Transcript
Speaker: Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
Speaker: We are on episode 102.
Speaker: I am Josh Roop.
Speaker: With me, my co-captain, as always.
Speaker: Scott Larson.
Speaker: And Scott, it's another beautiful day in pinball.
Speaker: It's kind of all quiet on the Western Front right now.
Speaker: Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker: If you want to get on a list, because the TPF rumors are starting to fly.
Speaker: Who are you going to call for this?
Speaker: I would call Zach and Nicole at Flippin' Out Pinball.
Speaker: They have all sorts of things to scratch that itch that you've been having, either for a pinball machine or any sort of game room machine that you want for your fun cave.
Speaker: I don't want it to be exclusive to guys.
Speaker: Women can have fun in the cave, too.
Speaker: Your tea shed or your man cave, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so, you know, let's just, let's just have the fun, the fun dome.
Speaker: Let's make it a fun dome, but yeah, they certainly have things.
Speaker: And if you want to try something else, they have a golden tea and I know that they have.
Speaker: If you want to get like one of those Roth Reels games that has the home version, or if you want to buy a commercial one, I guess, reach out to Zach and Nicole.
Speaker: They've always been easy to work with.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: You know, it's like I said, it's kind of quiet right now.
Speaker: So it's me and you, we decided to do a little catching up and there's actually been some media releases that we've received that we haven't been able to talk to talk about on the show.
Speaker: And so I figured you and I would go over these because we've actually had quite a few emails and stuff too.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But first let's go over what life changes.
Speaker: I'd say in the last two weeks, but it's been, I don't know, it's been a month or two now.
Speaker: I feel like.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, well, because we had Keith on and then we had our 100 episode.
Speaker: And it's just been kind of busy.
Speaker: We are...
Speaker: We have finished our renovation on the main level, at least the main stuff.
Speaker: We are slowly matriculating back up.
Speaker: I thought that I had lost the hardware to my bed, but thankfully we figured out where I put it because you put it somewhere where you think this is obvious and then you totally forget about it.
Speaker: And just starting to expand back into our space.
Speaker: I've been playing.
Speaker: I've actually really gotten back into Jurassic Park a lot lately.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: So I've been playing a lot of Jurassic Park.
Speaker: But, yeah, that's pretty much my update.
Speaker: I got back from Guatemala a couple weeks ago and was able to go down there and do some cleft, lips, and palate surgery.
Speaker: So that's always a great experience.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And, you know, just getting through winter, I guess.
Speaker: I'm kind of in the same boat.
Speaker: We just finished up the bathroom that was quite the project, but now we have a bathroom downstairs.
Speaker: So I can feel comfortable doing pinball tournaments now.
Speaker: I've threatened it for years, and maybe I'll actually start doing it.
Speaker: But we have a bathroom down by the pinball machine, so people wouldn't be running up through the house.
Speaker: And my wife and I went to Puerto Rico for our 15 years.
Speaker: That was a blast.
Speaker: I'd highly recommend to anyone.
Speaker: If you're from the United States, you don't need a passport to go.
Speaker: It was reasonably priced for everything.
Speaker: And I don't know.
Speaker: It was great.
Speaker: Like you said, it's been cold.
Speaker: I know it's not been.
Speaker: Utah's been really cold.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We've been in negative temperatures, at least where I'm at, for the last two weeks.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We're lucky to see above single digits.
Speaker: And two days ago, the wind was blowing so hard they had to shut down the roads out of my town.
Speaker: heading towards Colorado because they just, it was insane.
Speaker: Things just blow over.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So it was nice to get out of the cold.
Speaker: Um, my collection stayed the same.
Speaker: I S I've still got the same pinball machines, but I'm, I'm jonesing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm jonesing to, uh, change up the lineup just, just a hair.
Speaker: So it'll be interesting to see what happens.
Speaker: Uh, what, what reactions did we get from L1 being on speaking of, uh, rumors?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I don't know why you tell me.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: People are excited.
Speaker: They're excited to hear four flippers.
Speaker: They're really curious about this whole two or normal flippers, two or some different type of flippers.
Speaker: It's funny.
Speaker: You joked about a banana flipper, banana flippers.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And no one, no one took us seriously.
Speaker: They were like, yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Where was I?
Speaker: Oh, you know what?
Speaker: I'm just going to throw this in there because it happened.
Speaker: Joel Engelberth.
Speaker: All of a sudden, just messages out of the blue.
Speaker: We're like, hey, come join us.
Speaker: And he's like, oh, sorry, I can't, guys.
Speaker: So thanks.
Speaker: Thanks for interrupting the podcast.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, it's all good.
Speaker: It's all good.
Speaker: It's fine.
Speaker: It's fine.
Speaker: If you want to hang out with your wife, then as opposed to us, that's fine.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I see how it is, Joel.
Speaker: At least Travis and Tom have a good excuse.
Speaker: They're at District 82 getting their butts handed to him by Keith Elwin.
Speaker: So I get that excuse.
Speaker: But Joel...
Speaker: sorry joel weak sauce okay back to what we were talking about so we had elwin on the episode yeah uh it was great it's always great having elwin on you know i think it's funny we get harassed though it's like that what was that their 12th time no it's our fifth it's our fifth okay it's okay it's okay it's okay it's all good it's all good no but it was a great episode uh it was it was a great episode and it's what it shows is that
Speaker: it doesn't seem like Keith is slowing down.
Speaker: No, I guess that that's part of it.
Speaker: It seemed like he, uh, when the, when he found out that they were looking for another designer, he's like, look, I, I don't have a game coming out for a while because you know, there's four designers.
Speaker: So I do the math, right?
Speaker: If you're doing two a year, that means you're releasing a game every other year.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And, uh, Keith seems to be able to design them a lot faster.
Speaker: So this totally makes sense for him to be able to jump in and say, Hey, let's, uh, let's go ahead and do this, uh, this one off this, um, uh, this bond 60.
Speaker: I did put in a request though, for him to just, uh, ask George, if they could possibly use, uh, reuse the play fields for a different theme.
Speaker: Maybe they could rename it Supreme or something.
Speaker: Yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker: I, um,
Speaker: I want to say a couple of things, and I'm going to say this very carefully.
Speaker: There is some nuggets that he dropped, but no one noticed it because they weren't paying attention.
Speaker: They heard what they wanted to hear, but they didn't hear the way that he said it.
Speaker: That is the stuff I'm going to give you.
Speaker: If you want to go back and re-listen to that episode.
Speaker: The one question we failed to ask that I wish we would have is ask him how many projects deep he is.
Speaker: Because, you know, in previous episodes, he's talked about, well, I'm three games ahead or I'm two games ahead.
Speaker: And that's even one we forgot to ask off air.
Speaker: But it's great to see that Keith is up for the challenge.
Speaker: Like he said, I'm up for the challenge.
Speaker: Give me a chance.
Speaker: And really, Keith has elevated pinball.
Speaker: And I feel like we've had this discussion off air.
Speaker: Even his failures would probably still feel like successes.
Speaker: I just don't see Keith falling hard enough for it to be a long-lasting effect.
Speaker: You see what I'm saying?
Speaker: I would say so far he hasn't had a messed up.
Speaker: And that's really impressive.
Speaker: Four for four for your first...
Speaker: you know, when you enter in the design process and your first four games are amazing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that says a lot about the talent level you're working with.
Speaker: Well, and I honestly think he's five for five with Bond 60th.
Speaker: I really think.
Speaker: Yeah, that will be great.
Speaker: I definitely want to get some time in on it.
Speaker: My friend's getting it.
Speaker: I'm not sure when it's going to come in.
Speaker: One person had brought up, I guess not one person, there was a handful of people that brought this up.
Speaker: Why didn't we ask him about Price?
Speaker: Keith was only asked to do the play field.
Speaker: And he has no control over Price.
Speaker: I don't want to harp on him about Price.
Speaker: Why did you ask?
Speaker: Why is this 20 grand?
Speaker: What's, what's he going to say?
Speaker: Like if he's against it, he's not going to say like I'm against what Stern just did.
Speaker: That that's not, that's not in his umbrella.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: So I just, he's a designer, not, not the marketer or, I mean, that would be a question for George.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: About pricing.
Speaker: But as George has said before, they're going to have pricing for different customers.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And if there is an elite customer who wants to spend a lot of money on one game, they're going to make a game for that.
Speaker: If you have an average person who just wants a fun, less expensive toy, they have the home pin line.
Speaker: There's a reason why they have, they basically have five options right now.
Speaker: They have the home pin, they have the pro premium LE, and then they're, they're super, uh, you know, the, the,
Speaker: the short run, but high dollar things.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that would be worse.
