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Inked in History: Tattoos, Myths, and Modern Culture
239 Plays3 months ago
Tattoos have been around for thousands of years, but they continue to evolve in style, meaning, and perception. In this episode of States of Discovery, Sara and Marisa explore the history, science, and cultural significance of body art. From ancient traditions to modern ink trends, they debunk myths, discuss safety concerns, and dive into the shifting landscape of tattoo culture—especially how women, LGBTQ+ artists, and people of color are shaping the industry today.
In This Episode, We Cover:
- The science behind tattoos—how ink stays in your skin and what it's made of.
- The history of tattoos, from ancient civilizations to modern trends.
- The myths about tattoos and employment—can you really not get a job if you have one?
- Traditional tattoo techniques, including hand-poked and batok tattooing.
- The rise of women-owned and queer-owned tattoo shops creating safe spaces.
- How the tattoo industry is evolving and becoming more inclusive.
Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review States of Discovery on your favorite podcast platform. We love hearing from our listeners, so share your own tattoo stories and suggestions for future episodes with us!
Connect With Us:
- Phone Number: 805-298-1420 - Leave us a message! We’d love to hear from you.
- Email: podcast@onlyinyourstate.com
🎧 Tune in now and join us on this deep dive into tattoo culture, history, and artistry!
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Transcript
Tattoo Travel Adventures
00:00:04
Speaker
gonna have my sister leave a comment because we travel to get tattoos together. Like when we travel together, we meet up in different cities. We find a tattoo shop and we get, i have a bunch that's like, one's in Oregon or in Austin, Texas. or So traveling too, obviously is such a cool idea to get a tattoo where you go. and My big idea is to, I think I shared this with you before, but I do want to do travel tattoos and I almost did an Edinburgh a couple years ago, but I want to get local cryptid for every spot that I visit.
00:00:34
Speaker
And I'm like, can't wait. You have to, it's gonna, it's gonna happen.
Welcome to 'States of Discovery'
00:00:42
Speaker
Hey everyone, welcome back to States of Discovery. And today we are talking about something that I am personally very excited about. And I think my co-host Marissa is also a little excited about the the topic today.
00:00:55
Speaker
Yes, I'm stoked. We are diving into something that's been around for thousands of years, still ever evolving. we are talking about tattoos.
Personal Tattoo Journeys
00:01:05
Speaker
Oh, yes. Tattoos. I know we teed this up earlier and ah in our trailer for the season, but tattoos are near and dear to my heart. It's not something i have done my entire life, but you know ever since I think I i got into my mid-30s, and I'm like, you know what? I'm going to get serious about this now.
00:01:24
Speaker
you know Yeah. Yeah. More ink, more ink, more ink. Yeah, I i definitely, I'm with you. Although I did get my first tattoo, I think I was 17. wow. With my mom's blessing.
00:01:37
Speaker
ah She actually got the same one and my older sister got the same one. which is very cute bonding experience. um And my mom is like, she's very straight edge. Sorry, mom.
00:01:49
Speaker
But she, you know, like, yeah, well, like, I don't want everyone's gonna picture her, you know, as like, tattooed with sleeves and stuff. But my mom has, i think, two tattoos.
00:02:00
Speaker
And one is in honor of her pets. One, obviously, her
Societal Views on Tattoos
00:02:04
Speaker
daughters. She's a very sentimental person. But Um, just like curious, you said you didn't really get into tattoos until later in life. What was that like for you growing up?
00:02:15
Speaker
Was it, um, you know, ah an issue? Did people talk about tattoos negatively? Uh, yeah, there is. So there's still stigma around tattoos today, but in my mindset, little Sarah was like, if I get a tattoo, no one will ever hire me or take me seriously. Yeah. What am I going to do Why would I ever, what, what tattoo would I even get? Even though i think, you know, 15 year old Sarah still has like the same general instance, interests as 36 year old Sarah. So, yeah you know, it's,
00:02:48
Speaker
It's just something I didn't think I would ever give, but I thought they looked so cool. I was always like so in awe of people that have tattoos. And even today, if I see someone with a lot of ink, I'm like, oh my God, they look so cool.
00:02:59
Speaker
I yeah appreciate that. you know i Where do you think that comes from? Just because I have the same sentiment. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's like you're you're customizing your body. i don't It's just they kind of like self-expression. And even like when it comes to you know unique hair or how people dress or just they they feel that ability to express themselves in a way that is so authentic.
Generational Changes in Tattoo Acceptance
00:03:24
Speaker
Yeah. um Plus, it just looks cool. I don't i don't know. there's something visceral about it. um Yeah, I'm with you. But I'm also like I'm thinking about my dad who hates tattoos.
00:03:36
Speaker
He does not think they look cool. And yet all of his kids, had we all have tattoos and we all have a lot of tattoos. Yeah. But I think it's interesting how some people can look at at tattoo and see it as self-expression, see it as art, see it as this very beautiful thing. And then other people have they do have these stigmas of like, will you ever get a job? That was something that was told to me too. like If you have visible tattoos, make sure they're not visible because yeah you'll never get a job.
00:04:07
Speaker
yep and And now I think that's, you know, and sure, it's still applicable to certain jobs. Absolutely. But I feel like especially our generation, younger generations, we're all kind of tattooed in some way or another, most of us.
00:04:22
Speaker
So that stigma is kind of like fading out a little bit. I think so. Also, um I mean, kind of to that question, well you know, how are you going to get a job if you have a tattoo, especially if you have a visible tattoo? So like yeah hand, arm, neck, anything else like that. um And it it it is complicated because, sure, like you said, there are probably some professions to where there's like this incredible Look, I don't think it ever actually impacts your ability to do a job well, to be respectful, to be, to excel at your career, anything like that. But I, of course, there are certain positions to where maybe it does. You know, if if I got a face tat in the next week, I have ah ah feeling that it could impact my professional trajectory just because there are certain assumptions people make about certain kinds of
Cultural Significance of Tattoos
00:05:12
Speaker
tattoos.
