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Life of a Digital Content Writer at LD
11 Plays1 year ago
When you're working in the creative realm of infinite solutions, how do you choose the words that work best? Kianna sits down with Tammy and Kaylin to learn about their role as Digital Content Writers at LD, the creative process, AI in the writing space... and tease come exciting things to come.
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Transcript
Introduction by Kiana
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, welcome back to the Commute. A bit of a different voice, and that's because I'm taking over for a special episode from Liam and Noah. I'm Kiana, and I'm a digital designer on the Applause brand team. And today on the Commute, we have two very, very special guests. We're going to be talking about digital content writers, who they are, what they do, and what they do at LD.
Meet the Team: Tammy and Kaylin
00:00:24
Speaker
And then in the process, we get to learn a little bit more about two of our amazing digital content writers at LD.
00:00:30
Speaker
And so I'll pass over to Tammy. You want to introduce yourself? Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Kiana. I am Tammy Sutherland. I manage all of the digital content writers and the content designers here at Labla Digital, which means I have writers that work on every single line of business that we support. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. And then a couple of content designers in there as well. And I have been here at Labla Digital for over four years now.
00:00:58
Speaker
So quite a while. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll pass it over. Yes. Hi. My name is Kaylin Bakerfield. I am the senior digital content writer for PC Express, which is our online grocery delivery and pickup app. So pretty fun little bit of technology that I get to write for and I craft
00:01:20
Speaker
primarily digital content for the app. So any digital assets, I do some radio, anything that you'll see on the app that is words is usually me, which is a lot of fun. So I guess we'll get into it. So when we say digital content writer,
00:01:38
Speaker
What does that even mean?
Roles and Responsibilities Explained
00:01:40
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. So it's interesting on my team having both digital content writers and content designers. And so my digital content writers are really working on marketing content. A lot of the things Kaylin mentioned, you know, emails, push notifications, sometimes radio scripts, occasionally even billboards or in-store creative. And really they're writing persuasive messages to influence customer behavior, acquisitions and the like.
00:02:06
Speaker
Whereas on the other side, the content designers are working mostly with product designers and really looking at the hierarchy of information on the page and helping to create seamless experiences with a really strategic goal of what we want a customer to do, maybe sign up for something or move through a flow in a
00:02:25
Speaker
So that's a lot of work. How many people are on this team? Yeah, there are seven people in total on my team. So two content designers and five digital content writers. And as I mentioned, we have two PCX writers. And then we also have an SDM writer. We have a PCO experimentation writer. Our content designers work on DX Studio and on digital pharmacy. And we have a PC Health writer. So we're really covering all the bases there.
00:02:54
Speaker
So walk me through just generally the process of a day-to-day. Who tells you to write these things? And then you take them, who else do you interact with after that?
The Creative Process
00:03:08
Speaker
How do you put it onto the app? Yeah, absolutely. So there's actually quite a bit of process from brainstorm to actually physically seeing content on the app.
00:03:21
Speaker
So we have a growth marketing team that kind of deals with a bunch of different aspects of the growth business. So we create content for acquisition.
00:03:31
Speaker
So trying to get new customers, we try and retain, like retention, so we're trying to continue to have PCX customers. And then we're also kind of writing content for the lifestyle marketing as well. So depending on what kind of asset we're trying to write for, that growth marketer will basically say, hey, we need you to do this. We would like to have, you know, this kind of content aimed at this kind of people, like these kind of, this audience, these people are gonna, you know, trying to utilize it.
00:04:01
Speaker
and have fun, be creative with it. And so that's kind of where the content writers will come in and we'll brainstorm and then we kind of go through rounds of feedback to try and get the perfect amalgamation of content, accessibility, persuasive, trying to persuade. Creativity and fun. Yeah, and there's a lot of things in between there.
00:04:25
Speaker
We'll send it off to production and production will you know tie oh sorry and the designers of course Oh my god the designers the designers will design the beautiful visuals that accompany the content or the copy and then the production will do their magic and put it on the app so
00:04:40
Speaker
I mean, that sounds very, very simple.