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: And that would be where Supreme was.
Speaker: And, and you could, you could argue that heavy metal was a short run, but they price that a little more.
Speaker: So there's kind of a specialty line, I guess I'll put it that way, that the pricing could be variable.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And that reminds me, sorry.
Speaker: Uh, I actually did a pinball tournament.
Speaker: just last weekend speaking of heavy metal that is a brutal game my good sir it it is fun it is fast it is definitely a tournament game if you're looking for a good tournament game i know it's the same layout as star wars and uh supreme and spider-man uh all home editions but you know what it was it was fun but it was mean it was not forgiving
Speaker: Uh, I was very proud of myself.
Speaker: Went up to Salt Lake, got to meet, uh, go to Nick for man D Manny.
Speaker: I'm sorry, dude.
Speaker: Like I'm not good at names.
Speaker: Uh, and we played his collection.
Speaker: Wonderful collection.
Speaker: Uh, Godzilla pro, uh, Simpsons pinball party, heavy metal, uh, rollercoaster tycoon, cactus Canyon, um, black hole, uh,
Speaker: Apollo 13, a joust, not the head-to-head joust, but the EM two-player.
Speaker: Not many people are aware of it.
Speaker: Great collection.
Speaker: It was a really good time, and I ended up taking third.
Speaker: It was wonderful.
Speaker: I knocked out Mark Laird.
Speaker: Mark Laird.
Speaker: I knocked out Mark Laird, which is insane to me because that man is so... He's a good player.
Speaker: He's on the next level.
Speaker: Mike Lund got knocked out before me, which Iceman has taken out Steve Bowden in Nationals.
Speaker: And then Josh Craig.
Speaker: And he was also a former state champ.
Speaker: So three state champs, and I was able to get past him.
Speaker: Logan Smith ended up taking first.
Speaker: He's one of those young kids you want to keep an eye on.
Speaker: His career is going to take off.
Speaker: He's...
Speaker: 11, 12, somewhere around there.
Speaker: He's young.
Speaker: Yeah, and his parents opened a pinball bar up in Ogden, so that's nice.
Speaker: Okay, breaking news.
Speaker: We actually have the third co-host for Loser Kid Pinball.
Speaker: I would like to welcome Travis Murie to the podcast.
Speaker: How you doing, Travis?
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: That was pretty good.
Speaker: I thought that was a decent impression.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, at least your video is working.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Well, Travis, you got to say like tur, tur, tur.
Speaker: Other words that he's – I don't know.
Speaker: Meta, the meta of the game.
Speaker: There's so many Travis Miriams.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, so we actually don't have Travis Murie and we don't have Tom because Travis and Tom are actually playing at a competition.
Speaker: But we do have Joel from the Triple Drain podcast.
Speaker: Who did not play in a competition.
Speaker: No, I actually, it's Friday night.
Speaker: I play volleyball in a co-ed league with my wife.
Speaker: We just got home from that.
Speaker: Nana left.
Speaker: The kids are asleep, all that stuff.
Speaker: And I get a random message.
Speaker: Hey, you guys want to record a podcast?
Speaker: I'm like, guys, it's Friday night.
Speaker: And so I jokingly say to my wife,
Speaker: Hey, apparently people want to record a podcast right now.
Speaker: My wife's like, to be honest, I have a glass of wine.
Speaker: I want to sit here on the couch and look at my phone for like the next 45 minutes.
Speaker: So if you want to go do that, I'm like, okay.
Speaker: So here I am.
Speaker: What is she watching?
Speaker: It's just Facebook, you know, just.
Speaker: She wants to do scroll.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Whatever.
Speaker: I get it.
Speaker: It makes her happy.
Speaker: I think, I think every wife does that.
Speaker: I, I, Oh yeah.
Speaker: No, seriously.
Speaker: It's yeah.
Speaker: No, it's all good.
Speaker: And dudes do it too.
Speaker: I mean, I see people on their phones all the time.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: But hey, why do that when I can talk with you guys and make fun of Travis?
Speaker: I'm always down.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So first off, I do want to talk about a few things with Joel because Joel, you have a Cactus Canyon on loan to you.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And you did beat the...
Speaker: original completed now now is this code the original kind of unfinished code or was this their version of the code that chicago game company did that is not the same thing as the limon sheets it is definitely not the limon code the limon code has not come out um at all this is they say they completed the original code and what i don't know i never played the original code but like i know like the original code didn't even have like a match
Speaker: animation at the end you know so they're match yeah yeah so it's very clear i mean what i will say is now that i've i've seen every aspect of the game it feels like a complete game it feels like okay there's you know it's not now some of the modes are um
Speaker: You know, there's a few modes that are one shot, like you start a mode and you you hit one shot in the modes over.
Speaker: So that to me is my guess is when the lineman code comes out, I don't I'm not expecting him to add, you know, eight new modes and eight more wizard modes like that.
Speaker: I would just assume they're going to start flushing out, you know, and giving more depth to some of these things.
Speaker: Um, so maybe instead of just one shot, maybe it's, well, if you hit these other shots, you can build a value and then, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker: We'll see.
Speaker: But either way, what I've experienced in the game, I've really enjoyed.
Speaker: You still like it?
Speaker: I do.
Speaker: I was, I, I beat it the other night and I was kind of one of those, do I care?
Speaker: Like, do I, do I want to play the game again?
Speaker: And, and, um, yeah, I've played it.
Speaker: I keep playing it and I'm still having fun.
Speaker: It's just a, there are some very fun things, very close to the start button that in my mind, haven't gotten old yet, you know?
Speaker: And, um,
Speaker: And I'm so I'm enjoying it.
Speaker: And I know I'm going to stream it again on the flipping out stream on Wednesday.
Speaker: So that'll be another two hours.
Speaker: My brother and I will play.
Speaker: So that'll be after that stream is really when I'll know whether or not I'm like still in love with the game or like, OK, I can get you.
Speaker: I can check that box.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: it's a great game and i think the problem is is it needs the lineman code to make it more of a bolt to the floor game i think the problem is is it's there's a lot of memorable lines i i don't care who you are everyone everyone quotes the lock is lit lock is lit and so yeah yeah
Speaker: It has been so... My friends and family, they just are drawn to the game, and it has so many good toys and mechs.
Speaker: It's so approachable that everybody's having a good time with it.
Speaker: And so because of that, to see people wanting to play pinball in my house is so...
Speaker: fun to see that it's like man maybe a game like this whether it's cactus can your medieval madness something along these lines makes sense in my small collection but i'll tell you if the if the lineman code code genuinely brings depth and something to like don't mess with what's currently there just give me more of it because what's currently there everybody's enjoying i just would love to go even further with it and have more pull to go deeper in the game yeah
Speaker: Well, the shots are very easy on that game.
Speaker: Well, depending on how it's set up.
Speaker: So it's not super hard to get like Stampede.
Speaker: That's if you've ever played Attack from Mars, that is the total annihilation mode.
Speaker: So Stampede is total annihilation.
Speaker: Yeah, you just do all the modes.
Speaker: Well, no, you shoot all the shots three times.
Speaker: Well, yeah, you shoot a shot three times, it starts a mode, but you still, you can't, while you're in that mode, you're not getting shots towards the other stuff.
Speaker: Like you have to finish the mode before you get more shots towards the other shots.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: So you, in essence, have to play all the modes.
Speaker: Except for the last one.
Speaker: When you shoot the last shot that you haven't missed, you don't even play that mode.
Speaker: It just goes straight into Stampede.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But it's fun.
Speaker: It's, what I've noticed is...
Speaker: There's no question.
Speaker: It's just you just hit three shots and it starts a mode.
Speaker: And that's that's something that to see like my brother or my sister in law, like they're just starting modes and they don't even realize it.
Speaker: Like that's something that is really hard compared to a modern game.
Speaker: You know, like Godzilla.
Speaker: Hey, to start a battle, you have to hit two ramps and then you have to hit the scoop.
Speaker: You have to do that in that order.
Speaker: There's no other way you're going to start a battle.
Speaker: this, you just kind of, you can mistakenly just get right into it.
Speaker: And that's pretty cool.
Speaker: You can tumble into modes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The, I will say the, this is the challenge that modern pinball has is finding that sweet spot of, you know,
Speaker: okay, how accessible is the game for a non, like a better than casual player?
Speaker: Like how, how accessible is it for below that?
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: I mean, below that.
Speaker: So you, all, all three of us, if we stand up to a game, we're going to look at the rules set.
Speaker: We'll say, okay, how do we start the modes?
Speaker: What are we doing?
