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Basic Leeds: A Debrief
967 Plays8 months ago
On February 9th 2024, Dan and Joe scurried along to the Leeds Playhouse to watch Stew on his Basic Lee tour. this is them talking about it. Dan has seen it before and Joe is seeing it for the first time.
Includes amusing/tedious (delete as applicable) asides about Fleabag, Dan's recent Vasectomy and other things that we've probably forgotten. These days, you get arrested and thrown in jail for not remembering things. especially the past.
SPOILER WARNING: The bits we could remember probably contain spoilers, so if you haven't seen Basic Lee and would rather watch the man himself do it properly rather than two boring men try to remember bits of it, don't listen to this. Or do, I'm not your Mum.
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Transcript
Introduction and Stuart Lee's Influence
00:00:33
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Across the Sh universe podcast, the world's only podcast about the comedian Stuart Lee. God, it feels like ages since I've done one of these.
00:00:44
Speaker
um yeah this episode is a bit of a weird one in terms of the the type of stuff that we normally do because basically a couple of weeks ago joe and i went to leads went to the um the playhouse in leads to watch stew um on his basic lead tour and um obviously you know this is we're skipping ahead a little bit here because joe hasn't done the um
00:01:12
Speaker
Hasn't done his output beyond 41st best and so he's kind of missed all the bit in the middle and then skipped obviously straight to the end, straight to where we are now. But couldn't pass up the opportunity to watch Stu live.
Experiencing Stuart Lee Live
00:01:26
Speaker
This tour, I think I've seen Stu on this tour like four times maybe.
00:01:31
Speaker
once right at the start of the Leicester Square Theatre phase back in 2021, 2022? 2022. And then again in Edinburgh last year a couple of times once I had tickets for and then the other time I think
00:01:52
Speaker
I had tickets to go see Paul Sinner at the stand in Edinburgh and Paul Sinner had to drop out for one reason or another and Stu filled his slot so I quickly snapped up tickets for that and it was interesting actually watching Stu sort of two nights on the bounce near enough and you know watching the same show two nights on the bounce and just seeing how it was different and seeing how it changed and then getting to see it again a couple of months later in Leeds.
00:02:20
Speaker
But it was great and Joe and I sort of said well you know given that we're doing a Stuart Lee podcast we'd be remiss if we didn't at least have a little conversation about it and you know and record that conversation for you guys to listen to because we are narcissists.
Recording Challenges and Comedy Festivals
00:02:37
Speaker
Every thought that we have you should hear obviously.
00:02:40
Speaker
But no, it was good. It was a good fun time. But the issue that we've had is that it's taken us weeks to actually get together and record it. Mainly due to kind of life getting in the way, you know, preparing for Lester. We did the live universe episode in Lester with Michael Legg. That was fun. The recording for that will be coming out soon. As soon as I figure out how to filter out the noise of the bowling alley next door that's currently bleeding into the recording.
00:03:10
Speaker
But yeah, that was fun. And Joe did his solo show, A Guide to Therapy for Terrible People at the Leicester Comedy Festival. His award nominated show as well. And then quickly hot footed it next door to the Y Theatre to take part in a LGBTQ.
00:03:26
Speaker
plus comedy showcase which you know I understand you did very well I didn't get to see it myself that week actually I I went to Leicester myself to see Stu in conversation with Jeff Rowe who used to head up the Leicester Comedy Festival
00:03:46
Speaker
which joe and i talk about a little bit but um yeah in this episode obviously it's just a a brief sort of chat of our evening watching stew we get a little bit hung up on fleabag i seem to remember um start talking about fleabag i'm a big fan of fleabag and stew obviously in the current tour has got a routine about fleabag
00:04:05
Speaker
So yeah, we get kind of sidetracked talking about Fleabag for a little bit. But beyond that, it's just a quick sort of overview, a quick buy our standards anyway, it's still an hour. Quick buy our standards overview of the bits we could remember from the basically evening that we had.
00:04:25
Speaker
so yeah oh and that's i suppose that's the other thing and i say this a little bit in the recording that we did anyway but if you haven't seen basically yet i would suggest potentially not listening to this episode because there are a few little spoilers regarding the main sort of narrative of the show so maybe give it a miss if you haven't seen it what else have i got to tell you i think that's it to be honest with you so uh yeah without further ado let's uh let's crack on with the episode so basically
00:04:55
Speaker
Um, we've tried to do this episode probably seven times now in the maybe, what
Personal Anecdotes and Festival Highlights
00:05:03
Speaker
is it? Two weeks since we saw it. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Just over two weeks.
00:05:08
Speaker
Yeah, and in the intervening two weeks, a lot has happened. So I had a vasectomy. That went poorly, let's say. Well, we'll find out. I don't know. You don't find out for months and months. Do you not? Oh, yeah.
00:05:27
Speaker
You have to clear yourself of the stuff that's in the chamber, so to speak. I think they recommended 25 masturbations. Amazing. Oh, so you should have really done them. No, honestly, no. I'd be done by now. Yeah, I'm still not allowed to touch it. Just empty the clip.
00:05:57
Speaker
Yeah, I'm still not allowed to touch it. Trust me, I'll make light work of it once I'm allowed. Yeah, I'm sure. Anyway, that's very, very crass. I had a vasectomy, and then a couple of days after having a vasectomy, I got the train to Leicester, to the Leicester Comedy Festival, to watch Stuart Lee in conversation with
00:06:26
Speaker
Jeff. What's the guy's surname? Jeff Rowe, that's it, who founded, who founded and runs the Leicester Comedy Festival. He doesn't run it anymore. Does he not? No, he ran it until the end of last, so last year was the last time that he run it. Alright, who runs it now? Michael Wackalam, I think his name is. That's an incredible name.
00:06:52
Speaker
If that's real, that's incredible. Yeah, yeah. Has he not been liking your posts on Twitter about... Jeff has? Yeah, well, I usually get Jeff and then Michael and they're the two likes that I get. Oh, yeah. I might, I might have done actually, no, there is a Michael who likes my tweets, but I would have noticed an incredibly weird surname. Apologies to Michael. Yeah, I'm sure it's like Wacklem or something. That's incredible. Yeah, he runs it now.
