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Ep 1 • Naked Pull-Ups?! An Inside Look at Northwestern Football
738 Plays1 year ago
Hazing? Racism? Did Fitz know? Two former Northwestern football student equipment managers are here to share a behind-the-scenes look at the scandal that rocked college athletics.
The Daily Northwestern – https://dailynorthwestern.com/2023/07/08/sports/former-nu-football-player-details-hazing-allegations-after-coach-suspension/
Mike Hankwitz Letter Pt 1 and Pt 2- https://twitter.com/MikeHankwitz/status/1686899572671389696
https://twitter.com/MikeHankwitz/status/1686899997650931713
Mike Freeman Article About “White Nationalism” – https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/mike-freeman/2023/07/11/northwestern-football-scandal-hazing-pat-fitzgerald-racism/70399332007/
Allegation of Segregation –https://dailynorthwestern.com/2023/07/10/campus/former-nu-players-describe-racist-environment-in-football-program/
The Athletic – https://theathletic.com/4704621/2023/07/20/northwestern-football-hazing-traditions-allegations/
Pull-ups Allegation – https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigten/2023/07/20/northwestern-associate-head-coach-football-matt-macpherson-witnessed-hazing/70441175007/
AD Derrick Gragg Statement on ‘Cats Against the World 51’ Tee Shirt – https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10085656-northwestern-ad-calls-cats-against-the-world-cfb-shirts-worn-by-coaches-tone-deaf.amp.html
You can get in touch with us by following us on Instagram, TikTok and Twitter @TakeItToGoPod or by emailing us at [email protected]
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Take It To Go' Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Hi, I'm Kiara. And I'm Lina. And you're listening to Take It To Go, a one stop shop podcast about all things life, love, and lol worthy. Each episode will dig into topics and tea that are so piping hot, you're going to want to listen to us on the go wherever you go.
Podcast Origin at Northwestern University
00:00:21
Speaker
So our first topic of this podcast is definitely going to be how this came to be. Um,
00:00:30
Speaker
And really, it all began in college. So Kiara, why don't you tell us where you went to college and how you met? We went to Northwestern University, a small little school in Evanston, Illinois that has
00:00:43
Speaker
not been in the news at all. It is not in any way recognizable name, just small school. No one's ever heard about it or spoken about it before. Yeah, nobody knows anything. There's no big topic in national news and turn around the football team, which is kind of what yeah, the football team that we definitely didn't work for together as student equipment managers. Yeah, so definitely didn't happen.
Purpose and Audience of the Podcast
00:01:08
Speaker
But yes, we are a podcast about fun things and important things. And I mean, it's in our tagline, not so important things, but just not so important things to things that pique our interest, things that make us, you know, want to have long hour long conversations. And we decided instead of talking to each other on our morning commutes, or after work, we do it in a more public setting so that you guys can join along.
00:01:38
Speaker
So whether you're playing us in the car, while you're cleaning your house and just having background noise, we are so happy that you're joining us today. Or if you're like me and live in New York City on the train or while you're walking in our wonderfully dirty, very dirty city.
00:01:57
Speaker
What are we not, Lina? We are not a sports podcast. Yeah, we're
Podcast Focus and Social Media Engagement
00:02:02
Speaker
not. We had originally made this, what was it called? The Visiting Locker Room? The Visiting Locker Room. That was our name. And I was like, Kiara? It's too sports orientated. They're going to think that we're going to start breaking down the NBA NFL. No, we're not. Defensive personnel, absolutely not. Although we should trademark that if we're going to be putting this in a podcast. We're giving out our best ideas for free.
00:02:26
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Well, the name is already taken on all platforms, so good luck. That's true. We've already claimed it. We've claimed it. And if not, I'm going to go back and make sure I've already done. But you can buy it off of us. If you want it, pay us. You have our email, contact us on our socials and put up the right amount and we might do it.
00:02:46
Speaker
at Take It To Go Pod, follow us on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, or email us at TakeItToGoPod at gmail.com. Exactly. We're not a sports podcast, but we did meet because of athletics. Yeah. Specifically football. Football. American football.
Lina's Journey as a Student Equipment Manager
00:03:13
Speaker
I'm actually trying to remember how did you, I don't remember how you became a student manager. So I was a freshman. It was my freshman year and I had talked to my good friend Natalie and I was like, girl, I need a job. And as you know, Northwestern's not in Chicago. It is in a small suburb north of Chicago. So we have a small downtown area with the Target and a couple restaurants. And I was talking to her about
00:03:42
Speaker
going to one of those, getting a job there, but I wanted something that had a better work-life balance for like schoolwork and somebody that would care about my academic schedule. Yeah, Northwestern Athletics is known for great work-life balance. Yes. First mistake. But honestly, no, it does have its benefits there.
00:04:07
Speaker
My friend, she came back to me and she was like, hey, this guy that I'm talking to, you know who he is. He was a student manager. She was like, hey, he's an equipment manager for the football team. I saw that they had a flyer out on my building because they're looking for more managers and I think that this would be an awesome job for you. And I told her flat out, no. I did not know anything about football.
00:04:33
Speaker
And the last thing I wanted to do was be around 120 sweaty men and their staff all day long. But three months later, I was kind of failing at my job search. I couldn't find any place that had a good balance with work, with academics. And I decided I would go apply. So come October 22nd, I believe it was my first day of work at the equipment.
00:05:00
Speaker
What do we call it? The equipment room? EQ. And I met Kiara because she was assigned to train me. I was? You were? It wasn't easy.
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I guess I was assigned to train you because I was there for three seasons.
Perks and Challenges of Being a Student Manager
00:05:24
Speaker
And yeah, that was my fourth season. I was probably the senior most person there. Yes, yes, you were. Yeah, I became a student manager because also a friend, my friend, Emily, just sent me a posting that we saw in one of our Northwestern Facebook groups. And they were advertising
00:05:42
Speaker
manager jobs. Unlike you, I actually really like football though. So I was like, okay, I would love to exactly you do now. But I was like, okay, that's kind of cool. I previously did kind of work for the football team in a capacity. It was mainly for the big 10 network.
00:05:59
Speaker
And I would just stand on the sidelines and coil cables behind the camera guys. We would run out onto the field whenever they would introduce a team or professors. And it was very boring. I didn't like it. And I only did that for like two weeks before I was like, this is not for me. And then at the end of my, I think it was my freshman year, end of my freshman year, I just showed up after seeing the listing. I contacted our
00:06:28
Speaker
our OG curt dog, and was like, hey, can I, or maybe it was like, Zach? I can't remember. I contacted one of them. I was like, hey, I'm interested in this thing. I'd love to join. They told me to show up. I showed up, took the bus to Ryan Field, and they were like, okay, show up in July at the Hilton, Orrington Hotel, and you'll get to be a student manager. Wait, why a hotel? Because the dorms weren't open yet.
00:06:57
Speaker
Oh, because it was summer. Okay, summer camp. That's the hookup with being a student manager is that you get to stay in a bunch of hotels, which is pretty sweet and get paid to do it at least at Northwestern.
