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School Counselors on the Front Lines | Trafficking Free America Podcast
75 Plays12 days ago
In this heartfelt and insightful episode of the Trafficking Free America Podcast, Morgan —a dedicated school counselor and former foster care social worker—shares her unique frontline perspective on identifying and supporting children vulnerable to human trafficking with Executive Director, Oree Freeman
Morgan pulls back the curtain on what educators are seeing in schools every day, the systemic limitations they face, and how prevention curriculum and relationships with students can become life-saving tools. This episode is a must-watch for teachers, counselors, social workers, and anyone who wants to understand how trafficking can hide in plain sight.
🔗 Learn more at: https://www.usiaht.org
👇 Timestamps
00:00 – A story of hidden trafficking in plain sight
00:28 – Meet Morgan Hicks, school counselor and former social worker
01:42 – Social work vs. counseling: Two sides of the same fight
04:08 – How schools often see signs before social services do
05:15 – Florida’s prevention gaps and mandated reporting challenges
06:06 – Safer, Smarter Kids: A prevention curriculum that works
08:54 – What happens after a student makes a disclosure?
11:01 – The frustrating disconnect between schools and CPS
14:02 – How school transfers can isolate vulnerable kids
16:05 – Vulnerability at home: where trafficking risks begin
18:34 – Signs to look for—even when there’s no physical abuse
22:15 – How new students with trauma are (or aren’t) identified
28:48 – The power of trusted adults and triangle relationships
33:08 – Personal story: A mom’s advocacy for her own child
38:25 – Advice for counselors: Be present, be persistent, be relational
🧡 If you work in schools, social work, child welfare, or simply care about protecting kids—this one’s for you.
📢 Subscribe, like, and share this episode to spread awareness.
#HumanTrafficking #MorganHicks #SchoolCounselor #TraffickingFreeAmerica #USIAHT #Prevention #ChildProtection #EducationMatters
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Survivor Story
00:00:00
Speaker
And she was actually trafficked throughout her childhood, going to school every single day. Had no idea that the local community that her family member, I think it was an uncle or something like that, was trafficking her.
00:00:21
Speaker
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Trafficking Free America podcast.
Introducing the Guest and Focus on Florida's Schools
00:00:25
Speaker
Today we're going to have our lovely guest, Morgan. I am the Executive Director, Ori Freeman, for the U.S. Institute Against Human Trafficking. And we are going to be talking today about the school system here in Florida. Morgan is an amazing counselor, and we're going to get her insights.
00:00:43
Speaker
and her education and all of her experience around this issue. Welcome, Morgan. Thank you. How long have you been a school counselor? um This will be my um fourth year with internship, being a school counselor. And then before that, I was a social worker, though, for in the um foster care system for six or seven years.
00:01:08
Speaker
Wow. So, yeah. What was that transition like? Yeah.
00:01:15
Speaker
I got my master's and it's really cool to, as a social worker, you're just you're doing the paperwork and more advocacy side for kids going to court.
00:01:27
Speaker
and filling out the um paperwork for um all the all the um county stuff and everything. And you're, you know, directly impacting the kids, but you're not asking them, like, how does this make you feel? they They had that counselor assigned to them. So then now that's what I wanted to do. And now being at a school and um getting to more talk to the kids of,
00:01:52
Speaker
um you know, what their feelings are, their fears, their thoughts, and just sitting with them in that instead of being the one that runs around and um is the one that
Roles and Challenges in Counseling vs. Social Work
00:02:04
Speaker
advocates. So um it's it's really cool to see both sides you're taking care of the child, child you know, and it. but I would think you came with a lot more experience too.
00:02:14
Speaker
Yes, there's a lot of teachers and other school counselors that they don't have that at all. And if you're not have never been in it or known anyone that's been in foster care, um it's hard to relate. You know, there has to be like a veil that, you know, you got to see behind that curtain of that that whole different life that's out there.
00:02:37
Speaker
Yeah, I could imagine I left recently another training we were doing. And one of the things that social workers were stating about all the assessments that they have to Yes. And all of your paperwork. Yes. And I could imagine now you get to do a lot more hands-on. Yeah.
00:02:52
Speaker
And relationship building with the kids. You get to see them every day. Mm-hmm. Because I think about my experience, just personally, outside of professionally, that's where you have the most contact.
00:03:03
Speaker
Right. Is when you're in a school. Yes. um Every single day. Yeah. And the people get to know you. Mm-hmm. I could imagine that was definitely a different transition, too, though, going from emergency response. Yes.
00:03:15
Speaker
To now... working as a counselor, what would you say when it comes to that, when you come in contact with the child at the school that you might know um or that you've worked with before, whether you haven't worked with before, what would be the difference um in the response for a child that have now might have been identified as experiencing some form of exploitation versus being a social worker at the time?
