Transcript
Speaker: Hi, welcome to the podcast Women Changing Finance, where you will discover amazing women from all around the world who are making finance become a force for good.
Speaker: Welcome to the podcast Women Changing Finance. I'm Christina Tora and I'm welcoming today Veronica Colondam, founder and CEO of the YCAP Foundation, which is the founding and flagship organization of the YCAP Social Enterprise Group, established in 1999 with a mission to break the cycle of generational poverty through financial inclusion.
Speaker: To date, YCAP has reached over 5 million low-income youth and women And I'm really happy to have Veronica on the show today. I met Veronica a few years ago, and I was really impressed by her accomplishments to support low-income young people and women entrepreneurs.
Speaker: Welcome, Veronica. Well, thank you, Christina, for having me. Thank you for joining. So as we begin, it would be really great for the audience to get a sense of the ecosystem in Indonesia.
Speaker: If you could paint us a picture of impact trends in your ecosystem, maybe be specificities about the impact ecosystem. Thank you for that. And I'm actually very grateful to be part of your women ecosystem, women who change finance around the world.
Speaker: And yes, you are right, correct. We had a backdoor conversation before that when women are empowered, the entire family is empowered. And that's just true in all countries. So...
Speaker: you know Kudos to you for having this podcast that will... Women creating impact but inspiring other women. It's not limited to other women. Everybody else to create impact. So...
Speaker: Let's come it respond to your question about impact space in Indonesia because we're specifically in Indonesia in the last 27 years. Wow.
Speaker: And ah we have done quite a bit. I mean, as an introduction, more than 5 million has you know ah received the impact, formal I mean, direct and indirectly.
Speaker: But we have the specific a mission to empower the low income, the bottom of the pyramid, which we don't even use the word micro because this is ultra micro.
Speaker: Women who would give ah you know access to capital to help their businesses in this well in dollar is very small, like $200. And this is the kind of a group lending. So this is a Muhammad Yunus type of approach, but with a little condition that they have to keep their kids in school throughout their duration of borrowing money.
Speaker: And then for those families, Women with good performing kids in school, we would give them opportunity for scholarship to go to university.
Speaker: The thesis, this is our YCAP thesis, is when women empowered, mother empowered, kids educated, they put the to the higher degree, they can help the welfare community.
Speaker: of the family. So we track them moving from $2, $3 per capita income towards $8 and $10 per capita income, which is already at the range of aspiring middle class by world Bank standard.
Speaker: So that's that's the landscape, ah the the ecosystem that we work with. So we kind of integrate the empowerment of economy, the moms, to do business, to keep their kids in school, and to have the opportunity to give the top performers to go to higher education so that they, in our calculation, if they receive a minimum wage, the Indonesian minimum wage, they will leap out of ah poverty together with the mom.
Speaker: So that's the theory of change. But I think the landscape of ah impact in Indonesia, I think overall, It's been quite journey because that this word social enterprise, we have to even educate our government.
Speaker: And then in the last 10 years, Christina, it's a long time, not 10, maybe I ran it out to 10, but it's maybe eight years of getting the government to understand what social enterprise is. And we were quite succeeding by talking to the Ministry of Law to create a social enterprise as an entity.
Speaker: In Indonesia, there's only two entities, foundation, which is non-profit, and for-profit as a ah limited entity. PT, we call it PT, P and T. But now we're creating something in the middle, PTS, is a limited but social.
Speaker: And since November last year, since the presidential decree gave us this, I think, the not only the law, but it gives us the weight towards this social enterprise, we have almost 500 people companies came forward and ah voluntarily, they admit themselves as a social enterprise, which is exciting.
Speaker: So this is the Indonesian landscape. But at this point, the next journey for us is to help the policy to understand that once they are given the status of becoming a limited but social limited company, there should be there should be a tax, sort of like maybe special tariff or leniency so do not be treated as a normal corporation or corporation tax yeah operation packs so that's the next journey then we start talking now to the government with that authority to introduce the concept and why it matters so it's important that the whole ecosystem understand and of course the government understand the journey to promote
Speaker: to promote impact and by empowering all these social enterprises. So we also give them the second thing, not only that, we give them GRC. This is governance, risk, and audit training so that we can help increase their capacity as organization because if they have the right governance and a good management and audit and all that, it's easier for them to access capital.
