Transcript
Speaker: Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
Speaker: This is episode 119.
Speaker: I am Josh Roop.
Speaker: With me, my co-captain, as always.
Speaker: Scott Larson.
Speaker: And Scott, it is, Expo is right around the corner.
Speaker: There's rumors of new games being revealed.
Speaker: If you want these games, who are you going to call?
Speaker: Well, I'm going to call Zach and Nicole Mini, just like I did when I ordered my...
Speaker: pinball alley sign.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Stern pop bumper sign.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So I ordered both of those and I'm super excited to get them downstairs.
Speaker: I actually have wanted, I wanted the old version of the pinball alley sign.
Speaker: This one's even cooler.
Speaker: This one is cool.
Speaker: And this one actually is open to the fans because before you had to be a dealer to get the pinball alley sign.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So, and actually that old pinball alley sign was like $3,000.
Speaker: Well, and this is 2000 and honestly, one of the toppers that have gone down in price.
Speaker: If it's a, if you want a five foot topper, I'm like, do you want a Mando topper?
Speaker: Do you want the stern alley pinball sign?
Speaker: I would say it looks really cool.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I will say the stern one, the, uh, the Mando one's still pretty cool.
Speaker: I know that's how cool the sign is.
Speaker: Yes, absolutely.
Speaker: This it's huge.
Speaker: So, yep, I would contact Zach and Nicole Minnie at Flippin' Out Pinball.
Speaker: They're always good.
Speaker: Good to hook you.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: So, Scott, it's been kind of it's been a really good two weeks.
Speaker: We just did the we're coming off the Bragg Brothers interview.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Which had an amazing response.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: First off, they came huge.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: They were engaging.
Speaker: They were really easy to talk to.
Speaker: And so any credit we get goes with having excellent guests.
Speaker: So I appreciate them coming on and taking the human side.
Speaker: I don't know if I read this to you.
Speaker: I don't know if Roger will be mad at me.
Speaker: Oh, go ahead.
Speaker: It's hilarious.
Speaker: Let me pull up an email that we got from Roger because Roger didn't know this was happening.
Speaker: I actually want to get Roger back on.
Speaker: Because now that we've both had time to see the movie a few times, it would be interesting to dissect it with them.
Speaker: It says Scott, Josh, Meredith, and Austin just spent a little over an hour being entertained by you all smiles on my faces and a wonderful surprise.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Thankfully, one of the highlight highlighted items in this week in pinball, because why wouldn't my son, Josh ever let me know that something was going to be aired?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I just love the jab right at Josh.
Speaker: I'm glad it's not just us.
Speaker: It's his dad, too.
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: Josh is actually one of the funniest guys I've ever met.
Speaker: And he's really good at returning the jab.
Speaker: So I appreciate that.
Speaker: That put a huge smile on my face.
Speaker: Anyways, just want to send a shout out.
Speaker: Take care.
Speaker: Meet the very much older Mr. Sharp.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It was great to get that.
Speaker: I mean, we've received more feedback on this episode than probably...
Speaker: For a while, yeah.
Speaker: Besides the Carrie Hardy episode, which we got a lot of feedback on as well.
Speaker: But it was a lot, not a single positive or not a single negative.
Speaker: Not a single positive.
Speaker: One star.
Speaker: But there was people that reached out and said they don't typically like the interview styles because they feel they're too cliche.
Speaker: And they felt like this was very, just very raw and smooth.
Speaker: And just they were impressed with how we were able to get the directors just like just talking with friends.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: They were again, they were they were great interviewees.
Speaker: So we feel very honored that they came on.
Speaker: amazing insight to the movie, which, which was a great, it's a great companion because a lot of times when you watch a movie, you're not really sure what you're going to get.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I would say everybody in pinball is still a little gun shy on anything that shines light on the hobby just because I mean, come on a special when lit it,
Speaker: it highlighted the oddities in the hobby to, and that's to put it, that's to put it kindly.
Speaker: I think it's free on, it's free on something right now.
Speaker: Cause I went back through it and you're right.
Speaker: It does kind of make us look like it.
Speaker: Well, it's, it seems like it's making a, making any fan look foolish.
Speaker: And yeah, if you have, if you have editorial control, then that seems a very vindictive thing to do.
Speaker: when you're interviewing someone sincerely and then you portray them in a negative light.
Speaker: I don't know if it's necessarily that,
Speaker: I can see it poorly, but it almost is like you got the most oddballs, not most oddballs.
Speaker: Let me apologize.
Speaker: You got some more of the unique personalities when we've had so many more enter into the hobby as of late.
Speaker: I mean, this was recorded in 2009.
Speaker: This is before ACDC.
Speaker: This is before the resurgence.
Speaker: And even Steve Ritchie, after that movie was brought out, he kind of was, you know, everyone felt like pinball was in a decline.
Speaker: Like it was not pinball was on life support.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it had a D it had a do not resuscitate label on it.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And it really was hurting.
Speaker: There was some glimpses.
Speaker: You've got Spider-Man in that era.
Speaker: You've got was Iron Man around that time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I, okay.
Speaker: So I actually did pull this up right before.
Speaker: So if you look at, okay, let's just say past Lord of the Rings.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So I would say Lord of the Rings was definitely a high point in two thousands.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: How many of these do you want to Lord of the Rings followed by Ripley's, believe it or not.
Speaker: It's actually a sleeper.
Speaker: That one is good.
Speaker: I'm not going to lie.
Speaker: You don't want to own it.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: You don't.
Speaker: Well, for the price, it's maybe not the price is commanding now, but maybe two years ago.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Elvis Sopranos, Grand Prix, NASCAR, world poker tour, pirates of the Caribbean, which is, which is good.
Speaker: I own that one.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Dale jr. Family guy, Spider-Man owned that one wheel of fortune, Indiana Jones, Batman, the dark night, Shrek, CSI 24 NBA, big buck hunter pro.
Speaker: And then Iron Man is in 2010.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, so we're right there at the cusp.
Speaker: But it's still pre-ACDC because I would really say ACDC was a turning point.
Speaker: Well, ACDC was actually the turning point and we'll get to that until later.
Speaker: Because after Iron Man, you have Avatar, Rolling Stones.
Speaker: Then you start the baby turn with Tron.
Speaker: Yeah, yep.
Speaker: And then Transformers.
Speaker: And then you really jump back onto the scene with ACDC.
Speaker: So it certainly was
Speaker: a business in crisis, a hobby in crisis.
Speaker: It really was.
Speaker: If you want to check out the movie yourself is on to be T U B I, you can check it out for free.
Speaker: No extra skin off your nose.
Speaker: Give us your opinion.
Speaker: Because I do, like I said, I think the problem was is like they're at the beginning.
Speaker: It even starts going through these people.
Speaker: They're like, well, I own 50 machines.
Speaker: And the one's like, I own 200 machines.
Speaker: And then there's like at one point, guys, like I own 1900 machines.
Speaker: And they're all kind of just like in a garage stacked up on top of each other.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And I mean, like I said, there's some highs and lows in that movie.
Speaker: It's a very unique look at pinball.
Speaker: And it's funny because I was talking to some higher-ups in the industry, and I said, hey, someone should do an updated documentary because the worst special one ended.
Speaker: It showed the graveyard.
Speaker: It was the dead pins in some sort of field, like forest.
Speaker: It was super depressing.
Speaker: Their recommendation was don't do it.
Speaker: Well, because I think they got burned.
Speaker: I'm sorry, you did.
Speaker: And, okay, we've all said it before that you and I have said the great thing about pinball is it is a place for everybody.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, regardless of religion, regardless of politics, regardless of...
Speaker: Gender orientation, color, et cetera.
Speaker: Like this is something that we can all just say, Hey, we are different.
