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Episode 11: How to Deal with Existential Overload
83 Plays4 years ago
Drs. Brenner and White talk about everything that is going on nowadays - COVID, global events, the US election, and how to navigate the great sense of uncertainty, even dread, with which so many are confronted.
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Transcript
Introduction to Mental Health Focus
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Speaker
and that you have to put on your own oxygen mask before giving one to anyone else. Thank you for joining us on doorknob comments, a podcast that we created to discuss all things involving
Stress and Current Events
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mental health. We take the view that psychiatry is not just about the absence of illness, but rather the positive qualities, presence of health and strong relationships and all the wonderful things that make life worth living.
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I'm Dr. Farah White. And I'm Dr. Grant Brenner. Today we're going to talk about a topic that's on everyone's mind, how much stress we're all under nowadays. We've got some very disruptive political things going on in the United States, a global pandemic, which is picking up steam. And more than that, we have a lot of disagreement among people about what's the right thing to do when it comes to all of these factors.
Impact of Digital Connectivity on Stress
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So what are we supposed to do? How do we deal with this unprecedented situation? And it's all being driven by our ability to connect to each other digitally. And was there something specific that has happened recently that led you to want to talk about this?
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many things going on, you know, pretty much everyone I speak with is like, I'm easily overwhelmed because there's so many different things. And so I think when people are confronted with so many different things, you know, how do you deal with so many different moving parts?
00:01:28
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And I'm talking mainly about people who, you know, were generally fairly fortunate, but you can't really open up the news, for example, without each day there being a dozen different really unbelievable things going on domestically, let alone what you read about happening in other countries.
00:01:46
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In the meantime, a lot of people who are relatively fortunate, you know, are facing large amounts of strain, had to deal with kids if they can't go to school and you're trying to work from home.
News Cycle and Election Stress
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And in a couple of weeks from when we're recording, there's going to be a presidential election. And the number of controversies and things that are hard to make sense of is dizzying. The news cycle is overwhelming. I know a lot of people who just don't pay attention anymore.
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I think that that comes obviously with its own issues, but I would agree that it's really a time of massive stress for people who may, you know, have had in some ways, you know, more calm and predictability pre-COVID and pre all of this. I think the number of stressors and the intensity of them, it seems like it's only continuing to rise. So maybe we could talk about a couple of the ways that people can cope with
Coping Strategies Challenges
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this.
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We can talk about coping. Definitely there's things that help, but there's like a, like a meta issue, right? Meaning that you can get self-care advice from people and yeah, definitely those things, you know, are worth talking about, but there's also, I think.
00:03:00
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There's another element to it which has to do with the tendency to want to try to apply coping mechanisms, which all makes sense to do. But when you feel overwhelmed and not as it often difficult to do those things, you know, it's easy to know what we're supposed to do. It's often very hard to actually do it. So, you know, how do you overcome the obstacles to keeping these routines or putting them in place if they've fallen by the wayside?
00:03:30
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It's something like, well, do we have to always be doing coping right?
Variability of Coping Strategies
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Is there a point where it's normal to have difficulty coping and kind of cope with having difficulty coping and not put pressure on oneself to always be doing better, working harder, right? Right.
00:03:50
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Well, I think, you know, that I don't like to overexert. Coping for, you know, me and coping for you, it's just going to look a little bit different. Sometimes the best we can do is just get back under the covers, you know, and stay there for as long as we possibly can. And sometimes the best we can do is like get up and do that 20 minute workout. So it's going to vary a lot from person to person.
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Yeah, I
Perfect Coping: Helpful or Harmful?
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agree. But I feel like it's also part of the culture that we're in. So I see this a lot on popular psychology blogs, where, you know, half the blogs are like the number one way to cope with COVID, you know, physical exercise, but then the other half of the blogs are like, do we always need to try to be so perfect or
00:04:32
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when is it counterproductive to X, Y, or Z? And I think that comes up especially with the work from home situation that we're in because people realize that maybe it's not that important to be workaholics all the time. And we spend maybe more time with our families or realize how important the human connection is in a way that we may not
Time Value Shift During Pandemic
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have.