00:05:12
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with that. And I think that's very interesting because... You know, growing up, yeah, it was this whole stigma around visible tattoos. And now I feel like as we are getting older, we're in this time where hand tattoos, neck tattoos are more that' theyre more way more common than when I was younger.
00:05:33
Speaker
But when you just said face tattoo, there was something in me that was like, oh, that's pushing it too far. So it's like, I already have these like preconceived notions about tattoos growing up in my head about what's acceptable and what's not. But I feel like as the years go by...
00:05:48
Speaker
we are way more accepting of them as a whole. Yes. And it has to depend on the culture too. As we're going to get into in this episode, we're going to talk about maybe our, our, you know, millennial culture in the West and then some other cultures that fully embrace these tattoos where we might think, oh, wow, that seems extreme, but there's a cultural significance and history behind it that makes it so accepted and even encouraged.
00:06:11
Speaker
Right. And I think that's what I was so excited about for this episode was the history behind tattoos as when it comes to being cultural markers, when it comes to you know Certain communities view tattoos as this very like honorable thing.
00:06:33
Speaker
this yeah and it's just It's very interesting to see how tattoos have progressed in certain parts of the world. and We're going to dive into that specifically into this in this episode, which I'm super stoked
Tattoo Experiences and Meaning
00:06:44
Speaker
about.
00:06:44
Speaker
But I do want to chat a little bit about your most recent tattoo experience. You just got tattooed like a week ago. i did less than week ago. Yeah. For this episode. No, just kidding. yeah You know what? it's um I'm expensing it later.
00:07:01
Speaker
um So i've I have a unique approach on tattoos. just And I think i would love to hear what your approach is too. there are some people who come up to you. i remember this happened at Wisconsin State Fair.
00:07:12
Speaker
remember so vividly this woman coming up saying, oh, so what do your tattoos mean? And so often, so often the answer isn't satisfactory with the person asking. um So just to back it up though, whenever I first started getting tattoos, I had all of these like grand ideas and designs.
00:07:30
Speaker
I was sketching out and I thought like, oh, they're all going to like tie in all the things that are so important to me. And with each tattoo, additional tattoo, i get more and more unhinged with what I want. Like, like not this session, but the one before I'm like, you know what? I want one that is an an interal interdimensional cat. I want it to be phasing out.
00:07:48
Speaker
I want it to like be kind of like sh Schrodinger's cat, but also not really. And that was my guide. i was like, okay, this is what I'm going for. I love that. and So yeah, I just got another tattoo recently. And once again, it was kind of like I decided the night before via text, panic texts, as I was updating them, like I don't know how it's going to go.
00:08:08
Speaker
But no, that's them it's it's it's there's an evolution. so I'm curious for you. How about you? Whenever you go to your you know next session or your most recent session, because it wasn't too long that you got your tattoo, um how do you how do you plan it? Is it more emotion-based? spur of the moment? What happens?
00:08:25
Speaker
Yeah, similar to you. i feel like I started out with this idea that all my tattoos had to have meanings. Otherwise, why would I be forever putting them on my body?
00:08:37
Speaker
And then I think you the more you get tattooed, the more you realize that that is kind of like a tattoo stereotype that we're all a little bit like predisposed to growing up.
00:08:48
Speaker
um And for me, it's it's a lot about visual. I do have very sentimental tattoos. Like I have my grandparents' signatures, which is very special to me. i have, you know, a tattoo honoring my first dog that passed away.
00:09:01
Speaker
um so like I have sentimental tattoos, but sometimes I'll just look on um Pinterest and find something that is really cool. yeah and And I'm just like, I want this and I i want the, you know, tattoo artist interpretation of what this is.
00:09:16
Speaker
yeah and And then it's just like a really cool thing that's on your body that you love.
Tattoo Process and Safety
00:09:22
Speaker
And yeah, I, yeah. Okay. Well, I do want to dig into this even more towards the end of the episode because we have some great talking points about like just like the evolution. So I don't want to i don't want to go too heavy in the front of the episode, but I do want to talk about what a tattoo actually is because just recently, i actually had an epiphany that I think I was misunderstanding how a tattoo gun worked.
00:09:45
Speaker
um So, okay. What happens when you get a tattoo? ah So basically... You are getting micro wounds. It's it one giant open wound, essentially. That's why the healing guidelines and protocol are so important.
00:10:02
Speaker
One, to preserving the ink, to not getting an infection, um to not blowing out certain lines, which is whenever certain lines get instead of being very crisp. They are actually quite fuzzy around certain edges. And that can happen too, even after a tattoo is healed.
00:10:16
Speaker
But what happens is that you just basically have a range of needles, either depending on what ah tip they use. It could be a huge, ah wide range of a bunch of needles or just a few to do fine lines. And it is just puncturing the skin.
00:10:31
Speaker
And then the ink gets deposited. That's really as simple as it is. Yeah. And just crazy to think about because basically we're just getting repeatedly stabbed and our body is like, okay, this is it. This is forever. We're keeping this.
00:10:48
Speaker
Yes. And the most important bit is like going through the epidermis down to the dermis. That's where it stays because you'll shed the top layer of skin yeah um as it heals. But once you get, it's almost like trauma. Once it's deep enough, it's there, you know, you're not really going to have to get rid of it. yeah.
00:11:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think I i just too had a realization of what a tattoo gun was by if something popped up on Instagram that was, it's like a create your own tattoo gun at home.
00:11:19
Speaker
called, I think, ruin your life is what it's called. And it is, they send you parts, these makeshift parts to create your own tattoo gun. It's like ah a C battery, ah like a rubber band tape to tape it up, a huge needle.
