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LoyalTEA
32 Plays4 months ago
For our first episode of Season 2, we're spilling alllllllllll the Loyalty tea with the one and only Christine Yuen: partnerships, fraud (??), the mind of Galen Weston, and everything in between. We'll break down loyalty's growth in the past year and chat about the key elements that are driving change in our Loyalty org. And of course, we had to talk about GenZ slang (which we're both experts at, no cap).
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, everybody. We back. back The Commute. ah It has been a while. I am your host, Noah Goldberg. My pronouns are he and him.
00:00:13
Speaker
We have a lovely guest with us today, one that I'm really excited about. um So when I first joined Loyalty, um you know, one of the reasons was I got to, i was I was going to get to work with the lovely person sitting across from Christine Ewan.
00:00:32
Speaker
Say hello. Hello. Don't make me blush. Hello. um Christine and I have, ah you know, we've obviously been working together since she's been back from mat leave. ah We've had few interactions along the way leading up to our time on loyalty together.
00:00:48
Speaker
ah So I thought it'd be great for her to join us. I'm excited to hear sort of her journey. um But I will leave with her. So say hello
Christine's Admiration and Teamwork Highlights
00:00:57
Speaker
again. Yeah, Okay.
00:00:59
Speaker
So you want to hear about my journey? I'd love to hear about you. You know what? i Before we dive into it, I also want to say that before I joined or before you joined Loyalty, before I came back, I had heard amazing things about you, Noah. Everything you'd done for Joe Fresh, you reinvented buy online, pick up in store, which I, by the way, use all the time still.
00:01:19
Speaker
So anyway, really? Ship from store. Oh, ship from store. But yes, same thing. Same thing. Okay. Yeah. um I connect because it's near India. Yeah, and it's clearly different nuance. Yes.
00:01:30
Speaker
um And I want you to bring that innovation to loyalty. And it's been it's been so great so far working with you. um I've been back from that leave for three months and it feels like kind of an eternity because so much has happened. Hey, do you remember, I remember this, ah one of our first interactions together okay before when I was on Joe.
00:01:50
Speaker
Yeah. Do you remember what it was? I don't know. i have something in my head. it may be the same one or maybe not. What is it? um It was in the Joe office. Yeah. We're presenting about loyalty and. Oh, no, I'm thinking of something else.
00:02:05
Speaker
Do you remember when the there was like millions of dollars of fraud? ah From Joe Fresh, PFO. And I remember there was so much back and forth on who's going to pay for it.
00:02:18
Speaker
And I remember you and I had a meeting where was it it wast it it was like a great it was a friendly but intense negotiation yeah on How we split it. And I think i if I remember correctly, like they always say the best negotiations are in like sports. They say the best trades are where both teams feel that they're giving away something.
00:02:39
Speaker
And I felt like that was it. Like yeah both walked in like, okay. I didn't love that outcome. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. yeah Yeah, yeah. You don't want one loser and one winner. That's right. yeah
Role and Responsibilities in Loyalty Program
00:02:49
Speaker
That's right. Anyways, that's sort of sidebar. Yeah, no, all good.
00:02:52
Speaker
So um maybe I'll start by introducing myself and my role. um So I'm a VP on the loyalty team. um And my team specifically are is responsible for performance management overall for the program. So as you can imagine, PCO is a really extensive program. We not only have teams um within LDML, but we also work really closely with the divisions,
00:03:16
Speaker
ah with LTNA, marketing, all these functions across the enterprise. And my team's responsible for measuring the effectiveness of loyalty and making sure everyone is collaborating and working together to hit our overall program OKRs.
00:03:30
Speaker
um And so that's one key part of it. And on top of that, ah my team leads strategies. So everything from long-term strategy, what's the future vision for the program, where are we heading?
00:03:42
Speaker
in five years, three years, next year, um and everything in between. and then um lastly, very near and dear to my heart, because this is actually where I started at Loblaw, is partnerships.
00:03:54
Speaker
um And so today, you guys might be really familiar with our ESSO
Loblaw's Ecosystem and Strategic Challenges
00:03:59
Speaker
partnership. We've had that um for quite some time and actually can talk a bit more about that because that was essentially what I was hired to do within the first few days. I had my first ESSO meeting um on the job.
