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Revisit an Episode: Dive Bars: Where Community, Nostalgia, and Inclusivity Collide
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Dive bars - they’re more than just a spot for cheap drinks. They’re community hubs, cultural icons, and spaces brimming with stories. In this episode of States of Discovery, Marisa and Sara dive into the charm, history, and evolving culture of dive bars. From their roots as literal underground hangouts to their role as inclusive, welcoming spaces, we explore why these beloved establishments hold a special place in our hearts.
Episode Highlights:
- The Dive Bar Vibe: Discover the history of the term “dive bar” and how these establishments evolved from disreputable dives to cherished community spaces. Learn why dive bars resonate as places of authenticity, camaraderie, and connection.
- Evolving with the Times: Dive bars have always been inclusive, but they’re adapting even more to modern times. We discuss the rise of mixology in these unpolished gems and the growing popularity of non-alcoholic options like those we discovered at The Agency in Milwaukee.
- Stories That Define Them: Behind every dive bar is a tapestry of tales—from the owners who pour their passion into these spaces to the regulars who make them feel at home.
- Looking Ahead: With changing neighborhoods and rising costs, we examine the future of dive bars and how they’re finding ways to stay relevant for new generations.
Special Features:
- Clips from dive bar enthusiasts and owners sharing their unforgettable experiences.
- Personal favorites from Marisa and Sara, including dive bars from their travels.
- Industry insights into the non-alcoholic beverage trend, a growing force in the bar world.
Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review States of Discovery on your favorite podcast platform. We love hearing from our listeners, so share your own fair memories and suggestions for future episodes with us!
Connect With Us:
- Phone Number: 805-298-1420 - Leave us a message! We’d love to hear from you.
- Email: podcast@onlyinyourstate.com
Thanks for listening to States of Discovery. Until next time, cheers! 🍻
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Transcript
Introduction to Dive Bars
00:00:05
Speaker
i don't know, it's like grungy in like the best way possible and like very wholesome. Because it's people from everywhere that are dive bars, you know? like Just any type of person from any walk of life pops in can get a beer or a drink that they can afford, have a good conversation, play a game, just like live in Lelew, you know?
Exploring Dive Bars with 'States of Discovery'
00:00:35
Speaker
Welcome back everyone to States of Discovery, a podcast where education and curiosity about the world collide. I'm here with my co-host Sarah. Hi, Sarah.
00:00:46
Speaker
Hey, Marissa. So let's get right into it. In this episode, we're talking about something near and dear to my heart, and it is the fascinating world of dive bars. In this episode, we are featuring exclusive interviews with LA-based mixologist Victor Feliz, CEO and founder of the agency in Milwaukee, the country's first hybrid cocktail bar, Ryan Castellez, and as well as Casey Gerber, bar owner and founder of the Cloak & Dagger Vegan Cocktail Lounge in Cleveland.
The Essence of Dive Bars
00:01:19
Speaker
And they might look a little rough around the edges, and this might scare some people off, but honestly, beneath those worn-out booths, the sticky vinyl and neon signs, these bars are seriously home to some of the most unique stories, friendships, people, and a subculture all of their own.
00:01:38
Speaker
Yes, and they are more than just places where you can get cheap drinks, which, contrary to popular belief, these are actually places of comfort, camaraderie, and community.
00:01:53
Speaker
Personally, for me, dive bars are some of my favorite places to go. I always, whenever I travel, I always seek out dive bars first and And i know that you share the same sentiment because to me, there's no better way than connecting with locals than at the local dive bar.
Authenticity and Community in Dive Bars
00:02:14
Speaker
Yeah, I love dive bars. There's this authenticity they have that you don't find in chains. You don't find in these like um sports bars and things that like you just the focus isn't on the people and community in it. I really do enjoy it.
00:02:27
Speaker
And not going to lie, I feel sometimes intimidated when I go into a dive bar because there is that already established community. And I'm just so eager to want to be accepted by them. i um i love it. um But let's get into like what exactly makes a dive bar a dive bar.