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I think there are a couple of ways to assess and a lot of times, and I think this is the one thing that the pandemic has done is it's made people reevaluate how they spend their time. This time really is the most valuable commodity and it is so limited. So, you know, when we think about how we work, you know, in terms of just efficiency and productivity, if we're taking another look at that and how hard do we really need to be pushing, I think that's okay.
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because this might be the time for some people to step back, for other people that can kind of step it up and can do everything right and eat healthy and exercise. They probably feel great and that's wonderful, but that's not everyone. Well, so this is from August of 2017 in Harvard Business Review by Thomas Chamorro Primusic and Derek Lusk.
Excessive Resilience: Maladaptive?
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It's called The Dark Side of Resilience. It's in their stress section.
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We tend to think of resilience as a positive trait. And, you know, that makes sense. We understand that. But they say, could too much resilience be a bad thing? Just like too much muscle mass can be a bad thing. For example, putting strain on the heart. Large-scale scientific studies suggest that even adaptive competencies become maladaptive if taken to the extreme. And then they talk about Bob or Rob Kaiser's research on leadership. His research indicates
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that overused strengths become weaknesses and it is easy to conceive of situations in which individuals could be too resilient for their own stakes. For example, extreme resilience could drive people to become overly persistent with unattainable goals. Okay, so meaning that when people are too resilient and I
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I don't know if I would, it would really count it as resilience versus like defensiveness at a certain point. You know, like where do you draw the line when people are just kind of shutting down to like all the horrors? Right. Yeah. There's kind of like a high pass filter when things get too bad emotionally, like you got to tune things out.
Adaptive vs. Maladaptive Resilience
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Well, there's a difference say between suppression as an adaptive defense and avoidance as a maladaptive defense.
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If you're waiting for biopsy results and you know you're going to get them in a week, it's good to be able to suppress your worry. You don't want to be bugging out constantly. On the other hand, if you're afraid that you're sick and you avoid going to the doctor and getting any tests done because the anxiety is overwhelming, that's likely to cause illness in the future.
00:07:35
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And so maybe resilience is like that a little bit, but I think you have to talk about change management. You pointed out earlier how much uncertainty there seems to be right now.
00:07:47
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And so it's hard to predict and control what's going to happen when you just don't know, right? There's no model. Yeah, right. But you can know that I think people can have faith in their own ability to deal with whatever comes their way. And that might be one way to like comfort ourselves during this time.
00:08:09
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Well, a sense of self-efficacy to deal with unpredictable situation is definitely helpful. I think with the kind of dark side of resilience or the maladaptive resilience is when the same factors that allow someone to get through difficult circumstances in one context make them ill-suited to deal with uncertainty and change in another context. So can you give us an example of what that might be?
00:08:36
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Well, I think the exercise example is pretty good. Like if you always go to the gym and that's how you kind of keep yourself together and then you can't go to the gym anymore and so you stop exercising completely or you insist on going to the gym and expose yourself to coronavirus unnecessarily, though we can argue whether there are safe gym setups right now.
00:09:00
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But I remember early in the pandemic, I knew people who maybe it would have been wise to be more cautious, but they were stuck on a particular way of exercising. And the people who've successfully adapted have changed what they do. And I think from the Harvard Business Review article, they're talking about
00:09:20
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something like a leadership quality, like someone who relies on taking over and telling everyone what to do at one point in their career or in a business development that may be very helpful. But if they continue to do that later on when they need to delegate, for example, and ease up on the stick, then that can turn into a liability. So how would you suggest that people, I don't know, either rein themselves in or check in about that?
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Well, I think it's interesting because you say check in. So what do you think makes sense for people to take stock during times of
Essential Support Systems
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change? What do you usually advise people to think about or pay attention to?
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I actually really like the idea of having a buddy system, which is something that people have when they are, let's say, a big group swimming in a lake, making sure that everyone is safe, stays above water. And so I think having a buddy in today's world, someone who you've
00:10:25
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explicitly asked to be really honest with you about what they see and, you know, someone that you can have open and direct conversations with. I mean, ideally, that could be a therapist, but if it's not, I think it can be people have these like work husbands and wives and I think being away from buddies or people who know you really well is one of the kind of hidden dangers here.
