Transcript
Speaker: Good. Good. So good. Good. So very good. Good.
Speaker: Welcome to the Good GM's Podcast. I'm E.E. Morris, and today's episode is Eternal Theater of the Spotless Mind. And now, here's Chuck and James.
Speaker: Hello and welcome to another episode of Good GM's podcast. ah I'm your host, James, followed by, followed with, ah I'm having a hard time. You are having a good day. hi I'm Chucky T. Welcome to the show.
Speaker: Hello. um So today we're going to talk about one um but one of the things I need to focus on and one of the things I'd like to get better at. So something I was really, excuse me.
Speaker: Um, the, uh, the idea of theater of the mind. So I'm going to be running uh, a, uh, live stream and I love maps, especially with Savage worlds. I love maps and minis to me. That's easy, yeah but I'm worried about how I'm going to show the audience what we're doing and it's still be entertaining when we're counting squares.
Speaker: So I'm, I want to focus a lot on how to create, an environment that exists entirely in our, in our heads. Okay. um Now, do you know where a theater of the mind comes from? Are you familiar with, with, ah with that? The origins of it? No,
Speaker: um not it's It's been, it's been around for a very, very, very long time. It was actually discussed in the original, like D and D stuff. um The idea that the the original, the original stuff back from the the early eighties didn't have a lot of maps. It was a lot of, a lot of describing what things were and how far things were from each other verbally but the actual thing comes from the like radio dramas um radio dramas were considered considered theater of the mind fact it's i can't remember the name of the guy who did it steve allen is a comedian who who who uh made made the line famous but i love the line it's radio is the theater of the mind television television is the theater of the mindless
Speaker: which is Which is pretty funny. But that expression comes from radio drama where they would have to create these visuals for you to to imagine. So...
Speaker: That's where I'm coming from. And I think today we should just like focus straight on facts and and and and and like we can all come up with and anecdotes and stuff. But I i really i put together a good list that I think you can assist me with this list absolutely of tools and things we can do instead.
Speaker: So why theater of the mind? Again, maybe you can't. have maps because you're, maybe you're just doing, and ah doing this over like, like audio only. Right. Maybe, maybe you're just playing with people over discord audio chat only who knows.
Speaker: Um, well, the thing to remember is a lot of the times when, you know, even in in person, um you you will be unconsciously doing theater of the mind.
Speaker: um Like, a you know, example. um Okay. ah Deadlands. I have the city of Gomorrah. Okay. Okay. So I'll have the overlay of the map or ah Deadlands Noir. I'll have New Orleans and I'll have the map laid out.
Speaker: My cat is going nuts. By the way, if you're watching and you wonder why my curtains start moving, He's possessed. He's possessed. Yeah, possessed. But so I have it laid out. And yeah, I'll be like, but well there's here's this, this, this. And and you know, it's very easy just to go into describing a scene, even though I don't have a map.
Speaker: um I'm just, i'm I'm talking about, okay, you're, you're out front and it's the newspaper stand and you're talking to a contact yeah and this, this and that, and this is the the weather outside and, um you know, things to remember with that is, you so I think a lot the times, James will just unconsciously go into theater of mind and not even realize it Well, yeah, no. And obviously you're not going to have a visual for every scene and every person and every, like I i try to do that with one of my campaigns and you don't try to have an image, but you don't need it. And and I'm not going to, I'm not going to go out of my way to do that for my, my monster hunters club game. Because again, I think, what if it's just an audio drama at the end? Like what if people, what if people can watch it, but a lot of people do watch it while they're driving, and listen to it while they're driving to work. They're not really, yeah, they're not really looking at it. So, so here's some, here's some tips that I have. And again, feel free. I'll do, if you want to look at the show notes, I'll do one, one of them. You can do another one or however you want to do it. But one of my, one of my biggest tips ah that I've learned, and I wish I could remember exactly who said it, but I love the three senses rule.