00:03:45
Speaker
um So usually on the social worker aspect, I had already known, like I'd get a case and that CPI had already been out there, that child protective investigator, CPS, and I'd already had the facts and given the report of what's been happening, where now as the school counselor or a teacher, you're the first, that you see more probably unidentified kids, and as a social worker, you're going out there because someone has identified a kid already as being um either physically, sexually, or um emotionally abused or neglected.
00:04:22
Speaker
Does the state of Florida have any resources or, previously in my work, we'll have SEA tools or assessments that um sometimes teachers could use in order to identify a child that ah may be exploited.
00:04:38
Speaker
Do they have that in the Florida school system?
Child Exploitation Identification Challenges in Florida
00:04:41
Speaker
They do not. We have a tool that we use and the school counselor, me, the psychologist um and the social worker, we have a tool that does um self-harm and harm to others tool. We have that and that's what we use to assess.
00:04:57
Speaker
um Everyone in the state of Florida that works for public county schools are mandated reporters, but most there's no training and no tools really other than that form we sign when you um become a teacher or work for the district that you are a mandated reporter if you see or hear anything.
00:05:15
Speaker
But then a lot of teachers are really scared or people who are not um in the field directly like me or the social worker. um to make that call. And they usually come to me and tell me everything. And they're like, you go call CPS. And I'm like, no, I'm not the one who heard it, but I will sit next to you and do it with you.
Preventative Education with Safer Smarter Kids Program
00:05:36
Speaker
um And so I wish there was our, ah the county that I work in though, has a really cool material, um that is preventative and the kids have to it's for the kids the teachers are in the room with me um but it's made by a Florida she's a former Florida senator like um and her name is Lauren Book and ah she's on the east coast like North Miami and it's called safer smarter kids and the kids all have to watch five episodes and
00:06:09
Speaker
And it's with like it's cartoon. So the the kids love it. It's um like she's a cartoon. There's a couple other their kids. And then there's a blue dog named Buddy. And um she teaches like for kindergarten. It starts with stop teaching kids. Stop. That's not safe.
00:06:25
Speaker
And like there's different scenarios. And she goes from like. someone you know talking to you at a parade and then to even like um your private parts are behind your baiting suit and who do you ah trusted triangle you need to know three people that you would tell if anyone were to touch those private parts behind your baiting suit or tried to and um it's really in depth and then even in third fourth and fifth grade it gets into online safety and people talking to you
00:06:56
Speaker
um online and using safety and um she created all this because she was sexually abused by her nanny as a kid and so she runs an amazing organization, couple different ones, but Safer Smarter Kids is what our county uses and I've had two or three kids, um you know, tell usually after I do that lesson, you know, there's one or two kids that'll be like, I need to tell you something.
00:07:25
Speaker
But um you're in my trusted triangle. And so um it's a I'm really not every county in Florida does it, but the county I work in. And it's a really cool um prevention um curriculum.
00:07:40
Speaker
it It opens up the door for conversation. Yeah, it definitely does. I know that in many other states, there's a lot of different policies and stuff around the nation where they have to talk about it or they have to have the training for the students. And it's really good that you all are implementing that because sometimes in different states they've had where um they have to talk about it, but it's literally a 30 minute conversation and not in depth of they actually have to watch five
Training and Conversations on Exploitation
00:08:07
Speaker
episodes. It opens up conversation.
00:08:08
Speaker
Versus just being a part of the curriculum to just check off the box. Because what I know that I've seen professionally is sometimes it's an uncomfortable conversation. right It's really yeah hard for school age youth. But the most important piece, I would assume, is talking about healthy boundaries. Yeah.
00:08:26
Speaker
And healthy relationships and everything. Because it definitely sounds like a door opener. How do you all... Okay, walk me through a scenario. If...
00:08:38
Speaker
In your pastime as throughout this time being a a school counselor, if you had a child that said, hey, I want to talk to you about um some things that are happening at home, you know, and they're not necessarily saying that they're being abused by the parent, but they're talking about maybe someone is having them take pictures.
00:09:07
Speaker
Mm-hmm. How would the school or legally what happens once you get that information and the report is made? Or are there limitations?
00:09:20
Speaker
Because a lot of times I feel like we put a lot of we point the finger at someone throughout. a child's particular life of what they could have done better. right But I don't think we talk about the red tape and the limitations of what
Legal Barriers and Reporting Challenges
00:09:34
Speaker
we can do. yeah So I can give you an example for myself of just the case management that I used to do.
