Transcript
johngrimsmo: Good morning and welcome to the Business of Machining episode 465. My name is John Grimsmo.
John Saunders: My name is John Sunters.
johngrimsmo: And this is, ah you know, your manufacturing podcast where two friends get to see each other on video face to face and post an audio and nobody's listening and we just get to talk about what's on our mind.
John Saunders: Yeah. Bingo. I have. Two mind -blowing to me things. One couldn't be simpler. And one couldn't be more cutting edge advanced.
johngrimsmo: Ooh.
John Saunders: And then I mean, honestly, I've been on fire.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: We've been on fire. Yeah. um I'm not even gonna give you a list. It's just.
johngrimsmo: Nice.
John Saunders: we're just going to go through it
johngrimsmo: That's awesome.
John Saunders: ah but
johngrimsmo: Um... Today, Wednesday is my birthday.
John Saunders: Happy birthday!
johngrimsmo: Thank you. And so in an hour, I'm leaving for kids and I are going to Niagara Falls and we're doing a jet boat tour. where...
John Saunders: Oh awesome.
johngrimsmo: You get like soaked.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. so
John Saunders: Like at the falls.
johngrimsmo: uh under the falls you don't get to see the falls but like the river below it
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: Um, so you get close -ish to the falls but you know it's around the corner Still safe.
John Saunders: Kia ora.
johngrimsmo: But yeah, it's like Whitewater Rapids in this big boat with 50 people in it, just splashing and rooting around and doing. the boat version of donuts, whatever that is. And. the We did it a couple years ago for Eric's bri bachelor party and it was so much fun.
johngrimsmo: So now the kids are old enough and they're like.
John Saunders: the
johngrimsmo: I want it.
John Saunders: This is different than the Maid of the Mist?
johngrimsmo: totally different than May of the Mist.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: made of the mist yeah you get wet you wear the poncho and you you know get close to the falls this is like whitewater rafting, but in a jet boat.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Um,
John Saunders: cool
johngrimsmo: yeah it's really cool
John Saunders: It was awesome.
johngrimsmo: So. Yes, that'll be fun. So I've got Not a lot of time. before i before I'm out. but Very excited for that.
John Saunders: All good.
johngrimsmo: And yeah, I've got a good list too. um I had an email. you might've gotten it too last week. And they're like, um, podcast this week because i like i check it at midnight like
John Saunders: Yeah. yeah
johngrimsmo: So we don't have a place where we announce like, oh, other than Instagram, sometimes sometimes we'll remember and be like, no episode this week.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: I mean, at the end of the day, this is like fun for us. This is extra. And I'm sorry if we don't always post, but we do our best. and Yeah. I don't know. It's what it is.
John Saunders: I had that same thought when I was like, oh, I should do a little like YouTube shop update video. But it's just because it's like the most wholesome, fun part of sharing along. like You and I even talked about like, do we want to change what we do with this podcast? We've had people reach out now explicitly being like, Hey, we want to.
John Saunders: sponsor it and um you know, I don't wanna say anything, cause like, I don't know, whatever. it's just i enjoy that like yeah you know
johngrimsmo: Yep, yep.
John Saunders: didn't work so
johngrimsmo: It doesn't need to be anything more than it is. and
John Saunders: Two friends.
johngrimsmo: Exactly. I appreciate that. And I am looking forward to seeing you. I assume you're coming to IMTS.
John Saunders: I am looking forward to it
johngrimsmo: Sweet. Yeah, I'm super looking forward to that a few weeks away. Um, Yeah, so that'll be good.
John Saunders: Yeah, I've actually booked some time with some people
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: and we've got two of our guys here coming, Alex and Grant.
johngrimsmo: Nice.
John Saunders: And they've got some stuff they need to do. so Um, I've said this to you, good.
johngrimsmo: So. let's Let's talk about that. I want to hear more about why you're booking time with people.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: Like, is it for future purchases? But go ahead and finish your thought.
John Saunders: No, just like. it's It's a mix of like... wanting to do stuff and learn stuff, wanting to see new stuff. and not wanting to leave and like so often it feels like a month after imts i'm like oh i really wish i looked at like bar champ feeder machines or this type of cutting tool or work like whatever and so um And I'm a little bit prone to like getting over. overthinking that sort of stuff but um
John Saunders: it is great to see people and and for sure seeing people is probably a better way to learn because frankly it's like random you or Dylan or Zappatini is like, hey, this is really interesting.
John Saunders: Like, OK, I'll go check it out because.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: If you look at the hundreds, if not thousands of booths, it's not possible to go to each one and sort of be like. What do you have that's actually uniquely cool and interesting?
johngrimsmo: to me. Okay.
John Saunders: Yeah, well, sure. Yes.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Right.
johngrimsmo: yeah
John Saunders: um So word of mouth matters. um Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, good. No, I I'm very excited to go, but it's interesting because you got me thinking, I don't actually have a list at all. i have I have zero. you know, goals, hit lists, like places I need to be.
johngrimsmo: I just want to absorb. I definitely want to look more at the ultra precision stuff. um See if there's any interferometry stuff there. I definitely, I want to learn.
John Saunders: Mm hmm.
johngrimsmo: I want to talk to people. I want to see it in action. I want to bring some parts in my pocket that I can measure and inspect on all this equipment that'll be there. um I don't really have a shopping list.
johngrimsmo: I'm not. don't feel like i'm in a position right now to buy anything like Mega.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: So like, I don't know. I'm just excited to go and vibe out with all my friends and all the the industry. Um,
John Saunders: Yeah. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Good. Some of the stuff I'll... I'm looking to do will probably also tie into my list sort of today.
johngrimsmo: Nice.
John Saunders: um Yeah. Uh... Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Well dig in you can start
John Saunders: Sure. Um. Well, in the spirit of like something I would absolutely tell you if this was not a publicly recorded podcast. trying to ignore that it is a recorded podcast.
