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Neon Odyssey - Ep 103
1 Playsin 35 minutes
What happens when you mash up D&D, Cowboy Bebop, and enough neon to light up a city block? James talks for 50 nearly uninterrupted minutes about like 4 different games, that's what happens.
Music is "Fork and Spoon" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:05
Speaker
So. lot or We're in it now. This is a new. What are we in? The new sode. We're a new sode today. Currently.
00:00:15
Speaker
A year our Lord 2026. A new sode. new sody um yeah new new sody pop just for you o um ah i am james i don't i guess we say that up top yeah my name's allison hello yeah awesome uh for i get if if anyone's tuning in on what is this episode 103 at this point if you haven lookeded up on that by now you're just picking up on this episode for some reason because the game sounds cool i still don't know what the fuck we're talking about right it's a cu oh damn
00:00:51
Speaker
No. ah I'm trying to save the swearing to the end. trying best i I probably didn't even do it last episode. I forgot that. i hi you You are
James' Interests: D&D and Sci-Fi
00:01:05
Speaker
all good. Well, i i have I have news for everybody who's just tuning in to episode 103. If you haven't listened to me talk for a single second, you might not know this, but otherwise I'm sure you do.
00:01:18
Speaker
Two of my favorite things on Earth.
00:01:24
Speaker
so actually bizarrely i i don't think i guess i have no way of knowing where i'm going to go in the next 15 to 45 minutes so but i might be wrong but i don't think we're going to talk much about sonic this episode that that is one of my favorite things but it is not the two that i'm talking about today breakfast burritos i now you got me swearing that like livesrito dude I hate you know me so well that you can keep listing things very accurately and probably still won't cover what I'm goingnna talk about. damn What are the two my favorite things?
00:02:04
Speaker
So two two of my top favorite things. I don't know. I wouldn't I haven't ranked them in any particular order. Number one. D&D Dungeons and Dragons. Yes. Classic. every You know it. You love it. Pen and paper. We're talking about a pen and paper joint today. oh yeah uh other thing i love is space and sci-fi and bright neon sci-fi that just goes crazy balls to the wall like magic in space fighters with laser blasters and magic powers and stuff it's brilliant about to yell about starstruck odyssey
00:02:40
Speaker
Uh, no. However, that is ah I mean, it's right up that alley, right? So I have a little bit more. so Sorry, I'm I'm spaghetti. My brain is twisting a little bit, kind of trying to keep track of a couple of things here. No, you're you're all good because I do want to talk about all that will come up because what we're talking about today, what I'm talking about today and what you're about to be talking about today.
Introduction to Neon Odyssey
00:03:04
Speaker
is Neon Odyssey, which I'm pretty sure I've talked your ear off about before. So this might not be a new thing to you that I'm talking about, but I'm i'm still vibrating with anticipation from it.
00:03:17
Speaker
um Neon Odyssey is a let me see. I actually have their website pulled up here. It is to to quote them directly. It is a 1400 plus page space opera trilogy for D&D. We're talking about a source book for the for D&D. So it's and we're also kind of stretching, i guess, the definition of what a game is on its own, because this is a fully standalone thing. But it uses, you know, D&D core rules as the the base of it. Right.
00:03:51
Speaker
um Did blast off to the stars, explore the galaxy and chart your own cosmic destiny? Sure, whatever. That's their copy. I'm going to talk way more about it. um And when I say they, this is the other interesting thing. So this is a full like add on setting module list of new rules like species to add to dungeons and dragons new place like like whole full name setting with more proper nouns than you could ever hope to remember in your life whole new vibe the the art style is completely different it is all this sort of
00:04:24
Speaker
Cowboy Bebop, Star Wars, anime, adventure pulp style, like sci-fi series of source books. They have the what is it? the The Outrunners Handbook, the Cosmic Codex, and then the Hyperdrive expansion, which is ah would very fun as well. I'll get into in a little bit.
00:04:43
Speaker
um This is just a a crazy sci-fi, really overhaul or conversion or something of the sort for what is very much not that dungeons and dragons. If you'll recall, d and d is more of a like Lord of the Rings fantasy kind of thing. So I wanted to talk a little bit about that today and kind of what, what that means and and and my thoughts on it. And i I would love to get your thoughts too.
00:05:12
Speaker
ah but sorry i never circle back around to the other interesting thing it is created by and published by and all handled by the kickstarter is run by and all that uh legends of avantress uh who i knew just about nothing about before i started to see ads and people talking about this seeing the scuttlebutt online i know them they yeah quite a bit actually i watch it i watch some of their podcasts i i love their animations dude their animations are all over the if you watch short form short form content you've probably and you're a dnd nerd i feel like you probably have to have both of those things if you like video games or games in general and which if you're listening to this podcast if you watch short form content you probably have seen some of their animated shorts they're really really funny um exactly i love it said and i didn't realize favorite
00:06:08
Speaker
off bits But yeah, it's one of those things where, like you said, almost certainly you have seen one of their shorts without even knowing it. They're just prolific. um And I had no idea, truly.
