Transcript
Speaker: This summer, prepare yourself for a new and exciting episode of The Good GM's Podcast, Episode 20, Once Upon a Game in Hollywood, starring James Curry Chucky T.
Speaker: Hello! Welcome to an episode of um the Good GM's podcast. I am your host, James Curry, and it is a beautiful day today. We are we are here and enjoying this weather in separate countries and separate places, but but in our hearts connected. Am I right there, Chuck? Absolutely. Hi, I'm Chuck E.T. Glad to have you all here.
Speaker: um And today we have a really neat discussion. um Before we get into that, I don't know if there's anything you want to talk about in terms... I mean, I've i've started, i mean, as of the time that this video is being recorded, i am about to start a campaign of of Monster Hunters Club and I am so excited about it. It's going to be on Friday nights. ah Good GMs is presenting it. It's Friday nights on Twitch. Twitch.tv forward slash Good GMs podcast. Follow us there. The episodes are going to go up like shortly after on YouTube.
Speaker: um They're available for a week on on Twitch. So if you miss one, you can watch it and then catch up on on YouTube and and and join us. But I think it's going to be awesome. I'm very excited. I'm sorry. I'm sorry you can't do Friday nights, but I can't. Oh, yeah. all trust me i was I was kicking myself. I was kicking myself like.
Speaker: Dang it. I got my buddy Alejandro and then and I got got James. We all know from from our podcast here. And my buddy, my buddy Earl, who I did a few plays with. He's a he's a fantastic actor. And and hopefully he'll he's know I mean, he's played lots of role playing games, never played Savage World. oh But we got a bit of a ringer because Sarah M is is ah she's written for Mass and I or not Massive Monster Hunter's Club. She's written for like Savage World stuff. She's a big fan. And I think um think she's a friend of one of our ah Patreons. I think that she found us because Carl Kiesler was nice enough to share the post. So yeah, it's going to be, it's a great cast and it's an awesome story. So I'm really looking forward to running it. um
Speaker: And then my OSE game is still going. I'm a ah Druid. It's awesome. um And then, you know, playing, still playing Hero Quest, still playing Mask and Iron Lotha Teppan. Wow. boy Wow. Oh my God. I'm still running through my ETU campaign. we are...
Speaker: Oh, Savage Sessions. Look them up on. Yes. Savage Sessions. Find us on Facebook, Instagram. Oh, my God. YouTube. We're on Spotify. Let's throw a link in the show notes. That's a fantastic idea, James. I appreciate that. that ah Yeah. Yeah. so um we've just wrapped up a story on that. And in fact, just the other day, are the voice, the voice, E.E. Morris morris ah started couple seconds ago. ah Yeah, the first time behind the GM screen. And he is running Call Cthulhu, What's in the Cellar, written by John hun Hook. yeah Yeah, amazing. So yeah, yeah, we got that. And then Big Stompy is gearing up for our Thanksgiving episode. And that is going to be Feed the Many.
Speaker: If you have not found that on RPG Drive Thru, yeah. Drive-thru RPG. Yeah, that. Yes, that. Yes, I know how to talk. I promise. yeah It was me me in that session a couple episodes ago. Now it's my turn. ah But yeah, yeah. so we're ah we're excited about that. And then, yeah, I have a Deadlands The Weird West Christmas episode coming.
Speaker: So yeah. I love your holiday episodes. I usually take part in those from time to time. <unk> Yeah. They're a lot of fun. So what have we got today, James? haven't done a Savage Session with you since what? It's been a while. We did the Haunting.
Speaker: I don't know if that if when and if that's going to air or if it's already aired. or if ah not yet Not yet. Not yet. A a lot a lot of our holiday episodes I have to start throwing out. yeah but Yeah. What do we got today, James? so but um Excuse me. We are. So I had this idea. i was watching some movies and I was thinking to myself, man, like, like there's got to be some like ah screenwriting techniques and film film craft techniques that we can steal. Like we talked about stealing, you know, mechanics from one game to make our other games better.
Speaker: But like, what about like we are storytellers at our heart. And I mean, if you play Vampire the Masquerade, you are quite literally a storyteller if you play. any of the white wolf stuff. um But how can we learn from the greats?
Speaker: ah You know, Kurosawa, Steven Spielberg, um, uh,
Speaker: Sergio Leone, like some of the great storytelling. Guy Ritchie. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Like, how can we take some of these amazing, you know, concepts that they use in telling their stories and tell them in ours? So um I've created a bit of a list. i've I've narrowed it down to about seven key ones um that I've even combined a couple.
Speaker: um But But and they range from like even theater concepts. So the first one, again, I'll go through them in order if you want. And I'll describe them and you can do that real quick. So the first one I have on my list is Chekhov's gun.
Speaker: So um Anton Chekhov, I believe is his name. um He he was um a a Russian playwright and he has he had the theory that the the it comes from the idea. He said, if you have a rifle in act one, you you better pull the trigger by act three.
