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Episode 8: Comedy Vehicle #1.5 - Religion (2009)
321 Plays1 month ago
Do not adjust your podcast listening equipment. This is not a glitch, virus, or other undesirable affect of living in the modern media landscape. We are in fact back.
Now, whilst this may be an unwelcome event for most of you, to those of you who care about such things, we are sorry for the lengthy absence, it will probably happen again because no one is paying us to do this (could you imagine?) and life is just like that sometimes. If we are still doing this by Edinburgh next year, this will 100% happen again.
Anyway, in this episode, Dan and Joe fight to hide their disappointment at still having to talk about Comedy Vehicle series one, and not "If You Prefer a Milder Comedian..." or any of the later Comedy Vehicle series' were the real gold lives and there are no sketches to disguise the lack of punchlines.
This one is about religion, apparently.
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Transcript
Introduction to Across the Stewniverse
00:00:35
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Across the Stewniverse podcast, the world's only podcast about the comedian Stuart Lee. My name's Daniel Powell and we're back.
Hosts' Absence and Return
00:00:48
Speaker
It's been quite a while since we've done one of these for various reasons, which I'm not gonna get into massively, some personal, some work, some creative, basically things got in the way. um I went to Edinburgh.
00:01:03
Speaker
um did a sort of short run of my solo show went pretty well Joe's been doing some solo show stuff as well as various other bits and pieces work things and just lots of stuff got in the way really and to be honest I've not I've not even watched any stand-up in about three months it's been quite nice actually you um just concentrating on my own stuff and just not having to think about well stand up for a bit other than my own really but anyway we have returned a with a renewed sort of sense of purpose should we say in as much as it's possible to have a sense of purpose ah when you're doing in a podcast about a person who half the world has never heard of
00:01:52
Speaker
um that being said we are back and um we're picking up basically where we left off i uh i did think about we we did record together a couple of weeks ago just a kind of brief catch-up um episode but when i listened back to it it was precious little stew chat if i'm honest so it was kind of pointless putting it out there for you guys um so we just decided to wait until we could uh get together and record a proper walkthrough of an episode and this time um so we're back on comedy vehicle series one episode five religion without further ado let's get the episode started here's me and joe talking about comedy vehicle series one episode five religion
00:02:44
Speaker
We're back, Joe. yeah but We are We are back. Just before we started recording, obviously we were we were discussing the fact that we'd recorded a full episode just to try and get us back into the swing of things.
00:02:58
Speaker
like hour and a half as well yeah it was an hour and a half it was just basically me and you having a chat about obviously i'd just done edinburgh um seeing a bunch of shows up there we kind of talked about a bunch of stuff comedy related but when i was listening back to it and looking to where edit it up to put it out as an episode i kind of thought was precious little to justify it as an episode of a Stuart Lee podcast.
Joe's Comedy Journey
00:03:21
Speaker
Not even Stuart and Jason. Like if Stuart had been at the Edinburgh Fringe and I'd managed to see something then fine, like if we'd have done this in 2023 when I saw basically two nights on the trot,
00:03:34
Speaker
that fine but uh ultimately it was just me wanging on about my show um yeah you know and talk talking about all the stuff ah that i'd seen and by by the sounds of your voice interesting by the sounds of your voice giving you massive formo and kind of like it sounds like you were just hoping i'd shut up No, it wasn't anything to do with that. like and It was the the situation that I found myself in. Yeah, exactly. Obviously, we talked about it a bit ah bit in in that episode, which people will never hear. So we're going to just obliquely refer to stuff now. but
00:04:11
Speaker
yeah but yeah my love i can imagine me not being yeah you were mentally engaged less and let's just say you were listening politely but with some distance that was quite funny fair enough it was quite funny i might stick it out in a year's time as like a social experiment just to see where you've come from yeah um you know when you're uh taking the world by storm with whatever your next show is going to be. um Well iron ironically,
00:04:44
Speaker
yeah that the episode we're reviewing, are we do we review things? I think we we discuss them. I don't think we i mean we we might give an arbitrary, do we like this, do we not?
00:04:59
Speaker
yeah so like the the the topic of this yeah is the same topic for what my next show will be my fourth show hang on right because here's the thing that i need to just illustrate to the listener right is that so you ah i've got to say this right you right first of all you have no yeah we're missing the bit in the last in the podcast that you know yeah we are we are but i'm gonna i know why you gush over me I'm going to recap it in the best way that I can. right i did do There was about 10 minutes of me just telling Joe how brilliant he was. ah you To be honest, the only thing that swayed me to towards maybe be keeping it was like the five minute section of vague silence and coughing from you when I told a joke.
00:05:46
Speaker
um ah the It was one of the best laps I've had in a while. So yeah ah that was the only thing that was swaying me towards taking it. But anyway, and there there was a good 10 minute section where I was basically trying to tell you how brilliant I thought you were in terms of like you stand up and and the work that you've done, right?
00:06:04
Speaker
But for the benefit of the listener, Joe's been doing stand-up about two years, three years maybe? Yeah, two and a
Writing Comedy Routines
00:06:10
Speaker
half years. Two and a bit, right? he He wrote a solo show after about nine gigs, which fuck off, right? Straight away. And and it wasn't, ten minutes now but here's the thing, it wasn't shit either, right? Which boiled my piss to no end. It really fucking pissed me off.
00:06:30
Speaker
and all i could think and i watched it and i'm thinking who is this guy who's come out of nowhere who does he think he is decided to a make himself one of my best friends on the circuit and b be as good as he is what a wanker how dare he right um i was really irritated by it as i am by most people who do things better than me but um anyway right so you did that you took that off to festivals, you won awards, again, bastard, right? yeah And then i I was nominated for an award and then I didn't win an award for it. Well, you know, yeah if I had an award, I'd give you it. um
00:07:13
Speaker
just for the audacity yeah of of what you've accomplished thus far, right? But anyway, right? So you do that, you sort of fling that around for about a year-ish, checking that ear there and everywhere, making me look foolish, um and then you record it, right? Yeah. And that basically draws a line under that.
00:07:37
Speaker
Yeah. And in the meantime, you've been putting together this other one, right, which you then start doing as a work in progress around the place. You do it in Leeds at Santiago as you do it in Brighton. You know, you're flinging this new show around, which is different. Yeah. um It's less stand up more theatre, in my opinion. Yeah. But on its own terms, it's still a brilliant show. Right. So you've done these two. OK. Yeah. But in the meantime,
00:08:05
Speaker
We have a conversation. I can't remember if it was in person or by text, but effectively what you laid out for me was like a road map of the next five or six shows that you've got in your head. Right. And you I just want to say on behalf of everyone else who's struggling to put together a new five minutes. um How dare you.
00:08:30
Speaker
Right. you just co quantity doesn't Just who do you think you are? I don't have that many ideas. I haven't had that many ideas.
00:08:44
Speaker
and a long paper um as they say yeah and well that's where I've got quite got quite a lot of audacity yeah ah from from what's happened in my life. Once that runs out, I have nothing left. Once the world runs dry, you've got nothing new. come yeah Yeah, I've got nothing new because again, it's that thing of when, I mean, it's not the same, but like when comedians become famous yeah and then they lose their edge because
00:09:16
Speaker
their experience as just being a comedian. Yeah. Well, like, yeah, like that's going to happen to me at some point. Well, that's what um I think Stu had a really sort of interesting take on this when he talked about like Jimmy Carr. And I think from what I can imagine, I don't know about currently, but certainly down the years or the interviews I've seen and stuff like that, whenever he's referenced Jimmy Carr, obviously he makes fun of him on stage.
00:09:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But whenever he's referenced Jimmy Carr, he kind of refers to him as being like a really nice guy and someone who he's kind of had a lot of time for over the years. And, you know, he's on stage stew and hate him because he's successful. Well, not only is he successful, but he's also successful doing like rape jokes and stuff. So which is, you know, something that yeah I think both versions of Stu personally are probably vehemently opposed to, but um what he did say about him at one point, I remember seeing in an interview and I can't remember which one it was or who it was with, um but he said like that Jimmy Carr's experience of doing a thing, like going to the shops,
00:10:29
Speaker
isn't the same as a normal person's experience of going to the shops because he only knows what it's like to be in a shop when Jimmy Carr's in the shop. hey you know it's He probably walks around thinking that when when people go into the shop everyone stops and looks at them yeah like and it's just not anyone else's experience of things are slightly cheaper
Stuart Lee's Political Themes
00:10:52
Speaker
for him as well. Yeah, exactly. Well, at least, you know, it what doesn't pay the VAT on it. It's worth 12 months down the line when he files his return. really ah But yeah, I that's not the subject of today's episode, right? Because the subject of today's episode is comedy vehicle series one, episode five, religion, right? Yes. Now,
00:11:15
Speaker
ah Before we get into the episode, yeah do have and what I think is an amusing thing about the about the show, okay god I found out today when we watched it, I say we because I have a ah new kitten, that we got a month ago. She's only four months old, bless her. Did she understand the intricate letter references of the comedian Stuart Lee? She does not like the opening music.
