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Ep 49: AIQ with Keith Elwin
74 Plays5 years ago
The GOAT has returned! Alot of talk about Avengers but we also discuss things like: Papa, Upper flippers, and Gorillaz. Enjoy
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsors
00:00:06
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
This is episode 49.
00:00:10
Speaker
With me, my co-captain as always.
00:00:12
Speaker
Scott Larson.
00:00:14
Speaker
And Scott, let's talk about our friends really quick and then let's introduce our guest.
00:00:19
Speaker
Okay, so friends of the show, first and foremost, if you're looking for that new pinball machine or anything to accessorize your game room, please contact Zach and Nicole at Flippin' Out Pinball.
00:00:30
Speaker
Always useful to help out.
00:00:32
Speaker
Secondly, also, if you want to check out Rate A Pinball, he'll be able to give you all the tips on the machines and teach you how you're supposed to be playing as opposed to you flailing around like I do.
00:00:43
Speaker
Also, this week in pinball, please check out Jeff Patterson's site.
Promotions and Pinball Accessories
00:00:47
Speaker
He goes through all of the information and summarizes it into five quick talking points.
00:00:53
Speaker
Also, check out my friend's blog, The Pinball Loft.
00:00:56
Speaker
It just has his review of the Avengers.
00:00:59
Speaker
He has a lot of fun tidbits of information.
00:01:02
Speaker
Also, pin shades.
00:01:04
Speaker
If you want to be able to play on location without those annoying glaring lights, go ahead and pick out the pin shades.
00:01:11
Speaker
There's also a Black Friday code.
00:01:15
Speaker
I'm sure it's still active.
00:01:16
Speaker
It's a loser kid.
00:01:19
Speaker
Is it pinball?
00:01:19
Speaker
BF.
00:01:21
Speaker
It's BF.
00:01:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:22
Speaker
Check out the Black Friday sale, Loser Kid BF.
00:01:28
Speaker
Also, Brian Allen, if you're looking for the alternative trans lights for classic Williams Valley games, check it out.
00:01:35
Speaker
I have the Medieval Madness one in my game, and it's a lot of fun just to swap it out.
00:01:41
Speaker
Just mix it up a little bit.
00:01:43
Speaker
Also, check out Lit Frames if you want that trans light to be illuminated and you don't have the game.
00:01:47
Speaker
Go ahead and check out Bradl at Frames.
00:01:50
Speaker
He'll be able to hook you up.
00:01:52
Speaker
Also, another website to check out, Pinball Supernova.
00:01:55
Speaker
If you just want to check out alternative stuff that is out there, please check out his site, too.
00:02:01
Speaker
And Josh.
00:02:03
Speaker
OK.
00:02:04
Speaker
Who do we have today?
00:02:06
Speaker
Sorry, when you said alternative stuff, he's talking about pinball.
00:02:09
Speaker
He's not talking about like... Oh, okay.
00:02:11
Speaker
All right.
00:02:12
Speaker
Get your fetish off kind of thing.
00:02:14
Speaker
Wow.
00:02:14
Speaker
I didn't even realize you were going to go there.
00:02:16
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:18
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:02:19
Speaker
Let's... Okay.
00:02:20
Speaker
Alternative music?
00:02:21
Speaker
Like 90s alternative music?
00:02:23
Speaker
Is that what you're thinking of?
00:02:24
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:02:25
Speaker
You're thinking of whips and change.
00:02:27
Speaker
All right.
00:02:30
Speaker
Well, our guest...
Interview with Keith Elwin
00:02:32
Speaker
It is always an honor to have him on.
00:02:34
Speaker
You know, this man has been on.
00:02:35
Speaker
This is his third time.
00:02:36
Speaker
We couldn't think of anyone better than to have Mr. Goatzilla himself, Keith Elwin.
00:02:42
Speaker
How are you doing, Keith?
00:02:44
Speaker
Hello.
00:02:44
Speaker
Nice to be back.
00:02:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:47
Speaker
Well, we're excited to have you back on.
00:02:49
Speaker
We heard that, you know, you're adding more Christmas songs or something into Iron Maiden.
00:02:55
Speaker
Like...
00:02:56
Speaker
What's going on there?
00:02:56
Speaker
Well, there is a twist that's just a Christmas album.
00:02:59
Speaker
So I think there's going to be an Iron Maiden Christmas album coming out and you can just throw those in.
00:03:04
Speaker
Right.
00:03:04
Speaker
Eddie sings Christmas carols.
00:03:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:08
Speaker
That would be awesome.
00:03:11
Speaker
But in all seriousness, we know that you threw up Eddie up on your Facebook and whatnot, and everyone's been hounding you about more songs in the game.
00:03:19
Speaker
Are you putting some more songs in that game?
Pinball Game Updates and Features
00:03:22
Speaker
uh unless somebody wants to pay for them uh no the game's coming to the end of its life cycle so that doesn't make too much sense but uh we do have a pretty big update which should be out which will definitely be out in 2020 you're not going to go like guitar hero rock band style where you could you know pay 99 cents for more songs and whatnot inside your game huh
00:03:44
Speaker
Oh, people want to pay me, sure, but I can't help them there.
00:03:49
Speaker
Now, in this new update, you get to play as the Beast, right?
00:03:53
Speaker
And you get to attack Eddie.
00:03:55
Speaker
You attack Eddie, yeah.
00:03:57
Speaker
You reverse Soul Shards.
00:04:00
Speaker
Wow, God, I haven't played the game in a long time, so it's really... I'm trying to remember.
00:04:06
Speaker
All the games are a blur now.
00:04:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:08
Speaker
Well, when you have all the games of the year in your optional, it's pretty hard to keep them all straight.
00:04:15
Speaker
Well, they're working you like a dog down there, too.
00:04:17
Speaker
It's like one game a year.
00:04:19
Speaker
And man, like we didn't expect another game from you this year.
00:04:22
Speaker
All of a sudden, bam, here's Avengers.
00:04:23
Speaker
Boom.
00:04:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:27
Speaker
It's tough.
00:04:27
Speaker
It's tough.
00:04:29
Speaker
It's tough being one of the go-to designers, right?
00:04:35
Speaker
I mean, I love being busy.
00:04:36
Speaker
I love working.
00:04:38
Speaker
So I'm not complaining.
00:04:39
Speaker
OK, actually, I do love having you on because I actually started taking notes on the Avengers.
00:04:47
Speaker
I've been playing it nonstop since I've got it.
00:04:49
Speaker
Actually, my other games are staring at me, just kind of wondering when I'm going to turn them on.
00:04:54
Speaker
But I've just been playing that nonstop.
00:04:56
Speaker
And I do have some some follow up questions about the different modes.
00:04:59
Speaker
And so we want to get to those, too.
00:05:02
Speaker
Oh, man.
00:05:03
Speaker
Didn't Raymond answer any questions?
00:05:05
Speaker
Well, he answered some, but, you know.
00:05:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:13
Speaker
It was interesting when he came on board, because I had already written a rule set.
00:05:16
Speaker
And so when he first started, he just made them verbatim as I made them.
00:05:20
Speaker
But then kind of towards the end of the project, I was like, no, I thought that sucked, so I changed it.
00:05:25
Speaker
It was actually pretty fun having someone to go back and forth debating rules with.
00:05:32
Speaker
And yeah, it's pretty fun working on the rules with him.
00:05:37
Speaker
Well, it has to be pretty amazing actually at Stern because it's not like you're the only high level pinball player.
00:05:43
Speaker
There are other people that you can say, hey, what do you think about this?
00:05:45
Speaker
And they're like, yeah, maybe, maybe not do this.
00:05:49
Speaker
Yeah, that was definitely easier pre-COVID.
00:05:52
Speaker
Now, if they don't have the game at home, you get no feedback.
00:05:55
Speaker
So it was real, real nice when Raymond came on, got his play field and I got his feedback on stuff.
00:06:02
Speaker
So, so do you and Raymond fight over, he gets to have their initials on the, uh, like unattainable final mode in the games.
00:06:08
Speaker
Cause I noticed on Ninja turtles, KME is the Cowabunga initials.
00:06:13
Speaker
So do you have like a game off and see who, who gets there first and then you get to put your initials in?
00:06:20
Speaker
No, I think usually, uh, Ricky is, he just, uh, drags and drops whatever's from the previous game.
00:06:25
Speaker
And I think Ray added a bunch of his Northwest buddies, but, uh,
00:06:28
Speaker
Yeah, we're trying to mix it up a little bit.
00:06:31
Speaker
We gave Zombie Yeti the default grand champion because he's such a special guy.
00:06:34
Speaker
Yes.
00:06:37
Speaker
And yeah, I think Ray added a bunch of his friends.
00:06:41
Speaker
I didn't have much input in this game for that.
00:06:44
Speaker
I just let them put whatever they want.
00:06:46
Speaker
Oh, gotcha.
00:06:47
Speaker
Yeah, I just saw KME as my cowabunga champ.
00:06:50
Speaker
I'm like, is it just default now?
00:06:53
Speaker
Everyone just assumes Keith's going to be the only one that gets a cowabunga.
00:06:56
Speaker
So just put his initials there first.
00:06:58
Speaker
Yeah, Dwight seems to be doing that for me.
00:07:00
Speaker
So that's a little shout out, I guess.
00:07:02
Speaker
But thanks, Dwight.
00:07:03
Speaker
Hey, well, Dwight gave us a flipper code so you can actually see us on Turtles.
00:07:08
Speaker
So that was a lot of fun.
00:07:10
Speaker
Ooh, neat.
00:07:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:12
Speaker
Hey.
00:07:13
Speaker
Okay, so to start off, we said the Iron Maiden code is coming out.
00:07:18
Speaker
You said it's a major update.
00:07:20
Speaker
It's been out for, you know, it's been out for what, three years now?
00:07:23
Speaker
Two and a half?
00:07:26
Speaker
2018?
00:07:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:29
Speaker
Yeah, so we're coming up on three years.
00:07:33
Speaker
What was the big impetus to do a major code update for that?
00:07:39
Speaker
I mean, it's not a major, major update, but there are a lot of little tweaks and changes.
00:07:45
Speaker
Basically, when the DJ Mixer thing came out, they said, hey, you have to update Iron Maiden.
00:07:53
Speaker
And
00:07:54
Speaker
When Rick was working on Iron Maiden, Jurassic Park dropped in our lap and we had just kind of cut it off where we're at to get to Jurassic.
00:08:02
Speaker
And then when we're done Jurassic, then Avengers drops in our lap.
00:08:07
Speaker
And so it looked like nothing was ever going to get done on our big list of stuff to do.
00:08:11
Speaker
And then when Raymond got hired,
00:08:14
Speaker
They wanted to get his feet wet, working on some stuff.
00:08:16
Speaker
So we actually handed that to him for a few weeks so he can learn our system, our code, what we do.
00:08:24
Speaker
So he implemented a good chunk of the changes we had made.
00:08:29
Speaker
But now we have just a few more to do and then hopefully test this up and get it out.
00:08:36
Speaker
Nice.
00:08:37
Speaker
So when you say end of life, though, does that mean you're going to be wrapping up production on it here soon?
00:08:42
Speaker
They're not going to be making any more Iron Maidens?
