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Episode 6: TPF and Twipys!
89 Plays7 years ago
We do a recap of TPF and the Twipys along with some interesting info (well we find interesting) about Steve Richtie's next pin. If you want to follow along with the Twipy categories, go to
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/the-twipy-pinball-awards-a-celebration-of-the-hobby/
Recommended
Transcript
Festival Disappointments and Industry Trends
00:00:06
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
We really appreciate that you're here with us today.
00:00:11
Speaker
I am Joshua Roop here with my co-captain, Mr. Scott Larson.
00:00:16
Speaker
Hey, how's it going today, Scott?
00:00:18
Speaker
Uh, it's good.
00:00:19
Speaker
It's good.
00:00:19
Speaker
I, uh, I felt disappointed, uh, that I didn't make it to Texas, uh, pinball festival this year.
00:00:26
Speaker
I planned on going there, but it's, uh, I, I just didn't end up pulling the trigger.
00:00:33
Speaker
And so I, I feel that I should have gone, but, uh,
00:00:37
Speaker
Um, just didn't happen.
00:00:38
Speaker
So I agree with you.
00:00:40
Speaker
I'm kind of sad too.
00:00:41
Speaker
I wish I would have went to Texas pinball fest to Texas pinball festival as well this year.
00:00:46
Speaker
But honestly, in my personal opinion, we're going to get into this.
00:00:50
Speaker
I'm kind of getting more and more upset with the pinball festivals and stuff like that.
00:00:54
Speaker
I don't feel like really much happened besides the twippies, which is awesome.
00:00:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:59
Speaker
So if I were going to the festivals, I would want something substantial.
00:01:07
Speaker
And this is where I think that it's the perfect place for a reveal or...
00:01:14
Speaker
or something, you know, a big mod or some big announcements, it feels as if a lot of these major companies are retracting from using these as their landmark announcement events and then doing their own thing.
00:01:31
Speaker
Sadly, I think what happens is that kind of undermines the desire for some people to go to these, you know, to go to Expo, to go to Texas.
00:01:40
Speaker
I was interested in going to Texas when I heard it was going to be
00:01:43
Speaker
the you know the five days of deep root i thought that would be really interesting to see what they have but if they're not going if the pinball manufacturers themselves are going to bypass these major festivals so they can just use their own time to uh to announce their games or develop things then i think it i think it really detracts from the event um
00:02:09
Speaker
I think so too.
00:02:10
Speaker
And here's the other thing too, is the rumor right now is, is the next Stern game is announced on Tuesday.
00:02:17
Speaker
We're recording on Sunday night and we'll probably put this out tomorrow on Monday.
00:02:21
Speaker
But if that's the case, what is the point of holding off five days where they try?
00:02:26
Speaker
I mean, you've already got deep root who says they weren't going to be there, which Robert Mueller had a great explanation.
00:02:32
Speaker
He got married, which congratulations to you, Robert.
00:02:34
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:02:35
Speaker
I think that's very cool that you put family before, uh,
00:02:38
Speaker
the pinball hobby, which is very commendable in my opinion.
00:02:42
Speaker
But really coming down to it, the only other announcement we had was Jersey Jack.
00:02:46
Speaker
And there was a lot of expectation on that one, which we'll get into later.
00:02:50
Speaker
But I just feel like more and more of these pinball events are becoming back burner events.
00:02:56
Speaker
And they're setting their own timelines on when they should release.
00:03:00
Speaker
And I get that you want to be the bride of the ball or whatever you want to call it, the bell of the ball.
00:03:06
Speaker
But it just doesn't make any sense.
00:03:08
Speaker
You've got a bunch of people there that are there supporting the hobby itself and that are excited to be there with you.
The Role of Themes in Pinball Design
00:03:15
Speaker
And now it's just kind of turning into what a drinking fest along with playing some pinball with people you see once a year.
00:03:22
Speaker
Yeah, I don't.
00:03:23
Speaker
And I know that not.
00:03:24
Speaker
Now, there are tons of pinball events, by the way.
00:03:28
Speaker
So I know it sounds like we may be picking on Texas and we may be picking on Expo to some extent, because really those are the two that historically have had more major announcements or major developments happening.
00:03:43
Speaker
And the other ones have tended to be either a show so people can go and sell their mods or sell their customizations or their pins.
00:03:52
Speaker
There's Allentown.
00:03:54
Speaker
There's Rocky Mountain, which is our local one.
00:03:57
Speaker
They also have the California Gaming Expo.
00:04:00
Speaker
So all these other ones haven't really been around reveals.
00:04:05
Speaker
And so perhaps that I may be a little unfair with leveraging that into Texas and maybe Expo.
00:04:13
Speaker
But they also have kind of set themselves up for that.
00:04:18
Speaker
And so they have set expectations that something's going to happen at this event.
00:04:23
Speaker
It's not just an event with some talks and a tournament.
00:04:29
Speaker
This is the cutting edge of the event.
00:04:34
Speaker
And so if they're not going to embrace that, then perhaps they need to, I guess, lower expectations or lower anticipation, because that really is what ultimately drove me from not coming this year is because I felt that there wasn't going to be any stories, any new events.
00:04:55
Speaker
Yeah, and like I said, I don't know, looking at Marvel.
00:04:59
Speaker
Marvel's a great example of this, and DC.
00:05:02
Speaker
The biggest main event for comic books is San Diego Comic-Con.
00:05:07
Speaker
And that's where Marvel does their reveals.
00:05:09
Speaker
That's where they, if you're a diehard comic book fan, you go there, you get a glimpse of the new movies, you get a glimpse of the new comic books, you get a glimpse of, it's like a thank you to those that have supported them, and they know where they're going to be every year.
00:05:24
Speaker
I just, I don't fully understand this concept of why the companies are starting to back off from the pinball events.
00:05:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:31
Speaker
And I, I'm, I'm only thinking from a marketing standpoint that they want to control the message they want to, uh, they want to steer it and there's release timelines and everything.
00:05:43
Speaker
I, I totally understand that.
00:05:46
Speaker
I think that you should still, as a company, you should embrace your diehard fans.
00:05:51
Speaker
You should be able to say, yes, we as Stern, as the major company in the market,
00:06:02
Speaker
we don't have anything at these major things.
00:06:04
Speaker
That really should be kind of sad.
00:06:07
Speaker
That if you're the alpha dog in the business, act like it.
00:06:14
Speaker
Yep.
00:06:15
Speaker
Literally say, I don't care what they're doing.
00:06:18
Speaker
I'm going to own this.
00:06:19
Speaker
I'm going to release this.
00:06:21
Speaker
I'm going to tell what we're doing.
00:06:24
Speaker
And I dare them to follow me.
00:06:27
Speaker
Yep.
00:06:27
Speaker
But if it seems like they're playing a cat and mouse thing.
00:06:31
Speaker
So I don't get it.
00:06:33
Speaker
It's if you're the alpha dog act like the alpha dog.
00:06:35
Speaker
I agree.
00:06:36
Speaker
Well, let's talk about some other stuff.
00:06:39
Speaker
Steve Ritchie was there at TPF.
00:06:40
Speaker
He had very tight lips on what was going on with his game.
00:06:43
Speaker
But like I said, if rumors are true, we'll see his new game on Tuesday.
00:06:47
Speaker
It is an original theme, and I was talking to an insider in the industry about this theme.
00:06:53
Speaker
He wasn't giving me very many hints on the theme, but he did give me this tidbit, which I found very interesting.
00:06:59
Speaker
Star Wars was originally supposed to be Steve Ritchie's last game.
00:07:03
Speaker
He was supposed to be calling it quits.
00:07:04
Speaker
I guess he walked in and said, here's my resonation.
00:07:08
Speaker
I mean, the dude's made 42 games over 42 years.
00:07:11
Speaker
The dude's a living legend in the pinball industry.
00:07:14
Speaker
And Stern wasn't going to let that go.
00:07:16
Speaker
I mean, it's starting to get hot again.
00:07:18
Speaker
You know, Steve Ritchie designs are probably the most sold and played designs out there between Star Wars and Star Trek and a handful of others from Stern right now.
00:07:28
Speaker
So they said, what can we do to keep you on?
00:07:31
Speaker
And Steve Ritchie said, the only way you can keep me on is if I got to do an original theme.
00:07:35
Speaker
And so...
00:07:37
Speaker
They didn't even go to Gary Stern about this is what I was told because Gary is very adamant on we do themes.
00:07:42
Speaker
That's all that we do.
00:07:44
Speaker
That's what sells pinball right now.
00:07:45
Speaker
We are geared towards an operator market.
00:07:48
Speaker
We need to sell to them.
00:07:50
Speaker
And so Gary's partner said, you know what, Steve, if that's what's going to take to keep you here, you can do your original theme.
00:07:56
Speaker
So either A, this is going to be his last title.
00:08:00
Speaker
Or B, he has one more after this because he got to make his own and then he'll have to make one more for Stern.
00:08:05
Speaker
That's a license just as a compromise.
00:08:08
Speaker
What do you think about that?
00:08:11
Speaker
Steve Ritchie games are, they certainly have a feel, you know, they're every, every signature designer and it's the same as any artist.
00:08:20
Speaker
They kind of have a style that you've grown accustomed to.
00:08:25
Speaker
With Steve Ritchie, it's flow.
00:08:28
Speaker
And that's what they always describe it at.
00:08:30
Speaker
And when you think about it, what does flow mean?
00:08:33
Speaker
Well, I think flow means that you don't have to trap up to play the game.
00:08:39
Speaker
You can still just keep hitting on the fly and you can still put up a monster score versus like a Pat Lawler game.
00:08:49
Speaker
You kind of have to trap up.
00:08:51
Speaker
Like Pat Lawler is a little more
00:08:53
Speaker
I don't want to say quirky, but a little more it's focused on, okay, do this thing, do this thing.
00:09:00
Speaker
And it's well thought out, kind of like a technician.
00:09:04
Speaker
But Steve Ritchie is, I want it to go on the fly.
00:09:08
Speaker
Now you can still trap up and you can shoot his games.
00:09:12
Speaker
And so it's not like they are limited to that.
00:09:15
Speaker
But his is the one game that will allow you just to fly if you want to.
00:09:23
Speaker
And so I think also, Oh, go ahead.
00:09:26
Speaker
Sorry.
00:09:26
Speaker
Oh, no, it's, I just think it's great.
00:09:29
Speaker
If you can keep him going, that's fine.
00:09:32
Speaker
At some point you are, eventually the well will run dry and he, you know, as we all get older, you just can't do it anymore.
00:09:40
Speaker
Or he doesn't want to do it anymore.
00:09:43
Speaker
Um, if he does an original theme, I, I'm kind of with Gary on this.
00:09:49
Speaker
Like I, I love the idea of original themes.
00:09:54
Speaker
But you need to look at outside of the diehard fans.
00:09:58
Speaker
So when you see Jersey Jack going with Dialed In, yes, it's a Pat Lawler game.
00:10:08
Speaker
But how many people outside of the pinball community even know who Pat Lawler is?
00:10:13
Speaker
And they'll look at that game and they have no idea like, okay, so this is interesting.
00:10:17
Speaker
Because they really haven't been doing this for 20 years.
00:10:22
Speaker
You know, doing it...
00:10:24
Speaker
Since the Bally Williams day, they haven't been doing original themes.
00:10:28
Speaker
And so I think people with their instant gratification, five seconds attention span, if you don't have that...
00:10:36
Speaker
that thing that draws you in, you're not going to get the casual guy to go up.
00:10:41
Speaker
Now, you may get someone who is, hey, what's this?