00:11:42
Speaker
I can imagine that, yeah, it's quite impressive. I put it on and I didn't realise quite how loud the television was ah was on at the time. yeah they just meant like two to do And she darted out of the room. yeah And everyone would come in, put a pause up onto the TV unit, looking at Stu. And then we'd just run away again. I was like, ah but she you know you're not quite ready for Stu yet, are you?
00:12:12
Speaker
Right, well im i'm goingnna what I'm going to do is I'm going to transcribe that, I'm going to put it into an email and I'm going to send it to Stu as a bit of sort of customer feedback yeah in the hopes that he turns it into a routine. That would be amazing. in a if he does a bit about cats not understanding the nuances yeah in in the next uh in stewartly versus the man wolf or whatever is new i can't wait new show is called uh which we are going to in may of next year ah not next year is it next year yeah it is yeah may next year year yeah i keep forgetting that it's 2025 next year it freaks me yeah yeah it's mental innit whenever i think about it freaks me up anyway so
00:12:58
Speaker
uh series one episode five religion right yeah and i have a bit of a spot for this episode i do like this episode even though as we discussed before we started recording it's quite light on new content um i feel like there's a bit where it's expanded but that's purely because yeah but it's riffs on the same whether because i can't work out the timeline for it because obviously yeah it's different a better about Pope Benedict about uh Pope John Paul what with the shoes yeah no that's prime benedict okay right do you mean the bit about licking the sugar energy of his face yeah that's from is it standard comedian it's from 90s comedian yeah we've done that yeah so we've done that but benedict wasn't in
00:13:55
Speaker
wasn't Pope's by then, was he? I don't i don't know, but i what i was well what what I mean was the Benedict bit. No, it wasn't. In the 90s community. No, it wasn't. That's what I was trying to think of. I couldn't remember that.
00:14:09
Speaker
yeah no the the bits there's a few bits here and when we as we kind of go through it and get to them i'll try and flag them up if i can remember um but there's a few bits here that kind of jump out of me but i again this is one where i kind of the bits that stick in my mind that i recall from when i saw it first time around is um the sketches yeah so the stand-up is fairly uh you know it does it does the job right but the problem with the stand-up in this episode is i've heard a lot of it before so the big centerpiece kind of routine of this is obviously one of the tent poles of basically which is what you know the the the show that is just knocked on the head that that you and i went to see in Leeds um yeah when the the man that came to the door
00:14:59
Speaker
Yeah, Jesus is the answer. What is the question? That whole routine, which one of my favorites, Julie, but yeah, I have to say is just that that sentence. Yeah.
Tension and Release in Comedy
00:15:11
Speaker
I've waiting for him to say and I asked, can I have another guess? Yeah.
00:15:16
Speaker
It's so good. Well, the bit the bit for me is more just like it's the it's the way that he he asks the questions to the guy in like a jeopardy blockbuster style like, you know, which BAFTA nominated? but i can see I can see you go home with the with he um What is it? Filling the name?
00:15:48
Speaker
yeah following the name on Filling the blank. fell in the blank yeah Yeah, it's it's just the way that he structures it. And and obviously, that i've kind of been I've been looking at this a lot with my own work and stuff like that. It's this whole thing about making sure the words are in the right places so that the laugh comes at the right time and all that sort of stuff, right? Making sure that the key word is as near to the end of the punchline as possible and all that. sort is it It all sounds really obvious, right? But when you first write a joke, you don't necessarily know that.
00:16:21
Speaker
No. Even if you don't really know what you're doing at all, you're just saying something that you think is funny. Yeah. That's not the same as writing a joke. Well, you sort of do, like, because you've got like all, you know, defined comedy structure, you've got sort of precedents that already exist in terms of structure and rhythm and all that kind of stuff. So you know vaguely what shape you want it to fit in, right? But in terms of what words best go where. So If you've got 10 words in a punchline or 10 words in a setup even, right? Yeah. All ten words are the all of those 10 words are essential, but in terms of the biggest impact and making sure you can telegraph the punchline disguise the punchline or telegraph it if you want to, ah those words have to be in a really specific order. Yeah. And that's kind of that's what I like about that routine the most is that it feels to me. Give them the the punchline too early then.
00:17:16
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's that thing about, have you read the a the Adam Bloom book yet? No. which the There's a bit in there where he talks about like balloon pops. Right, yeah. So he basically says, you know, the whole thing is to like, you but you building the tension is like blowing up a balloon, right? And if the balloon pops too early,
00:17:38
Speaker
like it sort of deflates the punchline. So it's not as big of a bang. It's not as big of a bang, big of a laugh. And some people know how to use that to really brilliant effects. So like your, one of your favourites who we've discussed quite a lot, Norm McDonald. Yeah, I was just thinking that. Like one of the great things about Norm's stuff is that it's so conversational and it's so specific to his rhythm that even though he said the word that kind of constitutes a punchline. He gets a lot of mileage ah out of like mumbling shit afterwards. yeah Like you know what I mean? Where is actually another one that I like that is sort of the antithesis of Nob is Anthony Jeselnik. Yeah well he so he's completely the opposite. Yeah so um
00:18:30
Speaker
And the the great thing about him yeah is the tension is more yeah because you know that there is a rug pull. Every single joke yeah he says, and the the brilliant thing about him is you're still, a lot of the time, not 100%. It's still surprising. Yeah, exactly. well I think the fun now, once you know Jesalynx's work, right the fun with him is you know he's going to rug pull, you know he's going to do that, you go into every joke knowing that he's going to fool you, right?
Unique Styles: Jeselnik and Carr
00:19:08
Speaker
yeah What you're interested in is in what direction, so you're trying to second guess while he's talking, right? And I very rarely come up with the same direction that he does, I know where I might take it, but
00:19:23
Speaker
Yeah, because I think he does it where he he comes up with the one that we all think of. And then discards her and then discards it and goes, OK, what's a different direction? Yeah. what gets What's this essentially the same thing, or he's in the same ballpark, but it's not where they're expecting. And he's really good at that.
00:19:43
Speaker
ah But also then the other thing that you're thinking, because you know what kind of person he is, is how dark is he going to go? Yeah. like um You know, so you're looking, you're always looking for those little key words. But the tension release is bigger, I think for him. Yeah.
00:20:00
Speaker
because he is so open yeah with the fact that everything is so dumb. Yeah. Because he's like, oh, like my grandparents die 15 times a night. Yeah. Like my brother, yeah i'm like i everyone knows that these are jokes. Yes. And that therefore there is he can go more dark let me tell you and you probably know this but uh everyone knows that these are jokes not on the internet not on the internet yeah people that are fans of jesal think yeah like i can imagine him being taken out of context and people hating him oh no of course but similar to similar to jimmy car yeah that his his are the same yeah
00:20:54
Speaker
that it's it's that sort of art. These are just one-liners. These are just that like, I found a a funny play on words. yeah And it just happens that it involves a dead baby. I honestly think and this might sound this might sound bad because I do like Jimmy Carr a lot. um Or at least ah I like some of Jimmy. Obviously, there's some stuff of Jimmy Carr's where I'm like, I'll be a hipster. And I say, I prefer the older Jimmy Carr. Yeah, I'd say. But I prefer the older Jimmy Carr.
00:21:24
Speaker
yeah I prefer the older Jimmy Carr because the older Jimmy Carr had vulnerability and like a bit of humility about him. You could kind of tell, I think of it as in two phases, there's kind of like pre-plastic surgery and post-plastic surgery with Jimmy Carr. When he just looked like a sort of posh guy with plums in his mouth,
00:21:50
Speaker
you know when he first came on the scene there was that version of him and now there's a couple of dvds yeah and then there's the haunt adventurous dummy jimmy car yeah which is like now i saw the most recent one on namflix and i turned it off yeah it's it's not ideal but i mean it's not it's not even good comedy like it's not even like oh i've turned it off because But it's honestly... like It's just not that funny. No, I i find it disheartening to see him go down that route of kind of... ah start I never thought he'd do this because I thought he understood the kind of... the way things were enough to not get sucked into this stuff but he started to... the phrases like work brigade and things have started to creep into his comedy which disappoints me because I always thought he was...