00:08:44
Speaker
Or is it just kind of like the code's kind of almost as complete as we can get it, and so it's just going to be kind of the last update for the foreseeable future kind of thing?
00:08:52
Speaker
Yeah, I would say barring any glaring bugs, this will be the last update.
00:08:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:59
Speaker
It doesn't make sense for us to spend a bunch of time on a game that's three years old.
00:09:02
Speaker
So a lot of this stuff was stuff that's been on the list for a while that we've wanted to get in there since before 1.0, but now's our chance.
00:09:14
Speaker
It's been pretty amazing what you guys have done there at Stern over the last three and four years.
00:09:19
Speaker
Really, it seemed like the code was lagging on a lot of these games, but it really seems like a huge push for you guys to be able to get the code updated, get it out fast.
00:09:30
Speaker
And most of the games seem to be...
00:09:33
Speaker
at least fairly complete when they come out.
00:09:36
Speaker
I mean, even Avengers came out in a 0.91 or 92.
00:09:40
Speaker
And so it feels like in the old day, the old days seem to be a distant past where you would release a game and it would be on like 0.41 code or something like that.
00:09:50
Speaker
So it flipped and it was an expensive box of lights.
00:09:53
Speaker
But now it seems like you're getting a really good feel of the game.
Differences in Avengers Pinball Versions
00:09:58
Speaker
I'm really impressed with what you guys have been able to do at Stern.
00:10:01
Speaker
Well, thanks.
00:10:01
Speaker
Yeah, we've definitely gotten better.
00:10:03
Speaker
And my design team, myself, Rick Nagel, I think Rick's a great programmer.
00:10:10
Speaker
He's very fast.
00:10:11
Speaker
And the fact that I'm doing all the rules and scoring changes, I do know that in my head.
00:10:16
Speaker
Rick just has to go in, figure out how to implement it and do that rather than getting bogged down on rules himself.
00:10:23
Speaker
So I think that's a big help to push forward.
00:10:29
Speaker
Sorry, I muted my mic there for a second because the laundry was going.
00:10:32
Speaker
Hey, I've done like 10 loads of laundry today, too.
00:10:37
Speaker
Well, it is laundry day, which is the next game that's going to be released by Keith Elwin, right?
00:10:44
Speaker
Yes.
00:10:46
Speaker
Is that game number four or game number five?
00:10:51
Speaker
Yeah, I'm thinking maybe game six.
00:10:53
Speaker
Okay.
00:10:54
Speaker
We'll just keep pushing it off.
00:10:58
Speaker
Okay, so I want to talk about Avengers.
00:11:00
Speaker
So one thing we were mentioning before is there is a big difference between the Pro and the Premium slash LE.
00:11:09
Speaker
And the obvious visual cue is the Captain Marvel ramp.
00:11:14
Speaker
And so I want to talk about the differences between the Pro and the Premium LE and how the Captain Marvel ramp changes the gameplay.
00:11:23
Speaker
And if you have any tips about maintaining that ramp.
00:11:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:27
Speaker
Ramp maintenance.
00:11:28
Speaker
All right.
00:11:30
Speaker
We're getting to the nitty gritty now.
00:11:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:34
Speaker
So it's funny when I was designing Avengers, I had this two ramps way in the back, really steep.
00:11:42
Speaker
I remember George came over and said, oh, those ramps are never going to work.
00:11:44
Speaker
Those are way too steep.
00:11:46
Speaker
And then Ray Tanzer.
00:11:48
Speaker
who works at Stern, who designed Stargate, looked at it and says, oh, it's just like the Stargate ramp.
00:11:54
Speaker
As long as they're metal, they'll work fine.
00:11:56
Speaker
And so we put those in there.
00:11:59
Speaker
We shot them.
00:11:59
Speaker
Oh, yeah, they work fine.
00:12:01
Speaker
And so I was like, man, that kind of inspired me.
00:12:05
Speaker
I just want to make the steepest ramp possible, but have it fun.
00:12:10
Speaker
So that's the Marvel ramp that kind of came about.
00:12:15
Speaker
experimented with a couple of different ideas of what it would actually do.
00:12:19
Speaker
Um, one interpretation was a kind of a sideways helix that went back behind the, uh, the ramp entrance to the right.
00:12:27
Speaker
But my engineer just had laughed at me and said, no, we can do this.
00:12:30
Speaker
So, uh, we did that.
00:12:33
Speaker
Um,
00:12:34
Speaker
And then when the bill came in for that ramp, we were amazed how much it costs.
00:12:39
Speaker
And it was like, wow, there's no way this can go on a pro.
00:12:43
Speaker
So I had very little space to work with there to put something else in.
00:12:47
Speaker
So I was like, well, yeah, I'll just put a stand-up target here.
00:12:51
Speaker
And so I drilled a hole in the play field, put a target.
00:12:54
Speaker
First time I shot it, went straight down the middle.
00:12:56
Speaker
I was like, oh, this isn't going to work.
00:12:58
Speaker
So I kind of racked my brain a little bit.
00:13:00
Speaker
And it's like, how can I slow the ball down and just come like a little U-turn?
00:13:04
Speaker
So I put a spinner there and a spring gate.
00:13:09
Speaker
The only purpose of that spring gate is to slow the ball down because the ball's never going to come back through the other way.
00:13:15
Speaker
So I didn't blow out the side ball guide there.
00:13:19
Speaker
And this is all 11th hour.
00:13:22
Speaker
Didn't really get the chance to shoot it until we had...
00:13:26
Speaker
basically two days to say, hey, is this going to work or not?
00:13:29
Speaker
So we got it all together, made the modification, shot it, and it was like, oh, this actually shoots pretty good.
00:13:34
Speaker
So I was relieved, and we didn't have to make any changes.
00:13:37
Speaker
So yeah, that's a big difference between the Pro and LE.
00:13:44
Speaker
As far as maintenance, if you keep the ramp clean, it should work fine.
00:13:48
Speaker
It is very steep, so if you kind of rattle the entrance at all, it's going to be tough going.
00:13:56
Speaker
but if you make a nice smooth entrance shot, it should be good.
00:14:02
Speaker
I use, back when I had a game at my house, I use turtle wax to keep it nice and clean and flowing fast.
00:14:09
Speaker
And yeah, if you're having any kind of issues, make sure the wire and the ramp entrance are nice and flush.
00:14:17
Speaker
Sometimes the wire farm kind of starts moving forward, then you
00:14:22
Speaker
getting out of smooth transition and then it gets a little clunky at the top.
00:14:25
Speaker
So that's something to look out for.
00:14:27
Speaker
There's a nut on the back of that wire form.
00:14:30
Speaker
Just make sure that's tight and tight, waxed clean.
00:14:33
Speaker
It should be fine.
00:14:35
Speaker
So the one thing I want to point out with Avengers and in really it's with all of your games and I just don't know how you do this game after game after game, but it seems like you have the expert in mind along with the beginner because it rewards.
Balancing Gameplay for All Players
00:14:50
Speaker
I mean, take a power gem, for example, you know.
00:14:54
Speaker
If you shoot the Hulk spinner, the easiest shot is worth small points, but it seems like if you go for the big hard shots, you get three times the point value.
00:15:04
Speaker
Is this something you've always tried to incorporate in your games?
00:15:08
Speaker
Is this something you're actively like, I don't want to leave the beginners out versus the experts?
00:15:13
Speaker
Is this just something you're trying to obtain across all games?
00:15:17
Speaker
So I know there are two different types of pinball players.
00:15:21
Speaker
Those that play for score and those who play for story.
00:15:25
Speaker
So I approached this game with, okay, I'm going to make it super easy to advance the story.
00:15:33
Speaker
You can get through the game.
00:15:34
Speaker
You can get into your quests.
00:15:36
Speaker
They're not going to be, you know, obviously the quests aren't easy to win, but they're easy to get to.
00:15:40
Speaker
Yes.
00:15:42
Speaker
You know, Thor is easy.
00:15:44
Speaker
You know, I put all this early stuff to advance the game.
00:15:48
Speaker
So, you know, the casual player can see a bunch of different stuff.
00:15:51
Speaker
But yeah, if you're actually scoring points, you might approach it completely differently.
00:15:56
Speaker
Like if you watch Carl's streams, he actively avoids getting multiballs so he can set up some huge, you know, stacked combo.
00:16:03
Speaker
And that's how I approached the game.
00:16:05
Speaker
And I hope it worked.
00:16:09
Speaker
Oh, it does.
00:16:10
Speaker
And like I said, each game, there's just little nuances that I love at each game.
00:16:14
Speaker
Like the spinner in Jurassic Park is fantastic.
00:16:17
Speaker
Not only the sound and the spin, but the shooting each ramp, which lights all your values at the spinner, and then getting super spinner and just hitting that guy is fantastic.
00:16:27
Speaker
Like just these little things.
00:16:30
Speaker
And like you said, like...
00:16:32
Speaker
You know, if you're just looking for the story and whatnot, you can kind of advance.
00:16:35
Speaker
I know it's Avengers a little easier to advance than maybe Jurassic Park, but it's just awesome.
00:16:41
Speaker
My son is addicted to this Jurassic Park game.
00:16:43
Speaker
Like I texted you, his favorite game of all time was Congo and we've had Jurassic Park here.
00:16:49
Speaker
And now he's like, dad, this easily beats Congo.
00:16:52
Speaker
And I haven't been able to get him off of Congo for, well, since we owned it three years ago.
00:16:56
Speaker
So you're doing something special.
00:16:58
Speaker
You're doing something right.
00:16:59
Speaker
I love Congo.
00:17:01
Speaker
Any chance you can change the pop-up bumper sounds to saying hippos?
00:17:06
Speaker
Hippos!
00:17:06
Speaker
Hippos!
00:17:08
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:11
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:11
Speaker
Getting back to the power gem, there's actually two things I want to say about that.
00:17:15
Speaker
One...
00:17:18
Speaker
So when you qualify the gamma ray shot, I don't think anything makes my heart pound faster than trying to actually get that shot.
00:17:26
Speaker
I can hit it all the time in the game.
00:17:28
Speaker
But as soon as I hear that gamma ray shot for the spinner just cranking up, I cannot hit that to save my life.
00:17:36
Speaker
It is actually the most stress-inducing shot that I have.
00:17:40
Speaker
Go ahead.
00:17:42
Speaker
No, no, go ahead.
00:17:43
Speaker
It's crazy.
00:17:44
Speaker
Every time it's like, I can hit this before.
00:17:46
Speaker
How can I not hit it now?
00:17:48
Speaker
So originally, I wrote up the rule as Hulk Rage.
00:17:52
Speaker
And there was no sound.
00:17:55
Speaker
There was just some text on the screen.
00:17:57
Speaker
It's just your basic super spinner.
00:18:01
Speaker
Each shot scores points and then boosts the value.
00:18:04
Speaker
That's how Raymond implemented it.
00:18:06
Speaker
He did a build.
00:18:07
Speaker
I shot it.
00:18:07
Speaker
And I was like, wow, this is super boring.
00:18:11
Speaker
So I went back to the drawing board.
00:18:14
Speaker
And I was looking through, you know, what assets we had for Dr. Banner, which were basically his eyes.