John Saunders: um the forever for the 10 plus years we've been in this building. um we have had a neighbor tenant next door as FedEx.
John Saunders: And. uh punchline is we do own the building they have been a tenant um To me, that was always kind of the American dream. A lot of the people that I look up to were like, hey, that's how you can make numbers work. and For a long time, those numbers have worked in the Midwest.
johngrimsmo: And then. They did. Yeah.
John Saunders: I've heard that they don't work in you know California or New York, but it is what it is.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: and um FedEx is leading
johngrimsmo: Oh.
John Saunders: somewhat early, somewhat by surprise, appears like they're closing down about 30 % of their national footprint.
johngrimsmo: Ugh.
John Saunders: um And I don't know why. I don't really care. It doesn't really matter. I suspect it's kind of like, hey.
johngrimsmo: Good.
John Saunders: you know we can have our drivers drive further, which frankly stinks for them, but you know, it's fewer. facilities overhead managers that kind of thing i think i would guess amazon has certainly disrupted delivery, all that, regardless.
John Saunders: um We now. need to think about. whether Saunders is going to double its square footage.
johngrimsmo: That's interesting. Had you considered that before they mentioned anything? Like you had the building next door.
John Saunders: Well, soon
johngrimsmo: You might even still own it. I don't know but
John Saunders: Yeah, so...
johngrimsmo: It's different though.
John Saunders: it's different. It is really different. And I'll tell you, having an ability next door. Um. And forgive me because I think you have a disconnected building, but it sucks.
johngrimsmo: we It works for us, but...
John Saunders: No, it sucks.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Sorry. Like there's no situation where it's having them disconnected is better. Like sharing, I need the micrometers or the dial pins or talk to somebody it's.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: um It. not as ideal. um so From a real estate perspective, and it's somewhat ironic or whatever but like normally like forever fedex was like the gold standards it's like oh you have a fedex long -term tripling at least like that's It's gold.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Ironically, they're leaving, so it's kind of like, well, I didn't bore you out, but that's it's fine. um
johngrimsmo: Well, after 10 years, like.
John Saunders: No, agree.
johngrimsmo: You're good.
John Saunders: um But would I? Would I commit a long term lease? to somebody else especially like a non -credit tenant At this point, no, I would not.
johngrimsmo: Interesting.
John Saunders: when I go through the hassle of demising the space to to have some of it myself and some for somebody else probably not because of security and bathrooms and ingress egress all that stuff um
johngrimsmo: They're completely like concrete separated right now, right?
John Saunders: All right.
John Saunders: So it's weird. Yeah, I've never really dug in, but the way that...
johngrimsmo: You know what I'm talking about. it
John Saunders: Well, because the... i know well I knew of the family that built the buildings, and they built the FedEx half first. They always planned to build our half, but they waited until...
John Saunders: They found a tenant, which happened to be the local. community college.
johngrimsmo: right
John Saunders: And so they actually were. I don't know if they were done or under construction, but basically as soon as they finished the FedEx app, then they started building ours. We have separate. separate utilities separate everything but um There's a block wall.
John Saunders: that we've never busted through that. um There's no air gap. Like we should be able to go through one, I guess maybe two layers of cinder block. No, it should be one. I've seen it from the roof. and and and combined abilities.
John Saunders: Presupposing the floor is level. These are like the weird things you don't think about. like If a four's off an inch, that's not good for...
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: for what you saw.
johngrimsmo: Interesting. Sort of like how you're... Like your unit has kind of two halves to it
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: with a cinder block separator. And like.
John Saunders: That's actually just the drywall studded wall.
johngrimsmo: Oh, is it really?
John Saunders: you could You could rip that out except it has some power and water in it.
johngrimsmo: Interesting.
John Saunders: That would be more work. but It's not structural.
johngrimsmo: Okay. Okay. Interesting.
John Saunders: This is structural, so you'd have to have an engineer come in and do a header beam and all that.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Which is all doable, but like... that's interesting ah Yeah, what a thought process, right?
John Saunders: Yeah, and that's what I wanted to just share in the spirit of the stuff i talked to you about or to the extent folks listening you know
johngrimsmo: Right.
John Saunders: It's... Some of the reasons I have some concern is that. More space and more machines doesn't equal. happiness And when I say happiness, I mean like success and focus and like.
John Saunders: You do accumulate stuff or you get inefficient. Now, we really could use some more space.
johngrimsmo: Mm -hmm
John Saunders: There's some really interesting things. um i think we could do but um um I want to be judicious with it. and I think. Not to get too philosophical or...
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: whatever, but like, I think we got to where we are by being judicious and prudent. And so now's not the time to just sort of say. whatever because it's like well not only are we gonna like We're gonna basically Saunders is going to incur the rent however you want it.
John Saunders: structure that like it will be a burden on Saunders and um
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: you know we're not going to take the space as is like we would do some work to it and Something I gotta think through.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Hmm. and And you're...
John Saunders: but
johngrimsmo: ah kind of committing to growth at that point or at least expansion and freedom and Whatever and I'm sure your brain can't help but go and we could fit like four more machines in there and if we did we got that like i don't know
John Saunders: Dude. 14.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, easy.
John Saunders: uh The one thing that I will actually give my wife a ton of credit for is when we're talking about this Oh. I don't know if she said it or I said it, but it was.
John Saunders: it was kind of like a really fun like confidence comes from within. Every time I bet on myself, Sean. It's turned out pretty darn good.
johngrimsmo: No, you invested in yourself every step of the way.
John Saunders: um Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: So I'll leave it at that, but I just want to share. That's what's been on my mind.
johngrimsmo: That's awesome. no I can totally imagine you don't even have solutions in your head you just have a bunch of ideas and just trying to see it from all angles.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Now I... In a way, I don't envy you because that's a big decision. you know, it kind of sprung upon you and you have some choices and options and yeah, take your time.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: No rush. I mean, even if it sits vacant for like... a while. Startup. problem like really really
John Saunders: Well, it'll be weird. I don't want to get into all the details, but...
johngrimsmo: For sure.
