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Ep 102: Joel Crashes the Party
49 Plays3 years ago
Talking TPF reveals and rumors, No Good Gofers 2.0 kit, and lots of Cactus Canyon. Also there is a bonus segment steal! Who will win between Joel or Scott with the Top 100?!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
We are on episode 102.
00:00:11
Speaker
I am Josh Roop.
00:00:12
Speaker
With me, my co-captain, as always.
00:00:14
Speaker
Scott Larson.
00:00:15
Speaker
And Scott, it's another beautiful day in pinball.
Current State of Pinball and Market Updates
00:00:17
Speaker
It's kind of all quiet on the Western Front right now.
00:00:20
Speaker
Yeah, a little bit.
00:00:22
Speaker
If you want to get on a list, because the TPF rumors are starting to fly.
00:00:27
Speaker
Who are you going to call for this?
00:00:30
Speaker
I would call Zach and Nicole at Flippin' Out Pinball.
00:00:33
Speaker
They have all sorts of things to scratch that itch that you've been having, either for a pinball machine or any sort of game room machine that you want for your fun cave.
Inclusivity in Game Rooms and Personal Life Updates
00:00:46
Speaker
I don't want it to be exclusive to guys.
00:00:49
Speaker
Women can have fun in the cave, too.
00:00:51
Speaker
Your tea shed or your man cave, right?
00:00:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:54
Speaker
And so, you know, let's just, let's just have the fun, the fun dome.
00:00:58
Speaker
Let's make it a fun dome, but yeah, they certainly have things.
00:01:02
Speaker
And if you want to try something else, they have a golden tea and I know that they have.
00:01:07
Speaker
If you want to get like one of those Roth Reels games that has the home version, or if you want to buy a commercial one, I guess, reach out to Zach and Nicole.
00:01:19
Speaker
They've always been easy to work with.
00:01:21
Speaker
I agree.
00:01:22
Speaker
You know, it's like I said, it's kind of quiet right now.
00:01:24
Speaker
So it's me and you, we decided to do a little catching up and there's actually been some media releases that we've received that we haven't been able to talk to talk about on the show.
00:01:35
Speaker
And so I figured you and I would go over these because we've actually had quite a few emails and stuff too.
00:01:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:42
Speaker
But first let's go over what life changes.
00:01:45
Speaker
I'd say in the last two weeks, but it's been, I don't know, it's been a month or two now.
00:01:49
Speaker
I feel like.
00:01:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:51
Speaker
Yeah, well, because we had Keith on and then we had our 100 episode.
00:01:56
Speaker
And it's just been kind of busy.
00:01:58
Speaker
We are...
00:02:00
Speaker
We have finished our renovation on the main level, at least the main stuff.
00:02:05
Speaker
We are slowly matriculating back up.
00:02:09
Speaker
I thought that I had lost the hardware to my bed, but thankfully we figured out where I put it because you put it somewhere where you think this is obvious and then you totally forget about it.
00:02:23
Speaker
And just starting to expand back into our space.
00:02:27
Speaker
I've been playing.
00:02:29
Speaker
I've actually really gotten back into Jurassic Park a lot lately.
00:02:32
Speaker
Nice.
00:02:33
Speaker
So I've been playing a lot of Jurassic Park.
00:02:36
Speaker
But, yeah, that's pretty much my update.
Travel Experiences and Weather Discussion
00:02:43
Speaker
I got back from Guatemala a couple weeks ago and was able to go down there and do some cleft, lips, and palate surgery.
00:02:52
Speaker
So that's always a great experience.
00:02:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:56
Speaker
And, you know, just getting through winter, I guess.
00:03:00
Speaker
I'm kind of in the same boat.
00:03:02
Speaker
We just finished up the bathroom that was quite the project, but now we have a bathroom downstairs.
00:03:07
Speaker
So I can feel comfortable doing pinball tournaments now.
00:03:10
Speaker
I've threatened it for years, and maybe I'll actually start doing it.
00:03:12
Speaker
But we have a bathroom down by the pinball machine, so people wouldn't be running up through the house.
00:03:17
Speaker
And my wife and I went to Puerto Rico for our 15 years.
00:03:21
Speaker
That was a blast.
00:03:22
Speaker
I'd highly recommend to anyone.
00:03:24
Speaker
If you're from the United States, you don't need a passport to go.
00:03:27
Speaker
It was reasonably priced for everything.
00:03:29
Speaker
And I don't know.
00:03:30
Speaker
It was great.
00:03:31
Speaker
Like you said, it's been cold.
00:03:33
Speaker
I know it's not been.
00:03:34
Speaker
Utah's been really cold.
00:03:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:36
Speaker
We've been in negative temperatures, at least where I'm at, for the last two weeks.
00:03:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:41
Speaker
We're lucky to see above single digits.
00:03:42
Speaker
And two days ago, the wind was blowing so hard they had to shut down the roads out of my town.
00:03:48
Speaker
heading towards Colorado because they just, it was insane.
00:03:51
Speaker
Things just blow over.
00:03:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:53
Speaker
So it was nice to get out of the cold.
00:03:55
Speaker
Um, my collection
Pinball Collection Updates and Reactions to Guest Appearance
00:03:56
Speaker
stayed the same.
00:03:56
Speaker
I S I've still got the same pinball machines, but I'm, I'm jonesing.
00:04:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:00
Speaker
I'm jonesing to, uh, change up the lineup just, just a hair.
00:04:04
Speaker
So it'll be interesting to see what happens.
00:04:07
Speaker
Uh, what, what reactions did we get from L1 being on speaking of, uh, rumors?
00:04:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:16
Speaker
And I don't know why you tell me.
00:04:18
Speaker
I don't know.
00:04:19
Speaker
People are excited.
00:04:20
Speaker
They're excited to hear four flippers.
00:04:21
Speaker
They're really curious about this whole two or normal flippers, two or some different type of flippers.
00:04:27
Speaker
It's funny.
00:04:27
Speaker
You joked about a banana flipper, banana flippers.
00:04:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:30
Speaker
And no one, no one took us seriously.
00:04:32
Speaker
They were like, yeah.
00:04:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:36
Speaker
Where was I?
00:04:37
Speaker
Oh, you know what?
00:04:38
Speaker
I'm just going to throw this in there because it happened.
00:04:41
Speaker
Joel Engelberth.
00:04:43
Speaker
All of a sudden, just messages out of the blue.
00:04:45
Speaker
We're like, hey, come join us.
00:04:46
Speaker
And he's like, oh, sorry, I can't, guys.
00:04:47
Speaker
So thanks.
00:04:48
Speaker
Thanks for interrupting the podcast.
00:04:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:50
Speaker
No, it's all good.
00:04:51
Speaker
It's all good.
00:04:53
Speaker
It's fine.
00:04:53
Speaker
It's fine.
00:04:54
Speaker
If you want to hang out with your wife, then as opposed to us, that's fine.
00:04:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:59
Speaker
I see how it is, Joel.
00:05:00
Speaker
At least Travis and Tom have a good excuse.
00:05:02
Speaker
They're at District 82 getting their butts handed to him by Keith Elwin.
00:05:05
Speaker
So I get that excuse.
00:05:08
Speaker
But Joel...
00:05:09
Speaker
sorry joel weak sauce okay back to what we were talking about so we had elwin on
Keith Elwin's Pinball Design Insights
00:05:14
Speaker
the episode yeah uh it was great it's always great having elwin on you know i think it's funny we get harassed though it's like that what was that their 12th time no it's our fifth it's our fifth okay it's okay it's okay it's okay it's all good it's all good no but it was a great episode uh it was it was a great episode and it's what it shows is that
00:05:34
Speaker
it doesn't seem like Keith is slowing down.
00:05:37
Speaker
No, I guess that that's part of it.
00:05:38
Speaker
It seemed like he, uh, when the, when he found out that they were looking for another designer, he's like, look, I, I don't have a game coming out for a while because you know, there's four designers.
00:05:50
Speaker
So I do the math, right?
00:05:52
Speaker
If you're doing two a year, that means you're releasing a game every other year.
00:05:56
Speaker
Yep.
00:05:58
Speaker
And, uh, Keith seems to be able to design them a lot faster.
00:06:04
Speaker
So this totally makes sense for him to be able to jump in and say, Hey, let's, uh, let's go ahead and do this, uh, this one off this, um, uh, this bond 60.
00:06:16
Speaker
I did put in a request though, for him to just, uh, ask George, if they could possibly use, uh, reuse the play fields for a different theme.
00:06:26
Speaker
Maybe they could rename it Supreme or something.
00:06:29
Speaker
Yeah, no, I agree.
00:06:30
Speaker
I, um,
00:06:32
Speaker
I want to say a couple of things, and I'm going to say this very carefully.
00:06:37
Speaker
There is some nuggets that he dropped, but no one noticed it because they weren't paying attention.
00:06:45
Speaker
They heard what they wanted to hear, but they didn't hear the way that he said it.
00:06:50
Speaker
That is the stuff I'm going to give you.
00:06:51
Speaker
If you want to go back and re-listen to that episode.
00:06:54
Speaker
The one question we failed to ask that I wish we would have is ask him how many projects deep he is.
00:06:59
Speaker
Because, you know, in previous episodes, he's talked about, well, I'm three games ahead or I'm two games ahead.
00:07:05
Speaker
And that's even one we forgot to ask off air.
00:07:08
Speaker
But it's great to see that Keith is up for the challenge.
00:07:12
Speaker
Like he said, I'm up for the challenge.
00:07:14
Speaker
Give me a chance.
00:07:16
Speaker
And really, Keith has elevated pinball.
00:07:19
Speaker
And I feel like we've had this discussion off air.
00:07:23
Speaker
Even his failures would probably still feel like successes.
00:07:27
Speaker
I just don't see Keith falling hard enough for it to be a long-lasting effect.
00:07:34
Speaker
You see what I'm saying?
00:07:35
Speaker
I would say so far he hasn't had a messed up.
00:07:40
Speaker
And that's really impressive.
00:07:42
Speaker
Four for four for your first...
00:07:45
Speaker
you know, when you enter in the design process and your first four games are amazing.
00:07:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:52
Speaker
And that says a lot about the talent level you're working with.
00:07:55
Speaker
Well, and I honestly think he's five for five with Bond 60th.
00:07:58
Speaker
I really think.
00:07:59
Speaker
Yeah, that will be great.
00:08:01
Speaker
I definitely want to get some time in on it.
00:08:04
Speaker
My friend's getting it.
00:08:05
Speaker
I'm not sure when it's going to come in.
00:08:07
Speaker
One person had brought up, I guess not one person, there was a handful of people that brought this up.
00:08:11
Speaker
Why didn't we ask him about Price?
00:08:13
Speaker
Keith was only asked to do the play field.
00:08:15
Speaker
And he has no control over Price.
00:08:17
Speaker
I don't want to harp on him about Price.
00:08:18
Speaker
Why did you ask?
00:08:20
Speaker
Why is this 20 grand?
00:08:21
Speaker
What's, what's he going to say?
00:08:22
Speaker
Like if he's against it, he's not going to say like I'm against what Stern just did.
00:08:27
Speaker
That that's not, that's not in his umbrella.
00:08:29
Speaker
Exactly.
00:08:30
Speaker
So I just, he's a designer, not, not the marketer or, I mean, that would be a question for George.
00:08:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:36
Speaker
About pricing.
00:08:37
Speaker
But as George has said before, they're going to have pricing for different
Pinball Pricing Strategies and Tournament Experiences
00:08:43
Speaker
customers.