Hazing Allegations at Northwestern University
00:07:10
Speaker
So what was your tenure from what year to what year?
00:07:14
Speaker
Technically, tenure was 2016 to 2019, but I did all of the 2016 season, 2017, 2018, and 2019 because I graduated in December 2019, which is great because had I not fooled around for the first two years and ended up being behind all my classes to graduate, I never would have been there for that fall quarter when we met.
00:07:41
Speaker
Right. And honestly, it was the best thing that could have happened to us. It's true. My tenure was from fall 2019 to I think winter 2022. And I graduated shortly thereafter, but it was honestly the best time of my life. It gave me so much diligence because waking up in the morning, going to those practices, you know, eating lunch before the sun rises.
00:08:11
Speaker
You just are not lunch with breakfast, sorry, eating breakfast before the sun rises, going to lunch with the team, like just feeling like you're a part of a group that's bigger than yourself is something that is so rare, especially in a college when you know, I was away from home and from Tennessee. So it's just going.
00:08:31
Speaker
and doing that consistently every day, feeling like you're a student athlete, at least having their schedule, but then still being considered like a staff member and a regular student was real. We're still Narps. Yeah, we're still Narps, none of the regular people. But cool Narps, you know what I mean? Yeah, I know, we were the cool ones. And I remember very vividly, I used to feel somewhat out of place. Not that anybody on the team had made me feel this way, but I went to a party
00:09:02
Speaker
Um, and I believe, I don't know if it was with you or if it was after you had left. Um, but I was talking to some players who were at the party and I was like, yeah, like, you know, we're just not. A part of the team, really. And one of them stopped me. He goes, no, you're just as much a part of the team as any one of us. Oh, that's so sweet. I almost cried in the middle of some random guy's house. And that's just what.
00:09:32
Speaker
I guess the culture of Northwestern football is it really truly is a family. And so it is heartbreaking to hear the news of what is going on right now. Yeah, it really is. I mean, just to even speak further to the family environment.
00:09:49
Speaker
just to lay out what the experience is like for a student manager. For those who don't know what a student manager is, you work with the equipment room to help set up practices, break them down. You go travel to all the games. If you're like a good student manager and come on time and do your job, you get rewarded with travel. And you
00:10:08
Speaker
support the coaching staff, you support the training staff, you support the players, you're in and out of the locker room constantly, if you're a guy. And, you know, we help move things, pack things, decal helmets, change, like, jerseys on shoulder pads before games, like, yes, suit managers do a ton, absolutely a ton. And, you know, in doing all those things, you end up creating so many relationships with so many different people.
00:10:37
Speaker
not just the players because you're of course with them during practice and during games and as peers in the classroom, but then also the coaching staff. So for example, like it was not uncommon for me to go spend Thanksgiving with different coaches and their families. I was only like one position coach that I was assigned to and I ended up becoming really close to him. And I probably should reach out to him and say hi because I haven't spoken to him in
00:11:04
Speaker
I don't know, since New Year's or something. But that's the culture of Northwestern. I graduated in 2019, and I still reach out to the position coach that I worked with and say, hey, tell your wife and your daughters that I said hi. Happy New Year. Happy birthday. It definitely was that kind of close family environment. When you are spending Christmases with people, I spent Christmas
00:11:28
Speaker
at a Dave and Busters in Tennessee because we were at the Music City Bowl. I was there at my co-workers, not with my family. I spent Thanksgiving working. So it feels almost inevitable that you end up becoming really close to people when you are spending the most important times of the year together. So we're not a sports podcast, but why are we talking about Northwestern? This is our Why Northwestern.
00:11:58
Speaker
We are talking about Northwestern because this school has been embroiled in controversy for the last month or so. It's been wild for Northwestern athletics and the greater NU community. And that's kind of wild because this whole scandal started actually back in November 2022. It did, it did. I have up in front of me an excellent recap article from Inside NU and we'll
00:12:28
Speaker
We'll link to it in the show notes, but on November 30th, 2022, just days after Northwestern's abysmal 2022 season ended with a one in 11 record, but their only win being in Ireland. Not even on American soil? Not even on American soil. Lina, wait, were you in Ireland? No, I wasn't. I graduated and I wasn't allowed to go. Oh, I'm going to cut that out.
00:12:58
Speaker
That's fine. I thought you were there. No, you put it in. Put it in, honestly. Let the world know that I was cheated. You were cheated out of going to Ireland. I was. After your loyal dedication as a student. Over COVID, I risked my health. I took all the notes. Your life. Tests.
00:13:18
Speaker
got falsely accused of having COVID multiple times and had to go into isolation. And then they found out that it was fake. And, uh, yeah, I should have gone to Ireland, but that's another story. We'll save it for another episode, but let's see. Oh, okay. It's not, it does technically date back to January to November, but I'm going to try to start in January because I want to follow the timeline of us filing, finding this out in real time.
00:13:48
Speaker
instead of just what actually happened IRL behind the scenes. In January, it was reported by Adam Rindberg in ESPN that Northwestern was investigating a hazing allegation within the football program. They came out with a statement. They said, while we do not know yet whether the allegations are true, hazing is prohibited by university policy and we take these claims very, very seriously.
00:14:16
Speaker
As someone who went to Northwestern and as we discussed worked for the football team, I had no idea what the allegations were at the time. It didn't even occur to me that there was hazing in the program. I never saw anything at that time over those four seasons that looked like hazing to me. What about you?
00:14:38
Speaker
No, I never saw anything either, and I never heard the word hazing, so it was very surprising to me. And honestly, when I first heard about these allegations, I didn't know what it could possibly be about. I don't know if you had the same reaction to all of this, but I was like, whoa, what's been happening? Is there something I don't know about? So when I heard the topic, it kind of made me do a double take. Absolutely.
00:15:08
Speaker
I'm pretty sure I told you what it was. The college football world found out about the details of the investigation in July when that article came out in the Daily, but I actually first heard about the specific nature of the allegations just shortly after this article came out in ESPN. And I was texting one of my friends, like, I do not have any new sources really anymore, but I did at the time have someone who gave me some details
00:15:37
Speaker
and let me know that there was a player who had an issue with, quote, running or runs giving or runs miss. And as soon as I heard that from him, I was like, light bulb goes off in my head. Oh my gosh, this is actually really bad because this can be framed as sexual assault or sexual harassment. And it was. And I believe I told you shortly thereafter, right?
00:16:05
Speaker
I think you were the first person I heard it from, but then obviously I had just left the program a year prior. Actually, back in November 2022, people within the program had heard about the accusation of hazing, the initial accusation that was given.
