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What do you know about pseudoarchaeology? - Aliens 79
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Join us for a lively quiz competition as Fredrik goes head-to-head with returning guest Mark while Michelle tests their pseudoarchaeology and alternative history knowledge. The stakes are high, with both participants eager to prove their expertise on topics like ancient aliens, Viking burial practices, and the mythical Loch Ness monster. Throughout the episode, the trio dives into the absurdities of mainstream conspiracies and historical misconceptions while maintaining a relaxed and humorous atmosphere. Expect plenty of laughs as they explore questions that challenge their understanding of history, including whether the Vikings had spaceships or if the Earth is flat. With a mix of trivia and engaging commentary, this episode promises to be entertaining and enlightening, revealing the often ridiculous nature of pseudo-historical claims.
Links to Michelle:
https://www.youtube.com/@authormichellefranklin
https://www.patreon.com/newshortstories
Links to Mark:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiJCpRC9BvG-xIlYImiNN0g
https://archaeosouptowers.wordpress.com/
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The intro music is Lily of the woods by Sandra Marteleur, and the outro is named “Folie hatt” by Trallskruv.
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Transcript
Introduction and Purpose
00:00:00
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network.
00:00:15
Speaker
Welcome to Digging up Ancient Aliens. This is the podcast where we examine alternative history and ancient alien narratives in popular media. Do these ideas hold the water to an archaeologist or are there better explanations out there?
Episode Competition and Interaction
00:00:31
Speaker
We are now on episode 79 and I am Fredrik, your guide into the world of pseudo-archaeology and this time It will be a competition. I will compete against Mark, who hosts the channel Arkusoup. And we will see who is the best expert on pseudo-archaeology dating to 2024. So what happened last year, more or less.
00:00:59
Speaker
It's hosted by Michelle Franklin from Lectures and Legends. Both of these have been the guests on this podcast previously. So this will be a, well, interesting episode and see, well, who walks out of victory. And you can participate by just pausing after the questions and see if you get the correct answer. Let me know how many, well, right answers you got on this quiz.
00:01:26
Speaker
And I want to thank all of those of you who are supporting the show. You're really helping out producing this content and I'm humbled and grateful for your support. And if you want to help out, I will tell you how to do that and get some bonus stuff at the end of the episode.
00:01:44
Speaker
Remember that you find, well, often sources, resources, and reading suggestions on the website, diggingupangitalians.com. But there you won't find much sources, but some hopefully. There you can also find the contact info if you have any questions or notice any mistakes in any of the episodes you are listening to.
00:02:07
Speaker
And if you like the podcast, but don't want to donate any money, that's all right. But I would really appreciate if you left one of those fancy five-star reviews or thumbs up or whatever they use on the, well, podcast player you're listening to.
Guest Introductions and Ancient Alien Specials
00:02:23
Speaker
Now that we have finished our preparations, let's dig into the episode.
00:02:42
Speaker
So I want to welcome two returning guests to the show. We have again, Michelle and Mark from Orcus Oop. So so and what we will do today is watch a two and a half hour ancient alien special on the British Isles. We did that already. think I think Mark and i had to be professionally resuscitated after after that. mark you got this a playing It's still one of the best episodes I think that you've ever done because you can visibly see our brains melting out through our eyes. Yeah. Yeah. I had liquid on the back of my neck. I was like, what's, what's that? And then I realized it was just, you know, raw intelligence, just leaving my body. um Yeah. I had to have a shower.
00:03:30
Speaker
No, I won't surprise you with ah that. I will actually hand things over to Michelle for this special episode. This is a year in archaeology. Frederick asked me to make a quiz based on all of the things that we've covered over the year in archaeology and history, and neither Mark nor Frederick have seen these questions.
00:03:57
Speaker
So they they have asked me to make this so they can compete to see which one of them dies first. What? What? I've only just learned it's a competition. now Now death is on the line? Well, if it's a competition. There better be some stakes. Otherwise there's no point. yeah I don't even know if there's a reward for winning. I think the the reward is ah not dying dumb.
00:04:24
Speaker
The reward is knowledge. That's about it. So, Mark, do you have your scoreboard ready? ah Yes. yeah Yeah. Mark, so if you if you will keep tally, although honestly, I don't i don't think there's even a reason to keep tally, but Frederick desperately wants to win, which I think both of you are going to win anyway.
00:04:45
Speaker
because these are the these are the topics that both of you have covered on your programs, each of you, uh, throughout 2024.
Debates on Historical Practices and Myths
00:04:54
Speaker
So once we're ready, we'll start off with the first question. i mean mean there sir I mean, just shows that they have not, you know, watched ancient aliens and other pseudo programming as much. That could be, you know, if you win, that could be a reward not to let watch ancient aliens for one week. Wow.
00:05:14
Speaker
if if your brave a break Yeah, you used to merge from the office and your partner's like, is it not happening? Are you okay? Is the internet down? um Okay, cool. Yep. So good to go. Question one. How did the Vikings actually bury their dead? I'm going to say it depends when and where you're talking about. Okay, good. Continue.
00:05:43
Speaker
In some places, we're talking about cremation. ah In other places, we're talking about disarticulated burial and storage of bones, in fact. And in other cases, we are talking about complete burials. But I suppose it is it is it's a matter of definition. I mean, for example, there may be a a local tradition near to you, Frederick, that I'm not aware of.
00:06:06
Speaker
Yeah, we have the burial ships and the mounds and the stone ships also, and don't forget those. Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah. And actually they those are beautiful, aren't they? The little ships laid out in, it's almost like an ellipsis of. Yeah. I mean, if you walk on some fields, especially on Godland, you have a whole fields of these little boats just laying around scattered in the landscape. m and Is there.
00:06:34
Speaker
uh no no fire in these burials ah well yeah obviously uh obviously in the cremations you have yeah yeah i mean well no well i mean obviously we all know that uh if you're really important then you're put on a boat push it out to sea and then set a light yes according to one saga yes yes ah but i didn't actually put it on fire in that saga they just pushed it out to sea yeah Yeah. Yeah. That's why Outlander is the superior a Viking movie. Yeah. Yeah. The the whole, I mean, we we can't say that it didn't happen, but we do. eat There's no evidence of people having their ship set on fire and set out to see there's just no evidence for it whatsoever. Okay. See, I told you you would, you would do fine with all of these because these are subjects that you've covered, even some of them recently. The question too.
00:07:31
Speaker
What is the archeological evidence for the Loch Ness Monster? Zero. Oh, Mark has a different answer. No, I'm just going to say that would be paleontology.
00:07:44
Speaker
Ooh, what is that? Plessy's not a dinosaur. No, is it are they not? I thought they were thought they were thought to be. I forgot which one it is now. Well, it's not a dinosaur, is it? Because it's and space thought to be a prehistoric creature of the same age of dinosaurs, which is a paleontology paleontological thing, isn't it? That's not exclusively dinosaur. I don't know.
00:08:08
Speaker
So why do people think that Nessie is real or why do people think that Nessie was a dinosaur as a cultural memory of a dinosaur? It is absolutely impossible, by the way, because Loch Ness, even though it's one of the deepest lakes, it was covered over in ice until when we were talking about the the history of Earth until very recently. So why do people think that Nessie is a dinosaur?
00:08:31
Speaker
That's a good question, but it's from the surgeons. I think it's the surgeons photos, but it has this long neck, like a swan. So, I mean, could be some sort of swan monster.
00:08:47
Speaker
netsy just goes off Yeah. And then along comes the UK monarch, because they have unique rights to eat it. It is a swan. I say that's mine.
00:08:59
Speaker
Yeah. Do you know who, who made up, made up most of the quote unque evidence for, for Nessie? No. Interestingly, I don't have his name. I think he's a surgeon though, but other than that, it's.
