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Episode 3: Women in X-Wing!
143 Plays2 years ago
A long time ago… in a windy city, far, far away… Your hosts Andrew and Nick are joined by Catherine Nyxsera and Emily Rastyl to discuss women in X-Wing and the gaming community at large! In this episode, we break down the experience Catherine and Emily have had being a part of the small (but growing) community of female players. We also finally break the silence on Ahsoka and drop our takes as we near the final two episodes of the show.
Hey, join the conversation, hop into the Discord! https://discord.gg/xknEegJw67
Check out Emily and her crew over at The Midwest Scrubcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/64Dez5WJbMQXUyHx6IN4QL?si=139638209cfa4055
Help save a fox: https://www.saveafox.org/
If you are in the Midwest, consider joining us for Dragonfall on October 7th-8th in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin https://tabletop.events/conventions/dragon-fall-2023, or our Windy City Trials Turkey Trot Official Store Champ on November 18th at Good Games Chicago! https://rollbetter.gg/tournaments/783
You can follow us live for weekly content on our Twitch channel: http://twitch.tv/312_Squadron
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Catch replays and edited content on our YouTube Channel: https://www.facebook.com/Squadron312/
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:02
Speaker
You are listening to the 312 Squadron podcast. My name is Nick Sperry. I'm Andrew. Katherine. And Emily. This week, we have some very special guests, two pillars of our community as they just introduced themselves. Katherine Naxera and Emily Rastle are joining us. And I just want to thank you both for making the time during your lovely weekdays. I'm sure you're both busy to join us for this episode. I'm super excited. Thank you. Yeah, no problem at all. Thanks for having us.
00:00:31
Speaker
Of course, we've got a lot to talk about with you,
X-Wing Community Initiatives
00:00:35
Speaker
too. But first, I just want to shout out the X-Wing community really quick. I don't know if you all heard, but in wake of there not being any X-Wing specific announcements or coverage for Atomic Mask Games, many extravaganza, the X-Wing community took it upon themselves to do an X-Wing extravaganza, where it was just a bunch of different streams from across the world streaming X-Wing.
00:01:01
Speaker
That was just a couple of days ago that that ended. And I just wanted to give the community a shout out. I think that's pretty cool. Don't think it was out of spite at all. It was kind of fun. I was going to say it was very cool. You know, it's always fun when the community comes together like that and shows that, you know, there's interest and support. Yeah. Did I did anybody get a chance to watch any of the extravaganza?
Atomic Mass Games Priorities
00:01:24
Speaker
That just happened. Any tuning in any of the streams or anything like that?
00:01:29
Speaker
I caught some of the content on Viper and some of him's painting. I caught him's painting as well. That was fun. That's cool. Yeah, that was that was great. Yeah, I think that it's worth mentioning that there are some, you know, the elephant in the room with with this whole situation, you know, they won't spend too much time on it, but maybe just some implications or things that people are are thinking about right now when it comes to
00:01:55
Speaker
maybe where the priorities are with Atomic Mask Games and their new baby Shatterpoints is a big new deal for them. I think that one of the biggest reasons why Armada and X-Wing weren't
00:02:11
Speaker
mentioned in the Monique Stravaganza is because Shatterpoint is important for them to get their sales where they want it to be, and it's just the newest thing. I'm curious what you all think about that, and if you've had the chance to play Shatterpoint, I haven't had the chance to demo it yet.
Shatterpoint Impressions
00:02:28
Speaker
Yeah, I haven't played it. I've seen someone else play it next to me while I was playing an X-Wing game. That's as close as I've gotten. You were exposed to it. I was lightly exposed to it, yes. Catherine, what about you? I haven't seen the demo at Adapticon. Oh, nice. So, yeah, I haven't got to play it, but I saw the demo. It looks good.
00:02:55
Speaker
What were your, so beyond that, what were your impressions of the game? Is it something that you would be like, would you be someone that would buy this game? I mean, the price point is not cheap, right? Yes, I would probably buy into it if I, you know, if my situation wasn't as it was currently, yes, I would definitely look into it. It's got a lot of cool stuff going on.
00:03:20
Speaker
I was very excited when they announced it. I thought it looked great. And I haven't had a chance to play it yet. But I know all the rules. I watched YouTube videos on how to play it. I wanted to go to our local game store because they had a demo kit. So I've just been looking for someone else to get it. I think that even though it's a high price point, what you get with it is
00:03:49
Speaker
really good at that price point. I mean, very few minigames give you a full squad that you could field in a tournament out of the main box. And not only do they give you that full squad, they give you a ton of terrain pieces and stuff too. And that's why I think that AMG is really pushing South Shatterpoint
Future of X-Wing Concerns
00:04:14
Speaker
right now. They want this to do well. They've made it.
00:04:17
Speaker
pretty enticing for you to go out and buy it. I think that for the components that you get in it, it possibly could be under cost in the core set. I don't know the individual pieces that you can buy with it.
00:04:31
Speaker
Um, cause they give you a lot there and they've put a ton of emphasis with local game stores by with, with demo kits. They, you can tell at even at Gen Con, they had a lot of, um, materials and like marketing materials and, and banners and things like that for shatter point. So I can, you know.
00:04:53
Speaker
just tell right now that they are really, really trying to push this drawing out of the gate. They also have a lot of competitors that are going to be sharing the same audience. So they're trying to get the people who play Marvel Crisis Protocol, trying to get the people that are into Warhammer, like their kill team stuff. Yeah, I mean, it's probably one of the, this isn't a ShatterPoint podcast. No, it's not. It's not a ShatterPoint podcast, but it's.
00:05:19
Speaker
It's just I think it's a really it's it does relate to xwing because it is a potential for at least for the short term obstacle when it comes to how people feel about atomic mass games prioritizing xwing. I think that for a while shatter point will be the only thing that they focus on in terms of a daily weekly
00:05:40
Speaker
monthly, report, transmissions, everything I think is going to be more about Shatterpoint for a while. But it doesn't mean that X-Wing is dead. I think a lot of folks have drawn that conclusion. It doesn't feel good to feel like maybe your games have put on pause. However, we still have all of the OP stuff coming up.
00:05:58
Speaker
I'm going to World's Qualifier in a couple of days and by the time this comes out, I will have been at Golden State Games. So there's still a lot to look forward to, but I get it. On one hand, I understand, oh, I wish we got to hear about something coming up for X-Wing, but on the other hand, I think it's pretty obvious from a business perspective that this game is really their number one priority for a while.
Debate on X-Wing Coverage
00:06:19
Speaker
Yeah, I'm going to disagree with that. Yeah, go for it. I mean, they had a whole weekend full of discussions and painting and stuff. They could take one hour just to talk about what they have going up, coming up for X wing and stuff. I don't disagree with that either. I mean, not to say that it excuses not mentioning at all.
00:06:39
Speaker
There have been some interesting reports on how the Twitch stream has been handled and everything like that, which I'm not even going to go into the rabbit hole of that, but I think that some folks...
00:06:51
Speaker
are the alarm bells are ringing for them and maybe are jumping to conclusions and then other folks are more reasonably concerned, which I think is something I can understand. But yeah, they should definitely think should have maybe spent a little bit of time unless unless product feature product is on hold or they're just like they just don't feel comfortable speaking to it yet. I think the true marker will be if if by Depticon, if we don't.
00:07:17
Speaker
get news and updates and announcements on things, then I think it's very reasonable to be very concerned. That would be very concerning. Yeah, that's my take. Emily, what do you think?
Emily's Perspective on X-Wing News
00:07:30
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I have kind of fallen out of the X-Wing news cycle just in the past year or so, just as I've gradually played the game less and less. So I can't really speak to that aspect of it. I think that leaving X-Wing out of one mini-stravaganza doesn't necessarily make a pattern.
00:08:00
Speaker
But I agree I would be concerned if that continues in the sense that we just haven't had a lot of... I haven't heard a lot of new stuff about X-Wing in terms of actual big product releases and so I think that's what's making people anxious is the lack of...