Speaker: Because at the end of the day, you can't do anything without money. So that's what we try to do. empower their Empower them, capacity building, to help them ready for capital, ready for the market.
Speaker: So that's the bigger picture. But the first part of um my response to you, it was just wide-cap way to create impact through ah financial empowerment.
Speaker: Amazing. You touched on many different aspects. And also, this is a big win to have this policy kind of change. It's big, big shift. Yes. Yes.
Speaker: It's a long road. It's a long road, policy change. But you somebody has to do the the work and be patient about it because otherwise, what point we talk about all this social impact without a support from a clear law and policy?
Speaker: It's very important. So I just want to go back in history. You founded YCAP quite a long time ago. So tell us about what made you create YCAP.
Speaker: What were you seeing in Indonesia that made you feel that you needed this change? And so how has YCAP evolved as well? So maybe the history and then where are you today? Oh, wow. Okay. Wow.
Speaker: Okay, the why. The why is is very important because that would explain the existence, right? Why YCAP has been around 27 years and I'm still and on fire talking about impact and taking YCAP to the next level.
Speaker: So you did say the right word because for me, since YCAP's 25th anniversary, which is two years ago, I kind of divide my mind into the first 25 and the next 25. The question is, what are we going to do in the next 25, right? So can I respond to why later and explain this first? Okay.
Speaker: So the first 25, I feel that we have evolved from local community-based type of foundation, which is Maybe it's just the answer to my own personal struggle and calling to want to make a difference. Oh, this is the why, by the way.
Speaker: As a young mother, at that point of time of my first two kids, they were only four and two years old and started to think that, hey, well, we are blessed.
Speaker: Our kids are blessed with a certain privilege that you don't have to worry about going to school or what to eat today, at least. But then i look at the window outside and I see a lot of Indonesians are still struggling.
Speaker: We are a population today of 280 million. We're probably number three largest country or fourth largest country in the world. But the first 40 million is actually those who are what we categorize as an unproductive for, meaning they do something. They're probably usually farmers and all that, but they they cannot receive loan because they don't have collateral. They don't have business, right?
Speaker: So that belongs to the government, sort of like maybe and what we call bansos, like the government support. So the next 40 are the productive core.
Speaker: This is the target of the ultra micro and our micro financing because these people, the demographic, they can have business. They usually have some kind of business to add to their house economy to make some money, more money.
Speaker: So this is where... that I think the main market, the main market for our intervention. And then we followed by the next 40 million people, which is not in the middle class yet, but they are better than this ultra micro. So they're probably in the micro level. So we have 120 million of people within this network. So I see that a lot of other people ah actually needs to be empowered. So that's the calling comes in and then wanting to do something and to maybe make sense of my presence as part of this born in Indonesia and have kids. Then I think that motherhood instinct is also wanting to be kind of a mother and adopt those who are actually...
Speaker: not able to put themselves into education and so forth. So that's pretty much the calling. It's pretty much personal. The calling for me as as born and raised as Christian is probably the verticality of how God loves me and I love the world.
Speaker: And this is how I love the world kind of thing. YCAP and all the programs that we do is how we love our neighbor. This is what I understand it. So That's that.
Speaker: And we talk about a little bit on the the evolution of the next. What's the next 25 look like? So the first one is the, I don't use the word error, but it's a trial and learning. where We don't do any errors.
Speaker: There are errors, of course, but not perfect. But saying it, Trial and error is just so negative. So in our group, we're always using the word learning. So we trial, we do trial out, and then we learn from it. We try and we learn. So 25 years is a long time for this evolution, but it is what it is. Here we are at the 25th year when we kind of finally...
Speaker: completes our theory of change with issuing. We issue a mutual fund. Mutual fund is like savings, right? It is investment slash savings with an asset manager that become our partner. And we issue the mutual fund for impact.
Speaker: This is where we enable our ecosystem, the mothers that we support financially with financing, and their kids who gone to university and start working, they can participate by buying this mutual fund, which is we make it very, the unit is only $7, $7. You can actually,
Speaker: you can actually be part of this program or product. And this completes the entire ecosystem. But of course, our biggest market would be the people in general, investors in general, the capital market investors.
