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Building Relationships
16 Plays1 year ago
Liam and Noah close out 2023 by diving into the importance of building strong relationships throughout your career (and life!). There are will be chuckles, heart felt moments, and some spicy details about one of LD's deepest relationships.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:04
Speaker
Hello, everybody. Welcome to the commute. I hope you are all enjoying this lovely ride maybe this morning or this evening on the way home to or from the office. My name is Noah Goldberg. My pronouns are he and him. With me is... Hey, folks. I'm Liam Thurston. My pronouns are he and him, and I lead the user experience practice here. Excited to partner with you on this commute today.
00:00:34
Speaker
and share a topic that we're both passionate about. Noah, why don't you get us started?
Significance of Workplace Relationships
00:00:39
Speaker
So we're going to talk about, I think, one of the most important pieces that everyone should take in of being part of Loblaws, and that is the power of relationships. We work in what I like to call the spaghetti salad, aka the matrix.
00:01:00
Speaker
Or and the more people you know to help you navigate that the better Yeah, it's the truth. I mean the the network you Need to build here to be successful But also the network that can teach you the most and grow your career and make this job fun like no better
00:01:24
Speaker
complex, spaghetti network exists, I think, in Canada, that this one. And I've learned a ton by just forming those connections and asking simple questions about what various parts of the business do that help me understand why they exist. Tell me, when you're building relationships, making connections, what are the things you do? Are there actions, behaviors that work better than others?
00:01:49
Speaker
I think the most important thing in building relationships in an enterprise, let me be clear. I'm not here how to tell you to make friends. Loblaws, you do you with that. But inside Loblaws, it really is as simple as like, how do I get this person to like me?
Strategic Relationship Building at Joe Fresh
00:02:10
Speaker
And how do I get them to make it, how do I get them to know for certain that I'm going to need them?
00:02:19
Speaker
At some point, they're going to need me.
00:02:23
Speaker
Um, you know, and look from experience, I think that was my, that was almost my intro to the enterprise was, you know, we work at this amazing place called Loblaw Digital, but we serve as this massive matrix. And for myself at that time, uh, it was Joe Fresh, that was, you know, the matrix. And sure, I was running an e-commerce business, but I knew that.
00:02:53
Speaker
The strategy and plan that we had put in place, there was no chance any of it was being achieved. If I didn't build the proper relationships and good standings, all those folks at Joe Fresh than I did today. And as much as the strategy lean to all the success the businesses had, I actually could debate that it's the relationships that got us there.
00:03:17
Speaker
Yeah. Well, the productive business outcomes and a good relationship is that you have leverage and influence with that person.
Principles of Trust and Kindness
00:03:27
Speaker
And, you know, I hate to boil it down to that, but when you trust somebody, you can ask for things. And of course you can debate and compromise and negotiate those things. But you can't do that without the trust part and the relationship part. I remember reading Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People about 20 years ago.
00:03:49
Speaker
And some of the principles in that book still stand, but I sort of distilled them into my own approach to this. And it's actually the title of my to-do list every week so that it's costly in my face. I try to approach everything with kindness, curiosity, and optimism. And so any engagement I have, I do those things, right? I'm a very happy-go-lucky, smiley guy.
00:04:16
Speaker
The kindness part, I'm very curious. I'm fascinated by our business. I'm always asking, how does that work? What do you do here? Why do you do that? And then the optimism part comes to life and just that anything's possible. And I truly do believe that. Of course, within the complexity of this company, it might take longer than we'd like sometimes, but anything is truly possible, even the length of time it takes.
00:04:40
Speaker
Um, and so I've been very lucky to, you know, meet so many talented people here. And with every relationship I build or start to form, I learn more that informs, you know, what I do in my team. But I also know that now I have some, like, some, some goodwill credits throughout the organization. You know what? Actually, I have a question about something or I need to get done something done fast. I'll sort of phone that friend and, and ask that favor, but only after a formal relationship.
