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Ep 119: Expo 23 Pre Show and Top 5
43 Plays2 years ago
Venom, Stranger Things, Expo 23, Top 5 current games, and what we love about pinball is some of the highlights we talk about this episode
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
This is episode 119.
00:00:10
Speaker
I am Josh Roop.
00:00:12
Speaker
With me, my co-captain, as always.
00:00:14
Speaker
Scott Larson.
Pinball Expo Rumors and Excitement
00:00:15
Speaker
And Scott, it is, Expo is right around the corner.
00:00:18
Speaker
There's rumors of new games being revealed.
00:00:20
Speaker
If you want these games, who are you going to call?
00:00:23
Speaker
Well, I'm going to call Zach and Nicole Mini, just like I did when I ordered my...
00:00:29
Speaker
pinball alley sign.
00:00:30
Speaker
Nice.
00:00:31
Speaker
Yes.
00:00:32
Speaker
Stern pop bumper sign.
00:00:33
Speaker
Yes.
00:00:34
Speaker
So I ordered both of those and I'm super excited to get them downstairs.
00:00:37
Speaker
I actually have wanted, I wanted the old version of the pinball alley sign.
00:00:42
Speaker
This one's even cooler.
00:00:43
Speaker
This one is cool.
00:00:44
Speaker
And this one actually is open to the fans because before you had to be a dealer to get the pinball alley sign.
00:00:50
Speaker
Yep.
00:00:51
Speaker
So, and actually that old pinball alley sign was like $3,000.
00:00:55
Speaker
Well, and this is 2000 and honestly, one of the toppers that have gone down in price.
00:01:01
Speaker
If it's a, if you want a five foot topper, I'm like, do you want a Mando topper?
00:01:04
Speaker
Do you want the stern alley pinball sign?
00:01:07
Speaker
I would say it looks really cool.
00:01:09
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:09
Speaker
I will say the stern one, the, uh, the Mando one's still pretty cool.
00:01:13
Speaker
I know that's how cool the sign is.
00:01:14
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:01:15
Speaker
This it's huge.
00:01:17
Speaker
So, yep, I would contact Zach and Nicole Minnie at Flippin' Out Pinball.
00:01:20
Speaker
They're always good.
00:01:22
Speaker
Good to hook you.
00:01:23
Speaker
I agree.
Feedback from the Bragg Brothers Interview
00:01:24
Speaker
So, Scott, it's been kind of it's been a really good two weeks.
00:01:28
Speaker
We just did the we're coming off the Bragg Brothers interview.
00:01:31
Speaker
Right.
00:01:31
Speaker
Which had an amazing response.
00:01:34
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:35
Speaker
First off, they came huge.
00:01:37
Speaker
Yes.
00:01:38
Speaker
They were engaging.
00:01:39
Speaker
They were really easy to talk to.
00:01:41
Speaker
And so any credit we get goes with having excellent guests.
00:01:46
Speaker
So I appreciate them coming on and taking the human side.
00:01:49
Speaker
I don't know if I read this to you.
00:01:50
Speaker
I don't know if Roger will be mad at me.
00:01:52
Speaker
Oh, go ahead.
00:01:54
Speaker
It's hilarious.
00:01:54
Speaker
Let me pull up an email that we got from Roger because Roger didn't know this was happening.
00:02:01
Speaker
I actually want to get Roger back on.
00:02:03
Speaker
Because now that we've both had time to see the movie a few times, it would be interesting to dissect it with them.
00:02:09
Speaker
It says Scott, Josh, Meredith, and Austin just spent a little over an hour being entertained by you all smiles on my faces and a wonderful surprise.
00:02:20
Speaker
Thank you.
00:02:21
Speaker
Thankfully, one of the highlight highlighted items in this week in pinball, because why wouldn't my son, Josh ever let me know that something was going to be aired?
00:02:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:30
Speaker
I just love the jab right at Josh.
00:02:34
Speaker
I'm glad it's not just us.
00:02:35
Speaker
It's his dad, too.
00:02:37
Speaker
You know what?
00:02:37
Speaker
Josh is actually one of the funniest guys I've ever met.
00:02:40
Speaker
And he's really good at returning the jab.
00:02:44
Speaker
So I appreciate that.
00:02:46
Speaker
That put a huge smile on my face.
00:02:49
Speaker
Anyways, just want to send a shout out.
00:02:50
Speaker
Take care.
00:02:51
Speaker
Meet the very much older Mr. Sharp.
00:02:53
Speaker
Yes.
00:02:54
Speaker
It was great to get that.
00:02:55
Speaker
I mean, we've received more feedback on this episode than probably...
00:02:59
Speaker
For a while, yeah.
00:03:01
Speaker
Besides the Carrie Hardy episode, which we got a lot of feedback on as well.
00:03:05
Speaker
But it was a lot, not a single positive or not a single negative.
00:03:08
Speaker
Not a single positive.
00:03:10
Speaker
One star.
00:03:11
Speaker
But there was people that reached out and said they don't typically like the interview styles because they feel they're too cliche.
00:03:18
Speaker
And they felt like this was very, just very raw and smooth.
00:03:22
Speaker
And just they were impressed with how we were able to get the directors just like just talking with friends.
00:03:27
Speaker
Right.
00:03:27
Speaker
They were again, they were they were great interviewees.
00:03:32
Speaker
So we feel very honored that they came on.
00:03:35
Speaker
amazing insight to the movie, which, which was a great, it's a great companion because a lot of times when you watch a movie, you're not really sure what you're going to get.
Pinball Documentaries and Industry History
00:03:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:46
Speaker
And I would say everybody in pinball is still a little gun shy on anything that shines light on the hobby just because I mean, come on a special when lit it,
00:03:59
Speaker
it highlighted the oddities in the hobby to, and that's to put it, that's to put it kindly.
00:04:06
Speaker
I think it's free on, it's free on something right now.
00:04:08
Speaker
Cause I went back through it and you're right.
00:04:10
Speaker
It does kind of make us look like it.
00:04:13
Speaker
Well, it's, it seems like it's making a, making any fan look foolish.
00:04:17
Speaker
And yeah, if you have, if you have editorial control, then that seems a very vindictive thing to do.
00:04:28
Speaker
when you're interviewing someone sincerely and then you portray them in a negative light.
00:04:33
Speaker
I don't know if it's necessarily that,
00:04:37
Speaker
I can see it poorly, but it almost is like you got the most oddballs, not most oddballs.
00:04:42
Speaker
Let me apologize.
00:04:43
Speaker
You got some more of the unique personalities when we've had so many more enter into the hobby as of late.
00:04:49
Speaker
I mean, this was recorded in 2009.
00:04:50
Speaker
This is before ACDC.
00:04:53
Speaker
This is before the resurgence.
00:04:56
Speaker
And even Steve Ritchie, after that movie was brought out, he kind of was, you know, everyone felt like pinball was in a decline.
00:05:02
Speaker
Like it was not pinball was on life support.
00:05:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:07
Speaker
And it had a D it had a do not resuscitate label on it.
00:05:11
Speaker
Yes.
00:05:11
Speaker
And it really was hurting.
00:05:13
Speaker
There was some glimpses.
00:05:14
Speaker
You've got Spider-Man in that era.
00:05:15
Speaker
You've got was Iron Man around that time.
00:05:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:19
Speaker
So I, okay.
00:05:20
Speaker
So I actually did pull this up right before.
00:05:22
Speaker
So if you look at, okay, let's just say past Lord of the Rings.
00:05:28
Speaker
Okay.
00:05:29
Speaker
So I would say Lord of the Rings was definitely a high point in two thousands.
00:05:34
Speaker
Right.
00:05:35
Speaker
Okay.
00:05:35
Speaker
So,
00:05:37
Speaker
How many of these do you want to Lord of the Rings followed by Ripley's, believe it or not.
00:05:43
Speaker
It's actually a sleeper.
00:05:44
Speaker
That one is good.
00:05:45
Speaker
I'm not going to lie.
00:05:46
Speaker
You don't want to own it.
00:05:47
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:05:47
Speaker
You don't.
00:05:48
Speaker
Well, for the price, it's maybe not the price is commanding now, but maybe two years ago.
00:05:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:52
Speaker
Elvis Sopranos, Grand Prix, NASCAR, world poker tour, pirates of the Caribbean, which is, which is good.
00:05:59
Speaker
I own that one.
00:06:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:01
Speaker
Dale jr. Family guy, Spider-Man owned that one wheel of fortune, Indiana Jones, Batman, the dark night, Shrek, CSI 24 NBA, big buck hunter pro.
00:06:14
Speaker
And then Iron Man is in 2010.
00:06:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:17
Speaker
Okay, so we're right there at the cusp.
00:06:19
Speaker
But it's still pre-ACDC because I would really say ACDC was a turning point.
00:06:23
Speaker
Well, ACDC was actually the turning point and we'll get to that until later.
00:06:27
Speaker
Because after Iron Man, you have Avatar, Rolling Stones.
00:06:31
Speaker
Then you start the baby turn with Tron.
00:06:33
Speaker
Yeah, yep.
00:06:35
Speaker
And then Transformers.
00:06:36
Speaker
And then you really jump back onto the scene with ACDC.
00:06:40
Speaker
So it certainly was
00:06:45
Speaker
a business in crisis, a hobby in crisis.
00:06:50
Speaker
It really was.
00:06:50
Speaker
If you want to check out the movie yourself is on to be T U B I, you can check it out for free.
00:06:56
Speaker
No extra skin off your nose.
00:06:57
Speaker
Give us your opinion.
00:06:58
Speaker
Because I do, like I said, I think the problem was is like they're at the beginning.
00:07:03
Speaker
It even starts going through these people.
00:07:04
Speaker
They're like, well, I own 50 machines.
00:07:06
Speaker
And the one's like, I own 200 machines.
00:07:08
Speaker
And then there's like at one point, guys, like I own 1900 machines.
00:07:12
Speaker
And they're all kind of just like in a garage stacked up on top of each other.
00:07:15
Speaker
Right.
00:07:16
Speaker
And I mean, like I said, there's some highs and lows in that movie.
00:07:23
Speaker
It's a very unique look at pinball.
00:07:26
Speaker
And it's funny because I was talking to some higher-ups in the industry, and I said, hey, someone should do an updated documentary because the worst special one ended.
00:07:37
Speaker
It showed the graveyard.
00:07:41
Speaker
It was the dead pins in some sort of field, like forest.
00:07:47
Speaker
It was super depressing.
00:07:49
Speaker
Their recommendation was don't do it.
00:07:52
Speaker
Well, because I think they got burned.
00:07:55
Speaker
I'm sorry, you did.