00:10:51
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so that people can veer off course and not necessarily be called out on it as quickly. That also might be an example of something that is resilient in one setting like self-sufficiency, becoming a liability when greater community is called upon. But what topics or questions do buddies need to look out for for each other?
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I would say close friends, if you've noticed that someone seems different, if they seem really tired or disheveled or more irritable or burnt out, checking in. I think that's something that we can all do for each other during this extraordinarily difficult time. What would you ask someone or what would you say?
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I would usually say, I feel like I'm losing my mind. Do I seem like I'm losing my mind? That kind of thing. Oh, you're saying if you were to reach out to someone, but how about if you see a friend and I guess they've asked you to
00:11:49
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Let them know, like they've kind of gotten your consent ahead of time. Let me know if you see any signs of a problem. But I'm thinking of a situation that is maybe more structured. People have talked through it a little bit and they have a couple of areas, you know, where they want a sort of a proactive check in rather than waiting until it looks like, you know, there's potentially a bad situation brewing. What are the areas that you think people need to look out for when they've got each other's backs?
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The biggest things to check in on because what I see here as the most dangerous thing really is the breakdown of relationships. The most dangerous thing. Yeah, I do because I think people need support. We're social creatures. Some people are more aggressive about
00:12:38
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keeping in touch and putting things in their schedule. So if you notice that someone is drifting, especially now where I think isolation, you know, is one of the biggest things that we need to fight back against with, you know, kindness and compassion, you can kind of bring that person back in and say, Hey, what's been going on? We've been out of touch. Bring me up to speed. So I think that's, you know, a very general thing, but it's also important to do.
00:13:05
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It's also very specific. It's easy to be very abstract, like, oh, relationships are important, but this is a very concrete thing. And a lot of the other stuff doesn't work without the relationship being reasonably good in the first place. Of course, you have to give people some slack, right? Now's not a good time to be perfectionistic and call people out on every little mistake they make. You know, we're all human, etc.
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But if you don't have the relationship, that's like you can't go swimming without water in the pool. That's the context. Right. I think that that is paramount and making time for that. And I know because we're on screen so much and we're on Zoom and then working on our phones and via email that the last thing
00:13:51
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Yeah, that a lot of us want to do is get on another Zoom call or text a friend, I'm or whatever.
Supportive Relationships and Self-Esteem
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But I do think that putting plans in place when you do have the energy, whether it's scheduling a catch-up, taking a walk, it is safe, I think. Pets are good too. Pets. Yeah. Sometimes after a long day of doing video calls, I want to look at my phone for a couple of hours and just unwind.
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No, for different people, different things, you know, like for me texting with a good friend blows off a lot of steam, but for someone else that might not work.
00:14:26
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but not work as well. Yeah, what are some other things? I was thinking about pets. I was thinking about the point you were making about relationships is important because it facilitates so many other things. For example, if you do want to maintain an exercise routine, it's good to have a buddy where you inspire each other without kind of getting on each other's nerves. It's good to have a buddy who supports self-esteem, which is a specific thing, self-esteem support. It's when you cheer someone on,
00:14:56
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for having a positive sense of self, specifically. And that drives people's faith in themselves, the feeling that you were describing before that psychologists call self-efficacy. So if you support people's self-esteem in the certain way that you're cheering on having a positive sense of self,
00:15:16
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And you support specific behaviors that are likely to succeed, you know, without pressuring people like, you know, you have to be resilient, resilient, resilient, resilient. You know, you give people some latitude. It's a much it's a much more likely model to succeed in the long run, because like they say, you know, it's it's a marathon, not a sprint. And if your attitude towards self-care is like a sprint, well, you know, that's not necessarily sustainable.
00:15:43
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Right. And that is, I think that person is more likely to burn out and then, you know, become demoralized. But I think just in general, when we have expectations for ourselves about what we're going to be able to accomplish or what we're going to be able to do today for ourselves, for our bodies, for our careers, that we have to like constantly be reexamining them and saying like, well, when do we get, you know, a restorative day, a day off?