00:09:40
Speaker
um Working at a homeless shelter and um literally seeing a parent in the act of using narcotics in front of their child. yeah Two parents. Yep. And having to make the CPS report. And in that moment, um there's different things that I could have done. I could immediately call law enforcement, what we're trained to do. Right. um Or I can also call our emergency staff to come and support their client while this process is getting ready to take place. yeah because they're also going to have to take a drug test and things like that um to see if there's any narcotics in there. Because, I mean, it's my word against theirs. Right. Right. Other than just the evidence that could be there or they could, you know, get rid of it. Right.
00:10:21
Speaker
But one of the barriers that I found was after I made the report, I
CPS Involvement and School's Role in Stability
00:10:26
Speaker
didn't know anything else. Yeah. I don't know where those children end up. I don't know if the parent goes into custody. don't know if, I don't know. And so could I have done something differently?
00:10:37
Speaker
um Maybe, but I feel like there's also a disconnect sometimes in programming. Right. You know, from social services and and then with like the nonprofit side of it. Yep. Or the school. So yeah what would be some barriers or limitations you all have come across um when you're encountering maybe someone that could be a potential victim. i um That story resonates. There's so many.
00:11:06
Speaker
Coming from my social worker background, um our number one thing I know working in social work um is that CPS tries to keep the child in the home at possible. And like you were saying, they could have gotten rid of the narcotics or something like that, or trying to find a more less traumatic way of helping the family without removing the children. Because people, I know a lot of people I work with think, oh, let's just remove the children right away. But it's like, well, let's try to help this family as a whole. is Like CPS wants to think, is there anything I can do that's in home services so that we don't have that
00:11:46
Speaker
trauma of taking the kids and then putting them back. Can the parents start working on whatever, is it drug related, you know, um is it um verbal abuse, you know, there's, but there's things like sexual abuse and then domestic violence that need to be separated right away.
00:12:03
Speaker
um But I've had a fellow school counselor, like it it was in that part of the city, She would see people parents in car lines using marijuana. And she was like is that like, do I want to remove the child just for that? Or that's kind of what is socially acceptable in that community or what's, you know, it'll it'll do more harm. So of just having conversation, maybe um pulling them in for a meeting.
00:12:31
Speaker
we The county does, our county has different resources through just our um the education system to help families. And so just pulling in the local school social workers to help with that. um But there is a disconnect, like you're saying, like r my, the school social work and whole county education system doesn't work directly with the CPS, the people that remove the kids and they will not talk with them.
00:13:02
Speaker
possibly here and there in a situation unless that parent brings it up um at court like I'd like this person to help out or be in then the case manager could reach out to people in the school system but very rarely does that happen like i once I think cases families get taken into DCF and foster care you know there's shame and all that and they don't want to re reach out to that school or um if if a school counselor was working with them.
00:13:37
Speaker
um But then if that child's removed and then placed in another home, they're usually in a total totally different school. And that's why another thing when I was a social worker is we really the agency at the time was really hoping to solve that problem of when we remove a child can we keep them in their home school first or at least in the same area to keep that support network because if not you're just removing them take them to a whole nother community and that that school has no idea what's been going on with that child and they couldn't have supported as much as the other school that knew the backstory and knew
00:14:15
Speaker
the life of that child. But um once it's in with, um once a child is removed from a home um with DCF, um it it really is hard. And the legalities of finding out and helping like a teacher wanting to know where did that child go and stuff. It It's the helplessness.
Faith, Parental Influence, and Vulnerability
00:14:37
Speaker
And as a Christian, though, and i would say if anyone else was a Christian is like prayer is the number one tool to keep you connected and just keep praying for that family and that child.
00:14:49
Speaker
I can relate to that because.
00:14:53
Speaker
i am the one that will, if I see anything that is happening with, I don't care being an executive director, I don't care being a case manager, um if I see a parent,
00:15:06
Speaker
with a child and doing any type of illegal, legal activity that I know is not healthy for the child, I have the personality where I will walk up to the car and be like, hey, pull around here real quick. Let me holler at you real quick. Let me talk to you real quick.
00:15:20
Speaker
Because the habit that you have is unhealthy for the child. And so whether there's no illegal um activity that is happening, right I'm telling you, this is this is a habit that ultimately can rub off on your child as they become older But also, I know the unhealthy habits that come with this, you know, and I think that it's really important for sometimes people to not just say something once they once they find out about the exploitation. But it's the things of like you said that your county is doing that you have done getting involved with families now. Yeah, because that's where it starts. It starts. We talk about this all the time.
00:15:55
Speaker
um And just not just with the Institute, but through the podcast about it starts with vulnerability. Right. And knowing that if my home is, it may not feel unsafe, but it's chaotic.
00:16:06
Speaker
You know, having a parent um or a caretaker that has a bad habit, you know, that. um shows a lack of self-discipline at the end of the day, right um ultimately sets the standard for what the child sees. yeah And it may not be, you know, doing drugs. It may not be that. right But it could be not being able to self-regulate their emotions. right And then they have anger issues of what we'll say. But really it's based on the home life and not having any type of coping skill or another
Case Management and Cross-Sector Collaboration
00:16:35
Speaker
outlet. And I just feel like sometimes...