00:07:56
Speaker
And, okay, we've all said it before that you and I have said the great thing about pinball is it is a place for everybody.
00:08:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:08
Speaker
You know, regardless of religion, regardless of politics, regardless of...
00:08:13
Speaker
Gender orientation, color, et cetera.
00:08:17
Speaker
Like this is something that we can all just say, Hey, we are different.
00:08:21
Speaker
Let's play pinball.
00:08:22
Speaker
And it's a very chill hobby for the most part too.
00:08:24
Speaker
For the most part there, there are some, some, some drama trolls.
00:08:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:30
Speaker
Some flare ups here and there.
00:08:31
Speaker
But for the most part, I would say people are very welcoming.
00:08:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:36
Speaker
I agree.
00:08:37
Speaker
So that it's, I'm,
00:08:40
Speaker
I'm sad that the, the most positive now it's been years since I've seen the show, but the most positive part was, I believe it's the orange County pinball where it talked about, they basically converted to a private collection.
00:08:52
Speaker
They had Lee, that was a very positive part because it showed people who are passionate and I, I, I'm a little weird.
00:09:00
Speaker
Okay.
00:09:01
Speaker
So I, I'm sure if they interviewed me, I'd come off as, as very bizarre.
00:09:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:06
Speaker
But it,
00:09:08
Speaker
It did show a genuine enthusiasm for it.
00:09:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:13
Speaker
But, you know, so anyway, I think actually the Roger Sharp movie is the best thing they could do.
00:09:19
Speaker
Yes, 100%.
00:09:20
Speaker
More than a documentary on how pinballs got back.
00:09:23
Speaker
I agree.
00:09:24
Speaker
The Man Who Saved Pinball is a fantastic film.
00:09:27
Speaker
We rewatched it right before having the Brack Brothers on.
00:09:31
Speaker
If you have not watched it yet, what are you doing?
00:09:33
Speaker
It's on Amazon.
00:09:35
Speaker
It's on Vudu.
00:09:36
Speaker
Go rent it.
00:09:37
Speaker
It's on Hulu right
Live Events and Concert Experiences
00:09:38
Speaker
now.
00:09:38
Speaker
If you've got a subscription to Hulu, go watch it.
00:09:41
Speaker
It is amazing.
00:09:42
Speaker
It truly is.
00:09:44
Speaker
Well, I got a list of stuff.
00:09:45
Speaker
Let's get going on it.
00:09:47
Speaker
I know it's not on my list, but I just remembered about two weeks ago, a week ago, I went out to see a concert.
00:09:55
Speaker
I went to go see New Found Glory and All American Rejects, Motion City Soundtrack, and The Get Up Kids.
00:10:01
Speaker
I had very little time.
00:10:02
Speaker
So I had 30 minutes before the concert.
00:10:04
Speaker
I stopped by, found a Venom Pro,
Venom Pro Pinball Machine Review
00:10:07
Speaker
played it.
00:10:07
Speaker
I got to tell you, this game is like the epitome of a 90s Williams game.
00:10:13
Speaker
Okay.
00:10:13
Speaker
Maybe not.
00:10:14
Speaker
It might be minus the mechs.
00:10:16
Speaker
The premium might be more that way.
00:10:17
Speaker
When I say epitome, a 90s game, it's fan layout.
00:10:21
Speaker
The rules are pretty much like,
00:10:23
Speaker
stack the stuff and do the one thing like reminds me of monster bash where you follow the column.
00:10:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:28
Speaker
Like you, you try to line up all the monsters and then you set them all off at one time, ending on Frankenstein.
00:10:33
Speaker
So you can just destroy the game.
00:10:35
Speaker
Right.
00:10:36
Speaker
And I feel like fandoms very much that way as well.
00:10:38
Speaker
You do the things you stall out of multi ball.
00:10:40
Speaker
You can actually hold off on your multi ball, more balls.
00:10:43
Speaker
You got the more your, your score goes up.
00:10:46
Speaker
Really fun game.
00:10:48
Speaker
My overall consensus right now,
00:10:52
Speaker
It's not a game I'd want in my collection.
00:10:54
Speaker
And maybe it's because it's got safe progress.
00:10:57
Speaker
So it's more convincing to go out onto location, play it on location, and I can store my progress.
00:11:04
Speaker
And I'm not spending money on a machine or moving something out of my collection that I'm not ready to leave yet, right?
00:11:09
Speaker
Plus the code's still early.
00:11:11
Speaker
I kind of want to see what Dwight does.
00:11:13
Speaker
Dwight, it seems like if you've never owned a Dwight game, I've only had people.
00:11:17
Speaker
You have to wait.
00:11:18
Speaker
Well, not only that, it kind of seems like the code shifts.
00:11:21
Speaker
It's almost entirely different game from where it begins to where it ends.
00:11:24
Speaker
And it can have a big reboot in the middle.
00:11:27
Speaker
Correct.
00:11:28
Speaker
So the skeleton stays the same, but the muscles get beefed up, right?
00:11:31
Speaker
Like you go from Scarny kid to buff kid.
00:11:33
Speaker
So it really is a fun game.
00:11:36
Speaker
Like,
00:11:37
Speaker
Great on you, Eddie.
00:11:38
Speaker
Great on you, Dwight.
00:11:38
Speaker
And everyone in the team that did Venom.
00:11:41
Speaker
I feel bad because I feel like this game just has stalled out, right?
00:11:45
Speaker
And it's only been out for a month.
00:11:47
Speaker
And I really think people should go out, give it a chance.
00:11:50
Speaker
You're only spending a couple bucks.
00:11:51
Speaker
Do your two for three, whatever it is.
00:11:54
Speaker
Go play this game.
00:11:55
Speaker
Get an opinion of it.
00:11:56
Speaker
I enjoyed it.
00:11:57
Speaker
Like I said, I still don't think it's for my collection, but not every game is.
00:12:01
Speaker
I still would be interested in
00:12:06
Speaker
I would be more interested if there were premiums on location saying that that's the challenge is that I, the game is significantly different between the pro and the premium because the ball paths change.
00:12:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:21
Speaker
And you have iron maiden behind you iron maiden between pro and premium.
00:12:26
Speaker
It's pretty much the same layout.
00:12:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:30
Speaker
Even you could argue Avengers,
00:12:36
Speaker
You could argue Avengers Infinity Quest is pretty much the same game except for the subway and the Captain Marvel shot.
00:12:45
Speaker
But everything else is pretty much there.
00:12:48
Speaker
You're not going to get the different ball paths on the pro.
00:12:53
Speaker
It is what it is.
00:12:54
Speaker
And so that's why I would really still like to play a premium to fully assess the game.
00:13:04
Speaker
However, this may be the first game that actually thrives on location in that people are able to save their progress because no other game does that right now.
00:13:18
Speaker
So this is a risk.
00:13:20
Speaker
We've talked about it.
00:13:21
Speaker
This is a risk for Stern.
00:13:22
Speaker
It's a different layout.
00:13:25
Speaker
It's a more simple layout, I mean, but it does have that option that people may want that second coin drop.
00:13:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:36
Speaker
I agree.
00:13:37
Speaker
Speaking of Eddie games, stranger things was just announced that they vaulted on Tuesday.
Stranger Things Pinball Discussion
00:13:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:43
Speaker
It doesn't seem like there's much difference from the original to what they have now.
00:13:46
Speaker
Right.
00:13:47
Speaker
Well, there is a difference between the original and this one.
00:13:50
Speaker
What's that?
00:13:51
Speaker
It's $2,000 more.
00:13:52
Speaker
That is true.
00:13:52
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:13:57
Speaker
Well, even the pro, what did the pro come out at?
00:14:01
Speaker
I don't remember, but it was.
00:14:03
Speaker
Keep going.
00:14:03
Speaker
But do you think, obviously they're trying to meet a demand, right?
00:14:07
Speaker
Like we saw during COVID how much of demand there was for this game.
00:14:12
Speaker
Do you think it cooled off too much?
00:14:15
Speaker
Do you think it was still smart to remake this?
00:14:17
Speaker
Yes, it was smart to remake it.
00:14:20
Speaker
it takes very limited resources.
00:14:25
Speaker
If they're able to renew the license, they're able to, to spit some out.
00:14:28
Speaker
How long did they spit out Star Trek?
00:14:31
Speaker
It was like every year they're like, Hey, and new and new Star Trek's coming out.
00:14:36
Speaker
So they, they can kick out 200, 300 with stranger things.
00:14:43
Speaker
Who knows?
00:14:44
Speaker
How many do you think they're going to make a thousand?
00:14:46
Speaker
How many, like there's maybe, but yeah,
00:14:49
Speaker
If they have the parts and they just need to manufacture those, they can put it online to fill a need.
00:14:55
Speaker
And we have talked to them before about in the Williams days, it was like, hey, just run it until it dies.
00:15:01
Speaker
And then you swap it.
00:15:03
Speaker
And that's pretty much the run.
00:15:05
Speaker
Stern's current model is that you can plug it back in if the demand's there.
00:15:10
Speaker
And the demand was obviously there.
00:15:14
Speaker
Was there enough demand to warrant how many they're making?
00:15:18
Speaker
I don't know.
00:15:20
Speaker
They're also, this does cost basically almost $2,000 more.
00:15:24
Speaker
Yes.
00:15:25
Speaker
And you still have to buy the UV kit and install it.
00:15:31
Speaker
Yes.
00:15:34
Speaker
I would be more interested if the game came in a premium with the UV kit installed.
00:15:44
Speaker
Just because that it's also $2,000 and you add the $300 for that.
00:15:50
Speaker
That pushes it close to $10,000.
00:15:53
Speaker
Is it a $10,000 game?
00:15:55
Speaker
Maybe.
00:15:57
Speaker
Maybe for some.
00:15:59
Speaker
I still hold to the fact that I have Attack for Mars and that's not going anywhere because my kids won't let me.
00:16:06
Speaker
So I'm not going to have both of those in my collection.
00:16:09
Speaker
But there are people who really love Stranger Things and they want that theme.
00:16:15
Speaker
Okay, so when I originally released, the Pro was $6,100, which now it's $7,000.
00:16:20
Speaker
So $900 isn't, like, I mean.
00:16:23
Speaker
Not too much.
00:16:25
Speaker
You can really chalk that up to inflation.
00:16:27
Speaker
Yeah, that's inflation.
00:16:28
Speaker
I mean, everything else is inflated right now.
00:16:29
Speaker
When did this originally drop?
00:16:31
Speaker
December 30th, 2019 is when the original.
00:16:34
Speaker
Four years ago, yeah.
00:16:35
Speaker
So four years ago.
00:16:36
Speaker
Okay, premium, $7,700 versus now it's $9,700.