00:04:11
Speaker
And um that's the one that you guys might be most familiar with. We also have a partnership with Apple. um But beyond that, actually, there's a pipeline. And that part is really exciting, is what can we bring to the customer next?
00:04:26
Speaker
um And so, yeah, my team is responsible for that as well. Yeah, i um i'm I'm a big fan of partnerships for loyalty. um I think you've heard me say it before. I actually believe partnerships is a It's not just a backbone, but um it's integral to the growth of a program, yeah any loyalty program. Yeah. Well, like the way i like to think about it is Loblaw itself is an ecosystem with actually a lot of partners. We are all owned by the same company. We all operate in a really integrated way.
00:05:00
Speaker
But if you think about it, we are an ecosystem that very few other coalition loyalty programs can even have. So, like, you know, we have a hard discount banner, no frills, maxi. We go all the way to, you know, higher end conventional retail. We have um e-com, Joe, SDM. The entire beauty business is a great complement to what you'd think of as everyday grocery.
00:05:25
Speaker
And then on top of that, we brought in gas. And so this really already spans the spectrum products. companies and um brands that you would want to experience dayto day to day anyways.
00:05:37
Speaker
And so we start with such a great base that actually makes the job a little harder is where do you go next? What's the next logical compliment um that would add value to the customer where they want to earn PC optimum points, where they'll feel rewarded if they get to redeem.
00:05:52
Speaker
um And so we're working through that. But there's some exciting things in the pipe. Yeah, well, I mean, I think it was two weeks ago we were with Galen. Oh. And he, you know, i it was a great it was ah great session with him.
00:06:07
Speaker
Yeah. You know, always to hear from him, like, it's always inspiring. Yeah. You know, but at the end when he was like, you know, he almost did like a soapbox of like, you know, this is what partnerships should look like. And I like yeah i like I just i
Balancing Retail Excellence with Innovation
00:06:23
Speaker
remember me, you, Jodan, Lauren were just there. I was viciously writing notes. Like I look back at my notes and it looks just like murder notes. like i yeah Well, writing. But like this is a bit of the inside scoop of how Galen works is we sent the pre-read a day before, as you do.
00:06:39
Speaker
And he reads it top to bottom and he thinks about it. And in his office, he's got a giant whiteboard and he's jotting down notes about what he wants to share back with us and the feedback he wants to give.
00:06:50
Speaker
And in that meeting, if you remember, he actually stood up and walked out of the room yeah to go to his whiteboard and bring back, you know, a photo of his notes so that he could give us, you know, the perspective that he had been thinking about.
00:07:03
Speaker
And you're right. It's so helpful to have that broader vision. I mean, Like he has visibility to retail overall in Canada beyond just our business. You know, we spend so much time heads down, focused on our day to day and our job, hitting our KRs for that week, that period, that quarter.
00:07:23
Speaker
And he brings this broader perspective, thinking about all the assets at LaBla. It's actually really incredible to have that type of Yeah, I think, you know, when a when I, like, to be with him, like, to present to him and then, you know, it always turns into, especially with loyalty I have found, it always turns into just a great discussion. Yeah. um I always remind myself that, you know, when he's in a room,
00:07:49
Speaker
And he's got to be thinking, you know, I'm the one that's going to be here in 20 years. Right. Right. Most of these people, if not all of them, will not be. Yeah. um And he's got to think that way. And like if you put yourself in those shoes and that mindset, you understand how he's approaching it and how you should yeah solution his approach. Well, like one of the things he tells me um or he tells a lot of people, I presume, but that I hear a lot with respect to loyalty is um you have to almost fight against. You have to put a lot of effort against the core everyday business, like the you know retail excellence stuff, because that has so much gravity.
00:08:29
Speaker
It'll just drag you in and you'll shape your strategy, your actions, your you you know anything we build in the app, but everything we do from a promo perspective. It's just going to serve retail sales and margin that week.
00:08:42
Speaker
Unless you really, really four have some kind of forcing mechanism that directs energy away from that to build the asset for the long term.
