Transcript
Speaker: Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
Speaker: We are on episode 64.
Speaker: With me, my co-captain, as always.
Speaker: Scott Larson.
Speaker: And Scott, it's just me and you riding the old William Falcon today.
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: We just couldn't get anybody.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: You know, well, here's the thing.
Speaker: We seem to be in a lull in that between games.
Speaker: And so we you and I were talking about, OK, who can we get on?
Speaker: Who can we talk about?
Speaker: And there wasn't really anybody timing wise that really felt like this was a good time to talk to them because it seemed.
Speaker: I guess there are a few things I do want to reach out to some competitive pinball players and talk about as things open up and possibly close back down.
Speaker: We'd like to talk a little more about that.
Speaker: But we also had Colin on just recently.
Speaker: Well, honestly, me and you haven't done an episode, just me and you, since we did our Deep Root to the Future episode, which was number 57.
Speaker: Oh my gosh.
Speaker: That's been a couple months.
Speaker: That's been, yeah.
Speaker: It's okay because the Deep Root train is totally like on board and they have sent out like, they've released like 10 games and so I'm totally eating my words on that one.
Speaker: You know who won't be selling Deep Root games?
Speaker: I guess I should never say never, but our friends over at Flippin' Out Pinball, Zach and Nicole Many, I doubt you'll be saying... If you want any other game, the new rumored... Well, is it really rumored Cactus Canyon?
Speaker: Can we just say it?
Speaker: Can we just say, hey... I'd still say not confirmed, but they can neither deny.
Speaker: They're not even saying they can neither confirm.
Speaker: They're just like, eh, okay.
Speaker: But still, I mean...
Speaker: So if you want to get on that list, you better give Zach a call.
Speaker: And honestly, if you want to get on any future list, if you've heard the rumored Rush from John Borg or the rumored Godzilla from Keith Elwin, this is all rumored.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay, let me get ridiculous.
Speaker: We're going to talk about this in because I guarantee that you and I haven't talked about any of these lists recently.
Speaker: And so I actually was wondering about these lists.
Speaker: And it's like, hey, how do they come in?
Speaker: So I messaged Zach, and there were a few titles that I was thinking of.
Speaker: And I just said, hey, like...
Speaker: I'm sure you have interested lists like, hey, like if this title comes up, I would be interested, which totally makes sense.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You can't get a commitment until you get an announcement.
Speaker: I mean, that's part of the deal.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But having that and I asked him, well, you you saw that, right?
Speaker: Like you were on that part where I was like, how many threads, like how many possible titles are out there?
Speaker: And how many did he say, Josh?
Speaker: I can't remember.
Speaker: It said 50.
Speaker: Good crime.
Speaker: And so like there are 50 potential titles that people are just spitballing.
Speaker: It's like, okay, so maybe they'll do, well, you know, they're not doing a Cleveland Indians game anymore, so they can scratch that one off.
Speaker: But you know, it's just, it's just so crazy that people are becoming Sherlock's and trying to figure out like, what is that next theme that I really want?
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: Playboy number four.
Speaker: Oh, geez.
Speaker: Do not go there.
Speaker: What a horrible thing for Cornwall.
Speaker: Well, they stopped doing the nudity stuff, so it could just be about the articles.
Speaker: Didn't they go back?
Speaker: I think they did flip-flop.
Speaker: I think they left for a couple years, and then they're like, you know, this isn't working for us.
Speaker: Yeah, well...
Speaker: It's just totally no longer relevant anyway.
Speaker: So, and I really isn't, I would argue for a good thing, but that's okay.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: So yes, talk to Zach or Nicole at flipping out pinball.
Speaker: They've been good friends of the show and we've been able to get lots of good things with them.
Speaker: Also, Josh, why don't you talk about, talk about your special announcement.
Speaker: Oh, hey, so we have teamed up with PinQuest.
Speaker: Hey, Neil, how you doing, Mr. Shelton?
Speaker: Congratulations on the new baby, by the way.
Speaker: We have teamed up with them.
Speaker: Baby Sheldon?
Speaker: Baby Shelton.
Speaker: Oh, Shelton, not Baby Sheldon.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: No, no, Baby Sheldon, Baby Shelton.
Speaker: So Neil has put PinQuest, he has revamped the whole thing.
Speaker: I know that it used to be like a location thing, but because of COVID and all that jazz, he had to reinvent it, essentially.
Speaker: And the new format is fun.
Speaker: You can do it from home.
Speaker: It's kind of like Selfie League.
Speaker: But the way it works is we have put up two games that you can high score on.
Speaker: We've picked Avengers Infinity Quest.
Speaker: Pro or Premium?
Speaker: Yeah, Pro or Premium or LE.
Speaker: It seems to be a game that...
Speaker: a lot of people can get their hands on.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There's a reason why they do all these competitions with recent releases because it's the hot game that people get really quickly.
Speaker: And it's actually brilliant from Stern's standpoint that if they are, if they are helping push this, I have no inside information on that, but that makes a lot of sense because Jurassic Park was, that was a huge seller for Jurassic Park because people could compete on it and it was the new game.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And then the other game, I'm kind of selfish.
Speaker: This is a Loser Kid game to me because I've owned it for so many years, and I feel like this is the unofficial official game of Loser Kid.
Speaker: And I picked World Cup Soccer.
Speaker: No, it's World Cup Soccer.
Speaker: So the way this is going to work, you have to take a selfie with the app.
Speaker: Like you can't just take a picture and then download it to the app.
Speaker: It used to be that way, but they're not doing that anymore.
Speaker: So on Avengers, you have to hit 200 million.
Speaker: I felt like that was reasonable.
Speaker: That's doable.
Speaker: Hey, even I can do that, and I'm a hack.
Speaker: So that's about two gems, two to three gems, just depending on how well you do.
Speaker: If you got like a portal locks in there or a multiball with it.
Speaker: And then with World Cup, I went a little more aggressive.
Speaker: I did 500 million.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So I think the high scores around like just a little over a billion on that game, like the base high score.
Speaker: So I figured halfway there, that's probably defeating five or six teams through World Cup.
Speaker: Anywho, so there's those two games.
Speaker: What do you get?
Speaker: Yeah, what do you get?
Speaker: So play the game, take a selfie.
Speaker: If you are able to complete either challenge, you will get a virtual Loser Kid trophy.
Speaker: It'll have our logo on there and all that jazz.
Speaker: And you will be entered to win a hat.
Speaker: So if you compete on both of them and you're able to beat both scores, you would get two entries.
Speaker: Easy enough.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: And so this one's for Glenn out there.
Speaker: Check it out.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Glenn and his Milwaukee Bucks.
Speaker: I don't know why he wants to shout them out, but it is what it is, I guess.
Speaker: They haven't won since since Lou Alcindor was up there.
Speaker: So I think that's pretty good.
Speaker: I think he was Lou Alcindor when he played for the Bucks.
Speaker: So maybe, maybe.
Speaker: Yeah, that was way before I was born.
Speaker: Well, we shout out the Jazz and the Jazz doesn't.
Speaker: Well, I guess they were relevant this last year, but they definitely did choke for the playoffs.
Speaker: number one team and they fall short well okay but one they were playing against a two-time finals mvp in kawai leonard which i would argue is a good player yeah and they also had like donovan mitchell got injured too so i mean i don't think it was that bad it's it is it is what it is so definitely i agree all right cool cool i want to talk about one more thing that kind of wrap this back around where we're talking just just
Speaker: future themes and how there's 50 supposed lists out there of different themes and titles well okay just not not I guess a interested list it's more of a hey call me if and so I mean that makes sense right so let's let's segue into this really quick okay because the I feel like the market of pinball has changed dramatically over the last year and a half and
Speaker: two years.
Speaker: And yes, COVID does have to do with it.
Speaker: But I feel like it's been heading this way for the last five or six.
Speaker: We've seen a steady trend up with pinball, right?
Speaker: There hasn't been really a dip low.
Speaker: Yeah, I'd say it seems to be still the the it's like the housing prices in Utah.
Speaker: The floodwaters keep rising everything.
Speaker: So, yes.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Hey, you have a house.
Speaker: You're fine.
Speaker: You rose with the tide.
Speaker: Yes, I did.
Speaker: Like, yes, I did.
Speaker: So I'm not I'm not complaining.
Speaker: I'm really not complaining about raising prices.
Speaker: But do you think it is still beneficial for a pinball company to keep under wraps?
Speaker: what theme they are currently producing because at this point it doesn't really matter like as soon as they unveil it it sells out so you mean you mean the le well yeah the le but like the whole point of it is like they don't tell anyone because they're hoping that that will help drive sales to the like because if people knew that let's let's throw out a dream theme that a lot of it gets it a lot let's say harry potter's in the pipeline for stir and
Speaker: I thought you were talking about Def Leppard because, you know, pour some sugar on me, multiball.
Speaker: You know it.
Speaker: But let's say that's in the pipeline, but they really want Godzilla to sell, so they just don't reveal Harry Potter.
Speaker: Are we still at that point, or would it be beneficial to start teasing some of these games that they've already got the license they're already starting to develop?
Speaker: No, I think they are doing the right thing.
Speaker: You want to strike while the iron's hot and people will, like, for example, when Led Zeppelin came out, I got a Led Zeppelin and I actually find it really fun to play.
Speaker: I find it interesting, though, that I talked to my friend who's like, he's a distributor near us.
Speaker: Like he's two blocks away from me.
Speaker: He's this super nice guy.
Speaker: And I just chat with him occasionally about his name is Kyle, by the way.
Speaker: And I was like, hey, what games are giving you buzz?