00:16:40
Speaker
So you're right.
00:16:41
Speaker
It is $2,000 difference.
00:16:42
Speaker
It's $2,000.
00:16:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:44
Speaker
And a limited edition, $9,100.
00:16:46
Speaker
Wow.
00:16:46
Speaker
And if it was nowadays, it would be $13,000.
00:16:51
Speaker
Which, honestly, anyone will tell you the most moneymaker is the limited edition.
00:16:56
Speaker
Well, the most margin for them.
00:16:59
Speaker
Sorry.
00:16:59
Speaker
Yes.
00:16:59
Speaker
Most margin.
00:17:00
Speaker
Yes.
00:17:00
Speaker
Yes.
00:17:01
Speaker
But if you really take the premium, you take the projector out of it and the kinetic telekinetic magnet.
00:17:10
Speaker
Wait, you mean if you take the pro?
00:17:13
Speaker
What I'm saying, if you took the premium and you took that stuff out, you have the pro.
00:17:17
Speaker
I mean, there's really not much difference.
00:17:19
Speaker
So it's funny because... Don't get me wrong.
00:17:22
Speaker
I love the projector.
00:17:23
Speaker
I think the projector is amazing.
00:17:25
Speaker
I'm a big fan of Pinball 2000.
00:17:27
Speaker
It heralds back to that for me.
00:17:29
Speaker
I feel like they were... That Brian Eddy was trying to make the game he never was able to when Pinball 2000 came out.
00:17:37
Speaker
Probably, yeah.
00:17:38
Speaker
But I just... At this point, I had...
00:17:44
Speaker
what I say, 6,100 versus 77, $1,600 difference.
00:17:48
Speaker
I guess really it's only a $400 difference when it, when it first came out.
00:17:52
Speaker
I still just don't know if it's worth $2,000 difference now.
00:17:56
Speaker
I think it is to the right person.
00:17:58
Speaker
And there are still people who connect with this theme.
00:18:04
Speaker
I would say the theme has cooled off a little bit.
00:18:07
Speaker
I still have not seen stranger things.
00:18:10
Speaker
So I know I'm an outlier.
00:18:14
Speaker
But that's... It's selling... I would say it's selling well enough.
00:18:23
Speaker
Yes.
00:18:25
Speaker
I think there was enough for location and that's where they're going.
00:18:30
Speaker
Yes, it kills on location.
00:18:32
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:18:34
Speaker
Absolutely kills on location.
00:18:36
Speaker
I think, honestly... While I waited for Venom, I had...
00:18:42
Speaker
I stood in line and I played a stranger things cause no one was playing it.
00:18:46
Speaker
It is a really good game.
00:18:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:47
Speaker
It's attack from Mars ask.
00:18:50
Speaker
I will give it that I do the, enjoy the ramp.
00:18:52
Speaker
I do enjoy, I love the achievements now attached to it before that didn't have that right.
00:18:58
Speaker
It released in 2019.
00:19:00
Speaker
It was not insider connected, but if you, if you drop the, I don't know what's called the shield, the ramp, whatever it is.
00:19:07
Speaker
And you see the Demogorgon.
00:19:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:09
Speaker
And you kill it first shot, which you get right in the hole instead of hitting it on its lips or whatever it is.
00:19:14
Speaker
Did they fix it so you can get it in the hole?
00:19:17
Speaker
Yeah, I was able to.
00:19:19
Speaker
Okay, because that was one of the huge problems with the original is that you would get brick after brick.
00:19:25
Speaker
Yeah, so I got it, and it gives you an achievement called Hole in One.
00:19:29
Speaker
And so I thought that was pretty comical.
00:19:31
Speaker
I enjoyed that.
00:19:33
Speaker
I still don't understand the little launch thing on the left, similar to the catapult and minute of madness, but stuff coming all the way around and wrapping back to you.
00:19:42
Speaker
This shoots at the, the drop targets.
00:19:46
Speaker
And I don't know if it's pretty much just like, Oh, I ricocheted in there and this is my consequence.
00:19:51
Speaker
I can't remember if there's really any purpose to get into that hole versus just pure consequence of being in there.
00:19:59
Speaker
Other than that, I thought it was a good game.
00:20:01
Speaker
It's very, very fast.
00:20:02
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:20:04
Speaker
I would honestly, I don't know.
00:20:05
Speaker
I don't know if I'd want Stranger Things over Venom.
00:20:08
Speaker
I probably would want Stranger Things over Venom in my collection.
00:20:10
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:11
Speaker
And this is the problem.
00:20:12
Speaker
You have two eddie games that came out within a month of each other.
00:20:16
Speaker
One is a proven re-release.
00:20:21
Speaker
Yep.
00:20:21
Speaker
One of them is a new concept.
00:20:24
Speaker
So it's a little risky.
00:20:25
Speaker
Yep.
00:20:27
Speaker
But maybe Stern is playing the long game and Venom is a test case.
00:20:32
Speaker
They may see how it does.
00:20:34
Speaker
And even if they have to pivot with the initial production, if the license can't be that expensive, they could probably renew it and keep making that for a while.
00:20:46
Speaker
Well, do you want to know a dirty little secret if you've never noticed this?
00:20:51
Speaker
So when a designer or a coater, sorry, it's more of the coder than it is the designer.
00:20:56
Speaker
But when the coder slash designer is making their new game, they will take the base of their last game and they'll shift stuff around.
00:21:04
Speaker
They'll improve upon it.
00:21:06
Speaker
If you remember when James Bond came out last year, it was very early.
00:21:09
Speaker
It was like 0.6 code, right?
00:21:11
Speaker
But it was Lonnie Ropp who was doing the code on that.
00:21:15
Speaker
And the last thing he had done was Stranger Things.
00:21:18
Speaker
It still had the Stranger Things
00:21:21
Speaker
Yeah, it did.
00:21:23
Speaker
And so that was unfortunate.
00:21:26
Speaker
So my point being is, is when you're getting, when you're getting a Godzilla, you're essentially getting Avengers, Jurassic Park and Iron Maiden, all the codes all there for that.
00:21:37
Speaker
but it's being shifted around.
00:21:38
Speaker
It's being approved upon.
00:21:39
Speaker
It's being molded into a new pot, right?
00:21:41
Speaker
Like the scaffolding's there and they're just moving walls.
00:21:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:45
Speaker
Correct.
00:21:46
Speaker
So, so Venom where I'm going with this, sorry.
00:21:50
Speaker
Venom, I think is always going to be now a Dwight thing where it has experience points built into the code.
00:21:58
Speaker
I could be wrong.
00:21:58
Speaker
I could, they could be like, no, we're never doing that again.
00:22:01
Speaker
They could,
00:22:03
Speaker
I think they will.
00:22:05
Speaker
That drives people to location and makes people say, hey, I don't have to start from scratch every time.
00:22:13
Speaker
You get that with modern gamers.
00:22:15
Speaker
That's what they're trying to go after, right?
00:22:17
Speaker
Yep.
00:22:18
Speaker
You're getting at the people who want to build the experience.
00:22:21
Speaker
So they put all this into Venom.
00:22:24
Speaker
So now that system has been built.
00:22:26
Speaker
It will move on to the next one.
00:22:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:29
Speaker
I think they're preparing too because Spike 3 is supposed to be coming out sooner rather than later.
00:22:34
Speaker
So it'll be interesting to see how that advances code and depth as well.
00:22:39
Speaker
I mean, these games are insanely deep.
00:22:42
Speaker
Yep.
00:22:43
Speaker
Anywho, so I guess what's your overall verdict of Stranger Things?
00:22:47
Speaker
I don't know if it, I don't think it cannibalizes off Venom sales.
00:22:53
Speaker
So it's not really a competitor to Venom.
00:22:57
Speaker
If you're going to be interested in Stranger Things, then absolutely pick this up.
00:23:02
Speaker
That's pretty much the going rate of games.
00:23:05
Speaker
And it may be unfair to say, well, it's $2,000 more, but it's the same game.
00:23:11
Speaker
Because we have...
00:23:13
Speaker
four years of inflation and some crazy things that happen in the market.
00:23:18
Speaker
So I, that is, even though it's true, you know, it's, that's part of the scheme of pinball is that you're going to have pay increases.
00:23:30
Speaker
Same thing.
00:23:30
Speaker
Same with cars, right?
00:23:31
Speaker
Same with cars.
00:23:32
Speaker
Heck, even look at Little Caesars.
00:23:34
Speaker
It's the first time they've had an inflation or price increase in the last like 20 some odd years.
00:23:39
Speaker
And it was a 50% markup.
00:23:40
Speaker
I mean, it was not cheap by any means.
00:23:42
Speaker
I mean, it was 40%.
00:23:43
Speaker
I mean, it went from $5 to $7 or 750.
00:23:44
Speaker
Yeah, up to eight now, isn't it?
00:23:48
Speaker
I can't remember.
00:23:49
Speaker
I don't really... The only Little Caesars version I like is the Detroit style, which is basically the old deep dish square version.
00:23:59
Speaker
That's the only one I like.
00:24:00
Speaker
They take their Italian cheese bread and put some pepperonis on top.
00:24:02
Speaker
Yep.
00:24:02
Speaker
But...
00:24:05
Speaker
All right,
Preparations and Speculations for Pinball Expo
00:24:06
Speaker
let's move on.
00:24:06
Speaker
We've got Pinball Expo coming up.
00:24:08
Speaker
I don't know if we'll record before the next Expo.
00:24:10
Speaker
Maybe.
00:24:11
Speaker
Because we're literally two weeks from yesterday is when the stuff will start.
00:24:16
Speaker
So things we're looking forward to, I guess you'll be home.
00:24:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:23
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:24:23
Speaker
I'm working.
00:24:24
Speaker
So party pooper.
00:24:25
Speaker
It'll be, it'll be interesting.
00:24:26
Speaker
I'll, I'll definitely be talking to Josh throughout the event and Josh will have the, the 3.0 hats.
00:24:33
Speaker
Yep.
00:24:34
Speaker
So I just put the order in for those on Monday.
00:24:37
Speaker
So awesome.
00:24:38
Speaker
They promised me they would have them all by next Friday.
00:24:41
Speaker
And we had quite the response to those holy crap.
00:24:45
Speaker
And they're great hats.
00:24:46
Speaker
So I'm wearing one right now.
00:24:48
Speaker
Well, we gave the option of the new 3.0s and the existing 2.0s.
00:24:52
Speaker
So we had a handful of the new whites.
00:24:56
Speaker
The snapback.
00:24:57
Speaker
Holy crap.
00:24:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:59
Speaker
A lot of people like those.
00:25:00
Speaker
Yes.
00:25:01
Speaker
It was great.