Speaker: Let's play pinball.
Speaker: And it's a very chill hobby for the most part too.
Speaker: For the most part there, there are some, some, some drama trolls.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Some flare ups here and there.
Speaker: But for the most part, I would say people are very welcoming.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: So that it's, I'm,
Speaker: I'm sad that the, the most positive now it's been years since I've seen the show, but the most positive part was, I believe it's the orange County pinball where it talked about, they basically converted to a private collection.
Speaker: They had Lee, that was a very positive part because it showed people who are passionate and I, I, I'm a little weird.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So I, I'm sure if they interviewed me, I'd come off as, as very bizarre.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But it,
Speaker: It did show a genuine enthusiasm for it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But, you know, so anyway, I think actually the Roger Sharp movie is the best thing they could do.
Speaker: Yes, 100%.
Speaker: More than a documentary on how pinballs got back.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: The Man Who Saved Pinball is a fantastic film.
Speaker: We rewatched it right before having the Brack Brothers on.
Speaker: If you have not watched it yet, what are you doing?
Speaker: It's on Amazon.
Speaker: It's on Vudu.
Speaker: Go rent it.
Speaker: It's on Hulu right now.
Speaker: If you've got a subscription to Hulu, go watch it.
Speaker: It is amazing.
Speaker: It truly is.
Speaker: Well, I got a list of stuff.
Speaker: Let's get going on it.
Speaker: I know it's not on my list, but I just remembered about two weeks ago, a week ago, I went out to see a concert.
Speaker: I went to go see New Found Glory and All American Rejects, Motion City Soundtrack, and The Get Up Kids.
Speaker: I had very little time.
Speaker: So I had 30 minutes before the concert.
Speaker: I stopped by, found a Venom Pro, played it.
Speaker: I got to tell you, this game is like the epitome of a 90s Williams game.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Maybe not.
Speaker: It might be minus the mechs.
Speaker: The premium might be more that way.
Speaker: When I say epitome, a 90s game, it's fan layout.
Speaker: The rules are pretty much like,
Speaker: stack the stuff and do the one thing like reminds me of monster bash where you follow the column.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like you, you try to line up all the monsters and then you set them all off at one time, ending on Frankenstein.
Speaker: So you can just destroy the game.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And I feel like fandoms very much that way as well.
Speaker: You do the things you stall out of multi ball.
Speaker: You can actually hold off on your multi ball, more balls.
Speaker: You got the more your, your score goes up.
Speaker: Really fun game.
Speaker: My overall consensus right now,
Speaker: It's not a game I'd want in my collection.
Speaker: And maybe it's because it's got safe progress.
Speaker: So it's more convincing to go out onto location, play it on location, and I can store my progress.
Speaker: And I'm not spending money on a machine or moving something out of my collection that I'm not ready to leave yet, right?
Speaker: Plus the code's still early.
Speaker: I kind of want to see what Dwight does.
Speaker: Dwight, it seems like if you've never owned a Dwight game, I've only had people.
Speaker: You have to wait.
Speaker: Well, not only that, it kind of seems like the code shifts.
Speaker: It's almost entirely different game from where it begins to where it ends.
Speaker: And it can have a big reboot in the middle.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: So the skeleton stays the same, but the muscles get beefed up, right?
Speaker: Like you go from Scarny kid to buff kid.
Speaker: So it really is a fun game.
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: Great on you, Eddie.
Speaker: Great on you, Dwight.
Speaker: And everyone in the team that did Venom.
Speaker: I feel bad because I feel like this game just has stalled out, right?
Speaker: And it's only been out for a month.
Speaker: And I really think people should go out, give it a chance.
Speaker: You're only spending a couple bucks.
Speaker: Do your two for three, whatever it is.
Speaker: Go play this game.
Speaker: Get an opinion of it.
Speaker: I enjoyed it.
Speaker: Like I said, I still don't think it's for my collection, but not every game is.
Speaker: I still would be interested in
Speaker: I would be more interested if there were premiums on location saying that that's the challenge is that I, the game is significantly different between the pro and the premium because the ball paths change.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And you have iron maiden behind you iron maiden between pro and premium.
Speaker: It's pretty much the same layout.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Even you could argue Avengers,
Speaker: You could argue Avengers Infinity Quest is pretty much the same game except for the subway and the Captain Marvel shot.
Speaker: But everything else is pretty much there.
Speaker: You're not going to get the different ball paths on the pro.
Speaker: It is what it is.
Speaker: And so that's why I would really still like to play a premium to fully assess the game.
Speaker: However, this may be the first game that actually thrives on location in that people are able to save their progress because no other game does that right now.
Speaker: So this is a risk.
Speaker: We've talked about it.
Speaker: This is a risk for Stern.
Speaker: It's a different layout.
Speaker: It's a more simple layout, I mean, but it does have that option that people may want that second coin drop.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: Speaking of Eddie games, stranger things was just announced that they vaulted on Tuesday.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It doesn't seem like there's much difference from the original to what they have now.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Well, there is a difference between the original and this one.
Speaker: What's that?
Speaker: It's $2,000 more.
Speaker: That is true.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: Well, even the pro, what did the pro come out at?
Speaker: I don't remember, but it was.
Speaker: Keep going.
Speaker: But do you think, obviously they're trying to meet a demand, right?
Speaker: Like we saw during COVID how much of demand there was for this game.
Speaker: Do you think it cooled off too much?
Speaker: Do you think it was still smart to remake this?
Speaker: Yes, it was smart to remake it.
Speaker: it takes very limited resources.
Speaker: If they're able to renew the license, they're able to, to spit some out.
Speaker: How long did they spit out Star Trek?
Speaker: It was like every year they're like, Hey, and new and new Star Trek's coming out.
Speaker: So they, they can kick out 200, 300 with stranger things.
Speaker: Who knows?
Speaker: How many do you think they're going to make a thousand?
Speaker: How many, like there's maybe, but yeah,
Speaker: If they have the parts and they just need to manufacture those, they can put it online to fill a need.
Speaker: And we have talked to them before about in the Williams days, it was like, hey, just run it until it dies.
Speaker: And then you swap it.
Speaker: And that's pretty much the run.
Speaker: Stern's current model is that you can plug it back in if the demand's there.
Speaker: And the demand was obviously there.
Speaker: Was there enough demand to warrant how many they're making?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: They're also, this does cost basically almost $2,000 more.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And you still have to buy the UV kit and install it.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I would be more interested if the game came in a premium with the UV kit installed.
Speaker: Just because that it's also $2,000 and you add the $300 for that.
Speaker: That pushes it close to $10,000.
Speaker: Is it a $10,000 game?
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: Maybe for some.
Speaker: I still hold to the fact that I have Attack for Mars and that's not going anywhere because my kids won't let me.
Speaker: So I'm not going to have both of those in my collection.
Speaker: But there are people who really love Stranger Things and they want that theme.
Speaker: Okay, so when I originally released, the Pro was $6,100, which now it's $7,000.
Speaker: So $900 isn't, like, I mean.
Speaker: Not too much.
Speaker: You can really chalk that up to inflation.
Speaker: Yeah, that's inflation.
Speaker: I mean, everything else is inflated right now.
Speaker: When did this originally drop?
Speaker: December 30th, 2019 is when the original.
Speaker: Four years ago, yeah.
Speaker: So four years ago.
Speaker: Okay, premium, $7,700 versus now it's $9,700.
Speaker: So you're right.
Speaker: It is $2,000 difference.
Speaker: It's $2,000.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And a limited edition, $9,100.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: And if it was nowadays, it would be $13,000.
Speaker: Which, honestly, anyone will tell you the most moneymaker is the limited edition.
