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Could Starfield Be Considered a 'Cozy Game'?
958 Plays2 months ago
Michael and Duane talk about putting together a science build, and some of our favorite Creation Club mods that have come out recently. We also discuss the topic of “Cozy Games” and whether of not Starfield qualifies as one.
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Transcript
Can Starfield be a cozy game?
00:00:00
Speaker
Could Starfield be considered a cozy game?
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome to Episode 47 of Starfield with Normal People. My name is Michael and I am here with Dwayne. Yes, you are, Michael. Welcome to 2025. Wow. Oh, that's incredible, isn't it? Yeah.
00:00:30
Speaker
We're now in the future. We're living the future. Just like playing
Space travel: Fantasy vs Reality
00:00:35
Speaker
Starfield. Yeah. Every day we get closer to a Starfield eventuality. Yep. Where warp drive is a reality and you're going to different planets and you think nothing of it.
00:00:46
Speaker
Wouldn't that be cool? I do want that. You know, it's interesting because my wife talks about how it's very scary, like the concept, and I don't disagree at all. Like the concept of going into space, at least in like currently, and like if you're an astronaut, that is a terrifying thing. These are brave men and women who go into the cold, vast reaches of space. She talks about like Michael wants to go into space. That's crazy. And I'm like, well, no.
00:01:15
Speaker
I don't want to go into space now the way things are. I want to go into space the way Starfield portrays it or any number of depictions in the future. like That's what I want. i don ah I don't want to go up with Jeff Bezos on his on his weird rocket. like That's not what I want to do.
00:01:35
Speaker
Yeah, keep me away from Jeff Bezos rocket, please.
AI integration: Ethical dilemmas and future speculations
00:01:40
Speaker
I think it is scary. Anything that we don't understand or know or are familiar with is frightening for right now. It's space travel and even in in Star Trek future.
00:01:51
Speaker
in the J.J. Abrams reboot, Bones, talks about, you know, don't even worry about that because, you know, this glass could crack and it'll, we'll get a solar flare and it'll fry our brains in a split second. I mean, there's a million things that can go wrong. But if you think about it, even our our great grandparents,
00:02:13
Speaker
if they if you were to pitch getting on an airplane and flying anywhere, cross country, or up 30,000 feet in the air. yeah it would be the scariest thing possible for them. Now, because as a child, and you got on ah a jet airplane, you don't really think that much about it. Certainly there are fears of flying, but there are fears with anything. There's anything where you're in a moving vehicle or yeah ah relying on someone else to control your fate is an inherent fear. So I do think yeah yeah humankind will get to a point where we're traveling, we're space faring, and we don't think anything about it.
00:02:51
Speaker
Yep, that's that's the future I want. And I probably won't live that long. And that's why we've got Starfield and and I appreciate that. So that's fine with me. Well, I have an interesting ah kind of segue to that. I was talking with my buddy and that would actually be you. We were talking about A.I. and how A.I. is not going to be a separate sentient being, probably. Right. Right. It's actually got be integrated into humans yeah probably. And we're going to become this new super species of enhanced humans. like That's the more viable future, right? Based on yeah Ray Kurzweil, what he's written about. we just
00:03:37
Speaker
We're too prideful of a species to let something be smarter than us. So we will find ways to integrate ourselves with it. We already integrate with AI outwardly anytime we use a tool that enhances our abilities. And there's all kinds of ah you know controversy over AIR and stuff. and yeah I'm right there with people like I'm very conflicted because I'm, you know, I see an AI painting and I'm like, ra that's not art. But then at the same time I turn and I use AI tools in Photoshop. I use AI tools in in organizing my thoughts and coming up with schedules. So it's ah it's interesting. We integrate outwardly and someday we're going to plug it directly and into our brains.
00:04:24
Speaker
there There seems to be two schools of thought, like there's a ah visceral enjoyment of sculpting the way Da Vinci did, right, with a chisel and a hammer and taking a large block. Now we can take a robot and we can do the roughed outline of the yeah the stone sculpture in marble, and then we can go back in and refine it by hand. So that relates to what you were saying with AI. Like, if you're an artist in today's environment and you're not using AI tools to enhance your workflow, you're probably
00:05:01
Speaker
I don't know. like Again, there's two schools of thought. You can do it the traditional way or you can use it to enhance or help. So I feel like the the yeah logical conclusion of that is kids who are immediately born into a society where they get on an airplane, they think nothing of it, ye the same could be said for kids who grew up as with an enhanced computer yeah integrated into their brain. I know it's scary to think about, but... it's where Yeah, it is scary to think about. Why wouldn't you give yourself every advantage in society
00:05:39
Speaker
to be able to compute and and know things immediately off the bat. I mean, obviously, there's a lot of ethical dilemmas that go along with it. Sure. And I like that you brought up the sculpture because i it made me immediately think about 3D printers and how just 3D printers just just make the thing. And even 3D printers are still in their infancy. you know that They have their own drawbacks. Most people, when you buy a chair,
00:06:05
Speaker
you're not buying a chair from an Amish workshop. Most people are going to IKEA or Walmart or a more upscale place, but remember that there's always a place for those handcrafted things. So this is kind of, in a way, it's nothing new because you get your dining set from a shop, a store, so everything matches. It's all made by machines. It's been made by machines for decades.
00:06:38
Speaker
if if not like 100 years. But you always, you're gonna get your dining set from the store and you get your rocking chair from a cool little Amish farm where it was made by hand and you get to tell your friends this was made by hand. This is still, I think, going to continue on forever. You're gonna have the stuff that's done for business and advertising and all that, they're gonna do it as cheaply as possible.