John Saunders: it's there The lease is not over with FedEx. So that's we'll see where that goes.
johngrimsmo: Got it.
johngrimsmo: Interesting.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: um
johngrimsmo: what's What's their timeframe? If you know what I'm asking.
John Saunders: The note on the door is like, we're closing in four days. We've known it for about a month or two, but it's oddly abrupt.
johngrimsmo: Okay, yeah Amen.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: That's what big corporate does. We're just going to shut that location, that location. Who cares about Zanesville? um and i assume you guys use fedex primarily which is very handy having it next door i assume for pickups and deliveries. and
John Saunders: Yep. But we also have grown enough to where. um
johngrimsmo: Doesn't matter.
John Saunders: it's It's not that it doesn't matter. It's been wonderfully nice, but like, okay, we'll work with it.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Like that's a good, actually that's another segue to my leadership. where I've really struggle to adapt as a leader just being trying to be introspective is just like That's... That's not my problem.
John Saunders: We have. Yvonne and Serena who do a great job at handling all of our shipping logistics. They have relationships with these companies. and if we need to now incur the cost of scheduling pickups which i hated five years ago when i was looking at this myself. It's like, that's just not even something that's like, we got a team that handles that stuff.
johngrimsmo: Love it.
John Saunders: Saunders, like a million other businesses. We ship. dozens of packages a day usually like that That'll get taken care of.
johngrimsmo: Done.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Goodnight.
John Saunders: um
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: Yeah, what what you what do you got?
johngrimsmo: Um... Our new hire starts on Monday.
John Saunders: Ooh, congrats.
johngrimsmo: Deal.
John Saunders: Yes, right, right.
johngrimsmo: interviews went fantastic and we picked a a very strong candidate, very, very strong.
John Saunders: Good.
johngrimsmo: um And yeah, starts in a couple days. and integration period, training, learning. And so in the... primarily customer service.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: plus plus roll.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: We'll see where that lands. and uh Yeah, we're all super excited.
John Saunders: Good.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: That's awesome. How formal, like do like when that person shows up? Yes. 9 a .m., whatever, on Monday. Is it like, is it how much, how formally has Grimm's onboarding come? Or is it more just like, you know, just kind of like.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, we don't have like anything an onboarding template.
John Saunders: Mm hmm.
johngrimsmo: There are certainly some internal things we have to add you to various systems, create an email, blah, blah.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: And that should be written down into a procedure. But... um Yeah, I mean, role dependent. If we hire a machinist or if we hire a... customer support person or a finished like It's hands -on.
johngrimsmo: Just like...
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: plop you here and we're going to talk to you about this stuff.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And then various walking around, meeting everybody. and you know just getting getting acquainted
John Saunders: Yeah. Very nice.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, so looking forward to that. It's exciting. It's been two and a half years since we've hired anybody. so
John Saunders: Is that right?
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Yeah. I think it was maybe before we hit record two weeks ago that you were mentioning that Jeff Jeff has been around.
johngrimsmo: Did I finish?
John Saunders: for is I was like, o maybe you was maybe it was on.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: uh yeah i was like whoa it's crazy
johngrimsmo: All right.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: So.
John Saunders: Okay, here are my... crazy uh Simple, dumb, simple, dumb ah and and crazy awesome. Revelations. Grant sent me a DM a week or two goes like hey, will you buy this for the shop?
John Saunders: and i was And I looked at it and it looked like it was a label maker and we got like a bunch of label makers.
johngrimsmo: I like the sound of that.
John Saunders: and It's like, I'll buy another one. I don't know why we need another one. And then I realized. It is a label maker that prints the label onto the heat shrink tubing.
johngrimsmo: I've heard about those. I looked into it a little bit.
John Saunders: 50 bucks!
johngrimsmo: No way.
John Saunders: And so the heat shrink tubing is like inside the cartridge or whatever. I didn't I've seen it, I've used it use myself.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, yeah
John Saunders: And so, yeah. as all the IO stuff we're doing for the robots and just in general, it's like.
johngrimsmo: Oh totally.
John Saunders: you can type numbers, names, whatever you hit print, and it's on the... like actually on the heat shrink tubing.
johngrimsmo: So professional.
John Saunders: Done. um That was the simple.
johngrimsmo: What? what information is printing like a barcode or just a name curious
John Saunders: I think it's just text.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, okay.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: That's awesome.
John Saunders: I know.
johngrimsmo: I've seen that before
John Saunders: barcode is just a font and maybe you could
johngrimsmo: Right.
John Saunders: um Yeah. And the cool, extreme cool one is, I want to make sure I didn't already mention it. the I mentioned the Kenna Metal 3D printed. drills.
johngrimsmo: Uh, Maybe. Yeah.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Custom.
John Saunders: So can it... Yes, so these are custom multi...
johngrimsmo: like yeah, the um Multi spot drill everything, right?
John Saunders: Yes. so they 3d printed them with something that they're releasing i think at imts so i was like i think i mentioned that on the podcast so i hope i don't get in trouble Um,
John Saunders: and
johngrimsmo: Spoiler.
John Saunders: Yeah. um They are brazed PCD. So they're for drilling aluminum, but it's a four or five function drill. I think it has. to...
John Saunders: three Two diameters, two chamfers. But the top diameters are basically like a a reamer. like Insanely incredible. um actually in justin gray could kind of third party validate this he was using some kind of metal ah PCV drills as a way to make his fidget tools and he was getting
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: you know like better than reaming quality repeatability finishes technologies and so we talked to the chemical engineers about the print and the design and the expectations and how we're going to use it and what it could do And it was great to work with them, go through the experience. took It did take quite a long time to get the tools. um They agreed to do them kind of on test.