00:16:29
Speaker
I don't think any of us or anyone that I personally knew that was around the team thought that it would get to this level. Absolutely. So just for those who don't know, the Daily Northwestern, which is the student newspaper at Northwestern, did a really in-depth article after it came out that after the university conducted an investigation and
00:16:56
Speaker
Fitz, Coach Fitz was suspended for two weeks in the middle of summer in July. The Daily Northwestern was able to get in contact with a couple of former players who documented their experiences. And while they didn't go on the record in this article, they spoke about a practice that was called running. And running is essentially dry humping. It sounds
00:17:21
Speaker
So silly to say that this was a practice, that this was something that was commonplace, and yet it was part of what happened pretty frequently at Northwestern. Or at least I can't speak to the frequency, but in the four years or four seasons, excuse me, that I was there, it happened multiple times. So much so that they had a name for it, like a holiday.
00:17:44
Speaker
right and i honestly do after reflecting on that i think it's because these are young guys um and then of course we are young women who are coming in and being around this program and i think it's just not knowing what goes on in other programs so you really don't have a basis of comparison so something that seemed like horseplay or innocence
00:18:10
Speaker
actually was something pretty serious. And I can speak for myself. I don't believe I can speak for everybody in the situation, but that's why it took me by surprise because I never viewed this under the lens of hazing.
Cultural Aspects and Impact of Hazing
00:18:27
Speaker
Absolutely. So pulling again from the daily article, after receiving the hazing reports, Northwestern hired an independent law firm
00:18:36
Speaker
to investigate the claims and the lead investigator, Maggie Hickey, interviewed coaches, staff, and current and former players, reviewed thousands of documents, and according to the release, Hickey said that while current and former players varied on their perspective regarding the conduct, the whistleblower's claims were largely supported by evidence. And that's kind of like what you were basically just saying, is that
00:19:00
Speaker
Basically at the time, like I did not, especially because like you said, we were not in the locker room, we didn't see it. It never occurred to me that this was something people thought was abusive because every time I heard people talking about it, they were laughing pretty much. Right, right. The nature surrounding it was it seemed like a joke or lighthearted or the whole boys will be boys scenario. And I think you're right, just because we as females weren't allowed in the locker room when the guys were in there, like obviously,
00:19:30
Speaker
But we never got that first hand look to see it. So it's like, I feel like if I had seen it, I might have questioned it a bit more. But hearing about it on the outside, it was never presented in a way that sounded harmful and especially
00:19:49
Speaker
under the lens of abuse either like I never thought that anybody was coming out of it feeling I guess taken advantage of or forced or coerced into it you know so it really just saddens me now I think to learn
00:20:08
Speaker
that not only was the whistleblower affected by this, but also other men who have stepped up, who were in the program in the past, who have been largely negatively impacted by it. But I just want to see what else comes out of this case because it has developed so much since November. And I know that myself and Kiara, we both have been in the program for a long time prior to these allegations coming out.
00:20:38
Speaker
Everybody has their own perspective, like they mentioned. They do. You know, just to quote one of these former players from the Daily Northwestern article again, they said it's done under this smoke and mirror of, oh, this is team bonding, but no, this is sexual abuse. And I feel like I had a blind spot at the time for what these guys were actually going through and what people were experiencing. And obviously I
00:21:07
Speaker
wasn't hazing anybody and I didn't see anything. But I question and wonder if I knew someone actually felt like they were being abused and they came to me, I don't even know how to respond in a situation like that because here am I, a student manager.
00:21:28
Speaker
what am I going to like go up against a practice that has been happening for decades at Northwestern that people have perhaps like even like their allegations and reports that coaches have visibility into it's just a really unfortunate way that something can penetrate
00:21:46
Speaker
Gosh, that's not the right word It's just not the right word but it just the way that something can like penetrate a culture become pervasive It's really unfortunate especially when you look at other reports another journalist I'm forgetting her name right now did an article about
00:22:12
Speaker
wrote an article in The Athletic and documented these practices that sort of stem from something that happened dating back to either the late 90s or early 2000s because of something called car washing, which was also referenced in the Daily Northwestern article. And gosh, I encourage people to look up all the details for themselves because they are quite graphic, but allegedly players would stand on
00:22:40
Speaker
naked, essentially, at the entrance of showers and spin around and force people who wanted to go in the shower to walk through them. The players reported that this was a really painful experience to go through. And again, like Lena said, we're women. We're not in the showers, in the locker rooms, as these guys are nude. And so I wish I would have known that people felt this way. Right. I do too.
00:23:14
Speaker
likelihood that these guys would even step forward and tell you or me or any other female in this space is so rare. And then also like the fact that they probably wouldn't even tell their guys. I mean the dialogue around sexual abuse specifically amongst men is it's just not accepted in America and it's not accepted really anywhere and it's really hard to get the resources and the courage even to just
00:23:36
Speaker
I think I've said it, but to you before.
00:23:41
Speaker
or have a support group that actually cares enough to help you do something about it. And just like we see with the whistleblower now, they're not in the media.
00:23:52
Speaker
like their face is nowhere in these papers. Their name is nowhere in these papers. And I think that just kind of speaks volumes to the culture that we have around sexual abuse and how silent it is, especially amongst young men. I mean, these guys have a faith. Yeah, and I want to give a lot of credit to Lloyd Yates, Tom Carnafax, Simba Short, Warren Long. Three of them were there when I was a student manager. One of them, I think,
00:24:22
Speaker
maybe was there a year before, but to come out and put your name on something takes a lot of guts. It's really hard. If you go on social media, you can see they have opened themselves up to a lot of criticism.
Defending Coach Fitz's Character
00:24:34
Speaker
But this was a practice that needed to be rooted out. And they did that. And hopefully, I mean, it's to be determined how the university ends up implementing various measures that they
00:24:49
Speaker
plan on implementing like a locker room monitor or more opportunities to report hazing anonymously but kudos to them for going on the record and saying hey this thing happened and I know people are coming out and defending people because of you know their character because they like this coach because he's such a good guy because he had such a profound impact on them and yet still nevertheless this thing happened it was real it affected me it hurt me and it
00:25:18
Speaker
In some cases, it had a profound impact on the person that they are today. I think Lloyd said that he doesn't even like football anymore. And this is someone who I think was either a triple or quadruple legacy at Northwestern. He comes here probably expecting this incredible experience as a student athlete, probably an incredibly proud moment for his family. And that's the memory he has.
00:25:43
Speaker
Right. Right. And so just to speak on the point that you made with Fitz's character, there have been a lot of people coming forward who are more recently in the program who have
00:25:59
Speaker
I've tried to stand by him and support him amongst all of these allegations and one such person is the old defensive coordinator. Probably be best in the country. Shout out to Mike Hankwitz. Shout out Coach Hank. His statement was good and honestly, I don't want to commit myself to taking sides in this. I don't think that this is an issue of taking sides because obviously
00:26:25
Speaker
There are young men who were impacted and I believe that their voices and their experiences are valid. At the same time, you know, I have worked closely with Fitzgerald as well. Well, not closely, I would say, but, you know, he was in the sphere. He was in the area. And I do know that my experience with him has always been positive. So I don't know. It's the issue of character, right? Because you see a person who
00:26:55
Speaker
seems very humble, you know, who has always held himself with some sort of, I guess, moral compass. He was held in very high esteem within the program and within the media. Right, right, right. And I think that that connection to between the students, the players and the coaching staff is something that has been
00:27:19
Speaker
told a lot in the news media and like the outlet and especially by coach Hank who released a statement just because you know he mentioned Fitz was always open door policy and like that's so true 100% like I know when I was there all my years there and
00:27:36
Speaker
Anytime he wanted to speak to Fitz, he was open and available. And that wasn't necessarily even just to the players, but I feel like any one of the student equipment staff could have come up to him, any one of the trainers could have come to him. There was just no really big reason for us to do so, just because we had our own levels of management. But I never felt like he was so far removed that he was untouchable.