Legends of Avantress: From Friends to Production Company
00:06:20
Speaker
um But that is that is another reason I wanted to to get your eyes and your ears on this, because you'll be able to provide a little bit more of that background to it that I'm not too familiar with. um But what it is, the so it I'm all I'm cheating in a couple different ways right now, because not only is it a is it a supplement to D&D or a conversion more than it is technically its own standalone game is also not released yet. It does not technically exist in its full form, the The Kickstarter, I believe, is over, but you can pre-order it. You can like get in line to pick the thing up. But there is a full-on playtest of it. There is a like sample kind of mission ah module for it. There are sample like characters that they've genned up that you can ah kind of take a swing with.
00:07:10
Speaker
so it so it is in a playable form you can definitely go check it out right now and i highly recommend if you've got a group that is interested in dnd got a group that's interested in sci-fi um if you've got a group who if if any of them watched the starlight brigade music video on repeat the day it came out just constantly for eight hours straight like i did um you will have a wonderful time with this in fact This game does also have its own music video that was released as a celebration of the the Kickstarter kicking off. It's very, very cool.
00:07:43
Speaker
ah But there are a couple of things I wanted to talk about as far as where this came from, because this to me sits at an interesting intersection of a couple of different things, some of which are actually which feed into it, some of which don't. I just found some interesting similarities.
00:08:01
Speaker
um First thing I wanted to start with is Legends of Adventurous. And I wanted to get your input on this. To my knowledge, this is essentially one of those D&D live play ah groups, the situations that you you hear about, with like with a critical role or an adventure zone or something like that, where it was...
00:08:27
Speaker
buddies play in D&D and then as it grew and grew and they have the these talented people who already had strengths in other areas that lent it to becoming more of a ah something they could do publicly and then something they could put more effort into making it a production and things like that and it grew over the course of time correct me if I'm wrong on that but I'm looking at the kind of background section of the Legends of Avengers wiki and it's also kind of suggesting that where they're talking about how they kind of formed i have I'm going to be 100% honest. I've only really watched like four or five episodes. Not like too terribly much. Enough to like really get a kind of hang on the show and the personalities, but not enough to like really know the like long...
00:09:12
Speaker
ah growth of of their their channel, but that is the the impression that I've always gotten. They just, ah even their about us on their own page says seven best friends who play a lot of D&D together in person tell stories in an epic homebrew worlds. with tons of laughs and heavy role play and wacky voices. I do like that they voice act everyone. It's very fun. um But yeah, it does just seem like it's a bunch of friends who have all like kind of found their niche within um this larger structure as it's grown. Like even their Wikipedia about us has a picture of the main cast and it shows each of their like roles of like
00:09:53
Speaker
Everyone who you see on screen has a role within the greater company of advanced of adventurous entertainment, um which is kind of neat. Um,
00:10:05
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm looking at the more in-depth backgrounds and yeah, it's basically the, the, the story of people playing it for fun between their day jobs there. They move to online because people are moving away and then they start streaming to Facebook and then, Oh, we can do this for real people meeting at work, spinning things up and, and growing very organically, which I think is very, very cool. Seeing yeah this, this passion turned into something that they could do for a living is incredible.
00:10:30
Speaker
Um, yeah, God, I wish that were me, but I have yeah neither the organizational capability or the, I guess, just strength of will to to make anything like that happen. and So I'll i'll continue ah admiring from afar. But we'd love to see a story like that. and That's that's their history, right? they They take I was looking back through some of the like campaigns they've run. They started with their completely homebrew one. And then it looks like as they've grown and and gotten into more stuff.
00:10:57
Speaker
They have they've done other shorter campaigns and things like that in official modules like Raven Loft and Saltmarsh. It looks like Ghost of Saltmarsh. They had a little bit in there.
00:11:08
Speaker
And the origin of Neon Odyssey, as far as I can see here, comes from Spelljammer. And that is the other thing I wanted to talk about that I know serves as a direct inspiration for this. If I haven't talked your ear off about Spelljammer, boy, howdy, are you in for just a lot of me saying the same thing over and over for 15 minutes and then saying, isn't that so cool?
00:11:34
Speaker
um i don't believe I have been talked to about a Spelljammer. So Spelljammer dates all the way back to the second edition of D&D.
00:11:46
Speaker
um Wow. In fact, sorry, i this is the reason I should have taken notes. Again, we're we're doing the last couple of episodes kind of loosey goosey here. um It was created by I remember reading. So I I'm currently running a Spelljammer campaign in the Spelljammer setting because it's been re-released for the newest or newer edition of D&D 5e. It's got a whole series of modules.
00:12:12
Speaker
And when it was first released, it was basically a challenge given to what Google is telling me is Jeff Grubb. um it was the the person who was tasked with this. I know there was there was a team of people who worked on this.
00:12:27
Speaker
who were given this this thought of like, hey, find a way to tie these other D&D settings together. Find a way to make this whole thing cohesive, but also be creative. And it became this kind of back of the napkin, um everyone kind of sitting around with someone having an idea then them all designing it and building on it to where it was like, oh okay, what if all the different settings in D&D that we've published so far, all these different unrelated things worlds that we need to connect together what if they were planets because sci-fi was taking off around this again mean i'm seeing here 1989 is kind of when this all came around so sci-fi was starting to really like kick off in a ah new way um or or people people were obsessed with it at the time
00:13:15
Speaker
um And so they they took that and put, you know, this fantasy magic spin on it. What if these were all different planets, but they adhered to these magical rules instead of the physics rules that we we've been relying on?