Metaphors and Personal Connections
00:05:05
Speaker
You know, that actually reminds me, you know, my good friend and colleague at Joe, who leads marketing, Mago and Gel, we do this summit every year called the Collaboration Summit, and it is
00:05:22
Speaker
It's essentially everyone from Joe Fresh Marketing and everyone from LD that touches Joe Fresh. And we focus on just what it means to collaborate and build relationships. We've done it for two years in a row. And I remember the first year we did it, Megan had this saying that is just stuck with me of money in the bank.
00:05:44
Speaker
And you know that can mean so many things like if you just like could share money in the bank that's not what she was talking about. She was just talking about making deposits and at some point or another you're going to need some money in your bank that you're gonna have to.
00:06:03
Speaker
withdraw for your friends. They might need some money. And the more money you have in the bank, so the stronger your relationships are, the better off you're going to be. It's always resonated with me. I thought it's funny to the riff on money in the bank, but it really is true. That's right. Our producer, Keona, has suggested that we keep it spicy around here. So I'll tell you about a key relationship that I have to invest in constantly. We have actual literal money in the bank together, my wife.
00:06:33
Speaker
Melissa works here and every time we get here we're in the parking garage and get ready to come up, you know, chatting about our day, I have the unique advantage of having basically a weekly stand up to and from work where we catch up on our various parts of the business and we sort of, you know, do some insider training on what we need for each other.
00:06:51
Speaker
And then we try to figure out, okay, can we sneak a kiss down here or whatever? And I'm like, I am so insanely affectionate. If you know me, I would hug anybody in a heartbeat. Babe, I won't kiss anybody, I promise. But I'm always the one who's pushing the boundaries. I'm like in the elevator maybe. Maybe when we get up to the floor, maybe in the kitchen, a little hug, a little smooch.
00:07:14
Speaker
And, uh, she shuts me down every time, but I'll always try. And that's just my, like, that's my heart. You know, that's always, I'll do anything that makes someone love me. You know, maybe after listening this, like everyone's can now, you know, they're also going to be watching. They're going to be lurking in the parking garage. Like, yo, are they taking out down here?
00:07:39
Speaker
Sorry, babe, I had to do it. I love it. Love it.
Cross-functional Collaboration at Loblaw Digital
00:07:44
Speaker
Liam, when you think about relationships within LT, so you run a really tight practice. It's a, everyone loves everyone feel, which is awesome. A little too much sometimes.
00:08:00
Speaker
within LD outside of your practice, like how's been that journey? And how do you, you know, not necessarily for yourself, but you know, how do you mentor your team to create those relationships outside of your practice? Yeah. So there's a fundamental truth that I always go back to here, which is very reductive. It seems maybe not sacred to this topic, so not sacred to this topic, but
00:08:27
Speaker
We ship code here. We don't ship strategy. We don't ship decks. We don't ship Figma files. We don't ship, you know, ultimately our tech partners are the ones who publish the work that we do and make sure that it stays up and it's functional and they do the hard work of architecting our solutions. And so that reality has been true for me in any job, in any career, because I've worked in the tech sector my whole life.
00:08:56
Speaker
The fundamental truth that our cross-cultural partners and products, tech, marketing, etc, need to be at the table for most consequential decisions, or at least aware of and informed in collaborating on those decisions, has always really resonated with me. And I'll be honest, it took me
00:09:15
Speaker
A minute, like it wasn't the same culture of collaboration that I was used to when I joined five years ago. And so it took me a while to sort of like, how do we break down those functional boundaries and create, you know, cross-functional groups that are building things together in harmony rather than sort of waterfall or assembly line pipeline of like product rights and requirements, design does the designs, marketing fills in the marketing spots and then we hand each attack, can they build the code?
00:09:41
Speaker
You know, like that happens in any organization at scale and that's okay. But I think it goes back to one of the primary rituals that we love as a group in the UX practice, which is, you know, design sprints or design workshops where we always try to have the right cross-functional representation of the table.
00:09:57
Speaker
And I find that those rituals really actually form a sort of community of relationships that didn't exist previously. I just ran a convergent design sprint last week. Noah, you're well aware. Yeah. And you know, we had all partners at the table.