Speaker: But we're by having this product, we are actually introducing... right? The investing with impact, you know, that is giving investors a financial gain, but at the same time, there's a social gain that's packaged in this product. So we are very happy with that. So 25th, that's on our 25th anniversary, we launched that.
Speaker: And this is 18 months later, we could see the traction from the market. It's quite okay by Indonesian standard. We raised about 112 billion asset under management that it in probably it's equal to like 7, 8 million.
Speaker: And we want to grow in the next two years to like $20-30 million. dollars And with that, it's quite a good example that this kind of financial product that is issued by an asset manager available in the capital market, accessible by everybody.
Speaker: With the very unit, the very small unit of $6 $7, anybody can participate to create change.
Speaker: Isn't that amazing? So I think the next 25 would be, i think the calling now, is to tap into the potential of capital, moving capital from the capital market of Indonesia by creating all these financial products, impact products, financial impact, investing product, maybe using the the normal, whatever products that is out there in the market. Mutual fund is one.
Speaker: Bonds is two. We also have a different things in mind, but maybe it's too technical, but nevermind. So that's what's available. So the next 25 would be to try...
Speaker: more of creating an inclusive financial product that works for investors and works for the people who actually want to participate to create change, but not ready to give their money.
Speaker: Because... investing, they keep the principle, they have financial gain, but at the same time, they feel that they're doing good for the society. So we are very bullish, very bullish about this opportunity going forward. And I think this is what my, if I could say the second calling, but then this is where I think YCAP will take a bigger role in moving capital from the capital market of Indonesia to do social good. So the first 25 is our evolution to kind of find the focus, fine tuning what we are good, where we are good in terms of delivering program, grant making and all of that. But the second phase is
Speaker: helping other organizations maybe to tap into this potential capital to create a change. So that's pretty much how I defined my experience, I think, you know, today. So I hope it's not confusing. I hope this is ah not too much. his go It's fantastic. I just want to to have a clarifying question on the mutual fund.
Speaker: You say that people can buy for a even as small as six, $7. Yes. yes How many people have already contributed in that way?
Speaker: That's actually a very good question. i think the average of, I don't know, when you say average is a bit high because at this point, the more the high net worth subscribing to that for 112 billion asset under management, maybe around 200, 200, 300 investors. Okay.
Speaker: very interesting So that's still quite high, although we do have maybe a dozen of investors of the mothers. So we we're trying to blend in the financing, the microfinancing with investment.
Speaker: So we tried out in a dozen of women who's also now buying the unit, the very small unit, the smallest unit, which is 100,000 rupiah, which the $7. into this too. So we want to be inclusive. And we also include our scholars, those who already graduated in the university, they already work, they have money, their own salary.
Speaker: So they also participate in this investment. So we have way down there and we do have the high net worth. And of course, funds like this is a public fund.
Speaker: So it should be accessed by the high net worth because this is where we can actually... really grow, right? where We want to grow to $300 billion and $500 billion Indonesian dollar. That is probably, yeah, $30, about $30, $40 million. dollars But with that, we'll be the largest fund, actually,
Speaker: is created, at least up to now, that is specifically for impact. I really like that, in a way, democratizing impact investment. That's the word, that's the word, democratizing investment by creating a unit that is affordable. Exactly. yeah And that you you also have the women that you're working with who potentially invest in this.
Speaker: So on the other hand side, so we talk about who is investing in this mutual fund. Now let's talk about who it is supporting and how. I would love to hear more about actually the work that you do with YCAP.
Speaker: How do you support the women? What does the day-to-day look like? Yeah, I did mention the just quickly, briefly in the beginning that this is a microfinance, the Muhammad Yunus type, which is group loan,
Speaker: accessible by a group of 10, a maximum 15, maybe some groups would be 20 women, mothers who actually have their own business. So in our case, we only support those who have at least six month business. So we don't,
Speaker: fund the newcomer to the business because we want this is part of our de-risking the whole operation right so at least six months they already have business and we come to support by giving them 200 type of financing yeah and they can install yeah within i think five months so that's How many weeks in five months? 7, 35, 40, 40 weeks, up to 50 weeks.
Speaker: So it's a two cycles per year. So out of those, 100% women only as the borrowers. And I think we see a consistent data that more than 50%, 60% actually sell food, food vendors.