Speaker: Like, what are people calling you and asking you about?
Speaker: And he he actually said, I actually haven't had any calls about Led Zeppelin.
Speaker: But the games he consistently has calls on are Jurassic Park.
Speaker: And, you know, and so themes, there are certain games that have more buzz than others, even though I think Led Zeppelin's a great Steve Ritchie theme.
Speaker: It's perfect.
Speaker: And with the light show integration, it's certainly a lot of fun.
Speaker: It will always draw comparisons to Guns N' Roses, which I think are a little unfair because of the resources that they put into Guns N' Roses.
Speaker: Like the building material has to be significantly higher.
Speaker: But it's just interesting to get that perspective of what are people interested in.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so, yeah, I do think that there's a value for them to keep their themes under wraps because that's what keeps people guessing and talking.
Speaker: And Buzz, you can buy that Buzz.
Speaker: How many times have we talked about, well, I Deep Root announced their eight planned games.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Now I'm going to, I'm going to take off my deep root hater hat, but just say like what you do is you immediately look at all 10 games and say, I want that one.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like not every single game that comes out, you're going to go, you know what?
Speaker: I want food truck.
Speaker: It's true.
Speaker: Because if you're a big Who fan or a Queen fan or whatever, then you're going to say, no, I'm going to hold out for that one.
Speaker: So I guess to your point, do you think it hurt them that they unveiled all these games and then asked for orders for Raza?
Speaker: Do you think a lot of people are like, well, I'll just hold out because Yukon Yeti sounds good because I like Whitewater.
Speaker: So I'm just going to hold out for that.
Speaker: Or Goonies.
Speaker: Do you think they would have got more sales if they just would have held out?
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I think it would have been better.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: The, the real challenge that I see is that there is that element of surprise and there's that buzz and people are always like, Ooh, what's that next thing that's coming out?
Speaker: So,
Speaker: Yeah, I like the surprise, by the way.
Speaker: The good news is no one's calling me and saying, hey, by the way, here are the next 10 games.
Speaker: Avengers totally caught me by surprise, and I probably shouldn't have been surprised, but it totally caught me by surprise.
Speaker: And Mandalorian, you and I were betting about what the theme was.
Speaker: We assumed it was going to be some sort of Marvel Disney license just because they have a good relationship.
Speaker: But I'm on record as saying that I thought it was going to be Black Panther.
Speaker: And I was on record thinking it was back to the future.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: So, well, back to the future is not really Disney though.
Speaker: Well, sorry.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But that's what we were hearing.
Speaker: But that's what we were thinking.
Speaker: So we were dead wrong on that.
Speaker: So it was a lot of fun when they announced Mandalorian.
Speaker: I'm like, Oh, that's cool.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We just need to make better friends with people at Stern, I guess.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think this is one, it makes it more for, it's easier to do an honest podcast when we don't know what's going on.
Speaker: So anyway, that's, yes.
Speaker: So the answer to your question is, I think there is still value to generate the buzz and keeping it under wraps.
Speaker: So, well, and my other thought process is I think that we're I don't want to say we're in a bubble.
Speaker: I hate the idea of a bubble.
Speaker: But I think that pinball has definitely went through its ups and downs.
Speaker: And I think we're definitely on an up right now.
Speaker: I think changing tactic that has worked for many years during downs is it's not smart to change that tactic that could then be affected if there is a down.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: Yeah, and really, so what would happen?
Speaker: I mean, we're talking basic economics, right?
Speaker: So supply and demand.
Speaker: Well, are games going to magically evaporate?
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: So it's demand that will really drive it if people just stop wanting to hold on to these games.
Speaker: But a lot of these games have made it into homes and it seems like they're in a lot better shape than they would be if they were at your local bar.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So the game seemed to seem to be potentially holding their value a lot better than they ever have been.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Well, that's what's weird, too.
Speaker: I know that it's been talked about on.
Speaker: it seems like every other podcast this week, but you know, value of pinball machines, even taking it out of the box, like on final round, Joe Fox was saying it's never, he's never owned a Stern game, played it for a couple of months and then sold it for more when he bought for, this is just a really weird time in the hobby where this is happening.
Speaker: And so, but it's totally because Stern is doing their best to manufacture, to keep up with demand.
Speaker: But eventually, um,
Speaker: The demand will taper off.
Speaker: Eventually there will be a saturation of the market.
Speaker: Eventually the game rooms will fill up.
Speaker: I mean, I'm already there.
Speaker: You're already there.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So we have to look.
Speaker: Well, I've got plenty more room.
Speaker: It's just, it's the wallet kind of thing.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And that's fine.
Speaker: But okay.
Speaker: Well, saturation points can be reached in many ways.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There's a financial saturation point.
Speaker: There's a space saturation point.
Speaker: There's a significant other tolerance of your weird hobby saturation point.
Speaker: So, yeah, but that's what I'm saying, is that eventually you reach that, and maybe that next game you're not going to get.
Speaker: Or you're going to say, you know, I'm going to play this a little longer.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: I'm kind of getting to the point, though, where I'm hesitant to get rid of my games unless if they're being produced.
Speaker: Like, I don't mind getting rid of Jurassic Park Pro because I know I can still... You can get another one.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: If I get the itch, I could just say, hey, Zach, put me on the list for the next time they run a Jurassic Park Pro.
Speaker: And he'll say, it's coming out in three or six months.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: But my World Cup soccer, I'm just like, I don't want to get rid of this now.
Speaker: Like, even if I had questions about it, I don't want to because you cannot find them right now.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Medieval madness.
Speaker: Same thing.
Speaker: Like medieval madness.
Speaker: My kids will never, one, they don't want me to sell it.
Speaker: But two, I know multiple people who, whether they're new to the hobby or they're getting into the hobby, are like, hey, I want a medieval madness and I can't find any of them.
Speaker: And CGC could be rolling in money right now.
Speaker: I do not get it.
Speaker: I do not get it.
Speaker: I've told, I have mentioned before that CGC should be taking that like a Beatles white album, like print off as many of those albums and sell them to whoever wants them, because that is gold.
Speaker: Like you don't, you're taking zero risk there.
Speaker: You're printing money at this point.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so I don't hear complaints about the quality of CGC like I do some other companies.
Speaker: And so it's just like you guys have a quality built product.
Speaker: Why aren't you selling this license?
Speaker: Because let's be honest, are you excited for Cactus Canyon?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And now I will say, I know I'm in the minority because I have talked to multiple people who, you know, they have been, that has been the longstanding rumor of cactus Canyon.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And there have been so many people who have like, I am so interested in this game.
Speaker: And usually I have to ask really.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So what about this game makes you interested?
Speaker: Because I,
Speaker: And the Cactus Canyon falls into, for me, that like the Big Bang bar or the where it's more of the rarity that is driving the the demand for it as opposed to the playfield layout, because in the playfield, it's a completely unknown designer.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so like it's a one off.
Speaker: And so I don't know like what makes that interesting.
Speaker: But what about you?
Speaker: Are you interested in Cactus Canyon?
Speaker: I'm slightly interested in the fact that like
Speaker: There's going to be new code.
Speaker: There's definitely going to be new code.
Speaker: I've heard there's new artwork on the thing.
Speaker: Like, they're obviously going to still have the old artwork, but I heard there's new little details added.
Speaker: They have to update it a little bit, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, they've done it with Attack from Mars.
Speaker: They've done it with Medieval Madness.
Speaker: They definitely did it with Monster Bash.
Speaker: They just had to change some things because of licensing and stuff like that, you know?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And what I'm hearing also is the topper is phenomenal.
Speaker: We haven't seen it, guys.
Speaker: No, we haven't seen anything, and we're taking this all with a grain of salt.
Speaker: Trust me, the last person that told me that for sure the next game coming out from Stern was Back to the Future ended up being Mandalorian, so I've even lost trust with some of my quote-unquote inside sources.
Speaker: So I just, I take it, I take everything with a big grain of salt, because let's be honest, like, no one really knows besides who's working there.
Speaker: Okay, do you know who designed Cactus Canyon just off the top of your head?
Speaker: Oh, what is his name?
Speaker: I thought it was Matt something or other.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: You got the first name, but there's actually two.
Speaker: uh and i don't know who took lead so well here's the thing though i've played cactus canyon i actually enjoy the game but here's the thing about cactus canyon it feels very medieval madness very attacked attack from a very late 90s game yeah so there's it's a family out yeah it's got the complete the five achievements like a brian eddy to then go on to the final wizard mode yeah um
Speaker: So it's Matt Correale and Tom Copera.
Speaker: Yes, Tom Copera.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: So he was on the design of the code.
Speaker: And he was recently, actually, it's been a couple months, but he was on one of the TPN interview podcasts.
Speaker: And he talked about the code of Cactus Canyon because this was all kind of coming to light.
Speaker: And the interesting part is he said he, uh, CGC, he can't confirm that they're making Cactus Canyon because if they are, they're more than likely not using him for code because he hasn't heard from them at all.
Speaker: But Tom Capara works with Stern.
Speaker: He's very, he works very close with Stern.
Speaker: He's, so I,
Speaker: I don't know if it's because he works for Stern or if they wanted to go a new direction with the rest of the code that they have.
Speaker: Who knows?
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: So it's because it's such an unknown for me.
Speaker: And because I'm thinking, uh, like I love my CGC games and I will also tell you that the two collectors, uh, my two friends who have high end, uh, high, high end collections here, they're both getting cactus Canyon.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I feel less of a drive to get the Cactus Canyon because they have like all four of the remakes.
Speaker: So like I, well, they will, they will, they'll, they'll have all four of them.