00:07:22
Speaker
Well, irrespective of Freestyle then. In respective of that, he at the De Montford Hall in Leicester, which is a fabulous venue. I don't know if you've ever been, but it's, yeah, it's a lovely, lovely venue. At the De Montford Hall last week, I think it was the 18th.
Stuart Lee's Upcoming Projects
00:07:49
Speaker
He staged a conversation between himself and Stuart Lee just going through Stuart's, you know, career and sort of life in comedy and associations with the Leicester Comedy Festival and all that kind of stuff. Because he's obviously... When he's filing our suit for copyright infringement, he's taken our podcast idea. Yeah, but I think given that
00:08:18
Speaker
I think given that he's kind of gone straight to the source. I think that's... We're not booking Stewart next. Yeah, I've got to be honest. I don't know where we'd stand on a copyright claim against someone that was speaking to the person that owns the copyright. I'm not sure that... We're not going to be booking Stewart ever because I think you would have a little wee. I don't think I'd need to masturbate, put it that way.
00:08:47
Speaker
That would be your chamber. Yeah, that'd be my chamber empty. I wouldn't need to. I wouldn't need to follow the guidance, put it that way. It's such a good comic that it prevents people from following NHS guidance. Yeah, I'll tell you, there are two things in life that turn me on. One of them is my wife and the other one's long, tedious anecdotes about Richard Hammond.
00:09:21
Speaker
That aren't true. I've done it again, right? I've done it again. I've mentioned, I should know where we are in the story, but I've mentioned something from a Stewart Lee special. I have heard you talk about Richard Hammond before. Is it something to do with crisps?
00:09:41
Speaker
Does Richard Hammond eat crisps? No, not quite, but we will get to that when we get to... No worries. When we get to, if you prefer, a milder comedian. But anyway, the reason I wanted to bring it up is, and, you know, obviously since he said this in a public forum in front of, you know, a couple of thousand people or however many were there in the De Montford Hall, he mentioned, he's given some really tasty little tidbits about his
00:10:11
Speaker
New show after basically. He did mention when we saw him at basically in leads. Did you remember he mentioned something about a werewolf costume?
00:10:22
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. So he went into slightly more detail about it. Amazing. Admittedly, not much more, but he basically, I thought it was just a throwaway line at the end of the basically thing that we watched because, you know, it hasn't been in every iteration of it I've seen. He didn't mention it when I saw it a couple of times at Edinburgh and he didn't mention it when I saw it at Leicester Square Theatre a couple of years ago.
00:10:50
Speaker
um back end of 2022 but he at this in this conversation he mentioned that his next show will be called um i can't remember if it was stewart lee versus the werewolf amazing or something along those lines where the first half of it is going to be sort of him you know doing his his usual thing um but then the second half of it's entirely going to be in a werewolf costume
00:11:19
Speaker
And from the point of view of a werewolf. I need tickets to that. Yeah. Honestly, I can't wait. I can't wait. It's right. I can't tell you why. Yeah. But what I would say is just I love it. Yeah. But what I would say is there are a couple of things to say about that. First of all, I'm going to take it with a massive pinch of salt. Yeah.
00:11:49
Speaker
because there's every possibility that he's misdirected us completely. Yeah. That he's trying to get the word. Is that going to be a vampire costume for the entire house? Well, just something. I don't know. I get the sense he's trying to get the word out there about this werewolf show and it's a double bluff of some kind. I don't know. It's going to be from the point of view of an insect.
00:12:14
Speaker
Well, no, he's already been there and obviously he's not in that romantic costume, though, has he? No, but his now ex-wife, Bridget Christie, did do a full thing in an ant costume, which I do think has been a... I don't know who influenced who, but... Yeah.
00:12:40
Speaker
if you haven't watched it, heard bit from the alternative comedy experience.
00:12:45
Speaker
Yeah, from the point of view of an ant is incredible. It's essentially like feminist comedy, like, you know, talking about all the all the sort of stuff that women have to put up with, but sort of disguising it as being from the perspective of an ant. I don't know, there's just some brilliant stuff on there like, oh, here we go again, another ant comedian. You know what I mean? It's so good. I'm a male comedian, of course. Have you seen the new one?
00:13:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the mail. It's so good. It's so good. And shout out to Eddie French. They did an incredible clap back. Oh, the non-binary. I'm a non-binary comedian. Of course I'm doing it for the gigs. Oh, incredible. Eddie French skewered their own entire community. Friend of the podcast. Friend of the podcast.
00:13:43
Speaker
Yeah, but yeah, they skewered their own entire community within a 10 second clip. It was incredible. And the eyebrow at the end as well was just the absolute pinnacle. But yeah, so like I said, Stewart Lee has, he's thrown this bit of information out there. It could be a red herring, who knows, but if, or a Richard Herring.
00:14:08
Speaker
I'm here all night but yeah I've not got I was kidding when I said I'm here all night but if it is true oh my god I just can't wait to see it I can't wait to see it. Especially as will it be full head?
00:14:30
Speaker
I imagine it'll be a real commitment, like it'll be a full costume. I'm hoping. Well, Noah, because obviously a big part of what he does, and certainly these days anyway, a big part of what he does is he's very good with his face.
Analyzing Stuart Lee's Comedic Style
00:14:48
Speaker
Do you know what I mean? It's one of those things where like 20 years ago you may not have said that about him because he was very dry and he's very sort of sarcastic and very slow.
00:14:57
Speaker
He's got way more physical as he's got an old in part, as he said, because it's funnier to see like a fat old man running around. Yeah, it's funnier to run around when you look like you can't.
00:15:13
Speaker
Yeah. You know, it's not as funny to run around if you look like an athlete. So yeah, I'm not sure. I do hope that whatever it is, the werewolf costume, whatever it may be, doesn't completely remove his face from the equation because some of his best stuff. Some of his best stuff. And we'll get into this when we get there's a lot of it in comedy vehicle.
00:15:36
Speaker
And there's a lot of it in if you prefer a mother comedian carpet remnant world, like he does so much little looks, you know what I mean? So to take that away, it'd be a full half as well. It's not like it's like a five minute bit. But then, you know, I'm saying that he's never let me down before. So yeah, exactly. Whatever way he chooses. If anyone could do it, it's him.
