Transcript
Speaker: Hey everybody, welcome to the EXIT Podcast.
Speaker: This is Dr. Bennett.
Speaker: I'm here with Indian Bronson, good friend of ours.
Speaker: I wanted to talk to you first about Miami, which you suffuse it with almost supernatural significance.
Speaker: almost prophetic significance.
Speaker: And I want to know, what does Miami mean to you?
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: So I'm very bullish on Miami as a city, you know, just from like a, just a structural perspective.
Speaker: You know, when other cities, cops are like, you know, taking a knee,
Speaker: with like defund the police movements or like rioters or whatever.
Speaker: You know, the city of Miami institutes an official anti-communist day and like it wasn't even like victims of Castro Day or like, you know, Mariel Butler, remember, say like it was just explicitly like this is an anti-communism day.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And that counts for something.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You know, that it's pretty, pretty rare that things are that explicitly stated in America.
Speaker: So
Speaker: You know, it's got all of that stuff going for it, which people will be familiar with because of Cuba's past with Florida, Miami's past.
Speaker: There's all of the Cadillo politics that our circle certainly perceive in terms of castizo-futurism and that and all that good stuff.
Speaker: But then on a more aesthetic level, I grew up, I'm a creature of the Northeast, very, very happy in the snow.
Speaker: There's something fundamentally buoyant about a city where, despite the rain, despite the hurricanes, it is just almost constantly sunny.
Speaker: I go out, I go out running in the mornings and like, it's just almost immediately, it's just bright sunlit.
Speaker: David O' People, people are happier here people are quicker to laugh here people are quicker to smile here yeah it's it's it's the sunshine state in terms of like where the US is going like.
Speaker: David O' I mean people are articles will know this like 2044 is I mean it's here already you know, like the census is pretty clear about that, I mean the demographic shift of North America is pretty strongly underway.
Speaker: And so I think a lot of people who, you know, I mean, when my own parents came to this country, you know, they came here in the early 80s.
Speaker: It's a very different America.
Speaker: And where I grew up is also still to this day a very, very different America from what will probably be the modal American experience.
Speaker: You know, if you want to see what navigating the waters, maybe riding the tiger even, you know, of what's coming down the pipeline over the next 10, 20, 30 years looks like, I think Miami is a great place to do it.
Speaker: This is really, this is going to be, you know, the entrepot of the Americas.
Speaker: This is going to be the American Dubai, the American Singapore.
Speaker: A lot of different peoples have confluence here and
Speaker: It's tragic in a way, I think, for for someone who is on the right, someone who is inclined to order someone who is inclined to traditionalism.
Speaker: It's there is a little bit of tragedy and saying, well, I guess we can't have these things anymore.
Speaker: Let's find something new.
Speaker: On the other hand, on the other hand,
Speaker: There's also something deeply Lindy, shall we say, about sallying forth and pursuing something new, you know, maybe even migrating or invading, you know, to new climes.
Speaker: You know, there's a lot of...
Speaker: You know, speaking frankly, you know, as a young man, like there are a lot of business opportunities here.
Speaker: There is a lot.
Speaker: There is a burgeoning tech ecosystem.
Speaker: There is a lot of capital here that wants to find something besides real estate.
Speaker: I mean, there's just so much commercial activity here that, you know, you'd be surprised what an enterprising person can do.
Speaker: And, you know, that's why do we think of Midwesterners the way we think of Midwesterners?
Speaker: Like when, you know, your listeners certainly imagine people in the Midwest, well, how'd they get there?
Speaker: They didn't get there in an easy way.
Speaker: They didn't spring from the soil.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: Like they're, yeah, they're not, they're not, they're not autochthonous is the term.
Speaker: They showed up, they showed up in big, you know, many, many people show up places in these big horse-drawn wagons.
Speaker: There's something about it.
Speaker: So come to Miami, come to Miami.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, speaking of invasion, do you think that, well, first of all, are there enough sort of tech bros who are headed that way
Speaker: that there's concern about it sort of just becoming another Bay Area or are those people staying put?
Speaker: Yeah, so if you go to Austin, there's an overpass, forgetting the name, I can just like Google it later, but if you just Google Austin homelessness, you'll find it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They are already developing the same problems that San Francisco was, and I don't think there's going to be a single city that is the new San Francisco.
Speaker: I think this tendency towards disorder and like...
Speaker: being okay with filth, valorizing poor conduct, holding criminals in high esteem, this weird sort of like California mentality that is also like very adjacent to being incredibly wealthy, incredibly enterprising, doing a lot of stuff, this weird amalgam
Speaker: I think this is basically the condition of most global cities.
Speaker: If you were to go to Delhi, if you were to go to Hanoi, if you were to go to, frankly, Johar Bahru in Malaysia, you see this kind of stuff.
Speaker: This is actually a norm.
Speaker: You get this kind of bimodal split where you have lots and lots of poor and then also lots and lots of wealthy people in a very small middle class.
Speaker: Unfortunately, I think that's what the U.S. is tending to with its greater and greater erosion of the middle class.
Speaker: So on the one hand, I think Austin is going to sop up a lot of the SF exodus that is liberal because they have, of course, their fantasies of, maybe not fantasies for long, of turning Texas blue.
Speaker: They see Austin as a lynchpin for that strategy.
Speaker: On the other hand, I believe...
Speaker: I know the Indian jokes are coming.
Speaker: Look, you know, I believe you can have a clean, safe, orderly society.
Speaker: This has been accomplished in many places over and over again, despite great problems to the contrary.
Speaker: And I think for now, we're just going to have to be in a mode where we're accumulating capital, you know, accumulating allies, gathering strength, planning, you know, becoming resilient.
Speaker: And this is, you know, we can talk more about this as the exit interview goes on.
Speaker: Figuring out how to clean up Austin or figuring out how to clean up San Francisco is not something we can do right now because we don't have power.
Speaker: And the task for us is really how do we become powerful or at least how do we become powerful enough that we can prevent these problems from swamping us?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: And that's that's such a constant problem among our people is like.
Speaker: they're like, well, how do we take action?
Speaker: How do we fix?
Speaker: How do we exercise our rights?
Speaker: And it's like, your rights are gone, man.
Speaker: Like that ship has sailed.