00:25:01
Speaker
I think we ended up go 15 snapbacks as I think what I ended up ordering.
00:25:06
Speaker
That was just the black, not including the white.
00:25:08
Speaker
It was pretty crazy response on that.
00:25:10
Speaker
But anywho.
00:25:12
Speaker
So we have four reveals coming out here at Expo.
00:25:16
Speaker
We've got people that have confirmed the mystery company is releasing a labyrinth.
00:25:21
Speaker
Do you think this is a good choice for a pinball theme?
00:25:26
Speaker
Okay.
00:25:27
Speaker
I saw Labyrinth last year after never having seen Labyrinth before.
00:25:36
Speaker
And I could not understand why people like this movie.
00:25:42
Speaker
It's a terrible movie, legit terrible.
00:25:44
Speaker
Like there's, it doesn't make any sense.
00:25:49
Speaker
And
00:25:50
Speaker
If they're totally tapping into that nostalgia thing, go ahead.
00:25:55
Speaker
It has zero connection to me.
00:25:57
Speaker
What about you, Josh?
00:25:59
Speaker
Honestly, I don't know if it's sacrilegious or not, but I've never seen Labyrinth.
00:26:03
Speaker
It's classic for some.
00:26:06
Speaker
It's a classic for my age group.
00:26:09
Speaker
It's one of those things.
00:26:10
Speaker
I would put it in the Goonies category that for some reason so many people connected with it.
00:26:20
Speaker
Not sure that the same group is going to buy Labyrinth because I don't think it's not like one of those things where it's like, hey, it's Mario and the younger generation connects with it.
00:26:31
Speaker
I guarantee my kids watch Labyrinth.
00:26:33
Speaker
They're just like, this is kind of weird.
00:26:35
Speaker
I'm like, yeah, yeah, it was kind of weird.
00:26:38
Speaker
Oddly though, like dark crystals getting resurgence and has its own new series on net.
00:26:42
Speaker
Well, it did, but it, it only lasted one season.
00:26:46
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:26:46
Speaker
Well, Netflix has been killing everything.
00:26:48
Speaker
It was actually, I thought it was good.
00:26:51
Speaker
I didn't think it was great.
00:26:51
Speaker
I thought it was good, but super expensive to make, The Dark Crystal.
00:26:58
Speaker
So they were getting really into the lore of the Gelflings and the Clans and how the Skeksis were basically esteemed as a prophet figure, but they were...
00:27:17
Speaker
unknowingly very dark.
00:27:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:20
Speaker
So I thought it was going into a very interesting realm, but it, it obviously didn't last long enough for them to decide they want to renew it.
00:27:31
Speaker
So overall, so your thought is this may or may not hit hit or miss just depends on how it looks.
00:27:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:38
Speaker
I, I don't have a good feel.
00:27:39
Speaker
It's, it's not for me.
00:27:42
Speaker
So I I'll be curious to see other people and let us know, let us know if labyrinth is one of your dream themes.
00:27:48
Speaker
I don't hear it ever as being floated before though.
00:27:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:55
Speaker
So there's those wish list of rumors.
00:27:59
Speaker
We're like, I wish this game would be made.
00:28:02
Speaker
And I don't remember Labyrinth being high on that list.
00:28:06
Speaker
I think it is smart, though, coming out of the gate with a license.
00:28:09
Speaker
You have to.
00:28:11
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:28:11
Speaker
You have to.
00:28:12
Speaker
If there's anything...
00:28:17
Speaker
If there's anything that data East slash Stern proved is that licensing sells games.
00:28:24
Speaker
Yep.
00:28:25
Speaker
100%.
00:28:25
Speaker
Okay.
00:28:27
Speaker
So the next release that's coming to expo is elements by pinball adventures.
00:28:33
Speaker
What are your thoughts on this one?
00:28:34
Speaker
Scott, I guess I'll see what the demand will be.
00:28:39
Speaker
I would say punny factory had a mixed release.
00:28:44
Speaker
To be fair, the, there were some problems with manufacturing, but Spooky's American air America's most haunted wasn't, it was, it was a first run option.
00:29:00
Speaker
It was, it was learning how to cut your teeth in the pinball industry.
00:29:04
Speaker
And they've been able to, to build a company for themselves.
00:29:08
Speaker
So is it possible?
00:29:10
Speaker
Maybe.
00:29:13
Speaker
This seems to be like the art is very interesting.
00:29:16
Speaker
It looks like a 70s fantasy sci-fi vibe.
00:29:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:23
Speaker
And so if that's what you're looking for, it kind of borders on like a Dungeons and Dragons art vibe.
00:29:32
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:32
Speaker
So we'll see if that connects with audiences.
00:29:37
Speaker
What are you thinking, Josh?
00:29:39
Speaker
it's one of those games that I'm going to have to play it to see what I think.
00:29:43
Speaker
And I really don't have much interest in it besides.
00:29:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:48
Speaker
It, it, it may be fun though.
00:29:50
Speaker
I mean, Hot Wheels was, Hot Wheels was way more fun than I thought it was going to be.
00:29:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:56
Speaker
I'll agree with that.
00:29:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:58
Speaker
So that was, that was a theme that I was like, I don't know about this, but it actually works well.
00:30:04
Speaker
for that game.
00:30:05
Speaker
So we'll see if this is able to do the same thing.
00:30:08
Speaker
I agree.
00:30:09
Speaker
It'll be interesting to see what they can do.
00:30:11
Speaker
You are looking for niche collectors though, just because unless you have 10, 15 games, you're probably not going to take a risk on this.
00:30:22
Speaker
Yeah.
Controversies and Rumors in the Pinball World
00:30:24
Speaker
Next game, a pinball machine for non-pinball people at a pinball convention.
00:30:29
Speaker
Home pin with their third game.
00:30:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:35
Speaker
This guy is not easy to like.
00:30:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:40
Speaker
He really has given the proverbial middle finger to pinball players.
00:30:46
Speaker
He's also given the middle finger to Americans.
00:30:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:54
Speaker
So you're coming to Expo and showing a game in a pinball game.
00:31:02
Speaker
in a pinball centric expo in the United States of America, where you have by your own admission, you had bad experience with four customers.
00:31:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:18
Speaker
I don't know.
00:31:19
Speaker
It'll be interesting to see how it's received.
00:31:23
Speaker
If I remember in the interview, he said he wasn't going to sell to people in America anyway.
00:31:29
Speaker
I could be wrong.
00:31:30
Speaker
I don't know.
00:31:32
Speaker
I'm hoping that people get second chances.
00:31:35
Speaker
We'll see.
00:31:37
Speaker
None of his other choices have been...
00:31:42
Speaker
something I'm interested in.
00:31:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:44
Speaker
So I, I doubt that he's going to find a lot of people buying it.
00:31:48
Speaker
It seems like he's going off theme.
00:31:51
Speaker
Yep.
00:31:51
Speaker
And it's on, it's, uh, the equivalent of a zizzle.
00:31:57
Speaker
He, he flat out admitted that codes were not, our code was not that interesting for him.
00:32:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:04
Speaker
So you're making a game that, that beeps and dings, but,
00:32:11
Speaker
And you're supposed to drink it at a bar or sorry, you're supposed to play it while drinking at a bar with your friends.
00:32:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:19
Speaker
So we'll, we'll see that that is not going to fly well in a pinball players area because people are looking for code and they're looking for something to put in their house that they're not going to get bored of in a month.
00:32:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:34
Speaker
Or bored of on the second ball.
00:32:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:37
Speaker
That's why Stern and Indiana Jones really isn't well received.
00:32:41
Speaker
You can have an amazing thing, but if it's, I don't know.
00:32:46
Speaker
I guess I haven't seen the sales numbers on either.
00:32:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:49
Speaker
Me neither.
00:32:51
Speaker
It'll be interesting.
00:32:52
Speaker
I will look and see what is released.
00:32:56
Speaker
And I will anticipate you guys giving me a report to say how well it's played.
00:33:03
Speaker
Yep, I will play it and let you know if I'm allowed to play it after I went off.
00:33:07
Speaker
He tends to hold grudges, and so it'll be interesting to see if he even knows who I am.
00:33:16
Speaker
Don't want that kid over here.
00:33:18
Speaker
Yeah, I doubt it.
00:33:20
Speaker
2,500 is how many they produced of Stern Indiana Jones, by the way.
00:33:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:27
Speaker
So it'll be interesting to see how it's received.
00:33:31
Speaker
It's more of an oddity.
00:33:34
Speaker
I know a lot of people who are Spinal Tap fans that even that theme was not enough to make them want to buy this game.
00:33:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:43
Speaker
I agree.
00:33:45
Speaker
All right.
00:33:45
Speaker
And the fourth one, if it's true, JJP revealing Elton John.
00:33:49
Speaker
Sorry, Elton John is the rumor.
00:33:51
Speaker
But supposedly JJP is geared up and ready to show at Expo, which is less than eight months between Godfather and Elton John.
00:34:00
Speaker
That's pretty impressive.
00:34:02
Speaker
They've promised they're going to start pushing out every nine months.
00:34:05
Speaker
And so we're there.
00:34:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:09
Speaker
And
00:34:09
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:11
Speaker
I think JJP makes, they make great games.
00:34:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:14
Speaker
They, so Guns N' Roses is an amazing immersive experience.
00:34:23
Speaker
Toy Story, the biggest criticism I had for Toy Story was the price.
00:34:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:28
Speaker
It seemed like an awesome $8,500 game that was packaged in a $12,500 sales thing.
00:34:37
Speaker
So that was, that was my stumbling block on toy story.
00:34:41
Speaker
However, I think it's a fun game and I would own toy story right now for the right price.
00:34:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:49
Speaker
Godfather is it's a, it's a very specific theme for a very specific audience.
00:34:59
Speaker
Are you going to tap into the same audience with Elton John?
00:35:01
Speaker
Because you are in that, you know, seventies nostalgia.
00:35:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:08
Speaker
So are you going to be able to capture enough people who are in their sixties who are interested in buying, buying Elton John?
00:35:16
Speaker
I think the thing too is, is JB JJP does a great job with colorful flamboyant games.
00:35:23
Speaker
I mean, was it her of Oz with the rainbow?
00:35:26
Speaker
I mean, guns and roses felt very colorful.
00:35:30
Speaker
I, and I feel like,
00:35:32
Speaker
concert machines are their niche.
00:35:36
Speaker
It'll look great.
00:35:37
Speaker
I guarantee it'll look great.
00:35:39
Speaker
I'm really intrigued to see because Steve Ritchie is mostly known for fast play.
00:35:46
Speaker
It doesn't seem to be the fit for him.
00:35:48
Speaker
He's more of a hard rock guy, not a 70s pop guy.
