Transcript
Leo Ernewein: Okay, no intro music today. Welcome back to the Leo and Lando Show. i'm your host, Leo Ernewein, and as always, I'm here with Landon Lando-Semenach. We have a very special episode for you today because we're actually in the same room for the first time ever.
Leo Ernewein: It's great to finally see you after such a long time here, land Landon. We're broadcasting live on location at Lando and Irv's house right here in Banff, Alberta. Landon, how are you guys doing today? We're good.
Leo Ernewein: Welcome to our home. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for having me over. Welcome to our home. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me over your place, guys. I understand you just visiting Ryderville over the weekend. How was the trip out to the prairies?
Leo Ernewein: Well, it was long. It was just me by myself, but I went to go visit some cousins. And yeah, it was fun. You know, got to relax and played some golf and went swimming. And yeah, just like, I don't know, with with cousins. But yeah, for those who have ever driven to Saskatchewan from our area, it's a long drive.
Leo Ernewein: how How many hours? Eight hours. Eight and a half. Were you in Regina? Yes. Cool. yeah right yeah Yeah. Home of the Saskatchewan Rough Riders. Yeah, home of the Rough Riders. Well, we have a very very special guest joining us live in the living room today. He's a legendary local figure here in Banff, longtime educator as well in the Bow Valley and a highly respected veteran sports official. Landon, please do the honors and introduce him to our listeners for us. Will do, man. Well, we have my dad, Semenuk, on the show with us. He is here to talk about refereeing and a few other things that we're going to talk about.
Leo Ernewein: He's one of the main reasons why I became a ref in the first place. I'm am so excited to chat about his career. Dad, to kick things off, tell everyone a little bit about yourself and your history with Ophishii.
Leo Ernewein: All right. good Good evening there, listeners. Well, I've taught school here in Bamp for 27 years. I started my teaching career up in the Peace River area. I taught six years in a little community of about 65 people called Eaglesham, Alberta.
Leo Ernewein: and then we eventually moved to Banff. My officiating career usually surrounds four things. we Obviously, hockey was the the mainstay. Alana and I refed probably 25 years of hockey. We've done football.
Leo Ernewein: I was a regional referee in volleyball, so I did some university. highlighted my volleyball career as got to umpire an Olympic game with the USA and canada up in grand fer it was pretty exciting. That was fun. And we now we're kind of more situated reffing basketball in the valley. So that's kind of a rough rundown of both the things.
Leo Ernewein: Right on. I just got to ask the question that the question that all our listeners probably wanted to know, did we win that game versus the United States, Canada, US? That was about 25 years ago. So, and I think Canada beat them 4-1. Yeah. you remember I remember. It was at Grand Prairie College, and and it was it was unreal volleyball games, right? Yeah. i bet I think there was probably, talent I'm just trying to think too, probably 1,000 people in the and the Grand Prairie Auditorium. which they Hacked. Hacked, right? And back in the day when it wasn't Rally Point.
Leo Ernewein: Yeah, it was straight volleyball. Yeah, so it was like. A five-hour match. Yeah. I didn't realize they didn't. Yes. Rally point one is has only been within the last 20 years, maybe? when i Yeah. When I played, you refereed our games and stuff like yeah that. It was rally. Yeah. So, yeah. That's right, too.
Leo Ernewein: A lot of the games were 27, 25. You know, that yeah. Back and forth. So, yeah yeah. It was fun. Fantastic entertainment to watch. So, very back and forth. Very on the toes. Right on. It's great to have you here. Before we kind of get into your refereeing days, though, we've got to dive into some baseball. because It's kind of been a bit of a tumultuous season for the Blue Jays, right? As of right now, they sit sixth or as of August 6th. Sorry, they're sitting disappointing 54 and 61 record, find themselves dead last fifth place in the AL East.
Leo Ernewein: And they kind of shook things up completely at the deadline. Trading away Kevin Gosman of the Chicago Cubs, outfielder Dalton Varshow to the Houston Astros and shipped off Jeff Hoffman to the Minnesota Twins. They also packaged AA outfielder Eddie Michelletti Jr. and rookie ball pitcher Angel Rivero and the number two prospect Arjun Namala to land an established major league pitcher who really like out of the Anaheim Angels or LA Angels. says His name is Jose Soriano.
Leo Ernewein: But this kind of leaves Jojo Parker as the completely uncontested top prospect. also plays top shoot shortstop, but top prospect in their system now that they've moved on from Namala. On top of that, they still did kind of bring in a hole of minor league minor leaguers headlined by infielder Ty Southinsien, Southinsien, sorry, outfielder Brett Bateman and lefthander left-handed pitcher Jason Hill.
Leo Ernewein: Lando, though, with the recent sales at the deadline while still acquiring some major league talent, what do you think the direction is for the franchise going for the rest of this year? i think I think for the rest of the year, I think it's just, can we...
Leo Ernewein: Can they rebuild and turn their horrible season, I guess, into a better season next year? i think So it's like asset stripping. Yeah, it's asset stripping. And and you know and in the guys that they traded, i don't think were necessary, other than maybe Hoffman, I don't think the other two were all like really them you know really cause them to be so bad. I just, I think, I think they looked at money. They looked this pretty bad. Yeah. But he was also a really good clubhouse guy. A lot of people say how he held the clubhouse together, how he's a big blue guy. And yeah, a lot of people also said, it's kind of ironic how the most quiet guy on the field, he'll be a glue guy. i think duck Because it was very so funny. yeah Yeah. But anyways, that, that's just kind of where I was at. I, you know, I wasn't surprised about Hoffman getting traded.
Leo Ernewein: I really wasn't. I was surprised about Gaussman. I thought he would be a mainstay. Did you see he moved his start against the Blue Jays' backs so that he wouldn't have to pitch against them? Like his first start for, like what is it, the Twins is where he went? No, Chicago Cubs. Chicago, yeah, that's what it was, yeah. yeah He moved his first start so that he wouldn't have to pitch against the Jays. Yeah. Because he said that would be pretty tough. And I feel like hearing that...
Leo Ernewein: comparing that Man, we lost the jump. But we did sometimes you have to, as you mentioned, it's a business and you have to move forward with those assets. Well, and and and and if they want to do anything in this offseason to improve themselves for next year, I think this is a a start. But I also think that unfortunately, these three players I got shipped off and a number of others,
Leo Ernewein: They were kind of like i would call the the scapegoats of what is actually the problem with the Toronto Blue Jays because there's way more than just these three. You don't think that Vlad is getting quite a bit of criticism right now too and Springer and yeah stuff like that? feel like they are too. Well deserved. And well deserved. Everybody's just having an off year and i and I think some of that is is I think partly what's going on with Toronto is and I know Doug you're probably going weigh in too that he's I think they're just because of being just coming off a World Series and losing the way they did, i think it's so hard to get yourself going and get back there. And I think in a longer offseason, and I think i think they're gonna i think they'll they'll be close maybe close to what they were maybe last year. i don't think i don't think World Series is in their future for a while. But I think if they can really they can rebuild a little bit and retool, I think they can, you know, maybe in a year or two, I think they'll be back. I think Irv can add on this too. But think it goes to show the tightness
Leo Ernewein: competitive balance in baseball that how well things were clicking last year to how well things aren't clicking this year and the the difference in what we're seeing on the field. What do you think? I think they're coming back. You think so, eh? That's true. A lot of things can change. Four games aren't hard isn't hard to pick up when you go on a roll. so Trade-wise, I think Osman was a loss, but I think they're going sign him in the offseason anyways. Get him back. I think he's coming back to Toronto because I think he loves the place.
Leo Ernewein: I think the biggest loss was Varsho. I think he was – I think he's kind of a heart and soul player. so i Yeah. I think trading him away was – I'm not sure about it. shipping Hoffman off is now in Minnesota. He's going to take Minnesota out of the out of the playoff run.
Leo Ernewein: i know I have no faith in his pitching. and right down is done i and And I'm not a baseball guy. I'm not a big baseball guy. only watch World Series basically. right so right But i I just wasn't impressed with him. but But yeah, so I think they're coming back. I think we're out.
Leo Ernewein: But that just shows you that just shows you how bad this division is, right? Boston's starting to make a churn. Boston went on their 16-game run. Then they completely cooled off. toronto or New York went on a heater at the start. yeah They cooled off.
Leo Ernewein: Tampa Bay went on a heater. They cooled off. And the Orioles kind of creeping up, too. They kind of had a... I don't know. This division is just bizarre. I think it's interesting to read in comments. I was listening to his comments when he was in Chicago.
Leo Ernewein: you know, he said like this different clubhouse here, they're all about baseball. So what does that say the Blue Jays? Are the Blue Jays all about baseball? Yeah. If if if here they're all about baseball, obviously that's implying that they're all about something else up there. she Says something about what where the clubhouse is, right? So it's hard to say, you know, that you're not there, you don't see it, but I was interested in his comments month about when he was there, when he was, yeah, you know, it's just They're all about baseball here, right? so Interesting. won We'll have to see how that turns out for Gosman and the Cubs, right? so
Leo Ernewein: I do like the the Jose Soriano from the Angels. I'm a big believer in his game. I like that too. Oh, yeah. And I think it was time to move off Arjun Namaala. He was previously, I think, one of their top rated top- rated prospects. And when they I think they got Jojo Parker out of Mississippi or Mississippi State or something like that, either last year's draft or two years draft. And he's just really improved and like passed Namoah in that shortstop kind of depth chart position.
Leo Ernewein: So to me, it seems like why not clear, not clear the space, but sort of firmly reaffirm that Jojo Parker is going to be your shortstop of the future and get, and get something back for Nomella. Yeah. All those values. At least. I think that was the biggest thing, right? I think the biggest moves on the blue Jays this round was, I think they immensely improved their minor league system. Like I, got you know, Again, I'm not a baseball guy and I don't really do a lot of reading about baseball, but what I've read is that they vastly improved their prospect level and they didn't have a whole big prospect level to begin with. Yes, I think they have gutted that in recent years. think you have to have depth in their minors to win in their majors. I think they're totally right. And guys like Ty Sothecene, I think is how you say it. I had to look it up before i did this. But to he's from what I've been reading up on him, he's quite a minor league contact hitter, like very good coach.
Leo Ernewein: eye for the ball and stuff like that, like disappointment yeah and whatnot. But we'll keep it locked on baseball because you were talking about how like the division's kind of been a mess this year.
Leo Ernewein: And I think a lot of maybe... People's wind, like the the wind in their sails been taken out, especially after this trade deadline where we saw Scoob will go to the Dodgers. Yeah. Right. Derek Scoob will go to the Dodgers. They pulled off the massive blockbuster two times Cy Young winner from the Detroit Tigers.
Leo Ernewein: And it kind of, for me, the hardest part to believe is what the Tigers got back. And it almost looks like a fleece because like I've heard of Zaire Hope, he's 25th on MLB's top 100 prospect list.
Leo Ernewein: But the other guy they got back as a 28 year old starting pitcher who hasn't made much of an impact in the majors. And Brady Smith, who just looks like an organizational flyer, like he's a minor league player. And from what I've heard, the other offers weren't much better.
Leo Ernewein: Although I did think the Milwaukee Brewers offered Jet Williams and a few other top 100 prospects, but a school ball wasn't going to, he's a free agent. There's a team that I, again, I'm not a baseball guy, but yeah there's a team that Milwaukee who's, I think they're, they're running second ended the in the whole national league or in the, uh, yeah. Right. And yet, how does it, how I think, you know, how does the Dodgers do this?
Leo Ernewein: How do they get away with and that? And and then then you know deferring salary. and It'll be a matter of time before they find out that them in school agreed to a six-year whatever deal. right like I mean, that's an unbelievable baseball team though. Yeah, I can't get mad at them because they're doing all the right things. The rules allow them to.