00:09:13
Speaker
Yeah, it was it was one person in particular who essentially fabricated most of the quote-unquote evidence. And even there there was a great ah great race too. This was really all, it was a publicity stunt and that was it. And so e ever since then, people have said, oh, I can see Nessie or Nessie is there. You know, people use it as a great as a great way to get people to love Ness, which is fine. I mean, it's and it's really no different than having King Arthur acting casual to be quite honest with you.
00:09:40
Speaker
But it it was a publicity stunt and people just used us as a way to now get people to to visit the area. All right, so question three. Was Rapa Nui established by aliens? Yes. Of course. No, no, no. Atlanteans. I guess Atlanteans. Oh, yes. Sorry, that's the last city of Atlantis. Yeah. yeah but why why do people What is, what is the whole project did a whole program on this, but what is the whole difficulty that people have with ah the return of the Moai and, and Rapa Nui? Well, it mostly boils down to this idea. I mean, the alien part is kind of new, but people look at the structure on Rapa Nui and.
00:10:27
Speaker
and narratives from the local population and so some interpret it as a wide set of people came there and brought culture with them and Thor Hejdall, the Norwegian raft enthusiast, yeah went there trying to find this lost civilization that he thought originated from South south America and before that in Europe.
00:10:50
Speaker
But they were got kicked out by the brown population in South America, went to Rapa Nui, where they were killed off by the local population, or by population immigrating from Polynesia. But a lot of those ideas come from there, and then people are somehow befuddled by how you can move stones. Well, there could there there was a story. There's a story, isn't there? A tradition that the stones walk into place.
00:11:17
Speaker
And that may well be literally that they were guided. You can sort of rock and there's been similar experiments done with some of the Sarson stones. I believe it's Stonehenge as well. You can sort of, yeah. And the end of there's three archeologists that actually tested walking MOI. So they made up almost full replica. We're talking 10 tons plus. And then they, uh,
00:11:40
Speaker
made the bottom a bit ah roundish. And then I took a couple of people and then you just got shot. Yeah. Yeah. And then you just wiggle it back and forth and it kind of moved. You see those memes of like the but those statues having toes yeah on the on the other end of the world. Like the heads are here and the toes are here. Yeah. Although, um, is, is was, it was our Norwegian man, was he disgusted when he got to Rapa Nui and it wasn't Rafta Nui and he was like, ah,
00:12:10
Speaker
Oh man, I thought it was rafts and then. No, because he spoke Norwegian, Mark. Oh, get it. Okay. Nevermind. Yeah. hey Hey, I understand that. That's fine. Yeah. So a maybelingual show yeah, maybe he misheard, you know, the floaty aspect and I'm going to back off from that.
00:12:33
Speaker
love
00:12:37
Speaker
Right, here's a question just for you Mark. okay Who made all the crystal skulls?
00:12:45
Speaker
I know that like they sort of turned up in the mid 20th century. um seemingly seemingly made by modern people basically out of using you know techniques that that are in fact and you know ah not appropriate. I don't know the full history of it. I do remember being very disappointed when they turned up in in Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
00:13:10
Speaker
No, we should not. We don't remember that movie, be Mark. We don't know. But you've got to. You've got to for the canon. That's the thing. you've yeah just he is like i don't rememberie in the fridge i don' I don't remember. I don't remember the aliens talking at the end. I don't remember.
00:13:29
Speaker
No, but the crystal skulls originate in at least the most famous, the Michael Hedges skull come from a crystal Guevler dealer from Germany. Yeah. Oh, okay. Nice. I forgot, but he bought it there. ah He bought it from an auction and then he tried to tell this story a while later that he found it in, was it Belize or something like that?
00:13:55
Speaker
And then his daughter has embellished on the legends ever since. And when his daughter thought that the the skulls, actually, they could tell the future and that they talked to her. And I just want to know how she, how she divided, how she thought that the skull, like, did did she put her hand in and they went,
00:14:16
Speaker
talk or did she like shine the back of the skull and looked in it? I just want to know how they actually spoke to her and told her the things. I think it's telepathically and if you want to have this power yourself, you can actually buy a set of 12 crystal skulls on Etsy nowadays. You can have a complete set with a little mat you can place it on. I'm going straight there, straight to Etsy.
00:14:41
Speaker
Um, see this, is that I have a sickness. Okay. I really do because all I've got going around in my head is, believe me guys, it's the real thing. It's just like, for God's sake, more what's wrong with you? What's wrong? but We don't, we don't even have to say anything for it. We just watch work go in circles. I have a self trolling pun maniac. Yeah. yeah ah Terrible. As long as you know, I've been told.
Exploration of Historical Hoaxes and Treasures
00:15:11
Speaker
but next question just for here frederick ah kensington runestone evidence of vikings in the u s No, it's evidence of a Norwegian with too much time on his hand. No, sorry, a Swede. Yeah, a Norwegian companion too.
00:15:30
Speaker
But that this one is not the only one. So what other what other great frauds are there in in the US? And why? Why specifically? Great frauds. Where these rune stones actually made. Obviously, there's the 2020 election.
00:15:43
Speaker
um then we've got
00:15:48
Speaker
yeah That's not that's not funny. That's not funny right now. Well, when it comes to runestones, there's two of them. I think one is in Oklahoma and who want to go there. So I mean, obviously a fraud, but I mean, a lot of these ties into Scandinavian identity of the immigrants in the early 1900s. So these rune hoaxes are in reality a more interesting history from a modern perspective.
00:16:21
Speaker
But it's also part of this idea that Americans, the white part of the population, want to feel that this is their land, it's them first. So we kind of invent ways to kind of, oh, but Europeans were here a lot earlier, so we don't steal land from the native, we just reclaiming it. As if the Vikings were there before the natives?
00:16:47
Speaker
No, on the Kensington Runestone, they're apparently killed by the natives. But I mean, it ties them deeper to the country. Then instead of a couple of hundreds of years, we're talking thousands of years of history there that they can relate to and claim heritage from. But the there was a lot of identity movement in the early 1900s, late 1800s.
00:17:13
Speaker
especially among the Scandinavian population that moved to Minnesota and these places that they still had a strong Scandinavian, Scandinavian identity. They still spoke their language. They didn't integrate properly. So they want to, you know, create their own celebration. They got the yellows that they celebrate the Columbus and not the yeah Eric, the there red the or anything like that. Is that because, well, it's America.
00:17:43
Speaker
Yeah, Leif Eriksson. But Leif Eriksson, according to the Saugas, discovered it you know much earlier than Columbus. So it was this idea that we should celebrate Columbus. And that's maybe why the Kensington Runestone was created, because it was found in and close to the World Fair that was taking place where they celebrated Columbus. And they were a bit upset that the Norwegian and Scandinavian is Swedish people didn't get a their representation there. And according to the Norwegian that seems to have been participating in the hoax, at least so according to his children, who talked with historians in the seventies, they said about that and they wanted to, you know, show off those stuff to academics. Well, I can't really decide.
00:18:36
Speaker
how I feel about it, because in that sense, I wonder if if these hoaxes were designed to be taken seriously in a sort of a later sort of state-wide national story, or if it was just someone trying to set up folk tales. I mean, you could you can you can ask similar questions of, for example, the origins of Mormonism, for example.
00:18:59
Speaker
What sort of impact was actually intended in those early stories of of discoveries in the woods and being visited by an angel? Was it actually just to impress the people around around in your immediate vicinity or actually was it a sort of a as some places in the world today do, an attempt to use interpretations of archaeological evidence to legitimize full-on statehood, as opposed to just sort of feeling comfortable where you are. Do you know what I mean? I have a bit of sympathy for... Well, in the case of Mormonism, I don't think there's any archaeological evidence that Jesus is ever affected. No, no, no. No wooden submarine has been found to date.