Speaker: So I feel less, it's the same reason why I don't have a Lord of the Rings because I would love Lord of the Rings and I would have one by now if I don't have the option to go play it at their house.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, and the reason I might get a Cactus Canyon is because I actually don't – I used to have Monster Bash and Attack from Mars.
Speaker: And then I did the whole, well, I can sell my two games and get three or four out of them.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: That's fine.
Speaker: It's reasonable.
Speaker: And so I was like, well, I'll sell them.
Speaker: I'm kind of back in that mood of I want a CGC.
Speaker: I probably wouldn't go the LE like I have the last two games.
Speaker: Like the SE?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I'd get an LE.
Speaker: I totally wouldn't.
Speaker: I would probably just go with the premium.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: You have to see it to see what's all in it.
Speaker: But I'm just... I'm one of those people.
Speaker: It's definitely going to sell regardless if you buy it.
Speaker: I think it will.
Speaker: And I think that their track record has said they're going to do a good job.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So new, uh, new tips.
Speaker: So, um, anyway, well, okay.
Speaker: So, okay.
Speaker: Uh, okay.
Speaker: I, we're going to spend about two seconds on this because that's about all it requires is so, uh, so Josh, I'm going to give a statement to you and you tell me on a scale of one to a hundred, how believable you think it is.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Steve Ritchie immediately leaving Stern and going to JJP.
Speaker: That was shared on Reddit, which is a huge pinball forum.
Speaker: And so it was shared Monday.
Speaker: And if this immediately was happening, it was immediately having happening.
Speaker: And so, okay.
Speaker: On a scale of one to a hundred, a hundred being sure thing.
Speaker: One being is no chance.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: What do you think?
Speaker: I don't, you don't have to ask no chance.
Speaker: And, and the reason being, I mean, we've been kind of talking about this on the side a little bit.
Speaker: Uh, and the only reason I even caught wind of it is because someone messaged you and was like, Hey, what do you think of this?
Speaker: And so it's just kind of funny, but yeah.
Speaker: And someone who likes to be a troll to us, like, let's be honest, this guy, he's nice.
Speaker: We love him.
Speaker: But there's sometimes he just throws information our way to make us think, is this really happening?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It questions whether or not I took the red pill or the blue pill.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I totally get it.
Speaker: And so like the chance of that actually happening or, okay, I'm going to rate it as two out of a hundred, just because there is it completely possible.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But do I think it's likely?
Speaker: No, not, not.
Speaker: Can we give our top three, the top three reasons we decide this is not going to happen at all.
Speaker: Okay, so I'll start with one.
Speaker: One, if this were a real thing, it would not be shared on Reddit.
Speaker: Reddit is not the major pinball forum.
Speaker: It's just the only reason why it goes to Reddit is if other forums are unavailable.
Speaker: So I'll just leave it at that.
Speaker: Go ahead, Josh.
Speaker: So we'd share this on the side.
Speaker: I'll hurry and toss.
Speaker: Okay, so first off...
Speaker: Unless if JJP is planning on producing more games sooner, they have enough designers to fill the timeframe that they are finishing right now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So why would they need another designer?
Speaker: Unless they plan on.
Speaker: So that's logic A, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And rumor has it that Steve and Pat aren't BFFs.
Speaker: Yeah, that's reason number two bit number like huge like Pat runs Pat runs JJP.
Speaker: So we'll so unless Steve is willing to work under Pat's control, which I don't think he is.
Speaker: So yeah, no.
Speaker: Well, and if you've listened to the Silver Ball Chronicles, hey, Ron, hey, David, they talked about this in the Lawler episode.
Speaker: When it was at Williams, it was very much Team Lawler versus Team Richie.
Speaker: And so I highly doubt that.
Speaker: Maybe I, well, it's been 20 years, but still, but still I like there's is what's the reason, like it would have to be a spectacular meltdown at Stern for Steve Ritchie to go.
Speaker: I think that it would, I mean, Steve's Steve is at the, at the end of his career, like, right.
Speaker: I mean, he's in the seventies.
Speaker: There's no reason for him to radically shake things up unless something radically happens.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And like you said, I just don't see him going to work under Lawler.
Speaker: That's just my personal opinion.
Speaker: And third, one of the two designers.
Speaker: So if the schedule's not changing on them speeding up and making more games, which right now that's what it looks like.
Speaker: I mean, we're almost a year out from when Guns N' Roses was revealed.
Speaker: It sounds like they're saying pretty much on the same time window they have in the past.
Speaker: Anywho, you know, one of your two designers would have to quit and Eric's not going anywhere.
Speaker: Eric's Eric's Eric is the future of JJP.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And he's, he's solid.
Speaker: He's motivated and he will be doing that.
Speaker: And so like, I don't think Pat's thinking of leaving anytime soon.
Speaker: And the timeline is there.
Speaker: They seem to be comfortable with releasing a game every Friday.
Speaker: one and a half to two years yeah so so i i think that is what it is so no steve's not leaving so there's the four minutes whoever whoever was being uh whoever was the troll who was doing that yeah yeah no chance no chance hey you got you got your four minutes of fame
Speaker: You got your four minutes of pinball fame.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's like good for a Slurpee refill or something.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So this one hurts my heart.
Speaker: And I've kind of gone off a little bit on this because I don't have any inside information at all in this.
Speaker: But it was announced that, you know, the...
Speaker: The museum of pinball in Banning is closing and just everything's being auctioned off.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Now I, okay, Josh, do you want me to give you, give you my take first or do you want to give your take first?
Speaker: Honestly, it sucks that our location is closing.
Speaker: I've never been to the Banning location.
Speaker: It's totally not ideal.
Speaker: It is not a great place.
Speaker: It's kind of in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker: They would have special events a few times a year.
Speaker: I actually ran into one of the guys at the Pinball Hall of Fame who was involved in the Banning Museum.
Speaker: and he was playing Iron Maiden and I just randomly started talking to him.
Speaker: And that's how I found out who he was.
Speaker: And, you know, so this is even before we got into podcasting, I think.
Speaker: Um, but it's, you know, it's expensive to, to store and to turn on the lights and even just the electricity and the air conditioning and all that stuff to run anything.
Speaker: So immediately I was questioning, well, how, like, like how viable is this when the location's not great and it's not like you're making a lot of money from whatever you're doing.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I totally understand when a business goes under.
Speaker: However, what is just, it dumb founds me that things of this magnitude happen and become public so late in the process that the only thing, only avenue they have is to sell everything off.
Speaker: Yeah, like that.
Speaker: That's now I know that they don't owe us anything.
Speaker: And this may be the best thing for them.
Speaker: But if the goal was to find a way of saving everything in whole or in part, then shouldn't shouldn't there be a little bit more of a a grassroots or a PR campaign to say, hey, this is what's going on.
Speaker: This is what we're trying to do.
Speaker: Who's with us?
Speaker: Who can help us with this?
Speaker: Because there are some mega collectors out there.
Speaker: There are some big whales out there who have money, who want to keep pinball stuff alive.
Speaker: So it frustrates me that it's too far gone for anything like that to happen.
Speaker: And it's not even a resurrection progress.
Speaker: It's more of a process.
Speaker: Excuse me.
Speaker: It's just a, hey, it's a fire cell.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: The more that I've thought about this, it sucks that it's happening, but it could be one of those things because a lot of people compare it to the Pinball Hall of Fame where they ask for money.
Speaker: But the thing is, Tim Arnold has had...
Speaker: the idea for the, the upgrade of his building for years now, like it's not new.
Speaker: And it's also, it's also in Vegas.
Speaker: Like it is, it is in a place where people come like you and I have been to the pinball hall of fame.
Speaker: You and I have not been to the museum of pinball.
Speaker: There's a reason.
Speaker: And it's the city.
Speaker: And well, and I think the other thing is too, is like some people are living from month to month.
Speaker: And so, yeah, if you ask for that help and the well helps out and you get another six months or a year, you don't know what the future holds, at least with like pinball hall of fame.
Speaker: Tim had had to figure it out how they were going to build it.
Speaker: And they fell short, but he still had a game plan of what they were going to do to keep it going.
Speaker: And even with COVID, they've really, now that it's kind of lightened up and everything, they're still making things work.
Speaker: I'm wondering if it's one of those situations where it's like,
Speaker: I just don't know.
Speaker: There's, there's so many underlying details that we really don't know.
Speaker: And so I just, I go, well, it sucks, but yeah, I'm sure there's a lot more to it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It just, but it does just kind of frustrate me that it's a, Hey, we're closing and peace out.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I get that.
Speaker: I get that.
Speaker: But I just, I don't know.
Speaker: I wish the best for him.
Speaker: I really do.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like it's, but it's, it's like when you find out someone's getting divorced and you're like, is there, was there any way?
Speaker: Like, I know that there are some times when there's no relationship that can be salvaged.
Speaker: And I know it's a bad comparison, but it just feels like nobody wins in these scenarios.
Speaker: I guess that's, that's what I'm trying to banning.
Speaker: He's been cheating on us this whole time and it just finally came out.
Speaker: Okay, yeah, exactly.
Speaker: Okay, so the comparison didn't work.
Speaker: No, it's fine, dude.
Speaker: No, I get what you're saying, but it is what it is.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, let's move on to something that I'm excited about.
Speaker: I know we can't really give a ton of time to this because it's just a rumor.
Speaker: I'm starting to hear this float around a little bit more and more, but it sounds like P3's next title is...
Speaker: is based off of a video game.
Speaker: It's a license of a video game.
Speaker: And Scott Nisi will be doing the music for it.