00:07:05
Speaker
And it's going to be done with AI. Special effects are going to be done with AI. And then you're always going to have people go, oh, this painting was painted by hand. Oh, very nice. You know, you're always going to have that, I think. I think you're right. And what does that look like 100 years from now? Yeah, I like how Starfield handled it because Starfield They did something very subtle. ah They don't deal a lot with AI. It is in there. There's side quests that deal with AI. But here's what's interesting. You don't see a future in Starfield where everyone is enhanced by AI and
00:07:48
Speaker
you know, doing calculations in their brains and like doing the Internet in their brains because it's they called it NASA punk. And even though they never said this, I always felt there was sort of a cool 1970s undertone. Right. Sort of how Fallout is the 1950s.
00:08:09
Speaker
version of the future, what they thought the future would look like. NASA Punk really has this, like, it's futuristic, but sort of feels 70s. And leading to the AI thing, one of the items of contraband that you could be arrested just for having is something called, I think, I believe it's like AI transmitters or it's AI chips or something.
00:08:38
Speaker
They don't really talk about it in depth in the game, but the lore would suggest that there's a level of illegality to AI right in the starfield future.
00:08:53
Speaker
So I like that. So it is it exists, unlike ah Fallout, which Fallout we've talked before is kind of like an alternate timeline if the transistor never was invented. It's nuclear technology with vacuum tubes, and then it diverted yeah from when we invented transistors and and more refined ways to handle electronics, I would say. Yeah. Like you said, I love that the 70s, that feels exactly like when they diverted in the timeline between this reality that we know and the starfield reality. Although AI still, like you said, it still exists. It's just not it's not in that future. It was outlawed. It was banned. Yeah. Something happened. And yeah.
00:09:42
Speaker
Now there is a side quest that actually deals with, like you talk to an AI computer. Right, I've
Starfield lore and community support
00:09:50
Speaker
done that one. And it's an interesting, okay, yeah. And so it's an interesting side quest where, yeah, it it really is, it's it's in the corner of the universe though. You don't see that type of computer, an intelligent computer that thinks and feels, you don't see that all over Starfield. So it does hint at,
00:10:13
Speaker
And it's a Ryujin computer, right? Ryujin is a dirty company, so like it makes sense that they would be messing with stuff that they're not supposed to be messing with in that universe. Well, it's fun to get into like sort of the deeper areas of the lore of Starfield, and speaking of lore, we actually want to congratulate a member of our community. Jessica Starr has actually taken over the Starfield lore cast a podcast that we've joked about in the past as being a rivalry, but it's never actually been a rivalry. No. It's very exciting to hear her take it over. It is indeed. And congratulations to Jessica Starr. I think it was around November of last year, so fairly recently, right?
00:11:01
Speaker
It was fun to listen and hear that she has a history of being on other similar podcasts and doing episodes. Yeah, I think there's plenty of room in this world for at least two Starfield podcasts. Now, delete all the other ones that you have. If there are, I don't even know if they're, forget about three, but two is fine. Three is crazy. We'll allow it.
00:11:24
Speaker
Three's insane. But yeah, honestly, and I just feel so lucky that having someone that is so excited about Starfield, the way that we are, like having her be a part of our community. She's in our Discord, she's there chatting. It's so much fun. Thank you Jessica Star for continuing to be an awesome part of our community and and congrats on the on that gig.
00:11:49
Speaker
Yeah, she's a huge
Science build challenge in Starfield
00:11:50
Speaker
Fallout fan too, which is awesome. Makes sense, right? Came from Fallout and yeah now is in Starfield. Definitely. So Michael, you started a science build. What does that mean? Yeah. Wanted to do this ever since Starfield came out, where they have the five different categories of skills, right?
00:12:11
Speaker
and I thought it would be so interesting to limit yourself to just one section because definitely when you play the first time and probably probably most times you're going to be picking skills that you need from all different sections and growing in every in every direction. But I just thought Maybe it's the challenge of it, but i'm that's kind of what I wanted to try. I wanted, this character is a scientist,
00:12:44
Speaker
The only skills I can select are from the science category. And one of the biggest challenges is that this means you cannot use a boost pack. And it's it's funny because I see a lot of people say, like and they're trying to be helpful, and they say, well, do one skill in the boost pack. And I'm just like, no, because that's that's where that's the That's the gateway drug of of getting skills from other places. And I think what has made this so interesting for me is
00:13:23
Speaker
Well, the land vehicle. It's so much more possible now that we have the land vehicle. And I think we sort of predicted that, because I think I've talked about doing this in the past, but the idea of running everywhere is very tricky. But having the land vehicle, it's fun. It it like it makes the land vehicle way more important.
00:13:45
Speaker
um Yeah, I I've been enjoying it. It is a challenge. I think goodness for the land vehicle because you boost or I should say I boost. I mean, it's every other button press is me boosting around. So I do think that that would be. Yeah.
00:14:04
Speaker
a challenge for one, but also kind of cool to not rely on it so much and just to ah see how it affects your gameplay. I know you enjoy stealth stealth games and like Hitman and stuff like that, where you're kind of stealthing around and taking people out. So yeah, with that gameplay in mind, you're not boosting around because it would give you away. So you're more like you're discovering the ladders, you're you know getting up to the level where the enemies are and then taking them out so I could see that.