Speaker: The entry-level player has no idea what's going on.
Speaker: They don't even see the flashing light.
Speaker: However, the magic of the Bally Williams is they had that thing, whatever it is, that was fun to shoot.
Speaker: So in Cactus Canyon, it's shooting up and Bart's head flies back.
Speaker: In Medieval Madness, the castle goes blowing.
Speaker: And just things like that are interesting and they're not that difficult.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: To get into.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Bash toys are just obvious.
Speaker: Like they're obvious what you're trying to do.
Speaker: And, you know, to Godzilla's credit, you have the Mechagodzilla bash toy up the ramp.
Speaker: You have the building right up the ramp.
Speaker: But I know I'll get hate from Dennis Grisel because I'm going to mention Deadpool.
Speaker: But like Deadpool, the scoop is lit from the start.
Speaker: So all a novice player has to do is fall into it.
Speaker: There's no qualifying that.
Speaker: It just falls in and then, oh, I'm in a battle.
Speaker: I can do this and this.
Speaker: So yes, but you're right.
Speaker: You don't want it to be so easy that anybody above a novice is going to be bored of the process.
Speaker: But yet if you have something like turtles, turtles, you have to hit two ramps.
Speaker: And then the turtle van and those ramps aren't exactly the easiest shots.
Speaker: You can have people step up and go through three balls and never start an episode.
Speaker: And then what's, you know, it's not fun.
Speaker: And they walk away.
Speaker: Then are they going to put another dollar in or $2 or whatever it is now?
Speaker: My friend actually may have ended up with two LEs.
Speaker: And so if that does come to fruition, I'm going to buy one of the LEs because that is a perfect game for my kids to want to play pinball.
Speaker: Yeah, but it's also like what I've found, I consider myself above a novice, but it's just if I want to just come down and immediately have fun playing pinball, like I get that with Godzilla just because the shots feel so good.
Speaker: But like I can immediately have fun with Cactus Canyon.
Speaker: There's fun there so close to the flipper that it's just like, let's just have a good time.
Speaker: I don't have to...
Speaker: focus in and commit to a long playing whatever to really, you know, like I want to get to this wizard mode and that's where the fun's at.
Speaker: It's like, no, you can just immediately have fun with it.
Speaker: But I would say the biggest thing that I've realized, because now if I'm considering a Chicago gaming game in my collection,
Speaker: the le's of every other game are so expensive like the value of these games is just continuing to go up and the topper is so well done on this game that to me if i was going to buy one right now i i would get an se plus if i could uh well because i don't i don't think i can get an le anywhere right but um
Speaker: But yeah, if you're thinking about it at all, you might as well, you might as well jump in on the LE while you can because the value is only going up.
Speaker: And it actually, I was really on the fence when my friend unboxed it.
Speaker: And so he invited us over and we came down and I opened it up and I'm like,
Speaker: Wow, they seem to elevate every release by increasing the quality, by increasing the build.
Speaker: And it is a solid game that I would feel confident in buying that would continue to work in an arcade environment, in a home environment.
Speaker: It's...
Speaker: You know, the only knock on Chicago gaming is it takes them a while to make games.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I will getting this game.
Speaker: Yeah, I had because I streamed for flipping out and I Zach is super generous in letting me borrow games.
Speaker: And I had so low hopes for this game.
Speaker: I was just like, oh, it'll be fun.
Speaker: It'll be something to do until Scooby Doo shows up or Bond 60th.
Speaker: And I have just been completely blown away by this game.
Speaker: The build quality, the the light show, the sound package, the the extended XL DMD.
Speaker: I'm I the topper like everything to have no expectations and then just be like this game is really really really good I don't know it just completely took me by surprise so I'm and and it kind of put CGC on the map for me of like I've never even considered a CGC game and now I'm impressed like I'm really impressed and I think that's why there's so few sold because a lot of people that got them they waited a long time to get them they got them and they bolted them they're just like yep this is my collection and that's that
Speaker: But I don't know.
Speaker: I feel like I've talked.
Speaker: I also do on Flippin' Out.
Speaker: I do the Flippin' Out with Friends, and I gushed all over it on that stream.
Speaker: And I've gushed all over it on Triple Drain.
Speaker: So people are probably sick of it.
Speaker: But hey, reach out to Zach.
Speaker: Order an SE+.
Speaker: Tell him Joel sent you because I love it.
Speaker: I freaking love this game.
Speaker: It will gladly give it a big thumbs up from me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, that's good.
Speaker: I love playing it too.
Speaker: And it's, it is fun to have that game.
Speaker: It's, it's like whitewater.
Speaker: Whitewater is not a, not a deep game, but it is fun for the average player.
Speaker: They can do something cool.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker: And I know Kerry Hardy hopped on my stream when I was talking about it.
Speaker: And I know he has a Cactus Canyon.
Speaker: And I asked him, I was like, Kerry Hardy, I mean, he's got an incredible collection.
Speaker: I know he's a good player.
Speaker: And he just said, he goes, Cactus Canyon is just fun.
Speaker: Like it is just fun pinball.
Speaker: And to have something like that, you can just step up and have a good time that you don't have to grind away from or work.
Speaker: I mean, it's.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I have enjoyed it.
Speaker: I've played it every day that I've had it because everybody says it's an easy game.
Speaker: Everybody says it's easy.
Speaker: So I'm like, I better beat this game before it's gone or else I'm going to, you know, if the easy game I can't beat, I got to beat it before it's gone.
Speaker: And so, yeah, I've played the heck out of it and I beat it, but I still want to play the heck out of it because I know Zach will come pick it up probably within a week or two.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, and honestly, looking at the market right now, even on Pinside, there's not a lot on...
Speaker: for sale.
Speaker: I mean, even if you ask Zach from flipping out, when I last looked at his list, he doesn't have any cactus Canyon in stock.
Speaker: It seemed like this game sat for a little bit and now you can't find them.
Speaker: And so until these SE pluses start trickling out for sale, I just think that's going to be a little harder to find these.
Speaker: I think people, they start getting on location.
Speaker: They start playing with that.
Speaker: This is actually a fun game.
Speaker: It shoots great.
Speaker: And I enjoy it.
Speaker: There's just something to be said about a casual, uh,
Speaker: game that just kind of caters to you.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's great to have an Iron Man in your collection, something that kind of beats you up in short ball times and it's fast and fun.
Speaker: But there's something to be said about Medieval Madness, Cactus Canyon, just those casual, fun games that every time you turn on, it puts a smile on your face and you just enjoy playing.
Speaker: I think if you have a four pin collection like you do, Joel, it's one of the it's an essential pin to have in the collection.
Speaker: And then you have your beat them up like your total nuclear annihilation and then Deadpool, something a little more modern, but it could be a little easier.
Speaker: So, yeah, it's it's great.
Speaker: I mean, in a perfect role, I get it.
Speaker: it's a constant battle when you have a collection of trying to curate it and make it, you know, what, what fits me, but also others.
Speaker: And some people have that mentality of like, I don't buy pins for others.
Speaker: I'm just, I'm the one that plays them 98% of the time.
Speaker: So I want to get the games that I want and that's fine, but it's, it's just, I can't express the amount of joy it's brought me over the last two, three weeks, seeing people play this game and have a good time.
Speaker: And, uh, and it's like, well, crap, they're enjoying the game that I don't own.
Speaker: Like maybe, maybe I need to change something here, you know?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, so I'm going to move on from it because we're running short on time with Joel.
Speaker: And so I want to move on to the Texas Pinball Festival.
Speaker: And some of the rumors, some of the reveals are coming up.
Speaker: First off, let's talk about
Speaker: I'm not going to lie.
Speaker: We've reached out to multiple guests this week.
Speaker: And the catchphrase I've heard from every single one of them is let's talk after Texas.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Things are coming to Texas.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And it's from multiple companies.
Speaker: I'm not allowed to say what's coming because they didn't tell me.
Speaker: But I'm not going to tell you what companies told me to wait until after Texas.
Speaker: But I can tell you... All of them.
Speaker: Every single one, yeah.
Speaker: Yes, Texas is very happening, and it's going to be very interesting to see.
Speaker: One thing that we did get told, though, that we were allowed to share is the Electric Playground Company.
Speaker: This is a new company.
Speaker: If you want to check out their website, it's just teppinball.com.
Speaker: Go check it out.
Speaker: They're getting ready to unveil something at Texas.
Speaker: If you haven't seen their original Godzilla topper,
Speaker: It's pretty amazing for two dudes out of their garage, right?
Speaker: I sent this both over to you, Joel and Scott.
Speaker: What did you think of this topper, this Godzilla topper?