00:22:40
Speaker
you know, of the alternative comedy scene. Yeah. And the idea of actually what, like, what are you mocking? Yeah. Who is the butt of the joke? But even then, like, the same with Gervais, that like, the the whole point. Yeah. um so Like some of his older stuff. Yeah. Is like, especially like his TV shows. Yeah. He knows where where the butt of the joke is.
00:23:07
Speaker
Well, it's usually about, you know, the butt of the joke, as we've said many times on this podcast about Javez and that type of thing, is that the butt of the joke used to be, aren't I an awful person for saying this, aren't I ridiculous? These are ridiculous views that I've given you, aren't. The views were there to be mocked and laughed at, mockingly in that sense. Whereas it feels like it's turned around to let's mock the actual people that the joke, the content of the jokes. Yeah, i'm I'm being criticized.
00:23:36
Speaker
therefore I'm going to make you the bow of the jack. But what's really interesting though is if just on that whole kind of work brigade thing, I know, to be honest, Stu's had material about political correctness for years. It's political correctness, gone mad shit. Exactly, this is the thing. So he's had these routines for years, going back to 2006, 2007,
00:24:00
Speaker
you know and probably even before like you know yeah I didn't get to see him before any of his recorded output because you know he stopped for a bit in the early 2000s and then when he came back on the scene 2005 was when I kind of became aware of him but ah you know he he's always had material about things you can and can't say and all that kind of stuff and that seems to be in in vogue with a certain type of older comedian now like comedians for some weird reason comedians in this country seem to get to a certain age and then just start because their views align with people of similar age to them well they do but there is clearly if you look at stewart lee there's there is clearly an alternate view even at that time
00:24:43
Speaker
yeah Yeah, there's you know like like people are lazy.
Religious Humor and Stuart Lee
00:24:47
Speaker
Yeah. And they've gone, oh, this is an easy market. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, of course they have. Especially because if they feel if they're pretending that they're being a contrarian. Yeah, it feels cynical. By saying they're kind of the unsayable. out Yeah. then But that's not you're not being a contrarian because millions of people are still following you.
00:25:11
Speaker
yeah and but he feels yeah it is it's just a it's a weird argument but anyway religion right Yeah, yeah, that from one contentious argument to another. Yeah, exactly. So this episode, like I say, there's there's a lot of reused material in this, but there's a bunch of brilliant jokes in this, right? So the opening joke later on, I'm going to talk to you, I'm going to be talking to you about how my tragic and ultimately fatal addiction to various forms of lethal illegal class A drugs has helped me to overcome my previous dependence on born again Christianity. Yeah, he's such a great job. Right. But this is an example of right, if that was a
00:25:49
Speaker
A Jeselnik joke. Yeah. Or a Jimmy Carr joke or whatever. One of those. I reckon about half of those words that have been taken out. Yeah. um And I think that's part of the sort of almost joy of Stewart Lee's stuff a lot of the time is that's still like a really great, tight joke almost, but it's only tight if Stewart Lee tells it. Yeah. Because it suits his rhythm completely.
00:26:14
Speaker
yeah exactly like if you know if you were to take jimmy car for example and have him tell that joke yeah the rhythm of it i think it'd be too many words yeah he would definitely trim it down you know place but but that's the thing like i think the like obviously we don't know exactly how should she writes well we've got a good idea from the book which yeah you know but like he's he's got the idea yeah And he like his way of doing it is, let's make it longer, rather than... Because, it like you say, it fits his tone and his pacing. Yeah. Well, it's that thing of trying... His thing has always been...
00:27:03
Speaker
Or at least it is more recent shows. Let's try and telegraph the punch line. Yeah. You know, so that you, you kind of, you know, what the punch line is going to be. You can relax and enjoy the journey. Yeah. You know what I mean? You're not waiting. There's no tension there as such. You're not waiting for the punch line. And it felt like a tight opening joke.
00:27:21
Speaker
because he actually finished the sentence. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. yeah But i just I just love the like the reversal. Airpods. Yeah. It's just not my favourite. Oh, the Airpods one's brilliant. yeah The Airpods thing. and like That's just probably my favourite joke in this. and But i as an opening joke, I really like that. And and he says, I wrote the joke 20 years ago at the time it seemed contentious.
00:27:46
Speaker
ah yeah but there's kind of a cliche of stand-up on television people say that television eats up a stand-up comedian's material but it doesn't if you just do loads of jokes that you also did on telly in the mid 90s um so again that's the stuff that we were talking about obviously there's load that might even be by design there's loads of reused material in this yeah um and obviously a lot of it like he says yeah that man he did on telly in the 90s but He knows that he follows the same paths for a lot of his jokes. It's sort of almost by design that he he calls back to the same themes and the same wordings of things, and the same because that's what his fans want. like I don't know about you, but I really enjoy new variations on the let himself go joke. Whenever he comes up with a new one of those, I enjoy that.
00:28:39
Speaker
yeah The favourite one was, oh no, I'm thinking of, oh no, yeah, it might have been the one that when we were there, where he called himself a Toby joke.
00:28:51
Speaker
yeah but that he's done that no that was uh it wasn't that what he said about adrian trials a toby jug fills with hot piss oh that might have been it actually yeah because it made me think of the the very similar joke from mazy adams yeah about kissed armor looking like a toby jug like i think it was on mock the week where he's like he just looks like Um, uh, it looks like someone's pinned a poppy. Yeah. i beach And then they said, and then they did the picture and I was like, I've never seen anything more accurate. Oh yeah. Like it's, it's so good. But yeah, like that there are a few, which I don't get. But like, what do you mean? Like references, uh,
00:29:48
Speaker
about let himself go, that I don't get the reference. So obviously I'm not going to be in on the joke. but So you don't know who the person is that he's referring himself to? Yeah, I can't remember i can't remember the people because I don't know who they were. Yeah, I mean, this there's a really good run of them. So when we've done this series, obviously we've got this episode we're talking about now and then we've got episode six, which I can't remember what that is off the top of my head. I think I've got the DVD here in front of me.
00:30:14
Speaker
cause um there's a mark of The one that I enjoy the most is Yeah, crumpled Morrissey. and Crumpled Morrissey. Oh, fucking brilliant. yeah which Speaking of Morrissey, I recently saw, did you know did you know that Harry Hill yeah was on ah Stars in Their Eyes? As Morrissey. As Morrissey. It's fucking incredible. I might have known that somewhere in the back of my mind.
00:30:44
Speaker
I was a star in their eyes. joy singing with ah Yeah, no, I can imagine that. weird Yeah, it looked. He looked really like him. Yeah, I may know of that somewhere in the back of my mind because I was a star in their eyes. Junkie is a child like I was. Yeah, I did enjoy it. Yeah. and But yeah, so tonight we'll be talking about religion. ah Religion. Ooh, the hot potato. It looked did it delicious, but it burnt my mouth.
00:31:13
Speaker
ah Which I really like, it's just a silly throw away thing but the way he performed it was so funny. There's not really anything to pick apart in that to be fair, it's just very funny. Don't worry, they're go to this right this joke I love right?
00:31:29
Speaker
but I feel like this has been stolen in different forms down the years by Ricky Gervais for other purposes, but this is... As with everything. Well, yeah, maybe. but If you are religious, don't worry. There are going to be jokes about religion tonight, but they probably won't be about your religion. They'll be about one of the other religions, you know, the ones which are wrong. Yeah. Right. And ah like I've heard... To be fair, I think that's more...
00:31:56
Speaker
that he's is's phrasing it as a joke. But actually that's just that's that's just the fact. yeah costline it is the race does not that i'm not yeah I've seen him do it in interviews and stuff as well. yeah that like um where he's like, I'm technical like technically your an atheist. ah But yeah, the thing with Colbert. you Yeah, you just believe one more God than me. Yeah, you don't believe in the other three thousand. You don't believe in the other three thousand. I just yeah yeah i just believe in one less God than you. I just don't believe in more and more. Yeah, yeah exactly. ah But what I really like about that,
00:32:40
Speaker
it's so It's a good joke, I enjoyed the joke, but then pairing it immediately with Kevin Elder dressed as the Pope, sitting on a whoopee cushion and then screaming. Yeah, the candidate liked scream. It was brilliant just because like of the obvious implication there being that religion or religious people have no sense of humour. Yeah. like I and know it was really on the nose, but I i found it really satisfying.
00:33:07
Speaker
One of them things where it's like, oh, it's funny because it's true to a certain extent. Well, do you know what, right? I would say if you were to mean if you were to meet a decent sort of rational religious person on the street, you can't say, oh, no religious people have a sense of humour. because Absolutely not. You know, there's a ton of good comedians and comedy writers who are religious people. So I'd like you know, she she was ex-wife Bridget Christie, for example. and Is she religious? Yeah, she's a ah cat, whether it's Catholicism or Christianity. I always get those two confused, but she's one of those one of those two. I don't know. if This is that's the thing that could be considered contentious. But there is literally only one difference between Catholicism and Christianity. What is it? m It's that in
00:34:00
Speaker
and It's called the, ah, it's the sacrament or something. Transubstantiation, that's what it is. Okay, right, that's the difference. It that Catholics believe that when they take though the body and blood of Christ yeah in form of wine and bread, that it turns into the body and the blood of Christ.
