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Winning Conditions on the Price Writers Podcast Episode 38
18 Plays8 days ago
Everyone wants to win. But winning isn’t just about working harder: it’s about creating the right conditions for success. In this episode, we explore what it takes to ensure your efforts are recognised and your value is seen.
If you’ve ever felt overlooked, underappreciated, or frustrated that your hard work isn’t noticed, this episode is for you. Learn how to set yourself up to achieve your goals and create the environment where your work truly shines.
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
At some point, you should stick more P words in there just for a laugh.
Introduction to Pricewriters Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
but
00:00:14
Speaker
Welcome to the Pricewriters Podcast with Katrin Townsend and me, Jeremy Keating. Join us as we explore and discuss the world insurance-related books, offering our insights, recommendations, and crucially, how to apply it to an insurance pricing role.
Exploring 'Winning Conditions' by Christine Hoffbeck
00:00:29
Speaker
Today, we're talking about Winning Conditions by Christine Hoffbeck. And if you haven't heard of Christine, then where have you been? She is amazing to follow on LinkedIn.
00:00:40
Speaker
She's an actuary and she's a two-time contestant on the US TV series Survivor. And there aren't that many books written by actuaries. So we are super excited to discuss this one today, especially as it's all about winning conditions.
00:00:57
Speaker
And let's be honest, we all like to win, right? So Jeremy, this book is all about winning condition. What does Christine mean by that?
00:01:08
Speaker
And have you ever felt like you've been in winning conditions? Yeah, I think it's really interesting what she means by winning conditions, actually. Christine, as you say, is an actuary, and I think it's quite an actual actuary way looking at the word that she uses. So winning conditions is about things that you can do to make it more likely that you'll be successful.
00:01:30
Speaker
So it's not like a recipe for success, because that would be very difficult. But it's things that you can do, taking your professional life, that make it more likely that the outcomes will be good, that your work will be received, that you'll be successful in the office, that your proposals will be accepted and that you'll do well and do a good job.
00:01:49
Speaker
And I think that's really clever actually. It's quite an actuarial way of looking at the world because you can't control everything, but what you can do is improve your chances of good outcomes. I think myself, times when I've felt winning conditions, it's times when I've been well prepared and I'm talking to an audience that I understand and perhaps I've done the groundwork so I know what I'm doing. I know the situation well.
00:02:13
Speaker
And then I felt really confident enough to give a presentation. It's been accepted. So I definitely relate to what she's talking about in setting these pieces up i I've never kind of had a framework like she gives for actually building those winning conditions.
00:02:28
Speaker
It's certainly something I found myself in the right situations.
Understanding the Concept of Winning Conditions
00:02:33
Speaker
She uses this great metaphor all marbles in a jar. she says winning is like taking a big scoop of marbles out of the jar. And if you are holding a red marble, then you're winning.
00:02:48
Speaker
So many of the activities that we do in a day don't help us win. They're for other people's benefits or the things we feel we have to do or the things we said yes to, but we kind of regret it.
00:03:01
Speaker
And those are white marbles. And she says, we spend all day filling up our jar with these white marbles, which aren't helping us to get a win. And in fact, they're actually filling up our jar. So we have no time to put red marbles in the jar. And red marbles are anything that's potentially going to help you in the future.
00:03:20
Speaker
So she uses the example of networking, having positive interactions with her colleagues, doing your preparation, anything like that puts these red marbles in your jar. And i agree with you, it's so actuarial the way she goes about describing this. You can tell she is just itching to say frequency and severity, but she manages to avoid it, which is probably a good thing for her wider audience.
00:03:47
Speaker
But well, the prizing professionals were 100% recognized this kind of frequency severity approach to winning. The more red marbles you have in your jar, the higher likelihood you're going to pull one out.
00:04:00
Speaker
And she also talks about making some of the red marbles bigger in that you're making particularly positive interactions or it's particularly strong thing that you're doing to win. So she does girt around the topic of frequency severity very, very well.
00:04:17
Speaker
But I i think it's really well written and resonates with me on lots of different levels. I wouldn't really describe it as a business book. I would probably describe it as self-help.
00:04:29
Speaker
And I'm not the biggest fan of self-help books, which is why i was so surprised that this one resonated so hard with me. I find that a lot of self-help books Stop by being quite negative.
00:04:42
Speaker
You should be more productive. You should be better at whatever, whatever it is that they're trying to sell you tell you that their technique works. You should do more. You should be more. You should, you're not enough.
00:04:54
Speaker
I think also they have a tendency to tell you, follow this formula and everything will work out and be successful. it's very X, do this, do that, do that. And you'll end up successful.
