Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Chatsunami, a Scottish variety podcast that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime in general interest. Join me, your host, Satsunami, as well as the rest of our Chatsunami team for our takes on these very important pop culture topics. Sir, it's clearly a trap. I accept copyright! That happens three times in the film. Every time that general goes, don't do this one thing, he goes, do you know what I'ma do? That's exactly...
Speaker: It does as well. She had the pointy teeth. What was that about? She looked like Bilbo when he wants the ring back. but She turned into it. I just want the lightsaber one more time. Parasite says, no, you will get back into your office and work. No, says the man in Zoom. yeah Trousers are for the working man. You're bursting into your hotel room. Honey, we need to go.
Speaker: Leave the kids. You can milk an otage. Oh.
Speaker: That's the worst thing you've ever said on any of the episodes. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out at our website, chattsunami.com, as well as all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
Speaker: Stay classy and have banana. This has been chattsunami. I'm sorry.
Speaker: Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. My name's Chatsunami and joining me today is a very special guest. It is none other than the one and only Christian Haig of the Three Names Workshop.
Speaker: Christian, welcome to Chatsunami. Thanks for having me. How are you doing tonight? I'm okay. I'm good. Honestly, I've been looking forward to this for a while now because I just, I've been really enjoying what I've heard from your show and I feel like, especially when spending a lot of time on threads, I love interacting with your page a lot, a lot of the stuff, seeing the stuff that you're doing, you know, and obviously kind of seeing the people you're talking to is very exciting. So I'm good trying to turn off my brain, you know, from work because I have a full-time job, but it's nice to kind of take a step back and being like, you know what, I'm going have some fun and we'll... Have a nice chat tonight, so I'm excited. The same goes right back at you, especially on threads, because I remember seeing your, and we'll get into it later, of course, but I remember seeing your cosplay content and things, and I thought, wow, this is fantastic, that's fantastic, and pulling the curtain back a wee bit, because this is a... probably a month or two in the making, I think. Yeah. Because, yeah, for those who don't know, if you go to chatsanami.com, our website, you can see there is a contact page. And I really have to get, and probably by this episode, I'll have one up.
Speaker: So feel free to check that out chatsanami.com. But there's a contact page where if any pandalorians any listeners when they reach out to us then they can do that and i remember for the most part there's a lot of very strange emails i get i don't think i told you this it's like people who say oh we think we would be a great fit for your podcast or oh we can you know the bots and things or we can promote you we can exactly organic growth that's a big one etc so when i was reading yours initially i was like oh great here's another one And then I was like, wait a minute. I actually recognize the names. Wait a second. Yeah, I didn't want it. It's so funny because like, i love interacting with your content. I love seeing your posts, the stuff that you're posting. And it's one of those things where given the state of social media, given the state of everything happening, you know, it's nice to kind of have that connection. And that's kind of like, I had just finished doing a podcast with this great older couple. what are they called? The spaceman and the halfling. I think what they're called. They're very sweet. And I was just like, really kind of in this mode of like, I just want to like connect with content creators and podcasts and just kind of talk about things, right? This nerd out and thing. And I think I've kind of slowly starting to see that. But I was just like, it's so funny, because it's one thing to reach out to somebody like a cold call versus actually somebody you're engaged with, you know, and I think that for me was a lot of the reasons why and, you know, again, I know having a website in general is always interesting to see the people that reach out to you like, hey, You have a spelling error on your website. Let me help you. know It's very, very scammy. And I was like, oh, God, you know I hope I don't come up. But it's at least you know we have that quote unquote pre-existing relationship you know through socials. So it's very hard to kind of see what's real, what's not real these days, especially. So yeah, no, 100%. it. Yeah, I genuinely breathed a sigh of relief when I recognised the name and then I saw your page and I was like, oh, thank God, I know this person. Right, exactly. At least it's not like a bot or anything. Well, I'm assuming you're a Simpsons fan. Oh yeah, of course. Do you ever remember the scene, and it's such an obscure scene, I don't the why it's come to mind, but it's the one where Troy McClure is on PBS and he's doing the phone-ins for the donations? Yes. Yes. He's walking up and he's like, if you phone in today, you know, you'll help PBS. And the phone actually rings and he goes, what the hell? Yeah, it's like, what the hell? Yeah, and he's like, oh, we have a caller. That's exactly how it felt. I'm reading it going, what the hell? I was like, oh. Yeah, exactly. Oh, wait a minute. is Something's actually happening. because i'm just so used to see reaching out to people making sure that and it sounds like such a weird thing but it's trying to be selective in who you get on for the podcast because some people i've talked to and i thought oh they're quite nice and everything they've got great content and then they put out the wrong tweet or the wrong whatever i'm not trying to judge people but there's a certain line that they might cross where i'm like no that really doesn't align you know with chat tsunami and everything. I don't like the direction or their interaction. And again, you know, i'm not policing their content or anything. No, no. It's like, I knew with your stuff, you know, you do fantastic stuff. i appreciate that. Thank you. Because I think the thing that that caught my eye initially was, and correct me if I'm wrong, was it the Homer Simpson film? Yeah, it's so funny you mentioned that because I honestly am really happy that you're saying all these things because I felt like the same way. I was like, this is really great because I have tried. I'm not like a big content creator. I do a lot of the stuff for fun. But for me, whenever I do something like the cosplay stuff, right, the cosplay stuff I haven't been doing for very long. i mean probably, well, it's on and off, right? So funny you talk about the Homer Simpson one because I did that one many moons ago. I did that initially and the first iteration of it was a hit, right? And not much has changed between this version and the next version because the original version, you know, when you're first starting out in cosplay, you're kind of learning what you're doing. I was like, okay, well, Homer Simpson, how do we do that? Okay, yellow, the hair, and then we had the donut range finder, and then the bowling pin, all those markers. And then I think I had the backpack and, you know, the Duff bottles and everything like that. I think the first iteration the backpack was made out of one of those old, like old, but the plastic kickboards that you'd have, you'd putting the ocean. So my wife and I, who's big shout out to her because she's really helped make these things become a reality. So I felt like many years had passed since I had done a lot more cosplay. And I was like, oh my God, this one, it's due for an update. So now we have a 3D printer we got a while ago during COVID. So a lot of the stuff is now 3D printed, looking up how to build frame backpacks from PVC. You know, it's all these things you start picking up and learning. But yeah, that one I felt really happy to kind of bring back. And I'm glad it caught your eye because that one was still timeless, right? With just like, I feel Simpsons, no matter how long or how many fans you get, it's immediately recognizable.
Speaker: And that I think was one of my favorite ones. Plus, you know, I'm super comfortable in it as well. So I think that's always a key with cosplay. So no, yeah, it's a good one. I like that one a lot. I think the thing that really caught my eye, and this is genuinely how much of a Simpsons nerd I am, is just, as you were saying, just the small details on it, because it would be one thing if you just painted Mandalorian helmet, you know, just as Homer Simpson, and you had the Homer Simpson. Like, that was great on its own. But as you said, you had the grown-up Wayfinder and everything, and you had the backpack, and I was like, all right, what is in the backpack? And it was things like you had the duff bottles, you had the hedge as well. Yeah, the hedge. I'm glad you picked up on that. The other thing that really, I think this is what took me over the edge in terms of saying this is incredible because i actually sent the picture to one of my friends who is also a massive Sunsys fan. I'm like, look at how cool this is. Because you also had, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but was it the Wonderbat as well? Yeah, I had the Wonderbat as the rocket. ahha And then the death bottles, right, were the, I guess, the boosters or whatever. And then, i don't know if you saw, because the first iteration, I just had one gauntlet. It was just a remote control. Yeah. And then I was like, well, I got to balance it out this time. So I 3D printed another one and I did the carbon rod 24 goes to space. I was like, that's such a simple little nod. And the hedge, I'm so glad you picked up on the hedge because it comes from a meme. Again, it evolved so much from this like, oh, you know, Doe Buffett, Homer Simpson, Homer Fett. And was funny you mentioned that because when I first did it, I was because there's several Comic Cons out here, like Boston Comic Con, one of the bigger ones. And I went to that one. And one of those artists that I follow was like, Oh, my God, I saw you on Reddit. And that's kind of the point where I didn't realize sometimes stuff I do goes viral. And I was just like, so taken aback. But like, I think I was under the section, great idea, poorly executed. But it was like, everybody was commenting being like, how great it was. They had posted my picture but i just it was such a weird place to put it when I was like everyone's really positive why do you think this but everybody was like saying oh this shouldn't be here this is really great but it was such a weird weird I have moments where cosplays will go viral that's fine but that was a weird one where somebody that I knew that I followed was like this I saw this on reddit and it was just like the most bizarre interaction I've had with that stuff and so yeah it is definitely one of many that I've kind of taken a look at and been like how can I upgrade this right And I think we're good where it is right now. don't need to do me my changes. so Because it's funny you mentioned getting spotted at Comic-Con because I remember, and obviously like I'm not as prominent online, I think ironically enough, the only real pictures of me other than the ones that my friend and I like to say, well, Mike Wazowski'd me. So he'll hold up something in front of my face when I'm taking a picture with him or whatever. Or I've got the Mandalorian helmet that I've painted it on, which is a very weird coincidence. Yeah. Yes, yes. I was like, if I had a penny for every time I met someone with a Mandalorian helmet. But yeah, it's like the only time I've ever had that at Comic Con Power Con over in Glasgow. And I usually love going around see the artist alley and things because love, you know, supporting them and everything and being able to hand out my card, being i'm like, well, yeah, you know, I'm a podcaster, blah, blah, blah. Here's a free sticker. And I went up to one stall. And the person turned around and went, oh my god, are you the podcast guy? And I was like, oh.