00:18:23
Speaker
What can I do with this?
00:18:24
Speaker
I was like, Hmm, I think I'm going to channel a little bit from the 80s TV show and have an actual gamma ray incident.
00:18:33
Speaker
And so I went to the archives, what can you do with this very small picture of his eyes?
00:18:37
Speaker
And, well, yeah, we can just put, you know, put these gamma ray things looking down as like,
00:18:42
Speaker
And, uh, they did a quick mock-up and I was like, yeah, very cool.
00:18:45
Speaker
Now I need a sound.
00:18:46
Speaker
So yeah, kick it over to Jerry Thompson and he's sent me a couple of different things.
00:18:50
Speaker
And I was like, it doesn't really grab me.
00:18:53
Speaker
And then I remembered that Jerry gave us the sound for Jurassic park that we ended up never using because it was like 15 seconds long.
00:19:02
Speaker
And I was like, Hey Jerry, do you remember this?
00:19:03
Speaker
He's like, no.
00:19:04
Speaker
And that's, so I asked Rick, do you remember that sound that we both liked, but couldn't find a place for Jurassic?
00:19:09
Speaker
And then he, uh,
00:19:10
Speaker
A couple hours later, he found it, sent it over.
00:19:13
Speaker
I was like, yes, yes, this sound.
00:19:15
Speaker
So I sent that to Jared, and he's like, oh, I don't remember doing this.
00:19:20
Speaker
Yeah, we tried it in the game.
00:19:21
Speaker
He's like, yep, we have our sound effect.
00:19:23
Speaker
Yeah, it's a cardiac stress test.
00:19:25
Speaker
I mean, it's just if you ever wonder if you are having a heart attack, just go ahead and play that and try to trap up and shoot that shot.
00:19:31
Speaker
Oh, the thing is now because the reality gem now goes up to 5x.
00:19:35
Speaker
So if you have a 5x on Hulk and you start Gamma Rite, you just have so much pressure to hit that spinner because you know you're probably going to get at least 30 to 50 million on a good shot.
00:19:51
Speaker
I love that you went with like the gamma ray because you only had Bruce Banner's eyes.
00:19:54
Speaker
It was like, can we do this or like romantic evening, like stare into Hulk's eyes as long as you can kind of thing, you know?
00:20:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:01
Speaker
Like I said, originally it was just Hulk standing.
00:20:04
Speaker
There were some texts.
00:20:05
Speaker
I was like, wow, this is, this is super lame.
00:20:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:09
Speaker
But it works, though.
00:20:11
Speaker
That Gamma shot, like Scott said, it's absolutely fantastic.
00:20:14
Speaker
And if you hit it once, you feel like King Kong.
00:20:16
Speaker
And then you hit it twice, and you're like, I own this game.
00:20:18
Speaker
And then you watch Keith on stream on the first day they're streaming it, and you hit it like three times in a row.
00:20:24
Speaker
I saw that last time I've done that, too.
00:20:25
Speaker
It was like, ugh.
00:20:27
Speaker
Most of the times you hit it a second time, it's horizontal, and it goes right through.
00:20:31
Speaker
And you're like, ugh!
00:20:33
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:20:34
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:35
Speaker
I do want to talk about the power gem though, is that, um, because when you do it, you have the three illuminated shots on the right and you have the, uh,
00:20:46
Speaker
What are you guys calling that avocado ramp, the banana ramp, the potbelly ramp?
00:20:52
Speaker
Yeah, the potbelly ramp.
00:20:53
Speaker
Okay, so you have that and you also have the Captain Marvel shot and then you have the Panther shot.
00:20:57
Speaker
But they're all blinking at different rates.
00:20:59
Speaker
Is that because the Captain Marvel shot is worth more because you're shooting that?
00:21:04
Speaker
Because I've always wondered that because I've never been able to figure out why the flashing lights are flashing at different rates.
00:21:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:12
Speaker
We have critical blows and glancing blows.
00:21:14
Speaker
The critical shot is worth three times as much as the other two.
00:21:20
Speaker
And the spinner builds the value.
00:21:22
Speaker
A one-time shot through the spinner will build the value until it stops spinning.
00:21:25
Speaker
And then you have to shoot one of the other shots to relight the spinner to build value.
00:21:31
Speaker
Originally, that mode sucked because I had it... So...
00:21:37
Speaker
Critical shot would do a certain amount of damage, and the glancing blows would do not as much damage, so that mode would take forever to beat.
00:21:44
Speaker
And after playing it for a while, I got with Raymond, it's like, yeah, I misjudged how fun this is going to be.
00:21:49
Speaker
Let's make it real short and sweet.
00:21:52
Speaker
Three, four rounds of shots, I want it to be done, but have a big point boost if you shoot the middle shot.
00:21:58
Speaker
So yeah, I think it worked out.
00:22:00
Speaker
It is one of my favorite modes.
00:22:02
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:22:03
Speaker
I was going to say it's one of my favorite too.
00:22:04
Speaker
Like I, I gravitate towards that mode.
00:22:07
Speaker
It's just a really fun mode.
00:22:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:10
Speaker
The ones that are, are hard.
00:22:13
Speaker
I, there are a few that are actually pretty hard.
00:22:14
Speaker
So, uh, the, uh, the mind gem.
00:22:17
Speaker
And so when you're actually, so I, I do have this question when it says, you know, like the Panthers under mind control.
00:22:25
Speaker
So you're shooting the disc to break that.
00:22:28
Speaker
and then you shoot the Panther shot.
00:22:30
Speaker
Did I understand that correctly?
00:22:31
Speaker
No, you're backwards.
00:22:33
Speaker
So there's three phases.
00:22:35
Speaker
For each round, one of the Avengers is being controlled by Supergiant, and that's the one that blinks faster, and the callout will say, you know, Panther.
00:22:44
Speaker
There's four shots.
00:22:46
Speaker
You can shoot any one of those shots that light the disc to break the mind control.
00:22:50
Speaker
But if you don't shoot the Avenger that calls out,
00:22:56
Speaker
you have to shoot the Sanctum in order to finishing blow.
00:23:02
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:23:04
Speaker
So for all three rounds, if you shoot the affected Avenger before shooting the disc, you get to skip the final blow to the Sanctum, which can be a bear, as you know.
00:23:14
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:23:15
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's hard.
00:23:16
Speaker
Yeah, so whoever says it's infected with a faster blink rate, you definitely want to shoot them before spinning the disc.
00:23:23
Speaker
But if not, you can still beat the Moe.
00:23:25
Speaker
You just have to shoot the final blow of the Sanctum.
00:23:28
Speaker
Gotcha.
00:23:31
Speaker
So the real question is, when do we get to play as Thanos?
00:23:34
Speaker
I mean, seriously, all these people are craving... Scott wants a Bible game where you can play as Satan instead of God.
00:23:41
Speaker
Hey, I just think it'd be fun, right?
00:23:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:45
Speaker
It was almost like it was designed to play as Thanos.
00:23:47
Speaker
Yeah, kind of.
00:23:48
Speaker
Not a coincidence.
00:23:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:50
Speaker
No, I don't know.
00:23:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:53
Speaker
Just one of our listeners, Tim Lee, I'm going to give you a shout out.
00:23:55
Speaker
He I guess he was harassing Dwight about being Shredder on Turtles.
00:23:59
Speaker
And he's like, why can't we ever be the bad guys in these games?
00:24:01
Speaker
It's driving me nuts.
00:24:02
Speaker
Like he wants to be the bad guy.
Innovative Game Modes Discussion
00:24:05
Speaker
And so he wanted me to ask you if there's any any hope maybe of maybe Thanos being the guy you can play as on on Avengers.
00:24:13
Speaker
Nope.
00:24:14
Speaker
Sorry.
00:24:15
Speaker
Sadly, no.
00:24:16
Speaker
That's the homebrew option.
00:24:17
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:24:19
Speaker
Hey, I think it'd be a lot more interesting.
00:24:22
Speaker
That's all I can say.
00:24:23
Speaker
So.
00:24:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:25
Speaker
Tired of the good guys always winning.
00:24:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:28
Speaker
Reenact a Thanos punch right into, was it Captain America's face or Thor's face?
00:24:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:35
Speaker
No, no, no.
00:24:36
Speaker
Sorry.
00:24:36
Speaker
It's Iron Man.
00:24:37
Speaker
Iron Man.
00:24:37
Speaker
Golly.
00:24:38
Speaker
I think Thanos is an admirable villain.
00:24:41
Speaker
Yes.
00:24:43
Speaker
Very well balanced.
00:24:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:45
Speaker
Okay.
00:24:45
Speaker
So I do want to get through the other modes though.
00:24:47
Speaker
So you got space.
00:24:48
Speaker
Okay.
00:24:49
Speaker
So tell me about space.
00:24:52
Speaker
Space gem.
00:24:54
Speaker
It could be as easy as right orbit, left orbit.
00:24:57
Speaker
Okay.
00:24:58
Speaker
But there are other shots lit.
00:25:00
Speaker
You can combo the black widow ramp into the right orbit.
00:25:04
Speaker
Everything's worth a double.
00:25:06
Speaker
On that phase, if you shoot the potbelly ramp to Hawkeye to the left ramp, everything is triple.
00:25:15
Speaker
And one thing nobody realizes on this mode, because it doesn't do a very good job showing it, is after you attack... Crap, who's that?
00:25:25
Speaker
Whatever villain, Black Order villain that is on the left orbit.
00:25:28
Speaker
Oh, it's the Cornelius.
00:25:29
Speaker
Oh, Cornelius Glaive.
00:25:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:32
Speaker
Each pop bumper also adds a bunch of points to the final shot.
00:25:39
Speaker
So you shoot the left orbit, it gives you a point award, but each pop bumper, I think it's like 250K or something, additional points.
00:25:46
Speaker
But yeah, it gets kind of trounced with the display animations.
00:25:50
Speaker
That's on our list to fix.
00:25:51
Speaker
But yeah, it's pretty straightforward.
00:25:53
Speaker
If you just want to blow through the mode with the minimal points, right orbit, left orbit, if you want to build up points, you'll combo one of the two metal ramps in first.
00:26:03
Speaker
OK.
00:26:05
Speaker
And what's the... So here's the question, though.
00:26:08
Speaker
Each of these modes, they give you bonuses that carry out through the game.
00:26:12
Speaker
So what is the bonus on this one?
00:26:16
Speaker
So the bonus that you're eligible for would be the Soul Gem jackpot.
00:26:21
Speaker
But you first have to get the Soul Gem.
00:26:25
Speaker
So once you have the Soul Gem, then a certain percentage of the points you got in each mode, you can collect instantly as a jackpot when the mode's done, if you shoot the Soul Gem.
00:26:34
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:26:35
Speaker
So that's your incentive to do well.
00:26:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:26:38
Speaker
So we talked about mind, power, space.
00:26:40
Speaker
We got time.
00:26:43
Speaker
And, uh, which one?
00:26:46
Speaker
Do you see reality?
00:26:48
Speaker
No, well, uh, well, there's reality and there's time.
00:26:51
Speaker
Those are the last two.
00:26:53
Speaker
And so reality.