00:02:45
Speaker
Because over the years, that term has changed. And it used to be somewhat derogatory and definitely had a negative skew. But now it's almost like a badge of honor.
00:02:57
Speaker
And dive bars are known for that authenticity I referenced. They're unpolished. They're mysterious. There is and anything goes vibe in a cast of regulars, but not in an unsafe way. It is like their second home.
00:03:11
Speaker
They all know each other. a bartender might hug a customer coming in. They're telling them about a job interview or ah breakup or anything that under the sun really.
00:03:23
Speaker
Yeah. It's, it's interesting you say that. And just like how sometimes walking into a dive bar, I, especially one in a new state, I feel like an interloper that doesn't belong there because they're greeting every, the bartenders are greeting everybody by name.
00:03:37
Speaker
And I'm just like this weird tourist, but it's so interesting how quickly you become part of that, like dive bar tribe that, you you know i To me, that's what makes it stand out is like you immediately are welcomed into this family of ah you know cheap drinks and and yeah sticky booths. But
Historical Context of Dive Bars
00:03:59
Speaker
we'll get into that. I did i did want to um talk a little bit about the term dive bar and how it came to be, which I found very fascinating because the term itself first appeared in the New York Herald in July 1871.
00:04:16
Speaker
And the term dive was used to describe disreputable places, often located in basements, cellars. So it's essentially where patrons would dive into the establishment because they were so far underground.
00:04:33
Speaker
Quite literally, di dive right in. Yeah. um Yeah. and And speaking of disreputable, even in 1882, 1883, it was mentioned in Harper's Magazine that these dives were actually opium smoking dives. And so, yeah, it's definitely not just what we see today.
00:04:50
Speaker
And in 1886, the term came up again in direct reference to a bar. Yeah. So in that 1886 mention, it was specified that a dive bar was called so because it was in a lower part of the building, very similar to the diving into the basement. um And yeah, dive bars were and often still are in basements of larger buildings and annexes and these little hovels and holes where you can quite literally have to like navigate your way down to find them, which to me is actually part of why I would want to go seek these out.
The Welcoming Atmosphere of Dive Bars
00:05:22
Speaker
And that's so that's part of the appeal. Dive bars are places where regulars become family. Everyone knows each other's name. Let's call it the cheers mentality for anybody that has watched Cheers, where you are valued as a guest for specifically being yourself.
00:05:42
Speaker
That genuine aspect of being in a place where there are no pretenses. They don't care what you're drinking. They just want you to be yourself and have a good time exist.
00:05:55
Speaker
And I think that to me is one of the most important elements of why I love dive bars. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the allure of one, someone knowing and remembering my name is really high up on the list. You have that familiarity and that sense of community that is just really hard to find, especially,
00:06:16
Speaker
look Once you leave college and you're at a job, finding community can be tough. like You have to seek it out. You're not just thrown in with people that are going to value and remember you and feel that certain kind of way about you.
00:06:32
Speaker
And so as times change, so do dive bars.
Inclusivity and Evolution of Dive Bars
00:06:36
Speaker
They started out, let's reference, basements you dive into, opium smoking, dives dens and dives, and then also now these basement sort of annex style of bars.
00:06:48
Speaker
But these these spaces are always evolving, but they have always been inclusive. And I feel like that's an important aspect we have to remember even today. And as times change, so do dive bars. And maybe they started as opium smoking dives and literally quite literally below ground levels where you had to jump on in.
00:07:09
Speaker
And they evolved to maybe these bars and basements and annexes. But What's important is that they have always been inclusive spaces, and I think that's even more important today as they have evolved.
00:07:22
Speaker
So many dive bars have become more welcoming to all, focusing on inclusivity, whether it's women, LGBTQIA folks, or even just creating a safe space for people from all walks of life.