00:10:13
Speaker
both contributing to these ideas, but also getting to know each other and how each other works and learning from each other's domains and, you know, areas of expertise. And it was a beautiful thing. And I know leaving that sprint, like those relationships exist now and they can be nurtured. And so, you know, I think coffee chats and mentorship are fantastic, but I love to get people actually working together in order to build relationships towards a purpose.
00:10:39
Speaker
So let me spin it the other way.
Learning from Relationship Challenges
00:10:42
Speaker
First of all, that's awesome. But what about times where it hasn't worked out, where you've recommended an avenue to pursue to build a relationship that actually did not work out in, whether it's your favor or a colleague's favor? Yeah, it's a good question. You know, for this one, I'll sort of.
00:11:03
Speaker
The one of the bigger challenges we face as a group here at LD and especially within your leadership teams is like partnering with the enterprise on big things. And you know, that's where I've found.
00:11:15
Speaker
the most healthy sort of tension and where I find I have the most growth is like the patience and relationship building and negotiation required to like do something with LTNA or get something really great done with marketing. And those are the unlocks that we all have to be pushing towards and they may feel a bit harder than working with an LD. And there's been a few times where those have gone sideways and I've been like, ah, is the juice worth the squeeze? Like, I don't know if I'm gonna get anywhere with this.
00:11:41
Speaker
And those are points where I have to say, listen, the greater good for this broad organization is the greater good for us here at LDIC. And it's worth persisting. It's worth pursuing. It's worth being more direct, more candid, helping accelerate, offer resources where we can to move faster. And that's how I usually solve for that friction. But that's where I think things have been a little less predictable in terms of team harmony. And I'm always working to improve that.
00:12:09
Speaker
What about you? Any good examples of twists and turns? Yeah, words matter. I remember...
00:12:17
Speaker
You know, uh, building a team and, you know, I was, there was two colleagues on my team that I knew needed to work closely together. And, you know, you can't force relationships, but you need to, you know, as a leader, you need to make it clear like you two are going to be working really closely together. Right. Um, but obviously, you know, not just the leader, but the human in me, I want everyone to live everyone.
00:12:41
Speaker
Um, you know, and I remember saying you two need to be best friends and you know, like I didn't mean it literally, obviously I meant it in a figurative, uh, figurative way, but I think he was, you know,
00:12:59
Speaker
If I could plug the blue culture of peace, you know, the, it kind of lends itself to like the shattering cast, right? The words you say matter. Um, and I think that was just to learn, like, you know, always push building relationships, but be very cognizant, um, as you're leading your team, like how you explain to them how they should.
00:13:20
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great one and I agree wholeheartedly. I think the metaphor, you know, I grew up in an agency where it felt like a family to the point where it was unhealthy. And when I transitioned here, I was like, no, no, no, this is more like a team. This is a sports team.
00:13:35
Speaker
And that's sort of the dynamic that I expect. We don't have to all love each other, but we have to work super well together and balance each other's strengths and weaknesses towards the same goal under the right coach. And I think that's sort of like the healthy dynamic that, uh, although my team does over index, I love, um, I try to try to keep it pro, uh, building a five functioning team rather than, uh, you know, a family for better or worse, but I think it's going okay.
Closing Remarks and Sign-Off
00:14:06
Speaker
So we're going to finish this podcast, but you know, we talked a lot obviously about relationships and some of you might be wondering, well, okay, like I have many relationships, you know, and people like me and like, that's great. And I hope everyone likes everyone. Like I said earlier, why this is a topic and one of the earlier topics of the podcast is, you know, we, we should never hide from her for get the fact that law blood digital is part of a bigger enterprise that is law block.
00:14:36
Speaker
Um, and we do some really cool shit at LD. Um, but we don't ship it. A lot of the things that we want to ship, we won't ship without the support of the enterprise. And that is why talking about relationships is super important. Um, so I hope you all enjoyed this podcast, uh, signing off again, Noah Goldberg pronouns, he and him and my great buddy.
00:15:03
Speaker
Liam. Of course, thank you. Oprah is enjoying their trip in or out of the office. I'll catch you in the elevator. We'll catch you next time.