Leo Ernewein: The problem is the other owners, the 29 other owners are collectively throwing up their hands going, and we can't compete with this. yeah And it's like, Well, come on, guys. Like, what's the point then? Is it a one-team leap? And it's clearly not because we saw in in the playoffs last year that it was, you know, it matters what you go out put on the field. At at the end of the day, paper is just paper. Non-paper is just, yeah. it's Paper isn't production is what I've heard somebody say.
Leo Ernewein: i think I think a lot of it is with the Dodgers is that, yes, they have money. But you know what, though? The the manager and the owner and their general manager, they know what they're doing. Yeah, they do. they They know what they're doing. They know what they want. they they go out Not only do they spend, but they go out and… They buff up their farm system to make trades like this. Exactly. they have them yeah they they I think they have the best farm system in baseball. Oh, for sure. and And if teams are going to want to try to compete against Dodgers… they got to figure out how they out what they're doing what they're doing right. And i the only team that I think in that division that the Dodgers play in that can really, really give them a good run is the Padres, but they've kind of fallen off the map. After their owner passed away, they yeah their owner kind of had like a mad spending spree where he wanted to see a World Series before he passed away.
Leo Ernewein: Yeah. And unfortunately it didn't happen. and I think for a while there, they were keeping up with the spending, but it looks like it's kind of tailed off a little bit. I'm worried about this potential lockout next season and what this trade potentially means for it. Like the luxury tax and balances getting kind of out of hand. Yeah. You feel so label wars inevitable. no you know I don't think the Dodgers care about the luxury tax. No, they don't. ye They'll pay the hundred million in fines or whatever. And,
Leo Ernewein: of the best basketball players on our team. But what does it mean for teams like Milwaukee? I know. It it hurts to see, right? Well, it' i was I was just thinking about, sorry to interrupt you, but I was just just thinking about, you know, that how how many teams guys have really struggled over within the last 15 years? I mean, I've thought of the St. Louis Cardinals. Who used to be, like, they're a historic franchise in baseball. I mean, we just touched on the Milwaukee Brewers. Pittsburgh Pirates have been terrible for a long time, and they have one of the best farm systems in the league right now with Connor Griffin now making the majors and schemes out there for a few years. And, you know, we're as fans of major league baseball, we're almost counting down the years before those guys leave to a major market.
Leo Ernewein: Yeah. It's, it's inevitable. Yeah. Right. And, then and the NBA had that problem and they've been trying to fix it. And I don't know how well that's done either. No, neither. I mean, and then the other team I was thinking about was the Miami Marlins. I mean, they, they haven't, I feel like they're sitting on a gold mine though. They are.
Leo Ernewein: But they've they've done they've done that they haven't done anything for a long time. yeah yeah i Again, Bruce, baseball, who was on said that baseball, you know you can be a great team last year on a lousy team this year. yeah I mean, look look at Tampa Bay.
Leo Ernewein: How... Same team as the last three years, basically. Yeah. And now they're almost running away with the American East. Yeah. Yeah. How does that happen? It's chemistry, cohesiveness, and familiar. You're only for three years the same team, and all of a sudden you're the superstar. Baseball is such a game of, you want to say luck almost, right? It is almost. It's luck combination with football.
Leo Ernewein: the ability to be ready. yeah Like when you're ready and then and then then you get lucky. yeah and Sometimes you're ready. When I talk about a team that has a farm system, i and talent they've always been able to find gems in the roof. fine players in Oregon. I like the ti like the way that that organization just run as well. I like their scouting, like as Irv mentioned. they they they know I like the Tampa Bay Rays. I'm a big fan of them. Me too. The only thing I didn't like about the Rays, and i I kind of like, as I
Leo Ernewein: got older was the guy when the Jays would go down to play the Rays, they had this guy in the crowd and he was like the Tampa Bay... Oh, remember. What was his name? And wore like wrestling mask or something like that and he would just heckle the Jays all the time. You could hear him on TV. Yeah, it was absolutely hilarious. I forget his name, but the Tampa Bay Rays heckler or something like that. but I should say I didn't like it because it definitely made me chuckle. I'm sure it didn't make the product. It's making us chuckle. Exactly, right? Baseball's a funny thing. It is, yeah.
Leo Ernewein: I mean, again, yeah want to go back to the Blue Jays, know, the offseason. when they signed all those pictures that all finally they got pitching staff and now their pitch staffs lower nerds yeah they all got hurt before the start of the year and they had to sign even more yeah and they've never rebounded it from it no and it's just all other than is it how is it cease is that how you say it yeah dylan yeah i mean he's you know he's the guy that's kind of stepped up for them that's the only workhorse available or so far he's been the best signing all the rest of them have just been heard or just haven't panned out. but it's It's tough to see because it's like, I almost thought they overcommitted on pitching when I first saw the signings and I was like, oh, I learned some guys won't be back until midway through.
Leo Ernewein: And then you learn that guys Jose Soriano is done for the year. And then you're like, oh, and then they go and acquire another starting pitcher at the deadline just to probably get through the year. I'm glad they kept My favorite player on the team is Mad Max. I love that. Yeah. Mad Max is a bonafide Hall of Famers. He has a character. I like the big Ernie Clement guy. I like his utility. And he had a phenomenal World Series. Who's the guy that got his elbow surgery?
Leo Ernewein: He played outfield. Oh, yeah. Oh, not, just no, not Springer. Who's the? That's my three feet up because of the Blue Jays. Yeah, he's the guy that had that elbow injury. Now I'm drawing a blank now too. I can see him. Is he? He's the. Addison Barger. Addison Barger. Yeah. i can't believe Addison Barger. Yeah. we all, we all drew a blank. Yeah. All three of those guys are like, that's the guy. Yeah. Addison Barger's definitely, I think a fan favorite as well. he was a huge loss to them. I think. Yeah.
Leo Ernewein: he's He's a, he's a, he's a character guy in the room and I think he's a character guy in the field. But, But Ernie is... Ernie, I really like watching him. a big fan of Ernie, too. And I think his... Yeah. I just hope he stays in Toronto for a long time because I feel like his stock might have increased what they're willing to I can't believe the Athletics gave him up for nothing, too. Yeah, they did, didn't they? yeah there's What are you guys watching? Well, they've given up a lot of players. Athletics have...
Leo Ernewein: Yeah, they have prospect or not prospect player retainment issues. Yeah. Well, when they go to Las Vegas, then they could be sitting on another gold mine as well. But that's the other thing is that Vegas now, I feel like,
Leo Ernewein: is also kind of, they're trying to attract all these sports teams and then they're, I feel like they're overstepping themselves a little bit too. Like they're biting off more than they can chew. I don't know if all these kids can be real. Yeah, Vegas isn't that big of a city. Yeah. And now there's a lot of major sports teams. Exactly. I saw baseball is now going to compete with football. Yeah. football is going to compete with hockey. Yeah. And they're talking about trying to get a basketball team. Yeah, exactly. And I think the basketball teams there is inevitable. I think Sacramento Kings. When they've got it, they also got a PWHL team. Yeah, they're big in the straw. Yeah.
Leo Ernewein: The team in Vegas is their soccer team. Yeah. i I'm calling it now. Sacramento Kings move into Vegas five years or under. yeah And they're probably going to keep the name. yeah made you I mean, it's it's close to the LA Kings, but so is Sacramento. It's just nobody really cared about Sacramento Kings.
Leo Ernewein: Kind of became an afterthought. We'll move over to hockey here, though. NHL offseason kind of giving us a homecoming thing to talk about. Franchise legend Patrick Kane officially signed a two-year, $16 million dollars contract to return to the Chicago Blackhawks.
Leo Ernewein: Showtime is back where he won three Stanley Cups, and he's going to be a part of the roster with Conor Bedard. Landon, how massive of an impact you think Kane's veteran and presence will have on Chicago's young core this upcoming season? Huge. yeah He's going to huge for them. and i Positive. Very big time, yeah and he's he's the i mean Yes, he's a lot older than he used to be when he won the three Stanley Cups, but he brings scoring. He brings veteran presence. And I think it's somebody that I think will take a lot of pressure off Conor Bedard.
Leo Ernewein: and i Yeah, I agree on that. And I think connor bardard is i mean he had a good Conor had a good year. I'm not saying that he didn't. But I think they were missing that missing piece that could could help them be competitive and that extra scoring drop that they needed. And I think they got it in Patrick Kane. And I like Patrick Kane.
Leo Ernewein: I mean, the goals he scored is just phenomenal. I mean, even when he was with Detroit. But I just, I think, I think that was the he's the missing ingredient thing that I think Conor Bedard needs on the team to, they'll be a lot more competitive. Now, will they challenge for a playoff spot remains to be seen. But, I mean, they they certainly had much more positive strides last year, there were this past season, than good than they've had then they've had and all the repo. And I think Patrick Kane is a big part of that big stepping stone.
Leo Ernewein: What about you, or do you, are you sold on Kane? Are you as sold on Kane? Biggest loss in Detroit. I'm a Red Wing fan. Biggest loss in, in, in, in Detroit. And let him you know and and he was going to go anyway. He was going to go in Detroit. He was going back to Chicago regardless. Right.
Leo Ernewein: And I think he's going to be the captain in, in Chicago. I heard kind of a rumor, Bill, that the reason why he didn't sign there for the longest time was that they weren't sure they're going to make him captain. I think that there's some underlying agreement that he's going to be the captain of the team.
Leo Ernewein: But I think Detroit's biggest loss. and I could see that. che Chicago's biggest gain. Yeah. Now, because we didn't have you on the last couple episodes, because it was just Landon and I, and we were talking about like the Eisman plan, kind of not panning out and am him moving positions, as well as like Dylan Larkin, kind of Sega. in detroit what is What is your kind of opinion on the summer that the Red Wings have had. I'm a big fan of of the ex-GM, but I think he needed to move on after 10 years of basically doing nothing. Stagnant. Yeah. Iserman is who he is. Like, I mean, he's Mr. Detroit, right? I mean, that's what he Always will be the captain. Yeah. yeah So, I mean, he it's funny that the colleague gets fired from the
Leo Ernewein: from the job, but he still moves it up in the organization. Yeah, exactly. He still gets a pay raise probably too. yeah but Yeah. You know, I mean, they needed the change. They needed a new direction and we'll see what happens there. I just, I know we've talked about this lot on our episodes there, Dad, but I think the biggest, I don't, I think he was, the Eisenman was held in an impossible hand.
Leo Ernewein: Coming into it just an absolute mess. And he was held to a really high standard. Exactly. Like, as you mentioned, he got gifted Stamkos and then Hedman. And with the drafts that he had at Detroit, he didn't get as high of picks and he had a bit more yeah tougher choices to make. He did. And and and i think I think he overpaid...
Leo Ernewein: on a lot of players too like i think david perron was a flop i think he made some brutal moves and i there was a and i don't i think alex de brinkett was an okay signing but i i but i but i He's going back to Chicago. I loved to bring it Chicago.
Leo Ernewein: i They just – they made – and then, you know, they they didn't really fix their goaltending until recently. And it's just – I don't know. they I guess one of the – I guess the thing for Detroit that I think has been hurting them is – It was really... They did 22 years of excellence.
Leo Ernewein: And it's taking... It set a bar pretty They set a bar pretty high. And I don't think that their best days are behind them because I think there's lots of good days ahead of them. But I think they've got to get past this...
Leo Ernewein: Well, look what we did for 22 years straight. But, I mean, you've got to look at it what Detroit did back then, too. They were, i mean, Dad, you would know this, in the 80s, late 80s, Detroit and early 90s, the Red Wings were horrendous until all of a sudden they got just managed to get...