Speaker: Right now, it's time to knuckle down and build something so that you can have those rights again, or maybe your kids can't.
Speaker: Like that's, we gotta start taking a long view.
Speaker: And that's fundamentally what I'm about with Exit is, we're not talking about politics anymore.
Speaker: Like there's not a whole lot
Speaker: productive to be said in that space anymore.
Speaker: And, and, you know, so many people, when they, when they get there, they interpret that as like, well, it's time to start fed posting.
Speaker: And I'm like, that's the opposite of what it's time to do.
Speaker: It's, it's time to.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, I mean, so this is, I remember when, uh,
Speaker: I think it was Terry McAuliffe.
Speaker: They've been advancing anti-gun rights stuff in Virginia for years now.
Speaker: And there are two approaches that you can take to this.
Speaker: And one is like, well, if they try anything, we've got our guns.
Speaker: And the other approach is a more realistic one, which is like, I knew this was going to happen, so I bought all of the guns that I wanted years ago and, in fact, no longer live in Virginia, right?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You know, we'll see what happens with Corlett now brewing at the Supreme Court.
Speaker: But I have a sneaking suspicion the Supreme Court is not actually going to legalize the air 15s nationwide.
Speaker: And that, you know, the gun issue is a great example of this because it's such a perfect...
Speaker: virtual action of resistance.
Speaker: It's such a perfect way to feel dangerous without being dangerous at all.
Speaker: Because, you know, sure, it is a gun.
Speaker: And if you get ammo for it, you do have ammo.
Speaker: And like, you know, anyone that's lived in a city and is also on firearms has had the weird feeling where they're like,
Speaker: you know, if you're cleaning a gun and you put it back together and suddenly you're in this large apartment building, you can see out in the street and you have this, you know, this gun with an optic on it's like, whoa, you know, like, you're like, wow, you know, right.
Speaker: And it's like, that's completely fake.
Speaker: You know, that's, that's completely fake manifestation of power.
Speaker: It's,
Speaker: And a lot of right-wing activities is basically like this.
Speaker: It's concerned with things that feel really good, win a lot of internet arguments, and don't really amount to very much.
Speaker: And this isn't an endorsement of going all the way with Fed posting.
Speaker: Don't do that because you'll just lose.
Speaker: It's the opposite, yeah.
Speaker: It's stupid.
Speaker: Yeah, it's stupid.
Speaker: This is going to be interesting to say, you know, let's say an assault weapons ban passes.
Speaker: I mean, I have all the guns I want, but like, you know, I think it would actually be like honestly a healthy thing for the right to just realize like how fake the gun issue is.
Speaker: You know, they are not going to do anything with it that New Zealanders couldn't do.
Speaker: And there are plenty of governments around the world where, you know, frankly, people live healthier lives, less perverted lives, and their governments are obviously more nationalistic.
Speaker: that don't really have as strong of on-paper gun rights as the US.
Speaker: It's a painful thing to let go of.
Speaker: I love guns.
Speaker: I think everyone should buy as many as possible.
Speaker: They're tremendous.
Speaker: And frankly, they are useful for home defense.
Speaker: It's a beautiful dream.
Speaker: It's a beautiful dream.
Speaker: And the aesthetic is so cool.
Speaker: And it's so fun.
Speaker: The 0.1% chance that I get to put on the skull mask and just go to town, sure.
Speaker: I also do push-ups in the plate carrier hoping for that day.
Speaker: You approach this from a different angle, but you seem to be sort of chasing the same dream as we are at Exit, which is recognizing that our friends need a lot more freedom of thought and action.
Speaker: And that fundamentally that's about their paycheck.
Speaker: Cause like, you know, like you're saying, people won't, people have these fantasies of like, we're going to rise up in armed rebellion, but like you won't even back sass the HR lady when she does diversity training.
Speaker: Like, come on, man.
Speaker: Right, right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So why is that so important to you and what's your approach?
Speaker: Yeah, so Nassim Taleb retweeted a tweet of mine recently.
Speaker: I don't want to get him canceled, but he retweeted Indian Rafa.
Speaker: You know, I said, look, you know, the reason the reason a lot of journalists hate Nek Taleb is because he has sovereignty, which means that his comfort really isn't dependent on anyone else's approval.
Speaker: You know, he can, he can just live his life and it doesn't matter what you think of him.
Speaker: He's just materially okay.
Speaker: And so he doesn't need to submit to, uh, to anyone's, you know, HR lady.
Speaker: He can just say what he wants.
Speaker: He can write what he wants.
Speaker: He can do what he wants.
Speaker: Uh, that is sovereignty.
Speaker: No, it's not, it's not total sovereignty, obviously.
Speaker: It's more than most people.
Speaker: It's yeah, it's significantly more than most people.
Speaker: And that matters a lot more than basically anything else.
Speaker: You want to get as sovereign as you possibly can.
Speaker: Sovereignty, resiliency, independence, these are all slightly distinct but related concepts that I put under the heading of exit.
Speaker: I think these are exactly the things that you want to pursue.
Speaker: But yeah, it's not, it's not as simple as just, you know, get as rich as Nick Taleb, right?
Speaker: It's a little bit harder than, uh, than, you know, making amazing trades and, and, you know, running a private wealth fund or whatever.
Speaker: Well, I talked to, um, you know, several of our guys that say pretty much whatever they want under their real name.
Speaker: And there's sort of two dimensions to F you money.
Speaker: One of which is to make
Speaker: as much money as possible, but the other dimension is how simply are you willing to live and sort of how can you survive on less?
Speaker: And so like, you know, there are guys I know who are, well, one of them owns a landscaping business and like, there's no, you can't cancel him from cutting people's lawns.
Speaker: That's just not gonna happen.
Speaker: So it, you can generate that kind of freedom
Speaker: on the cheap if you're willing to learn some skills.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: I mean, yeah, so there's, there are a lot of movements that are, that are focused around this, you know, there's, um, you know, fire financial independence, retire early.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There's the, uh, they're, they're all kind of weirdos, but they're still like, they're still, there's still, there's an earnestness to them.
Speaker: That's like sort of lovable, like the 80,000 hours effective altruism people like,
Speaker: They are weird.
Speaker: And like, you know, a lot of like if you if you look a little bit closer, it's like, oh, wait, they're all polyamorous people.
