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Extended Stewniverse: Daniel Kitson's Pith
174 Plays1 day ago
Melancholy. Hopeful. Whimsical. Poetic. Bearded. These are just some of the accusatory adjectives that have been laid at the feet of the Yorkshire born overlord of theatrical stand-up, Daniel Kitson. To understand the sheer breadth of his influence upon the comedy scene in the UK and beyond would take more words than the count here allows, so you'll have to settle for me telling you that this man is a pretty big fucking deal, actually. And all the better for the casual comedy punter having not got the foggiest idea who he is.
To understand the man, you have to look at his work, so this episode sees Dan and Joe take a road trip to Manchester to witness a work in progress attempt at Pith, a melancholy, hopeful, whimsical, poetic, and still quite beardy mix of stand-up and storytelling. The show demonstrates exactly why Daniel Kitson is so revered by his peers, as well as critics and comedy nerds, and other assorted undesireable folk that you wouldn't want to take home to Mother.
Dan and Joe loved it so much that they wanted an excuse to talk about it on the pod, and figured that Stew proclaiming Daniel Kitson to be "all comedians' favourite comedian" is good enough reason to shoehorn it in.
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Transcript
Daniel Kitson's Influence on Stuart Lee
00:00:35
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Across the Stewniverse podcast, the world's only podcast about the comedian Stuart Lee. Although, in this, in the case of this particular episode, we're actually going to be talking about Daniel Kitson. Now, for those of you familiar with Stu and his work, which I assume is everybody who's listening to this because why the f***ing if you weren't you will know that Kitson is sort of not only like one of the most revered comedians in this country um and possibly globally to be honest um he's a massive influence on Stu which is why I've decided we're going to devote an entire episode to him because I think without
00:01:22
Speaker
Daniel Kitson and his work we sort of wouldn't have the modern incarnation of of Stuart Lee that we've got now because I think from round about the time when Stu decided to kind of pack it in 2000 ish till about 2004 Kitson was you know coming on coming on to the scene growing in stature and kind of influence I think after winning the Edinburgh award I think 2001-2002 um um and kind of became a bit of an influence on Stuart's return to stand
Work-in-Progress Show 'Pith'
00:01:53
Speaker
up. So I'm kind of dead keen to dig into Daniel Kitson but really the reason that I want to do an episode on him or the reason we've decided to do this episode on him is because Joe and I had the opportunity to see his latest show Pith, the work in progress version of Pith.
00:02:10
Speaker
um and that's not just me trying to say the word piss with a lisp it's actually the word pith as in you know from an orange for some weird reason I'm not entirely sure why given the the makeup of the show and kind of what it was about it didn't really relate to the title or if it did I didn't get it but then again I am a bit thick so Joe and I got a chance to go and see this at the Royal ah royal opera house in Manchester and it's in the round sort of Kitson's preferred kind of method of performance these days it seems it's very theatrical and very narrative driven as is Daniel Kitson's kind of purview really um but also massively sort of heavy stand-up sections as well it was kind of intercut almost between between this narrative and kind of little stand-up style
00:03:07
Speaker
anecdotes and asides that really to be honest with you I was blown away and I know Joe was as well um so much so that we couldn't wait to kind of talk about it but since then it's been a couple of weeks for me to get my ass in gear and decide to a record an intro and be edit this episode but around about the time that we went to see this we were just absolutely buzzing with excitement we could not wait to to talk to each other about it and kind of pick through it really so what you're about to hear really is just two besotted nerds um talking about why they love something really you know we we tried to analyze it but you know we were just so excited to to kind of talk about it and gush about it and
00:03:58
Speaker
really this is like the pure diluted version of what I originally wanted this podcast to be you know yeah let's pick it apart but ultimately you know we do this because we love the thing which I'm sure is a bit sentimental for a Stuart Lee podcast but do you know what that's the Daniel Kitson influence he is a sentimental old soul um he you know we we tried to kind of get into What makes you at least you at Lee and what makes Daniel kits and Daniel kits and and where the crossover is and kind of whatever and we did kind of I think we did come up with a bit of a I Don't know what's the word?
Kitson as Lee's Favorite Comedian
00:04:40
Speaker
ah bit of a summation of the two characters in the end to to try and get to the heart of what it is that they're actually doing and so hopefully that's something that you'll enjoy listening to that but yeah here without further ado is me and Joe talking about going to see Pith by Daniel Kitson
00:05:09
Speaker
Because, right, obviously, we went to see Kitson last week. We did get to see Kitson. It was last week. Was it last week? Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was. That's how weeks work. Huh? That's how weeks work. Yeah, but my perception of time is all turned around. Because it's half term. Yeah.
00:05:40
Speaker
You know, and my wife and kids have gone away for a couple of days so that I can work throughout half term. Because normally what happens during half term is that I'm working at home there, then also at home. and And it's hard to tell kids, no, your dad's working. You can't just like. Yeah. You know, um so my wife's taken a couple of days.
00:06:05
Speaker
yeah so i've been on my own and basically it's it's kind of altered my entire perception of how time works because i'm not used to being on my own yeah Do you know what I mean? like yeah that's fine So last night, ah because i was meant to I was meant to have a gig and it got cancelled.
00:06:23
Speaker
yeah yeah Which gig was it? It was a show up and go up one. But I'd seen on i'd seen on ah the forums that had been cancelled. What a show up go up? I think it was one in Manchester, kind of the name of it.
00:06:42
Speaker
anyway i yeah
00:06:47
Speaker
So I just ended up sitting in and kind of watching TV and it's just so rare that I would like sit in the living room and watch like three episodes of something on my own. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I just, know yeah, it's just kind of it's fucked with my entire equilibrium as far as time is concerned. Not with me, but I don't have fortune. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's just there's constantly something going on in my house and there hasn't been for a couple of days.
00:07:16
Speaker
yeah no that's fair so it's just a bit weird um but yeah then yesterday um and anyone listening to this will fucking this is a ah little insight into kind of how uh by the seat of my pants i am with with a lot of stuff um do you remember when we we way back when we recorded the the the episode uh for comedy vehicle episode six yeah where and I tried to cancel myself. Yeah, yeah. I finally edited that together yesterday. Right, Matt. and Which talks I'm doing.
00:08:02
Speaker
and So yeah, it's just i'm I'm a bit behind in everything that I'm kind of meant to be doing. Yeah, that's fair. And I'm very confused about where I'm at in life. Aren't we all?
00:08:17
Speaker
yeah like Yeah, no, I'm with you. But anyway, right, so we've we've kind of come together here and we said we were going to do this in the immediate aftermath of going to see Kitson.
Kitson's Storytelling and Stand-up Blend
00:08:28
Speaker
And I feel it's relevant because obviously Stu wangs on quite a bit about how much of an influence Kitson is on him. Yeah.
00:08:39
Speaker
you know he's kind of routinely held up as in Stewart's mind you know either his favorite stand-up comedian or the best stand-up comedian he's he's used those terms interchangeably like I think I said to you like Stu's my favorite but Kitson's the best yeah like as far as I'm concerned and I think I think last Thursday proved that to me really I kind of had it in my head anyway but seeing it live in that way um really just kind of hit home fucking hell this guy's good. Yeah it's effortless. Yeah well that that was the thing for me. even Even at this stage like we should clarify that it is currently a work in progress
00:09:29
Speaker
as he kind of identifies it, like he basically said, it's not going to be ready until like March next year. So it's still early, like he's only just finished his last one.
00:09:47
Speaker
yeah but like the thing the thing that gets me though is how when you are and and obviously you know there is a difference between a person who's been doing it two or three years like we have um and a person i was gonna say like i'm in a sort of similar position yeah with my new show where i've almost i'm almost at the peak let's say the peak at the end of the previous show Yeah. And I've started writing in the new one. Yeah. I'm like half the way there. Yeah. um But it's just insane to me. and The void. Between. Or is it the void? I'm thinking of the right one. Like the level difference.
00:10:43
Speaker
between my, like, just working something out. Yeah. And his just working something out. Yeah, I mean, well, it's that thing. Yeah, but that vo that void is 30 years. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? odd Or thereabouts, however long he's been kind of doing it, 25 years, something like that.