Speaker: So when you're describing something, Don't just say you walk into a bar, it's it's ah it's a big bar, it has dust, it it's it's ah it's about 30 feet wide by 60 feet long, and it has eight tables.
Speaker: so You know, we can all imagine a bar, but then when you add in stuff like the smell of tobacco and stale beer fills your senses and sweat, you can hear people laughing and slamming their fists on tables.
Speaker: You can, you can, you know, like, like instead of saying you're in a cave, talk about you hear, you hear water dripping. It's dark in here, but you can still see reflections on on the, on the moist surfaces and the smell of the mildew.
Speaker: There's a, there's a faint hint of, of fresh air coming from somewhere off in the distance. Have you read any of the shadow dark material? No, I have not. You should. um and It's she, the the the lady that that produced that, one of the core tenets every time that they are describing a a room or somewhere you go into, um there ah specifically there are three points of contact.
Speaker: That's like, okay, like what, what do you, what do you, what can you hear? What can you, if, if taste, if, if, if you can get that far down and touch and, you know, you'll try to hit those as many of those senses as possible. um Yeah. I, I, I guess the freestyle I'll, I'll send it to you. Cause she's, she's got, she did big out. Yeah. Shadow Dark has got an interesting, interesting,
Speaker: way of making sure that every product you get from that, when it goes to those scenes, it's, it's baked right into it. Right. It's really good. Yeah. um And then I don't know if you want to talk about another point on here, or you have your own that you want to add to it.
Speaker: I know you actually, one thing that I know you do really well when you're describing scenes, you do it from a camera's perspective. it's Yeah, it's ah for for me, ah for me ah i I need that.
Speaker: I need that. It's a great way to tell. It's a great way to tell. It's visual. It's very visual. um And I need that. you know especially Especially when I'm running it is in my head, it has to make sense. So what you do is is is a describing technique that you're you're following the camera.
Speaker: But the point the point that I have on the on the list here, if you wanted to look, it's just like, think of like a lot of these are in threes. So talk about the wide, the medium and the close up shots of the scene. Right. So can you, you want to elaborate on that one? or ah So, yeah yeah. So the why is like, where are we? the on The cameras going over top of the parking lot and then, you know, meeting what stands out. Oh, there's the the empty parking space except for that one car.
Speaker: Right. That's that's there. And ah we can tell it's it's it's you know, it's evening out. The lamps are on and we can hear the the insects. We can see That it might be closer to dawn because we can see dew reflecting off the grass. And then the close-up is actually in the car where we see the two college couples.
Speaker: And they're drinking and they're listening to you know ah some music on the radio. And they're having a good time and the car thumps violently. So we all just imagined that right like We all just imagine. We know what a parking lot looks like. we we We don't know what color the car is. We don't know what make, model, or year of the car is. But we know we all have pictured a car of some kind when we when you told that. So that was great. another Another rule of three that I have here is the ah is the three anchors. So when when you think of things, when you're describing a ah ah room, instead of coming up with like the 10 things in that tavern to describe, pick three anchors.
Speaker: like points. So the table, the the room is filled with tables, like that locals enjoying drinks, um the crowded bar at the far end, and you can see the frustrated bartender trying to keep up with the with the with the countless orders. And then behind him, you can see a stairway leading up to the VIP section. So now we've got a scene with three three points.
Speaker: to reference, right? which I like that. Which is pretty good. I i like that. so oh When it comes to the camera thing, um I've heard it a lot on actual plays yeah um more recently, but there was What's that?
Speaker: They're copying the Savage Sessions, I think. God, I wish that was true. I wish that was true. No, I'm copying them because it works for me. But anyway, there was another group. I believe it sounds like crows.
Speaker: m I believe. I i believe. yeah we You might have to edit that out. But anyway. I believe it sounds like crows. And then the people, the guys that were behind that, the, I, I, if I remember correctly, they were specifically into television and things like that. And when they were talking about that, they they talk a lot about why and how they use like dollies, pans, transitions, things like that. Because nowadays it's very easy for this generation and, you know our generation to visualize that.