Speaker: It's very weird.
Speaker: It's very weird.
Speaker: But like, if you're not weird, what do you want with sovereignty?
Speaker: Why don't you just do what you're told?
Speaker: Yeah, right.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Like, you know, the normal mainstream American life is living in the pod, eating the bugs.
Speaker: In this house, we believe in science, but like that is the mainstream.
Speaker: And if you don't want that, right, like you're already a little bit fundamentally compromised.
Speaker: You're you're you're asking for something else.
Speaker: So, you know, yeah, these movements are fringe.
Speaker: But I mean, look, if you're listening to this podcast, even if you're a journalist trying to cancel us, you know, you're you're already a weirdo.
Speaker: And yeah, so on the opsec thing, on the cancellation thing, look, I mean, you know, do you even need to be a poster?
Speaker: Yeah, this is like, I would just ask.
Speaker: Question one, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, question one, do you even need to be a poster?
Speaker: You know, if you have an incurable desire to post and like no matter what you do, you can't lurk, okay, maybe.
Speaker: But like, you should really consider just not posting on the internet.
Speaker: And like the only reason I say that is,
Speaker: You know, think of just all of the guys that have been canceled for like, not even the most crazy shit that they said, right?
Speaker: Like some person from Antifa, some journalist or whatever, just like starts harassing their employer, starts harassing their school.
Speaker: And then suddenly it's just a lot harder for them to live life and do normal stuff.
Speaker: Then like, what is it all for?
Speaker: What did they get out of it?
Speaker: What did anyone get out of it?
Speaker: That's like question number one to ask.
Speaker: Like, do you even want to be a poster?
Speaker: Second way that you might think about this is, you know, think about
Speaker: just a totally unrelated person.
Speaker: So if you go to the white pages, if you go to any of these personal information brokers, type in John Smith or whatever.
Speaker: There are people in America named John Smith.
Speaker: Mr. and Mrs. Smith are at the hospital and they're like, what do we name him?
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: John, let's name our, you know, they're the cousins, the does are like, yeah, it sounds like a great name.
Speaker: You know, these are real people.
Speaker: And, you know, just imagine you get John Smith's phone, his credit card, his ID,
Speaker: all of his passwords, everything about him.
Speaker: And he just says, hey, this is all yours now.
Speaker: Here's my mother's maiden name in the street I grew up on.
Speaker: And then he just vanishes.
Speaker: He just disappears from existence.
Speaker: Now you suddenly have this other personhood that you could just inhabit.
Speaker: And unless you start posting from the same IP address, unless you meet a lot of people as this person that already know that's not what his face looks like, you could just be this guy indefinitely.
Speaker: You want to simulate a situation like that if you're going to be a poster.
Speaker: You basically want to get as close to that situation as possible with your online identity.
Speaker: You know, different device, different internet connection, different numbers, different city that it maybe lives in.
Speaker: Just don't, you know, in the same way that John Smith wouldn't really know anything about you, maybe you shouldn't post anything about yourself on the internet when you're posting ideas.
Speaker: And, you know, if you just do that, you're probably going to be fine.
Speaker: So, like, you're
Speaker: You're probably not even Indian is what you're saying.
Speaker: You know, I'm an Italian man who lives in New Jersey.
Speaker: No, I mean, so, no, yes.
Speaker: You know, to the great chagrin of many, I am indeed quite Indian.
Speaker: I think, you know, thank God.
Speaker: Can you imagine if just like all day, every day on podcasts or clubhouses, just like a really thick Indian accent,
Speaker: That's just like, just like everything is the same, but it's just like a really, really thick Indian.
Speaker: You know, you know, BAPS making a lot of money that way.
Speaker: I think you should consider it.
Speaker: He has a very silly beef with me because he was just wrong about Trump from 2018 to 2020.
Speaker: We still give credit where credit is due.
Speaker: But the fake accent thing is, I don't know.
Speaker: He should just use a different one.
Speaker: He can still do a fake accent.
Speaker: He should just use a different one.
Speaker: Yeah, so that would be my advice.
Speaker: It's just like consider whether you really like wanna be a poster.
Speaker: And like- Yes, somebody did one of those growth hacking tweets where they said like, would you stop tweeting for like $50,000 or $100,000 or something?
Speaker: And this was a couple of months before I got doxxed and I realized the answer was no.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I wouldn't.
Speaker: And that was a pretty, cause like that been sort of comfortably middle class my entire life.
Speaker: And that would be a lot of money.
Speaker: And that sort of realization that like, no, I actually kind of need this in my life.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Was pretty eye-opening.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: And if the answer is yes, then post.
Speaker: Posters post.
Speaker: Bap is a great example.
Speaker: Lindy man, Paul Scalas is a great example.
Speaker: Nick Taleb is especially funny to me because he posts with the vigor.
Speaker: and inflection of like a mid-20s man.
Speaker: Like he's just, he's very, very Trumpian in that regard.
Speaker: Trump would post and scrap like a 20 year old man on the internet, which I enjoyed.
Speaker: Viral, robust.
Speaker: Yeah, it's, you know, virtue counts for something.
Speaker: Like if you really need to post and do this, just know that like the probability that you're going to get docs increases the larger your account gets, increases the more you have something interesting to say.
Speaker: Like the better you are, the more likely it is you're going to get docs.
Speaker: It's, you know, so you just have to reconcile yourself to that.
Speaker: So that kind of takes us towards like the whole exit thing.
Speaker: You know, a lot of the stuff that you can do or should do to mitigate this, I think is basically the same thing that everyone should be doing to kind of become independent of the system, right?
Speaker: You know, to be canceled, right?
Speaker: You know, not just like a TV show being canceled because some actor did something dumb, which is where that comes from.
Speaker: To be canceled, to be thrown out of society is basically for the people who are incumbent and have that power, that social leverage to say, look, you're not going to be able to make a living.
Speaker: You're not going to be able to have a social life.
Speaker: You're not going to be invited and you're going to be reviled within our spaces.
Speaker: In a way, everyone in China is canceled from the US.
Speaker: There is a nation of a billion plus people who make money, go to school, talk on the internet, do all sorts of things.
Speaker: And they have nothing to do with the Anglophone system.