00:35:54
Speaker
There was some heavier stuff that he produced, but still point being.
00:35:58
Speaker
Elton John?
00:35:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:36:02
Speaker
Maybe Saturday night's all right for fighting.
00:36:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:06
Speaker
Okay.
00:36:08
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:36:09
Speaker
It's, it's great, but he's also known for like Daniel song and, but we're also talking to Matt about a man that his, his hits were sixties and seventies, right?
00:36:19
Speaker
Right.
00:36:20
Speaker
Am I going too early with sixties?
00:36:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:24
Speaker
Uh, seventies was really his, his wheelhouse.
00:36:28
Speaker
He still had some things in the eighties too.
00:36:31
Speaker
But 70s was really his era.
00:36:35
Speaker
So you're looking at it's 50 years later.
00:36:38
Speaker
So people who were in their 20s.
00:36:40
Speaker
So you're looking at 70 year olds.
00:36:43
Speaker
Skyline Pigeon, 69.
00:36:46
Speaker
Goodbye.
00:36:46
Speaker
Let's see.
00:36:47
Speaker
Rocketman, 72.
00:36:48
Speaker
We're looking at that.
00:36:51
Speaker
And there's some stuff in the 80s as well.
00:36:53
Speaker
Sure.
00:36:54
Speaker
I just don't look at this.
00:36:55
Speaker
Captain Fantastic is a 70s game.
00:36:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:00
Speaker
I just don't look at these songs, though, and just think, concert pin.
00:37:06
Speaker
And granted, I've never seen Elton John Live.
00:37:09
Speaker
I have really good.
00:37:10
Speaker
He's a really good, I've seen him live.
00:37:13
Speaker
He's a, he's a great player and a great entertainer.
00:37:18
Speaker
But he like his songs, he is 70.
00:37:21
Speaker
So it's, it's people in his age demographic who will likely be buying this pin.
00:37:28
Speaker
However, if it's done really well, then it could be one of those, those old as new things.
00:37:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:38
Speaker
It'll be, I'm most curious about this because it'll be interesting to see the supposition was that Steve was not able to make the games that he wanted because of the constraints on building materials.
00:37:54
Speaker
Now, the rumor is everybody has the same building materials and so everybody uses those differently.
00:38:01
Speaker
So is that a designer issue or is he just...
00:38:05
Speaker
not know how to caught, like make something more cost effective.
00:38:11
Speaker
I felt black night would have been a much better game if they were able to put something up on that upper play field other than the cannon.
00:38:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:19
Speaker
I, or the catapult, excuse me.
00:38:21
Speaker
I would have, I would have rather had pop bumpers, targets, whatever on that upper play field and ditch the whole catapult thing.
00:38:31
Speaker
But yeah,
00:38:33
Speaker
Who knows?
00:38:34
Speaker
Maybe a new company, new environment.
00:38:36
Speaker
Steve may pull a rabbit out of his hat.
00:38:39
Speaker
See, and I'm really intrigued by this because like you said, Steve has said time and time again in interview after interview since his departure from Stern that he was hamstrung or handcuffed because of the bill of material.
00:38:55
Speaker
Let's talk his last three games really quick.
00:38:56
Speaker
Just really quickly.
00:38:58
Speaker
Led Zeppelin, which in my opinion is just Star Trek
00:39:03
Speaker
But crap, not crap, your design, sorry.
00:39:05
Speaker
The shots are a little more tight, but findable, I guess.
00:39:09
Speaker
It's a more challenging shot selection.
00:39:12
Speaker
Yes.
00:39:13
Speaker
Star Trek, I mean, it's wide open.
00:39:15
Speaker
Yep.
00:39:16
Speaker
Like you can hit those ramps.
00:39:18
Speaker
Led Zeppelin is not that easy.
00:39:20
Speaker
Correct.
00:39:21
Speaker
Black Knight Sword of Rage, which I really think is a good game.
00:39:29
Speaker
It felt like there was something missing, though.
00:39:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:32
Speaker
Well, the pros actually better than the premium because plays better.
00:39:38
Speaker
But the year, if you're going to do a release, it's, it would like to be doing a star Wars sequel, but
00:39:47
Speaker
like without, you know, you're like, Hey, we're making a sequel to empire strikes back, but it's not going to have Yoda or the force in it.
00:39:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:54
Speaker
Kind of how it felt with an empty play field, uh, play field.
00:39:58
Speaker
Excuse me.
00:39:59
Speaker
And I just didn't see the cost difference for the upper play field and grand the toppers, one of the best toppers in, in pinball was awesome.
00:40:05
Speaker
I actually just sold my topper.
00:40:07
Speaker
Thanks.
00:40:09
Speaker
I, my, my friend actually sold his black night Ellie cause he wanted a pro.
00:40:16
Speaker
And so he texted and said, hey, would you be willing to sell me the topper on the contingency that if you want it back when I sell it, then you can buy it?
00:40:24
Speaker
And I said, sure.
00:40:27
Speaker
I really think the mech for that was cool.
00:40:29
Speaker
But overall, it fell flat sales wise.
00:40:33
Speaker
Right.
00:40:35
Speaker
Star Wars, which is obviously going to sell no matter what you put in it.
00:40:37
Speaker
They've proven that time and time again.
00:40:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:40
Speaker
But I still felt like this was another.
00:40:42
Speaker
Felt empty.
00:40:43
Speaker
It did.
00:40:45
Speaker
It just, I was, I wanted an Ellie and once it was released, I backed out.
00:40:51
Speaker
It's one of the few games where I actually backed out after I saw it and I don't regret backing out.
00:40:59
Speaker
Game of Thrones.
00:41:00
Speaker
I would argue that's probably his last.
00:41:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:03
Speaker
Game of Thrones.
00:41:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:05
Speaker
Theme's a big thing for me.
00:41:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:07
Speaker
And that's not my theme.
00:41:09
Speaker
So.
00:41:10
Speaker
I guess Star Wars was a hit in the regards that like it sold a lot.
00:41:13
Speaker
It was.
00:41:14
Speaker
It was every.
00:41:14
Speaker
I still see it on location.
00:41:16
Speaker
It's still.
00:41:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:18
Speaker
But Game of Thrones was really good.
00:41:20
Speaker
And then before that, you've got Star Trek.
00:41:22
Speaker
Then ACDC.
00:41:23
Speaker
24.
00:41:26
Speaker
Spider-Man.
00:41:28
Speaker
World Poker Tour, which was amazing.
00:41:31
Speaker
It was a really good game.
00:41:32
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:41:34
Speaker
Elvis, which was all right.
00:41:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:36
Speaker
Terminator three, which was really good.
00:41:38
Speaker
I just looking for when he started at Stern to Terminator three, it just feels like some of these games are revered as some of the best games ever made.
Steve Ritchie's Legacy and Future Projects
00:41:46
Speaker
Some of them.
00:41:47
Speaker
I mean, heck you, we, we account ACDC for the revival of pinball.
00:41:52
Speaker
Okay.
00:41:53
Speaker
Yes.
00:41:53
Speaker
ACDC is an unqualified home run.
00:41:56
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:41:58
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:42:00
Speaker
Star Trek's amazing.
00:42:01
Speaker
It's a fun game.
00:42:02
Speaker
It really is.
00:42:03
Speaker
So you have ACDC, you have Star Trek.
00:42:07
Speaker
The other ones, I would say, were more good efforts, but I wouldn't say a long-term owner.
00:42:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:19
Speaker
So I guess overall, it's going to be interesting because Steve Ritchie has proved that he can make a good game.
00:42:24
Speaker
Like I said, those last three were a little rough, especially Led Zeppelin.
00:42:31
Speaker
I don't know.
00:42:33
Speaker
It's going to be interesting.
00:42:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:35
Speaker
Especially with Elton John, I feel like is a hurdle to get over.
00:42:38
Speaker
I'm not hearing anyone that's like, oh, I just Elton John is the game, right?
00:42:43
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know.
00:42:45
Speaker
I think he could pull it off.
00:42:47
Speaker
There's certainly a lot of catchy songs and you don't have to have a rock band to do it.
00:42:53
Speaker
It could be, he has a lot of fast songs and so it can still be done right.
00:43:01
Speaker
And not everything has to be like a, you know, it has to be a rock band.
00:43:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:07
Speaker
True.
00:43:07
Speaker
It doesn't.
00:43:07
Speaker
I mean, pink would be a great, I've said it before.
00:43:10
Speaker
Pink would be a great pinball machine.
00:43:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:13
Speaker
Bruno Mars.
00:43:14
Speaker
Bruno Mars.
00:43:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:16
Speaker
I was listening to the Ramones to him.
00:43:18
Speaker
Like, why hasn't this ever been made?
00:43:19
Speaker
They were banned from the sixties slash seventies.
00:43:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:22
Speaker
They, no, no.
00:43:24
Speaker
It seems like most people remember the Ramones for who they are and maybe what they represented to the punk scene.
00:43:31
Speaker
I'm not sure too many people are still listening to the Ramones though.
00:43:36
Speaker
We talk about it was, it's been like the last three Spider-Man movies.
00:43:39
Speaker
It's been Shazam.
00:43:40
Speaker
I mean, it's okay.
00:43:42
Speaker
I feel like there's still some relevance to Ramones that even you get tired of the Ramones, like many people, not me, but many people felt like they get tired of iron maidens music.
00:43:54
Speaker
Okay.
00:43:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:54
Speaker
Alrighty.
00:43:56
Speaker
So we have, we have a couple of minutes left and we got hit up by kineticis.
00:44:04
Speaker
So Colin over there says that let's do a big collab.
00:44:09
Speaker
And what we're going to do right now is we're going to talk about our top five favorite current pinball machines.
00:44:17
Speaker
Let's just do a quick synopsis because a lot of these games, Scott and I kind of discussed this because it kind of leaves open some room.
00:44:23
Speaker
We're going to try to aim for games from 2012 to now because that's current and kind of what we're playing most.
00:44:33
Speaker
So I guess let's, let's Scott, do you want to start off with number five?
00:44:36
Speaker
Let's go five down to one who, wow.
00:44:39
Speaker
I don't know if I could rank them all.
00:44:43
Speaker
Do you want me to go first then?
00:44:46
Speaker
Yeah, go ahead.
00:44:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:44:48
Speaker
I'm going to go in the number five spot.
00:44:50
Speaker
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
00:44:52
Speaker
I think it is a great throwback to nineties games.
00:44:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:44:55
Speaker
Mode based, very straightforward.
00:44:59
Speaker
Shoot this, do that.
00:45:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:45:01
Speaker
I loved the music.
00:45:03
Speaker
The voice call-outs were great.
00:45:06
Speaker
There were some shortcomings.