00:08:20
Speaker
Battle of Endor is what everyone wants to hear about right now. I mean, that was the last big thing. The last news we got was at Adapticon. And of course, they announced the Starters, which we got. And they announced the Bomber and 2400 re-release, which we got. So now's a good time to be giving this little update on Endor or the next scenario pack or the next squadron pack or other Starters.
00:08:49
Speaker
Oh, that's starters is the real big thing. I'm like, well, hey, what's the rumor? There's these other five starter sets. Or the gunboat reprint that they've been using for a long time. They've been teasing that for a while. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You would think that they would want to maintain the momentum, you know, because like, you know, a game like X-wing that is kind of predicated around this constant release cycle, like
00:09:14
Speaker
I understand that there was, you know, a lot of hiccups, I'm sure, in the transition between FFG and AMG and long production lead times and all that, blah, blah, blah. But like, yeah, you would think that even with the, you know, as Nick said, I'm sure, obviously, the main focus is Shadowpoint. That's understandable. But I feel like they would have wanted to at least keep up some kind of momentum with X-Wing if it's continuing to, you know, be a game that they're developing and putting new stuff out for like, yeah.
Community Commendations
00:09:44
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And a game that still has a large worldwide community. Yeah, yeah. Indeed. So some people are going to say that like atomic mass games like really doesn't like X-wing players. I think right now I think atomic mass games, specifically those who are on the Twitch streams like Will Schick, I think there's there's certain X-wing players that are annoying them. I mean,
00:10:05
Speaker
I don't know if I can say that they just don't like X-wing players because I think that's just kind of a weird broad statement to make. But some X-wing players have gotten themselves banned from their Twitch streams. I think some of them are a little shocked because they were just asking about X-wing product and AMGs like this isn't what we're doing.
00:10:24
Speaker
They had released a transmission basically telling people to not cyberbully, which I thought was very interesting, not necessarily normal, to have to get a reminder of the community to not act like an asshole to each other and to the AMG. It's just a lot. I don't really, I'm trying to wrap my head around it. I think we're all trying to.
00:10:45
Speaker
I'm trying, I'm trying to look at it as like, look, it's a lot of drama and it's just gonna like dissipate. It's really not that big of a deal, like whatever, but it is interesting. Like that's the thing that happens and has been happening recently. And that reminds me of an important question. What are your, what's the age slash family thing on this? So editor's note, we'll cut this part out. 13, PG 13. Keep it PG 13. Good, good to know.
00:11:14
Speaker
I think I've dropped like an F bomb. I'd say just try not to drop it. Yeah, we're about one in an episode. That's fine. No problem. I like the trolls. I just need to know if I need to turn them on or not. I appreciate you asking that. Anything else before we move on here about this topic? Interesting topic.
00:11:34
Speaker
Uh, I got a thing. They should have done something. That's all. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it'd be nice just to get like an update or just an acknowledgement. That's always good. Um, but otherwise, you know, I think everyone in the community also understands it's a small team with a new product. Um, so I'm going to give them better for that out. If yeah, like, uh, like Emily was saying, if the pattern continues in, and this has become as worrisome, then that's then, but.
00:12:05
Speaker
You know, it was really cool though to see the community come together and do extravaganza in response to show just, you know, how popular, what a missed opportunity that was for AMG. So they're probably less likely to do that next year. And it's also cool that, you know, to know that like we, you don't need AMG necessarily to keep X-wing cool and alive. Yeah. X-wing players have for a long time been doing our own thing.
00:12:32
Speaker
What was it, Emily, in the Midwest, the scrub cast? What is it? That episode was called, like, X-wing is dead, long live X-wing. Oh, yeah, that was a blog post, actually, that Dan wrote. Yes, yes. It was a blog post because we are technically a blog, even though we
00:12:49
Speaker
pretty much never post anymore. But yes, when, when, you know, 2.5 was announced, Dan, you know, wrote this post about, yeah, and called it X-wing instead of long live X-wing, which, of course, everybody misinterpreted, you know, obviously what he was trying to say. It's a provocative title. Yeah, it was. It was provocative. Yes. An SEO. Yeah. Yeah. The marketer in me is like chef's kiss. That was great. Yeah. Yeah.
Notable Figures in X-Wing
00:13:20
Speaker
All right, let's let's move on to the the top of the topic at hand here for our episode today. Really excited about this. Emily and Catherine are two women in X-wing who are notable parts of the community. Catherine has ingrained herself in X-wing for several years. Catherine don't know exactly how long. So I just said several years because it's just an easy way to just cover my bases with just more several years. How long have you been a part of the X-wing community now? Would you say? Uh,
00:13:50
Speaker
I mean, that I guess that depends on how you want to rate it. I mean, I started playing X wing. They're like a way for first edition. Yeah, a long time. It's been a while. Yeah, I was back with the. Took part in some team covenant events and stuff like that in the Vassal League.
00:14:11
Speaker
that's a name I haven't heard in a long time indeed as far as like being like active in the comedian stuff of course I started following GSP in 2018 it's around the 2019 where I started doing some major events and several years as exactly yep
00:14:30
Speaker
Yeah, you've been an active part of both the physical community at events and active across the online space. You've been a loyal supporter of our channel since we started streaming and, of course, GSP and many other Xwing streams like Nickel City Xwing. So just wanted to give you a proper shout and thank you for being a very recognizable and great part of the Xwing community for as long as you've been playing.
00:14:55
Speaker
I was going to say, you were there since I started playing and I really enjoyed watching you on Nick's Dreams.
00:15:03
Speaker
Yeah, never bet against Catherine. On the other side here, we've got Emily, who's been a pillar of the Midwest tournament scene, as well as the content creation side. You've been a frequent host and staple of the Midwest Scrubs with their Midwest Scrub blog, and of course, their podcast, the Midwest Scrubcast, which you can find on most major platforms, including Spotify. You will give you a proper shout for the podcast at the end of the episode too. And links to your podcast.
00:15:32
Speaker
Uh-huh. Nice. Yeah, yeah, the podcast, I would say the podcast has been going, uh, maybe since 2019? Yeah, I think 2019, since we've been doing the podcast. And it was a blog for like maybe a year before we started podcasting, I think. So it's been a while now.
00:15:55
Speaker
Yeah. You guys have a great time. You've had me on before and I think it's finally returned the favor and hold you hostage for an hour on our podcast. There we go.
00:16:06
Speaker
Oh, right. So it's definitely one of the more fun podcasts in X-wing. And even when you're not talking about X-wing stuff, it's right, which, which, you know, fair warning, fair warning anymore. We barely even talk about X-wing like we it has devolved into a, you know, Matt, Dan, Clint and Emily just talk about whatever they want to talk about podcast for
00:16:27
Speaker
I was going to say the last couple of ones on Pokemon Unite have really fueled me. Because I was like, hey, I play that game. That's great. Yeah, that's awesome. All right, I'm not as lame as I thought. Right. Or we're all lame together, one or the other. Right. Well, yes. I mean, honestly, that's what it is. But I was like, I know that the Midwest scrubs are like the cool people in X-Wing. Well, thanks. Kindred spirits. I don't know if that's accurate, but I'll take it.
00:16:56
Speaker
to me. You're cool to me. If Andrew thinks you're cool, that is, that's all that matters. Uh huh. Yeah. So Andrew, I'll take the first, do you want to alternate questions or do you want me to just take the first to you do the last two?
00:17:07
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that sounds great. Which one would you? Oh, I meant like, yeah, you taking the first like you want to start if you want to start this off. Yeah, I think that'd be great. Cool. All right. So gaming of all kinds has largely been dominated by by men, by the male presence.
Gender Dynamics in Gaming
00:17:25
Speaker
I just want to ask both of you, like, why why do you think that is? It might seem obvious for some folks, but let's dive into this a little deeper. Why do you think that's the case?