Speaker: Right. um and and that And that's true for props, like for objects, that's true for, for but it's also true for for just story hooks. And and where it comes, ah the idea of it is, um like some examples that I can give, um like in... um Lord of the Rings in in the Fellowship of the Ring, ah Bilbo ah has a Mithril shirt that he gives to Frodo. yeah And it seems at the time when he gives it, it's sort of just like, here's an heirloom, here's here's the ring, here's this little sort you know here's all the little things that I had from my adventures. you know
Speaker: But when he gets stabbed by the cave troll, we realized- Should have killed him. Should have killed him, but it didn't because that story beat came back, right? do you Can you think of any examples or you know off the top of your head or from my list? of ah yeah um Well, for for me, the Chekhov's gun. you know i you know i i i've I've heard about it, and i just i don't I don't really think about that much. But you're right.
Speaker: Really good like movies, TV series. now cause I'm actually going to TV series. like ah mom Right now, my wife and i were watching From. If you haven't seen that amazing series, nice but every single episode, it'll start with something very similar to this. They'll focus on something.
Speaker: Yeah. And you'll you'll know it's important. ah Then they'll go through a bunch of other stuff. And then usually it's towards the end of the the episode.
Speaker: It's like, bam, this is why there is. That's why it's important. Yeah. Right. Well, and sometimes it's obvious. Sometimes you're watching a movie. Like, I can't remember the name of it, but I saw this one with ah with rus Russell Crowe, where he he plays this like road rager who attacks this woman at the very beginning of the movie. She's like a hairdresser and she runs out of her house and then turns around, comes back and grabs her pair of scissors. And I'm like,
Speaker: okay Yeah, we're going to see those scissors. We're going see those scissors. We didn't have that moment of like, oh no, my lucky scissors. But in in game terms in game terms, let's talk about it like, so, you know, as GM, sometimes we think our players aren't paying attention.
Speaker: um yeah Sometimes they are. And sometimes and most of the times they are. we just We just don't give them enough credit. But at the end of the day, i find that if you have a loaded gun in Act 1 and you don't fire it by Act 3, what you're training your players to do is not pay attention.
Speaker: So it's like, oh, none of that stuff that I was supposed that I had, I had thought in my head was important. When he mentioned that scar, when he talked about that prophecy, when the old witch mentions the secret cave, and then we never found a secret cave. We never saw what the origin of that scar. We never understood what that secret prophecy was. Then why why bother?
Speaker: He's just going to spell it out for us anyway. Let's stop paying attention. Even if it's subconscious, they so they learn that. So this is why it's an important one to me. And and again, if it has to be blatant like those pair of scissors, then it's fine as long as you they understand you know this is why he's bringing it up is because this is going to be important. Let's make a note. Let's make a note. Let's pay. Right. Well, also as, as the GM, it's, it's, it's fun.
Speaker: It's fun to put that in there. Yeah. And then even if the players forget about it, something along the lines, and then all of a sudden, bam, it hits there. There is a satisfying thing for it. And also it just, it helps. makes It looks like you were planning everything. So like, even if you throw out something like I do a lot of, which is like, I need to come up with something real quick. I didn't have anything planned for like, you know, it's like, Oh, you succeeded on that insight role. I got to figure out what you, what you inferred and then just write it down and make sure you try to find a way to bring it in later.
Speaker: Right. Right. Um, and, and, you know, for it, The best way that I've found with this is that, like you said, you you bring up something in the beginning. Don't do, oh, for God's sakes, don't do a lot of them.
Speaker: You know, or if you do, make certain that, okay, I've talked about the scissors. I've talked about the scar. Oh, yeah there's that weird room in the back of the hallway that we were going to go and open and something distracted us, you know, make sure you come back to that. Yeah, exactly. You know, at least, you know, if, if not, if not in that session,
Speaker: One or two sessions later, come back to that. Absolutely. But drop references to that room. that and if you're running a long campaign, yes don't be afraid to remind your players. Like, we're we're doing the Masks and I are Lithotope game, and I have to occasionally go, don't forget that clue you found in New York.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. Make sure you look at your clue board from New York, too, not just the one from London, because there's stuff that, you know... um Yes. But, yeah. So that's that's important. So... so Let's let I mean, just to just to sum it up, Chekhov's gun is ah the you know, the idea that if you're going to introduce something early in your campaign, make sure you resolve it because you're training your players. Yeah, we do. We do have an episode called How to Train Your Players, but this is another way to train your players. It's like if you do reward them for paying attention, they're going to learn to pay attention. And if you don't reward them for paying attention,
Speaker: your reward you're You're training them to... to it It doesn't matter. You don't have to pay attention. And and the payoff the payoff is good. For me, for me it's it's i just love being able to drop that little thing right and then mention it. There's a little something to it. Move on, move on, move on, move on towards the end of the episode.