00:07:35
Speaker
Yeah, and I think ah just to like pepper in my own personal story, I know we're going to talk about this a little later. There was a dive bar that I went into in um Austin, Texas that I went because I found out that they served vegan Southern cuisine.
00:07:52
Speaker
So vegan ribs, vegan mashed potatoes. It was like part dive bar, part vegan food truck. And I went, it was a a very heavy motorcycle bar with like heavy metal playing you know And I show up um just looking for some vegan ribs.
00:08:12
Speaker
And I was so welcomed in that bar. Let me tell you, nobody cared like that I didn't have a ah motorcycle club jacket on. or Nobody looked twice at me. Everyone was like, oh, yeah, the ribs are so good.
00:08:27
Speaker
And it's just like that is, I feel like, a consistent experience that I have. When you're talking about inclusivity, no matter... The dive bar and I can't blanket statement this across the United States, but, you know, I do feel like there's this common ground with dive bars that it's like, hey, yeah, come on in. Everyone's welcome. Let's have a drink and, you know, just kind of exist together. Yeah.
00:08:50
Speaker
Yeah. and so No, and I just wanted to comment really quickly. There's nothing more beautiful than seeing a biker or metalhead or whoever they are and them just being the biggest marshmallow that cares about vegan ribs. That is the most wholesome thing I've ever heard.
00:09:08
Speaker
Yeah, it was great. It was a really great experience. um And so, yeah, that this is what essentially dive bars are often one of the very few spots where everyone's welcome and there is a real sense of community there.
00:09:21
Speaker
That is only deepened as more people seek out these spaces in order to feel included, to feel at home, regardless of background, identity, etc
00:09:33
Speaker
I'm Vic Felice. I live in Los Angeles, California, and I've been in the food and beverage industry for about 10 years.
Post-Pandemic Dive Bar Challenges
00:09:40
Speaker
And I'm just here to share a little bit of it my love, you know? One of those loves happens to be ah going to a dive bar. It's a safe space. It's...
00:09:48
Speaker
Somewhere where you don't care if you're gonna smear buffalo sauce all over your face, if even if you go to like the ye olde rustic inn in and Los Feliz or, you know, go for like a 1am pastrami sandwich at the Kibbutz Room right at Cantor's to there in West Hollywood.
00:10:04
Speaker
Dive bars in Los Angeles are like cathedrals, just shelters for many. A lot's changed over the last 10 years. ah You have to make the drinks cheaper and approachable for a lot of people. So we've had to get really clever with how to reduce costs, especially after the pandemic and in this economy.
00:10:24
Speaker
So we don't want to waste things. We want to become as sustainable as we can so that we can keep prices low and draw in more people. And that's been a big shift. As of the mid 2000s, you can now probably get like an old fashioned at a dive bar or Negroni.
00:10:43
Speaker
Now, this one's pretty funny and people like to debate about this, but it's also... Is it a dive bar if you guys serve really good wine? ah lot of dive bars have been implementing a natural wine program.
00:10:59
Speaker
That's been up for debate and I love to see it. I love to see the forever evolving part of the industry where where people will challenge the old guard and see who's going to regular gatekeep these sorts of things. it's It's kind of funny.
00:11:14
Speaker
But yeah, dive bars are an integral part of Los Angeles and I don't want to see them go anywhere. i see them being a very important part of people's weekly lives.
00:11:29
Speaker
One interesting thing I think that is happening with dive bars. Look, we're talking about unassuming, community-driven, inclusive spaces, right?
00:11:40
Speaker
And we're talking about no-frill spaces too. yeah But to your point in your example, a dive bar offering vegan ribs and vegan comfort food, there's another trend I think that's really evolving as part of this dive bar community, and that is mixology.
Innovation in Dive Bar Offerings
00:11:59
Speaker
Now, to me, when I walk into many dive bars, I think I have have the cans, have whatever's on draft, and maybe some basic liquor, right? But now, instead of beers and well drinks, more places are also adding a twist to the menu. So instead of this hoity-toity cocktail lounge, you get that old school charm and that really widely appealing setting, but you also are starting to get craft drinks in mixology and really unique takes on um um beverages that you probably haven't seen before in a dive bar.
