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How the Church Can End Human Trafficking — Francis Chan & Kevin Malone Speak Out
76 Plays1 month ago
In part two of our powerful conversation with Francis Chan and Kevin Malone, we explore one of the most critical questions facing the modern church: Will we rise to fight the evil of human trafficking?
Francis and Kevin unpack what Scripture says about justice, why the church must care for the most vulnerable, and how every believer—regardless of title or role—can take meaningful action. With stories of transformation, honest frustration, and bold hope, this episode will challenge and inspire you.
🙏 Even prayer is action. Let this conversation be your invitation to begin.
📍 Join the movement at: https://usiaht.org/abolitionists
⏱️ Timestamps:
00:00 – Intro: Can the Church Actually Make a Difference?
02:19 – Francis on the Long-Term Impact of Church Advocacy
03:54 – Real Lives Changed: From Sermons to Action
05:50 – God Will Bless Churches That Care for the Vulnerable
07:08 – Are Today’s Trafficked Kids Our Modern-Day Orphans?
09:10 – The Pressure on Pastors—and a Better Way Forward
10:22 – Why “Advocate” Empowers Ordinary Church Members
11:44 – Reaching the Next Generation Through Youth Ministry
12:55 – The Most Powerful Weapon: Prayer
14:14 – Out of Sight, Out of Mind: A Biblical Warning
16:26 – Building God’s Kingdom Instead of Our Own
19:11 – Final Reflections: Why Long-Term Commitment Matters
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the 'Advocate' Series
00:00:06
Speaker
Hi, my name is Jeremy Hicks. I'm one of the content creators here at the U.S. Institute Against Human Trafficking and Kids Not For Sale. In the last episode, we had a conversation with our founder, Kevin Malone, and pastor, author, and speaker, Francis Chan.
00:00:19
Speaker
What brought them together to actually have this interview was creating a new video study series that the U.S. Institute is putting out. It's called Advocate.
Role of Church Members in Anti-Trafficking
00:00:27
Speaker
What Advocate is about is actually educating the church about how human trafficking exists currently in our nation and what the church can do to respond to it in a Christ-filled way.
00:00:39
Speaker
Today, they're gonna talk about their mission of ending human trafficking and trying to get the church involved.
Challenges in Anti-Trafficking Efforts
00:00:45
Speaker
Many times people think it's the pastor who should be taking those steps, but and many times it's really just any member of the church can get involved in taking a step to actually fight human trafficking.
00:00:57
Speaker
And many times people get around the idea of fighting human trafficking. We all want to end this heinous crime. But as soon as the rallying starts, it seems the hard work begins.
00:01:07
Speaker
And that's when they kind of tailor off. In this episode, Kevin and Francis talk about how they've kind of experienced the same thing. They want to get involved in this fight, but it seems like something always gets in the way.
00:01:21
Speaker
Something always becomes harder.
Mission to End Human Trafficking
00:01:24
Speaker
So they spent some time encouraging each other and encouraging other people who might want to also get involved inside the church to do what Christ has called us to do. And that's to be the hands and feet of Jesus.
00:01:34
Speaker
You're going to hear the hearts of Kevin and Francis and how they really truly want to end human trafficking in the name of Jesus Christ. So without further ado, let's get into today's episode.
Early Awareness Efforts
00:01:48
Speaker
So Francis, I think many years ago, almost 20 now, at least 18, 17, that you started talking about human trafficking and you were making the congregation aware of this issue, this challenge.
00:02:04
Speaker
and it's been a long time and I think you got some people that responded and and took action. What would be your words of encouragement to churches, no matter if they're real small out in the country, in the in the Midwest, if they're yeah inner city, mega churches?
Impactful Actions by Church Members
00:02:22
Speaker
How do you, as a pastor, share with other pastors why this is important to protect, to intervene, to provide, just to get get involved? And why shouldn't it be important?
00:02:35
Speaker
Oh, sure gosh. I mean, it's it's huge because when I look back at my time, know, 16 and a half years at that church, like the the things that i now still cherish,
00:02:51
Speaker
is I think about people that were sitting in there when I talked about, let's say human trafficking and you know, there's you, you know, everything that you're doing. I think of, don't know if you ever remember Ted and Sandy, she was my assistant. Yeah. Yeah. yeah You know, she opened up a thrift store and they're giving hundreds of thousands every year.
Reallocating Church Resources for Community Impact
00:03:10
Speaker
i mean, she's older than you. yeah And, i That's a miracle in itself. But she's a good point. And she's running this thing, her and her husband, you know, there it's it's crazy. And then there was a Shannon, I remember, and she started Forever Found.