00:16:04
Speaker
Whatever way he chooses to do it, I'm sure it'll be brilliant and I'll eat it up. Like a werewolf. Yeah, exactly. I'll eat it like a werewolf eats a hiker walking along the moors at night. Nice. American werewolf in London, reference for everyone there. I thought it was a Peter Sutcliffe reference, but
00:16:28
Speaker
Peter Sutcliffe isn't a werewolf. Famously, Peter Sutcliffe was not a werewolf. He was a murder of prostitutes, not people that worked as a prostitute.
00:16:48
Speaker
Sorry, I saw that one coming in my life and I had to have it. So yeah, I mean, obviously like I say, I've seen this four times and what I can say from having seen it so many times is that it's clear to me that he's at the absolute top of his game.
00:17:06
Speaker
Um, despite, you know, the pandemic layoff and going down in the middle of a tour and all that kind of stuff, he's at the absolute top of his game. Because the different iterations I've seen of it have all had the same sort of main blocks. Now, what I will say is just quickly before we get into it, before anybody who's listening to this, that hasn't seen basically and doesn't want spoilers, probably turn this off. Um, cause we might, we'll mention some stuff even maybe obliquely possible to talk about it without talking about it.
00:17:34
Speaker
No, so yeah, if you haven't seen it and you don't want things spoiling, please do turn it off. But do then come back and listen to it after you've watched the show. So yeah, all the main blocks were kind of there. So ostensibly, it's about him thinking about his career as a stand-up, really. Do you know what I mean? He's looking back to kind of when he started.
00:17:59
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, all of his shows are about stand up in one way or another. Yeah. But this is the most on the nose. This is what the show is about. And he's always got these like repeated motifs, right? He's always got repeated motifs all the way through his stuff. So we haven't got to Carpet Remnant World, but for me, that's like the most famous one.
00:18:21
Speaker
And in that, the through line of it is him saying, I don't do anything. I just drive around all day and look after kids in Carpet Remnant World. It's just about him coming to terms with the fact that he's not a young adventurer anymore. He's a 45-year-old father of two. That is on the road.
00:18:42
Speaker
like half the year. That is yeah he's either driving around or he's looking after kids he doesn't do anything with his life that's that's the kind of thematic through line of the show whereas with basically the repeated motif is um and he makes a massive joke out of it at the start obviously but the repeated motif is one man one microphone simple basic classic you know um but then obviously he starts to unravel that
00:19:11
Speaker
Like right at the start of the show, he unravels it literally within a joke by saying, well, actually, you know, women can do comedy now. So that doesn't fit. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's one man or woman person. Yeah, one microphone. Yeah. But then he goes into obviously on the third go around, he's like, oh, well, actually, what about Tran? What about the trans community and blah, blah, blah.
00:19:31
Speaker
So he kind of unravels his own simple idea of what stand-up should be. So he does this in every show. I've heard him talk about this before, where he says, in every show, the person on stage, the character, is trying to achieve something. But there's always a problem stopping him from achieving what he wants to achieve.
00:19:58
Speaker
Right? And with this, he's trying to demonstrate to the audience how simple comedy is and how easy he finds it. Yeah. Right? But shit at this level.
00:20:15
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. But that's what he's trying to say. That's the character basically saying, comedy is really easy. You're all idiots. I'm brilliant at it, right? But throughout the show, he keeps getting distracted and things keep getting to him. So like a big one that sticks out for me is the JK Rowling routine. Yeah.
00:20:41
Speaker
Which was one of the temp pulls of the show all the way through. It's not really a routine that's changed. Obviously there's bits that change. He pulls a card out of his pocket and does a joke about politicians and he says, oh, there's no point learning it because they're not in office for very long. But the JK Rowling stuff where he, essentially the joke of it is that he doesn't tell the joke.
00:21:05
Speaker
yeah do you know what i mean so like he he kind of gets into it and says um it's not about that do you know what i mean obviously referencing yeah yeah it's making out like the audience are the ones that have thought of it even though he's creating it so that we think of it yeah
00:21:25
Speaker
And then when we think of it, he goes, uh, you thought that not me. Yeah, it's not about, it's not about that. That's not what I'm saying. Um, do you know what? Right. It's one of those things where, and I'm going to, I'm going to be a bit of a wanker by referencing some of my own work because I'm a knob, but right. So I have, um,
00:21:50
Speaker
Well, I'm not even going to call it a joke, but I have a JK Rowling line that I used to use. I'll do it. I have another one now, which I'm not going to spoil on here because I'm trying to work it in. I'm working it in as part of the current show that I'm doing. But I have one that I used to use where when I walked on stage, if the room was hot, you know, I could physically warm, I would say. I'm sweating like JK Rowling during Pride.
00:22:22
Speaker
But then I've been in a couple of situations where people have either gone ooh or whatever because it's not clear. I realized it's not clear from that joke what side of the fence I come down on. Yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I was thinking that. Yeah, but it took me about a year to realize that. Because in my head I knew where I stood on that issue.
00:22:48
Speaker
Yeah. But after a few gigs of doing it and getting a couple of audiences going, ooh, or like a couple of hisses or whatever, I realized from just from that line alone, it's not clear whether I'm in support of or whether I'm in opposition to. And funnily enough, the reason I've mentioned that is because I feel like that's what he's doing, is he's not taking a position on it.
00:23:18
Speaker
like I think broadly because we know his politics and we know, you know, he goes to great, he goes to great pains to tell everyone that he's a politically correct comedian and all this kind of stuff. So we know, I think we know broadly what side of the issue he comes down on. But within this actual joke, one of the great things about it for me is that
00:23:41
Speaker
he only obliquely references the thing that, you know, the thing that he doesn't want to talk about or the thing that he's accusing the audience of thinking of. But also, it doesn't state a position either. Which I find quite fascinating. When I first saw Stewart Lee, as I've said probably many times on the podcast, the first thing I thought was, oh,
00:24:11
Speaker
or as if someone mentioned him, that's that comedian that doesn't tell any jokes. And this is actually a great example of him being hilarious. Without telling the joke. Not telling the joke. And the actual intention is to not tell the joke.