00:34:31
Speaker
as it goes down your neck and christians don't believe that christians don't believe that okay just um i mean there is more to it than that okay thanks like the the beliefs it's the rest of it is is method of how they kind of uh practice their faith, yeah but in terms of actual core beliefs, yeah that's the biggest one. Fair enough. No, that makes sense. um but yeah so like you know I think the point being that on ah on a kind of global scale, if you were to look at the the
00:35:15
Speaker
the heads of those religion and the people who kind of set the doctrine and kind of say, what's what and what you should follow and what you shouldn't. I think what the point is that at that level, religion takes itself too seriously. Whereas if you were to meet one on one, a religious person in the street, chances are they'd have a sense of humor about it. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? It's more the the organization. Yeah, there are people that that you meet in the street like my my old church wouldn't find anything funny. Well exactly but that's it's because it's and the institutions don't find things funny. Yeah. But I reckon if you were to talk to one or two people. Yeah there would be a certain number of people within the church yeah. They'd find that funny.
00:35:58
Speaker
Exactly. yeah i But yes, I don't know if I'm right to, but so I'm the right person to be doing jokes about religion. ah In the last few months, I've become religious, I've started to believe in God and creationism and intelligent design. And the reason that I now believe in God and creationism and intelligent design is because of Professor Richard Dawkins. Yeah. Obviously, sort of very famously noted atheist.
Critique of Religious Authority
00:36:23
Speaker
When I look at something as complex and intricate and beautiful as Professor Richard Dawkins, I don't think that that could have evolved by chance. Professor Richard Dawkins was put there god by by God to test us like fossils and facts. Like, the thing that I like about that joke is because it actually just, like, just because you're right.
00:36:49
Speaker
yeah I mean, we should probably say, just in case there's other people that listening that are Christian, that we believe that he is right. It doesn't mean that he's not a fucking annoying twat. Oh, yeah. im Like, like ah so similar to Christopher Hitchens, that's just like, I mean, God rest his soul, but like, yeah,
00:37:19
Speaker
It was um so similar to your face that it's like you can be right. yeah And when I was younger, I was all like, but especially like when I when i stopped believing, yeah I went the other way. yeah and was massively into dark intentions, like Gervais, everything was just like, oh, I wanted to be... Yeah, but you were pitting it to yourself because it was cool or whatever, like it's... Well, partly, it was partly because I was trying to get back at them. Yeah, exactly. And it felt that sort of thing.
00:38:01
Speaker
But but was your version of rebe yeah, when you put yeah when you when you publish a book called The God Delusion, yeah, like you're gonna like you're doing that to prevent. Yeah, you do that to provoke you get you get what's coming to you. Yeah, exactly. And now I'm much more like living my life. Yeah, of course. i I've got to be I don't have the energy to give a shit anymore. to be Yeah, that's partly it. It's like, oh, well,
00:38:31
Speaker
does it? i the I think the thing that gets me is is as an institution, the Catholic Church. Yeah. But that's purely because the way I see is as individuals, are you hurting people? Yeah. No. Okay, great.
00:38:49
Speaker
Yeah, well, like, you know, it's that it's that difference between religion as faith and religion is like weaponized ideology. ah Yeah. Do you know what I mean? and Yeah, exactly. It's how you're using it and why you're using it and what you're using it for, for me. But, you know, listen, I suppose I'm going to preface this entire thing because we are talking about a really contentious subject, which yeah You know, I'm i'm not as articulate as Stu when it comes to these things. Obviously, I'm i'm not going to be able to, and we're we're also talking in real time, none of this is rehearsed, right? so yeah that be They may occasionally be there. But that won't be lack of nuance. Yeah, of course it will.
00:39:27
Speaker
and But also, I must say that I myself am also a lapsed Catholic. I used to be an older boy and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, I have experience with religion. I grew up in religion and then just decided probably similar to you when I was a teenager. and Not and a negative experience of Catholicism. Well, no, listen, listen it did you know,
00:39:49
Speaker
it wasn't I didn't get any of those things that people talk about happening in the church it wasn't any of that it was more just do you know what it was more just a dull obligation that you had to do yeah like I did I did you know I did I was an altar boy because you got paid for it Oh, did you? Yeah. Sometimes just in sweets, like if it was a regular service or whatever, you'd get some sweets or something at the end. But if you were doing a few rules. Yeah, you did take sweets from Amanina. Yeah. um But listen, in fairness to him, he was purely giving giving those sweets out for services rendered and they're not the type of services that we're talking about. so yeah Was it funny to receive sweets from Amanina in and and a
00:40:37
Speaker
Bishops out there. Well, no, because at the time, like, you were you were sort of taught to defer to these people. So, like, we didn't I didn't make fun of religion as a child, because I genuinely thought that if I did, I'd burn for it. I almost. So my mother-in-law, my in-laws are Catholic. Yeah. And my mother-in-law once said, oh, we're going to meet at our house.
00:41:04
Speaker
yeah after but it'll have to be at a certain time yeah because the words he used were because the bishop's coming for tea. I for whole, that meant that the bishop was going to their house at the same time as we're going to be there because he's coming for tea. yeah And I was like stressed and like speaking to rates like What if I say something out of turn? yeah like I can't help myself. I'm going to have to ask him if he can only move diagonally. Amazing. like He probably gets that question far too much in his life. yeah But then it just turned out when we got there that what she meant was winning to me. I think it was Easter.
00:41:59
Speaker
tea or something. yeah We're having it later because the bishop's coming to the church for tea. soly today and i And I was genuinely like quite disappointed that I wasn't going to get to meet the bishop because I is like genuinely gave myself up for it. And Rachel looked to me and went, you're actually good, aren't you? yeah I was like, yeah. So now it's a common phrase in R. They're like, oh, the bishop's coming for tea.
00:42:28
Speaker
Listen, I, said i yeah as a teenager, I met the bishop on many occasions right before I gave him a good old bashing.
00:42:39
Speaker
Anyway, no, go on and deserved. Yeah, it did. I flew too close to the sun. Yeah. Anyway, right.
00:42:55
Speaker
And then we get into your favourite bit, my favourite bit. Yeah. You know, when you think about it, most jokes about religion aren't really about doctrine or dogma, they're about things like the language of religion. For example, last week it wasn't. It didn't happen last week.
Deconstructing Jokes
00:43:12
Speaker
Right. What I love about this routine, we're gonna I'm going to say the words and then I'll tell you, right? so Yeah. For example, last week it wasn't. It didn't happen last week. I was walking through Rifo Airport. I wasn't. This hasn't happened. I made it up.
00:43:26
Speaker
last week I was walking through Heathrow airport well I've never been there or even been on a plane I don't know what it is but the rest of this joke is going to be involved in planes so I've set it in this place so last week I was walking through Heathrow airport and I saw an advert I didn't see anything at all I wasn't there I wasn't there I saw nothing I wasn't even there who's walking through Heathrow Airport and I saw an advert for one of those evangelical groups they have now and it said you won't get to heaven on a 737 and I thought no I won't but I will get to Reykjavik where I understand there's a museum housing the world's largest collection of animal penises right so this is a perfect example of
00:44:09
Speaker
a joke where it is literally all about the setup, the punchline is nothing pointless, right? It's funny because in this context it sets up a sketch, right? um So that's okay, it sets up the kind of thing of Kevin Elden standing there smoking a pike with a funny beard on looking at the massive whale penis, right? Yeah. And then obviously the whale comes in at the side of him and just starts laughing at him or whatever.
00:44:34
Speaker
right so that was funny so in that context okay it's funny but if if you think about it just for the people in the room or like in the context of in a stand-up set that whole joke um is just about at the end of every line or every new line him telling you how contrived the joke is That's literally all it's for. It's not for anything else. Uh, so you can go back over it, right? For example, last week I wasn't, it didn't happen last week. So there line one, he's questioned line one, right? I was walking through Heathrow airport. I wasn't, this hasn't happened. I made it up line two. He's questioned line two. Last week I was walking through Heathrow airport. So this is where he's hes stopped questioning that bit. Cause he's already questioned it. Yeah. Right.
