Transcript
johngrimsmo: Good morning and welcome to the business of machining episode 467. My name is John Grimsmo.
John Saunders: My name is John Saunders
johngrimsmo: And this is your weekly manufacturing podcast where... John and John talk about running our businesses and all the cool technologies and things we're learning about and shows we're going to.
johngrimsmo: Give each other a high five at next week. And yeah.
John Saunders: Yeah, like four days. Holy cow.
johngrimsmo: I know. It's it only $4 ,000. Yeah.
John Saunders: Yeah. Right. what you When are you getting in?
johngrimsmo: on Monday morning.
John Saunders: Okay, sweet.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, Amish was coming in Monday afternoon and I was like, I could join you at the airport. But then I'll miss Monday. I won't have Monday at the show. So I'm like, I'm just going to. land at 9am and then I'll have Monday at the show about myself so
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: up with you
johngrimsmo: So I'm there Monday to Friday.
John Saunders: Oh good for you.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: We're going to split sometime Thursday.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: Good. Awesome.
johngrimsmo: Sweet. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it
John Saunders: forward to.
John Saunders: What have you been up to? What's on the list?
johngrimsmo: Shortlist is... um GERP buyer's choice conversion rates. Daily buyer's choice.
John Saunders: oo
johngrimsmo: DLC issues and a white light interferometer update.
John Saunders: Okay. um, I have actually a good list that we can tackle through, even though it was a short week because Monday was off. here in the US and then.
John Saunders: uh yesterday i spent a good portion of the day with mr matt blackwell who swung by on his cross -country moving trip which was super awesome and talking about um
johngrimsmo: Nice.
John Saunders: From his viewpoint, the world of spindle gripping. From my viewpoint. barfed mills, but the Venn diagram has the potential for a lot of overlap there.
johngrimsmo: Interesting.
John Saunders: um Otherwise probing on the brothers swapping out coolant tanks um our vision system notebook LM for PDFs. and Fusion MCP Cloud.
John Saunders: That's my list.
johngrimsmo: Amazing. all right let's dig in
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Okay, you start with the first thing on your list.
John Saunders: Real quick, I'll tip of the hat. Looks like Rob Lockwood is. creating Another feature set to shatter. S H A T T E R which may include the ability to bypass a lot of the shenanigans on. um the brother control with probing that I was actually lamenting last week where his the shatter can now, from like a tablet, just handle your probing as kind of like an HMI or tablet, if you will. I haven't played around with it yet.
John Saunders: and it's kind of funny because as much as i like this our brother machines are all going to be production machines. So I actually don't think we'll probe much. outside of the next few months. where we're getting stuff set up on them.
johngrimsmo: Still though.
John Saunders: Bye. still looks awesome. So tip of the hat to Rob on that.
johngrimsmo: Yep. But so... You're speedo controls are the newer d00 And they do have an HMI, like a like graphical interface, don't they? Like a probing page? I don't know. I've never seen it.
johngrimsmo: Have you seen pictures?
John Saunders: What I've never actually like seen a C zero zero since I've what i've seen justin's and others but like i don't pay that i don't know the difference um
johngrimsmo: Yeah. I mean, the difference is like ah like a basic FANUC machine.
John Saunders: No.
johngrimsmo: You see the code, but there's no... There's no pictures on the screen. You can't click on a probe left.
John Saunders: Oh. Really?
johngrimsmo: You can't. Yeah. your Your probing routine is like...
John Saunders: Yes, so it has.
johngrimsmo: you type in the code and you put your dimensions and the macros and you its start. That's it.
John Saunders: So, yes, you can play GTA 6 on a DC or Zero, if that's what you mean.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: What was the the meme winner of, like, Heidenheim? But. um it's it's actually the worst it's worse than that because you have this beautiful renishaw go probe software where you open it up and you pick this coordinate and this axis and this dimension and then the output
johngrimsmo: Interesting.
John Saunders: is a sh... text string which is your probing routine which you then hit copy and then you go over to another menu and you delete everything and you paste it in so it's like
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: Um. The last mile got forgotten. there
johngrimsmo: Yeah, exactly. On Heidenhain, it is really nice. um It's got a little interface where you just type in your numbers and you choose the operation. you know probe left probe right probe circle pro boss whatever and it's like we're really slick
John Saunders: Yeah.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: how it should be, how how Rob is building Shatter.
John Saunders: Yeah. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: to do, basically, because he's lived on Heidenheim for so many years. like
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: guy knows what he's doing.
John Saunders: yeah
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Very cool.
John Saunders: All right, what about you?
johngrimsmo: Um... new buyer's choice system version two buyer's choice has been in place for about a week ish now I want to get you the... correct number because Where did I see that?
John Saunders: Okay, so you're in GURP right now, or are you in shop?
johngrimsmo: Fine.
John Saunders: Bye -bye.
johngrimsmo: I'm looking in GURP right now, which is our internal yeah ERP. website system. Um, I just wanna give you the right number. We have gotten...
johngrimsmo: Almost there, loading.
johngrimsmo: a Okay, we've taken 65 orders in the past week or so.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: um in the new GURPS system.
John Saunders: wow
johngrimsmo: which is awesome.
John Saunders: okay
johngrimsmo: Conversion rates based on how many emails we pick and how many orders we've gotten. are up 60%.
John Saunders: uh -huh
johngrimsmo: Which is like...
John Saunders: Holy cow.
johngrimsmo: Huge. Yeah.
John Saunders: John.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Dude.
johngrimsmo: I'm like stoked about that. That's like time and a half order conversion rate.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: i Very happy with that. And.
John Saunders: Is this because it's the new buyer's choice or because you started to better call the list?
johngrimsmo: Both. um
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: And instead of having four separate lists, one for each product that multiple people didn't know they weren't signed up for all of them kind of thing.
John Saunders: Oh sure.
johngrimsmo: Like even our diehards. like Bob. You even know Bob.
John Saunders: mm -hmm
johngrimsmo: Um, There are four lists and he was only signed up to two of them.
John Saunders: Interesting.
johngrimsmo: And like, like even he didn't know, even one of our guys on staff didn't know he wasn't signed up on the field list and he thought he was like, so basically I combined all the lists into one master list and now. Anybody who gets picked gets the option to buy any one of the four products that we make.
John Saunders: Oh, you it's an upgrade it's like an upgrade.
johngrimsmo: at that moment. Oh totally.
John Saunders: uh huh
johngrimsmo: And then not only that. people have the opportunity to buy. ah up to five products if they want in one go so we've had people already buy one of each
John Saunders: Mm -hmm Mm hmm.
johngrimsmo: in all matching colors or or the knife they want and then a pen too in matching colors and it's like it's really really working So. Super happy with that.
John Saunders: That's awesome.
johngrimsmo: Plus the interface is like a million times better and it looks better. It's cleaner. There's so much better reporting. It's all within GURP right now. um The data is just delicious.
johngrimsmo: and the customer experience is like phenomenal. So.
John Saunders: Good.
johngrimsmo: I was thinking about you a lot.
John Saunders: That's great.
johngrimsmo: as i'm you know late night 3am at home like adding this new feature i'm like does does it make the beer taste better And I was like, for the customer, it does.
