarah and Aurora on the line. Now, Sarah, we haven't actually touched on any of the races on the weekend yet.
00:23:23
Speaker
um So if it's all right, we will start with just going through a little bit of what happened at the National Champs in terms of the races. um And then because you talk through your experience once we've gone through the results. That all good?
00:23:37
Speaker
Sounds good. Easy peasy. um Now, Michael was having a bit of technical difficulty. So Michael's now coming on the podcast next week, guys. um We will get him on. um And he is a new name to us. Vlad, did did you know Michael before this?
00:23:54
Speaker
No, and there's not much online as well. looks like he only started running a couple of years ago, so it would be cool to find out a bit more about his journey because he's obviously super talented. He ran 218 in Melbourne. He came second to Toby.
00:24:08
Speaker
mean, he's maybe first or second trail race in two bays, so he's definitely very talented. um And yeah, he's doing Ballarat Marathon, and from their announcement...
00:24:19
Speaker
It says that he's only started running seven years ago, um which is, um yeah, a lot of talent for a 218 marathon in such a short space of time.
00:24:32
Speaker
Yeah, so for reference, um ah yeah, Michael Tosin got the win in the 50K, which was our short course national championships. He's a 14-48 5K by the looks, Vlad said, marathon, like bloody fast. um and in the won by minutes from ah in hours from Mike Carroll hours And then a young guy, young gun, Benjamin Butler was 408.27. And I think from what I saw in the results, he was in the 18 to 19-year-old category, um which at a 50K then coming third at National Champs is pretty epic. But do you do you know Benjamin at all, Sarah, or did you get to meet him?
00:25:21
Speaker
um No, but i I think he must run near where I do because I always get like your laurel wreath has been taken by Benjamin Butler. He must be... Live near me.
00:25:33
Speaker
Love that. Love that. Yeah, Atra has him as a male under 20 and then his results, or he did actually by the looks of it, try and do Grampian Peaks GPT Myla, but was a DNF there unfortunately. But, oh, yeah.
00:25:48
Speaker
Okay, we've definitely heard this name before. Second at Hounslow Classic Marathon last year and fourth at last year's Buffalo Stampede 100K. Also second at last year's Oscars Hut to Hut 100K. So there's 200Ks within a month and a half. And he's won the Human Hovel Ultra. So, wow, that's a resume and a half for an under 20. Yeah.
00:26:13
Speaker
And to add to that now, he's got the bronze medal at the short court short trail should say short course short trail national championships. On the women's side, we it was a ripper run, also winning by around 11 minutes, funnily enough, ah was Demi Caldwell, who ran 4 hours 25.49. Sophie Broome was second in 4 hours 36.32. And Brittany Harridan was third in 4 hours 43.36. Now, this race was super significant for the Asia-Pacific Championships, coming up in November because top two, correct me if I'm wrong, Glad, were automatic qualifiers. So that makes Michael Tosin and Mike Carroll automatic qualifiers. However, Michael, I believe, is outside the top 30 on ITRA. He may have to get inside the top 30 to become eligible. We're unsure on that one.
00:27:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think i think this um there's probably a bit of flexibility on that one because yeah okay we've had members of the Australian team in Korea last year, the year before. um They were outside the top 30, but they were still counted as part of the team and their score was scoring. But it would it like I think...
00:27:33
Speaker
It was a bit weird that they didn't talk about much about them accepting the spot or not. It would have been pretty cool if they would have like, hey, are you going to go or are you not going to go kind of stuff and maybe they could have rolled it down, maybe one spot, kind of like golden ticket style.
00:27:47
Speaker
Yeah, which that's actually very apt in the women's and I would be interested to see if it does come to fruition because Demi Caldwell, she's inside top 30. She's eligible. That's all fine. Sophie Broome is British, so she's not eligible for our Australian team.
00:28:02
Speaker
Um, but then Brittany Harridan, I don't think she would be inside the top 30 at ITRA, but does the spot go down to her as the second Australian would be what I would want to know, I suppose. Um,
00:28:16
Speaker
unsure, but we can, we can seek clarification on that from ORTRA and, um, as the nominations and all things, we'll, we'll, we'll get a bit more info as, uh, more information comes out around all of that.
00:28:29
Speaker
Um, on, oh, did you have anything else on national champs, the race itself, Vlad? We, what were following at all? um no no really um you know obviously i don't think that things went you know as probably as big as what we wanted it to go and um you know probably didn't have the depth that we should have could have had maybe we'll have in the future but um yeah anyway write i write ah right step in the right direction in the way that they are offering some spots for a championships, which is, yeah, not perfect at this point. And, you know, there's a lot of things that could be improved and will be improved, but at least things are moving in the right direction.
00:29:10
Speaker
Yeah, the big tick was those two auto spots up for grabs, which we love to see. um But then in terms of the coverage of it, very lacking. The equality of the coverage, also very lacking.
00:29:25
Speaker
And they're just for a national champs, for you for us as followers of the sport to actually not be able to follow it um and not have like simple things which – you would think when selecting a national champ race would come into account, like live timing or the ability to cover it. cover it Like there's not many entries in this race. It's just, yeah, an interesting and interesting choice. And then just as someone trying to follow it all day and getting very frustrated going, I have no idea what's happening in our national championships. Like this doesn't feel right that this is the case. Like this is annoying. um but Yeah, but also like, you know, we get –
00:30:05
Speaker
You know, the benchline but benchmark is literally what UTMB does right now, Golden Trail, which are pretty big, you know, operators. True, but even within Oz, there's a lot of races that are a lot easier to follow.
00:30:21
Speaker
Yeah, but don't forget, like, they're volunteers. You know, I think, like, you know, I think there's obviously a few things that they could have improved on and should improve on, but the coverage, you know, even Taraware, I had really bad coverage. Oh, did, yeah. This is true. And that's a UTMB big event that's got a golden ticket, so...
00:30:39
Speaker
um yeah I think in that sense, it was probably just not the right race to be. 100% on this got nothing to do with the organizer. you know There's a lot of races in Australia that would not have live tracking and and that's fine. Small operations, you know small companies that do it.