Speaker: They have nothing to do with the world of blue checks.
Speaker: They have nothing to do with the world of BuzzFeed pieces.
Speaker: They are pre-canceled.
Speaker: Their entire existence is independent of the system.
Speaker: So if you pursue becoming really, really resilient, uncancellable, right?
Speaker: You're actually also pursuing creating like all of the infrastructure that is just independent of the system anyway.
Speaker: And so I think, you know, it's just, it's a win-win, whether you fear being canceled, whether you don't fear being canceled.
Speaker: These are things that you should do because it makes you more resilient.
Speaker: It makes you less dependent on the system.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's one of my sort of preoccupations is the idea that
Speaker: you can't just go hide out in the woods by yourself, that you have to build the infrastructure, not only so you can make a living that isn't sort of growing potatoes and eating them, but also so that, because if you're gonna have kids, you can't raise your kids' friends, you can't raise your kids' girlfriends.
Speaker: Like there has to be a social weft for other people to plug into.
Speaker: And so that's a big piece of what I'm trying to do is to make that possible.
Speaker: And it sounds like
Speaker: Sounds like you're on the same page of like... Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: So this is a document that I'm gonna send to you and I'm gonna just make it like a public one.
Speaker: It's under the header of like decentralization does not imply isolation.
Speaker: And like, you gotta give the devil his due.
Speaker: Again, I reiterate, I frankly, I don't understand why Bap is so angry.
Speaker: I only very lightly teased him for being wrong about Trump.
Speaker: But like, you know, a central thing that came out of that book, you know, sort of mood, a theme, a motif is perfectly true, right?
Speaker: If you are a single, physically healthy, strong, unattached man in like full possession of your physical capacities, you have a sound mind, sound body, you know, you're not morbidly obese, you're not addicted to anything, you are fundamentally dangerous to the state.
Speaker: And this is why every state essentially tries to recruit you into the security services, tries to offer you some kind of employment if it's smart, or like basically what it turns into is that you become like a criminal or you become like, you know, part of an opposing state that is contesting its legitimacy, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Think about this set of all people who work as engineers for Google.
Speaker: Amazon thinks about them as people that it either wants to recruit or people that it wants to out-compete, right?
Speaker: Yeah, this is just a pure nerd contest, but this is organisms competing for space.
Speaker: These are two animals occupying the same niche.
Speaker: And so it can be a physical contest, it can be an intellectual contest, right?
Speaker: But this is what the power of states pivot on, basically, right?
Speaker: Strong, capable young men and everyone else in society, whether they're women, whether they're old men, whether they're less physically capable people, less mentally capable people, they all have roles to play, right?
Speaker: But they're really kind of like supporting roles in terms of state power.
Speaker: There are a lot of other social spheres where they are the primarily important people.
Speaker: But in terms of state power and national power, really, you can just look at the number of like young, healthy men aligned to a goal.
Speaker: And like that is that is the more powerful state.
Speaker: This is why China is doing so well.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I want to talk about that.
Speaker: Like, do you think that that there's been a change in conscious strategy from trying to recruit them to trying to sort of neutralize them?
Speaker: Or do you think that this is just sort of a stupid ideology that's just sort of burning itself down?
Speaker: We just we just have bad elites.
Speaker: Our elites are bad at being elites.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You know, if they if they really wanted stability,
Speaker: What they want, you know, they are, they are, I don't want to put all of my cards on the table.
Speaker: Look, they don't like a certain population within the U.S. They are from different populations themselves.
Speaker: And so they think of these young men as problematic.
Speaker: They think of them as basically the vanguards of a system that could overturn them, which they are.
Speaker: And so they do want to replace them.
Speaker: They do want to make them irrelevant.
Speaker: They do want to elevate people over them.
Speaker: And, you know, they're they're basically treating them as the men of another country.
Speaker: That that is their mental disposition.
Speaker: And yeah, so, you know, which may not explain some of the sympathy with Taliban.
Speaker: You know, why?
Speaker: Why was their victory so compelling?
Speaker: You know, why did Clarissa Ward
Speaker: you know, find yourself just attracted and having to go and interview these guys and say, oh, they're chanting death to America, but they seem friendly, you know, like all these anchors when they're showing up, France 24, BBC, NBC Universal, CNN, all of these anchors, they're just they're they don't quite know how to talk about it.
Speaker: They're experiencing massive cognitive dissonance.
Speaker: You know, the videos are hilarious.
Speaker: And they're like, wow, these guys are operating with supreme confidence.
Speaker: They've just never seen anything like this.
Speaker: It's just all of it's a Zoomer movement.
Speaker: It's all of these guys 18 to 24 years old with machine guns and pickup trucks just taking over a city.
Speaker: Who weren't alive when the sort of case of spell I happened.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, it's hard not to admire that, right?
Speaker: You know, this is truly, this is really the basis of state power.
Speaker: And that is what all of these journalists are freaking out about.
Speaker: Like they don't have a way to say that this is wrong or that this is evil.
Speaker: They're like, oh, wait, this is obviously with the Afghan support, but we're on the other side, you know.
Speaker: So that's what that is.
Speaker: So, you know, long story short, you know, if you're listening to this and you're not like horrified by tacit support of the Taliban, you're not, you know, you're not just like freaking out about, you know, questioning the current U.S. system.
Speaker: You know, what you want to do is you want to become
Speaker: You want to employ, you want to coach, you want to help, you want to develop, you know, you want to attract, you want to produce.
Speaker: This is for your female listeners.
Speaker: You want to enable as many of these young men as possible and you want to align them.
Speaker: And if you do that, it's that much more likely that your vision of the world that should be comes into existence.
Speaker: And if you don't do that, it's that much more likely that it won't.
Speaker: So, you know, when you speak of a social weft, you know, the warp and weft of like, you know, what creates a human society is like, how many young men are buying into this?
Speaker: How many young women are buying into this?
Speaker: How many families are coming out of this as a result?
Speaker: How many children are being had?
Speaker: You know, this is a very, it's like a very grug brained, like basic way to look at it.
Speaker: But like, you know, if your ideology and your system results in fewer humans, you know,
Speaker: you know, or, you know, or lower quality, more dependent, sicker, more obese, sadder humans.
Speaker: It's a bad system.