00:13:27
Speaker
What if they were all the these planets that you could sail in in sailing ships like you might ride on in D&D, but they went up into the sky and into space and and disappeared through this rainbow colored cosmic river that connects all these planets. and things like that. What if, what if wizards could cast spells across space and time to, to destroy enemy beholder ships and things like that, ah which I think is also just a really fun combination of when, when sci-fi and fantasy meet like that, especially in the eighties and nineties and having all just dripping with, with character and and, and a sauce that I think is lost nowadays in a lot of ways.
00:14:10
Speaker
um It's a it leads to a very, very unique, absolutely chaotic and what very creative ah setting and and set of rules and and stories that come out of that. It's a it's a buck wild time. If you sit down and read through the original source of books for that second edition of D&D module Spelljammer, I believe so.
00:14:34
Speaker
Everything I've said here, if it's entirely wrong, you will know because I do know the the the core book of Spelljammer does start with a foreword about, hey, here's who I am and here's why we made this. So I i may have just be talking out my hat here. I could i have no idea.
00:14:49
Speaker
ah But... That is how I understand that. And that is so that's been re-released right at
Evolution of Neon Odyssey
00:14:57
Speaker
this point. Spelljammers out for D&D 5e because Wizards of the Coast says, oh, everyone's nostalgic for this. We'll bring it back. We'll do the same like three book release kind of thing where we have a core book. We have an extended like monster manual kind of thing. And then we have a campaign for right Like we have ah a module for the the story if people want to get started that way.
00:15:17
Speaker
um So that's kind of the the theme here, which is why I think it's really interesting in Neon Odyssey. You have the exact same format, something that could be published in one thick, chunky book is instead broken up to where you can make it a little bit more modular and and kind of have it that way, kind of in keeping with that same ah format.
00:15:36
Speaker
I think ah i just think that's a neat way to publish that. um That's really nice. for Yeah, exactly. but Both kind of is part of tradition of how this has been rolled out in the past. And also, i think it makes business sense as well. I think if people want to buy one, they can. And if they want to buy all of them, you can have them available. You can make making them their own discrete things means people are buying three books instead of one kind of works out for everybody in some sense or another. I know people will argue with that. There were a lot of people when the newer version of Spelljammer released were kind of upset at that tactic.
00:16:12
Speaker
I don't care necessarily. i I think it's perfectly fine, but that that's a whole other discussion because we're not talking about spell jammer today. We're not doing it. I'll save that for another episode. ah um So yeah, tune in two episodes from now when I talk about spell jammer and completely correct myself on all the dumb stuff I just said, ignore it, throw it as cast it aside.
00:16:37
Speaker
yeah, The OK, Neon Odyssey, as we know, it started as a Spelljammer campaign. That's where I was going with this. It is fully connected to Spelljammer. It was the Legends of Adventurous people starting a campaign that took place in a fairly modified version of Spelljammer.
00:16:58
Speaker
um And as I kept going, I know that if I. From what I'm seeing here as well, they were running into kind of some difficulties as like creatively limiting as they're existing in this world. They have oh all these things that are ah Wizards of the Coast D&D brand licensed things that we maybe don't want to hang a hat on necessarily. And then other I believe there's some things with scheduling conflicts and just the the way that they set things up wasn't working for the kind of story they wanted to tell there was kind of ah a perfect storm of reasons to come together they had the original campaign name for what they were doing was called uh stardust rhapsody i believe is is what i'm seeing here
00:17:44
Speaker
ah Yes, Stardust Rhapsody, which is also the name of the galaxy that they're in. um At a certain point, they said, hey, we get it. You guys are probably feeling it.
00:17:54
Speaker
We're going to give it a little bit of a soft reboot. We're going to tweak it a little bit. And I'm actually really interested to go back. Full disclosure, I have not listened to or watched this campaign. And I really, in reading about it, am fascinated by how they did this.
00:18:10
Speaker
Apparently there was a moment where they said, hey, in this stream of this of this game of this campaign that we're doing, we are going to reboot some things. We're going to twist some things up. And something happened in there that helps tie these things together, but start over at the same time and splits the this campaign now into two things. The first section being called Stardust Rhapsody Overture, the new one being called Stardust Rhapsody Anthem.
00:18:37
Speaker
Anthem is where it becomes wholesale new. They eject all of this licensed stuff. They filled in their own information. they're They're building this whole new world that is, i guess, more canon to them and less canon to the stuff that other people own. It sounds like a headache.
00:18:58
Speaker
Yeah. But it's created exactly. But it it created something beautiful in the process, because as they kept playing through this game and as they grew more and more and finally are they're telling the story that they want to tell and living in this world they want to live in.
00:19:12
Speaker
They say this rocks this actually this rip so hard. We we should grow this out into something bigger, something that everyone can enjoy themselves.
00:19:23
Speaker
um At this point, so Legends of Adventurous has published, they have ah their their publishing arm at this point, Adventurous Entertainment. They've published a couple of other modules and source books and things like that at this point.