Speaker: Yeah, oh my goodness. yeah I don't know how to feel about that. I was like, I hope that's a good thing. And they're like, yeah, yeah, no, it's good. But do you get that quite a lot. See, other than the... Yeah. I mean, randomly, again, I'm not trying to be the next big cosplayer. I just, a lot of what I do is, I mean, I do for fun. And honestly, I have so much respect for people who are doing the grind and really trying to work hard. And, you know, that's the thing, like, that is what they do. That is what they want to do. And I think it's amazing to see the work that people put in costumes, just the amount. But I'm honestly, I'm happy just to make someone laugh. I did like a mashup of Thor and Mario, Thoreo. And I think it was during a con that was, it was at PAX, which is, you know, the Penny Arcade. that i mean, if you're ever going to come to the States for a convention, that would be up your alley. But I think that was so bizarre when people were like, oh, there was a Loki, someone dressed up as Loki being like, oh, I heard about, I've been looking for you. You know, that's when I realized that that has had that effect. It's not just like, you know, I heard about you or, oh, I saw you online. It was more like, oh, a friend of mine saw you and told me to find you. It was kind of like, that is very strange but kind of cool right it just it was within this kind of ecosystem of that convention and to me that makes me so happy and i think that happens a lot that'll happen i'm sure you've seen it with star trek one right my qatarian game oh part one yeah yeah that one that one gets a lot of yeah Yeah, no, I totally agree, because was going to actually bring that up. See, when I saw that one as well, i was like, I genuinely don't think I've ever seen anyone cosplay this, but it is fantastic. Thank you. Immediately, as soon as I saw it, I was like, is that from the TNG episode when they the game exactly yeah people lose their minds when they well again it it just was like it literally started with me sitting around with a group of friends being like what obscure one-off cosplay can i do i'll do the game and then my friends were like oh yeah that's awesome and then when we went at their house we were were like oh let's watch some star trek episodes and that one came on i'm like well guess we're doing it now but yeah that one that's so funny because i did that at pax not blast packs and i go to a lot of star trek ones and that's obviously a hit like i went to las vegas a couple years ago. And then I went to one small one in New York and Long Island. But that is to be expected. And then people love it. and they But when I went to PAX, I think I got more of a amazing reaction by people because those video games and not a lot of Star Trek
Speaker: cosplay or anything like at those but the fact that people when they did see me like lost their minds because the reaction i think was on par with the um it was the quality of the reaction versus the quantity and to me that made me so happy because people heard about it like people know about it i've go to enough of these now multiple times with that cosplay that people recognize me and that's fine but it was just so crazy to see the reaction was stronger than probably i'd than i got at most star trek themed conventions But I think just again, and then we had made updates to it too. We had make it move as well. So that is another one where we're big shout out to my wife again to kind of help me realize that project. But yeah, it's strange to kind of see that. And again, see myself going viral or whatever. If I make someone laugh or someone say, I hate you, i think we're good. You know, like, you know, we're good with the reaction. And just that's a lot of reason why I do what I do, you know, just to make people happy. Because that is something that I think a lot of people really underestimate. It's something you expect when you go to a big comic convention or whatever and and you see everybody dressed up and you think, oh, right, that's a space for people to express, you know, their interest in fandom and everything. But there seems to be that extra layer to it that beyond the surface level of, of oh, that's a cool costume. As you said, it's the amount of joy that these cosplayers bring. The detail in some of them is just... It's amazing. Oh, it's incredible. incredible. I mean, I remember the last big-ish con. Again, it's run by the same people, Fan Frontier. Huge shout out to them, because I'll be going to their next one at the end of September, I want to say. But I remember last year. This is the thing that's so special about these cons, because never before would I have said the words, oh, I went to a convention where Pyramid Head from Silent Hill 2 and SpongeBob were walking around Silent And it was genuinely, it was this huge, towering cosplayer. And I thought, oh my god, that is so cool. But it's like, just the amount of joy that a lot of these cosplayers bring. And it doesn't matter whether, you know, they're completely on another level, that they're indistinguishable from the actual characters they're cosplaying, or... Whether it's someone who's just ordered a costume online, they come as this character. it is just absolutely fantastic to see. Yeah. I genuinely have such respect for cosplayers, yourself included. Oh, thank you. I genuinely cannot imagine how much effort. And as I said, you know, I was absolutely fanboying out about your Mandalorian adivariate. but it's just amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Again, the feedback and the compliments, I really appreciate it because, you know, it is a hobby. It is not a cheap hobby, as oh yeah I'm sure a lot of cosplayers will tell you. But I was a theater kid. You know, I did a lot of theater and I grew up doing musical theater. very musical, very artistic. It felt like a maybe...
Speaker: I forget, 2009, I don't remember, but it was some time ago that I decided that this was something really cool. I think I watched an episode of Project Runway with my now wife and I was like, oh my God, this is so cool. But like the effort and the dedication that these cosplayers, that's amazing to me. I see these cosplayers, these big cosplayers just doing this and obviously there's just so much love behind it but i think it's for when people see they react like they get the reaction i think it's definitely some sort of extra level of connection they have you know with not only the character but also just with the ip right with the story or whatever but i think for me that is if i can make someone smile or a cosplayer is out there making people smile and doing whatever like you're right the detail I shouldn't put myself down, but at the same time, there are people out there who are far more skilled and far more patient than I am when it comes to certain things. I kind of use the skills that I do have and do the best I can, you know, keep it really simple for me. But big, elaborate costumes with the LEDs and the smoke effects and just me putting on a Mando armor or Mando cosplay is, I think, the peak for me. That is my level of comfort. I don't think I'll be in these giant, I think there was a giant Galactus that we saw. i think it was some really cool cyberpunk-y thing or like a Hulk or a Hulkbuster or just like a really elaborate armor. That is amazing to me, but I'm just here. I'm like, I will just paint my armor to look cool, I guess. But also, like, I have so much respect for you. Yeah, it's something else, right? It's amazing. Because I have to say, during the lockdowns, and don't worry, I will get back onto that for a second, but I remember toying with the idea, and that's the reason I've got a Mandalorian helmet. So i don't naturally know if i' spoke about this before the podcast so this is probably a chat so exclusive here but i remember seeing themanda wooding during the rodowns i thought oh that is so cool i'd really want to have a helmet and you know paint it in the chat czynam cover so if you look at the I don't actually know if
Speaker: and oderbesh on the side oh That took a while, I'm not going to lie. I had to cut out the letters and paper and then kind of use that as a stencil and like, yeah, that's close enough. And i think my neighbours and especially my family, they were like, Satsu, what are you doing? You know, I was standing there like, hey, you know, just painting a helmet and they're like, like Why? i was like, oh, good. But I remember thinking, oh, maybe it'd be cool to get into cosplay. And the first costume I actually did get, and again, I'm really pulling back the curtain here, was, have you ever seen Money Heist on Netflix? Was that recent?
Speaker: I forget. think it's an older one. It's the Spanish show. I know the name. I'm not too familiar with it, but yeah. so it's called La Casa de Papel in Spanish because it's originally a Spanish show and then they just kind of renamed it for the international release. And it's a great show, but the bank robbers, basically all they have is this jumpsuit and this Salvador Dali mask. And I thought, all right, that might be cool to, you know, start with and then I'll ease myself in. I never really got past that point, to be honest. yeah but i remember i bought a boba fett helmet and i was like i'm gonna paint over this and everything and then i was like this helmet is too good to paint over i was really guilty yeah yeah and i thought yeah no i mean that's the thing it's so funny how etsy and all these other platforms kind of allowed the people to get prefab like all the stuff that i get is prefab like it's raw 3d printed pieces so i'm already imagining it if you get one of those prefab helmets you put the pair ears on it or something or you know what mean? Like I had joked that I wanted to do a other panda, a Pandalorian at one point too. And I think I've seen that too. Like you do the black and white colors. Whenever I think of a new Mando idea, I'm like, how much is this going to set me back?
Speaker: How much time am I going to Because, you know, when you get to a certain point when it comes to doing creative things, what am I getting out of it? And what kind of commitment am I looking at? And that's great. When we motivate ourselves, we can accomplish anything. But it is certainly a process for sure. think the real question is a content creator who is in Boston, when are you going to do a Tartan army Mandalorian project? I know, right? I really want to do a Norwegian one or a Norga one, just like the red, white, and blue, something like that. Technically, Vikings don't have horns, so that's a whole thing. Oh, yeah. A Tartan army would be... I'm sure someone's already done it, right? Funny you talk about that because a lot of Mandos I've seen, because there's the dented helmet is like of big community. You have... I'm going to say this wrong, but there's the Star Wars one, right, with the movie-accurate costumes. It's the 101st or the 400... Oh, the 501st. The 501st. Oh, my God. No. Yeah, the 501st, right? And then you have the Mandalorian Mercs. So there's a lot of these groups that I follow, but a lot of them do sports themed ones too. So it would not be surprised if someone's already done a Tartan Army one because it's the colours, right? Because I'm always so surprised when go to cons, especially in Glasgow and even in Edinburgh as well, the ones I've been to, whenever there's a 501st, And it sounds so weird to say, oh, there's a 501st Battalion because, you know, they're cosplayers, but technically that's what they are. But they go there and then you get the ones that are relatively movie accurate. You look at them and you're like, oh my God, that is so detailed. And then you get the ones who have basically customised their armour. Yeah. They'll amend the pauldrons and everything. It's really cool to see.