00:08:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:44
Speaker
And if there is an elite customer who wants to spend a lot of money on one game, they're going to make a game for that.
00:08:52
Speaker
If you have an average person who just wants a fun, less expensive toy, they have the home pin line.
00:09:00
Speaker
There's a reason why they have, they basically have five options right now.
00:09:04
Speaker
They have the home pin, they have the pro premium LE, and then they're, they're super, uh, you know, the, the,
00:09:13
Speaker
the short run, but high dollar things.
00:09:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:16
Speaker
And that would be worse.
00:09:18
Speaker
No, no.
00:09:18
Speaker
And that would be where Supreme was.
00:09:20
Speaker
And, and you could, you could argue that heavy metal was a short run, but they price that a little more.
00:09:27
Speaker
So there's kind of a specialty line, I guess I'll put it that way, that the pricing could be variable.
00:09:32
Speaker
Yes.
00:09:33
Speaker
And that reminds me, sorry.
00:09:35
Speaker
Uh, I actually did a pinball tournament.
00:09:37
Speaker
just last weekend speaking of heavy metal that is a brutal game my good sir it it is fun it is fast it is definitely a tournament game if you're looking for a good tournament game i know it's the same layout as star wars and uh supreme and spider-man uh all home editions but you know what it was it was fun but it was mean it was not forgiving
00:09:59
Speaker
Uh, I was very proud of myself.
00:10:01
Speaker
Went up to Salt Lake, got to meet, uh, go to Nick for man D Manny.
00:10:09
Speaker
I'm sorry, dude.
00:10:09
Speaker
Like I'm not good at names.
00:10:12
Speaker
Uh, and we played his collection.
00:10:16
Speaker
Wonderful collection.
00:10:16
Speaker
Uh, Godzilla pro, uh, Simpsons pinball party, heavy metal, uh, rollercoaster tycoon, cactus Canyon, um, black hole, uh,
00:10:27
Speaker
Apollo 13, a joust, not the head-to-head joust, but the EM two-player.
00:10:33
Speaker
Not many people are aware of it.
00:10:37
Speaker
Great collection.
00:10:37
Speaker
It was a really good time, and I ended up taking third.
00:10:40
Speaker
It was wonderful.
00:10:41
Speaker
I knocked out Mark Laird.
00:10:46
Speaker
Mark Laird.
00:10:47
Speaker
I knocked out Mark Laird, which is insane to me because that man is so... He's a good player.
00:10:51
Speaker
He's on the next level.
00:10:53
Speaker
Mike Lund got knocked out before me, which Iceman has taken out Steve Bowden in Nationals.
00:11:00
Speaker
And then Josh Craig.
00:11:02
Speaker
And he was also a former state champ.
00:11:04
Speaker
So three state champs, and I was able to get past him.
00:11:09
Speaker
Logan Smith ended up taking first.
00:11:11
Speaker
He's one of those young kids you want to keep an eye on.
00:11:13
Speaker
His career is going to take off.
00:11:14
Speaker
He's...
00:11:15
Speaker
11, 12, somewhere around there.
00:11:16
Speaker
He's young.
00:11:17
Speaker
Yeah, and his parents opened a pinball bar up in Ogden, so that's nice.
00:11:25
Speaker
Okay, breaking news.
00:11:26
Speaker
We actually have the third co-host for Loser Kid Pinball.
00:11:32
Speaker
I would like to welcome Travis Murie to the podcast.
00:11:35
Speaker
How you doing, Travis?
00:11:37
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:11:41
Speaker
That was pretty good.
00:11:42
Speaker
I thought that was a decent impression.
00:11:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:44
Speaker
Well, at least your video is working.
00:11:49
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:11:49
Speaker
Well, Travis, you got to say like tur, tur, tur.
00:11:54
Speaker
Other words that he's – I don't know.
00:11:57
Speaker
Meta, the meta of the game.
00:11:59
Speaker
There's so many Travis Miriams.
00:12:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:03
Speaker
Okay, so we actually don't have Travis Murie and we don't have Tom because Travis and Tom are actually playing at a competition.
00:12:10
Speaker
But we do have Joel from the Triple Drain podcast.
00:12:15
Speaker
Who did not play in a competition.
00:12:16
Speaker
No, I actually, it's Friday night.
00:12:19
Speaker
I play volleyball in a co-ed league with my wife.
00:12:22
Speaker
We just got home from that.
00:12:24
Speaker
Nana left.
00:12:24
Speaker
The kids are asleep, all that stuff.
00:12:27
Speaker
And I get a random message.
00:12:28
Speaker
Hey, you guys want to record a podcast?
00:12:29
Speaker
I'm like, guys, it's Friday night.
00:12:31
Speaker
And so I jokingly say to my wife,
00:12:33
Speaker
Hey, apparently people want to record a podcast right now.
00:12:35
Speaker
My wife's like, to be honest, I have a glass of wine.
00:12:37
Speaker
I want to sit here on the couch and look at my phone for like the next 45 minutes.
00:12:41
Speaker
So if you want to go do that, I'm like, okay.
00:12:45
Speaker
So here I am.
00:12:46
Speaker
What is she watching?
00:12:48
Speaker
It's just Facebook, you know, just.
00:12:50
Speaker
She wants to do scroll.
00:12:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:53
Speaker
I don't know.
00:12:54
Speaker
Whatever.
00:12:54
Speaker
I get it.
00:12:54
Speaker
It makes her happy.
00:12:57
Speaker
I think, I think every wife does that.
00:12:59
Speaker
I, I, Oh yeah.
00:13:00
Speaker
No, seriously.
00:13:01
Speaker
It's yeah.
00:13:03
Speaker
No, it's all good.
00:13:04
Speaker
And dudes do it too.
00:13:05
Speaker
I mean, I see people on their phones all the time.
00:13:06
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:13:08
Speaker
But hey, why do that when I can talk with you guys and make fun of Travis?
00:13:12
Speaker
I'm always down.
00:13:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:13
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:14
Speaker
So first off, I do want to talk about a few things with Joel because Joel, you have a Cactus Canyon on loan to you.
00:13:23
Speaker
Yep.
Cactus Canyon Code Completion and Playability
00:13:24
Speaker
And you did beat the...
00:13:28
Speaker
original completed now now is this code the original kind of unfinished code or was this their version of the code that chicago game company did that is not the same thing as the limon sheets it is definitely not the limon code the limon code has not come out um at all this is they say they completed the original code and what i don't know i never played the original code but like i know like the original code didn't even have like a match
00:13:54
Speaker
animation at the end you know so they're match yeah yeah so it's very clear i mean what i will say is now that i've i've seen every aspect of the game it feels like a complete game it feels like okay there's you know it's not now some of the modes are um
00:14:10
Speaker
You know, there's a few modes that are one shot, like you start a mode and you you hit one shot in the modes over.
00:14:15
Speaker
So that to me is my guess is when the lineman code comes out, I don't I'm not expecting him to add, you know, eight new modes and eight more wizard modes like that.
00:14:26
Speaker
I would just assume they're going to start flushing out, you know, and giving more depth to some of these things.
00:14:31
Speaker
Um, so maybe instead of just one shot, maybe it's, well, if you hit these other shots, you can build a value and then, yeah, I don't know.
00:14:38
Speaker
We'll see.
00:14:39
Speaker
But either way, what I've experienced in the game, I've really enjoyed.
00:14:42
Speaker
You still like it?
00:14:43
Speaker
I do.
00:14:44
Speaker
I was, I, I beat it the other night and I was kind of one of those, do I care?
00:14:48
Speaker
Like, do I, do I want to play the game again?
00:14:50
Speaker
And, and, um, yeah, I've played it.
00:14:52
Speaker
I keep playing it and I'm still having fun.
00:14:54
Speaker
It's just a, there are some very fun things, very close to the start button that in my mind, haven't gotten old yet, you know?
00:15:01
Speaker
And, um,
00:15:02
Speaker
And I'm so I'm enjoying it.
00:15:04
Speaker
And I know I'm going to stream it again on the flipping out stream on Wednesday.
00:15:07
Speaker
So that'll be another two hours.
00:15:09
Speaker
My brother and I will play.
00:15:09
Speaker
So that'll be after that stream is really when I'll know whether or not I'm like still in love with the game or like, OK, I can get you.
00:15:17
Speaker
I can check that box.
00:15:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:18
Speaker
it's a great game and i think the problem is is it needs the lineman code to make it more of a bolt to the floor game i think the problem is is it's there's a lot of memorable lines i i don't care who you are everyone everyone quotes the lock is lit lock is lit and so yeah yeah
00:15:36
Speaker
It has been so... My friends and family, they just are drawn to the game, and it has so many good toys and mechs.
00:15:45
Speaker
It's so approachable that everybody's having a good time with it.
00:15:48
Speaker
And so because of that, to see people wanting to play pinball in my house is so...
00:15:55
Speaker
fun to see that it's like man maybe a game like this whether it's cactus can your medieval madness something along these lines makes sense in my small collection but i'll tell you if the if the lineman code code genuinely brings depth and something to like don't mess with what's currently there just give me more of it because what's currently there everybody's enjoying i just would love to go even further with it and have more pull to go deeper in the game yeah
00:16:23
Speaker
Well, the shots are very easy on that game.
00:16:25
Speaker
Well, depending on how it's set up.
00:16:27
Speaker
So it's not super hard to get like Stampede.
00:16:30
Speaker
That's if you've ever played Attack from Mars, that is the total annihilation mode.
00:16:37
Speaker
So Stampede is total annihilation.
00:16:39
Speaker
Yeah, you just do all the modes.
00:16:41
Speaker
Well, no, you shoot all the shots three times.
00:16:43
Speaker
Well, yeah, you shoot a shot three times, it starts a mode, but you still, you can't, while you're in that mode, you're not getting shots towards
Designing Pinball for All Skill Levels
00:16:50
Speaker
the other stuff.
00:16:50
Speaker
Like you have to finish the mode before you get more shots towards the other shots.
00:16:54
Speaker
Correct.
00:16:55
Speaker
So you, in essence, have to play all the modes.
00:16:57
Speaker
Except for the last one.
00:16:58
Speaker
When you shoot the last shot that you haven't missed, you don't even play that mode.
00:17:02
Speaker
It just goes straight into Stampede.
00:17:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:04
Speaker
But it's fun.
00:17:06
Speaker
It's, what I've noticed is...
00:17:08
Speaker
There's no question.
00:17:10
Speaker
It's just you just hit three shots and it starts a mode.
00:17:12
Speaker
And that's that's something that to see like my brother or my sister in law, like they're just starting modes and they don't even realize it.
00:17:19
Speaker
Like that's something that is really hard compared to a modern game.
00:17:22
Speaker
You know, like Godzilla.
00:17:23
Speaker
Hey, to start a battle, you have to hit two ramps and then you have to hit the scoop.
00:17:26
Speaker
You have to do that in that order.
00:17:28
Speaker
There's no other way you're going to start a battle.
00:17:30
Speaker
this, you just kind of, you can mistakenly just get right into it.
00:17:33
Speaker
And that's pretty cool.
00:17:34
Speaker
You can tumble into modes.
00:17:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:36
Speaker
The, I will say the, this is the challenge that modern pinball has is finding that sweet spot of, you know,
00:17:45
Speaker
okay, how accessible is the game for a non, like a better than casual player?
00:17:52
Speaker
Like how, how accessible is it for below that?