Importance of Breaks and Role Modeling
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And I think everybody deserves that.
00:16:13
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Right, quote unquote mental health day. But the mental health day doesn't have to be about, you know, forcing yourself to like get in a bath with essential oils. Like, Oh, we have to do this because it'll help us feel better. I think there are that it's okay to take a pause from that. You got to find your own thing. I mean, I like simple things. You know, for me just going for a walk. I like great deal.
00:16:38
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But that kind of neurotic, like I have to do it a certain way, otherwise it's not good enough type of attitude isn't great. I also like the idea of micro vacations, like throughout the day, just taking five or 10 minutes. My dad, who was a very hard worker, grew up in the Great Depression, ran the family business. He would talk about Superman naps, which
00:17:01
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You know, it's good to take these quick naps and it's a little easier to do it if you're working from home. Yeah. But I think there are even maybe offices where they have set that up. And I saw recently that the military implemented like a power nap type of situation. I think that it's so important to take your time out during the day.
00:17:21
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I that's the world that I want to live in. I mean, I think some offices, some companies are progressive. Sometimes the military adopts things like that because they see the utility of it. But a lot of companies, it's also like there's nowhere to catch a snooze.
00:17:36
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Right. But to me, it's partially about keeping our sanity, but also there has to be a point that people recognize when they have their eyes on the screen and nothing is happening and they're just spinning their wheels. That's a time to really step back and take a nap.
00:17:54
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You should recognize that for sure.
Self-Awareness and Stress Monitoring
00:17:56
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But then you then you want to talk about preventive things like taking breaks on a regular and not waiting again, not waiting until you realize you're starting to redline where the needles in the yellow. I kind of like to imagine that there's like a dial in my head and I kind of pay attention to where I am. So that kind of self appraisal is really helpful as well, where you kind of want to be your own buddy as well.
00:18:19
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You might have a good relationship with yourself. You don't want to be too reliant on someone to tap you on the shoulder, but that's good. You also want to kind of keep track of that yourself. What's that expression in an emergency? The first pulse you take is your own? Yeah, that you have to put on your own oxygen mask before giving one to anyone else. It's the same concept, right?
00:18:41
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Yeah, yeah, definitely. But you often are emphasizing, as we're talking, the idea of catching things when they have reached a critical mass. And then I'm sort of saying, well, how about catching them in the pre-critical state? Yeah, I think that's great if everyone could have a dial in their head and know, OK, I feel myself starting. But I think it sneaks up on all of us. For sure, yeah. Not everyone.
00:19:05
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Yeah, not everyone has your background and training. Oh, I wasn't suggesting that I'm able to do that. I can give the right advice, following it is much harder. Okay. All right. That's what it sounded like for a little bit.
00:19:22
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Yeah. No, no, no. I'm definitely a work in progress. Probably all are. It takes years to get to that point. Plus, if you take a nap, you have to check in and make sure it's okay with the other people around you because they may be expecting you to be doing something. Maybe, but I also think- Making dinner or something.
00:19:43
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I also think that it's important to like model good behavior, right? To coworkers, to the people that report to us, to the people that we report to. Children. Yeah, like all around, we have to just say like, it's okay to take a break. And if they never see you taking a break, then how are they going to be okay with taking a break for themselves? Do as I say, not as I do. Well, yeah, but I don't know if that flies so much.
00:20:10
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No, well, I think the point of that expression is that it doesn't work. Yeah.
Election Outcomes and Anxieties
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Because people learn more from modeling than they do from instruction. It's nice if what you tell people aligns with your behavior also, more or less. Yeah, and sometimes it can be aspirational.
00:20:25
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I want to ask you what you think about the election. I think it's. You have any predictions? I don't want to predict. I have a feeling that I don't know that it's going to be OK because it just kind of has to be OK. But I I think that this is activating so much in so many people. And it is a very, very difficult thing for me to watch a lot of.
00:20:51
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stress and anxiety surrounding it and doing my best to sort of hold it together and keep my cool. Why do you have thoughts about the election that you want to share? Yeah, sure. Well, I think in general, I don't have strong political beliefs per se. I can usually see multiple perspectives. I'm finding it hard to cognitively empathize with people who support the current president.