00:17:38
Speaker
Well, raise your hand. I can't see your hand. Oh, Catherine. Yeah. Yes. Um, why do I think that is, um, partially it's going to come down to, I think just culture and society. I mean, I think that's just a big overarching thing to where
00:18:03
Speaker
I mean, I don't have enough answers. Obviously I'm from Gen X.
00:18:10
Speaker
And this sort of, I mean, even at my age, this sort of gaming stuff was rare even amongst men, like only the biggest nerds and dweebs are into it. So it wasn't even well brought there. So it's definitely not being invited for women to be a part of and whatnot.
00:18:38
Speaker
Do you think about in your case, do you think about like the fact that like, do you think about this at all like?
00:18:45
Speaker
you being that do you think about being a woman playing these games with you being Gen X and your situation in the cultural aspect like you mentioned that even something like like you take a step back and think about or is it just kind of like whatever. Right. Because we're pretty progressive these days. Yeah. I'd say most of the time I don't think about it, but it's it's come up on a few times where.
00:19:08
Speaker
encounter just a gaming situation and you know I'm used to by now I'm seeing you know whatever game I'm at you know there's a bunch of men up at the table and very rarely seeing another woman and I've just become very used to it to a point where I don't think about it most of the time yeah but it has been improving of course
00:19:34
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, Emily was becoming more mainstream for everyone, which is great. Yeah. What do you think, Emily? Yeah, like, I mean, I do think a lot of it obviously is a is a culture thing. Right. Like, you know, I am am I millennial, technically? I think I'm a millennial. But like you're ruining this country is all I'm saying. So.
00:20:02
Speaker
like, I mean, but you know, when I was a kid, I mean, like, there were like, you know, video games were for boys, and you know, toy spaceships were for boys, and you know, like that kind of thing, right? Like, I mean, you know, when I was a kid, like, that's how it was. And I, I think it's less that way nowadays. Like, I also don't have kids and don't like have a lot of close friends who have kids either. So like, I don't really like know.
00:20:24
Speaker
But like, um, I like how far that's progressed for kids, but like, you know, it, it kind of starts when you're young, you know, the, you know, boys toys versus girl toys and that kind of thing. And, you know, so it's just sort of this subtle, like cultural thing that encourages boys to go, you know, in certain directions and girls to go in another. Right. And so what's, what's been interesting to me, like,
00:20:53
Speaker
looking around nowadays it's I actually feel like I see more women particularly doing things like RPG gaming or like more like or like board gaming not necessarily like tabletop gaming but like board gaming you know but not as many I don't see as many doing like x-wing or other tabletop games yeah the miniature scene is taking a bit longer to integrate
00:21:21
Speaker
Yeah, it's slower, definitely, it feels like.
Challenges for Women in Tabletop Gaming
00:21:26
Speaker
And I'm assuming that's partly because tabletop games are so crunchy, maybe. There's that extra barrier to entry that maybe doesn't even necessarily, it's not as gendered necessarily, but there is that sort of extra barrier to entry there where it's like, you have to have a lot of free mental space
00:21:51
Speaker
to contemplate really diving into a game like X-wing, at least to the point where you're coming out and being seen as part of the community. Obviously, we have no idea how many women are playing tabletop X-wing, because we just don't know, right? But at least in terms of
00:22:07
Speaker
getting deep enough into the game to like come out to tournaments and, you know, do stuff out in the community and be seen, right? Like there's, there is a level of, you know, commitment there that's not as deep for other games, right? And, you know, if you're
00:22:28
Speaker
you know, if you're a, if you're a woman, you know, statistically, you're also more likely, if you're an adult woman, you're statistically more likely to be like doing more household work, more, you know, kids work, like that kind of thing, right. And so you've just got that much less space than versus a male counterpart.
00:22:49
Speaker
especially if you have a family, you have that much less space to be doing other stuff. I know all kinds of guys playing X-Wing who have families. Their families sometimes do impact whether they can show up for events, but they still seem to be able to have the space to make it work. But maybe that's tougher for women? I don't know. I think families is definitely a big natural part of it. If you have a family, I think it makes it more complicated.
00:23:19
Speaker
Yeah. Versus, you know, makes every hobby more complicated. Yeah. Yeah. And also Star Wars. This is a Star Wars game. And I mean, I'll be honest, I don't know a ton of women who like actually actively like love Star Wars. You know, Star Wars is very popular and it's very, you know, pop culture like it's become with Disney very, very popular. But it doesn't necessarily mean that people share a deep rooted love enough
00:23:44
Speaker
for it to be playing games like Star Wars X way, you know. Well, right. I think that. Oh, sorry.
00:23:51
Speaker
go ahead. I was just gonna say, I think that goes back to what I said about, you know, toys, spaceships being for boys, and you know, that kind of like, there was this just kind of like, you know, Star Wars is about, you know, you know, spaceships, shooting and laser swords and high adventure, and that sort of stuff is just like, you know, in society that's deemed as more of a, you know, a guy thing or whatever, right?
00:24:20
Speaker
I'm gonna dissent on the Star Wars thing a bit. I think within the past two decades we've seen a lot more acceptance of women as Star Wars fans. Especially I come from a cosplay background as well. So I am accustomed to seeing women embracing Star Wars in this regard.
00:24:45
Speaker
and seeing just a lot of fans. But taking that fandom and trying to apply it to a game that requires a tactical mindset as well as a competitive mindset is an extra bridge.
00:25:02
Speaker
Yeah, and I don't want anyone to think that I was suggesting that there isn't plenty of women who do love Star Wars, especially have been to Star Wars Celebration, very apparent that there's great diversity of fans. But if you were to just take pockets of random places around your local game stores, it would skew still.
00:25:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's just the way it is. But yeah, you're right. It's a good point. Andrew, go ahead with the next question. You could probably skip the first part of it because we kind of answered that already. Yeah, I think that's why I was trying to get around that, though. But has being a woman
00:25:43
Speaker
impacted your introduction or just being a part of the X-Wing community in general?
Personal Experiences in X-Wing
00:25:49
Speaker
Positive or, you know, or negatively? And is there, and yeah, I guess what was your personal experience in coming to X-Wing and being in X-Wing?
00:26:04
Speaker
Go ahead. What? Go ahead. Okay, me first this time. All right. So, um, like, yeah, so as far as being a woman in the hobby, so like, I got into the hobby through my husband, who originally was like, he's the big Star Wars nerd. Yeah, you got to start somewhere. Yeah. And so he was like, Oh,
00:26:29
Speaker
there's this, you know, there's these Star Wars tabletop games, you know, X-Wing and Armada and stuff, we should look into this, you know. And so he just kind of dragged me along with him and, you know, it took me longer than him to like work my way up into like, okay, this is a game that I really, you know, enjoy and I'm really like playing and all that.
00:26:46
Speaker
And definitely like the first while it was like I was more of, you know, the tag along wifey who, you know, is just like showing up, you know, to play with him. And then, you know, I eventually became, you know, a player in my own right.
00:27:05
Speaker
And you know, yeah, and I did, you know, feel a little bit awkward about that initially, but like, also, I'm just, I'm a socially awkward, shy person. And so like, it's hard to, it's hard to divide the layers of social awkwardness between which ones have to do with me being a woman in a largely male space and which ones have to do with me just being awkward. I don't know if I can
00:27:35
Speaker
divide those layers of the onion, really? Because there are definitely times when I'm having a game, especially with somebody I don't know well. I will say the local St. Louis community, I can't remember having ever been anything but welcomed here.
00:27:55
Speaker
And broadly speaking, I think that's been my experience across all the stuff I've been to all throughout the Midwest. It's generally been just fine in that regard. There will always be those occasional awkward things of someone's being a little patronizing to you maybe, or someone just doesn't seem to know how to interact with you. And then you're like, are they awkward because I'm
00:28:23
Speaker
a female or are they awkward because they're awkward? Like, you know, I don't know. But, um, but yeah, like, it's, um, it's hard to, it's hard to like, say that there's been like a huge impact, but it is something that I'm aware of.
