A Closer Look | Severance - Season 2

Transcript

Speaker: This is food! This is beans! crack I'll just give it to throw it to you. What did you think of a severance season two? We've been ra raving about it pretty much every week.

Speaker: Yes. Like week, week to week, but we just been talking about it in broad strokes. So yeah, um I loved it. I thought this is was a remarkable season of television picks right up where the first season ends.

Speaker: um And, you know, I had the luxury of watching Severance season one, like a month before season two came. I never watched it upon an original release. I watched, I think the first two or three episodes and for whatever reason, I just didn't keep up with it.

Speaker: And then I went back to it with my fiance, watched the first season. And then again, got super excited for season two, watched season two week to week. And yeah, this show is remarkable, man. um I think,

Speaker: from the acting to the production value to the cinematography, um to the directing, to the writing, everything about it is genuinely remarkable.

Speaker: And I think what stands out the most is how I think I talked about at this a few episodes back, but how a lot of shows lost is, I think, a prime example of this where you you start watching it and you just get mystery after mystery after mystery thrown at you with nothing getting solved as the show is kind of unfolding.

Speaker: With Severance, it continues to throw more and more mysteries at you, but they're not worried about, or they're they're not shying away from giving you answers to those mysteries that were given to you maybe you know three, four episodes ago or or from the season prior while continuing to kind of roll and and give you like this cycle, like this, I don't want to say mystery box. Cause I think JJ Abrams always uses the mystery box, make a mystery. You don't even know what the fuck's in there.

Speaker: and You can go from there, but this feels like it's kind of planned in a weird way because everything that I, you know, wanted answers to, answer too there's still a bunch of questions to, to be answered at the end of the season, but a lot that was given to us or shown to us in the first season or in the first half of this season were answered and, and, and, and provided extra context to it.

Speaker: um And i I loved it, man. That's kind of my high-level thoughts on it. what What do you think about the season as a whole? um Is there anything that you disliked about it? What do you love about it?

Speaker: i will say like it's interesting on like a viewership perspective. This is Apple TV Plus' number one show ever. Which is interesting. like So far, even beating out Ted Lasso from my understanding.

Speaker: like I read something like, I'm reading here, severance logged impressive, an impressive five, this is from Deadline, like the publication Deadline, is severance logged impressive 589 million minutes viewed in the US over all existing episodes.

Speaker: which is crazy. That was as of February 20th. That was of oh as of February 19th, though. So there's still there were still ways to go. But it's just crazy. like It's cool that that's that's happening because it's their most expensive show ever.

Speaker: um Severance was just renewed as well for season three, <unk> which is huge as well, which is cool. Here's what I'll say about season two.

Speaker: I don't think it was as tight as season one. The budget was higher. The production values were higher. The cinematography, they took bigger risks. they come the um Specifically, like the director of photography, her name is Jessica Lee Gagne, who actually, ah he she directed an episode.

Speaker: Yeah, it was episode seven. Chikai Bardo, I believe is the name of the the episode. I'm pronouncing that wrong. It makes sense that she directed that one too because it's the cinematography takes ah a twist, takes a bit of a turn and in the way that it's shot. It's really cool.

Speaker: And so she did a great job there. I think the cinematography is makes bold bolder choices. I can see where some of their budget went this season because they shot in – in some interesting places too, surprisingly. They did some great stuff. that Cinematography, even from the first season, or even the way it's shot in the winter setting of Severance is really excellent.

Speaker: I just love that. There's something about this almost it's a cozy feeling that I can't explain. don't know what it is. It's really cool. It's like they're always in like this... You don't think so? It's like that idea of like winter winter has this cozy feel for me in general, living in Canada. I just get that feeling. I don't like the cold typically, but the snow always covering the the various areas. There's this idea of like these plowed parking lots as well. that That shot is always like really interesting to me to me with the drone shot of the the parking lot of Lumen as an example, like the big corporation in the show. Yeah.

Speaker: um For those who don't know, I mean, how do you not know by this and by this point? I feel like just because severance is so renowned at this point, but it's definitely worth mentioning. Severance is about people who go to ah an office space and their their their mind is basically severed with a little chip that goes inside where you live your life and your your your life memories and your work memories are separated and you cannot remember from either side.

Speaker: And the coolest thing about the show, i I feel like, and you kind of alluded to it a little bit, is they ask a lot of questions and they try to answer them of the of the actual, but you you mentioned they're asking questions and answering them like Lost maybe did it and that they stretched it out for Lost.

Speaker: My thing is that they ask a lot of what if scenarios about what if that could happen. What if you could not remember your work so you could truly, and you know, kind of get home and relax because you're not thinking about work. There's no way you're going to get a phone call from work theoretically because you actually, it's not necessarily true, actually with this show. show actually in some way because you have to show up to work. But regardless of that, um that that aspect is interesting because they they ask like what if this could happen? What if you you were truly separated? would you Would you potentially love somebody at work? could you what What would happen if you don't show up to work? What if

Speaker: There's so many elements there that are really interesting. What if would you wonder about the outside world? What what could happen if you just like what you wouldn't even know on the outside? Would you wonder what was on the inside? And what would be the stigma of people who thought thought of you go doing this procedure in the first place?

Speaker: That there's so many questions try the a behind all of this. like The ethics, for sure. and that That's a good question. Why would a company really want to do it? What is the ulterior motive? like Are they doing it because they're trying to do it for a good reason? It seems like most companies typically in the world, corporations, don't necessarily do things that are outside of just doing it for the bottom line. So is that a something that they would be doing ethically and in and treating their employees with respect? That's kind of the the question. What happens on the inside and what happens on the outside for the innies and the outies as an example.

Speaker: So I feel like they did a great job at that. And honestly, they'd also philosophically ask the question of who are we as human beings in a way? On a philosophical standpoint, aren't we just our memories?

Speaker: And that's what's so scary about, as you mentioned before, about what is it called? The father to father, right? With Anthony Hopkins. Yeah, the dementia. Yeah. nominated for Best Picture against Nomadland and Nomadland won. But that I didn't watch that because dementia, to me, the scariest of diseases.

Speaker: Just because it kind of is who you are and you forgetting who you are, who are you then at that point? And so somebody who you know who gets that, it's it's very scary and very sad. And like, it's a big struggle.

Speaker: ah Actually, ah show that dealt with that recently too was the show with ah Ted Danson. What's that show called? Inside Man. Man on the Inside. Man on the Inside. Yeah, right. Which I really liked, but it it is quite sad because it's dealing with that specific subject matter, which is interesting.

Speaker: um But yeah, Aren't We Our Memories is kind of a... and like the other The other thing that's amazing too, the the the the composer is so good. It's so on point. Theodore Shapiro. So good.

Speaker: And the acting is so good. And the the situations they find themselves in are so good. And the the the wackiness of the plot in some aspect as well. And I don't know. It's just so good. Adam Scott like is basically the lead.

Speaker: Yes. Yeah. I think... No, I agree completely. And I think, um honestly, I think the entire cast is phenomenal. Like they all kind of oh yeah fall into the their roles. I think it's good direction too. Yeah, 100%. Ben Storer directed yeah ah multiple episodes. He directed the finale of season two, which is holy shit. Like one of the, but blew my mind. But yeah.

Speaker: You know, I think it's interesting because that you mentioned like this show is very wacky and like characters do really weird things. But there's also some of the most human responses to situations that are occurring with some of the characters um and just very real reactions to what what is happening.

Speaker: You know, just tip like literally lines just being like, what the fuck? ah You know, like when something wacky is occurring. So it's like some people are in on the joke where other people are kind of on the outside looking in. And I think it really balances weirdness um in a way that is not weird for weird sake, but intriguing and interesting. And again, adds to the mystery element of the show as well.

Speaker: Yeah, for sure. Sorry. Yeah, so all the other things that it dives into and asks the question about is how the science works of it, too, which is really cool. Yeah. Sorry, one second. But, yeah. Whoa, whoa.

Speaker: If I lost you? Adrian? Where did you go? ah Hello? Sorry, Simon. I don't know why my door's not closing. I'm trying to close this door, but it's just not closing.

Speaker: It's a haunted door? Yeah, it's it's haunted, Simon. You have a ghost. You just moved in. Maybe there was a murder in your house.

Speaker: ah we're good. We're good. I apologize about that. It's all right. It's throwing me off. but yeah but But yeah. But yeah. Anyway, I do. Yeah, I love it. The cast is incredible. I think that just this is a good job. And the the cast is just like, there's a lot of credits behind some of the cast's name, like John Turturro and...

Speaker: Patricia Arquette and Christopher Walken are big hitters. Christopher Walken closet. And they do a great job. So that's excellent. Here's what I'll say, though.

Speaker: This season, less tight. I said this already. I feel like this season... it I don't know. I think they, it feels like they they ran out time.

Speaker: It feels like they ran out of budget. It feels like they they don't they don't build the world in the ways that they should have. in way And they they feel like there's missing episodes. like Legitimately, I feel like there's like two episodes missing.

Speaker: And I don't know. Like specifically episode nine. very confused as to what they were trying to do here. I feel like that was a missed like that was a missed opportunity. The last episode is excellent.

Speaker: i don't i I love it. It's one of the best episodes of TV maybe ever made. I will say though, the way it ends as a season, not good. On a TV show, you're making a TV show. you got You got to do a little better on how you end a TV show, especially when you you seem to be taking three-year gaps.

Speaker: I don't appreciate that, especially the way it ends. We'll get to it. i don't I don't love it. It feels like they they ended it in a place that they maybe – They could have been a bit more careful in that they're making a TV show.

Speaker: thats That's kind of my thought process. I kind of get where you're coming from because my like but when when the show finished, my fiance was a little relieved where it ended, where she's like, I'm glad that it ended here because if we watched season one when it came out and we would have had to wait three years from that ending, it would have been excruciating. She's like, right now I can kind of wait for what's to come.

Speaker: um I actually disagree. I found the first season's ending less of a, it was a better cliffhanger, actually. I think this is a worse cliffhanger. No, that's exactly my point. that's That's exactly my point.

Speaker: Yeah, like, Oh, I thought you were saying that if we, Oh, I thought you were saying that it would be more excruciating if she had to wait after season one versus after season two. I think it's yeah excruciating to wait after season two.

Speaker: So that's what you're saying. Oh, yeah, no, she thinks that it would have been excruciating for season one because that cliffhanger is so good. And then you're like, oh man, now got to wait three years for the next season. Whereas this one, the cliffhanger is, again, not as good. she and finished awesome.

Speaker: I really liked it. But it's not as like... Your perspective of a good cliffhanger, I don't think cliffhangers are good. I don't like cliffhangers. I think the cliffhangers shouldn't... Like they shouldn't really, I guess, they' I guess you're right. Like you're hanging from the cliff.

Speaker: How far is the cliff down? Like you're looking down. It's like, Whoa, this is a long cliffhanger. I'm really holding on because it's a very big cliff. I guess so. That's a better cliffhanger, but I'm more like cliffhangers are bad for the audience.

Speaker: I don't want it to last forever. i this to me is a larger cliffhanger. than the first season. I liked the first season because it felt like they were going a place.

Speaker: This one, i have i I'm a little frustrated with where they might go. That's my point. I think i don't appreciate the way it ends in that aspect. because it to me I'll get to it honestly when we get to the spoilers, so I don't want to get too detailed on this because it's kind of silly. We're talking to a bit of a circle.

Speaker: Yeah, got fair enough. but But yeah, otherwise though, It's excellent. And again, like there's there's also the even just the way it was shot in the first scene in season two, just an incredible sequence that's very would have been very difficult to shoot.