00:19:46
Speaker
No, no. um but but in that it i can I can imagine a bored Swede just, you know, carving out. ah And it takes a little bit of knowledge. I mean, like he he he clearly knew some...
00:19:57
Speaker
older forms of Swedish and and Norse direct derived dialects. Not really the runic alphabet and that he used. We have several versions of it, so we have to remember runes were used in Sweden as late as 1911. Yeah. And the the script he used has no earlier evidence than 1875.
00:20:24
Speaker
Oh, so not even, so I always thought it was always under under the impression that, well, the, the runes were flawed, but the, something about the grammar was pushing it back to medieval at least. or no No, I mean, I have read a lot of runes, both ri medieval and Viking age. And when you approach this early Scandinavian language, it's very difficult, especially if you're not used to it.
00:20:48
Speaker
right You can't read really go to a room stone, read it fluently, even if you know the the individual letters or look them up. But this is like someone in the 1800s imagining how it would sound in the 1300s. And I mean, it's a a mixture of modern Swedish, Danish and Norwegian languages that the creator obviously had access to. Yeah. He says biggest flaw was obviously not including Icelandic or Faroese. farhao it also as well, it, it, it sounded in that case, there's a little bit like bad, uh, bad, bad dialogue written that sort of medieval, you know, the old, yeah. you bar Yeah. My Lord. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. It's okay. Sorry. In that sense, it sounds more like a D and D prop. It's kind of like a.
00:21:44
Speaker
know yeah You know, it's funny, Mark, there actually is like a fake runestone like that. We're apparently at a LARP. This is true. There was a runestone to commemorate it. There was a LARP where they shot down um ah drones and somebody took a spear and threw it. And you can actually, yes, they decided to commemorate this very funny LARP event and you can see it. And it's like a really angry person with a spear and the evil drone with a sad face on it. It's really incredible.
00:22:12
Speaker
but okay next question I want to be petty about the Kensington Runestone because it's actually medieval. It was written according to the stone itself in the 1400s. yeah
00:22:26
Speaker
So no Viking was involved at any point. No, no impossible. when when When was the Viking period over? Yeah. Depends on who you ask. I would say 1100s. Yeah. at latest yeah but money And if you ask any home DNA testing kit, it's still going on.
00:22:52
Speaker
Turns out, I'm biking. No, you're not. So, one little point on that. um An awful lot of ah ah and also lots of people get very excited when they see a percentage of Scandinavians, something where they're in there in there the results.
00:23:08
Speaker
ah But actually, recent research has shown and bigger movements of people in the preceding ages, so Bronze Age movements of people, and so on and so forth. And also, of course, people, as you say, traveled the world continuously after. And it's fascinating how all it takes is for someone to get... I saw a meme today, actually, he was like, man, our American man, when he discovers he has 2% Scandinavian DNA, and he's basically got a beard, a horn, he's on theses on like a mountain somewhere going,
00:23:35
Speaker
I mean, and yeah, but it's it's interesting that that people think that that must mean Viking as opposed to, you know, just Scandinavian. its yeah yeah We talked about when you and Howard were on and on on our program, that doesn't mean anything. A Viking is was with somebody who very specifically went from somewhere and did a specific thing. there if If you stayed home, you're not Yeah, but it also wasn't a genetic quarantine. It's not like it had a people but you have one of those genes. You need to leave. Go away. Well, I don't want to leave Sweden. No, you have to go now. Oh, okay. Sorry. I'm rambling.
00:24:18
Speaker
yeah
00:24:22
Speaker
There's something else to, to, and for both of you. How many Templars made it to the US? Uh, a lot. And the buried treasure in very deep pits. Yeah. Uh, under, under, um, uh, church at the edge of the old Dutch city of New York. Don't forget the new Island in Canada. oh Yeah. oh yeah on yeah it's yeah but Where is that? I've never heard of this. you haven't so but Where's my treasure island? Is it Oakmont? Oak Island. Oak Island. Yeah, yeah. Have you missed Oak Island? You haven't heard me digging. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What myth is this? What myth is this? The Oak Island mystery. that even has a It a show on the history channel here. It's second only to hunting Hitler. like it's
00:25:12
Speaker
It's a big show.
00:25:16
Speaker
It's long running. I never heard this magical treasure island in Canada. You never told me this? It was according to legends discovered by some kids that decided to dig a very, very deep hole, I think 30 feet or something like that, because they figure out that it will be treasure when they found it. And then the hole starts to get sold to different treasure parties who has been searching and people have been killed in there and it keeps flooding.
00:25:46
Speaker
oh They've been digging there for about a hundred years or so. Yeah. That's a show on History Channel. All kind of mystery. You don't know. The treasure is the stupidity we found along the way. Yeah. Although in a very literal sense, actually, I guess if you sell a mine, you are selling a hole. umma Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, yeah, I guess it's a money pit because you know, they have sunk a lot of money into it. Hey, nice.
00:26:17
Speaker
and you give you an extra point for that yeah yeah no no no you take away points for fund off right on the program Michelle, are you not familiar with your own history? Apparently not. Apparently I have never been told about the gold caves. It's not a cave, it's just a pit. I'm just wondering where my money is I'm at this point. I mean, you know, 41 years going to I have turned in this world and no one has told me that give you an extra there's point for that. No, a magic money pit that no, no. You take I can go and away points for fun. dive into and retrieve gold from. But nobody has found gold.
00:26:54
Speaker
Because they're not digging hard enough. It's not true, is it really? This is what happens when we take the children out of the mines. Yeah, this is this is true. but But money has been found in the form of franchise rights and TV now. So there is, you know, there's drama in them, their pits. Got to film it. ah That's great. Next question. Did the Vikings and their gods have spaceships?
00:27:23
Speaker
Of course. And spy drones. Oh yeah. Yeah. And heat seeking missiles. Oh, where did the heat seeking missiles come from? Oh, it is returning spare. Of course it's a viking straight to the screen.
00:27:36
Speaker
oh I see it returns because he's so hot. It just comes back. I am the all far back, the hottest man alive. The spear returns. Except that one time when it hit him in the face. He's like, oh, my eye. I do appreciate Stargate's riff on this though. And how like they they just thought that you know Thor was like the little the little green men yeah and Asgard was the ship. And they're just go, yeah. This totally makes sense. sense sure yeah i I do appreciate that they kind of leaned into that nonsense. and just went i I seem to recall, I didn't watch a lot of that series because I don't think it was easily available. and But I remember seeing an episode where they were in what looked like a sort of an Alpine village almost. It was meant to be a sort of a projection of an unbroken sort of Norse influence on a planet somewhere.
00:28:31
Speaker
And then I remember them going, we're going to go and meet Thor now. I was like, Oh, this is going to be interesting. And it's just that little gray thing with like big eyes. And I was like, I'm very disappointed. but but Where's the blonde hair? Where's the muscles? I didn't have to have blonde hair, but you know, just have a, have a, have a face, you know what I mean? It was interesting.
00:28:54
Speaker
It sounds interesting because usually they apply the area on the aliens on that. So it's, I'm glad to hear that they didn't go that route because no, no, it's great. And they actually made them like they, they need help because they, uh, you've been around a long time that the grays are having difficulty reproducing. They've copied themselves so much that they can't reproduce themselves anymore. And they actually have other intergalactic.
00:29:20
Speaker
uh enemies called the replicators that end up coming as forming missions but it sounds like the replicators could solve their issue i mean well replicators replicate themselves, not other things. no But Stargate SU-1 was really good with that. They leaned into a lot of the conspiracy theories and made fun of them, but in a very creative way. So they had a whole conspiracy theory about the obviously the ancient Egyptians who took people, the aliens took people and they put them on another planet and then they built like a whole ancient Egyptian thing.