00:11:35
Speaker
And then this mechanism, is this like a little electrodes that plug into the battery. And I was like, oh my gosh, that's the last thing that people need is to have just like these rogue tattoo guns sending shipping from Instagram. Oh no. And also like, I don't know about your experience with artists, but because they're injecting pigment deep into your skin, it's a giant wound.
00:11:55
Speaker
There's gloves, sanitization, like any time my artist would put the gun down and pick something else up, she'd swap gloves. yeah i Those Instagram guns, they're not guns, but tattoo guns. They are not going to be um you know as as sanitary, I would think, at home.
00:12:13
Speaker
Yeah. And yes, I, that's very important to me too, is some, is you have to make sure that it's a sanitary experience. ah You know, obviously no reusing needles, make sure there are new needles for you.
00:12:27
Speaker
And, um and yeah, let's talk a little bit about ink because I've personally had reactions to certain inks that, um you know, because most people just think an ink is an ink is an ink.
00:12:40
Speaker
But what is being injected into your skin when you get a tattoo is very important. um I didn't personally think about it until I had a reaction to a certain color pigment that I was like, oh, so this is a thing, you know?
00:12:56
Speaker
and was it red or orange? Yeah. Yeah, it was red. Yeah. And it wasn't until later. it was red and and a pink too. And it wasn't until later in life that i this was like a new thing.
00:13:09
Speaker
But um yeah, let's talk about ink a little bit and and what it is and what we're putting into our bodies. Okay. So whenever we have these tattoo guns, they are creating these little wounds.
00:13:21
Speaker
And it's not like it is injecting the essentially creating void to where the ink that is on the gun gets like sucked into your skin essentially. And this ink can either be organic or synthetic and they both have their pros and cons.
00:13:37
Speaker
Yeah. And I think what's interesting, the ink particles, your immune system is actually fighting the ink because the ink particles are too big to break down. So they're staying in place.
00:13:49
Speaker
If you've ever had a tattoo, you know, the healing process is very important. um And so when we think about ink, you mentioned organic and synthetic. Organic sounds like it might be the better choice. Like this is all natural, obviously good for you.
00:14:03
Speaker
ah But is that the case? Yeah, I mean, you would think so, but honestly, maybe not because organic inks are derived from natural sources. So like plant-based materials or crushed min minerals, but just because it's natural doesn't mean it's totally safe because some organic inks contain heavy metals like cadmium, mercury, or even arsenic.
00:14:25
Speaker
Spoiler alert, ah those are not that great for you, especially you're injecting pigments into your skin that stay there forever. Yeah. How terrifying. um but So, okay. So you would think that then synthetic is the way to go versus organic?
00:14:41
Speaker
Well, I mean, also maybe, yeah you know, I feel like synthetic inks, they are created with lab pigments and sometimes plastic-based compounds to enhance vibrancy of the colors.
00:14:53
Speaker
They can be more stable and consistent, but there are varying formulas that can be harmful as well because there could be formaldehyde or even lead in
Traditional Tattoo Techniques
00:15:03
Speaker
the inks. Also not good.
00:15:05
Speaker
Yeah. So both basically have their own risks. ah Yeah. Yeah. And I think also too, it's important to note that as time goes on, the formulas for these inks are evolving. They're realizing that people have allergies, have sensitivities to certain minerals, have you know certain minerals are poisonous.
00:15:26
Speaker
um So inks are much, much safer now than they than they used to be. and now they're even vegan inks, which are free of animal-based glycerin and certain chemicals.
00:15:37
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's really cool. um Obviously, I love that. Um, so, okay. Also, weren't there some concerns about ink colors being linked back to types of cancer?
00:15:50
Speaker
Yes. So that is true. i will caveat this with the fact that there are a lot of stats going around the internet right now of like, oh, did you know that certain percentage of tattoos will cost... cant First of all, a lot of these stats can be skewed.
00:16:06
Speaker
And it's the typical, if you slice and dice a stat a certain way, it's going to seem terrible. But actually the the instances of these inks or certain kinds of tattoos being carcinogenic are a lot lower than you think.
00:16:17
Speaker
um There are some that do have risks. So red ink, like we mentioned before, those red pigments used to contain mercury sulfide, which have been linked to certain skin reactions and carcinogenic effects.
00:16:28
Speaker
And the EU even banned blue and green pigments due to similar safety concerns. Yeah. So I think ah essentially if someone's worried about the type of ink for their tattoo, not not to make people worried or concerned about getting tattoos, but I do think this is an important step, especially if you just have overall safety questions, what should they do before their tattoo appointment?
00:16:54
Speaker
You know, and doesn it doesn't hurt to research, but I think the the simplest thing is to s ask an expert, you're your artist, your Yeah, I think that's a good call too.
00:17:05
Speaker
And it's interesting because, um you know, like a lot of this stuff, a lot of these things we're talking about when it comes to ink and and whatnot, inks have come a long way. I know that you met you've mentioned that. And a lot of these, what we're talking about in terms of just the synthetic and organic having different harmful additives, a lot of that is being processed out as technology evolves for tattooing in general. So that's important to keep in mind.
00:17:35
Speaker
And, but with that said, let's dive into some old tattooing techniques because long before we had these tattoo guns, people were using all kinds of very creative, sometimes painful ways to get a tattoo.
00:17:53
Speaker
Yes. ah So ah even today and in modern shop, you can see traditional coil tattoo guns, which are a lot more intensive than the more modern cordless, battery operated, nearly silent tattoo guns. But you know traditional methods have been around for thousands of years. And one that's actually making a big comeback, and both in millennial and Gen Z culture is the classic stick and poke.
00:18:20
Speaker
Yeah, stick and poke is everywhere. I feel like I see that everybody, every other person on TikTok has a little ah hand poked thing that they got from their friend or, you know, who knows where it's coming from.