Speaker: And there's like this is long running sequence, basically, where Adam Scott kind of looks like Tom Cruise. It's just so good. And also, didn't ah he actually say that he was watching Tom Cruise videos to yeah figure out how to run? Yeah. Yeah. And you can tell. And honestly, Adam Scott kind of looks a little bit like Tom Cruise. I realized that more and more, the more I watched ah Severance season two, don't know if you found the same, the same thing, but he actually vaguely does look like Tom Cruise.

Speaker: Quite a bit, actually, I found. But, but yeah, it's cool. ah And then the intro sequences are just the bomb. They're so good. They're just divine. They're really great chef's kiss intro sequences that,

Speaker: like They're creepy. It's unsettling. and's It's creepy, sure, yeah. it's like the intro sequences with the other Shapiro's score is just so good. And it's crazy. It's it's good. It's a very imaginative. Like, Dan Erickson, who like writes the show, like,

Speaker: Thank goodness he made it and he got to make this show and he found the people to make it. He found Ben Stiller who was interested in making it. It's pretty, pretty sweet. And um yeah, it's well-deserved viewership. So i'm I'm hoping they can maybe cut down the budget so it's more sustainable and then they can continue to do this for, for as long as they want to so that we can actually get a conclusion.

Speaker: But, but yeah, that's it. Is there anything else you wanted to mention on the non-spoiler side of this little review we have here? um i think yeah again i don't want to dive too into it um but yeah i think you know all the actors were standout we didn't mention brit lauer really or zach cherry um as um heli and and dylan respectively i think they add so much i haven't seen brit lauer in anything and zach cherry i've i feel like maybe i passed him in in random shows or or movies but also you is he also new

Speaker: Me? He's in you. He's also in Spider-Man, right? He's a spider Spider-Man guy. Hey, Spider-Man, do a flip. Yeah, it's that guy. And he's also in Shang-Chi as well. He's on the... Yeah, I assume he's the same guy in that. But he's in you. He's in the first season quite a bit. He works in the bookstore.

Speaker: Yeah. So, you know, I kind of passed them. But yeah, it's cool, like, to be introduced to some of these actors. And, but you know, there's the introduction of Miss Wong. um That character played by Sarah Bach, who I think she was 16 when the show came out. She looks way younger.

Speaker: um Sorry, when the show was being recorded. And she is a standout character as well. um And actor. She... you know Again, she's she's she's an adult now, but she was 16 when this was being filmed, and she played off all the you know very great actors. um Didn't take me out of it. I think...

Speaker: Yeah, i think I think this was awesome. A phenomenal season of television. i I tend to agree with you that it's not as tight as the first season, but I think it just it adds a lot more plot threads and we're following a little bit more on you know um not only kind of the inside workings of it all, but on on the outside work workings of of this whole severance program, severed floor and everything like that. So yeah, I can kind of see where you're coming from there, but I personally like...

Speaker: I mean, I watch them so close to one another, but like, I guess gun to my head, maybe this is, um you know, um

Speaker: a recency bias, but I think I like the second season more than the first. And I love the first season. So. Hmm. Maybe I can change your mind.

Speaker: There's, there's some moments in it that like have, um like, even like so you mentioned Sarah Bach, like it's interesting, like, I don't, it's like it' Sarah Bach is a kind of ah maybe an example of this, but there's certain things that happen in the show that like, why are they happening?

Speaker: And I, you mentioned that they answer questions, but I don't know. i don't know that they are answering questions as much as, and and as reliably as the first season. And I'll say reliably as the answer.

Speaker: Because the the way they're answering them is not as satisfying. And it reminds me of Lost, actually, in some of the answers that we get. Do you remember Lost? There was that weird like epilogue to Lost that they kind of answered some questions that they'd never answered before.

Speaker: Some of the answers we're getting lately, are cut they kind of remind me of that. Like there's polar bears in Lost and they're just like, they're polar bears. This is why they're here. And then explained it in like a weird way in the epilogue. I'm like, what is this? Like,

Speaker: What are talking about? don't remember that, honestly, at all. I thought... Yeah, it was on the special features thing on the Lost disc. There were some some some things that they never quite solved in Lost.

Speaker: Like, Polar is a bad example. Whatever the answers were, they gave them so many answers for... for what they why why certain things were this the way they were? Because people were fans were kind of upset at the end because there was no they didn't tie up loose ends. And I'm finding that the loose ends are tying up and not tying up. I'm curious if they're just going ditch threads because they so they're starting to get a little bit...

Speaker: lazy with it. It's not, but it felt like the first season was like a very tightly knit scarf, like very tightly. And this one's like the scarf's a little bit like it's ah dangling a little bit. Like they like, ah, you're looking at the the colors on the scarf, there's stripes on it. It's beautiful. Right.

Speaker: And then you kind of ignore the fact that it's kind of tattered in some spots. And so that that's where I'm getting here. And I just hope that they, it looks to me like they redid this season. And that's where the budget went. Cause how the heck do you spend that much money?

Speaker: Like that, that's a crazy thing. It's crazy. The show looks awesome. It looks beautiful. There's a lot of cool things that happen. That's not that much money. It's just not. So there's some problem there that happened. And they I think there was a rumor that they had rewrote it. and That must be why they obviously, it took three years, but yeah, It couldn't have been a smooth sailing situation. I think they might have had some problems.

Speaker: that's yeah But yeah. anyway Largely as a whole though, a great success. Incredible success. I'm just trying to temper the... I know there's a lot of hype online. Everyone loves this.

Speaker: And i think it could have been better. And you're a hater. Yeah, exactly. Because there's no nuanced response. There's only i hate it or I love it so much. But regardless of that, i think...

Speaker: It would be cool if season three, they could tidy it up a bit. And they and because they've just been renewed and they're renewed right after, or actually just right before the finale, that they can jump in and rewrite it right away. Ben Stiller was on an interview, in an interview recently, and they somebody point blank at asked him, so are we expecting three years? Like as a cheeky question.

Speaker: And he said right away, like, no, and no, i I don't think so. That better not be is what he said. So like that's a kind of a good answer. But I'm kind of like, i dude, you should just say it's a year and a half to two years as your plan here so we can move on. It would be awesome if it was a year like a network show. But I guess we'll see, won't we?

Speaker: But but oh if we're going to name actors, by the way, I should say Tramiel Tillman. Oh, dude. So good, dude. And also... okay I don't know how to pronounce this guy's name, but this guy's freaking awesome.

Speaker: Olafur Dari Olofsson. Yeah, as Mr. Drummond. Mr. Drummond. Unbelievable. So good. It's so good. It's really good.

Speaker: Those two... Like Tramiel Tillman is like, there's there's something. I like the side plots with the characters that know more. I've always thought that that was cool. Like the players on the inside and and trying to see what their reactions are and see them dealing with their own situations like Patricia Arquette in the first season and in this season.

Speaker: Patricia Arquette's character and Mrs. Cobell. And it's neat to see like what she deals with too That's, that's a different type that's your, she's on the inside and we're getting the snippets somehow they're filming snippets so specifically that we don't get the answers all at once.

Speaker: And I think that's, that's really genius writing. There was a, think it's episode eight. um that that does that in a major way. And yeah episode seven, as you mentioned too, does that in a major way. There's a lot of episodes in this that kind of they kind of do, not not what I'm saying, lu it it gives you the the answers, but it kind of takes a turn where it gives you an inside scoop of of various things.

Speaker: Yeah, episode eight, Sweet Vitriol is I think the one you're pointing at. but no I will... Don't get too specific. but Yeah, I won't get ah specific, but I will say that I think is the weakest episode of the entire series.

Speaker: but By far, personal opinion. Interesting. I strongly disagree. Yeah. um yeah I'm curious what your thought is. But yeah, like yeah once once that episode finished, like both me and my fiancé were like, I don't really like that one that much.

Speaker: Okay. Interesting. I like where it ends. but yeah in that In that case, the anticipation is is quite quite high here. So let's jump into the... umm I'm literally plugging my phone in so it doesn't die because my phone is my webcam.

Speaker: Okay. All right. Here we go. But yeah, let's do it. Let's do the spoilers, shall we? Sure thing, man. Ready for spoilers? Okay. I think Spoilers time. It is time for spoilers.

Speaker: A spoiler review of Severance Season 2, which obviously includes Severance Season 1. So if you haven't watched Severance Season 1, you should probably also not watch this. But if you haven't watched Severance Season 1, what are doing? Go watch it.

Speaker: Go watch it. And then we're going to spoil the heck out it here. Sure. for You can come back to it. But yeah, the spoiler warning has passed. It is time now, Adrian. What did you think of season two on a spoiler perspective?

Speaker: Yeah. I mean, um i mean, everything that I said still stands, but I think there's some really awesome, mean, you touched on it. So I want to talk about Mr. Milchak for a minute, who is in my opinion, arguably the great, the best character in the show.

Speaker: um And there's, This season does a really good job adding extra insight in, again, like the people the men on the inside, you know people that are in it, and that know a little bit more, that you know where where things are happening, but them also kind of struggling with what is happening.

Speaker: And you're seeing it kind of not necessarily with their... you know, what they're saying, but their facial expressions and, um, like, you know, how they are reacting to certain situations. So my favorite scene, I think in this entire season, um, there's a character named Natalie who is played by Sydney Cole Alexander. And she's like the woman that is essentially the, the,

Speaker: the person in between everyone that works at Lumen and the board, the board being faceless. You don't hear these people, you know, you don't see these people, not nothing like that. Are they, are they faceless?

Speaker: That's the question. I don't know. We haven't seen them. I don't think. have we You think we have, this is my criticism of the show, but yeah. Oh yeah. Fair enough. think so. Oh, interesting. So, but she's essentially the the person, the middleman, the middle woman, for lack of a better term, that will like, you know, let people know whether they can talk to the board or if the board's listening or what the board says.

Speaker: And I think there's this amazing scene where, um Mr. Milchak gets the promotion. Patricia Arquette's you know Harmony Cobell at the end of the first season um essentially is fired and then you know comes back and and you know doesn't get her position back. And and Mr. Milchak takes over her position to run the severed floor.

Speaker: And because of that, there's this amazing scene where Natalie goes up to him, who is a black woman. Mr. Milchak is a black man. And says, as... you know as you know because of your promotion, we want to give you a gift.

Speaker: And it is ah ah um album of pictures of Kier, who is, you know, Egan, like the the top of the Egan family, the person that made Lumen as a black man. It's like, so you can see yourself in Kier.

Speaker: Here's a bunch of pictures of Kier as a black person. And that is one of the – again, I'm a white dude. I don't understand. like you know I don't know the black experience or whatever.

Speaker: or They're going to say, i don't i don't understand race. yeah that's i heard I heard an R when you were going to say, i understand. No. I think you do.

Speaker: Yeah. like the you know I don't understand that racist experience that that you know black people go through obviously. But there is, she gives it to him as a black woman to this black man, and they're looking through it.

Speaker: And both of them, just from their facial expressions, they don't say anything about it, are in total understanding of how fucked up that is.

Speaker: How weird that this whole situation is, how deeply racist it is. and Again, they don't exchange any words about it at all at the time. It's them kind of looking at each other, almost looking like they want to cry, but have this fake smile on their face and having to be thankful for this act of unbelievable racism, essentially. And it is so well done.

Speaker: And again, I think Mr. Milchak, again, played by Tramiel Tillman, just conveys his feelings so well in just the way he looks at people.