John Saunders: her
johngrimsmo: And for us in the backend, it does.
John Saunders: Well, the customer's the only one who cares about the beer table.
johngrimsmo: And the...
John Saunders: oh Yeah, 100 % John.
johngrimsmo: yeah Exactly. and like the it doesn't change the product and the knife the the knife is not affected by the system whatsoever But... the process of taking the order and fulfilling the customer is like massively improved so
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Super happy with that.
John Saunders: Google it. Are you able to put a bow on it?
johngrimsmo: I'm 99 % there. um it's It's in place, it's working. i think last few tweaks are just like today tomorrow kind of thing and then it's Done.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: for now.
John Saunders: Good. Awesome.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. So then... daily buyer's choice my second point here which i worked the past the whole weekend on and then. finish finalizing through the ah through the rest of this week.
johngrimsmo: is our regular buyer's choice is like a pull system we pick you know ah a thousand emails we send out a thousand emails and then a certain percentage of those people See the form and then smaller percentages people actually like buy one
John Saunders: Sure.
johngrimsmo: Um, So that's how we've always done it. And that rewards patience. You go on the list, you wait to get picked. um I've always wanted to reward. impatience and excitement and have people just be on our website and place an order.
johngrimsmo: But. we can't just leave that open forever we can't just leave that open forever we can't just leave that open forever because we'll get too many orders and because we'll get too many orders and because we'll get too many orders and we'll have to turn it off so i want to we'll have to turn it off so i want to we'll have to turn it off so i want to be able to like have a way to just turn on the tap a little bit and accept five orders.
John Saunders: Oh interesting.
johngrimsmo: per day. And then... they sell out and then in 22 hours we're going to open it up again with a timer on the website that says in 22 hours check back
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: and then whatever time zone you're in you know 22 hours away is whatever. Um, and then now that That is all internal to our GURP system.
johngrimsmo: i can have shopify read the gurp live information be like oh there's four left oh there's three left so i created a custom list liquid script script for shopify that literally sees the live data from gerb
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: so that as things sell out the link goes away the timer shows up on shopify um All this stuff is like really, really cool. so just building those workflows. And that's not live yet, even though we did have one. Accidental customer who bought.
johngrimsmo: three products. by like, as I'm playing with Shopify it.
John Saunders: Oh that's hilarious.
johngrimsmo: at 10 PM. And this order comes in for three things. And I'm like, How did he even...
John Saunders: Oops.
johngrimsmo: and it's tagged daily buyer's choice like in group i can tell it came from there and i'm like I literally emailed them i'm like. Hey, bud, thank you very much. like How did you find the link? like I'm curious. And he hasn't gotten back. But I think I made a mistake in Shopify and I sort of made it public on. like three of the pages like our FAQ page or something like that.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: the section went at the bottom of that and Yeah.
John Saunders: I remember talking to, I believe it was Tyson Lamb. when lamb crafted and Um, made me feel like perhaps i'm naive to this where He would do similar sort of drops.
John Saunders: of his his putting products like the the sort of
johngrimsmo: Mm hmm.
John Saunders: $20 to $200 type products, not the Putters themselves which are quite expensive um and And he would sell a lot. I mean, he would sell, I believe, hundreds, if not thousands of... of products on each drop.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: he The last time I talked to him about this, which which was probably a year or two ago, he said he had a real problem. With bots even like in like I'll go out to like Tyson lamb.
John Saunders: It's awesome his awesome success story. It's not like he's Apple selling the new iPhone. Like it's not that big of it.
johngrimsmo: Sure, but...
John Saunders: audience and world and it makes me wonder
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Again, are we being naive and innocent about like, are people. Do people already have regular things set up to scrape Grimmside Knives website? Because that's how somebody could be like, oh, something changed. Here's a new.
johngrimsmo: True. And...
John Saunders: Avenue.
johngrimsmo: That was a problem. before LLMs. And I honestly haven't haven't considered like really.
John Saunders: I know. I know.
johngrimsmo: the gravity of that. Now?
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Um, However, I do have checks in place. um that Yeah. Either somebody is on our list and the daily buyer's choice kind of checks for that. You type in your email and it like.
johngrimsmo: checks that you're on our list already.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Or if you're not, that's okay. But when you go to finalize the order, I do send a confirmation email to you that says, just make sure you typed in the email properly so I don't have a dead email with this order.
John Saunders: oh gosh
johngrimsmo: um so that you know you get an email and you confirm you click the button, you confirm that, and now you can finalize and check out the order. So I'm curious. Yeah, if anything comes up like bot wise Allah I'll find out hopefully.
John Saunders: Yeah, right.
johngrimsmo: And then. and then combat. but
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: But aside from that, general workflow has been phenomenal.
John Saunders: Good job.
johngrimsmo: feedback's been awesome yeah like um
John Saunders: That's awesome
johngrimsmo: put a lot of work into it and i'm really really happy with how polished it is.
John Saunders: good That's awesome.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Hadn't actually even been on my list, but I want to give ah another tip of the hat here to Alex. he gave uh plus a Um, internal demo of our new Lex.
johngrimsmo: ooooh
John Saunders: which will be we've done lots of iterations over the past geez five or six years
johngrimsmo: Is this an iteration or a rewrite?
John Saunders: um This is the rewrite. So this will be the first time since we wrote Lex where we will actually take the old one down, do a data migration.
John Saunders: It's on a new server. It's a whole new. happens to
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: parts of it happen to look similar but it's it's totally new
johngrimsmo: Yeah. that's That's what I did with GURP.
John Saunders: and
johngrimsmo: I had version 2 in AppSheets and we were using it.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: for purchase orders and stuff. And so I did a whole data migration and start Total Fresh. but but from a baseline like you guys have used it for years you know what you like you know what you want it's like gold what you guys started with just like what we started with you probably had more information in it and to migrate that's kind of fun because you're like okay i know what i had and i know what i want And now I know that I can do better.
johngrimsmo: And then. ah It's amazing.
John Saunders: And we could do a whole podcast on it. And and frankly, I'm not even quite like Yvonne and Alex are both probably better to speak about it because. Alex made it and Yvonne and others use it, but. um from everything from the GUI of how you can like drag and drop work orders to Things like all of our we're basically alex has not figured out like it doesn't i don't think he'd like hack it but we are reducing our dependency on Shopify. So we're able to like. pull everything into into lex as a master of pricing so
John Saunders: it basically Lex will Handle our pricing and push it to Shopify And then we can have our own.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: checks on material changes and cogs and margins and so forth and Um, the reporting, you know, Yvonne and Serena and others were doing a lot of like, Hey, let's grab this out of Lex and put it to Google sheets.
John Saunders: And I was just like, Nope, but that needs to just be there.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: So. Really cool to see. It also handles our QC system now. which like qc's are pulled into work order so when you bring a fixture plate from a the okuma over to qc you just type in that work order and it has a bespoke qc for that specific workflow to depend on changes depending on the plate type and so forth um really like awesome stuff
johngrimsmo: Yep, bringing it all under one roof and that's That's what I've always wanted GURP to be. It's just the single source of truth for like everything, whether it's reporting or data or process sheets or...