Leo Ernewein: guys like Iserman and then they picked up Dominic Hasek too well that was later on yeah i guess they had like Chris Osgood or they had the Chris Osgood and then they brought in Mike Vernon and they and then they dropped Nick Lindstrom and then just all of a sudden it just it just went up and up and then they had Pavel they picked up Chris Chelios Chris Chelios he dropped I think Iserman got lucky in Tampa yeah yeah yeah you know drafts are drafts but you have to get lucky in the drafts I mean, how often do we see a Kucherov at, what was he, 52nd something like that, be like one of the best players in the league? And Kucherov reminds me so much of Pavel Datsouk.
Leo Ernewein: Pavel Datsouk was what, fourth, third, fourth? Yeah, he was a third or fourth round. And they managed to get him, and he was one of the Detroit's best-centered. Was Datsouk, though, at the time, was his more of like a commitment, like an immigration issue to come to Canada? Because I think he was Russian, right? Yeah, he is Russian. Yeah.
Leo Ernewein: I can't remember. Because I know at the time, there were players were falling in the draft because they weren't sure if they were going to be able to come over. it and Yeah, i don' that was that was a long time ago. That was. We and I were kids, man. We were kids. And then as I got older, like, I i loved Alex McGill. He had no idea about his story to get to the NHL. I got older, i was like, blew my mind. It'll be interesting to see what yeah and and all the where is going to fit into the pitch or not. Right? Yeah. Because I i mean...
Leo Ernewein: All the news I always read about the Red Wings is as him and Eisenman just didn't get along. That's what I'm hearing. Now that Eisenman's not there anymore, is he going to stay? That might have been part of his ultimatum because didn't he request a trade and was kind of like going to come back?
Leo Ernewein: He never said he was going to come back, but they just never traded or anything like that. Well, he's got a... No trade clause. No trade clause. Yeah. And I think he's there. for his Yeah. He's got like five more years. something because yeah you right so like what I mean, honestly, why would you trade him? Yeah. You know yeah you have no leverage. you like and you know but Nobody forced you to put your, ink your, your, on this contract. Yeah. yeah Yeah. So anyways,
Leo Ernewein: I do. Yeah, go ahead. I was just going to real quick, but great to see Patrick came back. Yeah. And in Chicago, I think Chicago is a franchise that the NHL is, it's one of those franchises where the league is better off when that team is doing well. Yeah. And there are certain teams like that in every league, right? Yes. The only benefit of Detroit, He has now, as a rank, he's there for five more years too because he'd follow Kane in a moment's notice. They're too good friends. They're two peas in a pod kind of thing, eh? That's funny.
Leo Ernewein: We'll see you. I did want to ask, I guess I don't really need to ask that part because I don't really need to talk about Kane's leadership, I guess. like i don't know the guy and stuff like that. Neither do we. Yeah, that's fine. Before we move on to referee, though, I just want to talk some stuff about an international soccer.
Leo Ernewein: For those that aren't familiar with the hierarchy, global soccer run by Swiss-based non-profit organization called FIFA. And they are headed by this highly controversial president named Gianni Infantino.
Leo Ernewein: Some of you you may know him for his... Budying up to Trump over the World Cup and stuff like that. FIFA governs everything in the sport, and most notably its crown jewel commercial asset, the FIFA World Cup. So recently, he went on to Instagram or Twitter after the World Cup, tried to defend critics by saying, look how successful our World Cup was by saying, look how many celebrities we had at 10 games. And everyone was like, you're you're not reading the room.
Leo Ernewein: couple days after that, he proposed a plan called FIFA Forward Enterprise. It was an opaque plan to privatize parts of the game by selling a multi-billion dollar commercial stake, about 20, just upwards of 20% of future World Cup broadcasting and ticketing rights to private equity investors.
Leo Ernewein: spend one seat Spend one summer with your buddies in America and look what happened. Sorry, and you just kidding. private equity though right a lot of people and clearing including like UEFA which is like the European governing body of soccer out there we're we're going saying that they're going to boycott any world cups if that were to happen they said it's not your football is a game for the people it's not your game to sell you govern it you don't own it So European lawmakers are demanding investigations on top of into political ethics, ethics violations over political interference during the recent World Cup tournament. No doubt there was probably political interference. You kind of you can't. I believe that there'd be political interference and bribery from the Trump administration. US Congress representative Jamie Raskins launched a former House Judiciary investigation into alleged bribery and quid pro quo schemes between Infantino and the Trump administration. It's not like we haven't seen that before with the prior boss of FIFA, Seth Blatter, who is notoriously binned off corruption. And everyone's now saying it's hard for Infantino to make Seth Blatter look like an angel.
Leo Ernewein: which he seems to be doing. Yes. Just yesterday, senior executives held an emergency crisis meeting in Morocco. FIFA issued a formal apology to 210 or 211 member association for the botched investment rollout. Essentially, Infantino claimed it was leaked. It was not leaked.
Leo Ernewein: He announced it. Now he's claiming a statement saying, oh, it was leaked and we're trying to cover up the backlash. Officially or infre re-infirmed their backing of the Infantino. Some members did. Despite that internal backing, though, the English Football Association has completely withdrawn support. So no England at World Cups, which is good for now because they're a major factor. European governing body UEFA threatening a total World Cup boycott, as I mentioned before, unless Infantino resigns, which he should be. He was also reportedly trying to increase his reported $6 million dollars salary to upwards of 60. This is FIFA, a nonprofit organization that sits on over a billion dollars in their coffers.
Leo Ernewein: shouldn't say over a billion cause I don't know, but they've reported to have a lot of money sitting in investment funds and stuff like that. Landon from an ethical standpoint though, do you think global sports governing bodies can actually remain politically neutral when there are billions of dollars of commercial revenue on the line? Like,
Leo Ernewein: It's pretty hard. Yeah. I mean, we, we've talked about, you know, in past episodes, how, you know, we talked about, you know, you know, CBC being, you know, unfortunately being taken out. i mean, money talks.
Leo Ernewein: It's, yeah. Right? It's just money money talks. And and when when money figures, when people see money figures on the page and they see that, it's really hard to ignore It's just, where do these football associations like England, like Colmobol, who represents yeah Canada and, and and not Colmobol, but Colmobol, who represents Canada and America and all that, and Mexico. Where do they stand? Because they have a lot to gain from something like this, but also a lot to lose. Because where do you draw the line? Where do you think they would stand?
Leo Ernewein: i You know what? i I don't know what the answer is to that question because because i think I think there's too many groups around the world that are have different opinions on this. But I do think that relatively they all relatively agree that this is about...
Leo Ernewein: This is about the game. This isn't about making money. Yeah, it's not. theirs to You can't sell 20% of the World Cup to private equity and expect nothing but bad results and corruption. Yeah, exactly. It's toxicity.
Leo Ernewein: But i I do think, though, that Infantino, he needs to go. Oh, for sure. All his antics that he did with Trump and and all that stuff and and trying to turn it into this whole Americanized thing. He reversed a red card. It was the first time in World Cup history or ending that a red card has been reversed by an official yeah after... Not even after like an official looked into it. It was after a government official, a.k.a. Trump, said, hey, you know what? We need our top striker in game against Belgium. And they still lost, but that's not the point. Yeah. It's just... it's just he He's... he's he's gone We always talk about how people...
Leo Ernewein: You know, we even, even we talk about how in coaching firings in sports, how eventually the message gets old in the room.
Leo Ernewein: I think the message, i think the message is getting very old. You hit the nail on the head there. And I think, I think every single country. And groups are have i've had enough of him. And I think he needs to go. i think that If not, at least far. The Jordanian Football Association officially represents Jordan. yeah Accused Infantino of bribery.
Leo Ernewein: That doesn't It doesn't surprise me at all. Yeah, it's it's just it's it's sad to see how far... health How tone deaf he is. yeah He's got a famous quote...
Leo Ernewein: that goes when he announced the Qatari World Cup, it goes today I feel Qatari. That was his famous quote. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. So there's a lot of people saying it's today I feel jobless.
Leo Ernewein: And that's what we hope. Yeah. For him. Yeah. Not me. Although I am jobless. I mean, we don't want to. i think we we We all agree that we don't want to see people lose their jobs. No, it's not fun.
Leo Ernewein: But with with that being said. But sometimes it's deserved. It's well deserved, yeah. so You don't want to ask me what I think about soccer.
Leo Ernewein: He's not a fan. That's fair. no I never used to be growing up. i always felt like oh would i never I always felt like people were rolling on the floor and stuff like that. What got me into soccer? I've never seen a sport that does everything they can to make it boring. To make it harder for themselves. Yeah, that's fair. I can i can understand that.
Leo Ernewein: Sorry, soccer fans. No, you're fine. What got me into soccer was just the thought of... Like I always thought, oh, that's like I loved football, baseball, basketball, like any volleyball, anything to do with your hands. And then I don't know why I just something clicked for me where I was like, imagine of these pro guys that were really good with their hands trying to do that stuff with their feet. And I was like, oh, yeah, they'd all be screwed. with These guys are really good athletes, too. And then I'm not trying to say they're better athletes because they are.
Leo Ernewein: It's just a different kind of athlete. Yeah, it's a very different country. And I am much better at the hand stuff than I am. I am trash. have a friend of ours who lives in Winnipeg. They were up in my first teaching job with us and she's from Norway.
Leo Ernewein: bug that we lost to England, right? And she called England nothing but a bunch of divers. And I said, they're all the whole sport are divers. Why would you blame England? England has a notorious diver. I mean, he didn't play in this tournament, but he's played in past FIFA tournaments. His name was Brahim Sterling. He kind of ran like a T-Rex with his hands kind of like that.
Leo Ernewein: And anytime he was in the box, if anybody kind of you know Somebody farted next to him, he would fall over. He was that bad. and I kind of liked Raheem Sterling for the rest of his ability. That part made me rage.
Leo Ernewein: well We'll move off of soccer, though. I did kind of want to talk a little bit about Canadian football. There was game on today when we walked in, right? Why not ad-lib it? Some CFL stuff. You guys feel like doing that? Sure. ahead.
Leo Ernewein: He's going to run over and check the score, and I'm going to Google it. But, yeah, I figured we got the time, right? Yeah. 24-20 Stamps. Yeah. We're in the third quarter still? Or is it entering the fourth? or Third quarter. Okay.
Leo Ernewein: Stamps. Show me the record here. We're in week 10. Four and four. Thank you, guys. It's been a little bit of a disconnect between me and Stampeders since I stopped working for Rogers. That's my fault, though. I've got to start get back into the sports following CFL stuff. It was more of a... It was easy to do it when I was working, right? And then we did podcasts and stuff like that. And then then I've not been working. It's kind of, I've i've let it slip a little bit. So I've got to get back with that. Take a look at the stand. Sorry, go ahead. was just saying, we've been seasoned.
Leo Ernewein: yeah It's fun going to the games. and I feel like the environment's more personal when you go to a game like this. like I've never been to an NFL game, but to me, I just feel like a number. If I were to go to an NFL game, you sit up in the house. Or a CFL game.
Leo Ernewein: No, if I were to go to an NFL game, I'd feel like a number. If I go to a CFL game, I feel like I get up close and personal. yeah And I mean, sometimes it does feel a bit more bare bones, but it also kind of gives that that real aspect, almost like you're you're on, you're almost on the ground level sometimes. Right. And, and I think you only kind of get that feel, in other, in other versions of football with college and high school, you don't get that in the NFL. And, and even some colleges, you don't get that. I'm talking about junior colleges. It's interesting. me I'm on Facebook. I'm part of a CFL charter group. Yeah. Right. And,
Leo Ernewein: I find it's it really interesting some of the comments that go, most of the comments that go, oh, the CFL or a lack of people in the stands and, excuse me, and, your you know, what's happening here and the equity in the stadiums are ugly, and which is true.
