Transcript
Monika Borycka: Good morning, we welcome you to the podcast Cuts from the future, and welcome you Joanna Frota -Kurkowska and
Monia: Monika Boryska, Trendradar.
Monika Borycka: Ok, we are coming back after a break. We like the expression of We have multiplied. Who is with us in the studio today?
Monia: In the Yes, indeed, we have guests, not two.
Monika Borycka: Nope.
Monia: Girls, please introduce yourselves.
Janota: Katarzyna, are you there? My AstroCabin.
Monia: Obie panie są z grupy roboczej i są z nami tutaj dzisiaj nieprzypadkowo. Not by accident, because we want to talk about the latest edition of the working group, but also the enlarged team, because it was not only the working group that worked this publication. A którą...
Monia: which you, Frota, have probably even won with your media patronage. which has been running for a few days, although it hasn't had its And I
Monia: and we would like you is
Janota: Macroscope is... text.
Janota: and illustrations.
Janota: It is a book that, despite being illustrated, which is often associated with the world of children's literature, is aimed rather at older readers.
Monika Borycka: Mm hmm.
Janota: It was written with the thought... First of group, but it turned out that it is also for adults.
Janota: adequately. Maja was doing tests on exactly.
Monika Borycka: How did the parents' tests turn out? So how'd you?
Janota: tetin agita The
Janota: But for them, for example, these concepts that are in the Because these are things that they, even as people...
Janota: in the
Monia: Yeah, maybe I should...
Monika Borycka: I was just... Hm?
Monia: And I will also say...
Monika Borycka: What's wrong? Turn to the front.
Monia: I will, I will. We are talking about the is
Monia: because this visual layer is also important, but a for So, as you can see, the gap is quite, quite large.
Monika Borycka: I have ale taste monia chi cover bo yeah yeah but needs to
Monika Borycka: I can tell you, the death of the internet is great, lore, you know, forever in the heart Solar Punk, with to to we My mom picked me up now.
Monika Borycka: You know, my mom's phone is ringing and
Monika Borycka: However, I have the impression that some of the recipients of such, you know, I don't want to say normies, but not like us, you know, I mean, not like those sitting, you know, we see, we say, damn, the internet is changing our topics, right? I also have the impression, preparing some reports, for example, internally, that I always try to join the dictionary.
Monika Borycka: And you know, it can be funny, but for us algorithms or something is a common bread, so... Maybe macroscope shouldn't be But it's very... I think...
Monika Borycka: a cool, useful and necessary role of such introduction.
Monika Borycka: Maybe it to it to to
Monika Borycka: Internet. ita pervins on it Macroscope can play a very cool role of an entry po point for those who, on the one hand, want have a lexicon in their hands, and on the other hand, for someone else.
Monika Borycka: for whom these topics are a the Internet. now
Monia: you? put some of oura i'm on pettania to va vanita kes pi our war The
Janota: Maybe I'll start with the audience. This is
Janota: the one hand, are fully immersed in technology and use it every day. But on the
Janota: for various reasons. We thought it would be
Janota: That was our main idea, in the course of
Janota: where it seems that a has great knowledge on board. It's not quite like that, because this distributed.
Janota: People are asking if we could have such workshops or if we could...
Janota: Even the recipient can be there.
Monika Borycka: Mm -hmm.
Janota: Not at all.
Janota: at sotote or is scott shivjivataista poen notto poevva takure cap oftava taki mojani ti bon proia but butos the taki classicne process viav ni trip process prain na shaco taki dos such liard neavve po conte vasha um dakim ronai pi shoka pisha poteocsio iusria poamossio praek tuya totaicoang puvculeuponnorotna kron deesjureota pudientta bill bill viur croyo pisma ito buttonastan pio chaani vocula zetonna pisonnei koac text And
Janota: Kasia and I made a preliminary list
Janota: to and our and to
Janota: to cover a very broad area. In nepoentia inur naristopoyan tro tana brada rosma geshmote aum the
Janota: how to describe an internet on this small page.
Monika Borycka: But that's... mm -hmm
Janota: to take a look at
Janota: They are interesting for them. because it was very important for us.
Monika Borycka: I'm also looking at this list of concepts, they are of course divided, it is also worth mentioning. We have this set of artificial intelligence, which also makes it easier to move around the book. We also have this narration about technologies and there is, among other things, the mythology of technology.
Monika Borycka: ala ah yammo said za piagebo barta mittopher b solveva paduo chagoima ah soi naasz was watching anelist chap bo yeah But a working group you wanted to invite authors.