Speaker: Uh, I was really, I actually, I saw somebody posted a picture of something and I, cause I'm in the Godzilla thread and I saw the topper and I reached out to the guy.
Speaker: I was like, what is that topper?
Speaker: And then he sent me contact information with another guy.
Speaker: They didn't have a website.
Speaker: It was just like background, reach out to a guy and he, and he shot me a price, told me it was a limited run that they were doing, sent me a bunch more pictures and it's, it's incredibly well done.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: layered plastics with metal brackets.
Speaker: Like it doesn't look like it looks professional and there's light.
Speaker: It's like integrated into, he sent me the install guide.
Speaker: Like you, you plug it into different switch.
Speaker: So different lights go off.
Speaker: And that's something I'm finding more and more.
Speaker: One of the reasons I really like the actual stern toppers is
Speaker: is the light integration or the integration of the topper with the game.
Speaker: Obviously, Cactus Canyon does that incredibly well, more than just something stagnant that's just sitting on top of the machine.
Speaker: So I was super impressed by it.
Speaker: The only reason I didn't pull the trigger is one, I don't know what Stern's making, so I don't know if it's going to be better or worse.
Speaker: And two, a lot of it was art pulled.
Speaker: directly from the game.
Speaker: So it was zombie Yeti art that was pulled from the cabinet.
Speaker: So it looks great, but it's just like, well, this is artwork I already have.
Speaker: So let me wait to see what Stern does.
Speaker: But I will say I was thoroughly impressed by it.
Speaker: Thoroughly impressed by what I saw.
Speaker: What do you think, Scott?
Speaker: Yeah, the integration was great.
Speaker: The light show.
Speaker: Yes, this is where you're walking that fine line of if they are going to transition or it sounds like they're planning on it into a mod company of some sort.
Speaker: You're going to have to start dealing with outside the fan art realm.
Speaker: Like if you're doing something for yourself and then, you know, the licensors don't really look too much at like a one-off project that you're doing for your own game.
Speaker: But if you're actually going to market it, then you start getting into
Speaker: well, we either need to make our own art or license some sort of art.
Speaker: And it's unlikely that Stern will license their art to a third party.
Speaker: So that's, that's where the challenge is.
Speaker: However, I, I'm with Joel.
Speaker: I like having interaction.
Speaker: I like having the dynamic light show with the toppers, as opposed to just an illuminated thing.
Speaker: That's the reason why the medieval madness topper is so great.
Speaker: I mean, it's a stagnant topper.
Speaker: but it has this interactive light show that, that grabs your attention.
Speaker: And even the, you know, you know, uh, the attack from Mars.
Speaker: I still love that one because it jumps up and down, but that's what I'm looking for in a topper.
Speaker: And you know what, to be, to be fair, I, I was impressed with the Mandalorian topper, but that was a price too far for me.
Speaker: And so like, where's that sweet spot of like these, because you have these elite toppers that are like 1500 or 2500.
Speaker: I mean, you saw the one that for our, um, for Pirates of the Caribbean.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: And like, those were really impressive.
Speaker: The Indiana Jones one with 24 karat gold or whatever it was.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Don't touch it, but it looks great.
Speaker: No, it looked, it looked great.
Speaker: But at some point you're thinking, wow, like that's half a game.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: I thought this topper looks amazing, this Godzilla topper.
Speaker: This is how good it is.
Speaker: It fooled people in the community to make them think this was the official topper coming out from Stern.
Speaker: That's how good this topper was.
Speaker: And so if you're producing that top of quality, I can't wait to see what they have at Texas Pinball Festival because they're coming with a new topper for a classic Bally Williams game.
Speaker: And it's going to be a showstopper.
Speaker: I'm excited to see what they're going to do.
Speaker: And the titles in the nineties are going to have a little more flexibility for using, or for at least contracting your own art or doing something that, that blends well with the art on the cabinet already.
Speaker: Yeah, you don't have to do like a specific character or person or something.
Speaker: I mean, you can make it fit in.
Speaker: But I know the reason that one topper looks so good is because it is Zombie Yeti's art.
Speaker: So I know they're kind of sketching a fine line there of pulling, you know, using art that they didn't produce.
Speaker: But it looked, it blended in perfectly with the cabinet.
Speaker: And that's where I struggle with some after mods.
Speaker: You know, any mod that I put on a game, I want it to feel like it could be original with the game.
Speaker: And that's, you know, art blades are another thing where if I don't like the stern art blades, like Deadpool, there's so much red in the game already.
Speaker: The Deadpool art blades are just solid red, essentially, unless you have an LE.
Speaker: And so I was looking at every other version of the art blade possible.
Speaker: And it just bothered me because the art style, even though it's Deadpool, it's a different art style and it stood out.
Speaker: So I ended up going mirror blades because I just couldn't justify going with a different art style.
Speaker: But it now it's the...
Speaker: The interesting thing is with this topper, you notice they actually had a third party translate in there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so, so that was interesting because they didn't, that does switch up the art a little bit, but I'm with you, Joel.
Speaker: It's, it can be a little challenging.
Speaker: I want it to feel like it's married.
Speaker: Oh yes.
Speaker: And so, and I actually have the alternative back glass in my medieval madness.
Speaker: Uh, the, the one that Brian Allen did, um,
Speaker: And I got the art blades that he did too, because mine, you know, I just wanted to make it a little different.
Speaker: But it feels like it's all one package.
Speaker: So I like that, but...
Speaker: Well, that brings up like, so Cactus Canyon, if I'm looking at the SE+, the SE+, doesn't come with art blades.
Speaker: The LE does.
Speaker: And they don't, Chicago Gaming doesn't sell those art blades.
Speaker: So I'm like, crap, I can't get art blades from the company that match this art style.
Speaker: So then you're looking at Flyland Designs, which are, that art is incredible.
Speaker: But it's like, well, if I'm going to have that art style and the art blades, then I better swap out the Translite so that I can get some sort of cohesive, you know, art thing going.
Speaker: And I don't know, you know, first world problems.
Speaker: But these are the things I think about and I haven't even bought the game.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: The toppers, I'm with you.
Speaker: I am willing to pay money for a topper as long as it looks like it could have come with the game.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: I have taken the plunge.
Speaker: Scott, you've taken the plunge.
Speaker: Once you get in the topper world, prepare yourself because you're stuck.
Speaker: You're stuck.
Speaker: You have to get a topper.
Speaker: And that's what's silly is if I'm playing, if I'm thinking to myself, I want to get a CGC game.
Speaker: Well, like I can't get a monster bash unless I get an LE and I'm not going to pay that much for it.
Speaker: Like I, and the aftermarket toppers don't work.
Speaker: It's a silly game.
Speaker: Part of me was just sell all my toppers so I can get back out of it and feel free again.
Speaker: But at the same time, I love them.
Speaker: Like the, I really do think if you get a good one that integrates well with the game,
Speaker: It's worth it.
Speaker: Hey, Joel, don't tell anyone, but I still have a Black Knight topper in the box.
Speaker: You're just ready.
Speaker: You're ready to go.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I will say like back, I know we've already moved on, but the Cactus Canyon topper, it legitimately adds something to the game.
Speaker: The knock sound, it makes every single time that you shoot something.
Speaker: And then the video mode, that's actually a physical mode.
Speaker: It's like the lights associate with the you.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: People are the windows and stuff.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: It's so like in my mind, Black Knight Topper school.
Speaker: But this this is probably number one with when it comes to top.
Speaker: OK, so to me, it's like I've got if I can buy the game with that and it adds that much to the game, I would if I was if I was buying a Cactus Canyon right now, I would go SC plus or LE period.
Speaker: I would definitely say it's tied for me.
Speaker: Because I love the attack from Mars topper.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: That's really, that is so good.
Speaker: But yes, all CGC toppers are tied for one.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But let's talk about the difference between, because CGC toppers, they have, it is like a diorama.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And they, they put into it to make it look really impressive.
Speaker: And I can't even remember what the, the medieval madness topper was.
Speaker: Cause I, I got all those kits and I basically made mine the Royal edition.
Speaker: Um, the only thing is I don't have a powder coated yet.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: But it's a 3D sculpt and it looks really good.
Speaker: This has always been my slight complaint on toppers is that when it looks like it's basically layered plastics that could be on some sort of sales display at Walmart.
Speaker: Like, you know, you have those end caps, right?
Speaker: And you go and you're like, oh, Godzilla DVDs are for sale.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, there's an advertisement on top with basically a 3D cut out plastic that advertises Godzilla.
Speaker: Okay, that's what it looks like.
Speaker: That's not what the Chicago Game Company toppers look like.