John Saunders: to learn on their own front because sure enough they brought them in and there were some things that didn't work for them so They're kind of going back to to tweak that. But... sometimes it's weird because if you're a one -man shop it's really hard to get like Sandvik isn't going to come into your shop and just start doing custom solutions for what they will for a price. but like but similarly if you're if you're Honda.
John Saunders: it's very difficult for some of these kind i think tooling companies to actually get time with engineers and machines to do some r and d so i think we're in this sweet spot because
johngrimsmo: Hmm. Interesting.
John Saunders: i told the guys i'm like yeah i mean we need some heads up but for most in the most part we could schedule a day or half a day any point in time to spend with your engineers testing stuff no paperwork no hassle like we'll provide the machines material we don't care And they're like, man, that's actually super nice.
johngrimsmo: Hmm
John Saunders: um So yeah, I just want to share that.
johngrimsmo: Very cool. Yeah, we actually had um Sumitomo come in.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: last week. and drop off a test. um Swiss lathe turning tool holder with a quick change replaceable head.
John Saunders: Mm hmm.
johngrimsmo: so like a stick tool basically but with a quick change head and uh their inserts for stainless and titanium and we've tried a couple other quick change heads we've tried sandvik we've tried Seiko.
johngrimsmo: and I think one other. And like some don't like others, you know, some chatter in stainless, but they're good in titanium. Some are not as repeatable, blah, blah, blah. So we're trying their offering and they were happy to give us a test. And kind of like you said, like.
johngrimsmo: kind of a medium sized shop with more than a few people they're pretty happy to come in and just you know be an apps engineer for a couple hours and
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: you know. and and play around they actually drove our guy to the local hydraulic store and like pick fittings to make it work.
John Saunders: Oh.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Because they're like, oh, we don't have the fitting for that.
John Saunders: What is for the through?
johngrimsmo: So, yeah, for through...
John Saunders: That's right.
johngrimsmo: through Gullit.
John Saunders: Interesting.
johngrimsmo: And so that was great.
John Saunders: Oh, hey, but that reminds you, have you modified your brother for Through Spindle Air?
johngrimsmo: I've not. I've read all about it before.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: I think I've got Ken's write -up somewhere. but
John Saunders: Oh, is that, did Ken do it right up?
johngrimsmo: I think so.
John Saunders: I need to find that thing.
johngrimsmo: Just ask him.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: Um,
John Saunders: Yeah. well I agree.
johngrimsmo: No, I haven't I've always kind of wanted to but You need it for a spindle gripper, right?
John Saunders: Um. it looks like the shunk spindle gripper we have actually would work off of through spindle coolant but i think i would rather have air as an option um and lots of people have done it there's we've gotten some info um tip of the hat to blackwell for sharing some things on that and others but um
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: I think Grant had a couple questions. and I just...
johngrimsmo: I mean with. coolant The internal is like 300 PSI, but with shop air, it's like 100 PSI. So do you get more gripping force with coolant? because the more pressure.
John Saunders: Good question.
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: Don't know. And I don't think. Spindle gripping is not like vice gripping. It's pretty feeble.
johngrimsmo: Sure. It's like fingers.
John Saunders: Kind of yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Um...
johngrimsmo: So yeah, I've thought about it for like air blast. We use our through spindle air on the kern. every day.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: It's built into the process. I was like, yeah, it'd be nice on this video to blow stuff out and not just through coolant stuff out. um
John Saunders: Yes.
johngrimsmo: But no, I haven't done it yet.
John Saunders: Okay. Cheers.
John Saunders: What's next on your list?
johngrimsmo: Does that count your dumb, cool, simple, dumb ideas?
John Saunders: dumb Dumb fun was the... He shrink.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Cool, fun was kind of it, yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, got it. um let's see what's having an issue on our mori right now where That's where we make our... Norseman. top side of the handles and Norseman blade bevels. So we hard mill.
johngrimsmo: the stepped lines and the blade bevels. Been doing it on the Mori forever. The code is you know practically still from 2019. um And it it works. And all of a sudden.
johngrimsmo: the bevels started being more off -center. And like, so we made a bunch of bad bubbles. and we're like what the heck? What's wrong? um Turns out we... i forget why oh we had to replace the um Um...
johngrimsmo: OTS tool setter. ceramic tool touch -off thing.
John Saunders: Mm hmm.
johngrimsmo: because there was actually a hole in it.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: from all like millions of touches.
John Saunders: but
johngrimsmo: Um, So we we replaced that, calibrated that.
John Saunders: That's hilarious.
johngrimsmo: and then we have to calibrate the probe. And we used Renishaw's new ACS probe. yeah probe calibration device which has like a cool plunger on it and a tooling ball on the side it's a pretty neat thing
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: up. I was up north with my family while... the team calibrated this. Anyway, so they calibrated it. They're all confident. And then I think... The probe is not.
johngrimsmo: actually calibrated. i think it's like it thinks it's calibrated but it's not actually calibrated so yesterday i put an indicator in the spindle
John Saunders: Mm -hmm.
johngrimsmo: like on center, and then I indicated a a hole. And I'm like, this is off by 3000. And... even though we thought it was calibrated. like My numbers show that it's off by 3 ,000.
johngrimsmo: and um still need to dig in with the guys because they're giving me more conflicting information i'm like i don't know what's right but let's go back to old school here and sometimes you just like
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: I need to see the indicator move before I trust the numbers. Um,
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: But yeah, so before I go making any like program changes because the program shouldn't be the solution.
John Saunders: Peace out.
johngrimsmo: You know, it's like.
John Saunders: Right. Right.
johngrimsmo: Yes, I can comp it, but it's wrong. Something's wrong. something Something's wrong.
John Saunders: Right.
johngrimsmo: I don't know what. So I do kind of like that. that hunt. of you know find the problem.