00:17:55
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:17:55
Speaker
I mean, below that.
00:17:56
Speaker
So you, all, all three of us, if we stand up to a game, we're going to look at the rules set.
00:18:02
Speaker
We'll say, okay, how do we start the modes?
00:18:04
Speaker
What are we doing?
00:18:06
Speaker
The entry-level player has no idea what's going on.
00:18:10
Speaker
They don't even see the flashing light.
00:18:12
Speaker
However, the magic of the Bally Williams is they had that thing, whatever it is, that was fun to shoot.
00:18:18
Speaker
So in Cactus Canyon, it's shooting up and Bart's head flies back.
00:18:24
Speaker
In Medieval Madness, the castle goes blowing.
00:18:28
Speaker
And just things like that are interesting and they're not that difficult.
00:18:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:33
Speaker
To get into.
00:18:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:35
Speaker
Bash toys are just obvious.
00:18:37
Speaker
Like they're obvious what you're trying to do.
00:18:39
Speaker
And, you know, to Godzilla's credit, you have the Mechagodzilla bash toy up the ramp.
00:18:43
Speaker
You have the building right up the ramp.
00:18:44
Speaker
But I know I'll get hate from Dennis Grisel because I'm going to mention Deadpool.
00:18:49
Speaker
But like Deadpool, the scoop is lit from the start.
00:18:52
Speaker
So all a novice player has to do is fall into it.
00:18:55
Speaker
There's no qualifying that.
00:18:57
Speaker
It just falls in and then, oh, I'm in a battle.
00:19:00
Speaker
I can do this and this.
00:19:00
Speaker
So yes, but you're right.
00:19:02
Speaker
You don't want it to be so easy that anybody above a novice is going to be bored of the process.
00:19:08
Speaker
But yet if you have something like turtles, turtles, you have to hit two ramps.
00:19:13
Speaker
And then the turtle van and those ramps aren't exactly the easiest shots.
00:19:17
Speaker
You can have people step up and go through three balls and never start an episode.
00:19:21
Speaker
And then what's, you know, it's not fun.
00:19:24
Speaker
And they walk away.
00:19:24
Speaker
Then are they going to put another dollar in or $2 or whatever it is now?
00:19:30
Speaker
My friend actually may have ended up with two LEs.
00:19:34
Speaker
And so if that does come to fruition, I'm going to buy one of the LEs because that is a perfect game for my kids to want to play pinball.
00:19:48
Speaker
Yeah, but it's also like what I've found, I consider myself above a novice, but it's just if I want to just come down and immediately have fun playing pinball, like I get that with Godzilla just because the shots feel so good.
00:20:01
Speaker
But like I can immediately have fun with Cactus Canyon.
00:20:03
Speaker
There's fun there so close to the flipper that it's just like, let's just have a good time.
00:20:09
Speaker
I don't have to...
00:20:10
Speaker
focus in and commit to a long playing whatever to really, you know, like I want to get to this wizard mode and that's where the fun's at.
00:20:16
Speaker
It's like, no, you can just immediately have fun with it.
00:20:19
Speaker
But I would say the biggest thing that I've realized, because now if I'm considering a Chicago gaming game in my collection,
00:20:25
Speaker
the le's of every other game are so expensive like the value of these games is just continuing to go up and the topper is so well done on this game that to me if i was going to buy one right now i i would get an se plus if i could uh well because i don't i don't think i can get an le anywhere right but um
00:20:45
Speaker
But yeah, if you're thinking about it at all, you might as well, you might as well jump in on the LE while you can because the value is only going up.
Chicago Gaming Company Pinball Machines
00:20:53
Speaker
And it actually, I was really on the fence when my friend unboxed it.
00:20:58
Speaker
And so he invited us over and we came down and I opened it up and I'm like,
00:21:03
Speaker
Wow, they seem to elevate every release by increasing the quality, by increasing the build.
00:21:13
Speaker
And it is a solid game that I would feel confident in buying that would continue to work in an arcade environment, in a home environment.
00:21:24
Speaker
It's...
00:21:25
Speaker
You know, the only knock on Chicago gaming is it takes them a while to make games.
00:21:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:29
Speaker
And I will getting this game.
00:21:31
Speaker
Yeah, I had because I streamed for flipping out and I Zach is super generous in letting me borrow games.
00:21:37
Speaker
And I had so low hopes for this game.
00:21:39
Speaker
I was just like, oh, it'll be fun.
00:21:40
Speaker
It'll be something to do until Scooby Doo shows up or Bond 60th.
00:21:44
Speaker
And I have just been completely blown away by this game.
00:21:47
Speaker
The build quality, the the light show, the sound package, the the extended XL DMD.
00:21:54
Speaker
I'm I the topper like everything to have no expectations and then just be like this game is really really really good I don't know it just completely took me by surprise so I'm and and it kind of put CGC on the map for me of like I've never even considered a CGC game and now I'm impressed like I'm really impressed and I think that's why there's so few sold because a lot of people that got them they waited a long time to get them they got them and they bolted them they're just like yep this is my collection and that's that
00:22:23
Speaker
But I don't know.
00:22:24
Speaker
I feel like I've talked.
00:22:25
Speaker
I also do on Flippin' Out.
00:22:26
Speaker
I do the Flippin' Out with Friends, and I gushed all over it on that stream.
00:22:29
Speaker
And I've gushed all over it on Triple Drain.
00:22:32
Speaker
So people are probably sick of it.
00:22:33
Speaker
But hey, reach out to Zach.
00:22:34
Speaker
Order an SE+.
00:22:35
Speaker
Tell him Joel sent you because I love it.
00:22:37
Speaker
I freaking love this game.
00:22:38
Speaker
It will gladly give it a big thumbs up from me.
00:22:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:42
Speaker
Well, that's good.
00:22:43
Speaker
I love playing it too.
00:22:45
Speaker
And it's, it is fun to have that game.
00:22:47
Speaker
It's, it's like whitewater.
00:22:49
Speaker
Whitewater is not a, not a deep game, but it is fun for the average player.
00:22:54
Speaker
They can do something cool.
00:22:57
Speaker
Yeah, I agree.
00:22:58
Speaker
And I know Kerry Hardy hopped on my stream when I was talking about it.
00:23:00
Speaker
And I know he has a Cactus Canyon.
00:23:02
Speaker
And I asked him, I was like, Kerry Hardy, I mean, he's got an incredible collection.
00:23:06
Speaker
I know he's a good player.
00:23:07
Speaker
And he just said, he goes, Cactus Canyon is just fun.
00:23:11
Speaker
Like it is just fun pinball.
00:23:13
Speaker
And to have something like that, you can just step up and have a good time that you don't have to grind away from or work.
00:23:19
Speaker
I mean, it's.
00:23:20
Speaker
I don't know.
00:23:20
Speaker
I have enjoyed it.
00:23:21
Speaker
I've played it every day that I've had it because everybody says it's an easy game.
00:23:25
Speaker
Everybody says it's easy.
00:23:26
Speaker
So I'm like, I better beat this game before it's gone or else I'm going to, you know, if the easy game I can't beat, I got to beat it before it's gone.
00:23:34
Speaker
And so, yeah, I've played the heck out of it and I beat it, but I still want to play the heck out of it because I know Zach will come pick it up probably within a week or two.
00:23:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:43
Speaker
Well, and honestly, looking at the market right now, even on Pinside, there's not a lot on...
00:23:49
Speaker
for sale.
00:23:50
Speaker
I mean, even if you ask Zach from flipping out, when I last looked at his list, he doesn't have any cactus Canyon in stock.
00:23:56
Speaker
It seemed like this game sat for a little bit and now you can't find them.
00:24:00
Speaker
And so until these SE pluses start trickling out for sale, I just think that's going to be a little harder to find these.
00:24:07
Speaker
I think people, they start getting on location.
00:24:09
Speaker
They start playing with that.
00:24:10
Speaker
This is actually a fun game.
00:24:11
Speaker
It shoots great.
00:24:12
Speaker
And I enjoy it.
00:24:13
Speaker
There's just something to be said about a casual, uh,
00:24:18
Speaker
game that just kind of caters to you.
00:24:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:21
Speaker
It's great to have an Iron Man in your collection, something that kind of beats you up in short ball times and it's fast and fun.
00:24:27
Speaker
But there's something to be said about Medieval Madness, Cactus Canyon, just those casual, fun games that every time you turn on, it puts a smile on your face and you just enjoy playing.
00:24:38
Speaker
I think if you have a four pin collection like you do, Joel, it's one of the it's an essential pin to have in the collection.
00:24:44
Speaker
And then you have your beat them up like your total nuclear annihilation and then Deadpool, something a little more modern, but it could be a little easier.
00:24:50
Speaker
So, yeah, it's it's great.
00:24:52
Speaker
I mean, in a perfect role, I get it.
00:24:55
Speaker
it's a constant battle when you have a collection of trying to curate it and make it, you know, what, what fits me, but also others.
00:25:01
Speaker
And some people have that mentality of like, I don't buy pins for others.
00:25:03
Speaker
I'm just, I'm the one that plays them 98% of the time.
00:25:06
Speaker
So I want to get the games that I want and that's fine, but it's, it's just, I can't express the amount of joy it's brought me over the last two, three weeks, seeing people play this game and have a good time.
00:25:16
Speaker
And, uh, and it's like, well, crap, they're enjoying the game that I don't own.
00:25:19
Speaker
Like maybe, maybe I need to change something here, you know?
00:25:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:24
Speaker
Okay, so I'm going to move on from it because we're running short on time with Joel.
00:25:27
Speaker
And so I want to move on to the Texas Pinball Festival.
Anticipation for Texas Pinball Festival
00:25:31
Speaker
And some of the rumors, some of the reveals are coming up.
00:25:35
Speaker
First off, let's talk about
00:25:38
Speaker
I'm not going to lie.
00:25:39
Speaker
We've reached out to multiple guests this week.
00:25:41
Speaker
And the catchphrase I've heard from every single one of them is let's talk after Texas.
00:25:47
Speaker
Right.
00:25:47
Speaker
Things are coming to Texas.
00:25:49
Speaker
Yes.
00:25:50
Speaker
And it's from multiple companies.
00:25:52
Speaker
I'm not allowed to say what's coming because they didn't tell me.
00:25:56
Speaker
But I'm not going to tell you what companies told me to wait until after Texas.
00:25:59
Speaker
But I can tell you... All of them.
00:26:01
Speaker
Every single one, yeah.
00:26:02
Speaker
Yes, Texas is very happening, and it's going to be very interesting to see.
00:26:06
Speaker
One thing that we did get told, though, that we were allowed to share is the Electric Playground Company.
00:26:14
Speaker
This is a new company.
00:26:15
Speaker
If you want to check out their website, it's just teppinball.com.
00:26:21
Speaker
Go check it out.
00:26:22
Speaker
They're getting ready to unveil something at Texas.
00:26:25
Speaker
If you haven't seen their original Godzilla topper,
00:26:28
Speaker
It's pretty amazing for two dudes out of their garage, right?
00:26:32
Speaker
I sent this both over to you, Joel and Scott.
00:26:34
Speaker
What did you think of this topper, this Godzilla topper?
00:26:37
Speaker
Uh, I was really, I actually, I saw somebody posted a picture of something and I, cause I'm in the Godzilla thread and I saw the topper and I reached out to the guy.
00:26:45
Speaker
I was like, what is that topper?
00:26:46
Speaker
And then he sent me contact information with another guy.
00:26:49
Speaker
They didn't have a website.