00:28:44
Speaker
I was, you know, aware of the awkwardness of it when I was first, you know, started playing. And then eventually I got comfortable with people and then it's fine. Like now I go out to a game night here in St. Louis and I don't even think about it, right? Yeah, that's great.
00:28:59
Speaker
it's, it's, you know, it's one of the aspects of me getting comfortable around other people. But it's not the only one. I'm also just awkward. Like, if I was to walk into a room full of women playing X-wing or something, I'd be equally awkward. Yeah. I have a room full of men playing X-wing, right? Like, it doesn't super matter in that sense. But yeah, I think it's been like, I don't
00:29:24
Speaker
Because I haven't really participated in a lot of other gaming communities outside of X-Wing, I don't know how it compares to the reception for women in X-Wing versus other games. But broadly speaking, my experience actually has been fairly positive.
00:29:47
Speaker
you know, it's so basically the reason, like, I feel like the reason women aren't playing X-wing is probably not because the atmosphere is per se unwelcoming. You know, other than just in the sense of the bare fact of it being dumb, you know, dominated by men or roomful men, other than that bare fact, I mean, I don't feel like it's ever been, for me, unwelcoming at all. Yeah, and that's great to hear. Yeah.
00:30:16
Speaker
Yeah, Catherine, how about you? Yeah, I can speak much the same as an introverted person. That's socially awkward. Definitely makes things a bit more complicated. As far as my background and stuff, gaming has been my life for a long time. I was first introduced at a young age to checkers and chess by my father, grandfather, great grandfather.
00:30:45
Speaker
played all sorts of, you know, card games and whatnot. So I got into that and got into gaming and definitely had a very tactical and strategic mindset from the beginning.
00:31:00
Speaker
I didn't get to do much gaming in high school, but once I got up high school and college, I got involved in a lot of different miniatures games throughout my life. So by the time I got to X-Wing, I was very experienced with the variety of games and had been accustomed to that sort of atmosphere.
00:31:24
Speaker
As far as X-Wing, just like Emily said, I'd say overall it's been a very positive experience. And again, I don't think anyone was doing anything on purpose. There have been, you know, the occasional awkward occasion with an individual where, again, you know, a situation is awkward. Are they being patronizing? It's kind of hard to tell.
00:31:49
Speaker
Um, but generally X-wing has been a good experience, especially, you know, what, how we got into it. It was 2015 or so. I forget when X-wing came out 2013, something I'm around then. Oh, wow. It's it's been around. So by then I had already been gaming for 15 years easily.
00:32:16
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, so you had you had just mentioned it briefly about, you know, detecting if you have felt like you were it was a factor if you were treated differently. But I do want to ask this. I mean, if maybe not just X-wing specifically, but do you feel like you were assumed to have like less competitive or comprehensive skill around the game or treated differently by somebody who just didn't know you because you were a woman playing?
00:32:46
Speaker
Yes, that has definitely happened on occasions, especially earlier in the 2000s. I encountered that a lot in different games. Which, you know, on the plus side meant they underestimated me a lot. So, extra wins, I'll take them. But, yeah, that has definitely occurred on a number of occasions.
00:33:10
Speaker
As far as X-Wing, not so much. Occasionally, they'll play a game or so where I maybe have a slight vibe that maybe they are underestimating me. But for the most part, the X-Wing community has been positive. Great to hear it. Emily, what about you?
00:33:32
Speaker
Yeah, I can't think of any specific examples, right? Like, I have the vague sense that like, yeah, there have been times here and there where I've gotten the sense of like, you know, maybe someone's like, and again, like, it's, if it has happened, it's been subtle enough that it hasn't been like, you know, in your face, like obvious that that's what they're doing, right? Like, I, I occasionally have had the
00:34:00
Speaker
you know, the sort of thing where like somebody's surprised by a move you made and you feel like they were like, oh, they were, you know, they were underestimating you, you know, or something like that, right? Like that happens now and then, but like nothing like blatant or in your face. Like I, yeah, I luckily do not feel like I've ever really had that kind of experience specifically in X-Wing. And that's great to hear.
00:34:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think chauvinism is certainly something that whether or not people are really intending to do it is something that can come out in cases where you're like at a tournament and you know you play somebody who maybe doesn't know you.
00:34:42
Speaker
it maybe they they're over explaining because they think that you don't know what they're doing or don't know that don't fully grasp the strategy or or have and I don't know where that idea comes from it's just an inherently flawed part of human nature that's existed for a very very very long time you know I know I know of a good friend of mine I won't you know name drop or anything but his uh his wife played x-wing for a little bit and she had experienced some chauvinism and and kind of
00:35:08
Speaker
condescending behavior from men because she was a woman um playing the game and um you know she didn't assume that they were trying to be a bad person but you kind of you take that the wrong way because it's not a fair way to treat somebody um and
00:35:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's just it's just it's interesting. I think most people, you know, we collectively, the four of us know most of the same people in the competitive X-wing scene. We've been, you know, we've been all over playing at different events. We've been, you know, podcasting with people, streaming with people, whatever, right? So yeah, we don't experience most people we know don't act like that.
00:35:48
Speaker
You also have players coming from all over the place, different backgrounds, some more ignorant, some who don't know any better, not as an excuse, but they just don't know any better, and there's a lot of factors, right? Yeah, I just know my personal experience coming from the Magic the Gathering community.
00:36:08
Speaker
which is just such a large community in general. I've heard from what I've heard from friends too, a lot of it comes down to your local store or local group culture.
00:36:25
Speaker
Um, where, you know, we've been lucky enough to be living in, um, Chicago, like for our personal stores here, um, have a very, have a zero tolerance policy for, um, any sort of, of behavior that would be, uh, against, um, any gender whatsoever. Um.
00:36:48
Speaker
And I think that everyone in those stores and stuff respects that. And so it doesn't allow it to exist or permeate here. And so, yeah, having your local store culture is a big aspect of it too, if you're out there listening. Yeah, definitely be a good ambassador for not just the game, but for
00:37:12
Speaker
equality and comfort amongst all players. You know, making sure that people want to come back no matter for, you know, for no matter who they are. They have that they feel welcome. And that that leads to our last question, actually. I'm Andrew. I'll throw it to you.
00:37:26
Speaker
Yeah, sure. So I was just thinking, if you had any thoughts too, if there's some ways that X-Wing or the gaming community can diversify, or is there anything that X-Wing needs to do to be more welcoming to female gamers or gamers who are even antisocial?
00:37:49
Speaker
I think the best thing we have going on right now is I've encountered a lot of X-wing players that have daughters and sons as well that they are teaching and growing up and having exposed to these opportunities and I think that's our primary
00:38:14
Speaker
at least for gaming in general, avenue for making gaming more inclusive, just getting into the next generation as for X-Wing specifically, because you can't promise X-Wing will last to the next generation.
Inclusivity in Gaming for Children
00:38:30
Speaker
But just being open to allowing additional players to join in, no gatekeeping.
00:38:45
Speaker
And there are ways to keep that isn't just like gatekeeping by like curb stomping your opponent with your meta list instead of trying to like help them learn. That's another that's there's very many ways you can gate keep people out of coming back. Yes, that is. I've I've been a game demo before and also being a woman. There is the conscientiousness of when I'm demoing a game to make sure I am not.
00:39:18
Speaker
I don't know how to word this graph properly. Obviously, I don't want to assume that they have no idea what they're doing. But I also want to make sure I'm teaching them. So gauging where their level is without making any assumptions before I start instructing. Yeah, and that's a skill in and of itself is just teaching Xwing too because
00:39:47
Speaker
This is a complicated game that has a lot of strategy and a lot going on that, um, it took me a while to pick up on at least. So yeah, making it accessible for new players is just, that is just hard enough as a skill on its own, despite trying to overcome anything else.