Speaker: Well, the most margin for them.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Most margin.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: But if you really take the premium, you take the projector out of it and the kinetic telekinetic magnet.
Speaker: Wait, you mean if you take the pro?
Speaker: What I'm saying, if you took the premium and you took that stuff out, you have the pro.
Speaker: I mean, there's really not much difference.
Speaker: So it's funny because... Don't get me wrong.
Speaker: I love the projector.
Speaker: I think the projector is amazing.
Speaker: I'm a big fan of Pinball 2000.
Speaker: It heralds back to that for me.
Speaker: I feel like they were... That Brian Eddy was trying to make the game he never was able to when Pinball 2000 came out.
Speaker: Probably, yeah.
Speaker: But I just... At this point, I had...
Speaker: what I say, 6,100 versus 77, $1,600 difference.
Speaker: I guess really it's only a $400 difference when it, when it first came out.
Speaker: I still just don't know if it's worth $2,000 difference now.
Speaker: I think it is to the right person.
Speaker: And there are still people who connect with this theme.
Speaker: I would say the theme has cooled off a little bit.
Speaker: I still have not seen stranger things.
Speaker: So I know I'm an outlier.
Speaker: But that's... It's selling... I would say it's selling well enough.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I think there was enough for location and that's where they're going.
Speaker: Yes, it kills on location.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Absolutely kills on location.
Speaker: I think, honestly... While I waited for Venom, I had...
Speaker: I stood in line and I played a stranger things cause no one was playing it.
Speaker: It is a really good game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's attack from Mars ask.
Speaker: I will give it that I do the, enjoy the ramp.
Speaker: I do enjoy, I love the achievements now attached to it before that didn't have that right.
Speaker: It released in 2019.
Speaker: It was not insider connected, but if you, if you drop the, I don't know what's called the shield, the ramp, whatever it is.
Speaker: And you see the Demogorgon.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And you kill it first shot, which you get right in the hole instead of hitting it on its lips or whatever it is.
Speaker: Did they fix it so you can get it in the hole?
Speaker: Yeah, I was able to.
Speaker: Okay, because that was one of the huge problems with the original is that you would get brick after brick.
Speaker: Yeah, so I got it, and it gives you an achievement called Hole in One.
Speaker: And so I thought that was pretty comical.
Speaker: I enjoyed that.
Speaker: I still don't understand the little launch thing on the left, similar to the catapult and minute of madness, but stuff coming all the way around and wrapping back to you.
Speaker: This shoots at the, the drop targets.
Speaker: And I don't know if it's pretty much just like, Oh, I ricocheted in there and this is my consequence.
Speaker: I can't remember if there's really any purpose to get into that hole versus just pure consequence of being in there.
Speaker: Other than that, I thought it was a good game.
Speaker: It's very, very fast.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: I would honestly, I don't know.
Speaker: I don't know if I'd want Stranger Things over Venom.
Speaker: I probably would want Stranger Things over Venom in my collection.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And this is the problem.
Speaker: You have two eddie games that came out within a month of each other.
Speaker: One is a proven re-release.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: One of them is a new concept.
Speaker: So it's a little risky.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: But maybe Stern is playing the long game and Venom is a test case.
Speaker: They may see how it does.
Speaker: And even if they have to pivot with the initial production, if the license can't be that expensive, they could probably renew it and keep making that for a while.
Speaker: Well, do you want to know a dirty little secret if you've never noticed this?
Speaker: So when a designer or a coater, sorry, it's more of the coder than it is the designer.
Speaker: But when the coder slash designer is making their new game, they will take the base of their last game and they'll shift stuff around.
Speaker: They'll improve upon it.
Speaker: If you remember when James Bond came out last year, it was very early.
Speaker: It was like 0.6 code, right?
Speaker: But it was Lonnie Ropp who was doing the code on that.
Speaker: And the last thing he had done was Stranger Things.
Speaker: It still had the Stranger Things
Speaker: Yeah, it did.
Speaker: And so that was unfortunate.
Speaker: So my point being is, is when you're getting, when you're getting a Godzilla, you're essentially getting Avengers, Jurassic Park and Iron Maiden, all the codes all there for that.
Speaker: but it's being shifted around.
Speaker: It's being approved upon.
Speaker: It's being molded into a new pot, right?
Speaker: Like the scaffolding's there and they're just moving walls.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: So, so Venom where I'm going with this, sorry.
Speaker: Venom, I think is always going to be now a Dwight thing where it has experience points built into the code.
Speaker: I could be wrong.
Speaker: I could, they could be like, no, we're never doing that again.
Speaker: They could,
Speaker: I think they will.
Speaker: That drives people to location and makes people say, hey, I don't have to start from scratch every time.
Speaker: You get that with modern gamers.
Speaker: That's what they're trying to go after, right?
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: You're getting at the people who want to build the experience.
Speaker: So they put all this into Venom.
Speaker: So now that system has been built.
Speaker: It will move on to the next one.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think they're preparing too because Spike 3 is supposed to be coming out sooner rather than later.
Speaker: So it'll be interesting to see how that advances code and depth as well.
Speaker: I mean, these games are insanely deep.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Anywho, so I guess what's your overall verdict of Stranger Things?
Speaker: I don't know if it, I don't think it cannibalizes off Venom sales.
Speaker: So it's not really a competitor to Venom.
Speaker: If you're going to be interested in Stranger Things, then absolutely pick this up.
Speaker: That's pretty much the going rate of games.
Speaker: And it may be unfair to say, well, it's $2,000 more, but it's the same game.
Speaker: Because we have...
Speaker: four years of inflation and some crazy things that happen in the market.
Speaker: So I, that is, even though it's true, you know, it's, that's part of the scheme of pinball is that you're going to have pay increases.
Speaker: Same thing.
Speaker: Same with cars, right?
Speaker: Same with cars.
Speaker: Heck, even look at Little Caesars.
Speaker: It's the first time they've had an inflation or price increase in the last like 20 some odd years.
Speaker: And it was a 50% markup.
Speaker: I mean, it was not cheap by any means.
Speaker: I mean, it was 40%.
Speaker: I mean, it went from $5 to $7 or 750.
Speaker: Yeah, up to eight now, isn't it?
Speaker: I can't remember.
Speaker: I don't really... The only Little Caesars version I like is the Detroit style, which is basically the old deep dish square version.
Speaker: That's the only one I like.
Speaker: They take their Italian cheese bread and put some pepperonis on top.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: All right, let's move on.
Speaker: We've got Pinball Expo coming up.
Speaker: I don't know if we'll record before the next Expo.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: Because we're literally two weeks from yesterday is when the stuff will start.
Speaker: So things we're looking forward to, I guess you'll be home.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: I'm working.
Speaker: So party pooper.
Speaker: It'll be, it'll be interesting.
Speaker: I'll, I'll definitely be talking to Josh throughout the event and Josh will have the, the 3.0 hats.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So I just put the order in for those on Monday.
Speaker: So awesome.
Speaker: They promised me they would have them all by next Friday.
Speaker: And we had quite the response to those holy crap.
Speaker: And they're great hats.
Speaker: So I'm wearing one right now.
Speaker: Well, we gave the option of the new 3.0s and the existing 2.0s.
Speaker: So we had a handful of the new whites.
Speaker: The snapback.
Speaker: Holy crap.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: A lot of people like those.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It was great.
Speaker: I think we ended up go 15 snapbacks as I think what I ended up ordering.
Speaker: That was just the black, not including the white.
Speaker: It was pretty crazy response on that.
Speaker: But anywho.
Speaker: So we have four reveals coming out here at Expo.
Speaker: We've got people that have confirmed the mystery company is releasing a labyrinth.
Speaker: Do you think this is a good choice for a pinball theme?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I saw Labyrinth last year after never having seen Labyrinth before.