00:28:00
Speaker
Absolutely. I remember my first day as a student manager, I started at the same time as another, he was an incoming freshman. And I think it might have been like the first or second day but Fitz walked into the locker, into the equipment room and I was like kind of like nervous, starstruck, starstruck like, Oh my gosh, there's Fitz. And he just was like super like, we know who we're talking about. He was just super energetic and really vocal and just walked up to him because he had a huge passion for football, wanted to work
00:28:29
Speaker
For the football team, as a manager and eventually as a coach, he just goes straight up to Fitz and introduces himself. He shakes his hand and goes, hey, coach, I'm Eddie. To me, it speaks to how accessible he was as a person, that he would even know a student manager's name. And he remembers your names too. When you travel on the road and meet with other student managers,
00:28:52
Speaker
You do not exist in their programs from what I've heard across the Big Ten. And we've heard people share stories about coaches that particularly had coaches that were less than friendly and cordial. And Fitz was. That really stood out to me, is how much of a regular person you seem like. Obviously, he's a deity at Northwestern.
00:29:17
Speaker
But he still, in many ways, like you said, was pretty accessible. I could have walked up to him and had a conversation with him if I wanted to, if I felt compelled to, in a way that I probably would not feel comfortable doing if I was at Ohio State. Right. I've done so.
00:29:35
Speaker
a couple of times just like at practices maybe if I'm standing there if I'm passing balls to a certain coach for a drill or whatever and Fitz comes up he's just standing there I'm like hey what's going on hey how are you you know and he would always make sure to acknowledge you if you spoke to him I think that that was and then even if you didn't speak to him let's say because he wasn't just the type that was speak when spoken to he would make an effort to approach you to say good morning and always I remember the best thing about him was that towards student managers specifically
00:30:04
Speaker
he would be so thankful to us for all of the work that we put in because we're there before the team gets there and after the team leaves. And a lot of the work that we do is so influential to just the functioning of the team themselves, you know, because like Kiara said, we're there for practices and games.
00:30:21
Speaker
And he really took his time to recognize that and recognize us. And I mean, I know he had bought us so many lunches, especially around the season where, you know, we had been there for weeks and weeks and just every day and then out of the equipment room. And it seems like hours, you know, you're staying up after hours to do laundry for the team. I was sewing for the team as well. So like some guys would have to have holes sewn up in their jerseys or like their nameplates changed. And I was on that task.
00:30:50
Speaker
I just remember Fitz would be like, hey, thank you all so much for everything you do. Here's Chick-fil-A on me. We already had good food at the facility, but he just made sure to make things extra special for us as well. I might have missed the Fitz Chick-fil-A. I might not have been there for that one. Sounds like his character.
00:31:11
Speaker
Yeah, I like, honestly, even regardless of if he gave you anything or not. I mean, it was always just his thinks that was so special to receive because he made you feel acknowledged and seen. Sure. Even literally during senior day and senior week, like
00:31:27
Speaker
he would say he would rattle off a name of the senior student managers, video staff members, athletic trainers and give us recognition at a time when like only the players are getting to walk out on the field with their families for a senior day and obviously like not saying that we should be getting that recognition but like the fact that he doesn't have to say our name in a press conference and acknowledge that we exist and that he did do that
00:31:52
Speaker
It felt like really meaningful and impactful to me. Another story, I don't know if I've ever told you this, but when we had this almost like gala or some sort of dinner to celebrate athletics for seniors, I can't remember, I think it was called like the end club something. You ended up going to it a few years ago. Oh, the end spirit club or something like that. Something like that. And when I
00:32:20
Speaker
At some point they end up like, it's like this big dinner and they call you down and your families are there and athletic staff members there and I guess maybe boosters and all these other sorts of people. And you get your name called out and then you go take a photo with your coach.
00:32:38
Speaker
Now I was there as the only senior who was there and there was like another girl who I think worked in athletic training but like maybe for like volleyball or a separate sport entirely and they called out the like actual players names and they went to take a picture with Fitz
00:32:56
Speaker
and Fitz saw us off to the side and realized like, oh, they didn't call their names out. They didn't like give them a chance to take a photo with them. And so he called me and this girl who like literally did not even work for football at all to take a photo with him. And I still have that photo. And I felt really special in that moment. Obviously, like, it's just a picture, whatever.
00:33:19
Speaker
It did like those like small things to make you feel Recognized like I think they they do resonate with people and I think it speaks to why so many people came out spoke about Fitz's character because That is true.
Complexities in Recognizing Hazing Practices
00:33:35
Speaker
Like he is salt of the earth He is a really good guy and these other things like did happen
00:33:43
Speaker
Some of them. I don't know. And you know, I think so. I think that this is such a two fold argument because I've seen a lot in the media, right? People are calling out saying, well, OK, he's a good person. He has a good character. What does that have to do with hazing? Because he might have still known that it was taking place. Yada yada. Like just because you're a good guy doesn't mean that you couldn't have let this stuff slide. So I just want to address that too, because I think that the character part should come with
00:34:11
Speaker
also protecting him against the allegations of racism. And I think that it's so important for us to put our own opinions out there, like Kiara and I specifically, because we are black women. I don't know, you know, to some people I might not look black, but I'm black. And also, so black females in a predominantly male environment. And we worked very closely with the team. We were right there, like she said, we were assigned to coaches at practices games
00:34:41
Speaker
et cetera, et cetera. And I think that it's important for us to put our opinion out there. And I know I want to say it like I've never experienced racism from this man and I've never seen it directed at a player.
00:34:58
Speaker
same openly because like obviously we can't speak for things that happen privately and other people's opinions and their stories because it's theirs to have but I personally have never seen it directed at anybody I've never seen a black player pull off the field for a certain hairstyle I've never seen I've not really seen him say anything that was so
00:35:20
Speaker
surprising or out of pocket where I felt surprised or endangered as a Black female in an area. Like, you know, so I don't know. That's just something that I want to put out there, just since we have such a close tie to this team. I saw this article written by Mike Freeman, who thankfully, and I'm proud to say has blocked me on Twitter. And he was like, there's like a white supremacist culture. And
00:35:47
Speaker
white nationalist culture, I think is what he exactly said. And I'm like, bro, you weren't, you were not even there to like read whatever reports have been reported and say this is white nationalist culture. And to see that from like an inside perspective and say like what he's saying, I was part of a white nationalist culture. Like if I would, I would never
00:36:07
Speaker
be part of that. If that was something that I saw, I wouldn't choose to spend four years there making minimum wage doing that job. No, no. And is this the guy that said something about how Fitz would always say this is good old fashioned American football? Oh my gosh. Yeah. Good clean American fun. Good clean American fun. Okay. Yes.