00:40:08
Speaker
Yeah, miniatures games just have that additional, you know, entry point of what you have to learn to be able to do it. Yeah. How about the Terror Rastle?
00:40:21
Speaker
Yeah, no, I don't have much to add to that because yeah, like, I mean, at the end of the day, like, just keep trying to make your communities like, you know, positive and friendly. And, you know, if a female person, you know, shows up to play at your store,
00:40:42
Speaker
you know, treat them more or less like you would anybody else, you know, like, that because that's the thing is like, I just want to show up to be an event and just, you know, be treated the same as anybody else. That's all that's all I want, you know, like, that's, and it's not it's not that big of a, you know, it's not the big of a barrier. I mean, like, you know, we're all awkward and stuff. So like, obviously, you know,
00:41:12
Speaker
that social awkwardness is going to happen. But like, you know, just as much as you can just, you know, treat everybody the same as you can. And, and that's like all we can do. I do agree with the thing that Catherine said about, you know, indoctrinating the next generation, like, absolutely. That's the word.
00:41:36
Speaker
There it is. Yep. Obviously, don't brainwash them. Just give them introduction. It's apparently fun. This is an option you don't have to play, but when we're exposed to more opportunities, then we can express our own independent interests. I mean, right. As somebody who demoed X-Wing a couple of times as well,
00:42:05
Speaker
I think the number one goal, like above all else, I mean, obviously you're trying to teach the game, but the number one goal is to not overwhelm the person or people that you are, that you have at the table. Like keep them engaged.
00:42:20
Speaker
as Andrew said, it's not, you know, it might seem like one of the simpler, complicated games versus all the other games we could be playing right now, but it's still complicated. Don't overwhelm, you know, whether, and this goes for any situation with anybody, whether you are demoing or it's a new, you know, a new player, a returning player, a kid, somebody that you're trying to kind of pass the torch to or bring into your community. You need to be mindful of how your,
00:42:45
Speaker
you know, how you're behaving and acting and teaching with them, because if you overwhelm them, you know, there's a lot of reasons why people don't play this game. It's not like this game is played by hundreds of thousands of people. We're talking like maybe right now, thousands, a couple. I could boldly ballpark it.
00:43:04
Speaker
But people walk over and say, that looks really cool, but it seems really complicated. It's the two things that I hear all the time. I try to explain to my dad what shields and hole were. And he's like, you lost me. So some people can't be saved. But other people, it's just you have to breadcrumbs. Be careful with how you how you plant the seeds of the game.
00:43:25
Speaker
Well, I would say X-Wing is also probably one of the harder games to teach just because on top of the tactics and strategy, there's also spatial reasoning involved. It's a lot to learn and adjust to the maneuvers and where you're going to be and where they're going to be. And you don't have boxes or squares or inches to measure who's doing what where.
00:43:52
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Human, the human element that the human error is just a big part of the game because, you know, you set up a ship at a one degree off angle that matters. It all matters. Yeah. You just got to, you know, practice doing geometry in your head really well until it's just a vibe to you. And and then you can't explain to anybody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Math is not people's strong suit. No, no. Sure. Yeah. I mean, this is really
00:44:21
Speaker
It's not only is it an interesting conversation, but I think it's something that because we've gotten to a really good place overall with women in Star Wars, with the progress that we've made with women in
Progress in Gender Inclusion
00:44:35
Speaker
gaming.
00:44:35
Speaker
Although X-Wing doesn't have a ton of female representation right now, I feel like two of you are great leaders and figures of the community who happen to be women, which is awesome. But I mean, we're in a place now where we've gotten progressive enough, we're more welcoming, but it still could be better. I would still love to see more representation in X-Wing and in all gaming. I think we would all
00:45:05
Speaker
prefer that, right? Absolutely. But it's not something you get to solve. And there are some we go back to culture upbringing, societal perspectives and stereotypes and everything. And those are all pretty big barriers that we've started to chip away at. Yeah.
00:45:23
Speaker
And I mean, I will say, you know, just from from my perspective that we're, I mean, I think it's a lot from what I've noticed since I've been playing just competitive games. It's it's been better for me lately. I've seen like more representation in just the past five years than I have, like in the last 10 years. And so it's great that it's moving in the right direction.
00:45:51
Speaker
obviously still a long way to go, but I'm definitely happy to see where where it's been going. Yeah, we really need is just we need a cultural injection of miniatures games in the mainstream. Yes. Like we need a critical role of miniatures games that would introduce a lot of people and make people who have never even thought about these things interested in trying to include a lot of women. Yeah.
00:46:21
Speaker
Emily, did you bring up RPGs earlier? Was that you? Yeah. That's a really great point. Because RPGs are really diver. They're so popular now. Everybody's playing an RPG, I feel like. Yes, they are on a huge upswing right now. And that's partially to do things like Critical Role. Yeah, you mentioned Critical Role. Yeah, exactly.
00:46:44
Speaker
Um, definitely. I mean, so any, for any closing or additional things about this or, uh, move on. Nope. Uh, for any woman that's hearing this or any person at all, uh, feel free to try things and just have fun. That's all that really matters.
00:47:08
Speaker
I think it's, I wanted to put Emily on the spot here. You know, Emily, you and Clint both play X-wing. I know Clint's probably not playing X-wing as much right now, but you've gotten to the point in your relationship where you just despise playing each other, whether it's at events or casually, because you have to live with each other. I just, that's amazing.
00:47:25
Speaker
Yeah, we basically can't play against each other anymore because we're both too competitive, we're both too perfectionist. And the problem is when you live with someone and you're really close to them and
00:47:44
Speaker
you know and you're married to them and all that and like you you let your guard down and you instead of put instead of you know when when you lose a ship instead of you know putting on your nice face and you know uh moving along you you allow yourself to feel emotions about that and then you know you those emotions vibe off the other person's emotions and then it's just a downward spiral into hell and so you know then you maybe just don't play each other anymore
00:48:13
Speaker
Yeah, you get to be toxic. Oh, that's incredible. All my past relationships do not want to play games with me.
00:48:28
Speaker
It's amazing. So we need to teach it to the next generation, but not get too competitive with them. Yeah, right. Keep the games at home fun. Unless you're to a point where you can safely compete against Joe like the Patrick or something.
00:48:48
Speaker
right i remember i had an ex-girlfriend where we were playing monopoly with my family and we were very into it my family and she like had to have a talk with me after the game was over he's like what's going on yeah that's uh mine too it's like especially games like monopoly ever anything can be a deal everything's on the table like we're we're trading you know who's gonna do dishes or mow the lawn like wow um
00:49:14
Speaker
it's it gets cut throat yeah uh there are alliances my like
00:49:20
Speaker
my brother tanked a game once so that he knew that he was going to lose, but he wanted to make it so that I couldn't win. Like when you start bringing family spite into games, yeah, that's always great. Yeah, X-Wing is a game, I think I mentioned it before, where X-Wing is a game that does make me feel tilt more than I think any other game that I've played because it's just a game where if you make one mistake,
00:49:49
Speaker
you pay for it for possibly the next 30 to 40 minutes. Like every single turn, you've fallen off a ladder and you're just hitting every rung on the way down.
00:50:03
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, there's a lot of dice in X-wing, but it feels like, whether accurately or not, it feels like you have so much agency over what's going on. And so then it feels like when you make a mistake, because X-wing has always felt very like chess-like to me, you know, in the sense that like, obviously there's variance and it probably affects maybe more than we think it is. I don't know. It's hard to tease out the difference, but yeah, absolutely. It feels like you have so much agency
00:50:32
Speaker
over this outcome and then you do something wrong and you're like, ah, the whole thing is ruined. Yeah, and PSA to those of you out there, whether it be within your family or with your partner, make sure you play games that you both actually want to play. Don't force somebody to play a game that you like because you like it. And if you are going to play a game, I recommend less PVP and more cooperative where you can.