00:10:44
Speaker
I'm curious.
00:10:45
Speaker
I'm going to try that.
00:10:46
Speaker
And yes, Dialed In is a fantastic game.
00:10:50
Speaker
But I also understand Gary's point.
00:10:51
Speaker
Gary's point is, hey, let's tether onto a known brand that's already paid a lot of money for marketing this.
00:11:01
Speaker
And even when you divide it up, a license costs, you know, 300 bucks a game or so.
00:11:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:07
Speaker
So it can't be like, I understand why Gary says it.
00:11:12
Speaker
And I, I actually side with Gary on this.
00:11:15
Speaker
Well, and here's some other stuff too that I've learned over the last week is I was talking with a distributor and he said just unlicensed teams don't sell.
00:11:26
Speaker
They don't like touching them.
00:11:27
Speaker
They're not huge fans of them.
00:11:30
Speaker
I mean, look at Total Nuclear Annihilation.
00:11:33
Speaker
Fantastic.
00:11:33
Speaker
Game of the Year.
00:11:34
Speaker
No, sorry.
00:11:35
Speaker
Dialed In was Game of the Year.
00:11:36
Speaker
I apologize.
00:11:37
Speaker
But between Dialed In and Total Nuclear Annihilation of 2018, those went home with all the twippies it felt like.
00:11:44
Speaker
And it was a great success for Spooky, but that's 550 games.
00:11:48
Speaker
That's nothing for Stern.
00:11:51
Speaker
And you look at Dialed In, you know, Wizard of Oz is our top seller right now, followed closely by Hobbit, and then Dialed In is at the bottom.
00:12:00
Speaker
And I was talking to the distributor.
00:12:02
Speaker
He says he still hasn't sold out of all of his LEs for Dialed In.
00:12:05
Speaker
It doesn't perform well on location because he's got two out on location.
00:12:09
Speaker
They're not mechanically reliable, so they're not good towards operators.
00:12:14
Speaker
You look on the flip side of Star Wars.
00:12:17
Speaker
Star Wars isn't considered a brilliant game by pinball standards to us right now, maybe 10 years ago.
00:12:25
Speaker
But a lot of people complain that it's a flow-rich-y game with stop-and-start rules.
00:12:33
Speaker
And so there's a lot of disconnect in the gameplay.
00:12:38
Speaker
But I was talking to an operator friend of mine, and he said he would buy new Star Wars games any day because they perform on location ridiculously well.
00:12:49
Speaker
He said Star Wars is bringing in money hand over fist compared to his other pinball machines.
00:12:54
Speaker
He had a dialed-in on location, my operator friend.
00:12:57
Speaker
He doesn't anymore because there's no reason to have it out there.
00:13:00
Speaker
He said it never got played.
00:13:01
Speaker
It just didn't get nickels in it because he runs a nickel arcade.
00:13:05
Speaker
But you've got Star Wars where he's got nickel arcades, he's putting out in bars, he's putting in bowling alleys because it performs very, very well.
00:13:16
Speaker
And so it's funny because you've got the pinball community saying, hey, we want Pat Lawler.
00:13:20
Speaker
Hey, we want these designs that we know that we love that aren't necessarily tied to a theme.
00:13:27
Speaker
But then you've got these themes that are paying for everything else.
00:13:31
Speaker
So I sadly right now, I agree with Gary Stern as well.
00:13:34
Speaker
You've got to have a theme that ties well with your pinball machine.
00:13:39
Speaker
I don't think that's necessarily bad, though, because I've said it before.
00:13:44
Speaker
I bought my first pinball machine based on dumb luck and theme.
00:13:49
Speaker
I saw The Simpsons and I said, let's get it.
00:13:52
Speaker
I would have no idea if it were a total nuclear annihilation.
00:13:55
Speaker
Like I would have no idea.
00:13:56
Speaker
I'd be like, oh, that's a cool 80s retro thing.
00:13:59
Speaker
I grew up in the 80s.
00:14:00
Speaker
Sure, why not?
00:14:01
Speaker
But I don't know if that would really draw me in.
00:14:04
Speaker
And I think that in some ways, pinball enthusiasts, this is where I'm going to get into.
00:14:14
Speaker
And I think you'll see kind of my bias when it comes into the Twippies coming up.
00:14:19
Speaker
This is where I have a hard time with like the Oscars when it comes to Oscar times.
00:14:25
Speaker
Like they have all these major movies out there that make hundreds of millions of dollars and they give the best picture to something that makes 20 million.
00:14:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:37
Speaker
And.
00:14:37
Speaker
Okay, sure, for maybe the movie enthusiasts who say, oh, well, you didn't really catch X, Y, or Z. Okay, fine, but the public has spoken.
00:14:48
Speaker
The public has spoken, said, this isn't the best movie because it only made $20 million.
00:14:52
Speaker
If it were the best movie, it would have at least made $100 million.
00:14:57
Speaker
And so when you're talking about like, yes, it's great to have these small things now that, that being said, what you can say is that putting into like an arcade, you need to build a mix.
00:15:10
Speaker
It's just like building an album back in the day where yes, you'd have the two or three big hits that they would put out as singles.
00:15:19
Speaker
But then a lot of times you come for the singles, but you stay for the other stuff that you end up liking more, but it doesn't end up being that radio catch song.
00:15:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:29
Speaker
And so if you have a bar or an arcade or whatever that has a Star Wars with a dialed in, with a total nuclear annihilation, with, you know, a Pirates of the Caribbean.
00:15:39
Speaker
Yes, they'll come in and they'll say, hey, I'm going to try the Star Wars.
00:15:43
Speaker
And then they may look at that and say, huh, what's that?
00:15:45
Speaker
Maybe I'll try that.
00:15:47
Speaker
But it's like if you buy an album that doesn't have a single on it, you're not going to sell the album.
00:15:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:54
Speaker
Yep, it's true.
00:15:55
Speaker
I don't know.
00:15:56
Speaker
I've been thinking more and more about theme and gameplay, and I guess it draws me back to the 90s because, in my opinion, that's kind of where pinball was starting to get figured out because we were going from short play times to longer game plays and more theme integration as well.
00:16:17
Speaker
You had a story.
00:16:20
Speaker
You had a story.
00:16:21
Speaker
Yeah, you had a story.
00:16:22
Speaker
And the two, the two companies that were big back then were, uh, Stern and were Bally Williams and Stern was just getting in or data East slash Sega slash Stern, whatever you want to call it.
00:16:34
Speaker
And even back then, they're not considered the masterpieces, the data Easts.
00:16:41
Speaker
Um, but they're great games and they're all theme based.
00:16:44
Speaker
And you look at the Bally Williams, the, all, all the ones that we covet and say, they're the best.
00:16:48
Speaker
It,
00:16:49
Speaker
So what if it's the shadow?
00:16:50
Speaker
The gameplay is amazing.
00:16:51
Speaker
So what if it's giant mnemonic?
00:16:53
Speaker
The gameplay is amazing.
00:16:55
Speaker
But the thing is, is the greatest selling pinball machine was Adam's family from Valley Williams.
00:17:00
Speaker
And they favored innovation over theme, which we love.
00:17:05
Speaker
But it ultimately makes me wonder if they would have been more theme focused.
00:17:09
Speaker
Would it have been more successful?
00:17:11
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:17:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:12
Speaker
And it's kind of like the...
00:17:16
Speaker
The Bally Williams, they won the battle but lost the war when you look at it.
00:17:22
Speaker
And yes, I totally know that really Williams was still profitable when they pulled the plug on the pinball division because they wanted to focus on slot machines.
00:17:34
Speaker
And so, yes, so people always argue, well, it was still profitable.
00:17:38
Speaker
They just decided to go for more profits somewhere else.
00:17:40
Speaker
Okay, I get it.
00:17:42
Speaker
But really, when Data East started saying, hey, let's go after big licenses and see if that can hook people, then they had something.
00:17:53
Speaker
And really, they kind of got away with it for a while.
00:17:56
Speaker
They got away from it in that
00:17:59
Speaker
you know, that basically the 2006 to 2010 era when they had a few that had a big license, but a lot of them were kind of B grade licenses in my opinion.
00:18:10
Speaker
Um, I would say the eight licenses in the two thousands would be like the Simpsons and, uh, and Lord of the Rings and Spider-Man and name anything else that has like a, a,
00:18:25
Speaker
a marquee license.
00:18:27
Speaker
I mean, you're going to put big buck buck hunter.
00:18:29
Speaker
You're going to put a, you're going to put wheel of fortune.
00:18:32
Speaker
You're going to know Austin.
00:18:34
Speaker
Austin powers was pretty big.
00:18:36
Speaker
Jeez.
00:18:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:18:38
Speaker
I mean, maybe you could maybe say that was a big license, but really, you know, you've got, Oh, I forgot pirates of the Caribbean.
00:18:47
Speaker
They're pirates of the Caribbean.
00:18:48
Speaker
So yes, you got four out of whatever they've done.
00:18:52
Speaker
And so like those are the ones that still have good resale value.
00:18:58
Speaker
People are still buying those.
00:19:00
Speaker
Well, like Jeff, like our buddy Jeff from the Pinball Podcast said, you know, look at Sopranos versus Lord of the Rings.
00:19:07
Speaker
The layouts are so scary similar that if you were to just take the themes off, it'd probably be pretty much the same game.
00:19:15
Speaker
The thing that defines them is the gameplay and the theme.
00:19:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:19
Speaker
And that's what makes Lord of the Rings so coveted amongst all the fans and everything.
00:19:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:23
Speaker
And really I would love Lord of the Rings too.
00:19:25
Speaker
And I'm not sure that I would want Lord of the Rings.
00:19:28
Speaker
I've had the same rule set, the same gameplay and Pokemon Island adventure.
00:19:33
Speaker
I just don't think so.
00:19:34
Speaker
So let's move on to Texas pinball festival.
00:19:38
Speaker
We had a new game revealed.
00:19:41
Speaker
We had the company reveal a game and yeah, let's go from there.
00:19:46
Speaker
What did you think?
00:19:47
Speaker
Let's start with the new reveal.
00:19:48
Speaker
How about that?
00:19:49
Speaker
What did you think of cosmic carnival?
00:19:52
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I will say when you sent me this and I thought, oh, this sounds interesting.
00:20:00
Speaker
I thought it
Game Reviews and Critiques
00:20:01
Speaker
was like Cosmic Chaos, like the Mark Ritchie game that they teased last year.
00:20:08
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:20:09
Speaker
And I thought, oh, that's really cool.
00:20:11
Speaker
That's a lot of planning to say, hey, we did this.
00:20:16
Speaker
I thought this would have been a great small company release.
00:20:22
Speaker
We teased it last year as a theme, and then people had some positive vibes on it.
00:20:27
Speaker
And so, yeah, we just go ahead and made this pinball.
00:20:30
Speaker
And it would have been kind of cool to be kind of a retro, like a meteor or something like that.
00:20:36
Speaker
I, so I, I was in my mindset, I was dialed in for that one.
00:20:41
Speaker
And then I, I was like, oh, well, okay.
00:20:44
Speaker
This is like scary clown show.
00:20:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:46
Speaker
It kind of does look like killer clowns from outer space.
00:20:48
Speaker
Yeah, it kind of does.
00:20:50
Speaker
And so like, I, I think it's, I think it's great.
00:20:55
Speaker
Um, it's, I,
00:20:57
Speaker
I hope that it finds a market.
00:21:01
Speaker
I think it's kind of hard for these small companies to try to find a niche with something that is completely unlicensed.
00:21:11
Speaker
It's just kind of a niche thing.