00:18:35
Speaker
Yeah, it's super trendy. And I remember ah back in like around 2015, 16, when I was living in Manhattan, a lot of my friends were starting to get stick and pokes. was like, what? This sounds like a terrible idea. Why would you do this?
00:18:47
Speaker
And I think it's just been growing since then, but they've been around forever. It's one of the earliest tattooing methods and it's been used by cultures around the world. So from indigenous communities to Egyptian priests, ah it's the same concept behind a modern tattoo machine. It's just you are poking your skin and getting ink into the dermis dot by dot.
00:19:11
Speaker
Right. And it's so funny that we have this um idea that this sounds more painful or more risky or whatever versus what we're doing now. But in reality, it really has been around for so long.
00:19:27
Speaker
It's just a single needle dipped in ink, repeatedly poked into the skin, creates an image, bada bing, bada boom. You're done. It's a much slower process, but when it's done correctly,
00:19:38
Speaker
you you can have some really beautiful, intricate designs that maybe in some regards are more controlled than with a tattoo gun. Very true.
00:19:49
Speaker
um And I wanted to talk about one of the most legendary tattoo traditions, the Bataka Filipino hand-tapped tattooing method. Bataka has been practiced for centuries by indigenous groups in the Philippines, especially the Kalinga people, and it's done using a bad a bamboo stick with a thorn attached to it.
00:20:05
Speaker
which is dipped in ink and then tapped into the skin using another stick. So basically they have two long sticks. One has the ah the um the the sharp thorn on it with the ink, and the other is used to just tap it in.
00:20:20
Speaker
Tap, tap, tap it in. Yeah. So one strike at a time, literally, no needles, just tapping in. Mm-hmm. Interesting. and And yeah, it's not about decoration either. So a lot of these historic tattoos and ones especially associated with different cultures, it's deeply tied to identity, status, and spirituality.
00:20:41
Speaker
So traditionally, Kalinga warriors earn their tattoos by proving their brave role bravery in battle. Okay, so similar to what we're saying, it's very honorable to get tattooed as a Kalinga warrior.
00:20:54
Speaker
Exactly. and And women also receive the talk for their beauty and to symbolize milestones in their lives. Cool. I think that's really neat too, just in general, what we're, everything is, it's like tattooing all results in the same way of transporting ink into the body.
00:21:13
Speaker
It's just different methods of doing it, which I think is very, very neat to kind of like ah just honor these traditions that have been around for so long and just everybody kind of does it in their own way, which I think is really cool.
00:21:31
Speaker
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00:21:48
Speaker
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00:21:56
Speaker
And then, yeah, I, we can't, we have to talk about Wong Ah, the oldest tattoo artist. I think she was the oldest Vogue cover model too, which was just like absolutely gorgeous. Everybody go Google that Vogue cover.
00:22:11
Speaker
She is an absolute legend. Yeah, so Wang Ad is over 100 years old and is considered the last Mamba Batak or traditional Kalinga tattoo artist. And she's been hand tapping tattoos since she was a teen and now is passing down the tradition two younger generations. it's It's incredible.
00:22:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's so cool. I love absolutely love that she's making sure that this ancient art form is not lost anymore. It's going to be continued for generations to come. And people from all over the world travel to her village just to be tattooed by her.
Global Tattoo Traditions
00:22:47
Speaker
Obviously, this is something I would love to add to my travel wishlist. I'm assuming her tattoo books are probably closed for the next 10 years. but well yeah. Yeah. No, she really is a living legend. And she I know we said over 100, but I want to say she's 108 9 this year. like She is up there.
00:23:06
Speaker
And people really do travel all over the world. And her tattoos are a mixture of soot and water for ink, which is very... traditional And her she has a booklet of designs you can pick from, but each has a symbolic meaning like protection, strength, or connection to nature. I know that whenever I see people who travel to um get these tattoos, especially of Filipino heritage, I think it's really special and and important that they're able to do that from this quite literal OG tattoo.
00:23:36
Speaker
Yeah, for real. And that's what makes traditional tattooing so special, that this is not just body art here. It's actual storytelling. And people aren't just going to somebody like Wong Ad for a cool tattoo.
00:23:52
Speaker
They're honoring this very, very old tradition that deserves real recognition. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No, it's it's it's so important. And no matter what the purpose is behind someone traveling to get a tattoo like this, I feel like it deserves a level of respect no matter what.
00:24:12
Speaker
Yeah, completely. And yeah, tattoos aren't, they're they're not just cool. that yeah it There's more to it. There's history, which I didn't know the history of this. you i think you knew of this, Utsi, before, but do you want to tell us about the oldest known tattooed human?
00:24:31
Speaker
Yeah, so the oldest known tattooed human, Utsi the Iceman. I listened to some podcasts about Utsi who was discovered in the ice, very well-preserved body, you know, leather,
00:24:43
Speaker
hair tattoos, obviously. So it's like really interesting. If you want to like dig deeper into Etsy, you should definitely look it up. But he lived over 5,000 years ago and his tattoos are believed to be therapeutic placed on acupuncture points.
00:24:57
Speaker
acu puncture point That's really fascinating to just have, um gosh, I mean, really just the segue from going from honoring warriors in battle to acupuncture points to recognizing your community, your traditions two tattoos now are just a way of like self-reporting.
00:25:21
Speaker
representation, I think is really neat. And we have to honor these cultures that and the ancient Egyptians had tattoos, Polynesians developed intricate tattoo traditions. And obviously, you can't forget about the Yakuza in Japan.
00:25:35
Speaker
Yeah. And the Yakuza use full body tattoos as a status symbol. But in Japan, specifically, they were linked to criminals. And Yeah. And so that that's another stigma. Tattoos equal criminals. That is not just in Japan strictly for the Yakuza. Many cultures actually use tattoos to mark prisoners, enslaved people, outcasts.