00:51:00
Speaker
Because, you know, in X-wing, the idea of you destroying your girlfriend or, you know, your girlfriend destroying their boyfriend or whatever, you know, you're you might make them feel bad. So actually, when I hear folks play HODAC. Yes. Yes. I was going to say when the occasional time is where my girlfriend will play with me, I use the X-wing AI and we're always on the same team.
00:51:29
Speaker
Mm hmm. And and we're going up against opponents just from the A.I. Smart man. And and that is also it's a great way to introduce people into the game as well. Mm hmm. Because it's you know, they don't have to feel like they're going up against a veteran. And even when we have people at the store like, yeah, splitting the squad and they're not, you know, they have to worry about commanding like a whole bunch of ships, maybe one or two. And it can be very fun.
00:51:57
Speaker
When you take the idea of losing off the table, it becomes more appealing sometimes. Yes. Yeah, I think HOTAC was probably the first thing I played. I don't remember for sure, but right around the time when Clint and I started playing, there was also a HOTAC game going. And I remember joining that HOTAC game really on. That was a thing that appealed to me as I was starting in. And I got competitive later.
00:52:21
Speaker
I still do enjoy some PvE X-Wing, absolutely, or PvE anything. Like, co-op games are my favorite type of games. Co-op games are my favorite, too. Hotack is how I got into X-Wing. Oh, yeah. And then I realized that, oh, I've acquired an entire faction. So maybe I'll try playing it competitively. There you go.
00:52:47
Speaker
All right, let's let's let's talk about Ahsoka. We'll try not to talk about Ahsoka for too long. This is a part, you know, part of the the podcast now, which I think by the time this episode comes out will be that we might be at the end or almost at the end of the show. So spoiler alert for those of you that might be behind or haven't started it yet. We won't go too deep into the spoilers, but I just I know that it is important to you all. It's important to me. So we're going to give the spoiler alert. Yeah, we're going to talk talk episodes one through five.
00:53:17
Speaker
Episodes one through five. So first let's do this. Let's go broad.
Ahsoka Series Impressions
00:53:21
Speaker
I'm gonna ask each one of you individually for your first impression of the show. I challenge you to keep it within just like a few sentences. Like what were your, you know, a couple of things that you liked your impression. So Catherine, I'll have you first, I'll have you start first. What are your impressions of Ahsoka?
00:53:38
Speaker
Real simple. This show's amazing. I love it. We're getting a awesome deep dive into the mystical side of Star Wars. It's a great compliment to what Andor was doing. And I'm all for it. Nice. Emily.
00:54:02
Speaker
Yeah, broadly speaking, I have enjoyed it. I thought it started slow, but it's picking up steam. I have probably some nitpicks, but overall, broadly speaking, I'm enjoying it. Andrew, I know you and I have some overlapping opinions, but I'll obviously throw it to you.
00:54:22
Speaker
Yeah, I'm going to say that I agree. One, it's gorgeous. The cinematography is phenomenal. The audio is phenomenal. I have some nitpicks with just like the characters, but overall, I think it's fine. But yeah, it definitely starts off slow, and then it's getting better.
00:54:45
Speaker
Yeah, for me, I mean, I'm a provocateur with certain things. I can come off as a bit of an ass when it comes to my opinions on things, but with the Soka, you know, keeping in mind that both Andrew and I both really like rebels in Clone Wars, you know, for the most part, which is an important note to make before stating this opinion.
00:55:03
Speaker
I was a little bit bored for a while. I just, you know, I wasn't disengaged completely. I was watching it right as it came out. I was still enjoying it, but I was a little bit bored. So as Emily said, it was start off slow, picked up steam. 100% agree with that. I'm a lot more hooked now without going into too much detail. It took a while to get there. And yeah, we have bones to pick with certain things or maybe, you know, some of us do. But now, yeah.
00:55:30
Speaker
I'm curious to see where the next couple episodes go, because we're almost at the end point of season one already. So I'm curious, Catherine, when you're saying that we're getting introduced to the mysticism side of Star Wars, because I think I may have missed something on understanding that part of it. And so I was curious on what mysticism is in the show. Are they going over?
00:55:59
Speaker
Oh, sure. I mean, we've got Jedi, we've got a Nightsister, we've got a Dark Jedi with Balan. He's got his own apprentice. He's teaching in this mixed Jedi but not Jedi sort of way. We've got a former Inquisitor who has also got some other stuff going on that we maybe don't have an answer on yet as of episode 5, but green smoke.
00:56:27
Speaker
World between worlds. World between worlds. We got that. You know, Anakin makes an appearance. Is he a force ghost? Is he a memory? Some combination of the two. We're getting a lot of the high fantasy. So so Braylon isn't like a Sith. He's something. He's a dark Jedi. So do they do they go over what dark Jedi are in any other media?
00:57:01
Speaker
As far as live action or animated media, I don't think there are any canon representations of Dark Jedi. Of course, they appear often in Legends. The first example that jumps to my mind is
00:57:28
Speaker
Dark forces Not dark horses to Jedi Knight to Jedi outcast The sequel to dark horses to yeah with Jarrick and his game. Okay? Spoilers for a game that came out This point, you know, yeah, I think you're safe
00:57:52
Speaker
We've all seen Rebels in Clone Wars, I assume, right? I think only Emily's the only one I don't know for a fact if you haven't seen. Yeah, I've seen Rebels in Clone Wars, yeah. Okay, so what's really kind of interesting about this show is that from what we've gotten so far with the shows to now, we have
00:58:11
Speaker
Everything is kind of at a slightly more mainstream level, whereas if you weren't into Rebels and Clone Wars, you could easily get into it. Obi-Wan, Book of Boba Fett, your opinions on it, whatever. That's a side. The Mandalorian especially, right? And Andor.
00:58:30
Speaker
versus this show, Ahsoka, if you are rewarded for being a deep fan who did appreciate and watch Rebels and Clone Wars, and if you didn't, I think this is a show that you're really going to struggle with a lot.
00:58:45
Speaker
I would assume so. Because if you literally didn't watch Clone Wars, didn't watch, you know, Rebels, you're not really going to understand the context of these characters. Like you, you're still following more or less what's going on because they did, you know, and that's again, probably part of why I was more bored in the first few episodes is because they were doing some stuff that was like kind of giving context to like who these characters are a little bit, you know, like,
00:59:12
Speaker
which was information that I didn't need to know because I already knew it, right? Which is interesting, right? Because they're almost like introducing it to people, but you know that those people who need an introduction to it are probably not interested.
00:59:27
Speaker
Right. Yeah, they're either not watching it at all because they don't care or if they are watching it, they need probably more information than what you're giving them. Like a lot. Right. Yeah, it's for no one because it's definitely like they're taking like that Marvel approach where it's like, look, you either you saw the old stuff or you didn't. Uh huh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:59:46
Speaker
Yeah, Filoni is, you know, most people know Filoni as the architect behind, you know, he's the Lucas guy. He was kind of his protege. Like he was hired by Lucas. He stuck around with the transition to Disney. And he's been the architect behind Clone Wars and and Rebels and also just all the animated content he's been involved with.
01:00:06
Speaker
Now he's, you know, making the transition over to live action. He's done so with Amanda Warren already. He's doing it with this this show with Ahsoka. And yeah, I mean, it's rewarding if you invested in the stuff that a lot of people dismissed as, you know, kids shows is, you know, one off content that wasn't worth their time.
01:00:25
Speaker
you know, he takes care of you. That's what Filoni's known for. He's the passionate Star Wars fan that wants you to know that he cares about what you care about. I mean, yeah, it came across in Rebels and the Clone Wars. Wow, those were great shows. And these are characters that he's been with like the whole time. So yeah, it's interesting to see that that carried forward.