00:19:37
Speaker
um So this is this is not their first rodeo, but I believe they're still a little bit newer in the game as far as publishing ah TTRPG content goes.
00:19:48
Speaker
Yeah. um they they're they're building this behind the scenes and then eventually they launch this on Kickstarter. This whole world, this this galaxy Stardust Rhapsody that they've been playing in yeah is now part of the source material for everybody. And they have all these beautiful illustrations of characters that the characters that they've been playing in this game are now the figureheads for this marketing and and music video and things that you can you can get invested in yourself. and I think that's very cool to see as well. Again, growing this thing out of passion and creativity and turning into a thing that that gives everyone so much more joy and a springboard for everybody else who enjoys that to to build their own thing out of it as well.
00:20:34
Speaker
That's so cool. Yeah, it's it's very neat. um I really I haven't talked much about the actual mechanics of the dang thing, which is ah maybe important as
Game Mechanics and Features of Neon Odyssey
00:20:46
Speaker
well. um But there are there are rules in this thing to completely transfer something into like a sci fi setting in a way that makes sense.
00:20:54
Speaker
There are rules for space combat and actual full on starships and even like Gundam Mets that you can pilot and they have these these crazy attacks and new effects and and rules and and and setting systems, new ah species that are completely informed by the way this works.
00:21:16
Speaker
magical sci-fi galaxy works and the way that it's it's filled in with all these various multicolored multi original forms of life they have pixies and and fairies and things that are are of are this arcade world they there's a very heavy video game inspiration into this too this is a full where spell jammer is more fantasy meets sci-fi this is a full-blooded nerd sci-fi arcade crazy just I mean, neon, it's right there in the title. It it leans fully into that side of the ah the inspiration, but in a wonderful, just chaotic way.
00:21:56
Speaker
um The rules I saw in here, I also noticed... not only strongly resemble the i'm I'm thinking specifically about the like starship combat you're piloting vehicles and the the way those work the the way there are different classes of maneuverability and in something that's pretty unique for D&D you have to worry about the speed of turning and facing and pulling off maneuvers to where you can kind of gain better ground or or get yourself into a better there are firing like weapon angles that there are some weapons that only fire forwards or to the sides or backwards shields you have to kind of divert to the front unless you have specialty systems and things like that it gets a little bit more granular
00:22:42
Speaker
which is something that I realized not only comes from Spelljammer, but also it really rings similar to, you've mentioned it before, Dimension 20, Starstruck Odyssey, yeah uses a a similar thing, actually, a Star Wars conversion of D&D, I believe called SW5E, that does a very similar thing. It takes these D&D rules and turns it, and that was into a fully sci-fi, kind or a fully Star Wars kind of thing, like fully branded,
00:23:12
Speaker
ah referred to as in star Wars terminology that the dimension 20 crew then took and kind of extrapolated back out to be part of the starstruck universe.
00:23:23
Speaker
And the, the, the mirror image, you hold up a mirror to neon odyssey and it looks like the starstruck campaign and it boggles my mind and it informs me as well and i i think it's very informative that this is something that people love to see and is is being met in very unique ways and i i think it's very very cool to see that and how these divergent paths still meet at this incredible place You also, every time you said Star, Stardust Rhapsody, my brain kept autogening Starstruck Odyssey.
00:24:02
Speaker
Exactly. because They're basically the same words. Like, say like yeah they rhyme at or like start... ah Rhapsody Odyssey rhyme and then Starstruck and Stardust both have the same prefix of star. Like that's there. There is very heavy similarity there in the naming. And the it is cool to see these like three.
00:24:25
Speaker
Let's call it convergent evolution. Right, exactly, because I don't think that SW5E really had all that much bearing on this. You can pretty much draw a straight line from Spelljammer to this. But yes, still it is. It is just neat to see.
00:24:40
Speaker
like ah Yeah, exactly. Convergent evolution all kind of come together. And you were talking about the maneuvers and stuff like that. It did ring the like, oh, I remember that ah section of Starstruck Odyssey where they're like flying the like giant ship through the chasm and they have all these like different rules for maneuvering and how to like turn and like move your ship through this like area.
00:25:01
Speaker
was a very cool battle. The minis were incredible. I really like that if you and not to plug something completely separate from what we're talking about. But no you absolutely Absolutely should go check out Starstroke Odyssey right now. This sounds interesting to you. Go watch that. It's very fun. um but And Stardust Rhapsody. All of it. It's all incredible. yeah Yes. um But ah it it just it made me think of also like Sea of Thieves where you have to like, oh, well, these these cannons don't turn. So I have to like maneuver my ship and I have to like be going at it.
00:25:35
Speaker
I love sailing. It's one of my favorite things. I love Sea of Thieves for sailing. um Not to tie your your precious presses pen and paper back to 30, dirty, dirty, disgusting video games. But terrible. I know i've never touched a video game. I can never.