00:11:07
Speaker
you know, that that's what that void is and also doing it full time um yeah to to the degree that he does. i you know like i and you know I've been lucky enough to kind of take in quite a lot of his work down the years.
00:11:24
Speaker
um not as much of it in person live as I'd have liked but you know obviously I've been quite lucky to kind of see quite a lot of his stuff right but the one thing about him is that he's not only like pretty relentless with it in that he's always creating something which you know it's like anything else the more you do something the better you get yeah ah and he you know he's a really good example of that is that
00:11:53
Speaker
button I don't know, i might I'm gonna i'm goingnna finish this point and then I might disagree with myself based on something that he said in the
Breaking the Fourth Wall with Humor
00:12:00
Speaker
show. But home but like you know it does appear to be effortless in that sense and I think that is just repetition. yeah you know But then, you know as ah as I just said, like he he actually said in the show, he made a really brilliant analogy.
00:12:16
Speaker
of like um creativity or I can't remember the exact wording but the analogy was creativity is kind of like um being able to do with shit yeah in that it's really easy when you're young and it like it flows out of you quite effortlessly whereas when you're older there's a lot more sort of like frustration and coffee involved
00:12:40
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I don't know if that was an anecdote just for comedic value or whether he means that or not though. I don't know. It's it's hard to tell. no i'll be um <unk>s It's hard to tell because he's a storyteller. Like he, you know, you can like like that line. So we should say, obviously, the thing the thing that we went to see was his sort of early work in progress at the, I can't remember, what's the name of the venue? Is it Royal? The Royal Exchange in Manchester. Royal Exchange in Manchester. So it's like in the round, right?
00:13:16
Speaker
proper old school theatre type place. He was in there un-miked. We arrived ever so slightly late because I think we thought it was like doors at seven and it was it was not it was starting at seven. yeah So we arrived ever so slightly late and ended up on the balcony at the top which was obviously not the seats that we'd purchased. no But I understand they did that so that they weren't disturbing the performance. I get that. I'd rather them do that than me.
00:13:44
Speaker
Yeah, it makes sense. Although it would have been funny to see how he would have reacted if we'd have just turned up and took our seats right at the front where we'd paid for them. Yeah. That would have been very funny. But and we we arrived. Daniel specifically asked them to put, from what they said, he specifically asked us, asked them to put light cameras upstairs.
00:14:09
Speaker
Yeah, and that's fine. And that that makes sense. I im sorry i i agree with. like Yeah, I 100 percent agree to deal with that. But why should I? Yeah, he shouldn't have to. And, like you know, as we saw with the show itself, he takes enough. ah I mean, we can't talk about this. I've just edited together a two hour podcast episode for a 26 minute episode of television. But yeah, and he he takes enough diversions as it is. Yeah. Which obviously we're very familiar with. But um So we when we kind of got there he was just, he seemed to just be wrapping up the kind of initial hi hello I'm here this is what's happening bit of the show because then as soon as we got there he basically finished an anecdote, ended on a laugh that we didn't hear the set up for um and then launched into effectively the piece, the story that he was there to tell yeah um which I don't want to
00:15:05
Speaker
I want to try and talk about this without getting into it too much because I don't want to spoil it for people because it yeah a brilliant you know it's a brilliant thing. But all I can kind of say is is it's very much in his wheelhouse in that if you've seen any of his theory stuff before, his storytelling pieces, you will know that he tends to do sort of two opposing timelines.
00:15:27
Speaker
So like he had one years ago called it's always right now until it's later. I think that was the title of it but ultimately it's kind of it's these two sort of disparate stories told and out of chronological order, kind of picking various dates out of the area. It was a really, really interesting piece that he did, but throughout it, you're trying to kind of guess how these two stories connect to each other. um And that was essentially the path that he followed here.
00:15:55
Speaker
but yeah in between those bits that he read from his book, which was effectively the story that he was telling of, you know, one guy sat on ah sat on a bench overlooking a cliff and then another person sat on a bus. You know, it was it these two different story strands. In between those, he was doing like proper genuine and anecdotal stand up. Yeah. um Which fucking helped like eight It was just incredible to see someone that's so good in both mediums. Yeah. Mix them. Yeah. So um naturally.
00:16:34
Speaker
But like it was still performance. Yeah. But it it felt more comfortable. Yeah. Because it was just it was like you were being told a story.
00:16:49
Speaker
because you were being told the story. yeah But then in between, they were really interesting bits,
00:17:02
Speaker
or him reacting in in the yeah in the moment to things that happened in the room, or yeah like his ability to be to be distracted but not thrown is really really strong yeah it's that thing of yeah like i can be distracted on stage quite easily as we're probably well aware of um but then that would possibly throw me yeah um and other than maybe and dropping his notebook or whatever that was superb which again
00:17:47
Speaker
Is that good that you start to wonder what bits are real and what bits are fake? well this and I suppose this is what this is kind of where this meandering point of mind started was that like with him it's hard to know um what's genuine.
Sincerity and Performance in Kitson's Shows
00:18:06
Speaker
and what's performance because he is such a good writer. Yeah. um And he is such a good performer that the sincerity of him saying something that's him. Yeah. Whereas, you know, or or the the kind of artifice of him saying something that's the story that he's telling. You can't always tell the difference between the two of them. Like it there is a bit where, you know, there are bits where it's kind of it feels obviously him.
00:18:32
Speaker
Yeah. And these are probably unique to each night. They probably don't come up, you know, they come up organically. So like the bit that sticks in my mind and it sticks in my mind because he's one of the best I've seen at being able to do this. He can be really, he can mix high art and pretension, but with really, and what's the phrase I'm looking for? Like he can speak like a chav.
00:19:01
Speaker
yeah and have it be art yeah do you know what i mean like chav's probably the wrong word but like there was a bit there was a thing near the start where he was talking about himself and he basically said that he understands that it's vain but he's always wanted to be fucking shredded yeah and like it's one of those things where like you know That isn't a phrase that Stewart Lee, for example, would say. Yeah. Whereas Kitson's... And it's also one that you wouldn't necessarily expect Kitson to say. You wouldn't, but it when it happens, you know it's funny. Yeah, but you wouldn't expect him to say it, but the thing is, he's got that side of him in his locker. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? He's got that. yeah's got It's not completely left, like... Yeah, it's not like, shortly where it would feel off.
00:19:53
Speaker
Yeah, it'd feel forced if he said it. But it was still unexpected enough.
00:20:00
Speaker
Partly, again, because of the context that he's in. But I just, I don't know, him man, there's just something about him that like, it's almost like, and and I know this is a bit of a reach in terms of ah a comparison, but you know, in the way that, you've seen the film super bad.
00:20:22
Speaker
Yeah. You know the character of MacLovin? Yeah. Where he's a dork who thinks he's an absolute bowler. Yeah. like i think I feel like Kitson can really well straddle that dork bowler line. Like he has the ability to talk like a member of NWA.
00:20:43
Speaker
Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like, whilst also doing a really sort of sensitive piece about a man who makes tapes to erase his past. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? It's it's such a weird, a weird line that he straddles. um But it just fascinates me. Yeah, I think that's like the theatre side kind of creeping in. Yeah. Because you can get away with that in the theatre.
00:21:13
Speaker
a bit more. What, mixing the two? Yeah, I think because maybe it's just that I've not seen it as much in comedy. Yeah. So it's not necessarily that you can't do it. Yeah. It's just people don't. I think if people did it, it'd be too obviously him though. Yeah, possibly. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's loads of stuff that I see in Kitson.
00:21:43
Speaker
where I'm like, oh, I've seen that in those people. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like clearly myself. Yeah. and me Me as well. Right. I'll tell you what's a specific one that i've I've kind of realized that I've kind of and it's it's more difficult for us because obviously he's from Yorkshire as well. um Yeah. And I'm more storytelling. Yeah. Which makes it more. You cross over a bit.
00:22:09
Speaker
Yeah. But the thing is, like, he's from Yorkshire. I'm from Yorkshire. I've watched his work for years, but we use similar vernacular in the excuse me, in the sense that, you know, that there are certain words that get used more up north than they do in London, for example. I know he lives in London, but he's from Yorkshire. um But what I've noticed is certain the certain phrases that I use all the time and I can't help but think they've been assimilated from him.