Speaker: And it seems like he has, honestly, i'm i'm most curious about his character and why he's even at the company because it seems like he has... like true disdain for Keir and the Eagans.

Speaker: And later on in the series, when he's kind of reprimanded um by Mr. Drummond um for using, you know, like a vast vocabulary and kind of losing the control of the set severed floor, he's like kind of sitting through like this, this, this, this you know,

Speaker: I guess job review and like trying to kind of get through it. And then later on in the season, when Mr. Drummond is trying to, you know, put his foot down again at Mr. Milchak, he, he just stands up to Mr. Drummond demands respect. He's like, I run this floor.

Speaker: You just, you have to respect me. I don't care if you're my superior, like fuck you essentially. And then again, that kind of adds to the the whole disdain and his hatred for Keir and the Eagans is in the finale when he's, you know, Mark finishes Cold Harbor technically. Again, we're umre we're jumping ahead. I just want to dive into his character specifically.

Speaker: There's like almost like a weird standup routine where the wax figure of Keir Egan is there watching this happen. And they're doing kind of like a standup routine. And Keir is, long story short, all the lines that he's saying are... are you know, putting um ah Mr. Milchak down and talking shit about him until Mr. Milchak talks back and snaps back and has like, almost like, again, this look of hatred towards it. So it's like...

Speaker: He's obviously in this position. He's in there. But like, why? You know, it's it's asking those guys like, why are you dealing with this? Why are you there? You understand that this is all racist. It seems like you hate these fucking people. Like, what is happening? Now?

Speaker: Sure. yeah Now. It's character development. He wasn't like that before. Right? In the first season, particularly. Well, until that happened with the pictures, then he he suddenly had a reality check. That scene is so monumental with him and Natalie because they're looking at each other and they really like he's realizing that it's a problem. And then he confronts her about it late about it later because he's now having these conflicted feelings about...

Speaker: This cult, basically, it seems like Lumen's some kind of cult. It's a very strange thing, which is why episode eight is so brilliant, in my opinion. And I think the show should have been flow. I feel like it's too bad you didn't like that episode, because to me, that's like the most color we received. There's like a very, the problem with the show is it's it's it's a little bit surface, actually, the season. That was kind of my issue with it. But but yeah, no, that's, yeah. No, I feel like this is it's true. He kind of is turning on them in a weird way, but he also has to take care of the severed floor at the same time. But I feel like it's at that moment, that moment in the office that he starts to have

Speaker: conflicting thoughts about it because he he's he's it he's an ethical person in some way i guess he believes himself to be an ethical person i mean how could you you work there ah but but i think that that's the that's the thing but anyway yeah but even when he believes natalie um he's not necessarily saying like hey this is fucked up he literally says like i want you to understand that i am so grateful for this gift that i received and he kind of like He asks about it though.

Speaker: He asks her about it to see what she thinks about it because she he's like, well, we're in a similar position. What did you think about it? Right? That's what he asks. And he's asking her because he thinks she can relate because it's very strange. We both work here. How could this, how could I have not seen this before?

Speaker: That's kind of what i the impression I got is he, he's now, he's like, what the hell? And he's having problems. and not only that, but he's getting reviewed by Drummond and he's claiming that he's, he's using too like large, the word the words he's using are too large.

Speaker: I don't know. It's just, it's unbelievable. Drummond's like, it's like this big, like massive asshole. ah Essentially he's this dick. But I just like that, that line where he says like the bower of feculence is the, one of the greatest lines in my TV history. I don't know. And like what and then he looks at him weird and he's like, it means eat shit.

Speaker: I don't know. It's great. The thing is, it's like it's so hypocritical too because it's like what you can't – that's part of the racism but possibly because they always use huge words. That's the problem. They have a Bible that uses ridiculous vocabulary.

Speaker: So the fact that he's being told that he can't talk like that, that's – I think he's – the moment he's starting to realize that they're even more like discriminatory than he ever thought because what are you talking about he's speaking to – flowery you speak like that even in the last seat the last like episode of the season drummond is talking to the goat lady yeah gwendoline christie he's who's awesome in this character and uh and he's using big words there too yeah he's like he's he's using the he's using the word wiles to describe the goat it's like all right buddy

Speaker: Okay, cool. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. i really love the the arc Mr. Milchak goes on in this. and Sure, I agree.

Speaker: Yeah. and And yeah, like I think he is, in my personal opinion, like my favorite character of the show and and arguably interesting the best character. Yeah.

Speaker: But yeah, and also just the choreography with the dance at the end. the This show, it's it's been talked about online, is very reminiscent of, think, two video games specifically.

Speaker: Control, which is made by Remedy Entertainment. um A guy named Sam Lake made that show. Sorry, i made that i made that game. It's very... Visually, I think quite similar white hallways, all of that, as well as in control, there's like the board or whatever it's called um in control.

Speaker: And it is a very similar thing. It's like a box or like a phone call and you don't really hear anyone talking. It's just kind of static, right? Yeah. um so i think that's very similar and then um a lot of people were making kind of connections to the stanley parable um again kind of like yeah i think it's more similar to the stanley parable yeah and and for me at the end of uh you know see you haven't played this game but alan wake 2 is a game uh made by remedy entertainment sam lake the people that made control i felt like that choreography scene at the end of of

Speaker: or in the season finale with Mr. Milchak was so reminiscent of that game for me. Like, I was like, holy shit, man. It's ah God, it's so awesome. I love this almost like intersection of video games and TV that I think is becoming more and more prevalent and not necessarily like adaptations, but like from from the looks of it, um kind of what's the word I'm looking for? Inspiration, I guess.

Speaker: um So yeah, I really loved that. God, so good. So good.

Speaker: Cool, cool. Yeah. Cool, cool. Sorry, I'm just going through my notes here. but yeah, so I mean, yeah, I really liked Natalie. um The one kind of theme that that I actually started thinking about while watching this season as well is um kind of like the the theme of of love.

Speaker: as well in the show, yeah um how people, you know, i mean, the, the, the reason why Mark is, you know, started working at Lumen is because he thinks that he lost his wife, Gemma,

Speaker: dies in a car accident. And he, instead of living, you know, all 24 hours a day and you know, as his Audi, he wanted to work at Lumen so he could forget about his wife for eight hours a day because he's like kind of dealing with it.

Speaker: And the thing that I found very interesting is how love essentially can transcend severance, if that makes sense. But the the the thing with Mark and Gemma is, and or Miss Casey, who again is eventually revealed to be Gemma, like his wife, is almost like the the one thing that goes against that theory because you have people like Heliar and Mark, you know, obviously falling in love.

Speaker: But on the outside, when Helena, you know, sees Mark, she's very attracted to him. You know, she it's like she wants Mark to be it. And it's like, Again, you can maybe consider it's be because she's crazy and she saw that her innie is falling for him. She had um sex with him. but Yeah, literally.

Speaker: like that is like She rapes him, technically, man. like's It's kind of fucked up like in a weird way. like he took She took advantage of him. Yes, he wanted to have sex with Helyar, but i mean with Again, the show dives into the philosophy around it, the the ethics behind it, but that's not who she was because because it keeps on diving into your innie and outie are two separate people. That's kind of like the common theme of the show.

Speaker: So that was very interesting. but It's weird though, they spent a full date together and then he had sex with her though. Yeah. And he initiated it Fair enough. yeah it's like It's again the question of like are your memories you?

Speaker: And that's the big question. It's like yes. It's a tricky tricky situation but it's like the whole day out in that. That's an amazing episode. where there're Yeah, Woe's Hollow episode four.

Speaker: um I think they're out in the wilderness for that like field trip, basically. yeah did They just keep asking those questions. It's just those those what again it's just it's such an interesting thing. What if a severed employee tried to unsever?

Speaker: like What if my Audi had an affair with my innie without my knowledge? if the You know what I mean? what but What if the innies went on a field trip? like i did yeah I don't know. What if my Audi knew that my innie had an affair with another innie?

Speaker: Well, that's, that's the thing, right? And that's kind of where it dives into my next point, Irving and Bert, right? There's the, the, one of my favorite like plot threads in the first season is like this relationship between Irving, who's played by John Turturro and Bert, who's played by Christopher Walken and them essentially having this like romantic relationship that builds in the first season. it's very cute.

Speaker: It's wholesome, honestly. And then on the outside, you know, hit Bert Irving's Audi eventually meets Bert. Bert meets him. And then they have this instant connection.

Speaker: They fell in love as innies and now their Audis are compatible and kind of falling in love as the season progresses, which I found very interesting.

Speaker: But there's, I mean, there's different things that are happening with Irving simultaneously. He's having dreams that's showing him that hallway and the, the, the elevator, which why is he having that dream is, is such an interesting aspect too. We don't really understand what's going on with Irving. Like he didn't respond to the severance procedure as other people did. It seems, it seems like like that whole marching band has, has been severed. We don't know what they're doing in the background, but,

Speaker: there's are We also see what macro data refinement like employees are doing at home, and they don't seem to have the same same kind of weird connection to the innie that Irving has. It's strange. like that's a That's an aspect that's that's fascinating, too, that they didn't really answer.

Speaker: But yeah. Yeah. And um again, with Gretchen and Dylan Gretchen being played by Merit Weaver, I believe. is the actress's name, who is Dylan's wife ah on the outside.

Speaker: And she starts meeting Dylan on like Dylan's innie on the inside. And then them kind of her re falling in love with her, her husband and liking his innie because it's the best version of himself.

Speaker: And Dylan again, immediately falling in love with Gretchen. And it might be because he he has the knowledge that his outie is in love with this woman and that they have a family together. And he just loves the idea of that. But he also falls in love with her again. Right.

Speaker: um And again, there is that that aspect i I mentioned, like the whole Miss Casey and Mark S thing is is almost goes against that theory. But in season one, when Miss Casey is getting fired, I think she says something along the lines of like, for for what it's worth, like my favorite time in here was when I was with you.

Speaker: So again, it doesn't go against that theory. So like love, for whatever reason, transcends a severance, but Mark S still loves- You're saying yeah love isn't like- Because you have memories with the person that they're somehow going through the thing because you have strong feelings for them.

Speaker: Not like love as in like a concept that like, yeah, philosophically, well maybe I don't know. I'm not sure what your thoughts on love are. Maybe you believe that there's some kind of like a, you know what i mean? that That's yeah people believe that that there's like this destiny, like predestined test. People believe that I don't personally believe that I think love is kind of an action and in a large way.

Speaker: And so I'm not maybe believe I know a lot of people. feeling like love is a destiny. Yeah. It's not destiny. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. But I thought maybe you thought that maybe perhaps too. But like that's yeah, it's interesting because they've they've felt they've they've been with each other for so long.

Speaker: like mark Mark doesn't get to spend time with Miss Casey. no No. She's barely a character. She was a part-time employee at Lumen while she was there in season one. So it's really... If they had given them more of a but...

Speaker: yeah they if they had given them more of a chance but Miss Cobell was trying to push that. And that's kind of when she was pushed out, they didn't do that anymore. That's not like it's, she's such a fascinating character because her agenda is very intriguing because we don't really know what she's about.

Speaker: What is she going to do? What is, what is she really going to do? She seemed to want to go back to them. And the fact that she literally created severance is probably the biggest reveal in the entire show. That's why episode eight to me is a great episode. And also the way it's shot, it's shot somewhere in Canada. I think it was New Brunswick or,

Speaker: I can't remember now where it was, but it's beautifully shot, just gorgeous. And so it's just so interesting that, and you can see the cult-like aspect of Lumen. You finally kind of, they're pulling the blinds off of this. That was to me the most revealing episode probably of the entire series.