Speaker: Yeah, we've all grew up with movies and television. We all did. So, yeah you know, theater of the mind, TVs, movies are theater of the mind list unless you're describing them, in which case. Yeah. Yeah. yeah um another Another point that I want to make real quick in terms of like, how do I describe a scene? So let's talk about, so we've talked about setting the scene for the role playing. How do we do combat using theater of the mind?
Speaker: That, okay, that's the hard part. That's always the hard part. One of my favorite tricks that I've learned from other games. So even though Savage Worlds is based on inches and and how many like squares, a square is like, you know what is it, two meters or five, six feet or whatever. um A lot of games are based around that.
Speaker: i I like, we talked about the Frankensteining, you know, bringing in our favorite things from other games. Yeah. There's one I really like from, um I think it was Daggerheart does it. And 2D20, we learned from James, does something similar where you have the zones. Yeah.
Speaker: Yes. Yes. So instead of deciding like how many inches my character can run, say like, I'm going to describe the area. And then when you tell me what you want to do, I'll tell you if, you know, like you can move from one zone to another. So for example, like there's melee, which is like within arm's reach, being able to touch somebody or or grab somebody or punch somebody or hit somebody. Then there's very close, which is like, imagine it's like a few squares away.
Speaker: um Or just a few steps away instead of it being like, yeah you know, you have to, and then, and then, and then close is your full movement. So you can get there this, this turn and then do something. Okay. But then you get into far, right?
Speaker: Far being, you need, you can get there, but you're going to have to, you're going to have to run. yep to get there, or it's going to take you a couple of rounds to get there. And then very far as I can see the person, if I want to shoot them, it's long range.
Speaker: If they want to shoot me, I'm invisible, but, but I, to get to them will take several rounds. Yes. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Again, I'll the, yeah. ah ah That shadow dark. I will. Yes. All right. oh Fine. No, no, no. Cause they, cause they do the same thing.
Speaker: They do the same thing. And I think it's becoming much more of a trend. And a lot of publications is that a lot of players don't want to sit there. and try and figure out, okay, what am I going to do with my 30 feet of movement? Yay. Okay. What can I do? They don't want to do that. Oh, I heard many years ago. Um, another fantastic GM, uh, daddy once said, um, when, so when it comes to express the theory of the mind is like, how close am I? You know, what, what do you want to exactly what you said? What do you want to do?
Speaker: Well, I want to, I want to hit the guy. Okay. You're going to have to run up and, and, and, and hit the guy so you can do it, but you might be at a penalty. Another thing that he, that he liked to throw out was, well, uh, I'm on the other side of the room or like, can I, can I shoot this guy?
Speaker: How far away am i Plot appropriate distance. Yeah. Yeah. And at first I heard that, i was like, that's some condescending crap right there. Then I thought about oh, no, that works.
Speaker: Oh, that really works. That works. Yeah. no Like we did it we did a fight. We did a fight ah with Masson and Arlithotep where where the group the four of you were fighting a ah ghoul.
Speaker: but And, yeah and I don't know how you envisioned it, but I had it envisioned on my head in my mind. Like I had a a clear vision of it. Like your character was holding a lantern and that was yeah pretty much illuminating the whole situation. yeah um you know, Archie was up on a hill doing some aiming and the other, the other two characters were, were kind of like flanking the the monster that was, you were trying to draw its attention. So the other two could attack it. And we did, we had a great fight and I didn't use a mini and didn't use maps.
Speaker: And it was one of our best combats, in my opinion. and It was yeah fantastic. Yeah. yes And then we did another one recently where you guys went up against eight cultists and that needed the maps, but that was another story. I could have probably done it without the maps, but that's what we're talking about today.
Speaker: But you see, but that's the thing. When you get down to that granule of, okay, we're taking on, like, okay, with the four of us against one enemy, or, like, the four of us and there's one opponent for each of us, then...