Speaker: And again, it's that idea of stamping your identity onto it because it's something that, and again, I think you might be more knowledgeable in this regard to that. There's a lot of people I've seen as an outsider because every so often a lot of cosplay content and comic-on content especially always pops up on my feed and you get cosplayers that they'll be complaining about whether it's a drama about something or this and that and it's this idea that they don't feel up to scratch in comparison to some of them because of and again it varies depending on who you're asking but it depends on this level that they're getting exposed to and they have that imposter syndrome It's funny you talk about that because I try to keep my finger on the pulse of what's happening. I mean, I'm not, again, I'm not part of any big communities. I try, but again, a lot of it's anxiety, right? If I see a Mando in public that I recognize in real life or there's one, you know, I engage with a lot because I get a lot of their stuff from their Etsy shop, but Clever 3D Studios, I think. Big shout out to them. They're great. I get a lot of my pieces from them, but I'll run into them or I'll run into other ones I've met before. And that's kind of that relationship I have with them. Like, I think I've seen one that's an Aang from Avatar, right? The Air Mandalorian, I think, is, I don't know, I don't know if I'm calling it, but they had like the helmet with the arrow on it. And then I've seen the one who does, and are you familiar with the Final Fantasy games? ah The one that's a Moogle. She also does a Puerto Rican version of it as well. The painted flag and stuff. I follow her as well and I'll see her occasionally, but like I'll know them kind of. But I think that is like, I feel like you're right. There's a lot of, I don't want to say discourse in the cosplay community, but I feel like there's a lot of people, you're right, people that I think that they don't think that they're good enough or anything like that. But I think a lot of, when it comes to art in general, I feel like I always joke as an artist, what did they say? I stare at something until I hate it. Yeah. You know, like it's all from the core aspect of being artists where we never think that what we create is good enough. And I think in a lot of ways, I see cosplayers who I follow who are just so amazing and so talented. And it bums me out to see drama right in the cosplay community community when people can just, you know, why can't we just enjoy things? Why can't we all just get along? But I don't engage a lot in person with a lot of cosplayers only again, because I'm like terrified. Yeah. Like, I'll be honest, meeting people. And I think that's terrifying to me. But the people I have, men I have engaged with are just some of the nicest people, you know? But yeah, I try to keep my head down and create as much as I can. But whenever I see something post about some drama or something that happened, I'm just like, it can be exhausting, right? Out of curiosity, do you think there has been shift in perceptions for cosplay content? Especially, you're probably with me on this, growing up. whenever you heard about kind of nerdy hobbies, whether it was like Dungeons and Dragons, whether it was anime, you know, those kind of things that people, especially in the 2000s, they used to kind of look down on it and go, I don't know. Yes, yeah. Well, with the exception, if you were a child, i mean, when i was growing up and I was watching Dragon Ball and Pokemon and things, that was so popular. It turned to the perception, I think, on its head. But you know that way where these things weren't popular and then all of a sudden they became quite popular I agree. i think there's definitely like, it's so funny you talk about Dragon Ball Z and all that stuff because I grew up with that. It's the same thing. We were huddled in our quarters and afraid to talk about it among the other kids, right? Because we were always like afraid. And same with Dungeons and Dragons. I never played Dungeons Dragons, but I felt that was also something that the a whole nerd culture of loving things. Yeah, watching Dragon Ball Z, I've started rewatching it recently as an adult and I've been watching it in Japanese and i'm like, this is way more violent than I remember. The States, they definitely did not make this that violent. No one was coughing up blood as far as I remember. It's so funny you talk about that shift because I feel like not only has there been a shift of acceptance, quote unquote, you see Dungeon and Dragon podcasts, you see nerd podcasts and stuff like that. Everybody is really talking about kind of pop culture things, right? That's more kind of quote unquote acceptable. But I think not only has there been a shift I've seen where that is now, like you see San Diego Comic-Con as part of the mainstream, right? You see all these, kind Game of Thrones, like all these things, fantasy, sci-fi, all these things are in the zeitgeist, right? They're in, they're part of the culture. But I would say, if anything, there's been a more of a shift
Speaker: to monetize a lot of that if that makes any sense the idea that there has to be this need to do but it which is great because i think that's helping it in a lot of ways where it's kind of bringing it more to the forefront as far as what is popular what is interesting but yeah for sure i'm trying to pinpoint maybe that really started when don't want to say when episode one came out for star wars that definitely feel like that was still yeah that Maybe when 2008, 2007, when Iron Man first came out, maybe that was the first time people started taking kind of nerd cultural series. I mean, people could probably pinpoint it somewhere else. But when Robert Downey Jr. became Iron Man and it became studio, right? Because you have swaths of these little lips in time. You have Fox Studios. You have Michael Keaton Batman. You have all these things that were kind of sporadic. But now with a unified vision, people were starting to take these seriously. I don't know. It's interesting you talk about that. Yeah, it's interesting because a couple of weeks ago we had a whole month talking about Marvel when we did one episode at the beginning about the rise of Marvel and how prior to the MCU and things, the landscape for superhero films, don't get me wrong, they were still popular. You know, you had Spider-Man, you had Blade, you had the X-Men films, and even before that, as you said, you had the Batman, Michael Keaton films, you had the Superman ones with Christopher Reeves, you know. It was really interesting to see there were still... pockets where, and this sounds terrible to say socially acceptable, but it almost feels like that, that because these films were so popular, you were almost getting permission to like it, which sounds so terrible because nowadays, it doesn't really matter nowadays if you like, you know, anime or superheroes or things like that, but you're completely right. When 2000 and I think it was you're right it was about 2008 when iron man came out and all of a sudden people realized oh my god this is cool to like and it's the same with like critical role for example they really popularized it and it's something that you mentioned that i want to pick up on and it's a fascinating point there that it feels as if and i don't know how you feel after the lockdowns especially but there does seem to be this shift of people wanting to monetize their hobbies. I mean, I don't know why anybody would do that. Call for Patreon.com forward slash. I'm not here to, no, exactly. that's what you want to do, that's great. But you're right. No, I agree though. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. For legal reasons, that is a joke. But yeah, no, I cosign that. I totally cosign that. It does feel as if nowadays, though, lot more people are trying to capitalise on monetising it. And again, as you said, there's nothing wrong with that. But do you feel as if there is more of a pressure for people who are trying to get into a hobby to try and make it a business, as it were, rather than, know...
Speaker: God, it's so funny you talk about that because that is a conversation I have often where there's this enormous pressure to monetize. Like from when you get into a hobby, people are expecting you to like, what do you want to do with it? What are you trying to do with it? I'm not trying to do anything with it. I'm just trying to stave off the horrible landscape that is life right now, right? Any distraction from what is going on in the world right now. Again, I think you and I, have we've commented, I've seen posts, the whole conversation about AI, which is again, we can't, I don't, I feel like that's a whole episode on its own. Oh, believe me, we've done an episode. We've done two episodes on
Speaker: Oh my God. Actually, I'll give you a laugh here. I did it with the fantastic Marie from the We Needed Roads podcast. Fantastic person, but the only, if she's listening to this, huge shout out to you, Marie, but you know what's coming next, that we will just rant about particular topics. And for the AI one, it was about four hours of raw audio. So I just had to split it right down the middle because I was like, So if you go back, one part is, oh, the good side of AI. And by that, I mean, and I have to establish this right now, it's like, you know, the medical uses for conservation, that kind of thing, for outsourcing menial tasks, things that it could be put for good use. But seeing all seriousness, it's like there is a director's cut where that is just whatever. And I was like, oh, I cannot put this out, because it was, it was near enough two to three hours. was like, that was well over two hours, but the raw audio was over four hours. It's the longest episode I've ever done.
Speaker: Oh my god. but So we've got one where it's like, oh, the good side of it, and then the other side is just us breaking down, being like, AI is going to kill us. Skynet was so much cooler. I think that's the thing that ticks me off about AI the most. It's like, it's not even anything cool. Exactly, yeah. It's not T-800 stomping through the streets. It's not the cool visuals or anything. It's a person typing a prompt and poisoning the waterholes. It's like... That's so difficult. It's exhausting. Yeah. And again, that is kind of what my point where I think was that was we are, and that's the other side of it. It's like before there's this enormous pressure to put our hobbies on a pedestal, right? This is what we have to do. what was it? The cottage industry. We can make things from our house. We can sell crafts, blah, blah, blah. And I feel like there's so much involved with that. And I know people who've done it, right. Who've tried to make their career out of it. And some are more successful than others. Just like, I can't sustain this. Like this is not. But then you have this other level of AI where it's like, are we just essentially feeding the machine, right? Are we creating for just for it just to take what we've created and spit something becoming like Ouroboros, right? Just eating this cyclical thing. But yeah, I just feel like, yeah, you're saying a COVID and anything specific to that. There is this whole thing where we had to do that. And get asked that a lot to family members like, oh, you could sell these helmets. and'm like, why? This is for me. I don't want to do anything. If anything, I could give you advice. You know, like I could sell my advice about how to be at a Comic-Con, you know, but I just I don't for me anyways, I already have a full time job. And I think for me, it's a hobby. But I guess, yeah, there's definitely a push, you know, for anybody who wants to get into it, right, to get into anything. There's this expectation of them to monetize it. And you can choose to do that if you want. And that's fine. It's just for those who don't, I just feel like I don't think that we should pressure people into doing it for sure. Right. Absolutely. I mean, i think the biggest one, not in terms of creativity. Well, creative in a way, but baking, of course, took off. utterly during covid usually it's a relatively calm past time in britain where it's like oh we'll put on a victoria sponge we'll have cupcakes see nowadays this is how bad it is you know you walk down the street and then you see people are advertising and i don't know if this is the case in the u.s i'm actually curious to hear but if you heard of cake sheds before cake sheds i don't know so So basically, people are buying sheds, literally what you think, garden sheds, and they're baking cakes and they're just leaving them there for sale. So you can come into somebody's garden, pay for a cupcake or something, and then just leave. And that is the most bizarre thing I think I've seen in a while. I've never heard of this. Yeah. It's basically like a TARDIS for bakeries, essentially. It's so bizarre. That is so weird. Yeah, because it's like, it's one thing if you want to run a business of your home or if you have a garage and you convert it and you go, right, okay, this is where the magic happens and whatnot. But to have... literally just say, oh, I've got a shed, here's the cakes inside, help yourselves, here's an honesty box and everything. It does feel as if there is that somewhat push, as it were. As you were saying before, it's like taking a hobby. And don't get me wrong, I know that the whole world is in a cost of living crisis, like it's not just the yeah UK right now, but people want to earn extra money on the side nowadays, and that is absolutely valid. But there does seem to be that pressure that people are saying... Maybe I should turn this into a career because I'm wondering if I can't remember off the top of my head if you're on TikTok or not. But are you on TikTok? Sorry, before I go. I am not. okay I am just exhausted by the idea of starting another social media account. All right. I'm going completely honest.