01:00:45
Speaker
Yeah, let's do this now. So let's start with Catherine. Catherine, what is one highlight of the show that you've really, really enjoyed and then maybe something that you maybe don't like as much if you have something negative?
Favorite Ahsoka Scenes
01:01:00
Speaker
One highlight. Man, that is hard. But I'm going to go with Bayland's goal. I love his character.
01:01:09
Speaker
everything he's got going on, he's very engrossing into what his background is and how he approaches things and what his goals are. Also, he's very attractive. Rest in peace, by the way. Yes, I'm fortunate for Ray Stevenson passing away. Great character. But yeah, Bailin Skoll so far has been a fantastic character to see on screen, and I'm looking forward to further resolution on
01:01:37
Speaker
what I already know, but I'm not gonna talk about spoilers. Is there anything you haven't really liked about the show? Something I have not really liked. The silence means it's a good sign. It means you really like it. That's good. Yeah, come back to me. Maybe I'll think of something. Sure, sure. Emily highlighted something. So, yeah, so far,
01:02:08
Speaker
My favorite scene sequence, whatever, has been, you know, the whole Anakin, you know, Force Vision or whatever it was, dream sequence, like, you know, that's, that was just really like, cool and emotional and all that stuff. And, you know, especially as somebody who's seen both Clone Wars and Rebels, right? Like, that was a big, like, you know, throwback moment.
01:02:35
Speaker
um and all that so that was like that's like a scene that like majorly you know sticks out to me as something i really loved um as far as gripes or whatever uh so i'm gonna say that um bailance apprentice whose name i don't even remember shin hati hati okay there we go thank you um
01:03:05
Speaker
I feel like I just personally felt like her character is a little corny and also doesn't have enough, like, underpinning. She just sort of there, like, like, Balan has this thing. He's like a dark Jedi, whatever, blah, blah, blah. But like, she's just sort of like there being sort of like corny and emo. And I don't know. I don't know how to feel about her. Like, what are her motivations?
01:03:31
Speaker
Yeah, we have no motivations. We know literally nothing about her other than she's over enthusiastic about force choking people and stabbing them with white papers. That's all that I know about her. And I wish there was more to her.
01:03:47
Speaker
That's I guess I would say probably. Watch episode six, Emily. Okay, why haven't we got to the next episode? Okay, so maybe after episode six, I will change that opinion, but so far. For those listening, Emily has not seen episode six, so we're just being mindful of that in our conversation. Or, you know, you the listener may or may not have seen episode six. Yeah, it's not just me. So we're being mindful of you, even though we issued the spoiler alert warning, I would hope that would have been enough.
01:04:13
Speaker
I mean, six just came out. So that's true. But by the time people hear this right, by the time this comes out, it's all weird for everybody. It's weird. It's just the downside about podcasting is it happens in the past. It happens in the past. Hello, people in the future. Am I more handsome in the future? Andrew, but yeah, we are. Yeah. Boy, this is I would say like this is one of the most like
01:04:41
Speaker
beautiful shows I think that the the the cinematography the even like the CGI is incredible you can tell that there's just so much attention to detail there and the the sound mixing the the audio is also spectacular and incredible and they do like these really cool things where
01:05:01
Speaker
Um, you know, if they elude to like the dark side of the forest, they'll have like a sound clip of like Darth Vader and hailing or something. Like they, they do these like little tweaks that are next budget is like, man, like rogue one. Yeah, seriously, it is. It's it's like that. It's so great. Um, I would say that I honestly also want to bail in is such a huge, um, highlight in and is incredible. One of my favorite characters. The second is, um,
01:05:31
Speaker
uh, fulcrum, the droid that, uh, who yang, who yang. Okay. So who yang was Soka, right? Yeah, that was her. Okay. So who yang, the, uh, the, the droid has been, um, fun, offers some good, like a comic relief and is, I think one of the more like well-developed characters on the show as well. Um, and if I have to go to my grave, which is, um, you know, if I, I feel like.
01:06:01
Speaker
Huyang and Balan are probably the two more developed characters that are on the show. And I was really kind of struck in this and it came to be kind of in when I was watching episode four again, like how little dialogue there actually was in the first
01:06:26
Speaker
couple episodes and I'm not saying like more exposition, but most characters like in episode four, most characters don't have lines that are longer than one or two sentences. And I think that that is leading to some of the characters to me feeling flat and and maybe one dimensional where you have you have a soca who is angry. You have Sabine who is angry.
01:06:57
Speaker
And you have Hera who is annoyed. And sometimes, and that's kind of it. Soak and Sabine's scenes are very short with each other, right? Yeah, and that's my take. And then also part of it too is
01:07:19
Speaker
that there apparently is a rift between like Ahsoka and Sabine, I think they bring it up in episode four, where Ahsoka had betrayed Sabine some way and possibly gotten her seren and maybe her brother killed, like her family killed. And I don't know if that's in different media, but part of me is like, well, why isn't that season one? Like, if we're taking off right after rebels, like that
01:07:49
Speaker
may have been a better season one than tracking down McGuffin. I'll be too late to pay that off too right now in the first season. Absolutely. I'll go really quick.
01:08:01
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, I echo a lot of what Andrew said. I struggle a lot. I think there is a bit of a back and forth with folks on where they stand on Sabine. I like Sabine as a character in Rebels. I really struggle with Sabine in this show. She's betrayed Ahsoka multiple times.
01:08:21
Speaker
I'm just wondering, what are you doing here? What is your job? What are you trying to accomplish? She's always been more rogue, but she's very destructive in this show. In a level of chaotic that is, I'm wondering what they're trying to get at with how they're writing her character. As you said, Ahsoka and Sabine together, the dialogue is the shortest of any scene. When they're in the same room, there's really not much that they say to each other. It's very short and quick.
01:08:51
Speaker
I know people say, well, that's on purpose. I get it. Could be. But it doesn't mean that I, it doesn't mean it's good or super engaging. So I think Sabine, it might be on the cusp of a bigger character arc that we're kind of been just waiting on, I would hope. We'll see. But yeah, I mean, there's a lot of characters and a lot of them are not really fleshed out. And those that are are fleshed out from previous media that we've already been exposed to. Yeah.
01:09:20
Speaker
So there's a bit of a challenge. I said the thing I don't really like. The thing I really do like about it is I'm here for Hayden's redemption. He's gotten multiple opportunities to redeem himself. I think I absolutely love that Star Wars has done that with Ahmed Best who played Jar Jar Binks in The Mandalorian and also what they've done with Hayden.
01:09:42
Speaker
It's awesome. And they both deserve it. It makes me emotional. Like, I mean, it's it's it's it's just really important to me. And that episode with Ahsoka and Hayden, not only was it really cool, but that might be one of the greatest transitions, like character transitions of Anakin walking away and then becoming Vader and then like in the heat of battle.
01:10:07
Speaker
Manny and I were watching it together and we screamed like I wish we would have recorded it. We were screaming. Yeah, we were it was it was just awesome. So it made me feel like, you know, the kind of nostalgia and great feelings as a kid when you watch this stuff, it made me feel like a kid again. So I really, really, that episode, I really needed it was that episode.
01:10:30
Speaker
four or five. That was five. That's the one I just. Yeah, I was five. I really needed that kickstarter because I was kind of sleeping on the show until that episode. So, yeah, I think that they did a good job of tasteful fan service for that and the things that we wanted to see with Ahsoka and her relationship with Anakin. I don't think that's going to save the writing, just making a bunch of cameos. And I think the show knows that. So.
01:10:57
Speaker
Again, we'll, we'll, we'll see, but that those are my thoughts. Any, any rebuttal, Catherine, you've been quiet. I'm really curious. Uh, I disagree with so many things. Yeah. No, that's great. It's all awesome. That's good. But where's that? Yeah. Well, I was good. Yeah. You were tapped into things that I completely missed too. So, you know, I'm not, I'm not doubting that, that, you know, I might even be coming at this from a point of ignorance for sure.