00:45:31
Speaker
Well, I've never been there or even been on a plane. and So do you know what I mean? He's done it again. ah I don't know what it is, but the rest of this joke is going to be involved in planes. So I've set it in this place. So last week I was walking through you for airport and I saw an advert. I didn't see anything at all. So every time he adds a new element to the joke, he questions it. Yeah. Um, ultimately making it not about the joke. No, no, no. Yeah. The joke is about the fact that he's made
00:46:02
Speaker
he's made what is essentially quite a ah banal a mundane observation like not necessarily observation but as in the situation oh right yeah yeah just him putting himself in an airport yeah so that he can make the joke about he can't get to have nose having a 737 yeah 747 or whatever it is um that makes sense Yeah. But he's made it something better because you like you wouldn't get anything fun. Yeah. Oh, I was in an airport. Yeah. Well, exactly. like But it's also it's you know, it's doing that thing that he always does, which is just to make fun of the contrived nature of stand up. Yeah, I mean, it does annoy me as someone who whose material is always like
00:47:00
Speaker
fantastical stories that seem unbelievable yeah i definitely have had people think that i'm just lying once because they're like well that didn't really happen honestly if i if i look back at my the current show that i've just done that like i said to you i might not end up doing it again i might just move on to the next one who who knows but yeah the show that i've just done if i look back on it and this is where I think I've ripped you off to be honest with you because that's how what this is what I felt about your first show in parts right and the thing is all of it's true with your first show or the majority of it's true or at least the the the sort of the undercurrent of it is true right yeah whereas with mine
00:47:43
Speaker
You know how you kind of wrote your show so that each of the sections contributed a line to the bit at the end where you did the prayer? Yeah. I effectively stole that, right, that approach to do my poem at the end. Oh, yeah. Right.
00:48:03
Speaker
ah And I contrived certain bits in the stories so that a line in the poem would rhyme. Yeah, 100 percent. Like, i yeah, yeah, like I will admit this is a a podcast exclusive. that About six people will understand. I never bought Chris. No, yeah. ones fall That was a story that I'd heard someone say. Yeah. Whilst I was at uni.
00:48:39
Speaker
so you could read the And I was like, I need something to fit with Trespass. yeah For some reason, all I thought of was Trespass. But it did make me think of that story that someone said that they'd done back in the 90s or whatever. Yeah, exactly. so So it was like, oh, that's a funny a thing, so that may that makes sense. but but and But it's to what degree did the audience know whether... Yeah, well, that's it. It's it's about the conviction of it. At the end of the day, in terms of the overall narrative of the thing, and it's the same with mine, it was definitely the same with yours, is that the undercurrent of all of this was true.
00:49:23
Speaker
Yeah and you just manufactured a couple of bits like I like yeah with with mine it was mainly it was the rod hole section right so I had a whole section in mine about ah hallucinate in rod hole and cave harris fucking each other in the back of an ambulance right um but I thought that was real. You thought that bit was real. That was the only bit you believed in, right? But and je like really what actually happened at that time was, and I remember that i remember this, I i have ah an image of it in my mind, but also my mum told me about this. She said the ambulance people told her about it. She wasn't allowed in the ambulance. But yeah when I was deprived of oxygen and like delirious and hallucinating in the back of the ambulance,
00:50:07
Speaker
I kept calling the ambulance people firemen because and at the time I'd been watching a hell of a lot of League of Gentlemen.
Aging and Comedy
00:50:18
Speaker
Right. And that was a line that was often repeated in the job centre by Mark Gatiss as Mickey when they asked him what he wanted to be when he, when you know, when he got a job like firemen. I haven haven't really watched it. I've watched a little bit.
00:50:34
Speaker
Right, i to be honest with you, right, so I'm going to start a new podcast all about the League of Gentlemen purely so I can drag you through it. The only one the only one that I know is the one that everyone knows.
00:50:47
Speaker
well
00:50:50
Speaker
the um local shop for local people yeah yeah there's nothing for you here and um and the fact that my dad to which proves that we're basically the same person yeah uh as soon as they did the kiss at my him and my stepmom's wedding yeah when i love death you're my wife now did you do that at your wedding no i wouldn't you think she would let me Listen, they can't stop you when you've started. one now yeah No, that's fair enough. and
00:51:27
Speaker
so na ier But this is what I'm saying anyway. We've gone a long way around about talking about the contrivances of stand-up, right? So essentially, as as we always do, Joe, we were like, yeah, we can bash this out in an hour. We cannot. earlier No chance.
00:51:42
Speaker
But anyway, so he's making fun of that thing that we all do. You know what I mean? Which he himself does. So he's having his cake and eating it. But like I say, it sets up the funny sketch about the the whale penis, which I like because obviously it's like a recurring sketch throughout. There's like a narrative bit to it. Yeah.
00:52:02
Speaker
I like the punchline to that that sketch where obviously it's all the all the whales gathered around laughing at the human penis. Yeah, which is yeah I find that really funny. Especially as somebody who's got a shit ton of jokes about how small their penis is. I was going to say, I just thought you were going to think it's going to cause small penis. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's, you know, listen, it's one of those things. If I was 20 years old, there's no way I'd go out in public holding a microphone.
00:52:30
Speaker
No matter what, yeah in comparison to a whale. Oh yeah, of course. she did But what I'm saying is, as a 20-year-old, this is why I could never have done stand-up as a young man, because I couldn't be self-depreciating enough. I would have been mortified to talk about that on stage, but as a 38-year-old man with four kids and like I've been married for such a long time, I don't give a shit.
00:52:54
Speaker
It doesn't matter. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, nice entirely. And that's where I kind of, you know, Stu's got this thing about saying this, ah the older he gets, the funnier it gets because he's just more and more decrepit. Yeah. Like, and I agree with that. ah Anyway, right. So obviously, they do the whale sketch. and And he gets back to the whole thing about the mu the most jokes about religion. They're not about dogma. They're about things like the fact that people in religious clothes look funny.
00:53:21
Speaker
ah He didn't use the word clothes, he used garb, but I find it an odd word, but that's just my that's my problem, not his. ah There isn't anything that wouldn't be funnier if it were not being carried out by someone dressed as a priest or a Buddhist or a rabbi. Take, for example, the funniest Laurel and Hardy sketch that you can think of. And and it's a routine where Stan is having a hot dog and Ollie is behind one of these photo booth things where you put your face through the hole.
00:53:48
Speaker
Stan squeezes the hot dog and it flies out of the bone and goes into all his mouth. Remember that? Very funny, right? And then in split screen you have this sketch playing, which is not the actual sketch because I imagine it would have cost a shit ton of money to buy. They've recreated it with Kevin Elder and Paul Portner. Now imagine that, ah except this time Ollie is dressed in the robes of a bishop of the Greek Orthodox Church.
00:54:13
Speaker
And then this is where they get a bit that for me I find really fascinating because I ah did you know i didn't realise to what extent he kind of had forgotten Paul Merton was in this. yeah and You know where it's it's Paul Merton saying that the I really enjoyed really enjoyed the sea the seaside Greek ocque for Orthodox Church bishop with a sausage in his mouth sketch. It's one of the great silent comedies and I think it's amazing. But the best thing about these sketches is him repeating that these days they would have just done that with CGI.
00:54:49
Speaker
yeah oh something. ah Yeah these days you'd have to do that with CGI or something but back then they had really had you it che he had to wear the actual costume which obviously comes back in at the end of the credits and stuff. and yeah But again it's not it's a case of another thing where I don't know what happened whether or not he wrote the stand-up and performed the stand-up obviously at the Malpe club or whatever in Hackney cut it up and inserted sketches that related to the material he was doing because there's no real punchline to that.
Integrating Sketches in Stand-Up
00:55:28
Speaker
Do you know what I mean? Yeah. There's no there's no punchline to it. It's just the punchline to it is the sketch. Yeah, I didn't know whether he'd written stand up material to justify some sketch ideas that he had, or whether he'd written, you know, the other way around.
00:55:47
Speaker
I'm not quite sure kind of how that panned out. and But yeah, most jokes about religion, they're not not about doctrine and dogma. They're about things like marketing, Catholicism, for example. And this is where he does the routine about the pope-shaped lollies, yeah which obviously we've covered from 90s comedian from 90s comedian. Yeah. So this is this is a fairly big chunk. I did like the performance of this, just especially the bits where he said they did good. Catholics think, ah, the Pope's just died. Like I felt the pauses in those bits. Yeah. I don't know why I felt they were better in this version of it than the 90s comedian. But yeah, please you know, it's the same routine. And it's his delivery.
00:56:38
Speaker
that is always that's the possibly the word the sentence that i think of yeah when i think of stuart lee which one i think um the the pope's just died yeah that's like a sugar effigy of his face do you know the one i always think of when whenever he says it whenever stuart lee pops into my head uh there's There's two things that I think of, one of them I'm not going to spoil for you because you haven't watched it yet. Right, OK. But then the other one a is from the Joe Pasquale routine. Yeah. Where he says ah he's talking about Jimmy Carr and Jim Davidson, and he says if Jim Davidson can steal your your material, it's probably time to start thinking about writing something else.