00:45:09
Speaker
The animation was a little rough.
00:45:12
Speaker
But overall, it was a game that I always was enjoying stepping up to.
00:45:17
Speaker
I sadly sold mine, but to get to Godzilla.
00:45:21
Speaker
But really, I still think if you want a good game,
00:45:25
Speaker
butt kicking game.
00:45:27
Speaker
It's Ninja Turtles.
00:45:27
Speaker
And if you're into tournaments and you're in a tournament and there's a turtles in there and you know how to play it, you do have the advantage.
00:45:33
Speaker
I know a lot of people steer away from it.
00:45:36
Speaker
Last tournament I played with the turtles in it.
00:45:38
Speaker
I always went to it and I kicked butt.
00:45:40
Speaker
So if you can learn a turtles, it's definitely to advantage to you.
00:45:43
Speaker
So what's yours, Scott?
00:45:45
Speaker
What's your number five?
00:45:47
Speaker
Number five.
00:45:50
Speaker
I am going to say looking over
00:45:56
Speaker
This one's going to be a little bit of a throwback from 2012 on.
00:46:02
Speaker
I'm still going to put Metallica in there.
00:46:05
Speaker
Metallica is a great game.
00:46:10
Speaker
It moved a ton of units.
00:46:12
Speaker
I will say, I think everybody has moved on from Metallica, but I'm still going to put which Borg am I going to put in the top
00:46:25
Speaker
would I in, in this hurts me, but would I put Metallica in or what I put rush in?
00:46:32
Speaker
And I think Metallica just edges out just because of it's, it's brutal.
00:46:39
Speaker
It's hard, but it's also lean like rush is awesome, but it seems like there's a little more going on.
00:46:46
Speaker
So I'm going to give Metallica bonus points for accomplishing something amazing on a smaller scale.
00:46:54
Speaker
then rush.
00:46:55
Speaker
So I'll put Metallica in there.
00:46:58
Speaker
I, I don't disagree with you.
00:46:59
Speaker
It's, it's a really good game.
00:47:01
Speaker
Number four for me, I'm going to go with Avengers infinity quest.
00:47:04
Speaker
This is a game I keep consistently coming back to.
00:47:07
Speaker
It's one that I do have to put down for a little bit, but when I come back, I still, the flow on this game is amazing.
00:47:15
Speaker
I don't know if there's a better shooting game out there right now, which makes me feel sad because Avengers, for some odd reason, has put at the bottom of one's list.
00:47:22
Speaker
But still, at 24 or 25 is the spot.
00:47:25
Speaker
You can't complain with those results.
00:47:28
Speaker
No.
00:47:28
Speaker
It's still great.
00:47:29
Speaker
It's still a great game.
00:47:31
Speaker
I love being able to – I think the hiccup is people always focus on the gems.
00:47:37
Speaker
And really the object of the game is to assemble your Avengers and go after Thanos and do that three times.
00:47:44
Speaker
but the gems are so fun.
00:47:45
Speaker
There's just something about starting reality, spin ripping that disc, getting all the lights lit up and getting a multi ball in there with it and just start slaying it.
00:47:55
Speaker
And it is awesome.
00:47:56
Speaker
It's one of the few games that the shots go up.
00:48:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:00
Speaker
They go up on the play field and it is, it's really cool.
00:48:04
Speaker
I wish that the captain Marvel shot were a little more dialed in.
00:48:09
Speaker
But yes, it is.
00:48:12
Speaker
Every time I think of, okay, well, which one do I...
00:48:16
Speaker
which Elwynn game would I sell?
00:48:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:19
Speaker
Sadly, it is the one that, that bubbles up, but then I go play it and it's like, this is so different than the other ones.
00:48:25
Speaker
I can't.
00:48:27
Speaker
It's funny though, because to me, like Avengers is more refined, which obviously it should be than Iron Maiden.
00:48:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:33
Speaker
But Iron Maiden gets such a higher praise.
00:48:35
Speaker
Right.
00:48:35
Speaker
But I don't know if it's because it was his first game and people just was like, wow, don't get me wrong.
00:48:40
Speaker
I do enjoy Iron Maiden.
00:48:41
Speaker
I own it.
00:48:42
Speaker
I have the pro right there.
00:48:43
Speaker
You can see it in my screen.
00:48:45
Speaker
But there's a clunkiness to Iron Maiden that I don't enjoy.
00:48:51
Speaker
When you hit a shot and it doesn't register because the ball came up off the path, it gets frustrating.
00:48:59
Speaker
Where in Avengers, I feel like
00:49:02
Speaker
Minus the Captain Marvel ramp, which I have mine dialed in, so it punishes you if you don't hit it clean.
00:49:09
Speaker
If you hit it clean, it's going around 10 on.
00:49:11
Speaker
It's great.
00:49:12
Speaker
Yeah, it feels so smooth.
00:49:14
Speaker
Mine feels like butter, so I have no complaints with my Captain Marvel.
00:49:19
Speaker
But just once I got my Avengers dialed in, every shot registers.
00:49:24
Speaker
I feel like I earned my score in that game.
00:49:27
Speaker
Where with Iron Maiden, there's been multiple times I've gotten to the end and something's ricocheted.
00:49:33
Speaker
And again, it's pinball.
00:49:34
Speaker
That's pinball, right?
00:49:35
Speaker
Sure.
00:49:35
Speaker
But that's like one of the reasons I don't like Houdini.
00:49:37
Speaker
Like Houdini ricochets so bad out of the theater that I just, I don't want to play a game where I get frustrated.
00:49:45
Speaker
I want to play a game I enjoy.
00:49:47
Speaker
Or I feel like if I did lose, it's because of my fault, not because the game was crappy.
00:49:54
Speaker
So that's my number four, Avengers.
00:49:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:49:57
Speaker
My number four is Stranger Things.
00:50:02
Speaker
Nice.
00:50:03
Speaker
I would say that it started out and yes, people looked at it and said, ah, geez, we've seen this before.
00:50:13
Speaker
However, every single two flipper game has the same shots.
00:50:20
Speaker
I'm going to break it to you.
00:50:23
Speaker
There's basically seven shots that you can make off those flippers.
00:50:27
Speaker
And so if you're doing a fan, a two flipper game, it's going to feel the same.
00:50:34
Speaker
Yes.
00:50:34
Speaker
Now it was cut short and I'm really glad they brought it back because it is an upgraded version of revenge from Mars, which is, or excuse me, attack from Mars, which is a classic.
00:50:47
Speaker
Yep.
00:50:48
Speaker
So it's doing it equal and it's equally good, but updated.
00:50:55
Speaker
So I'm going to take stranger things as my number four.
00:51:00
Speaker
And I'm glad that people have the ability to buy it.
00:51:03
Speaker
Now, if you want it and you missed out, buy it.
00:51:05
Speaker
Yep.
00:51:05
Speaker
All right.
00:51:08
Speaker
So my number three, I am going to go with guns and roses.
00:51:13
Speaker
Okay.
00:51:14
Speaker
This game is full immersion.
00:51:18
Speaker
You always talk about world under glass.
00:51:20
Speaker
This is it.
00:51:21
Speaker
Like Stern might be the Kings of tournament playing or anything like that.
00:51:26
Speaker
But just the, just you feel like you're in a Guns N' Roses concert.
00:51:32
Speaker
It just, it feels so good.
00:51:34
Speaker
It's cool to see like having different items from the band members on the play field, like the drumsticks as a ramp and just building up that combo.
00:51:44
Speaker
And, and, you know, it's that whole risk reward factor built into it.
00:51:48
Speaker
It's a really fun game.
00:51:49
Speaker
It's a beautiful game.
00:51:51
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:51:53
Speaker
I think overall, it's one of the pinnacles for Jersey Jack.
00:51:57
Speaker
It may not be mechanically the best, like Pirates of the Caribbean, which I would almost tie...
00:52:03
Speaker
with guns and roses for my third but i really there's something about guns and roses the the the light show that is immersed and connected to the footage of the game it it's just so mensmerizing playing this game or watching someone else play it it takes a little bit to get into that that is my only one downfall is is
00:52:25
Speaker
you don't really feel like you can enjoy the game until you get stuff going.
00:52:29
Speaker
And it takes, it takes a little bit to get going, but once you open up this game, it's a blast.
00:52:34
Speaker
So, okay.
00:52:37
Speaker
So that's your number, uh, number three.
00:52:40
Speaker
My number three is Deadpool.
00:52:44
Speaker
Deadpool had that boomerang action where when it came out, people said, ah,
00:52:50
Speaker
This is simple.
00:52:51
Speaker
This is a throwback.
00:52:53
Speaker
This is not worth your time.
00:52:56
Speaker
Nothing to write home about.
00:52:59
Speaker
As people got to play it more and more, there is, maybe this is a theme on my preference on pinball machines, but there is an elegance to simplicity, especially when it's done well.
00:53:13
Speaker
And Deadpool is a simple game that is done so well.
00:53:19
Speaker
It is the game that I moved upstairs so I could move Cactus Canyon down.
00:53:24
Speaker
But it was kind of because it was the main game I was going to and I needed to swap it up.
00:53:30
Speaker
I still have no interest in selling it.
00:53:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:33
Speaker
But I swapped it out of my collection so I would be driven to play some of these other games.
00:53:39
Speaker
Yep.
00:53:39
Speaker
So Deadpool is my number three.
00:53:43
Speaker
great, great game.
00:53:44
Speaker
And it's one that I consider putting on my list.
00:53:47
Speaker
And that's glad you put it in yours.
00:53:48
Speaker
Cause I'm like, it needs some recognition.
00:53:50
Speaker
It is right.
00:53:51
Speaker
And I want to, I, okay.
00:53:53
Speaker
I'm cheating a little bit because when you put guns and roses in, I, I wanted to make room for, for other games in the list because I'm, I'm glad that you put guns and roses in because yes, you are right.
00:54:06
Speaker
That it is an experience.
00:54:08
Speaker
Yes.
00:54:10
Speaker
I, uh,
00:54:12
Speaker
Again, I prefer the streamlined approach of a Deadpool.
00:54:18
Speaker
All right.
00:54:19
Speaker
I don't know if this one's considered cheating since we said games from 2012, like ACDC to newer.
00:54:27
Speaker
But this game did get a remake in 2017.
00:54:30
Speaker
Attack for Mars, and it has to be the LE.
00:54:33
Speaker
That topper is just one of the best, make you smile, goofiest.
00:54:42
Speaker
I don't regret selling any of my pinball machines, but if I could get one back, I really think it'd be my Attack for Mars.
00:54:49
Speaker
It was once described to me that Attack from Mars is like the epitome of pinball, right?