00:26:50
Speaker
It was just like background, reach out to a guy and he, and he shot me a price, told me it was a limited run that they were doing, sent me a bunch more pictures and it's, it's incredibly well done.
00:27:00
Speaker
Um,
00:27:00
Speaker
layered plastics with metal brackets.
00:27:03
Speaker
Like it doesn't look like it looks professional and there's light.
00:27:07
Speaker
It's like integrated into, he sent me the install guide.
00:27:11
Speaker
Like you, you plug it into different switch.
00:27:13
Speaker
So different lights go off.
00:27:14
Speaker
And that's something I'm finding more and more.
00:27:16
Speaker
One of the reasons I really like the actual stern toppers is
00:27:20
Speaker
is the light integration or the integration of the topper with the game.
00:27:25
Speaker
Obviously, Cactus Canyon does that incredibly well, more than just something stagnant that's just sitting on top of the machine.
00:27:30
Speaker
So I was super impressed by it.
00:27:32
Speaker
The only reason I didn't pull the trigger is one, I don't know what Stern's making, so I don't know if it's going to be better or worse.
00:27:38
Speaker
And two, a lot of it was art pulled.
00:27:41
Speaker
directly from the game.
00:27:42
Speaker
So it was zombie Yeti art that was pulled from the cabinet.
00:27:47
Speaker
So it looks great, but it's just like, well, this is artwork I already have.
00:27:50
Speaker
So let me wait to see what Stern does.
00:27:52
Speaker
But I will say I was thoroughly impressed by it.
00:27:54
Speaker
Thoroughly impressed by what I saw.
00:27:56
Speaker
What do you think, Scott?
00:27:57
Speaker
Yeah, the integration was great.
00:27:59
Speaker
The light show.
00:28:01
Speaker
Yes, this is where you're walking that fine line of if they are going to transition or it sounds like they're planning on it into a mod company of some sort.
00:28:13
Speaker
You're going to have to start dealing with outside the fan art realm.
00:28:18
Speaker
Like if you're doing something for yourself and then, you know, the licensors don't really look too much at like a one-off project that you're doing for your own game.
00:28:28
Speaker
But if you're actually going to market it, then you start getting into
00:28:32
Speaker
well, we either need to make our own art or license some sort of art.
00:28:38
Speaker
And it's unlikely that Stern will license their art to a third party.
00:28:43
Speaker
So that's, that's where the challenge is.
00:28:46
Speaker
However, I, I'm with Joel.
00:28:49
Speaker
I like having interaction.
00:28:50
Speaker
I like having the dynamic light show with the toppers, as opposed to just an illuminated thing.
00:28:57
Speaker
That's the reason why the medieval madness topper is so great.
00:29:01
Speaker
I mean, it's a stagnant topper.
00:29:03
Speaker
but it has this interactive light show that, that grabs your attention.
00:29:07
Speaker
And even the, you know, you know, uh, the attack from Mars.
00:29:11
Speaker
I still love that one because it jumps up and down, but that's what I'm looking for in a topper.
00:29:16
Speaker
And you know what, to be, to be fair, I, I was impressed with the Mandalorian topper, but that was a price too far for me.
00:29:29
Speaker
And so like, where's that sweet spot of like these, because you have these elite toppers that are like 1500 or 2500.
00:29:37
Speaker
I mean, you saw the one that for our, um, for Pirates of the Caribbean.
Pinball Toppers and Modding Challenges
00:29:42
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:29:43
Speaker
And like, those were really impressive.
00:29:45
Speaker
The Indiana Jones one with 24 karat gold or whatever it was.
00:29:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:49
Speaker
Don't touch it, but it looks great.
00:29:51
Speaker
No, it looked, it looked great.
00:29:52
Speaker
But at some point you're thinking, wow, like that's half a game.
00:29:57
Speaker
Yep.
00:29:57
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:29:59
Speaker
I thought this topper looks amazing, this Godzilla topper.
00:30:02
Speaker
This is how good it is.
00:30:04
Speaker
It fooled people in the community to make them think this was the official topper coming out from Stern.
00:30:09
Speaker
That's how good this topper was.
00:30:12
Speaker
And so if you're producing that top of quality, I can't wait to see what they have at Texas Pinball Festival because they're coming with a new topper for a classic Bally Williams game.
00:30:24
Speaker
And it's going to be a showstopper.
00:30:28
Speaker
I'm excited to see what they're going to do.
00:30:30
Speaker
And the titles in the nineties are going to have a little more flexibility for using, or for at least contracting your own art or doing something that, that blends well with the art on the cabinet already.
00:30:45
Speaker
Yeah, you don't have to do like a specific character or person or something.
00:30:49
Speaker
I mean, you can make it fit in.
00:30:51
Speaker
But I know the reason that one topper looks so good is because it is Zombie Yeti's art.
00:30:55
Speaker
So I know they're kind of sketching a fine line there of pulling, you know, using art that they didn't produce.
00:31:00
Speaker
But it looked, it blended in perfectly with the cabinet.
00:31:04
Speaker
And that's where I struggle with some after mods.
00:31:06
Speaker
You know, any mod that I put on a game, I want it to feel like it could be original with the game.
00:31:10
Speaker
And that's, you know, art blades are another thing where if I don't like the stern art blades, like Deadpool, there's so much red in the game already.
00:31:18
Speaker
The Deadpool art blades are just solid red, essentially, unless you have an LE.
00:31:21
Speaker
And so I was looking at every other version of the art blade possible.
00:31:25
Speaker
And it just bothered me because the art style, even though it's Deadpool, it's a different art style and it stood out.
00:31:30
Speaker
So I ended up going mirror blades because I just couldn't justify going with a different art style.
00:31:34
Speaker
But it now it's the...
00:31:37
Speaker
The interesting thing is with this topper, you notice they actually had a third party translate in there.
00:31:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:46
Speaker
And so, so that was interesting because they didn't, that does switch up the art a little bit, but I'm with you, Joel.
00:31:52
Speaker
It's, it can be a little challenging.
00:31:54
Speaker
I want it to feel like it's married.
00:31:57
Speaker
Oh yes.
00:31:58
Speaker
And so, and I actually have the alternative back glass in my medieval madness.
00:32:02
Speaker
Uh, the, the one that Brian Allen did, um,
00:32:06
Speaker
And I got the art blades that he did too, because mine, you know, I just wanted to make it a little different.
00:32:11
Speaker
But it feels like it's all one package.
00:32:16
Speaker
So I like that, but...
00:32:17
Speaker
Well, that brings up like, so Cactus Canyon, if I'm looking at the SE+, the SE+, doesn't come with art blades.
00:32:22
Speaker
The LE does.
00:32:24
Speaker
And they don't, Chicago Gaming doesn't sell those art blades.
00:32:27
Speaker
So I'm like, crap, I can't get art blades from the company that match this art style.
00:32:31
Speaker
So then you're looking at Flyland Designs, which are, that art is incredible.
00:32:35
Speaker
But it's like, well, if I'm going to have that art style and the art blades, then I better swap out the Translite so that I can get some sort of cohesive, you know, art thing going.
00:32:45
Speaker
And I don't know, you know, first world problems.
00:32:48
Speaker
But these are the things I think about and I haven't even bought the game.
00:32:51
Speaker
Right.
00:32:51
Speaker
Yep.
00:32:54
Speaker
The toppers, I'm with you.
00:32:56
Speaker
I am willing to pay money for a topper as long as it looks like it could have come with the game.
00:33:01
Speaker
Yep.
00:33:02
Speaker
I agree.
00:33:03
Speaker
I have taken the plunge.
00:33:05
Speaker
Scott, you've taken the plunge.
00:33:06
Speaker
Once you get in the topper world, prepare yourself because you're stuck.
00:33:09
Speaker
You're stuck.
00:33:10
Speaker
You have to get a topper.
00:33:12
Speaker
And that's what's silly is if I'm playing, if I'm thinking to myself, I want to get a CGC game.
00:33:16
Speaker
Well, like I can't get a monster bash unless I get an LE and I'm not going to pay that much for it.
00:33:21
Speaker
Like I, and the aftermarket toppers don't work.
00:33:22
Speaker
It's a silly game.
00:33:24
Speaker
Part of me was just sell all my toppers so I can get back out of it and feel free again.
00:33:28
Speaker
But at the same time, I love them.
00:33:30
Speaker
Like the, I really do think if you get a good one that integrates well with the game,
00:33:34
Speaker
It's worth it.
00:33:35
Speaker
Hey, Joel, don't tell anyone, but I still have a Black Knight topper in the box.
00:33:40
Speaker
You're just ready.
00:33:41
Speaker
You're ready to go.
00:33:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:42
Speaker
But I will say like back, I know we've already moved on, but the Cactus Canyon topper, it legitimately adds something to the game.
00:33:50
Speaker
The knock sound, it makes every single time that you shoot something.
00:33:52
Speaker
And then the video mode, that's actually a physical mode.
00:33:55
Speaker
It's like the lights associate with the you.
00:33:58
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:33:58
Speaker
People are the windows and stuff.
00:34:00
Speaker
It is.
00:34:00
Speaker
It's so like in my mind, Black Knight Topper school.
00:34:03
Speaker
But this this is probably number one with when it comes to top.
00:34:07
Speaker
OK, so to me, it's like I've got if I can buy the game with that and it adds that much to the game, I would if I was if I was buying a Cactus Canyon right now, I would go SC plus or LE period.
00:34:19
Speaker
I would definitely say it's tied for me.
00:34:23
Speaker
Because I love the attack from Mars topper.
00:34:26
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:26
Speaker
Yes.
00:34:26
Speaker
That's really, that is so good.
00:34:28
Speaker
But yes, all CGC toppers are tied for one.
00:34:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:33
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:34
Speaker
But let's talk about the difference between, because CGC toppers, they have, it is like a diorama.
00:34:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:42
Speaker
And they, they put into it to make it look really impressive.
00:34:48
Speaker
And I can't even remember what the, the medieval madness topper was.
00:34:52
Speaker
Cause I, I got all those kits and I basically made mine the Royal edition.
00:34:56
Speaker
Um, the only thing is I don't have a powder coated yet.
00:34:59
Speaker
Um,
00:35:01
Speaker
But it's a 3D sculpt and it looks really good.
00:35:06
Speaker
This has always been my slight complaint on toppers is that when it looks like it's basically layered plastics that could be on some sort of sales display at Walmart.
00:35:23
Speaker
Like, you know, you have those end caps, right?
00:35:26
Speaker
And you go and you're like, oh, Godzilla DVDs are for sale.
00:35:30
Speaker
Oh, yeah, there's an advertisement on top with basically a 3D cut out plastic that advertises Godzilla.
00:35:38
Speaker
Okay, that's what it looks like.
00:35:39
Speaker
That's not what the Chicago Game Company toppers look like.
00:35:43
Speaker
And so they look amazing.
00:35:44
Speaker
They're so professional.
00:35:46
Speaker
And I mean, all mine are in the basement and I have two very young kids that are down here.
00:35:50
Speaker
And in my mind, one thrown ball in the wrong direction, there's a good chance some of my stern toppers would crack or break.
00:35:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:58
Speaker
I'm pretty sure this Chicago, I'm pretty sure I could take the topper off and drop it and it wouldn't break.
00:36:03
Speaker
It is so well built.
00:36:04
Speaker
And I don't want it.
00:36:06
Speaker
It's just one more area.
00:36:08
Speaker
I know I just sound like a fanboy and a huge shill, but it's one more area that I was just not prepared for how how good that game is.