00:22:37
Speaker
And I quite often use the word livid as a you know in a punchline or as a punchline or and he does that quite a lot. like and And even the intonation of like saying the phrase fucking livid, like yeah it's such a kits and thing to do. um And I caught myself occasionally catch myself doing it.
00:22:59
Speaker
but it became apparent the other night when we watched this, I was like, oh, I do that all the time, you know. Yeah, you need one of your newer jokes has got that as a punchline. Yeah, exactly. And this is the thing. And it it really kind of brought it home to me and I'm like, oh, that's where I've picked that up from. um But, i you know, part of me wonders is it like, because he is able to kind of melt these two, you know, the theatre and the stand up.
00:23:28
Speaker
I feel like the the storytelling bit is his theatre wanting to come out and then all the kind of little colloquial bits of language and all the little asides that he does is is the stand up trying to kind of muscle in and and and get involved. like But he seems to blend them so seamlessly. And I remember like there's a bit where, again, I don't want to get too much into the story, but it was a bit where somebody spilled some coffee on their crotch in the story. Yeah.
00:23:52
Speaker
um and he broke off at that point to tell a little story about how he was in a cafe that day. Now obviously we know as stand-ups that day could mean at any point in history. Yeah, you know you make you make it current but then but then what he did was...
00:24:10
Speaker
I can't remember if it was the coffee story or another one, but at some point throughout the evening, he told a little ah anecdote on an aside and he said, I don't know why I'm trying to make this current. It didn't happen. like Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So yeah he's doing so many things at once. he's He's telling the story he wants to tell. He's breaking away to comment on the room. He's breaking away to comment on his own performance. And, you know, people are going to be listening to this and thinking, well, that's just what Stuart Lee does. Yeah. And um yeah, he does. but and sort of It feels very different. it doesn't Yeah, it doesn't feel the same.
00:24:46
Speaker
um like I think that the the layer that Stuart's added to his version of this is a kind of, he wants to be quite on the nose to tell you what he's doing. It felt, so matt my my um comparison,
00:25:08
Speaker
yeah is that Daniel Kitson feels like a warm blanket. ah yeah Whereas as Stuart Lee, I don't necessarily have a feels like, but it'd be like not quite a bed of nails.
00:25:32
Speaker
There's a and as tension that he creates. that like he's fine with you being uncomfortable. Yeah, so well I suppose this is what I was going to say is it's about the intention behind what they're doing.
Audience Connection: Kitson vs. Lee
00:25:52
Speaker
Yeah. They're doing similar things for different reasons. Kids and it feels much more like you feel taken care of.
00:26:04
Speaker
Kitson wants to bring you in. Yeah, exactly. what He wants to keep you at a distance. Yeah. Well, yeah, like... want to necessarily exclude you but I mean, in some, in some centers, it will actively exclude you. Well, I'll tell you what, though, right? So... you If you're team B. I think, yeah, exactly. Yeah, team F. Does this analogy work, then? It's like Kitson would be like a comfortable armchair, like a lovely sofa.
00:26:30
Speaker
or something, and Stuart Lee would be ah a kind of stool with one leg too short. An emergency chair. Yeah, that where you've got to put a little folded beer mat underneath one leg because it's too short. like Yeah, you're still sat down, yeah yeah but you're not you're not fully... I mean, similar to how I was sat during Kitson, I was physically less comfortable than I would be yeah because of we will say that the seating arrangements in the Royal Exchange balcony are not suitable for those of a certain weight.
00:27:18
Speaker
No, and do you know what the thing is, right? And um I wanted to... um I was going to mention this and I didn't want to mention this on here, but you've brought it up so that's fine. We can talk about this. and yeah Yeah, we can talk about it. Well, because I felt so bad because I was like, come to Manchester and and we'll watch Kitson. And then you were like stood up all evening. Which after being a chef. Yeah, after being a chef.
00:27:46
Speaker
Yeah, erm, no I just, to me it was like, I could see a way that you could get into that chair but I couldn't communicate it to you. Yeah. Like I i knew how you could do it.
00:28:01
Speaker
but the But yeah, like, Kaitlyn was on and you can't. I'd have had to say, look, do this, do this, do this. I'd have had to give you these instructions. Because I was looking at it like a puzzle at one point, which was, even yeah to be fair, I did an interesting Stuart Lee-esque. Possibly if I'd have been able to get my foot up onto the ledge that you stood on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To get into your seat. I think that the the key to it is, Joe, is that you've got much bigger legs than I have.
00:28:30
Speaker
and so for you to be able to like just slide into it yeah wasn't just possible and it was because there were those stupid fucking arms on the thing yeah listen if anybody's from the royal festival exchange is listening they won't be but for the love of fucking christ for anyone who's ever so like you're not even like normal scene because i've sat in there um i've been in that theater before yeah And I just, and we were in the normal seats. And it was fine. So I don't understand why they need to have. Yeah, yeah, I'm not like, red like, I'm not documentary fat.
00:29:14
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And well, this is my point right is I didn't want to I didn't want to bring this up and be like, you couldn't get into those seats because you're fat. Like that's not that's not what happened. Like those seats have you been? Yeah, but right. So have you been to city varieties in Leeds? You haven't you? No, no, no, I've never seen a food city where it is. Oh, mate, I'm going to have to take you to something at city varieties. It's one of the greatest. It's for my money, it's the best theater in the country. But no, Michelle.
00:29:42
Speaker
i yeah well i have I have things about that. um This is going to sound harsh um and it's not meant to. And if Alex is listening, please take this in the in the spirit. I think you're an incredible person. I will not i will not pay theatre prices to see someone that I can gig with.
00:30:04
Speaker
Yeah Like you know what I mean like you said the exact same thing and I would say it directly to Alex best will in the world I love Alex. I really genuinely do I've watched this show. I love this show I have I can't do it um I should say that but very Very I I
00:30:30
Speaker
helped in a very minimal way yeah i would i would i'm i'm so i'm saying all this i would like to see alex in in city variety it's just because it'd be so cool to see a friend in yeah in a theater that's on my bucket list yeah um if i remember rightly he's doing less to square theater on that tour as well he is um and which two those two theaters are my two book at least the same place you're at leagueings just be well just Yeah but like City Varieties is so iconic anyway and the reason I got onto this is because I want to take you to City Varieties but we'll go sit in ah in a box, right? To see if I can get into one. No but the reason the reason it came up in my mind is because those old style theatres, I don't know if it's just because people were malnourished back then or whatever but like
00:31:20
Speaker
People were smaller. Old style theatres are not built for for bigger people. and on no i know so there's like ven and I'm well aware of this. Do you know ah Sophie Hagen? Yeah.
00:31:34
Speaker
So Sophie Hagen, obviously, she's, ah you know, she's well, she would say herself, she's fat. um But she's she's a big, you know, she's a bigger lady. She does a lot of material about what it's like to be, um you know, bigger and all that kinds of went see a show in Edinburgh. It's incredible. And she did a thing on her last tour where she she was like getting in touch with theaters and being like look people who are bigger come and see my shows and they need to be able to to get into the what accommodations have you got and you know and she was letting people know kind of what what was available and all that kind of stuff but it just doesn't cater for it now and and the truth of it is is people are bigger these days than they used to be yeah whether that's our diets or whatever i don't know but anyway the long story short
00:32:26
Speaker
um You couldn't get into the seat. Yeah. for For one reason or another. I was stood for an hour and a half. So you stood for an hour and a half. Occasionally, every now and again thinking, no, I'm going to have another go and try and get in. It was quite funny. Yeah. there was soce right So there's two levels, right? Yeah. There was the seats that we were in that were the kind of high chairs, essentially. Yeah.
00:32:52
Speaker
That's essentially what they felt like. And then just directly in front of us yeah were normal seating. It's their way of doing tiered seating. Now, there was an empty chair on that row in front of us. And I said to you, I tried to say to you, but you couldn't really hear me because I didn't want to talk loud enough so that Daniel could hear me.