Overcoming Challenges
00:04:43
Speaker
There's a lot more to it, but that's basically the TLDR version. Yeah, and don't forget, when we're talking about apps or any of our websites, and certainly with Helios, we're talking about assets that have really defined character counts. And so we have to, we have all the writers. Oh, a character count is how many letters can literally fit, letters and spaces can fit into a digital asset. And so it's a lot of,
00:05:10
Speaker
reimagining how to use language within this really tight restriction and get all those things across, as Cailin said. What is the tightest restriction you've ever had? Well, I mean, the CTAs are about, are there 20? You have 20 characters, and that includes spaces between places as well. Yeah, so we have a pretty, we try to use the same suite of
00:05:37
Speaker
CTA is for the most part, CTA is a call to action by the way, which is a button, like book now, learn more, shop now. So we have a pretty tight suite that we use, but every once in a while you're like, oh, I would really love to do a little bit more there,
Creative Collaboration
00:05:55
Speaker
but. I would say offers are like the big, challenging things, especially because the PC optimum offers are often like get, you know, X,
00:06:04
Speaker
thousand points you know on uh x number of dollar purchase and like just that right there like i just said it that's like 40 characters and usually you have like 45 yeah and they're like they're really great offers and they're really good deals and we want to try and get as much of that like excitement in the copy but we literally have
00:06:25
Speaker
like 40 characters to say all that so it's like you have to try and balance the you know the fun with the hey we actually have this very specific message to get across and also making it like super digestible for people because when they see a lot of numbers yeah
00:06:41
Speaker
or I don't know, maybe it's just me. I see a lot of numbers along with like, because PC optimal points are really interesting because I'm like, obviously they have monetary like value, but then it's interesting to communicate like, you know, equivalent of $10 off and like, I don't know. I feel like it's PCX math. There's girl math, boy math, PCX math. Yeah, it's hard. I just, also I should make it clear to the audience.
00:07:05
Speaker
I work with these lovely people. We're all on the digital experience team. Although we, Tammy, we kind of work together a little bit for EB copy, but when we do creative reviews and creative meetings, I kind of get insight into what the writing looks like and like what problems they're trying to solve. So that's also kind of why I know a little bit, but not a lot because I just feel like let's talk about creative
00:07:32
Speaker
What is creative review for the people? Absolutely, so creative review is this weekly meeting that we have all of the writers and the designers on the digital experience team and it's an opportunity for us to put work up in front of our peers. And so it's either work that we need a little bit of help or feedback with or work that we're proud of that we want to display. It's a really fantastic opportunity since everybody works in their silo of their line of business. It's a fantastic opportunity to see what else is happening.
00:08:01
Speaker
And it's kind of the most warm, fuzzy meeting of the week because everyone is, well first of all we have, the digital experience team is top notch, which I know is a tough competition here at LD because there are a lot of top notch teams. But it's really about celebrating the incredible talent in the room and seeing what people can do for
Special Projects and Guidelines
00:08:22
Speaker
the people. I think you introduced it to me as a safe space and that's exactly what it is. Oh it's such a safe space. Because the people at home, the iconic, amazing,
00:08:31
Speaker
Never been done before. Phenomenal Valentine's Day cards. That happened in Creative Review. I came to Creative Review and I was like, here's the plan. We want to do something fun. We want to do something funny. Copywriters in your spare time.
00:08:46
Speaker
What do you got? And then Simon wrote eight pages worth of content. Simon, who is my PC optimum experimentation writer. Iconic. Yes. He really picked up that mantle and he ran with it. Yes, he did. Yes, he did. So maybe the folks will see some of those eight pages at some point.
00:09:08
Speaker
And you know, actually speaking of Simon, let's not forget the creative review where he brought his challenge for Super Bowl and for the PC Optimum app and having to work with Usher's people and get this Usher wording in and he had really
00:09:24
Speaker
really, like you were saying earlier, really strict guidelines that he had to follow and certain words that had to go in certain order and he was trying to figure it out and we were all helping and then we all definitely played some usher in saying yes. That was wild. I remember he came and I was like, this is so similar to
00:09:43
Speaker
Like obviously I'm in the design world, but it's just so similar to a design challenge where it's like hey You're working within specs you're working with branding usually brain colors fonts whatever But then you guys have the added thing and I guess with designers like you're working within the space that you have you guys have to work within character counts and then I remember when Simon came so for everybody
00:10:04
Speaker
at home, Simon got tasked with writing the copy for Usher's spot on the PC Optimum app and web experience. So if you saw on the app that like dark, it turned out like black, really moody image of Usher.
