Episode 6: TPF and Twipys!

Transcript

Speaker: Thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast.

Speaker: We really appreciate that you're here with us today.

Speaker: I am Joshua Roop here with my co-captain, Mr. Scott Larson.

Speaker: Hey, how's it going today, Scott?

Speaker: Uh, it's good.

Speaker: It's good.

Speaker: I, uh, I felt disappointed, uh, that I didn't make it to Texas, uh, pinball festival this year.

Speaker: I planned on going there, but it's, uh, I, I just didn't end up pulling the trigger.

Speaker: And so I, I feel that I should have gone, but, uh,

Speaker: Um, just didn't happen.

Speaker: So I agree with you.

Speaker: I'm kind of sad too.

Speaker: I wish I would have went to Texas pinball fest to Texas pinball festival as well this year.

Speaker: But honestly, in my personal opinion, we're going to get into this.

Speaker: I'm kind of getting more and more upset with the pinball festivals and stuff like that.

Speaker: I don't feel like really much happened besides the twippies, which is awesome.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So if I were going to the festivals, I would want something substantial.

Speaker: And this is where I think that it's the perfect place for a reveal or...

Speaker: or something, you know, a big mod or some big announcements, it feels as if a lot of these major companies are retracting from using these as their landmark announcement events and then doing their own thing.

Speaker: Sadly, I think what happens is that kind of undermines the desire for some people to go to these, you know, to go to Expo, to go to Texas.

Speaker: I was interested in going to Texas when I heard it was going to be

Speaker: the you know the five days of deep root i thought that would be really interesting to see what they have but if they're not going if the pinball manufacturers themselves are going to bypass these major festivals so they can just use their own time to uh to announce their games or develop things then i think it i think it really detracts from the event um

Speaker: I think so too.

Speaker: And here's the other thing too, is the rumor right now is, is the next Stern game is announced on Tuesday.

Speaker: We're recording on Sunday night and we'll probably put this out tomorrow on Monday.

Speaker: But if that's the case, what is the point of holding off five days where they try?

Speaker: I mean, you've already got deep root who says they weren't going to be there, which Robert Mueller had a great explanation.

Speaker: He got married, which congratulations to you, Robert.

Speaker: That's awesome.

Speaker: I think that's very cool that you put family before, uh,

Speaker: the pinball hobby, which is very commendable in my opinion.

Speaker: But really coming down to it, the only other announcement we had was Jersey Jack.

Speaker: And there was a lot of expectation on that one, which we'll get into later.

Speaker: But I just feel like more and more of these pinball events are becoming back burner events.

Speaker: And they're setting their own timelines on when they should release.

Speaker: And I get that you want to be the bride of the ball or whatever you want to call it, the bell of the ball.

Speaker: But it just doesn't make any sense.

Speaker: You've got a bunch of people there that are there supporting the hobby itself and that are excited to be there with you.

Speaker: And now it's just kind of turning into what a drinking fest along with playing some pinball with people you see once a year.

Speaker: Yeah, I don't.

Speaker: And I know that not.

Speaker: Now, there are tons of pinball events, by the way.

Speaker: So I know it sounds like we may be picking on Texas and we may be picking on Expo to some extent, because really those are the two that historically have had more major announcements or major developments happening.

Speaker: And the other ones have tended to be either a show so people can go and sell their mods or sell their customizations or their pins.

Speaker: There's Allentown.

Speaker: There's Rocky Mountain, which is our local one.

Speaker: They also have the California Gaming Expo.

Speaker: So all these other ones haven't really been around reveals.

Speaker: And so perhaps that I may be a little unfair with leveraging that into Texas and maybe Expo.

Speaker: But they also have kind of set themselves up for that.

Speaker: And so they have set expectations that something's going to happen at this event.

Speaker: It's not just an event with some talks and a tournament.

Speaker: This is the cutting edge of the event.

Speaker: And so if they're not going to embrace that, then perhaps they need to, I guess, lower expectations or lower anticipation, because that really is what ultimately drove me from not coming this year is because I felt that there wasn't going to be any stories, any new events.

Speaker: Yeah, and like I said, I don't know, looking at Marvel.

Speaker: Marvel's a great example of this, and DC.

Speaker: The biggest main event for comic books is San Diego Comic-Con.

Speaker: And that's where Marvel does their reveals.

Speaker: That's where they, if you're a diehard comic book fan, you go there, you get a glimpse of the new movies, you get a glimpse of the new comic books, you get a glimpse of, it's like a thank you to those that have supported them, and they know where they're going to be every year.

Speaker: I just, I don't fully understand this concept of why the companies are starting to back off from the pinball events.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And I, I'm, I'm only thinking from a marketing standpoint that they want to control the message they want to, uh, they want to steer it and there's release timelines and everything.

Speaker: I, I totally understand that.

Speaker: I think that you should still, as a company, you should embrace your diehard fans.

Speaker: You should be able to say, yes, we as Stern, as the major company in the market,

Speaker: we don't have anything at these major things.

Speaker: That really should be kind of sad.

Speaker: That if you're the alpha dog in the business, act like it.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: Literally say, I don't care what they're doing.

Speaker: I'm going to own this.

Speaker: I'm going to release this.

Speaker: I'm going to tell what we're doing.

Speaker: And I dare them to follow me.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: But if it seems like they're playing a cat and mouse thing.

Speaker: So I don't get it.

Speaker: It's if you're the alpha dog act like the alpha dog.

Speaker: I agree.

Speaker: Well, let's talk about some other stuff.

Speaker: Steve Ritchie was there at TPF.

Speaker: He had very tight lips on what was going on with his game.

Speaker: But like I said, if rumors are true, we'll see his new game on Tuesday.

Speaker: It is an original theme, and I was talking to an insider in the industry about this theme.

Speaker: He wasn't giving me very many hints on the theme, but he did give me this tidbit, which I found very interesting.

Speaker: Star Wars was originally supposed to be Steve Ritchie's last game.

Speaker: He was supposed to be calling it quits.

Speaker: I guess he walked in and said, here's my resonation.

Speaker: I mean, the dude's made 42 games over 42 years.

Speaker: The dude's a living legend in the pinball industry.

Speaker: And Stern wasn't going to let that go.

Speaker: I mean, it's starting to get hot again.

Speaker: You know, Steve Ritchie designs are probably the most sold and played designs out there between Star Wars and Star Trek and a handful of others from Stern right now.

Speaker: So they said, what can we do to keep you on?

Speaker: And Steve Ritchie said, the only way you can keep me on is if I got to do an original theme.

Speaker: And so...

Speaker: They didn't even go to Gary Stern about this is what I was told because Gary is very adamant on we do themes.

Speaker: That's all that we do.

Speaker: That's what sells pinball right now.

Speaker: We are geared towards an operator market.

Speaker: We need to sell to them.

Speaker: And so Gary's partner said, you know what, Steve, if that's what's going to take to keep you here, you can do your original theme.

Speaker: So either A, this is going to be his last title.

Speaker: Or B, he has one more after this because he got to make his own and then he'll have to make one more for Stern.

Speaker: That's a license just as a compromise.

Speaker: What do you think about that?

Speaker: Steve Ritchie games are, they certainly have a feel, you know, they're every, every signature designer and it's the same as any artist.

Speaker: They kind of have a style that you've grown accustomed to.

Speaker: With Steve Ritchie, it's flow.

Speaker: And that's what they always describe it at.

Speaker: And when you think about it, what does flow mean?

Speaker: Well, I think flow means that you don't have to trap up to play the game.

Speaker: You can still just keep hitting on the fly and you can still put up a monster score versus like a Pat Lawler game.

Speaker: You kind of have to trap up.

Speaker: Like Pat Lawler is a little more

Speaker: I don't want to say quirky, but a little more it's focused on, okay, do this thing, do this thing.

Speaker: And it's well thought out, kind of like a technician.

Speaker: But Steve Ritchie is, I want it to go on the fly.

Speaker: Now you can still trap up and you can shoot his games.

Speaker: And so it's not like they are limited to that.

Speaker: But his is the one game that will allow you just to fly if you want to.

Speaker: And so I think also, Oh, go ahead.

Speaker: Sorry.

Speaker: Oh, no, it's, I just think it's great.

Speaker: If you can keep him going, that's fine.

Speaker: At some point you are, eventually the well will run dry and he, you know, as we all get older, you just can't do it anymore.

Speaker: Or he doesn't want to do it anymore.

Speaker: Um, if he does an original theme, I, I'm kind of with Gary on this.

Speaker: Like I, I love the idea of original themes.

Speaker: But you need to look at outside of the diehard fans.

Speaker: So when you see Jersey Jack going with Dialed In, yes, it's a Pat Lawler game.

Speaker: But how many people outside of the pinball community even know who Pat Lawler is?

Speaker: And they'll look at that game and they have no idea like, okay, so this is interesting.

Speaker: Because they really haven't been doing this for 20 years.

Speaker: You know, doing it...

Speaker: Since the Bally Williams day, they haven't been doing original themes.

Speaker: And so I think people with their instant gratification, five seconds attention span, if you don't have that...

Speaker: that thing that draws you in, you're not going to get the casual guy to go up.