00:21:13
Speaker
And who knows, maybe that works.
00:21:16
Speaker
I mean, Spooky did it with America's Most Haunted.
00:21:20
Speaker
However, if you know the documentary on it, they really hit a few things and they're lucky to be a business now.
00:21:26
Speaker
Like, I hope that these small boutique companies, they're able to find a niche.
00:21:33
Speaker
It looks interesting.
00:21:34
Speaker
I didn't shoot it.
00:21:36
Speaker
I thought it looked pretty in the right environment.
00:21:39
Speaker
I think it could do something.
00:21:41
Speaker
But you also look at what did Spooky do?
00:21:45
Speaker
The next thing they came out with was a licensed theme.
00:21:48
Speaker
Okay, it was Rob Zombie, and it was still kind of a niche thing.
00:21:51
Speaker
But people who knew it said, hey, I want to buy it because it's a Rob Zombie game.
00:21:57
Speaker
And then they went off with Total Nuclear Annihilation, which was, I would say, a success for the pinball crowd and for their market.
00:22:05
Speaker
But I'm hoping that they'll be able to do something with this kind of small market release when they haven't been able to build that kind of buzz.
00:22:15
Speaker
And really, there is already a spooky pinball out there.
00:22:17
Speaker
So if you want kind of a niche, quirky game, they have that option.
00:22:21
Speaker
You know, after looking at the whole game...
00:22:24
Speaker
I haven't really looked much at the gameplay or how it plays.
00:22:27
Speaker
I mean, obviously we weren't there, so I didn't have my hands on it to tell you how the gameplay is.
00:22:32
Speaker
But looking at the play field, I felt it was kind of basic, maybe samey-same.
00:22:38
Speaker
A game you saw in the early 90s.
00:22:41
Speaker
The artwork is beautiful.
00:22:43
Speaker
Dirty Donny did great.
00:22:44
Speaker
Yes, but but it almost looks Aerosmith with the colors.
00:22:49
Speaker
And yeah, I don't know how to describe it.
00:22:51
Speaker
I just I don't know.
00:22:52
Speaker
I'm not excited for this one.
00:22:53
Speaker
I mean, it's a it is original theme, but it does nothing for me.
00:22:57
Speaker
I'm not huge on clowns.
00:22:59
Speaker
I saw that there was modes, but without playing it, I don't know what they're going to be.
00:23:03
Speaker
And then they might shoot like butter, man.
00:23:05
Speaker
It might be the perfect little shooter, but I just nothing.
00:23:09
Speaker
We're getting to the point of the game where pinball prices are so expensive that if something doesn't blow me out of the water, I just tend to ignore it.
00:23:19
Speaker
And that's kind of where I'm at with cosmic cart or not cosmic cart cosmic carnival.
00:23:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:24
Speaker
And I'm just, I'm not super impressed with it.
00:23:26
Speaker
I mean, it's a great looking game, but I just, like I said, I need to get my hands on it.
00:23:31
Speaker
Did they announce a price?
00:23:33
Speaker
No, they did not.
00:23:35
Speaker
Not that I like it.
00:23:37
Speaker
I'll hurry and look it up.
00:23:38
Speaker
What would you buy it for?
00:23:40
Speaker
I wouldn't buy it, though.
00:23:41
Speaker
That's the thing.
00:23:43
Speaker
There's so much other good pinball machines out there.
00:23:46
Speaker
Why would I buy that one?
00:23:48
Speaker
Unless you're going to be competing with a Stern Pro and you're basically getting the crowd who – I would say the counterculture crowd, the I don't want the popular game.
00:24:01
Speaker
I want the niche game.
00:24:03
Speaker
But I still have, you know, 5,300 or whatever they're costing nowadays.
00:24:08
Speaker
I still have that burning a hole in my pocket.
00:24:11
Speaker
But unless it's a game like a Total Nuclear Annihilation or maybe even an Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle, are you really going to put your hard-earned money down?
00:24:22
Speaker
Like, not if it's your first pin or second, maybe if it's your tenth and you're looking at, like, diversity in a collection, but
00:24:31
Speaker
you really have to go pretty far down that road to break into the market.
00:24:36
Speaker
So I'm hoping they find something.
00:24:38
Speaker
I'm just, I'm not optimistic.
00:24:42
Speaker
I'm not either.
00:24:43
Speaker
Well, and like I said, there's just so much good pinball machines out there.
00:24:46
Speaker
And I'm not saying Cosmic Carmel is not good pinball.
00:24:49
Speaker
I'm just saying there's so much to detract from it that I just I don't see it as something that will tickle my fancy, so to speak.
00:24:57
Speaker
So I hope I'm surprised.
00:24:59
Speaker
I really do.
00:25:01
Speaker
But I just don't know.
00:25:04
Speaker
Here's the other thing, though, too.
00:25:05
Speaker
Price does but doesn't play a point into it.
00:25:08
Speaker
I mean, look at Thunderbirds.
00:25:09
Speaker
That's the cheapest game out in the market.
00:25:11
Speaker
But everyone, I mean, if it had fantastic rules, maybe people would be talking about it.
00:25:16
Speaker
I just don't know.
00:25:17
Speaker
Or if it shot well.
00:25:19
Speaker
At least with that one.
00:25:22
Speaker
And there were some issues with it not even being comparable to standard ones.
00:25:28
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:25:32
Speaker
I don't know.
00:25:32
Speaker
I wish every new company well, and I hope you sell a billion of them.
00:25:36
Speaker
I'm just looking at it from the marketing hat and thinking it's unlikely.
00:25:40
Speaker
Yeah, I agree.
00:25:42
Speaker
Well, speaking of marketing and whatnot, let's move on to Jersey Jack's big reveal.
00:25:48
Speaker
So this one's been predicted quite a while ago.
00:25:50
Speaker
I can't remember who broke the news on it, but Jersey Jack decided to reveal...
00:25:55
Speaker
the yellow brick road edition of wizard of Oz.
00:25:58
Speaker
There were some broken hearts cause they were expecting Willy Wonka or toy, a toy story, but it was the yellow brick road edition.
00:26:06
Speaker
Let's not talk about price just yet.
00:26:07
Speaker
Let's talk about what, what did you think of it?
00:26:09
Speaker
Cause you sent me the pictures as soon as they revealed it.
00:26:12
Speaker
You know what?
00:26:14
Speaker
It, it makes me feel like, like Jersey Jack has like a, a backfire in their engine.
00:26:24
Speaker
You know how there's a car that's just not quite running smoothly and you're trying to hit the gas and it just backfires and kind of stalls out or you have to do something like that.
00:26:36
Speaker
They have beautiful games.
00:26:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:26:39
Speaker
Yes.
00:26:40
Speaker
Okay.
00:26:40
Speaker
So let's just put this in perspective.
00:26:43
Speaker
So what year was Wizard of Oz announced?
00:26:49
Speaker
2011, but don't hold me to it.
00:26:50
Speaker
I want to say it was around that.
00:26:52
Speaker
So when was it actually delivered?
00:26:55
Speaker
I want to say 2012, 2013.
00:26:56
Speaker
I think it was later than that.
00:27:00
Speaker
Let's see.
00:27:01
Speaker
I am going to look this up because this is going to make my point.
00:27:04
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:06
Speaker
while you're looking that up, here's the other thing though, too.
00:27:09
Speaker
This is what keeps getting my brain going.
00:27:11
Speaker
So Jersey Jack announces back in 2011 that they're making wizard of Oz.
00:27:15
Speaker
It's 2019.
00:27:15
Speaker
It's been eight years now and you can correct me on that if I'm wrong, but in that time span, they've made four games.
00:27:22
Speaker
Count them four.
00:27:24
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:24
Speaker
So you are getting exactly like, this is the point that I'm trying to make is that let's just say, okay, it says the release date is 2013.
00:27:33
Speaker
So just on the,
00:27:35
Speaker
on the Wikipedia page, okay?
00:27:38
Speaker
All right, so let's just say 2013, okay?
00:27:42
Speaker
Now, let's just sit back a minute, okay?
00:27:45
Speaker
So since 2013, they've released Wizard of Oz, they've released The Hobbit, they've released Dialed In, and they've released Pirates of the Caribbean, right?
00:27:56
Speaker
Correct, yes.
00:27:57
Speaker
Well, hold your breath.
00:27:59
Speaker
Let me tell you what Stern's done.
00:28:01
Speaker
Metallica.
00:28:02
Speaker
They've done Star Trek.
00:28:04
Speaker
They've done Mustang.
00:28:05
Speaker
They've done Walking Dead.
00:28:06
Speaker
They've done WrestleMania.
00:28:07
Speaker
They've done Kiss.
00:28:08
Speaker
They've done Game of Thrones.
00:28:09
Speaker
They've done Woe Nelly.
00:28:10
Speaker
They've done Spider-Man Vault Edition.
00:28:12
Speaker
They've done Ghostbusters.
00:28:13
Speaker
They've done Batman 66, Aerosmith, Star Wars, Guardians of the Galaxy, Iron Maiden, Deadpool, The Beatles, The Munsters.
00:28:22
Speaker
Sweet dang.
00:28:23
Speaker
I don't know what to say to that.
00:28:26
Speaker
So that is – this is my argument going back to like Stern is the alpha dog in the argument.
00:28:33
Speaker
Yeah, and you can totally – I will totally get behind that, yes, Stern was on this slow death spiral until Jersey Jack entered the market and said, hey, you're not doing it very well.
00:28:45
Speaker
We're going to do it better.
00:28:46
Speaker
And then Stern said, huh, OK, that's how it is.
00:28:50
Speaker
Let me show you what we can do.
00:28:52
Speaker
And they just dropped a crazy amount of games.
00:28:55
Speaker
So let's just count those up.
00:28:56
Speaker
And this isn't even talking about the premium versus the LE or the pro.
00:29:01
Speaker
So really, and that's even harder to do than what Jersey Jack is doing.
00:29:06
Speaker
Because they are making two different games.
00:29:10
Speaker
So let's just say so Metallica one, Star Trek two, Mustang three, Walking Dead four, WrestleMania five, Kiss six, Game of Thrones seven, Will Nelly eight, Spider-Man Vault Edition nine.
00:29:25
Speaker
You can may or may not take that.
00:29:27
Speaker
Ghostbusters 10, Batman 66, 11, Aerosmith 12, Star Wars 13, Guardians of the Galaxy 14, Iron Maiden 13,
00:29:34
Speaker
15, Deadpool 16, Beatles 17,
Market Dynamics and Company Strategies
00:29:37
Speaker
Munsters 18.
00:29:38
Speaker
So even if you threw two of those out, that is a 16 to four ratio on releasing.
00:29:46
Speaker
So this is where I'm looking at this and saying that, man, I want to pull in.
00:29:55
Speaker
By the way, I've got a Wizard of Oz downstairs.
00:29:58
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:59
Speaker
And so I am, I am a fan.
00:30:01
Speaker
I love what they do.
00:30:03
Speaker
I want to get a dialed in at some point.
00:30:06
Speaker
So I'm a, I'm a fan, but you cannot win at that ratio, a 16 to four ratio.
00:30:13
Speaker
And even if you develop a, a special edition wizard of Oz and says, yes, we're going to make it cooler and
00:30:25
Speaker
Who are they catering to?
00:30:27
Speaker
This is where I have to ask from a marketing standpoint.
00:30:31
Speaker
Who are they catering to?
00:30:33
Speaker
Because is there really a market for this?
00:30:36
Speaker
And maybe there is.
00:30:37
Speaker
I really hope there is.