Speaker: And so they look amazing.
Speaker: They're so professional.
Speaker: And I mean, all mine are in the basement and I have two very young kids that are down here.
Speaker: And in my mind, one thrown ball in the wrong direction, there's a good chance some of my stern toppers would crack or break.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: I'm pretty sure this Chicago, I'm pretty sure I could take the topper off and drop it and it wouldn't break.
Speaker: It is so well built.
Speaker: And I don't want it.
Speaker: It's just one more area.
Speaker: I know I just sound like a fanboy and a huge shill, but it's one more area that I was just not prepared for how how good that game is.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I want to move on to 2.0 kits are becoming just standard.
Speaker: They're releasing more and more.
Speaker: I know last year at TPF, they talked about
Speaker: uh, Mirco is doing a totan, a tales of the Arabian nights.
Speaker: It's officially licensed from planetary pinball, but one that was sent to us last month from Cardona pinball is no good gophers 2.0.
Speaker: And it is officially licensed.
Speaker: I'm kind of surprised no one's talking about this.
Speaker: Um, I, I'm, I want to get my first impression since you guys on this last one, go ahead.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: I have a love-hate relationship with this thing.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I just looking at it, I don't mind the chipmunk.
Speaker: If you guys haven't looked at this, go to CardonaPinball.com.
Speaker: C-A-R-D-O-N-A Pinball.com.
Speaker: And the two animals that they picked for the gophers, one you could kind of write off as a gopher.
Speaker: It looks more like chipmunk from Chippendale Rescue Rangers, right?
Speaker: And then the other one is like a naked mole rat mixed with a pit bull.
Speaker: That's the best way I can explain it.
Speaker: I don't know what they were going for here.
Speaker: Maybe a hairless woodchuck.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It kind of throws me off so much that it's kind of off-putting.
Speaker: But watching the gameplay and stuff, gameplay looks fun.
Speaker: It's kind of hard to tell exactly what everything is doing.
Speaker: But this seems to be the route.
Speaker: And it makes me wonder, you know, Eclectic Gamers podcast had talked about on their last episode –
Speaker: of rumor corner cgc potentially losing the licensing from planetary pinball and that's why they're moving on to uh just doing their own thing that's you know the rumor has been pulp fiction and if that's the case this cardona pinball kind of shows why you want someone as quality as cgc doing your games we've talked about how amazing these toppers are how quality the games are the build is amazing
Speaker: I think if you start giving out licenses to whoever wants them, not saying this is a terrible product, but it doesn't match up to what a CGC product is.
Speaker: And so I do want to play this just because it's pinball.
Speaker: I'm really intrigued to see what people are coming out with the 2.0 kits because some of them are really standing up and looking great, and some of them are falling a little bit short, but it's still a new way to bring your old game into a modern era.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: What's your guys' thoughts?
Speaker: I have two questions.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: How many no good gophers are on the market right now?
Speaker: Is this, is this up or is this like a, no, is this gear for people who are, who already have it, have the game?
Speaker: Because part of me says, if you already have the game, then you still like the game typically.
Speaker: And are you going to go out and buy a classic Valley Williams for, and I would say that, and no good gophers is probably a B title.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's not an a title.
Speaker: It's not Adam's family or a, or twilight zone or something like that, but it's, it's a solid player game that is limited by that.
Speaker: Now, I would even say it's a C title.
Speaker: I just, I don't, I don't see people clamoring for a no good gophers.
Speaker: I just don't.
Speaker: So that's the challenge is that, okay, well, then you have that.
Speaker: Also, we talked about this before.
Speaker: If you want it to look, so no good gophers, the estimated value is 5,200.
Speaker: I just looked it up.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And so you buy that and then you buy another one that's this thing that's 2,000 bucks.
Speaker: And I would say that the back glass looks like that chipmunk a little bit.
Speaker: Um, but getting back to what we talked about with toppers, this doesn't look like it would be obviously produced by the people who made the game in the first place.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Whereas fun house 2.0.
Speaker: That's what I was about to say.
Speaker: Fun house 2.0 looks like it could slide right in there and do that.
Speaker: So is that now is, is that a drawback?
Speaker: No, but your, your market is very limited.
Speaker: Because you're doing a reboot of a 30-year-old game.
Speaker: And what's your return on investment?
Speaker: How many of these do you have to sell to break even?
Speaker: Because it costs a lot of money to do that, to do animations.
Speaker: I would assume anybody that's doing these, it is a passion project.
Speaker: Because, sure, if they were smart, they would, and I'm not saying they're dumb, but if they were doing the market research, you would think they would be doing kits on games that there's a ton of them out there and they're super well liked.
Speaker: So No Good Gophers is an interesting choice.
Speaker: So I'm assuming it is some sort of passion project.
Speaker: I mean, I know like Scott Tenisi, he had an Earthshaker and did like his own version of Earthshaker Code.
Speaker: If that was today, sure, he could have teamed up with somebody and sold that, you know, the modifications that he made as a package if he wanted to.
Speaker: My view on the 2.0 code, though, is I kind of feel like that's what you're going to get with Cactus Canyon, you know, like with the lineman code, that will be a 2.0 version of a code set.
Speaker: But I also feel if you own some of these older games and you love those older games, like they are stuck in your collection, it would be hard pressed for me to
Speaker: If I love no gold, no good gophers, it would be hard pressed for me to almost not want to buy that kit because it's already a game I love.
Speaker: So if you're telling me I can add more to it, if I, you know, it's, it's holding up a spot in my, on my lane.
Speaker: If I, if I can go deeper with that, with that code set, part of me would really want to.
Speaker: And there's, there's a few games like taxi.
Speaker: I love the game taxi, but it's hard for me to justify having one in my lineup.
Speaker: But if I knew there was a taxi 2.0 version,
Speaker: Where it's like, crap, you're telling me I can bring in modern light shows, potentially modern sound, or if they swap it out with some sort of DMD.
Speaker: If you can make that game more modern, but still be the original game as well.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I see the appeal there.
Speaker: I'm surprised Tales of the Arabian Night.
Speaker: That makes sense why they did that.
Speaker: Funhaus makes sense.
Speaker: No Good Gophers is kind of surprised, but it's not enough for me to want to go buy that game.
Speaker: If I don't like the main game itself...
Speaker: I'm not expecting the 2.0 game to like, I don't know, just blow it out of the water.
Speaker: To revitalize it?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Well, and what's interesting to me is these other 2.0 kits.
Speaker: So Funhouse, there was over 10,000 of those games produced.
Speaker: Bride of Pinball, over 8,000.
Speaker: Totan's a relatively low number at 3,500 or like 3,200.
Speaker: And it's really weird to me you pick No Good Gophers that had 1,700 games.
Speaker: I'm just a passion project.
Speaker: That's the only thing I can think of.
Speaker: But if that's the case, I don't know.
Speaker: It's weird to me to officially license it when it's a passion project.
Speaker: And maybe it's a starting point.
Speaker: Who else is doing it, though?
Speaker: I guess no one else is.
Speaker: Is this a calling card?
Speaker: If you're paying the licensing fee and they're like, well...
Speaker: you can give it a shot.
Speaker: Pay me my, pay me my royalties.
Speaker: No one else is asking for this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It may be different if it were like an, you know, okay.
Speaker: An MMR two point or a medieval madness two point or, or something along those lines where that.
Speaker: They must think it's good enough.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: More than one person, you know, anybody can make their own passion project.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And they don't have to license it.
Speaker: They just make, they do whatever they want.
Speaker: But if they think it's good enough that they're like, Hey, if we can sell,
Speaker: five, 10, 50 of these kits or more.
Speaker: Well, let's do it the right way.
Speaker: Let's not get in trouble doing it.
Speaker: Let's license it and see what the demand is.
Speaker: And this is a good test case to see what you can do with old games.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Or that's something where they could get, maybe it's a resume builder.
Speaker: Like I did this and then they're going to reach out to, I know JJP has like a coder position open right now.
Speaker: So if they can take that as a resume builder to go to an actual manufacturer, like, Hey, I did this.
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I have no idea.
Speaker: But good on them.
Speaker: If they're doing it the right way, they're getting it licensed.
Speaker: I hope they sell as many as they feel comfortable making and hope people love it.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: Well, and it's funny, too, because the whirlwind 2.0, the guy that was making that and was going to license it, and then he got shot down because it sounds like there's already one in the making.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I guess if you're looking to make a 2.0 kit, it's not super hard because we have the P3 system.
Speaker: You can code it yourself, polish it up, make it look good, hire an artist.
Speaker: This might be a great way to make some side money in the pinball hobby.
Speaker: And in my opinion, it doesn't look like...