00:57:30
Speaker
Yeah. Like, I don't know why, but whenever, if I'm ever out and Stuart pops into my brain, that's usually the first line that pops in there. I don't know why, because it's not even my favourite routine, but it just, that's the line that sticks with me. ah But he didn't, there is an expanded bit here where he sort of says, and there were lollipops of John Paul's face and it's because he was poor.
00:57:52
Speaker
and I think there may have been lollipops of that man's face anyway, because he had a lickable face. He had his little lickable face. And if you were a puppy and you saw that face, you'd be compelled to lick it. ah But the new pope doesn't have a lickable face. Pope Benedict is a more serious, harsh figure. and And to be fair, this is like a, you know, it's that little, it's using that existing routine as that little segue into this bit about the pope's shoes.
00:58:23
Speaker
ah He's a much more harsh figure. I don't think you make lollipops of the first Pope Benedict. I don't know how you would merchandise him.
00:58:33
Speaker
and I would dish issue a set of warning stickers you could put on bottles of bleach to stop children drinking them. Whose face is that? You know, put Benedict, whatever it is, 15th, 14th, 16th. 16th. Yeah, I can't read Roman numerals. don't ah and he said the The bit in this routine that stands out for me is where the body says, what does that mean? And Stuart goes, poison. Yeah. hey What does that mean?
00:59:00
Speaker
Poison. Yeah, like that that's the bit that never never gets me. ah He's a very serious pope. He's very hardline. He's already managed to this. This is a great joke. He's already managed to alienate the world's Muslims and Jews and native South Americans and homosexuals and AIDS researchers and human rights activists and doctors. And he's also reasserted the primary, primary objective, spiritual truth in the face of what he sees as post enlightenment wave of secular rationalism.
00:59:31
Speaker
But on the positive side, do you know what I mean? like It's that thing of, yeah i I've stolen that approach. and should rank yeah think I've stolen that approach so many times.
00:59:43
Speaker
where it's how many how many different words how many different variations on the thing can i say in the setup um yeah for me to then at the end of it have three words as a punch line do you know what i mean yeah how big can i build the setup for a tiny tiny punch line um because the whole like he does a whole monologue after that but the entire punchline of that is but on the positive side do you know what i mean so it's
01:00:15
Speaker
I just I love that approach. And it's one that I kind of keep coming back to all the time. Pope Benedict XVI was also reintroduced to formal papal wear and item of clothing, which had been removed by Pope John Paul II in the 70s. And he shows these red shoes. yeah Now, to me, other than that joke, we've just talked about where you know, but on the positive side, this ah I was never a massive fan of this routine.
01:00:43
Speaker
Really? Because it's just him talking about shoes, right? And it's not like there's nothing that nothing that ever jumped out of me has been like incredibly brilliant, like. No, it's brilliant. Aside from aside from the bit where he says he does the whole list of things again, it's interesting that while he was alienating all the world's Muslims and Jews and Native Americans, South Americans, homosexuals, AIDS researchers, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. blah uh he was wearing these shoes and then put the bit that when he says which makes it rather delightful yeah like that that bit for me i i
Comedy and Religious Critique
01:01:20
Speaker
was bent double laughing at that today when i watched it earlier ah the whole thing from when he shows the shoes yeah to the end of the sketch yeah of the wizard of oz yeah is my favorite
01:01:39
Speaker
um It's what I can see as the longest yeah and most favourite gay joke. all right fardo yeah yeah yeah It's literally the whole point is is him calling part the Pope and the entire Catholic Church gay.
01:01:58
Speaker
yeah yeah the bit bit of dorothy yeah and the bit The bit that I really liked or there there's one i like there's one line that I really like where he says, I don't know if you can really determine someone's sexuality from just asking them questions about the kind of things they like and what they would like to wear.
01:02:15
Speaker
yeah So, like, I always love the subtext of this is that if if you want to know if someone's gay, just to ask them if they're gay. Like, yeah what whatever. Like, you know, you wouldn't you don't need to insinuate based on the things that they like, which I know. But he is. But of course he is. Yeah. that Well, this is why I'm saying and this. is This is why it's interesting is that there's no there's no brilliantly defined punch line in it without beyond that bit that we talked about before.
01:02:46
Speaker
but But it's that subtext of, I'm calling the Catholic Church gay, and i making it I'm I'm saying it's not right to make assumptions on someone's sexuality based on a thing that I wear, but I am doing that exact thing. yeah ah But then like, the the reason I think it exists, and this is why I'm interested in this, is whether or not It was this way around is this is one of my favorite sketches in the whole thing. Yeah absolutely both i was gonna say like Because I love Jerry side of it So much like oh, you know about um The Joe affixer one
01:03:31
Speaker
Yeah. So obviously, um Jerry Sadevitz, as Jimmy Sable. Of course it is. ah newah recognized what I it was. I was like, I know it's not Paul Putner or like the other like thing. but I was like, I recognise the face. It's such a good Savile impression. impression ah If anyone's going to do it. yeah and you know he's he's I think he's been quite outspoken about Savile down the years anyway, as Jerry said of it. so yeah you know Even before all the scandals and stuff came out. so
01:04:09
Speaker
But yeah, we've had a lovely, lovely letter from a lovely young man. Pope Benedict XVI writes, dear Jim, ever since I was a young boy in the Hitler Youth, yeah, I have been fascinated by the film The Wizard of Oz. My favourite character was Dorothy, and especially her red shoes. Today as Pope, I have a pair of red shoes of my own, but can you fix it for me to wear my red shoes and do a dance on the yellow brick road with all of my priest friends? And then he goes,
01:04:37
Speaker
Ich bin ein Grossekorten mit Wieben. I don't know what it means. I haven't looked up the translation. Ich bin ein, er, nah, be, I am one. Ich bin ein mein Klossen.
01:05:01
Speaker
I'm going to ask my son about this because he's doing German at school and he's very good at it. Say it again. ah ben a nifin ein groer courton ma vian cartton covered him with a ca yeah
01:05:23
Speaker
curtain
01:05:26
Speaker
code Ich bin ein Große, Koten. Yeah. This is Wiben. Z-W-I-E-B-E. Yes, Wiben, yeah. Are you Google Translated right now? Yeah, did not match any document. Oh, never mind. I have misspelled it probably. Maybe they're not allowed to tell you what it means. Metters Wiben is one word.
01:05:57
Speaker
but the place is now then now then i was about that then put benedict the 16th your papal edict is my command is it not jab it um and then obviously there's there's the dancing and all that mrs ryman is middle too Okay but oh Yeah, it could be anything I don't fight nonsense it could be but I I just love it because I love Jerry side of it I think it's a brilliant impression. I think it's a very funny sketch and and Jerry side of it has one of my face. He has some of my favorite lines like ever This is what's the best way to make a woman an orgasm who cares
01:06:53
Speaker
They had a really brilliant job, Chris. My mother thinks I'm at King's Cross right now buying drugs off a prostitute. If she knew I was on the BBC she'd kill me.
01:07:09
Speaker
I'm actually a bisexual necrophiliac. I'll shag anything that doesn't move.
01:07:18
Speaker
Oh, God.
01:07:22
Speaker
She doesn't shame me at all. He makes himself by using the n-word. ah Jerry Sinemitz offends everyone. um He's like South Park in that regard. yeah you know He takes the approach of, um will I will challenge everyone's sensibilities, not just. Yeah, absolutely. Do you know what I mean? I think it's one of those things, everyone will come. I think i can um like I can understand both sides of it. Listen, I can absolutely understand people being offended by Jerry Sadevitz because that is his aim. Yeah, he's doing his job. It's whether you like that sort of. But what I would also suggest as well is that if you are going to see Jerry Sadevitz, surely, he's he's not a mainstream comedian. and a
01:08:15
Speaker
person to go expecting to be offended. He's not someone, you know, he's not someone who everyone knows so you're not just going to wander in off the street and watch him. Surely if you if you seek out Jerry Sadevitz to watch him you know what you're getting. Yeah and then you can't compete when you get it.
01:08:34
Speaker
In theory, yeah. I mean, like I say, there's a different thing to that. Obviously, the whole thing that happened with him in Edinburgh a couple of years ago, whichever side of the fence you sit on with that, ah you know, it's not for me to say. But, you know, the Pleasants booked Jerry Sadevitz. They gave Jerry Sadevitz a platform there. they They knew what they were getting. They were getting Jerry Sadevitz. Yeah, exactly.