00:10:23
Speaker
he had to write the copy for that and got tasked with that, but I remember him coming to the meeting being like, okay, we're working with Usher. We're working with PC Optima. We're working with Apple. And they all have different things that they want. And especially with the Super Bowl, there was a lot of like, we can't use Super Bowl. It has to be Apple halftime show or something like that. It was so, like,
00:10:45
Speaker
he like it was like a list of things that he had to write with him and I was like how can you even write anything like I just and then he had like freaking 10 options and I was like
00:10:54
Speaker
How do these people do it? You guys are great. I always think that writing is as a puzzle in putting pieces together. Yeah, definitely. I think some things come naturally, but I don't think it all comes naturally. I think there is really a lot of thought. And especially in our team, the content writers and the copywriters are just so incredibly talented. And they have the skills.
00:11:20
Speaker
to to do that like I think that like Simon like really exhibited like a very very special skill that you know kind of makes you just like a really good content writer so yeah I think like some things can come naturally but for the most part no it's it's like it's a serious challenge that you have to like work on and develop and and it makes you really
00:11:40
Speaker
proud when you get there.
AI and Copywriting
00:11:44
Speaker
And that was the other thing with Simon's copy as well, where he not only wrote within those guidelines, but also tied in some funny like, yeah, or like, deals got us fall in love or like, like Usher type.
00:11:56
Speaker
language, which is wild. And that's also one of the things that our team really has to pay attention to is that we have brand guidelines for all of our lines of business. And that means that if you're writing for SDM Beauty, it's different than if you're writing for PC Health or PC Express. And so those brand guidelines give you the fences of where your creativity can go and where you can push it, you know, PC Express.
00:12:23
Speaker
You can definitely throw some food puns in there and have a little more fun than you can on some of the more serious businesses. So I think that was a good example. What's one of the more serious businesses? Well, definitely PC Health, although it's interesting. You're talking about health, but we're trying to find this balance between Shoppers Drug Mart,
00:12:42
Speaker
already has a lot of this content and so trying to find a more friendly voice right make it a little more accessible we're thinking about you know all of the new Canadians that don't have access to family doctors you know making sure accessibility is huge when we talk about accessibility when it comes to copy it is a lot about making sure that reading level is quite low like a great five or six reading level I heard that like where it's like
00:13:07
Speaker
People excited cousin who's in journalism and they were like you should be writing your articles like at a grade four or five level Yeah, it's fascinating. Okay. We did it. We did a test because we do a lot of user testing Where we'll we'll test different kinds of copy and things and I remember a couple years ago We did a test on some shoppers beauty copy
00:13:27
Speaker
And our Harleen, our fantastic beauty writer, we love her, who has been reimagining the same five categories so incredibly for over two years now. Every time Harleen speaks, I'm like, amazing, amazing, took my breath away. So we were testing some copy and she was using the word tress or tresses for her hair, which, you know, it's a great option. It's got a little poetry. It's, you know, has some feeling in there, but
00:13:54
Speaker
We weren't testing for accessibility, but every tester tripped over that word. And so that was really eye-opening to us. And really, you know, so there is, again, this balance between creativity and a bit of poetry, a bit of joy, and accessibility for sure in
Translation Challenges
00:14:12
Speaker
there. And dealing with like sensitive subjects with like PC Health, like you're potentially talking about more like sensitive products that
00:14:19
Speaker
You know you have to you want to have fun with it But you also have to be respectful of you know the the background like you know the stories behind these products So SDM to selling sexual health products, and there was a lot of you know What kind of headlines could we use what can we say you know where is that line? Between because these are the kind of products that you wouldn't have been able to buy at a drugstore in the past you know But now indigo sells them right yeah
00:14:46
Speaker
Do we have tools to help us with those kind of topics? I think internally, it's...
00:14:57
Speaker
We have like sort of a built-in sensitivity. Vibe check. Yeah, vibe check, absolutely. And that's what, you know, it's the manager on the team that's really, you know, I give my, all of my writers have a ton of autonomy. I mean, I try really hard to hire great people to give them the training they need. And then every copywriter, phenomenal. Everyone on digital experience might be biased, amazing, but like copywriters, you guys are always on it.