00:26:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:55
Speaker
I spin the disc, uh, have very many strange letters of lit.
00:26:59
Speaker
Those are your multiplier for the shot.
00:27:01
Speaker
So the letters will start counting down.
00:27:02
Speaker
So, uh,
00:27:04
Speaker
The more you can keep spinning the disc and shooting the yellow shots, the more points you can be.
00:27:08
Speaker
And I think that's probably the easiest mode in a game.
00:27:12
Speaker
And Tyne Gem is probably the hardest because that can really affect how you play the game.
00:27:19
Speaker
So if I do time gen first and win, then I know all my ball savers are extended and all my super modes from the drop targets, I can make them last for a very long time.
00:27:31
Speaker
So it's a game-changing gem if you make it.
00:27:35
Speaker
If you don't, then you kind of change strategy to probably not as much emphasis on the super modes and more on just the quests.
00:27:44
Speaker
Okay, because that's the one I typically choose.
00:27:46
Speaker
Man, that is a bugger.
00:27:47
Speaker
That is hard.
00:27:48
Speaker
It is hard, yeah.
00:27:51
Speaker
But that's by design, so.
00:27:53
Speaker
Yeah, well, it's a risk-reward, right?
00:27:55
Speaker
You're getting rewarded for the hardest one, yeah.
00:27:58
Speaker
Yeah, so there are six quests, or however many there are, and I wanted to, you know, two easy, two kind of hard, one middle of the road, so.
00:28:07
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:28:08
Speaker
Okay.
00:28:08
Speaker
Great power comes great difficulty.
00:28:12
Speaker
That's the Spider-Man mode.
00:28:13
Speaker
Okay.
00:28:14
Speaker
Now, one thing I do want to talk again, the other cardiac stress test I have is doing the soul gem.
00:28:21
Speaker
So let's talk about the soul gem.
00:28:23
Speaker
All right.
00:28:24
Speaker
So that is, that's the one that it's flipper counts.
00:28:29
Speaker
So you start with 30 and you have to go through all eight progressions.
00:28:35
Speaker
And it's also hard because I always, the first shot is the Panther shot, which is the orbit on the right.
00:28:43
Speaker
And so as soon as I activate it, I always hold up the right flipper because I want it to bounce over to the other flipper and I don't want to count that against my flips.
00:28:52
Speaker
Yeah, you got to shoot the Widow ramp.
00:28:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:54
Speaker
Well, the Widow is the second one.
00:28:57
Speaker
Yeah, but if your first shot should be the Widow ramp.
00:29:02
Speaker
rather than trying to pass the ball to the left flipper, because I don't think that's even possible.
00:29:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:07
Speaker
So yeah, Widow Ramp and then shoot Black Panther and then combo back into the Widow Ramp.
00:29:11
Speaker
So there's your tip.
00:29:14
Speaker
Oh, there you go.
00:29:14
Speaker
All right.
00:29:15
Speaker
That's good to know.
00:29:17
Speaker
Or if you have the Mind Gem 1, you can just hit the button and forget it.
00:29:21
Speaker
Oh, well, there you go.
00:29:24
Speaker
But yeah, that's that is every time I try to activate that, that is fun.
00:29:30
Speaker
It's it's great because you've you've collected all the Avengers.
00:29:33
Speaker
So that's how you start the mode.
00:29:34
Speaker
You collect all the Avengers and then you drop it down the subway.
00:29:39
Speaker
And so, yeah, that it's just a fun mode.
00:29:44
Speaker
That's not very common to actually have a flipper count on a mode.
00:29:49
Speaker
What was your inspiration for that one?
00:29:51
Speaker
It's something I experimented with in Jurassic Park.
00:29:55
Speaker
I was afraid to put it in, so we saved it for the topper mode and kind of made kind of a gag mode out of it just to see if it actually worked and if people hated it or not.
00:30:06
Speaker
Didn't really get much response, but I figured, okay, I'll just take that same premise and make it important.
00:30:13
Speaker
And, you know, make it stressful.
00:30:16
Speaker
Put it early in the game so, you know, average players will have a chance to play it.
00:30:22
Speaker
And I remember when Raymond first implemented it, I think you started off with like 20 flips and you got like five.
00:30:27
Speaker
And I was like, Ray, this isn't for us.
00:30:29
Speaker
This mode isn't for us, man.
00:30:32
Speaker
Let's give these people a chance.
00:30:34
Speaker
So, yeah, we boosted everything.
00:30:35
Speaker
And I think it's pretty good balance now of the average player has a good chance to beat it.
00:30:43
Speaker
I totally agree.
00:30:45
Speaker
I mean, it's, and it is one of those stressful modes as well, especially like you feel the pressure, especially when you drain and it's like, and we're taking five flips, but I do love that.
00:30:53
Speaker
It's, it's, uh, what's the word I'm looking for a little forgiving in that sense that if you do drain, you don't lose your ball.
00:30:58
Speaker
You just lose flips.
00:31:00
Speaker
That's pretty cool.
00:31:00
Speaker
It makes you think it's like, ah, do I try to save this ball, waste flips and drain, or do I just let it drain and take the five flips?
00:31:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:08
Speaker
And then, of course, the hardest part is after you've been playing that, your mind says, don't flip, don't flip.
00:31:13
Speaker
Oh, wait, no, I can flip now.
00:31:15
Speaker
Okay, I have never had, I think this game is going to start swearing at me, though.
00:31:22
Speaker
I am typically not a shaker or a mover, but I swear that I'm going to rattle this game right off the hinges because I am shaking it so much to keep it from actually draining.
00:31:33
Speaker
I'm surprised that I don't get more tilts.
00:31:36
Speaker
I'm actually surprised it's as draining as it is because it's shipped at the post all the way down.
00:31:40
Speaker
And that left side, I think the ball barely fits through there.
00:31:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:43
Speaker
Well, I saw your post where you actually, you updated it and you pointed to the left outlay and you said, don't move this.
00:31:55
Speaker
But that actually made me feel I love this game because it does feel like even me as an average player, I feel like I have a chance to actually get more into the game.
00:32:05
Speaker
And now the funny thing is, it's not really a slow game, though.
00:32:08
Speaker
It's actually pretty fast.
00:32:09
Speaker
I was over at my friend's house last night and we were playing Lord of the Rings and it felt like that was the slowest ball in the world.
00:32:16
Speaker
I felt like I could flip it, go get a drink, use the bathroom and come back and actually still destroy the ring.
00:32:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:25
Speaker
Those old sterns weren't the fastest.
00:32:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:27
Speaker
So the answer to your question about the left outlane, I hate when the ball's in the left outlane area, hits that metal rail and just dies and drains.
00:32:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:36
Speaker
I hate that.
00:32:36
Speaker
So that's why I put the left outlane post all the way down and the right outlane's a little wider.
00:32:43
Speaker
Does this have a ball save on Avengers?
00:32:45
Speaker
Because I know Jurassic Park does, but I can't remember if Avenger does or not on the left outlane.
00:32:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:51
Speaker
A ball save?
00:32:53
Speaker
Not ball save.
00:32:53
Speaker
Sorry.
00:32:54
Speaker
Kick back.
00:32:54
Speaker
Sorry.
00:32:55
Speaker
No.
00:32:55
Speaker
It's not the kickback.
00:32:57
Speaker
Gotcha.
00:32:57
Speaker
I went into this game.
00:32:59
Speaker
I was like, I don't want to play field multiplier and I don't want an outlane save.
00:33:02
Speaker
Gotcha.
00:33:03
Speaker
Because I did that in my previous two games.
00:33:05
Speaker
Gotcha.
00:33:07
Speaker
Well, I know that Nedry's on the right because I'm like, well, at least if I death save this, I still get the Nedry points too.
00:33:15
Speaker
Oh, see, every time I see that, I just think I'm nerdy.
00:33:18
Speaker
I always read it wrong.
00:33:20
Speaker
It's nerdy.
00:33:21
Speaker
So I was originally in Jurassic Park going to have, if you're on ball three and haven't done squat and you cashed in your Nedry, it would be a ball save, but we never ended up implementing that.
00:33:31
Speaker
Gotcha.
00:33:32
Speaker
Gotcha.
00:33:33
Speaker
That would be the boomerang, like what they used to do in old games where like on NBA Jam, you could only be like seven points ahead because it would actually start augmenting the guy who stinks.
00:33:44
Speaker
So they would actually catch up because otherwise they'd be like, it's not worth it.
00:33:48
Speaker
Yeah, that was that was my original intention.
00:33:50
Speaker
It's just like, I don't want that much randomness.
00:33:53
Speaker
It's fine.
00:33:54
Speaker
Just giving worthless points.
00:33:58
Speaker
So on Jurassic Park, we have Escape Nublar.
00:34:00
Speaker
Are you doing something with Avengers where it can be just a quick accessible mode from the flippers?
00:34:05
Speaker
Yes, it's a full version of Battle Royale.
00:34:08
Speaker
That's already in the game.
00:34:09
Speaker
Wow.
00:34:09
Speaker
Nice.
00:34:11
Speaker
It's already in the current code that we have out now.
00:34:13
Speaker
In.94?
00:34:14
Speaker
Correct.
00:34:14
Speaker
Yes.
00:34:15
Speaker
Oh, so you hold down the button.
00:34:18
Speaker
Okay, was that in.93?
00:34:19
Speaker
Because I didn't try that.
00:34:21
Speaker
It's been there since release.
00:34:22
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:34:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:26
Speaker
Scott, explore your game.
00:34:27
Speaker
Hey, I've been playing it.
00:34:29
Speaker
It's crazy.
00:34:30
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:31
Speaker
All right.
00:34:31
Speaker
So hold the flippers and see what happens.
00:34:34
Speaker
Good things will happen.
00:34:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:35
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:37
Speaker
So in the game itself as a wizard mode, there's a smaller version of Battle Royale that's much harder to beat, but it takes not nearly as long.
00:34:46
Speaker
So the minigame that you choose, I think all the shots are doubled, and it takes twice as long since it's a dedicated game.
00:34:54
Speaker
But yeah, actually, I haven't played it that much either.
00:34:58
Speaker
The funny thing is I've played it on Jurassic Park.
00:35:01
Speaker
I've played Escape from Nublar a lot.
00:35:03
Speaker
I still stink at it, but it's still a lot of fun.
00:35:05
Speaker
But I guess I never even thought, I thought that because it wasn't 1.0 that it hadn't been implemented.
00:35:10
Speaker
But okay, here's a pro tip for you kids.
00:35:14
Speaker
Well, that brings me to another point, too, then.
00:35:16
Speaker
I don't think this has ever been done in any other pinball machine.
00:35:21
Speaker
I'm a big fan of the 90s games because they're kind of easy to get to the wizard mode.
00:35:25
Speaker
But after you beat the wizard mode, it just starts back at the beginning.
00:35:29
Speaker
And it feels...
00:35:31
Speaker
anticlimactic to say the best because then you're like I really have to do this all over again it always it drove me nuts especially with the Addams family because of Tour of the Mansion but in Jurassic Park if you are lucky enough to secure the troll room do Museum Mayhem and visit the Visitor Center and you can finish Escape Nublar and you finish when Dinosaurs Roll the Earth the game's actually over
00:35:59
Speaker
And so is this, I don't think I've ever seen this in any other pinball machine.