Monika Borycka: to convey as much as possible and not to make a 600 page volume out of it. So what had to fall out so that this lore, AI slop and the rest would fit?
Monia: This will be the second part. So you can start advertising right away.
Janota: it
Monika Borycka: Bonus page.
Janota: For sure, there were some concepts that we considered to be too special. To - The selection of concepts was a bit like adapting the poetry of this book and
Monika Borycka: okay
Monika Borycka: Hmm?
Janota: which we found to be...
Janota: Hmm?
Monia: It was an interesting decision.
Monika Borycka: But now it's a little bit like... Good luck. Interesting, mega, isn't it?
Monia: I'm sorry. Yes, yes, exactly.
Monika Borycka: Because I also see... just just
Monia: I like that you're talking about...
Monika Borycka: that there were a couple of such...
Monia: Oh Jesus, we can't talk to each other, we both want to comment.
Monika Borycka: We can't talk. Yes.
Monia: I just want to that and not of
Monia: which Maja mentioned, but I didn't want to
Monia: Your approach can be called techno -poetic, that
Monia: These tools of to
Monia: nesalle and gual of na bureauovic for braaga istra etro hatakian ponaga savanina novelta yo to today does vi padaan ah then tamata for aurre but adopt on pa dabo na is or and no cru say bochur atoyna them the vaation sa she them ohem the termavian say that a to
Monia: to show us one face, or some kind of fake face of this technology, and now it can be lied to. And it's the you want to go to the seed of this techno -poetry? poetyckości.
Janota: She was... a condition... absolutely necessary to
Janota: This approach is but a and to to process. um
Janota: I think it's worth adding that Maja is also the author of the book Model i Metafora, so she also studied metaphors. I would like to add something from the perspective of our Working Group Foundation. Maja is talking about us, about the Working Group Foundation.
Janota: that it is very important for us to... to add new layers to the technology because we believe that technology can be done differently. And it to
Janota: in a
Janota: And these narratives that they computer.
Janota: This often leads to equipment and program management. Meanwhile, there is a need and a concept for technology sources. For us, as designers, this is also important.
Janota: and discover their new meanings. Or to fact, what Kasia is talking about, these concepts, narratives,
Janota: metaphors. it all leads to very specific decisions, that is... What colours do we use?
Janota: And
Janota: We feel that it does not reach us, it does not tell the is of expression.
Janota: Not because we think that our music is best, but because diversity is so cokolwiek What can be done differently? seems like a value.
Janota: It was interesting for you things.
Janota: of
Janota: about technology as a field of... Jakiś sferze życia.
Monika Borycka: ah perfect but Fuck.
Monia: I refer to what you said about closed metaphors, for example visual ones. Who didn't get a face of stock banks and photos?
Monia: I mean, these photos always look the same, right? Some kind of half -transparent robot or something like that.
Monika Borycka: albaish marix that i aki visual only marix per Or
Monia: Th -th - Yes, and I used to of
Monia: he yeah created um but the via more than human no metaphorta ah all that vi bushhi miserable a kar muslim kids of peace me tonight against suchhanamoso giva no I but
Monika Borycka: Illustrations, not drawings, I it illustrations, not drawings.
Monia: Illustrazze! Yes, I'm sorry, I'm really sorry. But who
Monia: in the
Monia: So, Froca, which one is your favourite?
Monika Borycka: I don't really like that you did that... Super mega, you know, like... academic intro, and I at on the Internet.
Monia: ah but
Monika Borycka: ausy via This is the bra viiamon yes vikjibo the wape there no davinci puka yu yeah gusloov valley yaletan ai slo patkiachke stranaze ah te gion buttooa sakiji on the matrix of a
Monia: Such a steel, blue part.
Monika Borycka: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Such terrible, terrible things. I'm not saying that I expect it here, God forbid, it's not about that at all, but... It's nice to be surprised when you open the book. I have my three types and they are cool. First of all, it's A .I. Slop, which is here. I won't spoil it, but I'll say it's like this.
Monika Borycka: trochę rzygaczem. also referring to the tradition of art. The second one, which is my favorite, is of course the mythology of technology, because we have such an air -pug element here. And absolutely my best and most beloved illustration, which is techno -feudalism.
Monika Borycka: to renapa ne loakum but which a cover of a I think that a heavy metal with such a raw cut would fit here.
Monika Borycka: So the is of colors. There's the blue one, but it's not exactly that...