00:30:57
Speaker
um So in that sense, I don't think we should be too harsh on them. No, no. And that harshness for me was not on the race itself for this front because 100%, I love some of those smaller races that you can't follow. The question for me is just, is this the right choice for a national championship race? And that's not the race's fault at all. That has nothing to do with them. This is just a, hey, is this really where we want our national champs or what we want our national champs to be held at? um Because sometimes it's it's almost like it's actually doing a disservice to a race to try and put an event too big on, ah an event on them that's like requires more than the volunteers that they have can actually do well or do properly. yeah um
00:31:40
Speaker
And that's like, there's nothing on them whatsoever. This is is is more just in future. Would I love to see so one of our bigger races that already has a lot of these things in place and is capable of putting on a really good followable like well um national champs that because there's racers that are already doing these these awesome things. um that's That's more my question. of like yeah but No, absolutely.
00:32:05
Speaker
But i think I think we can also, you know, I think that we got Sarah here and we're going to go into maybe some negative things and things that could be improved. But maybe, Sarah, maybe we'll start with some of the positives. um Hopefully there's a couple for you um on race that you did the... 20k in the end you were supposed to do the 30k but maybe just give us a quick rundown of the race atmosphere organization course and then we can go into what happened to you and how things should improve in the future yeah absolutely um yeah i think you know these small low-key trail running events are always i think nice to participate in because i think for most of us runners who have been participating in the sport for a long time
00:32:48
Speaker
it's where it would have begun for all of us. And, you know, a small like low key race that, you know, you get some success at and then you're like wow, like what is this sport and how do I get involved more? And I love it. And it's usually that really strong, like family orientated community experience that draws you in. um and I definitely think there were definitely elements of that. You know, they had distances that were really accessible for a lot of runners, the five, 12,
00:33:12
Speaker
20 30 and 50 so it was really targeting i suppose those like new into the support runners particularly with um it being a relatively nice trail like it wasn't a technical trail the large majority of the run was threadbow valley that third row valley trail which is not too technical it's really flowy and runnable um and i definitely think the race organization was yeah really geared towards um you know and And the safety and all of that was really geared towards particularly new runners who you you know probably don't know um much about how to stay safe in a sport. And, yeah, I guess a lot of race organisers do wear a lot of risk. And, yeah, I think in most of the runs there was like a 20K section ultimately um of Threadbow Valley, which was not – like there was no aid station between. And so they had like um radios along the way and a few sort of added supports.
00:34:07
Speaker
um So I think, yeah, they they that was all really good. I saw lots of families and kids doing the 5 and 12K. think even one man ran over the line with his toddler in like a backpack, which was super impressive. um that They had horses running them up the finish line. um Yeah, lots of, and, you know, based at like Crackenback where, you know, it's really accessible for, um yeah, I guess families to stay and you make use of the facilities with um trampolines and, know,
00:34:37
Speaker
fun stuff for the kids. um Yeah, so I think, you know, I had a friend that was running her first 21K race and so she she did that and she had a great day out and and that was really nice. And my husband also ran the 10K, so it was a nice one that we could all go and do and, um you know, they're relatively beginner, like,
00:34:59
Speaker
They don't identify as runners. Let's just say that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. Beginner friendly courses, which we love because you need them as sort of the way into the sport that we all love. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Well, unfortunately, there was a few things that, as Vlad said, we do hope will improve and we do hope that we can help create some change and just keep going on this conversation of accountability as well as how do we how do we evolve um and move forward as a sport, which
00:35:32
Speaker
You were meant to run the 30K. I have seen a few things online of people saying you're meant to run the national champs. Sarah was never meant to run the national champs. You said it's a wildfire.
00:35:43
Speaker
I know.
00:35:46
Speaker
Sarah was meant to run the 30-kilometre distance. She is only still, what, 10 months post-Aurora? Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, it was, yeah. Yeah, a bit over 10 months post-bub on the way back and um was meant to run the 30K. A quick break in the show to share our key features of the new Astro Tribuco Max 5 that make this a shoe for all trail runners. Now, if you're doing long trail runs, big training blocks, ultras, or just appreciate being comfortable, you'll know this. Looking after your feet is game changing. That's where the Astro Tribuco Max 5 is aiming to help. The big update this time is a completely redesigned engineer mesh upper now using water repellent fibers. So when you hit the wet grass, creek crossings, muddy sections, the idea is simple.
00:36:29
Speaker
Keep the shoe feeling more comfortable and consistent for longer. Underfoot, it's built for protection over the long haul. Flight foam blast plus cushioning, 38.5mm under the heel, the 5mm drop for that fine balance of comfort and trail stability that's so hard to achieve and an aggressive toe spring that's designed to keep you rolling forward when your legs are cooking late in the run.
00:36:47
Speaker
And that Blast Plus midsole is paired with the tried and tested Asics grip outsole with three and a half mil lugs. So you've got plenty of traction for those long days out. If you want to check it out, head to asics.com.au and we'll go deeper with a full review on the Tribuco Max 5 in an upcoming episode. And from here, i suppose, Sarah, I would just love as you to go through your experience um of what happened before the race, like in the lead up, how were feeling? And then um at the race itself, just talk us through everything that happened. And this is, we wanted to get Sarah straight on in the way of going, well,
00:37:23
Speaker
hear it straight from the source as opposed to the wildfire of the internet which can be an interesting place um and to give Sarah a chance to yeah share your voice on what exactly occurred and how it can be improved yeah well thanks thanks very much for having me on the support has been overwhelming to be honest um lots of really great communications from lots of different people and really, really, it's really nice to see that, that there's so many people sort of standing with me on this. And, you know, I want to sort of predispose this conversation that, you know, my intention is and never was to you know, like,
00:38:02
Speaker
ah like you know, the what's the word? Like ruin the reputation of this particular event. I think um that's not my intention at all. My intention is just to highlight how just in systems and um instances women are held back and I think that it's important that the conversation keeps going and I know there's really great space like people doing great work in this space and I think it's about supporting that and and I hope that this is an experience that you know um other race events and even this one in particular can look back and and be like okay well how can we make it all work because you know again safety is extremely important and this and inclusiveness so yeah I will just talk to my experience but um
00:38:48
Speaker
Basically, I guess there was a ah mandatory race briefing at 7 to 7.30 p.m. on the night before the race. And I sort of ah went up and was just sort of told, you have to go to that. And I said, look, I'm breastfeeding my daughter and that's at that time when she goes to bed. And so I'm unable to attend. are there any other options? And the only other option I was provided was to come back ah back, like to be held back on the day. So go to the start line, let everyone go for the 30 and 50 and then do a medical um briefing or safety briefing then. And then I'd be able to start. But they did explicitly say you won't get your time back.