00:14:33
Speaker
i actually have to use ladders right it's crazy it's insane but here's here's what i like about it the the world of starfield is so detailed and and so beautiful but then Starfield is like, well here's a boost pack. And then you you boost around and you you're not up close and personal with most of the world unless you get inside. And it's it's been really fun. I also have been, met i I started out actually messing with some mods that I ended up removing. okay It's been interesting. You have a contentious history with
00:15:20
Speaker
Yeah. Removing them, installing them, wanting to try them, and then getting rid of them. Yeah. There's some mods that are are pretty incredible, but I ultimately removed. So one of them is Starvival. Now, Starvival, I'm sure people will tell me, and I know, you can modify the heck out of it. You can turn systems on and off.
00:15:40
Speaker
ah What I like about Starvival is you have to like refill your ship. Like you have to refuel it. And they added this like sound effect and it takes a little bit of time. Man, I love that. you you Your whole ship shakes and you hear the sound of it refueling and you charge the the like hyper space battery or whatever. I can't remember the name of it. What are you pumping in hydrogen something or something?
00:16:10
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's the other healing. That's right. And then yeah. And then it's ah and then something for the battery. So this aspect of it. Very cool. I love that.
00:16:26
Speaker
And I get that it's supposed to be a challenge, but I ran into a couple things. Number one, I i got stuck early on in a game ah loop where I was trying to get out of this star system and I kept getting destroyed, destroyed, destroyed. And I thought, okay, well, I got to turn this part of it off.
00:16:47
Speaker
And then finally I was just doing my science thing, walking around a planet, and out of nowhere, I'm just standing around, out of nowhere it says, you've got a concussion. And it had to do with, it had to do with like the pressure, like the gravity.
00:17:06
Speaker
I appreciate what it's doing, and I know that I can tweak it, but I decided not to. I was like, I don't want to deal with just all of a sudden I have a concussion when I... Like, because I'm exploring. Yeah. And I understand it's meant to be a challenge. Vasco, did he play All I Want for Christmas by Mariah Carey just one final time after Christmas had passed, and, like, your brain was like, nope. And it just self-concussioned. You know, like... Self-concussioned. Like, I can handle it up to a certain date. December 26th, no. And then after that... No more.
00:17:35
Speaker
Yeah. I just want to interject real quick. I'm looking at the star field science skills. and but what First of all, what is the total number that you can invest into one tree? What is the limit of skills that you can get where you can no longer invest any more points? Is that like so level 70 or something like that? And then it's like you have no more, you' you're getting skill points, but you can't invest them because of your own science limitation.
00:18:02
Speaker
ah From what I'm just I just did some really fast math and it's probably incorrect um just yeah Basically, I think around level 65. Okay. Well, let us know in the comments if you know. Yeah um I mean, do you have a plan for what happens after that? See actually I'm really glad you asked I thought about this as once I've mastered science I got through that challenge. And then the idea is that then I can either can get whatever skill I want. Oh, okay. I like that. Which is probably the way it should go. I don't think I would want to... Yeah, I feel like after level 65, it'll become a real grind to say, oh, now I can only do engineering. So wait, what happened with the concussion then? I'm sorry to cut you off on that story.
00:18:51
Speaker
No, I mean, that was basically it. Like it just, I got a concussion just from being out. And so while I understand that there's a challenge to that, what I want from the game is to explore. And so if I'm just out exploring and enjoying the landscape and suddenly I have to go to the hospital for no reason, um this is not a dig at Star Vival. Star Vival is great and it does what it needs to do.
00:19:21
Speaker
Uh, but that is, that was, that's a problem I was like, I don't want to deal with that for, for this type of gameplay. Well, let's put that, that skill tree into context. so I'm just going to read some of the skills astrodynamics, which upgrades ship's grab drive.
00:19:37
Speaker
skipping around a little bit, scanning, ability to detect uncommon, rare, exotic, and unique resources. Outpost engineering, construct and research, improved outpost modules. um do you I mean, are you going to be doing outpost stuff? I mean, you probably will, right? So I do want to. I want to have essentially one like science station. I haven't picked my ah favorite planet yet.
00:20:05
Speaker
but What I like about these skills is i've been to to upgrade scanning, you have to collect a lot of samples from right animals and plants. So what's great is I have actually I feel like a scientist. I'm out in the field. um and And this is like, if anyone wants to do a science play through, I've sort of, um none of this is a secret, but I've sort of rediscovered this kind of cool science gameplay loop. Essentially, every so often you can find a science outpost, right? This is not abandoned. These are people that are there doing scientific experiments.
00:20:54
Speaker
So what's cool is this is something I would normally avoid when I was playing the regular game because you want to go and kill pirates and get loot and do the missions and stuff. And someone asking you, can you help me with a science experiment? It usually just felt like it was slowing me down. I need to do other stuff. But now what I've noticed is and Number one, I already like scanning planets, but if you find a science outpost Go there
00:21:27
Speaker
Number one, they will say, hey, can you help us with this one experiment? You'll usually get one science-based mission. So then you feel like I'm a scientist. I'm helping them with the experiment. You'll go. You'll get a reading. you'll but yeah Maybe a scientist got like stranded in a cave. You go and rescue them. You bring them back.
00:21:49
Speaker
Then, here's what you do. After you've scanned the entire planet, animal, you know, fauna and flora, then you go back to that science outpost. Usually, they will have a, well, they have a mission board.