Speaker: And the other 40 would be from services like laundry service. They have other services now selling online. That's becoming quite popular, which is good because now they're selling direct to the market. So we give the digital marketing skills.
Speaker: for those who actually starting to sell their products online. And we can see the demographic. They're usually younger, younger moms, maybe 35, 45, who are more savvy in technology, yeah, who can actually do that. So the demographic of our client, they are all in the urban area, so we don't touch the rural women.
Speaker: only urban. So urban, big cities in Jakarta, greater area. i mean, the UN just declared Jakarta being the largest city in the world, number one, with 42 million people that's in the greater area.
Speaker: That's where we are, 42 million population. And we are in the central Java. I don't know, the central Java population probably bigger, maybe 70 million there.
Speaker: right And we are moving towards the east, to the east of Java and then Bali. This is Bali because it's just family holding of Bali United.
Speaker: We talked a little bit about the soccer team. So we want to also, in a way, bless Bali. with the empowerment of a woman there. So we're going to move east, but we're going to concentrate in Java and Bali, I think, for the next two, three years because we want to grow the market there.
Speaker: But I think the the condition of those mothers to be our client is interesting. It's their kids they have the kids. They have to keep their kids in school.
Speaker: Their kids... cannot drop out of school. If they drop out, we give them a grace period, one year, to bring them back to school or to access any skills or they can come to our centers. This is the foundation running the education part.
Speaker: So that's what we integrate because we believe when the mother's economically empowered, the kids have to go to education and to gain jobs. At the end of the day, they don't have to go to university to get jobs. If they get skills and have jobs, income, or they become business partner, business owners, co-owning business with the mom, it's okay too. We've seen that happening.
Speaker: So we want them both to be ah steady. in terms of economic. So that will break, lead them out of the poverty. So that's just the model.
Speaker: So we start from our 17th anniversary, we started to pull together the stories of mother and child Teamwork is a family intervention with economic empowerment as the heart of it that work together over years.
Speaker: And we see, you know, how much they grow, the business grow, the kids not only thrive in school, but they thrive in their jobs. And some of the moms don't even have to work anymore. Isn't that great?
Speaker: The mom's now taking care of the grandchildren and then the kids have steady jobs, they get married and all that. So we do that longitudinal tracking.
Speaker: So we have 17, in our anniversary of 17, we issue book. We publish a book, 17 stories, 20 stories in our 20th. And on our 25th, we have 25 stories, which is a pair, mom and daughter or son.
Speaker: So that's just our intervention that I think important to combine, to integrate the economic empowerment and education.
Speaker: Yeah. That's really wonderful. i don't know. Do you have one or two stories that really touch you among the success stories? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. The story about Raka, Raka was actually one of the, our scholar. So he's one of the son of our clients.
Speaker: So the mom has been our clients for 10 years. By the time Raka eligible for the university, when he came to age to go to university, so he's one of the top students. So we fund the education, finish education,
Speaker: education and then finish college, university, get his degree. And because he's so good, we couldn't resist to him ourselves. So he's now part of the impact investing team.
Speaker: And then his mom just stop selling and then move to the, just an outer part of Jakarta, which is Bogor. Bogor is a smaller city, an hour from Jakarta.
Speaker: Yeah. She doesn't need to work anymore because the the sun is, funding her life now, which is great. Everybody's happy.
Speaker: Then we have so many stories like that because when moms empower, the kids go to higher education, get jobs, they would naturally want their moms to just not work anymore and just take care of the family.
Speaker: So that's, I think, a success story, which is to me, very inspiring. But some mothers, even though their kids go to school, finish university and have their own life, moms still want to, I think, expand business. So we know some mothers start with as a food vendor or selling food in the streets.
Speaker: But then they scale. They have a few branches off from selling to like, like ah we call it warung. It's not like a restaurant, but a small, maybe hawkers, like a hawkers food stall.
Speaker: And then they have few, what is that, branches or a few locations. They hire their own family to take care of the branches. And then some would keep the business, out the food business. They will move on to a different business. And we've seen providing, I think this is like accommodation, but this is like, we call it cost, like kos-kosan. That's a...
Speaker: That's an Indonesian word for the business, but it's pretty much like creating maybe a space that they have and divide into small rooms and rent it out and they make money. I mean, that's like a different kind of business. it's In our words, it's property management, but for them, it's just branching out from food to... Some some actually support their husband's business.