00:24:31
Speaker
And that's the fun bit. But that's the thing, it's the fun bit. And it's fun for his audience, because like I say, we know where he sits, I think, on that spectrum of where he sits politically. But
00:24:46
Speaker
The fun thing about that routine is that he doesn't in any way stay to position. He sort of makes, he alludes to it by making fun of the fact that J.K. Rowling writes books under an assumed name, a man's name.
00:25:05
Speaker
So when she's writing adult fiction, her name is Robert Galbraith. And obviously he uses that fact to then sort of say, oh, so what you're saying then is that a woman can be a man. Do you know what I mean? He puts that in as part of his joke. So it's quite clear, I think at that point, what side of the fence he comes down on, but he doesn't.
00:25:29
Speaker
outwardly state of position. But the reason I picked out the JK Rowling bit is because that for me was that highlighted specifically some of the problems that we had with that Leeds gig. Right. Because obviously you and I, where we were sat, at least for the first half, we were struggling to hear.
00:25:58
Speaker
It wasn't great. Yeah. And I mean, obviously, like I say, I'd seen the show a few times. I could intuit what was being said and what was going on. But I missed a lot of the subtle sort of ad libs and stuff like that because I was finding it so hard to hear because the sound was really, really muddy. Yeah. Anything that was sort of throw away.
00:26:17
Speaker
we didn't get was completely lost because the microphone just wasn't the sound setup wasn't great but also the the other thing is he himself was struggling and i'll be i will be genuinely baffled and i i won't know whether to applaud it or be absolutely disgusted if i find out that it was a bit um him you know if he was pretending that he was having problems with his hearing aids
00:26:48
Speaker
because that night he seemed to be having so much trouble with his hearing aids. And it looked so, it was so convincing that I, honestly, I believe it was real. Yeah, like you say, you've seen this show four times now. Yeah. But that doesn't mean it's not a bit that's become part of it since the last time I saw it. No, but I think also like even people like Stuart who are so good
00:27:18
Speaker
them sort of bits. You can always tell if someone drops character and I think that might be it. There's a little dip in the character because
00:27:37
Speaker
They actually are playing up and you can't keep it up 100%, especially if something like that's happening. And that's what you're picking up on, the fact that the mask slips slightly for that bit. But again, I'm always loathed to 100% sit one side of the fence or the other because I know- Oh no, you'll never know.
00:28:02
Speaker
you know, having seen so much of his work and having kind of seen the kind of misdirects that he pulls and the best example of it.
00:28:11
Speaker
for anyone who's seen basically, and I hope you have, is obviously, as part of the conceit of this show, he's trying to teach the audience how stand-up works, right? And he teaches them how to construct a goat. He teaches them how to construct a joke. And he does that thing that I've seen him do a couple of times where he just makes noises to describe the rhythm of a joke, and he goes,
00:28:34
Speaker
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like that.
Audience Interaction and Rhetorical Techniques
00:28:38
Speaker
And he sort of does it to mimic a set up punchline, but he spends the whole, the whole thing dipping in and out of this. Um, okay. And what that was that I'd just done is this, and that's part of this particular part of standup. And he, and he did that, but the bit that where you sort of look and he says himself that he's not an actor and he can't, you know, he can't do these things, but I would.
00:29:03
Speaker
I would be surprised if anyone, the first time they see the show, didn't drop into the trap of thinking he was having a serious heartfelt moment. You know, where there's about 20 minutes left of the show and he did a really serious bit about how, you know, during the pandemic he was like lonely and all these things were happening and he was diagnosed with
00:29:29
Speaker
you know, the these various I think he saw a neurodiversity or something he alluded to. And I'd be really, really surprised if anyone not, you know, anyone seeing that for the first time didn't think that that was genuine until the point where he broke the tension by saying. There's about 20 minutes left, that's what you do, you know what I mean? Like, yeah.
00:29:55
Speaker
He sort of jumped. Yeah, I think the exact thing that he's at, like he waits for a pause. Yeah, it's so good. And he goes... Yeah, it's about 20 minutes left. Yeah. But he does it in such a way that he's answering a question. Yeah. That he sees it as the audience are asking, oh, how long back of us?
00:30:17
Speaker
And it's... it's gorgeous. It was sublime. It was absolutely sublime. And do you know what, funnily enough, again, I do this all the time when I'm when I'm cooking or when I'm tidying up or whatever, I'll just stick some stewardly on just to listen to. And he said this in interviews and I never really cottoned on to it because sometimes I just consume the interviews a bit passively, but
00:30:43
Speaker
He said that he sees his stand-up as a conversation with a silent second partner. And I always kind of thought, well, isn't that what all stand-up is? You know, it's a monologue that assumes it's talking to a person, but it doesn't really want necessarily anything back. I mean, unless it's like Al Murray or whatever it goes for the audience interaction.
00:31:09
Speaker
Then I realised what he meant in that he actually literally asks questions of the audience rhetorically all the way through stuff.
00:31:19
Speaker
So I was watching an episode of Comedy Vehicle and there's a lot of assumed rhetorical questions throughout this half hour that I was watching where it'll sort of say, you know, it'll do a joke and there'll be a certain reaction to it. It may be laughs or it may be indifference or it may be whatever.
00:31:46
Speaker
And he'll say something like, well, you can, you know, you might say that, you know, as if he's answering them saying something specifically, as if they didn't just laugh. They actually said something. It's, uh, you know, it's, it's really interesting when you, when you sort of just realize the little things that it is that he's doing. Yeah. Yeah. It's all like tiny, like I'm not describing them, but yeah.
00:32:17
Speaker
like creating that full picture. They're just like little, I don't know that to recall them affectations, but that's essentially what they are. Yeah. They're affectations, aren't they really? Yeah.
00:32:35
Speaker
or tropes, you know, tropes, maybe is the word, I don't know. But when you kind of realise what it is that he's doing, it's really interesting. But so, you know, there's there's all these things going on and it hinges on this thing of him looking back.
00:32:51
Speaker
to, I think he said September 1989, where he does this routine. And it's a routine I've seen on various clips and stuff. There's clips of him on YouTube doing it when he was young. And it's the routine that pivots around. If Jesus is the answer, what is the question? Yeah.