00:22:07
Speaker
And here's what a little bit annoying is that the mission board usually has kill pirates do this or two scientists need to be transported to another science outpost. When I discovered this, I was so excited because The game now, i'm I'm helping these scientists, still feeling like a science build, and it's taking me to another Science Outpost. Do they write on the Reb 8? One of them will. I think in the past, they wouldn't, um even if you didn't have a companion, but since there's been an update. And so since then, like if there's a scientist stranded in a cave, you come out,
00:22:53
Speaker
You jump in the Rev-8, they jump in too. So it helps with that immersion and you drive them back. um And then when you need to transport scientists to another outpost, like on a different planet, you go back to your ship. They're in there. They're in there at like hanging out in your cantina. You need a bumper sticker on your Rev-8 that says, get in, sit down, shut up and hang on. Yeah.
00:23:19
Speaker
Or it's like, get loser yeah get in loser, we're doing science would be another another container contender. um I have, ah as a person who likes just to explore,
00:23:33
Speaker
and go to new planets, sort of discovering this gameplay loop has been really fun ah for me. and And honestly, if anyone else is out there doing a science type of build, ah let us know if there's something else that you incorporate into that.
00:23:53
Speaker
I feel like they're the game itself is a rich environment for that build because it's all about science. And like you said earlier, NASA punk style exploration of the universe. So, I mean, yeah, there's ah there's a lot of lot of fruit on that tree.
00:24:12
Speaker
Yeah. And honestly, you you can then go into all of these story missions. And there are, yeah, there's science-based answers. ah You know, I already, i was I'm helping the guy with the tree in New Atlantis. yeah Periodically, I go back, check on him.
00:24:31
Speaker
and And what's very cool is I like that he he says something about the tree and then I have a botanist answer back to him. So yeah, it it might be exciting. I think I'm gonna keep doing just...
00:24:46
Speaker
general stuff and side stuff yeah with my science build. And then maybe once I'm sort of advanced in a lot of these skills, i I might attack the story and see what options are available to me. At the conclusion of that tree mission, you you actually plug into the tree, you change into like a giant blue creature and you become one with a nature.
00:25:11
Speaker
I hope so. I don't know if you've gotten that far in the mission yet, but that's what happens. Yeah. but Okay. Interesting. Yeah, I'm excited. um It's so, you know, it's it's interesting because you were taking a look at the skills and I'll just say, you know, hey, I can't make myself, ah so I can't go to the weapon skills, you know, with this you know, barrier that I've put on myself. Are you fighting with like a broken beaker? you Like the drunk guy in a bar that smashes a beer bottle and it's like, yeah come at me. And you got like your, your ah what do they call them? The 200 milliliter graduated cylinder. yeah That could be a cool melee weapon. It's just like a giant graduated cylinder with like sharp edges broken off at the end and you're just like stabbing people in the neck with it.
00:26:05
Speaker
Well, and what's great is so, you know, my point about the skills is that I can't go to weapons and say, I'm really good with pistols. I can't do that. But as there are skills in science that let you construct better mods. So it's very balanced. It's pretty balanced in like, I can make myself better at ship stuff and gun stuff with science.
00:26:29
Speaker
you know, instead of engineering and weapons. So you've blinded me with science. Well, there's a really cool ah creation, Michael, that you could actually integrate into your science and exploration
Moral choices in Starfield: Mad or ethical scientists?
00:26:41
Speaker
build. And it's called cozy camping. What a great aim, by the way. It adds a bunch of tents that you can put down.
00:26:50
Speaker
And i saw it has a cooking station, which is convenient. And then I believe you can pick everything back up, you know leave leave nothing behind, and ah you know continue on to your next exploration spot to to do more science.
00:27:06
Speaker
That is ah very, very true. You know, I saw this in the Creation Club and I thought it looked really cool, and i but I hadn't gotten it yet because, yeah, I hadn't thought about how I could apply it to this current build, but I i think you are completely right. like That would be interesting. Now that I think about it, like if I'm out like studying and getting samples, it might be very cool to be able to put up a little camping. It would be. I think you sold me on it. There's also, so Michael, what I was thinking is there's a lot of cool creations coming out. I want to make a segment of our podcast called the Creations Corner, where each podcast we will showcase a particular creation or maybe two.
00:27:54
Speaker
And there was one other it's a great idea that you actually had mentioned and and I discovered kind of at the same time, which is the useful morgues creation. Yes. It looked really cool, like ah in a morbid sort of way, but I love the the gameplay of it, like the whole body bag thing. Yep. It's it's really, you know, it it's multifaceted in that you can Number one, just put bodies in body bags. So it's it changes the look of of the world in the room. But then you can pick those body bags up. You can take the bodies with you. And then.
00:28:34
Speaker
I think where you're leading is what you can then do with them. There's a hab where it contains basically a morgue with a special, I don't know what they call these tables, but you put the bodies on the table and you can then- Yeah, the slab is what I'd call it. It's more like a stainless steel tank for all the liquids and stuff. They're gonna ooze out as you're doing science on these bodies, but you can then harvest organs which become contraband as you know as you find in the in actual game.
00:29:07
Speaker
and yeah But one of the gameplay elements is bio-waste. So every time you do that you you create bio-waste which is also contraband. so oh I think that'd be fun. to stay I was going to ask you earlier for your science game play. Are you an evil scientist like Dr. Evil? Well, I was I currently I'm not. But, you know, ah yeah, as you were describing useful morgues, ah I definitely thought, well, OK, mad scientist, that's something you could do. Or what if you're this? OK, what if you're a good scientist who's just you're trying to make a living and you're trying to do it the right way?