Speaker: Now, you may get someone who is, hey, what's this?

Speaker: I'm curious.

Speaker: I'm going to try that.

Speaker: And yes, Dialed In is a fantastic game.

Speaker: But I also understand Gary's point.

Speaker: Gary's point is, hey, let's tether onto a known brand that's already paid a lot of money for marketing this.

Speaker: And even when you divide it up, a license costs, you know, 300 bucks a game or so.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So it can't be like, I understand why Gary says it.

Speaker: And I, I actually side with Gary on this.

Speaker: Well, and here's some other stuff too that I've learned over the last week is I was talking with a distributor and he said just unlicensed teams don't sell.

Speaker: They don't like touching them.

Speaker: They're not huge fans of them.

Speaker: I mean, look at Total Nuclear Annihilation.

Speaker: Fantastic.

Speaker: Game of the Year.

Speaker: No, sorry.

Speaker: Dialed In was Game of the Year.

Speaker: I apologize.

Speaker: But between Dialed In and Total Nuclear Annihilation of 2018, those went home with all the twippies it felt like.

Speaker: And it was a great success for Spooky, but that's 550 games.

Speaker: That's nothing for Stern.

Speaker: And you look at Dialed In, you know, Wizard of Oz is our top seller right now, followed closely by Hobbit, and then Dialed In is at the bottom.

Speaker: And I was talking to the distributor.

Speaker: He says he still hasn't sold out of all of his LEs for Dialed In.

Speaker: It doesn't perform well on location because he's got two out on location.

Speaker: They're not mechanically reliable, so they're not good towards operators.

Speaker: You look on the flip side of Star Wars.

Speaker: Star Wars isn't considered a brilliant game by pinball standards to us right now, maybe 10 years ago.

Speaker: But a lot of people complain that it's a flow-rich-y game with stop-and-start rules.

Speaker: And so there's a lot of disconnect in the gameplay.

Speaker: But I was talking to an operator friend of mine, and he said he would buy new Star Wars games any day because they perform on location ridiculously well.

Speaker: He said Star Wars is bringing in money hand over fist compared to his other pinball machines.

Speaker: He had a dialed-in on location, my operator friend.

Speaker: He doesn't anymore because there's no reason to have it out there.

Speaker: He said it never got played.

Speaker: It just didn't get nickels in it because he runs a nickel arcade.

Speaker: But you've got Star Wars where he's got nickel arcades, he's putting out in bars, he's putting in bowling alleys because it performs very, very well.

Speaker: And so it's funny because you've got the pinball community saying, hey, we want Pat Lawler.

Speaker: Hey, we want these designs that we know that we love that aren't necessarily tied to a theme.

Speaker: But then you've got these themes that are paying for everything else.

Speaker: So I sadly right now, I agree with Gary Stern as well.

Speaker: You've got to have a theme that ties well with your pinball machine.

Speaker: I don't think that's necessarily bad, though, because I've said it before.

Speaker: I bought my first pinball machine based on dumb luck and theme.

Speaker: I saw The Simpsons and I said, let's get it.

Speaker: I would have no idea if it were a total nuclear annihilation.

Speaker: Like I would have no idea.

Speaker: I'd be like, oh, that's a cool 80s retro thing.

Speaker: I grew up in the 80s.

Speaker: Sure, why not?

Speaker: But I don't know if that would really draw me in.

Speaker: And I think that in some ways, pinball enthusiasts, this is where I'm going to get into.

Speaker: And I think you'll see kind of my bias when it comes into the Twippies coming up.

Speaker: This is where I have a hard time with like the Oscars when it comes to Oscar times.

Speaker: Like they have all these major movies out there that make hundreds of millions of dollars and they give the best picture to something that makes 20 million.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And.

Speaker: Okay, sure, for maybe the movie enthusiasts who say, oh, well, you didn't really catch X, Y, or Z. Okay, fine, but the public has spoken.

Speaker: The public has spoken, said, this isn't the best movie because it only made $20 million.

Speaker: If it were the best movie, it would have at least made $100 million.

Speaker: And so when you're talking about like, yes, it's great to have these small things now that, that being said, what you can say is that putting into like an arcade, you need to build a mix.

Speaker: It's just like building an album back in the day where yes, you'd have the two or three big hits that they would put out as singles.

Speaker: But then a lot of times you come for the singles, but you stay for the other stuff that you end up liking more, but it doesn't end up being that radio catch song.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And so if you have a bar or an arcade or whatever that has a Star Wars with a dialed in, with a total nuclear annihilation, with, you know, a Pirates of the Caribbean.

Speaker: Yes, they'll come in and they'll say, hey, I'm going to try the Star Wars.

Speaker: And then they may look at that and say, huh, what's that?

Speaker: Maybe I'll try that.

Speaker: But it's like if you buy an album that doesn't have a single on it, you're not going to sell the album.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yep, it's true.

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: I've been thinking more and more about theme and gameplay, and I guess it draws me back to the 90s because, in my opinion, that's kind of where pinball was starting to get figured out because we were going from short play times to longer game plays and more theme integration as well.

Speaker: You had a story.

Speaker: You had a story.

Speaker: Yeah, you had a story.

Speaker: And the two, the two companies that were big back then were, uh, Stern and were Bally Williams and Stern was just getting in or data East slash Sega slash Stern, whatever you want to call it.

Speaker: And even back then, they're not considered the masterpieces, the data Easts.

Speaker: Um, but they're great games and they're all theme based.

Speaker: And you look at the Bally Williams, the, all, all the ones that we covet and say, they're the best.

Speaker: It,

Speaker: So what if it's the shadow?

Speaker: The gameplay is amazing.

Speaker: So what if it's giant mnemonic?

Speaker: The gameplay is amazing.

Speaker: But the thing is, is the greatest selling pinball machine was Adam's family from Valley Williams.

Speaker: And they favored innovation over theme, which we love.

Speaker: But it ultimately makes me wonder if they would have been more theme focused.

Speaker: Would it have been more successful?

Speaker: Absolutely.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And it's kind of like the...

Speaker: The Bally Williams, they won the battle but lost the war when you look at it.

Speaker: And yes, I totally know that really Williams was still profitable when they pulled the plug on the pinball division because they wanted to focus on slot machines.

Speaker: And so, yes, so people always argue, well, it was still profitable.

Speaker: They just decided to go for more profits somewhere else.

Speaker: Okay, I get it.

Speaker: But really, when Data East started saying, hey, let's go after big licenses and see if that can hook people, then they had something.

Speaker: And really, they kind of got away with it for a while.

Speaker: They got away from it in that

Speaker: you know, that basically the 2006 to 2010 era when they had a few that had a big license, but a lot of them were kind of B grade licenses in my opinion.

Speaker: Um, I would say the eight licenses in the two thousands would be like the Simpsons and, uh, and Lord of the Rings and Spider-Man and name anything else that has like a, a,

Speaker: a marquee license.

Speaker: I mean, you're going to put big buck buck hunter.

Speaker: You're going to put a, you're going to put wheel of fortune.

Speaker: You're going to know Austin.

Speaker: Austin powers was pretty big.

Speaker: Jeez.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: I mean, maybe you could maybe say that was a big license, but really, you know, you've got, Oh, I forgot pirates of the Caribbean.

Speaker: They're pirates of the Caribbean.

Speaker: So yes, you got four out of whatever they've done.

Speaker: And so like those are the ones that still have good resale value.

Speaker: People are still buying those.

Speaker: Well, like Jeff, like our buddy Jeff from the Pinball Podcast said, you know, look at Sopranos versus Lord of the Rings.

Speaker: The layouts are so scary similar that if you were to just take the themes off, it'd probably be pretty much the same game.

Speaker: The thing that defines them is the gameplay and the theme.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And that's what makes Lord of the Rings so coveted amongst all the fans and everything.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And really I would love Lord of the Rings too.

Speaker: And I'm not sure that I would want Lord of the Rings.

Speaker: I've had the same rule set, the same gameplay and Pokemon Island adventure.

Speaker: I just don't think so.

Speaker: So let's move on to Texas pinball festival.

Speaker: We had a new game revealed.

Speaker: We had the company reveal a game and yeah, let's go from there.

Speaker: What did you think?

Speaker: Let's start with the new reveal.

Speaker: How about that?

Speaker: What did you think of cosmic carnival?

Speaker: Yeah, you know, I will say when you sent me this and I thought, oh, this sounds interesting.

Speaker: I thought it was like Cosmic Chaos, like the Mark Ritchie game that they teased last year.

Speaker: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker: And I thought, oh, that's really cool.

Speaker: That's a lot of planning to say, hey, we did this.

Speaker: I thought this would have been a great small company release.

Speaker: We teased it last year as a theme, and then people had some positive vibes on it.

Speaker: And so, yeah, we just go ahead and made this pinball.

Speaker: And it would have been kind of cool to be kind of a retro, like a meteor or something like that.

Speaker: I, so I, I was in my mindset, I was dialed in for that one.

Speaker: And then I, I was like, oh, well, okay.

Speaker: This is like scary clown show.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: It kind of does look like killer clowns from outer space.