Changes in Loyalty Team Structure and Leadership
00:08:51
Speaker
like I think that's a great perspective. and you you need to The way he talks about it is spend 90% of your time thinking about the future and building this asset because naturally it'll the the draw will pull you back where you're actually spending of your time. Yeah, 90-10 concept...
00:09:08
Speaker
concept was that was one of the like highlights that I brought back to my team. ah Right. Like, you know, when he was like 90% of our business is annuity. Right. But, you know, we focus on the 10%, which is, you know, promotions, ah points.
00:09:26
Speaker
Right. Because that is the tangible thing that we could hold up every single week to drive sales and margin. Right. yeah But the reality is that what drives our business is the 90%. um And to hear him say, like, focus on the 90%, push back on the 10% was so invigorating.
00:09:42
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. as this say it yeah It's almost like like a it's it's a great it's ah it's a session in more not just like a business update, but like, you know, to work on loyalty, you do get sucked into that like incredible force that is the like week to week trading um because like loyalty touches everyone and everyone uses it for, you know, a different purpose. Yeah. And it's it's not just retail, by the way, like credit cards need to hit their acquisition targets for the week.
00:10:12
Speaker
um well Every part of our business needs to hit their objectives. And PCO is so fundamental to enabling that. He's like the cleanse, like a quarterly cleanse, right? Like you feel like, okay, going to yeah We could do this. We don't have to we don't have to give in to all those things. um yeah Yeah, those sessions are great.
00:10:31
Speaker
um So, not switching gears, but sort of. um So, you're away on mat leave. Yeah. Congratulations. Thanks. um
00:10:42
Speaker
I feel like loyalty as a whole yeah has changed drastically in the year we've gone. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Maybe, yeah.
00:10:53
Speaker
So highlight some of the things that are different. changes that I've noticed. And then, yeah, like, you know, what you've noticed that have changed for the positive and things that, you know, we're going to work on.
00:11:05
Speaker
Yeah. um So, I mean, first of all, like, let's acknowledge that there was a lot of change in the year was called. Yeah. the The fun fact I say, which is like so rare, is I did take the time to to have my mat leave. This is my second kid.
00:11:23
Speaker
um Her name's Mia. She's now almost 16 months. um And, you know, i'm I'm very happy. I have two kids. We're good. And so I wanted to make the most out of this second mat leave. And I really extended it. So I didn't. The fun fact is I didn't work a single day in 2024. ended in 2023, came back in 2025. And 2024 like crazy.
00:11:44
Speaker
um and twenty twenty four was like monumental for change. I think there was a lot of, um you know, people, leadership changes, direction changes, um resetting to some core core principles that I think have actually served us really well.
00:12:01
Speaker
um And so one of those, for example, for loyalty, when I came back,
Leadership and User Engagement Metrics
00:12:06
Speaker
um it was a far more, I would call it empowered leadership group that is now in place.
00:12:13
Speaker
So it's the loyalty SLT, JODAT is the SVP for loyalty, and um everyone has a very clear, distinct mandate. Like I remember before it was um a lot more drawing on goodwill and you'll help me and I'll help you. And our roles were a bit more blended.
00:12:31
Speaker
And actually, it made it harder to be really, really effective. Now the accountability is clear. Everyone has discrete objectives. I feel like that's allowing us to just move so much faster.
00:12:45
Speaker
um i do think, though, when change happens, you kind of lose the momentum that you've had on certain strategies and then you reset a bit.
00:12:57
Speaker
And then you maybe, you know, now, a year and a half later, you realize we did lose something and you bring it back. um And so in that instance, and I i can give you an example, um I think the reset for loyalty strategically, that was incredibly valuable. I don't know if everyone here knows this, um but loyalty is now part of pursuit match pursuit measures and part of um the way a lot of our um retail stores are incentivized or compensated.
00:13:28
Speaker
um And so um that means that everyone now is more aligned to the goal of growing and entrenching loyalty into the customer base and into our the way we work in retail. We fully engage users, baby. It's the trigger word to rule them all.
00:13:47
Speaker
Yes, W-E-U. If you don't know it, remember. ah But it's it's so critical to have that buy-in from our 200,000 colleagues at stores. And that was such a major shift from pre, matt you know, if I'm using my timeline, but pre-2024 to post-2024.