Monika Borycka: Futuristic, blue there, combined with green and on the southern matrix. So she is also... I don't want to compare the macroscope to a coffee table book that you buy, it lies there and you can say how smart I am that I have such books, but it also looks nice and it's nice to read it. And I think it also distinguishes her from...
Monika Borycka: Such...
Monika Borycka: it is mainly based on typography. I have the Polish cover school. because graphic design talent. But I like to look at pretty things, and it's also hard to look at these covers.
Monika Borycka: This macroscope really became one of the illustrations in
Monika Borycka: Some of these illustrations can also be found on the .org, if I'm not mistaken.
Monika Borycka: So I also recommend making a little spoiler, but I think you did it. And here's a question for Maja. Some statements, some questions. Did you manage connect...
Monika Borycka: very interesting and complex visual effect with this depth but not writing a thousand pages. The compromise has been achieved and I'm What was my direction? You were thinking about these concepts, that it will be a bit heavy metal, but we are writing about technology.
Janota: yasha baro mozno ispiro vamp tedeio de I
Janota: They conducted very thorough research on
Monika Borycka: Mm hmm.
Janota: ah taak the visual studies in relation to
Janota: iprohuon temptas orruvisia zapro bonovaakkish in and a rosagnanatomma topoo saev spia taki vashnaroques speculative ne form alapoishamra scoro song super chicava badania not and de ma g so vashia butto congratna skidena soyas kesky idla trago gitan vaz moba otaifif tropa vizal nectia Of to in and or a
Janota: And in that sense, they are emotionally completely empty.
Janota: that they are difficult, complicated, multilevel. This is a task I wanted to give to myself while working on these illustrations.
Monika Borycka: I'll just say that we used talk about AI X Design in one of the 100 episodes of our podcast.
Monia: it
Monika Borycka: it has laticus ah ah debe albopaminao alboni pamentaoto bar the poam ah sobi palronni praact ah no but spiums already attack with groundawe va shi materria te concert techlogy national pink named cryotos shabubuuhait And
Monika Borycka: But it's...
Monia: Maybe not only in the the the of the
Monika Borycka: Mm hmm.
Monika Borycka: Mm hmm.
Monia: unsuccessful. And a media, we are able to...
Monia: vi robisttan croc ah albuan on albo is probava oim aov troha inate moto is the puritan moment mo on book rivers voul as national world non some techchnno ven mo channel no ima o v mi said voktrahra takima there's e text of ah kulurre ah e text of badaf nowov ah oo technology nama ibi moa portba but taquego momentos a beta vani vizal and yet bitta vi well i talk just da youa no You do know, vahi tao ah do bro na it ki ki me to to to The Wired or The New Yorker.
Monia: illustrator in Poland, for example, is a sign, right? Who got the topic somewhere and tried to illustrate it.
Monika Borycka: And the letter too, right?
Monia: pismo i tak dalej, no ale to...
Monika Borycka: I think it's something with the writing, yeah.
Monia: vince de kosos on vani attackia baro no praov iusrasia nioc qui samov vie oami technology kobage op leia vou technology vince ah timberive used standinage that will But but
Monia: Maja, did you have any ideas for illustrations? Could you tell us a about the the concept for an illustration?
Janota: the give text was finished.
Monia: Okay.
Janota: That was the timeline of this work.
Monika Borycka: m
Janota: The method was that for each... For each concept I wanted to find a metaphor that could be described with one sentence.
Janota: I don't want it be an impressive illustration. and so that it doesn't show... the effect of some phenomenon, but rather the mechanism.
Janota: mechanism of this phenomenon. Here, for example, I can give you an example of an EA Slop, which is chewing machine. which There are small people in a
Monika Borycka: Mm hmm.
Monia: Mm -hmm.
Monika Borycka: Mm hmm.
Janota: um have aen so pupato butakki her to mamadu ah a a I wanted to show...
Monika Borycka: Let me. Mm hmm.
Janota: because that's what this book is about, how these things work.
Monika Borycka: I really like the fact that these people are covered with this mace and it's really...
Monika Borycka: with this slop and throw these terrible, terrible...
Janota: so vo The whole body? It's us!
Monika Borycka: That's it. the It's a of the others versus to go a but ah me
Monia: Listen, let me change the
Monia: But I'm wondering if you have adopted any rules regarding descriptions, how the authors prepared them, whether it was also known to invite specific people who described these phenomena. Please tell us a little more about it.
Janota: Okay, so when it comes to the the the were working on the There we did some weird exercises. Maja showed us some pictures.