Speaker: Yeah, it kind of does.

Speaker: And so like, I, I think it's, I think it's great.

Speaker: Um, it's, I,

Speaker: I hope that it finds a market.

Speaker: I think it's kind of hard for these small companies to try to find a niche with something that is completely unlicensed.

Speaker: It's just kind of a niche thing.

Speaker: And who knows, maybe that works.

Speaker: I mean, Spooky did it with America's Most Haunted.

Speaker: However, if you know the documentary on it, they really hit a few things and they're lucky to be a business now.

Speaker: Like, I hope that these small boutique companies, they're able to find a niche.

Speaker: It looks interesting.

Speaker: I didn't shoot it.

Speaker: I thought it looked pretty in the right environment.

Speaker: I think it could do something.

Speaker: But you also look at what did Spooky do?

Speaker: The next thing they came out with was a licensed theme.

Speaker: Okay, it was Rob Zombie, and it was still kind of a niche thing.

Speaker: But people who knew it said, hey, I want to buy it because it's a Rob Zombie game.

Speaker: And then they went off with Total Nuclear Annihilation, which was, I would say, a success for the pinball crowd and for their market.

Speaker: But I'm hoping that they'll be able to do something with this kind of small market release when they haven't been able to build that kind of buzz.

Speaker: And really, there is already a spooky pinball out there.

Speaker: So if you want kind of a niche, quirky game, they have that option.

Speaker: You know, after looking at the whole game...

Speaker: I haven't really looked much at the gameplay or how it plays.

Speaker: I mean, obviously we weren't there, so I didn't have my hands on it to tell you how the gameplay is.

Speaker: But looking at the play field, I felt it was kind of basic, maybe samey-same.

Speaker: A game you saw in the early 90s.

Speaker: The artwork is beautiful.

Speaker: Dirty Donny did great.

Speaker: Yes, but but it almost looks Aerosmith with the colors.

Speaker: And yeah, I don't know how to describe it.

Speaker: I just I don't know.

Speaker: I'm not excited for this one.

Speaker: I mean, it's a it is original theme, but it does nothing for me.

Speaker: I'm not huge on clowns.

Speaker: I saw that there was modes, but without playing it, I don't know what they're going to be.

Speaker: And then they might shoot like butter, man.

Speaker: It might be the perfect little shooter, but I just nothing.

Speaker: We're getting to the point of the game where pinball prices are so expensive that if something doesn't blow me out of the water, I just tend to ignore it.

Speaker: And that's kind of where I'm at with cosmic cart or not cosmic cart cosmic carnival.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And I'm just, I'm not super impressed with it.

Speaker: I mean, it's a great looking game, but I just, like I said, I need to get my hands on it.

Speaker: Did they announce a price?

Speaker: No, they did not.

Speaker: Not that I like it.

Speaker: I'll hurry and look it up.

Speaker: What would you buy it for?

Speaker: I wouldn't buy it, though.

Speaker: That's the thing.

Speaker: There's so much other good pinball machines out there.

Speaker: Why would I buy that one?

Speaker: Unless you're going to be competing with a Stern Pro and you're basically getting the crowd who – I would say the counterculture crowd, the I don't want the popular game.

Speaker: I want the niche game.

Speaker: But I still have, you know, 5,300 or whatever they're costing nowadays.

Speaker: I still have that burning a hole in my pocket.

Speaker: But unless it's a game like a Total Nuclear Annihilation or maybe even an Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle, are you really going to put your hard-earned money down?

Speaker: Like, not if it's your first pin or second, maybe if it's your tenth and you're looking at, like, diversity in a collection, but

Speaker: you really have to go pretty far down that road to break into the market.

Speaker: So I'm hoping they find something.

Speaker: I'm just, I'm not optimistic.

Speaker: I'm not either.

Speaker: Well, and like I said, there's just so much good pinball machines out there.

Speaker: And I'm not saying Cosmic Carmel is not good pinball.

Speaker: I'm just saying there's so much to detract from it that I just I don't see it as something that will tickle my fancy, so to speak.

Speaker: So I hope I'm surprised.

Speaker: I really do.

Speaker: But I just don't know.

Speaker: Here's the other thing, though, too.

Speaker: Price does but doesn't play a point into it.

Speaker: I mean, look at Thunderbirds.

Speaker: That's the cheapest game out in the market.

Speaker: But everyone, I mean, if it had fantastic rules, maybe people would be talking about it.

Speaker: I just don't know.

Speaker: Or if it shot well.

Speaker: At least with that one.

Speaker: And there were some issues with it not even being comparable to standard ones.

Speaker: So, yeah.

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: I wish every new company well, and I hope you sell a billion of them.

Speaker: I'm just looking at it from the marketing hat and thinking it's unlikely.

Speaker: Yeah, I agree.

Speaker: Well, speaking of marketing and whatnot, let's move on to Jersey Jack's big reveal.

Speaker: So this one's been predicted quite a while ago.

Speaker: I can't remember who broke the news on it, but Jersey Jack decided to reveal...

Speaker: the yellow brick road edition of wizard of Oz.

Speaker: There were some broken hearts cause they were expecting Willy Wonka or toy, a toy story, but it was the yellow brick road edition.

Speaker: Let's not talk about price just yet.

Speaker: Let's talk about what, what did you think of it?

Speaker: Cause you sent me the pictures as soon as they revealed it.

Speaker: You know what?

Speaker: It, it makes me feel like, like Jersey Jack has like a, a backfire in their engine.

Speaker: You know how there's a car that's just not quite running smoothly and you're trying to hit the gas and it just backfires and kind of stalls out or you have to do something like that.

Speaker: They have beautiful games.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: So let's just put this in perspective.

Speaker: So what year was Wizard of Oz announced?

Speaker: 2011, but don't hold me to it.

Speaker: I want to say it was around that.

Speaker: So when was it actually delivered?

Speaker: I want to say 2012, 2013.

Speaker: I think it was later than that.

Speaker: Let's see.

Speaker: I am going to look this up because this is going to make my point.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: while you're looking that up, here's the other thing though, too.

Speaker: This is what keeps getting my brain going.

Speaker: So Jersey Jack announces back in 2011 that they're making wizard of Oz.

Speaker: It's 2019.

Speaker: It's been eight years now and you can correct me on that if I'm wrong, but in that time span, they've made four games.

Speaker: Count them four.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: So you are getting exactly like, this is the point that I'm trying to make is that let's just say, okay, it says the release date is 2013.

Speaker: So just on the,

Speaker: on the Wikipedia page, okay?

Speaker: All right, so let's just say 2013, okay?

Speaker: Now, let's just sit back a minute, okay?

Speaker: So since 2013, they've released Wizard of Oz, they've released The Hobbit, they've released Dialed In, and they've released Pirates of the Caribbean, right?

Speaker: Correct, yes.

Speaker: Well, hold your breath.

Speaker: Let me tell you what Stern's done.

Speaker: Metallica.

Speaker: They've done Star Trek.

Speaker: They've done Mustang.

Speaker: They've done Walking Dead.

Speaker: They've done WrestleMania.

Speaker: They've done Kiss.

Speaker: They've done Game of Thrones.

Speaker: They've done Woe Nelly.

Speaker: They've done Spider-Man Vault Edition.

Speaker: They've done Ghostbusters.

Speaker: They've done Batman 66, Aerosmith, Star Wars, Guardians of the Galaxy, Iron Maiden, Deadpool, The Beatles, The Munsters.

Speaker: Sweet dang.

Speaker: I don't know what to say to that.

Speaker: So that is – this is my argument going back to like Stern is the alpha dog in the argument.

Speaker: Yeah, and you can totally – I will totally get behind that, yes, Stern was on this slow death spiral until Jersey Jack entered the market and said, hey, you're not doing it very well.

Speaker: We're going to do it better.

Speaker: And then Stern said, huh, OK, that's how it is.

Speaker: Let me show you what we can do.

Speaker: And they just dropped a crazy amount of games.

Speaker: So let's just count those up.

Speaker: And this isn't even talking about the premium versus the LE or the pro.

Speaker: So really, and that's even harder to do than what Jersey Jack is doing.

Speaker: Because they are making two different games.

Speaker: So let's just say so Metallica one, Star Trek two, Mustang three, Walking Dead four, WrestleMania five, Kiss six, Game of Thrones seven, Will Nelly eight, Spider-Man Vault Edition nine.

Speaker: You can may or may not take that.

Speaker: Ghostbusters 10, Batman 66, 11, Aerosmith 12, Star Wars 13, Guardians of the Galaxy 14, Iron Maiden 13,

Speaker: 15, Deadpool 16, Beatles 17, Munsters 18.

Speaker: So even if you threw two of those out, that is a 16 to four ratio on releasing.

Speaker: So this is where I'm looking at this and saying that, man, I want to pull in.

Speaker: By the way, I've got a Wizard of Oz downstairs.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: And so I am, I am a fan.

Speaker: I love what they do.

Speaker: I want to get a dialed in at some point.

Speaker: So I'm a, I'm a fan, but you cannot win at that ratio, a 16 to four ratio.