00:25:58
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And the thing is, when you travel to Japan, and you know, if you ever are interested, you actually have to be aware there are a lot of places that don't allow display tattoos. So if you ever want to visit an onsen, which is like a hot springs, there are certain ones that you have to go to if you want, if you have publicly displayed tattoos, and you don't want to cover them up. So either you can go to a private onsen to where it's like, okay, it's in your hotel room, doesn't matter, you can get in as you like.
00:26:23
Speaker
But if you wanted to go to a public one, more than likely you and I would not be permitted because very visible tattoos. Yeah, I think that's just also a good thing to note that when you're traveling to other countries, just be very cognizant about their culture, their um laws.
00:26:41
Speaker
i think that's very interesting too to consider. um You know, my sister just went to Singapore before she had a trip in India. And there were a lot of things she had to consider traveling in Singapore, um you know, tattoos or even down to chewing gum.
00:27:00
Speaker
But just obviously make sure you're doing your research before you're you're going into another country. No, that that it's I mean, it's just a general good thing to do because you want to respect the culture. So if they're if you do need to wear a certain garb, cover certain things, act in a certain way, you know i think it's it's just really important to be respectful because across the world, especially when it comes to tattoos, they're viewing them so differently depending on the history and culture.
00:27:26
Speaker
So even though in certain cultures like Japan where Maybe for a long period of time, they were associated with criminal behavior or criminals. But if you go to somewhere like New Zealand and the Maori have those, ah like the Tomoko tattoos, those are very, you know, it's a beauty of symbol of beauty, strength, and identity. That's, it's very important to them. And it's a much, much different interpretation of tattoos.
Modern Tattoo Styles and Artistry
00:27:53
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that's, it's very fascinating how tattoos can mean different things in different countries. It can mean empowerment in one culture, like what you're saying, but also it can mean oppression in another culture.
00:28:08
Speaker
Yeah. And honestly, no matter which way you cut it, though, because it is such a and permanent, well, now that we know, somewhat permanent um and body modification and how people connect to their roots, to what's important to them, I think it's just truly beautiful.
00:28:26
Speaker
Yeah. And it is amazing how these traditions, they really evolve over time. Some methods have stayed the same four centuries. Others, like you with in our country, are adapting to more modern times.
00:28:42
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And in modern America, the way that tattoo culture has just you know grown and is seriously booming as a form of self-expression is incredible.
00:28:53
Speaker
Not only is it way more acceptable to have tattoos, but there are so many kinds of tattoos that you can get now. So old school, new school, neotraditional, realism, watercolor, geometric. There are so many styles.
00:29:06
Speaker
like You would need an infographic to really understand every single option you have. Yeah. do Do you have a favorite style off the top of your head?
00:29:16
Speaker
don't. That's really difficult. That is really difficult. Well, people also combine too. You can combine and like different styles, which is neat. I tend to go towards lots of black work and stippling. I love whenever do like that like the pointillism effect, like you would see in art, like Syrah.
00:29:34
Speaker
Like I love i love that. um But also, oh gosh, i I don't know. What about you? It's hard. Yeah, I i do love, um i you know, it probably boils down. I love old school traditional tattoos.
00:29:48
Speaker
I love the color. i love, you know, when I was just getting this hand tattoo, I asked for him for a traditional, I brought in, you know, what i wanted. He made his own modifications, which is cool. I've gone to him before. And i I asked for an old school traditional tattoo, but with more modern colors. So he added some teal, he added some gold,
00:30:08
Speaker
which I think is neat that you can kind of still honor old school traditional tattoos. But if you want to just pepper in some modern styles, you can totally do that too. Yeah. And I'm glad you brought up the that the fact that your artist created their own spin, because I think that's so important that when you think about the art that people do, this is this is something they're creating. They are artists.
00:30:32
Speaker
And you might go to someone and want a very specific design but if they have if they express themselves in a certain way, it's going to look like they're art. And I had um a great conversation with the artist I use for quite literally every single one of my tattoos, and she is very, very talented, but her work looks like her work. That's why I love it so much. So even if I went to her and had this harebrained idea, i know it's going to look like something she's done, and I love it and respect it so very much.
00:31:04
Speaker
It's not like you're going to someone that's printing something off of the internet, someone else's work and saying, here, please have a carbon copy of this on me. Some people will do it and that's okay. I think it draws a line with like, is that ethical? It's someone else's intellectual property, you know?
00:31:20
Speaker
And what is sort of the, yeah um I guess, public domain, like is getting a modern work of art or some sort of reference to a show or media? That's probably fine. But when it's someone's personal work that they spent hours drawing, is it then okay to try and get someone else's work from a different artist?
00:31:39
Speaker
and Yeah, that's a really, really good point. Because I've had some artists that are like, hey, this is really cool. This is a great launching point. Would you mind if I made some modifications? Or would you mind if I added some of my own personality into it? And I think what's important to remember, too, is that If you know an artist takes a different crack at what you brought in and you're not 100% thrilled, you don't have to say yes. you know like I've had that happen before where a tattoo artist, you know I sent it to her and she um added a couple of like celestial ah modifications to the top of the tattoo.
00:32:21
Speaker
And I was like, look, i I really like the direction you were heading, but I don't think that's me. And she was like, oh cool. No worries. Like, let's just cut that part out. Whatever. There was no she wasn't insulted. She was like, I was just getting carried away because I thought this was a really cool piece and blah, blah, blah.
00:32:36
Speaker
So like, it's OK to advocate for yourself. And just because a tattoo artist spends time drawing up something, you don't have to agree to put it on your body. A hundred percent. ah Although I will say it is a terrifying experience for me.