01:11:25
Speaker
Yeah, you ignorant man. I'm just also into the police. Yeah, and that's the thing. I wish I was more like that. I'm not the biggest proponent of Dave Filoni as a live action director, but I love him. So I think he's a huge part of the success of Star Wars moving forward. And if he takes over for Lucasfilm, I think that would be great. I wouldn't mind that.
01:11:51
Speaker
He's we're lucky to have him and I think this show is going to stand out as one of the better shows when it's all said and done I think I would put it around obi-wan whether it be better or
Ahsoka vs. Obi-Wan Series
01:12:01
Speaker
worse. I don't know. It's not over. Yeah It's definitely better than I'll be worse. I was that much I would put it as better than obi-wan. I think and or is Probably unanimously like number one for a while. I
01:12:14
Speaker
sure it's hard to top though and then will it be yeah so good number two would make sense um i like they'll be one so i put it still as number two or three but um
01:12:25
Speaker
I like Obi-Wan, but it has it has some very big flaws. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, this show, I mean, you and I disagree on this, but I think this show has some pretty big flaws for like four episodes. But you and I again don't see eye to eye on that. So it's just like our list will be different. That's the beauty of of of what we're doing here as we get to arguments are more fun. Gets the people going, you know. That's right. Pick a side. Get excited because Nick is just wrong about everything.
01:12:56
Speaker
Well, I'm used to being wrong about a lot of things. I wanted to say something more animated and interesting, but I couldn't think of something on the spot. Catherine, you're pretty good at putting people down and really putting them in their place. Oh, sure. I love to throw out some quips. Yeah. Sometimes I'm not ready for it. I'm like, whoa, it's good. It's like, oh, gosh. I only do that about people I really care about.
01:13:21
Speaker
Yeah, that's it. Yeah, it's definitely a term of endearment for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Rebels Characters in Ahsoka
01:13:28
Speaker
This is I definitely say I think that the show is better than Obi-Wan. It's better than Boba Fett in my book. And I will be I will be sticking with it for and it's been getting better. So I like what I've seen so far. One thing I mean, I'm also I feel like I'm also holding it to such a high bar because like I loved rebels so much.
01:13:52
Speaker
And Sabine is also one of my, probably my favorite character, like one of my favorite characters in the Star Wars universe like period from Rebels. So I was also definitely coming into this with like, you know, I guess maybe higher expectations than I would have given some other properties as well.
01:14:12
Speaker
Oh, and then Hera, too. I mean, Hera is also one of my favorite characters just from like, I even in the alphabet squadron books, you know, I'm like, I'm coming to this being like, oh, like the Hera that I know from like the books and stuff is like, is it is a certain way. And this may be differing from my expectations of that.
01:14:33
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I'd really like on my wish list is a little bit more mention of Canaan Jarrus. I think only once now have I heard his name spoken. Canaan is is is an incredible character made by Disney. One of the best characters created. Yeah, Canaan's phenomenal. Some sort of integration or memory doesn't have to be a flashback, doesn't have to be any cameo like weird flashback cameo, but something
01:14:59
Speaker
Because I think he's being overshadowed by just the fact that well, sorry spoilers that he's dead We won't talk about because he's dead
01:15:11
Speaker
Any last words on Andor, Orzoka? See, I think about Andor way too much. It's actually a political problem. I'm looking forward to the last two episodes and I think there is a lot of potential within them to shore up a couple things that are still missing in the narrative and of course delivers an amazing conclusion.
01:15:36
Speaker
Yeah no just definitely recommend that's you know that's where I'm at like yeah it's I'm sure it won't be Andor because it's difficult to top that but you know 100% recommend it for sure especially for anyone who's seen Clone Wars and Rebels. In a formal invitation to fight me in the ring if anybody doesn't like Andor.
01:15:57
Speaker
All right, guys, so I'm just going to quickly just drop a couple of upcoming events for you all. By the time you listen to this, Dragonfall will be coming up in a few days on October 7th and 8th in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin. So if you are in the Chicagoland or
01:16:13
Speaker
Wisconsin area and want to support a great cause. It's for charity. We'll be having two official X-Wing events on both the seventh and eighth like store champ level style, and we'll be streaming that. Andrew and I will be there. So check that out. We'll drop the link in the description as well as our good. I would say if you don't mind just taking a long drive, don't even have to be in the area. Come out, say hi. We're worth it, right? Yeah, absolutely. We are.
01:16:42
Speaker
We also have the Windy City Trials Turkey Trials Store champ on November 18th at Good Games Chicago. We have opened registration for that. We'll include a link as well for that if you're interested in visiting us at our local game store. I'd like to throw over to Emily and Catherine to give their shout out. So we'll start with Catherine. Sure. So if we can shout out anything. Yeah, sure. Get us an answer. No, not an insult. Two quick things, of course, you are
01:17:12
Speaker
there's also packs unplugged December 1st I will be there yes that's in Philadelphia and then as far as a shout out I'm very big on ending the fur industry so feel free to check out something called save a fox and be aware much appreciated I do enjoy the safe content they are awesome
01:17:41
Speaker
Emily. Yeah, well, obviously I have to shout out my own content. So, you know, if you want to hear some content that's a lot about games and occasionally about X-Wing, head over to the Midwest Scrubcast on your preferred podcast platform.
01:17:59
Speaker
And we also have a Discord that is fairly active if you're into the whole Discord community thing. You can find, I think on most of our episodes, there's a link to our Discord if you want to get in on the Discord conversation, which again is mostly about games and occasionally about X-Men. And we have a blog technically, but I think it's a dying, so, but if you want to... You want a sales pitch, please!
01:18:28
Speaker
If you want to catch it before it drops it's dying like this game, I swear
01:18:36
Speaker
No, no, I think xwing is leaving our blog behind. I think is what's happening. Um, but we do technically have a blog. There's some stuff out there. Maybe there's some relevant content on our blog, but you can check that out. It's also under Midwest scrub. It should be easily findable. I don't remember the, I don't even remember the URL. It's been that long since I thought we'll take care of that for you. You can link, you can link the people to where they need to go. Um, is it a geo cities, uh,
01:19:03
Speaker
It's a WordPress site. Yes, yeah, WordPress. It's like midwestscrub.wordpress.com or something like that. Yeah, I don't know. Yep. That's maybe it. That was beautiful. Amazing. Just fantastic. All right. Andrew, anything before I close this off? I was just going to say, yeah, you can find our Tumblr. No, I'm just kidding.
01:19:33
Speaker
on that note. Join us on MySpace, 312. We just want to get on all the almost dead platforms. But no, if you're in the area, if you're at Dragonfall, if you come to the Turkey Trot, too, always feel free to say hi. We would love to hear from you. And you can also send us an email or join our Discord if you have any questions and
01:20:00
Speaker
You can also drop some questions that we might get answered on the show. And I really appreciate it. So thank you so much for listening. Yeah. All right. So thank you, everyone, for listening to this episode, as Andrew said. And thank you, Emily and Catherine, for joining us tonight. It was an amazing conversation. And I really enjoyed the cathartic experience of talking about Ahsoka.
01:20:20
Speaker
Great. Appreciate that. When we return, I will break down my experience at Golden State Games will be my second year in a row going to that. And Manny will be back joining us in the cockpit for that episode. Be sure to follow us on Twitch, where we live stream tons of X-Wing and other things like me struggling immensely on Grandmaster at Jedi Survivor. You could watch our you could watch our edited videos on our YouTube channel.
01:20:44
Speaker
and go and like our page on Facebook. And then if that isn't enough, we also do have a Discord. So click the link in the podcast description. All the links will be there for everything we mentioned. And we look forward to connecting with you. Until next time, for 312 Squadron, I'm Nick Sperry. And I'm Andrew Kuba. And I'm Catherine. And you two go. And definitely. Woo! Bye. Thanks for having us.