Speaker: Bam! Or like three sessions later, three sessions later. Oh, yeah. Like, oh, my God. Oh, that. That oh thing. yeah Absolutely. Absolutely. ah So next, the next one I have here is I wrote down is the ticking clock. So yeah Alfred Hitchcock, one of my, like, I started rewatching the Hitchcock Presents, like the old black and white ones. they're Oh, nice.
Speaker: And they have like 60 episode seasons or something ridiculous. It's crazy. I've never seen what TV was like back in the day. But they're all so good. And he had said, suspense is summed up as a bomb under the table that the audience knows about. Yes.
Speaker: And so example the ticking clock in to me, like a good example to me, i haven't actually seen the movie, but I know the plot. I've seen the the trailers. It's a movie I'd actually been, been ah told I should watch. It's called high noon. Oh yeah. We were talking about that. Yeah. We, yeah.
Speaker: The premise of that movie is that the train is coming in at noon and it's carrying carrying the bad gang that want revenge on the town and everybody's starting to pack up and leave. And the sheriff is looking to like create a posse in order to like make a stand to, to, you know, so the whole movie is taking place in the hours leading up to noon Because we know that at noon, that's when you know poop hits the fan.
Speaker: Yeah. I've never seen this. I've heard about it. I've heard about it. And it is. It's always at the top. Like when enthusiasts, Western enthusiasts talk about Western movies, high noon is almost always in the top ten.
Speaker: Well, we become part of our vernacular. Like we say high noon in yeah know like reference to to we don't necessarily always know what it's from, right? But any other examples you can think of? or Oh, well... Yeah, okay, yeah. you Yeah, Speed. Yeah, Classic. I mean, Speed's an obvious one. know it's like yeah show The show 24 is a good one, too, where we know we know that you know after something happens in 24 hours and we have to watch every hour. I just wonder why when that guy has time to pee. we never see We never see the three episodes in a row where he's on a plane flying three hours. But like...
Speaker: It's all good. But anyway, um so that how I mean, off the top of your head, how would you incorporate something like that into into your game as a GM? Like if you wanted to create this tension, which is the bomb under the table that the audience knows about, how would you do it? How would you set that ticking clock?
Speaker: At that point, I'm looking um you know you with with the players being the audience. um i love I love messing with the players. Can't help myself. yeah ah And so I have no problem breaking the fourth wall or or just the meta knowledge of, you know, they they go talk to this guy and they're like, oh, yeah, well, the boat leaves at such and such a time.
Speaker: And we we, you know, the thing you're looking for is on it, you know. um or Or we know that there's it a good example, because this is from from the game. We know that in 10 days from our current day in game, the is the is the night of the new moon. And we also know that the girl that we're trying to rescue is going to be sacrificed in a place that we haven't found yet. Right. So we literally have 10 in-game days to find it.
Speaker: Otherwise, yeah that's it. Bye-bye, Alicia. Bye, Alicia. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, she's gone. She's gone. We're we're not never going to find her. um i have I have no doubts about that. oh But no but my for my example, it's like they go to talk to this guy, you know, NPCA.
Speaker: And they're like, oh, we're looking for, like I said, NPCB or an item or something like that. And NPCA a says, oh, yeah, no, it's it's here. It's on this. ah But you need to be careful. It's it's it's guarded.
Speaker: And, you know, it's like, oh, so, okay, so then hopefully the players like, okay, well, we we need to be ready for it. And so now now I start splitting things. And, like, when they leave, I immediately go to NPC A talking to NPC B.
Speaker: Oh, so you show the behind the scenes stuff. Right. So as and then I do a split thing. So it's like A looks at B or henchman B and says, okay, I need you to do this, this. and I need you to do a few things. that's Leave it vague. I need to do a few things. And then I go to the players.
Speaker: Well, what are the players doing? And then I let like one player, well, I'm getting this, this, and this. And, you know, maybe make it a little bit so there's there's something they got to do to get whatever they need so they can gear up. And then I cut to a henchman B. And it's him talking to some people and him specifically saying, I need you on this boat before this time.
Speaker: Yeah. And then and then hopefully by the time I get to the second player, And they do their thing and they go back to henchman B and he's got something scarier than the first one.
Speaker: You know, like maybe the second person he talks to is, you know, if I'm doing a fantasy thing, maybe he's got like two ogres. Or he's a lich or something. No, no, no. That's too much. It's too much. I don't know. It's the time. It's all about the time. And so as they're not wasting time, they're not wasting time. They're doing what they need to do. But now they're seeing the ticking clock.
Speaker: Both sides are going to hit pretty quick here. yeah And it's like ding, ding, ding. And that's what the country starts what you're doing. You're basically telling me the story of High Noon, except it's a boat. which is pretty cool. Yeah. It's like, here we go. What are doing? I mean, and other ah other ways, I mean, we could literally like, if we look at blades in the dark, we could literally have a clock.
