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Episode 60 - A Rivalries Special with The Daily Liverpool - Part 1/2
30 Plays1 month ago
On today’s episode, Kieran and Niall accept an invitation from the Daily Liverpool’s Jesse Sarwar and Karl Coppack to take a look back at what makes this rivalry so intense and so memorable for all fans involved.
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Transcript
Crossover Episode Announcement
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Daily Manchester United Podcast. It's Kieran here telling you that today it's a special one-off episode. Myself and Nar Hanigan, we went over to the Daily Liverpool to, well, have a bit of a special podcast idea. Jesse invited us on to talk about the past rivalry between the two clubs, the iconic moments, and who we as two clubs consider our biggest rivals, and shock horror, we sort of considered each other.
00:00:26
Speaker
So Jesse Sarwar and Karl Coppock graciously hosted us in this hour long segment. It's not going to be an hour long episode. We're going to split it into two parts. So part one today, make sure you do tune into part two tomorrow. And if this is a special episode you do enjoy, please do let us know. We love to know what sort of content you like to hear. So if you like it, make sure you give us a rating, give us some comments as well. In the meantime, though, I shall leave you in the very capable hands of Liverpool's Jesse Sarwar and enjoy today's part one of a special.
Introduction to Rivalry Discussion
00:00:57
Speaker
Every club. Every day. The Global Sports Podcast Network. work Hello and welcome to the Daily Liverpool Podcast brought to you by the Global Sports Podcast Network. I'm your host today, Jesse Sawa, and as the international break continues, we're continuing with some special episodes to get you through this period before the real football returns at the weekend. Liverpool and Manchester United are the two biggest clubs in English football. See you fans, cover your ears now. In fact, what you're doing here at the Liverpool Podcast and The two Northwest Giants have 39 top flight titles between them, 20 for United, 19 for Liverpool, and nine Champions League titles, six for the Reds and three for United. I enjoyed that stat in particular. um I'm joined by daily Liverpool regular Karl Kopak. How are we Mr. Kopak?
00:01:56
Speaker
i'm I'm very well and I've got lots of dates about the 1860 laws of blah, blah, blah. I'm ready i'm going old school on this one about the rivalry. He's ready. he's He's ready for this one. And I'm delighted i'm worry always there this information yeah exactly i'm delighted to welcome from GSPN's daily Manchester United podcast team, Kieran and Niall to the episode to talk all things Liverpool and United, our shared rivalry and history.
00:02:22
Speaker
Two new managers at the helm and look ahead to what the rest of this season may hold in store for both our clubs. Kieran, welcome to the Daily Liverpool Podcast. How are you?
Historical Context and Significance
00:02:33
Speaker
i'd say i It's good to be here. were a Weird statement to say as a United fan, but yes, good to be here. Good to reminisce. I think Niall and I have been saying on previous episodes that we're loving to reminisce at the moment. In fact, that was one of our last Wild Card Wednesday episodes. So we're very good at that, aren't we, Niall?
00:02:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's about doing anything that we are good at the moment. So how's it going? Now, welcome to the podcast. I'm sure you've always wanted to appear on the Daily Liverpool. Yeah, I thought I was on the wrong episode there when you introduced the show. But yeah, I'm starting to realise that I'm in for a rough hour here. So yeah, it's not really helped now by the fact that you've got your team name in brackets just to talk. I was going to mention that, but yeah, I waited for Carl to get in. Two forty-firsts as usual. I named the wall there. I think it was still there from the Daily EPL podcast I went on during the week with the guys over at that episode. So they were like, you know, you need to clarify what team you're from. I was like, I don't really want to put it in, but I'll just stick it down anyway.
00:03:37
Speaker
Alright, I want to start off with the nature of this um rivalry, what we think of each other, obviously we'll keep it clean, and what this what does this rivalry mean in the age of a a dominant Manchester City? um Kieran, your thoughts first, how do you look at this rivalry between Liverpool and Manchester United?