Speaker: And even if you develop a, a special edition wizard of Oz and says, yes, we're going to make it cooler and

Speaker: Who are they catering to?

Speaker: This is where I have to ask from a marketing standpoint.

Speaker: Who are they catering to?

Speaker: Because is there really a market for this?

Speaker: And maybe there is.

Speaker: I really hope there is.

Speaker: But like if you think about it, how much are they making on pinball machines?

Speaker: Two, maybe $3,000?

Speaker: Let's just assume that, okay?

Speaker: If you're doing $2,000 or $3,000 and maybe this is going to be another $2,000 or $3,000 for me?

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: $4,000 maybe for Yellow Brick Road for getting like special bling and whatnot.

Speaker: Maybe three.

Speaker: So, you know, $3,000 times 200.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Let's just assume that Stern makes a grand on each one of them.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Let's just assume Stern makes a grand.

Speaker: Like how much do you think they're going to make over the next year with four releases and being able to pump out a few thousand versus their 200?

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Like it's just like something just is not connecting.

Speaker: And so I don't know what to say.

Speaker: Like I would love to see from their development standpoint, but I want to say, man, I love what you're doing, but you're so ambitious with what you're trying to do.

Speaker: Like it's, you're like, you're building a McLaren race car.

Speaker: But they only make $200 versus Ford, which is Ford is making thousands of cars versus your $200.

Speaker: You're just not going to work.

Speaker: Hey, just a second.

Speaker: Hey, what's up, sweetheart?

Speaker: What's up?

Speaker: What are you talking to?

Speaker: What am I talking about?

Speaker: I know.

Speaker: I'm talking about pinball.

Speaker: It's crazy, huh?

Speaker: What are you talking to?

Speaker: Yeah, I'm talking to Josh.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Good night, honey.

Speaker: Okay?

Speaker: Why do I have headphones on?

Speaker: Because that's how I hear.

Speaker: Okay, guys.

Speaker: Hey, I love you.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Okay, go to bed.

Speaker: Josh.

Speaker: Josh.

Speaker: Josh Rube.

Speaker: He's come out.

Speaker: Carter's his son.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: Have fun, guys.

Speaker: Anyway.

Speaker: So you see what I'm saying about JJP is like, I love what they're doing.

Speaker: But at some point, you have to question what they're doing.

Speaker: Well, no one asked for this.

Speaker: No one said that I would love Wizard of Oz in yellow.

Speaker: Honestly, I think ruby red is probably the perfect color for Wizard of Oz.

Speaker: I enjoyed the emerald green.

Speaker: It makes sense because there was the Emerald City.

Speaker: Why are we going yellow brick road?

Speaker: I get that it's the yellow brick road.

Speaker: But why?

Speaker: Why are we going yellow?

Speaker: And you're taking out the monkey mechanic, but it's still on the screen, quote unquote.

Speaker: This is a game that I've been personally looking for for my wife.

Speaker: She wants a Wizard of Oz.

Speaker: But the problem is you sink so much money into it that, first off, that's a lot of money sent in my garage.

Speaker: And if I end up not liking it,

Speaker: and my wife wants to keep it, I'm out that amount of money.

Speaker: She said her two themes she wants right now is a WorldWin or Wizard of Oz.

Speaker: Which one am I going to buy?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: You know what I'm saying?

Speaker: I would rather have a WorldWin sitting, not getting played in my garage, versus a Wizard of Oz at $7,000, $8,000 plus.

Speaker: And the resale value on these things are hard.

Speaker: People don't want to buy Wizard of Oz because you can still buy them new.

Speaker: or you're buying one that you don't know if it's going to have mechanical issues with or not.

Speaker: And so I just don't understand the concept of why we keep going back to we need to build more Wizard of Oz's.

Speaker: I get it's an evergreen title, but this didn't really deserve a reveal in my opinion.

Speaker: It's something, it's almost, I don't know, it's almost a slap in the face.

Speaker: And the reason being is, is you've got people out there that have these quote unquote limited editions,

Speaker: And they're not limited at all.

Speaker: He's just essentially slapping limited edition on it like Stern does premium.

Speaker: Just call it a premium.

Speaker: That's what it is.

Speaker: Because the upgrade from that is the collector's edition.

Speaker: So why are we calling them limited when, in fact, they're not going to be limited?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I don't like the limited logo just because I... Okay, obviously...

Speaker: You need to look at it from what they're doing.

Speaker: And really, there are people who will buy it based on it's limited.

Speaker: Okay?

Speaker: So that is a fact because I guarantee they would not have sold 500 Rob Zombies or 450 or whatever they did if it were just like, hey, we're making these.

Speaker: You want to buy it?

Speaker: And so there are people who feel like they want that limited plaque and it means something to them.

Speaker: It doesn't mean anything to me, but I, that is my perspective.

Speaker: And I do have a Ruby red, the limited edition, but I bought the Ruby red because I liked that edition.

Speaker: You could even just call it the Ruby red edition or the Emerald city edition, but to put limited edition, I think really, I know you're kind of going against stern and saying that, yes, this is our top of the line and this is our top of the line versions.

Speaker: We have different versions of them.

Speaker: But I just don't understand why they're doing it or what the price increase is.

Speaker: The price increase is more puzzling to me than anything.

Speaker: Yeah, let's talk about that really quick.

Speaker: They increased it to 11.5.

Speaker: Why are we going to 11.5?

Speaker: This game was originally 6.5 when it originally came out.

Speaker: Okay, well, no, I will say it wasn't 6.5.

Speaker: That's what people paid for it.

Speaker: And they were trying to break into a market.

Speaker: And so they were losing money on the titles.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: So yes, it was never six, five, but this is, um, so what this is, is, Hey, we have options that we are increasing to put in.

Speaker: So when I bought it, I could have bought the rad decals, which I didn't because I didn't want to pay over $10,000 for a machine.

Speaker: Um, but I, I, I look at it now and it's like, well, maybe I should have slapped those on, but it has like every single bell and whistle option.

Speaker: But they just need to look at what they're doing and they need to figure out how to have an entry level line and a premium line.

Speaker: Because this only selling premiums, I just don't see that as being a great way of doing it.

Speaker: Well, they had standard edition dialed in.

Speaker: Okay, but the standard edition is still the same as a premium.

Speaker: And so it, although it's standard, yeah, it's great, but you need to find something that's a workhorse.

Speaker: And right now they have yet to find a workhorse.

Speaker: And I love what, uh, what they did with, uh, pirates of the Caribbean.

Speaker: But in some ways I thought, man, that is, they put a lot of crazy stuff into that for one release.

Speaker: Like maybe they should have dialed that back a little bit.

Speaker: As opposed to trying to shoot for the moon every time.

Speaker: Sometimes you have to hit base hits.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So I don't know.

Speaker: I root for Jersey Jack.

Speaker: I love what they do.

Speaker: But it's just I don't understand their business model.

Speaker: I think that it needs to be modified.

Speaker: I think this is why there's so much excitement for Deep Root as well.

Speaker: I think someone's craving to see innovation but competition with Stern.

Speaker: Really, the biggest competition right now would be Chicago Gaming, and they're just doing remakes.

Speaker: That's all they're doing right now.

Speaker: And the nice part about Chicago Gaming is they are fed by another industry as well with other games.

Speaker: But really, there's not much innovation outside of Stern at this point when it comes to pinball.

Speaker: Spooky's doing good, but it's one game every 18 months to two years.

Speaker: Same with Jersey Jack.

Speaker: We've got four games in almost, what did we say, eight years, seven years.

Speaker: You're never going to compete.

Speaker: And Americans trying to catch up.

Speaker: I mean, they've got Oktoberfest and they've got Houdini.

Speaker: So I think the window's narrowing.

Speaker: They need to figure out, and the sad thing is,

Speaker: There's like the Batman 66 type backlash with Kamikawa, right?

Speaker: And that's kind of like a Jersey Jack thing.

Speaker: However, I would say the Jersey Jack price without all the Jersey Jack bells and whistles.

Speaker: But I think that with... So Stern did have some backlash against, oh, well, if they only made a pro in a Batman 6, I'm like, fine, just don't buy it.

Speaker: They have four games a year.

Speaker: So what?

Speaker: You don't buy that game.

Speaker: But I just wish that Jersey Jack could figure out their...

Speaker: their guiding star, whatever their game plan is, because I just don't see it lasting.

Speaker: They're still not making money.

Speaker: So at some point your investors are going to say, I think we're done.

Speaker: And I would hate for that to happen.

Speaker: Yeah, I don't blame you.

Speaker: I just, I just, I don't know how to think of Jersey Jack anymore.

Speaker: I really don't.

Speaker: So I'm puzzled with the, cause it seems, it seems like they don't have a, a great path forward.

Speaker: If they, they released the black arrow edition of the,

Speaker: So on Hobbit, they had the limited edition.

Speaker: Then they had the smog edition.

Speaker: Then they had the black arrow edition.

Speaker: And they probably sold like three of those black arrow editions.

Speaker: Cause they said, Oh, there's one more mode.

Speaker: And everyone said, great.

Speaker: I'll add that to the 400 other modes.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Is one more mode really that, that critical?