Speaker: ah Yeah, I do not blame you. I just keep creating accounts, for throwing stuff at the wall because, irond ironically enough, one of the ones that I really didn't like using initially was threads because ages ago, when Twitter turned to X and that's just a whole cesspit on its own, and but I tried getting popular there and, you know, for a while I was. I was doing really well with engagement and things and then you don't have to listen to me explain the many reasons why it's just gone down in the toilet as it were. And then somehow I've all of them. think Blue Sky is alright, but it never really hit the same heights. But the Red seems to be the one just now where everyone seems to be engaging with one another really well, which is so bizarre. That's the one that initially I was like, I don't know now that it's gone up.
Speaker: But TikTok, that is a whole other beast. I am not a fan personally. of it but the thing that I do find interesting at least from a creator perspective is seeing people try to convert the absolute mundane and things that I've taken for granted in life and then they go oh my god guys have you heard of this or have you heard of that and I'm like well yeah that particular product It's been around for ages and they're like, oh, but we're getting paid by whoever on TikTok to promote this. And, you know, see whether it's books and things like BookTok, I've heard is especially bad for this, where there seems to be more of a, and I mean, this could be a whole episode in itself, but there seems to be more of a push for people to collect. things now, but not in the sense of that they want to collect it because they want that particular thing. You've probably been sick of seeing me post about retro gaming on trades where- Oh god, no, no, no, no. I'm going to tell you right now, oh no, you're talking about video games. How dare you? The amount, honestly, I've been on that. Maybe this is my midlife crisis. I'm only in my This is my midlife crisis where I'm like, oh my god, I found Resident Evil Nemesis and everything. Or I found this game and that game. And I love doing it because I love gaming so much. But then you see people who are collecting these things, and especially with Pokemon as well, where it's like they're collecting for the monetary value of it. They're not collecting because they love that. They want to. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You're right. It's so funny. One of my best friends, was telling him I was going to be on this podcast. He was super excited because I think you see him. He's Matthew Fillion. He's an author, but he is also a big nerd like us. And I definitely think at some point you should have him on the show because he has a full book series of young superheroes. And he has a book series about Dungeons and Dragons, Dungeon Crawler books that people who are transported, they get to be their characters in this fantasy world and they're transported and I do a lot of graphic design book cover for his stuff. But it's funny because he and I are very much, talk about action figures a lot. And I know, know, Marvel Legends, whenever they're dropping stuff, I find myself getting very specific types of those. Like I'll get a lot of the Iron Man figures and stuff like that. But yeah, I mean, I'll have what I call micro collections where I'll have a series of trucker hats or something that I really like that have nerdy connotation or random Star Trek memorabilia that I think is kind of fun. But yeah, feel like there's, again, going back to the whole doing it for the sake of doing it versus just having fun with it. It's just there are people I feel like there's this need to just collect because wasn't the scalpers and stuff like that, you know, get me started. No, I know, I know, Did you see that thing in the news recently where, think it's in Japan especially, they've got facial recognition software. Yes, yes, oh my god. bad does your hobby have to be where you need a state sanctioned technology just to stop adults buying Pokemon cards. It is very tragic, but also I feel like Japan has a better handle on how to handle that kind of stuff, which I love. I mean, don't know if you ever, I mean, if you ever dream about going to, you should go to Japan. Oh yeah, my partner and we've talked about it for ages because the closest we've been is China. You know that way, it's like you're in Shanghai, you're wistfully, I know it's the wrong direction, but you're wistfully looking over the water being like, one day! One day! I hope someday you're able to because it is worth it just to go, but it's so funny because I feel like there's so much... I forget where it was going back to the cosplay thing. But speaking of Japan getting ahead things, they actually work with, I forget, I'm going get this wrong, but I think they actually have a government sanction process to work with cosplayers or something. They have a cosplay representative who's working with their government or something or through their arts and culture, like stuff like that, that Japan seems to be like ahead of the game. I mean, yes, facial recognition is kind of insane, but also I'm like, well, that would make sense that Japan came up with it because they're in the future. But yeah, it's like, it's insanity. I see people, like people who are like my nephews who love collecting that stuff, people are taking away from their experience, right? So yeah, it's really sad to see, you know? The thing that kind of, and again, upset maybe is a strong word, but the thing that really gets me down about the whole thing is, I remember, and you probably remember as well when you were younger, that whenever you got you know, pack of Pokemon cards or whatever, you got it. is whether it was a birthday thing or a treat from your parents or whatever. And it was quite special because when you were collecting them, don't get me wrong, there was rare cards like the Charizard one, which I hate for different reasons. The reason being that I got my butt kicked by one of my friends in Sky. at one the time yeah it was not a good time i got the blast noise but i never got the charizard one but yeah it's like i remember feeling excited to open the packs and everything and being like oh i've got a cool one or i've got this and never in my life when i looked at these cards thought oh i can't wait to get this graded and i can't wait for you know a grade it's going to be worth a million pounds in the future or whatever but Nowadays, and I notice that with a lot of kids as well, especially when you see it pop up online, it's these very impressionable people that they're targeting where, and you know the influencers I'm talking about, I don't have to mention them, but the amount of them who target them and they say, oh look, if you invest in this you get all these channels where it's like parents actively encouraging this behaviour where they do opening up the cards on stream and everything and don't get me wrong see if you're just doing that with your children and it's like oh you got a cool card that is absolutely fine go for it it's great to have a hobby with them but to encourage that and then be like oh we've got to put it in a sleeve and then we're gonna go and get it graded and everything it's so depressing seeing kids run around see comic-con and they've got the cards and the big plastic containers as if they stole it off the shelf and it's like what is going on because did you hear about the jason page thing no i didn't what happened oh that was absolutely horrific funny in a way like in a schadenfreude way but really horrible so there was this youtuber or tiktoker whatever who he gave these two kids this really rare graded card and it was like oh right that's cool of them but then in the same con jason page the singer for the english pokemon theme they went up to him apparently and he basically their rare card. So what he did was he had a card that he had signed himself, put in a plastic case and said, oh, this is worth hundreds of pounds or whatever, or hundreds of dollars, even though he was the one, you know, making up this figure. He didn't get it graded. He just said, No, it's worth 100. So I will trade you this card that I have signed, even though I think it might have been a fake card. But he says, I'll give you this card if you give me that card you've just got. So the kids basically got scammed and they ran back to the guy and they showed And they're like, oh, look, is this a good deal that we have traded with Jason Page? And the guy was... fuming he was like no you've been scammed and it was disgusting because it's like literally jason page has just oh my god i did not expect it to have that on my bingo where the singer of the pokemon theme scammed children out of pokemon cards oh my god honestly when i read the thing i was like there is no way this is the same guy and i'm like oh he's also into his crypto and things oh no i'm not surprised guys i'm just disappointed i know it is really sad to hear it i don't know what happened after that though if he gave it back i don't think he did which is such a shame and that's the other part of like i wouldn't be surprised if that's happened before not with him specifically but with other people who are doing that because also that's the other thing the dark side of conventions guys sound like we should have some sort of intro it's like black and white you just pan across like Netflix documentary. But like the idea that there's also this other side of Comic-Con. mean, sure, that's just like with every place you go to. But there's this also interesting thing where probably with the ones that are not as big or anything like that. I think my wife and I, we went to a, oh God, we went to this one in her hometown, this action figure, like vintage toys. want to talk about just ridiculous amounts of money that people spend on them. But there was this whole thing where obviously they have these old G.I. Joe figures and they're probably worth a lot. But seeing these exchanges of people like, oh, this is worth blah, blah, blah. But we've literally seen fights break out at these things over stolen. People are getting accused of stealing action figure out of the box or something. It is insane that I just was like, this is not real. No way that people would be fighting over this because there are children here and there are people who are just having a good time. But no, no, no. We're going to have some guys just completely accuse another one of stealing things. And it's not surprising in the sense that that experience is very jarring and in general. But to hear about stuff like that, people getting scammed out or whatever, it sucks. But also, I'm not surprised that somehow some conventions can be like that sometimes, for sure. glad to, well, in a way because mileage may vary depending on what con it is, but I'm glad that for a lot of con's nibbates they are clamping down on a lot of these practices and coming down hard on particular people who are misbehaving. That's the reason why I absolutely love working with Fan Frontier because they seem to have quite a good handle on things and when they make a mistake, they'll say, right, okay, next time round, we're going to fix it, we're going to do this. You know, like with AI art being sold, so they're like, okay, Okay, no more Metaglasses as well, which that is a whole other can of worms. You might not have seen this because it was more UK-based, but there was a thing recently where it was the Monopolycons, I think, that they were saying that they were banning Metaglasses. And for the most part, you know, you got the regular people being like, yeah, this is a great thing, which it absolutely is. But then you got a couple of outliers who were like, oh, this is terrible and blah, blah, blah. And you're like, hmm, why do you have this opinion? Yeah.