00:14:06
Speaker
um there's so much more clear alignment. So speaking to the value of OKRs. um And so, yeah, I think that's that's one of the big changes is not only the alignment of goals, but then everything that comes with it. The rallying of the operations teams, the in-store momentum, execution is a lot better.
00:14:28
Speaker
Hopefully you guys noticed this, but ah maybe you're getting prompted to scan your PC Optimum app more often. um And so it all kind of comes and it builds. And we we have now, you know in at the end of Q1 of this year, seeing the benefits of all of that alignment.
00:14:44
Speaker
um So that's super cool. Yeah, it's been fun. it's been fun yeah um I remember at the beginning of the year when it was like like that the growth wasn't there in weekly engaged users and it was...
00:14:57
Speaker
know, it wasn't like a we weren't down about it, but we were I think nerves were a little high. But um I think to your point, you know, having like a proper leadership team actually helped.
00:15:13
Speaker
Yeah. um You know, if I think back like the my early days on loyalty, there wasn't really a there wasn't a leadership team. There was a group of people that got together that happened to work on loyalty.
00:15:24
Speaker
um You know, but. I think with this leadership team, as the metrics went on week by week, ah you know, it was just small tidbits of discussion that I think myself, ah yours, yourself, Rohit, and then, you know, some other folks leadership team would take away and put into action. And I think, you know, you know, it was like a further together, further together moment where,
00:15:54
Speaker
um yeah all those things contribute. Now we're in a really good spot. Yeah. Yeah. It takes more discipline. It's more, it's more rigorous. You have to be um like, it gives everyone more accountability. So you actually have to step into that accountability. It wasn't, yeah. um But it's, I think it's, we're on it. We're in ah in a great spot.
00:16:16
Speaker
So what's like the yes, a lot's changed. um You know, we've we've gone through op model. You know, some groups have moved, moved to different leaders, um you know, but and I find, you know, as my team has grown, you know,
00:16:36
Speaker
and taken shape. Yeah. um The people, like, you know, different different types of people have have joined loyalty. And i've like I've definitely learned, you know, coming from Joe Fresh, where everything was, you know, we either talked assortment, like from a clothing perspective, um you know,
00:16:57
Speaker
fulfillment or like, or sales now, like it's much cooler. We talk about, you know, the value of a partnership. We talk about like, you know, how someone in like engages, you know, if a feature built, like how is it being used?
00:17:14
Speaker
um You know, is it driving trips versus is it driving ah basket size? And like, ah I think the the mindset of the people that work on loyalty is very different than the rest of the enterprise.
00:17:31
Speaker
um What like what's your take on that? Because I think that's the night it goes to the 9010 that. Yeah. Galen talked about.
Global Recognition and Customer-Centric Approach
00:17:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, we all, ah everyone in the enterprise is wearing a customer hat a lot.
00:17:44
Speaker
But I think loyalty is wearing the customer hat maybe the most or it's it's the job. Really differently. Yeah. If wear it backwards and they wear forwards,
00:17:55
Speaker
No. Our brim's straight. Theirs is curved. Yeah. yeah I think it's like every aspect of like it's it's loyalty is is the customer. It's like how is the customer interacting with us as an enterprise?
00:18:10
Speaker
And it's often through, you know, every every interaction they have. But loyalty is the is the one sort of what they call it, the red thread that connects it all. Yeah.
00:18:21
Speaker
um And so through loyalty, we know about the customer, we understand them, we can surface things to them, we can communicate to them. um And so it's and and by the way, i I actually think this is really important nuance about loyalty is I think Loblaw does loyalty differently than a lot of places do loyalty.
00:18:41
Speaker
And the reason in my view is that it's so digital and yeah Like other loyalty programs still, you know, there's still, you scan your card, you get base earn, you know, there's the more sort of traditional mechanics. um Here, we focus so much on digital engagement, weekly engaged users, and that's been a huge differentiator. it's It's one place that customers are now thinking and knowing to go to see everything, all the value that they can get in the enterprise. I mean, you you you've built this, your team builds this, and they...