Speaker: We could literally have like a little chart on the table that you're like every so often you're coloring in something. That's the progress of the bad guys. So the players know, oh the bad guy's clock is filling faster than our clock. We need we got to do some more stuff. Yeah. yeah I love it. I love it. Exactly. So setting that ticking clock for your players is a great way to build attention. And the easiest way to do that is sort of show them behind the curtain or give them a little piece or give them that deadline, like the rituals happening at midnight or the rituals happening in the new moon or whatever, like give them that deadline, knowing that if they don't,
Speaker: accomplish what they need or find the things that they need time will run out and that's that's awesome i love that yes yeah yeah um so the next one i have on the list is is is called the delayed reveal and i love the story behind this concept yeah this was it's it's actually it's also called the jaws technique and the reason it's called the jaws technique is that the animatronic shark that was built for jaws kept malfunctioning. And so Steven Spielberg's like, um okay, so the scene where the shark is supposed to attack these people, how about we do a shot of a fin in the water and people screaming and running away? Or how about we do a POV shot from the shark's perspective so we don't have to show the shark, but we'll have some, like, we'll get John Williams to do some spooky music or something. Like, we'll find some way to build that tension and create that anxiety without having this, like, expensive animatronic shark appear until, like, act three.
Speaker: Right. But you also got to think now, yeah, he did what the best of what he had, but it's iconic. Oh, and it works. Right. You look at Alien. Alien's another example. We don't see the alien in full until the end of the movie.
Speaker: Oh, it's it's it's the classic thing that I've heard for years is, you know, show you but you don't reveal the monster, but you show what it's done.
Speaker: Yeah. And the imagination of the players. Yeah. We'll fill it. Yeah. We'll fill it. So you show like you show villagers running away. Yeah. Screaming. And, and, and, you know, you show, you show the body of the person who's ripped apart and the claw marks and the bite marks. And you go, what the hell could do this? Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. And you start building up and you hear you hear the creaking in the, in the, in the attic or you, you, you can see, you can see the shadow in the corner. Like, and as you, as you approach it, it it takes off and you just see, you know, you know, the outline of fur or something, you know, like, yeah or or there' or there's, there's something chasing them and you specifically set up the scene so that they're going to get away.
Speaker: They're going to get away. Well, yeah. And, uh, you know, the second time. No, no, no, no, no. The first time. Definitely. Cause all you're doing, all you're doing is you're just freaking them out by having, okay, well they're, they're being chased and they're running down the, the the main drag of that village. And maybe there's debris and stuff. And this thing is lumbering behind them. And then it starts going faster. Yeah.
Speaker: And so as they're running and, you know we have them do their dice rolls and, you know, to avoid objects and just to keep pace ahead of this thing behind it. Describe how the person, know, because the classic thing they're running, where the hell is it? Looks over their shoulder and all they see is the debris that you've been jumping over or skirting around. Boom. It's just going up in the air.
Speaker: Yeah. And all they see is a dark mass behind it. And maybe to freak about even more. Dust debris. Yeah. Dust debris or or even worse. If there's any light source whatsoever, as it's getting closer to it, it gets snuffed out.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. So all you see is what it's doing. i i um and it's It's not a great example because i was re-watching Stranger Things and there's this great scene and it just made me think of it. is is ah So we already saw the inipps season, wow what is it, season three or four, we saw when when ah all the bodies turn into the giant like you know gelatinous layer. But there's this great scene where they're up on the top of the like um the wheelers, ah Nancy and and Mike's mom and dad and little sister. Or on the top of the Ferris wheel. and they And the fireworks are going off. And they're all looking up at the fireworks. and little girl's like, Mom, the trees are moving. And you look at them. You just see the trees being pushed aside like they're tall grass.
Speaker: Yeah. Or like and in in Jurassic Park ah with with the raptors moving through the tall grass. And you're just like. No. yeah Yes. Yes. You see the tall grass moving, but you don't see the monster yet.
Speaker: The better. Yeah. Yeah. The cup of water. e a cup of water. That's it. Yeah. And it just shakes and ripples. What is that?
Speaker: and And they do that for an agonizing long time. So you know. Or just the eye of the Tyrannosaurus when the kids just like shine a light. and that And that's how it says. The delayed reveal. So before they hear something, maybe. Yeah. Then then they hear and feel. they see And they look at the water. Just a foot or just react. No, no, no. Not even a foot. yeah ah There's just inside the vehicle.
Speaker: yeah It's already storming. it's already hell outside. And then it because it was genius. It was a genius shot. right Spielberg again. Spielberg, man. like Oh, cha Cameron. Was it Cameron? No, Jurassic Park. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah Yeah. No, my bad. Yeah. That's okay. But Cameron's genius at it too. Like Aliens. Oh, God, yeah. Alien was great. And boom. Yeah. the But and that's the thing. The delayed reveal is the take a deep breath because you know, it's coming.