Speaker: And then they scale from there, the anything, fenders in the street. And all the success has the story of their kids managing to be self-sufficient, to be independent financially.
Speaker: And they work together to bring the family, not only out of ah poverty, but to flourish. Because we it's a homework, but 60%, 70% of our clients are old clients who actually been with the organization for like 10 years, been borrowing. So we we scale. the We start with $200, but some, they already get $2,000, right? So if they can be good client, meaning they have quality loan, meaning that they...
Speaker: install everything in time on time no npls then we will scale the borrowing right we scale it from 200 to 3 000 so for them a lot so for us what the story that we see that they actually in terms of income they grow The business grow, the income grow, and they can steady their business. So that's important.
Speaker: Yeah, we see that time and time again. That's great because it shows you know that the model works. I also want to reflect on your own model as an organization. First of all, congratulations, because it's quite rare to have organizations doing this kind of work that are steady in time. You have celebrated 27 years, so congratulations.
Speaker: Thank you. What is your sustainability model? How you create sustainability for your own organization? The question I'm asking is also because if you are, say, a changemaker in another nonprofit organization or they thinking about the sustainability of your own organization, what advice maybe you can give Yeah, I think sustainability in this sense, in in this conversation, and in my understanding, is financial sustainability.
Speaker: Just clear it out because there's a YCAP Foundation, there's a YCAP Ventures. This is all only licensing entities, but over time we have to ah Keep both because the empowerment of economy only can be done by these ventures. It's an entity under the Indonesian SEC, the Security SEC.
Speaker: so And the foundation is doing the education component. okay So we've been like that for a longest time, for 20 years maybe. But then the last five years or even more now, maybe the last seven years, we put it vertical. So the foundation owns the ventures.
Speaker: And ventures invest in all the portfolios. Oh, we haven't even talked about this impact investing. But we do have a woman fund, which is a partnership with DFAT.
Speaker: That was a trial $2 million dollars type of investment that we want to support woman-led, woman-service businesses. That is done under the YCAP Ventures. So YCAP Foundation has nothing to do with it.
Speaker: But the idea is this is sustainability. YCAP Foundation owns YCAP Ventures underneath and YCAP Ventures owns all the portfolios company. So any dividends, any, ah what's the word?
Speaker: Profit that is made in the YCAP Ventures will go up to the YCAP Foundation to support right the work that we do in the YCAP Foundation. So that's number one, sustainability source.
Speaker: Number two, of course, YCAP Foundation itself, as a foundation, we work partnership with multinationals, corporations, in terms of CSR as their implementer of their programs.
Speaker: But of course, programs that falls within the mission of YCAP, the Women Empowerment, again, and Education. So we work with CSR. So this is a grant base, usually.
Speaker: And on the grant space, we also work with organizations like, yeah, including our friends and Temasek, UNDP, and City Foundation, other foundations in the world.
Speaker: So that's The third now, sustainability. And number four is actually through the mutual funds because from the asset total asset under management, a minimum of 1%, a maximum of 5% will be given to YCAP as a donation.
Speaker: to run the program, the Economic Empowerment and Education, from the based on the performance of the fund. So last year, the performance was very good at 30 plus percent ah return, financial return.
Speaker: So we get the 5%. This is the full But when the performance is lower, like say under 10% or under 15%, then the contribution, the donation will come down to 3%, 3 out of the total AUM, total asset under management.
Speaker: So that's, is it the fourth now, the fifth? And the next one is actually we started to create our own endowment fund, which is, this is the most classic, classic Western type.
Speaker: We only, I think, started to do this in the last probably five years. So we set up, also an entity outside of Indonesia, which is based out of Singapore, we call it YCAP Asia, as that endowment fund type of operator.
Speaker: So we have that. But if you're asking how or other organizations, you don't have to follow everything. You can just pick what works for you because not all organizations in Indonesia or elsewhere can actually or must set up an entity outside of Indonesia. That's another story why we did that.
Speaker: so But it's all because of the limited regulation, that we have in Indonesia at that point of time when we set it up because it Indonesia is one of the country in the world which is very unique. Giving gift, donation to organization is not tax deduction.
Speaker: It's not tax deductible, but it's actually profit deductible. So you can only take it from your EBITDA. So you cannot claim tax deduction from your donation. So Indonesia, you just have, we are unique that way. So we kind of need to be smart in how to create that sustainability.