00:12:35
Speaker
Yeah, and and partially to that point as well, I love that dive bars nowadays are kind of taking these classic cocktails from long, long ago and reinventing them or reintroducing them to younger crowds.
00:12:51
Speaker
You know, like Tom Collins, obviously, you know, old fashions had a huge rise. ah Negroni's. All of these drinks that used to be very popular in 50s, 60s, 70s, and maybe kind of disappeared for a while. And now they're being reintroduced, reimagined in this mixology way that I think is really fun.
00:13:18
Speaker
But not only are we talking about some of these classic cocktails that are making a resurgence, even the in the dive bar scene, but we're also seeing rise of non-alcoholic beverages as well, which might be a surprise to some.
00:13:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think this is a very, very interesting trend that is on the rise. Zero-proof alcohol or bars that feature non-alcoholic beverages is I think we should absolutely discuss this because this is a huge area of interest, especially I feel like with these um you know dry January or I think somebody did dry-tober. You could do- I've heard both, yeah. Dry June. ever it's just Just put dry in front of it.
00:14:03
Speaker
But just this concept of um you know people coming into a 30-day period and just not having any alcohol for the health benefits, mental health benefits, you know I know a lot of people came out of COVID and being locked up and they just were like, I'm drinking too much. I need to do something to kind of level this out.
00:14:22
Speaker
So I think it's really cool that these non-alcoholic or zero proof beverages are on the menu. Yeah, and I also think there's something there too about the ritual of being out with friends, getting drinks, and especially some when, surprising enough, like the sober lifestyle can be somewhat looked down upon or demonized, especially if you're in a group that's quote unquote trying to have fun. Not to say everyone's like that. It's a bit of a toxic take.
00:14:48
Speaker
um But I feel like there has been you know people fake but face backlash for wanting to switch to water, say. So it's nice to have to give them an opportunity to dist still participate in a group activity and not feel like they have to drink alcohol.
00:15:03
Speaker
um Although I will say i found that out of all my peers that I've polled about this, oh God, the alliteration, um a lot of folks are really divided on the non-alcoholic beverages in a craft cocktail and mixology setting because to me, they say, look, I'm paying a markup.
00:15:23
Speaker
four Yeah, right. for alcohol so are if you're gonna give me a shirley temple i would expect a price decrease and so then you start to get to okay is it just ah ah an alcoholfre beverage are are you still getting a supremely crafted and wellt thought out beverage that maybe deserves the price point i feel like great question Yeah, I mean, and I know we're going to talk about this here in a bit, but but I think there are some circumstances where it is really beneficial to still embrace it as a premium offering, even if it doesn't have alcohol.
00:15:59
Speaker
But even at that, you mean, the non-alcoholic market is growing. So volumes have been increasing 9% in 2022, and the international wine and spirits record expects this
Rise of Non-Alcoholic Beverages
00:16:10
Speaker
growth to continue. Yeah.
00:16:11
Speaker
And so between 2022 2026, maybe what, 7%, 10% these and market growing exponentially.
00:16:17
Speaker
these sales and market growing exponentially Yeah, and in the US in 2022 alone, non-alcoholic sales reached nearly $400 million dollars with low alcohol sales reaching nearly $3 billion.
00:16:35
Speaker
So, wow. And also, ah one of the first introductions I've had to um to and a non-alcoholic ah line. So, you know, I've i've come across like Curious Elixirs and things like that, but I had a friend who was pregnant and she swore by things like seed lip to where she could have, you know, these mocktails that were so, so similar, not sponsored by silly lip, but you know, whatever, but that we were actually absolutely delicious. it made her didn't feel like she was missing out, you know, yeah due to, you know, being, being pregnant and planning that part of her life. So I thought that's, that was really special.