Speaker: You know, it's coming. You know, when you have a big bad coming, like, you know, there's a monster, maybe not the big, big bad, but maybe there's a monster that they're hunting or they're looking for. Don't, don't give it to them in in episode one, give it to them in in session three, but give them, give them hints in the first. Yeah. um We interrupt our program to bring you this important message.
Speaker: Hey dudes, guess what? Good GMs has taken over Twitch Friday nights, 7pm Eastern Time. You can watch us play Monster Hunters Club.
Speaker: Totally radical actual play Savage Worlds game about kids in the 80s. Oh my gosh, it's gonna be totally radical. So check your flashlight, check your walkie talkies, and whatever you do, man, don't be bogus. Right on. Friday nights, good GMs on Twitch. Look for a good GMs podcast and be there and get some pizza.
Speaker: So the next the next topic I've got here is called the calm before the storm. Ah, yes. um And it actually, it's it's funny because the the examples of this I have, it's it's very much used in in know in Western movies. It's very much used, but it's it's also very much used in Japanese film. and It's actually a concept, Kurosawa, whose name I can't think of his first name, but Kurosawa, it's a term, again, I'm not totally, Forgive my pronunciation. no sometimes um I forgive you. Is is is Ma. like like with the tab Not just Ma. Like hey Ma.
Speaker: um But like Ma. but't know But it's an example. Example that I have from from something like Seven Samurai. right Is the idea of. Right before the big battle. We see the calm village. And there's like a five minute shot of raindrops. Falling on on puddles or or buckets of water. Just this calm.
Speaker: moment And the concept behind it is the idea that to truly understand the violence, you have to understand peace. Right. And, and to me, there's great examples. I mean, again, feel free to, to throw out other examples from film and television that twister.
Speaker: i mean, I hate to be too much on the nose quite literallyter but um before the storm. Yeah. Well, when they are out there and they're getting ready and there's all that violence, they violence before violence, before a violence, before all sudden,
Speaker: It just stops. What the hell is going on? Right. And it's just just it's just calm. It's quiet. There's nothing really going on. Quiet. You know, they're talking, they're doing stuff, but there's nothing really going on. And all sudden, boom, it hits. Yeah. Yeah. yeah um And how I would use that ah in in in game is you can have big combat scenes and and have a moment where you can let your players talk about it.
Speaker: Let your players sort of... take a breath. Yeah. It's just like with horror. Like, like Mike Mason said, you can't just have scream, scream, scream. You'll have to have a moment of levity. You have to have a moment of peace before you can bring in more violence. I found the best way to do this is minor, minor, minor violence, minor violence, minor violence, you know, some tension, some tension, some drama.
Speaker: um And then the, but the whole way that I feel that this works best is when you have that calm before the storm, you're still, you're in the eye of the storm now. And now this is where the players are. They're not planning.
Speaker: don't don't Don't do planning. Don't do anything like that. Just have them have those vulnerable moments. Where they're talking about something else, something completely random or so completely. And they're just they're just having those little moments in character, in character, though. Yeah. Yes. In character. And they're just talking about, you know, oh, man, you know, they like, oh, man, my my mother used to knit. Maybe a character holding something like a doll to something, something completely not violent.
Speaker: not, you know, confrontations or something just kind of going through. Maybe have that little comedic type thing where somebody's doing something is just just take, take, take the breath up.
Speaker: And then that way, when it goes in that, that, that typical thing somewhere at some point, someone says, here it comes. yeah So you let them dictate.
Speaker: Yeah, here it comes. And then now they're back to it. That's a good group because you don't always have that good group. That's going to do that. No, no. One way that I can, I can see working that in is, is sort of not to, not to force that those moments. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: But one thing you can do, like here's the another example from the movie, ah The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, is there's like a five minute shot where the the good, the bad, and the ugly, where the three the three characters are just staring each other down.
Speaker: And we take that moment to sort of just with a quiet Ennio Morricone piece, and we're looking at them, and the tension's building in the music. How I do that as a GM, as a storyteller, is I would take a moment to describe the scene.
Speaker: And I would do it and I would slow down. And I would say... So you look on the battlefield, the dust is settling. You can see clouds of it here and there.
Speaker: The sun has finally broken through the clouds and where the beams of light shine through the, you can see where the dust is floating. it It almost looks like a painting of God with this brief moment where the the sun is shining through the, through the dark clouds that have been plaguing you all morning.
Speaker: And for just a moment, for just a moment, you can, you can, you can breathe. And, and yeah I would even, I mean, I know this is so silly, but I would even take this as an opportunity to do a a small minor, like mindful meditation with my players and say, just breathe and let them just breathe in, breathe out because you know what's coming.
Speaker: Yeah. yeah and and And take pauses and do and create that scene like in the good, the bad and the ugly. And then hit him. And then hit him. And then just, boom, the explosion goes off nearby. Someone screams in the distance and the gunfire starts roll for initiative.