00:39:24
Speaker
And so, you know, that for me wasn't really an option, especially, you know, if I had been doing the short course champs, I wasn't. But if I had been, I would have immediately been ruled out of the Sorry, Aurora is talking a lot. Aren't you beautiful?
00:39:40
Speaker
She wants her voice heard too. um So, yeah, it wasn't it wasn't an option, unfortunately, and I didn't think it would be safe nor enjoyable for me or um for me or um the participants to be on a single track saying, on your right, for like three hours, taking over hundreds of people. So... um I didn't think that was an option. um They did suggest I drop down to the 20 and do that. But again, I think um the broader issue at play here is that there was no other option for me to participate in the registered race at the time.
00:40:13
Speaker
um Safety is important. And um yeah, I think that, you know, I know that they're a small sort of family run business and they don't necessarily have the resources of of big teams, but um I think that the challenge was i I didn't feel welcome and I felt actively like the the next day. So I didn't know what to do. I didn't know whether I should just go and take my bib off and and run it or try and sneak through or, but they all were all options that made me feel really unwelcome and not like I should be there. And so i thought maybe I'll try, go to the start, see if if there's another option.
00:40:52
Speaker
um but again was sort of hit at the at the wall to the event that they're like no you can't participate until you've done the safety briefing and we're only doing that after everyone starts um yeah there was lots of other elements to it all but that's the I guess the gist um did you want me to go into any more specific details or um for the most part Just what other options did you try and ask them if you could have access to that yeah were then denied? um Yeah, i asked whether my husband could participate and, you know, even fill me in um If there was a like an online option that I could participate in, could they do it right there in that moment that I was there?
00:41:36
Speaker
um At the start line when I went the next morning, I asked how long would it take and they said, oh if it's only you, only a few minutes. And I said, well, then let's do it right now so I can start with everyone. There's still 10 minutes before the start.
00:41:46
Speaker
But again, they said, no, you'll wait until everyone goes and then we'll start it. And I sort of, yeah, pushed back as much as I could but he knew he wasn't going to change my mind and I knew i wasn't going to change his mind so the conversations kind of went nowhere.
00:41:59
Speaker
um And i I sort of was like, oh, I guess I'll just go for my own long run then and then – Yeah, Jeff from Orchard reached out and he ah sort of encouraged me to do the 21K. And, um yeah, so I did. That was event my friend was running and so I went to that start line. And I could go to that one because they did the race briefing 15 minutes before the event, so I wasn't going to miss it. um So, yeah, I think there were lots of potential options and I think the unwillingness to to provide a solution for, you know, a relatively...
00:42:34
Speaker
I think reasonable request. um You know, I understand that organizing races, they wear a lot of risk and they've got lots of different people with different demands and that can be really hard to manage.
00:42:47
Speaker
And I think this is just an example of where like so ah system is set up in a way that actively excludes or excluded me in this situation as a breastfeeding mother um from the event and yet no appropriate solution was provided or win-win solution was provided.
00:43:08
Speaker
um Yeah, because I do believe it was suggested to pump instead, which for – is that correct? Yes. Yeah, there were lots of suggestions about going and pumping and being prepared and all this sort of stuff, um going to the pharmacy and getting things. um and i And I think that – um I don't think that it is should be the expectation that the mothers need to bend over backwards to make it work.
00:43:34
Speaker
It should be that, you know, me as a mother is being celebrated in being there and being on the start line and how can we provide that opportunity. And, you know, I know my understanding is there was another mother there that did go and I think their bub was a bit older than mine so I'm not sure if it was typically breastfeeding but they um really struggled. Sorry, she just...
00:43:57
Speaker
Bumped her head. Oh, oh no. um Yeah, and so, you know, I guess in her example it sounded like she went, the baby cried the whole time, then didn't get to sleep, and then therefore was she was kept up the whole night and didn't get a good night's sleep.
00:44:15
Speaker
And I understand there's probably lots of stories of parenting and children like that, but I think it's okay, beautiful. It's all right. if an event wants to be inclusive, they need to to consider these these elements. um and And, you know, yeah. So i think I think there's hopefully some lots of lessons from this and and and change. And I believe that there's been lots of really good conversations so far with Autra and, um you know, other advocates in the sport, um like Kelly's obviously um got connections with pro trail runners and things like that. So I think,
00:44:52
Speaker
There's going to lots of good things here. Yes, yes. we We certainly hope so um because for, I suppose, from outsider perspective of hearing, there's so many questions in my mind of why ah you wouldn't be able to be accommodated um as but in the way of I'm not sure of many other racers or any other racers that don't have the ability to watch the ah race brief remotely. um And that's usually how I will watch. I don't remember being to a race brief in years, I must admit. I've watched every single one online. online and part of that is because on it and this is just another this is me personally but for inaccessibility um I if I'm sitting in a room full of other people trying to listen to a race brief I'm not listening to that I'm not absorbing that thing because my brain doesn't also let me absorb that information in that environment so
00:45:53
Speaker
I will need to be in my own space, quiet headphones on watching it. If you actually want me to absorb that information, that's just me completely separate um scenario, but there's many other ways in which like the most accessible way to make a race brief is to put it out in many different formats to make it so that anyone and everyone has access to that information. And yeah,
00:46:20
Speaker
to have it as the only, only option is to be there in person. A, in my mind, I'm like, that doesn't make sense. What if someone's driving up the morning of the race, they can no longer do that, but that might not be a problem in this, in this race scenario. But yeah, it's, it just baffles me in a lot of ways that it couldn't even be, you were zoomed in by your partner. Like it's, it's that whole piece of feeling like there were many solutions here um and for there not to be one that was found is incredibly unfortunate and sounds just like it's in in particular for me if it was only you and you they you they had the opportunity before the start to do it before the start rather than after the start I just don't understand Like that's the part where my brain goes, please explain. Because telling asking a mother to pump instead of feed her baby is not and not a solution because that's not something that all mothers can do. Babies don't always take bottles. Like I know chatting to i don' Kate Avery, she will not mind me saying this, that Margot does not take a bottle.