00:36:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:15
Speaker
I want to move on to 2.0 kits are becoming just standard.
00:36:20
Speaker
They're releasing more and more.
00:36:22
Speaker
I know last year at TPF, they talked about
00:36:25
Speaker
uh, Mirco is doing a totan, a tales of the Arabian nights.
00:36:30
Speaker
It's officially licensed from planetary pinball, but one that was sent to us last month from Cardona pinball is no good gophers 2.0.
00:36:39
Speaker
And it is officially licensed.
00:36:41
Speaker
I'm kind of surprised no one's talking about this.
00:36:44
Speaker
Um, I, I'm, I want to get my first impression since you guys on this last one, go ahead.
2.0 Kits and Modernizing Pinball Games
00:36:51
Speaker
Um,
00:36:53
Speaker
I have a love-hate relationship with this thing.
00:36:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:36:57
Speaker
I just looking at it, I don't mind the chipmunk.
00:37:00
Speaker
If you guys haven't looked at this, go to CardonaPinball.com.
00:37:04
Speaker
C-A-R-D-O-N-A Pinball.com.
00:37:08
Speaker
And the two animals that they picked for the gophers, one you could kind of write off as a gopher.
00:37:14
Speaker
It looks more like chipmunk from Chippendale Rescue Rangers, right?
00:37:18
Speaker
And then the other one is like a naked mole rat mixed with a pit bull.
00:37:23
Speaker
That's the best way I can explain it.
00:37:25
Speaker
I don't know what they were going for here.
00:37:28
Speaker
Maybe a hairless woodchuck.
00:37:30
Speaker
I don't know.
00:37:32
Speaker
It kind of throws me off so much that it's kind of off-putting.
00:37:36
Speaker
But watching the gameplay and stuff, gameplay looks fun.
00:37:40
Speaker
It's kind of hard to tell exactly what everything is doing.
00:37:44
Speaker
But this seems to be the route.
00:37:46
Speaker
And it makes me wonder, you know, Eclectic Gamers podcast had talked about on their last episode –
00:37:53
Speaker
of rumor corner cgc potentially losing the licensing from planetary pinball and that's why they're moving on to uh just doing their own thing that's you know the rumor has been pulp fiction and if that's the case this cardona pinball kind of shows why you want someone as quality as cgc doing your games we've talked about how amazing these toppers are how quality the games are the build is amazing
00:38:20
Speaker
I think if you start giving out licenses to whoever wants them, not saying this is a terrible product, but it doesn't match up to what a CGC product is.
00:38:33
Speaker
And so I do want to play this just because it's pinball.
00:38:37
Speaker
I'm really intrigued to see what people are coming out with the 2.0 kits because some of them are really standing up and looking great, and some of them are falling a little bit short, but it's still a new way to bring your old game into a modern era.
00:38:48
Speaker
I don't know.
00:38:49
Speaker
What's your guys' thoughts?
00:38:51
Speaker
I have two questions.
00:38:53
Speaker
Okay.
00:38:53
Speaker
How many no good gophers are on the market right now?
00:39:00
Speaker
Is this, is this up or is this like a, no, is this gear for people who are, who already have it, have the game?
00:39:07
Speaker
Because part of me says, if you already have the game, then you still like the game typically.
00:39:14
Speaker
And are you going to go out and buy a classic Valley Williams for, and I would say that, and no good gophers is probably a B title.
00:39:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:24
Speaker
It's not an a title.
00:39:25
Speaker
It's not Adam's family or a, or twilight zone or something like that, but it's, it's a solid player game that is limited by that.
00:39:35
Speaker
Now, I would even say it's a C title.
00:39:38
Speaker
I just, I don't, I don't see people clamoring for a no good gophers.
00:39:42
Speaker
I just don't.
00:39:43
Speaker
So that's the challenge is that, okay, well, then you have that.
00:39:49
Speaker
Also, we talked about this before.
00:39:52
Speaker
If you want it to look, so no good gophers, the estimated value is 5,200.
00:39:58
Speaker
I just looked it up.
00:39:58
Speaker
Okay.
00:40:00
Speaker
And so you buy that and then you buy another one that's this thing that's 2,000 bucks.
00:40:06
Speaker
And I would say that the back glass looks like that chipmunk a little bit.
00:40:12
Speaker
Um, but getting back to what we talked about with toppers, this doesn't look like it would be obviously produced by the people who made the game in the first place.
00:40:23
Speaker
Yes.
00:40:24
Speaker
Whereas fun house 2.0.
00:40:26
Speaker
That's what I was about to say.
00:40:27
Speaker
Fun house 2.0 looks like it could slide right in there and do that.
00:40:33
Speaker
So is that now is, is that a drawback?
00:40:37
Speaker
No, but your, your market is very limited.
00:40:40
Speaker
Because you're doing a reboot of a 30-year-old game.
00:40:45
Speaker
And what's your return on investment?
00:40:46
Speaker
How many of these do you have to sell to break even?
00:40:50
Speaker
Because it costs a lot of money to do that, to do animations.
00:40:53
Speaker
I would assume anybody that's doing these, it is a passion project.
00:40:57
Speaker
Because, sure, if they were smart, they would, and I'm not saying they're dumb, but if they were doing the market research, you would think they would be doing kits on games that there's a ton of them out there and they're super well liked.
00:41:08
Speaker
So No Good Gophers is an interesting choice.
00:41:12
Speaker
So I'm assuming it is some sort of passion project.
00:41:14
Speaker
I mean, I know like Scott Tenisi, he had an Earthshaker and did like his own version of Earthshaker Code.
00:41:19
Speaker
If that was today, sure, he could have teamed up with somebody and sold that, you know, the modifications that he made as a package if he wanted to.
00:41:27
Speaker
My view on the 2.0 code, though, is I kind of feel like that's what you're going to get with Cactus Canyon, you know, like with the lineman code, that will be a 2.0 version of a code set.
00:41:39
Speaker
But I also feel if you own some of these older games and you love those older games, like they are stuck in your collection, it would be hard pressed for me to
00:41:48
Speaker
If I love no gold, no good gophers, it would be hard pressed for me to almost not want to buy that kit because it's already a game I love.
00:41:55
Speaker
So if you're telling me I can add more to it, if I, you know, it's, it's holding up a spot in my, on my lane.
00:42:01
Speaker
If I, if I can go deeper with that, with that code set, part of me would really want to.
00:42:05
Speaker
And there's, there's a few games like taxi.
00:42:07
Speaker
I love the game taxi, but it's hard for me to justify having one in my lineup.
00:42:11
Speaker
But if I knew there was a taxi 2.0 version,
00:42:14
Speaker
Where it's like, crap, you're telling me I can bring in modern light shows, potentially modern sound, or if they swap it out with some sort of DMD.
00:42:22
Speaker
If you can make that game more modern, but still be the original game as well.
00:42:28
Speaker
I don't know.
00:42:29
Speaker
I see the appeal there.
00:42:31
Speaker
I'm surprised Tales of the Arabian Night.
00:42:33
Speaker
That makes sense why they did that.
00:42:36
Speaker
Funhaus makes sense.
00:42:38
Speaker
No Good Gophers is kind of surprised, but it's not enough for me to want to go buy that game.
00:42:41
Speaker
If I don't like the main game itself...
00:42:44
Speaker
I'm not expecting the 2.0 game to like, I don't know, just blow it out of the water.
00:42:49
Speaker
To revitalize it?
00:42:51
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:42:51
Speaker
Well, and what's interesting to me is these other 2.0 kits.
00:42:55
Speaker
So Funhouse, there was over 10,000 of those games produced.
00:42:59
Speaker
Bride of Pinball, over 8,000.
00:43:00
Speaker
Totan's a relatively low number at 3,500 or like 3,200.
00:43:07
Speaker
And it's really weird to me you pick No Good Gophers that had 1,700 games.
00:43:12
Speaker
I'm just a passion project.
00:43:14
Speaker
That's the only thing I can think of.
00:43:17
Speaker
But if that's the case, I don't know.
00:43:19
Speaker
It's weird to me to officially license it when it's a passion project.
00:43:24
Speaker
And maybe it's a starting point.
00:43:26
Speaker
Who else is doing it, though?
00:43:29
Speaker
I guess no one else is.
00:43:30
Speaker
Is this a calling card?
00:43:32
Speaker
If you're paying the licensing fee and they're like, well...
00:43:35
Speaker
you can give it a shot.
00:43:37
Speaker
Pay me my, pay me my royalties.
00:43:38
Speaker
No one else is asking for this.
00:43:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:41
Speaker
It may be different if it were like an, you know, okay.
00:43:44
Speaker
An MMR two point or a medieval madness two point or, or something along those lines where that.
00:43:52
Speaker
They must think it's good enough.
00:43:54
Speaker
Right.
00:43:54
Speaker
More than one person, you know, anybody can make their own passion project.
00:43:57
Speaker
Right.
00:43:58
Speaker
And they don't have to license it.
00:43:58
Speaker
They just make, they do whatever they want.
00:44:00
Speaker
But if they think it's good enough that they're like, Hey, if we can sell,
00:44:03
Speaker
five, 10, 50 of these kits or more.
00:44:06
Speaker
Well, let's do it the right way.
00:44:07
Speaker
Let's not get in trouble doing it.
00:44:08
Speaker
Let's license it and see what the demand is.
00:44:12
Speaker
And this is a good test case to see what you can do with old games.
00:44:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:15
Speaker
Or that's something where they could get, maybe it's a resume builder.
00:44:18
Speaker
Like I did this and then they're going to reach out to, I know JJP has like a coder position open right now.
00:44:23
Speaker
So if they can take that as a resume builder to go to an actual manufacturer, like, Hey, I did this.
00:44:28
Speaker
Like,
00:44:29
Speaker
I don't know.
00:44:30
Speaker
I have no idea.
00:44:30
Speaker
But good on them.
00:44:32
Speaker
If they're doing it the right way, they're getting it licensed.
00:44:35
Speaker
I hope they sell as many as they feel comfortable making and hope people love it.
00:44:39
Speaker
I agree.
00:44:40
Speaker
Well, and it's funny, too, because the whirlwind 2.0, the guy that was making that and was going to license it, and then he got shot down because it sounds like there's already one in the making.
00:44:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:52
Speaker
I don't know.
00:44:53
Speaker
I guess if you're looking to make a 2.0 kit, it's not super hard because we have the P3 system.
00:44:59
Speaker
You can code it yourself, polish it up, make it look good, hire an artist.
00:45:04
Speaker
This might be a great way to make some side money in the pinball hobby.
00:45:08
Speaker
And in my opinion, it doesn't look like...
00:45:14
Speaker
planetary pinball is very picky on who they're, they're choosing.
00:45:18
Speaker
And that's not a shot at, well, I'll, I'll push back on that.
00:45:23
Speaker
We don't have enough information to,
00:45:26
Speaker
to judge this and we only have the video to judge it on.
00:45:29
Speaker
Sure.
00:45:29
Speaker
We haven't played it.
00:45:30
Speaker
It's like we were talking about before with cactus Canyon.
00:45:33
Speaker
Like you want the game to feel cohesive.
00:45:36
Speaker
And I don't feel like the characters that they've produced for no good gophers 2.0 is cohesive with the original art and intention of the original game.
00:45:47
Speaker
Simple as that.
00:45:48
Speaker
You don't want to add anything.