Speaker: Yeah, no, I do agree with you. I think it reviewed a lot. Yeah. And again, yeah, showing that Miss Cobell, again, created the severance program and that Lumen essentially was using child labor um and drugging these kids to make them work harder and ruining like a small town entirely is very interesting.

Speaker: I just felt that that episode, although it had a lot of reveals, um I think it ended in a good place was ultimately my my least favorite out of you know the 19 episodes that i that I've watched. And I felt like it was want to say boring because that's not really it it but it just it felt off. I don't know. I didn't love that episode.

Speaker: And yeah, my fiance kind of felt the same way. um But yeah, 100%, man, they revealed a bunch of shit in that episode where I was like oh, fuck, that's crazy. And again, I really like it. It's beautifully shot and beautifully acted, too. So that's the part. Like, I think Patricia Arquette, just everything, she's kind of a scene stealer in a lot of ways.

Speaker: She's funny. When you listen to her in interview, same with Tramil Toman. this i don't like I haven't watched that many interviews with them, but that when they talk, they don't seem like they so they act at all like like the character like at all like even the tone of voice and the their the way their dialect operates it's it's and it's so like it's it's like another thing that we're we talk about in episode 106 mickey 17 actually we're i know we're going to talk about that but like uh robert pattinson's dialect as an example but it's it's intriguing like you can kind of see if you if you watch adam scott in an interview his his voice is not that far off although adam scott's difference

Speaker: in terms of his innie and his Audi are incredible. He did such a great job of china yeah kind of changing them. Same with Britt Lauer in some way, but I don't know enough about her, honestly, her Audi. And what kind of irked me about episode four, although it is a brilliant episode, is that like she isn't all that different. It's like she pulled it off so well, she confused me too. Like it's it's kind of strange. like interesting I'm sure there's little subtle things that if you watch it over, you can you can tell, but I really, I'm not sure that the differences are that stark.

Speaker: because obviously that's crazy mark scout didn't notice it so that yeah that's interesting because for me i knew in the first episode like i was watching episode one of season two and i was like that's not heli i knew it immediately and my mark didn't know so i mean yeah i'm aware mark didn't know and and again i think it because she's trying her best to act as much like heli um and again why did you think that why did you think that it wasn't her because there was multiple, I can't think of the exact, it's been 10 weeks since I watched the first episode.

Speaker: But there's like a couple of things that she says or does within that first episode where i'm like something's off. And I remember turning to I can't remember anything specific. it's Again, it was 10 weeks ago.

Speaker: But I do remember, yeah, first episode, I was like, that that's she's Helena. I was like, she's not Helier. she They never switched her back. And I was so confident in that. And I was very glad that they did the reveal in the fourth episode because I was worried that this was going to be kind of an end of season reveal.

Speaker: And I would be like, oh, I already knew that. like It was obvious. And they were willing to kind of, again, like create a mystery early on and give you that answer within, you know, the first four episodes of the series. Giving more mysteries and and answering them is not really what I'm looking for. You know, i kind of want to get the answers of the things that they've already asked.

Speaker: like that that's the The things that they ask of the audience are the questions that the audience are asking. That's what I feel like aren't answered in this season. and that's That's kind of my criticism of the show as a whole in this season. It just feels weird.

Speaker: like so Especially episode nine. I feel like episode nine is, I think, the worst episode of the show overall. What happened in episode nine? twenty Give me 20 episodes. That's so that's the that burden Irving.

Speaker: um so Suddenly we're like, oh, yeah, he was investigating him. and Oh, yeah, he's an enforcer. Oh, yeah. Oh, OK. That's cool. Why didn't you tell us this before? Why couldn't we see this before? It's strange. Why are we in the dark more about this than we are about Mr. Milchak's feelings about Lumen?

Speaker: We knew Irving from the beginning. It felt like Irving was just yeah. John Turturro is out of the show. we don't have time. John Turturro is doing a book a bunch of movies. He has no time. That's what it feels like. It's like i did just recast him then because I don't – that to me felt very disappointing. It was like – it's one of the most disappointing episodes. I was shocked. I was like, wait, he doesn't even have a suitcase. He's just getting on a train.

Speaker: What's going on here? Like how does this world work is a question that i didn't ask in the first season. The first season drip fed and it spent the time on the outside and it talked about the various things. There were protesters. There was a funeral.

Speaker: There were various things that Mark was doing on the outside that kind of got the answers. The ambulance showed up as an example for Petey when Petey collapsed in ah in a outside of a convenience store outside of a gas station.

Speaker: a convenience store. And so you get this idea is like, okay, the world is pretty much like what we know. Mark goes to a concert at one time, he's dating somebody who can see these like various aspects of how it's like our real life. It's grounding the show in a large large way.

Speaker: Mark goes to a dinner with Rickon. And ri where's Rickon? What happened to Rickon? There's just like a bunch of things that they they have these threads they just build up and it just feels like a bunch of hairy threads. they Then they just follow certain ones.

Speaker: You had mentioned Natalie. What happened to Natalie? What happened to her? It's so strange. And the answer is they don't need Natalie anymore because Mr. Drummond is on the board. So you don't need Natalie when you've got a board member. And the fact that you don't know.

Speaker: But see, why don't we know that? So you you didn't think it was he was on the board because you mentioned it earlier. but it's like I feel like, yeah, hey he's got to be. He's got a direct line in to Egan. He's talking to James on a consistent basis. He's got to go on the board. It would be strange.

Speaker: I thought initially that he wasn't on the board, that he was the replacement for the head of security, Grainer. Yeah, that that was my assumption as well. But it can't be that because he's got a line into unless Grainer was also on the board. It doesn't.

Speaker: It's strange. And like Natalie, even all that stuff with the that you mentioned, that is awesome, that that aspect of the speaker that kind of speaks out for the board. That just went away and now the mystery is gone. Drummond is now talking to Milchak inside the building.

Speaker: It's like, what why are you you breaking the things you were already doing? Milchak just got this promotion. He's already got like... this like line in with the board, and the board was all mysterious. It's just strange. like there's ah There's a bunch of that. It happened throughout the series like the season. i was like, it just feels like you're missing you're missing like episodes. like You ran out time, especially with Bird and Irving.

Speaker: The Bird and Irving thing is crazy because it's like, He just gets on a train and they're being like all mysterious. He's just like, yeah, I didn't hurt anyone really. and And like John Noble's character, like Bert's husband, is kind of like talking about how he's like a bad guy. And yeah and I'm like – Not only that, there's also the – like during that dinner episode, which is a great episode, by the way, great where useless he drops how Bert hasn't severed for 20 years.

Speaker: And then quickly, Bert's like, no, no, like, we've only had the severance program for 10 years. And it kind of like it doubles back. So again, I think those are mysteries. And and in my like, I'm sorry, which parts of mystery?

Speaker: that how that how it's been going on for 20 years, like the severance program, even though that the public knowledge is only 10, that very clearly it's been going on for much longer. Right. And we're not going to ask another question.

Speaker: Right. I know. But that's another thing. Like it's more questions. And it's like, that's cool. But you kind of have to go into it like, It felt more like they were willing to answer questions in the beginning of the show, but now they're asking more questions. And then Bird is interesting, but Bird doesn't do much without Irving. So it's like you kind of create – like maybe you do follow Bird afterwards, but it's weird. Like he went on a train. Irving is one of the most interesting characters on the show, and he's just now gone.

Speaker: It's like a weird – Do think though that he is actually gone? Like I didn't – I don't know. i don't know, but it's like – But why why make him go away at all? Like he just was shuffled off like real quick.

Speaker: It's just, so Burt basically convinced him to go to dinner so that Drummond could go to his house and um and go through his stuff. So he could determine that he was investigating and then Burt showed up in his house and he's an enforcer.

Speaker: I had guessed that Burt was working for Lumen at the dinner. That is a guess that I made right away. That was fairly obvious at the dinner. That's cool. But it's like, you didn't really reveal that. You revealed it in so way i had to and such a way that I even went back and I'm like, wait, did we know this before?

Speaker: I was like, I don't understand this. like I went back to that scene where he's sitting on the on the on the chair and I'm like, did they know this at the dinner that they worked outside? He worked outside of Lumen for Lumen?

Speaker: like I'm like, I thought we guessed this. like My fiance, Dawn guessed it too. and We were like, wait, what? Did we miss something? ah we We literally didn't understand. and If you have an audience member going back,

Speaker: asked Did you miss something? You kind of failed a little bit. Like there's a little bit of – were like, do we miss an episode? Because it's like we missed some big aspects of various things. And honestly, it's crazy that they didn't go back to the real world almost at all. And like the time they would go back to the real world is an example. They go back to like the before times when Gemma and Mark just start dating. And that episode is like – that episode is immaculate.

Speaker: Yeah, especially that is episode seven. Again, Chickaibardo. That was with Jessica Lee Gagne, who does the cinematography. and Holy moly, dude. I genuinely think like it is the most beautiful and visually captivating episode of the entire series by far. like I thought it was...

Speaker: Brilliant. Start to finish. So emotional. Very good. It's show me eight shots of eyeballs zooming in and I'm just sitting there being like, this is a fucking awesome dude. It's like, yeah why? Why?

Speaker: But it's good. But it's just like, that's, that's cool. But that, and then it looks like that world is normal. And like, Lumen's not mentioned. Really, very subtly. And then obviously the parts where she's in the Lumen that I mentioned, but when they go back in time and stuff and the way the shot and the way they do like the old filter and stuff, it's awesome.

Speaker: But we don't get the idea of what is it the real world like? Because I don't understand also like how big is Lumen? How how powerful is Lumen? Does this Lumen have a lot of money? Why didn't they rehire a grainer? what What are they doing with security? Because their security is sucks ass. It's strange, though. like But why is that the case? And these questions start piling up. And then you start thinking, is the writing maybe not quite as good as you think?

Speaker: like They're maybe biting off more than they can chew. And that's really where it comes down to. It's like it's brilliant, but it's like if you really start thinking about it, there's so many things that they just...

Speaker: don't really get to. And like Rickon was working with Natalie apparently, and then it never happened. He was writing a Bible that never seemed to materialize. Yeah. It's like, it's, it's just strange. it's like, because you ran out of time, that's what happened. If you had the time to go back to those scenes, you might've done it, but you,

Speaker: you kind of just didn't have time to do it. So you just, you kind of pull it threads and then you leave them. It reminds me like Marvel and credit scenes. Like how many of these are they just going to leave dangling and never answer again? Because they just don't, they realize, you know what? We we can do something else.

Speaker: It's like, I don't know. like Like the, the, the idea of the controversy on the outside about severance is actually quite interesting. And it's interesting to Kevin, like, uh, scouts, um,

Speaker: the scout sister, Devin's scout. um She, she's like, she's, she says at the, in the last episode, by the way, the for way the first episode, that last episode begins is really interesting. The, the, the conversation that asks that other question of like, what if you could talk to your innie while you were an outie or what can you, what would you say to them? And then you can talk back and forth, which is they don't let you do. And that's so interesting too. And so well shot. That's where Adam Scott really shines too, because he,

Speaker: He's showing like the two sides of of himself, the innie and the outie, and how they're different. It was just like an acting clinic in a way. It was very good. He did a great job. That's a great scene. They weren't afraid to do that.