00:33:22
Speaker
yeah um
00:33:26
Speaker
I was basically saying I'm gonna sit in that seat because then at least even though we're not sat next to each other at least I'll get to sit down and I'll be able to enjoy it more I think. Let's go sit afterwards. I went to go sit in it yeah and I realized that the woman that was sat next to that seat had laid her coat over that seat yeah that's a dick move so that no one so that i was like and i'm not going to especially because it hurt and then the balcony yeah yeah yeah so i wouldn't say i didn't want to it to draw on attention making any attention yeah to be drawn in that direction and throw and you know and it would have done as well um yes i mean the thing is right a couple of things about that number one
00:34:22
Speaker
What that woman did was a dick move. um you know You never do that. You don't do that. If you're saving in a seatgu someone on i take see if he's saving you seat for someone, like they've gone to the bar or whatever, if it's in the interval or you get there before them and you're meeting them there and they've got a ticket for that seat, I get it. Stick your fucking coat there and then when they get there, you move it. That's fine.
00:34:43
Speaker
but you you just you don't i've i've come up against this in cinemas on trains on buses you know we've all kind of been in and it's just such a dick thing to do you know um it's like saying i'm too important to have someone sat next to me um you know which which irritates me but also what irritated me more about that woman wasn't that it was the fact that not only was her coat over the seat it was also dripped over the um the railing that you could have stood on to get into your seat. Oh was it as well? Yeah yeah and to be honest that's why I thought you didn't stand up onto the railing. Right. yeah Because her coat was on there. Yeah. But basically
00:35:26
Speaker
the Like I said, there was there was a way from a ah physics point of view that you could have got in there, but it just it' had been so difficult for me to explain. Yeah, yeah. Because I could kind of see from my angle where you could have done it. So next time, but we're going to get there much earlier. Next time, we I'm going to probably take the afternoon off work. Oh, do you know what? I've got to be honest. Next time, when he comes back around in March and we see the full version of the show, I'm not going to Manchester. Well, yeah, I suppose.
00:35:55
Speaker
He won't just be doing mentions to them, really. No, he'll take it around a couple of places. And to be fair, given that, like I say, he's got some some roots in Yorkshire, he often does a couple of little venues round here. ra It's never like a city varieties type thing. He but he he could. That's a shame. To be honest, he could potentially fill Playhouse.
00:36:15
Speaker
Yeah, he I mean, he could easily fill playhouse. I don't know. Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. This this is a guy who, you know, I can't remember exactly when it was, but it might have been either around the time he won the Perrier or or a few years after. But when he when he released a ah show, he crashed the National Theatre's website. Amazing. um You know, and eight I find it fascinating. Here's what just in case if you got to this point,
00:36:42
Speaker
Yeah. You don't know who Daniel Kitson is. Fucking hell. Can you imagine? He is your favourite comedian's favourite comedian. Yeah, I mean, unless... I don't know, right? It's funny you say that. Right, there's a lot of people that say... He's the best. That Kitson is the best. Yeah, I mean, and you know, you look at kind of all the different... It's weird to think the people that he intersects with as well.
00:37:12
Speaker
a You know, in the he I put him in the in the racket of being an outsider artist. Yeah. Like, I don't think of him as a comedian, even though he is. He's a very good one. um But that's that's what makes him so good, I think, is that um he and a lot of people will like him. Yeah. Because
00:37:44
Speaker
he isn't out there like on one leg yeah like if you don't like Shirley then you're not gonna like Shirley yeah exactly yeah yeah like if you don't like Frankie Boyle yeah you're not gonna like Frankie Boyle whereas I sort of to a certain extent defy anyone to not like kids and Yeah like yeah it's such a weird thing. Such as it's so inoffensive but not in like a woke way. Yeah. It's just it's good storytelling. Yeah. And then there's natural asides. Yeah. Or like something happens in the room like one of the things that made me really laugh.
00:38:34
Speaker
was that um he was pointing during the description, during a story. yeah pointting da Was it down the bus or something? yeah and and And an audience member that we didn't see, unfortunately, because of the way it works with him being in the round, yeah um an audience member looked where he was pointing.
00:39:02
Speaker
yeah as if as if he was pointing actually down the bus yeah she was lucky yeah yeah but it's so engaging and that's like i i'm that sort of person that i will look if someone points and says something i will look it doesn't matter what it is that they point that once one of my friends just to test us out pointed and said hey look it's you and i still looked
00:39:33
Speaker
Because you're not i'm I'm not like consciously looking. Oh, is that me? Yeah. Looking because you pointed and said something. Yeah, of course. But like but but but but but he did loads of that order was there was a tiny bit of paper. Yeah. That had fallen. From the um from the rafters, essentially. Yeah.
00:40:02
Speaker
and was like falling down and he noticed it. yeah Which is the best thing to do in that situation because everyone's seen it. Yeah and he addressed it. He addressed the elephant in the room. yeah yeah Also the thing that he did that I thought was brilliant because it's 100% true and especially with my memory, yeah he was like the thing is you're all going to get home tonight having seen all of this. yeah And the only thing you're going to remember is that thing falling down. Yeah, exactly. And it's true. That's one of the three things that I can genuinely like remember but like happening. Yeah. And it's those things that happen in the room. Yeah. Or like. Did so someone said something? But not like a hecko.
00:40:56
Speaker
yeah but like ah he was he was all he was referencing a heckle from the previous night yeah where someone one had said that the story was confusing yeah and then he got to quite a confusing bit and i think and actually like made it made more of it than that he needed to yeah made it more laborious yeah and then when see it's not confusing my like that guy said and it's stuff like that that that may end up being in the full shot maybe because you cannot like once that happens yeah that can be the the previous night every night yeah like that doesn't need to well the thing is right that doesn't even need to be true just kind of going back to
00:41:54
Speaker
the the The initial, the start point of where where we're at now is that that thing you said about how you defy anyone to dislike Kitson.
Creative Freedom and Anonymity
00:42:04
Speaker
Yeah like I was trying to work out why that is because like you said there are a lot of stand-ups like they have a style and if you don't gel with that style or you're not into what they're doing you're not gonna like it um and I think the thing with Kitson is like he could be huge like he could be massive
00:42:28
Speaker
but he chooses not to be. yeah He chooses to be big enough that he can make everything everything he wants to make, he can travel the world, he can do comedy, he can live very well, thank you very much. And do you know what I mean? like Yeah, and he can do stuff that interests him. He can do stuff that interests him, but also walk around largely anonymously, except if he bumps into a nerd like one of us, right? Yeah. um You know, like when I when i was in Edinburgh,
00:42:55
Speaker
um and I was walking up towards the Pleasants with Noah to go watch Jordan Brooks' show. um I was walking up a back street up near the Pleasants to kind of cut through and um there was Daniel Kitson and Rose Mattafayo walking down the streets towards us together eating falafel.
00:43:17
Speaker
right and I was just like this is this can only happen in Edinburgh yeah like it can only happen in Edinburgh um and I said to Noah I said that's Daniel Kitson over there did you did you say hello no did I fuck i put it i even put it on I even put something about it on Facebook. I would have i would have had to. No, I couldn't. I couldn't. um I think that's the ah that's one of the few places that I think it would be acceptable. Yeah, and people have said this to me since, and I get it. I understand what people are saying, right? They're there for the festival. like so It was very easy for me were usa like yeah and to enjoy a family meal or whatever.
00:44:03
Speaker
But like when I've seen Stu, it's very easy for me to queue up afterwards, you know, yeah buy a book or buy a CD or whatever. Yeah, because you feel like you've earned the right to see him. Well, not only that, he's kind of set up an avenue for you to do that. You're not intruding on anything. He's inviting you.
00:44:20
Speaker
Yeah, and you know what I mean? He's he's kind of he's put this thing in place where it's like you've just come and seen me Come and let's have a little interaction. If you want to buy a you can buy a CD um But here's here's this mechanism for you to come and say hello So, you know, I've had the opportunity obviously on a couple of occasions you and I did it together at one point I've had the opportunity to tell him what he means to me Yeah. in an In an environment that doesn't feel intrusive. Yeah, it's a bit like a comic-con. Yeah, exactly. um You know, except, you know, but obviously, Stu doesn't charge for an interaction. He doesn't even kind of want you to. Sort of, because you're buying something, aren't you?
00:44:59
Speaker
Yeah, but that's the thing, you're buying something, aren't you? You're not buying it to speak to the guy. but yeah But the point, and you don't even have to, and obviously when we when we went even when we went after basically, as as soon as we mentioned we were both comedians, he was scrambling around like, let me give you this book.