Rivalry's Relevance Today
00:03:57
Speaker
It's always been fierce, hasn't it, ever since pretty much the the first meeting really went back when it was Newton Heath. And even on that day, Liverpool still won. I'm just looking it up now. So, you know, start as you mean to go on. But I mean, yeah, it's been it's been a fixture and a fixture list that's had a bit of everything. You know, we've we've had some iconic moments such as ah Gerard being sent off on his last appearance for ah Liverpool against Manchester United, seconds after coming on. We've had even Vidic as well being sent off, I think, late 2000s. Yeah, a few times, yeah. yeah three three five ago Three times, yeah. Yeah, thanks thanks for that, Carl. Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's one of those rivalries that you're not going to, it will never die down. I think the one with Arsenal has
00:04:40
Speaker
been to Simmer, I think that was more between managers, you know Ferguson and Wenger, but the Liverpool rivalry, that will never die as long as it goes. And as you said, even in this dominant city period, it kind of means a lot more that Liverpool are up there challenging for titles. you know Liverpool have got a more recent Premier League title than Manchester United, so if we can get one over Liverpool every now and again, that'd be nice. And I think in this period where it is rebuilding for 11 years,
00:05:08
Speaker
It is quite nice to actually get a result over Liverpool every now and again. So I still think it matters. It matters even more so than ah than previous years. Yeah. Look, Liverpool have been through that rebuild as well ah for for a long time. um And you mentioned Arsenal. I think you have rivalries that are based on you know going for the title you know so you've had those periods where United went head went head-to-head with Chelsea um so you know whoever's at the top of the table they are your kind of immediate rival as such but there are certain rivalries that transcend that you know you you look at ah abroad as well so it could be Atletico Madrid
00:05:50
Speaker
um in a season who are doing really well, but that Barca-Rayell rivalry just will never go away. Niall, any thoughts ah from you in terms of you know the nature of this rivalry? Yeah, similar to what Kieran was saying, I think it's massive. and For me, it's probably I'm surrounded by my friends who are all Liverpool fans, so that's that's probably, ah in a way, it makes it even more intense. What happened to you then, Niall? What happened to you?
00:06:16
Speaker
Yeah, just brought up right. I don't know. I don't know how to explain it. But ah yeah, so that kind of amplifies it a bit, I suppose. um And I had a pretty good childhood, so i'm I'm starting to kind of pay for it now for these these last 10 years. But ah yeah, no, it's um it's as big as anything, really, I think is a good point you mentioned about, you know, teams that are going for the title being new rivals, like Arsenal and City, how how did that become a rivalry? Like it's such a strange thing if you were to say that 20, 25 years ago. um So yeah, it it it is always the way, but I think the, you know, even United City, I would say United Liverpool is is a far bigger match and when you're looking at the calendar at the start of the season. So yeah, there's no there's no way of downplaying the the magnitude of the fixture.
Shared History's Role in the Rivalry
00:07:04
Speaker
Karl, give us a Liverpool perspective. I think
00:07:08
Speaker
I read this a long, long time ago. Basically, if both clubs are relegated to the northwest third division, blah, blah, blah league, and they played a game in a car park in Tesco's on a Tuesday night, it would be sold out. You wouldn't get that with Liverpool man city, you wouldn't get that with my knife at Arsenal. It's, it's historic. And they're the best rivalry. So I, I was I was absolutely don't like a keeper on a previous podcast where I said that Arsenal are not league rivals and there have been league rivals because they are not the level of the pull of Manchester City. And there's an awful lot of people who think that there's a difference between a historic rivalry and a temporary rivalry. So Liverpool, Chelsea, midooth mid to mid 2000s, we played them like once every three weeks. It was ridiculous. The the season where we played them in the League Cup twice in the Champions League. And then obviously the league, you know, we just played them constantly and in court finals and things like that.
00:08:02
Speaker
that to me, I always made the point that oh, yeah, they're our rivals. No, they're not because Blackburn Rovers in the mid 90s, we're not our rivals. They weren't united rivals is a temporary thing. Whereas the Liverpool Manchester railerry is is obviously it goes back pre Victorian times. It's, it's all about, you know, we've got the river, you've got the cotton, you know, it was that sort of thing. Two huge cities 30 miles apart, and we speak incredibly difference. But we've got some things that tie us together, the northern thing, for example. um But ultimately,
00:08:31
Speaker
And it's the the biggest thing for me for this is the day you're far too young from this, but the day of the final season, the final day of the season, 1995. Man United at West Ham, Liverpool at Blackburn. um What do you do? Who do you support there? If Blackburn beat Liverpool, they win the league. Man United don't win the league.