Speaker: planetary pinball is very picky on who they're, they're choosing.
Speaker: And that's not a shot at, well, I'll, I'll push back on that.
Speaker: We don't have enough information to,
Speaker: to judge this and we only have the video to judge it on.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: We haven't played it.
Speaker: It's like we were talking about before with cactus Canyon.
Speaker: Like you want the game to feel cohesive.
Speaker: And I don't feel like the characters that they've produced for no good gophers 2.0 is cohesive with the original art and intention of the original game.
Speaker: Simple as that.
Speaker: You don't want to add anything.
Speaker: So like, I know you're probably sick of me saying it, but like Caxias Canyon, if the lineman, the rumored thing is potentially adding doors, like barn doors or saloon doors in front of Bart.
Speaker: So my thought is like, I don't want them to change anything about the current code right now.
Speaker: Like I want there to be the still the way to play the original code set.
Speaker: So I'm curious if there's a physical thing added to the game, are those saloon doors just always going to be open?
Speaker: You know, like I don't want them...
Speaker: I don't want now that to be something that's added to the original code.
Speaker: Maybe it will.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: But that's my thing with some of these 2.0 kits.
Speaker: If I have to add something physical to the game, I want it to still feel cohesive enough that I could play the original game, which I love.
Speaker: And that's why I own it, right?
Speaker: Whether it's whatever game it is.
Speaker: But I don't want you to add something that now, you know, if it's a screen and it's just black when you play the original game, then all of a sudden you feel like, well, I don't want to stare at a black screen.
Speaker: I'm going to always play the 2.0 version.
Speaker: I don't want to lose the original version, you know?
Speaker: So you want, you want whatever you're adding to feel cohesive, but then also be able to flip a switch or whatever and go to the 2.0 and then feel something new.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's probably hard to do.
Speaker: I don't really know.
Speaker: Once you add a DMD or something and add some sort of video assets, it's going to be hard to do.
Speaker: But if that's something that I do like about the CGC games, though, of just changing the lights, going from a regular light to an RGB light and just adding that light show, you know, it feels modern, but you're not changing the core of the game.
Speaker: You're also playing that retro card where they updated the dots, so it still is a DMD game, but it's kind of a modern retro feel on it.
Speaker: Yes, and just a random side note on that, my view, these XL displays are so well done that anytime people talk about why don't they do a Tron rerun or a Lord of the Rings rerun, to be honest, I do not want, if they redid Lord of the Rings, I would not want them to bring in movie assets.
Speaker: I would want them to do something like that.
Speaker: Give me an XL display.
Speaker: Give me a bigger colored version of a DMD.
Speaker: Keep your animations, just polish them a little more.
Speaker: And then we don't have to deal with the licensing of character rights or all that.
Speaker: Same with Tron.
Speaker: Could you imagine a Tron remake with that XL display and like high quality dots?
Speaker: Like it would be insane.
Speaker: It would be so great.
Speaker: Or Walking Dead.
Speaker: Do a Walking Dead, but do comic book art style with that type of huge display in it.
Speaker: I mean, sign me up.
Speaker: That would be so great.
Speaker: But I don't, I don't, that's, seeing a game like that, that to me, it's like, I don't, if Stern or somebody else was going to remake some of their older games, you don't have to bring in the LCD screen, but you could make the DMD that much better.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: You can modernize the DMD by still keeping it period consistent.
Speaker: Yeah, it's a dot matrix display still, but make those dots colored and give me more of them and bigger.
Speaker: And light the speakers up while you're at it because that's awesome too.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So speaking of extra large displays, Joel, you sent this to us.
Speaker: We have a chat going on with us and Travis and Tom.
Speaker: And it was an extra large display for the Sturm games.
Speaker: I saw this and I thought, this is a really cool concept.
Speaker: But the first hang up is, it changes the shape of your speakers.
Speaker: Like, I don't know if this comes with speakers.
Speaker: I should have developed a little bit.
Speaker: It does.
Speaker: It does.
Speaker: So, like with me, I'm getting ready to put a pin woofer kit in my Godzilla.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: And I wouldn't want to subtract the pinwoofer kit to add the extra large display.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So this is very interesting because I've had this mentality.
Speaker: If I have a small collection and I have four of them, and I know this game is quote unquote bolted, I don't have problems making it the best version of that game I can.
Speaker: That's why I like powder coating or adding a topper or anything.
Speaker: I don't mind investing more in the game.
Speaker: So I'm a huge fan of speaker light kits.
Speaker: And so when I saw that initial thing, it's like, well, shoot, if I want to make my Godzilla premium as good as I possibly can, sure, a bigger screen, why would I not do that?
Speaker: Well, for me to add three inches to the screen, I would have just lost my burning city speaker light kits.
Speaker: That's a compromise I'm not willing to take.
Speaker: But I'd be curious, if these XL screens catch on,
Speaker: it would be interesting to see if like Doug at speaker light kits now makes a kit specifically for this, or if the pinwoofer team, um, amazing people over there, if all of a sudden they make a kit, it's, it's, it's whether or not other mod makers will adapt if this screen, but it's 650 bucks.
Speaker: It's made by a company over in Spain, I think, um, Madrid, it's an all complete package.
Speaker: Like it looks like you basically unbolt,
Speaker: your current lcd panel that has the speakers in it you unplug a few things you unbolt that you bolt in this new thing plug it back in boom now your screen is three inches bigger and your speakers instead of being a four inch speaker they are nicer than the stock speakers but it's more of like an oval shape instead so i i bet it's great i if they if they're smart and they have a few at tpf there will be people that will buy one for every one of their stern games
Speaker: Um, but if you're a speaker light guy, speaker light kit guy, uh, it's going to be, you're going to lose those unless somebody decides to adapt and make their own kits for it.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So we're kind of running down to the wire.
Speaker: I wanted to take a small jab at Zach many for a second, because he was talking about,
Speaker: pinball market trends being the best segment out of any pinball podcast.
Speaker: You're saying that wrong.
Speaker: Pinball market trends.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Flawless.
Speaker: And...
Speaker: I'm going to remind him that we have our own called Segment Still, and he totally passed up Triple Drain or Triple Combo, right?
Speaker: I know, right?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so in honor of that, I'm going to do a Segment Still tonight.
Speaker: And I put on here Market Trends, but I'm shifting gears because since we have a guest on, I'm going to put Scott and Joel Engelberth head-to-head.
Speaker: Oh, I was not prepared.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: Yes, this is not.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: I wasn't prepared for any of this.
Speaker: Wait a second.
Speaker: I'm going to put on my Loser Kid hat.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And in honor of saying head-to-head, we're going to bring back the top 100.
Speaker: If you're not familiar with this game, we're going to take a random number generator of 1 through 100...
Speaker: Scott's going to get a number.
Speaker: Joel's going to get a number.
Speaker: And that is their game that they have to.
Speaker: You have to argue it.
Speaker: You argue it.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: One to 100 is huge.
Speaker: Like something good.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Let's do it.
Speaker: Let's do it.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: We're doing this.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Pinside top 100.
Speaker: I've got the random number generator up right now.
Speaker: Do you guys want to rock, paper, scissors who gets the first number?
Speaker: Or do you know, I'm going to let, I'm going to let Joel because he's the guest.
Speaker: That is incredibly kind.
Speaker: Okay, ready?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Rolling 82.
Speaker: 82.
Speaker: I'm going to have to scroll over for that one.
Speaker: Pinbot.
Speaker: Pinbot.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Is that Joel's or is that Scott's?
Speaker: That's Joel's because he was first.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: I'm rolling again.
Speaker: 48.
Speaker: What did he get?
Speaker: Oh.
Speaker: Star Wars.
Speaker: Oh.
Speaker: Oh my goodness.
Speaker: This one actually pretty good.
Speaker: Okay, this is Star Wars versus Pinball.
Speaker: Let me remind everyone the rules.
Speaker: We're going to do 30 seconds apiece.
Speaker: The first round, you are solely talking about your game.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: You are welcome to use the flyer if you like.
Speaker: You're welcome to personal experience.
Speaker: Whatever you want to do.
Speaker: And then the second round, you can either talk your game up more, you can tear down the other person's game, or you can defend.
Speaker: So if they make a statement.
Speaker: Or no, it's attack or build it up, and then I think there's one final round, and you can either defend your statement, essentially.
Speaker: It's your rebuttal, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, your rebuttal.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: Ray for this magic.
Speaker: Let's do it.
Speaker: So Joel, you'll go first.
Speaker: You are talking about Pimbot.