00:25:51
Speaker
The video James speaks sacrilege. um At this moment, he realized he had steam open in the background on his computer for the last few hours. Yeah, steam is constantly open. I've never closed it. yeah um But. ah I love sailing. I love those mechanics. I find them very fun. And I feel like that in a D and D world would be so interesting when the mechanics are built really well around said, said tasking. It seems like scratches the same kind of itch in my brain. And it does make me really want to check this out. Not just for that, but for many of the things that you talked about, but that is like one of the things that stuck out where was like, Ooh, that actually sounds really fun. I love driving a a big ship.
00:26:34
Speaker
yeah, Also, I've been playing Minecraft, uh, uh, the create aeronautics. I sent James. Exactly. That's another reason I knew you were going to be interested in that part of it because this is very much. Yeah. I love getting to fly my little airships, a little airship or a little spaceship, but designed and molded around actual, uh, like ship ship, like a sailing ship is such a neat concept.
00:27:02
Speaker
Um, I don't know if that's necessarily what this one's doing. ah You did say sailing, but I don't know if if you meant that kind of more metaphorically and less literally. ah so I think I if I'm remembering you talk about me mentioning that correctly, that's more of a spell jammer thing because you were literally sailing on ships in that context. And then this, Neon Odyssey, takes that and says, screw it, we're going full fighter pilot. Full sci-fi. Yeah, these are full sci-fi, like X-wings. There are lasers and stuff. All of this sounds want...
00:27:41
Speaker
Getting to fly little ships and getting to make little planes and getting to move around in this space sounds like ah such a blast. I love having control over like a little a ship.
00:27:53
Speaker
Like being a captain ah of a ship is so fun getting to like. helm and choose direction and coursing and it's it is a blast i really love those systems that surround that task and i would love to check out this uh tt rpg to explore more of that i feel like that would be an absolute riot Absolutely. Yeah. the The time I spent with this kind of kickstart, the the sample play test that you can engage with was was already an absolute blast.
00:28:26
Speaker
I cannot wait to see what the full thing looks like. They give an outline of what exactly is going to be in there as you go more and more down the Kickstarter. I won't list it all here because I think it's worth going and checking out for yourself. Get get hyped about everything. It's one of the tightest looking vibes I've ever seen for a Kickstarter in in my life.
00:28:45
Speaker
Um, and not, not to sell something entirely vibes based, but that's what we're here for. Right. Cause I guess that's kind of what I want to talk about too, with this convergent evolution and everything like that.
00:28:56
Speaker
It's really hitting on what people want out of this kind of a game and out of this kind of media and things like that. Because exactly like you talked about with Starstruck Odyssey, where they're doing all these maneuvers and things like that. Exactly when you watch Star Wars and you watch the Millennium Falcon go sideways as it as it escapes from these different Star Destroyers and aliens and things like that.
00:29:17
Speaker
People want some sense of the scope of these incredible space vehicles and you're in your own little home base and and vehicle making your way. and and fighting, scrapping for your life in this void, this galaxy that that wants to kill you, making your way. I mean, the Mandalorian was a ah cultural touchstone for yeah how many ah years uninterrupted? Yeah, they just made that movie about it, actually.
00:29:45
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. And that that's part of the appeal of, of this type of this genre is this, you, you get to imagine these, these crazy new places and things and exist in it and, and have these new vehicles that are, that are moving and,
00:30:03
Speaker
just just things moving and acting and reacting and having rules that you could never imagine and and what that looks like as you as you get more familiar with it i mean how star wars has had however many dedicated rabid mind just completely altered fans since it first released for that exact reason that, that it goes back to all of that. That's just, that's what people are looking for that experience. They want that high octane. They want people and and the stories they tell, but then also the, the fantastical vehicle. When I say vehicles, I don't just mean the vehicles, but also the vehicles, but the storytelling vehicles, the the the device, the plot devices and the the situations and the the trappings of this incredible, just awesome fun that, that gets you there.
00:30:53
Speaker
yeah it It really it exists here like it does in no other genre. And these rules capture that in in such a raw way. I absolutely adore it. I love using this as also as a, ah not to steal your word, but a a vehicle to tie all of their adventures and make all of these worlds collide in their own way. when you corrected yourself earlier from, your were you said...
00:31:20
Speaker
giving you this world, this galaxy. I was like, yeah, no, dude, like really, they're giving you an entire galaxy to explore of worlds upon worlds where you get to like a slot in your own thing alongside some of these things that you watched and then also get to explore some of the places that they've checked out and still have the same systems like alongside. It's it's it's cool to use that as ah as a method to like tie everything together. It's so cool.
00:31:46
Speaker
Exactly. I, oh, I cannot wait. Probably genuinely the next episode that I'm taking the lead on will be Spelljammers so that I can get my thoughts out more coherently about that. I absolutely love You can almost think of this as a part one, honestly.
00:32:03
Speaker
Because it's it's all tied to together They all meld together in my brain. I'm i'm holding my head right now in my my hands trying to, like, just contain my emotions without them escaping through my eyeballs.