00:30:40
Speaker
But like if you think about it, how much are they making on pinball machines?
00:30:45
Speaker
Two, maybe $3,000?
00:30:45
Speaker
Let's just assume that, okay?
00:30:50
Speaker
If you're doing $2,000 or $3,000 and maybe this is going to be another $2,000 or $3,000 for me?
00:30:58
Speaker
I don't know.
00:31:00
Speaker
$4,000 maybe for Yellow Brick Road for getting like special bling and whatnot.
00:31:04
Speaker
Maybe three.
00:31:05
Speaker
So, you know, $3,000 times 200.
00:31:07
Speaker
Okay.
00:31:09
Speaker
Let's just assume that Stern makes a grand on each one of them.
00:31:13
Speaker
Okay.
00:31:13
Speaker
Let's just assume Stern makes a grand.
00:31:15
Speaker
Like how much do you think they're going to make over the next year with four releases and being able to pump out a few thousand versus their 200?
00:31:26
Speaker
Okay.
00:31:28
Speaker
Like it's just like something just is not connecting.
00:31:32
Speaker
And so I don't know what to say.
00:31:34
Speaker
Like I would love to see from their development standpoint, but I want to say, man, I love what you're doing, but you're so ambitious with what you're trying to do.
00:31:44
Speaker
Like it's, you're like, you're building a McLaren race car.
00:31:50
Speaker
But they only make $200 versus Ford, which is Ford is making thousands of cars versus your $200.
00:31:59
Speaker
You're just not going to work.
00:32:01
Speaker
Hey, just a second.
00:32:02
Speaker
Hey, what's up, sweetheart?
00:32:03
Speaker
What's up?
00:32:04
Speaker
What are you talking to?
00:32:05
Speaker
What am I talking about?
00:32:06
Speaker
I know.
00:32:06
Speaker
I'm talking about pinball.
00:32:07
Speaker
It's crazy, huh?
00:32:09
Speaker
What are you talking to?
00:32:11
Speaker
Yeah, I'm talking to Josh.
00:32:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:15
Speaker
Okay.
00:32:15
Speaker
Good night, honey.
00:32:16
Speaker
Okay?
00:32:18
Speaker
Why do I have headphones on?
00:32:19
Speaker
Because that's how I hear.
00:32:21
Speaker
Okay, guys.
00:32:22
Speaker
Hey, I love you.
00:32:22
Speaker
Okay.
00:32:24
Speaker
Okay, go to bed.
00:32:25
Speaker
Josh.
00:32:27
Speaker
Josh.
00:32:28
Speaker
Josh Rube.
00:32:28
Speaker
He's come out.
00:32:30
Speaker
Carter's his son.
00:32:30
Speaker
Okay.
00:32:31
Speaker
All right.
00:32:32
Speaker
Have fun, guys.
00:32:35
Speaker
Anyway.
00:32:38
Speaker
So you see what I'm saying about JJP is like, I love what they're doing.
00:32:43
Speaker
But at some point, you have to question what they're doing.
00:32:48
Speaker
Well, no one asked for this.
00:32:50
Speaker
No one said that I would love Wizard of Oz in yellow.
00:32:54
Speaker
Honestly, I think ruby red is probably the perfect color for Wizard of Oz.
00:32:58
Speaker
I enjoyed the emerald green.
00:33:00
Speaker
It makes sense because there was the Emerald City.
00:33:03
Speaker
Why are we going yellow brick road?
00:33:04
Speaker
I get that it's the yellow brick road.
00:33:07
Speaker
But why?
00:33:08
Speaker
Why are we going yellow?
00:33:10
Speaker
And you're taking out the monkey mechanic, but it's still on the screen, quote unquote.
00:33:16
Speaker
This is a game that I've been personally looking for for my wife.
00:33:21
Speaker
She wants a Wizard of Oz.
00:33:22
Speaker
But the problem is you sink so much money into it that, first off, that's a lot of money sent in my garage.
00:33:30
Speaker
And if I end up not liking it,
00:33:32
Speaker
and my wife wants to keep it, I'm out that amount of money.
00:33:36
Speaker
She said her two themes she wants right now is a WorldWin or Wizard of Oz.
00:33:42
Speaker
Which one am I going to buy?
00:33:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:43
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:33:45
Speaker
I would rather have a WorldWin sitting, not getting played in my garage, versus a Wizard of Oz at $7,000, $8,000 plus.
00:33:55
Speaker
And the resale value on these things are hard.
00:33:57
Speaker
People don't want to buy Wizard of Oz because you can still buy them new.
00:34:01
Speaker
or you're buying one that you don't know if it's going to have mechanical issues with or not.
00:34:06
Speaker
And so I just don't understand the concept of why we keep going back to we need to build more Wizard of Oz's.
00:34:12
Speaker
I get it's an evergreen title, but this didn't really deserve a reveal in my opinion.
00:34:17
Speaker
It's something, it's almost, I don't know, it's almost a slap in the face.
00:34:22
Speaker
And the reason being is, is you've got people out there that have these quote unquote limited editions,
00:34:28
Speaker
And they're not limited at all.
00:34:30
Speaker
He's just essentially slapping limited edition on it like Stern does premium.
00:34:35
Speaker
Just call it a premium.
00:34:36
Speaker
That's what it is.
00:34:37
Speaker
Because the upgrade from that is the collector's edition.
00:34:41
Speaker
So why are we calling them limited when, in fact, they're not going to be limited?
00:34:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:48
Speaker
I don't like the limited logo just because I... Okay, obviously...
00:34:55
Speaker
You need to look at it from what they're doing.
00:34:57
Speaker
And really, there are people who will buy it based on it's limited.
00:35:02
Speaker
Okay?
00:35:03
Speaker
So that is a fact because I guarantee they would not have sold 500 Rob Zombies or 450 or whatever they did if it were just like, hey, we're making these.
00:35:14
Speaker
You want to buy it?
00:35:14
Speaker
And so there are people who feel like they want that limited plaque and it means something to them.
00:35:22
Speaker
It doesn't mean anything to me, but I, that is my perspective.
00:35:25
Speaker
And I do have a Ruby red, the limited edition, but I bought the Ruby red because I liked that edition.
00:35:31
Speaker
You could even just call it the Ruby red edition or the Emerald city edition, but to put limited edition, I think really, I know you're kind of going against stern and saying that, yes, this is our top of the line and this is our top of the line versions.
00:35:49
Speaker
We have different versions of them.
00:35:51
Speaker
But I just don't understand why they're doing it or what the price increase is.
00:35:58
Speaker
The price increase is more puzzling to me than anything.
00:36:02
Speaker
Yeah, let's talk about that really quick.
00:36:03
Speaker
They increased it to 11.5.
00:36:05
Speaker
Why are we going to 11.5?
00:36:06
Speaker
This game was originally 6.5 when it originally came out.
00:36:08
Speaker
Okay, well, no, I will say it wasn't 6.5.
00:36:12
Speaker
That's what people paid for it.
00:36:14
Speaker
And they were trying to break into a market.
00:36:17
Speaker
And so they were losing money on the titles.
00:36:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:36:20
Speaker
So yes, it was never six, five, but this is, um, so what this is, is, Hey, we have options that we are increasing to put in.
00:36:33
Speaker
So when I bought it, I could have bought the rad decals, which I didn't because I didn't want to pay over $10,000 for a machine.
00:36:39
Speaker
Um, but I, I, I look at it now and it's like, well, maybe I should have slapped those on, but it has like every single bell and whistle option.
00:36:50
Speaker
But they just need to look at what they're doing and they need to figure out how to have an entry level line and a premium line.
00:37:01
Speaker
Because this only selling premiums, I just don't see that as being a great way of doing it.
00:37:09
Speaker
Well, they had standard edition dialed in.
00:37:11
Speaker
Okay, but the standard edition is still the same as a premium.
00:37:17
Speaker
And so it, although it's standard, yeah, it's great, but you need to find something that's a workhorse.
00:37:24
Speaker
And right now they have yet to find a workhorse.
00:37:28
Speaker
And I love what, uh, what they did with, uh, pirates of the Caribbean.
00:37:35
Speaker
But in some ways I thought, man, that is, they put a lot of crazy stuff into that for one release.
00:37:43
Speaker
Like maybe they should have dialed that back a little bit.
00:37:47
Speaker
As opposed to trying to shoot for the moon every time.
00:37:52
Speaker
Sometimes you have to hit base hits.
00:37:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:54
Speaker
So I don't know.
00:37:56
Speaker
I root for Jersey Jack.
00:37:58
Speaker
I love what they do.
00:38:00
Speaker
But it's just I don't understand their business model.
00:38:03
Speaker
I think that it needs to be modified.
00:38:06
Speaker
I think this is why there's so much excitement for Deep Root as well.
00:38:10
Speaker
I think someone's craving to see innovation but competition with Stern.
00:38:16
Speaker
Really, the biggest competition right now would be Chicago Gaming, and they're just doing remakes.
00:38:21
Speaker
That's all they're doing right now.
00:38:23
Speaker
And the nice part about Chicago Gaming is they are fed by another industry as well with other games.
00:38:28
Speaker
But really, there's not much innovation outside of Stern at this point when it comes to pinball.
00:38:35
Speaker
Spooky's doing good, but it's one game every 18 months to two years.
00:38:40
Speaker
Same with Jersey Jack.
00:38:41
Speaker
We've got four games in almost, what did we say, eight years, seven years.
00:38:48
Speaker
You're never going to compete.
00:38:51
Speaker
And Americans trying to catch up.
00:38:52
Speaker
I mean, they've got Oktoberfest and they've got Houdini.
00:38:56
Speaker
So I think the window's narrowing.
00:38:58
Speaker
They need to figure out, and the sad thing is,
00:39:01
Speaker
There's like the Batman 66 type backlash with Kamikawa, right?
00:39:09
Speaker
And that's kind of like a Jersey Jack thing.
00:39:11
Speaker
However, I would say the Jersey Jack price without all the Jersey Jack bells and whistles.
00:39:16
Speaker
But I think that with... So Stern did have some backlash against, oh, well, if they only made a pro in a Batman 6, I'm like, fine, just don't buy it.
00:39:27
Speaker
They have four games a year.
00:39:31
Speaker
So what?
00:39:32
Speaker
You don't buy that game.
00:39:35
Speaker
But I just wish that Jersey Jack could figure out their...
00:39:40
Speaker
their guiding star, whatever their game plan is, because I just don't see it lasting.
00:39:48
Speaker
They're still not making money.
00:39:52
Speaker
So at some point your investors are going to say, I think we're done.
00:39:56
Speaker
And I would hate for that to happen.
00:40:03
Speaker
Yeah, I don't blame you.
00:40:04
Speaker
I just, I just, I don't know how to think of Jersey Jack anymore.
00:40:08
Speaker
I really don't.
00:40:08
Speaker
So I'm puzzled with the, cause it seems, it seems like they don't have a, a great path forward.
00:40:17
Speaker
If they, they released the black arrow edition of the,
00:40:23
Speaker
So on Hobbit, they had the limited edition.
00:40:27
Speaker
Then they had the smog edition.
00:40:28
Speaker
Then they had the black arrow edition.
00:40:30
Speaker
And they probably sold like three of those black arrow editions.
00:40:33
Speaker
Cause they said, Oh, there's one more mode.
00:40:35
Speaker
And everyone said, great.
00:40:37
Speaker
I'll add that to the 400 other modes.
00:40:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:41
Speaker
Is one more mode really that, that critical?
00:40:44
Speaker
I would argue not.
00:40:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:47
Speaker
Well, let's move on.