00:33:13
Speaker
where he kind of says that a Jehovah's Witness or something knocked on his door late one night when he was in a student flat or a squat or wherever it was that he was living. And he answered the door and the man said, Jesus is the answer. What is the question? And obviously the kind of uber ultra sarcastic Stuart Lee character of, you know, 1989, 20 something students was
00:33:39
Speaker
pithily sort of wasting this man's time by saying, you know, name this iconic, name this iconic 70s footwear, the blank sandal, whatever.
00:33:59
Speaker
Like, so there's that whole, so it hinges on like that routine, which he finally, he finally tells, um, in basically, but then he kind of goes on to talk about, uh, when he, when he was young and he said that he invented looking at the audience.
00:34:19
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, he didn't outright say it. My favourite bit of the whole thing. He alludes to the fact that he invented turning around to face the audience and prior to that everyone did their material with their backs to the audience. Yeah, yeah.
00:34:35
Speaker
And in earlier versions of this, to be fair, it was slightly different in the one that we saw, but in earlier versions, especially at the Leicester Square Theatre, I saw him, he did like a full five minute routine with his back to the audience.
Critiques and Cultural Commentary
00:34:46
Speaker
Right. So, you know, it was slightly different in earlier versions, but because he essentially then uses that conceit to skewer Phoebe Waller Bridge. Yeah.
00:35:01
Speaker
where he says that, you know, the world, the world assumed that pre Phoebe Waller Bridge that no one had ever looked at a camera. Yeah, no one had ever talked to the audience before. No one had ever broken the fourth wall. Because obviously when that came out, partly I think as well, it's a digger at them because obviously we all know that the BBC
00:35:32
Speaker
kind of version. But when it first came out as an Edinburgh and as a woman in Chato and it absolutely stormed Edinburgh. Oh yeah. And listen right? It's amazing.
00:35:49
Speaker
Yeah, with very good reason, right? Genuinely. And I'm, I'm, I'm loathed to kind of say I'm conflicted about how I feel about Fleabag, because on the one hand, it's incredible. It's phenomenal writing. She's clearly an absolute massive talent, right? Yeah. I've got the book of scripts on my shelf behind me because they're genuinely worth study. For me, the
00:36:14
Speaker
The dinner party episode, episode one of season two is one of the best half hours of television that I've ever watched in my life. It's incredible. It's paced perfectly. Yeah. Every single inch of it is perfect. Right. But I'm conflicted about it because it's that thing of it portrays the middle classes in a really unrealistic light. You know, like it's all about how
00:36:43
Speaker
Like, there's not a chance in hell that she could do any of the things that she could do whilst trying to keep a struggling cafe open. Like, you know what I mean? There's the cork and scene of it. But partly the thing is that if her dad's bankrolling it...
00:36:59
Speaker
Yeah, and that's the problem, you see, is that if that is the case, again, it portrays something that I've got a bit of a chip on my shoulder about, especially when it comes to comedy. It's ironic that Phoebe Waller-Bridge wrote a show about the middle classes being able to do the things that they want to do because
00:37:27
Speaker
They are being financially supported. Maybe a thing that was intentional. Maybe. I might have missed a big layer of irony, I don't know. But part of it is the fact that she's really struggling to keep it open. Is it the first season where a guy goes in for a sandwich and she charges him like ยฃ20? ยฃ50 or something. He's like, for a sandwich.
00:37:58
Speaker
Yeah, because you can't afford to charge three times fifty or something.
00:38:02
Speaker
I kind of get it, but like, you know, I just, it's one of those things where there's a disconnect for me in some of that, but all of that aside, right? Season two of Fleabag, I mean, season one's brilliant, but season two of Fleabag is among some of the best television that I've ever watched. That being said, like I said, I do have a massive, massive chip on my shoulder about this, so I would appreciate it. It's purely my, this is my opinion and my opinion alone, although I'm sure some other people do share it.
00:38:32
Speaker
It's one of my favourite uses of the term, of I love you. What, it'll pass. Yeah. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. Incredible. The only thing that Bede says, I know. Yeah, no, definitely. To be honest, that's the most iconic, but it'll pass, gives it a run for its mark. Well, yeah, exactly. But yeah, for me, I suppose. I can't sleep with you. Yeah. Because I've fallen off.
00:39:02
Speaker
The one that absolutely sent me was in the dinner party episode when Claire said to her, get your hands off my miscarriage. Oh, because it's such a, like it's heartbreaking. It's such a heartbreaking thing, but then also it's like really darkly and absurdly funny. Yeah. Yeah. Just all of that, like her haircut. Yeah. She looks like a pencil. Yeah.
00:39:30
Speaker
yes it's very very good but all of that being said all of that being said it's all irrelevant that it's Fleabag with what he's doing he's just mocking something that because there's tens of thousands of things that have done it recently well there are but he so he does it in comedy vehicle you know that's one of the yeah he's just using that as a
00:39:58
Speaker
And actually, I think the funniest thing is the singing. Which bit of the singing? Oh yeah, when he sings the theme tune. It's so good. Because I was genuinely thinking, there isn't a theme tune, is there? Yeah, no. Kind of going in my head being like, am I being a moron? Or do I remember? Because actually, isn't it that
00:40:26
Speaker
Because I only watched both seasons once, and it was a long time ago. Isn't there like really weird jazz? Like really sure? There's a really...
00:40:40
Speaker
there's two types of music yeah there's there's two types of title music from what i can recall it's been a while since i've watched it but i have watched that that episode the dinner party episode to death because we did it on our on our module at uni but um so i've watched that one to death but they um they use two different types they use really messy jazz which basically just sounded like a load of jazz instruments being kicked down some stairs yeah
00:41:06
Speaker
in like a really short burst. But then also there's one where it's like really heavy guitar music. Ah yeah I do sort of remember I think. But it's sort of... It has no words. Of Stuart Lee's like music that he has at the start of the DVDs and stuff that we've been watching. Yeah, yeah. Yeah it was just sort of
00:41:33
Speaker
It was reminiscent of it. It was just obnoxious. But, but, yeah, I mean, irrespective of that, obviously, he's he's completely he's completely skewered a target as he does, you know, well known, a well known target. And I would argue, you know, because there's this argument obviously in comedy that
00:42:01
Speaker
If a man is picking on a woman, it's punching down, essentially. But you might argue, given the status of Phoebe Waller-Bridge, that it's very much punching up in this situation. Yeah, because actually, he's not really attacking Phoebe Waller-Bridge. No, he's attacking Fleabag. Yeah. And it's that sort of... And actually, it's similar to...