Speaker: I would argue not.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Well, let's move on.

Speaker: We've got some other stuff to cover.

Speaker: One quick thing I wanted to bring up, though, before we move on to the Twippies is we talked about Steve Ritchie, this possibly being his last game.

Speaker: This is my hope.

Speaker: If it is his last game, I hope Stern waves that flag as high as they can.

Speaker: And either it's Texas Pinball Festival next year or Pinball Expo this fall, they have pretty much like a dedication to Steve Ritchie.

Speaker: I think that would be awesome for that.

Speaker: That'd be cool.

Speaker: They kind of do it in soccer.

Speaker: Like if it's a retirement year for soccer, then they kind of honor that player for the rest of the year because it's his final year.

Speaker: Do it for Steve Ritchie, man.

Speaker: He's been in the market 42 years.

Speaker: He needs...

Speaker: he needs a farewell send off.

Speaker: That's epic.

Speaker: Well, I, I'm glad he's going out on a high note though.

Speaker: I mean, he really is.

Speaker: He, he's had this amazing, like this pinball Renaissance has really revitalized some of these guys who really, I think we're kind of depressed at the end of their career.

Speaker: I mean, Pat Lawler was basically just on a, you know, on the salvage yard because he wasn't really doing anything after having all these legendary games.

Speaker: So I'm, if nothing else, I'm really glad that they've had this,

Speaker: this excellent way of wrapping up their career whenever that is.

Speaker: So let's move on to the Twippies.

Speaker: I know that you didn't watch this.

Speaker: I watched bits and pieces here, but I was able to get all the people that won.

Speaker: So let's go over this.

Speaker: You ready for it?

Speaker: Bring it on.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: I'm going to do this in the order that they were actually announced and won.

Speaker: So starting off the first, before we get into this, Greg and Zach, awesome job.

Speaker: you guys did great.

Speaker: My pros to this show really quick.

Speaker: Uh, it was very professional.

Speaker: I love the cut scenes.

Speaker: It was almost like an Oscars.

Speaker: Um,

Speaker: The things that I would prefer that you guys work on for next year, I know this isn't Zach and Greg, or maybe it is them that's doing this.

Speaker: The lighting was really harsh.

Speaker: You were getting some crazy shadows up there.

Speaker: And it was, I felt too zoomed up.

Speaker: Oh, and the one last thing was, is the podium.

Speaker: It had to be like higher.

Speaker: Everyone kept having to lean down to put their mouth on the microphone.

Speaker: And you guys probably saw that.

Speaker: You probably saw that that's what was happening.

Speaker: But that was just from my perspective, from a seat at home, that's what I was seeing.

Speaker: Okay, so first one, best music and sound effects.

Speaker: If you guys want to follow along at home, I'll link the website in the show notes so you can follow along with the people for the categories.

Speaker: But we're going to go for it right here.

Speaker: So Scott, what machine do you think or you think should have won

Speaker: best music and sound effects.

Speaker: So, uh, so I was talking to Josh about this earlier, so I, I'm going to take it a little different and I'm going to say which, which one I think won, but also I'm going to say which one probably should have won.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: And when I look at this, here's what I think won.

Speaker: I think Pirates of the Caribbean won.

Speaker: And because I,

Speaker: It's, it's epic.

Speaker: I mean, really pirates of the Caribbean should have been called a Lord of the Rings plus the Hobbit together on everything they did for that.

Speaker: And so we're talking like an encyclopedic depth of, of sound of everything that they were able to incorporate five different things.

Speaker: However, it,

Speaker: I don't want to, the challenge of that is saying that, do you have to be epic to win?

Speaker: Because I'm not sure that that's really what's going to do.

Speaker: Because I would lean toward thinking, well, Iron Maiden certainly has a solid package.

Speaker: Now, that being said, I will say that I would likely say that the sound would go to Pirates of the Caribbean.

Speaker: So the actual person that won was Iron Maiden for best music and sound.

Speaker: And I did think like, now I will say, I'm one of the outliers.

Speaker: I love the theme Iron Maiden.

Speaker: As I said before, it was my first concert when I was like in 1988, when I was like 13, I snuck out and went to Iron Maiden.

Speaker: So I am not one of those guys that says I want this rethemed.

Speaker: I love it.

Speaker: And I know they got the great call outs there.

Speaker: Um, I think that it's certainly, if I were to rank, if I'd probably rank pirates one, iron maiden two.

Speaker: And so I think that's a solid choice.

Speaker: I agree.

Speaker: I really do.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Best homebrew.

Speaker: This is one that I kind of follow.

Speaker: I don't know if you follow it.

Speaker: I don't.

Speaker: So go ahead and tell me what happened there in your analysis because I don't know much about homebrews.

Speaker: So there's a couple of homebrews out there that are – they had Airplane.

Speaker: They had Kill Bill.

Speaker: But the one that actually ended up taking it was Nightmare Before Christmas.

Speaker: And Mark and City, man, he is fantastic looking at this machine.

Speaker: It is just – my only complaint to the machine is the little dark.

Speaker: But other than that –

Speaker: for a gentleman that's went through and it's his baby, man, this thing is amazing.

Speaker: They just streamed it this week and it's just so cool.

Speaker: The shot that I love is where it kicks.

Speaker: It goes into a kickback on the left side.

Speaker: Um, so you know how you have like a, a kickback and then you have your out lane and then you have your in lane.

Speaker: And if you're paying attention to what goes into that kickback, you hold up the right flipper.

Speaker: Sorry, there's four flippers on the game.

Speaker: And the right side has a right side flipper like you'd have on Jurassic Park, whatever it may be.

Speaker: If you're paying attention, that kickback will actually shoot it under the flipper if you're holding it up into what's called the soup.

Speaker: And then you get extra points for that.

Speaker: And so there's just some really cool little innovations that are on it.

Speaker: And...

Speaker: It's just, I don't know, it's a really cool game for a gentleman that's done it all himself.

Speaker: So I was very happy to see that he had won it because it's very well deserved.

Speaker: I do enjoy the Kill Bill one.

Speaker: It's pretty cool.

Speaker: And same with the other ones that are out there.

Speaker: But I was pretty impressed with this one.

Speaker: Yeah, anybody who's willing to make a machine at home, God bless them is all I can say because I can barely change a light bulb.

Speaker: So if they're able to do something on their own and build an entire pinball machine, then I say they get all the accolades in the world.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: So moving on to the next one, best call outs.

Speaker: Best call outs.

Speaker: Now, I will say that there are two ways of looking at this.

Speaker: And really, when you look at all the options,

Speaker: there really comes down to the two big options.

Speaker: There's pirates of the Caribbean and there's iron.

Speaker: And, and you can look at all the other ones, but really all the other ones are kind of like smaller releases or, and you can, you could even, I almost say dead tools, smaller release, but really those are the ones that are going to take home the majority of the attention.

Speaker: Um,

Speaker: I like the attitude of Pirates of the Caribbean having the same guy do all the call outs.

Speaker: But I think it'll have to go to Iron Maiden just because of the way that they integrated all that sound package.

Speaker: They got the two perfect voice actors and it really integrates really well.

Speaker: So I'd be surprised if it's anybody else.

Speaker: best call outs actually went to Deadpool.

Speaker: Really?

Speaker: And wow.

Speaker: Yes, it did.

Speaker: And actually the gentleman that plays the voice of Deadpool, he's played it in every last 15 years when it comes to estimation, animation, everything.

Speaker: It made sense to me that Deadpool one, I do like the call outs.

Speaker: It's very spot on what Deadpool is in my mind.

Speaker: That is what Deadpool is.

Speaker: I know everyone said it should have been the movie with Ryan Reynolds, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker: I really enjoy where they went with, with Deadpool on this one.

Speaker: So, yeah, but no, that's what won best call out.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And in Deadpool, I, I always, I feel that the, um, the animation is actually the right way to go.

Speaker: It's the same thing with, uh, with X-Men.

Speaker: I have an X-Men.

Speaker: I love it because of the way the art package is with the comic book style.

Speaker: Spider-Man, and I know that's what people were calling out for the...

Speaker: for the vault edition because they didn't like the movie because the movie eventually seems dated.

Speaker: So, uh, I'll give it to Deadpool, uh, where I play Deadpool.

Speaker: I can't hear the call outs very well because it's in a bar where they have everything turned way down.

Speaker: So.

Speaker: Alrighty.

Speaker: Next one.

Speaker: And honestly, I don't know if we should spend much time on this one.

Speaker: It's pretty straightforward.

Speaker: The best tournament.

Speaker: No, you know, it's, there's, there's Pinberg and everybody else.

Speaker: so yeah exactly i i don't see how that that's even a category it's yeah it's it's pinberg yeah it's pinberg until until proven otherwise all right moving on we got best toys and gimmicks um i don't know if i have a strong feeling on the the best toy i think the alice cooper nightmare castle is really cool um yeah i also i

Speaker: I like the cosmic kart racing just because, and that's more of a ramp thing, but it's just, it's a different vibe.

Speaker: I don't know if I have a strong feeling on this.

Speaker: So what one was Pirates of the Caribbean with the rocking ship?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I guess I wouldn't see, I don't know.