Speaker: it's like yeah yeah questionable that they are but yeah there's a lot of and know we can talk about the fact that a lot of these is fan frontier a big do they have multiple conventions that they operate or yeah so it's primarily based in glasgow on the west coast because it used to be mcm comic-con who run down oh i've heard of Yeah, so that used to come up here pre-COVID. And then what ended up happening was, I don't even remember why, but for some reason they said, yeah, we're not coming back to Glasgow. So there was this huge black hole where there was nobody there. aren It was a power vacuum, if you will. and i was like oh i wonder who's gonna fill the gap so this company they there were named something different before but now the fan frontier and they ended up filling in the gap so it means on the one hand that you're not maybe like you're getting really good guests don't get me wrong and especially this year they're getting you know the actors for mary and pippin from lord of the rings and the actress are names escaping me but the one who plays mantis Oh, Pam Klimkopf? Yeah, that's the one. yeah yeah She's also coming to this convention. Because I remember when it started, there was a lot more local celebrities and things. And then they started to branch out. And I think it's because they're growing that reputation now that you're getting so many now, which is absolutely fantastic to see. But it's a weird thing that MCM were there for absolutely ages. And then all of a sudden they were like, yeah, peace out. What mean? What are you doing? It's such an interesting thing because we have Fan Expo in the States, which is, ah well, in North America, I think because they do Toronto. But that's kind of, there was Boston Comic Con. And I think Fan Expo is that one of these big multi-armed things. I think it's, i don't know if it's ReadPop, but yeah, you have all these different ones operating. it It's become such an industry, right? The idea of an expo, like it's not a Comic Con anymore, right? It's an expo. And it's so funny because we have these last fan run conventions where they bring in pretty big names, right? Boston Common, you mentioned Merry and Pippin, but Boston is part of Fan Expo. And now I think, you know, the Four Hobbits are coming to Boston this August and hence why I'm doing my Balrog Mando. That was the only reason I decided that I wanted to do a Tolkien-inspired Balrog Mando is because of the four. Yeah. So it's funny because you'll see them touring with other, like there'll be another fan expo, but it's amazing to see how much of this convention has evolved from like just like the comic book. There's still comic book conventions, but a fan expo, right? It's no longer a Comic-Con, it's a fan expo. And you see San Diego Comic-Con, you see Dragon Con, you see Boston. It's just amazing to see how much of it's evolved, but at the same time on the flip side of it, because it's now corporate, because it's not fan run, there's always gonna be some kind of disconnect But yeah, needless to say, I've done New York Comic Con. That was overwhelming. In new York City, that was something else. But I'm just thrown by how big these things have become, right? And it goes back to the whole evolution of of accepting nerd culture, right? The funny thing is, And I say, oh, Fan Frontier is a massive Comic-Con. Don't get me wrong, it's big. But especially when I talk to my friend and co-host Andrew, who he lives in Canada just now. And he says, oh, I've been to this Comic-Con. And that is triple the size. You know when people say, oh I'm going to spend three days at this con. And I think, how can you spend three days at Comic-Con? But I'll look at them. And you know, it's like when they say holly, holly and everything, maybe for fan frontier, I mean, don't get me wrong, they do spread out depending on if there's other things going on at the convention. But you look at it and you're like, no disparagement to them, but size-wise, that is nothing in comparison to even down south in London, where it's massive or especially over stateside, where you're like, this is just unbelievable, where you get hundreds of people just flooding in. It's crazy. crazy it just it honestly seems like another world to be honest i think that one of the things i love about smaller cons because i've been to one and i can't even remember where it was but was in edinburgh it was a smaller con and i love that in a way because i got to talk to a lot of these stall owners and things because that is one of the things that as i said before i love about these cons especially artist alley and being able to see how passionate they are about this and that that's why i keep dragging them onto the podcast i'm Like, okay, it's yeah your turn. It's your turn. You get an episode. You get one. Loving my Oprah phase here. But it's really cool to see, and it's cool getting that kind of, and again, don't want to sound parasocial to say that personal connection, you but you know what mean, to connect with people, because I've been to model conventions as well for Warhammer 40k and other tabletop games. The last time I went to one, it was years ago, mind you, but it was in like a kind of community centre and it's big enough, but it's like basically a gym hall, essentially, with all these tables. But it was so cool to talk to these people who have been in this fandom for ages and be like, oh, this is how I paint this, this is how I do that, I love this, I love that. It was so cool to see and especially, initially I don't know how it's going to go because as of this episode, I haven't been yet, but I got invited to the Highland Realms comic Which I am really excited to go to because it's one of the first ones of that kind that's going to be opened in the Highlands. I mean, I say the Highlands, it is technically the Highlands, it's in Inverness, and a lot of Inverness people are going to be at me going, hmm. We are the Highlands. It's like the last city before you get to the Highlands and everything. thing So it is the Highlands, technically. So that'll be really interesting to see how that pans out and to be able to see, you know, the different people. But sorry, that was a long-winded way of saying I love the smaller ones as much as the bigger ones. But how do you feel about that? Yeah, I think for me, I've been to multitudes of different sides. Like there's one, Austin Boston's huge. New York is huge. Rhode Island is huge. We've been to Vegas. Vegas was not as big as I expected. The one that the creation net, they do all, I think the Star Trek ones that do like various other ones. But yeah, that was not as big as I expected. It felt bigger than it was. we were in Vegas, so it was a few days. And then of course, on the flip side, we every year we go to this little Star Trek convention, not Bonos, say little but smaller star trek convention called trek long island or long island trek but it's like this fan run little con that they do in the little hotel in long island new york and it's just out of the city and it's fan run and it's volunteers but they get some great star trek guests and star trek adjacent guests We just did a two day one recently because there was enough content to do. But I don't have a preference in the sense that only recently, maybe three or four, I don't know, three or four cons ago, as it were, like we go to Boston every year. We go to Rhode Island every year. But like the content of the panels, that seems to be something that we've been really interested in going in. Not just celebrity panels, but just interesting panels. And it varies. Star Trek, the Trek Long Island had a really great science theme, ah science experts talking about life on planets or, you know, you know the whole idea of alien life or or whatever. And all these things that we talk about, the evolution and like how realistic can these creatures be on Star Trek and stuff like that. It was really interesting. From an anxiety standpoint, from a, can I handle this? Like the big cons for me are like, I could do those in a day, right? I don't need to do a three or four day because I would just be exhausted. But if I'm like making the trip to go see Dragon Con, Dragon Con and San Diego are like the big ones I'd love to do. I've done New York in a day. I just feel like it depends on my mood. I don't mind the big one, but if it's too crowded, I don't think I'd have a good time. You know, and I think we all come from this place of how comfortable are we? And it sucks because sometimes I'll go to specific con because, like you know, my friend will table and I want to go see him or there's this particular civil celebrity I want them to meet or want to meet or I want them to sign something ridiculous. But for me...
Speaker: I prefer some middle ground. And there's a fantastic one in the Mohegan Sun, Terrific Con. They do it in a casino, like an Indian casino in Connecticut. And it's like a good midsize convention where it's not huge, but it's not small. And you can kind of do it in a day or two. but I would like if all cons were like like that, all conventions were like that, I'd be happy. I think somewhere between the amount of people and everything versus like a little itty bitty one, which I find a midsize con would be really well. And i and that's another one that's I think independently run right now. But they also run it the same weekend as Boston. So it's hard because I prefer to do Boston because it's closer. But the one in this other one's really nice. But I think. For me, yeah, I mean, it depends. But, you know, I'll sometimes just do a big size one like a Boston and Rhode Island. i always do because it's easy to get to. But if I do a smaller one, maybe it's worth doing a two or three day one. But yeah, I think the anxiety will kick in for sure if it's a larger one. But yeah, it'll depend.
Speaker: right but yeah yeah no absolutely i always remember this is honestly so humbling where i remember going to the fan frontier one i think it was epic con last year and that's over a weekend and because i've been invited by them to be a content creator like go around take videos take photos and everything you know and do an episode on it and be like oh this was great we did this we did that oh my body was aching see by the end i was lying there a monday morning like oh my body is broken You know, like in Lord of the Rings? Yes. Like, theatre, it'd be like, my body is broken.
Speaker: Take the microphone. I'm like, oh, and I'm only in my early 30s. Well, I say that. I'm closer to 30 than I am 40. That's all say. But, yeah, you're like, this is ridiculous.