Speaker: And I could not understand why people like this movie.
Speaker: It's a terrible movie, legit terrible.
Speaker: Like there's, it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker: And
Speaker: If they're totally tapping into that nostalgia thing, go ahead.
Speaker: It has zero connection to me.
Speaker: What about you, Josh?
Speaker: Honestly, I don't know if it's sacrilegious or not, but I've never seen Labyrinth.
Speaker: It's classic for some.
Speaker: It's a classic for my age group.
Speaker: It's one of those things.
Speaker: I would put it in the Goonies category that for some reason so many people connected with it.
Speaker: Not sure that the same group is going to buy Labyrinth because I don't think it's not like one of those things where it's like, hey, it's Mario and the younger generation connects with it.
Speaker: I guarantee my kids watch Labyrinth.
Speaker: They're just like, this is kind of weird.
Speaker: I'm like, yeah, yeah, it was kind of weird.
Speaker: Oddly though, like dark crystals getting resurgence and has its own new series on net.
Speaker: Well, it did, but it, it only lasted one season.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Well, Netflix has been killing everything.
Speaker: It was actually, I thought it was good.
Speaker: I didn't think it was great.
Speaker: I thought it was good, but super expensive to make, The Dark Crystal.
Speaker: So they were getting really into the lore of the Gelflings and the Clans and how the Skeksis were basically esteemed as a prophet figure, but they were...
Speaker: unknowingly very dark.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I thought it was going into a very interesting realm, but it, it obviously didn't last long enough for them to decide they want to renew it.
Speaker: So overall, so your thought is this may or may not hit hit or miss just depends on how it looks.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I, I don't have a good feel.
Speaker: It's, it's not for me.
Speaker: So I I'll be curious to see other people and let us know, let us know if labyrinth is one of your dream themes.
Speaker: I don't hear it ever as being floated before though.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So there's those wish list of rumors.
Speaker: We're like, I wish this game would be made.
Speaker: And I don't remember Labyrinth being high on that list.
Speaker: I think it is smart, though, coming out of the gate with a license.
Speaker: You have to.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: You have to.
Speaker: If there's anything...
Speaker: If there's anything that data East slash Stern proved is that licensing sells games.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: 100%.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So the next release that's coming to expo is elements by pinball adventures.
Speaker: What are your thoughts on this one?
Speaker: Scott, I guess I'll see what the demand will be.
Speaker: I would say punny factory h ad a mixed release.
Speaker: To be fair, the, there were some problems with manufacturing, but Spooky's American air America's most haunted wasn't, it was, it was a first run option.
Speaker: It was, it was learning how to cut your teeth in the pinball industry.
Speaker: And they've been able to, to build a company for themselves.
Speaker: So is it possible?
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: This seems to be like the art is very interesting.
Speaker: It looks like a 70s fantasy sci-fi vibe.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so if that's what you're looking for, it kind of borders on like a Dungeons and Dragons art vibe.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So we'll see if that connects with audiences.
Speaker: What are you thinking, Josh?
Speaker: it's one of those games that I'm going to have to play it to see what I think.
Speaker: And I really don't have much interest in it besides.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It, it, it may be fun though.
Speaker: I mean, Hot Wheels was, Hot Wheels was way more fun than I thought it was going to be.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'll agree with that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So that was, that was a theme that I was like, I don't know about this, but it actually works well.
Speaker: for that game.
Speaker: So we'll see if this is able to do the same thing.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: It'll be interesting to see what they can do.
Speaker: You are looking for niche collectors though, just because unless you have 10, 15 games, you're probably not going to take a risk on this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Next game, a pinball machine for non-pinball people at a pinball convention.
Speaker: Home pin with their third game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: This guy is not easy to like.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: He really has given the proverbial middle finger to pinball players.
Speaker: He's also given the middle finger to Americans.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So you're coming to Expo and showing a game in a pinball game.
Speaker: in a pinball centric expo in the United States of America, where you have by your own admission, you had bad experience with four customers.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It'll be interesting to see how it's received.
Speaker: If I remember in the interview, he said he wasn't going to sell to people in America anyway.
Speaker: I could be wrong.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I'm hoping that people get second chances.
Speaker: We'll see.
Speaker: None of his other choices have been...
Speaker: something I'm interested in.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I, I doubt that he's going to find a lot of people buying it.
Speaker: It seems like he's going off theme.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And it's on, it's, uh, the equivalent of a zizzle.
Speaker: He, he flat out admitted that codes were not, our code was not that interesting for him.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So you're making a game that, that beeps and dings, but,
Speaker: And you're supposed to drink it at a bar or sorry, you're supposed to play it while drinking at a bar with your friends.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So we'll, we'll see that that is not going to fly well in a pinball players area because people are looking for code and they're looking for something to put in their house that they're not going to get bored of in a month.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Or bored of on the second ball.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's why Stern and Indiana Jones really isn't well received.
Speaker: You can have an amazing thing, but if it's, I don't know.
Speaker: I guess I haven't seen the sales numbers on either.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Me neither.
Speaker: It'll be interesting.
Speaker: I will look and see what is released.
Speaker: And I will anticipate you guys giving me a report to say how well it's played.
Speaker: Yep, I will play it and let you know if I'm allowed to play it after I went off.
Speaker: He tends to hold grudges, and so it'll be interesting to see if he even knows who I am.
Speaker: Don't want that kid over here.
Speaker: Yeah, I doubt it.
Speaker: 2,500 is how many they produced of Stern Indiana Jones, by the way.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So it'll be interesting to see how it's received.
Speaker: It's more of an oddity.
Speaker: I know a lot of people who are Spinal Tap fans that even that theme was not enough to make them want to buy this game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: And the fourth one, if it's true, JJP revealing Elton John.
Speaker: Sorry, Elton John is the rumor.
Speaker: But supposedly JJP is geared up and ready to show at Expo, which is less than eight months between Godfather and Elton John.
Speaker: That's pretty impressive.
Speaker: They've promised they're going to start pushing out every nine months.
Speaker: And so we're there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I think JJP makes, they make great games.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They, so Guns N' Roses is an amazing immersive experience.
Speaker: Toy Story, the biggest criticism I had for Toy Story was the price.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It seemed like an awesome $8,500 game that was packaged in a $12,500 sales thing.
Speaker: So that was, that was my stumbling block on toy story.
Speaker: However, I think it's a fun game and I would own toy story right now for the right price.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Godfather is it's a, it's a very specific theme for a very specific audience.
Speaker: Are you going to tap into the same audience with Elton John?
Speaker: Because you are in that, you know, seventies nostalgia.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So are you going to be able to capture enough people who are in their sixties who are interested in buying, buying Elton John?
Speaker: I think the thing too is, is JB JJP does a great job with colorful flamboyant games.
Speaker: I mean, was it her of Oz with the rainbow?
Speaker: I mean, guns and roses felt very colorful.
Speaker: I, and I feel like,
Speaker: concert machines are their niche.
Speaker: It'll look great.
Speaker: I guarantee it'll look great.
Speaker: I'm really intrigued to see because Steve Ritchie is mostly known for fast play.
Speaker: It doesn't seem to be the fit for him.
Speaker: He's more of a hard rock guy, not a 70s pop guy.
Speaker: There was some heavier stuff that he produced, but still point being.
Speaker: Elton John?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Maybe Saturday night's all right for fighting.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: It's, it's great, but he's also known for like Daniel song and, but we're also talking to Matt about a man that his, his hits were sixties and seventies, right?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Am I going too early with sixties?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Uh, seventies was really his, his wheelhouse.
Speaker: He still had some things in the eighties too.
Speaker: But 70s was really his era.
Speaker: So you're looking at it's 50 years later.
Speaker: So people who were in their 20s.