00:16:38
Speaker
It just gets so hard because even when you're so um even when you're sharing the fact that you lose contact, I immediately think, and I've actually seen this before in my previous um profession, is I literally had a child that was being exploited. And they were at the school, had some behavioral things, um wanted to mention suicide, had mentioned suicide. Yeah. and Instead of involving the counselor, the school social worker immediately got involved. And instead of saying, hey, let's work out a plan. Let's right try to get dad and mom. Let's try to figure out what is happening.
00:17:17
Speaker
um Why is a child having running behavior? if They're missing absences. It was immediate request for removal of the school. Ooh, yeah. And there was no, I felt like there was a disconnect between just the school social worker and even though the counselor. yeah Like, this is the safe person for them. right Why don't we give them an opportunity to do one? We all need to be communicating. and And one thing that I've learned throughout My years in doing this work is cross collaboration. Yes. It's extremely important. Yeah. Before we even bring outside parties in. Because I can agree, like even with calling social service, would I have called social service on a parent that I might see smoking marijuana? Right. oh Well, will I have a conversation? Right. Would there be a warning? Right. Absolutely. There would be.
00:18:02
Speaker
But I think that sometimes we're very quick to do the immediate, like let's call right child welfare. Right. um Versus what can we do to find out one more information. Yeah.
00:18:16
Speaker
Is there a a safe person in that child's life? Exactly. That we could possibly talk to? Mm-hmm. to get ahead of this, to even have a setup almost for someone going into care.
00:18:29
Speaker
What would you tell another school counselor that might come in contact with a fifth grader who's being exploited? And there are no um physical signs of exploitation, but what are some things you would want somebody to know, like maybe some signs that you have seen or what they should do?
Handling Suspected Child Exploitation Cases
00:18:49
Speaker
um So if another counselor, and we have a fifth grader that's exploited, um or at least I guess they're seeing, but no physical signs, you were saying. So like you I loved that of getting more information and talking.
00:19:04
Speaker
The teacher, like there's a lot of kids that I see as a counselor, and there and I see them weekly, but the teacher's with them for seven hours. I'm only with them 25 minutes usually a week, and they're with periodically.
00:19:16
Speaker
six, you know, every day. So talking with that teacher that's with them and listening to them, um, of what they've observed in the classroom.
00:19:28
Speaker
Um, and then, um, and then talking to, if there's a caregiver or guardian of any type other than that person that, um,
00:19:40
Speaker
they believe is exploiting them and talking with them. And then a lot of our kids, not a lot, but if that child has been to another school, I know one of our things that we try to do is always call that um school counselor before if they had moved schools multiple times um to talk with them.
00:20:01
Speaker
um And then, yeah, talking with, and then um like you said, that social worker acted alone in our county. um We always were trying to do all teamwork and bringing the kids up and sitting down like with a conference before doing anything like that as a team. And um with the psychologist, the social worker, I and even a principal or teacher.
00:20:27
Speaker
a teacher, and then even bringing in our supervisor at district um if needed and consulting. And so um I know, but um so meeting as a team, if if there's no...
00:20:44
Speaker
like emergency, like we always have to first rule out that like is that child in imminent danger now? And then if not, okay, let's try to not do everything, anything like single handedly. Let's collaborate as a team.
00:20:58
Speaker
Is there services that we can give them? Like we have um clothing um closets at our schools and um We have free meals and um food services and stuff like that for that.
00:21:14
Speaker
um But working with that and then if there's another caregiver that is not the um one that they believe is exploiting them, working with them to get them what they need.
00:21:28
Speaker
But before you make possibly. Because there's no physical evidence. Right. I think a lot of times we're looking for physical evidence or a verbal word. Yeah. These are the people that are harming me versus.
00:21:42
Speaker
And sometimes that I've seen in my own experience. Right.
00:21:47
Speaker
You know, we might, we act on something and then it does more harm for the child. Yeah. Because if social services come out and they find no immediate danger, the child then goes back to a household that could be exploiting them. Right.
00:22:01
Speaker
And then put them in danger of never even returning to the school. Right. And I think one of the thoughts that I did have, as you were mentioning some of the protocols that you do all have in place, what happens if you get a kid that's a transfer?
00:22:16
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So I remember I was a transfer. yeah i was a girl coming out the group home or the foster home. yeah I had already been exploited in the system. And it doesn't just have to be about Florida, right? Like we all across the nation, there are different, there is different protocols for every state.