Speaker: it's like When you go, are you doing panels? That's the thing. No, not even. I would genuinely love to be invited, see to do an actual panel in Highland Realms. I'm helping out with my very good friend, Martin McAllister, and Billy from the Scottish Wrestling Network podcast. Again. two amazing people but we are going to be doing a panel on wrestling or rather they're going to be talking about wrestling and I will be the support at the side for Highland Realms and I'm really excited to do that but for an actual panel to talk about podcasting to out about certain things I would love to do that if there's yeah any comic-con out there yeah that wants me on to talk about podcasting for an hour or half an hour i would happily do it i'd be terrified i'm saying this now with such bravado sitting right now my cupboard being like yeah i would love to do it but as soon as you put me on that stage i'll be a bag of nerves i'll be like oh oh I honestly, i say this, I've been listening to you, but I feel like you do very well. i think you have the great rapport. And I think it would be interesting to see because I can already in my brain, i was like, okay, first of all, when we're done, I definitely let my friend Matt know to have a chat with you. And then my other buddy, Brian, he is a sound engineer. He does a lot of video to digital conversion. He helps website design. He's like everything. But for my audio drama stuff, he's my sound engineer. But he also is a huge wrestling fan. So I just, I'm so funny talking to you about all these different things. But I'm like, you know what? I know people who would love to be on your show. But the thing about Long Island too, there's a lot of podcasters there too who are paneling. I see them up there with DS9 actors and Voyager actors and Ethan Phillips and and Terry Farrell and all these really big Star Trek people. But you could do that. And then obviously, like, again, PAX would be, if you ever come to Boston, PAX would be perfect for just to see, like, it's got video games, it's got RPGs, it's got, you know, tabletop stuff. It is everyone's jam. But yeah, I think, you know, again, it's because it's so easy to come to the States. But at the same time, i think the energy and the vibe that you have, that fits perfectly with a lot of these things I've been to. I'm like, you could do this. I'd love to do it too. But you could definitely do it as well. Oh no, well we'll have to do a double panel then to be like, let's take the interview live on stage. Because see the amount of people I've genuinely seen who do the podcast shows live, and they've only done one episode. That definitely, well I could do it practically.
Speaker: um whether or not it would land like it'd be different as you said it'd be different with a panel where again i don't want to be rude and say it's a captive audience to be like well you paid for your ticket anyway so why not listen to a podcaster from scotland but it is that kind of i mean i'm getting better with it have to say but it's that imposter syndrome you know that way where you do you look at these other people and don't get me wrong you look at some and you think oh yeah i could totally do that but then you look at some of the others and they're it mean, they're levels way above. Recently, I went to the Scottish Podcast Awards, and see when I tell you the level of imposter syndrome I felt going there, there was a couple of podcasts I was looking going, right, okay, I don't know them, I don't know them, which, again, that's not a slight of them to be like, oh, I don't know them, because they rightfully so probably had no idea who I was before it. But it was looking at the others who were genuine Scottish celebrities, and granted, I knew they were going to win, because... they've got a broader reach than i ever will have at this point in time but sitting there you know amongst that group and you're sitting thinking okay in theory i can write podcast award nominee on my cv which i have by the way i mean i was gonna say just add whatever you can exactly it's like in theory i can plug it and say i am nominated did i win it let's not go there but
Speaker: um Yeah, I would love to do it, but I don't even know where you would begin if you reach out to, you know, the organisers or things, because the other thing that i would worry about is taking the opportunity away from somebody else. And obviously the con would prioritise, I guess, who other people would want to come to the convention for.
Speaker: and obviously I'm not at that level yet, but no, thank you for the kind words though. If I'm ever in Boston, that's all I'll say, if I'm ever in Boston or at PAX, I would love to do it. Yeah, I see a lot of these people do it. And I was, again, it's so funny when we were at the one in Long Island, there was these two guys that I follow, but they basically, their panel was talking about all the weird Star Trek collectibles that they had. Literally one of them was like, this action figure was never in circulation, but this is the mold for it. And then this other guy is like, yeah, I have the marshmallow launcher from Star Trek 5. Enough mail-in points to get it. You could get a marshmallow launcher, a Star Trek 5 branded marshmallow launcher. And it was such a bizarre but amazing panel. But it's that kind of vibe that I think people, I mean, I think I went to an PAX and some guy was doing a panel on the video games of Star Trek. And like, yeah, they had a good amount of people there, but i'm like, I know I can count on my hand how many people can do this easily because if you find something that you're good enough and you know enough about, i think even starting with the small ones, I'm sure just reaching out to the organizer and being like, hey, you know, because I think even the Long Island one, there were dozens of these podcasters that I'm like, how do i get to? Like, how do i meet the celebrities? Or just being like a handler for a celebrity. Honestly, to get somebody, especially from overseas, right, that's a big to-do for sure. But yeah, PAX is a great one to start with or any kind of video game themed, kind of anything that you obviously, anything, any topic that you're comfortable talking about for sure. Like, I don't know. I'm just throwing things out. But I just given how many panels I've seen, given how many people I've seen do this, you have the right vibe for it, I think, in a lot of ways. But again, it's very, you're right, where do you even start? I don't know. But just email their info email at some point. But yeah, I think it wouldn't hurt for sure. Because honestly, I think in a lot of ways that people, that's how I feel too. People like, oh, you should go and enter one of these competitions. I'm like, oh, God. Yeah.
Speaker: Like, no thank you, anxiety. don't know, I think you would have a really good chance of getting up there because honestly, know exactly what you mean when you were saying at the beginning you're our own worst critics that would look at something for long enough and we go, that's wrong. wrong this is wrong and as someone who edits my own podcast honestly i'm staring into the abyss all the time i'm like god damn it but i genuinely think see the quality of your cosplays you definitely you would 100 blend in with all of them you genuinely have as much right to be up there as everybody else because i mean your cosplays are fantastic i'm not just saying that because you're on the podcast and b because the PayPal donation is cleared. But no, all joking aside, you definitely could kill it up there for sure. Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. No, honestly, it's the truth because I don't know if you've seen this as well. In fact, you've listened to me moan about it for five minutes there, but the amount of people that I've genuinely seen creative-wise where, you know, they produce fantastic work and then they turn around and they go, I don't know, this isn't great or anything. And then you look at it and it's like some of the greatest work you'll ever see. And you're like, really? This is what you're of putting down of all things whereas there's some people who and again I'm not calling it anyone in particular but you do see some people who they might not be at the same level but it's because of that confidence that they put themselves out there and then all of a sudden it's like yeah maybe they're not at the same level but because they've lagged their way up to that stage that that's why they're standing you know amongst these people and it's again it is really interesting to see that kind of dynamic and yeah i mean speaking of talented because this is actually something i haven't mentioned i mean you mentioned it briefly there about your audio series i've got to bring it to this because had a listen through to them and yeah no they were absolutely fantastic and Oh, good. I'm glad to hear that. I was waiting. It's like, let's not talk about that. You want to talk about anxiety? You want to talk about staring at, or in this case, listening to something until I hate it? No, I appreciate that. Thank you. mean, I was going to say it'd be awkward if I was like, yeah, I've got few no's if don't like it. It was like, actually, that one time. Yeah, you know that one line, three minutes and something like that? I just didn't. That felt weird to me. No, that means a lot to me. Thank you. Thank you. Because the three audio series, and definitely correct me if I'm not here, but there is all the hype, there's Onyx Ridge, and Unrequested the pilots. Say for the Pandalorians listening, can you tell them basically A, how you came up with them, and yeah, just really what they're about? Yeah, yeah. No, it's great you talk about that. So I had, long story short, and I think you saw it, I had grown up with audio drama stuff. My dad exposed me to a lot of early radio dramas. Dan Freeberg, which is, you know, he was a big kind of audio comedy. And then, of course, the Adam Sandler stuff, right? I think they're all going to laugh at you. That kind of the audio comedy stuff was really burned into my brain, but also my fascination with radio drama in general, and then voice acting and all that other stuff. So I dabbled a lot in voice acting locally here, did some productions here and there, did some small projects, but I really wanted to challenge myself and do my own thing. So I kind of first I wrote and completed a full series before the COVID days, as it were, before the dark times. I had written a full series, Tales from the Dragon Eye Galaxy, which is, I think, on my website, but it was ages ago. And I was like, oh, this is going to be a fun, pulpy love letter to sci-fi radio dramas, you know, a buddy cop series. I'm going to do four seasons of this. This is going amazing. And COVID hit and it just fell apart. So fast forward probably five or six years after that, I was kicking around some ideas. And really for all the hype was an idea where it was basically the idea is fans of a famed series or book series or whatever discover that it's real. Everything's real. So it's like a galaxy quest meets three amigos meets, you know, everything kind of that fun fan culture stuff. I was like, I want to write something like that. So that's how that came about. And I was like, I want to write this down. I'll cut out. I'll write out this idea. I was like, ah, I have this tendency, as you can see with my cosplay stuff that I'm like, you know what? I'm going to change gears. going to do something else. Right. I'm going to go do something else. All the hype was written with the idea of like, oh, this is a fun love letter to the convention, to the idea that some fans of their beloved IP turns out to be real. And then I like, all right, well, let's come back to that. So Tales from the Dragonite Galaxy was dead, but I felt like there was a lot of ideas that I didn't use. So Onyx Ridge was definitely inspired. So Onyx Ridge is a space Western. The latitorial fighter becomes a sheriff in a small outer colony town, right? And I was oh, Deadwood or Firefly. So there was that idea that came from that. So I was like, oh, this sounds like a really cool idea. I'm going to write this. And I wrote it. And I was like, this is really cool. And of course, once again, couldn't be satisfied with the idea of doing just one. I was like, I've never written fantasy before.