00:29:48
Speaker
And it's just been like, it's been tough to scrape by. And then you're out there and, hey, no one's around. Hey, free body. And some pirates just came at you. yeah You're like, well, you know, I could sell these organs on the black market. What if Cora... It's not my fault. Cora needs new retina transplant because she's been reading too much. Yeah. So... Has she been reading too much? she makes She needs some eyeballs, some fresh eyeballs. And there you go. You yeah need to some frog dissecting. you turn to what you're good at. And if you're a scientist, you're good at, you know, getting them organs out. Well, you you find, you gotta to find a buyer. that's right I love this. I love this. And, you know, the i but I don't know if it was the same creator or if it was somebody else adding onto it, but around Christmas time, there was a mod for useful morgues.
Distinction and creation of cozy games
00:30:45
Speaker
So a mod for a mod.
00:30:47
Speaker
that changed the body bag from a black shiny body bag to Christmas wrapping paper. So you could have brilliant a bunch of bodies under the tree. That's amazing. Shout out to whoever made that mod for the for that creation. That's hilarious.
00:31:10
Speaker
Well, cozy camping and the useful morgues creations sound like good ones to get. And when I saw the cozy camping creation, i I was reminded of a Reddit thread that someone said, I've decided this is a cozy game. And I thought that could be a great topic for our our main discussion.
00:31:35
Speaker
Yeah. And so let me ask you, Michael, what exactly is a cozy game? I don't know if I know. I mean, I think, you know, just based on the name, I think I understand it. And you've often referred to this game as a comfort game is a comfort. A comfort game. The same thing as a cozy game. Here's the distinction, and this this is not me yet answering whether or not it is a cozy game, but the distinction between a comfort game and a cozy game is a comfort game is just anything, for me, at the end of a long day, I might have a new game that I'm excited about, but it it might be too much thinking, you know, or ah Call of Duty, I like playing Call of Duty, but that can be very stressful. You gotta be 100% on.
00:32:20
Speaker
a cozy game, ah I would say a great example coming up is there's a game I'm excited about called Tales from the Shire, and it's all about being a hobbit. There's no war, there's no lord it's Lord of the Rings. It is Lord of the Rings, and that's coming out ah this spring, but there's no battling. You just farm and you go talk to people and you give gifts and you cook for people.
00:32:50
Speaker
It is relaxed. It's geared towards making you relaxed. I have played this game on Xbox. It's on Game Pass called Little Kitty Big City.
00:33:05
Speaker
And it's it's just walking it you walk around and you find collectibles and you discover things. It's very cozy, it's very relaxing. yeah How far we've come yeah and in gameplay or in in video games to where we now have these sub-genres that aren't trying to be a true video game in the traditional traditional sense of Killing aliens, it's the space invaders or you know like you're shooting or you're you know this this kind of action adventure thing that video games must be. It's really refreshing and I love the idea of this Hobbit game. It sounds like fun, sounds like something I would enjoy because like I tried Stardew Valley, would that be considered?
00:33:55
Speaker
A comfort game. I was gonna, yep. So I tried it. I would say so. It didn't hook me, I think because in the sense that it felt like there were too many things to do. I was a little overwhelmed. And to me that didn't make it a comfort game for me. And I'm trying to think if I have a comfort game, I mean, I do often go back to... Or even a cozy game, I should say. A cozy game, right. That's what I meant to say. Like I don't even know if I have a cozy game.
00:34:25
Speaker
in my library, maybe MudRunner or something like that where you can just kind of get in. But sometimes even MudRunner or SnowRunner can get a little too challenging. Yeah. I don't know, and just for the listeners, just in case I didn't finish my thought completely, basically a comfort game can be any game that you, it can be a challenging game. That's just, that's the game you like to play and you come back to it again and again. And then a cozy game is specifically meant from the get-go not to be challenging. So just in case,
00:35:01
Speaker
I rambled off. No, that's a good distinction between the two and and you're right. Like thinking of a a comfort game. Yes, I have plenty of those shadows of or Shadow of Mordor where I just get in there and hack and slash the Batman games were just kind of timing. You're sitting back with a controller and you're timing and beating the ever living heck out of bad guys.
00:35:21
Speaker
And for you, I feel like Fallout would be a comfort game because you can just always jump back into it. yeah You're right. Cozy, though, that's a little more challenging. Oh, I think I thought of one. Pagle. Kind of, although it doesn't have like a cozy. I mean, it does. It has like this cutesy unicorn and, you know, cutesy little. Right. But it's it's a puzzle game, so it can be challenging. It's close.
00:35:49
Speaker
It's close because you aim and then you just hit shoot and then you sit and pack and watch it do its thing. You let the balls fall where they may, yep, if your aim was good. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So there is skill involved, but you also, yeah, you can just chill with it. So pretty close. By the way, quick Pagle story. Yeah. Like if you're trying to impress a, if for some reason you break out Pagle with a group of people at your house, right?
00:36:19
Speaker
You just kind of sit back and let everybody play PEGL for a little little while. And then you say, I can get an ultra on my first try. You make that proclamation. Level 1-1 with the the squirrel, I think it is the multi ball. ah you you hit you get multi-ball off the first bat, and then you can you can pretty much get an ultra if you have played the game almost every time. yeah But if you want to impress your friends and family with an ultra, for those of you who know what that is in peggle, there's your tip. Yeah. And if you haven't played peggle, you should definitely try it. Yeah, that's a fun game. what's your What's your go-to cozy game then?