Speaker: So the endowment fund, we thought the Singapore entity will help kind of keep it as a keeper of that. But then during COVID, the regulation in Indonesia changed.
Speaker: So there's such a thing as a, we call it Dana Abadi or revolving fund, a mechanism that you can actually in your financial report, you can put that under asset instead of surplus.
Speaker: Because in Indonesia, again, even though we are non-profit, we have to pay tax upon our surplus, like corporate tax. But in the case of YCAP, oh my, this is complicated.
Speaker: Because we are so education foundation. So foundation in Indonesia has a particular Permits. So the permits, a social foundation, they pay, it was before, yeah, before COVID, you pay corporate tax upon your surplus. That's why everybody has to finish their profit. That's why we call non-profit.
Speaker: ah But under our license, which is we are education foundation, we can, the surplus, we can spend it over five years. And then at the end of five years, if there is still surplus, then we pay tax.
Speaker: on that So it's a smaller text, right? It's almost nothing. But there wasn't any regulation about the Dana Abadi or the yeah endowment. We don't even have that word in Indonesia.
Speaker: So because of that change, now we can actually do, we can keep the endowment in our own organization in Indonesia. And we put that under our assets.
Speaker: I'm glad I asked. I think it's a beautiful model. It's really fantastic that you describe it so well. Maybe one final question about, okay, so you have worked now on so many different aspects. You have been operating in the Indonesian ecosystem.
Speaker: From your perspective, what is needed today in Indonesia for Indonesia to succeed with having We have to go back to law and policy. Unfortunately, law and policy, and we have to keep educating and keep exposing the idea of social enterprise and all this impact investing to our regulators.
Speaker: That's what we need to do. Now that we have the Minister of Law accepting or the limited social, the PT social, the PTS,
Speaker: Now that it's already there, now this can be the starting point to maybe, what's the word? Advocating, right? Advocating the regulators. This is a financial authority like the OJK, which is the SEC of Indonesia, and also the IDX, which is the yeah capital market Indonesia.
Speaker: And of course, the other regulator is the central bank. So using this... experience We need to bring them to the understanding. And that's another policy. It's a long road.
Speaker: But I think when this group, the social enterprise, the PTS, can get a certain fiscal, maybe discount or tax discount, ah tariffs or special tariffs,
Speaker: then that would be a great story because now it's important, right? For people who are doing social impact to get that kind of recognition. So this is another long road, but this is important.
Speaker: But we've done phase one. So we're moving into phase two and a policy, overall policy. But I think the second thing that is needed That's why I think the my calling for the next 25 of YCAP would be to democratizing this impact investing not only be accessible to organizations like YCAP, but other smaller organizations. That's why...
Speaker: We don't want to say that we want to become the mothership, but we want to inspire. I hope all these organizations can also issue their own mutual fund and benefit from it.
Speaker: But if they cannot, then we can create a mutual fund together so that they can access this. It's just more complicated because it's not for me to say yes or no. It's for the regulator to say yes or no. At this point, for them to see one asset manager working with one organization, simple enough.
Speaker: But if one asset manager working with 50 organizations, oh my goodness, the due diligence is going to be difficult, right? So we'll see. Maybe not 50. Let's start with 5 or 10. I don't know. But I'm looking at creating an example. If we...
Speaker: hit the first milestone of 300 billion IDR, which is, what is that, in the US dollar, probably 20 million, then we can have a say that this has potential.
Speaker: The market, the investors of Indonesia longing to invest, right? And then then we can create another vehicle for all these other organizations to tap into, right?
Speaker: At the end of the day is access to capital, right? To create impact. So that's YCAP's journey. But I want to tell you something else, which is the other hat that I'm wearing ums has been eight years in the commissioner board. That's a supervisory board of now, today is the largest microfinance in the world.
Speaker: It's called PNM. That's PNM as a limited company, but it's a subsidiary of one of our biggest banks, which is BRI. Okay. It's not important, but what is important, PNM issued orange bond, a billion dollar orange bond.
Speaker: And it was oversubscribed 11 times. So, Christina, this is the time where I feel very important. It comes to this point where I think big organizations, financial institutions, they're looking to put colors into their investment pie.