00:32:16
Speaker
i I'm maybe not the most coherent I've ever been as I talk about this, and that's fine. And if anyone kind of came on here expecting coherence, I don't know what you're doing here because we're yeah we're how many years, how many episodes in, and that's that's not our strength. Our strength is just no getting getting riled up about stuff like this. This is some of the most riled up I've been in a long time. Yeah, dude. i don't Usually I'm the one to go like buck wild, and I've heard you go like... I've heard you go feral on an episode before. It's been a little second, though. Usually you're a lot more of the like calm put together and I'm the like crazy one. I'm excited to hear you get so like so lost in it and so excited about it that you're like,
00:33:02
Speaker
Not necessarily stumbling over yourself because you're you're you're putting together. You're very eloquent in what you're explaining. But like I can just hear the speed and the excitement in your voice. It's it's very exciting. i like to think of it as I'm very expertly flying around in circles. Yes.
00:33:20
Speaker
it is it is very cool to see i'm very excited to to check it out and to hear more about this topic from you i'm excited for the next episode i hope everyone is willing to wait the the week or two to get back but probably looking more like four i think we're we're probably looking at a bi-weekly release schedule for the near future just because we're adults with lives lives yeah we've got a lot going on um It is what it is. We'll we'll see what we can do. ah yeah But but yes, absolutely. um One more thing I wanted to cover. Sorry, I know I'm just I will not shut up. so
00:33:55
Speaker
Exactly. The other thing I wanted to address, the other big thing I wanted to hit is I saw it come up a little bit in the conversation when this Kickstarter released, when people were looking about it, chattering about it online, stuff like that.
Popularity of D&D Adaptations
00:34:08
Speaker
And this conversation comes up in a lot of different places, in a lot of different ways, for a lot of different reasons. And I wanted to get your take on this as well, because I'm i'm a little bit of two minds about this topic.
00:34:25
Speaker
There are games that do this. Just as well, if not arguably better, they capture this essence of what people want from a Star Wars or Cowboy Bebop style game, a TTRPG that you can play with your friends like this. There are other games. I mean, Beam Saber immediately comes to mind. Scum and Villainy, things like that. These I mean, I've talked about Scum and Villainy before. yeah um The the way that other games can capture this.
00:34:56
Speaker
is arguably more effective than the sort of engine that the core rules of D&D provide. So there is always, I saw it here, and you're um you're going to see this until the end of time.
00:35:07
Speaker
There's always a group of people that that loudly and honestly correctly assert that you don't need D&D to do all of these things. Stop doing all of them in D&D. Why are the D&D-ified versions of this the ones that get all of the attention?
00:35:27
Speaker
easy And i i think that's a foolish question because it is the most popular pen and paper game on the planet. that's d and d I don't want to learn a new thing. Exactly. And I think it's less reading and quicker to get to the table. I already know how to play D&D. I don't need to read it. And and oh mean I also need to read ah an entire book. But like.
00:35:49
Speaker
it's It's a little bit more familiar. Things go a little bit faster. i think the The friction is less. I think that that is really the answer to that question is friction. That's absolutely true. Yeah.
00:36:01
Speaker
It makes me a little sad because I feel like there are some some incredible games out there that people will not give a chance because there's just a a modicum more friction.
00:36:13
Speaker
Right. And I that's why I'm of two minds about this, because I used to be staunchly on that other side. I did very much used to be on the why are we D&Ding all of this? We could make other games that are just as good at this, if not better, that are are different. And it's it's I'm I'm finding myself more in the middle on this and more tending towards what you just voiced as well, because there are.
00:36:41
Speaker
There's a lower barrier to entry, certainly when you convert something versus when you learn something wholesale on the flip side of that other game, the more simplified game, not simplified necessarily, but the less crunchy games like your beam saber and things like that.
00:36:59
Speaker
you can pick them up very easily. the The amount of time that it would take is is not so much that you're, it's not as deep as D&D. There's not so much that you're really going to lose as much time as you would if you were, say, learning D&D or Pathfinder or Lancer or something like that for the first time.
00:37:16
Speaker
But on the other other flip side, that is still more cognitive load. It's still more that you have to balance when you have this muscle memory of, okay well, I know what advantage is. I know what an attack role is and a damage role is in this context. I know like I understand that in this circumstance, I'm going to.
00:37:36
Speaker
like act or role play this way or this mechanic is going to come into play i can build on that base so it's it's not only the the amount of time investment it's the amount of mental investment and then the other other other flip side of that is oh these other things are more simplified so you don't need as much of ah a mental investment in that either And so it it really comes down to your table and your preference and what everyone can do. Because again, at the end of the day, just like we just talked about with the with the release schedule thing, we're adults with jobs. We do this for fun. We play D&D for fun. And to ask a bunch of people who have very limited time on weekends or evenings to say, hey,
00:38:22
Speaker
read this whole book or at least this section of this book and internalize that and we'll we'll talk more about that you don't want to give people homework you want to have fun playing a game with your friends even if that game maybe wasn't originally the best base for this you can clearly make it work like these folks at legends of adventurers can clearly take that and build something that's still very incredible out of it o Yeah, honestly, i think you said it so incredibly well, but it is just it is a lot of work. It is very nice to have that kind of summed up for you and to already know, go into it, knowing some of the details and then also being able to.
00:39:11
Speaker
Just skip the skip to the skip to the good parts. Exactly. Yeah. let Let me get into the fun a little bit faster instead of having to give me and my four best friends a lot of homework on top of regular work.