00:22:34
Speaker
What are, what what are the steps that you all take when you know, is there conversation about, Hey, I remember going to school and they didn't necessarily say, hey, we got trafficking kids coming to school. Right, right. No, no one says that. But they did say, hey, the group home has a new set of kids coming. Yes, yes.
00:22:52
Speaker
And there was no information given. There was no... um I guess, awareness that was going to come. There was no chart that was going to come and say, hey, this kid has been sex traffic from 11 to 13 at that time. yeah She's going to be coming to the school. Right. um These are some of the risk factors. We're worried about her running from the school, from the placement.
00:23:18
Speaker
Do they give you guys any type of notice? And I'm not talking about the school. i know. Do they give you any notice at all? Right. about who's getting ready to enter into the school, even if it's not just exploitation, but children with a history of trauma and abuse.
Support for Children with Trauma Histories
00:23:33
Speaker
Right.
00:23:34
Speaker
It would have to come from the case manager. like your or um So I have two stories. i When I was my first job, um working for DCF as a case manager, I got three teenagers um that had been removed from their home and placed in a group home.
00:23:52
Speaker
And they're the um CPS was still investigating for sexual abuse, and they were homeless, possible sexual abuse, neglect.
00:24:08
Speaker
And one of the girls was... um developmentally disabled and wasn't receiving any medical services for our seizures and other things that she was getting and they got placed in the group home and enrolled in a local high school and I think they've been they were out of high school for like a year and a half like the parent had just been keeping them home and um I, as the case manager myself, I went to the school and I talked with, like, I sat in those meetings because there was no, that parent was not with them. And I told the high school, you know, I would sit in the meetings, and but I couldn't go in depth because the investigation wasn't even,
00:24:55
Speaker
That's the hardest thing with sexual abuse is because there's no physical, like you can investigate all you want, but if the girls aren't going to tell the truth and no one's going to tell the truth around you, how are you goingnna going to figure out, oh, this is definitely they are, have been.
00:25:12
Speaker
and that was the hardest part of dealing with sexual abuse cases as a case manager because it was just all hush-hush. People said stuff in the investigation state, but once they removed from the home, everybody,
00:25:25
Speaker
shut down and no one would say anything more. And so um other than me going to the school, and I think the therapists at the time that they assigned, well, we were still trying to get therapy involved, started communicating.
00:25:41
Speaker
um with the school. But if you don't have a person that's passionate and case management people, the turnover rate for that job is very high. um There would be no person to really connect all the dots and advocate for that child in school. And then it would be up to the teacher or the counselor. But counselors at high school have a lot more higher caseload than ellen what i I've only worked in elementary schools. And so um so that story is with my girls that I had as a case manager. And I was the one to advocate.
00:26:17
Speaker
There was no assessment. And um it was just me letting the administrators at the time coming to their and saying, the girls were removed for this. they're you know It's still under investigation.
00:26:31
Speaker
They were going to start getting therapy. and um so But at least they had that communicated because there's so many kids, like you said, that isn't communicated to the people at the school.
00:26:41
Speaker
um And then on the case may or on the counselor side this year, I had a girl that came in and luckily she was placed with her family. um grandma So grandma called school right up and said, I want the school counselor to talk with um my granddaughter. and um And then every week I would meet with her and just having that relationship. And so when they're placed with family members, you know they can get more support then, especially with a group home. And those girls kept running away from that group home.
00:27:16
Speaker
all the time. So they'd try to go back home even though there was no home to go to. And um the police, would if it if they would run on a Sunday night, they and the police, i would turn my phone on Monday morning as a case manager, and I would drive out there and find them um quicker than the detective because I knew the two or three roads that they would, and they would get in my car, they wouldn't get in the yeah the detective's car. So...
00:27:46
Speaker
You said a lot of really good points for people to know, especially even just as, let's say, ah social worker, whether a school social worker, sometimes we do have to go above and beyond
Bureaucratic Challenges and Safety Measures
00:27:59
Speaker
in our work. Yeah.
00:28:00
Speaker
You know, going out to get those girls. Yeah. Knowing because you had established whether a rapport or information, you knew where they were. Yeah. And I think sometimes in our jobs, there are there's this red tape. Right. There's always red tape. There's red tape where I am.
00:28:16
Speaker
And I'll share with you a story in a second. But um I'm the girl that will get very close to the red tape. I won't cross the red tape, but I will get fairly, fairly close um because I love what I do. And I love serving people. And I ultimately love walking alongside children.
00:28:32
Speaker
But another thing that you mentioned is also the fact of the importance of having that triangle like you all are already doing yeah um in your county at your school district. yeah Because that individual, that child that was being exploited had a relationship with their grandmother. Yes. That was their safety person. And now you have a middle person, kind of like a buffer, someone that can say, hey, can you now, I'm now giving you permission and also, know,
00:29:01
Speaker
She was probably telling her granddaughter, like, this is somebody safe that you can speak with. right And so it's so important, even probably as a school counselor, to building that rapport, I can imagine, with those families.