00:47:29
Speaker
it's it's It's boob or nothing. So that's not an option. Like to to say that... there's you You have to find other solutions rather than them actually living up to what they've said they want to do and being inclusive.
00:47:44
Speaker
That to me is where I'm like, well, no, your system is discriminating against not just necessarily you as a breastfeeding mother, but anyone that for any reason cannot absorb the information of that race brief in the way that they're presenting it because there's only one option, which yeah is a problem.
00:48:04
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, um yeah, I mean, you're you're obviously a medic at at lots of events and so you know the importance of of the safety. 100%. And we've seen lots of races recently where, yeah, that that information is really valuable and important for the safety. And so, yeah, I think that...
00:48:25
Speaker
it's I guess, yeah, it is it is the responsibility of the organisation but also the individual in participating to make sure they are across how to be safe out there. um and I think this event was a bit more like taking too much responsibility for the safety in the sense of like it was quite micromanaged.
00:48:46
Speaker
um And perhaps for beginners that is important but um supporting, yeah, I don't know, um Yeah, supporting that flexibility is, you know, it is it is a team effort for safety, not just on them. It's also on the individuals. um Yes, there's no need to, like you shouldn't need to, i don't know um another word other than nanny people across the line in terms of them making sure they have the mandatory gear. If you've made all the safety briefing points, if you have made the information available, you're
00:49:19
Speaker
It's even safer to do so via many different avenues so that anyone and everyone has ready access to every piece of information, be it written, recorded, in person. That's where the multiple options actually make it, in my mind, a lot safer as opposed to um the and I will get into a few of the stances of the racist stance of that the in-person safety briefing is the safest way to do it and not virtual um safety briefings which makes me very much question every it works for how many other races um like if it works for so so many other people in much much more remote environments and yes as you said I work in medic I was just at Hutton but
00:50:08
Speaker
um their race brief is beyond important they've got people going across the cross-cut store it's accessible hell the well the race itself is a uh fundraiser for autism so there's many ways that that information can get to everyone and it's that inclusivity that then makes everyone feel welcome and able and prepared and safe um which does sometimes take and it's not even there's a few people i've comments i've seen online saying well the rules are for everyone no one's special And I'm like, no because rules that actively discriminate against a certain subset of people are rules that A, shouldn't be there and b need to be broken like or need to be challenged. Like if there's a rule that is making it so that you cannot access that event, that by definition is making that event not accessible, not inclusive yeah and going against what they are saying they are trying to do.
00:51:07
Speaker
Yeah. And, it you know, i I know that, you know, the the race organisers, like, their interest is the community and they do want to run family-oriented events. And it's just an example where indirectly it it left left me behind um and and made me feel like I was not welcome.
00:51:29
Speaker
But, yeah, as opposed to yeah they weren't being like, how can we exclude, you know, mothers? um But, yeah, so i think I think it's hopefully just an opportunity from here for, you know, all organisations and running events to consider, well, yeah, um ah what what options can we have? Because there will be things like ah we need to be flexible and not so rigid. And, yes, I don't think we need to come up with a solution for every single person that has their own challenge, but, yeah,
00:51:58
Speaker
um yeah, how can we, yeah, open that up and then make it more accessible? um And yeah, I don't know. It's tricky. It's definitely tricky. Like I understand the challenges, um but i I do hope that no one has to feel how how I felt.
00:52:14
Speaker
um So you say it's tricky. It's really not. Like it's not. um And this is just me being the the the voice here of going, hey, hang on. No, it's not.
00:52:25
Speaker
because how many... right. It should have been, it should have been um oh okay, no worries. Like, we'll do a quick, um we'll do your race briefing now or we'll, you know, do something like this. And, um yeah, and and, you know, as a general rule, this is what's going on, but we'll make an exception or whatever because it is important to us that you can participate in the event. Yeah.
00:52:50
Speaker
Yeah. And this is this is the case whether it was you as an elite, whether it was someone, any any other participant, yeah anyone in that room in the same position for any reason whatsoever. um that's This is this is a a blanket thing for inclusivity in a way. um Breastfeeding and pregnancy are something that is technically protected by law for it has to be accommodated for. And that's that's the piece here where it's a bit of the race then asking you to accommodate their strict rules as opposed to the race accommodating your position as a mother in society is for me the point at which this became, no, that's wrong.
00:53:32
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. No, you're you're right. That is, that is the line, you know, cause, um, had you know, there there has been lots of other people saying, you know, yeah, that was really inconvenient. I couldn't go with my children and things like that. And I think that that is very valid, but also, um, the the hard line is yeah. ah Breastfeeding versus not breastfeeding or or whatever, like in that, in that sense. Um,
00:53:55
Speaker
because there was not an option there wasn't an option for me to sub out. Like, ah you know, if she was a little bit older and fully on solids or whatever she was, then I could go. but the simple reality is is I couldn't. um And the fact that I was forced to, like, compromise, well, to choose between, like, the biological needs of my my daughter versus, like, going to a race briefing, obviously we know which one won out. I went and cared my baby.
00:54:22
Speaker
Yes, um yes, of course. And on this, um I will just quickly, I've been sent and Jeff Russell was on the ground as the trail rep for Autra, did not become aware of this until after and was incredibly supportive of Sarah. We love Jeff.
00:54:38
Speaker
Go Jeff. um I have also been sent an official statement from ORTRA, which I'll read out now for clarity on because this was their national champ event. This was something that happened at ah but an event endorsed by them. So the statement from ORTRA is, over the weekend, ORTRA was made aware of an incident on the ortra national short course champion at the ORTRA National Short Course Championships event where a runner was unable to start the 30k race after missing a compulsory race briefing held the evening prior. The athlete athlete advised that she was unable to attend due to breastfeeding her 10-month-old baby and managing her child's bedtime routine.
00:55:16
Speaker
While ORTRA supported the event as our national championships calendar, we and were not involved in the organization of of the race or the enforcement of its rules, which sits solely on the event organizers. We only became aware of this situation after the event had commenced and we were therefore unable to assist at the time.