Speaker: And if your system results in more humans, stronger humans, more daring humans, you know, more happy humans, it's a good system.
Speaker: And like, it really is that simple.
Speaker: So, you know, so that's, that's really like, that's really the goal in pursuing this kind of resiliency.
Speaker: And it begins, it begins basically with,
Speaker: with becoming economically independent of the system.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: So you mentioned a certain population that is sort of in the crosshairs.
Speaker: You've always demonstrated a really sort of genuine affection for sort of the Americana or working man, but you're also kind of an outsider to that in terms of your background and class.
Speaker: To what extent, and I mean, you know,
Speaker: you clearly grew up here.
Speaker: To what extent do you identify their interests with your own versus how much of this is coming sort of from an outside perspective?
Speaker: I grew up in not maybe not a rural area.
Speaker: Let's say like a super rural area, not suburban, sort of super rural, super in terms of above, not super in terms of very.
Speaker: Yeah, like, so, you know, I kind of, I kind of grew up in that milieu in Appalachia.
Speaker: And that's where I was raised.
Speaker: That's where, you know, all of my formative experiences were.
Speaker: And, and then I just, you know, I went to the, I went to the, you know, the financial imperium of this Colombian state, New York City for school and for work.
Speaker: And,
Speaker: Yeah, you know, it's, it's weird because, uh, you know, eventually I lost my accent, my diction changed.
Speaker: Uh, I became a much more or a ton to speaker as, as your guests have certainly noticed.
Speaker: You know, I had to, I was mutated a little bit to fit in much more with people in this like group, but you know, a lot of the employment opportunities that you get in a place like that, uh, will also expose you to people who should basically just not be in charge of anything.
Speaker: They are venal.
Speaker: They don't really care about other people.
Speaker: They're kind of cruel and you'll see it in little things in terms of how they treat other people around them.
Speaker: If you get them talking about any kind of politics, if you're a decent person, you're just going to be on the opposite side.
Speaker: It's that really.
Speaker: Maybe this is Schumpeter's new class.
Speaker: Maybe this is the professional managerial class, the people of Sam Francis's Leviathan.
Speaker: know maybe maybe some guy called william luther pierce talked about uh you know middle class or something um these are these are this like sort of professional you know well-to-do dtc consumer consuming people they just suck they're really they really suck they're really up and on assholes and they hate everything that is good and sweet and true and like you know it doesn't really matter what your background is
Speaker: if you're just like a decent person, you're not going to like them.
Speaker: And the reality is that most people don't like them, but are economically dependent on them.
Speaker: And so they just kind of go along with it.
Speaker: Like, you know, it's very easy to shit on San Francisco physically and figuratively.
Speaker: I haven't tried.
Speaker: I haven't tried.
Speaker: Just so everyone knows.
Speaker: It's very easy to shit on New York.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Like these are places full of like contemptible stuff.
Speaker: Thing is, like even most of the people who live there,
Speaker: are also just like decent, but they're just kind of going along with everything because if they don't, they can't afford to live there anymore and they have to figure something out and they don't want to be able to, they don't want to do that.
Speaker: And so they go along with sort of insane politics.
Speaker: So that's kind of the reason I have this disposition is it's like,
Speaker: There's only so many times people can call the people you grew up with evil before you're like, all right, I fucking hate you people.
Speaker: There's a threshold where you snap and you're like, I have to destroy the modern world.
Speaker: But then also, there's that kind of inherent grossness.
Speaker: But then there are a lot of other things too that are sort of nasty.
Speaker: There are a lot of things related basically to just like
Speaker: cleanliness, family formation, interpersonal relationships.
Speaker: There's just a lot of mundane life stuff that are obviously not good that this part of the system is responsible for.
Speaker: that the other system is like clearly better at.
Speaker: And where it's not better at, it's failing because of like things and structures that were taken away from it by this system, right?
Speaker: Or poisons that they introduced most obviously with like opioids.
Speaker: So yeah, I mean, that's basically the long and short of it.
Speaker: So you are sort of coming at it from the outside, but it's sort of a common, I mean, it sounds kind of hippy-dippy, but like sort of a common humanity.
Speaker: Yeah, healthy people despise this and all sane, healthy people would want to get rid of it if they could.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, there were there were there were a czarist officers who left the Russian military and like they went and fought for like, you know, you know, the Zogist movement in Albania.
Speaker: There, you know, there are people who, you know, they left
Speaker: You know, they left service in Rhodesia and then they went and fought against communists in Latin America.
Speaker: You know, it's all kind of the same fight over and over and over again everywhere.
Speaker: You know, how many how many people in America have any sort of ethnic connection to Lee Kuan Yew?
Speaker: Very few.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And then, yeah, if you sort of just watch any of his speeches, read anything that he wrote, look at how he governs Singapore.
Speaker: Very rarely do writers find like a lot of things to complain about, you know?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, yeah, I think this is this is basically a universal tendency.
Speaker: There's an essay that I recommend everyone read.
Speaker: It was published in National Review under the title Penzies, like thoughts.
Speaker: Joseph Sobern objected to that title because he thought it was pretentious because it was French.
Speaker: But if you Google Joseph Sobern, Penzies, there's like one site that still has an archive of it and you read it.
Speaker: He talks about these sort of two tendencies, a kind of a nativism and an alienism, you know, sort of an inclination to the home and to order and an inclination towards like what is
Speaker: you know, alien, foreign and weird.
Speaker: And this is just, I think this is a universal human thing.
Speaker: So, and I wanted to talk about this more because we're both sort of particularly on Twitter.
Speaker: We are on the side of people who, you know, I feel like the most important ones, the most interesting ones, you know, maybe, maybe BAP accepted in your case.
Speaker: all kind of get that we're on the same side and I have, I have a lot of good friends there, but I, I also am aware that like, there's a distance between us in terms of, cause you know, I'm a Latter-day Saint and that's a weird to a lot of them.
Speaker: You're Hindu.
Speaker: What is that experience like for you?
Speaker: After a certain point on the IQ bell curve, people all kind of know the score.
Speaker: So yes, it's like, it's just not a big deal.
Speaker: You know,
Speaker: If someone wants to pour through my 23andMe and be like,
Speaker: hmm, you're not as, you're not as step embla enriched as, as this guy from Tadarstan.