01:08:56
Speaker
so but that They're not innocent parties in this, like they know. who he is whether or not you agree with the material the knock mainstream yeah but he was known by theleaasance they knew who jerry saids well like say whether or not you agree with the material he did at that time and the things that he said is not, I suppose, the point.
01:09:20
Speaker
you know, because that that could be said about any of his tours that he's ever done. And about several comedians, we've had not just him. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's it's I find I find it interesting. I find the debate interesting when someone like Jerry Sadevitz, who's not a household name and who is probably, in a you know, I don't want to speak on behalf of what kind of, you know, situation
Controversy in Comedy
01:09:45
Speaker
he's in. But let's just say he's probably not a millionaire like Ricky Gervais.
01:09:48
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, to to come out against someone like Jerry Sadevitz and say, this isn't acceptable, you should be banned from this venue, blah, blah, blah, blah. But then and Ricky Gervais continues to have a platform and say the things that he says, which, are you know, arguably just as damaging in certain contexts. So yeah, anyway, let's not back it about that. We've done that to death. Funny sketch. Love Jerry's side of it. That's all I've got to say on the matter. But yeah, so then- Is it following to the rest of the- You what? Is that the same sketch where where it becomes, um or is there a bit in between when it becomes actually does the Wizard of Oz?
01:10:37
Speaker
No, it just follows in. ah Yeah, that's the bit for me. Follow the yellow brick road where they're singing the song. I will be thinking of that more for longer than I should. There's no place like Rome. Yeah, there's no place like Rome. ah beautiful it's great isn't it it's great um but yeah so then after after this sketch it kind of segues into the bit that we were talking about before the bit that we've seen uh if jesus is the answer what is the question
01:11:12
Speaker
He does that whole routine and again it's um another version of that thing with the with the Boeing 737 joke where he says last Sunday at 6 30 and he says well it wasn't last Sunday it was 20 years ago this happened okay this was 20 years ago last Sunday at six right so he's you know he's again he's he's deconstructing it while he's telling it yeah but it's it's that thing about and this my favorite one is genuinely the first one because I think that's the one that has the biggest impact and once you know once you know the routine they all fall into this pattern but where the guy says um the answer is jesus now what is the question and i said to him the question for which role and it's just the words for which role followed by a pause and it's oh it's perfect and it's so good as it should be because he's been working on this routine for 20 years like he's done this routine yeah this is his club set basically like this is
01:12:09
Speaker
Yeah, you know when he goes to do like a one-off 20 minutes at some benefit or something like that It'll be this routine that he does. Yeah and So, you know, I really like that but the bit that he kind of expands it with ah Is With where he brings out the big plane Yeah and You know where he sort of says
01:12:37
Speaker
Where is it now? Let me just find out. Yeah, so he kind of gets into ah a bit of a discourse with the evangelical guy on his doorstep and says, the evangelist says, I did try to warn you. And and he says, what do you mean you tried to warn me? Stop interrupting me. You are a semi-fictional character, which I have created. Because he's warned him by saying it doesn't work.
01:13:02
Speaker
Yeah, it would it wouldn't work to retell this story in the way that you're trying to tell it. and And he basically says, he said, that's right, semi fictional. I have a basis in fact, 20 years ago, but you didn't behave like this. And he says, no, I know, but my anger's been festering.
01:13:21
Speaker
Which is great. and You know, he says, I've built this routine up over 20 years. We worked on it together, you and me. We've built it up. ah We've got a whole set of colon responses and you improvise it within certaint certain Gevelin delineated parameters. Now look at where we are.
01:13:38
Speaker
were in the position that where there is no escape to all intents and purposes what's happening now does not constitute entertainment. And I said luckily in the in the edit at this point I cut to a film item.
01:13:53
Speaker
So like, that's the bit where I really, I love the newer tellings of old jokes, because he brings them into the context. yeah bringing it So he is doing the same routine, he's doing the same jokes, but he's bringing them into the context of what he's doing now. And and and the best part about that is that whole thing of you know, just having this sort of goal to say, and I told this fictional character 20 years ago, don't worry in the edit, I'll cut to a sketch. um Yeah. I just I just love the fact that he's presented that here. And then obviously it's cut to the whales giggling at the human penis. Yeah. Which, you know, kind of caps off that whole narrative.
01:14:39
Speaker
ah And when it cuts back in, he says, look, we've had a lot of fun tonight, haven't we?
Comedy's Existential Nature
01:14:44
Speaker
Laughing and sneering at the trivial aspects of religion. But it's time to try and nail something serious. And and then he starts talking about like faith schools. and yeah He says, David Cameron said that he understands sharp elbow and middle class parents who lie about their religious beliefs to get their children into faith schools. And that's a typical Cameron move.
01:15:07
Speaker
ah He says I call him the weather cock David the weather cock Cameron I call him the weather cock for two reasons one because he spins In the prevailing wind of public opinion like a weather cock and second reason I call him the weather cock David the weather cock Cameron Is because I often wonder whether he's got a cock or not which sorry Arguably the better a the better punch line is the first one the second one's just purely for for giggles which is yeah which I really like about it. It's just a silly kind of childish. But then it like he does this thing that he always does where he gets to a punch line and then he just carries on talking about it
01:15:49
Speaker
yeah until he runs it into the ground. So whether or not it'd just be a little green shoot that would spring into action when one of his advisors decided it was time for him to call a snap erection.
01:16:02
Speaker
And then the crowd groans. And monitors the audience. honey the The crowd groans and he says, can you hear them can you hear the people booing? That was your favourite bit, wasn't it? The viewer at home. You went, I liked it when he mixed up the words election and erection. That was satire. Still still my favourite. It reminded me of of Brighton when we went to see Ben Carter. Oh, yeah.
01:16:29
Speaker
and he add and he had the half, and he had the camel cost, the front half of the camel costume yeah on, and he was playing for ages. yeah Just turned around and goes, this camel costume's just a front, innit? It's such a good joke. and And Rachel laughed louder than anything she's ever laughed at before. More than I've ever heard her laugh.
01:16:59
Speaker
yeah And I messaged him before, afterwards, going genuinely thing. And he was like, I'm genuinely really mad that that's the thing that she found funniest. That is honestly, that is such a good joke. It's very Lee-esque. These are actually the, like, a proper joke.
01:17:22
Speaker
yeah isn't the thing that he wants you to laugh at no of course but it's still a great joke oh yeah it's a great joke but but but yeah like I know what I know what you mean, though. like And it's a similar thing with Stu is like he, you know, he kind of almost admonishes people for laughing at the actual jokes, as opposed to the bits that he finds funny. But so he started talking about faith schools and he says, what makes him with a religious belief necessarily a good educator? The idea of religious education, it makes about as much sense as handing over to special interest religious groups, all the nation's dog training schools. And then obviously,
01:17:57
Speaker
yeah it does the sketch and this these things are why it kind of makes me wonder whether or not the two go hand in hand or he wrote the stand up to facilitate the sketches but i for reasons i'm not going to get into i always get really uncomfortable watching sketches that have got steven kamos in them um i'm not going to get into that right now that's not yeah not for me to say but i didn't really like the miles jump bit Yeah. and where Where he gets them to kind of attack. It's who I would cast. yeah Oh, yeah. think he's a Miles Jupp is a superbly sort of underrated comic actor. Obviously, he's a brilliant stand up as well. But yeah, just as a comic actor, he's very, very funny.
01:18:42
Speaker
ah And then obviously it so segues into the the Quaker sketch with Kevin Elden and Simon Munnery showing how to make oats and chocolate. I think just an excuse for them two to be naked. but for I got that impression. like like you know it's it's a bum joke and it really it's just yeah look kind is and yeah which I find very funny and I'm i'm here for that absolutely it does work though that's the thing click and then obviously it kind of
01:19:23
Speaker
You know, it goes it goes back to tries to go back to the dog school. And he says we have to stop the sketch there at this point is about to go into an Islamic dog training school. And this was going to be like dogs being put in planes to fly towards commercial targets. ah But the BBC had anxiety about this not weirdly because of the idea of equating Islam with terrorism. They were worried that there was a cultural taboo about dogs in Islam and they didn't want it to look provocative.
01:19:48
Speaker
But then the producer said to me, can you get round it in some way? Because we've already hired the dogs and the planes have been made. And then obviously brings out the plane that he basically says they were going to put a chihuahua in a balaclava inside it. ah So the problem was, it's very hard to actually find out what the definite position of Islam is in dogs. And he's done this sort of stuff.