00:55:33
Speaker
AUTRA unequivocally supports the right of women to breastfeed, including at sporting events. While safety briefings and event requirements are important, they must be administered in a way that is fair, proportionate and respectful of participants' legitimate needs. It is both possible and necessary to uphold safety standards while ensuring policies reflect inclusion, equity and common sense.
00:55:55
Speaker
Looking ahead, AUTRA will develop clearer guidelines for event directors to promote accessibility and inclusion across all sanctioned events. Through our trail subcommittee, we will also establish a focus focus group to ah address barriers faced by women in our sport, including pregnant and postpartum mothers, alongside our ongoing work on adaptive athlete guidelines.
00:56:16
Speaker
Autra remains committed to fostering a welcome, safe and inclusive environment for all runners and to working with race directors to ensure events within our community align with our shared values of fairness, safety and respect.
00:56:28
Speaker
Signed, the Autra Management Committee. Love that by them. um in terms of having that position but then also the provision of guidelines in future to actually create that ongoing change moving forward um for this piece of inclusivity, gender equality um and making sure that there are these, yeah, as ah as ah as they said, guidelines for events to follow on this front. Yeah.
00:56:56
Speaker
Yeah. Thoughts on that, Sarah? I think you that you wouldn't have seen or heard that because I read it just beforehand too. Oh, good. Yeah. No, look, I think it's great. I think that the really positive thing to come from this is there's been, I have so many people reach out to me, Autra as well, that I feel like I'm you know, really gone out of their way, well, not out of the way, but doing what they should do um to um make sure that this doesn't happen again. And i I really do hope that this means that, you know, its Australian trail running events, um this doesn't happen. um and i And I, yeah, I really am.
00:57:32
Speaker
great to see that there will be some things come from this including the focus groups I know there's lots of other people already doing fantastic things in this space like the she runners and the internet the she runs and all that stuff and so I think more more of that needs to happen and um you know I think yeah I think it's about celebrating you know we're all like people are all unique and we all have different needs. And, yeah, the the having a baby is really this sort of inflection point, in my experience anyway, where where you really start to see how the gender inequality sort of sits and and exists in very in very subtle ways. And it's often like hidden. um
00:58:12
Speaker
I mean, sometimes it's not subtle, um but the the times when it is subtle, you know, Those are the things that we need to to highlight and and talk about and then and then change.
00:58:25
Speaker
And so I think, yeah, it is important that people do speak out if it does happen so that, yeah, change happens. 100%. And it's it's not about bending over yourself to sort of just do the whole it's not always fair thing and that's okay it's because it's not okay. um And also i do love the fact that you won that Yeah. And came back.
00:58:49
Speaker
Overall winner too. We had the women go first, second and third overall. Sarah just beat out Jess by five seconds in a sprint finish. She had a chance to share to you her story.
00:59:00
Speaker
she had a She had a good stack. Yeah. That ah might have put her a little bit behind. But, hey, no, win's a win. You won that race, my woman. i felt really bad. was like, oh, I'm so sorry. Like, I got you when you're down. I mean, she was up standing already. I didn't just, like, run past her while she was face planted on the floor. I was like, oh like, i yeah, she got up and started running. Like, just breathe. You're all good. And then i think it obviously took the wind out of her a little bit. Yeah.
00:59:25
Speaker
yeah ah yeah You could see in the video she was she was laughing across the line. It was great. And also ah i i love the piece that you then went and won Like it it works. It works. I'm like, Jess, you took one for the team so that that Sarah could just go absolute beast this 21K. Yeah. I definitely, the more I ran, that like the angrier I got and I was just like, just got into a really good rhythm and yeah like just closed the gap between Jess and then she looked back she was like, oh, shit.
00:59:54
Speaker
And then like, yeah. um It was a battle. I was dying. yeah Were you there for the presentations? Did they do the presentations for the 21K?
01:00:05
Speaker
um I didn't stay. It was at 4 o'clock. But apparently um my name wasn't there anyway because my rego had to change around and they obviously had missed that. So um I was. I think I spent that 20K thinking what my my but you know what I would say if I got the mic. But anyway, didn't it happen. Yeah. Oh, well, yes, I do believe it at the presentations. Unfortunately, Jess was called out it as the winner, but we can clarify that Sarah was the winner. And I believe these those results have been rectified since. Oh, that's good.
01:00:36
Speaker
How it's not pretty obvious who comes across the line first is beyond me, but it's Sarah got the win. We love that. Um, But yes, I think to probably to try and close out this piece, um and which we we actually, I'm never going to close out this piece. This is a piece on on equality and inclusivity, especially when it comes to women, but to for all when it comes to trail. um I think I love the fact of how inclusive this sport is. Um, but yeah, moving forward, Sarah, uh, I suppose from where you are now as a new mother, re-entering the sport, building back into things like what are things that you wish race directors knew? What are things that you wish what want to see change in future?
01:01:24
Speaker
And like, where's this, where do you want to see this conversation heading? Wow. Um, that's a big question. I know. Um, Oh, look, I mean, and to round it out. um Oh, look, I think so far to date, my experience has been fantastic. I think there's lots of people that really do get behind um me as a, as an athlete returning to the sport. um i i guess I would, I would like to see that, you know, in the future when these opportunities present themselves, where a woman feels like she's being held back because of
01:01:57
Speaker
um that that that's not an issue and there can be some flexibility and some support and, um you know, I think we need to be reminded that ah equality isn't equivalence. And so um i think, you know, I'd love to see that, um ah yeah, I'd love to see that, um yeah, we can expect to be celebrated and and to be included um Yeah, I don't have anything tangible off the top of my head. There's lots of things I think I'm going to think about from here and and make sure that –
01:02:31
Speaker
Yeah, change can happen. i i think i think, to be honest, like just ensuring that people like stop and reflect and think about, you know, and me too for my own, you know, I have my own privilege and my own bias in in lots of different other settings, not just, um you know, gender. But I think just acknowledging, though like stopping and pausing and reflecting and like how might this land for them? how might um How might this experience be for them as opposed to justifying how or why it's been done thinking okay well what what could it be in this person's situation um and yeah using that as a tool to be like okay what do we need to do moving from here um so yeah I guess that's just the main thing is that the reflection the reflection piece which is I think a great life tool in in every setting
01:03:19
Speaker
100%. It really is. It's very hard to do ah in the moment at times. yeah um In the moment can be very hard to do, but reflection is always where, where I suppose that's where the change and the growth ah tends to happen um in the aftermath of these things. And I, for one, certainly hope to see hard and fast policies such as this one change. That would be what I would want to see coming out of this is the change the inclusivity and accommodation
01:03:50
Speaker
um pace actually being implemented um within policy changes. Oh, yes, absolutely. I want that too. Yeah. um And i I look forward to seeing these ultra guidelines that then races can follow. Although I will say by and large, I like I know so many race directors. I've been at that many events and um shout out to quite a number of them doing incredible things in this space. Kunani down at in Tassie, GSER for having women of GSER.