Speaker: So therefore, you're not like, you know, then, you know, that's fine too.
Speaker: Although, you know, strictly speaking, sometimes actually a lot of Brahmins are, even though they have more unge admixture.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, like, you know, whatever, you know, the, the, the chips, the chips fall, where they fall.
Speaker: And, you know, people, people have their backgrounds and,
Speaker: Yeah, you know, it gets into like one struggle territory, but also like, but like actually, you know, like consider Europe, you know, why did why did Europe, you know, join together, you know, to stop the advancing Mongol hordes to stop the Ottomans, you know, to, you know, then again, later, you know, under under, you know, an anti communist banner.
Speaker: Why do they do that?
Speaker: They're very different peoples, because they have something in common.
Speaker: So, yeah, I mean, you know, to the extent that an individual is actually not so ultra super powerful and sovereign on their own and they have to coalesce with others, they should do that.
Speaker: And to the extent that they don't need to do that and they should have their own shit and be independent of them, they should do that.
Speaker: You know, that's really kind of the whole game here with, you know, exit and loyalty and voice and becoming resilient.
Speaker: So yeah, I can be a Hindu chauvinist all day, as everyone should be Hindu.
Speaker: But I understand that some people's ethnic traditions are a little bit too far away from the benevolent warmth of Indra.
Speaker: So I wanted to ask you about that too, because almost all of the Indians that I know personally, they have their Indian friends and they have their miscellaneous friends.
Speaker: And I want to know, A, is that the case for you?
Speaker: And B, like, do you talk politics with those guys?
Speaker: Like, how does your approach to all this sort of play on like home turf?
Speaker: So there's a very funny Onion article, which is, area man doesn't understand why Asian guy has entirely Asian friend group or whatever.
Speaker: If you Google that, you find it.
Speaker: And the closing line is something like, and they all speak English to each other.
Speaker: I don't get it.
Speaker: What's the big one?
Speaker: So basically, what's going on there is it's like, how come this Mormon guy has a group of friends that are just all Mormons or whatever?
Speaker: Sure, sure.
Speaker: This guy that plays basketball has a group of friends that just only play basketball together.
Speaker: Yeah, no, and it's obviously the same for us, but like in my case, I kind of had to find a rarefied cluster of members of the church.
Speaker: Yeah, the unfortunate thing about basically all high IQ immigration to the US is that, you know, if you're smart and you're ambitious,
Speaker: Unless you have like maybe a personality defect, maybe principle, you know, exercises left to the reader.
Speaker: Unless you have a reason, you're probably going to be on the side of the most incumbent, most obviously mainstream, most obviously salutary way to get to the top.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And what that means is, you know, the immigrants assimilate, but they assimilate into the New York Times, you know, they assimilate into Harvard, they assimilate into, you know, all of these all of these structures.
Speaker: And so, yeah, you know, like 90, 90 percent, I think, of, you know, Indian Americans are just just tremendous shit libs, you know, as you might expect of like, you know, white collared professional people.
Speaker: On the other hand, it means that if people aren't, you know, it's very rare, very rare that you find apolitical ones.
Speaker: So it's like if they're not a shitlib.
Speaker: They are consciously rejecting being a shitlib.
Speaker: Yeah, right.
Speaker: It's like, you know, if they don't go with the flow, they've probably spent some time on UNS review or something.
Speaker: You know, it's like there's very little middle ground.
Speaker: So that's a positive too.
Speaker: And yeah, I mean, like, do I, you know, Anon, please don't bring up politics at the dinner table.
Speaker: You know, yeah, just, you know, in my regular life with both my, you know, paleris and people of color friends, I just, you know, I just usually don't bring up politics.
Speaker: And then with subsets of both, it's just like, it's, I mean, you know, it's very cancelable.
Speaker: So yeah, I mean, that's how that goes.
Speaker: OK.
Speaker: I heard on the Kashyyyk podcast that your parents are sort of Trumpian.
Speaker: They're just like dispositionally based.
Speaker: Like a lot of immigrants are just like this.
Speaker: You can see this.
Speaker: Yeah, just a lot of immigrants who came to the United States before basically the 90s, their disposition is just naturally to the right wing because it is.
Speaker: And so like, yeah, you know, they're just, you know, in many ways, they're much more based than even I am.
Speaker: Although apolitical people, you know, in terms of in terms of their natural inclinations.
Speaker: Yeah, they're just they're just very based on a ton of like what it what it lacks in nuance, it makes up in intensity and passion.
Speaker: That's at least the case with my family.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: It's like, you know, imagine going to Cedar Rapids, Iowa and going to like a bar and talking to someone who's been going there for 30 years and used to work in a mill.
Speaker: And you're like, hey, man, do you want to hear about the Americana project?
Speaker: He'd be like, what?
Speaker: He doesn't need to hear about any of this, you know?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: He doesn't need, you know, he's just, he is, he is that guy.
Speaker: So, yeah, that's how they are.
Speaker: I wanted to ask you also about sort of your, your relationship to Hinduism, because you have referred to it often and it's, there's always sort of an, an armor of irony about it.
Speaker: Like not, not that you're, not that you're making a joke of it, but it's, it is, it is always brought forward in the context of kind of a joke.
Speaker: It's always light hearted.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I want to know kind of what that really means to you.
Speaker: It's always light hearted because I mean, look, I don't.
Speaker: So I don't think of I don't think of Hinduism.
Speaker: I don't think of the Vedic tradition.
Speaker: I don't think of our philosophy as something that is easily universifiable.
Speaker: Even though the subject matter of the Vedas, and this comes out, if you read the Gita, what is Arjuna asking Krishna about?
Speaker: He's asking about his place in the world.
Speaker: He's asking about his duty.
Speaker: He's asking about how to reconcile his misgivings with his duty about his personal affections in the world.
Speaker: These are very human, universifiable problems.
Speaker: And, you know, ultimately, we have we have our own thinking about why humans have these inadequacies, why they, you know, why they fear action, why they, you know, delight in comforts and things like that, and why they feel a need to do this, we do have answers that are pretty universifiable.
Speaker: However,
Speaker: those things exist within a three to four to five thousand year old ethnic tradition that is like kind of impenetrable and like sort of very hard to relate to if you're not from it.