00:36:32
Speaker
That's interesting to me because how do you, I don't know, just good, clean American fun. It's football. Football is an American sport. That's what he meant by it. No other country really has leagues like we do. They don't focus on American football. Let alone at college, there's a whole different culture around
00:36:50
Speaker
collegiate athletics here in the U.S. Right, right. And especially in the South, you know, SEC shout out to you. Big 10 is still big as well. So it's like you have so many people that are watching, so many people that are so invested in it. And Fitz played football himself at Northwestern. So I didn't see that as as an issue, especially when I was hearing it from his mouth going through the program. Right. To me, like I I know some people and this is like kind of a tangent that some people like don't feel
00:37:21
Speaker
Wait.
00:37:21
Speaker
that the label American encompasses them. And I understand why people feel that way. Me, like I am, this is like, it shouldn't be a hot take to say or controversial, but like I am actually proud to be an American. And I never heard good, clean American fun. I thought this does not include me. In fact, like the entire team used to chant it, like the black players and the white players alike and other ethnic backgrounds.
00:37:51
Speaker
So it never felt exclusionary to me that people would say that. I think there are probably episodes of the foundation, which was Northwestern's little behind the scenes TV show that they had.
00:38:04
Speaker
I don't know if they still make it anymore. But I feel like I remember an episode that ended with all the players chanted like, let's go have some good clean American fun after a win. Now, obviously, like, you're gonna have to do some digging to find it because it was after a win and Northwestern hasn't really done much winning over the last few years. But that was the thing that happened. And I feel like I didn't see anybody who looked traumatized by the concept of having good clean American fun.
Authority and Responsibility in Hazing Incidents
00:38:32
Speaker
Like, no.
00:38:33
Speaker
It just wasn't even that big of a deal. Like if I'm not even mistaken, like I'm pretty sure they trademarked it because they thought there's some value behind that. And to like, in retrospect, to see that being framed as negative is like actually kind of wild. One of the most insane things I saw was someone said, well, you know, the black players were all on defense and the white players were all on offense. And I'm looking at that, like, have you seen our roster lately? Like if you look at our players who are in the NFL,
00:39:04
Speaker
defensive players. We have Joe Gaziano, who last time I checked is white. He's in the NFL. Dean Lowry, white. Tyler Lancaster, white. That's just like three guys only on the D line. Northwestern football, like for people who are
00:39:19
Speaker
variant of football, you will appreciate the gravity of this. Northwestern had a white safety on defense. White safeties are almost completely unheard of. It's just not a thing that happens in college football, much less professional football. And then on the offensive side, like Justin Jackson was
00:39:40
Speaker
is an icon at Northwestern. Justin Jackson, the ball carrier is what people call him even today in the NFL because he was so impactful on offense. I don't want to tokenize guys by running down the roster and saying, look, here's a black guy on offense. He has a white guy on defense. But the idea that Northwestern was segregated by race based on offense and defense, it doesn't stand up to any level of scrutiny for someone who has paid attention to Northwestern.
00:40:09
Speaker
at all, pretty much. Right, over all of these years and over all the players that have come through the program, that's just a very shallow way of looking at things. Yeah, really is.
00:40:20
Speaker
So I do have, back to Hank Wits, I do have his statement here in front of me and just on account of the racist allegations that were directed at Fitz, I did want to read something that he said. So according to Hanks, and I quote, it is sad to see people accuse Pat of being racist or that hardcore widespread racism existed in the program based primarily on two allegations.
00:40:45
Speaker
It has been alleged that a black player and or black staff member was forced to cut his hair while a white player was not. He said, I do not recall that ever happening, nor do my fellow staff members. And I can see no evidence of that in the many photos that I have viewed from my time there. Yes, there was a hair policy that Pat initially carried over from Coach Walker that said hair could not hang out of the helmet, but it did not say they could not have dreadlocks specifically.
00:41:14
Speaker
The policy applied to players of all races was fairly and equally enforced and was only in effect during the early part of Pat's tenure because Pat changed the rule based on conversations with and feedback from the players. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I think he knows it. You can look at the roster yourself over the last X amount of years and see
00:41:40
Speaker
white players with long hair and black players with long hair, black players with their hair dyed. It was a way that people were- Treadlocks, braids. Yeah, people were allowed to express themselves that way. And I think it does speak to, regardless of what actually happened by various players and what they did to one another, it speaks to how accessible Fitz was and that he was someone who did take feedback from people. He absolutely did.
00:42:09
Speaker
He took it and he put it into action. And I think that was a great part about him. And that's something that I could definitely respect about him as a coach. I mean, honestly, the hazing allegations, they could be up in the air, right? You can argue one way or the other. You don't really know what a person truly knew in that moment. But I can say from my personal experience, and as I said, I know we've mentioned this before, these are
00:42:37
Speaker
purely our opinions, our experiences from being in the program, but racist is just not a word that I would apply to coach Fitzgerald. No, absolutely not. And again, what makes this so difficult is that people have such different perspectives on what is and is not hazing. And even in the conversations that I have today with people who worked there at Northwestern, like
00:43:02
Speaker
They will say, okay, it happened. It wasn't a big deal. And I'm sure there are players on that team who think this is such a nothing burger. You have no idea how small and inconsequential this was to us as a team, as a locker room, how often we did it. And yet.
00:43:19
Speaker
there are players that we know definitively had such a negative experience that they had to file reports. And we're not here to invalidate anyone else's experience, but I think we have a unique position, as you said, as a student manager because we're not the people who are being accused of hazing, which are the players, and we are not the people who are accused of like, we're not the coaches who were accused of like,
00:43:48
Speaker
participating in it, right? And so I think that gives us a unique perspective and a unique position where we can be honest about what we saw, like we weren't accused of doing anything. This is just our opinions, our experiences, it has nothing to do with what anybody else is saying. It's just, hey, you know, as Kira said, she's been there since 2016 to 2019. I took over, she passed the baton.
00:44:12
Speaker
And that was 2019 to 2022. So that's a pretty good chunk of time that both of us have been able to be around the teams and then also have our own perspectives on what's happening because there was such a large time where we weren't there with each other. So we never had the chance to really speak to one another about things or experience them together. So it's a nice control group experiment to see
00:44:41
Speaker
what it is that we, what we saw, what we did in those times. I'll read some of Hankowitz's opinions on hazing, if that's okay with you.