00:45:50
Speaker
So like, I know you're probably sick of me saying it, but like Caxias Canyon, if the lineman, the rumored thing is potentially adding doors, like barn doors or saloon doors in front of Bart.
00:45:59
Speaker
So my thought is like, I don't want them to change anything about the current code right now.
00:46:03
Speaker
Like I want there to be the still the way to play the original code set.
00:46:07
Speaker
So I'm curious if there's a physical thing added to the game, are those saloon doors just always going to be open?
00:46:12
Speaker
You know, like I don't want them...
00:46:13
Speaker
I don't want now that to be something that's added to the original code.
00:46:16
Speaker
Maybe it will.
00:46:17
Speaker
I don't know.
00:46:18
Speaker
But that's my thing with some of these 2.0 kits.
00:46:21
Speaker
If I have to add something physical to the game, I want it to still feel cohesive enough that I could play the original game, which I love.
00:46:28
Speaker
And that's why I own it, right?
00:46:30
Speaker
Whether it's whatever game it is.
00:46:31
Speaker
But I don't want you to add something that now, you know, if it's a screen and it's just black when you play the original game, then all of a sudden you feel like, well, I don't want to stare at a black screen.
00:46:40
Speaker
I'm going to always play the 2.0 version.
00:46:43
Speaker
I don't want to lose the original version, you know?
00:46:45
Speaker
So you want, you want whatever you're adding to feel cohesive, but then also be able to flip a switch or whatever and go to the 2.0 and then feel something new.
00:46:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:55
Speaker
It's probably hard to do.
00:46:56
Speaker
I don't really know.
00:46:58
Speaker
Once you add a DMD or something and add some sort of video assets, it's going to be hard to do.
00:47:03
Speaker
But if that's something that I do like about the CGC games, though, of just changing the lights, going from a regular light to an RGB light and just adding that light show, you know, it feels modern, but you're not changing the core of the game.
00:47:16
Speaker
You're also playing that retro card where they updated the dots, so it still is a DMD game, but it's kind of a modern retro feel on it.
00:47:29
Speaker
Yes, and just a random side note on that, my view, these XL displays are so well done that anytime people talk about why don't they do a Tron rerun or a Lord of the Rings rerun, to be honest, I do not want, if they redid Lord of the Rings, I would not want them to bring in movie assets.
00:47:46
Speaker
I would want them to do something like that.
00:47:48
Speaker
Give me an XL display.
00:47:50
Speaker
Give me a bigger colored version of a DMD.
00:47:54
Speaker
Keep your animations, just polish them a little more.
00:47:57
Speaker
And then we don't have to deal with the licensing of character rights or all that.
00:48:01
Speaker
Same with Tron.
00:48:02
Speaker
Could you imagine a Tron remake with that XL display and like high quality dots?
00:48:07
Speaker
Like it would be insane.
00:48:08
Speaker
It would be so great.
00:48:09
Speaker
Or Walking Dead.
00:48:10
Speaker
Do a Walking Dead, but do comic book art style with that type of huge display in it.
00:48:16
Speaker
I mean, sign me up.
00:48:19
Speaker
That would be so great.
00:48:21
Speaker
But I don't, I don't, that's, seeing a game like that, that to me, it's like, I don't, if Stern or somebody else was going to remake some of their older games, you don't have to bring in the LCD screen, but you could make the DMD that much better.
00:48:34
Speaker
Yes.
00:48:35
Speaker
You can modernize the DMD by still keeping it period consistent.
00:48:41
Speaker
Yeah, it's a dot matrix display still, but make those dots colored and give me more of them and bigger.
00:48:48
Speaker
And light the speakers up while you're at it because that's awesome too.
00:48:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:53
Speaker
So speaking of extra large displays, Joel, you sent this to us.
00:48:58
Speaker
We have a chat going on with us and Travis and Tom.
00:49:02
Speaker
And it was an extra large display for the Sturm games.
00:49:07
Speaker
I saw this and I thought, this is a really cool concept.
00:49:11
Speaker
But the first hang up is, it changes the shape of your speakers.
00:49:14
Speaker
Like, I don't know if this comes with speakers.
00:49:16
Speaker
I should have developed a little bit.
00:49:17
Speaker
It does.
00:49:18
Speaker
It does.
00:49:19
Speaker
So, like with me, I'm getting ready to put a pin woofer kit in my Godzilla.
00:49:23
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:49:24
Speaker
And I wouldn't want to subtract the pinwoofer kit to add the extra large display.
00:49:30
Speaker
Yes.
00:49:31
Speaker
So this is very interesting because I've had this mentality.
00:49:36
Speaker
If I have a small collection and I have four of them, and I know this game is quote unquote bolted, I don't have problems making it the best version of that game I can.
00:49:45
Speaker
That's why I like powder coating or adding a topper or anything.
00:49:48
Speaker
I don't mind investing more in the game.
00:49:50
Speaker
So I'm a huge fan of speaker light kits.
00:49:53
Speaker
And so when I saw that initial thing, it's like, well, shoot, if I want to make my Godzilla premium as good as I possibly can, sure, a bigger screen, why would I not do that?
00:50:00
Speaker
Well, for me to add three inches to the screen, I would have just lost my burning city speaker light kits.
00:50:09
Speaker
That's a compromise I'm not willing to take.
00:50:12
Speaker
But I'd be curious, if these XL screens catch on,
00:50:15
Speaker
it would be interesting to see if like Doug at speaker light kits now makes a kit specifically for this, or if the pinwoofer team, um, amazing people over there, if all of a sudden they make a kit, it's, it's, it's whether or not other mod makers will adapt if this screen, but it's 650 bucks.
00:50:30
Speaker
It's made by a company over in Spain, I think, um, Madrid, it's an all complete package.
00:50:36
Speaker
Like it looks like you basically unbolt,
00:50:38
Speaker
your current lcd panel that has the speakers in it you unplug
Pinball Market Trends and Game Comparisons
00:50:42
Speaker
a few things you unbolt that you bolt in this new thing plug it back in boom now your screen is three inches bigger and your speakers instead of being a four inch speaker they are nicer than the stock speakers but it's more of like an oval shape instead so i i bet it's great i if they if they're smart and they have a few at tpf there will be people that will buy one for every one of their stern games
00:51:05
Speaker
Um, but if you're a speaker light guy, speaker light kit guy, uh, it's going to be, you're going to lose those unless somebody decides to adapt and make their own kits for it.
00:51:15
Speaker
Yep.
00:51:16
Speaker
All right.
00:51:17
Speaker
So we're kind of running down to the wire.
00:51:20
Speaker
I wanted to take a small jab at Zach many for a second, because he was talking about,
00:51:27
Speaker
pinball market trends being the best segment out of any pinball podcast.
00:51:31
Speaker
You're saying that wrong.
00:51:33
Speaker
Pinball market trends.
00:51:39
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:51:40
Speaker
Yes.
00:51:41
Speaker
Flawless.
00:51:42
Speaker
And...
00:51:44
Speaker
I'm going to remind him that we have our own called Segment Still, and he totally passed up Triple Drain or Triple Combo, right?
00:51:50
Speaker
I know, right?
00:51:51
Speaker
Right.
00:51:51
Speaker
And so in honor of that, I'm going to do a Segment Still tonight.
00:51:55
Speaker
And I put on here Market Trends, but I'm shifting gears because since we have a guest on, I'm going to put Scott and Joel Engelberth head-to-head.
00:52:03
Speaker
Oh, I was not prepared.
00:52:05
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:52:05
Speaker
Yes, this is not.
00:52:06
Speaker
No.
00:52:07
Speaker
I wasn't prepared for any of this.
00:52:08
Speaker
Wait a second.
00:52:09
Speaker
I'm going to put on my Loser Kid hat.
00:52:11
Speaker
Okay.
00:52:11
Speaker
Okay.
00:52:12
Speaker
And in honor of saying head-to-head, we're going to bring back the top 100.
00:52:19
Speaker
If you're not familiar with this game, we're going to take a random number generator of 1 through 100...
00:52:26
Speaker
Scott's going to get a number.
00:52:27
Speaker
Joel's going to get a number.
00:52:29
Speaker
And that is their game that they have to.
00:52:31
Speaker
You have to argue it.
00:52:32
Speaker
You argue it.
00:52:33
Speaker
Okay.
00:52:33
Speaker
Okay.
00:52:34
Speaker
One to 100 is huge.
00:52:37
Speaker
Like something good.
00:52:39
Speaker
Okay.
00:52:40
Speaker
Okay.
00:52:40
Speaker
All right.
00:52:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:52:41
Speaker
Let's do it.
00:52:41
Speaker
Let's do it.
00:52:42
Speaker
All right.
00:52:42
Speaker
We're doing this.
00:52:43
Speaker
Right.
00:52:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:44
Speaker
Pinside top 100.
00:52:45
Speaker
I've got the random number generator up right now.
00:52:48
Speaker
Do you guys want to rock, paper, scissors who gets the first number?
00:52:51
Speaker
Or do you know, I'm going to let, I'm going to let Joel because he's the guest.
00:52:55
Speaker
That is incredibly kind.
00:52:56
Speaker
Okay, ready?
00:52:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:58
Speaker
Rolling 82.
00:52:59
Speaker
82.
00:53:01
Speaker
I'm going to have to scroll over for that one.
00:53:05
Speaker
Pinbot.
00:53:06
Speaker
Pinbot.
00:53:09
Speaker
Okay.
00:53:10
Speaker
Is that Joel's or is that Scott's?
00:53:12
Speaker
That's Joel's because he was first.
00:53:15
Speaker
Okay.
00:53:16
Speaker
All right.
00:53:16
Speaker
I'm rolling again.
00:53:19
Speaker
48.
00:53:20
Speaker
What did he get?
00:53:21
Speaker
Oh.
00:53:22
Speaker
Star Wars.
00:53:25
Speaker
Oh.
00:53:26
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:53:27
Speaker
This one actually pretty good.
00:53:28
Speaker
Okay, this is Star Wars versus Pinball.
00:53:30
Speaker
Let me remind everyone the rules.
00:53:32
Speaker
We're going to do 30 seconds apiece.
00:53:34
Speaker
The first round, you are solely talking about your game.
00:53:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:53:38
Speaker
You are welcome to use the flyer if you like.
00:53:41
Speaker
You're welcome to personal experience.
00:53:42
Speaker
Whatever you want to do.
00:53:44
Speaker
And then the second round, you can either talk your game up more, you can tear down the other person's game, or you can defend.
00:53:52
Speaker
So if they make a statement.
00:53:55
Speaker
Or no, it's attack or build it up, and then I think there's one final round, and you can either defend your statement, essentially.
00:54:03
Speaker
It's your rebuttal, yeah.
00:54:04
Speaker
Yeah, your rebuttal.
00:54:05
Speaker
So...
00:54:06
Speaker
Ray for this magic.
00:54:08
Speaker
Let's do it.
00:54:09
Speaker
So Joel, you'll go first.
00:54:10
Speaker
You are talking about Pimbot.
00:54:13
Speaker
Your 30 seconds starts now.
00:54:15
Speaker
All right.
00:54:16
Speaker
So first and foremost, I am incredibly surprised that Pinbot is this low on the list because this is a incredibly classic, well-known, well-loved game.
00:54:26
Speaker
It has some pretty revolutionary mechs that are unforgettable.
00:54:30
Speaker
I don't even I mean, we'll just start at the top.
00:54:32
Speaker
First, it has a topper.
00:54:33
Speaker
It has a topper.