00:05:05
Speaker
And just life looked not like that. I mean, I don't want to say like probabilistic rather than deterministic, but I feel like that's exactly the opposite of what Chrissy does in this book. She doesn't put jargon around it. But I really like that she started with her assumptions.
00:05:21
Speaker
Again, very actuarial. She says, I am going to start by assuming that you're working hard, that you are competent and good at your job and that you want to succeed.
00:05:34
Speaker
She starts with that assumption instead of this normal self-help. I'm going to assume that you're not doing these things. You're not doing enough. And so she says, you're doing all the right things.
00:05:45
Speaker
How can we put a framework around you so that actually starts to translate into winning? And I think that is absolutely what so many people in pricing teams need to hear because particularly if if you've been very technical for a long time, you're doing all the right things, but somehow it's not getting traction or was not translating to a promotion. Christine's book gives you clear things to do.
00:06:13
Speaker
But without being like, oh, yeah, you're a whole mess. You're a big problem. You know, it's such a positive, encouraging and just a real inspiring book. I i see that as well. I like that she's clear that you have to do good work. You have to work hard. These are ways in which you can make it so you're more likely to be successful and your work's more likely to be picked up and you're more likely to seen in a good light.
00:06:38
Speaker
ah Ultimately, you do have to work hard and you do have to do good work. It's not going to make up for deficiencies in that way.
Practical Advice for Personal and Team Success
00:06:45
Speaker
What would you say... What piece of advice from the book most resonated with you, Katrin?
00:06:55
Speaker
For me, it's that these small changes to your day are going to make a big difference. She gives the example of talking to someone if you're in a lift with them.
00:07:07
Speaker
And if someone asks you what you do, don't just say, I'm Katrin, I'm an actuary. She says, you use your full name. Then they can find you and email you and catch up with you on LinkedIn or whatever.
00:07:18
Speaker
Don't just say, you're an actuary. Tell them exactly what you do, why that adds value. It's a very, very easy change. Everyone can just change those two sentences that they say.
00:07:30
Speaker
But it is going to make a big difference overall. People are going remember what you do and why you're special kind of actuary or special kind of pricing professional in a field that's kind of crowded.
00:07:43
Speaker
And she just has so many of these very small things that you can do. One of the things that I really liked, and I think that if anyone is a manager or they lead a team can really easily add to their day is calling out good work from within the team and just being very quick to to praise, obviously honestly and authentically, but be really specific about the value that someone in their team added to a project.
00:08:12
Speaker
That's really good for that team member. But what Christine does is she also links that to your success. If you praise your team members, firstly, people will think that your team is very successful, which obviously reflects well on you.
00:08:28
Speaker
Secondly, that team member is more likely to praise you in other conversations. She gives the example that she praised someone for a project and said, yeah, they were absolutely key asset on this. And then but next week someone was saying to this person about the project, oh, I heard you did very good job on that. And the person said, yeah, Christine mentored me really well and she challenged me and she gave me lots to think about. And yeah, she she helped me do the good work.
00:08:54
Speaker
So as a manager, there's also this reciprocity. And thirdly, she says that people want to be in that team where there is open praise and appreciation.
00:09:05
Speaker
People want to be in that team. So even in a small example like that, she's really backed it up with exactly what the value is this. And I think for me as an introvert, it can sometimes be hard to do these things.
00:09:20
Speaker
You don't really want to talk to people. Mm-hmm. I relate to that too. I think the praise one is very good because it's almost like by you giving praise to people, you're making clear that it's an environment where that's an okay thing to do.
00:09:34
Speaker
And then people feel more comfortable doing it for other people and even back to you as well. And it's like an upward cycle and it's a more comfortable environment for people in which people know that they're doing good work and appreciate it.
00:09:45
Speaker
I mean, we're always talking about how everyone wants employee engagement to go up. This is a good way to actually get it to go up.
Tailoring Efforts and Real-life Applications
00:09:52
Speaker
I think for me, the thing I found most useful as a piece of advice is to do with understanding the prior conditions. This isn't her phrasing, but it is what she means.
00:10:02
Speaker
The prior conditions before when you arrive somewhere. So when you ah arrive and give a presentation or a proposal, you're starting a project, take time to find out what the world is like before you do that.
00:10:17
Speaker
And then you can tailor what you do to how people are currently and how they feel. and you're much more likely to be successful. So she is a pick particular example of a ah change project in her workplace, where actually a lot of the underwriters and pricing people were quite happy with the current conditions.