00:36:03
Speaker
And so it makes you also think of, well, how do I get the most points if I'm actually going to try to complete this game as well?
00:36:09
Speaker
Is this something that you're trying to implement in all your games?
00:36:11
Speaker
Because this is awesome.
00:36:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:15
Speaker
As a player,
00:36:16
Speaker
When I get to the end of a game that takes a long time, it's like, you know, you use Lord of the Rings as an example.
00:36:23
Speaker
I've gotten to Valinor.
00:36:25
Speaker
I was like, what's the last thing you feel like doing after you're done with Valinor?
00:36:29
Speaker
And that's starting over.
00:36:31
Speaker
Keep flipping.
00:36:32
Speaker
Woo.
00:36:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:33
Speaker
So that's the approach I take now.
00:36:35
Speaker
It's like, you know, after playing for 45 minutes, do you really want to keep playing with everything reset?
00:36:40
Speaker
Or do you want to go in with a strategy knowing, hey, this is the end.
00:36:43
Speaker
It's like a video game.
00:36:44
Speaker
This is the end of the game.
00:36:45
Speaker
I got to get all the points I can before getting here.
00:36:48
Speaker
uh because it's the end so um and i thought jurassic park was perfect because it matches the storyline uh new bar blew up so what are you suddenly doing back at new bar with all the dinosaurs back so it didn't make any sense to restart the game uh i took a bunch of flack internally for thinking that but uh we put it in a game and i've only gotten positive comments from it so yeah that's probably something i'll be doing for all the games it was it's it's awesome
00:37:15
Speaker
Legitimately, how many people are really going to get to that point?
00:37:21
Speaker
You're talking about a very specific elite player who's knowing that that's it's like on Donkey Kong going for the kill screen.
00:37:30
Speaker
Like, you know where you're going.
00:37:31
Speaker
It's like I'm not going to stumble into it by by chimp flip in both sides.
00:37:36
Speaker
It's just not going to happen.
00:37:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:38
Speaker
It's just, I know some people would don't like, they'd like the never ending play forever game, but to me that you're going to get bored of it that way.
00:37:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:48
Speaker
I mean, it's like after, yeah, like I said, Lord of the Rings, you get Valinor.
00:37:51
Speaker
It's like, I don't want to play this anymore.
00:37:54
Speaker
You're just, you're just plunging and draining.
00:37:55
Speaker
You don't care.
00:37:56
Speaker
You just want to put your initials up and go.
00:37:58
Speaker
Exactly.
00:37:59
Speaker
Especially on a game like World of the Rings where you spend an hour.
00:38:01
Speaker
Well, probably for you, Keith, it's like 20 minutes.
00:38:04
Speaker
But for someone like us, it takes an hour, hour and a half.
00:38:08
Speaker
You finally finish Valinor and you're like, and I'm rewarded with flips more.
00:38:13
Speaker
I don't know.
00:38:16
Speaker
It's funny because we always talk about, well, pinball, you can never win pinball.
00:38:20
Speaker
It's just unwinnable.
00:38:21
Speaker
But doing this literally makes it winnable.
00:38:24
Speaker
You're trying to get to the game over screen.
00:38:27
Speaker
Yeah, so not only winnable, but you get a little bonus game if you do everything correctly and when dinosaurs ruled the earth.
00:38:33
Speaker
So you can add another billion to your score when the game's over if you beat all the mini wizards.
00:38:41
Speaker
So yeah, I like that formula.
00:38:44
Speaker
I'll probably stick to it.
00:38:46
Speaker
I love it too.
00:38:48
Speaker
Well, it reminds me, like TNA was really the first one that I can think of that actually had the kill screen, I guess.
00:38:54
Speaker
But this feels, it feels perfect.
00:38:57
Speaker
I love other games being able to look at those things and being able to do different things.
00:39:02
Speaker
It's awesome.
00:39:03
Speaker
Yeah, that's true.
00:39:04
Speaker
TNA did do that.
00:39:05
Speaker
I think you still plunged your balls, but yeah, it's pretty much, yeah, same concept.
00:39:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:10
Speaker
Oh, I forgot about that.
00:39:11
Speaker
Sorry, Scott.
00:39:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:13
Speaker
Denisey.
00:39:14
Speaker
He's the man.
00:39:15
Speaker
He gets the credit for that.
00:39:16
Speaker
Hey, I just wanted to make sure that we're going to get, you know, the three emails that we get.
00:39:21
Speaker
Hey, you forgot about this.
00:39:23
Speaker
I totally forgot about that, too.
00:39:24
Speaker
I haven't played that game forever.
00:39:26
Speaker
Yeah.
Avengers Pinball Features and Mechanisms
00:39:28
Speaker
Hey, so I want to talk about the drop target bingo card on the left, too.
00:39:33
Speaker
All right.
00:39:34
Speaker
So it's been a while since I've seen one of these in a game.
00:39:38
Speaker
And tell me about what your thought process of putting it in and exactly what do you do with it?
00:39:46
Speaker
I still haven't really figured out how to maximize it.
00:39:50
Speaker
My thought process was I'm a big fan of the old Tic-Tac-Toe games.
00:39:55
Speaker
Big Game was one of my favorite games growing up.
00:39:59
Speaker
It was kind of lost and forgotten, and then Ripley's comes along and kind of does its own implementation.
00:40:05
Speaker
The thing I didn't like about Ripley's, though, was it was really hard to get those squares, and so I wanted to make it more upfront in gameplay, so...
00:40:15
Speaker
So I decided to go with the squares that kind of rove.
00:40:18
Speaker
So you choose, you lock it in.
00:40:20
Speaker
It's not random like Ripley's where you're trying to nudge it into a lane.
00:40:26
Speaker
And the awards are not locked in either.
00:40:28
Speaker
So you have to use the LCD screen to see what bingo grids award.
00:40:35
Speaker
So that gave me a lot of flexibility in what I could do with it.
00:40:37
Speaker
So we got mini wizards modes in there.
00:40:39
Speaker
We got six modes total, I think, and a bunch of other random awards.
00:40:45
Speaker
that is my thought process.
00:40:47
Speaker
I'm not sure if you need to elaborate.
00:40:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:49
Speaker
So if, if you, is there a bonus for blacking it out for getting like all nine squares or.
00:40:56
Speaker
The most you can do is I think you can get a quadruple bingo if you have the power gem on there.
00:41:01
Speaker
So that is the most you can do.
00:41:03
Speaker
So it's, there's a list of awards that you see on the instant info.
00:41:07
Speaker
And each time you collect the bingo, you collect that award and the list moves up and there's a wizard and any wizard mode in there.
00:41:14
Speaker
called Computer Frenzy.
00:41:15
Speaker
So the more bingo grids you knock out, the closer you get to Computer Frenzy.
00:41:20
Speaker
And you hit a bingo to light Computer Frenzy at the right ramp.
00:41:27
Speaker
And then you play that mini wizard mode.
00:41:29
Speaker
And then once you're done with that, I think the whole thing just resets.
00:41:33
Speaker
I just got thinking about this.
00:41:35
Speaker
Where did the idea from the trophies come from?
00:41:37
Speaker
Because I don't know why, but every time I think of trophies, I think of PlayStation.
00:41:40
Speaker
When you unlock something, you get a trophy for it for your case.
00:41:43
Speaker
Was that kind of similar to this or was it just Iron Man has a lot of hardware in his tower, so we're putting trophies as a thing you can obtain?
00:41:51
Speaker
Yeah, I can't answer that, but you're warm.
00:41:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:41:56
Speaker
Okay.
00:41:57
Speaker
Yeah, I know.
00:41:57
Speaker
I see a lot of feedback.
00:41:58
Speaker
What does that have to do with Avengers?
00:41:59
Speaker
It's like, you're right.
00:42:00
Speaker
It has nothing to do with Avengers.
00:42:01
Speaker
It has something to do with something else someday, maybe.
00:42:04
Speaker
Hey, it's still fun.
00:42:06
Speaker
I like it.
00:42:07
Speaker
Exactly.
00:42:09
Speaker
It's reminiscent of every time Keith was holding up that Pemberg trophy, which is sadly we're not going to see anymore.
00:42:16
Speaker
Something will happen.
00:42:18
Speaker
Here's my take on that.
00:42:19
Speaker
I know that we're all in semi-morning for the replay and Papa and what they're doing, but the bottom line is...
00:42:27
Speaker
This isn't like 2002, 2003 when the interest in pinball is waning.
00:42:33
Speaker
And it's actually, if anything, it's on a crescendo and it's growing exponentially.
00:42:39
Speaker
And when all this craziness is over, there's enough interested parties to make something happen.
00:42:46
Speaker
And I don't know what that is going to be or how it's going to be implemented.
00:42:50
Speaker
But I think there will be some sort of Super Bowl winner take all of pinball again.
00:42:56
Speaker
And, uh, probably something similar where it's like the math, you know, like Papa would be like the masters of it where it's like, Hey, an invitational to the top 64 players and see what you can do with the best of the best.
00:43:09
Speaker
Um, but I, I still think something like that's going to happen.
00:43:12
Speaker
I know that's a clunky transition, but I don't know.
00:43:15
Speaker
What do you guys think?
00:43:16
Speaker
Oh, it was a sad day, wasn't it?
00:43:18
Speaker
Yes.
00:43:18
Speaker
Very.
00:43:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:20
Speaker
Uh,
00:43:22
Speaker
As sad as it is, I mean, you got to appreciate Kevin Martin and everything he put into that, uh, for keep it going out of his own pocket for all those years.
00:43:30
Speaker
So it's hard, hard to blame him for it.
00:43:33
Speaker
It's like, yeah, I can't do this anymore.
00:43:34
Speaker
So, um, but, uh, kudos to him for making it what it was and, uh, what it could be.
00:43:41
Speaker
And bummer for me, because now I got to figure out what to do with the 30 games I have.
00:43:45
Speaker
I loaned them.
00:43:47
Speaker
Oh.
00:43:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:50
Speaker
Just bring them back to Chicago and start up Elwyn's Basement or something.
00:43:54
Speaker
I'm so happy to get rid of all my storage units now.
00:43:58
Speaker
Well, you can contact Logan's Arcade and see if they have an annex.
00:44:02
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:44:03
Speaker
There you go.
00:44:04
Speaker
The one that made me chuckle, though, Ian Harrowar, who listens to the show, he posted, you know, looking at the 2020 IFPA numbers, he can safely say that he thinks that the dollar fee is what killed competition play.
00:44:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:17
Speaker
It's the Fight Club reset on the IFPA.
00:44:19
Speaker
It's needed.
00:44:20
Speaker
It's fine.
00:44:22
Speaker
Okay, I do want to talk more about portal locks.
00:44:25
Speaker
Apparently, that's the only thing I care about is this game right now.
00:44:28
Speaker
So tell me about the portal locks.
00:44:30
Speaker
Tell me how... I know you get them by combos, but a lot of times I either get them either by doing a skill shot or by dumb luck.
00:44:41
Speaker
So how do you tell me to use the portal locks?