00:54:34
Speaker
This was an early game to have a topper and it interacts with the game incredibly well.
00:54:38
Speaker
You go a little further below that, the back glass has visor that when you get to certain points in the mode, all of a sudden these eyes appear.
00:54:45
Speaker
So you know when you're playing the game.
00:54:46
Speaker
30 seconds.
00:54:47
Speaker
That was so fast.
00:54:49
Speaker
But hey, the top half of the game is incredible, apparently.
00:54:53
Speaker
It really is good.
00:54:55
Speaker
All righty, Scott.
00:54:55
Speaker
And just to remind everyone...
00:54:58
Speaker
Joel has pinball and Scott has star Wars.
00:55:02
Speaker
And this is Stern Stern star Wars.
00:55:05
Speaker
Yep.
00:55:05
Speaker
So on your mark, Scott go.
00:55:09
Speaker
Okay.
00:55:09
Speaker
If you have a dream theme that you've always wanted to be made into pinball,
00:55:13
Speaker
I have the game for you.
00:55:15
Speaker
You plunge it and immediately goes down the middle.
00:55:18
Speaker
You have a fork ramp on the left side that only works about three, four, like one third of the time.
00:55:23
Speaker
You have a supercharger that you get to see maybe twice in the game.
00:55:27
Speaker
I mean, it's stripped down.
00:55:29
Speaker
It has a TIE fighter on a string.
00:55:31
Speaker
You're talking about everything that you want in a game that is your dream theme.
00:55:36
Speaker
And you should buy, you definitely shouldn't buy the comic book version.
00:55:40
Speaker
Okay, okay, you're not.
00:55:42
Speaker
You need to buy the clip art version.
00:55:44
Speaker
Oh.
00:55:46
Speaker
Hey, way to keep it in time, man.
00:55:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:49
Speaker
Nailed it.
00:55:50
Speaker
Okay.
00:55:51
Speaker
So round two, Scott and Joel can either defend their game or they can attack the other person's game.
00:56:00
Speaker
I would like to continue to talk about, yes, I would like to continue to talk about how great my game is because I would like to get to the play field.
00:56:07
Speaker
You actually get to the play field.
00:56:08
Speaker
I'm trying your time right now.
00:56:10
Speaker
Thank you.
00:56:10
Speaker
Yes.
00:56:11
Speaker
We were talking earlier about how much people like bash toys.
00:56:13
Speaker
You bash down a visor.
00:56:14
Speaker
You have a physical ball lock.
00:56:16
Speaker
You have two of them.
00:56:16
Speaker
It's incredibly easy to know and see what you need to do.
00:56:20
Speaker
It's just, I don't know.
00:56:22
Speaker
It's super easy to understand game.
00:56:25
Speaker
Unlike Star Wars, which you have no idea what you're doing.
00:56:27
Speaker
It's a ton of flashing lights.
00:56:29
Speaker
If the ball is still in play after your plunge, you're just going to flail around and hope you hit something to see more movie clips that you want to see of that game.
00:56:36
Speaker
Not to mention you're going to be bashing the action button most of the time you're playing, trying to get more TIE fighters.
00:56:41
Speaker
But Pinbot, on the other hand, you're hoping for dirty pool.
00:56:44
Speaker
You're hoping to get a ball stuck in there.
00:56:46
Speaker
You're hoping to see the visor go off.
00:56:48
Speaker
It's a great light show.
00:56:50
Speaker
There's no confusion.
00:56:51
Speaker
30 seconds.
00:56:52
Speaker
30 seconds.
00:56:52
Speaker
I don't know.
00:56:53
Speaker
I don't know.
00:56:54
Speaker
Jury.
00:56:54
Speaker
Star Wars is a great team.
00:56:55
Speaker
I'll tell you that.
00:56:56
Speaker
I need you to stricken the last 25 seconds.
00:56:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:59
Speaker
Do not.
00:57:00
Speaker
Do not factor that in.
00:57:01
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:57:02
Speaker
Oh, I was way over again?
00:57:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:05
Speaker
Oh, I thought you said three seconds.
00:57:06
Speaker
I thought you were like, oh, I thought you were like telling me to like, like counting me down.
00:57:12
Speaker
Oh, I'm very sorry.
00:57:13
Speaker
So take away everything negative I said about Star Wars.
00:57:15
Speaker
Completely forget that and focus on how great pins.
00:57:18
Speaker
You can do about 10 seconds.
00:57:20
Speaker
You actually did really well in keeping.
00:57:22
Speaker
You got some negative in there about Star Wars.
00:57:25
Speaker
All right.
00:57:26
Speaker
You ready, Scott?
00:57:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:27
Speaker
Go.
00:57:28
Speaker
Okay.
00:57:29
Speaker
Pin bot.
00:57:30
Speaker
If you want a game that you shoot straight up the middle and get a drain straight down the center, I've got the game for you.
00:57:37
Speaker
Not only does I have five targets that you are shooting for that are guaranteed to drain straight down the middle, but you also have some random ramp on the left side and maybe some drop targets.
00:57:48
Speaker
So I, this is a game that only screams.
00:57:51
Speaker
You want to put up one quarter in me because otherwise you will walk away and then try to find flash.
00:57:57
Speaker
Okay, 30 seconds.
00:58:00
Speaker
Okay.
00:58:00
Speaker
In hindsight, this might have been a bad idea to give Scott Star Wars.
00:58:04
Speaker
Well, a random number is a random number, man.
00:58:06
Speaker
It's random.
00:58:07
Speaker
Yeah, that's true.
00:58:08
Speaker
It's true.
00:58:09
Speaker
All right.
00:58:09
Speaker
You had to calculate it about five times to get Star Wars 2 for me.
00:58:13
Speaker
See, when you say and 30 seconds, I think 30 seconds to go.
00:58:16
Speaker
Oh, no, no.
00:58:17
Speaker
And time.
00:58:18
Speaker
No, I should say and time.
00:58:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:58:20
Speaker
So this is your final round.
00:58:22
Speaker
You're welcome to defend your game in rebuttal, or if you want to take one final bow, you can.
00:58:28
Speaker
You ready?
00:58:29
Speaker
Joel, go.
00:58:31
Speaker
Sure.
00:58:31
Speaker
I mean, I think Scott described his game incredibly well.
00:58:33
Speaker
I really don't have anything else to say about his game.
00:58:36
Speaker
But what I will say is Pinbot is well loved.
00:58:38
Speaker
It was well loved so much that they made two additional versions of the game.
00:58:43
Speaker
It's a non-licensed theme that only grew from its original game.
00:58:47
Speaker
And it's I don't know.
00:58:47
Speaker
It's a fantastic game.
00:58:48
Speaker
People love it.
00:58:49
Speaker
I don't know how much time I have, but I don't even have to say anything about Star Wars.
00:58:53
Speaker
We'll just do eight seconds of silence.
00:58:55
Speaker
Eight seconds of silence.
00:58:56
Speaker
Hey, in that eight seconds, you could plunge twice and drain on Star Wars.
00:59:04
Speaker
Oh, all right, Scott, you ready to wrap this up?
00:59:07
Speaker
Yes.
00:59:08
Speaker
Okay, go.
00:59:09
Speaker
Okay, I take offense that you're saying that you can only plunge two balls in eight seconds on Star Wars.
00:59:16
Speaker
You could plunge the whole game under eight seconds because they'll just go straight down the middle.
00:59:22
Speaker
Also, the Death Star never really works.
00:59:26
Speaker
Nothing actually happens.
00:59:27
Speaker
It's like an egg that's cracking open.
00:59:29
Speaker
You're defending your game, Scott.
00:59:29
Speaker
What's it going to drop a front egg in there?
00:59:32
Speaker
I mean, is this...
00:59:34
Speaker
Man, if there was a more disappointing implementation of my dream thing, I could not possibly present it.
00:59:42
Speaker
Oh, my goodness.
00:59:43
Speaker
So is this where we let the user vote and we wait to see who won after two weeks?
00:59:48
Speaker
So we'll talk about the results in two weeks.
00:59:51
Speaker
But now it is your turn, listener.
00:59:54
Speaker
We're going to kick this to you on Facebook.
00:59:56
Speaker
That's where we're going to do the poll.
00:59:58
Speaker
But if you will please go on our Facebook.
01:00:00
Speaker
Actually, let's do Facebook and Facebook.
01:00:03
Speaker
Instagram.
01:00:04
Speaker
We'll do both.
01:00:05
Speaker
Because I know there's not some crossover there.
01:00:08
Speaker
So let's do one on both.
01:00:10
Speaker
And you can either choose Joel's argument for Pinbot or Scott's argument for Stern Star Wars.
01:00:18
Speaker
I think Scott's argument with Star Wars was pretty accurate.
01:00:23
Speaker
I just think he was going in the wrong direction.
01:00:27
Speaker
I will say in fairness,
01:00:30
Speaker
Star Wars was a game that I was on the LE list for.
01:00:35
Speaker
And when I saw it revealed, I said pass.
01:00:40
Speaker
And I don't look back on that.
01:00:42
Speaker
So are we allowed to share our honest opinions now?
01:00:45
Speaker
Yeah, go ahead.
01:00:47
Speaker
I will say, to be honest, I've owned Pinbot and it was the fastest game I sold.
01:00:51
Speaker
I bought it in a three package deal and I had it for less than two weeks.
01:00:55
Speaker
And it wasn't that I wasn't bad.
01:00:57
Speaker
It was like, this is a fun game, but there's so much nostalgia towards that game that I don't have.
01:01:02
Speaker
Right.
01:01:02
Speaker
That I was like, this game, it's fun.
01:01:05
Speaker
I see why people like it, but I don't have any attachment to it.
01:01:08
Speaker
So I'll sell it to somebody who does.
01:01:10
Speaker
And it sold within a day.
01:01:11
Speaker
There was a mom and her son that came and they were so excited to get that game.
01:01:16
Speaker
Um, so I get it.
01:01:17
Speaker
I get, well, it's well, well, why it's well liked.
01:01:19
Speaker
I just don't, it was fastest game out of my collection while star Wars.
01:01:23
Speaker
I've never cared for it.
01:01:24
Speaker
Cause it's always kicked my butt on location, but we did stream it the night before the pinball awards and actually having somebody explain the rules to me.
01:01:31
Speaker
I get that.
01:01:32
Speaker
Like the rules are actually incredibly well done.
01:01:34
Speaker
I think Dwight did a good job with the rules, but it's just, it's not, it's not something you're just going to walk up and just immediately understand what to do.
01:01:41
Speaker
I will say that in fairness, my friend Garrett Ledger, who's out here, he says Star Wars is one of his favorite games.
01:01:50
Speaker
So I need to go and spend more time on Star Wars.
01:01:54
Speaker
It could be that just the one that I was playing on was so wickedly hard set up that I just I didn't feel like it was fun at all.
01:02:02
Speaker
Now, Garrett also said he didn't like Godzilla.
01:02:05
Speaker
So take that take that into account.
01:02:06
Speaker
But yeah.
01:02:07
Speaker
If you can't keep the ball alive long enough to experience any of the code or rules, then it's not a fun game.
01:02:13
Speaker
It doesn't matter how good the game is.
01:02:15
Speaker
Okay.
01:02:15
Speaker
Here's the problem with Star Wars.
01:02:16
Speaker
Here's, I have it pinpointed to a T. I think everyone else has said this.
01:02:21
Speaker
The problem is everyone steps up to a game and they usually full plunge on a game.