00:29:53
Speaker
And that the the aliens were really called the Goa'ul, so like Ra and Apophis and all these other gods were really parasitic symbiotes that lived inside people. And that continuously ah went into their supporters throughout time. yeah is but their Their whole take on these work was very interesting. But yes, the Or was one of the greys, and i really I really enjoyed that. Next question. What is Europe's?
00:30:22
Speaker
So I can just say, both of those, interestingly though, add an interesting query, don't they? They they they imply that that if you take a group of people from a certain time of place and you isolate them, so in the case of the Alpine village or in the case of the the Egyptians, that their culture will stagnate, that somehow it will just self-replicate, self-replicate no pun intended. yes so are those rep of their language where they can all just magically speak english yeah if you well yeah well i get but but
00:30:53
Speaker
ah Aside from that, they it it state yeah its in terms of art, in terms of um ah scientific development, it seems as though they the idea is people, and maybe this is true. It probably is true, actually, that you need to have inputs from outside your bubble to be challenged and to grow and to develop, perhaps. It's an interesting sort of implication, I suppose, but it also actually implies that people are to too unimaginative to change what they already have. um Anyway, I just, yeah, this is intriguing.
00:31:23
Speaker
they do They do run into civilizations that are, most of them are either dying out or they need help. right um And so yeah, they are, their culture is stagnating or on on the edge of of dying. And so they do come to help those the civilizations oftentimes, whether they're sometimes they're funky, they're strange balloon people, but and they have to help them anyway. um but think so The way you worded that they have to help them anyway, despite them being disgusting.
00:31:53
Speaker
fungi people like to help them anyway They'll just replicate by themselves anyway. yeah yeah just Just get a hose and make a moist environment. Yeah, get a wet log. Exactly. exactly ah they're They're great wars with the most people. So next question. yeah like Did Europe have any ancient pyramids?
Debunking Ancient Myths
00:32:34
Speaker
Yes, yes, Bosnia. So in Bosnia, there's actually a whole national park ah ah for the Pyramid of the Sun set up. um And is it Osmanovic? I think is the name of it. Yeah, it's ancient. It's like from 19,000 years ago or something like that. The only problem is there's no evidence of it. And whenever people go there, and like geologists, they go, this is geology. And, um, I like the way both you both simultaneously take it. He's got this. Um, whenever they go there, it's just geology. And also though, interestingly enough though, to this day, you do get people who've been there to the archaeological park and say that they've taken part in and seen archaeological excavation. And I just, I wonder,
00:33:28
Speaker
ah Presumably what they're seeing is people doing digging, not actually finding archaeology, but yeah. But yeah, um but yes it's interesting. They're called flat irons, which for a long time I called them flatirons because I'd never heard that said out loud. And then one day I heard on, I think it was a National Geographic program talking about the flat irons in parts of the US and I went, oh, flat irons, not flatirons. Yeah. Yeah, but the Semiros Manages have excavated a lot ah before he had on his webpage picture from his excavations. where We found an ancient road leading up and what he had done is dug down so he hit bedrock yeah and then he just put the angles of the shaft a bit so it goes like a
00:34:17
Speaker
road but he has no idea what he's doing and part of his evidence is photos with a crystal camera that can be only be interpreted by its inventor that photos the aurea of the hill.
00:34:31
Speaker
wow Wow. And I thought geophysics was, was complicated. That's astonishing. Um, but in the heat. So his background, I believe was in oil. prospect He went and worked in Texas for a long time. hey He has, uh, had a, I think it's a BA in, uh, uh, economic and some sort. Then he got a PhD in social science about the crystal skull and how ancient Maya invented them. I have no idea how it.
00:35:01
Speaker
So, so what institution did he pay for that one? No, it was from a real Boston university, but I think he was kind of forced through because if you read that PhD, I have no idea how he made no through the final rounds. It's just, I mean, you can go and read it because I have a link to it on my website on the Boston pyramid episode, if you want real headache.
00:35:25
Speaker
Well, and this wasn't written from a sort of a folk tales perspective. This was written as though it was an angle. No. So it's like an archaeology paper, but written by someone who has no idea about archaeology and for a social science. Oh man, I could have gotten my PhD done.
00:35:44
Speaker
oh yeah social politics degree. And then he was part or he became a professor, but it was just for a paper mill or diploma mill. So he often referred himself as a professor.
00:36:01
Speaker
And my favorite thing about him is that when people started to write him and complain about what he was doing and all that, he just add all these real archeologists that wrote him and complaining as advisors on his website. Listen, that's a genius move. That's a genius move. yeah a Hey, you're advising me. What are we wasting our time for? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You get, you get exposure as a win-win.
00:36:29
Speaker
ah Genius move. Fantastic. But to answer your question more seriously, there are one p ancient pyramid in Europe that still stands and it's in Rome and it's an actual burial. Then we have pyramidal structure in Hellenicon in Greece, but I don't think those were pyramids. I think they were just leaning inwards and then would go up as a tower and they seem to be quite recent. I even visited those earlier this spring. Beautiful place but it looks more like ah construction that we use in farming and there's other similar examples in I think it's Croatia with similar structure and then they had a straight tower on top but the sides were kind of leaning, had a slope on them.
00:37:21
Speaker
And crucially, the the the Rome example is is inspired by, of course, expeditions into North Africa. So in that sense, it's not ah it's not a Roman pyramid. It's inspired by something else similar to, for example, near to me, Durham Cathedral. Its architecture is inspired by people coming back from the Middle East, having seen mosques and going, oh, we could make that and doing something similar. So no it was aliens. They did it.
00:37:49
Speaker
yeah They also put the space man on the cathedral yeah yeah and the xenomorph. The xenomorph in Glasgow, yeah. I love the idea of of of an alien going round with like ah either a salesman's coat or a suitcase, briefcase rather, and just ah just turning up and going, take me to a leader. See, you're taken to the leader and just goes, right. and Have you considered pyramids?
00:38:16
Speaker
i may just go And it slaps down the staircase and the pyramid scheme pops up. yeah Yes, exactly. It's a pyramid scheme, precisely, yeah. That's literally what it is. Yeah, yeah. Opened up the suitcase in the briefcase. And before before um before they know it, they signed up. So the Emperor is just like, ah sorry, so what ah but who are you? what What's going on? The Emperor's just looking at at the the thing he finds going, what's his time share? yeah Yeah. He's like, right. So we're signed up to package B, right? Okay. Yeah. And, and they they have no time to back out a bit before you know, at the Senate's having to, you know, fund a pyramid and the aliens like, yes, commission.
00:39:00
Speaker
At the beginning of Saints Row Forest, it's one of the best games ever. um there's There's a whole sequence where Keith David is like the advisor to the, but you are the president and Keith David is the advisor to you. He goes, okay, so which one, like the aliens are attacking. There is literally an alien ship coming and attacking people. The aliens are coming to suck up Jane Austen. This is a real thing that happens. And although if you've never played this game, this game is absolute genius.
00:39:24
Speaker
and So that Keith David holds up two contracts and he goes, which one do you want to do first? Do you want to cure cancer or do you want to cure hunger? And that's like your first choice as as president. And you go, I don't know, man, fuck. And then the aliens come and they stop you through from curing cancer. Wow. Okay. and thats That's really why we have cancer in the world because, you know, 20 years ago we stopped the aliens. were The aliens stopped us from making that.