00:29:13
Speaker
You know, I'll give you a prime example. So my own child actually had exhibited some some things that happened, not necessarily some abuse, but, um you know, kids...
00:29:26
Speaker
Other kids do things. And so there was an incident that happened and and nothing like no child abuse or anything. But... my radar start going up like, well, have I not talked to my daughter about if somebody tries to touch you, kiss you, all these things. So my mind is just going because I'm like, this could not possibly happen to my daughter. Like somebody that is a sexual abuse victim, right survivor of human trafficking, like absolutely not. Lord, we ain't doing this.
00:29:55
Speaker
No. But you know what I did is every morning I watched ah my daughter's school. I drop her off. and their school counselor is there to greet the kids. Mm-hmm. And I love that. I didn't know she was school counselor. I thought was like a teacher, a regular administrator.
00:30:11
Speaker
So one day Evelyn was talking to me. She comes she comes back home and it's my baby girl's name. And yeah she comes back home one day and she's like, mom, she's talking about the like drug free, I guess. Right, right. Not came, but they were talking about yeah bad things. Yeah. And my baby is literally in kindergarten.
00:30:28
Speaker
And I'm like, first off, there's not a lot of training, not only for the teachers, but education for children. Right. But it's so sad that we already have to talk about human trafficking with our children. I have to literally talk to my, you know, at the time, my little girl in kindergarten about unsafe people and not just because of, um you know.
00:30:55
Speaker
relationship violence, right. Or unhealthy friendships. Right. Like, no, actually someone taking my child and trying to exploit them. And so anyway, she came home with these, these paperwork. So I was like, who is teaching you this stuff? Hold on now. Why didn't you get a notice about this? Hold on. Did sign something? Right.
00:31:11
Speaker
And so of course I go up to the school and they're like, Oh no, her school counselor. I'm like, okay. So I heard the name. I kind of didn't follow up. Cause I'm like, Ori, relax. It was unharmful. Like just, just trust it. God got her. Mm hmm.
00:31:25
Speaker
Well, then when a situation came up, I said, um well, baby, who were you mentioning that you wanted to talk to? And she was like, oh, the counselor. And I'm like, the counselor? What counselor?
00:31:38
Speaker
And then when she said her name, and then I'm like, and then one day she got out the car and she said the lady's name. She's like, good morning, Miss such and such. And I'm like, you're the counselor.
00:31:51
Speaker
And she was like, yeah, I'm the school counselor. And I felt Just a relief that I was like, every morning she's out here, she sees all the kids. She knows the ones that are late.
00:32:02
Speaker
She knows the ones that are coming in, skipping by. She watches the cars. She sees the family. She sees the ones that walk. And I just thought that was so awesome to be able to spot something out, right, in that case, something physical or something that just was not healthy.
00:32:19
Speaker
Yeah. But then another thing was I was able to see her after hours was one day, and I was open here to being like, hey, um Evelyn mentioned some things on the playground that happened, and I'm not sure what all precautions they all put in place. Right. Or how many people are out during playtime to monitor my child, but I don't want her under the jungle gym. Mm-hmm.
00:32:39
Speaker
And I said, but I am open if you can, see if everyone wants to talk to you. Do you know how big that took to as a mom? Not on fear of, right they can take my kid or you know, like,
Difficulties in Detecting Trafficking
00:32:52
Speaker
what about to tell them? yeah Even though I don't do anything harmful to my child. I mean, i may I might always be patient with her, you know, with my tone. But I was just like, would you mind? And she was like, yeah, if you're giving me permission, i will I will gladly go by her classroom and see if she wants to talk about anything. I'm like, I just want make sure nothing happened on the playground. right I'm a little bit, I've been through foster care. i've yeah I've been through a lot and I want to protect my daughter. She was like, absolutely. But to be able to see my daughter establish a relationship or see her, I felt comfortable as yeah the parent. Right.
00:33:23
Speaker
You know, I felt that. um And I think that there's sometimes not enough of that, not necessarily from the school counselor, but we don't know the parents. Right. Right. We don't know them. We don't really have a lot of engagement. um What could you speak to if
00:33:43
Speaker
a child, there was no physical signs? Do you know of, like, how do you know? Because cause i'll I'll briefly tell you something. so I actually have a survivor sister.
00:33:55
Speaker
I'll just say that. And she was actually trafficked throughout her childhood. going to school every single day. Had no idea that the local community that her Family member.
00:34:11
Speaker
I think it was an uncle or something like that. i Was trafficking her. I mean, she knew that she was being trafficked. She didn't label it as trafficking. But I mean, literally elementary school. Since the fifth grade would come home, be sold to like local community community members every single day.