00:44:44
Speaker
Well, if you're saying dumb luck, you must be the one on the bingo grid.
00:44:47
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:44:48
Speaker
Sure.
00:44:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:49
Speaker
Because there is one there.
00:44:52
Speaker
Obviously the secret skill shot, which is very hard.
00:44:55
Speaker
So that's not dumb luck.
00:44:56
Speaker
So either you're shooting combos or getting your super secret skill shot, or you are completing the correct line, bingo line on the drop targets.
00:45:06
Speaker
That'll raise that disc up there.
00:45:07
Speaker
You shoot the ball in there.
00:45:09
Speaker
Your next quests will either be double value or triple value, depending on if you have one or two locks.
00:45:17
Speaker
Yeah, this is a play dynamic I experimented with.
00:45:24
Speaker
I know other games have done it, but I'm not sure if they acted as multipliers as well.
00:45:28
Speaker
I was kind of thinking, OK, it's like a physical multiplier.
00:45:31
Speaker
Because as long as you have old school Fathom style, as long as you have these amount of balls in play, that's your multiplier.
00:45:38
Speaker
And as you drain one, and then it goes down to 2x.
00:45:40
Speaker
And if you drain down to one ball, the scoring goes back to 1x.
00:45:44
Speaker
So that was my thought process behind that.
00:45:48
Speaker
I'm just happy that the up-down disk has been pretty much flawless.
00:45:53
Speaker
That was something that I was worried about when we were designing that, because it's never been done.
00:45:58
Speaker
and, uh, it seems, it seems fine.
00:46:01
Speaker
Well, and you bring this up and I know that you kind of talked about an insider, so I know maybe a handful of people haven't heard this yet, but, um, cause a lot of people refer back to as Circus Voltaire, but you, you had mentioned in there that you knew that there were so much issues with Circus Voltaire.
00:46:15
Speaker
That's actually what pushed you towards this idea, correct?
00:46:18
Speaker
Um, no, actually it's funny.
00:46:20
Speaker
I never thought of it that way when I was designing it.
00:46:23
Speaker
Uh, I've owned two Circus Voltaires in my life too, which is funny, but, uh,
00:46:27
Speaker
I just remember Circus Voltaire that spring.
00:46:30
Speaker
I hated that.
00:46:33
Speaker
So the thing that Harrison designed looks like kind of a golf tee.
00:46:39
Speaker
So it just shoves the ball down in that hole and it does not come back out.
00:46:43
Speaker
So that's just funny.
00:46:45
Speaker
Whenever I think of circus, I just think of hitting that thing and not going down into the hole and me cursing at it, getting rid of the game, buying another one, trying to get it.
00:46:53
Speaker
It was like, oh, now I remember why I got rid of this.
00:46:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:56
Speaker
We'll buy a third now and replace it with your mechanic.
00:46:58
Speaker
You'll be good to go.
00:47:02
Speaker
So actually, I thought I found a glitch because one time I activated something and it was telling me to spin the disc, but it was in the up position.
00:47:13
Speaker
Oh, super disc?
00:47:14
Speaker
Yeah, that's the thing.
00:47:16
Speaker
If you have that running when you've got a portal lock...
00:47:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:19
Speaker
So I was like, I can't do this.
00:47:22
Speaker
You can, you can air ball into it.
00:47:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:28
Speaker
But actually, okay.
00:47:30
Speaker
I will say that the best part about this game is there's so many wire form ramps.
00:47:34
Speaker
If I get an air ball, it's going to be caught by something.
00:47:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:39
Speaker
I remember where we're looking at the whitewood and it was like, Oh my God, nobody's going to be able to see the ball.
00:47:46
Speaker
Well, but that's the nice part about the premium because I played on Scott's LE.
00:47:50
Speaker
I still feel like I can see everything.
00:47:52
Speaker
I don't feel like I'm being blocked by wire forms.
00:47:54
Speaker
I'm sorry, but I then played as Ninja Turtles Premium, and I felt you can't see the top half of Turtles Premium because of the wire forms and the contraption in the middle for the diverter.
00:48:06
Speaker
And so I'm very impressed that you've included all this wire form, yet I don't feel claustrophobic is probably the best word I can think of.
00:48:14
Speaker
So ball vision is very important to me.
00:48:17
Speaker
All three of my games, especially with the upper flipper, I need to see the ball coming to the upper flipper.
00:48:22
Speaker
So I try to keep that as open as possible.
00:48:24
Speaker
Iron Maiden is a good example.
00:48:26
Speaker
I just wanted the ramps out of the way so you can see the ball going around those loops and just have good vision.
00:48:32
Speaker
To me, that's important.
00:48:34
Speaker
Is that also why you did the because in most games when the ball comes back around to the upper flipper, it usually goes back through the back box and then comes around to the flipper or, you know, it usually makes the loop around back with the Hawkeye one.
00:48:45
Speaker
It comes right in front.
00:48:46
Speaker
It almost displays the ball in front of you as it comes to your flipper.
00:48:49
Speaker
Was that part of the reason?
00:48:50
Speaker
Does you want a vision or is it just something different than what's been done before?
00:48:56
Speaker
Yeah, I just wanted to do something different.
00:48:58
Speaker
I'm trying something different on the plunge for all my games.
00:49:00
Speaker
I was like, how cool would it be if you plunge into a ramp?
00:49:03
Speaker
You know, it's just, yeah, I was just trying something different.
00:49:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:08
Speaker
Which is way cool.
00:49:08
Speaker
Yeah, it's great.
00:49:10
Speaker
And I will say that what you did on that Potbelly ramp that comes around to return,
00:49:16
Speaker
That really, and I told Ray Day this, that it makes the upper flipper so much more usable.
00:49:23
Speaker
A lot of times with the upper flipper, the ball is screaming past it and you're hitting it and just hoping that something good happens.
00:49:30
Speaker
But the way you did the return, it actually makes the upper flipper a calculating shot, something that you can line up and do repeatedly, which I don't think I've ever seen any other game where I have reliably used the upper flipper as much as I do in this one.
00:49:46
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the upper flipper is primarily there to shoot the disc, but I did give it a couple other shots.
00:49:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:53
Speaker
So, yeah, just like Jurassic, I wanted a ramp that fed an upper flipper.
00:49:58
Speaker
And obviously Jurassic Park, when it's kind of a fast flowing through to the upper flipper.
00:50:04
Speaker
And so this one is like, well, we're actually going reverse gravity because it comes down and then back up again.
00:50:10
Speaker
Um, so yeah, it was a nice little, nice little setup shot to shoot the disc hopefully, but if, or if you want to keep shooting that ramp or shoot the Hawkeye, uh,
00:50:19
Speaker
Well, the hockey challenge, that is another one where it's just that stress test where I probably, I probably get it two out of 10 times just because it's stuck up into the tower.
00:50:28
Speaker
And then when it drops, you know, it's either too soon or too late or it is a hard shot.
00:50:34
Speaker
My biggest regret is I guessing most people have not seen the level three difficulty on that where the drop is random.
00:50:41
Speaker
Oh yeah, no, I haven't.
00:50:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:44
Speaker
So it goes, you know, get ready.
00:50:46
Speaker
And you're just like, wait, the ball did drop.
00:50:50
Speaker
So you think something's wrong.
00:50:51
Speaker
And then it just releases it without warning.
00:50:54
Speaker
Like an amusement park.
00:50:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:57
Speaker
So yeah, we're going to put a fourth level in called the Carl D'Angelo challenge.
00:51:01
Speaker
Nice.
00:51:01
Speaker
So it's going to be a random drop.
00:51:03
Speaker
You have to shoot the Hawkeye and the middle drop target without shooting any of the other drop targets to, to win the fourth level.
00:51:10
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:51:11
Speaker
what the fourth one should be though is it should drop randomly, but the up post stops, stops the ball right before it gets to the flipper and then drops again.
00:51:18
Speaker
So that way it does like a psych thing.
00:51:22
Speaker
Psych.
00:51:23
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:51:24
Speaker
That's great though.
00:51:25
Speaker
I, I, I do love it.
00:51:27
Speaker
Okay.
00:51:28
Speaker
I also saw you post something and I, I, I'm probably not as good of a player to figure out how to do this, but I saw you had two balls locked up in the Avengers tower.
00:51:39
Speaker
Yes.
00:51:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:40
Speaker
Okay, so tell me how to do that.
00:51:42
Speaker
I've never been able to do that.
00:51:43
Speaker
So during Iron Man multiball, especially with the new code update, you just shoot the two orange shots.
00:51:51
Speaker
Once you do that, it lights the tower for super jackpots.
00:51:54
Speaker
So you have 15 seconds to shoot two balls in there.
00:51:59
Speaker
It's not always guaranteed to catch a second ball, but at least on mine at home, it's pretty consistent.
00:52:05
Speaker
So...
00:52:06
Speaker
Yeah, just 15 seconds, you shoot one for a super jackpot.
00:52:10
Speaker
And if you shoot another in there before time runs out, you get a double super jackpot.
00:52:14
Speaker
Oh, got it.
00:52:14
Speaker
The old Iron Man rules, you had to spin the disc first.
00:52:17
Speaker
We got rid of that.
00:52:17
Speaker
You could just shoot the tower now.
00:52:19
Speaker
Oh.
00:52:20
Speaker
Yeah, because I know the Iron Man, it seems that I end up starting it usually during a mode.
00:52:26
Speaker
And so I'm just using the balls to fly around the playfield and collect as many points as I possibly can.
00:52:32
Speaker
Yeah, that's one of the reasons I boosted the scoring in Iron Man multiball in.94.
00:52:37
Speaker
I figured it was just being used as a vessel to further your quests.
00:52:41
Speaker
So I wanted that one because it's harder to start than Thor.
00:52:44
Speaker
I wanted that one to at least have some scoring potential.
00:52:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:49
Speaker
It definitely is.
00:52:50
Speaker
You know, I thought it'd be easy to do Iron Man, but play on Scots.
00:52:53
Speaker
I felt like, because you can't just switch, you know, knowing Keith, you can't just do it the easy way.
00:52:58
Speaker
You just press the flippers and do lane changes.
00:53:00
Speaker
You got to hit the disc to move those iron letters.
00:53:03
Speaker
And so it's surprisingly harder to get Iron Man multiball than I thought it would be.
00:53:08
Speaker
Yeah, it is.
00:53:10
Speaker
Yeah, well, that's why I implemented the other secret skill shot.
00:53:13
Speaker
So you just wait for the lit square when it gets to lock.
00:53:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:18
Speaker
you shoot the middle drop target and it awards you that square.
00:53:22
Speaker
So try that.
00:53:25
Speaker
Usually when it's on the bottom left, the square starts blinking.
00:53:31
Speaker
That's when you plunge.
00:53:32
Speaker
And then by the time the ball gets to your flipper, it should be on the lock square.
00:53:35
Speaker
And if you hit the middle drop target, there's your instant Iron Man lock.
00:53:40
Speaker
Oh, nice.
00:53:41
Speaker
Is that a short plunge or a full plunge?
00:53:42
Speaker
There's a full plunge around the whole ramp.
00:53:45
Speaker
And the middle drop target, it just has to include the middle drop target.