Speaker: So you're looking at 70 year olds.
Speaker: Skyline Pigeon, 69.
Speaker: Goodbye.
Speaker: Let's see.
Speaker: Rocketman, 72.
Speaker: We're looking at that.
Speaker: And there's some stuff in the 80s as well.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: I just don't look at this.
Speaker: Captain Fantastic is a 70s game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I just don't look at these songs, though, and just think, concert pin.
Speaker: And granted, I've never seen Elton John Live.
Speaker: I have really good.
Speaker: He's a really good, I've seen him live.
Speaker: He's a, he's a great player and a great entertainer.
Speaker: But he like his songs, he is 70.
Speaker: So it's, it's people in his age demographic who will likely be buying this pin.
Speaker: However, if it's done really well, then it could be one of those, those old as new things.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It'll be, I'm most curious about this because it'll be interesting to see the supposition was that Steve was not able to make the games that he wanted because of the constraints on building materials.
Speaker: Now, the rumor is everybody has the same building materials and so everybody uses those differently.
Speaker: So is that a designer issue or is he just...
Speaker: not know how to caught, like make something more cost effective.
Speaker: I felt black night would have been a much better game if they were able to put something up on that upper play field other than the cannon.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I, or the catapult, excuse me.
Speaker: I would have, I would have rather had pop bumpers, targets, whatever on that upper play field and ditch the whole catapult thing.
Speaker: But yeah,
Speaker: Who knows?
Speaker: Maybe a new company, new environment.
Speaker: Steve may pull a rabbit out of his hat.
Speaker: See, and I'm really intrigued by this because like you said, Steve has said time and time again in interview after interview since his departure from Stern that he was hamstrung or handcuffed because of the bill of material.
Speaker: Let's talk his last three games really quick.
Speaker: Just really quickly.
Speaker: Led Zeppelin, which in my opinion is just Star Trek
Speaker: But crap, not crap, your design, sorry.
Speaker: The shots are a little more tight, but findable, I guess.
Speaker: It's a more challenging shot selection.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Star Trek, I mean, it's wide open.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Like you can hit those ramps.
Speaker: Led Zeppelin is not that easy.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: Black Knight Sword of Rage, which I really think is a good game.
Speaker: It felt like there was something missing, though.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, the pros actually better than the premium because plays better.
Speaker: But the year, if you're going to do a release, it's, it would like to be doing a star Wars sequel, but
Speaker: like without, you know, you're like, Hey, we're making a sequel to empire strikes back, but it's not going to have Yoda or the force in it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Kind of how it felt with an empty play field, uh, play field.
Speaker: Excuse me.
Speaker: And I just didn't see the cost difference for the upper play field and grand the toppers, one of the best toppers in, in pinball was awesome.
Speaker: I actually just sold my topper.
Speaker: Thanks.
Speaker: I, my, my friend actually sold his black night Ellie cause he wanted a pro.
Speaker: And so he texted and said, hey, would you be willing to sell me the topper on the contingency that if you want it back when I sell it, then you can buy it?
Speaker: And I said, sure.
Speaker: I really think the mech for that was cool.
Speaker: But overall, it fell flat sales wise.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Star Wars, which is obviously going to sell no matter what you put in it.
Speaker: They've proven that time and time again.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I still felt like this was another.
Speaker: Felt empty.
Speaker: It did.
Speaker: It just, I was, I wanted an Ellie and once it was released, I backed out.
Speaker: It's one of the few games where I actually backed out after I saw it and I don't regret backing out.
Speaker: Game of Thrones.
Speaker: I would argue that's probably his last.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Game of Thrones.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Theme's a big thing for me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that's not my theme.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: I guess Star Wars was a hit in the regards that like it sold a lot.
Speaker: It was.
Speaker: It was every.
Speaker: I still see it on location.
Speaker: It's still.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But Game of Thrones was really good.
Speaker: And then before that, you've got Star Trek.
Speaker: Then ACDC.
Speaker: 24.
Speaker: Spider-Man.
Speaker: World Poker Tour, which was amazing.
Speaker: It was a really good game.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Elvis, which was all right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Terminator three, which was really good.
Speaker: I just looking for when he started at Stern to Terminator three, it just feels like some of these games are revered as some of the best games ever made.
Speaker: Some of them.
Speaker: I mean, heck you, we, we account ACDC for the revival of pinball.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: ACDC is an unqualified home run.
Speaker: Yes, absolutely.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Star Trek's amazing.
Speaker: It's a fun game.
Speaker: It really is.
Speaker: So you have ACDC, you have Star Trek.
Speaker: The other ones, I would say, were more good efforts, but I wouldn't say a long-term owner.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I guess overall, it's going to be interesting because Steve Ritchie has proved that he can make a good game.
Speaker: Like I said, those last three were a little rough, especially Led Zeppelin.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It's going to be interesting.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Especially with Elton John, I feel like is a hurdle to get over.
Speaker: I'm not hearing anyone that's like, oh, I just Elton John is the game, right?
Speaker: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker: I think he could pull it off.
Speaker: There's certainly a lot of catchy songs and you don't have to have a rock band to do it.
Speaker: It could be, he has a lot of fast songs and so it can still be done right.
Speaker: And not everything has to be like a, you know, it has to be a rock band.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: It doesn't.
Speaker: I mean, pink would be a great, I've said it before.
Speaker: Pink would be a great pinball machine.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Bruno Mars.
Speaker: Bruno Mars.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I was listening to the Ramones to him.
Speaker: Like, why hasn't this ever been made?
Speaker: They were banned from the sixties slash seventies.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They, no, no.
Speaker: It seems like most people remember the Ramones for who they are and maybe what they represented to the punk scene.
Speaker: I'm not sure too many people are still listening to the Ramones though.
Speaker: We talk about it was, it's been like the last three Spider-Man movies.
Speaker: It's been Shazam.
Speaker: I mean, it's okay.
Speaker: I feel like there's still some relevance to Ramones that even you get tired of the Ramones, like many people, not me, but many people felt like they get tired of iron maidens music.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Alrighty.
Speaker: So we have, we have a couple of minutes left and we got hit up by kineticis.
Speaker: So Colin over there says that let's do a big collab.
Speaker: And what we're going to do right now is we're going to talk about our top five favorite current pinball machines.
Speaker: Let's just do a quick synopsis because a lot of these games, Scott and I kind of discussed this because it kind of leaves open some room.
Speaker: We're going to try to aim for games from 2012 to now because that's current and kind of what we're playing most.
Speaker: So I guess let's, let's Scott, do you want to start off with number five?
Speaker: Let's go five down to one who, wow.
Speaker: I don't know if I could rank them all.
Speaker: Do you want me to go first then?
Speaker: Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I'm going to go in the number five spot.
Speaker: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
Speaker: I think it is a great throwback to nineties games.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Mode based, very straightforward.
Speaker: Shoot this, do that.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I loved the music.
Speaker: The voice call-outs were great.
Speaker: There were some shortcomings.
Speaker: The animation was a little rough.
Speaker: But overall, it was a game that I always was enjoying stepping up to.
Speaker: I sadly sold mine, but to get to Godzilla.
Speaker: But really, I still think if you want a good game,
Speaker: butt kicking game.
Speaker: It's Ninja Turtles.
Speaker: And if you're into tournaments and you're in a tournament and there's a turtles in there and you know how to play it, you do have the advantage.
Speaker: I know a lot of people steer away from it.
Speaker: Last tournament I played with the turtles in it.
Speaker: I always went to it and I kicked butt.
Speaker: So if you can learn a turtles, it's definitely to advantage to you.
Speaker: So what's yours, Scott?
Speaker: What's your number five?
Speaker: Number five.