Leo Ernewein: I mean, McMahon is. But that's not a big deal to me. No, i mean me neither. like these are When we go to the Stampeders game, there's probably 19,000 to 20,000 homes. 19 or 20,000 people that want to be there. Yeah. To me, that's a positive because it's it means I have to wait less. I'm not a big crowd guy either. So when I see something sold out, I'm not...
Leo Ernewein: Not as in, sometimes they get anxiety be outgoing, you know, and stuff like that for a sporting event. If I know that it's, it's kind of like a half day, if you will, or something like that, as as far as it goes for sale and 19 isn't even a half day, that's probably more more than half. yeah Greg Peterson made a comment on on, one of the broadcasts when we're driving home about the stadiums. And he said, you know, the CFL seriously needs to look at building smaller stadiums.
Leo Ernewein: they need to be like to be a mo control yes where you can put thirty thousand yes and that's what they're goingnna be they're gonna be a thirty thousand yeah to 32,000 plus league. They're not going to be 100,000. and I hate to bring up soccer, but they did the same thing and in Italy. they Italy's famous for historic stadiums with soccer, right? And this club called Juventus, who had an old stadium and stuff like that, it fit about maybe 70,000 or something like that. They built a smaller, i think it was 40, 45 or something like that on purpose because they said the atmosphere is better. A hundred percent is better. And you can see it. It's tighter knit. It's closer, updated amenities. It doesn't cost a fortune to maintain.
Leo Ernewein: only thing I can say is that I like walk all soccer because I love watching the fans. Yeah, that's what, yeah. soer mean For them to sit through an hour game like they do. You've got to come up with some creative chants. Yeah, I know. Shooting flags and shooting flares and stuff. Yeah, I do love... That's one thing I like. I think one of my two favorite sports right now is probably college football and soccer. And i think the two things that can relate to them is like the... come the the almost pagerant pageantry behind like the fan base and spectacle behind the show. yeah They really try to, soccer doesn't so much as try to sell it as much as college football does. College football, you know, they'll do like walkouts and senior day and special stickers on your helmet for all the academic accomplishments you've got. And, you know, there's all sorts of levels to it.
Leo Ernewein: But I also like, and I like the rivalries too. I think soccer and, and, like the derby and soccer and the derby and soccer and yeah the rivalries and culture. Yeah I'm not sure what's happening with the CFL this year but this year the CFL has pretty good, eh? Yeah. You have a lot of 50-point games and 40-point games. I did see a few shootouts almost that were going down to game-winning field goals and stuff. Yeah. yeah yeah Toronto, I think, was a part of one of them with the Rough Riders. calary and Rough Riders were one. Yeah, I remember them losing on a heartbreaker. Yeah.
Leo Ernewein: The Stamps could be probably very easy, seven and one. Oh, wow, with how many close games they've been in. Wow. So they could have been tied with the L.S. It's just – it's been – agree with my dad. I think this has been by far the best season as excitement has. as i I mean, every game's been close.
Leo Ernewein: I mean, scoring's been up. Defense has been brutal for all the teams. Do you think that's going to be – I mean, that's that does make for an entertaining game. It does. It does.
Leo Ernewein: A lot of, only the real football purists love a defensive showdown. when When you were watching a Super Bowl and you saw like a 9-3 victory, everybody was like, this was junk. like Even though there was probably like four sacks for either defense. so You don't don't want to go to a CFL game and watch field goals. Yeah, that's not what you're here for. Exactly. I go there I don't want to see the quarterback pull the football down the field. I want to see 400 yards, three touchdowns, and a pick six. Yeah. Yeah, that's what it's about, baby.
Leo Ernewein: Any other games on for the CFO today? No, just like the yeah, just the one. And tomorrow we got Red Black's Rough Riders. So so we're speaking of which, I think I don't i don't want to say this on the air. I would say it on the air. What the heck? That think it's we're talking about how fans get into it as a family. I think. in the beginning October, I think we're going to be going to see what our Rough Rider game looks like. I like that. Calgary's going to be there. Calgary's going to be there. That, to me, is probably the mecca of... We were there a long time ago. Was that a stadium, too? Old Mosaic. Yeah, it was... Old Mosaic. And they were...
Leo Ernewein: Oh, it's Taylor Field. Taylor Field is what it was called. And we were, this was a long time ago. I was a kid. There was no fans there. Cause I think this was during the time when I think the Rough Riders were really, really bad and they were having, they had actually, that team actually almost went bankrupt.
Leo Ernewein: At times, and that's how bad they were. And it's hard. or Other times aren't far behind them right now. But I mean, but but I mean, now they're, you know, they're basically the driving bus, the CFL. But I'm really intrigued to see what what the atmosphere I mean, the atmosphere on TV always looks really cool. It's a lot of fun. I'm really intrigued to see what actually what what it looks like live, because that's the part I'm looking forward to. And then getting Hacco for Waring Red. You guys both going out? There's no more than going to a Step-Beater game than listening to all the Step-Beater fans go all right. All the Ryder fans back down with their yellow and green and their stupid watermelon hats. I went to a Flames game for a few times this year with with a buddy of mine who had some season tickets. And and it was pretty cool.
Leo Ernewein: And I haven't been to a Flames game... Like, I know i'm talking flames instead Stampeders, but i'll I'll link this here together in a second. I haven't been to a Flames game since I was a kid. Like, probably nine or ten, right? And so they're singing the national anthem, and when they sing, they do the Sea of Red. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was another moment where they say that stuff like that.
Leo Ernewein: Each time I went, I still couldn't remember to do it. Because when I was a kid, I felt like that never happened. No, I got right like you have to go to a, sometime in your lifetime, you have to go to a Vegas game in Vegas. Oh, man. That'll be something. you want You want to see a show on a show? Don't they have like a pool or something, like a tub or something? Yeah, a hot tub.
Leo Ernewein: pregame intro and stuff going on. They totally make a spectacle over it. Vegas is trying to put a spectacle over it. Rightfully so.
Leo Ernewein: I wonder if Vegas is doing that, what a place is like, and't I don't know, maybe Nashville is pretty good, but what does the Minnesota Wild have? Yeah, good question. be interesting to see how, without getting away from this, but it's interesting to see how the other teams do, do they promo stuff now, because I mean, that's where Vegas is so far ahead here. They make the they make the your ticket experience weren't worth coming to. yeah i don't think the other team do that. Yeah, no, I think you're right. and I think as we were talking a little bit about Vegas earlier and how kind of the sports market almost seems like it's going to get saturated. I think the Vegas Golden Knights are going pretty safe because of stuff like that that you mentioned.
Leo Ernewein: And because if they established themselves there pretty early before these other teams too. Although a lot of, I know a lot of Canadian hockey fans don't like that team because of because of yeah why was the LTIR. To get back to the CFP. Landon has some friends that listen to the game broadcast in Kelowna. So anyways, a shout out to them for their for the Apple Bowl game.
Leo Ernewein: and When we had the Kelowna Watchers Tamps and BC Lions couple of weeks ago in June, it was phenomenal. Landon and i were talking about it on the last episode. Whoever's in charge of that, we're helping put that together. you get Props. Give yourselves a pat on the back to everybody who made the Apple Bowl stuff happen. We were talking about a la design baseball football you know like whatever it was like awesome you know We had a load of people sitting behind us and and then one guy said, you know like I'm not a big CFL fan, but I wish they'd come back here more often. than this Yeah. We were just saying how I think they should do more of that. Yeah. More either twice a year there. like Did they do twice a year? Yeah. There's two games there a year, right? No. That's the first time they've ever played in Clona.
Leo Ernewein: never if That's the inaugural. They've gone to Victoria, but they to Kelowna. They've never gone to Kelowna. They've got so many lines fans there. They should go deep in the Okanagan again. Kelowna. Yeah. It sounds like it. Because Kelowna is a little bit bigger than Canloops, right? Yeah. Kelowna is the third largest city in BC and they're top 20 in Canada. Wow. They're really that big. they are It's a huge city. It's growing. oh Wow.
Leo Ernewein: Yeah. well Huge city. Look at the area. got Kelowna, Herd, and Peachtek, and Pentwick. Yeah. Yeah. You know. So anyways. All right, well, should we kind of jump into bit more of the officiating questions here, you guys? Yeah, kind of wraps up stuff for the headlines. Perfect transition chat or perfect transist and to chat with Irv.
Leo Ernewein: All about his high stakes sports politics and controversy, or all this talk about high stakes sports politics and controversies reminds us us just how tough it is to maintain order on the field or on the ice. Luckily, though, we have someone in the room with us who knows exactly what it takes to manage chaos.
Leo Ernewein: and enforce the rules under intense pressure. Irv lets us officially shift back to your legendary time wearing the stripes. Wow. Actually, you know, why it's funny because never ever thought about being a ref. Yeah. actually coached hockey.
Leo Ernewein: When I started coaching hockey, was coaching... I think probably your team. Yeah, my team or Colton's. And we had six coaches on the bench. And don't know how many times throughout our season, first season coached, that we didn't have in games council because had no reps. Yeah, and you just kind of filled in for necessity. So three of us, our coaches decided, well, if we want these kids to play and we're not wasting our time. we went to our referees badge and that's Basically how I started. Wow. now we awaukee startup Just because but we had no refs in band. Yeah. Or very few.
Leo Ernewein: i shouldn't say no. We had very few. And the refs that we did have were were fantastic guys. and And, you know. But a dime a dozen, right? It's hard to find. Yeah. You probably know like Gary Hogarth. Yeah. And those guys. but John Hogarth. And then Paul Speedy. There was, what was, it's Bill. What was his last name? Bill Hogue. Bill Hogue. Yeah, I know Bill. Yeah. bill And then we had...
Leo Ernewein: Bill Rion, Rion from Banffir. I don't know. and i would yeah mean not That was kind of the reason why I think Landon talked about this a long time ago, but part the whole refereeing thing was the commandership. as a group because we had lot of fun together as group. Yeah, you guys liked each other. It sort made easy to do it. And then, yeah, as life goes on, it kind of becomes a bit more tough to keep. And then the newer crop just doesn't kind of come through except for Lando.
Leo Ernewein: It's tough, man. yeah But I did want to ask you, how does it feel to see your son kind of follow in your footsteps? Oh, it was good. Because, you know, Lando had more ambition in the in the hockey world than I did. i I mean, I've actually got to my level three and you know that's probably what i wanted to But it was fun.
Leo Ernewein: Both... it both so go ahead. What level are you? i I was a level three too. Okay, cool. Yeah, that's as high as I got too. Yeah, we were junior B level or AJ Lions level. Yeah, yeah. we were And so and it was actually both Landon and Colton.
Leo Ernewein: Colton came afterwards. Right, and he reped lot. Yeah, didn't quite like the referee and style of it. But he tried it a little bit? Yeah, he's like, you know what, the same for me guys, I like to play. I get too competitive, like that too it's not actually funny because I
Leo Ernewein: 15 years and then after after getting out of the ATA when he played at State for two years he started refereeing men's hockey at the S8 intramurals okay and he said Yikes. Yeah. From that, from the level that he was at to them doing that, it's almost like you're calling a penalty and they're going, what's wrong? And you're like, if you want something done right, you do it yourself. And then you just want to grab the stick and play. you can do you can Yeah. yeah this is the whole that Colton, one thing that Colton forgot to share on those number of episodes, Colton had a better appreciation for officials when he played in the AJ and, yeah,
Leo Ernewein: or he went in the AJ because he knew what, what it, cause he was on the other side of the ice. Yeah. but He knew it didn't mean that he didn't get frustrated with the officiating, but he actually was, you never really, you saw him talk to them, but you knew you never saw him yell at them. You knew that he had a that you knew that he understood that there was a line. Yeah. And then he knew well to stay well away from it. He knew, he knew too that the referees on the ice couldn't BS him.