00:17:12
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I, we, you know, i have a friend who, um you you know, she doesn't drink and when she comes over to the house, my fiance will make her a mocktail every time and and puts effort into it. You know, it's not just pouring a glass of cranberry juice. It's like, no you know, how can you kind of jazz these drinks up, remove the alcohol, but like you said, still provide people with the ritual of like congregating over drinks and, and, you know, talking and,
00:17:40
Speaker
and having them be included rather than take them out of the equation just because they don't drink alcohol. Right. There shouldn't be that stigma. um yeah Because yes, some people want to take a tolerance break. They want to have a dry January or a dry tober or dry whatever.
00:17:55
Speaker
and they want to maybe um to refocus on some goals and there shouldn't be this like undercurrent of, well, why are you doing that? I had a, i love this bit by a comedian. I forget who exactly about how people react whenever you tell them that you don't drink or you're not drinking.
00:18:12
Speaker
And they say, Why? Are you are you? Is there a problem? Are you addicted? And he compared it to you wouldn't do that with mayonnaise like, oh, I don't eat mayonnaise.
00:18:22
Speaker
Why are you addicted to mayonnaise? You wouldn't ask that. That's such a good point. Right.
Hybrid Cocktail Experiences
00:18:30
Speaker
um But yeah, a few months ago, whenever you and i were in Milwaukee for the Wisconsin State Fair, which we did an episode on, listen to it if you haven't yet, we visited a really special place called The Agency, and it is the country's very first hybrid cocktail bar.
00:18:50
Speaker
my name is Ryan Castellez. I am a drink maker, kind of toned CEO slash drink maker, which has been a really interesting transition from being a guy who puts things in tins in the middle of the woods to leading 30 people across five businesses. It's been a pretty wild journey and it's still honestly catching my tail a little bit every day.
00:19:12
Speaker
um My role with Agency is as a service director and founder. So i work with Kat, who's our operating partner. She is really the brains and the brawn behind the day-to-day at Agency.
00:19:26
Speaker
as She does all the ordering, the training, designs the menus. Agency would not be a thing without Kat Doty. She is just an incredible, incredible, incredible partner and an incredible mind and visionary.
00:19:38
Speaker
We came up with the idea the Agency kind of as an evolution ah a bar that we were trying to run called The Counter. It's been a really fun concept to be able to put into the world and to to share with people and ah to see reactions. you know I think anytime you do something new and weird, it's fun to see how people react to it. So this has been a really a really fun concept to bring out to people.
00:20:02
Speaker
A core part of our work truly for both Kent and I is um what we call like narrative drink development. you know So we're we're building narrative frameworks. And when i when i talk about drink making in general, I talk about two forms of drink making. So we have top-down drink making and we have bottom-up drink making.
00:20:18
Speaker
um I think most, a lot a lot of bars, a lot of coffee shops build from a bottom-up perspective, which is awesome and we do this too, right? So a bottom-up drink would be, these are the ingredients I have in front of me, this is what I have in the fridge, this is what I have in the bath bar, and I'm going to take these ingredients to make a drink. And and while I'm combining these ingredients, a story will the present itself.
00:20:40
Speaker
And that story that presents itself by the combination of these ingredients is the overall end goal of that drink. um A tap-down drink, which is where we spend a lot of our time currently, um is we actually start with the story.
00:20:52
Speaker
We start with the idea. And from that idea, we fill in the ingredients that best talent. And so that's that's been a practice that we've honed in and developed over over many, many years of How do we build an actual translatable framework of ingredients, textures, flavors, tonalities, temperatures, smells, presentation um that actually starts to trigger um both psychological and physiological responses that are in alignment with our story?
The Craft of Bartending
00:21:23
Speaker
I think the bar scene is continuing to evolve in really exciting ways. Primarily, I think one of the biggest evolutions that we've seen over the last 20 years, technology has become a much bigger thing bar world, um in large part to Dave Arnold and his publishing of the book Liquid Intelligence.