01:04:19
Speaker
There's a bunch more. There's a lot more that are doing a lot of really cool things in this space and I think do become examples for events of all sizes on how this inclusivity piece um and equality piece actually looks.
01:04:34
Speaker
And I think one of the more silent examples is that, yeah, I think a lot of those races are doing really great things like ensuring, you know, there's sanitary items and and toilets available and things like that, which I think are really important. But I think one of the things that's just really interesting, it's sometimes it's all the subtle things. Like, and, um you know, just as just as an example here, um you know, I essentially have been um either pregnant or postpartum for like the entirety of my um ah like contract, ah like sponsorships and things. And, you know, there's definitely a fear that like I haven't put performances on the table because I have not been able to. And there's definitely a fear around like, you know, i have this window of opportunity where I need to perform and if I want to have any like, you know, um,
01:05:23
Speaker
opportunity to negotiate something good. And it's, and I find that's really hard. And I, and I want to say, you know, I've been very supportive. So I don't think any, you know, ah I've been very supportive throughout my pregnancy. So it hasn't been, hasn't been actually been an issue, but I think, um,
01:05:40
Speaker
Yeah, it just means like when I go to negotiate, like I actually don't have much weight there because I haven't raced and whether I should or shouldn't, I don't know. But I think, you know, whereas other people or people who aren't in that situation don't have that opportunity. So, yeah, I think that's that's just a subtle example. And again, i don't think right or wrong either way, but it's just considering, oh, okay, well, how, like, it's like that fear that's sort of just underlying all of the practical things, you know? i don't know if that makes sense. Yeah.
01:06:09
Speaker
No, it does. No, it does. And actually shout out to ASICS because we love ASICS for the fact that A, they're supporting you as a new mum. They're supporting Kate as a new mum. They've got our very own Jess and people would have heard throughout this episode that ASICS is supporting this episode.
01:06:24
Speaker
So right yeah yeah yeah yeah, yeah, no asics ah ASICS are doing great things in this space. Um, and yeah, Sarah is one of the ASICS athletes on the team being supported um as a new mother alongside Kate within that team. So there's that example of support where it's meant to be and the way it's meant to be. um And I think this is forever going to be a ah growing piece.
01:06:49
Speaker
I think for me, just what happened to you on the weekend feels like something that you wouldn't expect at this point in where the conversation has been and where the awareness lies. And that's why it has sparked such...
01:07:05
Speaker
outrage and disbelief in the fact of, hey, we didn't think we were 15 years ago still stuck in that spot um in many different aspects of what happened here. So that's where it's a bit like using these backward steps as new launching points for forward progress um is always going to be the only way to make good out of what was a pretty horrible experience for yourself, Sarah.
01:07:34
Speaker
um And that's what we're trying to do here by sharing your voice experience. We certainly invite anyone and everyone ah listening to the podcast to share their experiences. We can keep this conversation going. um i know you in your post called out for anyone that wants to, to share their experience. We we are certainly much stronger together um in creating this change and, holding ah those that are in positions of power or putting on races accountable for practicing what they say they're trying to do in a way that is actually works um and actually does include everyone. And yeah, I think.
01:08:14
Speaker
ah Thank you. Thank you to Peak Pursuits for, you know, having the conversation. Yeah, hopefully. I think, well, to be fair, James has, in typical James style. I absolutely love how much research this man puts into these things. Vlad's chuckling away because we have a research paper and we have two articles that I'm going to – ah link in the show but we've already managed to chat for quite a while on this so I'm going to leave the the actual chatting through those articles of and this is where where we're at with um equality within trail running and ultra space um where we're currently sitting where we want the where we want this to go um so there's an i run far article there's the trail sisters standards of approval um the and then this this um
01:09:03
Speaker
the research article which is actually called Getting Chicked or You've Been Chicked I think it's what was what the research article is called which is uh I know such a such an awesome title um but yeah there will we will continue this conversation um into the future of the the some of these questions that James has given us um because I think It certainly, ah oh, actually, yeah, I think a couple of these pieces are certainly um interesting from James of of what's the difference between ignorance, blindness and discrimination? um
01:09:39
Speaker
Like where where do we where do we draw the line between those? And I suppose his questions on his in his mind, where one of the ones he's put forward is if this was a travel delay for another athlete, would it be handled differently?
01:09:51
Speaker
Say car troubles, et cetera, et cetera, couldn't get there. are they but Are they being accommodated? Are they like, there's so many different circumstances where we have the question of, well, how are you actually including everyone if this is the only, only option?
01:10:06
Speaker
um Because, By definition, having one option is not inclusive. But, yeah, I think on the whole, to be continued, Sarah, thank you very much for coming on. Thank you for having me. If we get any follow-up questions, remarks, anything, I will shoot them through to you. Listeners, if you want Sarah on again, by all means, let us know.
01:10:28
Speaker
ah We'll bring her on again and we can ask her a whole bunch of questions or um more story time with Sarah. Let's do it. um We always love having you on here at Peak Pursuits. So thank you. And it's lovely to, I haven't met Aurora yet, um but it's lovely to virtually get to see the beautiful little one. um And what event are we going to see you at next, actually, before you go?
01:10:51
Speaker
Buffalo 100. I'm really excited. Yep. It's going to be my first one in two years now. That's, you know, last one, u approximately UTA way back when. So, um yeah, like you you get out for a while with pregnancy. So I'm looking forward to um getting out for 100 and, yeah, managing all the things that you have to manage for 100 but also with ah with a bubble on board.