00:40:48
Speaker
We've got some other stuff to cover.
00:40:51
Speaker
One quick thing I wanted to bring up, though, before we move on to the Twippies is we talked about Steve Ritchie, this possibly being his last game.
00:40:59
Speaker
This is my hope.
00:40:59
Speaker
If it is his last game, I hope Stern waves that flag as high as they can.
00:41:05
Speaker
And either it's Texas Pinball Festival next year or Pinball Expo this fall, they have pretty much like a dedication to Steve Ritchie.
00:41:15
Speaker
I think that would be awesome for that.
00:41:18
Speaker
That'd be cool.
00:41:18
Speaker
They kind of do it in soccer.
00:41:20
Speaker
Like if it's a retirement year for soccer, then they kind of honor that player for the rest of the year because it's his final year.
00:41:28
Speaker
Do it for Steve Ritchie, man.
00:41:29
Speaker
He's been in the market 42 years.
00:41:30
Speaker
He needs...
00:41:33
Speaker
he needs a farewell send off.
00:41:35
Speaker
That's epic.
00:41:36
Speaker
Well, I, I'm glad he's going out on a high note though.
00:41:38
Speaker
I mean, he really is.
00:41:39
Speaker
He, he's had this amazing, like this pinball Renaissance has really revitalized some of these guys who really, I think we're kind of depressed at the end of their career.
00:41:49
Speaker
I mean, Pat Lawler was basically just on a, you know, on the salvage yard because he wasn't really doing anything after having all these legendary games.
00:41:58
Speaker
So I'm, if nothing else, I'm really glad that they've had this,
00:42:03
Speaker
this excellent way of wrapping up their career whenever that is.
00:42:07
Speaker
So let's move on to the Twippies.
00:42:09
Speaker
I know that you didn't watch this.
00:42:10
Speaker
I watched bits and pieces here, but I was able to get all the people that won.
00:42:15
Speaker
So let's go over this.
00:42:16
Speaker
You ready for it?
00:42:17
Speaker
Bring it on.
00:42:17
Speaker
Okay.
00:42:19
Speaker
I'm going to do this in the order that they were actually announced and won.
00:42:23
Speaker
So starting off the first, before we get into this, Greg and Zach, awesome job.
00:42:29
Speaker
you guys did great.
00:42:31
Speaker
My pros to this show really quick.
00:42:35
Speaker
Uh, it was very professional.
00:42:36
Speaker
I love the cut scenes.
00:42:38
Speaker
It was almost like an Oscars.
00:42:40
Speaker
Um,
00:42:41
Speaker
The things that I would prefer that you guys work on for next year, I know this isn't Zach and Greg, or maybe it is them that's doing this.
00:42:48
Speaker
The lighting was really harsh.
00:42:50
Speaker
You were getting some crazy shadows up there.
00:42:53
Speaker
And it was, I felt too zoomed up.
00:42:56
Speaker
Oh, and the one last thing was, is the podium.
00:42:59
Speaker
It had to be like higher.
00:43:00
Speaker
Everyone kept having to lean down to put their mouth on the microphone.
00:43:04
Speaker
And you guys probably saw that.
00:43:05
Speaker
You probably saw that that's what was happening.
00:43:08
Speaker
But that was just from my perspective, from a seat at home, that's what I was seeing.
00:43:13
Speaker
Okay, so first one, best music and sound effects.
00:43:18
Speaker
If you guys want to follow along at home, I'll link the website in the show notes so you can follow along with the people for the categories.
Twippies Awards Highlights
00:43:25
Speaker
But we're going to go for it right here.
00:43:27
Speaker
So Scott, what machine do you think or you think should have won
00:43:32
Speaker
best music and sound effects.
00:43:33
Speaker
So, uh, so I was talking to Josh about this earlier, so I, I'm going to take it a little different and I'm going to say which, which one I think won, but also I'm going to say which one probably should have won.
00:43:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:43:48
Speaker
And when I look at this, here's what I think won.
00:43:53
Speaker
I think Pirates of the Caribbean won.
00:43:56
Speaker
And because I,
00:43:57
Speaker
It's, it's epic.
00:43:59
Speaker
I mean, really pirates of the Caribbean should have been called a Lord of the Rings plus the Hobbit together on everything they did for that.
00:44:08
Speaker
And so we're talking like an encyclopedic depth of, of sound of everything that they were able to incorporate five different things.
00:44:19
Speaker
However, it,
00:44:21
Speaker
I don't want to, the challenge of that is saying that, do you have to be epic to win?
00:44:27
Speaker
Because I'm not sure that that's really what's going to do.
00:44:31
Speaker
Because I would lean toward thinking, well, Iron Maiden certainly has a solid package.
00:44:37
Speaker
Now, that being said, I will say that I would likely say that the sound would go to Pirates of the Caribbean.
00:44:45
Speaker
So the actual person that won was Iron Maiden for best music and sound.
00:44:51
Speaker
And I did think like, now I will say, I'm one of the outliers.
00:44:57
Speaker
I love the theme Iron Maiden.
00:44:58
Speaker
As I said before, it was my first concert when I was like in 1988, when I was like 13, I snuck out and went to Iron Maiden.
00:45:05
Speaker
So I am not one of those guys that says I want this rethemed.
00:45:10
Speaker
I love it.
00:45:11
Speaker
And I know they got the great call outs there.
00:45:14
Speaker
Um, I think that it's certainly, if I were to rank, if I'd probably rank pirates one, iron maiden two.
00:45:20
Speaker
And so I think that's a solid choice.
00:45:23
Speaker
I agree.
00:45:24
Speaker
I really do.
00:45:24
Speaker
Okay.
00:45:25
Speaker
Best homebrew.
00:45:26
Speaker
This is one that I kind of follow.
00:45:27
Speaker
I don't know if you follow it.
00:45:29
Speaker
I don't.
00:45:30
Speaker
So go ahead and tell me what happened there in your analysis because I don't know much about homebrews.
00:45:35
Speaker
So there's a couple of homebrews out there that are – they had Airplane.
00:45:38
Speaker
They had Kill Bill.
00:45:42
Speaker
But the one that actually ended up taking it was Nightmare Before Christmas.
00:45:45
Speaker
And Mark and City, man, he is fantastic looking at this machine.
00:45:50
Speaker
It is just – my only complaint to the machine is the little dark.
00:45:54
Speaker
But other than that –
00:45:56
Speaker
for a gentleman that's went through and it's his baby, man, this thing is amazing.
00:46:00
Speaker
They just streamed it this week and it's just so cool.
00:46:04
Speaker
The shot that I love is where it kicks.
00:46:06
Speaker
It goes into a kickback on the left side.
00:46:09
Speaker
Um, so you know how you have like a, a kickback and then you have your out lane and then you have your in lane.
00:46:16
Speaker
And if you're paying attention to what goes into that kickback, you hold up the right flipper.
00:46:21
Speaker
Sorry, there's four flippers on the game.
00:46:23
Speaker
And the right side has a right side flipper like you'd have on Jurassic Park, whatever it may be.
00:46:30
Speaker
If you're paying attention, that kickback will actually shoot it under the flipper if you're holding it up into what's called the soup.
00:46:35
Speaker
And then you get extra points for that.
00:46:37
Speaker
And so there's just some really cool little innovations that are on it.
00:46:41
Speaker
And...
00:46:43
Speaker
It's just, I don't know, it's a really cool game for a gentleman that's done it all himself.
00:46:46
Speaker
So I was very happy to see that he had won it because it's very well deserved.
00:46:50
Speaker
I do enjoy the Kill Bill one.
00:46:51
Speaker
It's pretty cool.
00:46:52
Speaker
And same with the other ones that are out there.
00:46:54
Speaker
But I was pretty impressed with this one.
00:46:56
Speaker
Yeah, anybody who's willing to make a machine at home, God bless them is all I can say because I can barely change a light bulb.
00:47:05
Speaker
So if they're able to do something on their own and build an entire pinball machine, then I say they get all the accolades in the world.
00:47:15
Speaker
Yep.
00:47:16
Speaker
So moving on to the next one, best call outs.
00:47:19
Speaker
Best call outs.
00:47:22
Speaker
Now, I will say that there are two ways of looking at this.
00:47:26
Speaker
And really, when you look at all the options,
00:47:30
Speaker
there really comes down to the two big options.
00:47:33
Speaker
There's pirates of the Caribbean and there's iron.
00:47:36
Speaker
And, and you can look at all the other ones, but really all the other ones are kind of like smaller releases or, and you can, you could even, I almost say dead tools, smaller release, but really those are the ones that are going to take home the majority of the attention.
00:47:49
Speaker
Um,
00:47:50
Speaker
I like the attitude of Pirates of the Caribbean having the same guy do all the call outs.
00:47:57
Speaker
But I think it'll have to go to Iron Maiden just because of the way that they integrated all that sound package.
00:48:02
Speaker
They got the two perfect voice actors and it really integrates really well.
00:48:07
Speaker
So I'd be surprised if it's anybody else.
00:48:09
Speaker
best call outs actually went to Deadpool.
00:48:12
Speaker
Really?
00:48:13
Speaker
And wow.
00:48:13
Speaker
Yes, it did.
00:48:15
Speaker
And actually the gentleman that plays the voice of Deadpool, he's played it in every last 15 years when it comes to estimation, animation, everything.
00:48:23
Speaker
It made sense to me that Deadpool one, I do like the call outs.
00:48:26
Speaker
It's very spot on what Deadpool is in my mind.
00:48:29
Speaker
That is what Deadpool is.
00:48:30
Speaker
I know everyone said it should have been the movie with Ryan Reynolds, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:48:34
Speaker
I really enjoy where they went with, with Deadpool on this one.
00:48:37
Speaker
So, yeah, but no, that's what won best call out.
00:48:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:40
Speaker
And in Deadpool, I, I always, I feel that the, um, the animation is actually the right way to go.
00:48:45
Speaker
It's the same thing with, uh, with X-Men.
00:48:48
Speaker
I have an X-Men.
00:48:49
Speaker
I love it because of the way the art package is with the comic book style.
00:48:55
Speaker
Spider-Man, and I know that's what people were calling out for the...
00:49:02
Speaker
for the vault edition because they didn't like the movie because the movie eventually seems dated.
00:49:08
Speaker
So, uh, I'll give it to Deadpool, uh, where I play Deadpool.
00:49:12
Speaker
I can't hear the call outs very well because it's in a bar where they have everything turned way down.
00:49:18
Speaker
So.
00:49:19
Speaker
Alrighty.
00:49:19
Speaker
Next one.
00:49:20
Speaker
And honestly, I don't know if we should spend much time on this one.
00:49:22
Speaker
It's pretty straightforward.
00:49:24
Speaker
The best tournament.
00:49:25
Speaker
No, you know, it's, there's, there's Pinberg and everybody else.
00:49:30
Speaker
so yeah exactly i i don't see how that that's even a category it's yeah it's it's pinberg yeah it's pinberg until until proven otherwise all right moving on we got best toys and gimmicks um i don't know if i have a strong feeling on the the best toy i think the alice cooper nightmare castle is really cool um yeah i also i
00:49:54
Speaker
I like the cosmic kart racing just because, and that's more of a ramp thing, but it's just, it's a different vibe.
00:50:00
Speaker
I don't know if I have a strong feeling on this.
00:50:02
Speaker
So what one was Pirates of the Caribbean with the rocking ship?
00:50:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:07
Speaker
I guess I wouldn't see, I don't know.
00:50:10
Speaker
Everybody's interpretation is different.