00:39:53
Speaker
Yeah, if I'm speaking of other infuriate infuriating things, um, is the shot of turan real or fake? Oh, and what sense do you mean real? Well, Mel Gibson just decided to to say that it was real. Oh, come on. Sales to, um, the Americas and that he don't believe in evolution or carbon dating or whatever he said. So Yeah, yeah. It's real in the sense that it's an actual artifact that was made by an artisan in the Middle Ages. It was, I believe, commissioned by the church itself locally. There are letters discussing this. It's known at the time. There are also letters discussing how it's a fake and how people are really upset that it's a fake. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And people are starting to get a bit too attached to it. And I believe it was under the previous Pope that the last statement was issued on the Turin shroud. And what they said was, undoubtedly it is central to many people's faith, or rather it plays a great role in people's faith. Yes. But they don't go so far as to say it's not real.
00:41:06
Speaker
So the only reason that people think that this is quote unquote real is, so just like Frederick said with our previous question, ah somebody faked evidence and they claimed that there was blood on the shroud. There was no there is no blood on the shroud. It was a paper that got pushed through by somebody who saw the shroud, I think it was in 1998, and they had vision.
00:41:28
Speaker
They had a vision that it was real and that there was blood on it. And apparently that was good enough for the people who pushed the paper through. And of course that paper has since been retracted and it's not real. We know it isn't. And people have to understand that in the Middle Ages, people didn't think that this was real.
00:41:46
Speaker
in In the Middle Ages, it was there were lots of pilgrimages to see lots of different relics and artifacts. We know that these relics were not real. It was a representation. It it was it was a Sunday out.
00:41:59
Speaker
people could go and see the finger in the cabinet and then they could they could come home and it was a nice nice excuse to to have a good picnic to have a nice day out. Yeah and I mean it was a tourist trap in a sense you go there you bought a medal to show that you was there and then you went back. Yeah that's pretty much it it is and no matter what And the problem is, of course, conspiracy theorists will keep going back to this one paper in the 90s and going, oh, but dont you see, he said he said it was real and that they pushed the paper through. So it must be real. And now, of course, there is no, he's silencing him. You have the Froude research group, I think they call that consist of a real scientists, all of them.
00:42:41
Speaker
religious surprise, surprise, but they are still publishing paper trying to prove and they actually get paper published and, you know, trying to get new dating techniques. And the only object they have tested them on is the Torian shroud. and ah it's It's such a shame because in that sense, ah ah i I know fine well that there are religious scientists in my friend group who are deeply skeptical people. In that sense, you don't have to be making up things just because you have ah have a faith in something else. But it's also a real shame that that this comes actually back to to the episode that we recorded on magic, doesn't it? This idea that somehow in the past there wasn't the complex cultural
00:43:26
Speaker
ah capacity for people to enjoy fiction in a deeply meaningful, complex way. you know Yeah, in the past people knew that magic was it was entertainment. Yeah, magic is entertainment. yeah Mystery plays as a representation and artifacts, icons even of faith, as something to inspire you, as opposed to something that's literally In this instance, the shroud of that wraps the body. so it's some yeah it's it's an it's ah It's an interesting example, but also, I don't know if this this is on your list, Michelle, but this is something that that I was mentioning to to Frederick the other day. ah this is This is why I suspect that the Gunung Padang retracted paper is going to just echo on.
00:44:14
Speaker
forever for a couple of decades at least because I actually wasn't going to mention that yeah but because in that sense we've had so i i sent I sent one link over to you Frederick but that now there's been two more since then ah since that one on the 27th of December there were three or four ah in the autumn last year and obviously the paper was retracted back in March and I think what I'm finding quite disappointing is the is the lack of literacy on the part of journalists to understand how important it is that it says this is retracted. It may still be readable. I will just say this, Mark, that I don't think that i think that's by design, because they will automat to get click they will automatically print an article based on a retracted paper, and then all the comments on the article will be, this is not true, this is not retracted, but they do it purposely to get the rage bait going. yeah
00:45:09
Speaker
And that's one explanation, but then we have to remember that most papers have gotten rid of their, well, the science journalists, meaning that they have people that actually can read a scientific paper because it's not that like picking up a book. You have to train a bit to do it. But the definition of the word retracted is universal.
00:45:33
Speaker
you don't Yeah, that's a bit bad from the publisher sides in this because they should just remove it off the internet. Of course, there can be PDFs floating yeah in obscure pale places, but they should just put a retractor and then pull down the article and the abstract basically. And just, yeah, this was not correct. No, no. Next question to Infuriate.
00:46:00
Speaker
So we're the four golden hats from the European bronze age, just priestly antennas. No, it's to communicate with the space overlord Michelle. Oh yes. Sorry. You can't see for people who are listening, but Mark's confusion is just really wonderful about the German golden cone hats.
00:46:21
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in that sense, it was more just a case of the space overlords. I wonder which which ones these are. Which particular space overlords are we talking about at this point? It's a fascinating thing, isn't it, as well, with with hats. ah But that that's a whole other story. But the yeah are these actually, are they just just conical? ah I'm not quite sure which ones you're you're referring to.
00:46:49
Speaker
So these are Bronze Age, from the Bronze Age, and the found in Germany. And there are speculations that they are part of a calendar, if I remember correctly. I actually saw one of them here in December when I was in Berlin and realized that the ah Pergamon machine was closed for the next 30 years.
00:47:16
Speaker
all
00:47:21
Speaker
that's that but i That was beautiful delivery, thank you. except
00:47:29
Speaker
I was like, Oh no, it's Saturday. When's it going to be open? Well, 20, 50, 20, 65. Yeah. And I realized that they closed it. I think it was in November. So I was like two weeks too late. Oh man. That sucks. But you got to see the head. You got to see the head. Yeah. At least. he talk to the alien No, I wasn't allowed to put it on. It was just a bunch of gores tackling me and But you did manage to lick it. That's what's important. Not even that. Don't mess with the Germans. No, no, no. mr So, uh, our mommy's vampires and draugrs aliens. Of course. where the Sorry. Where the hell you are we getting this idea from? it this this comes This comes straight from Frederick's podcast. This is amazing.
00:48:27
Speaker
Because like, wow, I mean, I've heard lots of it other interesting conversations around, particularly Droga, but that they are aliens. So it's just the idea that that the alien consciousness is seeding itself into the recently deceased. If i I'm a bit hazy on that, because ah it's quite long ago, but there's something, ancient aliens quickly ran out of ideas and tried to scramble to find content. So I think it's that they have this weird disease and, you know, since they are immortal, it must be some sort of alien connection between them. Is it possible that? Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. but yeah question for you mark now yeah What archeological evidence is there for for giants, specifically the Lovelock giant, the San Diego giant and the famous Cardiff giant?
00:49:28
Speaker
There's a real bodice. I've seen the news clipping. but well the cardiff one is i don't know about that i I have been the one good thing about having now actually finally taken an indefinite hiatus from having an RKC Facebook presence.
00:49:46
Speaker
um is that I no longer have to sift through the feed of Photoshop skulls and, I mean, the other day there was a toothbrush. This was AI actually, an AI toothbrush. It was meant to be the size of a, basically, I don't know, a bus because giants, and they can't even get the scale of these things consistent. Because like sometimes the giants appear to be just big people.
00:50:16
Speaker
In other cases, they seem to be the size of the Colossus of Rhodes or something. And it bothers me. But then what bothers me even more, yes, this is a long winded answer because I have no actual answer for you. What bothered me even more is that we're getting this now in the new Indiana Jones computer game, which is a fantastic game. I'm very much enjoying it. It's so good.