Speaker: Yeah. Like said, and you have that moment because it's always there where it's the pause. And then somewhere, whether it's whether it's a player or you, or, you know, when I say know the GM, an NPC, there's always that moment, the trigger, where it's the equivalent of here they come.
Speaker: Yeah. It's quiet. Yeah. Yeah. fly it Yeah. Star Wars, Star Wars, where they're moving, they're they're going out. Like, you know it, you know, you know what's coming and it's just the people getting into formation.
Speaker: So now you see all the poor bastards are going to die. Yeah. And they're all like, Oh, I'm in in position, in position, in position. And they're going, they're all getting there. And, the command center and they're all getting ready and all this.
Speaker: Maybe you flip over and it's the other side and they're, they're, to you know, ah but you know, but that also, to me, it also feels so too much like on the ticking clock. It is little ticking clock, but you can, but I think you can incorporate that. I think you incorporate, but I think, I think the point, the point of this is calm before you hit them with some, some major action, hit them with something else to not to distract them, not to, not to confuse them.
Speaker: No, but, to understand peace so you can understand violence. Exactly. Yeah. um Another, another one I have here just want to keep moving. um yeah Rule of three. Now this is one that's not just, it's in all design.
Speaker: ah Like the number three is a magical number and the, the concept yes principle behind it is it's, it's a classic comedy structure. The third beat of a pattern is usually where the payoff is. Most songs you'll listen to have three verses, three choruses. Yes. Right.
Speaker: um And where this hits. and And hello, Mr. Spielberg. Thank you again. Indiana Jones and Last Crusade. So yeah there's two ways. There's two good ways to look at the rule of three is um is to um create or or to initialize, to and ah to reinforce and then to to prove. Right. Yeah. Oh, or.
Speaker: to to initiate, to reinforce and then to to disprove. So the example from from um Indiana Jones and Last Crusade, he had the three the three trials.
Speaker: And the first trial, again, it was logic you know it was logic. It had to do with understanding the language of of the ah whatever. The ah second trial was, again, another logical conclusion.
Speaker: And the third one was the leap of faith. And it was completely different than the the first two. And the only way to pass it was to just... forget logic and to move and to move forward anyway.
Speaker: Right. Do you remember it was like he you had to step into the, into the the dark void and, and, and not fall. Right. And right so that's, I mean, whereas, whereas an example, like another, another place where this, this shows up, i don't know if you've got an example that you can think of off the top of your head or.
Speaker: well cause for me, this, this also ties in well with like Chekhov's gun. Hmm. you know, um for example, together, there's no, yes. now For example, I, cause I, I had to, please don't don't, don't, don't, don't crucify me audience, please. I had to watch it. I just, I had to watch, I love horrible movies. I do. um We watched that new mortal combat.
Speaker: Oh, I hear it's much better than the first one. I hear it's way better than the first one. But ed let's say we're not a movie topic. Yeah, let's let's let's move on. um Is it bad? it yeah Anyway, moving on. But Johnny Cage has his sunglasses.
Speaker: And it's like it's a catch thing, right? Like, he has it, and as soon as he puts it on, he's not just an actor. Now he is that character, you know? That's a thing. It's it's a motif that he uses throughout the thing. So in the beginning, you know, it's it's a gag in the beginning, but towards the end, it's not a gag. It's like, this is boom. No, I am i am that fighter.
Speaker: And so how yeah it goes with this, like you see it and it's in the beginning. You introduce it, you reinforce it, and then you and then you prove it or disprove it. Yes, exactly. um Yeah. So for me, again, i don't really I don't really like to use this in game. I think, is is i think again, it's it's a good mechanic to to just sort of when you're designing. yeah It's not really something I can think of a good example of how to use in game other than what we've already talked about in the sense of like, re like reintroducing the ticking clock or reintroducing the the Chekhov's gun.
Speaker: But the idea being that, again, the three trials, like if you if you if you want to structure your story, look, at i mean, Princess Bride, I love this. I love the Princess Bride. He he climbs the the cliffs of insanity.
Speaker: um You know, he he he he he has to fight Inigo in in ego and the sword fight, and then he comes up against Vizzini in the test of wills or whatever. Yes. And so it's like, bam, bam, bam.
Speaker: Yeah. You know, and it repeats. It's in it it's almost everything. So, again, that was one maybe we, if you can think of some good examples of how you can use it in story, like, please throw out an example or or we can move on to to another example here.
Speaker: ah for For me, um ah it's ah in um in ETU. I wanted to establish that there are spoilers, um ah that there are two cults.
Speaker: okay competing in your game. Yes. ah Competing for or dominance of the campus for their, for opposing reasons. Yeah. And ah so it's, it's, it's about introducing those enemies and then bringing them up again.
Speaker: bring them up again. They don't have to be the focal point, but sometimes they are the focal point for, for an episode. Um, and then, and then, yeah, eventually maybe then they appear at least twice before the big yes appearance. Yeah. Yes.