00:37:05
Speaker
be Before we get into whether or not starfield my go-to cozy game. I treated minecraft like a cozy game Because I would often just I wouldn't really I would just build a farm. Yeah, and I agree with you that so so um I did that for a long time. I'm sort of played out on on Minecraft now, you know what? Even though there are challenges in there for a while last year. I was playing a game called restaurant simulator and That was sort of a cozy game for me because I yeah, I just
00:37:46
Speaker
You you make the the dishes and and it's it's interesting because you can actually do poorly But you're not really punished for it. You might not get a but a bonus So so at first I felt a lot of pressure to like oh, I got to cook and make it perfect and everything but it you can actually take it slow and You still do all right. it's it's Yeah, so that that was sort of one. Yeah, you so you can take a game that isn't necessarily defined as a cozy game and make it a cozy game. right So it doesn't like have to be, like Stardew Valley isn't necessarily out the gate, a cozy game, but once you've played it, invested some hours into it, you understand the mechanics, you have your farm,
00:38:35
Speaker
you jump back into it and you can play that. I feel like Don't Starve is similar to that, right? It's so interesting, because Don't Starve can be very stressful. In a way, it's not a cozy game. I don't think it's designed that way, but it it sort of is, yeah. It's because I have had times, like I love Don't Starve, and I don't even think I'm that good at it.
00:38:57
Speaker
Like my wife is so good at don't starve. She can start a new world and she's just like, she knows what to do. chiup trip chip trip She starts crafting things. She's like before long, she's got meat drying racks and like just everything that she needs. And she's got the heating stone and she's ready for winter. I'm not that good at it, but to your point,
00:39:18
Speaker
there are times where I will just start a new game because I can sort of turn my brain off and just play survival. great I'm actually glad you brought that up because when you first asked, what's a cozy game for me? I almost said the long dark, which I've gotten back into again. yeah And I stopped myself because I was like, well, that's very, it's a very difficult survival game.
00:39:44
Speaker
But, why was that the first thing I thought of? Because even though it's difficult, I find it very relaxing because it's slow paced, you're just finding food, crafting stuff, sewing your clothes up. I don't know, it's interesting. Raft could be could be a cozy game, like now that you defined the crafting and stuff like that.
00:40:10
Speaker
feel like if once you have, I mean, but you you constantly have to upkeep, which can be stressful. But if you have a machine in place, then it could definitely be relaxing.
00:40:24
Speaker
I think a lot of people will probably tell us that many of these games don't nests don't count as cozy games because they're not designed as cozy from the outset. But there's coziness elements to it. Now, is to the question, is Starfield a cozy game? right I mean, to your point, sometimes Subnautica, which is a terrifying game,
00:40:52
Speaker
You can just stay in the safe parts of the water and just build a home. It's like Minecraft. If it's a great game, it always has an element of terrifying danger. It's out there. It's outside your hut. It's outside your special sub-base that you've created and you feel safe in. In that sense, it appeals to your human nature of a safe inner sanctum.
00:41:20
Speaker
so that makes it cozy. yeah And I think I saw an article from Wired talking about cozy games and most of the games they mention are not specifically designed as cozy games, for example, Hades. But oh interest again, it's the same okay ah it's the same type of a setup where after you've played through the game, perhaps you understand what it takes to Play the game. You understand the mechanics. yeah And I think a better example for me is like Diablo, Diablo 2 or whatever the latest one is, where you get to a point in the game, you can't really die given how how the game
00:42:06
Speaker
plays in terms of like all your skills. It's just more or less hacking and slashing as you go through and using your different you know specials. So that makes it cozy, right? A hard definition. For me personally, a cozy game is a game where you build a home and live in it or it's chill and you just sort of wander around and you enjoy the atmosphere. That's a big one for me, atmosphere. yeah That's why the Long Dark and, and well, Stardew Valley, I mean, it's just, to me, it's designed as a cozy game. So, ah Tales of the Shire, absolutely, that's gonna be probably a real big, cozy game. I hope it's good. It looks good. I hope it's good. What was the cat um Cat and Robot future game? Oh, ah yeah, yeah, yeah, Stray. Stray. I love Stray. Is that cozy?
00:43:01
Speaker
i wouldn So I wouldn't describe that as a cozy game although it does have incredible atmosphere and even cozy atmosphere in certain hubs that you're in. To me that's more of a 3D platformer and the reason I don't describe it as cozy necessarily is because there's a lot of segments where these like psychotic robots are chasing you and like you can get a game over if they catch you. yeah it's like That's stressful. so But robots are your friends. Sometimes I like to stab you in the flesh. I hope Well, that's why I told you the other day. That's why I always say please and thank you to the AI when I when i make it do my my chores. Setting yourself up in the future. like This is is ah Steve Buscemi crossing you off the list of pepe people's going to kill, but it's AI. Yeah.
Impact of music licensing on game experience
00:43:58
Speaker
um So I think the the question is, as you so stated from the beginning, like now that we've defined cozy games with various different
00:44:08
Speaker
definitions. um It's open to interpretation. Is Starfield a cozy game? My answer is it's not designed that way, but it absolutely can be. I think some of your science build is kind of maybe subconsciously designed to be a cozy build. Is it not?
00:44:28
Speaker
It absolutely is. No, you're you're 100% right, because when I'm just wandering and collecting plant samples and collecting animal samples, even when the beasts, you know, come at me and I've i've got to put them down, unfortunately, and collect my sample. I just thought of a mod. It's very cozy. Scatter collecting. It's like you don't want to kill the animal, but you want to find out more about it.
00:44:55
Speaker
You go out into nature and you grab some, scatman yeah the The poop is already in the game. Right. Why you know why can't I be like ah Dr. Sattler in Jurassic Park and just put that elbow deep glove on and dive in? You'll have to collect a big supply of elbow rubbers. I don't know what they're called, but big hand rubber deals.
00:45:26
Speaker
You know what's funny is, so they have like the dung piles, you know, the creature piles in Starfield. And you, yeah as we all know, you can find items. right And there was this one time, I took a screenshot and I don't think I ever did anything with it. It was a creature pile. And one of the items that you can get in Starfield is just called spice.