Leo Ernewein: Because he knew the rules. Because he knew the rules and he knew the calls. Yes. And he knew what the referees were looking for what they were looking for. Yes, exactly. So he could almost call them on. If they even gave a wrong signal on a penalty and he didn't like it, like the wrong hand call on a penalty and he didn't like it, say, you know, it was hold and they, no, this is hold. It was funny. One of the games he told me, he said that Ryan Papano, his coach, and he said to him,
Leo Ernewein: called them Why are they calling that? And I turned around and looked at him. Happy they're calling the right thing. you had that yeah And that ended that discussion. right That's so funny that your coach can be like, come on, man, that's so wrong. you're like actually And Happy was notorious for yapping. But it goes to speak the relationship that they had that he goes,
Leo Ernewein: you know what, that's, and he goes, no, no, no, stop it. And that was done. Yeah. End of it. Yeah. You don't really see that with players and coaches, right? Yeah. Especially with, you know, a coach, a player gives an answer a coach doesn't want to hear.
Leo Ernewein: You're going to get pushback from the coach. Yeah. Props to Ryan, props to Colton. Yeah. But the tune is hard. But yeah, it was good to see. It's good to see Landon move on and Murray went into hockey and You know, I mean, and I know, know, how after a while it got pretty frustrating for both of us. and That's why we're not reffing anymore. But then we eventually got, then we eventually both move into basketball. Now we're with, which we really like. Yes. Yeah. Right. And basketball fun in the Valley. and And there's a lot, I think there's more, yeah i wouldn't say there's more opportunity to ref basketball games, but there's probably more opportunity to ref basketball games than there used to be. There is way more. Oh yeah. Well, I guess, Dad, do you want to kind of share? I guess for us, do you want to share?
Leo Ernewein: I'll share my little bit why i stepped back and and got frustrated with hockey, just to kind of explain it. like guess As long as it doesn't throw anybody under the bus. No, it doesn't. It's not funny. No. For me, for me i just the game changed so much. that that and then, group. Yep.
Leo Ernewein: you know dad talked about you know the group yep everybody was starting to move on yeah people. And then we had all these newer people to coming in. And I mean, not that new ideas weren't a bad thing, but they just, they, it just, they, they didn't, they didn't get it and then we tried to explain to them and we like, we tried to tell them like, we have experience. We know how to handle all these situations. Let us help you. Oh no, no, we can't. And it just, it got frustrating. And then, And then just the stupidity on the ice was getting worse. Like, coaches were getting worse.
Leo Ernewein: Players were getting worse. were noticing that, eh? I was so noticing it. And no matter what you did out on the ice, whether you called a penalty or you – you know how Leo, we were – my dad and I were pretty tough as as officials. Like, we – there was no BS type thing on the ice. Yeah, you guys didn't let a lot of shit go. No. A lot of stuff go. Yeah, yeah exactly. but But, like – But we tried to look back off on that a little bit.
Leo Ernewein: And then all of a sudden, it just like it was just it was a never-ending battle. And I i just remember i want one game, and I think I talked about this a while back, but I just remember one game when Dad and I came home. It was just before Christmas, and it was a Bantam U15 tournament. We came back that Saturday night, and we had a line brawl in you fifteen And it just went sideways. So and and people were yelling at us like I remember i called a call the goal because somebody somebody followed somebody from behind past the red line. Yeah, and that's the rule.
Leo Ernewein: if if there's If there's no goalie in in the net and he gets fouled from behind, doesn't matter. if whatever Whatever part of the ice, whether he's on a breakaway or anything like that, if he' if he's going towards the net and he gets fouled from behind, there's no it's a goal. If there's an open net, it's a goal. And they were freaking out about all that. and I just remember going home one time.
Leo Ernewein: and dad and I were driving and I just said to dad, I said, what are we doing, dad? done, eh? Like, what, what, what, do like, I, I just told him that right there and then i just said, you know what, dad, I'm done. I, I can't, I just, I, I've been thinking about quitting for a while just during the pandemic and I thought, okay, with the pandemic being gone,
Leo Ernewein: or the potential pandemic going on, and we had that year off that I thought, okay, you know i I'm excited to go back on the ice, and was looking forward to going back. And then it was just the same stuff. And I just, I didn't have the drive of for hockey anymore. And I just, i lost I lost the passion for it. And then just with all that other stupidity that was going on, I just i just couldn't do it anymore. And I just said to my dad, I'm quitting right there. And then and I phoned signer and texted him, and I just said,
Leo Ernewein: I said to the ass assigner, I just, I can't, I can't do this anymore. I just, I, I, I'm done. i can't, I can't ref anymore. So I don't blame you, man. I mean, if you're seeing things starting to trend downhill,
Leo Ernewein: And you're going, what am going to continue signing up for this for? And it's not worth money. Yeah, if you're leaving it going miserable, thinking about all the people yelling at you, and that's what's occupying your mind, that's not fun. That's not right. And that's not what it's supposed to be. That's kind of where I was. I was so frustrated with Alberta hockey. Yeah?
Leo Ernewein: Their inability, and I might get in trouble for this, but their inability to to control parents, i believe that yeah either either they they didn't want to or they couldn't. They used to be better with that, weren't they? You know, I have a friend that works in Alberta, Hawking, him and I talked lots of times. okay And i I said to him, I said, I know i can tell you how you control the parents.
Leo Ernewein: It's very simple. What you do is is you give the free officials the authority to to throw them out you write them up and then what happens is is it goes back to their minor hockey association. They get their two game suspension like they normally would, but now they get fined.
Leo Ernewein: they get The association gets fined for $1,000 and that pair gets signed a fine of $500. And they neither one can play until those fines are paid.
Leo Ernewein: That would end it. You would have zero. I like the idea of neither one can play until those fines are paid because I know There's no parent out there in the world that wants to spend $500 on a fine. Just because for them to argue? Yeah, right. They're already paying enough for minor league hockey assets. And that would shut it down.
Leo Ernewein: and And the reason why I think that is i just i just don't see Alberta hockey maybe they have now maybe they've done it now not been out of it for while but their refusal to support young officials like I saw many in London how many young officials we had to step in front of front of them in parent lines and they were just getting screwed and it's like
Leo Ernewein: guys, is this is harassment here. Like that's workplace harassment. This kid's 13 years old and they're just screaming. Yeah. And, and you know, what's funny is, is too, is if that kid was in like a Home Depot uniform and that other parent who was screaming at him was shopping at Home Depot and saw somebody losing their cool at the Home Depot kit, they'd probably think something was wrong with that, but because he's wearing stripes and officiating their kid's game The emotion's high. it's It's okay. Yeah. I just – hockey, honey and we see it even in the NHL, hockey has become so opinionated.
Leo Ernewein: I mean, every sport's becoming like this, but I've really noticed in hockey that everybody thinks that they have an opinion on how – I don't like that call. Well, so what? You don't like that call. I don't, the referees don't care if they called it. Yeah. Your, your opinion. I don't feel like hockey is a, is a subjective for a referee as other sports, right? Like basketball really subjective. Yes. When you're pulling foul.
Leo Ernewein: Hockey, it's kind of like, eh, no man. Like he hit him across the wrist. That's a slash. Yeah. i don't care how hard it was. Yeah. and you know i think too and in in hockey where basketball is different. Basketball, you just call fouls.
Leo Ernewein: Yeah. And hockey, it's now come to... You control the game more. game management. Yeah. yeah it's all about game management. It's not about not about necessarily calling hockey fouls or whatever. I'm convinced. You control the flow. And watching NHL games.
Leo Ernewein: Those NHL guys take so much crap, but they they deserve it because they don't call the game, but they're they're told how to call the game Game management with communication marks. It's a microphone in the air, right? I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised. This is how you're manage the game. I don't know they do that or not. I can't say that for sure. but But, you know, how many games we watch that things happen on the ice and they're getting screamed at, if they would have called that in the first place, or like in minor hockey, you know what we're doing. like We're chucking them.
Leo Ernewein: yeah That's exactly what they needed in the NHL. Oh, totally. Hand up misconducts and game misconducts. Yeah, they used to do that, and didn't they? And you would shut those pairs up. those i I miss baseball, where if you hit a baseball player, they would charge the mound, because that was fun to watch. yeah And then I also miss the part where somebody would... And I think you still see this in now and then a little bit with with the... ummps Not as much with that zone thing that they have in there now, the...
Leo Ernewein: PCI zone whatever it's called the thing that they challenge oh yeah but I loved when umps and somebody would argue with basically there's iconic ones right where this one manager I forget his name it's Tony Piniella no can't remember who it was took off his shoe put the manager's face because he's like you stink so he takes off his shoe and it's like do you smell like this right look it was hilarious I love it when they're throwing out the base and Yeah, throw in all bases. Yeah. I can't remember who that was. The other thing that changed my whole thought about hockey too, and I'm not going to name names, but Canada Motor Hockey, I think, has done very admirable job in trying to police their rink. Okay. I think they have a committee now that –
Leo Ernewein: is in charge of looking at, I'm not sure how that all works, so but but it was out to them. I think they've done a pretty good job at trying to at least one night, up until one night before I left. yeah yeah we had We had a few officials in our own group that came in afterwards it kind of threw people under the bus. and kind of bug some of us too, that a lot of the guys left because we had some officials who thought they were bigger than what they were. Yeah. Right. And that kind of turned sour, right? and The point that to me, being an official was like to to make the game not about you. Right. and And I always thought you guys did a great job of that because you you guys mentioned how you kind of thought you were a bit hard. I always thought you were a bit more fair than most, at least in my opinion. I got like from when one I was on the bench, you know, and hearing John Monroe
Leo Ernewein: Derek never really said anything. John Monroe would love to chirp. Shout out John Monroe. He's about fantasy football league still, but he would love to say stuff. And I always felt like he was saying it more just to say it than he was actually saying it that he believed it. yeah You know, like I always think, i always think back who, who was the guy on camera that had the pharmacy?
Leo Ernewein: Scott McLeod. Yeah. Yeah. well Scott McLeod. And I can remember, Adam Mara and I remember Curtis Jones. And I remember all those three guys and they said you know what? The one thing that we can say Landon and Irv and some of the other guys is a penalty that's in the first period.
Leo Ernewein: A penalty in the third period. Yeah, you guys were there's no probably the most consistent. You knew what your yes in the first period yeah he knew you were the And you never let the refs or the coaches, the fans, like, in your yeah, you guys were pretty pretty model referees when it came to, like, not getting interfered. Because you see it nowadays a lot more, I think, yeah where you can get affected by the crowd or the coaches or whatever. And look and I think it was important, too. I think the kids too that play hockey, at least the kids that we know, just so you know one of one of the things that the biggest comp in the world is, as you know what, man Mr. And some of them are taught in school. lot of them come, hey, Mr. Sam, you know what? We love you guys refing hockey because we know that we know where our line is on the ice. We know that if we open our mouths, we know what's going to happen.
Leo Ernewein: So then there was no blocking. There was no gray area with you. Yeah, it was a fair... It's what it was. it To me, it's what... Like, almost the epitome of what an official should be.
Leo Ernewein: And I think you guys nailed that well i the parent on that. The parent... It was funny. I remember a lot of parents where came came to whoever present or or even just to you and we're just off the ice and they and we got to know a lot of these parents and I'm still friends with them to this but they they all said to us that anytime that we ref they knew their kids were going to be saving you guys did a great job at that yeah didn't even thought of that hockey hockey is what it is they said sometimes things just happen but we knew that when you guys were repping
Leo Ernewein: that penalties are going to be called and the kids are be safe. You know, and that's all. And that's the biggest compliment. Yeah. I think that's huge because I think you guys did such a good job that when I was playing and you guys were reffing, it wasn't even the thought of in danger of any of that sense. Right. It wasn't even thought,
Leo Ernewein: And I think now as I get older, you know, you go to certain places around the world or certain places and and anywhere else and stuff like that. And you can get some so some bias from referees or or just, well, bias could be very dangerous, right? If somebody hits somebody from behind and they're like, and I don't know how to slide because I know that family, right? And we both know, you you know as much as I do, is that, you know, we didn't do everything always right.