00:42:30
Speaker
Like would you say in 41st best that he's attacking Tom O'Connor? He's like, no. What he's sort of attacking is the idea.
00:42:43
Speaker
Here's occasionally. Actually, it's the idea that the audience, because that's new to them, they love that because it's fresh to them and sort of screw them for liking this when we've all been doing this for years and years and years and it's the bitterness
00:43:08
Speaker
of the popularity that it got. Well, so that's the thing. It's not really her awfully bad things mad at her. That's the key thing that you've mentioned there, the word bitterness, right? Is that one of the, you know, the character of Stuart Lee as opposed to the human being of Stuart Lee, you know, the human being, Stuart Lee, has said in interviews before,
00:43:33
Speaker
that he, you know, he does have all of those elements within him. He's kind of bitter, he's self-centred, he's self-righteous, he's, you know, all of these things that the character is, within the character they're... Yeah, exactly. But within the character they're dialed up to 11. So all the bitterness and resentment that he has about, you know, the comedy industry, or his standing in the comedy industry, all comes out via the character Stewart Lee. But,
00:43:58
Speaker
in a really unreasonable manner. The whole routine starts on a surreal, completely unreasonable and fabricated premise that before Fleabag, no one knew to turn around and face the audience.
Stuart Lee's Stage Persona
00:44:17
Speaker
He said this knowing full well that every single person in the room has watched everything he's ever done
00:44:25
Speaker
Do you know what I mean? But we go with him on it. It's like that thing. It's so recognised that even if someone has been in there and has never seen anything he's ever done. They still know that that's bullshit. Him saying nothing before playback. Nobody turned rat. It's so obviously... Because everyone's seen somebody before.
00:44:54
Speaker
Well, yeah, exactly. Like, it all just... Yeah, they just not. But you kind of have to go with him because it...
00:45:04
Speaker
Because it's what makes the joke. It's what makes the joke. But, you know, there's an argument to be said that he's not even necessarily pointing at Fleabag or Phoebe Wollabridge, he's pointing at the hyperbole and the hysteria around Fleabag when it came out. Yeah, that's what I meant.
00:45:25
Speaker
You know, everyone in the broad sheets and, you know, the newspapers and reviewers and all these people, the reason that Fleabag, not in Edinburgh, obviously, because it's different, but the reason that he did so well on television is because everyone went mental for the fourth wall breaking.
00:45:41
Speaker
Yeah, you know it that was its kind of signature But you know you'd sort of argue that it can't be a signature because it's been done a million times before but I I had this conversation with a tutor at uni where For scripts I was writing. I originally made it a mockumentary. Um But he for for do good, you know, you read it. All right, yeah
00:46:05
Speaker
but it was originally a mockumentary and it was interspersed with loads of talking heads of the characters you know in the office talking to a an unseen person behind the camera and the tutor flagged it up straight away he's like yeah but everyone's just going to compare that to the office yeah so you know
00:46:26
Speaker
It's not that you can't do a mockumentary, but as soon as you do a mockumentary that's set in an office building, that's it. And it's that same thing of when something becomes ubiquitous for a technique, it becomes the byword for that technique. And that's what's happened to Fleabag with the fourth wall breaking stuff. And that's the thing. So for example, a mockumentary now, one that's really popular at the minute is what we do in the shadows.
00:46:56
Speaker
But actually, the way it's filmed and the way it's done, it feels much less like a mockumentary. I feel like a sitcom sort of. Just with the way that they've filmed it.
00:47:15
Speaker
there's a few kind of signposts here and there where they're like, oh no, yeah, this is a mockumentary, there is a camera group. But it's not like the office where it's so clearly a mockumentary, where it feels like a sort of shit documentary.
00:47:33
Speaker
But yeah, no, like I say, I think it's purely just, you know, he was going after the hyperbole around it. He was going after the hysteria that came out around Fleabag. And, you know, because it was like the biggest thing in comedy for like three years, especially during the pandemic, when a lot of people discovered it, you know, and then obviously on the back of it, he kind of says, oh, and it led to all these things like writing for a Bond film and all these things that Phoebe Waller-Bridge got to do. Like that bitterness of the character comes out perfectly.
00:48:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. You know, because he's essentially saying, I did that with comedy vehicle, why haven't I been allowed to write a Bond film? Yeah. You know, but so that routine, I love it, but I kind of have a bit of a personal thing towards it, because like I said, I do have a bit of a chip on my shoulder about middle class, the middle class homogenization of comedy.
00:48:28
Speaker
I feel like it's just going to get to a point 10 years from now where the only people who can afford to do comedy will be the ones who stand for them to buy the flat. I mean, that's the case now. A few people are still hanging on in there, but by a thread. Yeah. But down the road, it's going to get worse. I've decided that I'm not going to cut my nose off to spot my face.
00:48:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, you just keep doing it. And like I said, it's purely just a, it's an anxiety I have as a working class person. And, you know, you've got that, I've got that Northern chip where I feel like everyone's against me because I've got a Northern accent. I like to think that I'm working class, but then I also have a national trust membership. And I don't know what that does for me.
00:49:25
Speaker
Well, I read a definition on this to make myself feel better because I feel like, you know, I probably moved out of the working classes by virtue of, you know. I would start once because I have a university degree. You're not allowed to be working class. That I'm not working class. Yeah. Now I have a master's. It depends how you come by it though. If you got that university degree by putting yourself into debt, then you're absolutely working class.
00:49:55
Speaker
Yeah. But no, I read a definition somewhere that basically said it was based on the way you grew up, not the way you are now. Oh, right, OK. I am definitely a working person. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So I take comfort in that. My first house was in Rita's Zoo in Bob 2. Do you know what? You know, it's funny you should mention that. You know, the flat that they lived in
00:50:25
Speaker
Yeah, that block of flats is where my parents were when I was bought. Yeah, well, so around that time, my uncle lived there as well. In that same block of flats. It's to a reason that we look alike.