00:45:14
Speaker
yeah i did get on yeah Best Will in the World, you're not getting that from Marvel. not yet sure you know what i mean so but anyway like um whereas with the kitson thing and rose mattifayo and to a to a slightly lesser degree rose mattifayo like i'm a big fan of hers and but it would have just been one of those weird things where i would have gone over gushed all over daniel kitson and then turned to rose rose mattifayo and said hello no did i read like i think he would have I would have, but there's no way ah it it would have been in my mind. It wouldn't have been equal. There is no way that it would have been matched. Yeah. Like I would have said to Kitson.
00:45:56
Speaker
You know, um I don't even know what words I would have said. There are no ways to put it into words. ah Yeah. As such in terms of like, you know, this is a kid who makes. tram Yeah. But this this is a kid who was um horrible. He was nerdy like me. He's got balls eyes like me. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? He's from the kind of place that I'm from. He grew up with a stutter. I didn't have a stutter, but I had other limitations and all that kind of like.
00:46:23
Speaker
you know that the parallels are kind of there it was on phoenix nights i was also i wasn't on phoenix nights um but like you also hate phoenix nights i don't hate phoenix nights quite like phoenix nights um i'm a big fan but i i'm just not a fan of um i'm getting into it the um clinton baptiste
00:46:51
Speaker
i I love as a character. Yeah, but is that just because of this thing about that theatre blog? What theatre blog? Do you remember the thing that blew up? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, it's not about that. You could write for them at one point.
00:47:10
Speaker
i I still do. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's it's not. No, it's nothing against Clinton. OK. It's his fan base.
00:47:22
Speaker
Okay, just like because like and I don't be grudging it at all Because I think he's great. Yeah But it just seems to be that poor him. Yeah, I do genuinely think poor him You've got all these people that just are fans of him because he made one nonce joke in feelings nights and And that's all they care about is the- And getting the word nonce. Yeah, yeah. And you see it all over Facebook where like, because obviously like gigs and stuff and the comments underneath that are all Jackie so-and-so, like tagging her mate trees or whatever. Yeah.
00:48:10
Speaker
with I'm getting the words and that yeah and that's it and I say yeah but it's like poor guy like he's got like he's like really good character comedy yeah and yes that's a great example of it yeah but don't reduce him to just that No, and I get i get that, but that that happens with any character that has a meaningful catchphrase or something that catches on. Like it's, yeah you know, it's like we were talking about Friday night dinner. like You were having a laugh. Exactly. But, you know, we were talking about Friday night dinner before and that that's kind of... Oh, yeah, true. Ended up in most people's consciousness being reduced to like shalom and shit on it. Do you know what I mean? So like, it is so much more than that when you watch it and like,
00:49:02
Speaker
i Yeah, but but this is the thing taking it back to kits and like I genuinely think that's why he jumps around the board so much because other than having like a bit of a groove in terms of the way that he writes stuff, like I say with the opposing narratives and all that kind of stuff, and different narrative threads, but beyond that, all of these pieces are like massively different every time he does them. They've kind of got the Kitsonian trademarks in that they mix like the profane and the profound and they're kind of, they're usually like really hopeful and really kind of like bittersweet and
00:49:34
Speaker
you know, and he uses obviously ah quite sort of working class vernacular, but also quite highfalutin poetic language. um he mixes He mixes genres really, really well. um But beyond stylistic tropes of his own, that they're not there's nothing you can pin on him to say that's a trademark.
00:50:00
Speaker
like a catchphrase, you know, you you know like Stuart Lee's got to let himself go and yeah and all that kind of stuff where he's he's kind of, he's running with that. yeah and And rightly as well, it's what his fans want, they like the repetition, I'm one of them, right? But whereas Kitson doesn't go in for anything like that, there's nothing from the current piece that you would identify as being of the previous piece with the exception of the fact that Daniel Kitson's the one doing it.
00:50:31
Speaker
and it's in his style. um But like the thing for me that I really... He goes out of his way a lot of the time to say that hes these are all just characters. um like i I was watching a thing... Do you subscribe to his newsletter? No. You should do, because he sends out like content. Power. ah him So like because it's Halloween, he's and um he sent a thing about... It's him doing a performance of like a ghost story.
00:51:01
Speaker
Oh wow. In an empty theatre. And it's a really brilliant. he does He does this quite a lot. He did it during the pandemic as well. but like um It's him telling a ghost story in an empty theatre. And i'm not again, I'm not going to go into the specifics because we're talking about pith. But um there is a bit in it.
00:51:21
Speaker
where he makes a proclamation as, as the car, you know, telling the story, the character says something, not controversial, but something a bit potentially contentious. It's and breaks away and he says, look, I want to make it clear here that those are the views of the character. Yeah, he did. Do you know what I mean? Not the views of gun right all like an incredible Yeah. I wanted to, like, he didn't get an applause break. And it should have. Should have. Yeah. Because I think, and you know, what which bit I'm going to say from which. Let's see if we're on the same page. Where one of the characters in his story. Yeah. Says something that is wrong. Yeah. Like it's factually and incorrect.
00:52:10
Speaker
Yeah. Either I can't remember exactly what it was. Yeah. Whether whether it was like us that the said something, pronounced something wrong or something where it was just factually inaccurate. Yeah. It looked like a mistake. Yeah. And then he goes, I want you to know that's him making that mistake. Not me. I i know.
00:52:36
Speaker
And it's so good yeah to put in a mistake so that but as a red herring yeah so that people go, always made a mistake there. And he's like, ha! No! yeah I know what I'm doing. That's an intentional mistake on the part of the character. yeah yeah which then the Then the egg is on your face yeah for thinking, oh well that's
00:53:07
Speaker
It's actually. Yeah. It's not Pacific, is it? It's Pacific. Exactly. Yeah. But I think if i so if I remember rightly just thinking back to that bit that you're talking about, I'm fairly sure he capped off his little aside by saying it's not a mistake. it Something along the lines of it is a mistake, but it's not a mistake. In the end, it's just good writing.
00:53:27
Speaker
so which at that point I wanted to stand up and applaud because I'm just like do you know what yeah it fucking is and I'm so glad someone wood said it all right it's the guy that's written it but fucking yeah that there are some time like that there are some of it where he's like that's brilliant yeah But because it is, yeah you can't disagree with him. um And because of his like charm, you have just being like like, it's not necessarily like but because he's open and quite
00:54:09
Speaker
um
00:54:11
Speaker
Like again, you never know what's real and what's not like yeah dropping things or like the specific one that I'm thinking of is when he drops the book. And that was such a good look that he gives it because of the way that he did it. yeah It was a slam. yeah And then a look and the timing of it. yeah I really want it to not be stay manufactured. Yeah. But at the same time, I also would be happy if it was. I mean, the thing is, if it was manufactured, and I thought about this funnily enough, after I dropped you off, m I was thinking about that bit on the way home um after I dropped you off. And I was trying to work out, like, he's obviously an incredible,
00:55:05
Speaker
ah but Would you call him an actor?
00:55:12
Speaker
No, I'd say storyteller. Okay, right. So obviously he's done some acting. Because he's doing him, he is playing himself. Telling the story. But he is and embodying a different character. Yeah, he's not doing voices or kind of. he's not he' he's ta out he's like He's acting as a storyteller. He's not acting out the parts in like a one man play. No, exactly. like um But anyway, the the point I was trying to make is because he's not necessarily an actor.
00:55:44
Speaker
I, the the kind of skill level required, I think, and maybe I'm wrong about this, because I think, you know, I've seen a lot of comedians that aren't actors, but they're incredible actors, if that makes sense. Yeah. You know, they're able to make you believe things because of how good their skills are, but they're not what you would call actors. And maybe he falls into this camp and probably does. But with that specific bit where he dropped the notepad on the floor and just to kind of illustrate it to the listener,
00:56:13
Speaker
assuming this isn't manufactured, if you go and see this in March and it happens again, then I apologize. And I don't think it will because I genuinely believe it was real and I'm going to explain why in a minute. But he he was he was midway through a sentence and he sort of went to either pick up one of the post-it notes out of his book or flip the page or something. And the book flipped out of his hand and slammed on the ground. And he reacted to it in such a way, like you said, he gave it the look.