Speaker: Everybody's interpretation is different.

Speaker: because i wouldn't really consider anything that pirates does as a gimmick i would consider it a feature so but pirates we talked about this is that how loaded pirates is with everything you could probably pick five different elements in pirates and give that the award so all right best mod who do you think who brought home the best mod

Speaker: I think it has to be Penn stadium.

Speaker: Uh, yeah, it's Penn stadium.

Speaker: Like really, who else is it going to be at this point?

Speaker: Like, don't get me wrong.

Speaker: There's a lot of great modders out there.

Speaker: We appreciate what you do.

Speaker: But I think the problem is, is pin stadium is something that's user universally used on every pinball machine, just kind of like color DMD where the other stuff is more game specific.

Speaker: So, and color DMD is fantastic.

Speaker: Pin stadium transforms game play.

Speaker: Like I know we didn't really, we didn't really talk about this on, on the show, but you know, the, the winner of the tournament that was winning, that was wearing a headlamp.

Speaker: You know, he looked like a spelunker, right?

Speaker: He looked like the guy from at the end of Incredibles where he pops up and he's the mole man.

Speaker: But the reason why he was wearing it is so he could actually see the ball.

Speaker: And so it wasn't like a color feature or something pretty.

Speaker: This actually transforms the game.

Speaker: So I have Black Rose downstairs and I put the Penn Stadium in there and Invisiglass.

Speaker: And my wife came and said, I never even knew there was a ship in the back of the play field.

Speaker: So that has completely changed the game.

Speaker: Otherwise, okay, so what?

Speaker: I glue a doll in there of a female pirate?

Speaker: That's not doing anything.

Speaker: No, it's not.

Speaker: All right, best theme.

Speaker: And this is theme alone.

Speaker: This isn't game playing.

Speaker: This is just the theme of the machine.

Speaker: Who had the best theme?

Speaker: Theme alone.

Speaker: Hands down, it's got to be the Beatles because the Beatles people have been asking for it for years.

Speaker: And so if you're just to say list out all of the themes, the Beatles is that's the unobtainium that they never thought was going to happen.

Speaker: And so I would put the Beatles as now.

Speaker: However, I love Iron Maiden, so I would take Iron Maiden.

Speaker: But I think it's the Beatles, you know, and now that you bring that up, I can totally see that I could see the Beatles being the best theme of this year, but it's not the one that actually took it.

Speaker: Deadpool is actually what took it.

Speaker: Yeah, I guess.

Speaker: If it were the movie, then I would say sure.

Speaker: Because I think that I am not – I read – I was first introduced to Deadpool when I read comics in the 90s.

Speaker: And he was a new character then.

Speaker: So I get it.

Speaker: But I think that people were really kind of hoping for that Ryan Reynolds character, which is not really my bag of tea, but I know that people really like it.

Speaker: I would say it's the Beatles, though, because you vote with price.

Speaker: So how much does something cost?

Speaker: And the Beatles cost more than anything.

Speaker: Oh, yeah, I guess.

Speaker: All right, next one.

Speaker: We won't spend much time on this one.

Speaker: It's location.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, Logan, probably.

Speaker: And Sunshine.

Speaker: The places that are on my bucket list to go to, there's Logan.

Speaker: I would love to go to Logan.

Speaker: I would love to go to Sunshine.

Speaker: I'd love to go to another world down in Australia.

Speaker: I'd love to go to the Museum of Pinball, the Pinball Hall.

Speaker: All those, sure.

Speaker: Pick your favorite.

Speaker: Fine.

Speaker: I didn't put any of those because I've never been to any of those.

Speaker: So it didn't shock me when Logan Arcade won, though.

Speaker: They did a good job.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: OK, best light show.

Speaker: Do you know what?

Speaker: I'm going to go with Monster Bash Remake.

Speaker: See, and that's what I would have went with too, but I don't know if that falls in this category because Monster Bash didn't start technically shipping until January.

Speaker: It was revealed in October.

Speaker: Yeah, I would put it because with the way they changed the lighting and they integrated it and you can actually see the different modes and it really has a good feel.

Speaker: I'm guessing, well, lighting.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I'm guessing it'd be Iron Maiden.

Speaker: Did Iron Maiden take it or did pirates take it?

Speaker: No pirates.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: This next one isn't even it.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: In my opinion, it's not even a question who should win this one.

Speaker: It's one of those, the, like the tournament pinberg takes it.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Streamer.

Speaker: Well, so streaming is, that is, it's a show, right?

Speaker: And,

Speaker: The guy who started it all is, you know, it's dead flip.

Speaker: He's the Jack danger.

Speaker: He's, he's, he's the guy.

Speaker: And yes, every, he is.

Speaker: Everybody else does it and is great.

Speaker: And,

Speaker: Um, if you want, if you're home and you're like, Hey, what's going on here?

Speaker: Great.

Speaker: You know, Buffalo pinball does a great job.

Speaker: Love watching their streams too.

Speaker: Um, but you know, it's kind of this, this whole persona, like who am I, who do I want to hang out with?

Speaker: Who am I going to?

Speaker: And really he started that.

Speaker: Now, if you want to go with tutorials, you can go with bones tutorials, but it really comes down to it.

Speaker: It's going to be

Speaker: it's going to be a Jack danger.

Speaker: Well, and here's the other thing about Jack, Jack buddy, we love you.

Speaker: Um, you do such a fantastic job and not just for streaming, but for what you do is for the pinball hobby itself.

Speaker: I mean, he is a gentleman that goes out there and is spreading the word of pinball like it's his own religion.

Speaker: The dude is out there with Jeffree Star.

Speaker: He's going into all the the Munsters reveal, the Deadpool reveal.

Speaker: I mean, he's at all these reveals and he I think it was head to head that brought it up.

Speaker: He's one of the only other people besides Roger Sharp that can go from company to company and there's no issue.

Speaker: Um, I think that the joke, he doesn't even have to do an NDA for any of the stuff.

Speaker: It's just pretty much a handshake because they trust him on that stuff.

Speaker: And so what, what Jack danger is doing for the hobby is leaps and bounds in my opinion than anyone else in the hobby, because he just, he is doing what we need to be doing for the hobby.

Speaker: If you want to see it grow.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: He he's, he's basically an ambassador.

Speaker: He's a, he's a non-denominational pinball investor.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Moving on.

Speaker: We got artwork.

Speaker: So, um, so you're going to get down to the, the three biggest names in pinball right now.

Speaker: So you got zombie Yeti, um, you got, uh, um, you got Chris Franchi and you have dirty Donnie.

Speaker: So it's going to be any of those three.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: What about the guy that did all the Alex Cooper stuff?

Speaker: I mean, that looked really good.

Speaker: The Alex Cooper?

Speaker: The Alice Cooper?

Speaker: You know what?

Speaker: It's true.

Speaker: Come on, there's Oktoberfest.

Speaker: Okay, I will say, okay, I loved Oktoberfest.

Speaker: And I'm not even talking like the creepy monkey like that.

Speaker: Like, let's just say, wow, lapse of judgment on that one.

Speaker: But I saw the Oktoberfest like from afar and I thought, that looks awesome.

Speaker: It looks like a, it looks like a Bally Williams come back to life.

Speaker: Like in the 90s, it kind of looked like that.

Speaker: So I was really excited to play it.

Speaker: Haven't got one locally yet, but I'm really interested in it.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I think that when you look at what the options are, I think that how much everything's embraced in a game

Speaker: It's come on.

Speaker: It's zombie Yeti.

Speaker: He did Deadpool and he did Iron Maiden and both of them.

Speaker: Like when, when the Deadpool figure was released or the, the whitewood and that was leaked and everyone looked at it and said, really, that's the game.

Speaker: There's nothing on it.

Speaker: And then when it was revealed what he did, you're, you're,

Speaker: it filled the whole play field and, and, and everyone forgot about that in the way that he did iron maiden and, and got that up.

Speaker: Now, that being said, I, I love the style of all three of those major guys.

Speaker: And we've said it before that on monsters that you and I both went and played it and we both looked at it and I said, wow, this is amazing in person.

Speaker: Like this really feels like something I would have in my house.

Speaker: I love what they did there.

Speaker: uh what chris did there um i just think that with the the deadpool and the iron maiden i just think that because iron maiden was so embraced by the pinball crowd that you have to at least give a nod um to zombie yeti for that one

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: Well, and it was Zombie Yeti who ended up taking it home for Iron Maiden.

Speaker: And that's what I figured.

Speaker: No shocker there.

Speaker: And really, when you look at how much Iron Maiden has changed over the years, being able to dial that back and to say, to try to unify all their different styles, that's a feat unto itself.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: Moving on to YouTube.

Speaker: Who do you think won it for YouTube?

Speaker: You know what?

Speaker: I'll tell you who I would vote for is I would vote for Buffalo.

Speaker: because I love listening to them.

Speaker: And by the way, Nick Lang's a guy that I want to be.

Speaker: Like when he talks, I'm just like, he sounds so cool the way he talks about things.

Speaker: And he just sounds like a guy that you would love to hang out with.

Speaker: He's funny, just chill.