00:10:37
Speaker
And therefore it was very uphill to get this change project through because people didn't really want it. But actually, if they spent the time to understand why people were happy and where they were unhappy, and then targeted the actual areas where people needed the help, they would have had a much more successful project.
00:10:55
Speaker
Generally, it would have been much easier to adopt. So I found that to be quite good. And I certainly think there are times where perhaps I've done something similar. And I think we all relate to new people coming into the team. And they're very enthusiastic, which is great, but they suggest things that perhaps you've tried in the past.
00:11:11
Speaker
And then they get frustrated because you don't want to do the things they're suggesting. But actually, if you both took the time to explain why you don't think it's a good idea and they understood that they were arriving somewhere new and should understand how it was before they got there, then everyone can actually work together much better.
00:11:27
Speaker
thought it was really good advice.
00:11:31
Speaker
She just has such a positive way of speaking in her book. And she gives really relatable examples. Yeah. One of the earliest examples she gives was about her time on Survivor, the TV show. And for people who don't know, Survivor is kind of what it says in the tin.
00:11:49
Speaker
They take a number of contestants, dump them in an island in the Pacific and just leave them to fend for themselves, really, followed around by TV cameras. And there are certain challenges that they can win prizes and food and that kind of stuff. but But pretty much they're just left for like 40 days on desert islands.
00:12:08
Speaker
It sounds like my idea of hell. Please never put me forward for Survivor. But she uses an example from her time on Survivor and it was one of the only examples. And I was thinking kening like, oh, that's not very relatable. It's definitely not something I'm ever going to do. i mean, Duke of Edinburgh was hard enough, right?
00:12:29
Speaker
And I was a bit worried. But then she follows that up with so many really good, relatable examples about her time working in an office at big corporations.
00:12:41
Speaker
And so many of them, i was like, yeah, I know exactly what mean. Oh, Yeah, so true, you know, and and just it was so remember you've got this really amazing mix of absolutely relatable.
00:12:53
Speaker
And then you just periodically reminded that, wow, she like she's done something super amazing. Survivor is really hard to get onto. It's one of the top TV shows in America. Like, wow, it's this amazing blend of things that you you're going to encounter absolutely. And then this so extreme amplified version of the same conditions. you know its it's It's a really interesting b blend.
00:13:20
Speaker
And actually, I found it really inspiring because I do find sometimes with business books or nonfiction like this is that it kind of only applies to work. mad enough And that's fine. We spend a lot of time at work and always it's important to succeed and win at work.
00:13:36
Speaker
But what I really like about this book is that she purposely gives you examples of non-work situations, whether it is survivor but TV shows or more likely your community programs, your church, your family and friends, people you meet in the school run.
00:13:56
Speaker
She gives examples of the non-work things and saying you can still thrive and you can still win in those situations as well. I think that's really true, actually. And I thought ah really good example she used from the Survivor TV show that you can relate to, but she told it in such an interesting way, is about all of the crew and everyone that you don't see in the actual broadcast show She's like, so you see us, the contestants,
00:14:23
Speaker
But actually, there's a camera crew there. There's people that are building the sets for the challenges. There's actually a lot of safety people making sure that they remain fit and healthy. When they have to do swimming challenges, she's like, there's lifeguards everywhere.
00:14:37
Speaker
So there's all these other people who she says you'd never see on TV. And how many people are there around your work, your office, in your life who are making similar roles, who actually, if they weren't there, you wouldn't be able to do the work that you do and you wouldn't be able to win.
00:14:53
Speaker
you wouldn't be able to have those winning conditions without all those people. ah thought it was very clever, actually. And I think like you, it was like a situation I would never be in, but she used it as a really good example of how there are people like that in my own life.
00:15:08
Speaker
boom So, Catrin, what you think about the format of the book? I liked it. The chapters were quite short. I really liked how they got to the point quite clearly. She structures the book in chapters, but then also within three parts.
00:15:22
Speaker
And in each part, she focuses on a different area of conditions, I suppose. So in one part, she's talking more about how are you interact with people. in another part, she's talking more about you internally. And I think that's a really clever way to structure book.
00:15:37
Speaker
I listened to on audio. And honestly, it was so... optimistic and sunny to listen to. i actually felt really uplifted by it. And in fact, that final chapter, she's, I don't want to give spoilers anything, but she's talking about how, yeah, you are enough and often you deserve to win. And I know you're working hard and actually you just need to do this this this last almost cherry on the top thing to create these winning conditions around you and then you're going to succeed. I actually thought it was self-lifting and I definitely, like I've actually bookmarked it on my Audible so I can go back and listen to that Every time i have a bad day, I'm going to go back to listen to that chapter because I've found it really uplifting.