00:50:12
Speaker
because i wouldn't really consider anything that pirates does as a gimmick i would consider it a feature so but pirates we talked about this is that how loaded pirates is with everything you could probably pick five different elements in pirates and give that the award so all right best mod who do you think who brought home the best mod
00:50:34
Speaker
I think it has to be Penn stadium.
00:50:36
Speaker
Uh, yeah, it's Penn stadium.
00:50:38
Speaker
Like really, who else is it going to be at this point?
00:50:39
Speaker
Like, don't get me wrong.
00:50:40
Speaker
There's a lot of great modders out there.
00:50:42
Speaker
We appreciate what you do.
00:50:44
Speaker
But I think the problem is, is pin stadium is something that's user universally used on every pinball machine, just kind of like color DMD where the other stuff is more game specific.
00:50:56
Speaker
So, and color DMD is fantastic.
00:50:59
Speaker
Pin stadium transforms game play.
00:51:02
Speaker
Like I know we didn't really, we didn't really talk about this on, on the show, but you know, the, the winner of the tournament that was winning, that was wearing a headlamp.
00:51:11
Speaker
You know, he looked like a spelunker, right?
00:51:13
Speaker
He looked like the guy from at the end of Incredibles where he pops up and he's the mole man.
00:51:18
Speaker
But the reason why he was wearing it is so he could actually see the ball.
00:51:22
Speaker
And so it wasn't like a color feature or something pretty.
00:51:27
Speaker
This actually transforms the game.
00:51:29
Speaker
So I have Black Rose downstairs and I put the Penn Stadium in there and Invisiglass.
00:51:36
Speaker
And my wife came and said, I never even knew there was a ship in the back of the play field.
00:51:42
Speaker
So that has completely changed the game.
00:51:46
Speaker
Otherwise, okay, so what?
00:51:47
Speaker
I glue a doll in there of a female pirate?
00:51:51
Speaker
That's not doing anything.
00:51:53
Speaker
No, it's not.
00:51:54
Speaker
All right, best theme.
00:51:55
Speaker
And this is theme alone.
00:51:56
Speaker
This isn't game playing.
00:51:57
Speaker
This is just the theme of the machine.
00:52:00
Speaker
Who had the best theme?
00:52:01
Speaker
Theme alone.
00:52:02
Speaker
Hands down, it's got to be the Beatles because the Beatles people have been asking for it for years.
00:52:08
Speaker
And so if you're just to say list out all of the themes, the Beatles is that's the unobtainium that they never thought was going to happen.
00:52:17
Speaker
And so I would put the Beatles as now.
00:52:21
Speaker
However, I love Iron Maiden, so I would take Iron Maiden.
00:52:26
Speaker
But I think it's the Beatles, you know, and now that you bring that up, I can totally see that I could see the Beatles being the best theme of this year, but it's not the one that actually took it.
00:52:36
Speaker
Deadpool is actually what took it.
00:52:38
Speaker
Yeah, I guess.
00:52:42
Speaker
If it were the movie, then I would say sure.
00:52:45
Speaker
Because I think that I am not – I read – I was first introduced to Deadpool when I read comics in the 90s.
00:52:55
Speaker
And he was a new character then.
00:52:57
Speaker
So I get it.
00:53:01
Speaker
But I think that people were really kind of hoping for that Ryan Reynolds character, which is not really my bag of tea, but I know that people really like it.
00:53:11
Speaker
I would say it's the Beatles, though, because you vote with price.
00:53:16
Speaker
So how much does something cost?
00:53:18
Speaker
And the Beatles cost more than anything.
00:53:20
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I guess.
00:53:22
Speaker
All right, next one.
00:53:23
Speaker
We won't spend much time on this one.
00:53:24
Speaker
It's location.
00:53:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:27
Speaker
Yeah, Logan, probably.
00:53:29
Speaker
And Sunshine.
00:53:31
Speaker
The places that are on my bucket list to go to, there's Logan.
00:53:36
Speaker
I would love to go to Logan.
00:53:37
Speaker
I would love to go to Sunshine.
00:53:39
Speaker
I'd love to go to another world down in Australia.
00:53:43
Speaker
I'd love to go to the Museum of Pinball, the Pinball Hall.
00:53:47
Speaker
All those, sure.
00:53:49
Speaker
Pick your favorite.
00:53:50
Speaker
Fine.
00:53:51
Speaker
I didn't put any of those because I've never been to any of those.
00:53:53
Speaker
So it didn't shock me when Logan Arcade won, though.
00:53:56
Speaker
They did a good job.
00:53:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:58
Speaker
OK, best light show.
00:54:00
Speaker
Do you know what?
00:54:01
Speaker
I'm going to go with Monster Bash Remake.
00:54:04
Speaker
See, and that's what I would have went with too, but I don't know if that falls in this category because Monster Bash didn't start technically shipping until January.
00:54:12
Speaker
It was revealed in October.
00:54:15
Speaker
Yeah, I would put it because with the way they changed the lighting and they integrated it and you can actually see the different modes and it really has a good feel.
00:54:26
Speaker
I'm guessing, well, lighting.
00:54:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:31
Speaker
I'm guessing it'd be Iron Maiden.
00:54:33
Speaker
Did Iron Maiden take it or did pirates take it?
00:54:35
Speaker
No pirates.
00:54:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:54:37
Speaker
This next one isn't even it.
00:54:39
Speaker
Okay.
00:54:40
Speaker
In my opinion, it's not even a question who should win this one.
00:54:42
Speaker
It's one of those, the, like the tournament pinberg takes it.
00:54:46
Speaker
Okay.
00:54:48
Speaker
Streamer.
00:54:49
Speaker
Well, so streaming is, that is, it's a show, right?
00:54:54
Speaker
And,
00:54:55
Speaker
The guy who started it all is, you know, it's dead flip.
00:54:58
Speaker
He's the Jack danger.
00:55:00
Speaker
He's, he's, he's the guy.
00:55:02
Speaker
And yes, every, he is.
00:55:04
Speaker
Everybody else does it and is great.
00:55:06
Speaker
And,
00:55:07
Speaker
Um, if you want, if you're home and you're like, Hey, what's going on here?
00:55:10
Speaker
Great.
00:55:11
Speaker
You know, Buffalo pinball does a great job.
00:55:13
Speaker
Love watching their streams too.
00:55:15
Speaker
Um, but you know, it's kind of this, this whole persona, like who am I, who do I want to hang out with?
00:55:21
Speaker
Who am I going to?
00:55:22
Speaker
And really he started that.
00:55:24
Speaker
Now, if you want to go with tutorials, you can go with bones tutorials, but it really comes down to it.
00:55:29
Speaker
It's going to be
00:55:31
Speaker
it's going to be a Jack danger.
00:55:32
Speaker
Well, and here's the other thing about Jack, Jack buddy, we love you.
00:55:35
Speaker
Um, you do such a fantastic job and not just for streaming, but for what you do is for the pinball hobby itself.
00:55:44
Speaker
I mean, he is a gentleman that goes out there and is spreading the word of pinball like it's his own religion.
00:55:50
Speaker
The dude is out there with Jeffree Star.
00:55:54
Speaker
He's going into all the the Munsters reveal, the Deadpool reveal.
00:55:59
Speaker
I mean, he's at all these reveals and he I think it was head to head that brought it up.
00:56:05
Speaker
He's one of the only other people besides Roger Sharp that can go from company to company and there's no issue.
00:56:13
Speaker
Um, I think that the joke, he doesn't even have to do an NDA for any of the stuff.
00:56:16
Speaker
It's just pretty much a handshake because they trust him on that stuff.
00:56:20
Speaker
And so what, what Jack danger is doing for the hobby is leaps and bounds in my opinion than anyone else in the hobby, because he just, he is doing what we need to be doing for the hobby.
00:56:31
Speaker
If you want to see it grow.
00:56:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:33
Speaker
He he's, he's basically an ambassador.
00:56:34
Speaker
He's a, he's a non-denominational pinball investor.
00:56:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:56:38
Speaker
Moving on.
00:56:39
Speaker
We got artwork.
00:56:41
Speaker
So, um, so you're going to get down to the, the three biggest names in pinball right now.
00:56:49
Speaker
So you got zombie Yeti, um, you got, uh, um, you got Chris Franchi and you have dirty Donnie.
00:56:58
Speaker
So it's going to be any of those three.
00:57:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:57:02
Speaker
What about the guy that did all the Alex Cooper stuff?
00:57:05
Speaker
I mean, that looked really good.
00:57:06
Speaker
The Alex Cooper?
00:57:10
Speaker
The Alice Cooper?
00:57:11
Speaker
You know what?
00:57:12
Speaker
It's true.
00:57:17
Speaker
Come on, there's Oktoberfest.
00:57:18
Speaker
Okay, I will say, okay, I loved Oktoberfest.
00:57:22
Speaker
And I'm not even talking like the creepy monkey like that.
00:57:25
Speaker
Like, let's just say, wow, lapse of judgment on that one.
00:57:29
Speaker
But I saw the Oktoberfest like from afar and I thought, that looks awesome.
00:57:35
Speaker
It looks like a, it looks like a Bally Williams come back to life.
00:57:39
Speaker
Like in the 90s, it kind of looked like that.
00:57:41
Speaker
So I was really excited to play it.
00:57:44
Speaker
Haven't got one locally yet, but I'm really interested in it.
00:57:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:50
Speaker
I think that when you look at what the options are, I think that how much everything's embraced in a game
00:58:04
Speaker
It's come on.
00:58:06
Speaker
It's zombie Yeti.
00:58:07
Speaker
He did Deadpool and he did Iron Maiden and both of them.
00:58:10
Speaker
Like when, when the Deadpool figure was released or the, the whitewood and that was leaked and everyone looked at it and said, really, that's the game.
00:58:20
Speaker
There's nothing on it.
00:58:21
Speaker
And then when it was revealed what he did, you're, you're,
00:58:26
Speaker
it filled the whole play field and, and, and everyone forgot about that in the way that he did iron maiden and, and got that up.
00:58:34
Speaker
Now, that being said, I, I love the style of all three of those major guys.
00:58:39
Speaker
And we've said it before that on monsters that you and I both went and played it and we both looked at it and I said, wow, this is amazing in person.
00:58:49
Speaker
Like this really feels like something I would have in my house.
00:58:52
Speaker
I love what they did there.
00:58:54
Speaker
uh what chris did there um i just think that with the the deadpool and the iron maiden i just think that because iron maiden was so embraced by the pinball crowd that you have to at least give a nod um to zombie yeti for that one
00:59:13
Speaker
Yep.
00:59:13
Speaker
Well, and it was Zombie Yeti who ended up taking it home for Iron Maiden.
00:59:16
Speaker
And that's what I figured.
00:59:18
Speaker
No shocker there.
00:59:19
Speaker
And really, when you look at how much Iron Maiden has changed over the years, being able to dial that back and to say, to try to unify all their different styles, that's a feat unto itself.
00:59:30
Speaker
All right.
00:59:32
Speaker
Moving on to YouTube.
00:59:33
Speaker
Who do you think won it for YouTube?
00:59:35
Speaker
You know what?
00:59:36
Speaker
I'll tell you who I would vote for is I would vote for Buffalo.
00:59:41
Speaker
because I love listening to them.
00:59:44
Speaker
And by the way, Nick Lang's a guy that I want to be.
00:59:48
Speaker
Like when he talks, I'm just like, he sounds so cool the way he talks about things.
00:59:53
Speaker
And he just sounds like a guy that you would love to hang out with.
00:59:56
Speaker
He's funny, just chill.
01:00:00
Speaker
And I like watching the Buffalo Pinball guys, even when they do their show and when they do their streaming.