00:32:49
Speaker
Whenever I, the most recent one I went in and I had two questions and I was sweating. I was like, i love this so much, but I and do have to just clarify. I don't know because it's, they spent so much time doing this thing yeah to put on your body. And I just feel like um I want to respect that. But to your point, yeah, you gotta, it's going to go on you. You gotta to yeah let your feelings be known.
00:33:11
Speaker
And Especially if you put down a deposit and if things don't go your way and you don't feel comfortable doing it that day, don't feel pressured. No is a you know ah complete sentence no matter how you say it. So if it's not something you feel comfortable with, it's okay.
00:33:25
Speaker
You got respect their time and make the down payment. But and speaking of time... Just to close out this ah this section about styles, have you ever heard of the Japanese Irozomi tattoos?
00:33:37
Speaker
No, I have not. Okay. What's your longest session that you've ever done for a tattoo? Oh my gosh. I don't even know. Three hours, maybe two hours, three hours. Really? Wow. Okay.
00:33:50
Speaker
Um, yeah, these take years to complete. So session after session, after session of sitting is highly intricate, lots of like really dense color packing and blackout work and things like that. It's just, it's a lot. I think my longest session was six hours and it was because I had a huge, like a huge blackout session or a piece on like my legs. So it's like, yeah, it's,
00:34:13
Speaker
It's going to take time, you know, it's going hurt. Wow. year What a commitment years.
Creating Safe Tattoo Spaces
00:34:20
Speaker
Yeah. Interesting. Um, yeah, but okay. So let's segue a little bit. Cause we just talked about, you know, consent in terms of what you're putting on your body, ah you know, working with the tattoo artists. Let's talk about a little bit about, um, creating safe spaces within the tattoo industry.
00:34:38
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So there are more queer owned women owned shops that are popping up, creating safe spaces for people who might have traditionally felt unwelcome in the tattoo world previously.
00:34:51
Speaker
Because if we're being honest, tattoo shops, they used to have a reputation for being kind of intimidating, sometimes even toxic. and And that's changing a lot.
00:35:02
Speaker
Yeah, um for a long time. And even to this day, there are lot are a lot of like really hyper masculine gatekeeping kind of spaces. And tattoo parlors were known to be full of tough old school dudes who didn't take women or queer p folk seriously, and either as clients or artists.
00:35:20
Speaker
And it was a really intimidating space to be in. Yeah. and And, just like, let's also acknowledge that there were a lot of my old school mindsets of women getting tattoos and, and, you know, women getting tattoos for attention used to be very, you know, this mindset, very pervasive. It was not something that I think, you was helping the industry as a whole because of all these stereotypes, stigmas, preconceived ideas about a woman getting a tattoo.
00:35:56
Speaker
Yeah. So it it was viewed as if, you know, like you said, she was doing it for attention or it had to be dainty or it had to be, you know, a butterfly or a dolphin or a rose or like all these like really like classic things. But not that there's anything wrong with that. Like I have flowers and different stuff on my body that might be perceived more feminine, but you don't have to.
00:36:17
Speaker
It's, you know, everything is fair game. Yeah. And I think it's just, it's kind of just very similar to culture in general, how a lot of times, you know, if, if a male got inked, it was seemed as very bad-ass, a symbol of toughness, uh, like you said, hyper-masculine, but then you didn't have women going around getting full sleeves without being looked at a certain type of way.
00:36:42
Speaker
You know what I love about this change in the culture though, is the more that women get tattooed, and they get big tattoos. The more apparent it is that women sit way better for tattoos than men.
00:36:54
Speaker
like i My fitness tracker thought I fell asleep this last time, like whenever was getting tattooed. And then you see these videos. Okay, and maybe, look, maybe I'm making assumptions here. you know I only know my own experience, so let's just say that. But if you see the trends going around the internet, you see a lot of like, hey, yeah, actually.
00:37:13
Speaker
They're pretty tough. Yeah. man You know what's so wild to me? i also saw this thing on social media that um mostly men are going under anesthesia to get insane tattoo pieces done.
00:37:28
Speaker
Yeah. And one, one guy actually died because it wasn't, you, you know, these tattoo shops are not, they don't have like an anesthesiologist there. And it's like, but that just exactly to what you're saying that some people want to avoid the pain so much because for some it's very uncomfortable that they want to, they want the tattoo, but they don't want the pain that might come with it. So they're trying to avoid that in very dangerous ways. Yeah.
00:37:55
Speaker
I've talked to my artists about numbing cream. A lot of people will use numbing cream in shops nowadays. And they basically, it's just a topical anesthetic. And you put the cream on, you wrap it in saran wrap, and just like let it soak in. And then you get the tattoo. You don't feel it.
00:38:08
Speaker
What I've heard, though, is that you get a terrible rebound pain because you're getting your knee done. You don't want to feel it getting blasted. And you're like, OK, I can survive this because knee is traditionally a very painful spot to get it.
00:38:21
Speaker
And it's numb when you're doing it, but as soon as it's over, you really feel it. Yeah, I'd rather just get it done all in one fell swoop and just kind of...
00:38:32
Speaker
What's the most painful tattoo you've gotten? I think I've asked you this before, but I'm curious what's your ranking top two? Hand for sure. That was one of the, war yeah, because i don't know, I guess I had just have a lot of like bony parts and then it goes down to like my wrist bone. um Hand probably also ribs, I would say just, you know, places there's not a lot of meat there and it's just very, you feel the vibrations in your core, which is wild. But what about you?
00:39:02
Speaker
um I would have to say probably the ditch of my elbow. So like I have black in my elbow crease and then on the outside of the elbow. And what I've always heard is if it tickles or feels good, it's going to hurt like hell.
00:39:16
Speaker
And that is absolutely true because even if I'm doing, like I have a band around my thigh and Where on the outside where it's not that sensitive, it's like, oh, okay, it's fine. And then there certain spots, like a quarter size, I'm like, i'm I might die. This is intense.