Speaker: and They do that, and they do it really well. but then yeah like but Devin asks the question like,

Speaker: she's she's kind of asking, well, we can stop this and then we'll get her out and then we'll go to the authorities. It's like, and my question as an audience member is like, you just said the authorities word. You said authorities. Now my mind is like, as it has been for a while, but I just, you didn't say it before.

Speaker: I'm thinking like, Why wouldn't you do it before? Like, what is the problem? Is this like some kind of fascist capitalist society where like you can't go to the police because you won't get away with it because lumen is so big that they're too big to fail.

Speaker: You couldn't take them down. Like, what does it look like? Because they never tell you. And that's the issue. And like at a certain point, You're going to keep asking those questions. Why wouldn't they go after them? do you know gene You know you have a witness. Kobel is right there. You can go and see the authorities right now. She's witnessed it. She literally designed the program for Cold Harbor.

Speaker: you can You can use that data and go into the police today. Why are you wasting time? Why would you risk going and finishing Cold Harbor when you know she's going to be killed after that?

Speaker: That's so crazy, but we don't know the answer because they didn't ask answer or ask those let let us even ask those questions because they don't show you enough about the world on the outside anymore. They decided to close that part off so we can't know what would happen.

Speaker: And I think that that's a bit cheap and a bit like you're not really, you're kind of cheating the way you're writing it. you You could, if you wrote it better, you could maybe, like it's hard to write that. That's the problem is that you've asked now so many questions and invited so many questions.

Speaker: That it's difficult. But yeah, that that's the trick. Like it's a brilliant TV show. It's one of the best TV shows running currently on the air, but it's, you have to, they got to get it tighter than this. Like like, I almost think they got rid of Irving. Cause it's like, you don't even have, you don't have the capacity to deal with it.

Speaker: Like you you just, you've, you've bit off so much and you can't run it for 10 episodes and solve the questions you've, got you've, you've invited. um by the audience so you you kind of have to it's interesting it's it's it's it's intriguing even the zach cherry's character like i thought he was kicked to the curb i thought he was leaving thought he got there he got into into the elevator he's gonna be gun i'm like i think he's done because they don't have the capacity to keep him around because it's just there's too much going on like lumen So the ending, the ending of this season this the the finale is, again, one of the greatest episodes of TV in a while.

Speaker: Like, I think it's excellent. It's so good. and The way it starts and then the the marching band specifically and then they lock him in the thing and then they're... The frigging fight in the hallway is unbelievable.

Speaker: Drummond is so interesting. But but again, it begs the question, why would he try to kill him? We don't understand anything. You know i mean? Like, if you watch Lost, right? You got get the idea when there's a mystery...

Speaker: Like you kind of understand why a character would do a certain thing somehow, like a little bit, like you understand it a little bit and you kind of, you kind of like expect to get an answer. If they killed Mark, it would have been literally ah lawsuit or not because they don't seem to care about somebody going missing or being kidnapped.

Speaker: So you kind of have to answer something about the real world to make it make sense. When he's choking him out, I'm like, okay, this is an awesome fight scene. This is a really cool scene.

Speaker: But if you take it a lot, but if you go into the bird's eye view or like take a bigger picture look, you start to realize, wait, He's on the board. He works with Jane directly.

Speaker: He's killing Mark, the guy who they just, first of all, they relied on the whole time. They can kill his wife. They faked her death and the authorities, the police literally came to his door. That was actually the only moment in the, in the show actually that made sense on a grounding perspective because the police come to his door to announce that his wife is dead in a car accident.

Speaker: I guess they're on a pay on the payroll. We don't know. And it's like it's like they don't have the budget. They didn't want to hire any actor as the head of security again. So they just like forgot about Grainer. And Grainer was dead and that was it.

Speaker: And they just wander around. like yeah like so The way I looked at it is that Drummond was Grainer's replacement. And I never thought of him... yeah goes Yeah, I guess I get where you're coming from, like directly. But yeah, I don't know. I never took it that he was on the board.

Speaker: Maybe I'm wrong. Again, but why would James? James would just go to the board. He wouldn't go to one guy who's the head of security. Like he's a he's the head of the company. it's It's like that's the thing is like, did they do they have the answer for that? Because it looks like maybe they don't know the answer.

Speaker: So I'm I'm actually almost more talking about like the long term aspect of the show is the season three could be shit. Season two is excellent. But like you have now opened cans of worms that you maybe don't you're not capable of answering.

Speaker: And like, especially if you're going to accelerate the process to write the next season. I'm curious, like, are you going to be able to hold up like instead of or are you just going to make a bunch of things that are called plot convenience because you need to now?

Speaker: I don't It's weird. like Natalie was this go-between. it's why doesn't Why do you need Drummond to go talk to Milchak? Other than Drummond being a very interesting character to watch. He's so interesting, but you kind of have to follow the chain of command. You can't just break it randomly.

Speaker: i'm I'm so curious. like it's just It's the most curious thing I've ever seen. because As I got to the end of the show, the the worst thing about the the last episode is that They go, and and of course, like, Dejan Lachman, who's really great, by the way, like, Dejan Lachman's character, Gemma, Mark's wife, she goes and she gets she gets out.

Speaker: She gets out of the the door on the and the hallway. He lets her out. so Yeah. So, but before we get to that point, I almost want to take a step back about Gemma as a character. Because yeah the reveal of where Gemma is in Episode 7, essentially being held captive under Lumen,

Speaker: Right. Not really understanding why or even how, because Mark says that he saw her dead body. Yeah. Even with the reveal at the end of the season, essentially them talking about that MDR has been creating like every file that they've been creating is another any.

Speaker: For Gemma, if I'm understanding this correctly, this is 25, 25 he's. twenty five andnie

Speaker: Did I miss, did they explain as as to why that is ah why they were doing that? Because there's this brief, because the lack cold Harbor is her going in and taking apart the crib Yeah. You know there's a reveal.

Speaker: Mark and Gemma, they were going to have a kid. She has a miscarriage. yeah Mark already built the the the crib and then she goes in and, you know, breaks you know he breaks it apart. Yeah, he does. Well, she hears him yeah downstairs breaking it apart. It's devastating. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah. And it's... Like, are they trying to figure out like to see if any's will ignore pain, even when shown things that are directly connected to their Audi's trauma? Because they're watching it. And then because the one guy who I forget that character's name, I wrote down like a bunch of the characters, but I didn't write that guy. He has like the the weird like thing on his head.

Speaker: Maybe we don't know his name, actually. I don't think so. I'm not sure we do Yeah. Does she call him something? Good question. like I can take a look. Yeah. keep going. And, you know, he's kind of watching it play out, and he's, like, kind of almost excited. He's like, oh, she doesn't... She's not reacting.

Speaker: Yeah, this is interesting. Yeah, go on. And it's like... okay what this So, like, was MDR created specifically... so when did MDR get made? Was it created specifically when they took over Jemma?

Speaker: um and what are they actually testing? Because from the looks of it, it already, like, them asking the question of, like, oh, will will the annies ignore pain, you know, related to trauma that is connected to their outies? But, like, the whole premise of the show is Mark going, like, working Lumen to forget about the trauma, but then he's directly, he's seeing Miss Casey consistently. So it asks those questions, like, what what was the point of that? Like, what is it? I don't know. Maybe I'm too stupid. Did they answer that?

Speaker: Because Harmony Cobell is essentially... she She started this program. And then, again, it also adds to the question is MDR, again, assuming MDR was created to make these innies for Gemma, did Harmony Cobell go out and find a Mark specifically and bring him in so that he was still directly connected to Gemma?

Speaker: like what so What is Cobell's motive? These are great questions. I love how... critically you're thinking about this is awesome. Like, so the the one quite, so actually there is a name for that guy. His name is Dr. Maurer, but the the, the thing about Dr. Maurer is interesting. So you, that question you just asked is great. So you you said, did Harmony Cobell go out and look for them?

Speaker: And the answer is maybe not Harmony Cobell, but they were definitely being surveilled long before because Dr. Maurer is at the baby doctor. He's the baby doctor. in that scene when they go to the doctor's office.

Speaker: and We slowed it down and it's him, he walks by. He's in the background as they're walking in. So that's one of the craziest things, the miscarriage is likely not a mistake, not a mistake like it's not ah an error that happened, that like her body just rejected the baby. It seems like she was given drugs to make it so she couldn't have have a baby.

Speaker: Based on that aspect, there's a scene again with him walking by. If that's a different actor, I mean, they picked a really, really lookalike guy to that Robbie Benson dude. I think his name is Robbie Benson. Interesting. The actor who plays him.

Speaker: So that's the crazy thing is like they clearly were surveilling them for a while. And they must have been because they had to fake her death somehow. So how'd they do that? And they must have the cops on the payroll. But this is the thing is like, we they've asked us to ask so many questions.

Speaker: Like they've invited us to ask so many questions. It's like, this is more than I remember even having in Lost. Like it's just, it's so much like you got it You've got to be careful. This is too much. Like initially we were talking about how happy we were that they were answering questions in such a clip.

Speaker: And now I feel like going in like at the midway point of the season, I was like, who whoa, to put the brakes on. like's There's just too much going on here. You need to like, they don't even have a time to take a breather. And then the crazy thing is like they had Mark trying to reintegrate.

Speaker: I'm like, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa. Are you sure you want to reintegrate him now? Because you have all of these questions you haven't answered about the outside. And if he's out of commission because he's in like a bad way, Petey was not in good shape.

Speaker: like Do you really want to make him like this? Because then he can't really go visit his sister. He can't do various things because he's going to be disabled. He's going to be in bad shape. like So it was like, that's a strange choice. I was like, wow, this is a big swing you're going to take. going to try to reintegrate him like now I was like, this is so early. I expected this to be in like season three or four. You know what I mean? I was like, and I was kind of happy about it in a weird way, but I was also thinking like, you, are you ah you sure?

Speaker: And now I'm even more like, are you sure you were doing the right thing? Cause we, we've missed out on so many other things that we don't really know about because they kind of just, they did that instead. Because a lot of the season also was taken up by flashback episodes in a way. like there's There's a lot of like... like they They took up two at least that were major episodes that were like completely not to do with the main current history plot.

Speaker: They're not present day. They're past. or Or present, but for somebody who we don't know anything about in this Harmony Cobell. And then a Harmony Cobell answers were like, wow, that was awesome. At least we got some answers. That was awesome.

Speaker: And then we got answers about his wife, but we knew she was obviously held captive because that's revealed in the first episode of season two. So it's like, we don't really get any answers with that necessarily. We just, we got the color, you know, i like they filled in the picture. The coloring book was all colored in.

Speaker: So we're like, okay, I get it. We saw the outline. We know what it was like. And then we're like watching and she's basically being tortured. And the weird thing is that we don't really know she's down there and she's like, she knows who she is. So she's not severed when she goes home to bed, like to the room to bed. She's got like a little suite and you're like, what?

Speaker: But she's not like that urgently trying to escape. Like, did she come here by choice? It seems like she chose this. Like maybe they promised her you can you can get a baby or something. Like we we'll fix you. This is like a medical procedure. Because she's like, can I come go see Mark? Or maybe she's like doing like a Stockholm syndrome. Like she really wants to leave, but she's trying to like be negotiate because it's been four years.

Speaker: I don't know. It's so interesting. Like I don't know that dynamic. It's so weird. And Dr. Maurer is very rapey. I'll say that. Oh, oh, dude. Very much. I'm like, Jesus Christ, this guy's freaking creepy. There's a Christmas, the Christmas card writing, freaking severed version. Like Jesus Christ.