00:08:58
Speaker
that was difficult, that was really, so a lot of people saying are you a Liverpool fan or are you a Man United hater? And the answer is both. And credit to Liverpool, they you know they they showed up on that game in that game. I'll never forget how silent the cop was when ah it ja Jamie Redknapp, great free kick I think it was, I think a lot of people forget how good a free kick that was just because of the got an overall context of the game and you know it being the last game of the season and everything, but so you know
00:09:28
Speaker
um yeah car Cole mentions a lot of interesting ah points there in terms of this kind of shared history and a shared rivalry. And, you know, despite that bitterness, you you do see that commonality. I mean, Matt Busby himself was a former Liverpool player, right, before he went on to great things at United. Both clubs have dominated English football at various points, ah both shaped by powerful Scottish figures, like we've just mentioned Busby, and then you get you have Bill Shankly at Liverpool. Liverpool, I would say, was to have a better record in Europe, but both are very storied.
00:10:06
Speaker
in Europe, iconic reputations in Europe and across the world. They both have huge domestic international fan bases. Both have been touched by tragedy. you know You've got the Munich Air Disaster and Hillsborough had a you know profound impact on both clubs. So Kieran, is it partly this this shared this kind of familiarity and and almost this kind of shared history that bre that helps to breed that contempt, you know, the rivalry that's built over generations. Yeah, I mean, obviously, these are these are two clubs that, as you so as you rightly said, at one point, one part of ah English League history were dominant, the dominant force, everyone was jealous ah of Liverpool, you know, in in throughout the 70s and 80s, you had players like
00:10:55
Speaker
Ian Rush, just phenomenal, ah watching clips back of him just playing on this on this ground that pretty much just bobbled everywhere. The ball bobbled just but aimlessly. And he wasn't even but he wasn't anywhere near the best. and i but even still' here as well Even still to watch back some of those archives in in those matches against Manchester United. I mean, it is great. and I agree that the storied histories between both, you know, just to add to the European ah segment of that, both have phenomenal and almost miraculous European comebacks in in finals. You know, we've got Bayern Munich, you've got in Istanbul. I mean, it's it's phenomenal ah how how kind of similar the the clubs are in their storied history, yet
00:11:41
Speaker
You've got two sets of fans who are, I guess, jealous of each other's success at points. You you said, Jesse, that Liverpool might have the the upper hand in in sort of European competition, and that's that's fair enough. But I would probably say that because of that, both sides, I think, are quite jealous at certain points of each other. And I think that that drives the the sort of rivalry even more. In terms of location, in terms of competition, I think that's why that's why I love this live this this rivalry. It will never go away because both teams will, well, I would say be in and around the top. Both teams have also had their rebuilding
Future Competitive Prospects
00:12:18
Speaker
periods as well. Obviously, yeah Liverpool in the mid 2010s were going through that that such period where they were trying to get into Europe. They were struggling to get into Europe. But I think it was made even sweeter with that
00:12:31
Speaker
signing of Klopp. I was very jealous of that signing because I thought Klopp was a fantastic manager. I wanted Klopp at United. Apparently Ferguson sounded him out for United, didn't he? us yeah Apparently he sounded him out. It hurts even more to the fact that Liverpool then went on to pretty much be the understudy of the city. Whenever the city slipped up, Liverpool were there.
00:12:53
Speaker
um So yeah it was jealous in that way and i think that that even fuels the rivalry and even more the fact that i don't know what your you'd be jealous of right now with manchester united but i'm sure they would have been at some point you would have been jealous of folks and success it feels that rivalry even more not and i love it. It's interesting that the the the clubs are very kind of really.