Speaker: you could get away in my opinion you can get away with not having to have a map but when you say it's the four of us we're trying to get to this chick who's got some information for us and guys there's eight cultists coming after us at that point it's like no no you had no no it's gonna be easier it's easier some people to visualize it with a map for sure right it's about knowing the difference but but the point of this episode is to try to figure out let's say it's not cultists and let's say it's it's It's four You know monster hunting Kids right and you're being Attacked by a horde of zombies Okay Do we need a map for that or can we Describe it like it's a horde How much is a horde well Do you want to take your turn to count them or do you want to Just imagine a horde exactly Exactly because at that point In my opinion at that point when you say horde That's one enemy
Speaker: Sure. That's just one enemy. It's just a large edge round. Each round, you can take a turn describing your own zombie that you you attacked. You know, it doesn't have to be. Here we go. You're running. You're dodging. You're attacking back and blah, blah, blah. So and that is the beauty of, um you know, the theater of the mind is you you don't have to have that.
Speaker: you know resource right there. You could just get into it and just get it done. Go through, just just try and remember the old the points of contacts.
Speaker: Keep giving. That way the players can kind of know, but also make sure as the GM, you're telling the players if it sounds... realistic if it sounds plausible, it's there.
Speaker: You can create the scene with me. It's okay. So that's the other thing I think I wanted to say too, was let's say we described that bar room, right? We talked about the tables. We talked about the crowd. We talked about the stairs up to the VIP section. Now, all of a sudden, the the the bad guy gang has pulled guns and now there's a shootout in the bar and your group is trying to survive and get out alive or to get up to the top, to the VIP section to rescue the...
Speaker: diplomat or whatever right so we've described all that on your turn what do you want to do so there's there's there's a couple of people up on the mezzanine with guns there's a handful of people around in the bar hiding behind like tables one of them's got a woman uh hostage with a gun to her head telling you to put down your weapons what do you what you know what i mean like there's all this stuff is happening on your turn you can say well Like, oh, how far away are they? Like, no. Or you can say, i want to i want to find ah some cover and I want to shoot the closest guy.
Speaker: Yeah. so Simple as that. you You flip a table over and you can get behind it. And, you know, not too far to your right, there is there is one of the guys with the guns is is hiding behind a ah ah a bench. Sure. You can probably take a shot at him, but you're going need you're gonna need to to shoot through cover. So take a minus two or roll with disadvantage or Right.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly. and in day And now we know there's a guy over there. We've described him. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And yeah, it, yes, it can absolutely, you can get old. I know a lot of GMs that do not want maps because they just don't want to mess with it.
Speaker: They just, I just got so used to it that I'm going to, it's going to be a challenge for me to do it. It will be a challenge. It's a crutch. It's a crutch. I think in a lot of ways too, if I don't have the crutch, I'll be able to like,
Speaker: do it without the crutch yeah absolutely and i'll learn as i go but Absolutely. And just just what i this list you have here, this is a good list. It's ah it's it's an excellent list. If anything, you know for our Patreon listeners, they you should you should provide this for them. Oh, really? like you have hair well um that is I'm glad you mentioned that because um actually one of the things that that our our producer, Rainey, had brought up is the idea that we should we should put together a book of of like
Speaker: our best tips that we can, we can sell it in store or give to our patrons or whatever we can, you know, you can download a list to put as your GM inserts or something like that. Right. like Right. um Not a bad idea. Well, how do we, how would one go about becoming a Patreon supporter though? Now that you mentioned it, Chuck,
Speaker: Well, you go on to patron of good GMs and sign up. It's free. So, so is it, uh, is it patrion.com forward slash good GMs podcast? There you go. That sounds about right. yeah if That sounds about right. I like that. and you guys like that free And as a result, the best part is you get to join our discord and our discord is really starting to take off.
Speaker: um Those of you who are already in it know that um you we we started a book club, I think, by this point when we're recording. We've got um Cam Rogers, who's a writer. He's going to be on our show. We're going to be interviewing him next week. And that that episode might come out before this episode because of timing. um he's he's ah He's starting a podcast, too, that he's interviewing some pretty cool people. But he he wrote for Warframe.