01:00:06
Speaker
So I would vote for that.
01:00:08
Speaker
The thing with YouTube with me, I think it's really hard because a lot of the people that are streaming then just post it on YouTube.
01:00:15
Speaker
So when I look at YouTubers, really the only people I see straight down the middle, which Zach and Greg did take it home.
01:00:23
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:23
Speaker
No, and they're great too.
01:00:25
Speaker
Like I think that it's really, there's so many options out there.
01:00:29
Speaker
Basically, you just have to pick the one that you see most.
01:00:32
Speaker
And I just happen to see the Buffalo Pink of all guys most.
01:00:34
Speaker
So.
01:00:35
Speaker
Yeah, I know what you mean.
01:00:35
Speaker
All right, moving on.
01:00:37
Speaker
We got rules.
01:00:38
Speaker
Which game do you think had the best rules?
01:00:40
Speaker
Now, this is where you have to argue it's going to come down Iron Maiden or it's going to come down to Pirates of the Caribbean.
01:00:47
Speaker
Like you have to look at that and really you have to argue, okay, do you get points for doing an encyclopedic rule set or do you get points for doing an elegant strict like focused rule set?
01:01:01
Speaker
Right.
01:01:01
Speaker
Okay?
01:01:03
Speaker
So I'll tell you who I think won it.
01:01:05
Speaker
I think it's going to be Pirates of the Caribbean.
01:01:08
Speaker
Who I think should have won it is I think it should have been Iron Maiden for Keith Elwin saying, no, you need a five-mode game, you need it straight down, and you need to make it very understandable but modifiable.
01:01:21
Speaker
So I'm going to...
01:01:24
Speaker
I am totally giving praise to Keith Johnson for everything he does.
01:01:29
Speaker
All of his rule sets are crazy complex and crazy amazing.
01:01:33
Speaker
I'm going to give a nod to Keith Elwin for how streamlined his rule set is.
01:01:39
Speaker
So for rules, it was actually Iron Maiden.
01:01:41
Speaker
So...
01:01:42
Speaker
Yeah, and I would say that.
01:01:44
Speaker
And I think it was well-deserved.
01:01:45
Speaker
Yeah, I think so too.
01:01:46
Speaker
And that is certainly nothing against Pirates.
01:01:50
Speaker
I think that what he's done with Pirates is legendary.
01:01:54
Speaker
Oh, I agree.
01:01:56
Speaker
I really think it probably should have been a dual award this year.
01:01:59
Speaker
Moving on to that, then who do you think the root, the rookie of the year was?
01:02:03
Speaker
Um, so between Eric and Keith, and this is something we actually just, this is something we discussed before recording.
01:02:09
Speaker
I don't know if Scott Denise, he was in the room.
01:02:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think he was from, I think he, because he was last year, I believe.
01:02:16
Speaker
Um,
01:02:17
Speaker
But really great options and for Eric to come, it's really legendary for what he did.
01:02:28
Speaker
But I'm going to say that I'm going to have to give it to Keith in that because I don't know anybody who actually shot Iron Maiden who didn't say, wow, that game felt great.
01:02:39
Speaker
Everyone is wowed by Pirates of the Caribbean, and I agree with that.
01:02:45
Speaker
It's an amazing game, but if you're looking for something that will be a tournament legend game for years, and for hardcore collectors to collect, it will be Iron Maiden.
01:02:56
Speaker
And Keith Allen was the one that took it home for Rookie of the Year.
01:02:59
Speaker
So it makes sense.
01:03:01
Speaker
Really, we're starting to see a theme here between Iron Maiden and Pirates of the Caribbean.
01:03:06
Speaker
Well, it's the two big releases, really.
01:03:09
Speaker
And I think that... I'm wondering if Stern was caught by surprise by how Iron Maiden took off.
01:03:16
Speaker
I sure hope so.
01:03:16
Speaker
Well, because it's not a...
01:03:21
Speaker
I would say that people know the theme, but I don't know of anybody who was saying, wow, I'm really glad you got the Iron Maiden theme.
01:03:28
Speaker
It's kind of niche, right?
01:03:30
Speaker
And for them to be able to do that and people say, I don't care if I don't like the band.
01:03:36
Speaker
I love the game.
01:03:39
Speaker
I think it's talking to Jeff Rivera.
01:03:42
Speaker
He was talking about Iron Maiden, and I think it's hilarious because he compared Iron Maiden to Rush getting drunk and playing metal.
01:03:51
Speaker
And which is also ironic because I love rush, but it was just funny because there are so many people who do have that visceral reaction to iron maiden, but we'll still play it in spite of the, the theme.
01:04:03
Speaker
All right.
01:04:04
Speaker
So going on to animations and display, one of the ones that stood out to me was actually Alice Cooper's nightmare castle.
01:04:11
Speaker
Okay.
01:04:12
Speaker
I think with the comic book style style, it's something we haven't seen yet before.
01:04:17
Speaker
Um, I've been really impressed with what they've done with the display and whatnot.
01:04:22
Speaker
What do you, who do you think took home the animations and display?
01:04:25
Speaker
I think that, uh, the guys at Jersey Jack should win this every year.
01:04:29
Speaker
Uh, it's, it's, uh, everything they do looks so brilliant.
01:04:32
Speaker
Um,
01:04:33
Speaker
Um, so I would be shocked if it weren't, um, I understand the, the Alice Cooper's nightmare castle reference.
01:04:39
Speaker
I just think that pirates of the Caribbean is just beautiful.
01:04:43
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:43
Speaker
And it, it was pirates of the Caribbean.
01:04:45
Speaker
They did take it home on that one.
01:04:47
Speaker
So, so.
01:04:48
Speaker
Alrighty.
01:04:49
Speaker
Here's the one that we were not in because we didn't start doing this till this year, but podcaster who let me, let me lead off with this.
01:04:57
Speaker
Let me, let me lead, please.
01:04:59
Speaker
Podcasts to me, there is three people that contend for this.
01:05:04
Speaker
There's probably more.
01:05:06
Speaker
I know there's almost 40 pinball active pinball podcasts out there now, but three took it home for me.
01:05:12
Speaker
You've got head to head,
01:05:15
Speaker
And the reason being is the amount of interviews, the amount of information.
01:05:22
Speaker
They just do a fantastic job.
01:05:23
Speaker
I know they're like a three-hour podcast every Monday.
01:05:26
Speaker
They put a ton of work in.
01:05:28
Speaker
I can recognize that.
01:05:29
Speaker
I hope everyone else does recognize that.
01:05:31
Speaker
It's fantastic.
01:05:32
Speaker
And so, especially with like the Lyman Sheets interview with the Chris Granner interview, I mean, there were so many epic interviews last year that they did the Roger Sharp one.
01:05:42
Speaker
It just, it's hard not to acknowledge that they're on the table at a higher level than the rest of the podcasts.
01:05:49
Speaker
The second one, special one lit.
01:05:52
Speaker
And the reason being is they've got interviews that no one else has been able to get before.
01:05:56
Speaker
They were able to interview Steve Ritchie, which he will not do interviews unless if you're in the same room as him because he has a hard time hearing.
01:06:04
Speaker
I think they also got Lyman Sheets on.
01:06:06
Speaker
They've had an amazing array of people.
01:06:10
Speaker
They got Brian Eddy on.
01:06:11
Speaker
I mean, Brian Eddy hasn't been on anyone else's podcast except for special one lit.
01:06:16
Speaker
So what else do you do?
01:06:18
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
01:06:19
Speaker
And then third, he's always in contention.
01:06:21
Speaker
He won it last year, Kaneda.
01:06:23
Speaker
And the reason I put Kaneda up here is, you know, he might be the guy that cries wolf when it comes to rumors and stuff like that.
01:06:29
Speaker
But some of his stuff is spot on.
01:06:32
Speaker
And he has admitted himself before.
01:06:34
Speaker
Some of the stuff he does is for show.
01:06:36
Speaker
But you know what?
01:06:37
Speaker
He knows what he's doing.
01:06:38
Speaker
He knows that sometimes drama sells and that to get the hook of the people, you've got to be a little brash and out there sometimes.
01:06:46
Speaker
And so even though I might not agree with most of his opinions, I do think that he is a very admirable podcaster out there.
01:06:55
Speaker
So what are your thoughts?
01:06:58
Speaker
I agree with you with Kaneda.
01:06:59
Speaker
I think that Chris is –
01:07:02
Speaker
He's very intelligent, obviously, and he has very insightful takes.
01:07:09
Speaker
I think what will turn people on and off is if they like or dislike his style.
01:07:15
Speaker
And you can just make that judgment for yourself.
01:07:19
Speaker
I agree with Special One Lit.
01:07:21
Speaker
It's kind of amazing how they are able to get those small interviews, but I do not think there's anything that can compare to head-to-head.
01:07:30
Speaker
They took everything to the next level.
01:07:35
Speaker
And actually, Matt saw Marty when he was at Texas, and he said he's actually coming to Utah, and so he may be here this week, and so I'm going to send him an email and see if he wants to come to Tuesday.
01:07:47
Speaker
Oh, that'd be cool.
01:07:49
Speaker
Yeah, it's what Marty and Ryan do, mainly Marty.
01:07:53
Speaker
I know Ryan's kind of backing off a little bit, but it really is legendary what they're able to do.
01:08:00
Speaker
And the amount of work that they put into it, I just, I can't even fathom.
01:08:05
Speaker
And we do this for an hour every two weeks.
01:08:07
Speaker
I couldn't imagine doing it for four hours every week.
01:08:10
Speaker
Um, and it's high quality.
01:08:12
Speaker
This isn't them rambling.
01:08:13
Speaker
This is them actually having good takes.
01:08:15
Speaker
So, yeah, I totally agree.
01:08:17
Speaker
So, uh, the guy that took it home was Canada.
01:08:21
Speaker
Okay.
01:08:21
Speaker
Good for him.
01:08:21
Speaker
And,
01:08:23
Speaker
and do you know what was awesome was his acceptance speech he did have his little jabs in there but you know overall he handled it very well he was very professional with what he said and i was just impressed with him you know he's a gentleman that he knows how to be professional i mean that's part of his job and so i just wanted to throw out throw that out there because it was it was pretty impressive so yeah okay moving on we've only got two more categories gameplay and layout okay so gameplay i'm
01:08:51
Speaker
Hands down, that's going to be Iron Maiden.
01:08:54
Speaker
Yes, Eric did an amazing job with Pirates.
01:08:57
Speaker
I think that that's, in some ways, I think the epicness of what he did, it takes a little bit away from being streamlined.
01:09:08
Speaker
And so I'm going to give it to Keith and to say how much he refined that game.
01:09:13
Speaker
And in some ways, there's only some things you can do if you are the top player in the world.
01:09:21
Speaker
the way that you look at shots, the way you imagine a pinball machine, there's a reason why Iron Maiden's been such a big success.
01:09:28
Speaker
So I would give it to Iron Maiden, and that is taking nothing away from Pirates of the Caribbean because it's such an amazing game.
01:09:36
Speaker
Gameplay and layout, it was Iron Maiden, which is no shocker to me either.
01:09:41
Speaker
So I agree with everything you just said on Iron Maiden.
01:09:45
Speaker
Keith Allen definitely knew what he was doing when he made it.
01:09:47
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:49
Speaker
Okay, last one.
01:09:51
Speaker
Game of the year.
01:09:52
Speaker
Who do you think brought it home out of everyone that was there?
01:09:55
Speaker
So it's going to come down to the two that we've talked about all night.