00:44:51
Speaker
No, it's not okay with me, actually. Oh, thank you, Ara. Do it for the people. Let's just end the podcast right now. I'm not cool with it. Yeah, you're done. So a couple of statements. This one might be a little bit long, but I tried to highlight the most important parts from this one. Again, according to Hank, and I quote, while I cannot say with certainty that nothing happened,
00:45:14
Speaker
be it innocent horseplay or kidding around, the word hazing was never brought to our attention by a player, parent, athletic employee, or administrator. If it had been, Coach Fitzgerald would have acted and would not have tolerated it, nor would anyone on our staff. Again, knowing the character of our players, I seriously doubt that they would have forced or coerced anyone into doing anything or participating in something that they did not want to do.
00:45:43
Speaker
And then he goes on to mention that the timing of some of the allegations also seemed highly suspect as they occurred after Fitz was suspended for two weeks after a six month investigation found no credible evidence that coach FitzGerald was aware of any of the alleged hazing incidents. And again, like I said,
00:46:05
Speaker
We're not experts in this. We don't know what he did not know or knew. So I'll leave that to the investigation that's going to occur. But if you have any thoughts on this, Kiara? Yeah, they're doing another investigation. And I don't know why the first investigation they did was inadequate, but they have not published the findings as of August 9th, 2023.
00:46:31
Speaker
They say they will publish the findings of a future investigation. Again, no idea what the actual difference would be. But I trust that Coach Hank is being honest. The man is retired. He has nothing to gain from going on the record and lying. It's not like it impacts his career or his 401k or anything like that. He could have just stayed silent if it was the case that he had genuinely received allegations of hazing specifically.
00:47:00
Speaker
didn't act on it and he could have just hit his head in shame for the rest of his life. And he chose to not do that. And he chose to speak out. And I put weight in that personally. I don't think anything he says actually invalidates either the claims that people came out in the media and came out with the lawsuits. I think that both can be true at the same time that coaches were not informed about hazing specifically.
00:47:29
Speaker
I think that word carries a lot of weight and I feel like if someone said, I'm being hazed, they probably would have responded differently. But again, this was something that was so common. It wasn't much of a secret that it's not surprising to me that people would not even look at that as hazing.
00:47:51
Speaker
When I was first brought in as an equipment manager, I had heard from players that number one, Northwestern was labeled as the gayest locker room in the Big Ten. Are you serious? Somebody had told me that. They said, this is the gayest locker room.
00:48:08
Speaker
in college football. And I was like, wow, that's different. That's interesting. And it took me by surprise because I was not expecting somebody to say that to me verbatim. And honestly, I didn't even ask, but just volleyball that, just throw it out there. I didn't know there was a statistic that had, you know, that had that information in there. So I was like, okay, where did you get this? Did you cite your sources? Like I'm sitting here communications major, like
00:48:34
Speaker
me the facts but you know that conversation ended pretty quickly I guess we were going to class or whatever so um so that was one thing that was the first time I heard anything that was a little bit out of place the second thing is when it was time for this runs misruns giving stuff to happen and you had some of the players who were super excited about it I had gone wait clarify there were players who were looking forward to it yes it was like a
00:49:02
Speaker
let's go, let's do it, type deal. And honestly, I associated it with after I found out what it was, right? Because I had asked some of the other equipment managers, these students who told me kind of what was going on in that locker room at the time. And
00:49:23
Speaker
They were, I had associated it with like, I don't know, just something fun for them to do. I just felt like, okay, I have this information that it's pretty, you know, homoerotic, I guess, in that. It's not a very heteronormative type locker room style. So I didn't think of it as a hazing or as a thing that somebody would be, um,
00:49:50
Speaker
I guess, opposed to. It didn't seem like anybody was struggling. And then, of course, when I'm standing there and I'm looking at all this stuff happening and this music is going on, I'm like, okay, there's laughing. It sounds jovial from the outside.
00:50:06
Speaker
Yeah, not physically in the locker room, but yeah, from the outside of the locker room. And I'm like, okay, interesting. So I'm just like, whatever, they'll do what they do. And then as it's, you know, starting up, I'm seeing players leave. And I had asked a player, I was like, are you not going to participate? And they're like, no.
00:50:23
Speaker
to put it nicely like they're like no I'm just yeah I'm going home I was like oh okay so to me it wasn't presented as hazing either like as a as a let's call this staff people at that point you know taking in our dual role as students staff and whatever it's it wasn't presented to me as like a hazing incident and so I didn't see it that way and I think that
00:50:50
Speaker
if any of the times I had had conversations with the players about it over the years I was there because it did come up every year at least in one conversation or so. And it was never presented to me as something that wasn't a choice. And let me play a devil's advocate here for a moment.
00:51:10
Speaker
And I'll pretend that I'm a player on the team, right? If, let's say, I know that in one of the reports, someone had mentioned that a coach came into the players locker room. For anyone who doesn't know, the coaches and the players had separate locker rooms, okay? Like, if you're not familiar with football in any way or how these things are laid out. So really, there was not a lot of motive, I guess, for the coaches to see it happen live.
00:51:37
Speaker
So it would have had to be told to them or presented to them in some way. But one of the players did mention that one time a head coach did kind of come into the locker room, I guess briefly and associate or assistant head coach.
00:51:52
Speaker
Oh, associate. Yes. It was an assistant head coach. Yes. Coach Matt McPherson. Yes. And they said that he witnessed some of the things that were told in one of the articles about the hazing and basically. The naked pull-up specifically. I think that's what he walked in on at some point. That was
00:52:16
Speaker
We didn't mention that thus far in this podcast. There were a lot of allegations about a lot of different things that happened. Naked pull-ups were a thing that apparently happened. But if I'm the player, let's say I'm there doing a naked pull-up and maybe it's not my position coach, but it's somebody else's, right? Sorry, I was laughing over you. Could you repeat that?
00:52:44
Speaker
So if I'm a player, okay, if I'm a player, I'm okay. Don't get so caught up. It's a naked pull up. See, this is why, this is why nobody, this is why nobody reported it because it's supported on its face and naked. It was so absurd. So I'm a player. I'm doing a naked pull up. Right. I see a position coach.
00:53:22
Speaker
I'm so sorry. It just sounds ridiculous. It's just ridiculous. Go ahead. Are you? I'm here. I'm back. You're hyperventilating, okay?
00:53:40
Speaker
Are you, you literally just wheezed right now. It's like somebody put the last bit of air on you. Okay. Lina, please talk to me about Naked Phillips. This is serious, Lina.
00:53:57
Speaker
I was just the one who laughed for about five minutes straight. Okay. I'm a player. I'm doing naked pull ups. A position coach walks in and sees me doing it. Anybody would make me uncomfortable, right? If anybody was there seeing me, but also you would kind of think that any adult figure would come by, see this and say, ah,
00:54:20
Speaker
get down what's wrong with you guys. This is not going to happen. Stop it. You want somebody else to be the one to take on the role of protection and protecting you and making sure that this doesn't proceed any further. I just feel like some of this was probably
00:54:41
Speaker
oversight, I would say because any adult figure any responsible figure would have to be the one to step in because guys aren't always going to go against their peers to say, hey, this isn't it. I don't want to do this, you know, I think that's a really strong argument. And I, I think you're right. Like, if you're a teacher, your job is to not be one of the students and let the students run wild, you know, your students are counting on you to protect them and advocate for them.