Leo Ernewein: No, no, no, no. We made mistakes and sometimes coaches got a little bit vocal because we made mistakes and so we had, but i but I think the greatest compliment in the world is from the parents and the kids. We knew where the group, we knew where the line was yeah and we knew we were safe. Yes.
Leo Ernewein: That's pretty good. all Yeah. It's hard to argue with doing a better job than that. Hey guys. And you know, the last comment is I think, the the ASAA, the high school association that runs all the sport high school sports. They do a far better job at, I don't know. Backing their referees. Backing, protecting officials. their rules because they're teachers who make the rules their the team no understand yeah no and and there rules mean something. And they've had experience enough to to see what what the system was like before these rules were in place. I can't remember. I've reped basketball now for probably, well, I've been out of school for 20 years. So I've reped basketball all the way through 20 years. and I can't remember once that I had any trouble with parents. Isn't that crazy? and Isn't that insane? and And basketball is a way more emotional game than hockey is. yeah You think? Oh, by far. Yeah.
Leo Ernewein: because it's far more physical.
Leo Ernewein: I think people don't give basketball the credit it deserves for the physicality that you see under the basket. it's very Because a lot of the physicality is away from the ball. And nobody's watching you away from the ball while you're battling for position or jockeying for you know a box out or whatever. yeah So I think I can agree with you on that.
Leo Ernewein: I think hockey still, i don't know if I'd go with more physical, but you guys, again, have been on the side of both. And I haven't been on the basketball. court or a hawk key for music physical year does z coy equipment Yes. all the Way physical game because they have no equipment. Yeah. but Yeah. There's a lot of blockouts and a lot of picks. Like I've seen guys just get leveled. so mean from From a pick. Yeah. he Right. And it's, it's not illegal.
Leo Ernewein: No. If he kept his feet planted. Right. Yeah. I think hockey can be a bit more credited for physicality because of the speed too. yeah right And that tends to go hand in hand with sometimes the accidental collisions. land I did want to ask you this though.
Leo Ernewein: What do you think was the number one piece of advice that your father gave to you when you started out? one of the Well, there number of them. I think one of them was blow your whistle loud. Yeah, that one always stuck. and Be that whole always stuck yeah and being confident in your call.
Leo Ernewein: And then he just said being it be in the best position you can to make a call. That's pretty important. If you're in the best position you can to make a call, nobody's going to...
Leo Ernewein: Yeah, nobody no nobody's going to bash you for it. yeah But i think one one of the one of the the other things that I think dad my dad taught me too is when you make a call, sell it.
Leo Ernewein: Make sure you whether you're right or wrong, you make sure you sell you you sell it because If you know you don't believe in it, if you show that you believe in it. Show that you believe it. You're going to get far less pushback if you do. And then have fun with it.
Leo Ernewein: right and Yeah, how fun with it still yeah it's still you're still watching the game. That's point. yeah for Oh, you did say blow the whistle. no I forgot where i was going transition with it I had something else that I heard from that. It'll come back to me. of Some of the biggest issues with young officials back when i was mentoring and young officials who would just be coming up, they didn't know how to blow the You're on the ice with them with your mentoring jacket and you hear this
Leo Ernewein: read you know like who who's gonna hear that Yeah. Blow that whistle. No, the play isn't going to stop. Yeah. Whether you're right or wrong, i blow that whistle. So I did an umpiring camp for baseball when I was like 13 or something like that.
Leo Ernewein: And I just remember when they were like, do your, your out call. And they kept telling I was too quiet. i was too shy. Nobody's going to hear your out call. And stuff like that. and And this brings me back to the other thing that I meant to ask you too. isn't I was going ask you guys if you do guys do any softball.
Leo Ernewein: No. When I was 13 years old, when was in Madison Hat, I roughed some umpires in baseball games. But other than that, that's right. Who's the lady that used to, I can't remember, she hurt she had kids in minor her hockey too. She always tried to guess into umpire minor baseball.
Leo Ernewein: can't remember what her name was. But oh and for me, it was this, uh, the stocks when the stock. yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She, she's the one who got me into minor league baseball. she was absolutely every hockey season So shout out the stocks. I love the stocks, man. They were such a fun family. yeah, love them. Loved Vince, Linda, Brendan, the Scott Steven. Yeah. Whole family, bunch of gems.
Leo Ernewein: But yeah, they they got me into umpiring. They got me into playing baseball as well, too. so did they all good Yeah, I mean, I played a little bit with my friends at the park and stuff like that. And they kind of pushed me towards the next step of being like, hey, Brendan's going to sign up. Are going to sign up? And i was I was friends with Brendan at the time. We played volleyball and stuff like that. don't I don't think ever once, I don't think i ever critiqued any of you.
Leo Ernewein: That was going to be the next question. No? Because I thought the answer was going to guaranteed. i Well, I think one one time, i i don't think you critiqued it, but you did say that I i think, he said, I think you chintzed out on on a chance to call a check from behind, but you went boarding instead. Yeah. Or instead of going a match, you just stayed major.
Leo Ernewein: But I don't think that you went a bit more on the hesitant side than on the harsh side. I think that was more, that's the most critiqued. We ever did it, you know, the critiques each other. It was more in the game, though. Oh, man. The rousing we did on the ice to each other. Oh, my goodness. They were so I remember the time was going to go in the car and say anything, but on the ice in between periods or something, we'd all be talking about calls. Yeah, and then to quiet our heart, our long car running over. remember one time, one time, because...
Leo Ernewein: I always teased my dad about being red line Irv. And and i always harassed my dad about that because every time he he he made really good calls, don't get me wrong.
Leo Ernewein: But it was so funny. He called something from the center line and we were doing either a two man or a three. three man. And I was like, I always, after he made his penalty call, and I picked up the puck and he was making his call, his signal to the penalty box. Yeah. I was like, good good call red line Irv. Yeah. You feel like he taught me better than that, yeah which I didn't want to mention. Cause I was going to ask you if you guys do softball. My dad and I played softball the together for a long time. Yeah. And he would often games. They would get me in first. It started with just me humping games. And then eventually I got my dad to join the team.
Leo Ernewein: And then he would ump when I was at bat and stuff like that. And they kind of, i don't know what's wrong with me, but I tend to be like a bias towards the other team when I'm umping. Like when I'm umping and it's my team at bat,
Leo Ernewein: sometimes I'm like, I'm not going to give him, shouldn't say I'm not going to give him the hit. It's, i don't even think that way. It's just like I don't want to be accused of being biased. So I lean towards, and my dad was never like that. He was always a bit more fair, but he always taught me the stuff about being in position. Yeah. Cause he, he noticed that sometimes I would make calls from that first base while I'm still standing behind the plate. He's like, no man, like run down the line, make it easier for yourself. That was always the biggest joke in our association. Yeah. Cause I, I always say to Latin and,
Leo Ernewein: don't know. Whatever you do, you get away from that center ice call. Yeah, yeah. Well, and and it was so funny because during in games, there's times where you're as players are supposed to go up the ice, you're supposed to follow the play up. Yeah. And then you're supposed to get to the opposite blue line. Yeah. And all of a sudden, Dad's just trotting along. and i I'm actually on pretty good stride. And I just go from one ice to the other. And then all of a sudden, Dad sees me in the corner. he's like He backs off and he goes like this. And I wish we had the camera on, but he goes...
Leo Ernewein: He goes like this and I can just see him smiling and I'm just laughing. Give him a massive thumbs up. Oh, man. And then he goes, or sometimes one time if it was such a boring game and we're both just trying to keep ourselves warm, I book it down the ice and dad goes to me like he puts his arms up and he's like, what are you doing?
Leo Ernewein: It's always easier to make the call from Sunrise because you don't go have to go as far to the penalty box to make it. Yeah, that's that's fair. That's a good
Leo Ernewein: point. Do you guys have a do you have a favorite memory? Or both of you have a favorite memory maybe together. Where you go first from officiating? I think my favorite memory, I think, was doing Alberta Winter Games.
Leo Ernewein: That's pretty cool. I think that was – I think you mentioned that before in one of them. Yeah, that's pretty sweet. I think that was the biggest – that was my biggest memory is because I made it – I got – I did such a good officiating job as a linesman or a linesperson, whatever you want to call it. that I got to the gold medal game and i mean and in front of you know, i sold out crowd and, and in Banff and it was just in Banff and it was just, out it was, it was, you know, I mean, even though that it was 13 year olds, but I mean, cause these were the best 13 year olds in Alberta. I feel that pressure. I probably could. I'll tell you what, I know I couldn't do that. Yeah. And it was, it was the 13, it was the the best, best,
Leo Ernewein: their best zones were playing, but it was also the best 13-year-olds in Alberta playing. And it was phenomenal hockey. I bet you if you look back at some of the rosters, you might recognize the name or something. bet you some of them are probably close to the NHL or even playing pro in. So that was probably the biggest memory for me. That was the most fun I had, i think. What year? 2012? What was the games here in camera? Was it I want say, so no,
Leo Ernewein: two thousand 15? 16? I can't remember. Roberta is a winner, games in Camdenmore. Yeah, because I think it was 2012. 2014? Oh, 2014. Okay, so yeah, 10 years ago or 12 years ago. But that was by far my favorite memory. And then I think another memory I'll be real quick is I think my favorite memory was...
Leo Ernewein: whenever the Banff Hockey Academy had their tournaments, we always had out of town refs come out. And a lot of the out of town refs were my dad and I's friends or people we know. and And we had such a fun weekend with it. And, and we got to, you know, ref some pretty good hockey teams during that weekend. And even though was a headache at times, you know, dealing with the Banff Hockey Academy at times, but yeah,
Leo Ernewein: Overall, I think that was my my my favorite memories of ref and hockey is just doing that. My third one was just being called upon in minor hockey to do the biggest playoff games, you know finals, no matter what level it was. Minor hockey always requested myself, or my dad, or both, or one of us to be out there. and I think that that's what the most fun that's the most That was my three memories. Dad, what yours? I don't have one.
Leo Ernewein: i'd like you i think yeah we were lucky enough to raff a lot of gold battle games okay and not what There's not one really stands out. They're all fun. But I think my best memories like that, and I think just the com commandership, I think the roughing with the guys, the friendships that we have. We still are friends. Guys from Calgary guys from or guys from or good we rough the guys in ho talkkes and they go on the weekends and And minor hockey was really nice. They put them up in hotels and and thanks to the hotels in Bantford gave us really good deals so these guys could come out. But that's probably my favorite favorite memory. I think just rough just the the reference with all those guys. I can't i can't think of any one of all the years we were out there, any one particular time that was any better. Well, just lot of lot of finals and we did a lot of zone finals. and just yeah yeah it was just think I think probably my my most favorite memory and one I which i think is kind of cool is that Andrew Millen and Ryan Papenow and Brooks would always phone us, our association, to come and ref their camps.
Leo Ernewein: accounts That's pretty sweet. Right. So yeah we're down, we're down roughing, you know, the Brooks, the Brooks, whatever it's called. Bandits. Bandits. Yeah. Pre-season camps. And then we were, Andrew would phone us and say, you know, Can you six guys come in?
Leo Ernewein: Cause we know we're going to a good rest. You know, I think that's, they know they don't have to worry about it. No, no issues. Right. And I think that's one less thing off their plate. have a game highlights. That's probably the two that I think now that are the coolest. Cool. deb brooks and Eagles now preseason counts. So.