Speaker: I don't know if you've ever played Cadence of Hyrule, Scott.
Speaker: It's on Switch.
Speaker: I think it's maybe 15 bucks.
Speaker: It might be a little bit more.
Speaker: But it's really cool because it's hard to sometimes visualize a Super Mario song.
Speaker: Wait, what's it called?
Speaker: Cadence of Hyrule.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: It's a music video game?
Speaker: Kind of.
Speaker: So the way it works is if you've ever played the traditional Legend of Zelda where it's top-down, where you go from screen to screen, it's like that.
Speaker: But there is a rhythm and a beat playing during the game.
Speaker: And if you move to the beat, it gives you bonuses for when you are killing bad guys and stuff like that.
Speaker: Oh, it's like a dance party.
Speaker: Kind of, but it's very Zelda-based.
Speaker: Like, it's still...
Speaker: It's the Zelda game that you know with a little twist.
Speaker: Have you played this game on Switch?
Speaker: Have I?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Love it.
Speaker: Bought it.
Speaker: I've beat it so many times.
Speaker: It's fantastic.
Speaker: Don't say that too many times.
Speaker: If you're looking for a fun game on the Switch, I highly recommend it.
Speaker: But the cool part of it is... It's interesting because that's a Nintendo-ish title.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So that is very interesting, right?
Speaker: It's officially licensed.
Speaker: It's official license from Nintendo.
Speaker: Right, but that's interesting just because of some of the other dream things, right?
Speaker: Like I think people would want a Super Mario Brothers LE version.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So, but the thing I'm saying is, is like a lot of people have a hard time picturing because Scott Denise's music.
Speaker: If you've listened to TNA, which we all have, it's very electronic.
Speaker: Yeah, but it is not Legend of Zelda.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Listen to the cadence, cadence of Hyrule soundtrack on YouTube.
Speaker: It's like two hours long, but just listen to the first five minutes or something.
Speaker: It'll give you an idea of how something could be still like a Scott Denise song, but
Speaker: but still traditional Zelda or Mario or whatever it may be.
Speaker: And maybe they're not going Nintendo.
Speaker: Maybe they're doing a different video game.
Speaker: But when I hear video game, like the very first games I think of are Zelda and Mario.
Speaker: Because I just... Sure.
Speaker: Let's be honest.
Speaker: The flagships of any other system... Not the same.
Speaker: They're not the same.
Speaker: Like Halo, in my opinion, might come close.
Speaker: just cause it's been around for so long.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But no one's like, yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So I, I could get burned on this because I'm not a video game player.
Speaker: And last time I said that, uh, that, uh, Street Fighter two is dead.
Speaker: Then someone corrected me and said, no, it's very much alive.
Speaker: But you just don't see the marketing iconic images with Halo.
Speaker: Like the people who play Halo were like, oh, that's a gun from Halo or the truck, like the Cybertruck or whatever.
Speaker: There were vehicles were like, that looks like a Halo vehicle.
Speaker: However, the average person has no clue.
Speaker: But I would say that the average person knows who...
Speaker: who like link is or link or mario and because they played it as kids like i i played that 40 years ago right or 30 years ago or whenever it was so well and and we went over this it's been six months but we went over the 25 top grossing media oh yeah all time yeah and like pokemon yeah pokemon was number one you shocked me with pokemon i would not have guessed that
Speaker: Yeah, Pokemon and Mario was on there.
Speaker: Legend of Zelda is like really close.
Speaker: Call of Duty is on there.
Speaker: I mean, there's some of those were some of that market didn't overlap with what a pinball market would be.
Speaker: So I understand why Pokemon hasn't been made because it is very much an Asian-centric market.
Speaker: And it's not like, yes, there are Pokemon players here too.
Speaker: But it's not the same.
Speaker: It's not the same penetrance, I guess.
Speaker: What I'm saying is when you think of top brand franchises when it comes to media and video games, it's mostly Nintendo franchises.
Speaker: In my opinion, when it comes to money.
Speaker: Okay, so you educated me on the cadence of Hyrule, but it's going to be a Scott Dinesi game, and it's for P3.
Speaker: The music will definitely be Scott Dinesi.
Speaker: Okay, so what does that mean for P3?
Speaker: I think it's, honestly, right now, the secret sauce to making pinball is a theme.
Speaker: It's as shallow as it is.
Speaker: It's really all it is is the secret sauce.
Speaker: There's a reason.
Speaker: Well, OK, but is that surprising, though?
Speaker: Like when you're when you are connecting with something, you are connecting with a story.
Speaker: You're connecting with the lore.
Speaker: You're connecting with a character.
Speaker: You're connecting with a band.
Speaker: You're connecting with something.
Speaker: And so you are, there's a reason why there's a licensing fee.
Speaker: And because by paying a licensing fee, you are buying that connection, that fan base.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so it totally makes sense why some licenses will, will command more than others.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Cause it just depends on how much, like I, okay, seriously, you too pinball machine.
Speaker: Like why I, okay.
Speaker: The fan base for you too is significantly greater than like a journey pinball machine or something.
Speaker: And by the way, I'm not taken away from journey.
Speaker: I've seen them.
Speaker: They're great.
Speaker: But the amount of people worldwide that have seen you too, but they're, they probably command a hefty price for their license.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So let's take, I don't know.
Speaker: I'm trying to think.
Speaker: I just, I think, like I said, the secret sauce is themed.
Speaker: So I think, I think this is a really brilliant move for P3, especially where other companies are starting to no longer use their product.
Speaker: Like spooky has now moved back to Ben Hex new circuit board, which is right.
Speaker: And so there's a question about the viability of it.
Speaker: Yeah, I get it.
Speaker: And I don't know if it's because of the software or the hardware that came with the game.
Speaker: But like if Spooky is no longer the map for P3, I assume American Pinball is still going to use it.
Speaker: But I'm not for sure.
Speaker: I have no idea.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I can't remember.
Speaker: I swore someone said they weren't going to.
Speaker: But if that's the case, like...
Speaker: P3 has kind of lived off of selling their circuit boards.
Speaker: So now you'd be back to your own licenses.
Speaker: And don't get me wrong, I enjoy Heist and Lexi Lightspeed and those games, but they really just do need a theme.
Speaker: I think that's really what would just put them on the map at this point.
Speaker: And if you don't think it works...
Speaker: I was wrong with Halloween.
Speaker: I really didn't think Halloween was going to do anything.
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: I was shocked.
Speaker: And so I'm good for them.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And I know there are some people who were really turned off by the theme.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: So that's certainly something to consider.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: So I learned a new thing that that actually may help move because really kids.
Speaker: Well, one of the reasons why I think Deadpool is so successful is, is be in really adventures in some way, because it feels closer to what a video game feels like.
Speaker: And that connects with younger audiences.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So I got thinking about today and I know that Avengers kind of does it, but what if a pinball company took the approach like breath of the wild?
Speaker: If you've never played breath of the wild, you can instantly get to the final boss from the very beginning of the game, but it is ridiculously hard to do.
Speaker: And the boss is ridiculously hard to beat.
Speaker: What if you could approach, you could play the wizard mode from the very beginning, but
Speaker: which I guess you technically can when they've got you, you hold the flippers together, but like in actual gameplay, you could go directly for the final wizard mode from the very first flip, but it was, it would be ridiculously hard to complete, but by completing other modes and other achievements in the game makes it easier for the final mode to be finished.
Speaker: Yeah, it's interesting, right?
Speaker: I mean, there's a whole point on Deadpool.
Speaker: There's a, you know, the, the reason why you want a few things like you always want Wolverine because your damage is so much higher.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And, you know, if you want, you know, if you want more points, then you certainly want Colossus.
Speaker: So there, you know, there are things, and if you want a disco ball, then you want Dazzler.
Speaker: Um, so just little things like that, um, make it, so maybe that's, that's kind of interesting, but isn't that also like what the, what the average mode or the insane mode, I mean, on, on, on adventures, you get to choose, right?
Speaker: Like I choose the, I choose the basic version and Colin was here and he was flipping around.
Speaker: He's like, yeah, I'll go for insane version.
Speaker: I'm like, okay, good luck.
Speaker: So the concept I'm presenting, let's take Avengers, for example, is you would automatically be able to play Thanos at the very beginning.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: And this concept still is kind of that way because Keith has made it.
Speaker: If you collect gems, it makes it easier to complete Thanos once you get to him.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: But it would be insanely hard to beat Thanos, but you could play him for the very first flip.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Don't you think that would be like chopping wood, though?
Speaker: If it's like hit the orbit 60 times.
Speaker: And it doesn't have to be like that, but it could definitely be like, okay.
Speaker: It's the final battle.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The mini games though, they typically aren't the final, final mode, right?
Speaker: It's like the second to final mode.
Speaker: So, you know, it's like the escape from new Blar is not when dinosaurs ruled the earth.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: And battle Thanos is the final mode, if I remember correctly.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I've gotten there once or twice, and I don't think there's anything after you beat Thanos.
Speaker: No, there is.
Speaker: You get to play as Thor, and you get to wear the Infinity Gauntlet, and you get to start destroying people.
Speaker: It's totally twisted.
Speaker: I don't remember that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Maybe that was just in my dream modes.
Speaker: So maybe.
Speaker: So I'm excited.
Speaker: I'm excited.
Speaker: I definitely want to see a video game theme that isn't Pac-Man, that isn't Space Invaders, that isn't Spy Hunter.
Speaker: Don't get me wrong.
Speaker: Those are all fantastic games, but I want one that I know there's a story behind and I can dig deep into the video game or into the pinball machine via the video game.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: That's, that's actually, it's a good point.