00:56:44
Speaker
and then he kind of looked up and then he looked to get, and then he sort of went, I can't remember the exact phrase that he said, he went, right, that's it, everybody, see you later. Everybody out. everybody That was it, everybody out, right? and But just, what I'm saying is, the way that it all unfolded. It was so split second, like the timing of it. But to be able to manufacture that, I feel like to be able to manufacture that is is such a task.
00:57:12
Speaker
Yeah. Without it looking forced, even the best performance in the world, I think, would struggle to do that on command. um But he's so good. too I'm saying this. Bob Burnham does do that. um Yeah, with the dropping the water ball. Yeah. that That's what was still one of my favourite things that's ever happened. Art is a lie. Nothing is Yeah, yeah.
00:57:42
Speaker
yes yeah but but we get that being said the difference there is Bo Burnham is an actual actor yeah like so maybe there you know there is a different a difference there but yeah like fine um Daniel Kitson can act yeah yeah like he is technically an actor he has been in a tv show yeah but i just mean in in in this i wouldn't
00:58:13
Speaker
i wouldn't clarify I wouldn't classify himself him as an actor yeah I wonder who would clarify classify himself as an actor no maybe not um I mean but the thing is like I said that I think ultimately the thing with him and again just caught sort of circling back to to this thing of his appeal right yeah because again I it's obvious that he's the level he's at and he's doing the things that he's doing because that's the level he wants to be at and they're the things he wants to be doing. yeah He could 100% have done 10 nights there or one night in a massive venue. yeah i But he chose to just do a week of work in progress gigs or whatever and like he he kind of does things on his own
00:59:14
Speaker
Um, you know, that's what he, that's what he kind of wants. Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah so, you know, there's, there's obviously a, he wants to be known by the people who want to know him, as opposed to just being known by people who want to know general comedy. Um, like I'm sure I've heard it said that he refuses to do weekends in Edinburgh. Like he feeled if he doesn't Edinburgh run, he'll only do through the week.
00:59:45
Speaker
I'm sure I've read that somewhere or I've heard someone say that in the sense that on a Saturday and, you know, Friday and Saturday night in Edinburgh, people will just go see anything. Yeah. And you kind of don't want those people there. You want people who are coming just to see you. Yeah. And I was thinking about this the other day, right? In the sense that. Do you agree that a comic should be able to play any room? No, no. Me neither, but like,
01:00:15
Speaker
You know, there's there's that kind of... There are certain comics that want to play to every room. Yeah. Because they want the wide market appeal. Yeah. But that's not necessarily what is necessary. Well, I suppose it depends on the kind of thing that you
Club Comic vs. Theatrical Style
01:00:36
Speaker
want to do. like I've been thinking about this because obviously, ah you know, at the level we're at, you don't really know what kind of room you're going to get until you show up there.
01:00:45
Speaker
Yeah. um And I've had a couple of really, really difficult ones recently. um you know and and But then you get people saying to you things like, well, you know, you need to be able to adapt to that. You need to be able to play any room. And and I'm like looking at this thinking, well, no, because in terms of what I ultimately want to be able to do, like the Kitson thing of, you know, I'm not saying I want to be Daniel Kitson because I don't think that's possible, but like I I'd like to do a version of what he does or what Stu does in the sense that you you write an hour, you tour it round, you knock it on the edge, you start again next year.
01:01:20
Speaker
and and you kind of tour it round to venues where the people are there to see you. You know, it's not like a mixed bill night or... Yeah. Like, I appreciate that there's, you know, there's levels you have to go through to kind of get there. And and that includes playing 20-minute club sets for a couple of years and and and all that. You know, I appreciate there's all that sort of stuff necessary. And to be honest, I'm grateful for any gigs that I get at the minute as it's done. But... Yeah.
01:01:45
Speaker
um ultimately to get to where I want to get to, being able to play any room, you know, it doesn't sort of figure into what I want to be able to do. Like I think if your if your goal is to be a working club circuit comic,
01:02:06
Speaker
you know and be able to go into a room full of stag and hen parties or fucking office parties or just people on a on a Saturday night rager and kind of control them and kind of give them what they want and and make it a fun night for them and all that kind of stuff if you if that's what you aspire to do which The only reason I don't aspire to do that is because it frightens me and I don't like it. That's not my idea of I want to enjoy it as well as you enjoying it. Do you know what I mean? and that's that kind of I'd love to watch people do it, but just it feels like it's outside of my skill set. um But I think if you aspire to be that kind of comic, then yeah, you should be able to play every room.
01:02:52
Speaker
you know, because you could get anything. Whereas looking at the kind of thing that Kitson does, like, you know, again, going back to when we arrived late, he kind of wanted to make sure that there weren't going to be any interruptions or minimal interruptions. And he's treating it like theatre. You know, yeah because he's written he's written a piece and he wants you to listen to it. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So like, that that's kind of where I'm I tend to be coming from from it and um um I'm much more the full show. Yeah. Thing like I'm in the process of deciding whether or not I want to try it over next year. Or whether. I just want to use the money that I would have used on that to do something else to um to take the show to other venues instead.
01:03:44
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, mini tour, maybe I don't know.
01:03:50
Speaker
I mean, if that's more valuable, um certainly easier, because I think I'm going to struggle to get that amount of time. Yeah. There's holiday. um Yeah, and you you're now considering. um Yeah, you're now considering the job as well. And, and you know, this is the thing is, I from my point of view, and ah you know again, this is coming from someone who's done Edinburgh a couple of times, but not a full run. yeah um But in terms of the two experiences that I've had and kind of speaking to other people who've done other versions of what I've done or people that have done full runs and all the people that we know that have done Edinburgh in one sort of capacity or another, yeah i I think it's becoming less essential
01:04:40
Speaker
Yeah. But I suppose it depends on what your goal is. Right. So if your goal, for example, the old goal with Edinburgh was to go up there, practice your craft and kind of get, you know, write a show, make it brilliant. And then by the end of it, you can maybe take it around somewhere and do something with it. Right. So Edinburgh was there for you to hone your show. Yeah. It's now flipped around where people take full ready shows to Edinburgh. um yeah It used to be that they took them as like a shop window.
01:05:10
Speaker
yeah like they wanted producers to see them or they wanted theater companies to see them or they wanted you know what i mean yeah agents or whatever but even that now i i think is is kind of reserved for only the most PR savvy you know middle class i'm being a bit classist there when i say that but ultimately you've got to be able to afford to you've got to be able to afford the PR ah you've got to be able to kind of make a big song and dance about yourself um in order to get those people in the rooms to give you the chance to create that shop window, um yeah which obviously wasn't you know wasn't the case in years gone by when it was a bit cheaper. but So from my point of view, I suppose whether or not you you do Edinburgh would entirely depend on what you want to get out of it. oh And if what you want to get out of it is just to perform the show, you can do that for way cheaper.
01:06:03
Speaker
um you know like last I was looking at this year for me not you know 2024 the year that's kind of just coming to a close I I look back at what I've done this year and what I've done is like you know I took ah took my show, obviously did it in Leeds, took it for a couple of days, ah took it to Leicester, took it to Lancaster, took it to Brighton, took it for you know it' took it for a a short run in Edinburgh. um you know i've I've done it in in various places up and down the country um throughout the year.
01:06:41
Speaker
and in all honesty, i had a look at that I was looking at the list the other day, because there's a list on, I don't know if it's Chawl or ah somewhere like that, um might be the British Comedy Guide, but there's a list of what all the kind of mini festivals are in this country. So obviously you've got you know you've got a Newcastle fringe, you've got a Durham fringe, you've got yeah and Nottingham Comedy Festival, you've got Leicester, you've got all the Glasgow, you've got all these different little yeah festivals popping up throughout the year. You could very easily string together two or three gigs a month if your holiday permits it. um You know, obviously there's an outlay for like, you might have to pay 50 quid for a room or whatever. Yeah, coach travel and stuff. And coach travel and stuff, but it depends how bothered you are by a megabus. Like you can do that. I'm used to that. Do you know what I mean? So like, yeah, the coach like that was rough. Yeah. But like in comparison to what it costs to be in Edinburgh,
01:07:41
Speaker
um yeah like we went just for a week um and for that week it was 500 quid for the accommodation and that was because we were in the cheapest accommodation available to us. So it's 500 quid just for the accommodation for the week. um Obviously you won you you won your own as a single person, it'd be 250. So that's your accommodation And then you've just got like your general living costs while you're there. We spent 700 quid just staying alive. um yeah You know, you're talking 100 quid a day, essentially. um Well, I am because I'm fat bastard, but, um you know, and then there's your venue hire, there's your fees, all that kind of stuff. You're talking like a couple of grand.