00:15:23
Speaker
But the great thing is, you know, like, I am always there. I always tell my team, like, if you are having trouble with something, if you're struggling with something, like, run it by me. Like, I'm that extra set of eyes or creative review. And I think it's great because, like, with creative review, like, again, not a copywriter. There's a reason why all of our Instagram captions are like one sentence.
00:15:43
Speaker
It's because it's so hard to write. We can help you with that. But you know what? Your name's on the list. I'll be hitting you up. But I feel like, yeah, in Creative Review, getting to hear what you guys work on, having that different perspective, because Hannah usually chimes in.
Team Appreciation
00:16:02
Speaker
Hannah's really witty. Perfect personality for PC Express. Like, perfect. Absolutely.
00:16:07
Speaker
But yeah, it's very interesting to hear it from another perspective and then like know the background and know the puzzle pieces that you guys were working with. Because again, as designers, we kind of have to work with the same things. But then, yeah, I just I think it's so interesting. Well, and so this is interesting. This idea that writing is challenging. So one of the big focuses this year, which no one will be surprised to hear,
00:16:28
Speaker
has been AI. I've never heard of that word Timmy. What is that? It really hijacked much of my time in the last like eight months in the sense of you know I really went out I was tasked to sort of go exploring in the world what
00:16:45
Speaker
AI tools are working in Combi and how are they working? So I did a lot of testing of different tools and a lot of free trials and paid trials and meetings and everything.
Crafting Effective Email Subject Lines
00:16:56
Speaker
And we came close to adopting one and then we had a meeting with our amazing engineers on Garfield, a tool in particular. And when we went through our wish list and what we thought we would get from this tool we were going to onboard, he's like,
00:17:12
Speaker
but Garfield can do all that. And so it's been a real learning curve, but I will say as great as Garfield is and as great as AI is,
00:17:23
Speaker
We still need our writers to look at what's coming out of the tool, to judge it, or to feed the tool, the grand voice. To teach it and train it. Absolutely. Because it's just, it's basically, you know, this really, it's a computer, you know, well obviously it's a computer, it's a technology that, it's just a sponge, right? That regurgitates what you put into it.
00:17:44
Speaker
and it can like help you regurgitate maybe a little bit better or like mix it all up and and you know come up with like random like fun things that you'd be like oh I like that's a great idea but it's still somebody had to write that in the first place and somebody had to teach it to kind of generate that so and also AI tends to be really wordy which is not helpful you know what it does yeah and yeah I find it's good like from a design perspective I use it as like a starting point like yeah I'm doing a mood part I'll be like can you have other words that and then
00:18:14
Speaker
kind of put me on a trail exactly absolutely brainstorming and and i mean we've been using like ai as writers especially we've been using ai tools without knowing that they're ai tools for like years right like we have so many like there's grammarly and there's translation
Handling Creative Pressure
00:18:29
Speaker
tools
00:18:30
Speaker
and there's you know voice to text tools and there's just like there's been so much AI this is just a little bit more like in the forefront a little bit more explicit and we just have more control over it too which is pretty cool so I know for me I love using AI like that as like a really like a really good tool that I've already always kind of been using and now it's just bigger.
00:18:51
Speaker
And Caitlin mentioned translation, which is a good segue. Oh my god, the way that I always forget that you guys also have to do French. Yes. Well, so the way the French.
00:19:05
Speaker
process works is that we use a translation portal that all of LCL uses, right? And it's, um, so we, we upload our information to like our copy into the portal. So you write in English, we get it signed off, you know, all that stuff. Oh, so it's approved first and then it gets translated. And there can be wait times depending on how long, you know, luckily French is longer than English. So going back to those character counts, we usually have to go back and forth because we're like,
00:19:34
Speaker
Hey, like this is 10 characters too long. Yeah. Oh, so then so then the writers on the French side have to Yeah, I've changed the word slightly which is exactly why I wanted to say there's been a lot of questions internally like Why aren't we using Garfield for a Garfield can translate? Why aren't we using Garfield? Right?