Speaker: They want blue bonds. They want green bonds. They want orange bonds. 11 times oversubscribed. That means we issue a billion dollar, the request to buy, 11 billion dollars. This is billion dollars.
Speaker: And this is real request. So we have to allocate this allocation. the bonds to the, of course, the most, I think, the first tier, second tier of investors. So that's meaning that we have to be selective who we want to allow to buy. Maybe I don't know what's the better word to say that.
Speaker: But this P&M, the largest, ah We, our number of clients is 15 million, all women, clients, borrowers, borrowers, not just clients, borrowers with almost 4 billion or now maybe, yeah, 4 billions in outstanding, that's US dollars.
Speaker: So 15 million, 4 billion outstanding, all borrowers, women. And you know, guess what? The interesting part, I just learned about it on the panel, I think in AVP and Hong Kong, that I learned in other countries, these women borrowers are not serviced by women, young women. In Indonesia, 100%, 60,000 of our account officers that serve these ladies, these women, are all young girls.
Speaker: So girls serving women, women serving women. Apparently in Bangladesh and India, their account officers are males, majority males or even 50-50.
Speaker: And for us, whoa, we were intentional to actually pick women account officers to serve the 50-15 million five.
Speaker: million one five woman borrower. So isn't that amazing? Indonesia is very, I think, ah unique this way. yes The biggest issuer of Orange One is Indonesia. That just happened in November. And maybe also it gives a reason why this is one of the largest microfinance in the world.
Speaker: It is. It is indeed. Yeah. And just for the audience who doesn't necessarily know bronze, blue bronze are for ocean, green are for climate, and orange. yeah Orange for women. Yeah. Women empowerment. Correct. Yes. So we are also unique that way because PNM issue with themselves.
Speaker: to use all the $1 billion dollar for our their business. Some other organizations, they would issue bonds, but then they give it to, they channel it to other financial institutions to do the job, right?
Speaker: The multiple recipients of these bonds. But in the case of Indonesia, we issue the bonds, we 100% use the money for the in to invest in all these women.
Speaker: Yeah. Great. Thank you so much. I have so many other questions actually for you, which are perhaps a little bit more personal. This is the opportunity to celebrate. This podcast is an opportunity to celebrate. You have been doing so many different things, so much work.
Speaker: What maybe can you reflect on one aspect of your work that you are most proud of? wow. Yeah. I think the aspect is always impact when you see the change, the transformation in one family.
Speaker: That's just, I know this word is a bit negative, but it's addictive. It's addicting because you see the transformation. And I know it gives you that that feeling that, hey, I've done something right.
Speaker: I've done something good. You may not see that YCAP addressing the poverty of 100 million of Indonesia or the 40 million of Indonesia, but, you know, family by family, when you see that transformation, that keeps you going.
Speaker: Thank you. That's beautiful. And this is a question I ask all of my guests. How does it feel to be a woman doing this job? Oh, wow.
Speaker: Well, empowered, really empowered. And I think honored because we are created, right? but but To help, to help.
Speaker: I mean, I believe in Eve created to help Adam as not as to work under him, but as an equal partner. So we're actually helping the world. We're helping the equality, right? Because I know, I understand in many countries, women are still not equal, but having women to take this forward and to really create change, I hope inspire other women too, to in their limitation, maybe in their countries, but there's always an opportunity to help others. So I think it's powerful.
Speaker: It's powerful. It's empowering. That's why I use the word, it empowers me because It's just an honorable opportunity to do this in my life. So, and I've been doing it 27 years. It's a long time. And to have this spirit, to have the consistency, that's also something I think is just by the grace of God.
Speaker: but Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that. And as we are approaching the end of this conversation, i have three quick questions for you. Okay. What is keeping you optimistic? Okay.
Speaker: Well, keeping optimistic. Well, we're impact creators, right? We're always optimistic in the most difficult time. And I think what keeps me going is to see...
Speaker: you know, the next gen. The next gen is important element of this journey because i will stop at some point. Everybody, you know, it's just the question is when.
Speaker: But I think we need to prepare the next gen to also have this heart and dedication and servicehood. to steward whatever they have, their capacity, their capabilities, and to the next generation. That's sustainability.
Speaker: So I think, yeah, we are at that point that maybe succession that keeps me going. Not particularly YCAP to be succeeded, but I think the next gen has to be inspired into the world of impact.