Speaker: And I like watching the Buffalo Pinball guys, even when they do their show and when they do their streaming.

Speaker: So I would vote for that.

Speaker: The thing with YouTube with me, I think it's really hard because a lot of the people that are streaming then just post it on YouTube.

Speaker: So when I look at YouTubers, really the only people I see straight down the middle, which Zach and Greg did take it home.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: No, and they're great too.

Speaker: Like I think that it's really, there's so many options out there.

Speaker: Basically, you just have to pick the one that you see most.

Speaker: And I just happen to see the Buffalo Pink of all guys most.

Speaker: So.

Speaker: Yeah, I know what you mean.

Speaker: All right, moving on.

Speaker: We got rules.

Speaker: Which game do you think had the best rules?

Speaker: Now, this is where you have to argue it's going to come down Iron Maiden or it's going to come down to Pirates of the Caribbean.

Speaker: Like you have to look at that and really you have to argue, okay, do you get points for doing an encyclopedic rule set or do you get points for doing an elegant strict like focused rule set?

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Okay?

Speaker: So I'll tell you who I think won it.

Speaker: I think it's going to be Pirates of the Caribbean.

Speaker: Who I think should have won it is I think it should have been Iron Maiden for Keith Elwin saying, no, you need a five-mode game, you need it straight down, and you need to make it very understandable but modifiable.

Speaker: So I'm going to...

Speaker: I am totally giving praise to Keith Johnson for everything he does.

Speaker: All of his rule sets are crazy complex and crazy amazing.

Speaker: I'm going to give a nod to Keith Elwin for how streamlined his rule set is.

Speaker: So for rules, it was actually Iron Maiden.

Speaker: So...

Speaker: Yeah, and I would say that.

Speaker: And I think it was well-deserved.

Speaker: Yeah, I think so too.

Speaker: And that is certainly nothing against Pirates.

Speaker: I think that what he's done with Pirates is legendary.

Speaker: Oh, I agree.

Speaker: I really think it probably should have been a dual award this year.

Speaker: Moving on to that, then who do you think the root, the rookie of the year was?

Speaker: Um, so between Eric and Keith, and this is something we actually just, this is something we discussed before recording.

Speaker: I don't know if Scott Denise, he was in the room.

Speaker: Yeah, I think he was from, I think he, because he was last year, I believe.

Speaker: Um,

Speaker: But really great options and for Eric to come, it's really legendary for what he did.

Speaker: But I'm going to say that I'm going to have to give it to Keith in that because I don't know anybody who actually shot Iron Maiden who didn't say, wow, that game felt great.

Speaker: Everyone is wowed by Pirates of the Caribbean, and I agree with that.

Speaker: It's an amazing game, but if you're looking for something that will be a tournament legend game for years, and for hardcore collectors to collect, it will be Iron Maiden.

Speaker: And Keith Allen was the one that took it home for Rookie of the Year.

Speaker: So it makes sense.

Speaker: Really, we're starting to see a theme here between Iron Maiden and Pirates of the Caribbean.

Speaker: Well, it's the two big releases, really.

Speaker: And I think that... I'm wondering if Stern was caught by surprise by how Iron Maiden took off.

Speaker: I sure hope so.

Speaker: Well, because it's not a...

Speaker: I would say that people know the theme, but I don't know of anybody who was saying, wow, I'm really glad you got the Iron Maiden theme.

Speaker: It's kind of niche, right?

Speaker: And for them to be able to do that and people say, I don't care if I don't like the band.

Speaker: I love the game.

Speaker: I think it's talking to Jeff Rivera.

Speaker: He was talking about Iron Maiden, and I think it's hilarious because he compared Iron Maiden to Rush getting drunk and playing metal.

Speaker: And which is also ironic because I love rush, but it was just funny because there are so many people who do have that visceral reaction to iron maiden, but we'll still play it in spite of the, the theme.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: So going on to animations and display, one of the ones that stood out to me was actually Alice Cooper's nightmare castle.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: I think with the comic book style style, it's something we haven't seen yet before.

Speaker: Um, I've been really impressed with what they've done with the display and whatnot.

Speaker: What do you, who do you think took home the animations and display?

Speaker: I think that, uh, the guys at Jersey Jack should win this every year.

Speaker: Uh, it's, it's, uh, everything they do looks so brilliant.

Speaker: Um,

Speaker: Um, so I would be shocked if it weren't, um, I understand the, the Alice Cooper's nightmare castle reference.

Speaker: I just think that pirates of the Caribbean is just beautiful.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And it, it was pirates of the Caribbean.

Speaker: They did take it home on that one.

Speaker: So, so.

Speaker: Alrighty.

Speaker: Here's the one that we were not in because we didn't start doing this till this year, but podcaster who let me, let me lead off with this.

Speaker: Let me, let me lead, please.

Speaker: Podcasts to me, there is three people that contend for this.

Speaker: There's probably more.

Speaker: I know there's almost 40 pinball active pinball podcasts out there now, but three took it home for me.

Speaker: You've got head to head,

Speaker: And the reason being is the amount of interviews, the amount of information.

Speaker: They just do a fantastic job.

Speaker: I know they're like a three-hour podcast every Monday.

Speaker: They put a ton of work in.

Speaker: I can recognize that.

Speaker: I hope everyone else does recognize that.

Speaker: It's fantastic.

Speaker: And so, especially with like the Lyman Sheets interview with the Chris Granner interview, I mean, there were so many epic interviews last year that they did the Roger Sharp one.

Speaker: It just, it's hard not to acknowledge that they're on the table at a higher level than the rest of the podcasts.

Speaker: The second one, special one lit.

Speaker: And the reason being is they've got interviews that no one else has been able to get before.

Speaker: They were able to interview Steve Ritchie, which he will not do interviews unless if you're in the same room as him because he has a hard time hearing.

Speaker: I think they also got Lyman Sheets on.

Speaker: They've had an amazing array of people.

Speaker: They got Brian Eddy on.

Speaker: I mean, Brian Eddy hasn't been on anyone else's podcast except for special one lit.

Speaker: So what else do you do?

Speaker: You know what I'm saying?

Speaker: And then third, he's always in contention.

Speaker: He won it last year, Kaneda.

Speaker: And the reason I put Kaneda up here is, you know, he might be the guy that cries wolf when it comes to rumors and stuff like that.

Speaker: But some of his stuff is spot on.

Speaker: And he has admitted himself before.

Speaker: Some of the stuff he does is for show.

Speaker: But you know what?

Speaker: He knows what he's doing.

Speaker: He knows that sometimes drama sells and that to get the hook of the people, you've got to be a little brash and out there sometimes.

Speaker: And so even though I might not agree with most of his opinions, I do think that he is a very admirable podcaster out there.

Speaker: So what are your thoughts?

Speaker: I agree with you with Kaneda.

Speaker: I think that Chris is –

Speaker: He's very intelligent, obviously, and he has very insightful takes.

Speaker: I think what will turn people on and off is if they like or dislike his style.

Speaker: And you can just make that judgment for yourself.

Speaker: I agree with Special One Lit.

Speaker: It's kind of amazing how they are able to get those small interviews, but I do not think there's anything that can compare to head-to-head.

Speaker: They took everything to the next level.

Speaker: And actually, Matt saw Marty when he was at Texas, and he said he's actually coming to Utah, and so he may be here this week, and so I'm going to send him an email and see if he wants to come to Tuesday.

Speaker: Oh, that'd be cool.

Speaker: Yeah, it's what Marty and Ryan do, mainly Marty.

Speaker: I know Ryan's kind of backing off a little bit, but it really is legendary what they're able to do.

Speaker: And the amount of work that they put into it, I just, I can't even fathom.

Speaker: And we do this for an hour every two weeks.

Speaker: I couldn't imagine doing it for four hours every week.

Speaker: Um, and it's high quality.

Speaker: This isn't them rambling.

Speaker: This is them actually having good takes.

Speaker: So, yeah, I totally agree.

Speaker: So, uh, the guy that took it home was Canada.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Good for him.

Speaker: And,

Speaker: and do you know what was awesome was his acceptance speech he did have his little jabs in there but you know overall he handled it very well he was very professional with what he said and i was just impressed with him you know he's a gentleman that he knows how to be professional i mean that's part of his job and so i just wanted to throw out throw that out there because it was it was pretty impressive so yeah okay moving on we've only got two more categories gameplay and layout okay so gameplay i'm

Speaker: Hands down, that's going to be Iron Maiden.

Speaker: Yes, Eric did an amazing job with Pirates.

Speaker: I think that that's, in some ways, I think the epicness of what he did, it takes a little bit away from being streamlined.

Speaker: And so I'm going to give it to Keith and to say how much he refined that game.

Speaker: And in some ways, there's only some things you can do if you are the top player in the world.

Speaker: the way that you look at shots, the way you imagine a pinball machine, there's a reason why Iron Maiden's been such a big success.

Speaker: So I would give it to Iron Maiden, and that is taking nothing away from Pirates of the Caribbean because it's such an amazing game.

Speaker: Gameplay and layout, it was Iron Maiden, which is no shocker to me either.

Speaker: So I agree with everything you just said on Iron Maiden.