01:11:18
Speaker
Yeah. Are we going to get there ah the the photos of you breastfeeding at aid stations like we've gone viral for some other races? Yeah, look, ah look, it's I don't know. Yeah, um hopefully I can figure out a solution. But um I've still got a couple like more months to get there.
01:11:38
Speaker
Yeah. yes Yeah. Wow. You've got one month, but yeah. Six weeks. yeah okay don't Yeah. Okay. know um You got this. You got this. Well, I won't be there. Vlad will be there though. So you'll see quite a number of the team in person and course no doubt we'll probably get you on after that to talk through it all and how it was doing a hundred K with an 11 month old by that point or close to a year. We should be close to a year by then. Yeah. It'll be, should be like,
01:12:04
Speaker
Yeah, 11 and a half-ish months. Nice. yeah Nice. Getting close. Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you. We're about to run through just a bunch of more results from the weekend. Feel free to stick around or you can jump off. I'll jump off. but Thanks, team. Bye.
01:12:19
Speaker
Awesome. Okay. So Sarah has ah departed to go look after baby Aurora, but we have a couple of other little pieces of news from the week. ah One being that the 100-mile women's world record was broken at the jackpot 100-mile in the US. ah It was run by Ashley Paulson.
01:12:39
Speaker
February 20, so four days ago, she ran 12 hours 19.34 to ah take, I think, so a bit more than 17 minutes off, 17 and a half minutes off the world record.
01:12:52
Speaker
um ah wow. And it was running around a 1.19-mile loop. And that's 436 per K, 436 minutes per a K, which is incredibly quick for 100 miles, 160
01:13:11
Speaker
100 mile around a less than 2K loop. Damn. That's wild. That's very quick. and So she also, the Ashley Paulson also holds the women's course record at the Badwater 135 mile. So she's no newbie to holding records on that front. And then i just off the I Run Fire article looking at it, she's ah won the 2025 Zion 100 course.
01:13:37
Speaker
another one in 2023 across the year's 100 mile and then the 9th at the 2024 Cocodona 250. that's bit of her...
01:13:45
Speaker
Resume resume may there. But yeah, the course was certified. So the record, um it still has to go through ratification, I believe, but it was a certified course with all the timings and everything. So it should be ratified, you would think.
01:13:59
Speaker
But yeah, that's wildly fast. I can't fathom doing that. But anyways, ah onto a completely, completely different ah speed.
01:14:11
Speaker
because Lara Hamilton, who we had on very recently, did her events, has competed in her events at the Olympics, including the sprint, which I think was about a three-minute effort by the looks of it, and the mixed relay. um So Lara came 18th overall in the um sprint, in the individual sprint. Phil Bellingham, actually, I think he came Fifth in the semi?
01:14:41
Speaker
Don't quote me on that. But he got to the semifinal, um did incredibly well. um And they together came 12th in the mixed relay and it looked brutal. Poor Lara, I do believe, had some technical boot issues. She had broken boots actually in her sprint individual, um which I cannot imagine the stress of lining up at your first Olympics with your boots being broken.
01:15:07
Speaker
But... Yep. Just a testament to how incredible Lara is getting through that one. And then, yeah, on the, have you watched any of this, Vlad? I watched Lara's sprint, which looked pretty cool. Like it's different, you know, it's definitely a good viewing for sure. Obviously, I've never skied in my life, never been on on a pair of skis, but um it was pretty entertaining. Like I think, obviously, i don't know much about skimo. know a lot of people do it in the trail running world, but um It was definitely fun to watch. I mean, a lot of changeovers and different skiing uphill.
01:15:43
Speaker
Yeah, and there's still a lot of people going on about, in in a lot of ways, about how this it's not SkiMo, of the like the short distance, the it's not in the mountains, the mountains missing, blah, blah, blah. I agree, like in which, of course...
01:15:56
Speaker
if As someone in the sport, that probably would be the stance um and it's different coming from someone outside the sport. But as someone outside the sport, getting to watch all of the different techniques they have to use in terms of putting the putting the skis in their pack, on on their back and um the skins on and off and all those sorts of things, getting to watch all that in such a short,
01:16:17
Speaker
succession and it all feeling so time critical so they have to do all of those techniques incredibly well was really cool viewing it was like yeah yeah i mean i think it it created like a new segment of the sport i don't think it will change the sport hopefully not um yeah but you know from the outside again very very far away from the world of schema it looked pretty cool and i actually watched the whole thing Yeah, yeah. And I feel like it's a quick way to learn all of the different things they do in Scemo. Like obviously they normally do them all for a lot longer, but it was certainly a quick way to learn it all um as an outsider. But yes, definitely speaking as outsiders here.
01:16:54
Speaker
But yes, congratulations, Lara, if you're listening and we adore you here at Peak Pursuits. And yeah, I hope you are basking in the feeling of having done your first Olympics because damn, that that is very, very cool.
01:17:09
Speaker
And she'd be the first Aussie trail runner to have made it to an Olympics, I would say, in a lot of ways. So very cool. um Now on to results. We've already been through the Snowy Mountains trail run with the national champs. Other ones, just quickly though, I don't think we mentioned Emily Brickacek actually took the overall win in the in two hours, 47 in the Um, which she's, uh, um, I've no, the last time I reckon I saw Emily Brickacek one was at Zadapak run was at Zadapak 10. Wow. Um, so it's cool to see her on the trails. Um, she's definitely a very good 10 K road runner from this would have been a few years ago now though. So,
01:17:56
Speaker
Cool seeing a name I know. um Also on the weekend though, we had run the lighthouse at Wilson's Prom in the 75K. It was won by Zach Shippam in 8 hours 25, Lisa Palmer on the winner women's side in 10 hours 51. In the marathon, Donna Urquhart won the women's in 9 hours 19, Tommy Patel in 5 hours 50 for the marathon. And in the 21K, our lovely Kate Avery won in one hour 44.34 despite taking a wrong turn and adding on an extra kilometre. um And that was an overall win.
01:18:33
Speaker
So she won, yeah, out of men and women. And the men's winner was Matt McAvoy in one hour 51.28.
01:18:41
Speaker
Then Hut to Hut, which is actually where I was, um which is always such an incredible event. um I adore Hut to Hut. Oscars 100, then they've got the Archie 50K, Lala 23, and the bella ten k ah The hundred k was won by Tom Dade in Hours Second was Chris McAuliffe in 14 hours, 27 on the men's side, which I was at an aid station with about 15 Ks to go.