00:53:48
Speaker
You can shoot the top two, the bottom two.
00:53:50
Speaker
As long as the middle one's included, it'll award whatever bingo square is flashing.
00:53:54
Speaker
So if you hit the lock one when it's flashing, that saves you a lot of trouble.
00:53:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:59
Speaker
Nice.
00:54:00
Speaker
Cool.
00:54:01
Speaker
I love that you have all these skill shots too.
00:54:04
Speaker
Exploring Jurassic Park, you can explore it just for the secret skill shots.
00:54:08
Speaker
There's four or five of them and it's just amazing.
00:54:12
Speaker
Yeah, I like exploring things that are secret.
00:54:14
Speaker
That's why I made the DNA combos kind of a secret in a game release.
00:54:18
Speaker
I didn't really tell anyone how to get them.
00:54:22
Speaker
I still smile with Mr. DNA when he pops up.
00:54:25
Speaker
It's so funny.
00:54:26
Speaker
My friend said, can I get that as a ringtone?
00:54:27
Speaker
I was like, sure.
00:54:29
Speaker
And then hanging out with them, all I hear is, da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da.
00:54:31
Speaker
He's like, that's awesome.
00:54:34
Speaker
It's great.
00:54:35
Speaker
So I know that you talked on Jurassic Park.
00:54:37
Speaker
You didn't want to do a flipper in it, an upper flipper.
00:54:40
Speaker
But as you started to play it, you just felt like something was missing.
00:54:44
Speaker
I know now with Avengers, you have an upper flipper.
00:54:47
Speaker
Are you trying to actively not put an upper flipper in maybe future titles because you feel like it's getting overplayed?
00:54:53
Speaker
Or do you just love upper flippers?
00:54:55
Speaker
I love upper flippers.
00:54:56
Speaker
I love upper flippers.
00:54:57
Speaker
They're great.
00:54:59
Speaker
It's funny because my wife even, she doesn't play much pinball, but she's always like, make sure the games have upper flippers.
00:55:04
Speaker
So now we have Turtles.
00:55:05
Speaker
We'll have Avengers on the way.
00:55:07
Speaker
We have Jurassic Park.
00:55:08
Speaker
The only game I don't have an upper flipper is World Cup soccer.
00:55:10
Speaker
So obviously we have a type.
00:55:14
Speaker
Yeah, no, I like upper flippers.
00:55:16
Speaker
My next game has one.
00:55:17
Speaker
It has an unusual twist.
00:55:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:24
Speaker
I'll just leave that there.
00:55:26
Speaker
I'll just leave that.
00:55:27
Speaker
A juicy morsel.
00:55:30
Speaker
I think it's so funny because we always talk like Avengers has been out what two months now.
00:55:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:34
Speaker
And it's funny because people are always like, what's, what's the next thing?
00:55:37
Speaker
What's the next thing.
00:55:38
Speaker
And I got to admit, I really think this all blindsided us with Avengers because we weren't expecting another Keith L one game this year.
00:55:45
Speaker
Jurassic park had been out since July of last year.
00:55:48
Speaker
And then all of a sudden here comes Avengers in September.
00:55:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:51
Speaker
As a game designer, we don't stop until the game releases.
00:55:54
Speaker
We have to, we have to move on to the next project.
00:55:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:57
Speaker
Okay.
00:55:58
Speaker
I will say it is amazing though.
00:56:00
Speaker
Like when I, when I found out that yes, this next one, and I basically, I, I knew about a couple hours before it was released that it was you and it was zombie Yeti.
00:56:11
Speaker
And that was when I called and I said, I want an LA put me on the list because I was like, I, I, I have a Jurassic park, which is my next favorite game to play right next to it.
00:56:21
Speaker
And it's like, I, I gotta have the, the longterm one on this one.
00:56:25
Speaker
So nice.
00:56:27
Speaker
Well, just like Josh Sharp said on our show, I mean, it's getting harder and harder because if you're releasing a game a year, now we're having to figure out what games we have to get rid of to get the next Keith Elwin game.
00:56:38
Speaker
And like, seriously, like I played Jurassic Park in the bars and whatnot, and I really enjoyed it.
00:56:43
Speaker
But now that I've gotten it home, it is addictive.
00:56:47
Speaker
It is just, I can't even explain.
00:56:49
Speaker
Once you get that flow down and you get in the zone, like everyone knows that feeling when, when you feel like the flippers are getting closer together because you just can't drain and you're hitting all the shots just like,
00:57:01
Speaker
beautifully there's something magical happens and and with your games it rewards you for that like it's not chopping wood it's not doing this and that and i love that you especially in jurassic park i don't know with avengers yet but you can stack everything like i felt like well i guess you can't stack t-rex and control room modes but like i can knock out a dinosaur while i'm working on a t-rex mode or i can i can knock out a control room while i'm trying to capture another dinosaur and it's just it's fantastic yeah thanks i think the key to stacking is uh
00:57:31
Speaker
Limit what you can't stack.
00:57:33
Speaker
Otherwise, it just becomes, hey, just stack everything.
00:57:35
Speaker
That becomes the thing.
00:57:36
Speaker
Right.
00:57:38
Speaker
Well, and I think you were talking about, if I remember correctly, you were talking about when you were starting up designing, Lyman said to make sure they don't just go for the multiballs.
00:57:52
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:57:53
Speaker
And so I've always thought about that, is that it does make it feel different when you're playing a game.
00:58:00
Speaker
Because when I'm playing on a single ball, you're taking targeted shots.
00:58:04
Speaker
When you're playing a multi-ball, especially that first 10 seconds, you're just hitting as fast as you can and looking at the flippers and knowing where the shots are, but not really following where the balls are.
00:58:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:58:16
Speaker
You know, some people give you flack, oh, Thor multiball's not worth very much.
00:58:18
Speaker
It was like, dude, you hit the captive ball three times.
00:58:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:22
Speaker
What do you want?
00:58:24
Speaker
That's the Bozo multiball for a reason.
00:58:25
Speaker
It's also not that hard, yeah.
00:58:27
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:58:28
Speaker
However, it is good if you're trying to get that extra...
00:58:32
Speaker
help though when you're uh when you have that difficult uh soul gem yeah yeah no it's a strategic multi-ball that's it's a helper the thor helper yeah i guess not soul gem but you know one of the other power gems you're trying to to just like hey i just need a few extra shots so we had the added thing on avengers is all the uh
00:58:51
Speaker
the drop target modes share a single timer.
00:58:54
Speaker
So if you start another mode while one's running, then that timer resets.
00:58:58
Speaker
So I think Raymond, the party started, as what Raymond calls it.
00:59:04
Speaker
Once he starts one, he'll play that for a while.
00:59:06
Speaker
And then the timer starts getting low.
00:59:07
Speaker
He'll try to bring in another one to reset the timer.
00:59:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:11
Speaker
And so that is basically how all the – because it doesn't really seem like when they're attacking you, you brought the Deadpool thing.
00:59:19
Speaker
When they're attacking you, that seems to be more of just like how long you are taking, right?
00:59:23
Speaker
It's kind of a controlled descent on your power level, right?
00:59:27
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:59:28
Speaker
It's basically just a bonus for finishing it faster.
00:59:31
Speaker
But you can't lose.
00:59:33
Speaker
You only lose while draining.
00:59:36
Speaker
Well, but I also, like I love on Jurassic Park, though, like T-Rex multiball can be as lucrative as you want it to be or is what your skill range can be, you know?
00:59:45
Speaker
If you're able to hit all those shots and then start the T-Rex, feed T-Rex, man, you can blow that game up.
00:59:50
Speaker
So long as you're paying attention, too, you got to hit the red arrows, not the blue ones.
00:59:54
Speaker
And just yesterday I got $117 million on that.
00:59:57
Speaker
And I was just...
00:59:59
Speaker
I felt like I was King Kong.
01:00:02
Speaker
It amazes me the more and more I am discovering about these games.
01:00:07
Speaker
And I cannot wait to get Avengers.
01:00:09
Speaker
I cannot wait to explore this game as well.
01:00:12
Speaker
And the problem is, you've ruined other games for me, Keith.
01:00:15
Speaker
Seriously, I can't go up to a 90s game now.
01:00:17
Speaker
I had Attack for Mars.
01:00:19
Speaker
It was enjoyable.
01:00:20
Speaker
It really is.
01:00:21
Speaker
It's a fun game.
01:00:21
Speaker
There's a reason it's towards the top of the list.
01:00:24
Speaker
But it feels like it's missing something now because the depth of the games that our recent games have had.
01:00:29
Speaker
And I feel like you're pushing pinball further because I don't know if it's because we all have ADHD or what it is.
01:00:35
Speaker
And so our brain demands more while we're playing pinball.
01:00:39
Speaker
But it's funny because Jurassic Park just feels like, to me, it hits that itch that I didn't know I needed in pinball.
01:00:48
Speaker
Oh, thank you.
01:00:48
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:50
Speaker
My goal is to not necessarily have the deepest game in the world, but have a game with multiple paths.
01:00:56
Speaker
Yeah, I think that is certainly the key to a fun game where you don't want to just plot through the same path every single time.
01:01:05
Speaker
Yes.
01:01:07
Speaker
And also, it's important to me to have some kind of basic gameplay.
01:01:10
Speaker
So Iron Maiden, pretty much every shot works towards the cyber multiball game.
01:01:16
Speaker
Obviously Jurassic Park, the paddock is the main, you know, base gameplay and Avengers, you're collecting Avengers as your base gameplay.
01:01:23
Speaker
So I want every shot to mean something in some way, not just all or nothing.
01:01:28
Speaker
Well, you didn't get a mode or a multiball.
01:01:29
Speaker
You're just shooting shots.
01:01:32
Speaker
So, yeah, that's my philosophy right there.
01:01:37
Speaker
Love it.
01:01:38
Speaker
Everything about it.
01:01:39
Speaker
It's just, it's fantastic.
01:01:40
Speaker
Seriously.
01:01:41
Speaker
I'm sorry.
01:01:42
Speaker
I sound like a little fanboy crushing.
01:01:43
Speaker
I do apologize.
01:01:45
Speaker
I'm pretty turned off right now.
01:01:49
Speaker
But no, I just, if you haven't played a Keith L1 game, please do yourself a favor.
Keith Elwin's Achievements and Hobbies
01:01:54
Speaker
Go out to your favorite, your favorite game place or rent one for a month.
01:01:59
Speaker
the whopping 200 bucks you support someone local and and play one of these because there's a reason that keith's games are all in the top what 20 of pin side easily avengers last time i checked avengers is at nine uh jurassic park is at two and iron maiden i want to say is it maybe 13 i can't remember i do apologize but but i mean that that's saying something all of your games are just up there and so there's there's got to be a reason for it so
01:02:25
Speaker
Thank you, sir.
01:02:28
Speaker
Sorry, Scott, throwing you off, throwing you off on a tangent again.
01:02:31
Speaker
Oh, no, it's fine.
01:02:32
Speaker
No, I was actually just thinking of like anything else.
01:02:35
Speaker
I mean, legitimately, the you've kind of become my go to design for like the last games that will be leaving the house.
01:02:44
Speaker
So it's yeah, it's right.