Janota: We wrote poems, for example. There was a poem about accessibility. Talk. Are there any songs? There was only one description.
Janota: I miss you.
Monika Borycka: Oh!
Monia: Damn, there must be some kind of supplement for this. I don't know, I feel like...
Monika Borycka: Listen, you have to immediately... You have to register in a
Monia: let's say
Monika Borycka: Bye.
Monika Borycka: i
Monika Borycka: Listen to me, Vansha, Monia, here, some album for a star, or using, for example, marketing the as Post Regiment or Sedes.
Janota: No, but when you
Monia: But it has to be recorded by AI. It has to be recorded by AI.
Monika Borycka: Because the
Monia: I look at you boys.
Monika Borycka: And we take it as a patron from the place, right? From the patron's place.
Monia: Kasia, before you finish, because here you can see that we have already felt blood, it's a laugh, we also have such... Um... examples, or maybe not More Than Human. It is a conference of i .e. the Association of...
Monia: of science fiction stories.
Monia: So what if you have already written a poem?
Janota: Don't care.
Monia: How did it happen that the poem became quite a detailed description for the book?
Janota: I mean, what for? We did these different exercises to of
Monika Borycka: Mm hmm.
Janota: is but to show that each of us has a slightly different techno -poetics.
Janota: eroshka inache obiciati faahawa I little differently. As for the author's team, it was also a team of
Janota: ah And it was about giving space to describe it in a cool way. What is
Monika Borycka: Mm -hmm
Janota: Now people will talk to they understand it or not. But there was such an assumption somewhere, that it was just...
Monika Borycka: I don't know.
Janota: not self -optimized Um, yeah. absolutely didn't care about writing some... oparnago manuwa la lau pionu guiatanannoekezkazovkitaistnaak pisa jaknya ah thkov trohetai zinove loita ah yos bur better structural lexicon and pozbala buttoiovan yeah eto does a
Monika Borycka: Mm -hmm
Janota: So we can allow for some kind of intended lack of consistency.
Monika Borycka: okay
Monika Borycka: yesukait chiussa is chatto autodopete but you I to on. a bit out of the working group. And here's the question, what...
Monika Borycka: Why didn't you want to leave it only in the working group, but you also opened up to people from outside? Is it a purposeful idea?
Monika Borycka: let's say more diversity and inclusion
Janota: I think we wanted to have a good time doing it.
Monika Borycka: Oh.
Janota: ah A
Janota: and jellyman for the office space, so...
Janota: We have each other on a to
Janota: Let's say that... a safe way to introduce diversity. Hmm.
Monia: butome me take um ummoyatoja butru to she said ab observ bavi ah vo braan which took kick forth of britan in kinga on does snap ofnak in ab observ baish he ah he just aov group as voal in yet like he got hiscyclop pa and yeah so ah yeah ah but puttan viki paja tech na dua vi say i'm just an element the ba playfulness I to to And to the to
Janota: like
Monika Borycka: And I think, Monia, that this is a party,
Monia: It's just...
Janota: true
Monika Borycka: It would be the These are the podcasts we deserve. misla ah was it Damn, I have to give you the word, but it's such a podcast today we will enter the word.
Monika Borycka: You know, there is this mission, but the
Monika Borycka: Doing things for fun and least Okay.
Monia: the content. So I think that... That's many...
Monika Borycka: The show, listen, the author lasted until 9 p .m. at the bank, you know, like, really, think the party was over there.
Janota: relationships of money think
Monika Borycka: It's still ahead of you, you almost already discussed the first part, stop my question.
Monika Borycka: Since we have this macroscope, how do we look at technology? Without numbers, maybe the because
Monika Borycka: it Since this Macroscope is de Pologne? is książką.
Janota: Now we will talk about why these lyrics are like that. We tried make them accessible. hoji oto de gerbe inspirowaj tico beur boreco chiali alreo portriia tech technologylog ge lani yu mogoion The While working on the is called the Playground
Janota: It enables individual or group work with these concepts, creating your own metaphors. both concepts from the as
Janota: a slightly transmedia look, that is, There is a book. but we treat it as a source of content that can be used for something else.
Monia: I like this trope that educators and that this content will continue to live somewhere, but I also like the context that you know that
Monia: that, some kind of concepts. There are often some basic concepts. of him. Your digital hygiene, something like that, right? But when you look at it, well...
Monia: Maybe not in a bad way, I wouldn't take it that way, but you know, thoughtless.