01:02:25
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
01:02:26
Speaker
And if you full plunge on Star Wars, it shoots you right into those stand-up targets and you're dead.
01:02:32
Speaker
And so your first natural instinct, it just automatically kills your first ball.
01:02:37
Speaker
And if you're not paying attention, you're like, well, I'll just do that again.
01:02:40
Speaker
The next thing you know, your game is over before you even really started.
01:02:44
Speaker
And so you have to get used to soft plunging on that game.
01:02:48
Speaker
to even really experience that game i think that's the problem is people just kind of bull moose in and and they can't experience the game and it's hard to get it under control once you get under control it's somewhat enjoyable but i think that's the hardest part when when you can't even really start the game you don't want to play the game okay this is also the same thing with um oh oktoberfest okay
01:03:13
Speaker
So you have this really cool wire form that is so amazingly hard to actually get going in the game.
01:03:22
Speaker
Okay.
01:03:24
Speaker
And it's the same thing with the supercharger.
01:03:26
Speaker
Yes, it, it happens or not the supercharger is the hyper loop, the hyper loop or whatever.
01:03:31
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:32
Speaker
But it's, it's not easy to actually get things going in that.
01:03:36
Speaker
And so,
01:03:37
Speaker
the one, like the cool visual thing that you have, it doesn't draw you back because it's so hard to start.
01:03:44
Speaker
Like, you know, with medieval madness, you can destroy the castle in three shots.
01:03:51
Speaker
It's really the first entrance.
01:03:53
Speaker
And so people are like, oh, that's cool.
01:03:55
Speaker
And yeah, then it gets harder in the game, but there should be a little bit more of a do the cool thing in star Wars.
01:04:04
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:04
Speaker
Then,
01:04:05
Speaker
I have to give credit to Ryan McQuaid, who's now hired at American Pinball, because one of his intro interviews, he made the comment of one of my theories is I never want to hide mechanical fun behind code.
01:04:19
Speaker
And that's something that it's like, yeah, that hyperloop, you got to do a lot of things and then hit some hard shots to experience the cool, huge mech that's across the whole play field.
01:04:29
Speaker
So, yeah, if a novice gets up there and goes, how do I do this?
01:04:32
Speaker
Good luck.
01:04:32
Speaker
It's probably not going to happen.
01:04:34
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:34
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:35
Speaker
No, I agree.
01:04:35
Speaker
This is going to be an interesting one, honestly, from the community because Pinball, like you said, Joel, Pinball is so iconic, but the original version was very limited to its time.
01:04:48
Speaker
I think that's why Jackpot is loved.
01:04:50
Speaker
And then you have Bride of Pinball.
01:04:53
Speaker
Actually, I prefer Bride of Pinball.
01:04:55
Speaker
it's it's a more fun game i like jackpot i think that the especially with some of the if you're able to lock both balls and and then shoot into like is it the um the jackpot the sorry the like the casino shot you get like a super jackpot jackpot i mean there's some really cool rules to it i think it was a great upgrade from the original and so it has a little more last ability in the collection sure so
01:05:22
Speaker
Okay.
01:05:23
Speaker
I don't know.
01:05:24
Speaker
I still think Scott had the better argument.
01:05:25
Speaker
He just was arguing against his own game.
01:05:27
Speaker
Well, it's going to be interesting to see what they say.
01:05:32
Speaker
And we'll, we'll post those results results next episode.
01:05:35
Speaker
Um, I think that pretty much wraps it up for everything we were going to talk about.
01:05:38
Speaker
So, uh, Joel, thanks for coming on and joining us.
01:05:43
Speaker
The triple loser kid pop, uh,
01:05:46
Speaker
Whatever.
01:05:46
Speaker
This is great.
01:05:47
Speaker
And shout out to so you can catch Joel on his own show, which is triple drain pinball and streaming.
01:05:56
Speaker
Joel, how else can I get a hold of you and then tell who else is on your your podcast with you?
01:06:02
Speaker
Yeah, so Triple Drain Pinball Podcast.
01:06:05
Speaker
Travis Murri and Tom Graff have a great time with that.
01:06:07
Speaker
Lots of laughs.
01:06:08
Speaker
We do video now, so you can check that out on the Pinball Network on YouTube.
01:06:13
Speaker
We should do video, Josh.
01:06:16
Speaker
It's fun.
01:06:17
Speaker
It's a little more work, but people like it on YouTube.
01:06:20
Speaker
Or you listen to the Pinball Network.
01:06:22
Speaker
It's Triple Drain.
01:06:23
Speaker
It's on that on any podcatcher you listen to.
01:06:26
Speaker
And then I stream for Flippin' Out on the Flippin' Out YouTube channel, not on Twitch, on YouTube, every Wednesday night, 10 to midnight, Eastern Standard Time.
01:06:34
Speaker
And we rotate between actually streaming pinball and then doing a Flippin' Out with Friends, which is like a chatting stream where I grab four other people or three other people, and we just try to chat it up and talk news and go through a bunch of stuff.
01:06:46
Speaker
And that's a good time.
01:06:47
Speaker
And you can see all those live videos.
01:06:49
Speaker
videos on uh on the flipping out youtube page you just have to click the live tab instead of the video tab but you'll see them there yeah you forgot to mention scott he's like on everything so you've got triple drain you've got just another pinball he's overexposed yeah flipping out stream i love joel and friends yeah flipping out with friends but yes the just another pinball podcast
01:07:12
Speaker
those are just interviews at this point.
01:07:14
Speaker
And I just love talking pinball.
01:07:16
Speaker
I love, I love knowing how things are made.
01:07:17
Speaker
So if I can interview people like designers and just try to get in their, their head space of how they did what they did.
01:07:23
Speaker
I love it.
01:07:24
Speaker
I love those conversations.
01:07:25
Speaker
And same thing with, I just, I just love talking pinball.
01:07:28
Speaker
I love, I love being with people and talking to people.
01:07:30
Speaker
So when you guys send me the, put up the bat signal at whatever, 10 o'clock at night on a Friday, Hey, you want to record a podcast?
01:07:36
Speaker
And my wife is super comfortable on a couch staring at her phone.
01:07:39
Speaker
The answer is yes.
01:07:40
Speaker
I will gladly hop on your podcast and talk pinball.
01:07:43
Speaker
And I will say the triple drain shirt is one of the coolest shirts.
01:07:47
Speaker
Thank you.
01:07:48
Speaker
Shout out to Jackson Gee.
01:07:49
Speaker
Yeah, that's the Hydra.
01:07:52
Speaker
It looks amazing.
01:07:54
Speaker
You could put that on the Godzilla alternative back glass.
01:07:57
Speaker
He was a joy to work with.
01:07:59
Speaker
Yes.
Community Engagement and Future Plans
01:08:00
Speaker
I got to ask Joel, how does it feel to be inducted into the goat club?
01:08:05
Speaker
You're sitting there watching District 82 and Keith's wearing triple drain and lose a kid on the stream.
01:08:12
Speaker
It feels good.
01:08:12
Speaker
It's good.
01:08:13
Speaker
Not only is it cool to see somebody like that wear your merch, but also to know they're a fan is very awesome.
01:08:20
Speaker
It's way awesome.
01:08:21
Speaker
So we really appreciate that.
01:08:23
Speaker
And, you know, I still gloat about Joel, but it was so cool meeting you for the first time at Pinball Olympics last year at Pinball Expo.
01:08:30
Speaker
And it just was fun, casual, great casual time, you know.
01:08:34
Speaker
And still, there's one moment that stuck out to me.
01:08:37
Speaker
You were driving us back because you were nice enough to shuttle us from Bangor Jay's house, which is an hour away from Expo.
01:08:42
Speaker
Yeah, wow.
01:08:43
Speaker
And you're like, it's like having a live podcast in my backseat right now.
01:08:47
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
01:08:48
Speaker
Yeah, I was listening to you guys on the drive to Chicago and then to be driving around Chicago and have you in the car.
01:08:53
Speaker
It was kind of surreal.
01:08:54
Speaker
But no, I know I will be at Texas Pinball Festival.
01:08:58
Speaker
So with the Triple Drain guys, I know you guys won't, which is unfortunate.
01:09:01
Speaker
But hey, Chicago Pinball Expo in October, I should be there as well.
01:09:05
Speaker
So it should be a great time.
01:09:06
Speaker
Next year, I'll be planning on doing Texas.
01:09:09
Speaker
My wife just had to go to Taylor Swift with her sisters.
01:09:12
Speaker
I get it, man.
01:09:12
Speaker
Life happens.
01:09:14
Speaker
I've got to give one more jab, though, before we leave.
01:09:16
Speaker
Travis.
01:09:17
Speaker
pinball awards you took third you took third because of your vote and to david dennis of all people yeah really i don't know i think he i think david needs it more than we do i think he just i think he just
01:09:32
Speaker
I don't know.
01:09:33
Speaker
A lot less tears for him, I think.
01:09:34
Speaker
I don't know.
01:09:35
Speaker
Travis still has the... He's in the Hall of Fame for having the double zero ball.
01:09:40
Speaker
Forever.
01:09:40
Speaker
Forever.
01:09:42
Speaker
If he's never going to forget it, we're not going to let him.
01:09:46
Speaker
I was in a tournament last week, and...
01:09:49
Speaker
that happened.
01:09:49
Speaker
The double zero happened on, I think it was Simpson's pinball party.
01:09:53
Speaker
And I was like, okay, that's not hard to happen on Simpson's pinball party.
01:09:57
Speaker
I was shocked though.
01:09:58
Speaker
I was.
01:09:58
Speaker
So yeah, it's an, it's impressive that somebody can pull a plunger four times and manage to not score a single point.
01:10:05
Speaker
But Travis found a way.
01:10:06
Speaker
He found a way to do it.
01:10:07
Speaker
Yeah.
01:10:07
Speaker
Yeah.
01:10:08
Speaker
And not only did he do it, he did it in the finals against Keith Escher.
01:10:11
Speaker
Yeah.
01:10:11
Speaker
With a lot of people watching, but that's fine.
01:10:14
Speaker
I mean, yeah, it's all pressure.
01:10:15
Speaker
I mean, you know what?
01:10:17
Speaker
Travis is that good.
01:10:18
Speaker
He just wanted to spot them.
01:10:20
Speaker
It's like, I can do this with two balls.
01:10:22
Speaker
Yeah.
01:10:22
Speaker
I don't need the first one.
01:10:23
Speaker
Yeah.
01:10:24
Speaker
We'll go with that.
01:10:25
Speaker
Why not?
01:10:25
Speaker
According to your insider connected, the first ball is always the loser ball, right?
01:10:29
Speaker
Yeah.
01:10:29
Speaker
It's the ball three.
01:10:30
Speaker
It's the house ball.
01:10:31
Speaker
Three ball.
01:10:33
Speaker
Well, if you want to get a hold of us, we are Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com.
01:10:38
Speaker
If you want to find us on the socials, we are at Loser Kid Pinball on Facebook, Twitch, Instagram, Twitter.
01:10:45
Speaker
And now on YouTube, we have a channel.
01:10:47
Speaker
Maybe we'll do something.
01:10:48
Speaker
I don't know, Scott.
01:10:49
Speaker
We'll figure it out.
01:10:50
Speaker
It'd be fun to do some video.
01:10:51
Speaker
These guys are pushing us.
01:10:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think that pretty much sums it up for us.
01:10:57
Speaker
Give us the last word, Scott.
01:11:01
Speaker
See you on Triple Drain.
01:11:50
Speaker
Shut up and sit down.