01:08:27
Speaker
yeah at least um you know and if you go for the full run and you do all of those costs spiral you might be looking at three or four grand to do a full run yeah and that's without any pr or anything yeah exactly so it's just a exactly so then you need to you need to look at that and think well okay if that's not an option what can i do yeah there's one thing like spread out over the over the year and this was this is not necessarily do festivals but do like vas
01:08:58
Speaker
touring venue like and like so like there's little venues like there's the there's one called the Wardrobe Theatre in Bristol oh yeah that I've seen recently yeah a few venues in London they're obviously more expensive yeah um but I don't know if it's worth it because that's still more expensive is still cheaper than
01:09:24
Speaker
Edinburgh. Yeah I mean yeah whichever way you cut it I think even if you were to do even if you were to do two gigs two shows a month for 12 months which obviously you know gives you the same amount of shows that you would do in Edinburgh. Yeah because I get I get plenty enough kind of off days yeah I wouldn't necessarily need to take Time off, I just need to work around it. You you work it into your shift patterns and stuff. and Yeah, basically. But this is the thing you see. like you could You could conceivably ah string together 24 performances of a show throughout the year. Yeah. yeah you know A couple each month or whatever in between in between work and stuff. And you could do that for far less than it would cost you to go and do that in Edinburgh.
01:10:15
Speaker
Yeah, um is is kind of the way that I see it, especially the number of days yeah that you would perform. Yeah. And, you know, if you look at the type of venues that we we kind of we do so you and I did I know it's not there anymore, but we did Deena and Sheffield. um Yeah, there's there are little grassroots venues like that around the country that I'm pretty sure would have you on.
01:10:41
Speaker
um Do you know what I mean? So that, yeah, the kind just credentials that it's not like, Oh, it's my first time trying anything like this. Like, but even if you, even if you were to hire venues yourself or whatever, like, um, I can't remember which I think it's two North down in London, which is like, it's only about 50 quid.
01:11:01
Speaker
Yeah. To hire the venue. um And, you know, there's obviously there's there's all the venues of the people that we know around and about, who I'm fairly sure if you give them me enough notice and ask them nicely and stuff, they'd put you on. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So like, I think it is conceivable for you to do 24 performances of a thing, albeit spread out over 12 months. Yeah, but it's still like a tour then.
01:11:26
Speaker
Well it it kind of is but in the sense that it's far more drawn out but um at the end of the day you kind of need to be able to adapt and do it do it the way you can make it work because I don'tt think you know i don't i just don't think it's financially viable these days for people to do what they're used to do.
01:11:49
Speaker
No. You know what I mean? I think if you're, because it even, even established acts, so again taking it back to like Kitson and Shue and stuff like that, even they lose money doing Edinburgh. Yeah. But it's in their interest to do it because it drums up, you know, it draws up enthusiasm for an upcoming tour or kind of it, you know, it helps them. Yeah, they can get reviews and stuff which then Yeah. How to sell the tour and. But it just, help it keeps them visible and it helps them upsell other things. So they're, you know, they're effectively, they're paying out for, it's advertising for them really, um, to do Edinburgh. You know, I don't think, I don't think anybody goes to Edinburgh these days with dreams of making money. Oh, no, I never thought that it that that would make money. No. And this is the point. So like, if you are going to take the thing and do Edinburgh, which if I'm honest with you, I would suggest if you're going to do it at any point, I wouldn't do it next year just because of the whole Oasis thing.
01:12:47
Speaker
Yeah well it's not just not just that to be honest, like we'll find out until the minute we're HP'ing at uni. Yeah exactly, so it's like you know it's not ideal.
01:13:01
Speaker
um but you know This ah podcast has just suddenly become um all about me, so please feel free to cut all of that out.
01:13:13
Speaker
because I don't think anyone listening to this is interested in what I want to do. I don't know, at the end of the day it's all performance related. when It's not like we're sat here talking about what you should say. like If I'm coming to a venue near you, yeah please feel free to join. Tell you listen to the pod and that you love me. and Yeah, that'd be good. Well let's take, yeah, joe um'm I'm looking at Joe right now um and he's looking a bit sheepish. I think he's, I think he's, you look melancholy Joe. I'm very tired. You look, you look pensive. I'm going to the gym shortly.
01:13:58
Speaker
bloody hell mate. For another four hour shift. I mean it's only a four hour shift so it's not too bad. That's alright. Well the next few days, it's half term so it's going to be rammed. But what I wanted to say was right, so while we while we're on this let's take the opportunity, Joe will be appearing at Santiago bar um do we yeah doing his ah final performance are we saying of this show?
01:14:24
Speaker
ah Currently, yes. I haven't been offered any other. So Joe's current show, which I always forget the full title of, Joe. It's called I Should Be Dead.
01:14:39
Speaker
brackets in brackets how drugs saved my life it's that's the bit i always remember i always forget that i should be dead bit um but yeah so joe joe's uh performing potentially what what is currently the final performance of his show which i've seen a few times i really enjoy it it's very immersive and theatery and and kind of just a bit out there in terms of ah it's not even stand up as far as I'm concerned like it's something entirely different and very interesting and I've I've really enjoyed kind of watching him get better at doing it um so I honestly think this will probably be the peak of it as far as um I'm putting loads of pressure on you now Joe but this will be like the last time I did it was the peak
01:15:28
Speaker
All right, so we're on the downturn now, if you want to come and watch that. No, I feel like it felt like the peak at that point. Yeah. So I feel like this wouldn't be the like the true peak.
01:15:40
Speaker
This is where he thought, he thought you know, he'd trekked up the mountain, and he thought he'd got there last time and he's realised there's another little pass for him to climb up. yeah and And he's going to see that again. his permanent It's been recorded, so... Yeah, and he's going to be recording it that night as well, which is always interesting. um i I don't have the guts to record any of my stuff, but... Don't really know how it's going to translate to film.
01:16:03
Speaker
Interestingly, um so I told you in the car the other day, we should you should do an audio version of it because I think it'd be really funny. um Because it'll make zero sense yeah without the visuals, especially the 10 minute bit at the end. um but ah But yeah, so I mean, you know, if you are local to the Leeds area, that's going to be at Santiago bar on the 13th of November. um um um And on YouTube but for those not local too. It will, yeah.
01:16:30
Speaker
and you know I think to be honest with you I think that's quite fitting because obviously we, Kitson sort of you know as Stu does kind of tests the boundaries of what live comedy can be.
01:16:43
Speaker
and And I think that's what you're trying to do, personally. I think you're trying to take things that aren't necessarily welcome in live comedy and make them feel at home. um and And you are doing that as well. I say that as a compliment, but um that' that's kind of what Kitson does for me. And yeah obviously to a less to a lesser degree, like there's a one there was one about 10 years ago and it was a really obnoxious one where People hated it. I never got to see it, but I did read about it, where he, it was like a 90 minute piece. He didn't speak at all. And he stood in the center of the stage and just operated like 48 different tape recorders. Right. To like tell this story, just pressing every time a different character spoke and like pressed, pressed all these buttons. And apparently it was really... up just that I love that. aside
01:17:36
Speaker
I like the obnoxious, really pretentious things. yeah um That's the two men on the Stuart Lee podcast. Yeah, that's it. yeah We like obnoxious and pretentious things. We talk about Stuart Lee. um Talking of obnoxious and and and kind of potentially difficult to listen to things, I was talking to Jack Wilson this morning.
Potential Guest: Jack Wilson
01:18:01
Speaker
No, there is context to that. I don't mean Jack is obnoxious and difficult to listen to. There is. I'm going to get there. He had a radio show. Yeah. It's great. It's great. I love it. Right. But he said to me, have you listened to it? And I said, yeah, I listened to about 13 minutes of it before I was going into a meeting. ah Right. And he basically he then proceeded to tell me how unpenetrable and difficult to listen to it is. I listened to it all.