00:19:18
Speaker
edit it. It's incredible um the potential that could be there. It's the one door that people go through to you know really experience everything that Lobla has to offer. Listen, I say it a lot. Um, and I don't say it just to like, you know, pound, pound the chest and, uh, rave about it, but like we do operate the biggest and best loyalty program in the country. Um, and oh yeah I think I remember when Pear first started, yeah um, he talked about loyalty and he went even further to say, it's not just the biggest investment country, but in the world.
00:19:54
Speaker
Yeah. He thinks it's one of the top programs in the world. And yeah You know, at the time i was just getting into loyalty and I never really looked at it from a global perspective. But as I've gotten know loyalty and, you know, research other programs across the world.
00:20:10
Speaker
Yeah. um He's not wrong. like they like we de It's recognized. i like Actually, I don't know that we can empirically prove it, but you know leaders of loyalty programs in many places in the world have often reached out and you know to learn more from our program because it is so established. and i like i want to The program is great. It is on the backs of our core business, though.
00:20:39
Speaker
The reason it's so great is that Loblaws has this presence in grocery, drug, everything that we've you know talked about with such high prominence and customer but penetration. And, you know, that that's part of it, too. So it goes both ways.
00:20:54
Speaker
um But we've also built a program that has meaning to the customer. um And we're still on that journey. There's so much more we can do Talk about um emotional engagement.
00:21:07
Speaker
So in a way, most of what PCO is today is value. Like you look for coupons, you look for discounts and points, offers. and And yes, we're starting to do more personal personalized content around lifestyle and products.
00:21:23
Speaker
um But we're we're just starting. And I think there's so much more we can um do. I totally agree. I think we are
Enhancing Digital Engagement and App Features
00:21:30
Speaker
just scratching the surface on personalization and, can like, not just personalization, but, like, like actual, like, a contextual experience to a member.
00:21:43
Speaker
i don't think we're there yet, but, like, you know... Okay, let's do this. what's so What is one thing you're most excited about that PC often can do? Like, not so far in the future, yeah, let's do like, you know, next two years.
00:21:59
Speaker
Next two years? Um... Okay, so these are definitely going to be biased. um No, that's the point. yeah You bring your first perspective. so look, I'm very bullish on reshaping the digital flyer.
00:22:14
Speaker
um I do think, look, that the that page... um yeah on in our app that is the second highest trafficked digital page uh in our enterprise yeah um so i think roughly three quarters of a million people visit that page every single week um and honestly it's really a it's it's a pdf that is well organized and clickable um I really want to change the way people experience that.
00:22:47
Speaker
And I think yeah as that takes flight, um that's got so much promise to the rest of the experience of our like of our app and layout and um and and the UX of it.
00:23:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think the flyer, not to understate it, is that a lot of people still shop through a flyer. They plan by looking at a flyer, figuring out what store they want to go to, actually, based on what the the best offers are on the front page.
00:23:18
Speaker
um And so if we could create a better experience for that in a more personalized way, that's the vision. So that's where you're going. I would think the ah and the other one, this isn't just ah for loyalty. I would say there's also a shameless plug for Megan on my team. But um on top of ah digital loyalty, i also oversee the digital messaging team. So they power all of digital messaging for the enterprise. And we have, you know, we've put this, it's a vision concept, but like,
00:23:54
Speaker
You know, we're starting to see the fruits of it ah where, you know, it's it's a saying called service to practice. For so long, digital messaging has just been team that codes, builds an audience, and clicks send um And there is so much to do on when it comes to messaging of...
00:24:12
Speaker
you know, all the different triggers and journeys that we should be doing across all the different banners and lines of businesses. um I'm really excited for what Megan and her team are going to do there.
00:24:25
Speaker
So I think those are the two. And and umm like PCO the biggest client in terms of subscribers and what we do. So i think that's it by proxy. It's the same thing. Yeah. Awesome. I mean, there's a lot law more we can do.
00:24:38
Speaker
Yeah. I won't give you two. I'll give you one. What's one thing? You broke the rule. You're going make a stick to It's all good. ah What is one thing? I mean, for me, um I'm clearly an avid PC Optimum app user. I do shop my offers because obviously I i work on the program. Yeah.
00:24:59
Speaker
But I know not everyone does. And I've heard a lot about customers who say, i get it. I've downloaded the app, but there's no there's no reason I don't shop coupons. I kind of just buy what I buy. um and And what i'd I would love to do is make the PC Optimum app more relevant to more people.