Speaker: So yeah. Makes sense. Makes sense. yeah Um, but false False victory is my next one. And false victory is very very much, I don't use this very often, but it's a great storytelling tool.
Speaker: An example that I can think of off top my head is is Empire Strikes Back, which in itself is a false victory movie. Like, it's very much like the, the i when I think of movies, I think i think of like,
Speaker: Oh, okay. I see. Okay. That kind of false victory. I'm sorry. Yes. So we, we watched them as trying to escape cloud city only to be captured when they get, when they get to the victory point. Yes.
Speaker: Right. We think, Oh yeah, they finally made it and then hit them hard with like, ha, you just fell into the, Right. um Example that you have here is ah Aliens. where Ripley is she's she's she's battled through all this stuff and she's getting to the dropship. And then finally gets away. The queen shows up. Yes. Like, are you kidding me? um Those are good. The kind of false victories that I just I i can't stand them as um the movie The Descent.
Speaker: Where they go in the caves and that chick goes through so much crap. And then it looks like she got out. the Yeah. the The reveal that it was all a dream or the reveal that it was all. Oh, she's still in the caves. She never got out.
Speaker: No. It's like, for me, it's like, no. Don't do that to your players. I'm talking about the big, I'm talking about the, just when, just when they think they've, they've, they've, they've succeeded. Yes. Give them one more battle. Yes.
Speaker: Yes. Especially very often. Cause then again, we're training our players not to trust us. And we write we want to keep that trust. But the fun part can always be where you're telegraphing.
Speaker: you're told Because they did. If you think about it, he telegraphed it. You knew she was coming. You knew she was coming because she broke herself free from the egg sack. So you know she's coming. It's just a matter of when. And that was Ridley Scott this time. We're not we're not we're we're off Spielberg. and Although Spielberg did have a hand in in some of the Star Wars stuff. Yeah. It was, we're not just, is this whole episode isn't sponsored by Steve. ha ha But yeah, but you know, so when they get to that point where like, or if a player, especially when a player, I love it. When the player is like, they're going, they're going, they're going. Someone says, oh, you know, he's behind that door, right?
Speaker: And of course you do as a player, as a GM, you know, yes, he's absolutely correct. Yes. And then, and it's like, yeah other when they get to it and they're like, there' so cause I love it when players does that. When a player, I have no problem with players calling me out me and being like, look at me going, oh man, he's behind that damn door, isn't he? And just smile say, yes, he is. Damn it. you initiative Oh, and all kind of stuff. Yeah. I love that i love it. Yes. um And then the last one I have, i'm just, i you know, I just want to, I just want to go on. So this one's an interesting one.
Speaker: This is a hard one. No, but it's, But if you can make it if you can make it work, it's a great one. i think i think I think I have, and I don't want to give an example. Okay.
Speaker: That's fine. Because I don't want to give any spoilers for games that were planned. So, a Unreliable Narrator is exactly a literary device, and it's often used as the narrator of the story. So, the examples, obviously... is Is the usual suspects is a great example of this. Fight club. Fight club is a great example of this. ah The sixth sense.
Speaker: the Through that whole thing. Yeah. You think that he, Bruce Willis, knows what's going on. He's just trying to help this kid. And then you find out, no, it's the kid is helping him.
Speaker: So, again, another one of those ones where you want to be careful Yes. For building and and destroying the trust of your players. But let's say, for example, there's an NPC. You come across this NPC. You've you've you've come across the the remnants of ah of a great of a great battle or of some sort of ah slaughter. And you find this NPC ah beaten, covered in blood, barely breathing, and you and you and you and you you know provide medicine or you provide aid, and they and they come and they tell you
Speaker: that like the the the the bad guys the bad guys have gone into this cave and they've gone in and they're trying to get the amulet and if if you don't you don't stop them they're going to be impossible to stop like you have to go in there and you have to go get the amulet and I know a way to to defeat them if you can bring me that amulet oh no no no no no don't i have them bring them don't say he'll bring it to me unless he's really hurt well I mean no if they trust this this this exact unreliable narrator right or Or, you know, can you help me defeat this guy? Like, it's the only way we're going to stop him.
Speaker: Yes. You know? Yes. uh yeah yep and then turn on no no he he is yeah he is the bad guy um i i love i love those though those are those are those are good use them sparingly use them rarely but use yeah because it it it can be difficult to pull off especially in an rpg can be difficult you can't pull this off yeah yeah because your players are always going to be looking for that They will. They will afterwards it because it's like, yeah. yeah or Or as a GM, once you've done this
Speaker: It would behoove you to... end of the same yeah you wall Or two if they start looking at you, give that side eye. you know Just be like, look, as your GM, I'm telling you this this is the truth.
Speaker: Things like that. It's it's okay. But don't do that if it's not the truth. And you will definitely destroy your trust. Yeah. Oh, God, yeah. But no, but the um the unreliable narrator, if you can pull it off, it is it is the payoff is phenomenal. Especially when they do things like, I'm going to roll like an insight check. i'm going to roll I'm going to roll the sense deception or whatever.