Speaker: Oh, okay. And there's another question that they invited us to ask. Okay. So Mark is working on Colt Harper, but there's a bunch of MDR employees that are there too. They're obviously working on their own thing because as they say, oh, these numbers are scary.

Speaker: These numbers are this. These numbers are that. So they're seeing scary or whatever. Are they seeing his wife? They're not seeing Gemma. They must be seeing their own. Or are they seeing his wife?

Speaker: That's the question I had. Like, I don't know. i are they working on multiple people? But then they keep saying, like, this is like the most momentous occasion in Lumen history. The most momentous thing in the history of the world. They keep saying. put this like giant They put this thing on this giant pedestal.

Speaker: Like, i don't know. Like, it's too many questions. Like, where I think about, like, the first season. And I'm like, wow, this is cool. This is interesting. There's a lot of questions. And they're and answering. They don't really ask you to ask too many questions. they're kind of answering them as you go.

Speaker: And then they show throw some wacky shit in there. Like, the little dancing and the lights. The lighting, by the way, in this show, so good. Man, the lighting design is just amazing all the way through. And they they almost have, like, ah it's almost like a theater presence in the way they can light it. Because they're in these indoor environments. And they they can do wacky things with it. Because it's not a normal place.

Speaker: So like even though the lighting the lighting in Kear Egan, that that statue that only moves like this.

Speaker: That's so cool. And like how it did that. And then like it opens up the wall panel and there's like fog that comes out. There's a fog machine. While there's like a comedy show going on and there's like a laugh track. It's like, what is this?

Speaker: It's just so cool. But again, there's so many questions. i just don't like The first season, they they showed us the museum and they gave us like little snippets. And then they asked us to like question who's in the other departments and what are they doing and why are they doing what they're doing? By the way, did you notice? You must have noticed this. But the other departments, that little card that Zach – was it ja Zach Cherry's character? Somebody had smuggled out a card from Bert's department. I can't remember the name of his department.

Speaker: you remember that card? It's like a card where he's standing up. It was like a yoga pose. Yeah. There's like a picture of a card. It's a green card. Right. And that card is literally in the addition Lachman's like Gemma's hand when she's, when she's trying to go through that treatment.

Speaker: You notice that? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I like, what is that? That's so cool though, that that exists. But I'm like, do they have an answer to that though? Because they've, they've introduced so many things. It's like, we're just like living in like, that's why this, the end of the season is more frustrating to me than the first one because like they introduced way more questions and didn't answer any questions.

Speaker: Like they they answered less questions than they answered. And the first season season was like, yeah, it's the first season of a show. There's questions asked, but they they kind of reveal it by showing you it and in a way. And they're kind of answering the questions of the what if you were severed so often and so frequent and so meticulously that you can't really feel that bad about it. Not knowing what Lumen actually does.

Speaker: The work is mysterious and important. it's like, okay, cool. i don't know. And like we, and we don't know, like they completed cold Harbor and we don't know what it does. Like they're like waiting there and they're like, yeah. Okay. So bringing back to what you said, sorry, I've gone on a huge tangent after tangent.

Speaker: I'm going going to roll it back to what you said earlier. You said, do we know what it is that they've solved for her? It's the 25th severance of her, but her consciousness.

Speaker: And she's sitting there in the room. And they're like amazed. They're like, wow, Cold Harbor. And she's sitting there and she's unscrewing the the baby crib. She's getting it done.

Speaker: Cool. And like, she doesn't know. And so it's like, yeah, that's what severance is. And I was like, okay, am I missing something?

Speaker: What is so special about this? Does anyone need to be severed 25 times? What I thought it was, because they kept saying that she would die after Cold Harbor, Cobell had said.

Speaker: I was like, okay, she's going to leave the room. I thought she was going to leave the room and collapse. Because she's going to believe they're going to somehow train her mind to believe that she's dead. I thought Cold Harbor was a representation of the cold night that she was driving and she got into a car accident. She wore the she wore the same outfit.

Speaker: Exactly. Yeah. I thought, I thought it was going to have something to do with like, she's going to have to go there and sit in a car and then relive her death and then actually die. And then she just dies. And then they just make her believe she's dead and she's actually not dead. Like they try to like, it's Mike mind control. Like, but they didn't do anything special. It's the same shit we were seeing the whole time. And that's, what's so weird. And it's like, is that exciting? Like we really don't see at all what the answer was. And so that's, what's disappointing to me. It's like, we're watching this and I'm like,

Speaker: They're not answering this question. In fact, they gave me another question. Like, what the hell is it then? I thought we're going to see what they were doing. We're going see what the experiments even meant. they We didn't find out anything. And at the end of the thing, they get out.

Speaker: And then he abandons her in the hallway. And in my estimation, that may not be true, but for me, she's in the Lumen building. So... she didn't even leave.

Speaker: She has always been Gemma the whole time in this building since the beginning. since Since we started seeing the show. She's always been in the building. And so now she's in the building again as Gemma, but just on the other side of the door. And Mark is in the severed floor, just like he was at the beginning of the season.

Speaker: So I'm like, we've actually been left off at the exact same moment. We started the season. We accomplished nothing. And by the end of it, Mark won't know what happened to Gemma because he didn't let her out of the building.

Speaker: So therefore Gemma could just be put back into the s the, the, the, the severed floor again. And she would, you would never know because assuming Lumen has a lot of money, they obviously have security. So they got to be able to just put her back there.

Speaker: So I'm like, to me, we're at the exact same spot, except they're just going to be in a weird, they're just running down the hallway. What are they going to live? Like weird, weird like rat people on the walls like they're not gonna they're not gonna get away with this they're just gonna get in trouble again it's just like the end of the season one like they got in trouble because they did that they did the uh what they call that time can be overtime contingency overtime contingency and that it's like the same thing they're getting scolded for it and then they end up in the same position

Speaker: Yeah. Except we now don't have Irving. So we're just kind of one step back because he's the only one who kind of knew anything. He gave him the directions to the to this experimental floor.

Speaker: So, man, I don't know. it's like ah It's very conflicting for me. like I think it's just one of the most beautifully shot, well-written when it comes to dialogue, great ideas and in TV probably maybe ever that I've ever seen. It's just a cool idea.

Speaker: It seems so silly maybe and so frivolous, but they're their dedication to the idea was so good. But the problem is is the stuff around it, like the cult of Lumen, is more confusing than I have ever seen it now. I'm more confused about it than even in the beginning of season one. like I thought, oh it's a corporation that's getting away with shit because corporations get rid get get away with shit.

Speaker: But it looks like they train these people from kids and then they become employees of the company. So like you're asking about why Milchick. isn't isn't leaving? It's because he was trained as a child. He probably worked in some freaking mine and he worked his way up to this.

Speaker: Who knows? He probably ended mine in a different place. Oh, no, not even that. I forgot about this. They asked the question they never answered right in the beginning, the first episode. They introduced all these characters on the severed floor in Macrodata Refinement and they never, they say there's like multiple other branches. What are you talking? Is there a multiple branches?

Speaker: We didn't see it. Yeah. Right, but maybe it's the same building, but they just ask that question and they never answer it and they never see them again. It's just like, okay, that's cool, but now I'm more confused than ever. It's like, I'm severed. God damn it.

Speaker: Like, I don't know what's happening. You know what i mean? Like, it's strange. Don't you find you have more questions than you have answers by far? Like, um after a season one, I'm like, I understand it. They have her wife, his wife. It's like, there's a mystery of why, but it's kind of like, okay, I get it. they they They're an evil corporation, but now they're like a cult.

Speaker: Yeah. Irving was in love with a guy who was both working. He somehow worked 24 hours a day. he worked as an employee on the severed floor full time and then came home and was an enforcer. Like what?

Speaker: How does the time work that way? doesn't even make any sense unless because Bert was working there for 20 years. No, 10 years, right?

Speaker: No, so at least 20 because his husband says that like, oh, you've been severed for 20 years. So, right. so But probably even longer than that, realistically. ah Maybe not severed, but maybe working for a Lumen.

Speaker: Wait, wisdom maybe I misunderstood. Was bet was Bert his innie when he was talking to Irving in his apartment? No. No, his outie. Right, because he's the bad guy. He claims he's a bad guy.

Speaker: Yeah. Okay, I don't know. Mm-hmm. I don't know, man. But yeah, it is. Yeah, it is interesting. And I guess to. um and Yeah, we kind of went went away from it, but it it was also interesting with Devin's character. i don't know if you saw there's a theory going around online.

Speaker: It's a stupid theory that I don't necessarily agree with that. Devin is kind of in on it. Like Jar Jar Binks is a is is ah is the most powerful Sith ever. Yeah. Yeah. um And there is. And one of the big reasons why people are pointing it out is because Devon actually doesn't use an iPhone. She's one of the few characters that uses an Android.

Speaker: And people are pointing that that's that. But um there was also in the the first season when Dylan is kind of in that overtime condition contingency room, there's a person's name on it and it says Devon F. I think they proved that that's actually just someone that works on the production team so that all the names on there were people that actually worked for the show.

Speaker: interesting But yeah, it is interesting because like the reason I disagree with it, it's very clear that, you know, Devin is ride or die for Mark. She'll do anything for Mark. She's even talking against Lumen to Rickon when he's like writing that Bible, the book for the Severed Floor people.

Speaker: and But the the thing that kind of goes against it is like, why does she call Miss Cobell? is it like I guess it is out of desperation. She's the only person she knows that works at Lumen.

Speaker: You're saying it's for it, like for the theory? Yeah, yeah, for the theory. What was the reason she would reach out to Miss Cobell out of all people? The woman that... pretended to be someone else that hit her baby and caused a panic in her house just so she could essentially you stop the severed people from revealing things on the outer world. Like, Cobella's very clearly pro-Lumen, and that is what Devin sees.

Speaker: Why did she choose to call her? So again, there's... can be Some more questions. Some more questions as well. Because we're looking at these writers and Dan Erickson's team is infallible. But in reality, I think they're they're actually in over their head.

Speaker: like That's my theory, actually. is like That, I don't know. i think she just did that. and It's weird that she would do. You're right. Why did she do that? yeah It's like, you were betrayed by this person who stole your baby.

Speaker: Like, are you kidding? Yeah. you were going call this woman, and I think it's a mistake. Because they didn't have anyone else to suggest it. Because the other lady, what's her name? The the doctor who literally was was doing severance. so like She was doing the reintegration, but she was but one of the doctors who... like specifically did the surgery for seven yeah i forget her character's name here it's buried but she's interesting because she's like she's there and she she's also like gone now it it's a it's i don't know there's just something about this i don't know it's like she never reveals and anything to mark like she doesn't really tell him anything even though she's got all the information it's like it's okay but like when you want more info like

Speaker: I don't even like Cabell like go in there again. You got to got to think about this. Why would you tell them? Why would you tell Mark to go in there and finish Cold Harbor when you know his wife is going to be killed after that? If that's what you're suggesting.

Speaker: That is what she believed. you're going to finish Cold Harbor and then. And then you then go look for just go look for her first. You know.

Speaker: I think the reason they wanted it to like solve it, like do Cold Harbor first is because she knew that there would be like the theatrics and then he would have a yeah ah the opportunity to actually.

Speaker: offense They've been wandering around all season, dude. Yeah. Touche. Touche. Like it's hard to wander around when you're at 97% perhaps, but we're not, whatever. then She we you was at 96% something.

Speaker: So that's fair. So yeah the character the other daughter ah doctor's name is Asal Raghabi. Yeah, Raghabi. Played by Karen Aldridge. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah. But yeah, she's like, Cobel's looming through and through. It's like, yeah, she is. Because she was literally grown up through it. And it's like, that's that's what we learn is interesting.