00:54:53
Speaker
It is just fun, joy in a box.
00:54:57
Speaker
And the way that Chicago Gaming Company has updated this game with the mirror blades and the LEDs and just the sound is so good, so good on a CGC.
00:55:10
Speaker
It's funny.
00:55:10
Speaker
I almost say they don't need shaker motors because you turn those up and you'll feel the game shaking in your hand.
00:55:15
Speaker
They're built like a tank.
00:55:18
Speaker
There's a reason that these games are highly sought after and resell for high prices.
00:55:24
Speaker
I really wish Chicago Gaming Company would release a new game once a year and then do a vault.
00:55:34
Speaker
Either the same year or the next year.
00:55:36
Speaker
Give yourself, because it takes a couple years for them to come out with a game.
00:55:40
Speaker
Please, Doug, if you're listening, you've got to start putting out more of these games.
00:55:44
Speaker
There's still a high demand.
00:55:45
Speaker
I know that pinball is tapering off in the market, but there's still a high demand for Medieval Madness Attack from Mars.
00:55:52
Speaker
I mean, people are even looking for Cactus Canyon, which shocks me because when we both discussed it when it first came out, it just wasn't getting the hype I thought it would until it released.
00:56:01
Speaker
And it's just CGC knows how to take these games and make something magical out of them.
00:56:07
Speaker
And Attack from Mars for me is that.
00:56:10
Speaker
And there is, like I said, it is the epitome of like 1990s code.
00:56:14
Speaker
Like we all cling on to that 90s era because it's kind of,
00:56:19
Speaker
a great entry point where it's more modern, but still simplistic, right?
00:56:25
Speaker
It's easy to understand rules, but you're still feeling like you're not playing the 1960s EM.
00:56:33
Speaker
If you haven't played Attack from Mars in LE, you have to.
00:56:36
Speaker
It just...
00:56:39
Speaker
It's hilarious.
00:56:40
Speaker
There's call outs.
00:56:41
Speaker
It's absolutely funny.
00:56:43
Speaker
It's memorable.
00:56:44
Speaker
It's everything.
00:56:45
Speaker
And one of my favorite parts is if you've never done this.
00:56:47
Speaker
Time for tea.
00:56:49
Speaker
Time for tea.
00:56:50
Speaker
If you're going after the, you know when all the aliens start jumping on the play field and you've got to knock them down to start Martian multiball.
00:56:57
Speaker
Yep.
00:56:58
Speaker
If you leave...
00:56:59
Speaker
the one by the scoop for the very last and you miss him and hit it into the scoop, he will laugh at you and say, ha ha, you missed just funny little quirky things like that.
00:57:09
Speaker
Right.
00:57:10
Speaker
It's, it's just a great game.
00:57:12
Speaker
So that's number two in my heart attack from ours.
00:57:17
Speaker
Okay.
00:57:20
Speaker
I'm cheating.
00:57:20
Speaker
Thank you.
00:57:24
Speaker
Declaring that I'm cheating.
00:57:27
Speaker
So my number two,
00:57:30
Speaker
is all four CGC remakes.
00:57:32
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:57:33
Speaker
Okay.
00:57:34
Speaker
Okay.
00:57:34
Speaker
I thought mine was cheating, but yeah, all four CGC remakes because they are the games that my kids want to play.
00:57:44
Speaker
Yes.
00:57:45
Speaker
They will fail in, in depth of code.
00:57:48
Speaker
They will fail.
00:57:49
Speaker
And the only one of those four, uh, cactus Canyon, uh,
00:57:55
Speaker
Monster Bash, Medieval Madness, and Attack from Mars.
00:57:58
Speaker
The only one that is tournament ready is Attack from Mars.
00:58:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:04
Speaker
Because it still has that risk.
00:58:06
Speaker
Like any other, like the Travis Murys out there, the Tom Graffs out there, they're going to kill this game, these games.
00:58:15
Speaker
But when I brought Cactus Canyon down, that was the game that my kid just played over and over again.
00:58:23
Speaker
And so for the sake of the new generation, we need more pinball like that in the modern era in that they're fun and they're still fun to
Appreciation for Pinball Remakes and Community
00:58:35
Speaker
play.
00:58:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:36
Speaker
So finding that balance, you know, maybe there's the theme in my, in my list is there's something to be said for elegant simplicity.
00:58:48
Speaker
Yep.
00:58:50
Speaker
So that, and the toppers, my gosh, they are amazing.
00:58:54
Speaker
Like all four of those toppers, they, the one downside with cactus Canyon is that no one wants to buy it without the topper because the topper is so cool.
00:59:07
Speaker
So find a way.
00:59:10
Speaker
I agree with you.
00:59:11
Speaker
Keep keep pushing these things out.
00:59:13
Speaker
Figure out a way to make the next, you know, the next remake, like do a whitewater.
00:59:19
Speaker
Your whitewater would be amazing.
00:59:22
Speaker
And the only problem is I'd have to find ways of collecting all of them because I don't think I can sell any of them.
00:59:28
Speaker
I agree.
00:59:28
Speaker
So that's why it is my number two in that my kids won't let me sell any of them.
00:59:34
Speaker
All right.
00:59:35
Speaker
Number one.
00:59:36
Speaker
I think we do want to say it together.
00:59:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:39
Speaker
On three, one, two, three.
00:59:41
Speaker
Godzilla.
00:59:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:59:44
Speaker
It's not, not even close.
00:59:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:46
Speaker
It really is not even close that, uh,
00:59:49
Speaker
the gap between one and two, it's like Tiger Woods at his heyday when he was so far above every other golfer that it wasn't even close.
01:00:04
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:06
Speaker
And, and that is, that is amazing to me that we have almost a hundred years of pinball.
01:00:15
Speaker
And I even add like the modern flipper era.
01:00:18
Speaker
Okay.
01:00:19
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:19
Speaker
Like how many games are out there and the number one game justifiably rated is a game that was released last year.
01:00:32
Speaker
Two years ago, actually.
01:00:33
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:34
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:37
Speaker
So two years ago, 2021.
01:00:40
Speaker
So that is just, it's amazing to me that it is fun, casual.
01:00:45
Speaker
It is fun, deep.
01:00:47
Speaker
And again, Keith Elwin is the king of elegant simplicity.
01:00:52
Speaker
He does.
01:00:53
Speaker
He makes games that new people can understand and tournament people still like.
01:00:59
Speaker
I think not only that, he's learned how to
01:01:02
Speaker
Dangle the carrot so that you feel like it's close enough that it's achievable, but it's still hard enough that you want to come back for more.
01:01:12
Speaker
And I think it doesn't matter if you're a newbie or if you are Travis Murray or Keith Elwin.
01:01:19
Speaker
There is just something about Godzilla that is just amazing.
01:01:25
Speaker
It's the little nuances in the code.
01:01:27
Speaker
It's the way the game metamorphosizes as you're playing it.
01:01:32
Speaker
The mechs, which are simplistic but still amazing.
01:01:37
Speaker
It's what...
01:01:38
Speaker
Pinball should have, it's, it's what Adam family did for pinball in the nineties.
01:01:42
Speaker
Right.
01:01:42
Speaker
It's what Godzilla has done.
01:01:43
Speaker
Yes.
01:01:44
Speaker
It's a post Godzilla and a pre Godzilla.
01:01:48
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:49
Speaker
Cause it is the new standard.
01:01:51
Speaker
And by the way, I will say elegant simplicity.
01:01:54
Speaker
Keith has done that.
01:01:55
Speaker
However, there are so many options on Godzilla that,
01:02:00
Speaker
that it's not like you're doing the five things or the five modes.
01:02:04
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:04
Speaker
Like you can attack that game from so many areas and you still won't be done, but you don't feel lost like wizard of Oz where it's just, it's just so complex that you're like, I don't know where I'm going.
01:02:21
Speaker
Well, and,
01:02:22
Speaker
It seems like pinball is very much like line up the dominoes and then knock them over, right?
01:02:26
Speaker
Like you're trying to get them all lined up.
01:02:29
Speaker
And sometimes in pinball, you only get about half of them lined up and you got to knock them down because you're ball three and this is the best you're getting, right?
01:02:37
Speaker
And it's that wood choppiness, right?
01:02:39
Speaker
Like you think of medieval madness, you think of attack from ours.
01:02:42
Speaker
I'm getting the dominoes lined up to, to, to the castle.
01:02:47
Speaker
In some ways, even though I love Metallica, it's the same thing.
01:02:52
Speaker
Like same thing.
01:02:53
Speaker
Do a crank it up again, you know?
01:02:54
Speaker
So Keith Owen has found some way to make you feel still accomplished.
01:02:59
Speaker
Even if you don't send up all the dominoes and nine times out of 10,
01:03:03
Speaker
You're not going to get to the end of this.
01:03:04
Speaker
I've been to Planet X like three, four times.
01:03:07
Speaker
And you've put like 3,000 games on it.
01:03:11
Speaker
I don't know if I put that much.
01:03:12
Speaker
But it's just I still feel accomplished getting to the mini wizard mode of either Terror of Mechagodzilla or of
01:03:23
Speaker
Oh, Monster Zero.
01:03:25
Speaker
And what I love about it is it gives it to you as you're playing the game.
01:03:30
Speaker
It's like you've done these things that you've been already doing.
01:03:33
Speaker
Let's give you a mode for achieving that.
01:03:37
Speaker
Where a lot of the other games, like take Ninja Turtles, for example, or even Foo Fighters, you have to complete those modes.
01:03:45
Speaker
Foo Fighters is a great example of this.
01:03:47
Speaker
You start the mode, you need to complete it.
01:03:50
Speaker
If you're not, your city is flashing and you will not get to the mini wizard mode.
01:03:55
Speaker
You need to do those four things so you can get to, it's a multi-ball.
01:04:01
Speaker
You can either go to, I want to say it's either Austin, Texas, or it's like Washington, D.C.
01:04:06
Speaker
I think is the two places for me.
01:04:08
Speaker
And yeah, like in Guardians of the Galaxy does the same thing, right?
01:04:11
Speaker
Right.
01:04:12
Speaker
it's like you have to fight to get that mini wizard mode where Godzilla is like, Oh, you've been playing long enough.
01:04:18
Speaker
You've earned.
01:04:19
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:20
Speaker
If you're paying attention, you can get them pretty easily.
01:04:23
Speaker
Right.
01:04:24
Speaker
And that, I think that's the direction pinball should be going, like rewarding you for playing longer.
01:04:31
Speaker
Like there is, if you want tournament play, then go with tournament play, like get rewarded for making all the shots.
01:04:37
Speaker
And I get it.
01:04:38
Speaker
I get it.