00:45:51
Speaker
And there was a dung pile and it said spice and i wanted and I took a screenshot and I wanted to make a meme and it was like um after having Taco Bell. and that was nice That was gonna be the joke. And I never did anything with it, but there you go. You know, their their sauce packets contain chlorine. That's how they keep them from rotting. So you can get like a five-year-old no sauce packet and it'll still actually be good because it contains like chlorine, essentially. wow So maybe if you find chlorine in there, then you know for sure it was Taco Bell. It was definitely Taco Bell. Yeah, chlorine and spice. There you go. I never know what to think about that because I always... There's the part of me that's like, no chemicals. And then the other part of me is like, yeah, but when I get
00:46:43
Speaker
you know, more natural bread from the bakery, like it molds in three days. right So in a way, like science and preservatives, um very torn on that. We need to go back to the European style of shopping, which is like Monday, you go down downstairs to the the street and you grab some produce and a loaf of bread. And then Tuesday, he you go down to the street and you grab some produce. And that's why they're all skinny over there.
00:47:12
Speaker
There was a time where ah we were on um you know we were trying to eat healthier and because we lived pretty close to a grocery store, there was a time where we would almost do that. Go to the grocery store, what am I cooking today and tomorrow? And then you just make food and and that was your meal for today and tomorrow and then okay, I'll go back to that. If I go to the grocery store thinking like I need stuff for the week,
00:47:42
Speaker
You get a lot of stuff that's not the best. But if you go thinking, what can I throw in a pot today? ah it's It's much better shopping. You're like, ooh, these meat cutlets. Oh, some celery. like I love that. I don't do it very often. You're shopping on the outer rim of the grocery store. Anything on the inner circle is is ah partially hydronated ah soybeans and um yellow number five, and ah what's the sugar? ah What's the fake sugar? Like aspartame? No, I mean like corn syrup. Corn syrup. Oh, God. Like everything from aisle like two to like 19. So like aisle one is produce and then like the perimeters like dairy and bread and
00:48:30
Speaker
and meat or whatever, yeah yeah. And then everything on the inside is like corn syrup mixed with like wheat and something else. It's all, yeah. But in in Brazil, you would just, in the morning go to the local thing, they have these little, they're called palazinos, they're little fresh baked breads. You just, they're cheap, you just grab them and you go home, they're probably still warm. yeah um Awesome. Let's move to Brazil.
00:48:59
Speaker
yeah Okay, this is starfield with in Brazil with normal people Yeah, I think for me the the cozy part and I think cozy although it can happen Definitely on a second playthrough starfield, but on the first playthrough It's not gonna feel that way at all. I don't think It's gonna happen once you're 300 hours in and yeah it's going to be a, ah it could be a natural progression like you go in and like you said, yeah I mean, like ah for example, I want to play The Great Circle, the new Indiana Jones. Is that what it's called? Yeah, Indiana Jones and The Great Circle. I really wanna play that. However, I'm like, I got Starfield here, let's just load it up and like go hang out in Starfield. It's it's easy, it's convenient.
00:49:47
Speaker
It's cozy, yeah and you just jump in there and you can do so many... It's a sandbox, and there's always a comfort level to a sandbox game. Take it from someone who has started... I was just gonna say, I started Indiana Jones. Oh, you did? And it's great. yeah It's great, and I still stopped playing it and went back to the start feeling. Right, because it's a different feeling. It's a different kind of thing, and sometimes, like you said, you just wanna... to want a chill. of Actually, that made me think of Grand Theft Auto. You wouldn't think of that as being a cozy game, but often and same with Saints Saints Row, I think it was with the later ones. Yeah, Saints Row. Yeah, I would just I would literally just jump in there and drive for hours. There's something soothing and fun and ah comforting about just driving around and doing funny things in that game. Yeah.
00:50:41
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
Community involvement and support
00:50:43
Speaker
GTA, part of its success is that it is a it's not cozy in the sense that we see normal cozy games, but driving at night with some of the songs they have on the radio,
00:50:57
Speaker
Oh man, i and I have to specifically shout out Grand Theft Auto IV. Grand Theft Auto IV was the the new like high-definition version of GTA that was in Liberty City, and I just have these amazing memories of... Just feeling like you're driving at night listening to the radio, like, just incredible. absolutely I would agree with you there. You know what's sad? Just real quick. GTA has these music licenses and the licenses run out because how they do the paperwork for video games is different than how they do for movies, which is insane. And they need to change the laws on that. They do. And so... God, ah Vice City.
00:51:45
Speaker
right? Didn't all the licenses run out for Vice City? And that had one of the greatest soundtracks of any video game ever. Yeah, and I think that maybe they they renewed some and not others, because it's like they're not selling as many copies of the game. But the sad thing is, there's times where I want to go back and relive Grand Theft Auto IV, because it was one of my favorite stories. And I heard that if you were to boot it up now,
00:52:13
Speaker
the updated version of the game has a bunch of new, more obscure music to cover for, which, hey, okay, maybe I'll like some of the new music, but it's not the same game that I played years ago. It's not the same experience. You wanna relive that moment, you're crossing the bridge at night, there's a full moon in the background and you've got a killer track on, you can't recreate it. I remember Flash of Light,
00:52:42
Speaker
ah was a big one. who I don't even know if that's the title of the song, and I can't remember who said it. And maybe it's someone it might be someone who got canceled. So maybe it's like, you that's the trouble with a lot of people. You can talk about someone that's been canceled. That doesn't make you a bad person. but You can like content that someone who has been canceled has put out and not be a bad person. Like you could separate the heart from the artist. Yes. I mean, there's plenty of filmmakers I love that are, you know, bad people. but yeah or musicians even. That's why I try not to get too deep into the personal lives of celebrities or musicians or anything like that because you'll mostly get disappointed. Me either. The less you know, the better.