00:21:42
Speaker
um I think when that book came out, it was kind of a ah new manifesto for the bartender of, wait, there's there's actually a lot more to this than we thought. You know, like not only there is there this craft, but there's also this science um and there's also this art.
00:21:57
Speaker
and And I think that's what I love about drink making is what I love so much about this field is it is this perfect union of science and art. um There is both and both are necessary. And the more science you know, the better art you can make.
00:22:10
Speaker
The other is the move towards NA. um And I think This will be this is not a trend, it is a movement and it is a movement that is accelerating with wild intensity.
00:22:23
Speaker
um If you look at the compound annual growth rate right now of the alcoholic segment, you're right in between 1 and 2%. um If you look at the compound annual growth rate of the non-alcoholic segment, you're right in between 8 and 10%.
00:22:35
Speaker
We are literally growing the NA segment four to five times faster than alcohol. but This is not a trend, this is a movement. um and And I think what is so important um is that bars recognize, all bars, that in order to maintain relevancy going into the future, um you need to be able to cater to both of these programs and you need to be able to offer both of these offers.
Community Focus in Milwaukee Dive Bars
00:22:59
Speaker
Diab bars for me are all about the community. It's like, ah do I feel comfortable here? That's really that's really the question, right? Because like the beers are going to be pretty much the same.
00:23:10
Speaker
The cocktails are going to be in most diab bars pretty much the same. For me, I think the number one thing is how comfortable do I feel there? I think in Milwaukee, we're really blessed because we have a couple bars that um have this very low-brow approach to the way that they um approach bartending, but also the cocktails are delicious.
00:23:29
Speaker
They're exemplary. you know ah Mothership and Thinks are the two that I think of all the time. I think Tin Widow even has a little bit of these vibes where they're not lust, and they're not trying to be. They're community watering holes, but the cocktails are great because why not make great drinks?
00:23:45
Speaker
like like and And I love that mentality. I think it's so, so cool. You Rookie using the sous vide at Mothership and most people go there and they get a $2 pint of hams. It's just so cool that the there are drink makers in the city. ah Johnny Haffney is another guy.
00:24:01
Speaker
He has a wild pedigree. It is like watching a dancer dance when you watch this dude bartend. And he bartends at things. you know it's It's a dive bar with nice cocktails. you know ah and And so I think that there's a luck that we have in Milwaukee where dive bar culture here is so developed that we we're able to have these bars that are just little outlets of deliciousness. um And I think we see that primarily all over the Midwest. you know i I know many in Chicago as well that that have these divey little are watering hole fields and then you order cocktails and it's like wait, damn, that's actually really good.
00:24:36
Speaker
you know So we can talk and wax poetic about this all fucking day. I can literally talk about this shit till the cows come home. um But if you come into agency and have a bad drink and a bad experience, nothing that I said matters at all.
00:24:48
Speaker
Right. but Because it's just it's just fallacy. and And so it's the people on the ground floor of this, people like Kat. Alana, our principal bartender, Tierra and Nova, our servers. like These are the people who are actually taking everything that we've just talked about and translating it to the guests in a way that they get to experience and understand and and enjoy.
00:25:09
Speaker
I'm an extremely small part of a very beautiful interworking web that that creates this dynamic. and And I think all of the best bars, whether you're a dive bar or you're a craft cocktail bar operating the highest level, um share that philosophy.
00:25:26
Speaker
i think I need to address the elephant in the room. Can you please one, give me an overview of what spaghet is and and tell listeners the journey we went on because of this. A spaghet is a Miller High Life with Aperol sounds interesting, right? It's like you get this like pink, they put the Aperol in the Miller High Life. It's like a pink, ah reddish anyway. So that's what a spaghet is.
00:25:52
Speaker
then when we get to this, this bar, the agency, Ryan was like, hey, do you know what a spaghetti is? We have something similar, but they made it hilarious to where they atomized spaghetti sauce and created their own label for the Miller High Life.