00:21:20
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I used to find it a little bit easier, but it feels really harder and harder to do that. And I'm curious what that's like for people who support him, who still support Trump or who are questioning. His behavior is very hard to make sense of, though I can still understand sort of the pros, even if I don't share them emotionally. What I have seen is that
00:21:46
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there is less of a feeling that, well, of course he's going to lose, right? Because the first time people were so far off the mark, I think this is really one of the interesting things about it is that people are recalibrating their expectations.
00:22:03
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And I think it fits in with the pandemic, too, because there's a similar kind of thinking, which is, as you're suggesting, people want to be definitive. Oh, you know, the pandemic is going away. Or we got through the first wave.
00:22:20
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People will argue over whether there's like a second wave or not, sort of like they'll argue about the presidential election. And so I feel like I want to say there's something that we can learn here about how to make our way through an uncertain world. I don't quite know what it is.
00:22:37
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It is partially believing that whatever happens, there's a coming back from it, there's a healing from it. We are just so wounded collectively that it's hard to imagine a time when we'll be restored and have the kind of world that we want again, but I do feel that it will happen.
00:22:58
Speaker
Well, it depends who you mean by we, but I get your drift. On a collective level, there's a lot of fragmentation and conflict and the feeling that in some ways there isn't going to be any way for some groups to see eye to eye with other groups. At the same time, we're seeing nations in the Middle East accepting Israel for the first time as a country, which I don't even know how to make sense of what's happening on a global level, except that
00:23:27
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it seems very human how self-contradictory it is and how unclear the path forward is. I tend to agree that for most people it's going to be okay. I tend to think it's unlikely that there's going to be some real apocalyptic scenario come to
Post-Election Psychological Impacts
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pass. But the fears are definitely near the surface.
00:23:50
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And I think that is what I would predict is that after the election, regardless of who wins the election, there's going to be a collective shift where a lot of this is going to is going to suddenly be a relief from the uncertainty. And we're going to see some kind of psychological whiplash or response after the election. Again, like the metaphor of like waiting for
00:24:14
Speaker
you know, worrying that you're going to have a terrible diagnosis and finally getting the news one way or the other always is a major sea change. We're going to hope that that comes back as benign. I know. I don't know what the five-year survival rate will be. The four-year survival rate, yeah.
00:24:38
Speaker
Well, right. You know, our politics, um, it's not polite to talk about politics, which is ironic because the word politics means polite or maybe it's not ironic because there's, I guess there's something I want to say, which, which has to do with the idea that Trump could get reelected. And what would that mean for people?
00:24:58
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And when I say, you know, for people, of course, we tend to identify more with people who are similar to ourselves. And like you're saying, it's it's good to surround yourself with people who are supportive. And maybe it's worth noting that that can also lead to the echo chamber effect, where it does make it hard to
00:25:15
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function more collectively because we do tend to silo. And we see that on social media, which also is a double-edged sword. Social media can support positive coping and the exchange of useful information, but social media can also propagate misinformation that causes harm.
Social Media's Dual Role
00:25:37
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Have you watched the social dilemma yet? No, no. I can't believe you haven't watched that. I'm on the fence about whether or not to watch it.
00:25:44
Speaker
Okay, you need to watch it because you need to do a podcast episode about it. It's a bit of a dilemma for me about whether or not to watch it is what I'm saying.
00:25:52
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I can't believe that you, knowing what I know about you and how much you like information and data and research of all people, you know what? I think it's because you know you're not gonna like what you
Closing Remarks and Disclaimer
00:26:06
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see. It's gonna make it hard for you to keep on this path. I'm afraid I won't be surprised by it. Also, I'm still catching up on shows from 2012. Okay. All right, everyone. On that note. Take good care, but don't try too hard.
00:26:23
Speaker
All right. And reach out to someone who gives you what you need. Okay. That's nice. One disclaimer. This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of psychiatry or any type of medicine. It's not a substitute for professional and individual treatment services and no doctor-patient relationship is formed. If you feel that you may be in crisis, please don't delay in securing mental health treatment.