Speaker: So I decided to take a crack at the idea of doing a buddy cop series where a well-to-do by the book knight teams up with a charming, egotistical thief to kind of start, stop this, the end of the world kind of thing. And so Unrequested was born from that. And it was really for me a challenge to write that as like, I've never done fantasy before, but again, Lord of the Rings and... a little bit of Pirates of the Caribbean kind of thrown in there with that dynamic. So I had these three pilots that I was like, I really want to produce these.
Speaker: And it got down to the point where I was like, why not record all three of them in one day, like a psychopath. So I was like, let's get some. So I was so fortunate because fast forward, I've done a lot of theater in Boston, the Boston area. I had developed some really great relationships with a lot of these actors that I had worked with previously, friends, close friends, and people that they had known. So I was like, put us all together, let's rent out a studio. So we just basically, over a course of a 12 hour, 14 hour day, we recorded all three of them. So I got multiple people to play multiple roles. You know, I think there was like eight of us total. And from there, we recorded them. I went back and forth with my friend Brian, who did all the sound engineering with sound effects, just kind of found these royalty free sound effects to use, found some music to use, royalty free music, and just it all kind of came together quickly. So unfortunately, you know, when you write three of these things, you have to eventually decide which ones you're going to turn into, into a full series. So after having a bit of a listing party, i ended up deciding, okay, well, let's go with Onyx Ridge. So Onyx Ridge has now kind of become the series to write. So I've been kind of fine tuning it, writing multiple episodes, going back and seeing maybe do I need to tweak these a little bit. So long story short, they were really came up the idea that I was inspired by a lot of other IP that I really loved and decided that I wanted to write and produce three different pilots. And I don't know how I did it.
Speaker: I look back on it. Big shout out, obviously, to sound engineering, to my wife, to all my friends who blended their amazing talents, learning about production. i had done Tales of the Dragonite Galaxy, all eight episodes in one day. And I figured, you know, why not I do that again and take the lessons learned and do it again. So that's in a much long-winded way, I saw a challenge and I decided that I wanted to take it on.
Speaker: So yeah, that is really kind of the very short version of how these came about. No, honestly, I cannot wait to see what you do with Onyx Ridge, because this is something that, and I've spoke about this before in terms of podcasting, but I think it goes doubly for audio dramas, because there's another audio drama I listened to, i think it was Tales of the Wasteland, it's like a fan-made Fallout one, absolutely brilliant as well. And it's something that I think when they go into this particular project, they think, oh, right, it's a case of people recording, we just shove it together. Because I remember, like, and this is years and years ago, I'd written a, again, it was self-published, it's not that big a deal, but It was like, I'd written this book and everything, and then I thought later on, oh, why don't I do an audiobook version of it? Let me tell you, it is so much more difficult. You know when you listen to other people do them, and they've got very eloquent voices and everything, and they have different voices for each character, and it's so well put together. And then you do it, and you sound like
Speaker: this is something my friend brought up as well that it's a particular skill you have to have that you don't sound as if you're reading off a script and i think i'm getting a little bit better with that but nowhere near the level of either these pilots that you've done or you know these professionals who have done that and all i'm saying is if you need to like a scottish space rogue or anything you know hit me up but You know what? I wasn't going to say anything, but secretly I was going to ask you on all seriousness. It's funny you talk about... Yeah, again, there are people, as you said there are people who are doing this full-time who are amazing at it. And I'm just like, honestly, I blinked and I cannot take... Obviously, the credit is credit where credit due. Like my sound engineer, Brian, smart, capable, amazing, just works so hard to make this reality. My cast, my friends, who are just some of the most talented people I've been so lucky to work with to provide these voices and bring them... and tell me a lot of the same things. Like, this is great. I'm like, it doesn't feel great because I wrote it and I don't want to look at it. And then obviously, you know, having just this experience working in the theater or whatever, and not really writing a lot. Like I've written stuff, but to have something like this to actually see it come to life is so amazing. But yeah, any opportunity where I'm looking for people. so Christian, what do you do? I'm like, well, I do audio drama. and they're like, what's that? And I just go into this whole thing. We're like, well, like did you know back in the 30s before the days of television? And it's just so fun to kind of tell people. And then I'm like, it's like podcast fiction, basically. It's like a cast of people playing. And so I love telling people what it is because the term audio. Audiodrama is known. The term is known. But I think a lot of people, even in creative circles, like theater people I've worked with, they're like, Oh, what's that? That's really cool. So it's interesting, because there is this Venn diagram of podcasting. And then there's radiodrama and audiodrama are kind of all in this only because you have a format you have that's probably why do it so much too,
Speaker: bring people into this world i think that's probably why i do it so much too because Yeah, I mean, I'm happy with they are. i i know they're never and then Netflix isn't going to be knocking on my door to adapt it into a full scale production. But I look at it as an opportunity for people who want to get into it, who have never tried it, but who have some experience with performance to do it. And theater actors and people who've um been on podcasts or whatever, who are comfortable in front of a microphone. Honestly, if I could provide a space where people feel comfortable to kind of play and come up with fun characters or goof off or whatever, and then they go on and do their other thing, I'm okay with that. I'm okay with being that person to provide an opportunity for somebody who's never done this before, who's wanted to get into it and providing a space for that. Because I know that my thing will never be, never reach the heights of what everybody else is doing, but you want to talk about branding or whatever. Green Apes Workshop would be a place for people to literally be in a workshop and play around and then go off and become the next voice for something, right? So so yeah, I mean, it feels good to provide a environment for people, but also it gives me excuse to keep writing, right? Excuse to engage with other creatives and do this. But yeah, that's why I do it, I guess, in a weird way. And I think that is wonderful because one of the things that put me off writing and It's a weird thing because when I went back to what I was working on, I'd written this whole book and then I published it and it's on Amazon. And then I thought, oh, I wonder how much I had wrote at the time of the sequel. And I'd gotten like a hundred pages in and I was like, Jesus Christ, I should really finish this. But then you look at the state of, you know, writing especially. And I don't have to tell you about the Willy Wonka experience. to hammer this point in but you see a lot of things like AI encroaching into this space where people and again usually I'm not snobby when people say oh I don't feel like a writer and everything and it's like well it's absolutely fine if you take your time or maybe you don't have the same structure but if you're putting your ideas onto the paper then you are a writer absolutely if you're writing a prompt into an AI machine no you're not a writer and that is the only time I walk Never say to someone, you are not a writer. You're not an artist. You're not a writer. You can use them to, I mean, i use that very lightly. If you're going to use it to bounce ideas off, I preferably would say, please don't. But they're going to use it anyway, then that's the limit, I would say. But even then, it's a slippery slope. But all of these people who have...
Speaker: started to use these kind of things i'm like i'm not really confident about getting back into it in that regard but to see yourself especially and see that passion to continue this and to be able to say this is what you want to do you know to hell with the ai and everything right yeah it's honestly amazing to see and i just wish there was i mean there is more creators like that out there but the world well the creative world would be a better place if there were more creatives like yourself out there to take what you love and to just put it out there and i totally get what you mean there's going to be speed bumps on the content creation journey but at the end of the day as long as you're enjoying that that's all that matters Yeah, it just, you kind of hit it at home because, yeah, I mean, you find that, honestly, I know when I write stuff, like, again, I have so many other things, other ideas in the can, right, as far as concepts that I'm dying to develop. But one thing at a time, right, writing Onyx Ridge has its own challenges because it's me and then editing and then my wife reads a lot of the stuff and then I put in front of my actors and we'll we come up with.