John Saunders: Fishbone.
johngrimsmo: Yes.
John Saunders: I mean, it sounds like you already know the answer, I know, but like...
johngrimsmo: That's a good point. No, I'm glad you remember that because I forgot it.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. And that was Angela that... Good. showed me that. but
John Saunders: but Like, yes, like, hold on, guys. Before we start.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: ah fixing it. What caused the problem?
johngrimsmo: What is the simplest, you know, the simplest solution is usually the the actual solution.
John Saunders: Right.
johngrimsmo: and putting band -aids on it isn't the solution either so um the machine is down it's been down for a couple days um i haven't had a lot of time to like be on it. So it's either waiting for me or the guys trying to figure it out. separately.
johngrimsmo: And... Yeah, so we're like... ships passing in the night. you know, exchanging one sentence of updates. back and forth.
John Saunders: Uh huh.
johngrimsmo: um And I... if we cut out early on this podcast i'll be able to get maybe 20 minutes with them and and catch up um
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: before I go jet boating.
John Saunders: Win. We can keep it quick.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. anyway so that that's that but it's it's fine but it's um Just another thing.
John Saunders: Everything's fine.
johngrimsmo: Everything's fine. Everything's fine.
John Saunders: that Is that DuraVertical 10 years old?
johngrimsmo: 11.
John Saunders: Holy cow, I think it was 2016 when I first actually finally met you at that Tormach event
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: I think that was 15. Because i remember I remember you asking me.
John Saunders: Fifteen? Okay.
johngrimsmo: uh on stage in front of 100 people can you tell us about the new machine you just got? And I said, no.
John Saunders: oh
johngrimsmo: Like, we're at the Tormac event.
John Saunders: it okay Yeah, yeah.
johngrimsmo: we're Like, no.
John Saunders: yeah
johngrimsmo: Yeah, so that was 2015 when I first got it end of summer.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: It's like now basically. Um, So that is 11 years old now. It's crazy.
John Saunders: Crazy John.
johngrimsmo: it's still that and our knack are the most reliable
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: nothing ever goes wrong machines, knock on wood.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um japanese are just like
John Saunders: Yeah, right. here
johngrimsmo: beasts. But they're also the two machines I would probably replace with something else.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: You know, if I could just get rid of them and and buy something else.
John Saunders: Sure.
johngrimsmo: That's funny.
John Saunders: Sure. Go ahead, Ms.
johngrimsmo: um because they're like big and powerful and slow and strong and like
John Saunders: Biden.
johngrimsmo: capable in all the wrong ways. For what we do um you know, a small nimble speedio or another Swiss lathe or something like that is just way more suited for what we do. than those big machines. They're fantastic.
johngrimsmo: and they're paid off and that's fantastic and you know I could still get good money for them but um a lot of effort and cost to like replace them with something else so just haven't thought too much about it
John Saunders: Sir?
John Saunders: Sounds like some good IMTS homework. Knowing you don't have to.
johngrimsmo: True.
John Saunders: Like.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: It's only every two years. You don't have to do anything, but at least at least know what you would do.
johngrimsmo: Mm -hmm Exactly.
John Saunders: Um. Because like you said, that dirt vertical is a good machine. Those will sell.
johngrimsmo: The great machine
John Saunders: Yeah
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: um I... Two things that were kicking our butts. One kind of a PSA, if anyone cares or listening, but. We use a reverse osmosis system like so many r RO systems.
John Saunders: There's what's called an automatic shutoff valve or ASO. Looks like a... size of a half dollar. and it has four ports on it. And basically when you're... um when the float valve in ah in a tank or toilet bowl sort of thing When it lifts up, it causes that ASO valve to shut off.
John Saunders: and no longer bring more r RO water through through the whole system.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. man
John Saunders: very common they're 10 bucks and I went to replace our RO filters and the RO system wasn't working great afterward, which is kind of odd. I did some troubleshooting. fishbone diagram sort of thing. and was pulling out swapping hoses, trying to kind of pound on my head against.
John Saunders: And then I realized, wow, over. you know five years or something. just enough mineral sediment had built up in that ASO valve and it kind of like kidney stones, if you will, like little specks.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: And so it was probably severely restricting the flow even before I just replaced it. and i was starting to clean out and i'm like john stop spy doing like this is Like, you know.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: and uh It's just kind of those like. it's not a big deal it was easy to replace but like we probably wasted a year or two's worth of water by like not knowing that that was so inefficient and i don't know what the lesson is there because it's it's kind of like what you said like How do you know on the dura vertical that it's?
John Saunders: the probe is off until you downstream somebody catches a part and you're like Why did this change after so many years?
johngrimsmo: Yep, yep.
John Saunders: Yeah. But I guess my PSA is if anybody runs RO systems, maybe check flow rates and...
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: just replace the ah the stuff every four years or something.
johngrimsmo: Right. And that's the problem is. you know everything mechanical breaks eventually And. What is the replacement schedule for everything in your shop?
John Saunders: Well, breaking would have been fine. It was that middle ground that's... That's that stinks.
johngrimsmo: yep yep it's that like uh Yeah.
John Saunders: Um... And the other one is... The brother is... So we now have three 700s. We call them ABC. A is...
johngrimsmo: Nice.
John Saunders: A is good. cooking that's the one that has been running parks and now the problems are Okay, now we're having to deal with like... it shut off at i don't know what time 1am or something because enough chips built up that the door didn't open the last quarter inch.
John Saunders: automatically And that's acceptable. Like I can't really. i'd be upset about that
johngrimsmo: You're learning a failure point.
John Saunders: yeah um but automation is tough like there's all these little like whether you have a tool um We're in this. Good. deliberate stage, but a a little bit stressful stage because until the C machine comes online.
John Saunders: When the C machine comes online, we can take tools out of the A machine that'll let us use sister tools, which will let us not worry about overnight tool. tools breaking out or wearing, which would be really nice. and um Grant just figured out something that is.