00:03:26
Speaker
And she's been cranking in that ministry. the gal in Thailand. Of course, Lana, and just encouraging. And then even when I went to Thailand, After leaving Cornerstone, I get there and a guy there you know picks me up. I'm like, wait, I know you.
00:03:40
Speaker
He goes, yeah, i was an usher at your church. He goes, you guys talked about adoption. So we adopted a couple of girls. You talked about human trafficking. So I moved our family over here to Thailand.
00:03:54
Speaker
Like our words, like, like, you know, sometimes you can look at all the people that just sit there like, oh, that's good. Thanks. That was funny. You know, and you forget enough, there were lives that were seriously impacted too.
00:04:06
Speaker
I think of, yeah you know, just even when we try to do that big outdoor amphitheater and the the county was shutting it down, but but there was that big hearing and some guy was bashing me and then one of the city council members, someone on the board of supervisors, I don't even know him, I don't a believer, he goes, hey, I wanna refute whatever that guy said about, everything that guy said about Francis.
00:04:31
Speaker
goes, I don't even know Francis. He all I know is that Cornerstone was the one church that listened to me and actually cared about the kids in the foster system. That was the one church where they let me speak at the platform. Then we moved all of our classes to Cornerstone.
00:04:46
Speaker
He goes, you do you realize that we've never had more than a dozen parents? and That was the record. remember that. Then we moved into the church. And he says, there's over 100 people in every class.
00:04:58
Speaker
and they're taking all of our foster kids out of the system. And just remember at that time, just like, wow, yes, this is the church. This we're supposed to do.
00:05:09
Speaker
Like, if you're not involved in these things, like, There's no life. You know, when we said, gonna give away half of our finance, everything that comes in, half of it's gonna go out.
00:05:21
Speaker
And every week I'd come up and i'm like, hey, look what we did this week. We built these wells, da, da, da, And the whole place would just be cheering. And and I'm just going, This, i was so proud of the church. i was so happy about what God was doing there.
00:05:37
Speaker
and And I know that a lot of churches are in tough times now, COVID, everything else, but that's no excuse. like God sees when we care for those who are in need. And he will bless the church that goes, i don't know how we're gonna pay the bills, but I can't let these guys starve either.
Biblical Mandate for Caring for Vulnerable Children
00:05:58
Speaker
um yeah you know Let's cut our salaries, let's do whatever we need to do to fight some of these injustices. it's not this Again, it's not a guilt thing. I mean, it says that the Lord loves a cheerful giver.
00:06:13
Speaker
and And I think about that. I think about those days when i would say, hey, you guys, this is what, you know, we just said a quarter million dollars, da, da, da, da. And everyone starts cheering. And I'm like, we're cheerful givers. Like, we love doing this. Like, it's a joy. And I don't know where my life would be if I hadn't,
00:06:39
Speaker
spent it on the poor, like my faith, my joy. you know, that's when my wife and I look at each other and go, do you know anyone happier than us?
00:06:50
Speaker
You know? And we're both like, no. After 30 years of marriage, it's like, But if we hadn't done that So here's what I get. Sometimes I'll i'll take this message of of of of the fight about child sex trafficking to various pastors.
Encouraging Initiative in Congregations
00:07:08
Speaker
And a lot of times I get, we got we're doing too many other things. this But I revert back to the Bible. All the occasion it talks about widows and orphans.
00:07:20
Speaker
I believe in my heart that the traffic kids in America today are modern day orphans. They've either run away, they're from foster care, theyve a few have been abducted, but the in the technical terms, and I've done some a lot of research on this because I believe that it's a mandate from God that we're to take care of widows, the orphans.
00:07:47
Speaker
I just really feel like every church should have some, and i maybe not every, but most every, should should have something to do with helping kids that are, like you're talking, poor, they're vulnerable in some way, there they don't have parents. or I just,
00:08:04
Speaker
I don't know. I just think that when you tell me you've got too much going on that you can't protect kids and help kids, I'm thinking maybe so, but that doesn't resonate with me.
00:08:16
Speaker
i don't know. Maybe you can help me understand. Yeah. Well, I will say pastors nowadays are under so much pressure that, I mean, there's just, there's such a lack of unity in churches. Everyone comes as an individual. and everyone's got their own agenda.
00:08:34
Speaker
And so I do feel for pastors today, you know, everyone comes in going, you should care about this, you should care about this, you should care about this. And they are just like livid about it.
00:08:44
Speaker
And you know, whether it's race, whether it's finances, whether it's, you know, some other injustice, there's a lot of that going on. and and churches are splitting because of it. and And meanwhile, they're also trying to fight just the sexual you know revolution type of you know freedom.