Speaker: Your 30 seconds starts now.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So first and foremost, I am incredibly surprised that Pinbot is this low on the list because this is a incredibly classic, well-known, well-loved game.
Speaker: It has some pretty revolutionary mechs that are unforgettable.
Speaker: I don't even I mean, we'll just start at the top.
Speaker: First, it has a topper.
Speaker: It has a topper.
Speaker: This was an early game to have a topper and it interacts with the game incredibly well.
Speaker: You go a little further below that, the back glass has visor that when you get to certain points in the mode, all of a sudden these eyes appear.
Speaker: So you know when you're playing the game.
Speaker: 30 seconds.
Speaker: That was so fast.
Speaker: But hey, the top half of the game is incredible, apparently.
Speaker: It really is good.
Speaker: All righty, Scott.
Speaker: And just to remind everyone...
Speaker: Joel has pinball and Scott has star Wars.
Speaker: And this is Stern Stern star Wars.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So on your mark, Scott go.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: If you have a dream theme that you've always wanted to be made into pinball,
Speaker: I have the game for you.
Speaker: You plunge it and immediately goes down the middle.
Speaker: You have a fork ramp on the left side that only works about three, four, like one third of the time.
Speaker: You have a supercharger that you get to see maybe twice in the game.
Speaker: I mean, it's stripped down.
Speaker: It has a TIE fighter on a string.
Speaker: You're talking about everything that you want in a game that is your dream theme.
Speaker: And you should buy, you definitely shouldn't buy the comic book version.
Speaker: Okay, okay, you're not.
Speaker: You need to buy the clip art version.
Speaker: Oh.
Speaker: Hey, way to keep it in time, man.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Nailed it.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So round two, Scott and Joel can either defend their game or they can attack the other person's game.
Speaker: I would like to continue to talk about, yes, I would like to continue to talk about how great my game is because I would like to get to the play field.
Speaker: You actually get to the play field.
Speaker: I'm trying your time right now.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: We were talking earlier about how much people like bash toys.
Speaker: You bash down a visor.
Speaker: You have a physical ball lock.
Speaker: You have two of them.
Speaker: It's incredibly easy to know and see what you need to do.
Speaker: It's just, I don't know.
Speaker: It's super easy to understand game.
Speaker: Unlike Star Wars, which you have no idea what you're doing.
Speaker: It's a ton of flashing lights.
Speaker: If the ball is still in play after your plunge, you're just going to flail around and hope you hit something to see more movie clips that you want to see of that game.
Speaker: Not to mention you're going to be bashing the action button most of the time you're playing, trying to get more TIE fighters.
Speaker: But Pinbot, on the other hand, you're hoping for dirty pool.
Speaker: You're hoping to get a ball stuck in there.
Speaker: You're hoping to see the visor go off.
Speaker: It's a great light show.
Speaker: There's no confusion.
Speaker: 30 seconds.
Speaker: 30 seconds.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Jury.
Speaker: Star Wars is a great team.
Speaker: I'll tell you that.
Speaker: I need you to stricken the last 25 seconds.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Do not.
Speaker: Do not factor that in.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Oh, I was way over again?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, I thought you said three seconds.
Speaker: I thought you were like, oh, I thought you were like telling me to like, like counting me down.
Speaker: Oh, I'm very sorry.
Speaker: So take away everything negative I said about Star Wars.
Speaker: Completely forget that and focus on how great pins.
Speaker: You can do about 10 seconds.
Speaker: You actually did really well in keeping.
Speaker: You got some negative in there about Star Wars.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: You ready, Scott?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Go.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Pin bot.
Speaker: If you want a game that you shoot straight up the middle and get a drain straight down the center, I've got the game for you.
Speaker: Not only does I have five targets that you are shooting for that are guaranteed to drain straight down the middle, but you also have some random ramp on the left side and maybe some drop targets.
Speaker: So I, this is a game that only screams.
Speaker: You want to put up one quarter in me because otherwise you will walk away and then try to find flash.
Speaker: Okay, 30 seconds.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: In hindsight, this might have been a bad idea to give Scott Star Wars.
Speaker: Well, a random number is a random number, man.
Speaker: It's random.
Speaker: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker: It's true.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: You had to calculate it about five times to get Star Wars 2 for me.
Speaker: See, when you say and 30 seconds, I think 30 seconds to go.
Speaker: Oh, no, no.
Speaker: And time.
Speaker: No, I should say and time.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So this is your final round.
Speaker: You're welcome to defend your game in rebuttal, or if you want to take one final bow, you can.
Speaker: You ready?
Speaker: Joel, go.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: I mean, I think Scott described his game incredibly well.
Speaker: I really don't have anything else to say about his game.
Speaker: But what I will say is Pinbot is well loved.
Speaker: It was well loved so much that they made two additional versions of the game.
Speaker: It's a non-licensed theme that only grew from its original game.
Speaker: And it's I don't know.
Speaker: It's a fantastic game.
Speaker: People love it.
Speaker: I don't know how much time I have, but I don't even have to say anything about Star Wars.
Speaker: We'll just do eight seconds of silence.
Speaker: Eight seconds of silence.
Speaker: Hey, in that eight seconds, you could plunge twice and drain on Star Wars.
Speaker: Oh, all right, Scott, you ready to wrap this up?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Okay, go.
Speaker: Okay, I take offense that you're saying that you can only plunge two balls in eight seconds on Star Wars.
Speaker: You could plunge the whole game under eight seconds because they'll just go straight down the middle.
Speaker: Also, the Death Star never really works.
Speaker: Nothing actually happens.
Speaker: It's like an egg that's cracking open.
Speaker: You're defending your game, Scott.
Speaker: What's it going to drop a front egg in there?
Speaker: I mean, is this...
Speaker: Man, if there was a more disappointing implementation of my dream thing, I could not possibly present it.
Speaker: Oh, my goodness.
Speaker: So is this where we let the user vote and we wait to see who won after two weeks?
Speaker: So we'll talk about the results in two weeks.
Speaker: But now it is your turn, listener.
Speaker: We're going to kick this to you on Facebook.
Speaker: That's where we're going to do the poll.
Speaker: But if you will please go on our Facebook.
Speaker: Actually, let's do Facebook and Facebook.
Speaker: Instagram.
Speaker: We'll do both.
Speaker: Because I know there's not some crossover there.
Speaker: So let's do one on both.
Speaker: And you can either choose Joel's argument for Pinbot or Scott's argument for Stern Star Wars.
Speaker: I think Scott's argument with Star Wars was pretty accurate.
Speaker: I just think he was going in the wrong direction.
Speaker: I will say in fairness,
Speaker: Star Wars was a game that I was on the LE list for.
Speaker: And when I saw it revealed, I said pass.
Speaker: And I don't look back on that.
Speaker: So are we allowed to share our honest opinions now?
Speaker: Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker: I will say, to be honest, I've owned Pinbot and it was the fastest game I sold.
Speaker: I bought it in a three package deal and I had it for less than two weeks.
Speaker: And it wasn't that I wasn't bad.
Speaker: It was like, this is a fun game, but there's so much nostalgia towards that game that I don't have.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That I was like, this game, it's fun.
Speaker: I see why people like it, but I don't have any attachment to it.
Speaker: So I'll sell it to somebody who does.
Speaker: And it sold within a day.
Speaker: There was a mom and her son that came and they were so excited to get that game.
Speaker: Um, so I get it.
Speaker: I get, well, it's well, well, why it's well liked.
Speaker: I just don't, it was fastest game out of my collection while star Wars.
Speaker: I've never cared for it.
Speaker: Cause it's always kicked my butt on location, but we did stream it the night before the pinball awards and actually having somebody explain the rules to me.
Speaker: I get that.
Speaker: Like the rules are actually incredibly well done.
Speaker: I think Dwight did a good job with the rules, but it's just, it's not, it's not something you're just going to walk up and just immediately understand what to do.
Speaker: I will say that in fairness, my friend Garrett Ledger, who's out here, he says Star Wars is one of his favorite games.
Speaker: So I need to go and spend more time on Star Wars.
Speaker: It could be that just the one that I was playing on was so wickedly hard set up that I just I didn't feel like it was fun at all.
Speaker: Now, Garrett also said he didn't like Godzilla.
Speaker: So take that take that into account.
Speaker: But yeah.
Speaker: If you can't keep the ball alive long enough to experience any of the code or rules, then it's not a fun game.
Speaker: It doesn't matter how good the game is.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Here's the problem with Star Wars.
Speaker: Here's, I have it pinpointed to a T. I think everyone else has said this.
Speaker: The problem is everyone steps up to a game and they usually full plunge on a game.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: And if you full plunge on Star Wars, it shoots you right into those stand-up targets and you're dead.