00:55:11
Speaker
in a way that they can't for themselves. It's as simple as people have the mentality like snitches get stitches. I don't want to snitch. I don't want to be the one to show I have an issue with this. And yet as an authority figure, it is your job to see something that's happening and say, no, no, no, this is not okay. One of the issues that I think come up and crop up when people defend Fitz based on his character and defend him based on his ignorance to me
00:55:41
Speaker
is that I'll use the, the old adage from bounty gate, which is that ignorance is not an excuse or more specifically, ignorance is not a defense. You can't just have things happening under you. And then as a coach, you're responsible and just say, well, I didn't know. So I'm not going to get held accountable for it in some way. The fact that Fitz didn't know, I don't personally feel this way, but to me, I can see a compelling argument from someone who wants to say, listen, the fact that the coaches didn't know.
00:56:10
Speaker
That's reason enough to fire all of them. I totally see that. But what if they didn't know that it was harmful? Like they knew and didn't know that should I should? Because right, like back to my example, right? You they said that a coach McPherson came in, saw the naked pull ups.
00:56:32
Speaker
Okay, but what if the guys who were doing the pull-ups were all laughing? What if it wasn't one of the players who was uncomfortable? What if it was something that just presented itself as light-hearted fun? I mean, you're naked around each other all the time in a locker room, so couldn't it just be that the guys were comfortable with one another?
00:56:53
Speaker
Yeah, I can see why someone would walk into that. So the nakedness wasn't a trigger to say, oh, what's going on here? Because it is a locker room. Again, devil's advocate on the other side now, you know? So, I mean, to me, there are so many gray areas. And because you just don't have direct, like you do have the statements from the ones who are uncomfortable, but you don't have
00:57:15
Speaker
much in between. You don't have a lot of statements from coaching staff either, just about their own knowledge or lack thereof. And I think that
00:57:29
Speaker
you know, I don't know. I would, I personally would err on the side of kind of what you're saying. Like ignorance doesn't excuse it because if it's happening under you, you are taking on the responsibility of saying this is something that I'm proud of. This is something that represents our program and represents me as the coach, right? I think one of the compelling arguments that can be used to explain just kind of how coaches, if they maybe did know,
00:57:59
Speaker
didn't look at it as a big deal is that Coach Witz was going to send his son to Northwestern to be on the football team. And if he knew and thought that players were being abused by a systemic cultural practice, I struggled to believe that he would set his son up to get brand by players. I could also see the argument being made that why would anyone touch his son?
00:58:27
Speaker
Because if the argument is that Coach Fitz knew about the hazing, participated in it, then used it against the players for their playing time. Why would anybody touch his son? Because wouldn't that further harm their ability to play? True. Yes. And also,
00:58:54
Speaker
just by nature of him being in the locker room, he would be privy to things. And maybe that in and of itself would be a reason to stop it. Like, I don't, I don't think he would be in the locker room, like as an extension of his dad to police a team, especially not as a freshman. But yeah, I could see how, if, if it is the case that this was a actually damaging practice that, well, that players knew at the time was abuse as they were doing it to others, then,
00:59:24
Speaker
Presumably, they might not do it to him, but they could conceivably stop doing it altogether because they would think, you know, I don't want him seeing this at all because he might go tell his dad. So in this case, it would be a player-led function versus something that the coaches knew about. Basically, what I'm trying to say is like, if they don't look at it as something malicious, I don't see why they would
00:59:53
Speaker
not run him if this was something that happened to every freshman. And if it wasn't, if it was something that was in fact malicious, then they wouldn't do it to him or
Reactions to the Northwestern Hazing Controversy
01:00:07
Speaker
to anyone else knowing that he's an airshot of it happening. This might just be me, but it seems like either way, it's still a form of hazing.
01:00:16
Speaker
Yeah, I totally am on board and I totally agree that it was hazing now in retrospect, but I'm just going based on like what this is mindset could have potentially been with sending a child there.
01:00:30
Speaker
Right. I mean, I definitely see your point, like why I wouldn't send my child to a place where I know they're getting hazed. And so I don't know. It also kind of marks him as potentially innocent, because why would he set his son up in a place where they're getting hazed? You know, I don't think you would.
01:00:48
Speaker
I don't think so either and she was also Yeah, it's so messy. So it's like do you see we're trying to like see both sides put our feet in everyone's shoes and Either way you can make arguments on either side of what's going on. I mean, I know I
01:01:05
Speaker
The players that came forward, they obviously are legitimate because this practice has been going on for so long. Now, the way that this practice was viewed, I don't think anybody that was within the program necessarily viewed it the same way, except for now we're hearing more reports of people coming out. But I do think that the ill feelings toward this were
01:01:33
Speaker
possibly few and far between but then again you never know because you just don't know who's not talking. It just takes one person. You don't know who hasn't given their opinion. Yeah and that's all it is so I mean it's how the cookie crumbles but I mean something like this it was bound to happen and this is just one program and it's so easy for things like this to be swept under the rug or just just invisible to everyday people because
01:02:02
Speaker
You know, even those who are on the team, I mean, and around the team, I'll say, is soft because you just don't know, you don't know what's happening in other programs. There's no basis of comparison. I think it's true for players who have enrolled in Northwestern and enrolled as freshmen and have never seen any other programs. But, you know, with the advent of the transfer portal, there are
01:02:27
Speaker
Lots of players who have bounced around different programs and have seen what football looks like at other schools and coaches too. Most recently today, it came out that there are players and coaches and staff members at Northwestern right now who are wearing these long sleeve or short sleeve t-shirts that say cats against the world with the number 51 beneath it. Now, 51.
01:02:56
Speaker
was Coach Fitz's number as a player. It also was the year that Northwestern was founded in the 1800s, 1851. So I'm not gonna be so presumptuous to say that it was because they support Fitz, but I mean, you can kind of read it for yourself and see that they're trying to take this us against the world mentality to hopefully galvanize the team into a successful season, even though they've been terrible in the last few years.
01:03:22
Speaker
And I think that that approach to me is probably the wrong one. I'm on board with guys having opinions and being in favor of Coach Fitz getting his job back or wanting to defend him and support him. That to me makes sense. But when you have a culture that we've established where a lot of people could be okay with something and maybe one or two people could silently have a big issue with something,
01:03:52
Speaker
I don't know if it's the best optic to have this sort of us against the world mentality when something hazing, the running, has been well documented and there might be some number of guys who actually don't want Fitz to get his job back because they're not on board with how he supervised the program.
01:04:12
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I mean, it could definitely be seen that they're making the players do this. I mean, you know, when your team comes out in certain wear, like if you're in certain gear, if you're not wearing that gear, then obviously you stick out like a sore thumb and then all of a sudden you're not in support of the team or you're not one of the team. So it's like you put people in a very difficult position when you're in the midst of scandal.