Speaker: Keith Allen definitely knew what he was doing when he made it.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Okay, last one.

Speaker: Game of the year.

Speaker: Who do you think brought it home out of everyone that was there?

Speaker: So it's going to come down to the two that we've talked about all night.

Speaker: It's going to come down to either Iron Maiden or Jersey Jack with the Pirates of the Caribbean.

Speaker: I'm going to say everything here that...

Speaker: Pirates is epic.

Speaker: Pirates had, they integrated five game, five movie licenses into one game.

Speaker: They found a way of tying everything together.

Speaker: They have this encyclopedic, uh, rule set that goes farther than any rule set has gone in the past.

Speaker: They have five different mechs.

Speaker: Uh, they have, you know, the rocking play field that,

Speaker: changes rocking direction and shooting.

Speaker: They have a wide body that doesn't feel like a wide body.

Speaker: They have amazing animations, amazing light show.

Speaker: I'm going to give it to Iron Maiden.

Speaker: I'm going to give it to Iron Maiden because this is the challenge with everything we just talked about Jersey Jack is that it's hard to be the game of the year when you're also not like a huge seller in the year.

Speaker: Like it's hard to get the game out there because it's so epic, because it's so expensive.

Speaker: And you are also going up against, I would say, a surprise sensation in Iron Maiden where you have Keith Elwin who has an amazing knowledge of rules, has an amazing knowledge of layout.

Speaker: He was able to integrate his Archer theme into Iron Maiden without missing a beat and still being able to have it at an affordable price that gets into people's homes.

Speaker: And I'm going to give you points for being able to get a game out on location and into people's homes because that is the real challenge is being able to find it accessible to everybody.

Speaker: Well, no shocker, Iron Maiden did take Game of the Year this year, which was very well-deserved.

Speaker: See, I would say that Jersey Jacks certainly has an argument.

Speaker: They have a good argument for being the game of the year.

Speaker: And really, the Buffalo pinball guys had a really good analysis on why Pirates should be the game of the year.

Speaker: And I totally understand that.

Speaker: I'm going to give you points for being able to bring pinball to the masses, though.

Speaker: Overall, I was very impressed.

Speaker: Most of it, I think the predictions were pretty spot on.

Speaker: I think Deadpool took away a lot more than I thought it would.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And it's going to be interesting to see in 2019.

Speaker: I mean, we're the only thing that's been released.

Speaker: I mean, so far we're in the end of March is cosmic carnival and monsters.

Speaker: So it's going to be interesting to see what the year brings for us.

Speaker: Uh, if all the rumors do come true, it'd be nice to know.

Speaker: So no, there's a lot of stuff.

Speaker: Uh, so any, any bold predictions you think for the next year, here's my bold prediction.

Speaker: They will have a Tron vault edition.

Speaker: which will be a premium type version.

Speaker: So it'll integrate a lot of things of the LE, but have a better art package, but probably the similar sound package.

Speaker: And that will be their vault release.

Speaker: My bold prediction is that, I don't know if I dare say this because he's my favorite designer, but Brian Eddy...

Speaker: will have a hard time living up to the hype.

Speaker: Oh, geez.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I think people look at Brian Eddy as, you know, he had three fantastic games and it's going to be interesting to see.

Speaker: I think Brian Eddy actually works with Stern's model looking at Attack from Mars.

Speaker: Attack from Mars is...

Speaker: I don't want to say basic.

Speaker: You really take the ship off of there and it's good flow, it's good gameplay, it's good whatnot.

Speaker: But I feel like he can fit into the Stern model a little better.

Speaker: But I think the problem is there's a lot of people, Steve Ritchie included, that have followed Brian Eddy's model.

Speaker: And so that has been done for a while.

Speaker: And so it makes you wonder...

Speaker: what else he's going to do.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: And so he's either a going to blow us out of the park or B we're just going to be upset.

Speaker: He doesn't meet expectation.

Speaker: I really think there's no in between there.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And it could be just, it's the same thing as like, okay, the Beatles and Rolling Stones, they were amazing back in the sixties.

Speaker: When's the last time you bought a Paul McCartney album?

Speaker: Uh, I haven't.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And it's this like at some point the magic's gone.

Speaker: So is the magic on?

Speaker: I hope not.

Speaker: Cause I would love to see what he does.

Speaker: I hope not either.

Speaker: And I really, my, my hope for him is, is he becomes the next Steve Ritchie that Steve Ritchie patches the torch to Brian Eddie and Brian Eddie then becomes the king of pinball.

Speaker: I enjoy John Borg.

Speaker: I enjoy Eric Meniere.

Speaker: I enjoy spooky pinball, but really I think we need a fantastic designer that we look forward to.

Speaker: And Steve Ritchie's that right now.

Speaker: And it's going to be hard to fill his shoes.

Speaker: Yeah, I think you're right.

Speaker: But I am with you.

Speaker: I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker: And I think you're right.

Speaker: It's binary.

Speaker: It's either high or low.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: I really don't see much in the middle.

Speaker: And I'm excited to see what Keith Ellen brings to the table for his next game.

Speaker: Oh, absolutely.

Speaker: Because, you know, it will be a sophomore slump.

Speaker: Who knows?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Or he might.

Speaker: That's the problem is he had all the time in the world to work on an animade.

Speaker: And it's going to make you wonder what happens from here on out.

Speaker: Well, that's the same thing with Banz.

Speaker: Their first album is always great, and the second album is the hardest one.

Speaker: But yeah, man, that wraps it up for us tonight.

Speaker: We're kind of going over a little longer than we normally do, but there was so much to cover at Texas Pinball Festival, we figured why not.

Speaker: Yeah, I think so.

Speaker: So a little off our date of recording, but life gets in the way, and we don't have a schedule to adhere to.

Speaker: Well, it's okay.

Speaker: We get paid the same, so.

Speaker: Well, one final note, I know we kind of touched on it a little bit, but not too much.

Speaker: We want to say thank you to Ryan C. I think that was awesome to see him come back on the head-to-head this last week.

Speaker: I do feel for him with a lot of the stuff he said.

Speaker: I hope he's still regular with him and Martin because I'm not saying one's better than the other, but it's like peanut butter and jelly, man.

Speaker: You can't have one without the other.

Speaker: And so I do enjoy that Martin's still been doing it, but

Speaker: it feels like we've lost a little bit of that magic with Ryan C gone.

Speaker: So I, I would say it's great.

Speaker: And I hope that Ryan C finds his happy, happy medium.

Speaker: Uh, I think the challenge is just like I, just like we talked about that there, everything they're doing is Epic.

Speaker: It's, it's to an amazing level.

Speaker: And that's why I think that I can do about an hour every two weeks.

Speaker: And that's kind of works for me, but, uh,

Speaker: You know, I hope that everything works out well.

Speaker: And certainly those, those guys are amazing and keep going because I love listening to it.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: I totally agree.

Speaker: Oh, and one more thing.

Speaker: I keep wanting to say this.

Speaker: It's been months now.

Speaker: If you haven't checked it out now, the slap save podcast is fantastic.

Speaker: They did an episode like two, three months ago and you don't even know it until you're halfway through the episode and you're wondering what the heck is going on.

Speaker: But they, they pretended they went to the future and was doing pretty much an episode for like two or three years in the future.

Speaker: It was fantastic.

Speaker: If you haven't checked it out, go check it out.

Speaker: Those are great guys.

Speaker: Same with Special Unlit.

Speaker: We love those guys too.

Speaker: Great podcasts out there.

Speaker: I definitely feel like we're in the category along with the pinball nerd.

Speaker: I love Albert.

Speaker: I love his new t-shirt.

Speaker: It says, your favorite fifth pinball podcast.

Speaker: I'm like, we're right there with you, dude.

Speaker: Yeah, we're not even fifth, so don't worry about it.

Speaker: We're not even fifth.

Speaker: If there's 40 out there, we're probably like...

Speaker: 41.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Out of 42.

Speaker: That's because the other, the 42 is not recording currently.

Speaker: So yeah, exactly.

Speaker: So, um, also awesome job to everyone that presented very professional.

Speaker: Um,

Speaker: Yeah, it was just, it was a fantastic night.

Speaker: It was cool to, I kind of bounced in and out of the, the twippies and it was, it was just cool to see everything.

Speaker: So thanks to Jeff Patterson and Zach and Greg for putting that on.

Speaker: That took a lot of work and it's very impressive what, what they have done for this hobby.

Speaker: I think that's also bringing the hobby to a new level and new standard.

Speaker: I really appreciate it.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I certainly, I, I, I, I ride the coattails of all the people who have way more time and are way more invested than I am in the hobby.

Speaker: So I, I appreciate everything that, and go listen to all the pinball podcasts.

Speaker: They're, they're all great and they all give different takes on the situations.

Speaker: I agree.

Speaker: So, and we've got hopefully a good line, a year lined up for us as well.

Speaker: We've got some people that want to come on and so we'll see what happens.

Speaker: So,

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Well, sounds good.

Speaker: Awesome, Captain.

Speaker: Well, it was great having you on.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Signing out.

Speaker: See you in two weeks.