00:09:07
Speaker
um And they've got people warring with them at that. So it's just, I agree, like we've got to care about this. but i I'm also really burdened for the church as a whole right now. It's a tough time to be a pastor.
00:09:22
Speaker
I don't know how how it always works, but if I'm a pastor and I do have a lot on my plate, and I do agree with you, that they really do, but there probably is someone in the congregation, yeah someone in the membership that talk has been gifted or if they were trained or equipped or understood or made aware that just that one person yeah in that church could help one kid or a bunch of kids or there's something they could do. So yeah I'm not saying the whole church has, that has to be their primary focus, but I do believe that
00:10:00
Speaker
I just don't oftentimes even hear a pastor, just present it to to your people. Just yeah say, here's here's an issue, a challenge. I don't know if, you know, but but see if anybody. But I think that's the beauty of this series, Advocate.
00:10:16
Speaker
You know, it's the idea of, you know, the pastor doesn't have to make everyone do everything. You know, that was the frustrating thing for me when I had the big church was just like, I had to be, had to spearhead everything.
00:10:30
Speaker
versus now it's just a different world. And so someone could watch this series and then bring some friends over the house. Oh man, I went through this.
00:10:41
Speaker
And let it spread that way. and they're don't have to put all the pressure on the head guy who's already, You know, one of the things I think great about you being part of this series is
Youth Involvement and Power of Prayer
00:10:51
Speaker
your ability to communicate well with the younger generation. yeah i really think the 20-somethings, maybe the 30-somethings, but the 20-somethings and teens, I think this is something that resonates with them and the ability to learn more about it and to be equipped and trained and understand what it looks like.
00:11:10
Speaker
I think you're you've shown throughout your life that you have a real gift to be able to get students to one, not only hear, but to respond and take action. And I think that, I think this is the group of yeah of people in America now that say the young 30s, the 20s, and maybe the teens, that if we can get them engaged in this fight in the youth groups or the the young singles or whatever it is, I think these are the the people that can really make a difference, these young people.
00:11:45
Speaker
It is, it is. and And that's why I spend a lot of time with them. At the same time, they need examples. of older people who are still living by faith. And and you know that's where the church has been so backwards, that the young people do all the crazy stuff. you know And then as they get older, they have a kid, and it's like, oh, I have one kid, I better just stay at home and protect him.
00:12:08
Speaker
you know And versus like, no, you want to take those kids on this. journey. You want to show them a life that takes some faith and risk. and So we really need the whole church to come together because it it it's not going to be sustainable unless the older people are willing to to jump in with with that younger crowd.
00:12:31
Speaker
When I think too, I think prayer. If a church can't do anything, they can do the most important thing, and that's pray. Pray for this fight.
00:12:42
Speaker
Pray for the people. I need covering because when you're out there pounding it and and getting after it, there's a lot of stuff that comes at you, and I need the covering of prayer from people in churches.
00:12:56
Speaker
I really... As you know, we both know the power of prayer. I've seen it miraculously heal my son. I've seen it miraculously heal my wife from cancer.
00:13:06
Speaker
ah seen I've seen the power of God. And I think a lot of times it was what was began by people praying.
Persistent Advocacy and Friendship
00:13:17
Speaker
And I remember when my son overdosed and was basically they were trying to get us to pull his feeding tube.
00:13:24
Speaker
the most important thing I knew was to reach out to everyone I knew that knew God and ask them to pray for Him. So to me, prayer is probably the most important, it is in my opinion, the most important help that anyone in this fight can provide.
00:13:42
Speaker
And if that's all you can do, that's a whole, whole lot. And I'll accept everyone's prayers now because this spiritual battle is it's challenging. so So the power of prayer is is so important.
00:13:57
Speaker
Francis, one of the questions I have I think is important that I am challenged with often is, is is is sharing ah what's happening in regards to human trafficking, yeah child sex trafficking.
00:14:10
Speaker
And oftentimes people maybe hear me, maybe they don't, but it's that situation where out of sight, out of mind. So unless it's, consistently in their face or they're hearing about it, it gets put on the shelf.
00:14:26
Speaker
So again, how do you, from a biblical perspective, how do you deal with it the out of sight, out of mind yeah attitude? Well, I think about Haggai chapter one, when God says, hey, you guys are trying to earn all this money, but you put it in these purses with holes in it.
00:14:44
Speaker
He goes, you want to know why? Because I'm blowing it away. You want to know why I'm blowing it away? It's because you're sitting in your paneled houses while the house of God remains in ruins.
00:14:55
Speaker
And it wasn't that it was out of sight. They chose to make it out of sight and look at their own houses like, honey, what kind of curtains should we have? Meanwhile, the temple's in ruins.