00:16:20
Speaker
I found it uplifting as well. And I really liked the structure. It's structured in a way that I particularly like business books to be, which is that it's a clear set of things to achieve. And each chapter is pretty much titled what that thing is. So it's nice and clear to me what the book is about.
00:16:38
Speaker
And when she does explain things to do and actions to take, it's often followed by an anecdote. And I really like that. So it's a way of bringing that to life as something that's happened in her own life. And this is why she's saying to try this particular thing.
Communicating Technical Expertise Effectively
00:16:52
Speaker
And you alluded to the elevator earlier. She tells this anecdote about literally being in a lift. And somebody introduces themselves and then she introduces herself back. But she just says her first name and that she's an actuary. And he turns out to be the CFO. So she clearly missed this opportunity to really land who she is and why she's working hard and build her own profile.
00:17:15
Speaker
i just thought i was really good, relatable story. And I like that it's fairly short anecdote, but really brought to life the point that she was trying to make. Coming off of the back of that one, she told a very good story about somebody emailing her and saying, oh, do you mind telling me about what an actuary does?
00:17:32
Speaker
And she was like, oh, great. It's someone who wants to learn about actuarial science. But as it turned out, the person's dad was an actuary. And they every time they'd ask their dad what they did, he been unable to explain it in a way that they understood.
00:17:47
Speaker
so he was hoping that Christine would be able to explain it. So I think that's a great story and one that I think is very relatable as actuaries and about our sort of our communication abilities, particularly about what we do ourselves.
00:18:02
Speaker
As actuaries, we think of ourselves as being really technical people and in lots of ways we are. But Christine uses the example of when her cable breaks and someone has to come out to fix it. Technician says, oh, can you plug in the...
00:18:17
Speaker
HL2 cable into the, some kind of box. And she's thinking, I don't know which cable that is. I don't know which box it is. Why can't he just explain it by saying, plug the yellow cable into the box that has three red lights on it.
00:18:34
Speaker
Yeah. And I relate to that so much because I feel exactly the same. We had to get our boiler service recently and he was clearly very knowledgeable, but I was no more knowledgeable after talking to him about what exactly was wrong with our boiler.
00:18:52
Speaker
This kind of thing, it like fills me with dread, even though... I would call myself very technical. It was a really good reminder ah how, yes, we're technical, but we're all technical in our own field.
00:19:03
Speaker
And she uses the same example with her hairdresser. Her hairdresser said she wanted a two-tone or something, and I don't really know what that it is. And we all have this kind of industry jargon that we just forget that other people don't know.
00:19:17
Speaker
The result of not moderating for that is that people feel stupid. People feel frustrated. People can't give you five-star reviews. And if the hairdresser asked me if I want that, I'm going to say no, because...
00:19:31
Speaker
I have no idea. They've missed out on a sale and I've missed out on something that might be good for my hair. I have no idea what it is, by the way. Is it di like dyeing your hair in a certain way? I don't really know. I actually don't know. We don't like admitting weakness, do we? We don't like saying, I don't really know what that is.
00:19:47
Speaker
Because we worry that then they're going to explain and the explanation is going to be... more complicated or just as complicated. Please write in the comments if you know what this thing is and what it might do for my hair.
00:20:00
Speaker
But this is why people have favorite hairdressers, isn't it? That, you know, you have one hairdresser who you never want to leave because you know that they explain things well and they always do a good job. but And yeah Christine would frame this as that's a winning condition for you because you feel safe with them as a customer, um but also for them because they've basically got a client for life.
00:20:22
Speaker
When I lived in France, I got my haircut when I came. It wasn't, I didn't specifically come back to the UK for it, but when I was passing through on the way, i'd get my hair cut. I actually never got my hair cut in France.
00:20:37
Speaker
but but but And they weren't going to ask me in French if I want the keratin hair scrub thing. So yeah. Who knows? It's terrifying. That's even just your hair, right?
00:20:49
Speaker
ah yeah How much more people think that what we do is overwhelming and complicated? That's why people don't follow up with a question. When you say, I'm Captain Nyman Actry, that's why there's dead silence in the room. Yeah.
00:21:05
Speaker
So being able to make that more relatable, yeah I'm... I'm the person who prices your car insurance. I mean, maybe you don't leave with that. You don't get me mixed feelings about that.
00:21:15
Speaker
But you know, something like that, saying something that you're excited about that kind of invites some questions that doesn't just put a total kibosh on the conversation. It's a really good tip. And no matter where you are in your career, you probably know that, but you've also probably forgotten it.