Speaker: I am going to say looking over
Speaker: This one's going to be a little bit of a throwback from 2012 on.
Speaker: I'm still going to put Metallica in there.
Speaker: Metallica is a great game.
Speaker: It moved a ton of units.
Speaker: I will say, I think everybody has moved on from Metallica, but I'm still going to put which Borg am I going to put in the top
Speaker: would I in, in this hurts me, but would I put Metallica in or what I put rush in?
Speaker: And I think Metallica just edges out just because of it's, it's brutal.
Speaker: It's hard, but it's also lean like rush is awesome, but it seems like there's a little more going on.
Speaker: So I'm going to give Metallica bonus points for accomplishing something amazing on a smaller scale.
Speaker: then rush.
Speaker: So I'll put Metallica in there.
Speaker: I, I don't disagree with you.
Speaker: It's, it's a really good game.
Speaker: Number four for me, I'm going to go with Avengers infinity quest.
Speaker: This is a game I keep consistently coming back to.
Speaker: It's one that I do have to put down for a little bit, but when I come back, I still, the flow on this game is amazing.
Speaker: I don't know if there's a better shooting game out there right now, which makes me feel sad because Avengers, for some odd reason, has put at the bottom of one's list.
Speaker: But still, at 24 or 25 is the spot.
Speaker: You can't complain with those results.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: It's still great.
Speaker: It's still a great game.
Speaker: I love being able to – I think the hiccup is people always focus on the gems.
Speaker: And really the object of the game is to assemble your Avengers and go after Thanos and do that three times.
Speaker: but the gems are so fun.
Speaker: There's just something about starting reality, spin ripping that disc, getting all the lights lit up and getting a multi ball in there with it and just start slaying it.
Speaker: And it is awesome.
Speaker: It's one of the few games that the shots go up.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They go up on the play field and it is, it's really cool.
Speaker: I wish that the captain Marvel shot were a little more dialed in.
Speaker: But yes, it is.
Speaker: Every time I think of, okay, well, which one do I...
Speaker: which Elwynn game would I sell?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Sadly, it is the one that, that bubbles up, but then I go play it and it's like, this is so different than the other ones.
Speaker: I can't.
Speaker: It's funny though, because to me, like Avengers is more refined, which obviously it should be than Iron Maiden.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But Iron Maiden gets such a higher praise.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But I don't know if it's because it was his first game and people just was like, wow, don't get me wrong.
Speaker: I do enjoy Iron Maiden.
Speaker: I own it.
Speaker: I have the pro right there.
Speaker: You can see it in my screen.
Speaker: But there's a clunkiness to Iron Maiden that I don't enjoy.
Speaker: When you hit a shot and it doesn't register because the ball came up off the path, it gets frustrating.
Speaker: Where in Avengers, I feel like
Speaker: Minus the Captain Marvel ramp, which I have mine dialed in, so it punishes you if you don't hit it clean.
Speaker: If you hit it clean, it's going around 10 on.
Speaker: It's great.
Speaker: Yeah, it feels so smooth.
Speaker: Mine feels like butter, so I have no complaints with my Captain Marvel.
Speaker: But just once I got my Avengers dialed in, every shot registers.
Speaker: I feel like I earned my score in that game.
Speaker: Where with Iron Maiden, there's been multiple times I've gotten to the end and something's ricocheted.
Speaker: And again, it's pinball.
Speaker: That's pinball, right?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: But that's like one of the reasons I don't like Houdini.
Speaker: Like Houdini ricochets so bad out of the theater that I just, I don't want to play a game where I get frustrated.
Speaker: I want to play a game I enjoy.
Speaker: Or I feel like if I did lose, it's because of my fault, not because the game was crappy.
Speaker: So that's my number four, Avengers.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: My number four is Stranger Things.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: I would say that it started out and yes, people looked at it and said, ah, geez, we've seen this before.
Speaker: However, every single two flipper game has the same shots.
Speaker: I'm going to break it to you.
Speaker: There's basically seven shots that you can make off those flippers.
Speaker: And so if you're doing a fan, a two flipper game, it's going to feel the same.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Now it was cut short and I'm really glad they brought it back because it is an upgraded version of revenge from Mars, which is, or excuse me, attack from Mars, which is a classic.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So it's doing it equal and it's equally good, but updated.
Speaker: So I'm going to take stranger things as my number four.
Speaker: And I'm glad that people have the ability to buy it.
Speaker: Now, if you want it and you missed out, buy it.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So my number three, I am going to go with guns and roses.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: This game is full immersion.
Speaker: You always talk about world under glass.
Speaker: This is it.
Speaker: Like Stern might be the Kings of tournament playing or anything like that.
Speaker: But just the, just you feel like you're in a Guns N' Roses concert.
Speaker: It just, it feels so good.
Speaker: It's cool to see like having different items from the band members on the play field, like the drumsticks as a ramp and just building up that combo.
Speaker: And, and, you know, it's that whole risk reward factor built into it.
Speaker: It's a really fun game.
Speaker: It's a beautiful game.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: I think overall, it's one of the pinnacles for Jersey Jack.
Speaker: It may not be mechanically the best, like Pirates of the Caribbean, which I would almost tie...
Speaker: with guns and roses for my third but i really there's something about guns and roses the the the light show that is immersed and connected to the footage of the game it it's just so mensmerizing playing this game or watching someone else play it it takes a little bit to get into that that is my only one downfall is is
Speaker: you don't really feel like you can enjoy the game until you get stuff going.
Speaker: And it takes, it takes a little bit to get going, but once you open up this game, it's a blast.
Speaker: So, okay.
Speaker: So that's your number, uh, number three.
Speaker: My number three is Deadpool.
Speaker: Deadpool had that boomerang action where when it came out, people said, ah,
Speaker: This is simple.
Speaker: This is a throwback.
Speaker: This is not worth your time.
Speaker: Nothing to write home about.
Speaker: As people got to play it more and more, there is, maybe this is a theme on my preference on pinball machines, but there is an elegance to simplicity, especially when it's done well.
Speaker: And Deadpool is a simple game that is done so well.
Speaker: It is the game that I moved upstairs so I could move Cactus Canyon down.
Speaker: But it was kind of because it was the main game I was going to and I needed to swap it up.
Speaker: I still have no interest in selling it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I swapped it out of my collection so I would be driven to play some of these other games.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So Deadpool is my number three.
Speaker: great, great game.
Speaker: And it's one that I consider putting on my list.
Speaker: And that's glad you put it in yours.
Speaker: Cause I'm like, it needs some recognition.
Speaker: It is right.
Speaker: And I want to, I, okay.
Speaker: I'm cheating a little bit because when you put guns and roses in, I, I wanted to make room for, for other games in the list because I'm, I'm glad that you put guns and roses in because yes, you are right.
Speaker: That it is an experience.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I, uh,
Speaker: Again, I prefer the streamlined approach of a Deadpool.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: I don't know if this one's considered cheating since we said games from 2012, like ACDC to newer.
Speaker: But this game did get a remake in 2017.
Speaker: Attack for Mars, and it has to be the LE.
Speaker: That topper is just one of the best, make you smile, goofiest.
Speaker: I don't regret selling any of my pinball machines, but if I could get one back, I really think it'd be my Attack for Mars.
Speaker: It was once described to me that Attack from Mars is like the epitome of pinball, right?
Speaker: It is just fun, joy in a box.
Speaker: And the way that Chicago Gaming Company has updated this game with the mirror blades and the LEDs and just the sound is so good, so good on a CGC.
Speaker: It's funny.
Speaker: I almost say they don't need shaker motors because you turn those up and you'll feel the game shaking in your hand.
Speaker: They're built like a tank.
Speaker: There's a reason that these games are highly sought after and resell for high prices.