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: you know. how to change the air conditioner filters. or like whatever um Yeah.
John Saunders: The other thing we... this does not make the beer taste better so we have side barred it but it's still top of mind is um according to reddit which Take that for what you want. um Lots of people are using. clot or lms to rewrite their shopify liquid apps and i do hate it i mean i absolutely hate like pain We're in the hundreds of dollars a month for a lot of these plugins and add -ins.
John Saunders: And some of them I'm not sure I'd want to tackle with like that handle. complex api integrations with like 3pls or whatever but like or you know fedex fuel but like some of them it's like Yeah, I'll take a stab at that.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: especially that given what you can do now with like here's the app here's how it works you're like
johngrimsmo: Yeah, literally.
John Saunders: Bye.
johngrimsmo: It's it's cheating.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, we've got
John Saunders: but all that does is save it i mean it matters but it doesn't It's only a cost saving thing.
johngrimsmo: yeah Unless the your integration can be better for your needs.
John Saunders: Well...
John Saunders: So that's a good point.
johngrimsmo: Thank you. which is fair. Because yeah, we...
John Saunders: But that's not... yeah
johngrimsmo: We have one, I don't know what we're paying for, 20, 30 bucks a month or something like that, that we use every day um in in our Shopify. extra thingy and i've definitely considered you know tying that in and making a little bit better but um For now, it's I've asked my guys and they're like...
johngrimsmo: don't worry about it for now it's fine
John Saunders: Yeah. yeah
John Saunders: What's next on your list?
johngrimsmo: Yeah. I mean, last thought on that. as llms and technology and website creation and stuff it continues to get easier and easier and better and better and better and you know I'm sure Alex has put in a ton of work, and I know I've put in literally hundreds of hours on this group rewrite. of my own time um and over time it's only going to get better and faster and easier so i do wonder if like the All the work I'm putting in will be...
johngrimsmo: invalidated in like two years or if if we are creating a solid system that can run our company for the next you know many many years Um, i don't know what do you think
John Saunders: What do you gain today by debating this?
johngrimsmo: Probably nothing.
John Saunders: Move on.
johngrimsmo: All right But...
John Saunders: That's my like brutal response, right?
johngrimsmo: That's fair.
John Saunders: Like, yeah, I hear you.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: Is it a mistake? Blah, blah, blah. And that's why it's like, hey, John, you know, you're a bootstrapper, but like. you spend two grand a year on Shopify plugins or something, three grand or whatever, like. it's not what we need to be doing right now.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: Cool. Okay, what's next on your list?
John Saunders: came in over the long weekend and did a full. um swap on the vf3 that machine had been inadvertently boxed in with a horizontal because the horizontal footprint was not quite the same as the model they had sent when the rigger showed up which whatever not a big deal except we inadvertently couldn't get the coolant tank out for
johngrimsmo: oh
John Saunders: three three years. And I had tried to do a clean at one point on it, but it was just really tough when you can't get access to everything. And so this time I was able to fully detach the. the tank clean it out And then.
John Saunders: I tested what I had had my idea of. for the just overall workflow. Um, which I'll share here in a second, but it worked. great couple things i want to learn on and do better but like super super happy with it um and the simple There's a simple explanation to that. i should probably do a video it's not the sexiest video in the world but um I...
John Saunders: I'm so glad that we did it this way. So use a Freddy to pull all the old coolant tank cool it out, and that goes into an IBC tote that Safety Clean comes and picks up. then you do whatever you want to do to clean the tank and itself out that can be scraping it out you know rags power washing whatever you want to do there Then...
John Saunders: Um, we have a... Oh, sorry. So I needed to clean the f Freddie out well as well, because after you do that, that's the one thing I need to do. And the the Freddie guy.
John Saunders: messaged me i haven't responded but i am disappointed that so much sludge gets past the Freddie filters.
johngrimsmo: um
John Saunders: Freddy has a filter and that should be filtering except we're finding like an inch of sediment when it's a really dirty tank in the bottom of the freddy and that's like unacceptable
johngrimsmo: What what fineness of filters did you put on it because don't they have down to like five micron or something?
John Saunders: uh
John Saunders: They do um I don't know. is is the short answer so i don't want to misstate it um
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: But even if it was... a hundred micron. I was shocked at how much. Stuff got in the bottom of the freight which crazy really is you because there's no chance I'm touching new court with a Freddie that is that I mean the Freddie
johngrimsmo: m
John Saunders: the the clean part of the freddy was just rancid disgusting so what we did is we created a 55 gallon drum that has two percent bleach in it shout out to dylan within tolerance proteome and so we can use
johngrimsmo: oh
John Saunders: i physically cleaned the freddie like scraping out with a putty knife and all that and then We use that. 50 high gallon drum and we just cycled the the solution through the FREDI. It's like.
johngrimsmo: Interesting.
John Saunders: into the freddy right back into the drum back into the freddy back into the drum as a flush and that that bleach solution with water is something we can reuse probably for forever, like a long time.
johngrimsmo: still something you will want to safety clean dispose of at the end.
John Saunders: At some point yes, because of the contaminants in it.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: um I... I... I think, and I'm not the environmental expert, but I think if you have like a little bit of, like, let's say you have a gallon of. of 1%, 2 % bleach, I think.
John Saunders: That is acceptable to put down the drain.
johngrimsmo: But it's it's no longer just bleach. It's bleach and coolant.
John Saunders: Noob.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: See you. Exactly. you know It's like all that said, for sure.
johngrimsmo: got it Yeah, yeah.
John Saunders: But it...
johngrimsmo: Um,
John Saunders: Good.
johngrimsmo: uh, What was I going to say? What is the bleach? coolant um compatibility. Because now you've got bleach on residue in your Freddie.
johngrimsmo: that you're going to touch good coolant with.
John Saunders: ah Fair point. So the bleach flush. Um. The bleach flush. It helps. Clean the Freddy out. Full stop.
johngrimsmo: it Like it works, yeah.
John Saunders: at that point At that point, it was clean enough that I just flushed it with a little bit of water. Like just pure straight water. Like it was clean.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: So that kind of means your Freddy's now back to good. Hopefully, if I use the Freddy... correctly or it works better then I won't have to Do that again or rarely. But I like having this option of a way to...
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: to clean it so then um The other thing then what we do is we have a Another 55 -gallon drum start my life off. Another 55 gallon drum. not fill all the way 40 ounce with the cool quality chem echo
johngrimsmo: Yeah, I was wondering about that. Okay.
John Saunders: And so now you can cycle the Echo Queen through the Freddie. And then we also put that into the Haas. some. or into the tank.
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: Um, It wasn't quite enough. That has the larger 110 gallon Haas. um tank so it wasn't high enough to have the filters pick it up so we had a clear tote a clear uh, for me then.
John Saunders: and we were able to put the bin inside the tank. just convenience like so if it overflowed it was in a tank and then we could put the pumps inside of that one at a time
johngrimsmo: oh interesting instead of filling the whole huge hoss tank with coolant you're yeah
John Saunders: Oh! No, so we did fill the whole hot tank with echo clean, but it only went up like two inches high
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: So it wasn't high enough for the pickup point of the filters.
johngrimsmo: Got it.