Leo Ernewein: And then I did want to ask you guys if both of you have any sort of what's your biggest tip to defuse an angry coach during a tense game or angry fan? I guess but I think.
Leo Ernewein: Well, you know, one one thing that dad and I, i think dad will probably agree with is. We got emotional too. And I think one of the things that you know i've I've learned from officiating to carry it on for life is you got to be the calming influence. You can't raise to their level. And there's times I think him and I, my dad and I both raised to level. And I think we...
Leo Ernewein: or now with what I think we we probably made the situation worse by by us being emotional. and then it they got and And then we used our authority to throw that person out. And instead of maybe maybe we could could have diffused the situation. But I think at the same time, though, if a coach is really being belligerent,
Leo Ernewein: They're going to get thrown out. They should be thrown out regardless. They want to be thrown out. I have no time of the day for that. like but But I think if they can try to diffuse the situation as much as possible and nail them early because if you talk them down early and say that this isn't going to happen in my game, I think that might go a long way. And I think a lot of people let it go way too much. Put the foot down, yeah.
Leo Ernewein: I'd always go over to the bench and I, and you know what? And I like, london so like good we we all get emotional and sometimes we add to the emotion by getting emotional. right But always ask the coach, like, what is it that you're yelling about, man?
Leo Ernewein: Like, is this life or death? And the guys but guy looks at me, oh, no. I said, well, there there's really nothing that to be yelling about. Kind of reality checks. Because this is, I said, this is the only one time I'm coming over to the bench to warn you.
Leo Ernewein: yeah screaming yeah the next time i corner your best you're going to remove you yeah exactly and i said you can agree with my calls fine you can disagree with me fine but it's not going to change anything yeah right and i i'd always tell the coast i'm not perfect you know you you can see something from a different angle than i do and sometimes your angle is way better than i do and sometimes you're probably 100 right but more often than not It's too bad. The call's made. That's what I'm here for and that's why I'm here the stripes and he's behind the bench. You can't go to the visiting bench or home bench and say, well, you know what? This guy didn't like the call, so I'm changing it. You know what? This guy saw at center ice. Actually, he captured it on his cell phone camera. It doesn't work. No. Yeah. You know, coaches get emotional. Do you guys ever think of a hardest call you've ever had to make on the ice? I think the hardest calls I think I have had to make, I think is when we were in playoffs, when any team was in playoffs and it was in overtime. Oh, and you know, it's a penalty and you know that, you know, you know, a banner is on the line and you know, it's going to hurt one team a lot and it's going to help the other team.
Leo Ernewein: I think that, I think that's the hard calls because you know, it's a penalty And you know what? And honestly, a lot of people have said to my dad and I, you call it that penalty in the first period, second period, third period, and you called it in overtime.
Leo Ernewein: What are they whining about? Because it's the same. it's this The kids should know that that's a penalty the first period. It's the same thing in third period in overtime. And I think that's the hardest call for me to make. And I think one of the other hard calls for me to make was whether it was a goal or not.
Leo Ernewein: Because it came out in and out of the net so fast? or Yeah, that I can struggle with those sometimes. I'm going watch it live. i'm like, did that did that go in? yeah but i It's funny. because yeah mean i I think my hardest calls, ones that I think are always the ejection calls.
Leo Ernewein: Yeah. Hit from behind. Is the borderline? is it Is it a boarding or is it a hit from behind? you know those Those are always because you know what happens with any of those calls, they're a suspect.
Leo Ernewein: but bottom line is you always have to put safety first and they're they're the i think they're the hardest calls to make because you know you had to put safety first and it it and it didn't matter. I think the other the other call and then the coaches would always bug them. You you you do an ejection call, hit a hit from behind or i don't know, whatever, a cross check whatever and then two minutes later the kid's back on the ice playing but yeah his player is chucked. yeah right and you know and you know and and i know the rule whatever the
Leo Ernewein: 47 AB or whatever. But he could have got really hurt, right? Like there's rules. They're not, referees aren't doctors. you This is what the call is. Yes. and yeah And I said, that we said that to the coach, like, I'm not a doctor. I don't know how injured the kid is. All I know is he's injured. The rule says if the player is injured, coach comes on the ice, it's a five minute penalty and a game is fun.
Leo Ernewein: There's no, it there's no gray area. Yeah, the ex exactly. It's the same purpose. If you come back two minutes later when your player
Leo Ernewein: back on the ice an hour or a minute later. Yeah, and then go, he's fine, and my guy's got to sit in front of a review board. But that's when you write on your report, though, that the player did come back, because that sometimes saves them. It does. Yes, it does. Sometimes, right? Yeah, when it comes under review. always did that. I always made sure the player did come back. And then the other thing... I see you refereeing, because I'm sure other refs probably didn't. You're right. You're right on there, yes.
Leo Ernewein: The penalty, the fraction caused an injury. Yeah. misconduct or five minutes came to count as given player from Okotos came back two minutes later to play again. Yeah.
Leo Ernewein: Yeah. Kind of shows the severity of yeah of the implement, even though it might have looked terrible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways. Yeah. do you guys have any advice on how to, because we all have bad days or bad calls every now and then, right? Like you said, nobody's, we're not robots.
Leo Ernewein: do you guys have any advice on how to shake off when it's like a bad call and stay focused for the rest of the game? I think just put it to bed. I think basically it's like what happened, happened. I mean, it's, I mean, I've, I've owned, you know, whether it's in basketball or hockey, I've owned that. It's been, that was a bad call or I missed a call or, or,
Leo Ernewein: anything like i just i mean own it and just say hey you guys you know what i missed it i didn't see it i don't know what i was doing at that particular moment or what i was looking at i missed it guys well but then people say well it's right in front you just because it's in front of me doesn't mean i'm looking yeah you just kind have to like take that the next step i was never never in any of my officiating was never afraid to say to the coach yeah i missed it Yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe we screwed up, but I never worried about it.
Leo Ernewein: Yeah, because you probably knew you didn't have to say it often. Yeah. And that kind of, you know, solidified that you you were doing a good job. Yeah, never worried about it. But I mean, a lot of times I say to coaches, yeah, you know what, maybe you're right. Maybe we screwed up. Sorry.
Leo Ernewein: But life goes on. I don't know if you guys saw that because like I know, you Landon, you're a bit of an NFL fan. or but I don't think you're much of an NFL fan, though, are you? There was like i in 2018? Yeah, this was before COVID.
Leo Ernewein: Saints playing the LA Rams in the conference championship. Patriots already made the Super Bowl. So it's either Saints versus Patriots or Patriots versus LA Rams. Right. okay And there was like clock winding down.
Leo Ernewein: Saints throw a pass out towards the sidelines and the guy clocks them before the ball even gets there. There was no call. Yeah. I don't know why I thought about bringing it up, but.
Leo Ernewein: I can't remember where I was even going with this. but No, basically, you're basically saying thats no that they there was no call and probably that official probably got fired after that. Well, i i don't know if they did. Well, who knows? I don't know. That was a while back. To me, are like. Because was Drew Brees throwing the ball. Yeah, it was to me, it was Drew Brees going to be playing against Tom Brady in the Super Bowl. And that's what I've always wanted as a kid.
Leo Ernewein: And to me, it almost seems like the NFL said, we're going to make more money with the newly moved l LA Rams. Cause think they had just moved maybe like two or three years. probably saying worse Yeah. Newly moved LA Rams as you know, we're going to, and they had Sean McVay, right. Who was Jared Goff and Todd Gurley. Like they, they had this sort of LA Hollywood ask, like glimmer glamor kind of team. don't know how I don't know how you put more accountability on referees and and pro sports other than
Leo Ernewein: They have to come to the mic and explain their call. I would love to see a post-game press conference. you know there's not There's no referee in the world. Nobody in the right mind would sign up for that. Unless they were some sort of like tried to like like a public stunt. kind i can't even I can't even see that the NHL Referees Association agreeing to anything like that. Okay, Leo, you have to go explain why... yeah You didn't call that as a penalty, whatever it was. Yeah, I can't either. But you have to explain why you didn't make that call. and And I should specify for the listeners here that I did sound kind of like a hypocrite earlier when I was saying like that Irv and Landon were saying that they not in at least 28 years for Irv had he ever dealt with like threatening family or threatening audience or coach in a basketball game, but in hockey it almost seemed like it happened once a month or something like that.
Leo Ernewein: And then i I went on to say how i loved seeing manager confrontation in the Major League Baseball or stuff like that. And I want to say i want to specify that I love seeing it at the professional level.
Leo Ernewein: Yes. i I shouldn't say love seeing it. I find it entertaining at the professional level. I spit on it when it's at the amateur level because it is no place there. I only i always think about that too. I think it's fun to watch it.
Leo Ernewein: But a lot of times I think what happens is a lot of kids watch that and sends wrong message to them. They see yeah that acting on TV by the the adults. So why can't I do it? Yeah, and they replicate I throw my sticks on the ice or whatever. Yeah.
Leo Ernewein: Yeah, it just kind of kind of goes both ways. It's fun to watch. But at the same time, is it really needed? You're right. It is really needed. and and And there is something to be said about watching professional grown men act like babies and freak out. yeah And then us going, that's hilarious. Oh, look at this. Yeah. But sometimes you can't turn away from a trainer. Right. So, yeah. Yeah. any Anything else you guys want to touch on here?
Leo Ernewein: I can't think of anything. Well, I, other than, yeah, I mean, it it was just, it was fun to wrap. One of the things that I think was very in enjoyable for, for, for us too, is that for Dan and I is that we were always going to the relatively going to the same rink all the time. And so we don't have to take two different vehicles all the time. And, And then it it was easy for, you always knew that every, we did a couple games, we always did it together because it was just easier for dad and I to get there yeah in the same household. So, yeah.
Leo Ernewein: But. Yeah, no, officiating was fun. You know, like hockey, I got into because kids in basketball and volleyball, I got into because teaching in school, officials were hard. They needed somebody who knew, understood the
Leo Ernewein: or whatever and so how do you have a basketball game if you don't have officials, so we you know, a number of us, that's how number of us got into basketball, right? In all the years, right? It was always second nature getting into it. It wasn't getting in because, yeah, I want to be basketball fan. It was like, well, I got to learn the rules so I don't it's mess up. yeahs It's needed and we need to do it. And I think that's, I know you had Darren Anderson on the wall going, and yeah even in the and the Valley for basketball, mean,
Leo Ernewein: Even for football, I mean, there are almost no officials in the Valley. in room at It seems like parents just don't want to step up and and and help out. yeah don't I don't get it. You know, I guess im I don't know. Officiating the Valley is in trouble, whether it's hockey. And if you want your kid to keep playing. Yeah. Yeah. Football, I mean, all the football officials that are up in Canmore, I think, are coming out of Calgary. Or Cochran or wherever they're coming out. There's none in Canmore. Yeah, I don't think that.
Leo Ernewein: At least I don't think there is now. Maybe there's a couple, you know. and But that's the problem. I mean, for all in even in hockey, I think a lot of their officials are coming out town. I don't know how many, I know guys that said a lot of games in minor hockey this year were council because they couldn't get officials it. issue is like somehow the valley has to step up. Yeah. And at one point do parents say, Hey, like we're paying for this and you're just gonna cancel and keep postponing this stuff and you know, cut games or whatever. But people, the funny thing about all that though, is, is the fact that,
Leo Ernewein: Parents aren't getting it because they think, well, well what do you mean there's no officials? Do they think the answer is to throw more money at it? Or do they think the answer is for one of them to volunteer and nobody's taking that? It's just you know it's a babysitting thing. You go to a hockey registration night or whatever and you listen to the parents come play, walk them.