Speaker: I really wish Chicago Gaming Company would release a new game once a year and then do a vault.
Speaker: Either the same year or the next year.
Speaker: Give yourself, because it takes a couple years for them to come out with a game.
Speaker: Please, Doug, if you're listening, you've got to start putting out more of these games.
Speaker: There's still a high demand.
Speaker: I know that pinball is tapering off in the market, but there's still a high demand for Medieval Madness Attack from Mars.
Speaker: I mean, people are even looking for Cactus Canyon, which shocks me because when we both discussed it when it first came out, it just wasn't getting the hype I thought it would until it released.
Speaker: And it's just CGC knows how to take these games and make something magical out of them.
Speaker: And Attack from Mars for me is that.
Speaker: And there is, like I said, it is the epitome of like 1990s code.
Speaker: Like we all cling on to that 90s era because it's kind of,
Speaker: a great entry point where it's more modern, but still simplistic, right?
Speaker: It's easy to understand rules, but you're still feeling like you're not playing the 1960s EM.
Speaker: If you haven't played Attack from Mars in LE, you have to.
Speaker: It just...
Speaker: It's hilarious.
Speaker: There's call outs.
Speaker: It's absolutely funny.
Speaker: It's memorable.
Speaker: It's everything.
Speaker: And one of my favorite parts is if you've never done this.
Speaker: Time for tea.
Speaker: Time for tea.
Speaker: If you're going after the, you know when all the aliens start jumping on the play field and you've got to knock them down to start Martian multiball.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: If you leave...
Speaker: the one by the scoop for the very last and you miss him and hit it into the scoop, he will laugh at you and say, ha ha, you missed just funny little quirky things like that.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: It's, it's just a great game.
Speaker: So that's number two in my heart attack from ours.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I'm cheating.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Declaring that I'm cheating.
Speaker: So my number two,
Speaker: is all four CGC remakes.
Speaker: Oh my goodness.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I thought mine was cheating, but yeah, all four CGC remakes because they are the games that my kids want to play.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: They will fail in, in depth of code.
Speaker: They will fail.
Speaker: And the only one of those four, uh, cactus Canyon, uh,
Speaker: Monster Bash, Medieval Madness, and Attack from Mars.
Speaker: The only one that is tournament ready is Attack from Mars.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because it still has that risk.
Speaker: Like any other, like the Travis Murys out there, the Tom Graffs out there, they're going to kill this game, these games.
Speaker: But when I brought Cactus Canyon down, that was the game that my kid just played over and over again.
Speaker: And so for the sake of the new generation, we need more pinball like that in the modern era in that they're fun and they're still fun to play.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So finding that balance, you know, maybe there's the theme in my, in my list is there's something to be said for elegant simplicity.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So that, and the toppers, my gosh, they are amazing.
Speaker: Like all four of those toppers, they, the one downside with cactus Canyon is that no one wants to buy it without the topper because the topper is so cool.
Speaker: So find a way.
Speaker: I agree with you.
Speaker: Keep keep pushing these things out.
Speaker: Figure out a way to make the next, you know, the next remake, like do a whitewater.
Speaker: Your whitewater would be amazing.
Speaker: And the only problem is I'd have to find ways of collecting all of them because I don't think I can sell any of them.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: So that's why it is my number two in that my kids won't let me sell any of them.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Number one.
Speaker: I think we do want to say it together.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: On three, one, two, three.
Speaker: Godzilla.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: It's not, not even close.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It really is not even close that, uh,
Speaker: the gap between one and two, it's like Tiger Woods at his heyday when he was so far above every other golfer that it wasn't even close.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And, and that is, that is amazing to me that we have almost a hundred years of pinball.
Speaker: And I even add like the modern flipper era.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like how many games are out there and the number one game justifiably rated is a game that was released last year.
Speaker: Two years ago, actually.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So two years ago, 2021.
Speaker: So that is just, it's amazing to me that it is fun, casual.
Speaker: It is fun, deep.
Speaker: And again, Keith Elwin is the king of elegant simplicity.
Speaker: He does.
Speaker: He makes games that new people can understand and tournament people still like.
Speaker: I think not only that, he's learned how to
Speaker: Dangle the carrot so that you feel like it's close enough that it's achievable, but it's still hard enough that you want to come back for more.
Speaker: And I think it doesn't matter if you're a newbie or if you are Travis Murray or Keith Elwin.
Speaker: There is just something about Godzilla that is just amazing.
Speaker: It's the little nuances in the code.
Speaker: It's the way the game metamorphosizes as you're playing it.
Speaker: The mechs, which are simplistic but still amazing.
Speaker: It's what...
Speaker: Pinball should have, it's, it's what Adam family did for pinball in the nineties.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: It's what Godzilla has done.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It's a post Godzilla and a pre Godzilla.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Cause it is the new standard.
Speaker: And by the way, I will say elegant simplicity.
Speaker: Keith has done that.
Speaker: However, there are so many options on Godzilla that,
Speaker: that it's not like you're doing the five things or the five modes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like you can attack that game from so many areas and you still won't be done, but you don't feel lost like wizard of Oz where it's just, it's just so complex that you're like, I don't know where I'm going.
Speaker: Well, and,
Speaker: It seems like pinball is very much like line up the dominoes and then knock them over, right?
Speaker: Like you're trying to get them all lined up.
Speaker: And sometimes in pinball, you only get about half of them lined up and you got to knock them down because you're ball three and this is the best you're getting, right?
Speaker: And it's that wood choppiness, right?
Speaker: Like you think of medieval madness, you think of attack from ours.
Speaker: I'm getting the dominoes lined up to, to, to the castle.
Speaker: In some ways, even though I love Metallica, it's the same thing.
Speaker: Like same thing.
Speaker: Do a crank it up again, you know?
Speaker: So Keith Owen has found some way to make you feel still accomplished.
Speaker: Even if you don't send up all the dominoes and nine times out of 10,
Speaker: You're not going to get to the end of this.
Speaker: I've been to Planet X like three, four times.
Speaker: And you've put like 3,000 games on it.
Speaker: I don't know if I put that much.
Speaker: But it's just I still feel accomplished getting to the mini wizard mode of either Terror of Mechagodzilla or of
Speaker: Oh, Monster Zero.
Speaker: And what I love about it is it gives it to you as you're playing the game.
Speaker: It's like you've done these things that you've been already doing.
Speaker: Let's give you a mode for achieving that.
Speaker: Where a lot of the other games, like take Ninja Turtles, for example, or even Foo Fighters, you have to complete those modes.
Speaker: Foo Fighters is a great example of this.
Speaker: You start the mode, you need to complete it.
Speaker: If you're not, your city is flashing and you will not get to the mini wizard mode.
Speaker: You need to do those four things so you can get to, it's a multi-ball.
Speaker: You can either go to, I want to say it's either Austin, Texas, or it's like Washington, D.C.
Speaker: I think is the two places for me.
Speaker: And yeah, like in Guardians of the Galaxy does the same thing, right?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: it's like you have to fight to get that mini wizard mode where Godzilla is like, Oh, you've been playing long enough.
Speaker: You've earned.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: If you're paying attention, you can get them pretty easily.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And that, I think that's the direction pinball should be going, like rewarding you for playing longer.
Speaker: Like there is, if you want tournament play, then go with tournament play, like get rewarded for making all the shots.
Speaker: And I get it.
Speaker: I get it.
Speaker: Like people complain, Godzilla rewards you for flailing sometimes.
Speaker: And that's kind of the case in some instances, but sometimes it isn't, you know?
Speaker: I feel like I actively have to decide whether I'm going for points, I'm going for depth in the game.
Speaker: Because I hate to tell you this, there's people having broken a billion on that game.
Speaker: I can get a billion in Tokyo before leaving it.