00:39:32
Speaker
So I understand the the desire to avoid the pain. But... I don't know how safe it is. And <unk>re when we're talking about safety, i think also we should talk about the the psychological safety. So not only do we want it to be sanitary and safe and not all that painful, but also there is an atmosphere of safety that we should consider as well.
00:39:54
Speaker
Agreed. ah So yeah, these new or more inclusive shops, what would you say is different um when you're speaking about safety or, you know, women owned or whatever? what What's the difference between these traditional shops and now these new or more inclusive ones?
00:40:11
Speaker
I think that... Two things. One, consent. It's very important whenever consent is very forward and an artist's mind. They're not just wanting to make a buck. They know that it's and a permanent part of your body and they want to make sure that you're happy with what's going on.
00:40:26
Speaker
And also as they as they work on you, you can be in some like compromising positions whenever you know you're getting a certain area of your body tattooed. So that's one. But also...
00:40:37
Speaker
I don't know about your experience, but whenever like so the tattoo shop I go to is a very safe space. But there's lots of signs of like, be mindful of where you're looking. Because if you're just walking through a shop that has multiple spaces, you don't know ah what someone's getting done in what sort of area. So don't just be leering at people as they're, in a you know, of doing something very private.
00:40:58
Speaker
That's a really good point. I've never thought about that. Cause the tattoo shop that I go to now, the one that's closest to me, um they, everything's out in the open, but, ah and there are, it is predominantly men tattooing.
00:41:14
Speaker
The shop's called electric flamingo. They're phenomenal. The guy I go to, his name is Jamie. He always checks in with me throughout the tattoo. He's, oh, this is probably my third or fourth with him.
00:41:26
Speaker
He always is like, how are you doing? You know, do you want to take a break? um Besides consent when he's like, OK, are you ready to start? Are you sure? Do you want to get up and stretch, walk around?
00:41:36
Speaker
But then throughout the tattoo, you know, we'll just be chatting and then he'll be like, how are you doing? Is anything hurting? Do you want to get some water? Like just having that like touch base, I think, is very important to me. Uh, yeah. And it's not, you know, he's not a female tattoo artist. He's not, he's just like ah guy that cares about how people feel in his chair, which I think is, is very important.
00:41:58
Speaker
Yeah. and And honestly the same with, I'll go ahead and get give my artists a shout out. a Elisa Gonzalez. She is at bespoke tattoo gallery, very much the same. Um, she is very talented at knowing how to change between spots and not blast one spot too long. check in, make sure things are okay, ask for breaks.
00:42:17
Speaker
She has snacks and squeeze balls and like all the stuff. Like you just feel very comfortable. um Yeah. That is really, really important. But what I think is funny is that going around in the industry,
00:42:29
Speaker
are these quote unquote inclusive spaces that are actually by nature exclusive. So there'll be places that are like, no, we're not going to tattoo men, but they claim to be an inclusive space or they claim to be inclusive, but actually they treat their people very poorly when they come in. So it's,
00:42:45
Speaker
It's almost like a buzzword. So how do you determine what is actually a safe space, what is actually an inclusive space, and what is just marketing, which is really awful to think about.
00:42:57
Speaker
But that's such a great valid point. Yeah. I mean, we you could throw around the word inclusive all you want, but like you're saying, if you're excluding a group of people, is it really inclusive? Mm-hmm.
00:43:09
Speaker
And it's, it's true. I've, I've gone into tattoo shops before where I felt judged for what I've wanted. And it's just kind of garbage because like it is, it has been, you know, just some tattoo artists will look at you like, Oh, I really, you know, oh I'm going to do just this like little banger piece for you. But really I want to be doing this great artistic, you know, blah, blah, blah.
00:43:35
Speaker
But I think it's important that no matter who's walking through your door, you treat them the same. You know, like if you're going in for a consultation, make just make the person feel comfortable and talk about the tattoo idea.
00:43:49
Speaker
Nobody should feel pressure. Nobody should feel judged. It should just be a safe space in that regard. I think it's also good to find your artist via like word of mouth and reviews because if you do just a little bit of digging, you can find some really interesting things that people say about certain artists.
00:44:07
Speaker
I have a very close friend who I really admire her tattoos. She got a really impressive piece done, but everything I've heard about her experience and what it was And the person who did it, i would i would not do that myself. It was a very toxic place.
00:44:21
Speaker
They didn't care about her ability to handle it. It just turned out amazing. like Props to her. But it was it's really important to know who's doing this work and what the shop is like. Are they going to respect your privacy? Are they going to respect your pain tolerance? Things like that. Yeah.
00:44:39
Speaker
So, yeah, there is and there's also inappropriate behavior. I hate to say it. But um and in addition to like looking down on a requested tattoo, like you said, there are people who actually have been sexually harassed by male artists or female artists, any artist, but they're touching you for hours.
00:44:57
Speaker
So that happens. And sometimes maybe you think in your head like, oh, is this normal? Is this what they need to do? And, you know, if you're not feeling comfortable, you you really do have to speak up and say something. Yeah.
00:45:08
Speaker
Completely. i think that this is such a valid point. um I was talking to somebody the other day, actually, just like in a store, she had a tattoo. And obviously I asked, Oh, did you go local?
00:45:20
Speaker
She told me about this shop called Heartbreakers Tattoo Shop, which I actually got something done from them. And they are predominantly female tattoo artists. um But she was just this girl was telling me about her experience at this other shop, which she said she felt, um you know, that it was sexual assault, what was happening. And she left. She got up and left.
00:45:42
Speaker
And I think that's just a very good point that, you know, if you're going into a shop and if you're asking, does, is this normal or like, is this just trust your instinct? Trust your gut here.