00:34:28
Speaker
All throughout middle school. um Had no idea that she was being, that was even exploitation until she was the age of 18. Mm-hmm. And I asked her, like, how do we miss this? Right.
00:34:40
Speaker
How do we miss the signs? how it Was there any signs? Right. um But every single day she went to school, she played, I think, volleyball.
00:34:53
Speaker
Wow. Like a normal life. She was very involved. Mm-hmm. Wow. And we see that a lot in. familiar trafficking yeah where a parent or a family member um is trafficking the child. Yeah. And it becomes a normal, um it's so normalized um to where they don't even know that they're a victim. Right. You know, or they think that's a part of their culture or what we're seeing now is like local tribal members that live on reservations that end up being exploited in traffic because that happens as well. um
00:35:24
Speaker
And so I don't know what, What would you say to that? How could we combat something we don't that we can't see? Right. And then for her stance, unit like her grades were good too. like She was able to keep face and keep really good grades because that's something we look for is the grades.
00:35:45
Speaker
um She was on volleyball, so she had a coach. to and teammates to talk to. um Because as a school, especially um if it was middle school, you know they talk to kids when the grades start slipping.
00:36:00
Speaker
um And we we look for, like you said, drastic changes. Like I had a girl come in this year. She had beautiful hair, eight-year-old, and then um one day just buzzed, all gone.
00:36:13
Speaker
And like the teacher was like, get down here like and talk to her. and try to like And the parent had not reached out to let the teacher know my daughter's coming with buzzed hair today.
00:36:25
Speaker
so... and so um And it was cool though in that conversation I was able to talk with her because I had that preventative curriculum and she had watched the Safer Smarter Kids so she could tell me who was in her trusted
Need for Relational Support and Safe Spaces
00:36:40
Speaker
triangle. Like you said, when it's familiar people, and and that's even the case with the girls that I told the story about there, like they kept wanting to go back to their mom even though the mom was the exploiter and and knew all the abuse that had happened.
00:36:57
Speaker
They didn't they that's all they knew. They knew nothing else. And why would I go to the scary group home where they don't you know, the other girls treated them really bad at the group home.
00:37:09
Speaker
And so but I think it when someone can do face that well, like she went to school, put on a good, you know. It ends up hopefully having someone like a coach or I'm thinking of like a youth pastor something, someone close that they're able to share life with. I think at the middle school age or a friend and a friend hearing like, oh, my family doesn't do that. And maybe that friend then talking to their mom and.
00:37:38
Speaker
Um, and being like, Hey, doesn't this sound, that doesn't sound healthy ah normal you know or normal. doesn't Um, that relationship with your family is a little bit more unhealthy than I've ever, um, heard of.
00:37:55
Speaker
Um, so I think with, um, with that, it's more relational and, um, hoping that there's someone in there that can, um,
00:38:09
Speaker
you know, ask those questions and and um to like challenge them on the boundaries that they're they're seeing. so You said something that's making my mind go because I've never heard it before when we talk about So there's a lot of sometimes organizations that do more so the peer to peer education. Right. We talk about peer to peer. Tell somebody. But the way you broke it down to say, how do I challenge my friend? Right.
00:38:35
Speaker
So even if someone is a parent. Right. And teaching their children yeah how to be a good friend. Right. Yeah. And not to not it's not just about peer pressure. It's also about like, hey, girl, like that's not that's not normal. I don't think that's right.
00:38:50
Speaker
yeah And not just saying something, but challenging someone in a loving and gentle way yeah out of protection to say, you know, we don't do that in my family. We don't love like that. I'll never forget. i actually got a friend that told me that because I was going through my healing and she was like, we don't love like that.
00:39:07
Speaker
That's not the way that we love here. Right. And I couldn't do anything but respect it. And also like, okay, what are they talking about? But I can only imagine that was such a, what you said makes me think how it's also important for counselors to have their ear yeah and the school ear to even the kids because they're going to know, like they know, they know their friends. um I know for me and my work, I'm not always not necessarily being the counselor, but When I was a case manager and doing that work, I hear everything. Yeah. Especially as the community case manager.
00:39:42
Speaker
Yeah. So I'm hearing all the gossip. I know who's doing what. I know who's doing what drug. I know what happened over the weekend because they calling me. and You know, I even have clients from another um contract work that I do and they were calling me over this weekend. Like, girl, let me tell you what happened.
00:39:58
Speaker
And, you know, you still keep it professional. like, oh, really? Okay. Okay. And then I know how to then address it. Right. By not saying like somebody's ratted or right their their language nowadays. Right. Don't sell me.