00:50:45
Speaker
But they're doing it. They're doing the Nephilim and they're doing something else at the end. I don't want to spoil it for people who haven't finished the game. um And that's a shame because it's it's one of the more, it's not as it's not as um overtly, colonially crap as ancient aliens and so on and so forth, but it's one of the most persistent pseudo-archaeological new age myths. And it's strangely popular with people who are very much of faith, of a belief, and they need this to be real for some reason. It confuses and upsets me, basically, because clearly you have people who are making, especially in the early... Is it any better than the Ark of the Covenant?
00:51:37
Speaker
It is better. I think the Arch of the Covenant is is is better, actually, in terms of ah because at the very least, there's a that there's there's this a focused single object which has a connection to to to to the storage of laws and Moses and all this. kind yeah that There's a reason for that for this focus of an object. and that In that sense, it could be construed as something similar to the Cheerin Shroud. It's an icon of faith. It's a representation of ah of a story.
00:52:08
Speaker
But with the with the giants, ah it's the fact that it's so inconsistent, but it's more it's more you in the early 2000s, especially in the in the early 2010s, people were really ramping up there their Photoshop skills. And you had these really upsetting you know little people next to giant scholars, like they don't want you to know the truth.
00:52:28
Speaker
Yeah, we all saw that crap. I mean, they've been going on with this for ages though. I mean, look at all the tabloids. You know, you see every tabloid, the alien baby is born to giant man. you but the client Everybody knows it's fake. It's just funny. But I have a special place in my heart for those old school Photoshop pictures. is you something so good I mean, i i so I do, but the problem is is that the comments below are indistinguishable from comments you get still
Archaeological Evidence and Myths
00:52:57
Speaker
today. People just go really pushy. So for example, this this is completely off topic, but but someone commented the other day on it on a TikTok piece um about
00:53:08
Speaker
It was um the Joe Rogan wristwatches clip. So someone shows him pictures of Samarian carvings and wreists so of wristwatches. um and And someone commented saying, ah, but isn't it possible?
00:53:24
Speaker
that, the idea don't get me wrong, she said, I don't believe that they're wristwatches, but isn't it possible that our leaders are trying to make us think that gems and ah quartz and diamonds don't have special time travel powers?
00:53:40
Speaker
so so that we don't Yeah, I know. So that we don't investigate it, so that we we we remain powerless. And I didn't respond, but I really wanted to say no. You know what? You know what? Sharon, you take your little rose quartz and you go up to a world leader and you magically bibbidi-bobbidi-boob them away. yeah I'll believe you.
00:54:04
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. yeah do it by But I think it's much more likely that people getting lost in those comment sections is precisely what lets people get away with not tackling climate change, not doing effective economic work, not actually ah you know working for the benefit of of humanity. What do you mean? My giants and my my research. And then you have to remember that the sites often the radicalizes you in a way. So I yeah completely destroyed my social media accounts for these podcasts taking up ancient aliens because I pressed, you know, pseudoscience. I get more and more and it gets darker and darker for every day that passes by. But I mean, for a normal person that clicks it, Oh, this looks interesting. And then they
00:54:54
Speaker
see it again and again, and kind of reinforces this idea that it must be true. And I mean, as I said, a special part for place in the heart for the old school Photoshop AI. I'm not really, I hate those, but they even got lazier recently. So, um, have you encountered Stargate, a Voyager or Derek Olson as he's also known?
00:55:19
Speaker
he published ah ah He published a lot of weird claims online, but recently he published a picture of a skeleton and said 15 real evidence for giants. And I reverse Google that image. So it's from a mirror article talking about the excavation in the Astrakhan region in Russia that mentions nothing about them being very tall.
00:55:48
Speaker
So it's just a fake. This skeleton is far away, Dougal. No, no, that kind of cropped it. So it kind of looks big, but ah wow. Wow. That is lazy. no it's very We're not going to talk about the holy grail, but I just want to mention it for for a second because all of these, and obviously all of these giants are fake and, um, but all of them for for specific reasons.
00:56:12
Speaker
But especially like the Cardiff Giant, which is just like a carnival hoax. And it's it's made out of stone. And when you look at it, you just go, oh, come on. Like, who would believe that this is real? This is ridiculous. It looks like a Pez candy. It's really terrible. But people I've heard, I've even heard people say things like, oh, but people who don't believe in conspiracy theories say, oh, the Holy Grail was real. And I go, no, we we know who invented it yeah it it. It was never real. It was really, you know, it was part of the christian cycle and it's meant as ah as ah as a symbol of purity and faith, and it's unattainable. That is what the Grail means, that it's something that's completely unattainable. But people still believe that it's real, but just because it's so prevalent in media. And as well, when it comes to Enochian literature, which is what the giant these giants of the Nephilim are from, people people look at the Ark, and they go, oh, but the Ark of the Covenant, that might have been real. you We don't have any evidence for it, but it might have been.
00:57:10
Speaker
So, why not the Nephilim? If we can find evidence for it, then no, it has to be. And they they think that they think that, like the Book of Enos and the Book of Giants were taken out of the canon because all that the government doesn't want you to know. They don't want you to know that there are really giants. You go, no, those were written way later, but that's Greco-Roman time. People don't understand the timeline of when things that were written down.
00:57:36
Speaker
So in that sense, they see books like this and they just they just think, well, why isn't it a part of Canada? Why don't we know about this? So in that sense, ah do do you think then that but actually there isn't, you know is there a safe level in that sense? So if I was trying to make a distinction between the the Ark and Giants, or and and even, for example, the Cheyenne Shroud and Giants,
00:58:01
Speaker
but But is it is it possibly a a case of, for example, maybe actually the Charing Shroud should be considered to be akin to ah the Ark, if not Giants, because it's clearly an artifact of of fiction. it's It's religious fiction, but it's still fiction. Should we get into the hole? it is Is all religious fiction just fiction? it's a pretty deep discussion i'm i've i've i i'm not i don't I don't want, i don't this comment section is going to be hard enough anyway.
00:58:33
Speaker
But, you know, i i think it's I think it's possible for people to have articles of faith. Yeah, and thats note to mean yeah in like a personal way. um But it's interesting. Yeah, I think I see where i see why you get why you you hop from the giants then to the Ark, because in that sense, why are you letting one through, as it were, the gap and not the other? Yeah. Yeah. So for example, if the Nephilim were mentioned in conjunction with Noah and the Ark, and if we don't have, I mean, there's obviously a Dr. Vin Finkel, who is such a legend, has written the Ark before Noah, in which they talk about what the Ark might have looked like and how based on the instructions, there's probably a giant coracle and that kind of thing.
00:59:16
Speaker
But again, um we have no evidence of the ah no no evidence of Noah's Ark, I should say. So is it really at that point, is it really any different than the Ark of the Covenant?
00:59:27
Speaker
yeah ah let's Let's make you angrier, Mark. but so the I'm always angrier. That's my secret. You're just going to hold that eventually. Are the Obelisks an Illuminati conspiracy?
00:59:45
Speaker
wi ah Which specific obelisks? All of them. Right. Okay. No. and No, they because they're part of the ancient alien Egyptian power grid.
00:59:59
Speaker
So we all know that the pyramids generate electricity and then the obelisks are, you know, like highlands that makes it flow forward. Yeah. ah Well, there you go. That's it. Yeah. I mean, one interesting, one of the interesting thing I know about the obelisk that ended up in London, ah the ah Cleopatra's needle.
01:00:24
Speaker
Is that um they used as a ballast for the ship, um mummies, cat mummies, and and other ah remains of the dead, um which when they got to London, they then used as fertilizer.
01:00:41
Speaker
on fields in and around the countryside. so um ah Why do people work so hard to make these things make sense? Because the Illuminati, you'd think that they'd have better things to do, wouldn't you? Also, I mean, that organization lasted a handful of years and that was it. They were done. A couple of thousand years after the Lost Obelisks.