01:04:39
Speaker
to try to combat that with the show of unity. Today, the athletic director, Greg, came out with a statement. He said, let me be crystal clear, hazing has no place at Northwestern and we are committed to do whatever is necessary to address hazing related issues, including thoroughly investigating any incidents or allegations of hazing or misconduct. To me, the issue is that
01:05:04
Speaker
There have been Northwestern players who have been wearing this shirt for weeks on social media. They've been posting themselves in it. Or at least one of Northwestern's coaches has posted a photo of a team dinner or some sort of team event where a player was wearing that shirt there. And the athletic director was nowhere to be found. It wasn't until we have an open media practice where players are talking to the media and the media
01:05:32
Speaker
a bunch of different outlets are there at Northwestern taking photos of practice, that we get a statement from him. If you really feel that this t-shirt is so egregious, why are you waiting until you get criticized to try to stop people from wearing it?
01:05:53
Speaker
Right. I mean, that should be something that's under wraps way before the t-shirt ever gets put out there, way before it ever gets handed to the players. But also, I mean, you have to think about their right to free speech as well, because maybe there are players on there who requested it. Maybe they wanted to wear the shirt and it's by all means their right to do so. But I mean, the timing, the timing is just
01:06:22
Speaker
It's unfortunate really because like we've been doing on this podcast, I can see both sides so clearly. I can see, I just think that anybody in PR, anybody with experience in the media should look at this t-shirt fiasco and say, maybe this is not the best time or the best way to make a statement. Yeah, I think what's really interesting to me is how this shirt was created.
01:06:50
Speaker
I really wonder who was the brainchild behind it because of course, traditionally Northwestern equipment is responsible for what the players wear. But as far as I can tell, this is not an Under Armour branded t-shirt. I haven't seen that. And so I'd love to see. And it could have, I believe it was, it seems like it was something that was requested by someone or a group of people. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.
01:07:19
Speaker
I do know that there are so many players right now who are very upset by what has happened and especially with it leading up to Fitz's termination. But at the same time, like I said, it shouldn't be up to a group of kids without guaranteed unanimously. Wait, whoa, what's the word? Unanimity. Unanimity, right?
01:07:49
Speaker
What are you even trying to say? It shouldn't be up to a small group of players without it being guaranteed unanimous vote that all of them are 100% on board with this t-shirt. What I think is especially interesting here is that there were coaches wearing this. So we're not even talking about players only who want to represent themselves in a specific way, or that they have their own individual identity where they can
01:08:19
Speaker
pick and choose, you know, the messages they want to put out. The person who is seen most prominently in all these photos in the media is the offensive coordinator, Mike Pachakian. And I think he, as an adult, as a coach who's been in the NFL too, has a responsibility to say, yeah, you know, I like this shirt. Maybe it's kind of stupid for me to invite this additional scrutiny
01:08:48
Speaker
onto my players, onto my staff. Now it's lucky for him, he sort of hides and never has to confront the media. He almost never does any sort of public speaking. It's always the head coach and it's the players. He never gets held to account for how poor the offense performed last year, how they're practicing this year. But you have to be able to, as an adult, be mature enough to do something that
01:09:16
Speaker
at least help your players out. You know they're already under so much pressure, so much scrutiny to be there as an adult, as a coach, as a representative for the team and wear that shirt. It just sets people up for failure. I don't understand why he thought that was a good idea. To me, it was just a boneheaded decision.
Conclusion and Light-hearted Discussion
01:09:38
Speaker
Like I said earlier, it's stepping on a rake. Anything else about Northwestern Hazing?
01:09:43
Speaker
No, I'm finished. I'm done. We're washing our hands of this unless we have some compelling interest and compelling reason to talk about this again. This is it. This podcast is not about sports. I don't even care what happens. Find out about it from the daily. I'm done. But I do have one last question for you. Okay. Before we end the pod, what's your favorite D1 athlete slang phrase?
01:10:11
Speaker
Oh my gosh. Where do I start? You have to pick one. No, you have to pick one. And if you want to, you can give me a scenario in which this would be used, but I need one. Oh man. You know, I gotta go with the classic, that boy different. It's a tried and true.
01:10:40
Speaker
I love that. How did I know? I knew you were going to say that one. What does it mean? How is he different? Who knows? All I know that boy is different. Okay. Give us an example. Where would you see this phrase or hear it be used? Let's say someone's got their new slick uniform on. They're getting ready to take their teen picture. They post it to their Instagram. You know, you could see the
01:11:07
Speaker
They're showing off the guns, their arms are nice and pumped, they're tanned. They're very serious and stern in the face. They're making their Heisman poses or whatever. And someone might comment, someone might comment a number of things. They might get, you know, go crazy or, you know, that's my brother or something like that. Classic is you're always going to see, I guarantee you. You will always do.
01:11:36
Speaker
that way different. Yeah, I mean, people don't call each other like brother anymore. They say br u d d er, rudder, rudder. Wow. That's my brother there. Whatever. It sounds really bad when you say it. It's that's just it's just it sounds as dumb as it looks when you read it. Oh, no. What's your pick?
01:12:03
Speaker
Honestly, and you already said it, you know, okay, every day I do say, say less. I got that from them. But by now it's so common of a phrase. I don't think I can attribute it to D1 athletes. I would say go crazy. Go crazy is a, is a strong number two.
01:12:23
Speaker
Because you see it, you see it on the IG posts, you see it when they repost each other's photos, they just be like, go crazy, go crazy. It's everywhere. All these boys going crazy. So I feel like that would be a really good song, by the way, Fergie picked that up. But I just love it. I love it. It applies to so many scenarios. So go crazy is my number one.
01:12:49
Speaker
You know what? Obligatory. I'm just going to go and look at one of their Instagrams and pick out what stands out to me. Let me see. If we were doing another athlete episode, if we ever do, we're going to do favorite captions. Oh my gosh. Yes. Like comments of the week. Yes. Let me see. I'm scrolling. I want to find a good one. Let's see. Okay. Matt law. Let's see. What does common say? My dog.
01:13:19
Speaker
with a D-A-W-G. Oh, it's always your brother or your dog. Or he's tough. Or it's like the teeth chattering emoji with some ice cubes. Yes, that one's everywhere. It's ice cold. You know what? I'm going to go on AJ Henning's Instagram. I'm going to look at his most recent athletic picture and see what the comments say. Number one from Ryan Helinsky, Hymnathy.
01:13:53
Speaker
Oh, can we end it there? Oh my gosh, yeah. No, that one takes the cake. Ryan, you win. You win, Ryan Helwinski. Congratulations. You win. Here's the trophy. This will probably be the only one that you experienced this year, so. I'm dead. And the pod. Click the button. We're out.
01:14:20
Speaker
That's it. We're done. Thanks for listening. We'll catch you. Bye. Bye.