Speaker: And by by keep doing what I'm doing, I hope that will inspire them. Yeah. So speaking of inspiration, who or what is inspiring you? Well, at the beginning, at the beginning of WICA, I am always moved by the work of Mother Teresa.
Speaker: I actually ah went to India to make the journey to visit all her centers. This is after her passing. That's just the spirit of service, you know, to mankind that really touched my heart. And that's just the calling.
Speaker: ah Spiritually speaking, a vertical, this is the vertical calling. that keeps us going. But I think in Mother Teresa, it's really felt.
Speaker: And I really honor her for having the next gen, the next, what, a waves of... They're they from the... What is that? the A certain ah order?
Speaker: I don't even remember the order of their Catholic system. But they are successful that way. They have... continue and that becomes the legacy for Mother Teresa and I think that should also me at least I leave a mark when I die one day I leave a mark in this world at some point maybe not as big as Mother Teresa but at least I've done something you know right I love this thank you so much and are you reading anything that you would recommend to the audience oh reading oh gosh I am behind on my reading i keep
Speaker: I think going back and and read the book that inspired me. But yeah ah i yeah, maybe I don't have to write the good answer for that. But I've been reading like, I don't know if it's even possible, if it's even out there because this has the trailblazing.
Speaker: This is one of my mentors who passed during COVID, not because of COVID, he was just old. Kun Chai from the Doitung project, he initiated this development project in the hills of Doitung, where is the golden triangle. So I was just...
Speaker: reading his book following the visit to Doitung again just last week to take the whole team of YCAP to get that inspiration because they've been longstanding, way longer than us, maybe, I don't know, 30, 40 years.
Speaker: But they track impact and they successfully eradicate The mountains. So this is the golden triangle. So Thai, Laos, and Myanmar, the golden triangle, it was opium.
Speaker: It was opium poppies plantation. So they eradicated that, then changed that into coffee and macadamia. It's amazing what they did. They're one of the finest, I think, organizations. So Kun Chai, well, I consider him a mentor and my inspirator.
Speaker: He passed. So I've been reading the book about him. Yes. Thank you. And yeah, Doitung is a very successful social enterprise. Oh, you know, yes i' north yeah to play it's lovely.
Speaker: Yeah. Wonderful. Thank you so much. So as we conclude, do you have any final thoughts or advice for fellow changemakers or maybe a specific ask of listeners?
Speaker: Oh, wow. I guess... Being in a social enterprise, trying to please both worlds, you know, the finance and the impact is a more difficult world than just doing business, right?
Speaker: So I think there should be resilience. There should be a reservation, your mental reservation that this is not going to be easy. Hardship will be waiting.
Speaker: When you are succeeding in your finances, everybody asking you for impact. If you're succeeding in impact, everybody asks you for sustainability in finance. So it's difficult, but please don't give up.
Speaker: keep marching on. And when you concentrate on something that you really want to happen, the universe make it happen for you. So I believe in that power of, in Indonesia, there's a word, meakum you know, the whole semester, the whole universe will support when you start concentrating the power of mind.
Speaker: So yeah, don't give up. And I think resilience, consistency is, It's just the two qualities that you need to to help. And then that reservation, mental reservation that I'm going to keep moving. And if things got difficult, I'm not going to give up kind of thing.
Speaker: So that's some mental resilience that you have to prepare. i think that's important. Thank you. And I want to learn this word that you just said, mastakung. How do you... Mastakung.
Speaker: Mastakung. I can write it to you. Yes, please. Mestakung. Okay, this is an Indonesian word for I put a desk.
Speaker: So, mestakung, right? Semesta. Semesta is the universe. The word semesta, so mestak, semesta is kung is from the word mendukung, which is support.
Speaker: So, when you put your mind into that, the whole universe will support you. ah It's my yeah new favorite word. Thank you so much. Oh, lovely. ah Good. Mustaku, go for it. Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much, Veronika. It was such a wonderful conversation. I really enjoyed it. Thank you for your time today.
Speaker: Thank you, Christina, for the opportunity. And I hope your viewers, your listeners would learn something or two. from indonesia yes so for sure thank you for doing this really and i like your mission you want to support women inspire women and by having women to in your podcast so that's great thank you christina thank you
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