Speaker: And so I don't want to go around Twitter telling people to read the Gita or find a guru or start praying or doing any of these things because it's just like the bar is too high.
Speaker: And so, like, so, so aspects of it, though, that, you know, historically are related to the pro-Indo-European peoples and related to the ancestral peoples that, that Indians and Europeans share in common,
Speaker: A lot of those sort of cultural modes, a lot of those edicts sort of carry on.
Speaker: And I think it's worth highlighting them because they are inspiring.
Speaker: They are pretty profound.
Speaker: And so I think a fun way to do that is, it should be a fun way, right?
Speaker: Rather than a very finger-wagging, naggy way, is with a little bit of lightheartedness.
Speaker: And yeah, I mean, it's in this way also,
Speaker: I'll just be honest.
Speaker: I love my Christian friends.
Speaker: I love my Jewish friends.
Speaker: I love my Muslim friends.
Speaker: I love my Buddhist friends.
Speaker: You're all wrong.
Speaker: You're all wrong.
Speaker: We need to clean.
Speaker: You know, I don't want to be in the position where I'm just like,
Speaker: dunking on someone's, you know, deeply held philosophical traditions or theological positions or, you know, family faiths or whatever.
Speaker: So I'm also not gonna, you know, there's a thing that, you know, our beloved ortho bros do where they're just like, they just get in beeps with Catholic Twitter for no reason.
Speaker: It's like,
Speaker: Oh, okay, Zoomer Orthodox.
Speaker: I guess second in line to be the Patriarchate or something like, like, that's also very silly.
Speaker: Like, and then like I saw I saw a thread, it was like, it's like a 200 reply thread or something where people were like, just bitching about like what the actual church was.
Speaker: And yeah, I don't even want to wade into those waters.
Speaker: So yeah, so I don't I don't make a serious proclamation that everyone should be a Hindu.
Speaker: Although I think, you know, that'd be a good idea.
Speaker: Well, how does it, how does it, so in my experience, people are often surprised to hear that I'm a Latter-day Saint, given, uh, given my politics and given, you know, sort of the politics of the members of the church they're aware of, which is like Mitt Romney and maybe like Harry Reid and Evan McMullen, obviously.
Speaker: And the problem with that for me is like, it totally informs my politics.
Speaker: Like I, I, I,
Speaker: I view it as almost demanded by my politics.
Speaker: And I am as surprised as anyone to find that I'm in sort of the same tent as guys like Mitt and Evan.
Speaker: So how does your Hinduism sort of inform your politics or is it a separate entity?
Speaker: Yeah, so I had a thread on this a while back.
Speaker: And so when I was in high school, I started learning Sanskrit.
Speaker: and uh you know this kind of this there's a sort of tension that i had when i was you know very young where i would you know read or be told you know all of these stories of our epics you know all of our heroes you know yudhishthira arjuna bala nala these are all all of these guys are warriors and you know the kind of conduct
Speaker: that you know you're raised with you know when you do there's there's a festival uh you know a sort of ceremony of raksha bandhan where you know every every brother to a sister is told look it is your duty to protect your sister at all costs and you know you get the string tied around your wrist you do a puja that's a that's a prayer you do a prayer for her she does a prayer for you
Speaker: and you are assigned the role explicitly of her protector.
Speaker: And it's a matter of your personal honor to keep her safe.
Speaker: And like, you know, there's all of this stuff that's like, you know, well, why was Lord Rama, you know, obviously the person that should have married Sita?
Speaker: Well, because he could string the bow of Shiva.
Speaker: He could win the archery contests.
Speaker: You know, he was the strongest warrior of them all.
Speaker: And all of these things are there.
Speaker: And it's like, yeah, awesome.
Speaker: And then like you look at modern Indian politics and you look at, you know, the sort of sort of more Western approved version of Hinduism that is taught in schools and that, you know, a lot of Indians try explaining their politics through.
Speaker: And it's just like, yeah.
Speaker: And then Gandhi didn't eat for 90 days.
Speaker: Like he was just this lowly, humble man.
Speaker: And it's just like, what the fuck?
Speaker: What's going on here?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You know, so the reality is that like Natharam Godse was based, like, you know, actually that martial vigor is there.
Speaker: It's just, it's constantly, it's defamed, it's disavowed, it's not taught, it's hidden, because there's a particular class of really Anglicized, Westernized, kind of deracinated Hindus who...
Speaker: I mean, they are the most colonialized people of all.
Speaker: They really just want India to be a secular, liberal Western democracy.
Speaker: And so they're very anti-Hindu.
Speaker: They'll talk about Hindutva and Hindu fascism and all of these things, and they'll defame it.
Speaker: And it's like, these are traditions.
Speaker: This is what we grew up with.
Speaker: And when I learned Sanskrit later,
Speaker: in high school and I started doing, you know, translations of the Vedas, translations of the prayers that I had grown up with, you know, myself rather than, you know, what was written down on a piece of paper, like actually word for word translating.
Speaker: I was just like, oh, wait a minute.
Speaker: Like all these people are lying, right?
Speaker: It was just like,
Speaker: You know, this is not this is not a tradition about, you know, again, I'm veering into the territory where I start butting up against Christianity.
Speaker: So forgive me.
Speaker: This is not a tradition about turning the other cheek.
Speaker: This is not about the meek inheriting the earth.
Speaker: This is not a tradition about, you know, appeasement.
Speaker: This is a tradition about killing your enemies if they disrespect you.
Speaker: This is a tradition of standing up for righteousness at the cost of your own life.
Speaker: This is, I mean, it's a very martial warrior-like tradition.
Speaker: And, you know, it's not even like this sort of stayed, you know, reserved thing.
Speaker: I mean, like there's weed, you know, there's
Speaker: you know, sex books, you know, they're like, I mean, it's just, it's a very, it's a very, you know, it's a tradition of people who would, you know, drink Soma and have a lot of children and, you know, go to war with people.
Speaker: Like that is the tradition.
Speaker: And like, you know, those people eventually, yes, they settled down, you know, on the banks of Mother Ganga and they thought about the world and
Speaker: The relationship of the self and the world was revealed to them.
Speaker: Ahimsa doctrine was developed.
Speaker: Not eating meat was developed.