Speaker: And I love what they've been doing and, and, you know, Dwight started it with, are you a God?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Or, um, that's, that was the mode, right?
Speaker: Um, and so that's, it's fun to be able to say, Hey, let's, let's do different things.
Speaker: And I've loved the challenge of things.
Speaker: So those are great.
Speaker: All right, let's move on to the next, uh, the item and we'll kind of not tangent this one.
Speaker: we keep hearing, you know, Stern's coming out with another game.
Speaker: It's, it's probably gonna be here fall.
Speaker: Um, is it Borg or is it Elwin?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Borg.
Speaker: We've heard it's a possible music theme as in maybe rush.
Speaker: That's the rumor.
Speaker: And then, or is it Ellen's Godzilla, which is the other rumor?
Speaker: Yeah, and really, we don't have any confirmation on these things.
Speaker: The Godzilla thing, the reason why that's been tapped is because, one, we know they have the license, right?
Speaker: Yeah, because Spooky was a little upset about the whole Godzilla thing and they went off about it on the podcast.
Speaker: I would say understandably.
Speaker: I'm not saying they're not justified in it.
Speaker: I'm just saying, hey, that's what happened.
Speaker: Yeah, and so we know that it's kicking around.
Speaker: So we're thinking that, you know, and so, okay, so let's go over the designers that Stern has.
Speaker: So we have Borg, we have Richie,
Speaker: We have Elwin and possibly Gomez if he wants to jump into the ring, right?
Speaker: You forgot Eddie too.
Speaker: And Eddie.
Speaker: Okay, so they have five.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: But I think Gomez has strictly said, even on recent podcasts, he's just not...
Speaker: designing anymore.
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: We all know why he designed Deadpool.
Speaker: And that was because he jumped in to, to rescue that.
Speaker: And I would say he did an amazing job.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: So, okay.
Speaker: So Eddie, Eddie's game just got released.
Speaker: So he's not available.
Speaker: Um, so Steve Ritchie, well, his game was before that.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: So he's not coming out with another one.
Speaker: So he's not coming out.
Speaker: So I just, we're just doing the math.
Speaker: So you're going to have either Elwyn or Borg.
Speaker: And so, okay.
Speaker: So now Borg had turtles and Elwyn had Avengers.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So remind me of the timeline.
Speaker: Wasn't Avengers first?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Well, Borg had Ninja Turtles.
Speaker: Oh, that's right.
Speaker: It was turtles.
Speaker: And then it was Avengers.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And Ninja Trolls came out right at the beginning of the pandemic.
Speaker: So it was like April.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: May 2020.
Speaker: Avengers was in the fall.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: That's why I have a hard time believing that Elwyn's is next.
Speaker: Like mathematically, I just feel like Elwyn's is coming out in the winter.
Speaker: That winter timeline, like the Led Zeppelins and the Stranger Things.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: But couldn't it also just be when it's done, it's done?
Speaker: Possibly.
Speaker: And granted, there could be license hang-ups.
Speaker: I mean, I assume if they are doing Godzilla, it'd be a lot easier to work with the licensor than maybe, say, Rush.
Speaker: Don't know.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Why would Rush be hard?
Speaker: It could be like the whole Beatles thing where you have to get it... You've got four estates that you have to pretty much sign off on it.
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: So there's three people in Rush and one of them's dead.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I do not think it is the level of Beatles complexity to deal with Rush.
Speaker: I get that.
Speaker: But what I'm saying is there's still some complexity there where and like the Beatles, they only met like once a year.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so like the licensing, they had to have it already for like that one day or whatever it was.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Where I doubt it's like that with Rush, but still.
Speaker: Yeah, they're not really doing much.
Speaker: Even though the dude's passed away.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like his family still has the rights of what happens.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: That's fair.
Speaker: So yeah, I'm just kind of curious to see what
Speaker: So I know it is a possible and I would say that if it ends up being a music pen, I think Borg is actually a good one to do a music pen.
Speaker: I enrich he's done a few.
Speaker: Well, has Borg done a music pen?
Speaker: Yes, he did Metallica.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Duh.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: I'm an idiot.
Speaker: That's the first one that comes to my mind.
Speaker: I'd have to look at the others.
Speaker: I am Scott and this is my first day in pinball.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So yes, he's, he's done a great one and yes, but it's okay.
Speaker: It's interesting though.
Speaker: Cause if you look at, okay.
Speaker: Design teams too.
Speaker: So yeah,
Speaker: Borg is a little bit of the wild card because you have Elwynn who basically does his own rules and Rick, like that's the team.
Speaker: You have Richie and Tim Sexton.
Speaker: And then you have, okay, so Borg.
Speaker: Borg is the one who kind of goes through a different, you know, a few.
Speaker: I mean, there's Dwight, there's Lonnie and there's the other guy who hasn't done anything in a long time.
Speaker: So
Speaker: So is Lyman is Lyman done?
Speaker: Is Lyman done coding or does, does Lyman just come out for big product, big projects?
Speaker: And if there's a big project coming up, maybe that's an interesting question.
Speaker: If there's a big game coming up that warrants the Elwin treatment tree, sorry, the,
Speaker: Try that again.
Speaker: If there's a big game that warrants a Lyman code deep dive, like what is it?
Speaker: And the last basic game that he has done has been Walking Dead, right?
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And then he did Batman 66, which we know was a crazy deep rule set.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And he changed that game from being a dog to a very coveted game.
Speaker: did the same thing with walking dead.
Speaker: I'll point out and he's done Elvira.
Speaker: So is there another big game that's coming out for him?
Speaker: Well, and here's the other thing.
Speaker: I really didn't put much thought into this until now.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: Dwight was on code for turtles, but now he's on Mandalorian.
Speaker: So that leaves John Borg free.
Speaker: Well, not free, but obviously the, they usually work in teams.
Speaker: Like they usually don't really switch up who they're using.
Speaker: What was Lonnie's last name?
Speaker: Stranger things was the last thing that Lonnie Ropp worked on.
Speaker: And that's been, that was 2019.
Speaker: Well, that was okay.
Speaker: So two years.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So legitimately he could be, he could be available for that.
Speaker: Well, it looks like Lonnie typically works with John Borg, too.
Speaker: Yeah, so that could be good.
Speaker: Oh, hey, Aerosmith, that's another John Borg game, so that's another music pin.
Speaker: Oh, jeez, man.
Speaker: Okay, so, yeah.
Speaker: All right, yeah.
Speaker: Oh, guess what?
Speaker: I might be a little tired.
Speaker: I was up all night.
Speaker: Kiss with Lonnie Robb and John Borg.
Speaker: All right, I was legitimately up all night, so I apologize.
Speaker: I know you're fine, Captain.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, so...
Speaker: I think that it sounds, it sounds like there's a, there's a good chance.
Speaker: And I'm, I'm also just wondering what Lonnie's are not.
Speaker: So what, what Lyman's next game really would be then.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Cause that, he's got to fit into the pipeline somehow.
Speaker: He can't, but he can't be resurrecting old code on everything.
Speaker: But you look at the timeline though too.
Speaker: And it looks like Lyman's,
Speaker: His window is getting longer and longer.
Speaker: Like from walking dead to Batman was like two years.
Speaker: And from Batman to fire was three years.
Speaker: I'm not saying it's gonna be four years till his next game, but we're looking two to three years, which I mean, it still puts us.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Avira came out.
Speaker: Was it last?
Speaker: Yeah, it was last, last Halloween.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Last October.
Speaker: So who knows?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I have a hard time believing that Elwin's game.
Speaker: And I could be wrong because last time we had Elwin on, he said that game four was already in the bag and he was already, was he working on the Whitewood for five?
Speaker: Like he was.
Speaker: Well, I think he's a machine.
Speaker: I think I, okay, let's, okay.
Speaker: I'll put on my Elwin fanboy hat.
Speaker: I mean, he's, he's a savant at gift at designing.
Speaker: I mean, he's really just unbelievable.
Speaker: He hasn't had a dog yet.
Speaker: Um, so is, does he just have that many rabbits in the hat?
Speaker: Um, probably actually.
Speaker: Probably.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: This is a man that knows his, well, and it's crazy.
Speaker: Like, um, we did the Steve Ritchie episode and I'm trying to think, I can't remember what it was.
Speaker: Oh, we talked about the, uh, the jets versus the pop bumpers or the thumper bumpers or whatever.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And we were trying to talk about the history of that.
Speaker: And like,
Speaker: Richie really couldn't remember and we really weren't getting a straight answer.
Speaker: Elwin had messaged me within 24 hours that we had released that and gave me the exact information on it.
Speaker: I was like, oh, dang, dude.
Speaker: Like, with references and everything.
Speaker: Remind me what it was.
Speaker: I guess you didn't share it with me, huh?
Speaker: Well, we talked about it.
Speaker: Well, I don't.
Speaker: Yeah, I didn't.
Speaker: That's okay.
Speaker: That's okay.
Speaker: I mean, you're Ellen's BFF.
Speaker: It's all good.
Speaker: I'm just the millhouse to your Bart.
Speaker: It's fine.
Speaker: Yeah, it just was talking about how...
Speaker: Because we were talking about where did the name jets versus jet bumpers versus the jet bumper or jet bumper versus what were the pop bumpers.
Speaker: And so he had sent over Reno.
Speaker: It's a pinball machine from forever ago.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: That is a legendary pinball machine that literally three people have.
Speaker: That will.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Interesting.
Speaker: It was released in 1957.
Speaker: But that's what's crazy to me is like is like Keith knows this like right off the top of his head.