Speaker: there's of that There are so many other things, especially now, you're right, with AI creeping into the space with voices and stuff like that. I think if anything, more than anything, we are now kind of at the front lines of doing what we can to kind of fight that in our own way with creativity, with the drive and listening a lot of stuff that a lot of people that even the dummy detective stuff, everything that I've listened to for a lot of things on your podcast, it's like there's so much love and creativity that I think is such a great energy But I think honestly, you know, secretly, it's really an opportunity for me to get together with my friends and kind of just goof off and have an opportunity to just record. I mean, the outtakes alone, right? Those are the kind of the best things we can get from our sessions. But thank you for saying myself so much. great. People tell me my stuff is great, but it's also hard because this is not my career. Like I'm not a career writer. You know, my friend Matt that I keep mentioning, he is an amazing writer. You know, he does prose and every opportunity for him to talk about what he talks about and any kind of opportunity for him to be in my stuff as well, because, you know, we kind of exchange our creativity, like I'll do his book covers and then he'll be in my shows and it's a great relationship. But just like seeing at the level that he's at and other people that I know is just something to aspire to. But also it's kind of with a cosplay thing, full circle. with the cosplay thing if i could just make somebody happy that they can do something or see something or be a part of something that offers some sort of a little joy especially with everything that's going on that's you know i've done my job and i think in a lot of ways with the audio drama stuff like balancing the cosplay stuff and dancing the voiceover and the audio drama stuff is definitely providing some unique perspective on how i push myself creatively and professionally you Yeah, I mean, I'd love to get more people, like I'd love to have more convergence of the two. I'd love to be able to work more with cosplayers who are interested in voice acting and vice versa. You know, that would be such a great to bring the marriage of those two things for sure. But yeah, it's just any opportunity to be creative and doing these things that I'd never, again, coming from theater, I never really in a million years thought I would be so passionate about and creative about cosplay and so passionate about audio drama. honestly listening to you speak there i just see the vein diagram between you and i like getting slowly and slowly way closer it's almost forming a circle it's almost there it's like a fusion as it were between you know yeah so absolutely because yeah i could not agree more. Ironically enough, when I started Chatsunami, one of the reasons, I mean, Martin McAllister, if you're listening, you have a lot to answer for, but he had started a podcast with one of his friends and then he was like, oh, right, why don't you start podcasting? And before that he had said, oh, I'm streaming. Why don't you try streaming? So I tried streaming before i went into podcasting, then I went into podcasting and all of those types of hobbies was a way for me to connect with my friends. especially during the lockdowns that a i could you know turn it into content but primarily for b that i was able to spend time with them that we have all these inside jokes now you know people wonder why one of my friends adam who was a co-host in the earlier seasons why he is a sandwich and that is an inside joke because we love the game deadly premonition and then that they have a thing called the sinner sandwich and it's all these silly things that from an outsider perspective you're like what the hell is going
Speaker: on this podcast but you know you go into it and then you realize all these connections and things and that is something i genuinely love see continuing with the podcast being able to connect with creatives like yourself these are some of my favorite episodes genuinely and again I'm genuinely not just saying this because you're on but I love connecting with people that They are in the same space, they are following their passions and everything, they get to come on here for an hour or two just to talk about their interests, to be able to promote themselves and everything. And it is amazing the amount of people I met. The dummy detective one, that completely came out of left field. It was actually an Instagram message, and I think, to be fair, the director had been sending out these messages to a lot of podcasters. I remember sitting there going, huh, am I at this stage in my life where I'm interviewing ventriloquist about this Detective Noir film? And it was a great conversation, you know. i mean, had another one where one of my friends, he had a friend who was a musician in France, and I was like, okay, I never would have been talking to this person unless I did the podcast. And it is honestly just amazing. who you meet through this journey and as a kind of closing point do you feel that way as well that seeing the more you do this whether it's cosplay whether it's the audio dramas that you start to meet all of these really cool people on the creative journey yeah it's so funny like again you know when it comes to meeting cosplayers and stuff like that i have met a few that i follow because they're just so inspiring to me as far as their work goes and I'd like to kind of keep those related. I'd like to try to develop those and maybe get the courage to go to one of these photo meetups. Right. I always hear about these cosplay photo meetups and I'm like terrified because it's scary, you know, just to meet new people. But yeah, I think at least the people I have engaged with have been super awesome. And one of my favorite moments was I did my, I think you've seen this, but my Totoro Mando. Oh, Oh yeah. And I saw the Moogle Mando and Pax. We both kind of did like the Spider-Man for each other. Like, wait a minute, I saw you. You're awesome. That recognition is really great. And I hope to kind of keep those, those have more of those moments, but at least with the audio drama stuff. Yeah. It's great to reconnect with a lot of the people I used to work with a lot of people that I did shows with and very early in my time here as an actor, but also it's great to have them bring in people as well that I've never thought that I would ever, I think because I was like, Oh, Oh, you know, because I did theater for a very long time. And then after COVID and everything, I kind of stepped away just kind of the hours and wanting to focus on other things. But I think reconnecting with those people have been really fantastic. But then my network got a lot of smaller. But now that I've had the audio drama stuff, people who know people write to kind of connect with those people. And I think one of my favorite things about that was, I think in Onyx Ridge, there's a character that I had that I envisioned as a man, right? I envisioned this typical character as a man. But when this one woman that I, who was a friend of a friend, read for the character, and she's like, yeah, can I read for this? i'm like, yeah, sure. You know, I'm like, I'm open to that. You know what? I'm not set on this. Let's see what happens. And then when I heard her audition, I'm like, well, crap. But it also and inspired this amazing backstory for the character as well. And I was just thinking to myself, like, I am always open to that. And that's kind of how I approach my writing. Like, I don't normally think of a gender in mind, right? But then when if somebody comes in and does something different, I'm like, okay, yeah, let's do that. So fun for that realization to happen to where somebody will bring something to the table and flip your perspective on something that'll happen often. Right. like when you have something in mind specifically whether it's like a character or the way you want to do something having people there to challenge you
Speaker: I think in a lot of ways, I can't gush about my actors enough, but I think if anything, that has inspired me to write more, to give them opportunities for them to goof off and have fun and bring something to the table that I never would have expected. I think, yeah. I think the journey of meeting people and for a long time being a theater kid, being involved theater, I had huge networks. And then when I kind of stepped away, the network got smaller, but I'm hoping rediscovering a lot of that. Like I hope I kind of push myself more to kind of open my network for much more and including podcasters from Scotland, you know, stuff like that. No one specific, just in general. Of course not. Yeah. Yeah. Scotland's a big place, sure. Yeah, no, just one specific one that I'm looking for. But no, being on this podcast kind of talking about this stuff made me realize like, one, I got to keep writing. And two, it makes you realize how fun it is to kind of talk about your passions for sure. Because I do feel as if in this day and age, and it's something that you talked about the beginning of this episode, that there is a lot negativity out there, especially in the creative space, that a lot of people want to have that sense of perfection. And have to say, if you listen to the early episodes of Chatsunami, I don't recommend it for your mental length. Physical well-being, I'm going to be honest. It's not bad. I don't think we did a terrible job, but compared to the way that I speak now and everything in the podcast, I'm a lot more fluid than I was back then because I had no idea what the hell I was talking about. And I had to listen back to my voice and now I just have auditory Stockholm syndrome. So I'm like, yeah, I know how I sound. I know what to say. But the progress that I've made from season one all the way to season six now, which this is coming up to the end of season six, that's absolutely wild to think about. But that's the thing as well, it's that sense of people want to get it perfect first time and everything, and that is never, unless, you know, you've planned it meticulously, which nine times out of ten, that's not the case, but everyone wants to get it right the first time, and it's about that progress.
Speaker: process it's about that journey trying to get to that point where you're comfortable and you get a consistent output and everything and i think as well that people have to stop being so harsh on themselves and they just have to focus on and basically a what makes them happy doing this and also be making sure that they're making other people happy because there's you know without naming names there's a lot of content out there that is very negative it brings people down and that is not what people need right now they need more of They need more Mandalorian crossover cosplays. They honestly, they need that kind of positive output because I've never seen your page on threads and being like, oh, right. And obviously, if you wanted to vent or anything, that's also totally fair. But... right You know, like I'm not saying, oh, you can never be negative, but I've never came away from your page being like, oh, that was thoroughly depressing. Oh, my God. It is great content and everything. And as a genuine closing point, you should be proud of the work you're putting out there.
Speaker: Honestly, it's been absolutely fantastic to talk to you tonight. Thank you so much. No, it really means a lot. It's hard, right? You talk about the process, you talk about not getting it right the first time. I think that's what we all struggle with as creatives. Again, i'm going to bring up this phrase, I stare at it until I hate it. We're never going to get it right the first time and that's okay. And it's going to take some time and it's been a really great kind of interest. It made me think about a lot about what I'm doing and how I keep pushing forward. you know and in in it I'll have good days and I'll have bad days, but I think being on this podcast, having this amazing conversation with you and right back at you, you have been providing a wonderful space to allow a natural environment where we can talk about what we love. I've been on a few of these and I've really enjoyed being here to discuss everything and It allows me to kind of really think and also motivate myself to to do more. No, absolutely. It has been an absolute pleasure talking to you and listening to you. Be so passionate about these particular things because it is. It's always so de refreshing to hear people just, as I said, take an hour word or two just to say, this is what I'm working on. absolutely love this. I love that. Because, I mean, that's every podcaster, people's nightmare where it's like, oh, so do you like audio dramas?
Speaker: Yes. And then that's like the conversation cuts out and you're like, oh, okay. How do I spend this for another 10 hours? It's like, oh no. But no, seriously, it has been an absolute pleasure having you on, Christian. Thank you. And before we wrap up and before we close off the show, where can the amazing Pandalorians at home listening to this find your content?
Speaker: so I have a couple of places and let's start with the obvious one, probably the website. So the website is three names workshop dot com. That is three dash like spelled out the number three spelled out three dash names dash workshop dot com.
Speaker: And that is just basically my encapsulation of all my different projects. you know, just an overview of what I've been up to. Again, this is just for fun, but it allows me to kind of have a place where everything exists. And once I get motivated to record the Onyx Ridge season, um they'll have more content. So yeah, and I'm on Instagram, Three Names Workshop, and as well as Threads, Three Names Workshop. And honestly, I would wholeheartedly recommend you go check out Three Names Workshop because honestly, the work you do, it as I said, and i'm not just doing this to inflate your ego here, but check too late yeah too late no in all seriousness it's been an absolute pleasure and i do think that if you haven't checked that out then definitely after this episode go check out his work fantastic but if you would like to check out more conversation from our ourselves as well as other episodes in chat tsunami then you can check us out on our website chatsunami.com as well as all good podcast apps I also want to thank our amazing Pandalorian patrons, Robotic Battle Toaster, Ghosty, and Cryptic 1991. Thank you so, so much for supporting the show. And if you would like early access to episodes, exclusive content, commentary tracks, bonus episodes, as well as my audition, clearly, for Onyx Ridge, for legal good reasons that last one's a joke, then you can check us out at our Patreon page, patreon.com forward slash chat tsunami. This podcast is, of course, a proud member of the Popat Collective. For more information, check us out our twitter expage at x page at popatcollect. But until next time, thank you all so so much for listening to this episode. Stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