John Saunders: absolutely awesome and it now implemented which is the hard stop homing to check material size but the robot is measuring the material itself. Um, And he laughed because he ran a test this morning and and it repeated within two microns with a UR10.
johngrimsmo: No.
John Saunders: So I'm like, well, there's there's the new trade show slogan, right? Screw 10s, man. These UR10s are good down to microns.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: Why buy a curtain?
johngrimsmo: Yep. Just to have the mic, that have the UR10 do all your machining.
John Saunders: Great food.
johngrimsmo: Put a spindle on it. You're good to go.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: That's cool.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: Do you name your URs? Yeah, Oklahoma and stuff, right? like Don't you have state names on your?
John Saunders: Oklahoma.
johngrimsmo: What? No, where you got the UR from.
John Saunders: Oh.
johngrimsmo: you name them like Michigan or whatever.
John Saunders: Ha! No, well. Sorry, true. That was only when we had this like kerfuffle of like we had.
johngrimsmo: Okay, okay.
John Saunders: We had them in Idaho and we bought a new one from Michigan and there was one new one in Chicago. We don't.
johngrimsmo: See, that's funny because that's what sticks in my head and everybody listening.
John Saunders: Thank you very much. That's really fun.
johngrimsmo: And you're like, no, we're way past that. We haven't done that in two years.
John Saunders: Yeah. Well, the... It's funny, it's... for sure a fail. the team voted and i don't know who voted but the team voted and the names were supposed to be Maverick, Goose and Iceman for A, B and C.
johngrimsmo: Nice.
John Saunders: End. This is, a again, a bad example of leadership, but like I can't figure out. which one is which or what. Order they should go in and so I'm just like ABC and so like it's kind of one of those like by virtue of being the shop owner i'm like i'm going to abc sorry
johngrimsmo: Nice.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: That's a good point. Yep. ABC in order of what you purchased and you're gonna put a big a on each one kind of thing
John Saunders: in order to purchase, but more importantly, in the order they are in the shop. Yeah. a a has been A has been running for six months now. It's the steel machine. B is a replica for aluminum. C is the... Barfed Mill. which is Fire.
johngrimsmo: Think it'll work?
John Saunders: Oh, John, yes.
johngrimsmo: Nice. I saw your last little update.
John Saunders: Yeah. I've made like significant progress even since then. um I am. Really excited.
johngrimsmo: So. Share your excitement. What what are the... Oh. What did you think would not work? like Like, what was your first, like, I need to make sure that this works?
John Saunders: So... Because I was arguing with Matt Blackwell about this. matt what Matt Blackwell loves spindle gripping, but... and i'm don't mean to put words in his mouth, but in his scenarios, in many of the spindle gripping scenarios, you're so you're feeding.
John Saunders: the machine. pre -cut stock.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: So you're feeding it. A tray of a hundred parts or a hundred pieces of stock that are relatively close to your final size There's two problems with that one. It means I have to pay or pay for or prep stock number two I want the barfed mill to function.
John Saunders: such that the the bar, the remnant of which when you start with a 12 foot bar, your remnant is 12 feet and works its way down. That is your op. part of your OP1 work holding.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: That's key to this.
johngrimsmo: You're holding on to the bar period
John Saunders: and so Big O, yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: And so now what we have figured out, and I don't know how much, it's kind of funny.
johngrimsmo: Just like a lathe.
John Saunders: like I think I want to share a lot of this, but. um I certainly don't mean to be so arrogant as to think that like it's truly novel, but I haven't seen. a lot of it and I think it's really good. and i'm torn because just being very candid like I've always wanted, it's kind of what you said, like share a lot, but maybe not the last like 1%. I don't know. um the the the The devil's in the details. and in i want to share more after we've got it working but we we figured out some pretty cool ways to go from a bar fed. operation, supporting the materials needed.
John Saunders: um jaw gripper, pneumatic flipping. or process control. Even a really cool example is. In one of the instances, we're going to make four parts at once on a strip.
John Saunders: and the the strip will remain the four parts will remain attached to the strip until OP -2. So when you OP -2 hold them in a traditional vice, um My opinion is you cannot rely on all four parts to be held equally in a vice, even if they were machined together, right?
johngrimsmo: Totally. Yeah.
John Saunders: You get like micron differences. will cause difference clamping pressure. So. uh The guys here came up with a really cool idea of a flexure built into the jaw that accommodates microvariances of each one.
johngrimsmo: Yep. I could sit up.
John Saunders: We printed one. It's like, oh, this is great. And then you start thinking, well, wait a minute. Now I can even send cut send laser cut this. i have like It's just like all coming together.
johngrimsmo: Nice.
johngrimsmo: Two thoughts on that. One is. I bet you even subconsciously, like you guys having a Willimon and your team getting really good at running the Willimon, which is... similar to how your barfed mill is like laid out you know round material vice it's not not a traditional lathe in any way you're like why can't we just have that on a
John Saunders: 100%.
johngrimsmo: on a way cheaper mill.
John Saunders: 100%.
johngrimsmo: That's really cool. And then my second point is. I caution you if you do want to share it. Sharing it throughout is so much. easier. well, I know it's hard, but
John Saunders: Oh, yeah, right.
johngrimsmo: Whereas if you say you're going to share it later, you never will.
John Saunders: Well, that's the reason why I put that Instagram video out.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, right?
John Saunders: on Sunday.
johngrimsmo: Like, that's the thing.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And it was great. and all us nerds out there just want that little dopamine hit and like knowledge dump of like holy crap, like that's a really good idea.
John Saunders: Mm -hmm
johngrimsmo: um Whereas if you kind of, and I'm totally guilty of this too, if you just kind of work and say you'll film it later. Like you never will. Um, So that's why I like my.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: it's kind of favorite videos that I do are I just hold the camera in my hand like. Process videos like day in the life kind of thing
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Um, and it's it's
John Saunders: a good point
johngrimsmo: Very easy to not film. That's the point I'm at right now. but
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: William.