00:26:11
Speaker
That was like grandma's special sauce or something. No, it is It is a play on um the but Eminem song. Mom's spaghetti. Yes. Champagne of pasta.
00:26:23
Speaker
Yeah. And they so they sprayed this spaghetti atomized spaghetti sauce into the high life. So when you take a sip. you It really tastes like spaghetti. And that was just their tongue in cheek way of like shaping that. And they served it with a breadstick.
00:26:41
Speaker
They yeah like Yeah. It was just such a fun experience being there. And the way like... Ryan brought it out. he He put on some white gloves. They were set and he displayed it. It was the most hilarious, well thought out and bizarre drink I've ever had.
00:26:57
Speaker
i mean, look, we had to split it. I don't think I could down multiples of these, but I would highly recommend if you're ever in the Milwaukee area, you have to try this cocktail. It is bananas. 100%. Yeah.
00:27:08
Speaker
yeah And, and it was just, it's a place where you can go, you can bring your friends who don't drink, and you could still get everyone gets the same experience there, which I think is very cool, because you can't just go into any bar with a non drinker and have the same experience.
00:27:24
Speaker
But this is like you go into the agency, whether you drink or you don't, it's a shared experience. It is. And what's so special, I think, about that experience we had together, but also the magic of any dive bar, is that it's the experience and it's the stories.
00:27:41
Speaker
And these bars are often run by passionate owners, and they've probably seen it all from wild nights to karaoke moments, feather boas, strange line dancing, and even just more heartfelt moments. And, you know, dive bars aren't just about the drinks.
00:28:00
Speaker
which might be the overarching theme. We already discussed the cheers mentality. And that's why i think there is this resurgence in dive bars or being an ironic dive bar.
00:28:13
Speaker
ah You know, it's your, there are places that offer connection and comfort, sometimes even healing. you're talking to somebody that you would never like talk to on the street and you guys just happen to be splitting a beer and like, what a great way to get to know your neighbor in a safe space, you know? yeah And these dive bars act as these neighborhood anchors, places that you know you'll be welcomed with open arms, a cold drink, and they'll probably remember your name the second time you go in there, which is very special.
00:28:45
Speaker
And I will say, like, I know we are a waxing poetic on dive bars, but I just, just, you know, girly things I wanted to put out there. You can read the room if something doesn't feel friendly.
00:28:56
Speaker
As much as I love yeah walking into a random bar and with the best intention, sometimes maybe it's not the cheers mentality you're walking into. so i would just say, be open to it.
00:29:08
Speaker
Don't be afraid of it because so, so many of these dive bars are welcoming, wonderful places and you should not judge a book by its cover. But sometimes there are moments where you're like, well, I am going to peace out of this place. yeah I gave it a try. And it's okay to, you know, I've ah've done the turnaround. I don't know if you've seen that Simpsons clip where Grandpa Simpson walks in, sees Bart at the, well, I'm going down a rabbit hole. But basically, you can 180 if you need to. Don't feel like you're silly or awkward. um Yeah, that's ah actually, that's a very valid point. And a great thing to touch on is that
00:29:40
Speaker
you know, like, cause me personally, I usually try dive bars with other people. I'm not really going alone. Cause that's not something i necessarily feel comfortable with. Um, but yeah, trust your intuition and make sure it's a safe, uh, environment for you to be in. And yeah, if you have to leave, you have to leave no harm, no foul.
00:30:01
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Um, but yeah, to, just to move forward as we think about The future of dive bars with rising w rents, changing neighborhoods.
Challenges Facing Dive Bars Today
00:30:12
Speaker
A lot of dive bars do face uncertain futures because look, even if they're not evolving their offerings and adding mixology, if they really are a no frills, we have Bud Light, Miller Light, some well drinks.