Speaker: And it was like, boom, here you go.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I think that's why, what makes him such a great designers because he can take concepts from past games and make new concepts or twists on them.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And that's what we want.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So speaking of new twists, I mean, we have talked about this.
Speaker: If the suspected theme is going to be Godzilla, is it too close to a dinosaur game?
Speaker: Dinosaur game.
Speaker: It makes me nervous.
Speaker: Yeah, it really does.
Speaker: Does he have, does he have a brontosaurus head that moves in the right side?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, and it depends because I know that they said that they got the new Godzilla theme and the old Toho.
Speaker: I don't know how well Toho would sell.
Speaker: Looking at Ultraman and it's selling out in a day at $750, it might not be an issue.
Speaker: It may be.
Speaker: And the funny thing is I actually know someone who like he got it and I started talking to him about it.
Speaker: I was like, wow, that's really crazy.
Speaker: So, you know, that's that's just so funny that, you know, it's Tim Purcell.
Speaker: He and he has a he has a Guns N' Roses collector's edition.
Speaker: And he told me he got an Ultraman.
Speaker: I was like, really?
Speaker: Like, OK, like I have never heard of this game.
Speaker: Or this theme, excuse me.
Speaker: So, huh, that's, that's crazy.
Speaker: So yeah, who knows?
Speaker: Maybe, yeah, you're right.
Speaker: Maybe the, the Toho version is the gateway to Japan or whatever.
Speaker: Well, and I guess there are two entirely different themes.
Speaker: Let's think about that way.
Speaker: Like, are you going to go goofy?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: old school, more like dinosaurs wrestling versus the new stuff that's like more realistic, as realistic as you can be with monsters destroying cities and attacking each other and go for that realism because Jurassic Park feels realistic to me.
Speaker: Like they go for that realism.
Speaker: Like you could believe that scientists had actually done this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Versus.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Toho where there's a Godzilla dropping an elbow on, on one of the bad guys, you know?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And do you really think that that would fly with today's audience?
Speaker: Like the stop motion photography, like the Jason and the Argonauts.
Speaker: I maybe power Rangers is still huge power Rangers.
Speaker: Are you serious?
Speaker: It's still, it's still, yeah.
Speaker: Power Rangers is huge and it's kind of the same concept.
Speaker: You think about it.
Speaker: Didn't one of the Rangers like get arrested for like killing someone?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I don't, I don't keep up on that, dude.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But this, this was like one of the actors from like 30 years ago, like got arrested for something bad.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker: I still am one of those that don't understand monster movies because it feels like I've seen them.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It's okay.
Speaker: But I am first to admit that when Rick and Morty was announced, I was just like, what the world?
Speaker: I hadn't even heard of Rick and Morty aside from Ryan C saying he would love it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think back to the original question, I think it all depends the toys that you integrate and how you use them.
Speaker: If you have Godzilla eating the ball, then yes, it's too close to Jurassic Park.
Speaker: And Keith, that one knows that.
Speaker: He's not going to be like, well, let's just slap another Godzilla on there and have him eat the ball.
Speaker: I did that two games ago.
Speaker: Okay, by the way, I love that.
Speaker: I think that's awesome.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's a total reskin.
Speaker: It's like a total reskin of Jurassic Park.
Speaker: They're like, no, it's totally Godzilla.
Speaker: That would be hilarious.
Speaker: That's what Stern should do just to mess with us, right?
Speaker: Troll us entirely.
Speaker: They should just send a picture, like new artwork just laid over the top of Jurassic Park.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And like the Raptor Tower could be Mothra's lair or something like that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The Hydra scoop on the Hydra right ramp or something.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Did you see this?
Speaker: I totally must have missed this, but Godzilla came out in 2019.
Speaker: Did you see that?
Speaker: I own it.
Speaker: It's good.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: King of Monsters?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So, okay.
Speaker: I felt like... Okay, please tell me it was like an over-the-top where he had a wrestling match with one of the... No, it wasn't.
Speaker: It was good.
Speaker: So the first Godzilla is good.
Speaker: I actually enjoyed the King Kong movie that came out, Skull Island, a lot better.
Speaker: But then like the third one that was like Godzilla, maybe it was Godzilla King of Monsters.
Speaker: I thought it was a little much.
Speaker: And then now they've come out with Godzilla versus King Kong.
Speaker: I haven't seen it yet.
Speaker: I've heard mixed reviews.
Speaker: Yeah, wow.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: That's crazy.
Speaker: We'll have a movie night.
Speaker: You'll just come up, bring the kids over, we'll watch the first Godzilla.
Speaker: It's decent.
Speaker: My son loved it.
Speaker: Okay, all right.
Speaker: It's just like I still remember the like my friend.
Speaker: I was totally jealous of this, which just shows how low the bar was for my childhood that he had like one of those Godzilla toys.
Speaker: And I'm not kidding, like the coolest.
Speaker: It was about 18 inches to two feet tall.
Speaker: It was a big toy.
Speaker: But the coolest thing about it is like you'd hit a button on his arm and it would shoot his hand off and like hit something.
Speaker: It was like, that was a cool toy back when I grew up, which is probably why like stickball was still popular.
Speaker: So you went shocked me about Kong skull Island actually was the cast.
Speaker: It has an actually really good cast.
Speaker: um i don't know where they got the money for if these guys just took a little bit less money uh tom hilston the guy that plays loki brie larson the lady that plays captain marvel samuel jackson do i even have to say what he's played in wow john goodman john c reilly from stepbrothers and and all those other movies i mean there was just a really good cast to this movie and i just
Speaker: Maybe that's why it was better.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It just, it was good.
Speaker: You've got classic Samuel L. Jackson and that just going off, you know?
Speaker: Yeah, it's just so weird.
Speaker: Okay, I am going to show you a picture.
Speaker: I'm going to send you a picture of this toy, and you will see how stupid it is.
Speaker: Okay, are you at your computer?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Okay, so look up Godzilla Shogun Toho Warriors Mattel 1977.
Speaker: Okay, let's check this out.
Speaker: Travel back to the groovies 1970s with the Shogun Warriors Godzilla.
Speaker: Groovy.
Speaker: Made to replicate the original design, the Shogun Warriors Godzilla features flicking tongue action, rolling wheels under his feet, and a firing right fist stands 18 inches tall.
Speaker: Okay, so I just sent you a link.
Speaker: Seriously, look at how stupid this toy was.
Speaker: And that was a cool toy back in the day.
Speaker: You can shoot off both of Godzilla's fists.
Speaker: The side profile looks terrible.
Speaker: The head portion to the body is just not right.
Speaker: This thing's weird.
Speaker: Yeah, I know.
Speaker: It looks like a lizard man thing.
Speaker: So anyway, see, okay, the only reason why I bring up that terrible toy is because I don't know if the old version, the old campy version would sell.
Speaker: you know what you slap good art on it.
Speaker: You may, you get a really good artist behind it, which by the way, if, if this is Elwin, then we do know that the artist with him would be zombie Yeti.
Speaker: And that's because it was announced on.
Speaker: It was, it was talked about before, you know, it was, I want to say it was on the back box pinball podcast.
Speaker: And this was like a year ago or more.
Speaker: Okay, I'm sure that Zombie Yeti can do an awesome job with Godzilla because he's done, well, okay, what hasn't he done an awesome job with?
Speaker: But yeah, that's, it's one of those where this is the theme that it doesn't do anything for me, but I will buy any Keith game.
Speaker: So I would.
Speaker: Here we go.
Speaker: So we know that CGC is going to come out with Cactus Canyon.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: The rumored Cactus Canyon soon.
Speaker: Or it's possibly Elwin with Godzilla.
Speaker: Which one do you choose?
Speaker: See, I would choose Godzilla just because of Elwin, though.
Speaker: And just because every single game that I've played of his I think is...
Speaker: it's such a different approach and it feels different than any other game I've played.
Speaker: And it's just not Keith Elwin.
Speaker: I mean, Rick Nangle and his team that he gets behind him when he's doing software, I know that he's kind of following what Keith tells him to do, but let's be honest, like his code is very, very solid.
Speaker: I've never been playing a Keith Elwin game and all of a sudden the game just stops and reboots.
Speaker: Or I hit something and it freezes up the game.
Speaker: And I've had that issue with other games, like other software programmers.
Speaker: I don't want to single anyone out.
Speaker: Yeah, that's a good idea.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: It's, uh, it always feels very, it's a ready game.
Speaker: There's a reason why people win a, an L one game come, it comes out.
Speaker: They're like, Hey, let's put it in the tournament.
Speaker: And even Keith's like, no dude, this is not tournament ready, but his level of tournament ready versus other people's I think is different.
Speaker: But that's the thing though.
Speaker: Like with Avengers, I got it pretty much.
Speaker: It was a couple of months after it came out.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: But from the day I started playing it, even though the code wasn't complete, it wasn't 1.0 and all the modes were in there, I still felt like I could explore the game to a good point of it.
Speaker: Like I never hit the end of the road and the game frees up and start over.
Speaker: And I've had that with other games.
Speaker: And so that's why I'm like, the team that runs with Keith, that one is just, it's fire.
Speaker: Like they are, that's the thing is like,
Speaker: I thought about it and I'm like, do I really still want Mando with when I know Keith Iwan's game is going to be coming out here soon?
Speaker: I think Mandalorian, you can always, you can always sell on if you don't like it.
Speaker: But I think the theme is really well integrated.
Speaker: I guess I'll put it that way.
Speaker: So I went to an ice cream parlor today and,
Speaker: And they had a Rothrill's game.
Speaker: They had a Galaga.