Monia: simply basic, any hooks, as it is the the some
Monia: It's a like not even viishakki ca soka nova sattona names brittan niki albu vikipeddi ah the the
Monia: ludzka ręka wers...
Monika Borycka: I don't keep.
Monia: Yes, I already have a dictionary that I can send somewhere.
Monia: And you about it, how to do it.
Monia: the vins So I'm curious what kind of this So I'm curious how the of
Monika Borycka: And about this aftercare.
Monia: And then there will be an after with singing about A .I. Slop.
Janota: We invite you to the official Krakow premiere of the Design
Janota: And also a story about where this macroscope came from. So I hope it be a boring meeting. As for the author... See you! Does it? We're not no, for sure.
Monika Borycka: Yes. I turned on the calendar, I'm looking at what's there on the 4th of November. Maybe as long as there's After, I won't have to book a hotel then, right?
Janota: to let ourselves be known, which is not easy in today's world of we'll see what happens.
Janota: But we are good at thinking.
Monia: In the world of transcribing content, it's hard to content. And here we hope that... that with this podcast maybe little bit, at least microscopically...
Monia: In contrast to to just ask at the very end...
Monia: Słuchajcie, co to jest ten makroskop?
Janota: What are you doing?
Monika Borycka: so to great
Janota: What does this word mean?
Monia: Yes, yes.
Janota: The opposite of a James Bridle.
Janota: Uh, who is not the is to be used to see the whole ecosystem in its complexity.
Janota: ah
Janota: It's not... It is not a problem, it is just one of
Janota: That's what we really need. interest rate.
Monia: It's just an invitation to the labyrinth, until someone can get to this microscope. I mean, from macro to micro, independently. Super! So what? I guess... I think... We're finishing, we're going to read.
Monika Borycka: Contr - We're ending, but I'll say it again for the tenth time. I'm waiting for the song about techno feudalism. And it really is...
Monia: Did you just drown in this thought? You have to find some...
Monika Borycka: Monia, I didn't think about it, I just saw money in the eyes of a potential dancer, so...
Monia: So, yeah. Yeah.
Monika Borycka: You know, such a viral...
Monia: just different
Monika Borycka: Bye. There would be something to do, so I got stuck, but you know.
Monia: Frota already has a
Janota: Okay.
Monika Borycka: We already had some consultations, and u be it the think it's really...
Janota: That was... bre yet
Monika Borycka: korzystanie z Using the culture and technology to make a song about techno -faudelism, quoting classics, I would like to hear it the most. I think this is a good ending.
Monika Borycka: Thank you with me
Janota: That's a compliment.
Monika Borycka: And... Because, you know, the are touching...
Monia: But it's good, it's a good sign, it's a sign that book used.
Monika Borycka: But that's because, you know...
Monika Borycka: it and touches it. I'm a bit tamed with these paws. But it's good, because there is this curiosity in the nation.
Monia: That's why we thank you, girls, that this is a lexicon that is light and can be taken with you, unlike the eight tons of the British Encyclopedia, or eight or whatever.
Monika Borycka: Or, you know, I have this... shake youam gujifa chios it tempt strano vicor back top but of vo you su okay it got to conoppaia vi the microscope supers she dawa A
Monika Borycka: strong etoag but mishel misha ta povoliimmi ta me fine name mecha mis naman atas mis monico emoja impovve deak matehijama ma materiali a lisa watch yes i could come acrossma macroopia ma material liwia And is
Monia: Best regards to the people in charge of our presentations.
Monika Borycka: i
Monika Borycka: Which they hate, right?
Monia: As usual, it will be delayed.
Monika Borycka: Thank you. Again, this one.
Monia: No, don't do it at the conference, because it will sound like we won't be able to keep up with the schedule.
Monika Borycka: Yes.
Monika Borycka: so
Monika Borycka: of a digital product. Amonia, are you still materializing somewhere?
Monia: Yes, I materialize on October 27th in at and
Monika Borycka: Yes, in public. Oh.
Monia: And the premiere of our report.
Monika Borycka: But I don't know if I can say it yet. I don't know if I can say it yet.
Monia: I don't know what to a brochure in comparison to this edition.
Monika Borycka: Give him.
Monika Borycka: Talk.
Monika Borycka: you move I couldn't do that. Don't say that, because your partners are listening. I can see that this podcast will never monetize.
Monia: Yeah. It's just, you know, a a it
Monika Borycka: No.
Monika Borycka: Thank you very much.
Janota: Thank you very much. Do zobaczenia!
Monia: Do usłyszenia!
Monika Borycka: Bye.