00:13:15
Speaker
They've really rarely gone toe to toe in in in a season or in eras. You know, you have periods of domination where, you know, Liverpool, you know, 70s and 80s are absolute kings and, you know, United, they'll have the odd cup success. And then you have the 90s and the... You know the two thousands where united are in the ascendancy and Liverpool are just just trying to play catch up when they do have their moments obviously the Champions League Liverpool got a you know they got a thing with with European competition and there was some
00:13:49
Speaker
era or some seasons where Benitez did challenge um United you know in terms of a title run. But generally, it they don't really very often go head-to-head. And I'm just wondering, you know looking ahead, and we we will talk about ah kind of the new managers ah that are coming in. but yeah Niall, do you see a place now where both clubs may start to rival each other in terms of not just that historic rivalry, but going for major silverware?
00:14:26
Speaker
Yeah, it's an interesting one. I think it's ah it's a good point you brought up there about kind of one team or the other being in the ascendancy at a certain period of time. In terms of when I think that will happen, I think it's difficult to say. And I think, you know, obviously we will touch on the managers, but you know, we've had a bit of a deja vu here at United where we have a new manager coming in thinking, yeah, this is the one. So, uh,
00:14:50
Speaker
You know, you could say that it'll be in three, four years' time where both teams are at the top table. um I think Liverpool are really in the middle of that kind of um prime at the moment now, depending on kind of the players that are going to stay around, but they're just far superior in terms of a squad and the cohesiveness between them. um So it's it's going to be difficult to put a timeframe on it, hopefully within, I'd say three, four years that we're both at the top table, but then you know you never know how Liverpool will look at that stage as well and how that um development goes and and how the players stay and if they're bringing in new players in and everything. So um yeah, I hope it does get to that stage because that would even feel the rivalry more. I mean, you know, you'd have it's already big enough when Liverpool are coming to you and United and absolutely hammering them 4-0 like it's still a massive game and it was the same back in the day as well in the early 2000s. So and it would it would just feel the fire even more. And I think
00:15:47
Speaker
the whole thing around the jealousy point is, you know, you're only kind of jealous of someone if you really admire them. And I think it's probably the same from both boat sets of fans where you're, you're kind of looking at them going, yeah, I'd like a bit of that. And they're actually very good. Um, yeah, it's a, it's a tough one for both fans at various periods of time, but yeah, it's very difficult to know when they're both going to be at the top table because I don't know, I can't predict United at all these days. Cole, do you think there's this kind of shared,
00:16:18
Speaker
kind of animosity towards clubs like Man City. I'm talking about Liverpool and Manchester United. Both have been hugely successful clubs. But I think that there is a feeling amongst the fan base of of of each club that they've got there legitimately. They've got there through you know their success on the pitch. So their success on the pitch has then resulted in success off the pitch. And so that's where United and and Liverpool have ah built their power base. They've built their fan base.
Financial Dynamics vs Historical Success
00:16:53
Speaker
And is is that one of the kind of things that
00:16:56
Speaker
almost brings those two sets of supports together, in terms of looking at man city and think, well, you've done it the other way around, it's, you've got the finances, and then you you came out of nowhere. And it's vulgar. It's not based on culture and city have a culture city do have a culture. It's it's something we're not completely ignored these days, because no, because of the money. And and I think this that's always going to happen. That's what I mean when I talk about Chelsea 2002. Yeah, suddenly they were a top No, they were a top tier club, but it wasn't the same thing because it was um a billionaire looked down his roller decks and found the word he liked and rang them. You know, that's not a cultural thing. That's just a look thing of Blackburn before that. You know, it's I think it's the that's why the reason I think the it's it's weird in a sort of. So I'm going to the city game in a few weeks and my girlfriend's come with me and she said,
00:17:49
Speaker
It's around the carpet. and You said it's Man City. Is it going to be massively anti Mancunian? Of course it was. They've got the word Manchester in the title. It's not going to be a friendly thing. um But it's not united. so Yeah, was united. It would be feral. Yeah. um In my view, it could be a little bit more feral in an inner sort of, you know, nonviolent way. But you know, um but it's different city when Liverpool city was always different, because first to be one all the time.
00:18:16
Speaker
because there's that famous week in the 90s, we beat them four and six, not in the same week, both at Anfield. We played them in the League Cup too. Thursday. Oh, sorry. My dog, Mike Bach, got to win here. And it's different. Liverpool, Evan is different to Liverpool, Man United and in the same way, Man United, Man City is different to, you know, to, you know, the Manchester Derby is different to Man United, Evan, which is the worst fixture in the world because, you know, the 1995 FA Cup final yeah went out.