01:19:08
Speaker
And Chris would have come through in he came through in third and he came through a lot further back Then the seven minutes that separated them by the finish line. So Chris was making up some ground, but just not quite enough. Third was Quinn Sheehan in 14 hours 41. On the women's side, it was a great run by Nicole Patton to win 16 hours 33.
01:19:31
Speaker
Jordan Mackie Richards was 17 hours and 7 for second and Katie Lovess 18 hours 42 for third. Just quickly the winners of the Archie 50k were Chris Wilder on the men's side in 5 hours 33 and Brooke Thomas on the women's in 6 hours 46. Lala 23, which was a brand new race this year, actually was an epic race. We had some real good competition going on there. Dave Bailey was first to the bottom of the descent because this was one that went 23K with think 1,300 or 1,200 down then up. Wow. So a beast of a run. And, yeah, they had to run a really long way down into the valley then climb a thousand and something meters in 7k to get to the summit of Mount Buller. So a absolute brute, but Dave Bailey was the first to the bottom, but he did in the end get gotten by Ian Best. So Ian Best got the win in two hours, 20, Dave Bailey second in two hours, 24 and third male was Daniel Armstrong in two hours, 40. On the women's side, this was super close and super competitive. Natalie Rooks held on for the win. She was the first to the bottom and had a bit of a gap, but she held on for the win in 2 hours 37.34 from Trish McKibben 2 hours 38.41, so just over minute back.
01:20:50
Speaker
in second in two hours thirty eight forty one so just over a minute back And then only a little over a minute back again was Kelly Angel in third in two hours 40. And even back to um fourth with Jessica Short, who's another incredible runner, two hours 43. So two and a half minutes there. um On the women's side, that was definitely the race of the weekend. for watching it. It was just so close the whole way um and then battling it out. And then Trish McKibben also held on just for that by 30 seconds to win the Bella 10K over Kelly Angel and Robbie Savage won the 10K over Dave Bailey again by about a minute.
01:21:29
Speaker
So Some really cool racing going on there. um And just then in South Australia, the Adelaide Trail Runner Summer Series was won by Camilo Chavez in 1 hour 32 and Margot McIntosh on the women's side in 1 hour 37. Yeah.
Recent Race Results and Upcoming Events
01:21:50
Speaker
The Sydney Trail Runner Summyseries in Manly Dam, Dave Byrne got the win in the 20K in an hour 31 and Annika Wren in an hour 57 on the women's side. And last but not least, Takana? Takana?
01:22:04
Speaker
Oh, my God. I don't know how to pronounce this, Vlad. You shouldn't be asking me. I know, but it only just occurred to me how many times I have read this word and never thought about how to pronounce it.
01:22:16
Speaker
Takaina Trail is what I'm going to say. Might be Takaina Trail. Unsure. But this is one that's the Bob Brown Foundation fundraiser. It looks incredible. So in the 22, it won by... Outright, actually, on the women's side by Rhiannon Wild in 2002 and on the men's side, Blair Overton 2007. In the 62, it was one on the women's side Maluka Bancroft 7 hours 35 Nick Langan 7 hours 17. And they also had...
01:22:52
Speaker
and they also had They also included a non-binary category, I believe. So, Safen Liedermann in the 22 and Gnomes Mesmer in the 62.
01:23:02
Speaker
Got those ones, which is really cool to see that ah being included. Wow, that was a lot of results. um That was a busy weekend. I did not even realize half those races were going on. By the time you're like up a mountain at one race, you you just end up in that bubble where you forget that any other race exists for that period of time. a bit of fun, but it doesn't stop because next weekend we have Mount Bogong Conquestathon.
01:23:30
Speaker
um Which has a pretty cool battle on the men's side with Ian Best against Hayden Barnett against Eddie Franke, who apparently is the of young local that's very fast fast uphill and his brother Alec was at the World Mountain Trail Run champ, which I recognise the surname. Yeah. Well done, James, on that research. And then also Baw Snow Gum Run in Vic, Southeast Queensland Trail Run Series, ah Round 7. Whale Rock Trail Run in New South Wales, Perth Trail Summer Series, the Chitty Chitty Run Run. I always love the name of this Vlad. Have you done it before? Because you just, I want to. Yeah, probably five or six years ago. Yeah, they definitely come up with some cool names in the Perth Trail Series.
01:24:16
Speaker
Every time I see it, it just makes me laugh, which makes me then want to do the run because you'd be running along going, I'm doing the chitty chitty run run. Be stuck in my head the whole time. Belair Marathon is on South Australia and a massive one of Gone Nuts is down in Tassie, which is another event I would love to do one year. It looks incredible.
Personal Training Plans and Closing Remarks
01:24:36
Speaker
But what have you got coming up, Vlad? Anything special? um We'll be at the chitty chitty run run with Bix, but um otherwise, no, normal training week for me. Nice. We love a good normal training week.
01:24:51
Speaker
And ah in many ways, similar for me for once, I'm actually, this is my first week actually, which course for celebration where I have sat down yesterday on the Monday and actually written a plan for the week in terms of training. And that is the first time I have had a plan for training in at least six months.
01:25:10
Speaker
So that being said, i sat down on Monday to write the plan and the plan's already been pivoted because I was going to go to Glasgow tomorrow and ended up there today to be with Kate. But that's all good. I have a plan and I will stick to the plan from here on out.
01:25:25
Speaker
Maybe, probably not actually, let's be honest. But anyways, thank you everyone for listening. to what has been episode 98 of the Peak Pursuits podcast.
01:25:37
Speaker
We hope you enjoyed. If you have any thoughts you want to add to the conversation in any way, shape or form, feel free to reach out on Instagram or our email via the links in the show notes.
01:25:51
Speaker
But for now, that has been the episode and thank you for listening. We will speak to you next week. See you guys. Before you go, thanks again to ASICS for supporting the show. We're really excited to partner with them for the upcoming episodes. If you want to look after your feet on long trail days, check out the Tribuco Max 5.
01:26:09
Speaker
The redesigned upper, the Max cushioning built for comfort. Head over to asics.com.au and