00:50:42
Speaker
Do you know what? It's funny, right? You've mentioned this, right? Since we put up... Do we have the same dad? Since we put up all of the... Well, if we do have the same dad, then it's my dad, because I look just like him. Well, I look just like mine, so... Yeah, well, then that answers that question, then no, it doesn't. Sorry. But anyway, what I was going to say is mum, then... Yeah, maybe. Just because we...
00:51:08
Speaker
Since since I put all the promo up following Lester and the pictures of us and stuff at least three or four people have commented on them saying Is he your twin? Brilliant to which I've said no, you never catch me No, we do from side profile especially but I said I Said no, you know, it's not me because you'd never catch me in a lead shirt. It's true but anyway, so that you know, so the fleabag routine and
00:51:36
Speaker
For me, the other massive thing that stands out, there's loads of other stuff, but there's a couple of things that stand out. We're not going to get time to go into all of them, but the bit where he skewers the type of man that comes to watch him. Yeah, yeah.
00:51:53
Speaker
100% you and I sat there both a creased with laughter and be squirming in our seats going yeah, this is 100% true But actually like I thought that Like I think it's also a little bit of a bit that he Says that there's more may men there than necessarily there are And I think
00:52:21
Speaker
that it might be exaggerated. Well, no, I think it's vaguely 50-50. I think it's vaguely 50-50, but the reason for that is you can almost guarantee that the man will have brought the woman as opposed to the other way around. Yeah, but that's the thing. I think probably there's more that are there where they both are fans. Yeah.
00:52:50
Speaker
have come together partly because so my i forgot to mention this earlier but in in our uh lester podcast yeah i noticed a little bit of it when you mentioned when you mentioned at the start that there was more females in the audience than you expected and i felt like there was a little bit of a kind of did you not notice that
00:53:19
Speaker
No, I 100% noticed it, but the reason I didn't acknowledge it was, right, so a Stuart Lee audience would have understood what I was saying. Yeah, yeah. Right, the reason I made that joke. Yeah, yeah. So what you've got to, so Bear in mind, I've listened back to the audience of our, the audience, the audio of our Leicester thing, right, and I say that right at the top. Yeah, yeah.
00:53:39
Speaker
before I then, so it was that reaction to that joke that then got me to ask the audience what brought them here. And whether or not they were fans of the podcast and none of them were fans of the podcast, right? But I genuinely, I do wonder how many of them were proper genuine Stewart Lee fans because I 100% feel like a Stewart Lee audience would have understood what I was trying to say.
Audience Reactions and Social Commentary
00:54:09
Speaker
I was so confused. I was so confused by the reaction to it. It's one of those, I'm not bothered. Listen, given what happened immediately following the podcast with my solo show, I'm well used to jokes not working. It's not one of those things. I wasn't sort of fazed as much.
00:54:36
Speaker
That's it. I wasn't fazed as such by the joke not working. I was just thrown by the fact of we were hosting a podcast about Stuart Lee, and so many people who didn't seem to understand Stuart Lee were there. It was very, very confusing, which did make it helpful that Michael then said, let's keep the Stuart Lee chat to a minute. Yeah, I don't remember anything about who's Stuart Lee.
00:55:04
Speaker
But yeah, so in terms of the basic stuff, like I said, there's a bunch of stuff in there that I really like. I did really like when he skewered his own audience about, oh, yes, you should absolutely go see Stuart Lee, actually. And he did that sort of voice. And obviously we don't have that kind of voice, but the things that he was saying
00:55:24
Speaker
um about the man patronizing the watches yeah that what that watches me in bed on a laptop on his stomach on his chest and it's so accurate i mean it's a little bit accurate because i mean it's 2024 now so i watch them on my phone yeah not i'm not on the laptop on my chest anymore but
00:55:52
Speaker
yeah no i know i know what you mean um but that bit i really liked and i think for me the i don't want to give too much more away about the show because obviously people you know might want to go see it and whatever but um that and we're we're running out of time because we've both got um things we need to get to but yeah the ending routine um about the where he says where he says about
00:56:20
Speaker
people's humdrum lives yeah and he says he likes touring but he also likes routine and he starts talking about the kettles all being different in the venues that he goes to and sometimes there's a kettle and two cups but three chairs and sometimes there's no cups and sometimes there isn't even a kettle it's from an urn in a different room
00:56:47
Speaker
It's kind of related this back to his sort of like, you know, this newly, newly diagnosed neurodiversity that he's got. But he uses that then to essentially turn it back on the audience and say that he wishes he was like us and he had a, like, he wishes he was like us and our really boring lives.
00:57:09
Speaker
Because you go into work, don't you, on a Monday? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you say, morning. Morning. Morning. Did you realize we could, yeah, morning. Oh, Monday, yeah, morning. And then you go home in the evening and you go, right, I'll see you tomorrow then. See you tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, I'm very much excited about seeing you tomorrow.
00:57:35
Speaker
that's it and he's he manages to uh tomorrow you know he manages to really skew a sort of that that sort of dull you know the kind of what you might call work banter but it's not banter because you don't really like do you know what i mean yeah just get tiny things that that you do to give you the most modicum of joy just a shred of yeah
00:58:06
Speaker
when in theory all you're doing is just giving up massive chunks of your life for a company that doesn't care about it. But yeah, he sort of does that whole routine, he goes through the entire week, he's like, it's Wednesday morning, and then he sort of, it gets progressively more and more depressing as he goes through it. And as it builds the kind of like, you know, the musical swells and
00:58:33
Speaker
and all that kind of stuff. It's a really sort of poignant ending. And I'll tell you the bit that I did forget to talk about the bit where he blames the lack of jazz in the show on leaving the EU. Yeah, yeah.
00:58:47
Speaker
So normally what I do is I'd read these things out of cards over some jars, but we can't have that because we left these. So you just have to make your own jazz up in your head. He tries to teach the audience shit. And then it's your fault because you've created the jazz yourself.
00:59:10
Speaker
Tries to teach the audience how to imagine jazz. But that's the thing, when you started reading them, did you try and imagine jazz? The first time I did, yeah. I did.