00:30:26
Speaker
Sometimes it there is some uncertainty there. I'm sure the margins aren't crazy good. um yeah But still, a lot of them are finding ways to thrive and finding ways to connect with new generations and adjusting to modern tastes. And i truly hope that more and more dive bars can take a note from the more successful ones.
00:30:46
Speaker
Cloak and Dagger is an intimate cocktail lounge and vegan restaurant that is focused around craft cocktails and shareable from scratch vegan small plates. The menu format is in the style of a book, which we release every three to four months. The cocktails are themed around the book itself.
00:31:04
Speaker
The intention when launching Cloak & Dagger was to first and foremost create a bar that was lasting and much different than anything available in Cleveland. We do that by offering a completely vegan dining experience from cocktails to all the food in a comfortable space with no TVs in a very intimate setting.
00:31:23
Speaker
I think that what makes us truly special is the menus. We release menus that are so immersive. The theme of the book makes you want to drink and eat your way through the entire menu.
00:31:34
Speaker
When we release a new menu three to four times a year, it's always something new and exclusive because it isn't going to stay around long. I think bar culture has shifted in some ways and in a lot of ways it's still at its core the same thing.
00:31:49
Speaker
Dive bars still have a place, cocktail lounges still have a place, and the restaurants with a good signature cocktail list all have places. But it has shifted where creativity drives lasting business.
00:32:02
Speaker
Pushing limits of what can be put in cocktails or how they
Marketing Dive Bars in the Digital Age
00:32:05
Speaker
look is endless. Even dive bars now have signature cocktail menus, and I think that's really cool. I think staying relevant is a two-headed dragon most times.
00:32:15
Speaker
um You have to have people talking about you. Word of mouth is probably the strongest thing that you can have, and the way you get word of mouth is by having great hospitality and having a great product.
00:32:27
Speaker
But there is the social media side of things, and I think that is... becoming stronger and stronger this day and age. The creative process for me always starts about a year in advance.
00:32:39
Speaker
I start working on my menu release timeline. Each year, about a year in a head, planning the themes and what they're going to be, what they're going to look like. I start talking about it. i start talking about my cocktails idea ideas, even if they're just rough.
00:32:53
Speaker
I like to draw, and I think that's probably the most interesting thing is even though I'm not the best at it, I draw all my cocktails before I ever make them. I even have this notebook that I carry around that I drew the bar before we saw it, and it's pretty close. It's pretty pretty damn close.
00:33:12
Speaker
The best winter cocktail, in my opinion, is something that's going to be booze forward and served hot. I'm a big fan of hot toddies or hot rum punches. I've made both of those on cloak and dagger menus, and they're heavy favorites, but I probably like them because I'm a freeze baby, so they serve them multipurpose at that point.
00:33:31
Speaker
Favorite dive bar is ah a question that hits home since I'm a new mom. I don't get out very much, but my favorite one when we do go out is i like Edison's a lot. It's only a few blocks from Cloak and Dagger, so it's a favorite late night spot or an after shift spot for most of us.
00:33:50
Speaker
ah They have a great beer selection, a pool table, and a great patty on the back when the weather's nice. It's a very chill vibe, and there's even ah pizza by the slice shop right next door if you're hungry.
00:34:03
Speaker
like i don't know. it's kind It's similar to if you ever watched Anthony Bourdain when he travels. yeah yeah He's just like going into these places, you know no frills,
00:34:15
Speaker
And just connecting with people. And I feel like that is what dive bar culture is at its root is connection. It is. Yeah. yeah And I feel like that's um that's something I know i issued that warning earlier about like keeping your head on a swivel, but please open your hearts to having these connections because you're going to have unforgettable experiences if you are willing to do this.
00:34:39
Speaker
So whether it is a classic dive bar or maybe a modern twist on one, I think it is safe to say, Marissa, that dive bars are probably here to stay. Yeah.
00:34:50
Speaker
yeah um So whether they're serving up drinks or a sense of community, that is just why we love them and why I love them. And I hope that um I have more and more dive bar experiences the years to come. but