John Saunders: But I was i refused to proceed without cycling Echo Clean through the hole. filter through the um But... a flood coolant and through spindle coolant and so putting the individual pumps in that tote.
John Saunders: Rubbermaid bin. let us turn each of those on respectively
johngrimsmo: And you're only going long enough to like. put EcoClean through the hoses.
John Saunders: Well, that was quite quick you saw it flush as soon as it flushed through for five seconds It was now clean like you saw that old coolant come out
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: ah We also use the FREDI. to um our freddy has the suck up and the discharge separately
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: so as we were sucking coolant up sorry not cool as we were sucking echo clean out of the tank My wife, Yvonne, was using the... gasoline discharge handle it was like a gas pump to And it has a lot of power to wash the whole VF3 out.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Um, we'd also gotten inside and did some physical cleaning and scrubbing, but that is really satisfying. and So there you're cycling. echo clean through the whole machine but you're actually using the Haas pumps.
johngrimsmo: Right, right.
John Saunders: So at that point you have a Fully flushed machine. There really was nothing that wasn't.
johngrimsmo: And would you.
John Saunders: Touched by Echo Clean.
johngrimsmo: would you reuse this echo clean like a bunch of times on different machines.
John Saunders: Yes, the EcoClean should last quite a while.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: Obviously, the more you contaminate it, the worse it could get. um I have a sort of informal meeting set up with QualiCam at IMTS to ask their EcoClean expert guy. um some more specifics but What I like about this is that... we will keep a bleach solution that we can use for really nasty temporary rinsing and we will keep the echo clean similarly for that purpose. And.
John Saunders: The VF3 has been back up and running for three days with brand new coolant and it is night and day better.
johngrimsmo: yeah
John Saunders: So that's I don't need to say more time talking about it other than like I wish earlier. It's delusional. I think too Toot. um during a tank and just put new coolant in.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: like especially the vf3 there was something for sure going on that needed a clean truth baby.
johngrimsmo: And the
johngrimsmo: the extra bleach step. is is better or separate than the Echo Clean to clean the Freddie.
John Saunders: Yeah, I should clarify that. You may not need to ever do that. Um, And you sure as heck was never, I would never touch the bleach. solution to the machine tool itself.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: um You could use it for the tank. I don't know why you would. um We got the tank really clean. like physically scraper and then and then i power washed it but the power washing at that point was
johngrimsmo: Yeah, manually
John Saunders: It was clean. the journey
johngrimsmo: You pressure washed it with a portable pressure washer?
John Saunders: Correct.
johngrimsmo: How did that go in the shop? I know Dennis was talking about it.
John Saunders: I don't know. Dennis is crazy. I did outside.
johngrimsmo: Oh, you did outside. Okay.
John Saunders: Yeah. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Oh, maybe he's talking about outside too.
John Saunders: yeah
johngrimsmo: I don't know. I just pictured like in the shop and I'm like, how is that not? getting chips. 40 feet away.
John Saunders: Well, the tank at that point is like clean clean.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: I mean...
johngrimsmo: but still the thought of pressure washing in the shop is like but still the thought of pressure washing in the shop is like
John Saunders: Yeah.
John Saunders: No, that's crazy.
johngrimsmo: It doesn't work for me.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Yeah, maybe he's always implied doing it outside and I never heard that part.
John Saunders: Yeah. I'd like to not have to do that, and I don't think you would.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: It's really not like. You look at the tank you're like, oh man, I gotta clean this and you realize it's not that bad They're big flat surfaces like you can You get a... ah you know a crude cleaning and then you do like three sequential like scrape cleans um i the final stage i mopped it and like you uh yeah it was it what
johngrimsmo: Nice. Yeah, we do paper towels and either Simple Green or Windex does the magic.
John Saunders: right
johngrimsmo: Windex is the ultimate shop cleaner.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Cool.
John Saunders: All right, what's next on your list?
johngrimsmo: Um, DLC issues. So we send a lot of parts out for DLC coding to make them.
John Saunders: Oh, yeah.
johngrimsmo: you know, not black but dark, dark, dark gray. Um, and super durable coating. scratch resistant, but mostly to like look cool and be durable. um It's expensive. It has a high scrap rate. um every certainly and not in the knife world everybody who sends out parts for dlc to all vendors around north america has a scrap rate that they don't talk about
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um where they get poor parts back, whether it's. pits or cracks in the dlc or weird shading where there's like clouds in it or mismatching colors sometimes they're more green more red more um different shades of black and you put two handles next to each other and you're like, those don't match.
johngrimsmo: All right. And I honestly can't expect the vendor to like. See that? Um, So it's tricky. we're We're looking for what they call a decorative coding, not a performance coding. We want both, obviously. So it's tricky and we don't have all the solutions, but we're definitely top of mind getting sick of the mismatching scrap.
johngrimsmo: Ken. Can't use this. you know eric Eric's are rejecting all kinds of parts, which I don't blame him for, but it's frustrating.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um So we're trying to figure out. what to do there um We've found some some cleaning issues on our end that, you know...
John Saunders: Mm -hmm
johngrimsmo: we all get arrogant with like, We're doing the best we can. We're doing everything we can. to do that and that's a dangerous statement because that everything you think you can't but you don't know what you don't know.
John Saunders: yeah
johngrimsmo: And. as i start probing and asking more questions and you know asking why five times kind of thing um It turns out when we... Sometimes we'll wash the parts in the sink with various soaps or toothbrushes or ultrasonic toothbrushes or whatever. And then we rinse them in the water and then we blow them off with the air and then they're clean and dry. I'm like.
johngrimsmo: Anybody got filters on those airlines? like i just I just went.
John Saunders: Yeah. Hot oil.
johngrimsmo: deep into this with this video.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: possible oil.
John Saunders: i
johngrimsmo: ah possible oil in the lines. um Are we rinsing them in tap water? Well tap water has a lot of contaminants in it. and then we're blow drying those contaminants and then Yeah, they got it. Maybe we need more aerobics. Maybe we need to use ultrasonics for this kind of stuff. Maybe we need to learn more about cleaning systems. Maybe yadda yada, yada, yada.
johngrimsmo: and even At the coating house, they have their own ultrasonic tank to make parts even cleaner. Um, but how are they racking them we have zero visibility into what they're doing like you've seen this with anodizing all the time
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And it's like, you know what they're supposed to be doing, you know what they've told you they're doing, but what are they actually doing? And and how much can you actually control?
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: what they're doing. um So we found that some of those water spots. Or... oil spots from the air or whatever. may not be washing off in their cleaning steps.
johngrimsmo: if it's hard water spot or something like that. So. yeah so we're starting to up our cleaning game even more Um, with things like that and i'm gonna see what kind of research i can do at imts
John Saunders: Mm hmm.
johngrimsmo: Just to like learn more about not just ultrasonic systems because there's lots of those there, but the chemicals and the process and the. how to check for cleanliness. um Have you ever heard of a Dyne pen? D -Y -N -E.