00:53:27
Speaker
Do you guys like Starfield as a cozy game? Leave a comment on our YouTube. Let us know what your experience is, how you experience the game. If you have made it into a cozy game or what about the game feels cozy to you, we'd love to hear your thoughts or pop into our Discord. We've got a community of close to 800 people that just like hanging out and talk. And sometimes we have excellent kind of conversations about things just like this. So we'd love to hear your thoughts. yep Totally. Michael, you put out a video on our YouTube channel called Starfield's Most Punchable Character. By the way, I thought this one yeah was hilarious. And it's Ron Hope for those who don't know. But there were some great comments on that video. Definitely, if you haven't seen it, go check it out and ah tell us whether or not you agree he's the most punchable character in Starfield.
00:54:21
Speaker
Yeah, and actually, to that point, on our Patreon, we had a couple comments. One was from Space Cadet 829, a longtime friend of the show, who said, um down with Ron. So some agreement there. I love how you integrated Doom mod into that video, by the way. That was a stroke of genius. Thanks. We had this idea for a while of like, we should do a video hating on Ron. The Doom DLC, the free Creation Club content had just come out. I thought, you know what? Let's do this with some style. You know, and it's interesting. So on that post as well, we had Mel Archival, one of our supporters on Patreon, said that he hadn't done the Doom Quest line yet.
00:55:10
Speaker
actually hadn't done the quest line for i Ron Hope, but he was working on the Doom quest line, asking, did you find all the plushies? So he had missed two of them, and I gotta tell ya, I only found one plushie. I think there's like between six and eight. oh wow So yeah, I only found one. There's these Doom plushies you can get and then put around, hey, cozy game, there you go, evidence of a cozy game, even when it's Doom.
00:55:40
Speaker
Related you can get little plushies to put around your home. So um No, I only found one. So if you're gonna go into that you might want a guide to find all the plushies My problem with with plushies is that I'm always writing the limit of what I can carry. I'm just constantly at right at the full carry capacity. And in my mind, I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna have a separate play through where I collect all the plushies and do that. I don't know if I'll ever do that. but
00:56:14
Speaker
I keep telling myself I need to have a playthrough where I stay in that universe.
Celebrating episode milestones
00:56:23
Speaker
The unity is, first off, I love that game mechanic, but it's sort of ruined my desire or feeling that I can settle down and create a home. right That's what's kept me from doing outposts, knowing that I'll have to leave it behind. But I don't have to leave it behind.
00:56:42
Speaker
See, that's what I need to do. I think I need a new character that's gonna stay, and that's that. And never go through the unity. And never go through unity, and then I will build, build, build my home, collect all the plushies, place them around the home. That's that's what I need to do.
00:57:01
Speaker
the ultimate to cozy environment. that's the That's when it will happen, for sure. I don't know much about cozy, but you should see my cozy collection. It's phenomenal.
00:57:15
Speaker
Just this drawer like this huge drawer, it's like John Wick's drawer, but you pull it out instead of weapons and gold coins, it's all these beer koozies. Mm-hmm.
00:57:28
Speaker
Well, um we yeah we do appreciate all the comments. And speaking of Patreon, that is how some of our fans support the show and everything that we do on the channel. And on every episode, we generally thank our legendary members. But every once in a while, I like to shout out all of our members at every level. And I'm gonna do that right now, and I'm gonna do it fast. Because we've got Martin Jovich, Josh Baxter of the dog, Shellshock, Kai the deer guy, the great serpent, Houdouvain, Sasha, Silent Crisis, Ari LaVie, Bergenstock, Pete, Daniel Griffith, Afro Bird, Dingo Dan the dragon reborn, Darren, Mel Archival's, Malcolm, Jora Grayscale, Leakos.
00:58:12
Speaker
or Lycos, Brandon Warnock, Space Cadet, Kit O'Lohara, Agravar, Gilly Bumpkin, Hicks, Illness, Todd, Rampage American X, not that Todd though. But maybe it's him, that's a secret account. It could be, it could be. Chance Shenanigan, Lucas, Cherry Bomber, and Olivier and Zegra Roxx had to do that because it's a new year and all of you are amazing.
00:58:38
Speaker
Thank you so much. Yes, we appreciate everybody who's a part of our Patreon and we do release the episodes there early and ad free. So that is a bonus. I wanted to ask you, Michael, should we do something for our 50th?
00:58:53
Speaker
episode this is episode 47 that's true we've got a couple episodes to think about it we do and and actually that's a great question and we are open to suggestions we're going to give it some thought on our own but if you have an idea I'd like to give back to the community in some way. It's a great idea. I don't know how or what that looks like, but yeah, we'll be thinking about it. Absolutely. Thanks to everyone that listens on Spotify, Apple, and thank you to those watching on YouTube. All links are provided in the show notes below.
00:59:24
Speaker
Extra special thanks for comments and feedback. If you have a comment, suggestion, or in-game story to share, especially about how it's a cozy game or a cozy game. Oh, yeah. You can leave a comment on our YouTube page. And if you like the show, consider dropping a five star review on your favorite podcast app. That would really help us out. Thanks for traveling the starfield with us. Make sure you subscribe because we will be back for more. See you then.