Speaker: And, and they fail. And then call Cthulhu was amazing for this because in call Cthulhu, you can have them doing some off the wall stuff, you know, and then turn around and just have it shift to where they're doing just mundane crap.
Speaker: um ah You have, ah ah you're you're like the haunting, because I know you and I both run it. We love doing that. Where, like, the an example, because I remember you did it with the kitchen scene.
Speaker: where there's water and the person's getting a drink of water. And then oh my god and after they saw the disgusting pot of, of, of rotten food in the yeah dining room and they're like, Oh my God, and they go throw up in the sink and they need something. So they reach for that, that glass that's sitting on the counter. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. And the other players turn around, watch them. Their eyes are wide of terror and drinking like sewage out of a rust sludge. He's just drinking sludge. you know And when you describe it to the other players and that character that's drinking the water is like, wait. Right. But the way to make that scene really good is you spend a few minutes.
Speaker: Yeah. Like, well, okay. Cause that's what i love to do is like, they're, they're in the kitchen. They're getting that glass of water and I just have them go through the boring couple of boring details, couple of minutes of them. What are you doing in the wall? I'm checking this. well exactly. Exactly.
Speaker: Break it down for us. In your head, what does that look like? You know, just drinking the water, relaxing. This is relaxing for your character, whatever. And you're kind of going through it. And then you have one of the player characters come by and you tell that player character that walked in, hey, give me a sanity check real quick. Don't worry, I'm going to give it to him too in just a second.
Speaker: And they're like, why? Well, just give me a sanity check and I'll tell you. And they're like, and then they make the roll and they pass. Okay, great. So in this case, you're the unreliable narrator, which is really Oh, absolutely. Because they're being played by the... And then if they pass or fail, if they pass, okay, great. So you're not freaking the fact that he has a nasty glass in his hand. He's drinking black sludge. rusty can. And there's sludge all over his mouth and it's dripped onto his shirt. And the water's still going... Yeah, blah, blah. And then the victim goes, wait, what?
Speaker: and like Yeah, yeah. Give me sanity check. player player one explains player Player two explains player one. ah Oh my God, what the hell are you doing? And then pop reality sets in.
Speaker: And then, okay, give me that sandwich. And then hear the voice saying, get out of my house. No, no, that comes later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, yeah, yeah, unreliable. If you could do it to pay off as a banked house. All of these, if you could pull off these, and these are excellent, James. like these, yeah. It was a topic that, and we could do more of this. Like, it's funny, I asked James.
Speaker: you know, James Gordon, Ross, I was like, Hey bud, do you want to come on and do this? Cause I know you're a screenwriter. Like that's what he does. And he, and he said, I'm busy. I'm busy on on the day you're recording it, which is probably for the best because I could do like a a five hour lecture on this topic. So maybe, no maybe we'll do a 201 and we'll just have them back. Yeah. You know, like, you know, we'll do a film craft for GMing, you know. Oh, absolutely. That could be fun to bring someone on for that and just have them give give us a half hour, i mean especially if if we could find someone that could break down.
Speaker: you know, we got seven here and we flew through them. Yeah. and And there was a lot on my list that I started with that I was like, no, no, this is too many. all the i think Let's narrow it down. And we're already at a 45 minute episode. Well, you know, hey, James, if our audience has examples oh yeah of, oh, hey, you missed this or here's another example. How can they find us?
Speaker: ah Well, you could always join us on our um our Patreon, which is patreon.com forward slash good GM's podcast. ah No, yes, yes. You could also find us on YouTube. Join us. um we're we're You know what? If you're watching this on YouTube right now, ah you know make sure you follow. Give us a like. Give us a comment. If you're listening to this on on our po any podcast provider, you know give us give us ah do us a rating. like like It really helps promote what we're doing. But make a comment. Say, you know, like like we got this one five-star review on one of our platforms and I loved it. It was like, you know, these guys weren't awful to listen to, which is the best I can you know say. they they They seem like they they act like they know everything, but they're pretty they're pretty knowledgeable in the end. I'm like, that's a five-star review, but thank you, whoever like. Thank you. Appreciate it.
Speaker: I try not to come across as pompous. That's why we're good GMs, not perfect GMs. The only way we become good GMs is by listening to other GMs. Exactly. So if you like you're a good GM, join us. um Please. Yeah, and check out our check out our our Patreon. Join our Patreon so you can join our Discord and and have more great conversations like the ones we're having here today.
Speaker: um But to otherwise, continue to to get gooder. You got any last good piece of advice? You always have some... some ah ah Remember, if your GM looks you in the eyes and says, are you sure you want to do that?
Speaker: Take a breath. There you go. Have a good one, guys. Thanks so much. Thank you for watching. If you like or dislike what you heard, let us know.
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Speaker: For now, I'm E.E. Morris, and you're all good GMs.
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