01:18:30
Speaker
yeah i loved I loved it. like i so and And I sent him it and i didn't send it but i said so a message saying, I've just finished it. It's great. And he's like, you listen to it all. And I was like, yeah, it was sort of I was in a weird mood, I think. And I was like, in bed. yeah And it just became a radio you know a radio show where it's just on.
01:18:55
Speaker
yeah and you're just sort of listening to it as, but it's bonkers. Yeah. Well, it's like, but it's great for me. It's like a trip. Yeah. It's like a bad trip, but I just, all I can remember from it, you know, that thing about you were saying with the kits and thing about you won't necessarily remember stuff from this. Like I felt like that after I'd listened to Jack's thing where the only bit that I could remember was a bit it was like one of those weird sound collages near the start where someone was saying about microwaving their penis. That's all I can remember. I don't remember what the context was. They may not have been in it. No, they may not. I suppose what I'm trying to get to is I've been talking to Jack, he's going to come and do the podcast. He's obviously a very big, ah very big fan of Stuart Lee and as cross passes, you did used to work for him at one point.
01:19:53
Speaker
yeah he did say he did some some work for stewart lee at at some point uh so i'm interested to to find out a bit more about that when we can when we can make it work because he put a thing on facebook this morning i responded to it um about how for open mic comedians it's like i'll give you a lift but you have to listen to me talk about stewart lee yeah but so i sent him a thing saying you know it felt a bit like a personal attack yeah Not that I've ever had a lift off, Jack. And then he messaged me back saying, oh yeah, I need to do that podcast of yours, don't I? So hopefully at some point I'll get him on and we'll we'll find out what it was he did in his capacity as working for Stewart Lee. but But no, just to kind of tie things back to Kitson before we end.
01:20:41
Speaker
i
01:20:44
Speaker
I think the thing with Kitson, and I said this to you at the time, And I think this is why it ties into what you were saying about everyone should and probably would love Kitson.
Relatability in Kitson's Stories
01:21:00
Speaker
Yeah. Or most people would. Because if you think about the spread of of the audience that were there, those people in front of us were ancient.
01:21:07
Speaker
yeah like They were quite old. They were very old. um And I don't mean that in an ageist way. I mean that in a way of like how they must have had help getting up them stairs.
01:21:19
Speaker
yeah like it was but i was really taking why they booked the balcony i'll never know maybe they didn't maybe they did the same thing and came in late maybe um but anyway that there was the spread of the audience surprised me because i looked down at where we were supposed to be sitting and people were young and kind of all that kind of stuff yeah and there was just a spread of from about 18 to 90 years old but yeah all walks of life and every single person found something in there, as far as I could tell, that moved them. Yeah. And I think it's because Kitson, and I think I said something similar to you on the way home, something really pretentious about the fact that, all right, yeah, he's funny and he tells funny stories and a really good storyteller and all that kind of stuff, but what he kind of really zeros in on is human
01:22:10
Speaker
nurse yeah but there's a better word for that, but like, he mal he comments on what it's like to be a human. yeah They're all kind of just, all of his stories seem to be about people who want to connect. Do you know what I mean? like And you know, there usually someone's usually lonely. Yeah, and in quirky ways or yeah kind of the thing that struck me, and I think I said it to you on the way home,
01:22:40
Speaker
was um hey he said that language isn't the meaning of the words that we use. yeah It's what we mean. When we say them. When we say those words.
01:23:02
Speaker
And that's genius. It's beautiful. Yeah, but funnily enough, right? that's I love that. But then what he did, I can't remember if it was on that in that specific thing or another thing, because he what he kept doing, there was a repeated thing during this show where he kept trying to come up with really profound phrases. Yeah. And then he made fun of himself for trying to coin new, profound phrases.
01:23:29
Speaker
yeah yeah well like i think that was one of them but even in him trying to undercut himself i don't think you could undercut that no i think it just stands so well on its own and yeah that in a that in a kind of nutshell is what he does yeah he's you know and he has my favorite ever one-liner well it's not really a one-liner but he's a one-liner just not a joke my favorite ever line yeah in a stand-up show ever. Is that? No. is When he was talking about one of the guys and and he said the sentence, I used to ah used to make grand, over sweeping generalizations about myself. yeah But I don't do that no more.
01:24:27
Speaker
and it's outstanding it is great yeah in fact yeah yeah and he and he did he did the full but i don't do that no more he did it in a proper like Al Pacino yeah and it is is Because he did the perfect pause where you know what the punchline is going to be from the setup. But it's so it was so well done and just like... yeah i um I think for me, obviously there were so many great lines in that show. There was an analogy about um that I really identified with about having
01:25:13
Speaker
how because there's a whole section in there where I think one of the characters was saying to one of the other characters, you don't know what it's like. and You can't you can't know what it's like to have been in love if you've never been in love. Yeah, you know, there's that whole thing. And and then there was another there's another thing about round conversation. Yeah, about how you can um you you don't know what it's like to have children and all that kind of stuff.
01:25:40
Speaker
And you have this and an analog analogy for having children. I can't remember the context of it, but he's like it's like having a having a water slide in your house. yeah um in thats you know it's real It can be really fun, but it's incredibly inconvenient. yeah And and i just as as someone who's got four kids, I was like looking at that going,
01:26:09
Speaker
that's like for a man who like doesn't have any children yet to be able to just sum up what parenthood is yeah or at least how it felt to me like i'm not saying everyone's experience of parenthood is the same but mine no of course it perfectly spoke to me i was like shit that's it yeah and you know that that's kind of and this is what i'm saying like going back to your original point finally and for the last time i think hopefully um that's why everyone should be able to get into kits and there is something in there that every single person on earth will identify with yeah he talks about humanity pretty much i've massively over generalised there there will be people in southern sudan who won't have a fucking clue about anything he's saying yeah but all right the majority of people in the western speaking world um will
01:27:02
Speaker
should be able to find something to to cling on to there, I think. So I suppose not not wanting to put too fine a point on it, but if if anyone is listening to this for some weird reason who doesn't know who Daniel Kitson is, yeah um do me a favour and seek him out. There's not much going on on YouTube. There's a couple of clips of him at the Melbourne Comedy Gala, which I don't think give, they don't give the full impression of what Kitson is.
01:27:29
Speaker
because it's not possible in six minutes. no There's one routine about a sexy pigeon that's quite good. Yeah, I love that. Which contains one of my favourite one-liners ever. He says I'm like an ambivalent deity. Rawr. Yeah. So good.
Kitson's Digital Presence
01:27:46
Speaker
ah But, you know,
01:27:49
Speaker
He's got loads of stuff on Bandcamp. He's got loads of stuff on Vimeo or he used to have loads of stuff on Vimeo. He might have taken it off now. and Sign up to his mailing list because, you know, he does clue in on what's going on and you can, you know, he sends stuff out occasionally for free and we got tickets to go see him via the mailing list. So do check out his stuff. If you haven't, you will, if, you know, yeah.
Kitson's Appeal to Stuart Lee Fans
01:28:17
Speaker
yeah you're listening to a Stuart Lee podcast, you will like Daniel Kitson. I'm almost certain of it. um So do do try and check out some kits and stuff because it's, you know, if you if you want to know where the majority of the stand up you like comes from.
Kitson as a Foundational Comedy Figure
01:28:37
Speaker
Yeah, education zero. Just just what? Yeah, yeah. You know, he is like in the movie Contagion, he is Gwyneth Paltrow.
01:28:46
Speaker
Do you know what I mean? good Go back to the source. He is the bat that somebody ate in China. you know Or did they? I don't know. I'm not getting into that.
Upcoming Show Promo: Joe at Santiago's
01:29:01
Speaker
Dan's trying to cancel himself. for Let's go. That's not for me. um But yeah, so do do get some kicks in. Do come and see Joe on the 13th of November at Santiago's. I'll be there as well.
01:29:15
Speaker
and That's a Mike Babiglia line, isn't it? And I was there too.
01:29:23
Speaker
Cool. I'm going to stop this now because I think I'm delirious. Good idea.