00:39:29
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's a if I made if I may draw a parallel, ah it is a little to to sully myself to to dirty my gloves with the the stink of video games once more. um it It is a little bit like, hey, why are so many people making their or why are so many people using Unreal Engine when you can make your own engine and it's it's perfectly fine for your uses and it doesn't have all this overhead? Well, people know how to use Unreal Engine and it's very popular for a very important reason. But it's.
00:40:04
Speaker
You're right. It's not always the best choice. There are pros and cons to both approaches. And there's there's things that you get out of making your own engine, just like there's things you get out of making your own system or starting a new system with your table that you don't get out of the the big already established one that you're building on. But there's other things that you get with that. there's ah I mean, there's a huge community around how to approach D&D and all of its...
00:40:30
Speaker
all of the facets of it and all the things that might come up during your time the table that don't exist if you're using all these other systems but these other systems flex your creativity and and fit the vibe maybe more than they would if you were doing the the big already established thing it's just there's no right answer but yeah you do need to understand each of them as you are getting into them That is actually one of the things ah to also tie this to to the dirty, dirty video game. um I've been playing a bunch of mod packs recently. I love Minecraft. I've been playing a ton of modded Minecraft.
00:41:07
Speaker
um I've been playing a bunch of mod packs that are kind of like off the beaten trail. They're not the necessarily the top most popular ones. You don't have the Google resource, which is very... very useful when you kind of start getting off that beaten path you start searching things and you're not getting results back or getting results back they just don't have anything to do with what you're doing I feel like the same thing would start happening not that I play a lot of pen and paper I want to I just don't have i don't have a group for it uh you just don't have the support and I would imagine that that would also fall into the same with uh some of those less less traveled
00:41:45
Speaker
ah systems for, for a pen and paper games that you wouldn't have the same resources to be able to like reach out. If you have a question about like, Oh, well, how does this actually work?
00:41:58
Speaker
I don't, I'm picking up a new thing. So none of my friends know this. I can Google it, but I might not even be able to get an answer to the thing that I need. I can probably post on Reddit, but I need some other nerd who has played this game, who is looking at this Reddit server right now.
00:42:13
Speaker
or within the next couple weeks before I have to run this thing, I feel like that could lead to, to some, some troublesome periods that make running an actual campaign a little bit more, more of a challenge. Yeah, and it's it's a you're very correct in a lot of ways. Of course, it's going to be a little bit dissimilar because yeah a ah a pen and paper like an RPG around the table isn't going to have the same like mechanical restrictions. You're not playing a video game. So you can decide to follow whatever rules or make a ruling. That's gut check at any time but you know you're absolutely right there there is a a system there a community of people who have come before you and solved problems that you will almost certainly run into that you can look and see okay how do i address this by people who have done so where you get that a lot less if you're embarking out on your own with ah a system that's less established and has less of a community which isn't to say that there is none. It would be a thing for me, I guess, because I haven't been a DM very many times. So when people ask me questions, I'm like, all right, cool.
00:43:17
Speaker
I can make up a thing on the fly, but I actually do kind of want to look into that interaction and see like, how was I supposed to resolve that? Can I do that better the next time it comes around? Things like that. And then if I don't have the resources, that gets little frustrating.
00:43:29
Speaker
um Right. Everyone has a different kind of experience with that and a different motivation for that. Yeah. But yeah, but that's I'm really excited to play this game. it It looks it sounds really cool. It looks really cool. I looked at a lot of the art.
00:43:46
Speaker
um I am really excited to see more from advanced advanced and see more of the systems that come from where the worlds or the the content that comes from this as well, because I feel like I can see people making little stories around this and it being very cool.
00:44:06
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. So I just for the record, I want it recorded here so that nobody can ever say I said anything otherwise. I am one of the sickos who will buy the the core book, the source books for this and just read them like they're a novel. Just ah absorb it all without having like I don't know that I'm ever going to be able to play this long term with a group. I don't yeah i couldn't tell you if that's going work out or not. I mean, I'm already mid-spell jammer. That's already scratching that edge, so I don't even know if I yeah would get back around to that long term.
00:44:38
Speaker
But it's it's just so... I want to exist in that world. I want to i want to absorb i want to soak it up like a sponge. Just the the vibes and the the mechanics and the little...
00:44:49
Speaker
the the new interesting things that pop up when you collide all of these different concepts and and rules together. um i ah i adore it. i don't I wouldn't recommend doing that for everybody else. I would probably recommend check out the playtest material now and if you like it,
00:45:08
Speaker
buy the the rest of this or pre-order the rest of the stuff if you have a group that will participate in it otherwise you are you just have books that you'll never use but i've collected source of books for games i will probably never play i feel like that would be as my curse to bear a fun way to homebrew some rules or like learn so ah like get ideas for new systems or things like that if you do dm very frequently reading a couple of different systems and being like oh i kind of like that rule i might actually like implement that a little in this in this kind of way and the campaign i'm thinking of doing or something like that just taking little bits of balls i feel like that would be very useful especially if you dm quite a bit but uh
00:45:49
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's a really neat like thing to do. I never really thought of just reading D&D systems books like that, but I do think that that would definitely not for the faint of heart. I mean, yeah, for sure. It's it's yeah.