00:25:16
Speaker
actually have reasons for them to come and use it and I know we're um on a journey to potentially creating more you know shoppability in the app more utility features that will help people on their shopping journey as opposed to just being about um offers and i think that one we're just scratching the surface surface of what we can do there and I love that.
00:25:42
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. um We're a world class couponing app. Yeah. That likes to say. um And there's nothing wrong with that. We just but like let's own it and be even better.
00:25:54
Speaker
Yeah. um Okay, let's shift gears. So um in the recent weeks, my team has taken a strong liking and I have myself to what we call ah Gen Z speak.
00:26:09
Speaker
Okay. So I'm going to give you a quiz. All right. Let's see. I'm going to see how well versed you are. Okay. So ah you are basically going to age me in front of our entire audience.
00:26:20
Speaker
For what it's worth, I think we're around the same age.
Humorous Gen Z Slang Quiz and Reflections
00:26:24
Speaker
And when I was introduced to some these words, I was like, oh, my God, my nine-year-old son is using these things. Yeah, okay. Okay, so are you ready?
00:26:33
Speaker
No, but please, please go ahead. All right. Cap. Okay. It is not a hat. It is definitely not hat.
00:26:44
Speaker
Any idea? is not capital. is not capital.
00:26:50
Speaker
ah It means lying. and on it means not true. Lying? Yes. And you would use it in a sentence like you could you do it the opposite, right? Say, You know what I feel like? I'm going for dinner tonight. No cap.
00:27:05
Speaker
Oh, right.
00:27:08
Speaker
Okay. yeah Are we sure that making fun of me as that's not how she would use it. But that's how that sort of means. OK, there's this there's this trend on i I see it through Instagram because I'm old, um but I'm pretty sure it's on TikTok, too, where you make grandmas like try to interpret Gen Z slang. Yes. You're doing that to me, right? I know. I know. I'm having a great time. OK, and I'm going to see if you get one of them.
00:27:34
Speaker
Oh, i'm God. We'll do three more. Give me freebie at some point. I'll give you a freebie. Okay. Tea. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What's the scoop?
00:27:45
Speaker
Like, you know. Gossip. Gossip. Yeah. Okay. A.K.A. That's Kiana's favorite word. Yes. Yes. I've heard this. Yeah. Does she spill the tea or does she always just look for tea?
00:27:56
Speaker
Both. I've heard her say both. Oh. Yeah. So that's actually. the tea. You know what? t You can spill it because you know it. Like you kind of have to go around finding it all out. That's right. That's right.
00:28:07
Speaker
She's shaking her head at us like that is not how it works. But hey, we're aging ourselves. Yeah. um All right. Let's do two more. This is mortifying. Okay. Continue. on it So this one's fitting for how we're going about this.
00:28:22
Speaker
Chugy. Okay. So i I swear that sounds like like a hairball that's stuck in your throat and you need to get the chugy out. Like, can I just choke it out?
00:28:36
Speaker
I think you're referring to Lugi, what you're referring to. Yes. But I mean, it's kind of sort of same, but not the same. Like not cool. Not cool. Yeah.
00:28:47
Speaker
Yeah. My personal favorite. um We've actually given someone a nickname. ah with an unloyalty. Riz. Riz. Like you got swagger.
00:28:58
Speaker
Yeah. And how do you know that one? When I heard that one, that is pretty good. What did you think it was? I didn't, had no idea.
Conclusion and Listener Invitation
00:29:06
Speaker
But when someone has Riz, it's like they got swagger, they're chippering. Yeah. Wow.
00:29:11
Speaker
Well, who was this person now? I want to know. um liz collati we oh yeah uh liz the riz okay yeah or live i'm a fan of writhing so yeah exactly love that exactly awesome yeah okay well that was fun we've definitely aged ourselves yeah one all right um ah but i had a great time christine me too thank you for inviting me of course fun let's do it again soon all right yeah okay well Everyone, thank you. Welcome back.
00:29:41
Speaker
I hope you enjoyed your commute. ah If you did listen to this on your commute, come say hi in the office. See you soon. Bye.