00:40:11
Speaker
But I'm like, so how was your weekend? Mm hmm. What did you do this weekend? And they immediately like, Miss Lori, don't ask me. yeah Who told you something? I'm nobody. I'm just asking how your weekend was. Why are you defensive? if yeah And that was just a great point that you made about.
00:40:25
Speaker
you know, it is important for peer-to-peer relationships. Yeah. For the children, because a child being exploited...
Teaching Healthy Relationships and Parental Vigilance
00:40:34
Speaker
yeah that we can't physically see the signs, somebody knows something. yep And we also have to be willing to teach our children, and even teach us teachers, yeah I'm assuming, to really educate them on how do we teach them how to be good friends and not reporting something but challenging them. I just like the language that you use with that. oh yeah Let me challenge this because this is not how this is not what a healthy family does. And I think the power in, like I was saying, is parents like...
00:41:04
Speaker
ask your kid how their day went. Like, you just asking how your kid's day went might have a, you know, and then listening to what they have to say about people around them. Yeah, for to catch that. Yeah.
00:41:18
Speaker
Because I know my natural instinct as a parent is I'm already watching the children that Evelyn gravitates to. I'm already watching that. And at one point, there was a little girl, cute, cute little girl,
00:41:34
Speaker
But something in my spidey senses is just like based on the family. i'm just like, I'm not really comfortable with you. You can hang with her, but something in my body.
00:41:49
Speaker
I'm just like, I don't trust my daughter with another kindergarten. <unk> but Another kindergartner. Right. You know how sad that is? I'm like that little girl, but exposed to something. can't put my finger on it. right And all I can see is you trying to play house with my baby.
00:42:06
Speaker
Uh-uh. Right. Uh-uh. And did I back off the child? No. I just put my boundary up, teach Evelyn about boundaries, tell her, like, no, we don't do sleepovers, but we can, I'll take you to the playground and let you play with her. Yeah. um But I also am mindful of my interaction with her.
00:42:27
Speaker
You know, that when I do see her, I speak to her. Mm-hmm. And I tell her, you look so beautiful. Mm-hmm. And, like, did you have a good day today? Because I know that there is something. Mm-hmm. You know, um,
00:42:39
Speaker
And it really does take collaboration. Yeah. It really does. and And hopefully in the future we have a lot more tools to see what we need to see. Yeah. Because I know that I could only imagine it so hard when when you get the different personalities oh with kids that might have been exploited or vulnerable to exploitation when they come in your office.
00:43:03
Speaker
Where they feel like more of the extrovert, introvert kind of kid. But like I hope that there are more tools in the future to do that. What resources would you say outside of the other curriculum that you all do is available to counselors or what what advice would you give them to become more informed more educated um or what they could have in their toolbox to just grow in this knowledge yeah so i would say you know researching it yourself looking for podcasts like this one or in that that topic um there is like our county gives us more like conflict resolution and um
Counselor Resources and Student Engagement
00:43:48
Speaker
Stuff like that. And then there's, um you know, social responsibility stuff for school counselors um and teachers. There isn't that much on that. So researching, I know there's even like picture books on um safe touch, not safe touch and stuff like that um for kids.
00:44:05
Speaker
um But I think looking um but looking up books yourself, listening to people's testimonies. um And then the number one thing, though, that last story um brought up is I love to do.
00:44:22
Speaker
um I have to fit it in my schedule. I have to create the time as a school counselor to do this. I know middle and high school counselors, it's even harder, but having lunch bunches with the kids and just talking with them is my favorite thing.
00:44:36
Speaker
And then the kids see that special time that that school counselor gets to have with, I usually gra take like five or six kids. um And then out of that lunch bunches, then i have I had some kids this year like, oh, I want to just go back to your office and talk with you. And then convert big conversations were able to come about because of that. um But they I think the lunch bunches that just opens up like I'm not here.
00:45:03
Speaker
just to be the school counselor, to be the person who, you know, does the lessons and the paperwork and stuff. I'm here because I really care and I want to, you know, know about your life genuinely. And they saw that and they they loved that time. But as a school counselor, any county or that type of our school will be like that. How are you going to fit that? You have to make the time to fit that, which I feel like, though, is the... um most important part of our my job is to make sure they're safe and and so I fit it in throughout through all those meetings and all that.
00:45:41
Speaker
and sounds like you have to be really involved and like you said before things you shared invested in these kids life. Yeah. And there's resources out there. We also have to dig for them too. Yeah.
00:45:52
Speaker
It may not be all of what we need. Right. But it's, it's something that could get us started. Well, thank you for joining us today. Yeah. Thanks for having me. I hope to see you back. Thanks.
Conclusion and Additional Resources
00:46:05
Speaker
Thank you everyone for joining us again on the trafficking free America podcast. Please comment below for more resources because we have them Also, view our website along with visiting the United States Institute Against Human Trafficking website for more information.