Speaker: And so your first natural instinct, it just automatically kills your first ball.
Speaker: And if you're not paying attention, you're like, well, I'll just do that again.
Speaker: The next thing you know, your game is over before you even really started.
Speaker: And so you have to get used to soft plunging on that game.
Speaker: to even really experience that game i think that's the problem is people just kind of bull moose in and and they can't experience the game and it's hard to get it under control once you get under control it's somewhat enjoyable but i think that's the hardest part when when you can't even really start the game you don't want to play the game okay this is also the same thing with um oh oktoberfest okay
Speaker: So you have this really cool wire form that is so amazingly hard to actually get going in the game.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And it's the same thing with the supercharger.
Speaker: Yes, it, it happens or not the supercharger is the hyper loop, the hyper loop or whatever.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But it's, it's not easy to actually get things going in that.
Speaker: And so,
Speaker: the one, like the cool visual thing that you have, it doesn't draw you back because it's so hard to start.
Speaker: Like, you know, with medieval madness, you can destroy the castle in three shots.
Speaker: It's really the first entrance.
Speaker: And so people are like, oh, that's cool.
Speaker: And yeah, then it gets harder in the game, but there should be a little bit more of a do the cool thing in star Wars.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Then,
Speaker: I have to give credit to Ryan McQuaid, who's now hired at American Pinball, because one of his intro interviews, he made the comment of one of my theories is I never want to hide mechanical fun behind code.
Speaker: And that's something that it's like, yeah, that hyperloop, you got to do a lot of things and then hit some hard shots to experience the cool, huge mech that's across the whole play field.
Speaker: So, yeah, if a novice gets up there and goes, how do I do this?
Speaker: Good luck.
Speaker: It's probably not going to happen.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, I agree.
Speaker: This is going to be an interesting one, honestly, from the community because Pinball, like you said, Joel, Pinball is so iconic, but the original version was very limited to its time.
Speaker: I think that's why Jackpot is loved.
Speaker: And then you have Bride of Pinball.
Speaker: Actually, I prefer Bride of Pinball.
Speaker: it's it's a more fun game i like jackpot i think that the especially with some of the if you're able to lock both balls and and then shoot into like is it the um the jackpot the sorry the like the casino shot you get like a super jackpot jackpot i mean there's some really cool rules to it i think it was a great upgrade from the original and so it has a little more last ability in the collection sure so
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I still think Scott had the better argument.
Speaker: He just was arguing against his own game.
Speaker: Well, it's going to be interesting to see what they say.
Speaker: And we'll, we'll post those results results next episode.
Speaker: Um, I think that pretty much wraps it up for everything we were going to talk about.
Speaker: So, uh, Joel, thanks for coming on and joining us.
Speaker: The triple loser kid pop, uh,
Speaker: Whatever.
Speaker: This is great.
Speaker: And shout out to so you can catch Joel on his own show, which is triple drain pinball and streaming.
Speaker: Joel, how else can I get a hold of you and then tell who else is on your your podcast with you?
Speaker: Yeah, so Triple Drain Pinball Podcast.
Speaker: Travis Murri and Tom Graff have a great time with that.
Speaker: Lots of laughs.
Speaker: We do video now, so you can check that out on the Pinball Network on YouTube.
Speaker: We should do video, Josh.
Speaker: It's fun.
Speaker: It's a little more work, but people like it on YouTube.
Speaker: Or you listen to the Pinball Network.
Speaker: It's Triple Drain.
Speaker: It's on that on any podcatcher you listen to.
Speaker: And then I stream for Flippin' Out on the Flippin' Out YouTube channel, not on Twitch, on YouTube, every Wednesday night, 10 to midnight, Eastern Standard Time.
Speaker: And we rotate between actually streaming pinball and then doing a Flippin' Out with Friends, which is like a chatting stream where I grab four other people or three other people, and we just try to chat it up and talk news and go through a bunch of stuff.
Speaker: And that's a good time.
Speaker: And you can see all those live videos.
Speaker: videos on uh on the flipping out youtube page you just have to click the live tab instead of the video tab but you'll see them there yeah you forgot to mention scott he's like on everything so you've got triple drain you've got just another pinball he's overexposed yeah flipping out stream i love joel and friends yeah flipping out with friends but yes the just another pinball podcast
Speaker: those are just interviews at this point.
Speaker: And I just love talking pinball.
Speaker: I love, I love knowing how things are made.
Speaker: So if I can interview people like designers and just try to get in their, their head space of how they did what they did.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: I love those conversations.
Speaker: And same thing with, I just, I just love talking pinball.
Speaker: I love, I love being with people and talking to people.
Speaker: So when you guys send me the, put up the bat signal at whatever, 10 o'clock at night on a Friday, Hey, you want to record a podcast?
Speaker: And my wife is super comfortable on a couch staring at her phone.
Speaker: The answer is yes.
Speaker: I will gladly hop on your podcast and talk pinball.
Speaker: And I will say the triple drain shirt is one of the coolest shirts.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Shout out to Jackson Gee.
Speaker: Yeah, that's the Hydra.
Speaker: It looks amazing.
Speaker: You could put that on the Godzilla alternative back glass.
Speaker: He was a joy to work with.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I got to ask Joel, how does it feel to be inducted into the goat club?
Speaker: You're sitting there watching District 82 and Keith's wearing triple drain and lose a kid on the stream.
Speaker: It feels good.
Speaker: It's good.
Speaker: Not only is it cool to see somebody like that wear your merch, but also to know they're a fan is very awesome.
Speaker: It's way awesome.
Speaker: So we really appreciate that.
Speaker: And, you know, I still gloat about Joel, but it was so cool meeting you for the first time at Pinball Olympics last year at Pinball Expo.
Speaker: And it just was fun, casual, great casual time, you know.
Speaker: And still, there's one moment that stuck out to me.
Speaker: You were driving us back because you were nice enough to shuttle us from Bangor Jay's house, which is an hour away from Expo.
Speaker: Yeah, wow.
Speaker: And you're like, it's like having a live podcast in my backseat right now.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I was listening to you guys on the drive to Chicago and then to be driving around Chicago and have you in the car.
Speaker: It was kind of surreal.
Speaker: But no, I know I will be at Texas Pinball Festival.
Speaker: So with the Triple Drain guys, I know you guys won't, which is unfortunate.
Speaker: But hey, Chicago Pinball Expo in October, I should be there as well.
Speaker: So it should be a great time.
Speaker: Next year, I'll be planning on doing Texas.
Speaker: My wife just had to go to Taylor Swift with her sisters.
Speaker: I get it, man.
Speaker: Life happens.
Speaker: I've got to give one more jab, though, before we leave.
Speaker: Travis.
Speaker: pinball awards you took third you took third because of your vote and to david dennis of all people yeah really i don't know i think he i think david needs it more than we do i think he just i think he just
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: A lot less tears for him, I think.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Travis still has the... He's in the Hall of Fame for having the double zero ball.
Speaker: Forever.
Speaker: Forever.
Speaker: If he's never going to forget it, we're not going to let him.
Speaker: I was in a tournament last week, and...
Speaker: that happened.
Speaker: The double zero happened on, I think it was Simpson's pinball party.
Speaker: And I was like, okay, that's not hard to happen on Simpson's pinball party.
Speaker: I was shocked though.
Speaker: I was.
Speaker: So yeah, it's an, it's impressive that somebody can pull a plunger four times and manage to not score a single point.
Speaker: But Travis found a way.
Speaker: He found a way to do it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And not only did he do it, he did it in the finals against Keith Escher.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: With a lot of people watching, but that's fine.
Speaker: I mean, yeah, it's all pressure.
Speaker: I mean, you know what?
Speaker: Travis is that good.
Speaker: He just wanted to spot them.
Speaker: It's like, I can do this with two balls.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't need the first one.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We'll go with that.
Speaker: Why not?
Speaker: According to your insider connected, the first ball is always the loser ball, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's the ball three.
Speaker: It's the house ball.
Speaker: Three ball.
Speaker: Well, if you want to get a hold of us, we are Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: If you want to find us on the socials, we are at Loser Kid Pinball on Facebook, Twitch, Instagram, Twitter.
Speaker: And now on YouTube, we have a channel.
Speaker: Maybe we'll do something.
Speaker: I don't know, Scott.
Speaker: We'll figure it out.
Speaker: It'd be fun to do some video.
Speaker: These guys are pushing us.
Speaker: Yeah, I think that pretty much sums it up for us.
Speaker: Give us the last word, Scott.
Speaker: See you on Triple Drain.
Speaker: Shut up and sit down.