Speaker: They also had a Star Wars Pro and they had a, um, a Mandalorian Pro and they were on free play, which was just shocking to me, but it was, I know it was fun.
Speaker: Like you could play those things and, and,
Speaker: And I got a little bit, I know he set, I'm sure he hasn't changed any of the settings, but I got replays every time.
Speaker: So I felt like I was advancing things pretty well.
Speaker: And I was able to understand the code, even though I've only played like five games on it.
Speaker: So yeah, I think it will still be a seller.
Speaker: I can't tell you how many times people have
Speaker: When they find out you're into pinball and then I tell them the latest themes, they always light up.
Speaker: Wait, the Mandalorian.
Speaker: I, yeah.
Speaker: Tell me more.
Speaker: So again, what did you say?
Speaker: Theme cells.
Speaker: Theme that it's, that's the secret sauce.
Speaker: It really is.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's not a secret.
Speaker: It's the obvi sauce.
Speaker: It's, it's, it's the pickle sauce on top of the Big Mac.
Speaker: All it is is like pickled juice with mustard or whatever.
Speaker: I love that commercial.
Speaker: It's like, we have secret sauce.
Speaker: They're like, isn't that just like Thousand Island?
Speaker: They're like, shh.
Speaker: It's like, what's the secret sauce?
Speaker: Well, we have themes.
Speaker: Oh, shh.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Shh.
Speaker: Don't talk about it.
Speaker: Don't give away the secrets.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: No, I'm looking forward to anything that's coming out.
Speaker: It stinks because like...
Speaker: I remember being able to just browse Pinside and being like, oh, well, I want to see how many shadows are available.
Speaker: And you'd go on there and there'd be four or five.
Speaker: And you'd laugh at the ones that are like $1,000 more than what's
Speaker: the average price on pin side.
Speaker: And now you came and find a shadow on pin side.
Speaker: No, you can't.
Speaker: And so, but I think we are starting to hit an, like a, I mean, apex, a peak, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker: Um, because I'm starting to see what, I don't think it can go up anymore.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I, and it seems like it is.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I would argue it's probably risen to the level.
Speaker: It should be.
Speaker: Um, I, I still think that Stern has always sold a, a, a,
Speaker: ridiculously competitively priced professional game for their pros.
Speaker: Their premiums are probably more like right priced, but they're pro if that's exactly what you want.
Speaker: It's still an arcade level game that you can put in your home.
Speaker: And they have some pretty crazy things in there.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: So it's, it's probably just getting up to where it should be.
Speaker: And I, and we saw that the collector's edition showed that there was a premium premium and ultra premium market.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, well, I, I think the other thing too is, is people start to freak out when one of these machines sell for high dollar, but what about the machines that come after it?
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: My example is Medieval Madness.
Speaker: I know a Medieval Madness LE just sold for like $16,000 a couple months ago.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But still, like after the fact now...
Speaker: I go on there and people are having a hard time selling at 12.
Speaker: Like one of them sold at 12 just recently.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so there's usually a story behind that one.
Speaker: Or there was someone who... It was laughable.
Speaker: Like someone said they were selling... It was a game for like $70,000 and it said or best offer.
Speaker: I can't even remember what it was.
Speaker: But it was just like, wow, okay, they're really setting that high.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think when we start seeing these games sell for a consistent high dollar, like a consistent, like Tron, we, we know the story about the Tron that happened a month or two ago.
Speaker: It sold for like $25,000.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I guess it was really, what, like, why did it sell for that high?
Speaker: I never figured that out.
Speaker: It just, it was an Ellie and it was really, really nice.
Speaker: Like it was, it was like your pro, but an Ellie.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Great.
Speaker: So it has Daft Punk multi-ball.
Speaker: That's 10 grand.
Speaker: Boom.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Boom.
Speaker: But how many Trons have sold for that much since then?
Speaker: No, exactly.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so I think that's the problem is we tend to take the pinball market at its highest peak and lock it into that and say, well, how dare they sell for this much?
Speaker: Like I saw on Facebook the other day that this person posted on Pinball Enthusiasts.
Speaker: And they're like, I am quitting the hobby and I will come back when prices decide to finally go down.
Speaker: You people are price gouging and this is ridiculous.
Speaker: They've been saying that for years.
Speaker: Like I, I, ever since I've been in.
Speaker: Bye.
Speaker: What else?
Speaker: What else do you say?
Speaker: Like, okay.
Speaker: Like, so, oh no, you're holding out your money.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Good luck.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And as long as there's the demand there, like Zach was talking about this on the pinball show last week or this week.
Speaker: It's like the problem is now is like people are jumping on waiting lists for games that haven't even been announced yet.
Speaker: Well, and I think that that's what's going on.
Speaker: People are still interested in that stuff.
Speaker: So, okay.
Speaker: So I just tried to look on Pinside and the highest you can put in is $50,000, just in case you're wondering.
Speaker: Oh, I was.
Speaker: And thank you.
Speaker: Yeah, there you go.
Speaker: So you're not allowed to sell over $50,000.
Speaker: So everyone out there listening right now.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Move it to eBay and take the ridiculous hit that eBay is going to hit you with to sell your pinball machine on there.
Speaker: I only heard what people buy from eBay anyway.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, it's the Matrix.
Speaker: That's what it was.
Speaker: So it was like, you know, obviously this is a reskin, right?
Speaker: But it was $75,000 or best offered.
Speaker: They're like, is Keanu Reeves in the cabinet?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's his future coffin.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: He gets to be buried in this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: So, there's someone.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So, the top ones.
Speaker: Someone's trying to sell a Pirates of the Caribbean CE for 38,500.
Speaker: That's firm.
Speaker: How long has it been setting?
Speaker: When was it posted?
Speaker: 41 days ago.
Speaker: Is it a repost?
Speaker: He's totally trying to rip us off.
Speaker: It's laser kid.
Speaker: Come on.
Speaker: uh the pirates of the le that's thirty thousand dollars there's a tron my alternate name dude i'm laser kid what i'm trying to rip people off i don't laser yeah uh tron le for 22 000 or best offered pirates of the caribbean city yeah these are all 37 39 days the adams family new old stock
Speaker: Feature, okay, this is from, I don't even know what country this is.
Speaker: Germany?
Speaker: $55,000 or best offer.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Uh, okay.
Speaker: So basically that, that guy who left the market is not coming back.
Speaker: If these things are selling.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: See, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker: Like that there's people hear one of these selling and they freak out and it's like, well, that's not what they're all selling for.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And if prices right raise, they're not raising by $3,000.
Speaker: It's like, you know, you can still like whitewater.
Speaker: You used to get it for six and now you can get it for like seven or, or, you know, something like that.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I just, I think really at this point, it's like, there's just not enough supply to meet the demand.
Speaker: That's the problem we're having.
Speaker: That's the biggest problem.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And they can't churn them out fast enough because of parts supplies and all that jazz.
Speaker: And like, I don't really want to get into it, but the whole COVID thing and, oh, I just, it's annoying.
Speaker: Like it really is.
Speaker: Like, do you think that five years ago,
Speaker: pinball people are setting like they're like oh these these games are gonna be worth this much money and you won't be able to get one anymore because they just there's gonna be waiting lines for sterns and it just yeah i think no one knew this was gonna happen do you think as people start spending money on travel do you think that they will start selling these games to fund other things
Speaker: I think so.
Speaker: Yeah, I think.
Speaker: I think honestly, we're at we're at a weird intersection.
Speaker: I think either the people that were stuck at home for covid have bought the pinball machine that they want.
Speaker: They might get the silver bullet itch and want more or they'll just be like, yeah, I'm glad we got one.
Speaker: Now we can get back to traveling the world or whatever it may be.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: So I, I actually booked, we made the mistake of telling our kids that we were thinking of going to Hawaii and they immediately said, yes, you're taking us.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So, so yes, we're taking our kids.
Speaker: So that was never the plan, but I guess it is now, right?
Speaker: It is now.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But speaking of supply and demand, what they want for rental cars is crazy right now.
Speaker: And like for eight days, like the price that we were quoted was 1200 bucks for a rental car.
Speaker: And so it's like, uh, okay.
Speaker: Like, um, what am I going to go to Hawaii?
Speaker: Look, I'm not going to come to Hawaii until you like lower your prices.
Speaker: Uh, yeah.
Speaker: So I, I, so I just looked at cars, uh, at the time that I booked them and guess what?
Speaker: Not available.
Speaker: They're all booked out.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So we just live in a crazy time.
Speaker: I think the problem is, is it's so hard to predict.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And that's exactly what you're saying is that all bets are off because we have never went through something like this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Pinball's never been through anything like this ever.
Speaker: It's been around for a hundred years and granted because the market has shifted towards being a home market.
Speaker: It is like this now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And, and granted they might not be selling the numbers that they were back in the early nineties, late eighties, but still it has never been this way.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But the product has been significantly better.
Speaker: It really has.
Speaker: Even with all the challenges with new pinball machines, you cannot compare the complexity of Avengers Infinity Quest or Guns N' Roses or something like that to a Adam Sandley.
Speaker: You just can't do that.
Speaker: That's ridiculous.
Speaker: So I guess it begs one question.
Speaker: I know we're kind of getting out of time here.
Speaker: It begs one question that I've really thought about this last couple of days.
Speaker: What is the next thing that helps drive pinball to, to advance?
Speaker: Or are we at that point of you can't advance pinball any further than what it has?
Speaker: So like, if you really think about innovation over the last even 20 years has been what the LCD screen.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, really at this point, it's more complex rules and better game design is what's driving the hobby.