01:09:59
Speaker
It's going to come down to either Iron Maiden or Jersey Jack with the Pirates of the Caribbean.
01:10:06
Speaker
I'm going to say everything here that...
01:10:10
Speaker
Pirates is epic.
01:10:12
Speaker
Pirates had, they integrated five game, five movie licenses into one game.
01:10:19
Speaker
They found a way of tying everything together.
01:10:22
Speaker
They have this encyclopedic, uh, rule set that goes farther than any rule set has gone in the past.
01:10:31
Speaker
They have five different mechs.
01:10:34
Speaker
Uh, they have, you know, the rocking play field that,
01:10:38
Speaker
changes rocking direction and shooting.
01:10:40
Speaker
They have a wide body that doesn't feel like a wide body.
01:10:44
Speaker
They have amazing animations, amazing light show.
01:10:48
Speaker
I'm going to give it to Iron Maiden.
01:10:51
Speaker
I'm going to give it to Iron Maiden because this is the challenge with everything we just talked about Jersey Jack is that it's hard to be the game of the year when you're also not like a huge seller in the year.
01:11:06
Speaker
Like it's hard to get the game out there because it's so epic, because it's so expensive.
01:11:12
Speaker
And you are also going up against, I would say, a surprise sensation in Iron Maiden where you have Keith Elwin who has an amazing knowledge of rules, has an amazing knowledge of layout.
01:11:24
Speaker
He was able to integrate his Archer theme into Iron Maiden without missing a beat and still being able to have it at an affordable price that gets into people's homes.
01:11:35
Speaker
And I'm going to give you points for being able to get a game out on location and into people's homes because that is the real challenge is being able to find it accessible to everybody.
01:11:49
Speaker
Well, no shocker, Iron Maiden did take Game of the Year this year, which was very well-deserved.
01:11:55
Speaker
See, I would say that Jersey Jacks certainly has an argument.
01:11:59
Speaker
They have a good argument for being the game of the year.
01:12:05
Speaker
And really, the Buffalo pinball guys had a really good analysis on why Pirates should be the game of the year.
01:12:13
Speaker
And I totally understand that.
01:12:16
Speaker
I'm going to give you points for being able to bring pinball to the masses, though.
01:12:21
Speaker
Overall, I was very impressed.
01:12:23
Speaker
Most of it, I think the predictions were pretty spot on.
01:12:26
Speaker
I think Deadpool took away a lot more than I thought it would.
01:12:30
Speaker
Yeah.
01:12:31
Speaker
And it's going to be interesting to see in 2019.
01:12:35
Speaker
I mean, we're the only thing that's been released.
01:12:37
Speaker
I mean, so far we're in the end of March is cosmic carnival and monsters.
01:12:43
Speaker
So it's going to be interesting to see what the year brings for us.
01:12:46
Speaker
Uh, if all the rumors do come true, it'd be nice to know.
01:12:49
Speaker
So no, there's a lot of stuff.
01:12:51
Speaker
Uh, so any, any bold predictions you think for the next year, here's my bold prediction.
01:12:56
Speaker
They will have a Tron vault edition.
01:13:00
Speaker
which will be a premium type version.
01:13:04
Speaker
So it'll integrate a lot of things of the LE, but have a better art package, but probably the similar sound package.
01:13:14
Speaker
And that will be their vault release.
01:13:17
Speaker
My bold prediction is that, I don't know if I dare say this because he's my favorite designer, but Brian Eddy...
01:13:23
Speaker
will have a hard time living up to the hype.
01:13:26
Speaker
Oh, geez.
01:13:26
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:27
Speaker
I think people look at Brian Eddy as, you know, he had three fantastic games and it's going to be interesting to see.
01:13:37
Speaker
I think Brian Eddy actually works with Stern's model looking at Attack from Mars.
01:13:41
Speaker
Attack from Mars is...
01:13:43
Speaker
I don't want to say basic.
01:13:45
Speaker
You really take the ship off of there and it's good flow, it's good gameplay, it's good whatnot.
01:13:52
Speaker
But I feel like he can fit into the Stern model a little better.
01:13:58
Speaker
But I think the problem is there's a lot of people, Steve Ritchie included, that have followed Brian Eddy's model.
01:14:07
Speaker
And so that has been done for a while.
01:14:10
Speaker
And so it makes you wonder...
01:14:12
Speaker
what else he's going to do.
01:14:13
Speaker
Right.
01:14:14
Speaker
And so he's either a going to blow us out of the park or B we're just going to be upset.
01:14:19
Speaker
He doesn't meet expectation.
01:14:20
Speaker
I really think there's no in between there.
01:14:22
Speaker
Yeah.
01:14:22
Speaker
And it could be just, it's the same thing as like, okay, the Beatles and Rolling Stones, they were amazing back in the sixties.
01:14:30
Speaker
When's the last time you bought a Paul McCartney album?
01:14:34
Speaker
Uh, I haven't.
01:14:35
Speaker
Yeah.
01:14:36
Speaker
And it's this like at some point the magic's gone.
01:14:39
Speaker
So is the magic on?
01:14:40
Speaker
I hope not.
01:14:40
Speaker
Cause I would love to see what he does.
01:14:42
Speaker
I hope not either.
01:14:42
Speaker
And I really, my, my hope for him is, is he becomes the next Steve Ritchie that Steve Ritchie patches the torch to Brian Eddie and Brian Eddie then becomes the king of pinball.
01:14:52
Speaker
I enjoy John Borg.
01:14:54
Speaker
I enjoy Eric Meniere.
01:14:56
Speaker
I enjoy spooky pinball, but really I think we need a fantastic designer that we look forward to.
01:15:06
Speaker
And Steve Ritchie's that right now.
01:15:08
Speaker
And it's going to be hard to fill his shoes.
01:15:10
Speaker
Yeah, I think you're right.
01:15:11
Speaker
But I am with you.
01:15:13
Speaker
I'm looking forward to it.
01:15:14
Speaker
And I think you're right.
01:15:14
Speaker
It's binary.
01:15:15
Speaker
It's either high or low.
01:15:18
Speaker
Yep.
01:15:18
Speaker
I really don't see much in the middle.
01:15:20
Speaker
And I'm excited to see what Keith Ellen brings to the table for his next game.
01:15:24
Speaker
Oh, absolutely.
01:15:25
Speaker
Because, you know, it will be a sophomore slump.
01:15:28
Speaker
Who knows?
01:15:29
Speaker
Yeah.
01:15:30
Speaker
Or he might.
01:15:31
Speaker
That's the problem is he had all the time in the world to work on an animade.
01:15:33
Speaker
And it's going to make you wonder what happens from here on out.
01:15:35
Speaker
Well, that's the same thing with Banz.
01:15:38
Speaker
Their first album is always great, and the second album is the hardest one.
01:15:41
Speaker
But yeah, man, that wraps it up for us tonight.
01:15:42
Speaker
We're kind of going over a little longer than we normally do, but there was so much to cover at Texas Pinball Festival, we figured why not.
01:15:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think so.
Podcast Reflections and Community Engagement
01:15:51
Speaker
So a little off our date of recording, but life gets in the way, and we don't have a schedule to adhere to.
01:15:59
Speaker
Well, it's okay.
01:16:00
Speaker
We get paid the same, so.
01:16:03
Speaker
Well, one final note, I know we kind of touched on it a little bit, but not too much.
01:16:06
Speaker
We want to say thank you to Ryan C. I think that was awesome to see him come back on the head-to-head this last week.
01:16:15
Speaker
I do feel for him with a lot of the stuff he said.
01:16:18
Speaker
I hope he's still regular with him and Martin because I'm not saying one's better than the other, but it's like peanut butter and jelly, man.
01:16:25
Speaker
You can't have one without the other.
01:16:27
Speaker
And so I do enjoy that Martin's still been doing it, but
01:16:31
Speaker
it feels like we've lost a little bit of that magic with Ryan C gone.
01:16:34
Speaker
So I, I would say it's great.
01:16:37
Speaker
And I hope that Ryan C finds his happy, happy medium.
01:16:40
Speaker
Uh, I think the challenge is just like I, just like we talked about that there, everything they're doing is Epic.
01:16:48
Speaker
It's, it's to an amazing level.
01:16:50
Speaker
And that's why I think that I can do about an hour every two weeks.
01:16:54
Speaker
And that's kind of works for me, but, uh,
01:16:57
Speaker
You know, I hope that everything works out well.
01:16:59
Speaker
And certainly those, those guys are amazing and keep going because I love listening to it.
01:17:04
Speaker
Yep.
01:17:04
Speaker
I totally agree.
01:17:05
Speaker
Oh, and one more thing.
01:17:06
Speaker
I keep wanting to say this.
01:17:07
Speaker
It's been months now.
01:17:08
Speaker
If you haven't checked it out now, the slap save podcast is fantastic.
01:17:11
Speaker
They did an episode like two, three months ago and you don't even know it until you're halfway through the episode and you're wondering what the heck is going on.
01:17:18
Speaker
But they, they pretended they went to the future and was doing pretty much an episode for like two or three years in the future.
01:17:25
Speaker
It was fantastic.
01:17:26
Speaker
If you haven't checked it out, go check it out.
01:17:28
Speaker
Those are great guys.
01:17:30
Speaker
Same with Special Unlit.
01:17:31
Speaker
We love those guys too.
01:17:33
Speaker
Great podcasts out there.
01:17:35
Speaker
I definitely feel like we're in the category along with the pinball nerd.
01:17:38
Speaker
I love Albert.
01:17:39
Speaker
I love his new t-shirt.
01:17:40
Speaker
It says, your favorite fifth pinball podcast.
01:17:44
Speaker
I'm like, we're right there with you, dude.
01:17:46
Speaker
Yeah, we're not even fifth, so don't worry about it.
01:17:48
Speaker
We're not even fifth.
01:17:50
Speaker
If there's 40 out there, we're probably like...
01:17:52
Speaker
41.
01:17:52
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:54
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:54
Speaker
Out of 42.
01:17:55
Speaker
That's because the other, the 42 is not recording currently.
01:17:57
Speaker
So yeah, exactly.
01:18:01
Speaker
So, um, also awesome job to everyone that presented very professional.
01:18:05
Speaker
Um,
01:18:06
Speaker
Yeah, it was just, it was a fantastic night.
01:18:08
Speaker
It was cool to, I kind of bounced in and out of the, the twippies and it was, it was just cool to see everything.
01:18:13
Speaker
So thanks to Jeff Patterson and Zach and Greg for putting that on.
01:18:19
Speaker
That took a lot of work and it's very impressive what, what they have done for this hobby.
01:18:24
Speaker
I think that's also bringing the hobby to a new level and new standard.
01:18:27
Speaker
I really appreciate it.
01:18:28
Speaker
Yeah.
01:18:29
Speaker
I certainly, I, I, I, I ride the coattails of all the people who have way more time and are way more invested than I am in the hobby.
01:18:37
Speaker
So I, I appreciate everything that, and go listen to all the pinball podcasts.
01:18:43
Speaker
They're, they're all great and they all give different takes on the situations.
01:18:48
Speaker
I agree.
01:18:49
Speaker
So, and we've got hopefully a good line, a year lined up for us as well.
01:18:52
Speaker
We've got some people that want to come on and so we'll see what happens.
01:18:57
Speaker
So,
01:18:57
Speaker
Okay.
01:18:58
Speaker
Well, sounds good.
01:19:00
Speaker
Awesome, Captain.
01:19:01
Speaker
Well, it was great having you on.
01:19:02
Speaker
Okay.
01:19:03
Speaker
Signing out.
01:19:04
Speaker
See you in two weeks.