00:21:35
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's very true. Really true. All right, Jeremy, what you ask him in this
Book Recommendations and Advocacy for Self-promotion
00:21:40
Speaker
book? And who but do you think would most benefit from it? I would recommend this book. I i thought it was very good.
00:21:47
Speaker
There was a lot that people can take away from it. And like you said, it's uplifting. So even if you read through it and you're like, oh, there's a lot of these I kind of already know how to do, but it's useful to see it as a list.
00:21:58
Speaker
Even then, I came away from it having enjoyed the book. That's often quite a big win when it comes to reading, actually. So I would recommend it. I'd say it's most beneficial for people that are early in their careers,
00:22:10
Speaker
and also people that are maybe moving into management for the first time. And I think these are often two quite big transitions for people. And I think it is very useful to have a good book like this to explain it through.
00:22:23
Speaker
I think also if you have been feeling like you're a bit stuck maybe be and although you're producing good work it doesn't seem to be landing you don't feel like you're having the impact that you want to if you feel like you are not the popular kid I suppose then it will give you ways of improving your condition so that you can achieve the things that you want to Christine actually gives her a couple of really nice examples. So she ran for a role when she was at high school in an election and she didn't win despite feeling she was the better candidate.
00:22:59
Speaker
And she's quite honest about the fact she then ran for a role in the student body when she was at college, so university, and she did win the election, but she says she didn't feel she was the better candidate. But what she did was use these tips, these skills to improve her conditions to win.
00:23:17
Speaker
I found that really interesting. So if you do feel like you're not winning when you ought to be, think this is a great book to get and actually understand what you should be doing to improve your likelihood of positive outcomes.
00:23:33
Speaker
I wish someone had told me years before I learned this that actually, yeah okay, work hard, but your work doesn't speak for itself. You have to speak for your work.
00:23:44
Speaker
I wish someone had told me that, particularly when, like you say, I mean, I was i was not the popular kid at school. maybe Maybe a lot of actuaries and pricing professionals resonate with that. I i just couldn't seem to get that traction, like you say, those winning conditions for things.
00:24:03
Speaker
for a long time I kind of expected that if you do the best work then you'll win and and
00:24:10
Speaker
that's not always the case. She puts it really clearly on exactly why that is. And honestly, the short answer is that people can only choose you or vote for you or help you win if they know about it.
00:24:24
Speaker
In fact, one of the things that she suggests, I've actually already done today, she suggests that if you have to say no for things because you're too busy but you have other projects on on that you really need to do. So she was saying that when she was writing her book,
00:24:38
Speaker
So when asked her if she could make a course for them, training course, and she said, very honestly, would really love to help you with this, but I can't because I'm looking for a literary agent for my book.
00:24:50
Speaker
So um I'm going to have to pass, but yeah know maybe in future. But because she'd been really honest and very specific about exactly why she was saying no, yeah actually allowed the other person to help her with that. They said, actually, I know and a literary agent. Yeah.
00:25:05
Speaker
I'll put you in touch. Not only did she get her aged, but also she then had the time to help this person with this course. And I know at work that I've had that. Someone said, can you catch up with the deployment team on so-and-so? And so I was like, I really can't this week. I've got a modeling deadline and I am just, I'm working flat out.
00:25:24
Speaker
Now, if you say that, someone can say, oh well, let me help you or let me move resource or, well, I can't really help you with that, but what I can do is run and get your coffee or whatever it is, you know, just anything that that helps you and it can be mutually beneficial.
00:25:42
Speaker
We both think it's a great book. We've got people that we would recommend it for, but I think a lot of people would enjoy it as a book
Preview of Next Episode: Christmas Bestsellers
00:25:48
Speaker
to read. i think you'll come away feeling uplifted. So what are we reading next time?
00:25:54
Speaker
Next time, we're doing something a little bit different. With the holidays coming up, we'll be discussing the books that the bookstores think are going to be bestsellers this Christmas. Now, I'm always so nervous about these lists because what usually happens is that you end up with three copies of Richard Osmond on Christmas Day. oh instead of just talking about the bestsellers, we'll be suggesting some more unusual alternatives to those books.
00:26:25
Speaker
And we'll be reflecting on our favourite gifted books as well. We know pricing professionals are super busy, so we're here to make your life that little bit easier. Awesome. I am totally looking forward to it. So thanks for joining us and we will hope to see you next time.
00:26:44
Speaker
PriceWriters transforms pricing professionals into the most respected leaders in insurance. Find out more about our new PriceWriterPriate platform by visiting pricewriters.com.