Speaker: But she's against it because she they stole her plans. But she stole her plans and she's only kind of getting upset about that now. She's kind of in a bad spot on the severed floor. She's just the manager of the severed floor. Shouldn't she be like in charge?

Speaker: It's like, shouldn't she be the one doing the the experiment in the actual? She must have done something else that made them upset with her. i Is there a chance they didn't plan out how Cobel's story was going to go and she wasn't actually the one who made the plans initially?

Speaker: Like stolen by Jane because they stole them by Jane. Jane stole the plants from her, right? Right. So maybe what happened was they just designed this this season. They didn't actually plan that in the first season.

Speaker: They're pulling a Rise of Skywalker. I don't know. Like, I guess it's the Last Jedi, too, because it's the same shit, right? so It would be more like the Last Jedi because the Last Jedi is great, but they they're making it up as they go along. like it's cool to make look It's cool to make it up as you go along, but you've got to think about it because its eventually you're going to paint yourself into a corner and it's going to get bad.

Speaker: That is just the nature of it. and so So yeah, that's kind of, i don't know, like for next season, what's going to happen is I guess the, unless there's more you wanted to, you had notes there about various things. um I guess just a couple quick notes.

Speaker: Yeah, sure. Let's do it. Before we go. um Oh yeah. The scene in the finale again, where Mark has, drummond and they go on the elevator and he's holding the gun up to his neck oh unbelievable yeah and he's like all right i'm about to turn you like don't try anything and then he turns into regular like mark scout and pulls the trigger and then just shoots drummond and he's bleeding out like that that's crazy and mark is like freaking out blood's pouring over him like oh brilliant brilliant phenomenal phenomenal but again that's plot convenience you realize right you think so

Speaker: There's no other way that that could have happened. If he didn't do that, Drummond would have literally turned on him instantly because you you take the shock of it in that second and you you take the gun away because you're like, what am I holding a gun? Who are you?

Speaker: That's it. It's over. Oh, no, I'm so sorry. Like, you you're Mark. You're not, you didn't do any, you and you haven't heard a fly. Why would you do that? It doesn't make any sense. Your mind would not be thinking I just got into a fight. The adrenaline is kicking for that Mark. The other Mark doesn't, ah how he may have adrenaline, but he's not going you know what I'm saying? Yeah. If didn't shoot him,

Speaker: yeah That guy's a beef. That guy's crazy. and When he punched him in the face. of him yeah but Unbelievable. When he punched him in the face, I almost wish he wasn't dead because he's such an interesting character. I want to know why he attacked him.

Speaker: I don't know why still to this moment. Why he yet why would he choke him out? That's why i think it's like plot convenience there too. Is there a reason or they just thought let's make an exciting exciting scene? Yeah, my my thought process is that Marcus served his purpose. He finished Cold Harbor. He's yeah not needed. And then the corporation is so powerful that they can just kind of do whatever.

Speaker: i wrote that in my notes my understanding but yeah 100 i wrote what you said in my notes but then the last question was it is it because it's like is it though because you even if you get gemma out then you're they're not going to have any repercussions you're their lawyer they're to be lawyered up to hell you you won't matter won't matter like no we were saving her she was here on her own volition and then you can just freaking she's got a mind chip you can just make her look like she's got dementia Like there's nothing you can, there's nothing you're going to worry if she does get out.

Speaker: Cause you just make her look like she's forgotten everything. Cause you can just click a, click a switch and go from there. I don't know. It just feels like they just ran out of like, even Mark, you can just completely, you you could just make him severed again, make him go while he's in the building, go down to the bottom of severed floor and make him have a like a ah severance for not remembering both marks and then just say goodbye. Have a nice life. You're fired.

Speaker: And then he's never can come back into the building again because it's cold harbors over. And maybe that's the theory for next season. That's what would do if i was looming. yeah um and then one of my last notes as well is when jame egan comes in onto the severed floor and meets heliar and says like you know i used to see kier in helena it's like but but i stopped and now like i see it in you and i just like i love that when he shows up and heli like turns around and literally all she says like what the fuck like Like it's ah that's kind of what I was referring to is just this show is so weird and over the top, but people have such honest reactions. And I think Heli in particular has the most honest reactions consistently.

Speaker: It's grounded. Yeah, that's a grounded part of it. And then also after James says all that stuff, she I think she says like, you're so fucking weird. Like something like that. And I don't know. I really love that as well.

Speaker: This is an interesting thing too, but I wonder how much thought was put into it on the writing. like I believe that a lot of like my childhood and who I am today is because of nurture, not nature. I don't believe my genetics has made made my made my personality.

Speaker: So the question of like, you don't remember who you are. You don't remember even more states than Delaware. And you don't even know that isn't necessarily a state. So they're like going through the different places. Like equator is like a big building.

Speaker: Like, that's cool. But if you don't remember that type of thing, it's interesting. Like, who are you really, though? And like, weren't you raised by this crazy family? Like, the Eagans seem insane. So wouldn't you be a kind of like kind of insane as well?

Speaker: That I guess maybe speaks to the fact that that she's not like Helena Eagans, maybe a really normal person on the outside. Like, he's he's actually much more normal. Jane doesn't like her, though.

Speaker: Like, James doesn't like her as admitted by him. He said he doesn't love her at all. It's it's his daughter. that's such an interesting aspect. And, like, it seems like when she goes to breakfast at that, like, very, so like, barren house that they live in.

Speaker: And he's like, I would eat it raw or whatever he says about the eggs. It's like, okay. Good for you. This is a strange breakfast conversation, but it's like it kind of, maybe that's why she she's the normal person on the outside. and It's a strange, on the inside, I guess.

Speaker: Because she's... She's kind of forced to be – It's strange though. if you were If you were like brought up in a million billion billionaires household and this guy is a psychopath clearly, wouldn't you kind of have – Even if you didn't become a psychopath, you became like you wanted to get out of it.

Speaker: You would still be influenced a little bit. Then nurture would affect your innie, right? Isn't that what you would think? Or maybe you believe more in nature. I believe more in nurture is really what made me as opposed to nature did.

Speaker: Yeah, no like I know. almost feel like the innies are the person's nature and they haven't been affected yet by nurture. And then yeah but their outies is their life because of nurture.

Speaker: That's the way I took it. And like their innies are not necessarily children. like mark Mark, I feel like in particular, like Mark S., is is more childlike than Mark Scout because he hasn't dealt with all the traumas and everything.

Speaker: But maybe that's how Mark Scout was before, right? As a kid, he was happy. He was go lucky, right? So ah yeah, it's ah the the the innies are the the person by nature since they weren't nurtured to become who they are on the outside.

Speaker: It can't quite be like that though because it – Yeah, the child thing is interesting. like that's That's a cool way to look at it Because if they were like a child child, children are innocent. So there's that aspect of innocence.

Speaker: And actually, Ben Stiller talked about that in I don't know if you've watched the end of the episodes where they talked about the... the the episode, there's like a little snippet at the end of each episode where they, Dan Erickson and and Ben Stiller and and various other directors or the actors talk about their roles and what happens in the show.

Speaker: And like Ben Stiller talked about, I think it was episode one, that the end of episode one, they had the snippet after to the credits. And he talked about how the first season was kind of like being, it's like childhood and like being born into this world, this new world.

Speaker: And then this season, season two is kind of like going through becoming like a teenager and like learning like Like what what you know what it is to love and and things like that. And so that's what he was kind of kind of equated it to.

Speaker: So it's interesting. The child thing is interesting, but they do they know how to speak English. They know they have knowledge. You know what i mean? Like they did. And the way you were taught to speak and the way you were taught to do certain things, to eat and to very – You know what I mean? it does influence who you are. Like if you were a person, i don't know what your thought is on like when you eat your food and and watching somebody in your break room, like literally chewing with their mouth open. But if you were taught to chew with your mouth open, you probably chew with your mouth open as an innie.

Speaker: That's why I think you would because you were taught the whole your whole life that it becomes such instinctual nature like speaking English that you would end up doing that. So like certain things you would have to carry over.

Speaker: That's that's kind of my thought. I mean, there's it's obviously all theoretical because this can't happen. But their technology that they created is unbelievable. Good for Patricia Arquette, you know? Yeah, amazing. She's amazing.

Speaker: Look at what drugs can do for you. Yeah. Yeah. ah Right. Yeah.

Speaker: But yeah, it's interesting. It's it's really neat. i don't know. Again, really cool. I just hope that they have a... ah got I got to see some answers and less less invitations for questions. I just, I'm hoping that they've got like, I just feel like it's a reset next season.

Speaker: It's just going to reset it And it's going to be so frustrating. Wouldn't that frustrate you? Like, she oh, where is she? Oh, she's gone. And they they're like, oh, we're going to make you put go on another severed floor. Now you're dealing with goats. And then they just put them on us another severed floor. Or is Mark on the outside is like, oh man, maybe they're going like six months. Oh, maybe they'll do a time jump.

Speaker: They could do a time jump. like Six months later, he's Mark Solo depressed because he doesn't get his wife because they just captured her instantly. Or maybe another fake time jump. We didn't even talk about that, how the how season two starts. and It's like oh, it's been two months later. And then the reveal by the end of the episode, it's only been like three days or something like that. No time at all.

Speaker: And you have that like article that claims that they they like yeah were like heroes on the outside. I had that like i think that was another one of the questions I wrote down here. is like What if my... I don't know where it is.

Speaker: I think it was like, what if what if I was told that my my my Audi was a hero on the outside? It's like, well, what happened? like that's such an That's an interesting concept too. But even like the goats, like what you have the goats people because youre you sacrifice goats because of this cult. Is it all for like the the sake of this religion?

Speaker: Is that what they're doing? Yeah. And it's also like weird. Like i feel like it's almost like are they – because he says something about the soul or whatever. I'm like are you – are you guys trying to – like are you putting people's – innies and other bodies like is this going to be like almost like a body swap situation but that's almost like kind of what I took from it um But I don't know. maybe Maybe I'm reading a little bit too into it. That would be neat, wouldn't it? But that we've got nothing to suggest. that like What's a goat have to do with it? but Wouldn't that be neat if they're – that's what I thought maybe they were learning with Cold Harbor. They were going to try to give make her a clean slate and then implant memories of another person and make them – that's a good reason to do that. Bring Kier back to life.

Speaker: like you the theory that's my theory I'm going to just say it's my going theory now I just came up with it Kier is dead but they they on obviously Kier is like Jesus for them they're freaking obsessed with the guy so they bring somehow of Kier's memories implanted I don't know how they would do that though because he's been dead for what 100 years I don't know if that's impossible so they if he was dead for 100 years they bring Kier back to life but how would you do that you would have to have imprinted It'd be insane. you wouldn't You also wouldn't imprint it on, ah like, Deach and Lachman's character. They look nothing alike.

Speaker: She's also not a white person. And it goes to show that yeah and they're they're very racist. Right. Yeah, exactly. so like boy What is your theory about why thericking why fricking Mr. Drummond would try to kill Mark? So you just think because he's done with him, but you don't think there's any consequences? Then there's no there's no way to defeat them then. Isn't that kind of the problem with that kind of plot point?

Speaker: Because then it's over. Even if you get her out, what are to Could you move anywhere? Does Lumen exist in every continent? Does it exist in every country? What country are they even in? They never answered anything.