Speaker: So it's just how you approach the game.
Speaker: All right, well, that does it for our list.
Speaker: One last question he had for us, what do we love most about pinball right now?
Speaker: I've been thinking about it.
Speaker: Go ahead.
Speaker: I want you to go first.
Speaker: I've been thinking about this a lot.
Speaker: I really think it's the community.
Speaker: It's something we talked about earlier.
Speaker: I mean, it's even like Colin reaching out to us saying, hey, there's this concept that someone else came up with.
Speaker: Do you want to run with it?
Speaker: It's like, yeah, let's do it.
Speaker: Like I said, nine times out of ten, the community is pretty amazing.
Speaker: Yes, there are their trolls.
Speaker: They know they're trolls.
Speaker: They're not abashed by it one bit.
Speaker: They're not ashamed of it.
Speaker: But overall, I look at other
Speaker: Let me give you an example really quick, and I'll be super quick about this.
Speaker: I played Diablo on the phone.
Speaker: I haven't played Diablo in years.
Speaker: I loved Diablo 2.
Speaker: I never was able to play 3.
Speaker: So I can't remember what the name is for it.
Speaker: It's like Diablo Immortal or something like that.
Speaker: And it dumbfounded me that a mature game that had a bunch of adults playing it was so toxic and immature and just spiteful.
Speaker: This is supposedly a tight-knit group that makes clans and runs these things.
Speaker: But it was just... It was poisonous.
Speaker: It was poisonous.
Speaker: Especially to new players.
Speaker: They destroy new people.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: And they call them idiots.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And they make fun of you for not even knowing.
Speaker: And it's funny, in pinball, it's like...
Speaker: if you've ever been to a tournament and you, you, you don't have to know very much.
Speaker: If you go to a tournament, people will say, Hey, this is what you do, or this is what you can do to improve.
Speaker: Or like you will get help out of the gate because I firmly believe it's like the first time we did salt Lake gaming con or the second time.
Speaker: Sorry, bone Karen showed up and I walked over to bone.
Speaker: Cause at that time he was like top 30 player somewhere on there.
Speaker: He might still be, I can't remember.
Speaker: I haven't looked at the list very long, but,
Speaker: I walked over to Bowen, I said, I've never seen a star strip starship troopers in my life.
Speaker: What do I do?
Speaker: And he's like, he's like, I'll boil it down to two things.
Speaker: And I can't remember, it was like, shoot this shot so many times and then you're going to shoot like one of the bugs or something.
Speaker: And it's going to be your jackpot and multi ball.
Speaker: And that's really all you're going to do.
Speaker: That's the two things.
Speaker: And it was funny because he told me those two things.
Speaker: I went and played Starship Troopers.
Speaker: I came back.
Speaker: I told him my score.
Speaker: And he's like, that was your score?
Speaker: That's a really good score for a game you've never played before.
Speaker: But it was like, it didn't bother him.
Speaker: And maybe he didn't feel threatened.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: But I feel like every tournament I've been to, everyone's been very nice to be like, what can I do to help?
Speaker: right like are you enjoying yourself like there's only been two instances i can stand out in my mind where i did a tournament um we played a i love actually pin golf i know people i think i'm crazy for it but i did a hole-in-one on twilight zone it was doing all the locks and starting multi-ball something like that i can't remember but i did it it was it was kind of hard and uh
Speaker: Jeff Rivera of the pinball podcast was partnered up with me and he's like, holy crap, that was amazing.
Speaker: You know, and there was only one dude.
Speaker: I was like, man, it's only Twilight Zone.
Speaker: You didn't do that.
Speaker: Great.
Speaker: Everyone else is like, you did great.
Speaker: You know, like regardless if they believed it or not.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so, but my point being is, is the community is amazing.
Speaker: It doesn't matter if it's tournament.
Speaker: It doesn't matter if it's podcast.
Speaker: It doesn't matter what it'd be.
Speaker: I mean, look at Dan Rostenstein and that dude.
Speaker: he was, we were signing his autograph book last expo.
Speaker: And now the dude has his own podcast.
Speaker: If you haven't checked it out, pinnovators on TPN, give it a listen.
Speaker: It is pretty amazing.
Speaker: It's pretty good stuff.
Speaker: So, yeah, I was actually texting Dan yesterday.
Speaker: So it was interesting because we were talking a little bit about just the industry and just kind of looking at it from a fan standpoint.
Speaker: And I, I, I actually passively said, yeah, well, I,
Speaker: I get it.
Speaker: I, my undergrad was mechanical engineering and he's just like, I knew there was something about you because I don't know what his major was, but he, he certainly has that background too.
Speaker: That actually transitions right into my love of pinball is that it's physical.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: That you actually have a connection to the machine that's not filtered through a screen or an algorithm.
Speaker: I mean, it's, you are, it is something that if you take the glass off, you could grab the ball.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And so I love that it's, it's something that it feels real in a world that has increasingly turned artificial.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: So everything you said about the community, a hundred percent true.
Speaker: I, it's a, I still remember when I put two and two together that Jeff Rivera was local because I had just barely bought, I think Spider-Man and I was trying to figure out a little bit more of how to use it.
Speaker: And he was driving, he was driving out to pick up a ghostbusters for the release party.
Speaker: And so it was, it was interesting and he was very welcoming and I had lots of questions and just, it was a very good experience, but I just love having something that I can physically interact with.
Speaker: And that, you know, it feels, it feels real.
Speaker: It feels retro.
Speaker: It feels in it's, it's a pre social media experience.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: Well, Scott, my camera has officially died.
Speaker: I have pulled a job.
Speaker: I can tell you.
Speaker: You're frozen there.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: It's an El Gato no signal.
Speaker: El Gato no signal.
Speaker: They could have taken a better picture to freeze on.
Speaker: Oh, well.
Speaker: That's okay.
Speaker: But I appreciate you joining me tonight and us doing this.
Speaker: And I guess the next time we talk, it's going to be – I don't know.
Speaker: We might get an episode in before –
Speaker: for a expo.
Speaker: We'll see.
Speaker: We'll see.
Speaker: We'll see if we, we'll see if we can do it.
Speaker: Cause you, you're probably going to be very busy getting ready to go.
Speaker: So we'll see what happens.
Speaker: So definitely hit up Josh.
Speaker: If you are going to expo and Hey, you know, if you see something cool message me, cause I'm want to live vicariously through you.
Speaker: So definitely let me know.
Speaker: All right, man.
Speaker: Well, if you want to get a hold of us, you can get a hold of us through loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: We're also available on all the socials at loser pinball, whether it be Facebook, Instagram, X, tick tock, YouTube.
Speaker: If you haven't subscribed, you should do it.
Speaker: And same with our podcast and whatnot as well.
Speaker: We appreciate all the people that have been reaching out.
Speaker: Quick shout out to pinball hands.
Speaker: That is awesome.
Speaker: from the game people.
Speaker: He listened to our episode with Don and loves that we talked about his stuff.
Speaker: And he enjoys pinball podcasts and been listening to ours for a really long time, he said.
Speaker: And he enjoys that we talk, we stay mostly on topic.
Speaker: We don't talk about pizza toppings, which don't listen to our expo or our TPF episode.
Speaker: I guess that was more about people stealing pizza.
Speaker: Yeah, people stole pizza.
Speaker: It was pinball relevant.
Speaker: Yeah, it was very pinball relevant.
Speaker: If you're wearing any of our swag, hats, shoes, backpack, shirt, whatever,
Speaker: Take a picture with Josh.
Speaker: Find him at Expo.
Speaker: I want to see a picture.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: And I'm going to be wearing my shoes, so we'll twin out.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Sounds good.
Speaker: See you guys soon.
Speaker: See you soon.