00:15:07
Speaker
And God's saying, I'm going I'm gonna make a wreck of your life because you're just focused on yourself and your stuff. We live in a digital age where nothing has to be out of sight. You see things you don't wanna see. yeah But it's just, we have to make a choice to look for opportunities.
00:15:30
Speaker
um I get it, it's not gonna hit you every day, um but it could if you choose to dwell on it. See, that was the sin of those people and in Haggai's day, was it's like you're you're looking at your own four walls of your house and you're making a nicer and nicer and nicer, and yet you don't care about the things that I care about.
00:15:55
Speaker
We just don't want to be people like that. And it's very easy to go, oh, I forgot. i got... Well, no, you chose. You chose to build your own kingdom rather than what God says is seek first His kingdom and His righteousness.
00:16:12
Speaker
All that other stuff will come to you. God will take care of you. But you have to seek his kingdom first. And yeah, sadly, we live in a time when people don't want to think about it. I get it.
00:16:27
Speaker
There's times when it's, you know, nighttime, it's been a long day, you know, and it's like, let's just watch something. let's watch an old Saturday Night Live rerun. You know, that just I don't want to think seriously. And I think that's where a lot of people are is we don't don't want to think about this. Come on, my life is already tough. Yeah. um Because they don't see the life. You know, like Paul tells Timothy to command the rich to be rich in good deeds so that you can take hold of the life that is truly life.
00:17:02
Speaker
You know, like I want them to experience real life and real life happens when you pour yourself into people that are in need. It's like a beautiful thing, yeah.
00:17:14
Speaker
Well, Francis, it's hard to do this, but... I do want to thank you for coming to do the advocate series.
Inspiring Long-term Advocacy Commitment
00:17:22
Speaker
And I really do consider you blessing in my life. You've always been there when I've most needed you with my family, with different situations that have occurred.
00:17:34
Speaker
We've had a lot of fun together, a lot of laughs, and I think we've moved the needle and made a difference. for the kingdom in some ways hopefully and peripherally and uh i do consider you a a valued friend and uh even though we don't see each other like we used to when we were living in the same hometown but uh i know you're you're out there fighting the fight and and of faith and in doing what god's called you to do and you encourage me and you're a blessing to me and
00:18:04
Speaker
I reflect back on a lot of different things we've done together or I've heard you say, so thank you for being a good friend. Appreciate that. First, it's advocate and not advocate.
00:18:15
Speaker
You know what you said? I'm from Kentucky. No, it's different because it's a verb. I said it in Swahili. that's what I offer. Advocate. That's the verb form in America.
00:18:26
Speaker
And the idea is we want to get people to advocate for them. Okay. What was that saying? It's a verb. Which you are an advocate, and we want everyone to be advocates. But anyways... Thanks for that English, Stacy. Yeah, I always have to help the white guy with his English. didn't know you had a major English. That's what they do. or help white guys with their English. But no, seriously though, I mean, we haven't seen each other in years, but when this opportunity came up, I...
00:18:55
Speaker
made the time, one, because I wanted to see you, but secondly, it's super encouraging to see longevity of fighting for something. You know, we live in a time when people, i mean, they they can't keep the same job for a year. um And so now we're talking about passion for God.
00:19:14
Speaker
um It's just kind of this roller coaster for people. So for you to advocate, you know, for those who don't have a voice still, and some of our friends back in the day that are still doing it to this day, 15 years later,
00:19:32
Speaker
Man, that fires me up. And I hope that what we're doing here gets another generation to not go, oh, I felt emotional for a month.
00:19:43
Speaker
But now i spent the next 15 years of my life actually going after something, the mission of God. So, man, thanks for having me. Thank you.
Call to Action and Resources
00:19:53
Speaker
We'd actually like to thank Francis Chan for spending the time with us and sharing his heart to truly end human trafficking in this nation.
00:20:00
Speaker
Now, if you're thinking to yourself after this episode that you want to do a better job at fighting human trafficking in our nation, we actually have some action steps for you. Go to usiht.org slash abolitionist.
00:20:12
Speaker
From there, subscribe to our newsletter. We will be sending you actionable steps that you can do to get plugged into your local community to do a better job at preventing sex trafficking and doing a better job at doing victim care for those who have been trafficked.
00:20:27
Speaker
The more abolitionists we receive, the more action steps we are taking to end this heinous crime, and we can fight together to end human trafficking in America. You can also check out some more of our content by following our social media pages or making sure to subscribe to our podcast, the Trafficking Free America podcast.
00:20:44
Speaker
Thank you so much for spending some time with us today, and we look forward to seeing you again.