Speaker: These are sacraments of a particular priestly caste.
Speaker: But the kind of parody view of Hinduism, where it's just this sort of hippy-dippy, hey, man, we're all just, that's a different thing.
Speaker: And that's actually encouraged by a particular strand of Indology.
Speaker: You know, Audrey Trushke is a perfect example.
Speaker: That view of Hinduism is encouraged because it keeps Hindus and it keeps Indians, particularly within India, politically docile and unable to essentially assert their ownership of India and indeed, you know, greater Ardhavartha.
Speaker: All of that land is ours and it will be ours.
Speaker: We're going to take it back.
Speaker: And that requires, you know, that requires a sense of ownership.
Speaker: And it's that basic fundamental, like martial disposition that they really don't want Hindus to have.
Speaker: Well, I mean, you should go bowling with the guys because it sounds very similar to our frustrations with our sort of, deracinated is a good word, even though we're all white, managerial class types.
Speaker: We're very bought into the system.
Speaker: And it is kind of, it's similar to that sort of immigrant assimilationist experience where it's like they're very conscious of their identity as outsiders.
Speaker: And so they're just falling all over themselves to be liked.
Speaker: And it's frankly pretty disgusting.
Speaker: The way that I would push back on the idea of Christianity being pacifistic is like, I fundamentally reject the idea that people figured out how to be Christian in like 1961.
Speaker: Like, you know what I mean?
Speaker: Like that has not been the way that Christians have historically interacted with non-Christians or with each other.
Speaker: And, you know, there's an extent to which they were maybe being bad Christians, some of them, but I don't think all of them.
Speaker: And there is such a thing as, like you said, standing up for what's right.
Speaker: And particularly also in our tradition, we have less justification to be fundamentalist about, that's what I call it, is Sermon on the Mount fundamentalism.
Speaker: They take that one speech, which is an important speech, and they make that the whole thing.
Speaker: and they ignore all the other counterfactual evidence.
Speaker: It's several thousand pages.
Speaker: There's a thing that gets done by basically retarded people whenever gun control comes up, where journalists will do this.
Speaker: Well, you see, even Scalia said that the Second Amendment is not an unlimited right.
Speaker: And it's like, motherfucker, just read the whole thing.
Speaker: That's not what he's saying.
Speaker: Excuse my French.
Speaker: I realize this is a Mormon podcast.
Speaker: Matron, hecker, this is not the whole thing.
Speaker: Maybe I should say that.
Speaker: Like, yeah, no, that's definitely true.
Speaker: That is why my disposition is the way that it is.
Speaker: And, you know, plan C or whatever is I just, you know, I'll just go to India.
Speaker: I'll just pull an Indira Gandhi, you know.
Speaker: I'll whip them into shape.
Speaker: You know, heritage America is pretty large.
Speaker: It's pretty, pretty all encompassing.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: You know, Clarence Thomas doesn't strike me as a as a as a Ghanaian.
Speaker: He doesn't.
Speaker: Kenyan, you know, you know, anyone anyone who's part of this nation, I think, should pay attention to Indian politics, particularly all the Hindu stuff, because it's the same.
Speaker: You get basically the same contours of a fight in a different color palette.
Speaker: A lot of the stuff that is going to be debuted in the US has been like kind of standard fare in India for a while.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, so in India, all temples are actually administered by the state, supposedly secular state, all temples and their finances are administered by the central government.
Speaker: Pretty weird.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And the reason that was done is because, you know, they were like, Hey, you're, you're mismanaging this money.
Speaker: Maybe there's some amount of corruption here.
Speaker: Maybe you're donating to the wrong political candidates.
Speaker: So, you know, the state should actually be in charge.
Speaker: um this isn't an officially secular country right um like and uh that's coming that that shit is coming um you know the left looks at the super packs and they look at the churches and they look at the religious exemptions and to them they see it as a big pot of money that they should be in control of uh and oh yeah and like that that is that is going to happen in the u.s i have no doubt 100 i guess i guess the next step yeah so so you know it's like
Speaker: Again, it's like, you know, if you want to understand the system, you should understand its other manifestations.
Speaker: But, you know, the most important thing, I think, for an individual to do is just get as resilient as possible.
Speaker: Get as cancel-proof as possible so that if you are canceled, you'll be okay.
Speaker: And if you're not canceled, you'll be more and more independent of the system, more and more sovereign. 100%.
Speaker: Well, Mr. Bronson, it's been a pleasure speaking with you today.
Speaker: Let's direct people to your Twitter, which is Indian underscore Bronson, right?
Speaker: That's correct.
Speaker: Although the I is now a lowercase l. We won't talk about how that happened.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And yeah, you can also find me on Urbit if you're an Urbit person.
Speaker: Honestly, if you have a galaxy, if you have a star, if you have a comet, you should probably already know how to find me.
Speaker: But yeah, you can find me on Urbit.
Speaker: It's not hard.
Speaker: And yeah, so I'm going to be publishing a note soon that I'll share with you that's like, you know, if someone has listened to this and been like, wow, all of this talk, what are the things that I do?
Speaker: How do I actually do any of this?
Speaker: This document has it.
Speaker: And it's like, here's the stuff that you should learn how to do.
Speaker: Here are the kinds of jobs that you should try and get.
Speaker: And here's what I humbly think are like the kinds of things that you should start purchasing and get a hold of in terms of land, in terms of like income generating assets, stuff that you should buttress your own life with so that if you never get to go to a store again, if you never get to have a corporate job again or whatever, you'll be okay.
Speaker: You might not be super wealthy, but you'll be okay and your family will be okay.
Speaker: And I think that pursuing that at a very broad scale,
Speaker: is worth quite a lot.
Speaker: Well, I am really excited to see that.
Speaker: And I'm going to start calling you Lindy and Bronson now.
Speaker: That's beautiful.
Speaker: Well, please don't.
Speaker: It'll give it away.
Speaker: I mean, Twitter sensors, they're good.
Speaker: They're not that good, though.
Speaker: We don't want to make it too easy for them.
Speaker: OK, so and then and then Indian Bronson dot substack is their substack.
Speaker: And that's a great source of insight.
Speaker: Really fun to read.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Thanks so much for coming.
Speaker: Hey, man.
Speaker: Thanks for having me.