00:59:23
Speaker
Yeah, by the time I'd seen it four times, I couldn't because you can't imagine. He knows, you know, you can't imagine jazz and listen to it. It's really hot. Of course it is. But not only that, we don't have the frame of reference that he has. No, yeah, true. You know, it's quite tricky. And that's what makes the routine funny because he's saying, you know, you know, don't go off on a tangent and do like a Sonny Murray song or whatever.
00:59:48
Speaker
really specific and, you know, he knows full well. But, um, but yeah, so obviously we're running out of time, so I don't want to get too much deeper into it, but let's just talk about the two sort of things that happened that were kind of unique to Leeds. Um, or at least I assume you need to lead.
01:00:07
Speaker
The first thing is obviously just opposite us of the other side of the aisle, our mutual friend, Jeanette, went to the show and there was an empty chair next to it. Which obviously he couldn't resist. Which obviously he couldn't resist going mental.
01:00:27
Speaker
and demanding to know why there was an empty seat, which annoyed me greatly because there were two empty seats in front of us that he didn't notice. And then two people came and swiftly filled them while he's back, which kind of pissed me off. Because then when he was doing the T-shirt routine where he's asking people what was on their T-shirts, he picked the two kids next to us. Yeah, yeah. That kid that had the Carhartt T-shirt on. But it's fine. We got to speak to him afterwards. So yeah, we did. Then we still got your affection.
01:00:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's it. We queued up afterwards and we spoke to him and he was nice. He's always nice whenever you speak to him. He's now our friend of the podcast. A couple of times. I think that's a stretch, Joe, to be honest. I think we can say that's a stretch.
Post-Show Experiences and Access Issues
01:01:12
Speaker
There are people that you think that they're your friends and they don't think you're their friend. That's the kind of friend that he is. That we think is our friend.
01:01:22
Speaker
It's a one-way relationship, although he did remember that we exist when I went to Leicester. I queued up afterwards and he looked at me with a slight recognition and he's like, I know your face. And I said, yeah, I was in Leeds the other night. He's like, oh yeah, with that other guy. And that's you.
01:01:45
Speaker
Yeah, it was great. And obviously you signed our book and everything gave us a lovely encouragement as young budding stand-ups. Well, not that young, but budding stand-ups. Not that budding. Yeah, exactly. Speak for yourself.
01:02:02
Speaker
I died on my ass in Leicester on Saturday, Joe. I'm winning at life. But yeah. And yeah, the woman that came in late that he absolutely got so much mileage out of that he called her an assassin and thought he kept asking her if she was there to kill him.
01:02:23
Speaker
because she was wearing a really dark coat but then a really bright yellow hat in a weird way but no my favourite thing that happened and we must must sign off in a minute because I can hear my children trying their hardest to go to bed. One of my favourite things that happened was
01:02:41
Speaker
in the queue afterwards. There were two guys in the queue in front of us and they were trying to decide what piece of Stuart Lee merchandise to get. And they couldn't decide and they went up and they said... Yeah, they said to Stuart, which one of these is good? Which is a great way to phrase it.
01:03:08
Speaker
which is incredible. I think they had they had a copy of like 41st best in their hand or something, but they said which one of these is good or which one of these do you think is the best? And Stuart blessing, like really awkwardly was kind of like, well, listen, people seem to know how to answer. Like, obviously, you know, he says, you know, Capit Remnant World did really well and seem to people seem to really like that one. But it was so awkward and awful and weird.
01:03:39
Speaker
I mean, when someone is kind of meticulous and is kind of, you know, thoughtful and whatever in terms of the work that they do as Stuart Lee is confronted with the question, which one of these is good? If it had been me, I would have just gone, none of them.
01:04:00
Speaker
I was like saying to DaVinci which one of these took you the longest to paint? Which one of your paintings is the best? Which one of these did you put the most effort into? It was just absolutely ridiculous. Very brief whistle stop.
01:04:26
Speaker
debrief on on basically there joe i didn't want to yeah i didn't want to do it to death and i knew it would be a struggle because as i said to you it yeah oh yeah no it was it was phenomenal the the worry for me is that he stopped releasing these things on dvd now so unless he is he is filming it in april
01:04:48
Speaker
He is, but the problem with streaming services is, as we've seen with Snowflake Tornado, is that if it goes on iPlayer, it won't hang around forever. So once it's gone, it's gone. Is he not putting Snowflake Tornado on DVD?
01:05:02
Speaker
No, there's no market for DVDs now. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. Um, I'm hoping that he goes back to, but then can he even, because if it's been out on the BBC, do they own it now? I don't know. It's one of those things that I'm not sure I am slightly concerned because I would like to, obviously we, you know, we want to do a snowflake tornado episodes at some point in future. And I want to do a full run through episode at some point in future. But as far as DVDs go, they stop at content provider from 2018.
01:05:32
Speaker
which you now have a copy of. And he's had one since then? Yes, Snowflake and Torenedo. Snowflake and Torenedo are two separate hours that he performed back to back together, half one and half two. And I've seen them both a bunch of times. They're really, really good pieces of work and it does worry me a touch that they're currently not available anywhere.
01:05:59
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm hoping someone picks them up. But this is the this is the problem you have with streaming is that without physical media to keep hold of you kind of at the mercy of the streaming companies Like Amazon have got a bunch of of Stewart's stuff. Yeah, they've got first best They have yeah, they've got all sorts but again, it's at the mercy of what's
01:06:23
Speaker
Like, you can't go on there and purchase Comedy Vehicle Series 4 now, I don't think, but I own it through Amazon, so it's in my... I thought it was... Amazon was the only place that you could buy it. You might never know. Like, I don't know. Video. Like, you can't do the first few seasons. But, like, you can rent season four, I think.
01:06:47
Speaker
Maybe you can now, but it keeps dropping on and off is what I'm saying. That's the worry for me is that, you know, somewhere down the line, oh, I'm saying this, bloody hell, I was talking about that Fleabag book, it's here, look. Fleabag. But yeah, so I don't know. You've got to go, so let's sign off.
01:07:13
Speaker
Yeah, let's do that. Yeah, we will be back next time once I've got it sorted with the live episode. And then after that, Joe, we're going to get into comedy vehicle comedy vehicle series one. So I will be in touch and we'll sort that out to everyone else. Our Lester episode with Michael Legg will be along very shortly. Nice.