00:46:01
Speaker
I was also i just had the thought of like, wouldn't it be cool to read the source book for like real life? It is like literally getting all the rules for a world. It is kind of cool to just get to look in and like peer through the the look at the back end of the code, watch all the switches slick and be like, oh, that's how this works. That's kind of neat.
00:46:23
Speaker
So I do hate to break this to you, but there are several pretty well-known groups of people around the world who do say that they have figured that out. And none of them like the other all that much. So it's just like, it's just like pen and paper.
00:46:41
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but no, I, I think, yeah, that that's the other thing too, is you're, you're absolutely right. Sorry to to circle back to what you said. yeah You're absolutely correct. I borrow stuff from like powered by the apocalypse games all the time for the, the, the, uh, the D and D games I'm running, even though the concept of like clocks isn't necessarily in D and d is an incredibly useful tool that once you learn it from somewhere else, you learn, Oh, I can apply it here too.
00:47:12
Speaker
Or, are yeah, and different ways you can tweak things or even just approach things have in the back of your mind. the The more informed you are of what's out there, the more you can improvise when someone asks you to do something crazy. You can say, oh, I actually can ah make something work for that.
00:47:29
Speaker
That's super cool. yeah I've been trying to teach myself to DM a little bit because I want to play pin and paper games and i don't have a group for it. And I feel like I'll have an easier time getting a group for it if I can bite the bullet and be the DM because I feel like no one wants to be DM. Everyone wants to play the game.
00:47:49
Speaker
Yeah, I get you. ah Surprise. When we do that video stream special episode of this podcast we're talking about, I am going to fully surprise you with two to four of your closest friends as we sit down around a virtual table and start playing just what's what's the most what's the stupidest thing I have over here? Pokemans.
00:48:09
Speaker
Well, that's just called Robot Wars. Oh, Robot Wars is pretty cool. Yeah. I don't know. think Pokemon's so freaking bad. That's the one that I want the most. I'm looking it. There's a new game I'm going to start playing soon. Someone else is a DMing, thank goodness. ah Stone Top, I think is going to be a lot of fun. once Once I get that under my belt, I'm sure I'll come back here and gab about it too. Yeah. Heck yeah. yeah all All good stuff. it's ah It's a fun, wild world. And this is why I wanted to do something pen and paper, something TTRPG for this episode. As we kind of kick back into the... get back into the swing of things, I didn't want to neglect that world because it's just there's so much fun new stuff happening here every day. i didn't even touch on the other things that Legends of Adventures has already published because they're so cool too, but I'm not going to give them any more...
00:48:57
Speaker
ah time on air because i've already gabbed for what feels like an eternity i'm gonna give them a little time on air because i was looking at one of their things and i think it looks so cool one of their uh systems called crooked moon or the crooked moon yes it looks so cool that is like so up my alley i love the art style i love all the like species I like that they use the word species instead of race. That's very nice to me. oh exactly Yeah, that's ah a nice trend that's been happening recently. yes very happy about it Very, very cool. I love the the subclasses. I really like this world. This one speaks to me on ah on a very severe level, but I love my like over the garden wall style.
00:49:38
Speaker
like storybook horror i i think that stuff is so cool so this this world is very very neat um but yeah they've got a ton of cool stuff yeah i like that shit um yeah but yeah i can't i can't speak to it necessarily again i'm not too familiar with these folks and i what i've really so i've spent a lot of time glazing these people and very little time actually getting invested in what they do what they've published before what their campaigns look like things like that but i'm definitely i'm taking the time now to start listening through them as as soon as i have a moment and i'm i'm very very eager to to immerse myself even more in this world and that's i mean
00:50:23
Speaker
ah we we've well passed, i think, the sign off at this point. yeah That is why I think you should play this game. Hell yeah. We got there. Wow. Oh, I've been talking for at least 50 minutes nonstop.
00:50:39
Speaker
Hell yeah. At least 15 minutes. minutes Exactly. I'm glad i brewed a green tea with honey before the start of this because my voice would be shot.
00:50:50
Speaker
Yeah, dude, I don't.
00:50:55
Speaker
I don't think I've heard you that excited for a thing in a while, like genuinely been that excited for a thing. in a while I'm so excited to see more of it. I'm so excited to see you pick this up. And if you do run a campaign, I really hope I get to join you at the virtual table or physical table, depending on where we are. irl Absolutely. i I would love to have you. I do still want to make something happen with that, with with with us and whoever else we can pull together. i know that's we not to not to curse the oh, we're going to talk about something that we want to do on here. Therefore, yeah will never happen. Yeah. um But I really do think that one of these days we'll pull it together and and make something happen. I'm i'm very much looking forward it, too. But. No matter the context, no matter what happens, I genuinely do think everyone should check this out for a um ah variety of reasons. One million more importantly than any of them. It's just so cool.
00:51:48
Speaker
It's rad, dude. i want to fly the spaceship and go fast and shoot things. I won ah want to be a space clown. Hee honk. I'm already an Earth clown. It's not that far of a stretch. Yeah, just one one really strong rocket away.
00:52:07
Speaker
Exactly. Goodness. Doctor, I'm Bagliacci. need to sign off. I've been James. I've been Alex.