01:01:09
Speaker
yeah that's that's That's what they want you to think. oh yeah sorry exactly That's what they want you to think, you know, yeah the greatest trick the devil will ever pulled. And just like that, he's gone. Yeah. Oh, but I hadn't heard that one obelisk. This is, yeah, this is, this is an education. Yeah. Thank you.
01:01:34
Speaker
yeah oh here Here's another one you probably haven't heard, Mark. Is Newgrange aligned with the Orion Star alignment? No, no it's not. Yes.
01:01:46
Speaker
According to ancient alien theory. It's like we're all trying to out dry each other. It's like there's this moment where I go, what? Oh no, yeah.
01:02:00
Speaker
I actually got someone commenting that it was proven that it was aligned with the Orion constellation. And it's well known that the all monuments in this area aligns with different stars and star signs. And then I asked him what paper was this published in? And then he stopped responding. i I'm still trying to find the paper. I mean, paywalls are a horrible things. So Jay store of my friends, Jay store.
01:02:27
Speaker
at eduuddemia dot edu you can can find all papers there for free and all you have to do is make an account. There is no cost whatsoever. i know you are park You can do it as well three through your public library. They can do it for you. yeah absolutely That's cool. I know I have a legacy login as an alumnus for my uni, but I've never used it because frankly I forgot.
01:02:54
Speaker
and then
01:02:57
Speaker
no i'm Now I'm just going, Oh yeah. Well this time I've been going papers. Um, need access. Okay. Thank you. Public service. Next question. Just for you, Mark. Yeah. Why do archeologists love brick so much?
01:03:15
Speaker
because they're amazing. Bricks are wonderful things. um Baked bricks, cooked bricks, ceramic bricks that exist, broadly speaking, further north than 40 degrees on our planet because it's too damp to have sunbaked bricks that don't collapse.
01:03:33
Speaker
are not only like Lego, they're not only sort of little things that you can build almost anything out of, but they're also wonderful little records of of material usage, of ah ah building techniques, but also just of things like footprints. You know, you get cats and dogs and people, you get beautiful and There's an antifix tile from a Roman bathhouse and prostatin where I'm from um that exists because actually tiles are and bricks and and other ceramic building material is actually quite hard. um It's one of the best pieces of evidence that we have. And I feel like you've just giving me a little you've given me a little shop window here for for one of my not so jokey, genuine loves.
01:04:19
Speaker
ah but but I've given you hope, which I'm now going to crash. Oh, okay. Okay. Well, I'll just say I've got a small collection of bricks in the back garden. I can send you a photo if you want. But I also enjoy good bricks, but in Sweden, we don't really have brick building until the 1200s. So it was our first ah building made out of brick was built just outside of Birken, the Viking settlement yeah by the Swedish royalty at the time.
01:04:50
Speaker
And I mean, it's Sweden isn't really the place for bricks. We have other cheaper materials. We haven't used it as much, but it was supposed to be a very fabulous building. And we even have found bricks with the marks of who made them. And he was very proud. So he signed them in both ah sides in rooms. So we know that one who made these bricks was named Boove. Nice. Nice. You see? Bricks. Great.
01:05:21
Speaker
Here's a question to crush your soul, Mark. Why won't archaeologists just submit that the earth is flat? I lift you up and I put you down. Well, to be fair, why would we?
01:05:38
Speaker
Like, ah I mean that. Oh, as in you won't admit it? Okay. No, but then not not only. Well, actually, no. Okay. Let's, let's flip it on its head. Why wouldn't we? Okay. So in that sense, if the earth was flat and we lived in a perfect ah Euclidean geometric projection,
01:05:58
Speaker
um But actually it would be wonderful for Strato, it would be fantastic for doing an excavation because everything would be flat and you you wouldn't have confusing shapes and ah gravity wouldn't mess up a site after the fact, you wouldn't have to figure out the processes going on once something is actually in the ground.
01:06:19
Speaker
Uh, life would be much easier as an archeologist if the world was flat, but it's not. And we know it's not for various reasons, which I, I understand. Uh, but I'm also not a, uh, an astrophysicist who can, who points this out stuff out a lot, uh, elsewhere. But that's point. Yeah. aristotle the idea The idea that the world is flat, people say, Oh, really people But no, they knew the world was round. But how do they knew that, Michelle, because of the aliens? but No, no, no, they knew it because of sticks in the ground and observing shadows. it's it's And actually, there's ah one thing, sorry, I know that was a joke, but but um one thing that I've been playing um Horizon Zero Dawn in the past couple of months.
01:07:09
Speaker
And there's a wonderful moment in the in that game where um the protagonist is climbing up a hill to get somewhere, and someone in her ear is saying, ah the world isn't flat, Aloy, this may surprise you. And she just goes, of course it's not flat. And she talks about how ah just ah observ ah observing, think it was shadows from the top of the ruin and in the city. You could tell that there's a change. yeah And I thought, yeah, people just just thinking about it, just genuinely just mulling it over. No, this whole idea came from Washington Irving and it was really just a new a new Catholic idea. It had nothing to do with no any kind of ancient anything. Ancient people as far back certainly as Greeks knew that were and even even the work the very first map of the world that we have from Babylon is round.
01:08:04
Speaker
End of story. Yeah. And that's something that amazed me with the ancient alien people that they might be anti-evolution. They might be anti-history. They might be racist, but they are not flat earthers.
01:08:21
Speaker
but yeah like je You can call me a lot of things, but yeah. Even though they look that dumb, guys. The alien told us they're around this earth and they're alien, they're flying above. That's how ancient people know the globe is round. How would they otherwise know? Is it possible to know if you don't have spaceships? I do wonder what happens when these guys share a ah conference. you know Oh, Frederick, you gotta go, man. You gotta go.
01:08:53
Speaker
and just just get the flat earthers to talk to the to the guys, ah the other guys who are talking about how are they eating? Oh, there will be a farm documentary idea, take flat earthers to argue with ancient alien people. Well, I imagine you can probably track this stuff on on ah on a sort of a, almost like a logic gate where Yeah, that they're together, they're together, together. Oh, no. Ah, no. No, no, the Earth is flat. No, the Earth isn't flat. And then they're together, they're together. And then, oh, oh, aliens. Oh, oh no, brown people. other than like you know And then you'll just see this sort of, this this progression of of, it could be a beautiful diagram, you know. um And then then, ironically, they all come back to one point after all of that, when it just says against the main, you know, the mainstream is against us.
01:09:39
Speaker
Yeah. So it would all come back. like It would be like a bell curve and at the other, at the other end of it, it'd be like, but the mainstream is against us. They all say in one voice. And then where they will start fighting again about who is mainstream of them. Oh yeah. Yeah. You're mainstream man. Yeah. You just have some random guy in the middle breaking up the fight going, bro, trust me. yeah yeah yeah Absolutely.
01:10:04
Speaker
next we yeah we only have a couple questions left the next question ah Why is nobody mentioning the fact that an alien ship came to see Charlemagne?
Alien Theories and Historical Misinterpretations
01:10:14
Speaker
I can't i can't keep saying this, but but that's that's neat that's a new one on me. but Did I cover this or have you stopped improvising, Michelle?
01:10:28
Speaker
I think that's what you mentioned very briefly. yeah Charlemagne. Well, but all world leaders, they kind of want to assign alien connection with because you can't be a powerful leader without alien interference. So you're ruling from the benevolence of the alien space Lord. The same with Alexander the Great. They apparently had the either UFO fighting for him and maybe even against him.
01:10:58
Speaker
In this one, specifically in the Annals of Lorschen, Germany, it says that there were two shields burning with red color and moving above the church when Cherwin got there. yeah so there's i mean there are other There are other medieval texts that recall other celestial phenomena around around this same time, yeah but it's the same thing with the wood plaque from Germany. there are There are so many things with people who look at these old medieval depictions and they go, ah, ha, you see aliens.