John Saunders: No.
johngrimsmo: or a Dyn solution. Um, My buddy in California at Surface Engineering. one of the shops that i toured down there um told me about these and It's basically and like a Sharpie as as the pen version or a bottle that you Q -tip in and you wipe on the part. And it's this liquid. It looks like blue layout fluid.
johngrimsmo: Except it's... i just learned last night i was reading the sds on it it's made of and formaldehyde. Like um almost entirely formaldehyde plus ah some either water or ethyl whatever
John Saunders: no
johngrimsmo: Um, And what it does is it... either wets out on a clean surface or it beads up on a dirty surface.
John Saunders: Yeah, that's cool.
johngrimsmo: And they have all these levels from 30 to 60. of different.
John Saunders: Oh.
johngrimsmo: dying numbers and these are like What is it? ASME certified. Like this is the the cleaning.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: um It is the way to validate your cleaning procedure.
John Saunders: Yeah, yeah I love that.
johngrimsmo: Because you're making the part dirty by... by wiping it with a pen. but it validates your procedure. Like how clean does this procedure get the part? And there's lots of videos online about this and D Y N E if anybody wants to look at it.
johngrimsmo: And it's like common once you know about it. um
John Saunders: But I assume the pens aren't. ah prohibitively expensive either.
johngrimsmo: You can buy it on McMaster. The pens are about $25 each and a bottle is about $100 each.
John Saunders: Okay. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: The problem is a lot of people are saying don't use the pens period because the second you touch the felt tip to a dirty surface, the pen is now dirty.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And you're... All future solution is now contaminated.
John Saunders: Oh, because he missed it over. Sure.
johngrimsmo: So it's it's probably fine for some industries like they use it in the plastics industry, like to pad print on a water bottle or on so like a plastic.
John Saunders: daughter
johngrimsmo: They have they need a certain surface energy of the surface. So they actually plasma gun. Like. shoot light lightning bolts at it. to make the surface energy more and you can measure that with the DynPen.
johngrimsmo: otherwise the ink won't stick to it.
John Saunders: cool Sure.
johngrimsmo: So for like certain plastics industries where the part is like new, you're not contaminating the pen. but for us.
John Saunders: Yeah, yeah
johngrimsmo: You know, it doesn't work So... Yeah, so I might actually get a few pens. and pour them into our little oil bottles.
John Saunders: Yeah
johngrimsmo: Um, And then I can Q -tip them from there.
John Saunders: Is it catch you cute? pen a q -tip that
johngrimsmo: It's possible.
John Saunders: Are you like just be
johngrimsmo: Yeah, so I'm gonna get a few pens. um and start playing with this because it could really tell us. not only how clean the part is, but if it's like how literally what number clean it it is and the cleaner the better, or if there are spots we're missing or something like that.
John Saunders: Yep.
John Saunders: Can I ask you a few questions?
johngrimsmo: Hmm?
John Saunders: DLC's machines are six figures or seven.
johngrimsmo: They are yeah
John Saunders: Okay, so that's a non -starter.
johngrimsmo: like Like five hundred thousand plus
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: and And we've we've spent $50 ,000.
John Saunders: And it's your deals. us
johngrimsmo: outsourcing in the past three years.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: So it's like, ah, that those numbers just don't work.
John Saunders: Be at home.
johngrimsmo: Unfortunate. I would love to, but it's also like a job. It's like.
John Saunders: Aww.
johngrimsmo: a real job to run one.
John Saunders: Okay. Yeah interesting.
johngrimsmo: Um, And it's the size of a curtain.
John Saunders: Yeah. Got it. and ki -
johngrimsmo: Not to say I'm not interested. but
John Saunders: I was just saying, a lot of ways to interpret that.
johngrimsmo: no
John Saunders: kind um
johngrimsmo: Right.
John Saunders: Can you drive to your DLC coder?
johngrimsmo: It's about an hour away. Yeah
John Saunders: Yeah, okay. Okay. Interesting.
johngrimsmo: yeah And we've been there many times.
John Saunders: Could we talk about this?
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: you I thought kind of had resolved this maybe two or three years ago, but it sounds like
johngrimsmo: It comes and goes and gets better and it's all up to the operator at the end of the day. And.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um As we've been there, their their staffing levels have gone up and down and changed. and you know it's volatile Um, There are, we we want to do it in Canada.
John Saunders: I won't yet.
johngrimsmo: Sure. There's lots of places in America. We don't want to have the cross border shipping for all these parts.
John Saunders: Sure. sureship
johngrimsmo: There are. a few places in Canada. um
John Saunders: Got it.
johngrimsmo: We're going to. try to experiment with a few others maybe, but. Yeah, it's interesting. So I definitely did, you know, peek at at machines out there. but they're 500 plus like it the money doesn't work.
John Saunders: Is there any way for you to... Could've... kind of rack the part. gris and eyes and then ship them something that they don't even touch. They don't even touch the...
johngrimsmo: I wondered about that. um And maybe that's a conversation we can have. They go on those. Like if you've ever seen end mills get coated, it's like the...
John Saunders: Yeah. Mm hmm.
johngrimsmo: the tombstone that has many tombstones that all rotate upon itself.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: planetary gears and all that stuff.
John Saunders: Yeah. It looks like a carousel like ah that you ride. with little holes in it for test tubes.
johngrimsmo: Right. But each pony on the carousel also spins.
John Saunders: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. And it's really cool. But even... Um... Some of these color shading issues The guys. at the coding house were saying like, We're talking nanometers of thickness difference.
johngrimsmo: and they're reflecting light.
John Saunders: oh
johngrimsmo: You know?
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: from black to green and that's... I don't make it enough numbers, 50 nanometers or something. I would love to know those numbers exactly because it'd be cool. but Um, Yeah, so it's it's cool so it's either like we stop offering this coding which is very unfortunate or we resolve the issues or we or we caveat the customer and say look, I mean it is but it's still super performance coding it just doesn't look as like I don't know.
John Saunders: Is there a way to to design the... variances into the part like actually intentionally make it distressed or actually like roughing up the pen or a knife so that way it
johngrimsmo: Beforehand or after?
John Saunders: Probably before.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. No.
John Saunders: Yeah. Okay.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, that's a good question. It's all the way it reflects light and how thick the coating is. Um,
John Saunders: Yeah, but if you like have you ever seen how like they stipple a gri a Glock handle?
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: It's like sandpaper. like if you If you sort of turn the the texture of a product like that, then there is no more light reflection in the traditional sense of use.
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
johngrimsmo: But like... on a blade with a really flat polished level.
John Saunders: You DLC the Blades?
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Oh, I'm thinking handles. Got it.
johngrimsmo: We do both but Yeah.
John Saunders: Okay. Sure. for Sure. I was... Think about when you have these kind of like arguments or frustrations at this level and it's like well I don't know Apple's rejection rate for iPhones and MacBooks, but...
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: I bet you they've got it dialed.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Um, So.
johngrimsmo: I bet you it's also not zero.
John Saunders: I don't know. like I really don't know. um But I do know
johngrimsmo: But they they want it to be zero.
John Saunders: we're in a better place with our anodizing, knock on wood. But when had some frustrations in the past, we had the same questions about our water, our cleaning, even like if you if you ship it to the anodizer and it has retention of moisture or abrasion up against, car cardboard is abrasive, all these questions.
johngrimsmo: yeah
johngrimsmo: Mm hmm.