00:19:54
Speaker
And so we actually had a meeting recently with the manager of our AI portal, and they were really explaining to us that it is not a word-for-word translation that they do, because if you're using a phrase in English like, good to the last drop, for example,
00:20:12
Speaker
If you were to put that into Garfield, Garfield is going to give you the literal translation. It's not going to mean the same thing. It's not going to have the feeling behind it, the meaning that you were trying to convey. And so while we are looking to streamline our AI, and the translation portal people do use their own AI as far as for translation, but we are looking to expedite those processes in the future and find a new
00:20:39
Speaker
way, but we're not quite there yet. So a word to the wise. Anybody out there who is trying to slide some French AI Garfield under the radar, give me a call. Slack me. Shout out to the just French things Slack channel. And also be in the real MVPs. The real MVPs.
00:21:01
Speaker
It's just people who speak French or understand, yeah. And it's just like, does this make sense? Or like little things like, I need this like right now, can you help me? And everybody else. So you guys are just like hitting up that channel constantly? It depends. I mean, now we have Kaylin on the team. I speak French, so. And she does speak French, which is very handy. And we, you know, over the years, being here four years now, I probably wouldn't go to the channel. I would probably go to the few people I know internally.
Successes and Future Plans
00:21:25
Speaker
Right, right. I know who you are. Yeah. But sometimes they just, they come in clutch, so.
00:21:30
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Wait, that's so cool. Cause then like, yeah, that's, I guess that's the other thing too. Making sure it's like, what is it? Like not the right word, but like street smart, like just making sure it like it doesn't sound awkward. Yeah. Yeah. Cause when you don't speak the language, like how would you know? You know, 100%. Okay. Favorite part about the job. Favorite part.
00:21:51
Speaker
Personally, it's my team. I love my team. I love to see them succeed. I love to see them celebrated. I love to drive down the 401 and see their words on a billboard and be like, I don't know who wrote that or walk through Union Station when we launched PC Express Pass. Which we've won an award for. Congratulations. Yeah, there was a full Union Station takeover and so I am a- I took some pictures too.
00:22:19
Speaker
commuter, which is on brand for this podcast. And I, you know, walking through Union Station and getting to see all of those screens with Megan. It was like red and it was great. Yes, Megan Chung's great words on there and the beautiful designs. I was I was really, really proud. So all the time with my team, I'm proud. Megan, we love her.
00:22:42
Speaker
Yeah, probably my team too. So I work with another content writer, Vicky Lee, and she is amazing. I can literally spend an entire podcast just praising her. She's the best.
00:22:58
Speaker
Literally the best also Vicky if you ever are like, oh who's Vicky? It's the person in the office who has absolutely unmatched Jewelry and style. Yeah, if you see something you're like, oh my god, what a fit. It's probably yeah She always was really bright red things
00:23:14
Speaker
and she wears bows in her hair and her bangs are perfect yeah absolutely love her and definitely just like working with her is so much fun so like not to give too much away because I'm sure everybody will see it but we wrote a radio script for PC Express and it's like kind of
00:23:36
Speaker
meme culture E and we also recorded a TikTok for it. So we are going to showcase that probably at a creative review one day and it's gonna be great and it was like you know like we it was such a team effort and I had so much fun doing it. It's like I was even walking and it's like I can't believe we get to come to work every morning and get to like
00:24:02
Speaker
Like, I didn't think I was gonna be doing that, you know, on the way today. But then I did it, so it was- The TikTok is intriguing me. It's fun. Oh, I'm sure everybody. I'm sure, well, it was just for fun. I don't think it's going anywhere, like, officially, but we will share it with everyone. Interesting.
00:24:17
Speaker
And the other thing I wanted to say that I love about the job is to see the team members succeed and move on. We were talking about Megan, who was the PCX writer and is now the content designer on Digital Pharmacy. And also, I have to say, Ivana, who I hired when I was maybe a month in.
00:24:35
Speaker
Yes, I managed to interview her in person before COVID hit and then she started remote and she's been with me almost the entire time and to see her go she was the marketplace writer she moved on to PCX and then she now she's been the DX studio content designer for a couple of years now and she just heard the list of things that she can do is just gets longer and longer and so I
00:24:59
Speaker
Being able to find opportunities for my team to try new things and to succeed is really, really satisfying. It's such a collaborative environment. I mean, we were talking about Simon and Megan and Harleen and they all like, you know, we don't write the same things, right? So we all have our individual line of business and different tones of voice and just different guidelines, just different everything.