00:18:46
Speaker
No, none of them. um It's a different thing. I think this, the Ravelry here is more ingrained historically than City are. And that's why I don't really see City as a rival in as much as, because as you say, because this this is based on history and about, you know, growing in power from from the 50s onwards. Well, imagine it matches United cases, the 50s onwards, from what it was the mid early 60s onwards. um And also, there's always there's also this is slightly off topic this book,
00:19:15
Speaker
We're also absolutely hampered by our pasts, we both are, which is my problem with Gary Neville, to be honest, because all Gary Neville does is say, yes, but in my day, we did this. And you can't argue with that, because they did and they want absolutely everything. And sometimes, this is my theory about Man United, you have to go away from your pre your ex players, because they don't, they're going to kill you because you can't be proved wrong because Paul Scholes won everything, or Keem won everything. And we had that all the time. And when we were struggling, the history is so strong that It's never going to go away because we can play in the most remote league possible. I'd want to absolutely batter Man United more than I'd want us to beat West Brom on Saturday, regardless. And you don't get that with City, I think. Yeah. Kieran wants that to be the case, but it's not. It's not going to happen. No. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. Yeah. Because even when we were like,
00:20:11
Speaker
someone asked me as well when Liverpool and City were always going for the title I was like City could win 10 in a row and it wouldn't affect me like because it's just you just don't have that rivalry with them and in a way maybe it's because I was wasn't brought up on that rivalry. Do you think that really bugs City fans though? It must really bug City fans because I think they want they want you to hate them more than you actually do but you don't really that much? is Is that is that true? Is that fair, fair to say, Kieran? I would say so. I think it frustrates city fans that we don't consider them anything other than the noisy neighbours, you know, and and they tried to they tried to use that line against us. Here are your noisy neighbours. Yeah, yeah, we called you that. Well done.
00:20:54
Speaker
it doesn't It doesn't bother us. As Nar said, I much consider Liverpool and Arsenal to be much more, much bigger rivals than City. um And that's weird to say because they are quite ah literally the the stadium next door. But yeah, it's this weird thing of I don't consider City to be the fierce rivalry that the City fans want it to be. It's it's just not that it's not that case. it Maybe if it was a case of these two are absolutely year after year gunning for the title,
00:21:23
Speaker
But we had you know two seasons, we had the Aguero moment against us and everything sort of went a bit astray after that. Ferguson won back the title, retired and things have never really been the same since. So perhaps if we were battling with City at the top for a longer, maybe then, but yeah, it's it's all about... it's all I think that last Ferguson title is probably your best title because oh what really struck me about that?
00:21:46
Speaker
was the team wasn't good enough to win the league, but he was so wounded by what happened. He said, no matter what we win this league, regardless of the quality of it, he basically did that by force of, well, I genuinely admire that. Yeah. and a sort of Right. Okay. Well, that's never happened again. You you walked off the pitch at Sunderland thinking he'd won the league. It's interesting. Also, they mentioned the noisy neighbours thing, because we've got our own version of that.
Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser
00:22:05
Speaker
So when David Moyes arrived at Everton, bless him,
00:22:08
Speaker
um He said, oh, yeah, but we are the People's Club. And they start saying where the People's Club. Now, Liverpool, they're all Norwegian off North Wales, you know, that where the People's Club, the People's Club is a shankley about Liverpool in the early 70s. I love stuff like that. Let's read a book.
00:22:27
Speaker
OK, it's time for a very short break and we'll be back after this brief message. Here at Global Sports Podcast Network, We spent a lot of time selecting our delivery platform. Zencaster came out the clear winner. With 4K video recording from your phone and AI editing that automatically removes all those ums and r's, it's super easy to start a podcast that sounds great and is delivered efficiently. If you're ready to tell your story,
00:23:01
Speaker
Check out the link in the show description to learn more about Zencaster. and that is all for the first in this twopart special looking at the historic rivalry between liverpool and manchester united follow us on social media at gspn liverpool and email us at gspn daily liverpool at gmail dot com join us again tomorrow for part two until then from me carl and the united podcast team it's goodbye Every club. Every day. The Global Sports Podcast Network. work work