Leo Ernewein: You know, for mid-show hockey in Calum, I think it's $2,000 now a season. Well, you know what? When you're paying somebody coming out of Calgary to come rough your midget hockey game, you know, it's $150 for a roughy. then it's $200 for mileage meals. You've got to pay mileage.
Leo Ernewein: and meals you got pay and and maybe if you have to you might have to pay hotels too so yeah be a five hundred dollars for one rep per week. And so you're wondering why your minor hockey bill is so expensive. Make it cheaper yourself. Yeah. That's a great idea. I honestly can't say that that that's a problem. that That correlates, but it does seem like a match. I can't imagine Cameron Minor Hockey is bursting at the seams with the referees. No, I don' i think you're right. At least not upper level referees. yeah I wanted to ask a question, Dad, to all our listeners. Do you miss hockey?
Leo Ernewein: you know And when I ask that, I'm going to answer my own question too. I do miss a little bit of the ref and hockey. I miss miss skating because i basically my skates are now collecting dust down the street. And they don't get – I should go out on the ice on ponds and things like that. but That was the one thing I missed about reffing was skating.
Leo Ernewein: you you Do you miss refs? I mean, I do to a point. The other stuff that we just talked about, I don't miss. either But ninety eighty percent of it i'm misskating I I think and I miss it more just being with the guys. Yeah. And that too. yeah And yes, skating was good exercise and something. Honestly, no.
Leo Ernewein: I'm I enjoy, far more enjoy doing basketball volleyball. Yeah, and you can still kind of hang out with the guys in other capacity and get your fix that way without having to deal with... But it's far more enjoyable than think it was a fucking... And volleyball. And volleyball in the valley now, right? And I'm not as high up in the echelon with volleyball anymore because I don't want to be there. The higher you go, the more travel you have Yes, exactly. And I just enjoy racking volleyball in the valley. And lot of the kids, it's funny because Len will say this too.
Leo Ernewein: A lot of the kids that we rep volleyball with or basketball with, we see them on the streets or working in different stores and they're all coming up to say hi. Yeah. You know, that's the best part of the game. Yeah. right Well, well and and you know, one of the the other things that I was going to so say about missing rep.
Leo Ernewein: Yeah. It was the, you know, the camaraderie and stuff like that. But one of the things that I, I'm glad that we don't, Like a lot of one thing Leo and to our listeners that with my dad and I, that we missed a lot of family things because we were having so much sports that we can't, we can't get those weekends back. Right. And I mean, we're not going to get into to personal reasons, but.
Leo Ernewein: That's one of the things that dad and I have said. You guys paid your dues. We have. oh for sure And there's a lot of weekends, Saturday nights or just Saturdays period. Either if I'm working, I come home on a Saturday night and I just say to dad, you know what? This is the stuff I miss. Just sitting at home on a Saturday night, watching hockey or just doing some different things. And even, even on Sundays too, you know, we don't have to worry about, know,
Leo Ernewein: going off summer to ref sports on Sundays too, because it was just, yeah, it was just nice. It's just, it was past or due, but I did, there's, there's certain aspects I do miss about it, but there's other things that I don't I wanted to you, we're like, we should, we should probably try to get some training going together sometime. When you go out to the rink, do you bring a stick or you officiate the games?
Leo Ernewein: I'd bring a stick. Yeah. Because I know I had some friends that they didn't. I'm trying to think of, do remember Claude LaVlechelle? He moved to Springbank. Claude who? LaVlechelle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. so He started reffing.
Leo Ernewein: He would have been pretty young. Yeah. I remember he didn't play hockey. He was a figure skater. And and that's why he started reffing instead. but he would, when I would drop in to games with him and stuff like that, sometimes he he just wouldn't bring a stick and he'd go to official at the game. And I was like, sweet, we got a ref. Like nobody can pull this schoolyard bull crap from being like, yeah, I know that's against the rules, but you're not going to stop me. Ha ha scores. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But when I go to a rink or an outdoor rink or whatever,
Leo Ernewein: sticking gloves yeah yeah i think i think for me the biggest regret that i have and or that bothers me the most is is and i look at the guys that refed that are like some of the guys we put in 25 30 years and know the time that we put into the time i put into not only reffing but being a signer stuff like that you know and there's and i don't don't know how to say this but you We've had no thank you.
Leo Ernewein: Yeah. Come back from that. That's true. I have thought of that too. Brutal. once. And you guys put it over like two decades. know How many years we put in and how many, like I said, and I'm, I'm not saying this to be old for me, but I think of, I think of Paul Speedy and I think of of Gary Hogarth and Terry Morgan and all those guys. yeah Yeah. How much time and effort those guys put in to give up family stuff for games and, and receive and they know and announced nothing pretty much nothing. Nothing. literally said Oh, we paid you. That was, yeah that, that, that was our thank you. We got a wage. There were people in the organization,
Leo Ernewein: that like Elsker Fields and some of the signers in Canada who I know on the phone they thanked us a number times but from an association to zero. yeah Yeah, because those people cared. The people that you worked with cared. The people, the higher ups and stuff like that, they they didn't even realize. Even people in the minor hockey system, Canada minor hockey and Banff minor hockey and i don't mean this in a bad way because excuse me there's lots of good people there but that's the I think that's saddest part, right? like For all the people who who put time and effort into their organization to help their kids and give them weekends, you know, zero thanks. It makes you feel like you were completely taken for granted. Yeah. be a done so and that and and i And I think that's partly why i think there' that's another reason why I think there's just no officials in the Valley is because I think
Leo Ernewein: I think that people take officials for granted that they just expect that, Oh, we have a game. Oh, somebody's going to show up. Well, you have to, they do. Yeah. And that, that's the, the mentality of that has to change. And I don't know how you do that. I don't know how you change that. That's the difference in the school system, the school things that we do because they, the principals and the vice principals and the coaches, I don't know how many letters or emails I've gotten from over the past eight or nine years through volleyball. Darren Anderson has too. Thanks for coming to our tournament. Thanks for roughing our – Yeah, because they know how to treat staff.
Leo Ernewein: They know because, I mean, i shouldn teach teachers yeah i know what it means to give up time, right? Yes. They understand the value of time. lot of those other people they don't and so you know tough That's probably why the thing I think the saddest part and the neatest part about roughing one sport to the hockey sport. Interesting. I loved playing. like I had a great time in my early donkey too, but I think I had a lot more fun in the school-involved sports. yeah I don't know why. It just felt like it was...
Leo Ernewein: the competition was still there, but it wasn't end all be all competition. Minor league hockey was who's the best at 10 years old. Who's the best at 11 years old. Who's the best at 13 years old. Talk to me when girls and alcohol are in the picture guys. Yeah. Come on. Yeah. What are we doing here? yeah instead i meana I know what you're saying. You're right. It's true. we all know. I mean, in in school sports, there's cuts and yeah yeah it happens in hockey.
Leo Ernewein: It's like, I'm a counter. Did I make the Adam team? Yeah. Oh, I remember getting bullied as a kid because i like they had a C team. And I was like my first year playing hockey, and I made the C team. And i was like, I didn't expect to make anything better. And then for years, I just played on the C team. And then they had the B and the A team.
Leo Ernewein: And I just wanted to play on the B team with all my friends. One year, and I already knew it was my last year to play in hockey. I decided it was gonna be my last year. didn't want to dry line training or none of that stuff. I was lazy. But I made the A team.
Leo Ernewein: And I was like, oh, this isn't good. i wanted my last year to be with my friends. So I asked the head coach, Ron Soutner, if I could drop down. He didn't like it, but they let me. So I was like, otherwise I quit. remember our are guy that did our house record some of our house privations. His son, he was telling me his son, and got i was on trying whatever happened, but he got moved to a different, name he just balled the whole day. yeah It was, so why does it matter whether you're playing on the 18 or the B team? you're Like literally it, to me, they're like, Oh, a development or social status. over yeah None of that matters. yeah I saw that I made the jump.
Leo Ernewein: I was a better hockey player. I made a jump when I got more physically mature at 13, 14, 15.
Leo Ernewein: A lot of those kids are like that too. Just because they played on the B team or the C team. they're holding yeah None of that literally matters. At all. I chose not to pursue that because I knew I wasn't going to go anywhere with it anyways. no never I think Connery lost in the last second. Oh, let's get an enough update on that. They lost 33-30. Last 10 seconds. Field goal? Was it again? yeah no He's spin on point On points as far as kicking the ball. I feel like that's an underrated job. Yeah. The field goal kickers. Just in any, in in both NFL college and CFL. It's just to me, like we're kind of talking where we talking about. Yeah. We were talking a little bit about baseball. How about a little bit of luck is involved in that job too. like you gotta be lucky to be good. You gotta be good to be lucky.
Leo Ernewein: I think a lot of it too, it's probably preparation as well. Anyways, thanks for having me. Yeah. This reminds me of the, I was fortunate enough when Colton played in Brooks, and I got to a couple of radio. No, cool. did Like interviews and stuff. Yeah. One of the Brooks guys, his guy was going on holidays for,
Leo Ernewein: one of the brooks guys they written hip his guy was going in the hall these for I don't know, four or five games. So got that going already for four or five years. So this kind reminds you of what I'm saying. Yeah. Anyways, thanks. Thank you. Thanks taking the time to sit down with us. You're welcome. Give us a peek behind the curtain of a lifetime in officiating. All right. I'll let you guys go on. Appreciate it.
Leo Ernewein: it's been a privilege having you on the show landon that kind of wraps up uh historic episode 26 for us live from beautiful banff alberta landon any final shout outs or parting words for the listeners before we shut it down here boss well just i i know my dad just signed off but i just want to say the bath yeah you had to go to the bathroom but uh just a huge thank you to my dad for for i told him this well last night basically yeah you're coming in front too hey man it be in Kenmore? Yeah. Recorded person. Yeah. So I just, you know, I just want for the listeners, we've been talking about having my dad on, you and I, I'll be talking about having my dad on a few times.
Leo Ernewein: And I think this, I think this will be a great episode for a lot of people to listen to and just have a, another voice. Not that people are not going to be tired of listening. I don't think they're board of us yet. I don't think so. Yeah. Knock on wood though. No, knock on wood. But, uh, no, just a huge thank you to dad. And, you know, and, And I want to say thank you to him for, you know, getting me into officiating. I know I've said this to him lots over the years, but I wouldn't have been a ref if it wasn't for him. So I didn't thank him. wouldn't have had games. I wouldn't have been no so involved with, I wouldn't have had this podcast essentially. Yeah. Because that I, for the love of sports and stuff like that, if it were for you guys, we're off officiating those games too. Yeah. so
Leo Ernewein: you i don't I don't really have any shout-out for a particular person, but I think i know we don't know people, but I think with with what's been going on with the fires in BC and in Spokane, I think we need to do a little shout-out to those people, even though whether they're listening to us or not, I think we need to do a shout-out to those people because you and I right now are sitting here in peaceful Banff,
Leo Ernewein: no worries about fires or anything like that or losing our homes, even though we're, you know, we have lots of other life situations that are being thrown at us, but we're sitting here peacefully doing our podcast. There's people who are totally displaced from their homes, lost their homes. I have no idea if they're even going to be able to go back home or what they're going to go to. It is scary stuff. So I think we need to do a, I'm going to do a little shout to those people uh,
Leo Ernewein: you know, let them know that I'm thinking about them. So that's my shout out. Shout out BC. Shout out Spokane. We love you all. Shout out to all our listeners. We appreciate everyone. We do. We really do for, uh, for just taking the time out of your day to listen to two guys.
Leo Ernewein: Chatter up. Yeah, exactly. All right, guys, that's the, that's a wrap for episode 26. You heard the man. We'll see y'all next week for episode 27 pizza. Have a good one guys.