01:11:28
Speaker
My favorite is the all the one from England where the aliens that climbs down from rope ladders. that one I don't know about that one's fun and don't remember the full story, but it's kind of like a sailor and he comes down and then he drowns in the air because he's not from. ah Oh, oh that poor guy.
01:11:50
Speaker
ah but so I think one of them is also about the anchor that gets stuck in a church because they kind of, they need to anchor the spaceship. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Makes sense. I suppose. And second to last question. What happened to the aliens who fell from Magonia? From what? Magonia. Magonia. Is this too much? Have we entered a realm that's too much for Frederick?
01:12:18
Speaker
I think, I think Frederick's brain, a certain part of his brain just automatically wipes every time he gets... It's a trauma response. Yeah. Yeah. Deep into the hole. And he just goes, Oh God, I don't remember. This one is a ninth century Latin manuscript. The Archbishop Agobard of Lyon complained about the French peasantry insisted belief that a certain region called Ligonia, when ships came in the clouds and apparently there were people who showed up and got off. And yeah. ah Yeah, that's part of the legends I just mentioned, but i I'm bad with names. It's horrible. It's likely that the Archbishop just made up this story because nobody else mentioned it whatsoever. And it was, it was, people think of this one because it was the brother's grandma who latched onto the story and then repeat it. Okay. No, as though there's no evidence this ever happened. And people think it might have been some kind of part of either part of a Germanic or or Frankish mythology, but there's no evidence ever happened. Same thing with the ah the airship of cosmic noise. There's this is very famous. Actually, Howard and Richard were talking about this, as Howard said, I don't understand
01:13:33
Speaker
where people get this whole idea of like Celtic and Viking peoples and airships. So there is that there is a story about the airship of comic noise that happened in the early but medieval times. And that there was an airship that came in again. People got off and said, oh, how do you do? How do you do? Let's have lunch. And then, yeah, that's it. But nothing nothing else happened. And this is talked about this event is actually talked about in a couple of sagas.
01:13:57
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, but flying boats are quite common idea. I mean, if you want to have people I've always wanted to fly and using a boat seems like a logical idea. I know that Canada has some lumber his stories regarding flying birds, canoes, and the yeah. Lumber to make a deal with the devil and then it can go to Montreal and celebrate. very It's very hard to get the wings on the canoes this time of year.
01:14:25
Speaker
a yeah and but the the him um That's the magic word that makes the boats fly. yeah exactly know This is this a slightly dark joke, but I saw the other day, with obviously with recent talk of US expansion, the idea of Canada becoming a state, which is laughable. um they they that People were workshopping names for the new country and they were saying it should be the USA.
01:14:53
Speaker
a
01:14:57
Speaker
Very good. No, not very good. No, okay. It's not funny. It's not funny. You're not looking forward being the 51st days, Michelle. Yeah, sure. I mean, you know, ah we'd love to take over the US and get some free healthcare. That's great.
01:15:14
Speaker
Let's do that for them. yeah Especially with the horrible fires going on now, we would love, you know, Canada's already down there fighting the fires. So we would love to give them insurance. yeah yeah Canadians and gay firefighters, apparently. Are they one and the same? I'd love to see pictures of those. Fantastic. Great. Love it. Last question. Did the aliens build Rome so that all roads lead to the same spaceship. Come on. Come on. That's a saying, man. That's a saying. someone I don't know where it comes from. I can't remember where it comes from. But it's a saying and it's not that's not a guiding principle of built up. Rome wasn't built.
01:15:58
Speaker
Before the road as after the road network rather you need to know that implies that there were roads there and then the romans founded rome that's not how it work that's not how it happened that's not and then the idea that that that that that that therefore it's ah it's a drawing process to suck in humanity onto the mother ship it's just.
01:16:21
Speaker
Logic, you know, basic like, like, like, like, like just, just principles of, of cause and effect. That's all we need in 2025. And I'm not sure we're going to get it. And all the roads go to, uh, not the colors. I would say it goes to Coliseum because it's a great place to learn your spaceship.
01:16:47
Speaker
Oh, it's okay. The circle. Okay. I see that. So for it's in reference to the Malarium, Oreum, the, uh, the stone. Yeah. I mean, it's logical that the Romans would build roles that lead to Rome since it was the capital. Yeah. That's where the aliens are. Obviously. Yeah. there a I'm, uh, like I love you guys, but, but, but can we like next time do a quiz that doesn't kill us? like this was a Frederick's request. So on that, how'd you do, Mark? What's the score?
01:17:21
Speaker
ah Well, um I haven't asked if this isn't taught. I have a score of seven, which ah Frederick will be happy to know is not as high as his score, which is seven point five. oh So very well done, Frederick. Well done. And the point five was just for a little bit of extra, extra knowledge here and there. So very well done. Now that you've won, what do you get?
01:17:47
Speaker
Yeah, I guess I don't have to leave ah the show to Mark who otherwise would be, you know, a new host. oh god Just crying. like i did like the heart ugly' be crying in a microphone
01:18:07
Speaker
But I didn't know. I didn't mean to win the quiz. but Well, well, I don't know. i mean do do we Do we think that ah but the the ideas are going to calm down as far as? them No. No. OK, no.
01:18:27
Speaker
no okay As long as there is, it's something I've known in general. I think I've seen really in the last 20 years, especially now with horrific AI and all those kinds of things. People will believe what they want to believe and the interest in the truth and in history, people are just not not interested.
Reflections and Podcast Support
01:18:45
Speaker
um And we do this as well on on my show where we talk about things that so but actually are historical events that people will ah will say happened, which we don't think that did not happen. um And it really is down to education and the education systems in everybody's individual country. And unfortunately, there are certain countries that have unfortunate education systems.
01:19:11
Speaker
that are designed to keep people guessing, really. And they just leave people to find out on their own. And sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. But I am actually working on Ancient Apocalypse ah at the moment, season two. So I have new headaches going on here. But ah Michelle, Mark, great having you back.
01:19:36
Speaker
happy that I didn't have to hand over the show to you, Mark. I think you're equally as happy. Remember, read the fine print in the contract next time. yeah It's a predatory Frederick contract. Yeah. But the take care and I hope to see you again sometime. Bye-bye. We'll see if we come back.
01:20:01
Speaker
And again, a huge thank you to Michelle and Mark. I'm happy to walk out of this a victor, even if the, well, victory was slim. And make sure to check out Mark's and Michelle's content on other channels. I will link their stuff in the show notes to this um podcast. So you can just go there and get even more history, archeology, and a lot of different things over at their channels.
01:20:31
Speaker
and if you want to support the show head over to patreon.com slash digging up ancient aliens or if you want another option then the patreon you can sign up at the members portal that you find over at digging up ancient aliens dot com slash support signing up gives you well add free episodes you get early episodes and you get extended episode So this ah episode was a bit longer but you who are listening in the public feed well you missed a bit of discussions in this episode but if you become a well supporter you get bonus content and extended episodes. Again if you want to contact me it can be done through most social media sites and if you have comments, corrections, suggestions or hankering to write that email in all caps you find my contact info on the website. The show is created with the support of the archaeology podcast network
01:21:25
Speaker
You'll find a lot of other great shows like the CRM Pondcast and, well, and My Trowel on their website. Producer of the show is Ashley Aray and I, Fred Richter-Sahan, wrote most of the episodes, not this one, edited and mastered the episode you are listening to. Sandra Martelor created intro music and her outro is by the band called Tral Skriv, who sings their song fully out. Links to both of these artists can be found in the show notes.
01:21:54
Speaker
Until next time, keep shoveling that science!