01:20:10
Speaker
You know, the the whole point of this bit is, as ah as a country and as a collective shared kind of pool of knowledge, we don't know enough about Islam. No, yeah. To be able to make a joke about it. 100%. You know, and he's, he kind of gets he gets into this whole rant, and this is the bit where he loses it and just smashes up the planes and stuff. and Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I found this stuff funny because it was it was that thing of sort of he was again having his cake and eating it talking about uh how could you do a joke about this religion and not about that religion and and blah blah blah blah which like i say i do i do find it but then he you know he sort of says um
01:20:56
Speaker
you know he says about with catholic Catholicism it's very different if you want to do a sketch about hamsters in Catholicism you just write to the Vatican and go watch a position on hamsters and they go they're great we love them as long as they believe in transubstantiation and original sin and don't use condoms.
01:21:11
Speaker
yeah which is quite a funny joke but you know he says there isn't an islamic equivalent um it's hard to find out what the position is of islam on any any kind of given subject it's difficult to do a joke about islam because most people don't really know enough about it you know to be able to do it sophisticated the options are limited so you end up falling back on the most perfunctory and unpleasant obvious stereotypes And then he you know he drops into doing this thing about Abu Hamza and shouting about Abu Hamza having hooks for hands. Looking like a Bond villain. ah you know are you Are you satisfied now? Is that what you wanted? And you know and obviously he smashes up the plans.
01:21:53
Speaker
and and then he goes back after he smashed up the planes he says so i said to the evangelist can i have another guest so he's obviously he's got all this winding way thing about why he's talking about Catholicism and not any other religion and then he's gone back to that original sketch and and one of the best bits of this for me is where he says uh you obviously think it's very clever to be sarcastic don't you and i said no
01:22:22
Speaker
He said, is what many think the fact that if it if it was mine, I'd have cut it there. Yeah, well, exactly. But this is but then but this isn't. But this is true. That's the difference. though And push it. You know, and then when he saw it, he explains it and he says it sort of happened. The guy came to my door. It's 20 odd years ago and he did say to me, the answer is Jesus, what is the question? But I didn't say any of those things. I just went, I don't know, I'm not really interested and went back to bed.
01:22:52
Speaker
And then over the next two decades, I gradually thought of a number of amusing things that I could have said if I was really funny in real life. But only obviously within this contrived and flattering TV environment. So that's all it was. Just a joke. A piece of nothing. Good night. Right. now And what I wanted to say was that that last bit where he said.
01:23:14
Speaker
and If I was really funny in real life, rather than only within this contrived and flattering TV environment. So that was all it was, just a joke, just a piece of nothing, right? The sort of the existential sort of ennui that he managed to instill in that sentence yeah is me, every time I'm either going to or finishing a gig.
01:23:42
Speaker
Right. So basically, what'll happen is for for the benefit of the listener, what will happen is every time I do a gig at some point, either in the lead up to it or when I'm finished, I'll text Joe and tell him that I think I'm done and I'm going to quit.
01:23:59
Speaker
right and usually daily before that or you know it will happen outside of the confines of a gig as well when i'm just thinking about writing or thinking about how much i've not got any funny ideas right i've just seen i'll say it i mean even i'll say it right like if i'm just seeing a new fin taylor now your video is posted or whatever and i'm just like
01:24:26
Speaker
Why do I bother? Outstanding. Yeah, this is it. And I've got to be honest, I get a lot of this existential sort of on way every time I watch a new Stu thing. Well, I say a new Stu thing, it's not new to me, but every time we do another one of these and I, you know, we watch the thing in preparation to talk about it, I get that same feeling. Yeah. Because I kind of look at it and I think to myself, I'm not going to get to that level, I don't think. So why you bother?
01:24:54
Speaker
Most 99% of his arm. No, of course. but so you know yeah And that that's the thing you see. but that that's where like So for me,
01:25:06
Speaker
that what that last line was the most relatable bit of this whole thing for me. Yeah. Like I don't, you know, I don't have massively strong opinions on religion either way here and there. The jokes are funny. I like that, you know, I like that he's interested in it enough to talk about it. And I like the things that he has to say about it. I find them amusing. My opinions aren't in any way strong about it. I don't really get that much. But whenever he talks about the specific issues which you know it's niche because obviously ah I don't know what percentage of his audience will be other comedians but the bits that really get to me and the bits that I really identify with where he starts talking about the difficulties of doing stand-up
01:25:52
Speaker
Yeah. and Which I know is, you know, on um some sort of metatextual level, what all of his stuff's about anyway. Yeah, because it's him struggling to talk about a topic.
Audience Perception and Vulnerability
01:26:02
Speaker
Yeah. And, and you know, not been able to, because he's to he cares too much about what the audience wants to.
01:26:09
Speaker
you know wants to say or whether or not they like it and all that kind of stuff. He gets hung up on all those things and and it's almost like someone's taken my brain and blown it up for everyone to see. Do you know what I mean? like That's the the sense that I get.
01:26:27
Speaker
ah every time yeah hearing something like this.
Internal Conflict and Humor
01:26:32
Speaker
and And that line, that last line, I'm not really funny in real life, only with within this contrived and flattering environment. That's all it was, just a joke, just a piece of nothing, good night. That there is distilled to perfection how I feel most of the time.
01:26:51
Speaker
oh certainly about standard You know, obviously there's different areas of your life and obviously you dont you try not to let it bleed into everything else. and but No, no, exactly. You need to have that.
Transformation in Comedy
01:27:03
Speaker
And then obviously after this, there was the kind of continuation of ah the Laurel and Hardy sketches with Palmer and the Seaside Burkers sketch where he says, you know, in in the exact same melody, you know, in the exact same cadence of rhythm, the Seaside Burkers sketch is one of the great silent comedies. And what I think is amazing is that Ollie had a sex change and converted to Islam to make that movie. And then had reverse gender realignment after the shooting was over in order to become a man again.
01:27:30
Speaker
And then he renounced Islam and became an apostate with a price on his head. And the Islamic extremists targeted him for the rest of his life. Now, of course, today you do all that with CGI. Yeah. But they really had to do it super. I like the um the thing from, was it Stu's voice?
Timing and Silence in Humor
01:27:51
Speaker
Yeah. When he's like, like, everything's changed. So you're going to just sit there for the next 25 seconds. Yeah. Yeah. What we're going to do is we're going to play it. Yeah. Whilst it'll have a woman with a regional accent. What programs are on next. Yeah. Which I imagine. So good. Which I imagine would have been superb on the original broadcast because that would have been exactly what happened. Yeah. and Which is really
01:28:23
Speaker
I think it's funnier on the DVD because he is just out there for 25 seconds. Yeah, no one else is saying anything. And slowly lowers down on his chair. Yeah. Oh, yes, it's stupid. ah But no, like I said, I do enjoy I have a soft spot for this episode for for a couple
Personal Connection to Comedy
01:28:40
Speaker
of reasons. Like I said, I do like the Jesus is the answer. What is the question routine? I'm a big fan of that. The Jerry side of it sketch always gets me. and And like I said, that that last bit Not because it's funny, just because I relate to it on a huge level. like it's so and no I so ah challenge almost any stand-up.
01:29:02
Speaker
or at least any stand-up with self-awareness and kind of shame two to watch that last bit and not kind of, I got john genuinely got a lump in my throat watching it. brown Because that's kind of like, I do genuinely care about stand-up, like alone.
Compulsion to Perform
01:29:18
Speaker
Do you know what I mean? Like you wouldn't do it if you didn't care about it, why would you? You know, its yeah it's horrible even if you do care about it. Yeah, exactly. right i would you um One of the comedians will be like,
01:29:30
Speaker
tell other people don't become a comedian. Have you got any advice for starting to do comedy? Don't do it. yeah Unless you literally physically have to. yeah dont Well there's, I can't remember who it was. I do it now because I have to. Yeah. Like I can't not. Yeah, and this is the thing you see. ah it's It's like, I can't remember who it was, it was either Sean Walsh or John Richardson, right? Yeah. And it was in an interview, a podcast or something where the person interviewing them said to them, and you know, why do you do stand up? And they said, I do it because I must.
01:30:11
Speaker
yeah like obviously for them it's different now because it's tied to their income and it's kind of what you know it's how they make their living and all that kind of stuff but yeah but they will have started and that's the same you you do like ah every time i think about giving after like i don't think i can give up No. I don't think I could. I don't think I could do it. Which is weird. But anyway, do you know what?
Existential Reflection on Podcast
01:30:35
Speaker
Let's end on that existential note. Let's do that. Let's leave let's leave a weird taste in the listener's mouth. yeah but so Let's do that because you know listen, we're not um We're not funny people outside of the contrived environment of this podcast or on stage. street I'm not even funny in this podcast. you know and At the end of the day, that's that's all it was, just a podcast, a piece of nothing.
01:31:06
Speaker
Thanks, Joe. Thanks.