Speaker: Was the pin bar really the future?
Speaker: Like, do you think that the pin bar could advance?
Speaker: Like, granted, let's say Deep Root sells it to someone else.
Speaker: Let's say the pin bar becomes a thing at American Pinball or CGC, for heaven's sakes.
Speaker: Do you really think advances the industry...
Speaker: into a whole new direction or do you think it's just a gimmick um what will take it to the next direction will definitely be um like internet challenges that is absolutely what it is it's the i this is totally at the end of the show but um absolutely if you're like hey um i want to challenge you to a game and there's a way that you can verify your setup
Speaker: Um, or at least have like, you know, it could be an honor system thing.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But there, there are definitely ways that you can do it and compete online or, or co-compete.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You could do a, a, Hey, uh, you and I are both going to attack Thanos or something like that.
Speaker: But that is definitely where the, uh, where it's going to be.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker: I think that's probably what pushes it next.
Speaker: And after listening to the Gary Stern interview that happened just this last week, it sounds like something huge is coming.
Speaker: They're claiming that they've got something that's going to reinvent the wheel, essentially, for pinball.
Speaker: And they've been working on this internet thing for a while now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Let's see what happens.
Speaker: So, you know, but I, it will, things like that will happen.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: Hey, good news.
Speaker: I can, I can rent a Lamborghini for 1400 a day.
Speaker: Where are you going to put your kids though?
Speaker: Who cares?
Speaker: They're staying home.
Speaker: It's a Lamborghini.
Speaker: It's a Lamborghini in the trunk.
Speaker: So I'm kidding.
Speaker: I know Lamborghinis don't have trunks.
Speaker: So, you know,
Speaker: You got to put the engine somewhere.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Is there anything else we want to cover?
Speaker: I mean, we're at the end of the show.
Speaker: No, we're kind of spitballing.
Speaker: This has been kind of a brainstorm show just because we are at a little bit of a lull, the summer lull.
Speaker: And I totally understand it.
Speaker: We...
Speaker: we already talked about Spooky has had their big push.
Speaker: And we talked about that last time, their big sellout.
Speaker: We're still, you know, JJP, there's not going to be much until they are able to catch up on all their Guns N' Roses stuff.
Speaker: So really...
Speaker: Sorry, that brings up one last question.
Speaker: Do you think that they've gotten a big enough black eye from the playfield issues that they've had and with the response that they've had?
Speaker: Do you think it hurts their business going forward?
Speaker: Or are we pretty much at the point of stuff's going to sell so long as it's themed properly?
Speaker: I actually think it has.
Speaker: Because high-end collectors who are willing to drop...
Speaker: $12,000 on a toy.
Speaker: I mean, come on, a pinball machine is a luxury item, right?
Speaker: You do not need a pinball machine, right?
Speaker: It is not one of the things that are necessary for life.
Speaker: But they expect a level of professionalism that you get a
Speaker: a game that doesn't need to have all these little issues.
Speaker: And yeah, I actually think they're going to have to do some, some catch up.
Speaker: Cause now the, the rumored next theme, right.
Speaker: Is toy story.
Speaker: Do you think toy story has the same drawing power as guns and roses?
Speaker: Because I don't.
Speaker: Possibly.
Speaker: I don't.
Speaker: I think it's a cute theme, but I think their issues with the play fields on Guns N' Roses are going to bleed into Toy Story.
Speaker: And people are going to be cautious.
Speaker: Now, people were cautious when the triple spinning disc on Pirates of the Caribbean.
Speaker: And so they sold less of them.
Speaker: And therefore they became more valuable, ironically.
Speaker: So it could ultimately help the resale market maybe.
Speaker: But I think that, you know, I get, I want every machine to succeed.
Speaker: Every machine and every company, I really do want them to succeed.
Speaker: It just seems that every time JJP releases a game, there's always something.
Speaker: And it's not a minor thing.
Speaker: It ends up being a major thing.
Speaker: So I think people are nervous.
Speaker: At least I, okay, I'm nervous.
Speaker: If I were buying a JJP, I'd be nervous.
Speaker: Same here.
Speaker: It's definitely made me hesitate.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know if that's fair, but I don't think I'm an outlier on that.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: It definitely, uh, you definitely second thing you second guess in my opinion.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Uh, I could be wrong.
Speaker: Don't get me wrong.
Speaker: I love JJP games.
Speaker: I love, they are definitely an experience.
Speaker: They are, they are an experience compared to any other pinball machine.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But you would have, you have to take into account all this stuff, right?
Speaker: And so that's really what it comes down to, is that it's, you know, you eventually, if you're paying that much for a machine, you don't want to have issues.
Speaker: So now that being said, Pirates is a fun game.
Speaker: It's a fun game.
Speaker: And Guns N' Roses is an experience.
Speaker: So at least they have their secret sauce.
Speaker: They just need to fix the manufacturing secret sauce.
Speaker: That's really where their issues have been.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: So you fix that problem.
Speaker: I think it alleviates the other.
Speaker: I think they're still doing fine.
Speaker: I literally think they're still doing a great job.
Speaker: So it's not like they're still have a good trajectory.
Speaker: Alrighty.
Speaker: Well, if you want to get ahold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: You can get ahold of us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter at loser kid pinball.
Speaker: We are also on Twitch now.
Speaker: Uh, when I do decide to stream, I will probably be streaming this next week.
Speaker: Uh, because, um, my wife and son are going to go to Yellowstone with my in-laws.
Speaker: And I get to stay home with the babies, so I'll be putting them down for bed and probably jumping on a pinball machine or two.
Speaker: So look it out for that.
Speaker: We'll definitely have the challenges.
Speaker: I'll probably even try to do the challenges myself since I own both Avengers Infinity Quest and World Cup Soccer.
Speaker: I think that might be fun to do on stream.
Speaker: We do have another batch of hats.
Speaker: There won't be a ton of them.
Speaker: I will be saving one for the giveaway.
Speaker: I'm trying to think what else.
Speaker: Okay, remind them what the giveaway is again.
Speaker: Oh, yes.
Speaker: So PinQuest.
Speaker: Download PinQuest for your phone.
Speaker: Android, Apple, whatever it may be.
Speaker: PinQuest.
Speaker: It's best if you go to the website, and they'll just redirect you right to where it needs to be.
Speaker: Download the app, make yourself an account.
Speaker: There's challenges monthly, and it's going to be called the guest host challenge, if I remember correctly.
Speaker: So click on the guest host, like the mystery guest host.
Speaker: It will be us, and then you accept the challenge.
Speaker: And if you beat the score we've set for Avengers and for World Cup,
Speaker: you will get an entry for each score you do.
Speaker: Not, sorry, not each score.
Speaker: For each time you've beat that.
Speaker: Crap, not like that.
Speaker: If you accomplish that high score on those two games, then you'll get two entries.
Speaker: If you only accomplish on one game, you'll get one entry.
Speaker: But you'll get a virtual trophy no matter what, if you do.
Speaker: All right, there we go.
Speaker: With our little logo on it.
Speaker: Is there anything else I could have swore?
Speaker: Maybe there's not.
Speaker: Problem is it's been a busy summer.
Speaker: Gosh, dang it.
Speaker: Yeah, no, it's in seriously, we, we try to record as, as often as we can, but I've taken like two, uh, two, one week vacations and they've been local, but trying to spend family time at the same time.
Speaker: And yeah, it's just challenging.
Speaker: So, but you know what the good news is we, Hey, we are willing to give you loser kid pod podcast content as soon as we can.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And, and Glenn has a question for you, Scott.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Check it out.
Speaker: We've given him a shout out already once today, or I'm going to give him one more.
Speaker: You ready for this?
Speaker: All right, go ahead.
Speaker: He wants, he wants to know how it's going to be, if it's going to be weird having your biggest fan as your expo roommate.
Speaker: Well, you're my ex-girlfriend, Josh, so you're my biggest fan.
Speaker: Are you going to start singing Edwin McCann?
Speaker: I'll be your crying shoulder.
Speaker: Actually, I will say, big shout-out to Glenn.
Speaker: Glenn did have a...
Speaker: room with our friend Lee and Lee actually got called to go back east so he is not like when I say back east I mean the far east he's going to Asia and so he asked us he's like hey why can you contact Glenn and see so we do have a place at the hotel which is great and so all three of us are going to kumbaya in there we haven't really figured out who's big spoon or little spoon or if we're going to spork it but I'm not really sure but we'll figure something out
Speaker: when Glen has insisted that we get the king size bed instead of the two queens.
Speaker: Oh, awkward.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We're going to sleep like a triangle.
Speaker: Have you ever seen Without a Paddle?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Watch Without a Paddle.
Speaker: I can't believe you've never seen that movie.
Speaker: Okay, is this something that my wife's going to raise her eyebrow at me?
Speaker: Like, what are you doing?
Speaker: It's PG-13.
Speaker: It's appropriate.
Speaker: I can't yell, put Jabba back in his hut, because you won't get the reference.
Speaker: Okay, all right.
Speaker: I'll have to figure that out.
Speaker: that'd be a great pinball theme.
Speaker: We should go without a paddle.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: A wreathing of whitewater, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, it was a mediocre movie at best for popcorn fodder back in the 2000s.
Speaker: It's still good.
Speaker: It's just, if you're looking for something that you may or may not want to be on your phone with while you're watching it.
Speaker: Oh, it's got Seth Green.
Speaker: If you like Seth Green.
Speaker: Oh, there you go.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: All right, guys.
Speaker: We'll check out in about two weeks.
Speaker: Thanks again.
Speaker: All right, two weeks.