John Saunders: And then sometimes it's been on us. Sometimes we've actually found out like, oh, you know, the dissolved. I don't even know the term. The dissolved XYZ chemical in our tank was getting a little bit high, and we probably were due for change. and you You don't like.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, how is that my problem?
John Saunders: They're not beat. right.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Yeah. um And we machined a foam insert where we would lay all the parts into this foam insert and ship them to them like that. They actually send a courier.
johngrimsmo: which is really handy.
John Saunders: Oh, that's cool. Yeah. yeah
johngrimsmo: Yeah, it's great. All the scheduling. often. Missable. You know, he comes after everybody goes home and whatever. um But then we realized, hey, that foam. might be getting dirty over time.
johngrimsmo: And. adding more contaminants to our clean. parts. So they're receiving them dirtier. as the foam gets used more and more. um So now we wrap every single part in a Kimwipe.
johngrimsmo: and then put that in there.
John Saunders: Oh my god.
johngrimsmo: And it's like... They come back wrapped as well, but... I don't know what's really happening
John Saunders: Are you willing to... if you build a little jig that looks like a wind chime holder and you could actually just Oh, for pens. I think in pen tubes, which you do you do you'll see other stuff.
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: But we we we end up now shipping some of our stuff suspended. to avoid any abrasions, wrapping, et cetera.
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: which works well.
johngrimsmo: Interesting.
johngrimsmo: So you have no solutions yet. But lots of ideas and I'm looking forward to seeing what I can learn at IMTS.
John Saunders: Yeah, yes for sure, sure.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Somebody needs to come out with like, well, so. If it was a... $50 ,000. Heat treat size oven.
johngrimsmo: Right.
John Saunders: Because you could fit a lot.
johngrimsmo: I would have had one already
John Saunders: Yeah right.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Interesting.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. And it's like, if you invest in that yourself, not only is it easy half a million to a million of cost to buy the thing you need gas purge supply it it runs at a hot temperature it's a big vacuum
John Saunders: Yeah. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um And then so it has running costs.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And then you're like, well, now do we outsource or do we... um whatever you call it. Not freelance, but...
John Saunders: Spa. operative service
johngrimsmo: You're right, offer this as a service. And I'm like, I don't want to job shop.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: ah
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: coding work.
John Saunders: I hear you.
johngrimsmo: But... you'd be tooled up for it.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: there are there are people who have researched or even played with making their own dlc chambers but um The more I've looked into it, it's it's quite technical on the electronics side. And it's like, oh, that is that is a. project and a half right there that's not Not worth it.
John Saunders: It reminds me of every four four or five years I've seen somebody like really get some energy behind a DIY ADM.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: And there's a reason we don't see DLI EDMs to this day.
johngrimsmo: Right. Now, here's a question that just occurred. What about a used coding chamber? Never really thought about that.
John Saunders: Sure, I got to wonder like why would ah somebody ever sell one though, you know?
johngrimsmo: If they can't make any money. doing it. So.
John Saunders: we know Sorry, sure, there are reasons like...
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: company goes bankrupt or ah OEM folds up, but like also. Bye. you know. When it stops, it's like. hard enough to troubleshoot machine.
johngrimsmo: Mm hmm. Yeah that's true.
John Saunders: i don
johngrimsmo: it's It's a machine just like everything else. but you know it's vacuum it's high electricity it's plasma it's uh It's literally atomizing atoms of The...
John Saunders: cool though
johngrimsmo: done. You have a puck of titanium in there. and i think it's called the sputtering kind where it shoots electricity at it and atoms pop off and then they're floated and suspended in the air and then they're electrically attracted to the substrate part and then they just stay there
John Saunders: So cool.
johngrimsmo: It is so cool. And there's there's a lot of different kinds of DLC, actually. The more you look into it, the more you realize this is like a... PhD level knowledge.
John Saunders: Mm.
johngrimsmo: of requirement to do this. So... But it is so cool.
John Saunders: Yeah, maybe a good um Fishbone diagram, John.
johngrimsmo: Mmm.
John Saunders: to like all of the different inputs that can affect it. good Good chance to use chat to help think of what you're not missing.
johngrimsmo: All right, yeah.
John Saunders: Like you said, that the pens are awesome, the way to mark them. You may even intentionally contaminate some. pens with tap water or i keep saying pens but you know what i mean finger smudges oils air compressor oil uh hard water and ask them to run a batch to see
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: maybe i'll even do it for free if you're like hey here's 10.
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: Tubes like I don't these won't be sold. I want to test how sensitive they are
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: I like it. All right, let's thanks.
John Saunders: um I'll cheat and do two, but we'll first go super quick. Please, everybody out there, if you want to like up your game, um uploading uploading manuals to Notebook LM.
John Saunders: is incredible. i had I hit the wrong button on our Okamoto this morning. um and i was like i need to put that pdf in notebook lm and i've just done this on all of our brother machines earlier in the week and then put that in the wiki and that helped us figure out some brother stuff and then i uploaded it to notebook lm and then i just asked notebook lm i was like hey i accidentally hit this button and it won't seem to undo itself how do i fix it points. Dominic.
John Saunders: hole. There's no hallucination because it's only its own data set.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: of what you fed it, it's incredible.
johngrimsmo: Have you tried doing the same thing in cloud and see if you get different? Results. I'm, just wondering if they're as good as hello
John Saunders: Good.
John Saunders: I, the reason I haven't is because it helps me think about like notebook element is only this like repository of our PDFs.
johngrimsmo: Mm -hmm
John Saunders: with claude i think on something like that you would want to set up as um quad code where it has access to this folder and that creates
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: a permission issue where it's harder for me to share that with our team and So.
johngrimsmo: Bye.
John Saunders: i don't like If it isn't broken, don't fix it. This works great for us.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, I've used notebook LLM a few times. I actually had ah a speedio question. And. ah Same thing. it's Drop in all the manuals you can find. and just ask a question and.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: They're like, there it is. Yeah, that's possible if you do this. input X11 and... hold this three seconds and whatever.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: Um, Yeah.
John Saunders: But the more fun update is... um really making a ton of progress on the um barfed mill i think we put something up on instagram but like we were 3d printing chuck adapters and vice shawls soft shawls 3d printed just as like a janky one -off test i know it's going to be a bad part but like it helps you um
johngrimsmo: Feel fast.
John Saunders: It's kind of like half. Well, yeah, it's like half between. um what's that called when you like envision something in your head like visualize a flow there's a like role play it in your head.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: versus like the end production. This is like halfway in between.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: um
johngrimsmo: yeah
John Saunders: And. um And then it was awesome to. Just talk with Matt. you know He comes at things as a passionate spindle g gripper. and i love the idea of figuring out ways that we can have spindle gripping work for us but I actually think we're... already figuring out ways with the barfed mill to not even need a spindle gripper Um.
John Saunders: well We would still probably use a spindle gripper for the final removal of the finished part out of the vise into ah a tray or something.
johngrimsmo: okay Mm.