01:02:46
Speaker
It's
01:02:48
Speaker
It's pushing the boundaries on what we're doing in pinball, which is as it's an express train to a new, new frontier that we didn't think was possible because pinball has been around for almost a hundred years.
01:03:00
Speaker
So, Oh yeah.
01:03:02
Speaker
I've loved it since I was a kid.
01:03:03
Speaker
I mean, it's, I'm enjoying myself.
01:03:07
Speaker
So we heard that you're going for the big franchises now.
01:03:09
Speaker
And we saw that Disney princesses are on this list.
01:03:12
Speaker
So when are we going to get our Keith Elwin Disney princesses game?
01:03:15
Speaker
That's what I really want to know.
01:03:16
Speaker
That's what the families across America want to know.
01:03:18
Speaker
Josh wants to collect all the princesses.
01:03:19
Speaker
That's what he wants to do.
01:03:21
Speaker
I want to get my gorillas pin done.
01:03:23
Speaker
Yes.
01:03:24
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
01:03:25
Speaker
A little Clint Eastwood.
01:03:26
Speaker
Oh, yes.
01:03:27
Speaker
That would be awesome.
01:03:29
Speaker
Wait, are you talking gorillas like the band?
01:03:31
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:31
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:33
Speaker
Okay.
01:03:33
Speaker
The cartoon band.
01:03:34
Speaker
The cartoon band.
01:03:35
Speaker
How amazing would that be?
01:03:38
Speaker
Actually, that would be pretty good.
01:03:40
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:41
Speaker
Well, I don't think it's been done yet because they're more of a, I guess it depends on your definition of gorillas, but they're more of a hip hop mix.
01:03:47
Speaker
We haven't really had that in pinball yet.
01:03:49
Speaker
That'd be, that'd be amazing to see.
01:03:50
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:52
Speaker
That artwork though, man.
01:03:55
Speaker
Well, have you seen them live?
01:03:57
Speaker
Well, kind of.
01:04:00
Speaker
They had that movie that came out, right?
01:04:02
Speaker
Like that was the animated concert movie.
01:04:05
Speaker
They do that?
01:04:06
Speaker
I think so.
01:04:07
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:08
Speaker
No, that'd be legit.
01:04:10
Speaker
I would back that.
01:04:11
Speaker
But then again, like Jeff Teala said, I think we kind of made Laundry Day trending on Facebook when you talked about that.
01:04:19
Speaker
So people are really looking forward to their Keith Owen Laundry Day game.
01:04:23
Speaker
Yeah, you know, household chores.
01:04:25
Speaker
That's one of my favorite Simpsons episode where they had the yard work simulator.
01:04:29
Speaker
That's kind of, that's kind of where I'm thinking there.
01:04:33
Speaker
That would be amazing.
01:04:34
Speaker
Sounds a little Tom Sawyer-esque where you're getting someone to out to do your work, where you're the paint the fence multi-ball.
01:04:41
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:42
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:42
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:43
Speaker
Oh God.
01:04:44
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:47
Speaker
Well, Keith, I know that we have, we've come up on basically an hour, but we know we, we,
01:04:54
Speaker
One, do you need any more hats?
01:04:55
Speaker
And two, we have a hoodie that we are just releasing that we'd love to send you a copy of that.
01:05:01
Speaker
Well done.
01:05:03
Speaker
I could use another hat.
01:05:03
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:04
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:05
Speaker
We just barely, we just barely wrapped them up.
01:05:07
Speaker
So we'll get that sent off.
01:05:09
Speaker
Go ahead and contact us too.
01:05:11
Speaker
If any of the listeners are interested in getting one of those suckers, Josh just got a new, it's actually a pretty fun hoodie design because we had a few requests for that.
01:05:22
Speaker
And so we'll go ahead and throw that up on the Facebook page too.
01:05:25
Speaker
Yeah, we just barely finalized it.
01:05:27
Speaker
So we'll definitely... I'll shoot you over a picture of it, Keith, and see what you think.
01:05:31
Speaker
I know Kate, we sent a picture to her because when we talked to you last time about our beanies, you're like, you got to talk to Kate.
01:05:36
Speaker
She's the one, when it comes to fashion, she'll lead you straight.
01:05:38
Speaker
So she's actually been helping us a little bit with it too.
01:05:41
Speaker
I just wore the beanie, I think, two days ago.
01:05:44
Speaker
Nice.
01:05:45
Speaker
Lovely Chicago weather.
01:05:47
Speaker
It's got to be better than this Utah weather.
01:05:49
Speaker
It bounces from single digits up to what were 40, 45 today.
01:05:53
Speaker
It's goofy, so...
01:05:55
Speaker
Okay, but I wear the old school beanie, the one with like the pom-pom on the top and the stripes.
01:06:00
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
01:06:00
Speaker
That's the one I've been rocking.
01:06:02
Speaker
The 70s beanie.
01:06:04
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
01:06:05
Speaker
It's because it's fleece lined and like this isn't a secret, but you're bald.
01:06:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
01:06:12
Speaker
Hey, just, you know what?
01:06:13
Speaker
My dad always said, God only create a few perfect heads in the world.
01:06:17
Speaker
The rest he had to put hair on.
01:06:18
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:21
Speaker
I think that pretty much wraps up unless you have something else for us, Keith, that you want to you want to talk about.
01:06:26
Speaker
It doesn't have to be pinball related, you know, so.
01:06:30
Speaker
Well, since it's COVID, I'm not really doing much.
01:06:32
Speaker
So, oh, wait, wait, I saw something.
01:06:35
Speaker
You posted a drone footage.
01:06:39
Speaker
Was that like?
01:06:40
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah.
01:06:41
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:41
Speaker
So were you flying around your apartment?
01:06:43
Speaker
What was that?
01:06:44
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:45
Speaker
So that was a racing drone.
01:06:46
Speaker
Uh, also have a camera drone.
01:06:48
Speaker
Uh, that's something, yeah, that's my COVID hobby.
01:06:51
Speaker
Uh, it's flying drones around here, having a virtual life through them.
01:06:56
Speaker
So you got the real question is, are you going to go professional though?
01:06:58
Speaker
Cause I know they've got some insane stuff with, with the drone racing and whatnot.
01:07:02
Speaker
Oh yeah.
01:07:03
Speaker
A couple of my coworkers are, uh, do drone racing.
01:07:05
Speaker
They're actually the ones that got me into it.
01:07:07
Speaker
So, uh, it's something I've been screwing around with, but, uh, yeah, they take it way more seriously than I do, but, uh, it's, it is fun.
01:07:14
Speaker
Wow.
01:07:15
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:16
Speaker
It's way cool.
01:07:17
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:18
Speaker
I had no idea that was a thing, so I'll have to check that out.
01:07:21
Speaker
You have never watched the drone races on TV?
01:07:25
Speaker
No, I didn't.
01:07:26
Speaker
I didn't even know this was a thing.
01:07:28
Speaker
I thought this was a fantasy.
01:07:29
Speaker
So it's a thing.
01:07:31
Speaker
It's, it's fun.
01:07:33
Speaker
All right.
01:07:33
Speaker
I recommend it.
01:07:35
Speaker
Yeah, well, we're going to get you some swag out for you, Keith.
01:07:38
Speaker
And I think we'll go from there.
01:07:40
Speaker
And so we really do always appreciate you coming on, chit-chatting with us.
01:07:45
Speaker
And so, yeah.
01:07:47
Speaker
Awesome.
01:07:48
Speaker
Thanks for having me.
Podcast Conclusion and Announcements
01:07:49
Speaker
For sure.
01:07:49
Speaker
I can't remember if you want people to contact you or not.
01:07:53
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
01:07:54
Speaker
Probably a swag I can give out.
01:07:57
Speaker
If you want to contact Keith, how do you get contacted?
01:08:02
Speaker
You don't.
01:08:02
Speaker
That's a beautiful thing.
01:08:04
Speaker
Perfect.
01:08:05
Speaker
Now send a drone.
01:08:06
Speaker
Send a drone.
01:08:08
Speaker
Yes.
01:08:10
Speaker
Send a letter.
01:08:10
Speaker
Perfect.
01:08:13
Speaker
A postcard.
01:08:14
Speaker
Anywho.
01:08:14
Speaker
Yeah.
01:08:16
Speaker
If you want to contact us, you can find us on Facebook at Loser Kid Pinball.
01:08:19
Speaker
We're also on Instagram and Twitch.
01:08:21
Speaker
Or if you want to get a hold of us the old school way, Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com.
01:08:27
Speaker
We are coming up on episode 50.
01:08:28
Speaker
That is next.
01:08:30
Speaker
If you're looking to submit a clip, you got to do it by the 5th, which I want to say is this upcoming Saturday.
01:08:38
Speaker
So we've already got a handful of clips.
01:08:40
Speaker
There are some wonderful people that have dropped their voices and we'll be putting them on the show.
01:08:45
Speaker
And we'd love to hear from you too.
01:08:46
Speaker
So got anything for us, Scott?
01:08:50
Speaker
You know what?
01:08:51
Speaker
Stay safe.
01:08:52
Speaker
Stay safe during the holidays.
01:08:54
Speaker
Support what you can with your local pinball places and pick up a new machine.
01:08:59
Speaker
Pick up a new adventures.
01:09:00
Speaker
Go ahead and put it home and you can just play to your heart's content until the COVID ends up.
01:09:06
Speaker
Oh, oh, one more thing before we go.
01:09:09
Speaker
Ryan Kaz, Mr. Ryan C himself.
01:09:12
Speaker
It was his birthday the other day.
01:09:13
Speaker
So if you can, wish him a happy birthday.
01:09:16
Speaker
And I heard they love sweet dancing moves.
01:09:19
Speaker
And so if you'll just record yourself dancing and send them to him, it would really brighten his day.
01:09:24
Speaker
You can win a twerpy with that.
01:09:26
Speaker
Yes, I would.
01:09:29
Speaker
Best dance moves.
01:09:33
Speaker
Oh, and Keith would know if you want professional advice on winning a Twippy, Keith's the man.
01:09:40
Speaker
So get your dance moves into Ryan so you can get that Twippy for sweet dance moves.
01:09:44
Speaker
I want a Twippy.
01:09:45
Speaker
That's my goal now.
01:09:46
Speaker
Oh, yeah, Twippy.
01:09:48
Speaker
Well, the real question is, are you going for a final round reach around?
01:09:51
Speaker
Oh, my God.
01:09:54
Speaker
That's their new awards.
01:09:56
Speaker
We're family friendly.
01:09:57
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:59
Speaker
Hey, I did not write what the name of the award was.
01:10:04
Speaker
All right.
01:10:04
Speaker
All right.
01:10:07
Speaker
Take it up with Jeff and Martin if you don't like the name of it.
01:10:11
Speaker
Originally, they were called The Roundy.
01:10:12
Speaker
I was fine with The Roundy.
01:10:13
Speaker
All right.
01:10:13
Speaker
All right.
01:10:16
Speaker
We better shut this down before it gets any worse.
01:10:21
Speaker
Thanks again, Keith.
01:10:21
Speaker
All right.
01:10:22
Speaker
No problem.
01:10:32
Speaker
Shut up and sit down.