01:04:38
Speaker
Like people complain, Godzilla rewards you for flailing sometimes.
01:04:43
Speaker
And that's kind of the case in some instances, but sometimes it isn't, you know?
01:04:49
Speaker
I feel like I actively have to decide whether I'm going for points, I'm going for depth in the game.
01:04:54
Speaker
Because I hate to tell you this, there's people having broken a billion on that game.
01:05:00
Speaker
I can get a billion in Tokyo before leaving it.
01:05:02
Speaker
So it's just how you approach the game.
01:05:05
Speaker
All right, well, that does it for our list.
01:05:10
Speaker
One last question he had for us, what do we love most about pinball right now?
01:05:15
Speaker
I've been thinking about it.
01:05:16
Speaker
Go ahead.
01:05:17
Speaker
I want you to go first.
01:05:18
Speaker
I've been thinking about this a lot.
01:05:20
Speaker
I really think it's the community.
01:05:21
Speaker
It's something we talked about earlier.
01:05:23
Speaker
I mean, it's even like Colin reaching out to us saying, hey, there's this concept that someone else came up with.
01:05:29
Speaker
Do you want to run with it?
01:05:30
Speaker
It's like, yeah, let's do it.
01:05:32
Speaker
Like I said, nine times out of ten, the community is pretty amazing.
01:05:37
Speaker
Yes, there are their trolls.
01:05:38
Speaker
They know they're trolls.
01:05:40
Speaker
They're not abashed by it one bit.
01:05:41
Speaker
They're not ashamed of it.
01:05:44
Speaker
But overall, I look at other
01:05:48
Speaker
Let me give you an example really quick, and I'll be super quick about this.
01:05:51
Speaker
I played Diablo on the phone.
01:05:53
Speaker
I haven't played Diablo in years.
01:05:54
Speaker
I loved Diablo 2.
01:05:55
Speaker
I never was able to play 3.
01:05:58
Speaker
So I can't remember what the name is for it.
01:05:59
Speaker
It's like Diablo Immortal or something like that.
01:06:03
Speaker
And it dumbfounded me that a mature game that had a bunch of adults playing it was so toxic and immature and just spiteful.
01:06:18
Speaker
This is supposedly a tight-knit group that makes clans and runs these things.
01:06:25
Speaker
But it was just... It was poisonous.
01:06:29
Speaker
It was poisonous.
01:06:31
Speaker
Especially to new players.
01:06:32
Speaker
They destroy new people.
01:06:35
Speaker
Correct.
01:06:36
Speaker
And they call them idiots.
01:06:37
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:38
Speaker
And they make fun of you for not even knowing.
01:06:40
Speaker
And it's funny, in pinball, it's like...
01:06:42
Speaker
if you've ever been to a tournament and you, you, you don't have to know very much.
01:06:46
Speaker
If you go to a tournament, people will say, Hey, this is what you do, or this is what you can do to improve.
01:06:52
Speaker
Or like you will get help out of the gate because I firmly believe it's like the first time we did salt Lake gaming con or the second time.
01:07:01
Speaker
Sorry, bone Karen showed up and I walked over to bone.
01:07:04
Speaker
Cause at that time he was like top 30 player somewhere on there.
01:07:07
Speaker
He might still be, I can't remember.
01:07:09
Speaker
I haven't looked at the list very long, but,
01:07:11
Speaker
I walked over to Bowen, I said, I've never seen a star strip starship troopers in my life.
01:07:17
Speaker
What do I do?
01:07:17
Speaker
And he's like, he's like, I'll boil it down to two things.
01:07:20
Speaker
And I can't remember, it was like, shoot this shot so many times and then you're going to shoot like one of the bugs or something.
01:07:26
Speaker
And it's going to be your jackpot and multi ball.
01:07:28
Speaker
And that's really all you're going to do.
01:07:29
Speaker
That's the two things.
01:07:31
Speaker
And it was funny because he told me those two things.
01:07:33
Speaker
I went and played Starship Troopers.
01:07:35
Speaker
I came back.
01:07:35
Speaker
I told him my score.
01:07:36
Speaker
And he's like, that was your score?
01:07:38
Speaker
That's a really good score for a game you've never played before.
01:07:41
Speaker
But it was like, it didn't bother him.
01:07:43
Speaker
And maybe he didn't feel threatened.
01:07:46
Speaker
I don't know.
01:07:47
Speaker
But I feel like every tournament I've been to, everyone's been very nice to be like, what can I do to help?
01:07:53
Speaker
right like are you enjoying yourself like there's only been two instances i can stand out in my mind where i did a tournament um we played a i love actually pin golf i know people i think i'm crazy for it but i did a hole-in-one on twilight zone it was doing all the locks and starting multi-ball something like that i can't remember but i did it it was it was kind of hard and uh
01:08:17
Speaker
Jeff Rivera of the pinball podcast was partnered up with me and he's like, holy crap, that was amazing.
01:08:24
Speaker
You know, and there was only one dude.
01:08:25
Speaker
I was like, man, it's only Twilight Zone.
01:08:27
Speaker
You didn't do that.
01:08:28
Speaker
Great.
01:08:29
Speaker
Everyone else is like, you did great.
01:08:30
Speaker
You know, like regardless if they believed it or not.
01:08:33
Speaker
Right.
01:08:33
Speaker
And so, but my point being is, is the community is amazing.
01:08:37
Speaker
It doesn't matter if it's tournament.
01:08:38
Speaker
It doesn't matter if it's podcast.
01:08:40
Speaker
It doesn't matter what it'd be.
01:08:42
Speaker
I mean, look at Dan Rostenstein and that dude.
01:08:46
Speaker
he was, we were signing his autograph book last expo.
01:08:49
Speaker
And now the dude has his own podcast.
01:08:50
Speaker
If you haven't checked it out, pinnovators on TPN, give it a listen.
01:08:54
Speaker
It is pretty amazing.
01:08:55
Speaker
It's pretty good stuff.
01:08:56
Speaker
So, yeah, I was actually texting Dan yesterday.
01:09:01
Speaker
So it was interesting because we were talking a little bit about just the industry and just kind of looking at it from a fan standpoint.
01:09:10
Speaker
And I, I, I actually passively said, yeah, well, I,
01:09:14
Speaker
I get it.
01:09:15
Speaker
I, my undergrad was mechanical engineering and he's just like, I knew there was something about you because I don't know what his major was, but he, he certainly has that background too.
01:09:27
Speaker
That actually transitions right into my love of pinball is that it's physical.
01:09:36
Speaker
Yes.
01:09:36
Speaker
That you actually have a connection to the machine that's not filtered through a screen or an algorithm.
01:09:44
Speaker
I mean, it's, you are, it is something that if you take the glass off, you could grab the ball.
01:09:52
Speaker
Yep.
01:09:53
Speaker
And so I love that it's, it's something that it feels real in a world that has increasingly turned artificial.
01:10:04
Speaker
Right.
01:10:05
Speaker
I agree.
01:10:06
Speaker
So everything you said about the community, a hundred percent true.
01:10:11
Speaker
I, it's a, I still remember when I put two and two together that Jeff Rivera was local because I had just barely bought, I think Spider-Man and I was trying to figure out a little bit more of how to use it.
01:10:26
Speaker
And he was driving, he was driving out to pick up a ghostbusters for the release party.
01:10:34
Speaker
And so it was, it was interesting and he was very welcoming and I had lots of questions and just, it was a very good experience, but I just love having something that I can physically interact with.
01:10:50
Speaker
And that, you know, it feels, it feels real.
01:10:54
Speaker
It feels retro.
01:10:55
Speaker
It feels in it's, it's a pre social media experience.
01:11:03
Speaker
I agree.
01:11:04
Speaker
Well, Scott, my camera has officially died.
01:11:07
Speaker
I have pulled a job.
01:11:07
Speaker
I can tell you.
01:11:09
Speaker
You're frozen there.
01:11:10
Speaker
Yep.
01:11:10
Speaker
It's an El Gato no signal.
01:11:12
Speaker
El Gato no signal.
01:11:13
Speaker
They could have taken a better picture to freeze on.
01:11:15
Speaker
Oh, well.
01:11:15
Speaker
That's okay.
01:11:17
Speaker
But I appreciate you joining me tonight and us doing this.
01:11:20
Speaker
And I guess the next time we talk, it's going to be – I don't know.
01:11:24
Speaker
We might get an episode in before –
01:11:27
Speaker
for a expo.
01:11:28
Speaker
We'll see.
01:11:28
Speaker
We'll see.
01:11:29
Speaker
We'll see if we, we'll see if we can do it.
01:11:30
Speaker
Cause you, you're probably going to be very busy getting ready to go.
01:11:33
Speaker
So we'll see what happens.
01:11:35
Speaker
So definitely hit up Josh.
01:11:37
Speaker
If you are going to expo and Hey, you know, if you see something cool message me, cause I'm want to live vicariously through you.
01:11:45
Speaker
So definitely let me know.
01:11:47
Speaker
All right, man.
01:11:48
Speaker
Well, if you want to get a hold of us, you can get a hold of us through loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
01:11:52
Speaker
We're also available on all the socials at loser pinball, whether it be Facebook, Instagram, X, tick tock, YouTube.
01:12:01
Speaker
If you haven't subscribed, you should do it.
01:12:03
Speaker
And same with our podcast and whatnot as well.
01:12:06
Speaker
We appreciate all the people that have been reaching out.
01:12:09
Speaker
Quick shout out to pinball hands.
01:12:11
Speaker
That is awesome.
01:12:13
Speaker
from the game people.
01:12:15
Speaker
He listened to our episode with Don and loves that we talked about his stuff.
01:12:19
Speaker
And he enjoys pinball podcasts and been listening to ours for a really long time, he said.
01:12:23
Speaker
And he enjoys that we talk, we stay mostly on topic.
01:12:27
Speaker
We don't talk about pizza toppings, which don't listen to our expo or our TPF episode.
01:12:34
Speaker
I guess that was more about people stealing pizza.
01:12:35
Speaker
Yeah, people stole pizza.
01:12:37
Speaker
It was pinball relevant.
01:12:38
Speaker
Yeah, it was very pinball relevant.
01:12:41
Speaker
If you're wearing any of our swag, hats, shoes, backpack, shirt, whatever,
01:12:46
Speaker
Take a picture with Josh.
01:12:47
Speaker
Find him at Expo.
01:12:48
Speaker
I want to see a picture.
01:12:49
Speaker
Definitely.
01:12:50
Speaker
And I'm going to be wearing my shoes, so we'll twin out.
01:12:53
Speaker
Okay.
01:12:53
Speaker
Sounds good.
01:12:54
Speaker
See you guys soon.
01:12:55
Speaker
See you soon.