Speaker: He's a writer. like he's He's a very talented writer. And he's written for for RPGs, for video games, but also for role-playing games and stuff too, for tabletop role-playing games. But we're going to be interviewing him. um But he's going to be running a um and an actual play 2 on Twitch, similar to my Monster Hunters Club one. And it's going to be mothership.
Speaker: And so for our book club on Discord, he's going to be... with our first book that that we've chosen is Mothership. So if you don't have a copy of Mothership, go to go to go buy it on, sorry, DriveThruRPG, find it from the the the publisher, Google it and and order a copy so that you can you can join the the Discord and join our our our book club and learn a learn a new game um and then suggest games that you want to learn. Like I would love for somebody to do Blades in the Dark. That'd be a lot easier for me to understand rules when I've got people reading it with me, right?
Speaker: Well, that's the other thing with this, with with the theater of the mind is, yeah, we we we, we, we, we have a nice list here, but we want to hear your thoughts too.
Speaker: Yeah. Throw it out there. Say, yeah, this is, this is, this is some of the things that I like to do with it. And yeah, absolutely. If you, if you listen to this episode on your favorite podcast provider, leave us a review, leave us a comment. yes You know, um if you watching this on YouTube, you know, comment, like share, subscribe, do all that. um And if you'd like us enough to want to interact with us in our, in our community, join us on Patreon, join us on discord.
Speaker: We're, we're, things are starting to happen over there and I'm really excited about it. So things are growing and, and we're all, we're all experiencing, ah you know, getting experience and leveling up here at a good GM's podcast, which is fantastic. Yeah, we are.
Speaker: um But yeah, I guess this is a short one, but it's a good one. I think there's a lot of good tips. Any any particular takeaways? For me, the biggest takeaway that I think is is somehow incorporating like the rules of the game that involve what a character's pace is because if a character has has a but a faster movement than another character, we don't want to discourage.
Speaker: We want to encourage that. you know Trying to incorporate the zones in ah in ah in ah um in a... What's the word? um in ah In a descriptive way. In ah in ah in a like visual...
Speaker: like word way. bri i'm good today um But yeah, that to me is going to be the biggest thing for like dealing with combat and using zones instead of inches.
Speaker: Yes, yes, yes. Close, medium, far. Yeah, the camera stuff. yeah There you go. yeah Absolutely. Do it. Maps aren't maps aren't cheating, but they're not you don't have to have a map for every single scene. Don't worry about that. yeah And there's definitely games there's definitely games where i wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily want to play some of those games if I didn't have maps. like If I'm doing a tactical combat game or I'm doing a mass skirmish where like we're dealing with like you know we a whole army of people against a whole army of people, yeah, give me give me a map.
Speaker: Yeah. at least At least a visual reference of where we are on the map. say Save it for the spots where you think you're going to have a big scene, something like that. It's going to save you a lot of time if you don't have to make a map and paint your movies. yes. Yeah. Yeah, that's also true.
Speaker: I do love my movies. I got to be honest. to Right. But with the theater of the mind, Don't be afraid to use it. It's because chances are you're already doing it and you just didn't realize it had a term. And it's a muscle. Your brain is a muscle. it can Yes, it is. And work it out. Heck yeah. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. If you have any any questions, problems, concerns, talk to our agent.
Speaker: Right. And remember, if the if the GM is smiling, it's too late. Yeah.
Speaker: Thank you for watching. If you like or dislike what you heard, let us know. If you want to suggest an idea for an episode, ask the host a question, or just tell Chuck and James what you really think of them, join our communities at patreon.com forward slash good GM's podcast, or find us on the usual social media platforms.
Speaker: For now, I'm E.E. Morris, and you're all good GMs.
Speaker: We are so grateful to all of our Patreon supporters. At the gooder level, Weird Candy.
Speaker: Yes, E.E. Morris. I put my own money to back our projects because we're all good GMs.