John Saunders: I think we can actually progress the part through workflow. um without it which
johngrimsmo: Like push it out or something
John Saunders: Peace.
johngrimsmo: with the next part
John Saunders: Cut. ah Kind of, yeah.
johngrimsmo: Interesting.
John Saunders: I want to get a little more. umph behind it it's nothing revolution it's nothing crazy it's just when you start to
johngrimsmo: Yeah. No, but It's clever.
John Saunders: I started with a complex idea, lots of like lots of different Z planes and moving the part and flipping the part. And now you've simplified it down to like. Oh yeah. as I will. Way less fancy.
johngrimsmo: It's obvious, but it's not It took you 15 iterations to get to the obvious answer.
John Saunders: Yeah.
John Saunders: Yeah. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: It's ah obvious when you see it um Very cool. Very cool.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: So let's talk about spindle gripping real quick because I've seen other people do it with. raging success. um austere manufacturing loves it making his buckles and clasps and stuff Um, Even one of the knife makers, Bill Koenig, um does it for pocket clips.
John Saunders: Mm hmm. Mm -hmm
John Saunders: Oh really?
johngrimsmo: and And he just has a tray of parts with, you know, 50 squares of titanium.
John Saunders: mm -hmm
johngrimsmo: And I kind of always dismissed it for knife parts. Um, But I'm seeing people implement it. I'm like, oh, dang. like They didn't dismiss it and they're doing very well.
johngrimsmo: And so yeah Koenig has I guess one machine with a fourth axis and g grippers and whatever in a tray and he'll pick up a blank and he'll machine it and then spin it and
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: sub fixture it and whatever.
John Saunders: Mhm.
johngrimsmo: And then a clip comes out. I'm like, Oh wow. Okay, hold on. And then... Montana Knife Company does it for scales for handles.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: So it'll have a square of G10. And. 100 of them. And they'll pick up the whole square in the various different fixtures and they'll make a full g10 Handle. like phenolic resin handle and I'm like Very interesting.
johngrimsmo: i don't think it would work for our titanium handles but maybe that's me going being. you know. dumb, but I think there's... a lot of rigidity and benefits to the way that i'm doing it but it's a lot more complex Um,
John Saunders: what What machine makes them now?
johngrimsmo: ah For me.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: a combination of the Kern and the Mori.
John Saunders: Okay. Yep.
johngrimsmo: But they are like fixtures. like with clamps and custom made clamps that wrap around the part and the guys are screwing the clamps down and then they have each part has threaded holes on the bottom of it specifically for fixturing so when you machine the back side
John Saunders: Mm hmm.
johngrimsmo: from like edge clamps and then you flip the part over and it has screws go through the bottom of the fixture into the part and now the whole top surface and the to top sides you know the five sides of the part are exposed for contouring, for profiling, for chamfering, for everything.
John Saunders: Sure, sure.
John Saunders: Opposed? Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um It holds the part. very flat although it's interesting since our parts are lapped so flat when you screw it down with four screws and you shine it in the light just the right way you can actually see those screws dipping down the surface
John Saunders: oh
John Saunders: Sure sure sure sure It's funny.
johngrimsmo: So it's like, it's flat, but it's too like.
John Saunders: you
johngrimsmo: I'm over constraining it.
John Saunders: You're making it worse.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, it's...
John Saunders: Yeah yeah
johngrimsmo: It's probably not enough to matter, but it's it's interesting. Um,
John Saunders: The... Um, We do a lot of the similar workflows for fixture plates themselves. One of the things I've been sort of starting to chew on is... um i have not seen very much i call it mechatronics but it's basically the use of pneumatic systems in CNC machines.
John Saunders: You look at how it's made, showing any sort of factory with bottles or or pharmaceutical pills, it's like...
johngrimsmo: Yeah. There's a million of them Yeah.
John Saunders: Exactly. They're like super inexpensive, very reliable, high. um Hi.
johngrimsmo: pneumatic, not hydraulic.
John Saunders: Psych okay. Correct.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: Although, sure, but pneumatic tends to be normal.
johngrimsmo: Like you see those clamps that like go up turn over and pull down
John Saunders: begin. Mm hmm. Okay. Well, so that's what I've been sort of thinking about is just keeping an open mind of like. Why can't you? build a clamp that they make swing clamps like that already off the available to purchase that come up.
John Saunders: so that they can Um, clamp a apart and then move out of the way that can be an m code actuated thing It's very cool.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: Could you even have an a pneumatic that comes up and... stabilizes a part underneath it could you have a pneumatic that comes up and threads in that would be the real like Ooh.
johngrimsmo: Mm.
John Saunders: um
johngrimsmo: Interesting.
John Saunders: So. um That's probably more related to some of the things we were thinking about for automating some of our hobby fixture plates, which would be really interesting, but not not on today's front burner.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: um
johngrimsmo: I mean, what's rolling through my mind right now is in order to support Saunders Machine Works and Saunders Fixture Works, you need Saunders Lathe Works to make all these parts.
John Saunders: It works. Yeah. the... I almost, it's funny enough that I almost would put up a sign next door if we end up expanding just because that that was hilarious.
johngrimsmo: Yep. Yeah.
John Saunders: um But then maybe it's like the door actually just we just sheetrock the door closed Um, yeah please turn around please go away no um yeah
johngrimsmo: permanently closed.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: So our our next Grant just DM and me over our service he has he just got the first m code working on the new brother which is freaking awesome with the pneumatic solenoid The fixture plate for that machine is going out to anodizing right now.
John Saunders: I'm waiting on the Chuck. So hopefully when we come back from IMTS, we will be ready to. And I'm actually. holding the new iteration of the soft jaws for the pneumatic mice.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: So I think we're ready to start making parts.
johngrimsmo: on a
John Saunders: which i'm
johngrimsmo: 3 -axis like s700
John Saunders: for now.
John Saunders: Three plus one, so it has a fourth axis.
johngrimsmo: It has for the hour, obviously.
John Saunders: Yep. Yep.
johngrimsmo: I still can't wrap my head around how you're getting ah away from the table moving. head yeah table moving not head moving thing.
John Saunders: We're not. The whole bar will have to move for now.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: If this all works, we'll buy an R series.
johngrimsmo: yeah Yeah, you said that before. But can... can you make parts this way like will it work work
John Saunders: Oh yeah. It's a...
johngrimsmo: What am I missing?
John Saunders: um, The material that we're using is Lightweight enough where I could pick up Five. 12 foot bars of myself. like
johngrimsmo: So it's not a problem.
John Saunders: So it'll be supported.
johngrimsmo: if the bar is short enough to be all within the machine
John Saunders: It's not, drill hole for the machine side.
johngrimsmo: So if you had a slot through the machine side.
John Saunders: Sure.
johngrimsmo: that the bark and traverse then like, No problem. it that's it works just fine. The only benefit to an R series is that now your table is fixed. And.
johngrimsmo: your bar is not flopping around all over the place when the table's moving.
John Saunders: The benefit of the R series is that none of this really works long -term unless you can actually integrate a true uh commercial bar feeder.
johngrimsmo: Sure.
John Saunders: because even a 12 foot bar won't run long enough on some parts to be interesting.