John Saunders: I'm glad you said that. Thank you. Um... Yeah.
johngrimsmo: So other. Were there any big questions you're like? I think it'll work, but...
John Saunders: We've 3D printed so many. Parts. to test it out we're literally waiting on yamazon here is finishing up some of the probing stuff so i don't have access to the machine yet i've not been able to use it um but
johngrimsmo: How long are the bars going to be?
John Saunders: Well, so that's what's interesting is we can... we can gain Almost complete confidence just doing this with say a four foot bar or six foot bar.
johngrimsmo: So you're thinking like go out the side of the door and have a very long bar because it doesn't. Spin.
John Saunders: Correct.
johngrimsmo: it's It's not a lid.
John Saunders: It will never rotate.
johngrimsmo: There's no whip. There's no nothing, right?
John Saunders: Correct. There's no whip. The the max rotation of ah of the rotary itself is 100 RPM, so you couldn't even whip it. um yeah again no ladies will be allowed maybe in the FedEx half.
johngrimsmo: You laid the apartment. Saunders lay the works.
John Saunders: Right. Oh my god. Oh, my that would be hilarious a separate whole separate facility
johngrimsmo: You got Saunders Machine Works, Saunders Lane Works.
John Saunders: Ugh. Ugh. Oh. Um. for this section.
johngrimsmo: Somebody's gonna make you a big eight -foot sign and you're gonna have to put it up.
John Saunders: That's kind of all. Yeah. Um. but now I'm... I'm so much more confident in this that now one of my IMTS things is going to be to actually do spend more time figuring out how I don't know how bar feeders work. And what I mean is like.
John Saunders: with how do I want to handle the IO. and is the bar feeder subservient to the machine what's pushing what's pulling spindle gripper bar feeder bar There's a difference between a bar. support feeder and a bar feeder feeder that has like
johngrimsmo: Right.
John Saunders: hydra hy hydrodynamic stabilizer.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: hydrostatic stabilization.
johngrimsmo: There's basically all options you could think of out there in the world.
John Saunders: Mm hmm.
johngrimsmo: But traditionally, like a Swiss operates different than maybe a Nakamura bar feeder would. and Depends. so You can do anything. but what do you want to do and how simple can you make it is the real question
John Saunders: Yeah. Um
johngrimsmo: So to advance the bar. I mean, I've seen some people put a pneumatic cylinder on the end that just like. ungrips pushes up to a hard stop and then grips or you could use the spindle gripper to pull it but now you're pulling a four foot bar or dragging Like all these things, right?
John Saunders: yeah the bar will be The bar can be supported temporarily in V -blocks with rollers. That way it's lower friction.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: Um, But. Um, I'm very, I'm very. aggressive about not worrying about things like that because they will be solved.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: If I can do this with a three foot stick, yeah, we're wasting a lot of material for each. stick. I don't care. Like this is. The future will be kind to us here.
johngrimsmo: Well, your your remnant is. whatever the collet depth is, like an inch. Like, you can have a very small remnant, I think.
John Saunders: I think so.
johngrimsmo: It depends on whatever you're making.
John Saunders: the
johngrimsmo: but
John Saunders: Yeah. look we could go on forever because then it's like well can you have the spindle grip or handle the remnant and then how are you handling that variability variables and how are you handling it when you reset if you if you need to do something in the middle of a bar and you don't know how much is there's a lot of quirky
johngrimsmo: Mm -hmm.
John Saunders: things about that. um
johngrimsmo: That's a good point. yeah
John Saunders: I'm...
johngrimsmo: If you have a pusher, you could measure the length of the pusher.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: the The focus front and center has been realizing, I think that the brother. is We are lucky that the brother appears to be more IO friendly than I realized. um We bought them for other reasons, but it looks like they have a grant is.
johngrimsmo: mm -hmm
John Saunders: way more knowledgeable and frankly, you and some of the other guys. in the chat probably are but like looks like we have 8 or 16 I -O channels available.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, it's an open book. yeah
John Saunders: with M codes, which means I think you could even multiplex it so like If for some reason you wanted to, you could have all those IOs going to a Raspberry Pi or similar, and then do it like binary where you could have.
John Saunders: effectively five million so like if if channels one and six are on that that's this scenario so my ability to control. separate and different pneumatic devices, bar feeders, metrology equipment is now Pretty awesome.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: Right. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: So. Like when CJ did his barfed mill he used the R series, which is a fixed table traveling head or whatever you called it
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: and you're doing it on a... regular VMC.
John Saunders: Yes.
johngrimsmo: So your Y table is moving, which means your fourth axis is moving front to back. to the operator
John Saunders: as is the X.
johngrimsmo: as is the X.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: So... as is your bar and as is your bar support.
John Saunders: correct
johngrimsmo: Interesting.
John Saunders: which is terrible.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, but you're like I'll solve it.
John Saunders: No, we won't solve it. We'll buy an arm.
johngrimsmo: Interesting.
John Saunders: um
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: the The thought was, if we can make these with, we can do a six foot bar.
johngrimsmo: Got it.
John Saunders: we actually have we've designed to hold a six foot bar with supports on a sliding surface that we the bar support. frame size with the table.
johngrimsmo: ah Just a big...
John Saunders: um
johngrimsmo: big tabletop of delrin and let the bar do whatever it wants
John Saunders: Kind of, yeah.
johngrimsmo: It's actually not terrible, but then you need ah basically ah an open door or a slot. for this bar to go. left, right, front, back. inside of the machine.
John Saunders: Correct. Keep in mind these these are parts that are the size of your middle finger. No. Bar is...
johngrimsmo: Not a lot of movement, yeah.