00:45:54
Speaker
You know, nothing, even if you pay for the tattoo in advance, which really you shouldn't, but even if you put a deposit and you're still uncomfortable, just leave. It's, you know, it's not worth that experience. And really that experience shouldn't even be happening at the end of the day. you know, internet's going to find out.
00:46:13
Speaker
So yeah, Make sure you you you tell people because you know people are in a compromised position spending lots of money to get these things done. so um But I do think now with the rise of tattoo culture and people like us and others who are getting tattoos and are aware of like the do's and don'ts, I think it's so important to lift up and support these shops that are doing the right thing. They're making people feel safe. They have artists that they support. They are firing artists that who who are sexual predators or doing you know something wrong.
00:46:46
Speaker
um But I do think this this entire industry is really beautiful in the way that all of these artists are able to express themselves and then help us express ou ourselves. express Yeah, I definitely agree.
00:46:58
Speaker
and Yeah, I love just seeing the industry evolve as a whole. There's more diversity, more safe spaces,
Future Tattoo Plans
00:47:07
Speaker
more respect. It really is making tattooing better for everyone involved, which I think is very, very neat.
00:47:15
Speaker
Yeah. So next up for you, Marissa, what's the next tattoo? If you could get get anything today, what would it be? Um, you know what, I've been working my way up my arm, so I would probably do a shoulder piece and I think I have what I want.
00:47:30
Speaker
Um, so this is just like my first step in, i think I have what I want and then I find different iterations and then ah finally I work up the, you know, to go and book an appointment and then I'll go and get it done. But yeah, it's going to be a something um i want to work on a sleeve a little bit, I think, and see how that goes.
00:47:48
Speaker
Yeah. So what kind of sleeve are you aiming for? Is it more like patchwork? Are you going get filler? um Like, what's the stage for you? Yeah, I'm not I'm unsure there. i was talking to Jamie about it. And he said there's so many he gave me so many cool ideas. And he's obviously, you know, he's the type of guy you could just chat with about tattoos. He has so much experience and he's down to talk about whatever.
00:48:11
Speaker
so he's given me a couple ideas. I think I just want to do a shoulder piece first and then kind of like bring it all together. um Yeah. What about you? What's your next one, even though you just got one?
00:48:22
Speaker
I know. Well, I have my next appointment in May with Elisa. So yeah, honestly, I don't know. I think I'm going to start working on my arm. I have like wrist and partial hand tattoo and I ah just, it feels unfinished. I don't know. We haven't talked about tattoo regret and remorse, but every time, every time Marissa, I come home, I'm like, what did I do? Why did I do that?
00:48:46
Speaker
Same. I don't know what that It's interesting. My sister was the one I like, she'll check in with me the day after my tattoo. She's like, how are you feeling?
00:48:57
Speaker
You regret it? And then it's just fun because she's like, but it's it's really cool. It's really awesome. Remember, this is exactly what you wanted. so helpful to hear that. Yeah.
00:49:09
Speaker
Oh my gosh. I remember one time I got this huge piece done. One of my first ones, I came home and my partner at the time saw it and said nothing. And I'm like, i' got Oh, no. I'm going to burn down the house, I guess. i just Well, this was a mistake.
00:49:25
Speaker
Isn't that interesting, though? Like, if you think about it, that validation that you might need to convince yourself it was a good idea. But really deep down, you you made the decision to go and like you did this to yourself. So yeah.
00:49:38
Speaker
Well, it's like any change. like You can be so happy that you did the thing and you spent all that time researching and planning. But once you get the final result, sometimes it's nice to have some validation. 100%. Yeah. pretty sure ah Yeah. Just give a thumbs up or thumbs down. like That's it. you know Just please. Please.
00:50:00
Speaker
Say it's nice. na Say I did good. Say I did good. Yeah.
00:50:06
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's fair. ah But yeah, I just, this has been a really fun chat. Obviously, we could talk about tattoos all day and just probably share Pinterest boards or our idea boards and go back and forth.
Tattoo Industry and Community Engagement
00:50:20
Speaker
um But yeah, remember tattoos, tattoos aren't even forever anymore. Tattoos. I had a friend, she like got rid of her whole sleeve and she said it was very painful, but it it's gone. And I mean, look at Pete Davidson. He's like, he had to memory yeah so many tattoos. So just when you're thinking about it and I know that was a big, my parents used to tell me tattoos are forever. Tattoos are forever. They're really not.
00:50:46
Speaker
And, um, not saying they're easy or inexpensive to get rid of, but it, you know, that shouldn't be something that's factoring into whether or not you get a tattoo. Right. And, and look, these are in their essence, small businesses all over the United States, these tattoo galleries and shops, and even like the people who are removing Ted's tattoos, like the med spas and all of these things, like it's a ah huge part of our culture. And I think there shouldn't be the stigma. I'm so happy to see it grow.
00:51:15
Speaker
And, um, Yeah. I just want to hear about people's tattoos, really. So if you have a tattoo and you want to share the story, I feel like you should ah leave a comment, write in, do something, because I want to know.
00:51:28
Speaker
Let's talk about We didn't even get to talk about this, but it's totally fine. I'm going to have my sister leave a Comment because we travel to get tattoos together. Like when we travel together, we meet up in different cities, we find a tattoo shop and we get i have a bunch that's like, one's in Oregon or in Austin, Texas, or so traveling to obviously is such a cool idea to get a tattoo where you go and My big idea is to, I think I shared this with you before, but I do want to do travel tattoos.
00:51:57
Speaker
And I almost did an Edinburgh a couple of years ago, but I want to get local cryptid for every spot that I visit. and I'm like, can't wait. You have to. to It's going to happen. One of these days. Consider me pre-validating. I appreciate it.
00:52:15
Speaker
Yes. all right, everyone. Until next time, stay inked and stay curious.