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: I mean, it would be interesting, but not right. Like you really need to have a bar. changer and i do believe that can work i know it has been done um i don't know how to do that yet one step at a time.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. But even CJ's first method where he had 18 inch bars
John Saunders: Mm -hmm
johngrimsmo: in in the r series and like one spindle grip would pick up a new bar and put it in to the other table Like you could do that on your machine.
John Saunders: Mhm.
johngrimsmo: Couldn't you?
John Saunders: No, no, no. Oh, yeah yes, you could. For sure.
johngrimsmo: You could, as long as the bar is short enough that it's not.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: You could.
johngrimsmo: It's interesting.
John Saunders: Hmm. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Very cool.
John Saunders: all yeah well Once we get to those situations, so like even even me, like I'm a bootstrapper, I don't love this. like If we get to the point where I just can't figure out the bar feeder, paying somebody a...
John Saunders: not insignificant amount of money to come help us do that integration um
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: that's a rare example where i will happily write that check most of the time it's like nope i'll figure this out bootstrap like don't know but um
johngrimsmo: Yep. Sure.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, like... You would by that time you would have a very detailed checklist to be like this is what I want exactly And you get LNS or whoever to come in and be like, solve this problem for me.
johngrimsmo: And here's a service check and done. And then...
John Saunders: It'll actually be interesting.
johngrimsmo: A week or two later, you're done.
John Saunders: to I hadn't really thought about it, but everything that Rob's doing with Shatter and how much I'm realizing how... relatively open the brother is. um It would be interesting if you can...
John Saunders: Um, the whole I don't know what I don't know here, except some of the problems are. who's in control the bar feeder versus the machine and how do you handle remnants and how do you communicate between the two and shirt fire signals but
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: um It's like the way I used to joke, it's like, worst case, I'll put a darned web camera at the control that actually just reads the... Reads the screen and makes decisions for that.
John Saunders: That's a terrible outflow, but you could do it
johngrimsmo: Right. Yep.
John Saunders: Yeah.
John Saunders: Sorry, that it was ah I some air time there.
johngrimsmo: That's good. That's good. Okay, last thing is... I... fell down the rabbit hole again of white light interferometry obsession.
John Saunders: Mm -hmm.
johngrimsmo: It's been on the shelf for a couple of months and that's fine. But then... Watching our team try to diagnose gouges and scratches in parts. um Under the microscope, we've got a beautiful Zeiss microscope.
John Saunders: Mm -hmm
johngrimsmo: And, you know. watching them try to like either measure or understand or see all these scratches and I'm like ah If my interferometer would work... and be here in the shop and was like...
johngrimsmo: easy enough workflow, like it would just give them all the answers they need. Oh, that scratch is one thou deep. We're not going to sand through it. or
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: you know as and like like a literal go no go measurement
John Saunders: Oh sure, sure.
johngrimsmo: not a subjective.
John Saunders: That's interesting
johngrimsmo: um yeah i think we can work on that no it's like no that that is out of tolerance that scratch um So. Yes, I did a bunch more research.
John Saunders: So where, so. where you so where are you
johngrimsmo: So like my whole first version one of mantra from like technically functions, but is total. not useful. It's...
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: Doesn't make good results, whatever, but. That taught me. what i need to know and what i need to buy next in order to make like the real the proper version two which is not a lot of stuff maybe a thousand fifteen hundred dollars worth of like like mitch toyo microscope objectives from ebay like like nice nice stuff um some more thor lab stuff and then
John Saunders: ah Okay.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: I think now I know what I need to build to make like. a real serious machine.
John Saunders: and
johngrimsmo: which is... Very cool. Um,
John Saunders: But enough money to where like, you don't want to just. end up saying oh that didn't work and throw in the trash
johngrimsmo: Correct.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: It proves still that i I want this badly in my life. um
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: More more than just like for fun
John Saunders: Come.
johngrimsmo: I actually want it production ready in the shop, like like you were talking about.
John Saunders: Yeah, yeah.
johngrimsmo: um And we would actually use it. Maybe not daily, but certainly. every other daily
John Saunders: oh dude
johngrimsmo: Like probably daily.
John Saunders: What you just said, like knowing whether you're going to resolve a part. like if it's if it's four tenths you're fine and if it's two thousand you need to change the process that's huge shock
johngrimsmo: And being able to just undeniably. See that. Um,
John Saunders: It's cool.
johngrimsmo: And it even diagnosed where did the scratch come from? Is it from the centerless grinding company? Is it from the guide bushing in our machine? You can literally see that based on the profile of the scratch.
John Saunders: Hmm.
johngrimsmo: um
John Saunders: with the Sorry, the Swiss lathe is damaging parts.
johngrimsmo: Ken.
John Saunders: Is that what I'm hearing?
johngrimsmo: It can. Yeah.
John Saunders: and I've got a solution for that.
johngrimsmo: No lates.
John Saunders: Correct.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: We were thinking actually I'll throw this out there to see if we get any responses We were thinking about doing since we finally got rid of our any last lathe in our shop we we're thinking about doing like a 2026 Saunders Machine Works Node Lathe Challenge Coin.
johngrimsmo: ah You should.
John Saunders: Maybe we'll do that. Maybe we'll do it out of our barfed mill as like a gag gift thing.
johngrimsmo: that That would be funny.
John Saunders: print biking Ready?
johngrimsmo: Well, you got four days to give them away at IMTS to only only male people.
John Saunders: but Yeah. That's awesome. Well, good do it, John. Like, I don't.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Not that you need my encouragement, but like.
johngrimsmo: No.
John Saunders: I this is something I love to see you bring home.
johngrimsmo: Like part of me is tempted to order those parts like tonight so that they're here by the time I come back from IMTS
John Saunders: It did.
John Saunders: Oh sure, sure, sure.
johngrimsmo: And then that's like a free week of of travel time that I'm not eagerly waiting for them. like
John Saunders: Why not?
johngrimsmo: It's tempting. Yeah, it's just money. but
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Yeah. If I may quickly add, we had a great response to showing the project that we've been working on, which I call the telecentric.
johngrimsmo: Mmm.
John Saunders: automated vision system. And I. Somebody was like, oh, share the code, share the code. And I was just like, dude, I vibe coded this, like what? But then it occurred to me like, no, let me do a little bit more work on it and then I'll put it out on Git and share that because I think people can probably make it better.
johngrimsmo: Yeah as a starting place it is nice to start with something
John Saunders: Yeah, absolutely. And we'll share what we've learned. But I also am having some setbacks, frankly, to be candid. Now, setbacks about how we want it to be like sub.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: fo accuracy so i think for a lot of people for what this costs it would still be super relevant um But I'm not happy at the moment. So I'll leave it at that because it's a good topic to pick up on next time we talk.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, sweet So next week. um I don't know if we'll record one at the show.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: We might we might not. But, uh...
John Saunders: Sure.
johngrimsmo: Otherwise we're going to enjoy ourselves very much.
John Saunders: Adios. Oh. I'll see you next week
johngrimsmo: See you in a few days, buddy.
John Saunders: That sounds good to me. Take care.
johngrimsmo: All right. Take care. Bye.