Speaker: Are they? ah so I guess they could be in Canada. Like that's the thing. Like, yeah, I don't know that's, these are the questions I keep asking and I want them to be answered because they, they, they kind of, they invited me to ask them because of the way the police seems to work.

Speaker: And like the, they, they want, i don't know. It's, it's, it's pretty strange. Like it's, it's a really, it's a really put together season of television, but when you start really breaking it down, eventually it's, if you don't want it to be hokey, I want it to be satisfying. I want the conclusion to be like the breaking bad ending.

Speaker: You know, that's what I'm looking for. I got a finale, ah like a C, a series finale that is truly breathtaking. Like this season finale was so good.

Speaker: But you've got to be careful because if you don't have a plan, that that won't that will never fly. if that Imagine that was a series finale. and Imagine. Oh, dude. Oh, my God. i don't even want to think about that. Well, that's kind of what I was thinking about, like too. like ah you know i I'm waiting two years maybe for the next season.

Speaker: It's like, that's cool. what What if I got canceled? That would be so you so frustrating because we learned then nothing by the end of it. So that's – And Jerry, do you have any more notes before we – um Not about season two, really. I think we covered most of it. There might be a couple things. I do love the line, like, Helly, Hellyar was never cruel.

Speaker: that That I think stood out, like, where um Irving is the person that figures out that Helly is Helena. I do love that line. Yeah. But yeah, they' that's really the main stuff. I guess like my seer theory for the next season, I'm very curious, but I think they're not going to leave the Severed Four.

Speaker: I think Mark, Ellie... Captured? yeah Not captured. That they are taking control of the Severed Four. They have the the marching band, and they're like, we're staying here. We want our lives. We're going to figure out a way to be able to leave as our innies and live our life. And I think...

Speaker: yeah In season one, there's that a picture they find where the people are like murdering each other. Yeah, it's fake. and And the theory is that, oh, no, it's like MDR fights the the other departments.

Speaker: But I don't think that that is a prophecy for that. I think it's a prophecy about it's the innies versus the outies. The outies are going to try to bring them back out. And there's going to be a war that happens on the severed floor. ah No, like the both pictures are of the other side and they have the lanyard for the other side and they're fighting each other. They just made that those pictures specifically so that they can make them have animosity for the other departments.

Speaker: So that that mystery was solved. Yeah, yeah. The mystery was solved, so I don't think that one... and Unless you're talking about a different picture. No, no, it is that picture. I just feel like that that's foreshadowing to what's to come. Like, there is going to be a war, but it's not the war between departments. I don't think it was that going to the Indies versus the Audis.

Speaker: Yeah, I think that that that would be a mite too far on a how thought out they they were. Because, they they again, because they're wearing the lanyards, they they literally planned it. They were so meticulous, Lumen was, to try to manipulate them into fighting each... Like, thinking that they would fight each other, that they...

Speaker: that that was kind of the and that even the goat people the goat people had their own version of them what did they say they said they ate their own butt or they didn't have like a they had two butts or something like that no they had a belly button wasn't it wasn't it something about the best something like that that they they were told lies about them too so they would never go visit the other side yeah it's funny like you would think that a marching band department would be very loud and easy to find Soundproof rooms, dude. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, that's a lot of people.

Speaker: Don asked the question like, oh, wait, are these guys all severed? And my theory was that they were contracted to to come in there as a marching band because you don't really need a marching band. So you just literally because you're several all these people make them do a marching band. I thought, no, they just came in and they were on contract because no, they wouldn't be that weird. You just be told, oh, yeah, it's just like a weird theater production. And we're just having you come to this office for a day and then leaving.

Speaker: But no, they were all severed. i was like, oh, okay. yeah That's so crazy. That's a lot of people that are severed then on that floor. It's like, it's it's yeah. it Again, they're not answering, they're not really asking those questions or asking us to ask the questions about what people think ah ah think about it on the outside like they did with season one. Remember that dinner party?

Speaker: What a question that was. That was such an interesting thing and how controversial it was. And they kind of just like glanced over that, like that doesn't even matter anymore. Like we don't care about the outside. So I really, really, really think like even if they're never going to leave, like I hope that we see because we usually follow Mark. I'm hoping we follow like Devin. I hope we follow Rickon.

Speaker: I want to see what's going on. I want to see the normal people who aren't messed up, like who aren't like dealing with this so specifically. Because once Mark had started to get reintegrated, things just never... They never were the same anymore. We didn't... I don't think we have a good pedestal, like a good ground to stand on enough to make it feel like we can continue this potentially forever and only follow Mark when I don't really know what the world is like.

Speaker: And that's kind of my moral of the story. And that's kind of where I find myself for this season and how I liked it. But again, great season. And if you take out each episode separately, you're like, wow, this the season on a sum of its parts perspective is great. But if you're going to take...

Speaker: like think about the future. That's where I get scared. So, yeah. Bam. That's awesome. It's cool, man. That's it. I think.

Speaker: Yeah. I'm sure we missed a bunch of stuff and didn't even touch on a lot of things. Cause there's so much that happened, but i'm yeah I'm, feeling pretty satisfied about what we talked about. I'm sure. And I think if something ran and be like, fuck, I should have mentioned that. But, uh,

Speaker: There was just on a on a technical level as well, like again, because the technical technical level of their show is just so good. And that's probably the best thing about it. Like the technical on like writing specifics, I guess, and like the the set design and the costumes and all that stuff.

Speaker: But the cinematography and like the the fact that it's not CG when ah Jessica Lee Gagne, she's got like basically, you remember an episode? i think it was it was it was the um is the Gemma episode, but they have like that cable shot where they go through the floor That's not CG.

Speaker: That's so crazy. They talked about it in that after the episode, little blurb. And apparently they shot that. And they shot it with like a, I think, don't know if they had like a dolly that went along a wire or something to shoot it up through the floor. They actually shot it through a,

Speaker: I'm like, what are you talking about? Apparently it was like a side project that took like many shoots to get done. It was like the first shot of the, of the show where they're running down the hallways and they have like, there's very little that is not real, like him running down the hallways, but there is a moment where he's running down a treadmill.

Speaker: They have him like of one part that's impossible to run have him running and following him at the same time. So they had him running down ah on a treadmill and like CG the background. But for most of it, it's all him running. And they somehow have him turning massively and like following him like perfectly. It's crazy what they're able to do. that's just like That's a dream to do that, I feel like. And I wonder, because that shot that's apparently that shoot They kept doing that over and over again for months from what I read.

Speaker: like They kept trying to get that right. The running sequence, was like, wow, like crazy. like That's where your money went. If you're Apple, you can you can spend the the money on that. but But yeah, again, it's just the plot that I'm i'm scared. I'm scared, Adrian.

Speaker: I want it to be good by the end of it. But I got to say, when I saw the end of this that that episode, i was I had to say, the thing I was left was with was disappointment, actually. Oh, damn. More than any other feeling.

Speaker: Because the way it ended, if it it didn't end like that, I would have like, this is one of the greatest episodes ever. And it is still one of the greatest episodes. It's so good. It's just when you think about it on a whole, I'm like, could this be the last good episode? Like, do they they have it in them in two years when the next season opens?

Speaker: Do they have it in them to continue this and make it cohesive with the rest of what they breadcrumbed out? And that's the question that I leave you in the audience with here today.

Speaker: I think they will. I'm going to be optimistic. I think they're going to get it, and I think it's going to be awesome, and I hope it continues to be great, and I think it will be. that's that's That's what I'm going to leave it. I loved this season.

Speaker: I thought it was fantastic. I don't think you necessarily convinced me that it's not as good as the first season. I still really liked it, but um yeah, yeah you you put up some interesting questions, man, and I enjoyed talking about this with you. same Same here. I appreciate your...

Speaker: you' the The way you were thinking about it throughout, obviously throughout the season. You wrote like a lot of great notes that that got brought up to this. So I appreciate that. All right. Well, cool.

Speaker: So Adrian, now as is customary, it is time now to score Severance season two. Yeah. Severance season two. It's time to score it in our, in our as you called it, ah your name, not mine, Rotten Potatoes score.

Speaker: Yes. So I guess I'll ask you first, what is your score for Severance Season 2? Well, actually, Simon, because I don't know, mine might be a little obvious. I was pretty hot on this season. I want to hear your score because you were a little bit, you're not negative, obviously. You obviously clearly liked it, but you you had more criticisms than I. So please tell me your score. I'm curious.

Speaker: So my score, Adrian, is going to may surprise you. It might surprise you. It's actually, despite all of my, you know, the tentative nature of the way I was speaking, I actually review it as a 4.5 out of five.

Speaker: Oh. Does that surprise you? No, that was actually exactly what I was, ah would have been my guess that you were going to review it. Yeah. Incredible. Yeah. You know, I guess my closing thoughts on this is that it kind of reminds me of when I first came out of the theater. Once I saw Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi. Yeah.

Speaker: I feel like that's the best way to describe my review of this of this TV show season. Because when I came out of Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi, I was like, wow, that was incredible.

Speaker: But what are they going to do from here? that was the That was basically my feedback. yeah how do they how do they How do they top this? But how do they also answer all the questions that they've now answered?

Speaker: introduced and so that's the big question but on a technical level what a masterpiece especially but wonderful even yeah not even just technical i was we we talked obviously about the directing and the cinematography and and all that stuff the lighting design the production design the costumes really crazy really good yeah but i also think the writing is incredible too it's just they introduced a lot of questions can they can he satisfyingly Pick up with season three and make it beautiful and just as beautiful as season two.

Speaker: So it's a 4.5 out of five. What is your score, sir? Yeah. So, I mean, I guess just to go off off your point there, let let's let's let's hope that it's not ah rise a Rise of Skywalker situation with season three, you know?

Speaker: Because your the questions you have posed about The Last Jedi, the answer was they don't. they They don't answer any of those questions. So ah really hope I'm really In The Rise of Skywalker, they completely were not capable of making something better.

Speaker: that That was our issue. I know a lot of people don't like The Last Jedi, but, you know, phooey to them. We like it a lot. Yeah, yeah, so I do. And I think Rise of Skywalker is a bad movie, personally.

Speaker: But anyways, yeah, yeah, that's neither here or there. That's neither here or there, my friend. and So for me, the score for Severance season two, um I'm going to give it a five point five out of five. So as a group, we have a 10 out of 10 score.

Speaker: That's our first 100 percent on what? that's unacceptable you can't do you there's you can't have more than five apples out of five okay that doesn't make any sense all right you can grow one or potatoes i guess in this case why i'm referencing apples now yeah i have no idea why you would say that i don't know no no you gave it a five though do you legitimately give it a five out of five no i would give it a three actually if i can't do a 5.5 i'm getting i'm giving it a three there's there's no that great It's just good. It's just fine. It is a five out of five for me. I think this was a spectacular season of television. I loved it. Again, I think I liked it even more than the first season.

Speaker: And I think the first season is a five out of five as well. So I would be a fool not to give this a five out of five for me specifically. Yeah.

Speaker: Excellent. Okay. Well, that's it. That wraps up this episode. This, this, a closer look for Severance season two, Adrian. i appreciate you talking to me today as, uh, as ah I'm sure we said already at some point.

Speaker: But anyway, regardless of that, thank you for, uh, thank you for talking to me. And this was a fun conversation and, uh, yeah. Can't wait for seven season three. It's very exciting. Very exciting.

Speaker: Yeah. I can't wait either, but unfortunately we have to. So yes, my name is Simon Eadie and I'm Adrian Pinter.

Speaker: And this has been a closer look for seven season two. Goodbye. Take care and goodbye.