John Saunders: the y movement is one inch the x movement is two to three inches or something like it's not a lot
johngrimsmo: is the it So basically at the cost of Cutting a hole in one. Door. which is not a big deal and then eventually bang an R.
johngrimsmo: You're like. prototyping on the
John Saunders: for time on the ice.
johngrimsmo: on an S700.
John Saunders: which can easily be repurposed. We we will want another aluminum fixture plate machine.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: and Ours... i'm not i've not owned one or even used one but they stink Everything's dark side of the moon because you don't have an operator operator control that's normal to your spindle so um Basically.
John Saunders: buy one of those and just copy paste that's the the thing over there.
johngrimsmo: cool
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Mm hmm.
johngrimsmo: Very exciting.
John Saunders: Okay, thank you.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: That is awesome.
John Saunders: It's like... The... spindle gripping stuff and then like different pneumatics, vacuums, venturis. uh flexures fixtures to unload parts automating vices like we're Like the gears have been, pun intended, the gears have been turning.
johngrimsmo: that's so cool
John Saunders: Mm hmm.
johngrimsmo: Good, man. I'm happy for you. It's nice to see excitement and new and innovation and and just life.
John Saunders: Thank you. Got it.
johngrimsmo: you know
John Saunders: Thank you.
johngrimsmo: That's awesome. So my deep dive on that lately has been. building out our ERP system, GURP. I've been spending more and more hours on that.
John Saunders: Uh huh.
johngrimsmo: I finally imported our buyer's choice ordering system. into GURP. I spent the past two weeks doing that Huge import.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: And like I made it. a million times better than it. was before, which we had a programmer create. the previous one, so I had a lot of i had a good starting place for sure. And. you know, as as easy as vibe coding.
johngrimsmo: is and sounds they're still like to make it do what you really want to do And you know me, I'm like... Fine tune. to the nines kind of thing it still takes. dozens and dozens and dozens, hundreds of hours to like do what I really want to do.
johngrimsmo: um but it's to the point i just gave a demo to two of the guys on my team of like this is the buyer's choice start to finish like Pull your name as a customer. Here's the emails you get. Here's the... what the configurator looks like here's all the status updates you get and all that stuff it's awesome like we have a progress tracker now so the customer can view the progress at As the order moves through the shop and gets scanned by manufacturing, finishing, studio, et cetera, the customer will optionally opt in to get an email.
John Saunders: No way. No way.
John Saunders: That's awesome.
johngrimsmo: update and then they can go to their progress tracker and they can see all the dots light up with little Description under each one and it's live track to the status of the order in the shop right now And.
John Saunders: Dude.
johngrimsmo: Now that I have everything under one roof and I have Shopify API access. So I know when a product is sold.
John Saunders: Mhm.
johngrimsmo: I know what date I know. who the customer was. I know all that stuff. And I know if people have clicked on an email that we've sent them, I know all this stuff like within GURP.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And I know when emails bounce, when people sign up with a wrong. like when they mistyped the email.
John Saunders: Got it.
johngrimsmo: to when they sign up to our list to like all these cool things that just lets me put it under one roof and um Really? build a powerful system that does exactly what. we want.
johngrimsmo: And then I show it to the team. I think it's perfect. I show it to the team and they tell me like 15 things that they would want different.
John Saunders: yeah
johngrimsmo: And I'm like, yep, no problem.
John Saunders: Good care.
johngrimsmo: That's what I need. I need that feedback. I missed that. I didn't think about that. That's great. I'm showing it to my kids. and you know The default pictures on the configurator are like silver Norseman, silver blade, silver screws, thinking it's a blank canvas.
johngrimsmo: It's like, oh. And then you can click on all the options and make the colors and patterns and stuff. I showed it to Leif and he goes. Why do you have the boring ones shown? Show the pretty ones first.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And I'm like, It's a great perspective.
John Saunders: Totally.
johngrimsmo: like you know here you're thinking blank canvas is the best way and Maybe just show the flash first.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: I don't know. So I've been having a lot of fun with that a lot of late nights
John Saunders: That's awesome.
johngrimsmo: and um Really enjoying that process and it's like coming to a close right now. I think I kind of hope actually my time spent on GURP is dwindling because I can move on to like...
John Saunders: Yeah, surerk sure, sure.
johngrimsmo: get my hands dirty kind of projects but boy has it been fun.
John Saunders: It'll never be done, John. and
johngrimsmo: I agree. Yep.
John Saunders: if I can can offer a suggestion, it's like leave it leave it in a spot that has a thing you want to do that's a good picking up point. in a month and go do something else for a month it's at the grimson eyes
johngrimsmo: Yeah, yeah
johngrimsmo: Totally.
John Saunders: Can I ask you a quick question? i know whatever Do you run out of daily tokens or do you end up paying more?
johngrimsmo: I actually did last week. Because I...
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: kind of got stuck using the um the highest model like the newest most expensive one because it worked for a little bit and i just accidentally left it on there and i blew through all the tokens and like another 80 worth of add -on tokens quickly and i was like
John Saunders: Yes, sir.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: oh, oops, I guess I didn't need the most advanced model for all that asking I just did.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: So that was the first time. Before that, I've been on like 30 bucks a month.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: on cursor for for all year.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: Um, So most people. using ah the default model. won't go over.
John Saunders: Yeah. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Like I've done. a lot of work. without going over And yeah, so it's something I'm watching now. um upgraded to the 60 account just to like So it's cheaper than going over.
John Saunders: Yeah, sure. sure
johngrimsmo: Um, And maybe I'll... Cut back. in a couple of months, but... It's good. it's very I'm very happy with how it is.
John Saunders: Happy birthday.
johngrimsmo: Thank you very much.
John Saunders: Go go get soaking wet with your kids and and enjoy the. False.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Yeah, we will all right, man
John Saunders: Good. I'll see you next week.
johngrimsmo: Stay you next week. All right, bye.