00:25:25
Speaker
whenever we constantly go up to each other and it's like like hey do you have like ideas about this or like have you written this before like can I like you know bounce some ideas off of you all the time so yeah it's it's it it's a really nice collaborative.
00:25:43
Speaker
Oh yeah, a lot of emails. So I was just thinking about... Primarily emails. Yeah, a lot of emails. Because then the other character counts for the subject line. And then, you know, a lot of testing and A-B testing, which means... You're testing queen. Yeah. You know, an A-B test, if people don't know, is that you write two different subject lines for an email and you send 50% out to, like, one out to 50% of the audience and the other 50% of the audience get the other one.
00:26:11
Speaker
And then what are the click-through rates? Is there a considerable change between the two? And that's a great way to... Do people like emojis? Exactly. People like pro emojis. Yeah, but I think that there is a tipping point. Interesting. Well, when you have too many, I feel like it's like spammy. It's a little suspicious. But I remember we did this interesting test for Black Friday a few years ago.
00:26:34
Speaker
a lot of the retailers change their handle to be like Black Friday in the handle. So they don't have to use those characters for the subject line where they can double down on the message, which was really interesting. Interesting. Yeah. Is that something that we would do?
00:26:52
Speaker
I have recommended it. I'm not sure if we did for SDM last year or not. So, you know, those are the things you, if you're going out with a cyber weekend message, when everyone else is doing a Black Friday message, you could get lost in that email box and not get the prominence that you need. So the words are important.
00:27:10
Speaker
Words are so important. It's like making me anxious that you guys do so much. I'm like, how do you live with the pressure? The pressure of the... The thrive on pressure. Yeah, the thrive on pressure. I don't know. I'm probably stressed because I'm like, I'm not a writer. So I'm like, oh my God.
00:27:24
Speaker
I feel like that's how I feel about designers. Like people, I am not a designer. So it's like they're like talking about the specs, like the numbers, and I'm just like, I don't know what that means. How many characters is that? I think that, you know, I think for any of us in a creative role, the key thing and the thing that you have to take going in is that in the end, it is all subjective. There are many ways to write a headline for something.
00:27:49
Speaker
You really have to approach it with that subjective lens in mind and really take your ego out of it and be open to feedback from your peers, from your stakeholders and try to find what the goal of the content piece is and make sure you have that in the
00:28:06
Speaker
in the middle of your brain and then extrapolate from there. And simplicity is deceptive. So you gotta understand that just because something is simple doesn't mean it's gonna be easy. And as long as you kind of go in there understanding that this is a problem that needs a solution, I think you're in the right direction for copy. And I wanted to say too, we do have this great team. We can't support everyone
00:28:35
Speaker
at LD. And so there are definitely product designers in particular who are sort of flying blind or writing their own copy and hoping for the best and doing their best, truly. But I'm not going to give anything away here because we're going to launch it in a couple of weeks, but there is a solution coming.
Conclusion and Impact
00:28:57
Speaker
Me and the content designers do have a plan in place to provide a wider support.
00:29:03
Speaker
to the product designers within L.D. I love this little teaser, so when can we just wrap it up? Well, we're hosting a UX all hands at the beginning of March, and so we love, oh my god.
00:29:15
Speaker
We'll fill you in. Well, listen, record it. I'll watch it. I'll watch it immediately. Ah, I'm so excited for that. Damn. Yeah. Great conversation, you guys. Is there anything else that you need to get off your chest now that you have it? About the importance. Thanks for having us. But honestly, like, I just, I really, I think, like, as I said before, like the goal of this is I really wanted to emphasize the importance of, like words, the words that you write are seen externally by a lot of Canadians, like a lot of them. Millions, in fact.
00:29:45
Speaker
And so, yeah, everyone, these are the amazing copywriters that are working at LD. And yeah, I guess if anyone wanted to approach you for a little coffee chat, would you be open? 100%. And anyone can drop me a Slack too if they're like, I just need a quick edit help on a few sentences. I'm always down to do that. You've got the professionals at your expense here. Anyway, thank you for coming on the pod. Thanks for having us.
00:30:15
Speaker
I'm so happy that you guys were my first host experience. It was such a good experience. Anyway, hope everyone has a great commute and we'll talk to you next time. Ciao. Bye.