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Batman's Weirdest Foe: Dr. Hurt Part Two
48 Plays2 years ago
Join Derek L. Chase and Corinne Levy as they learn everything they can about Dr. Hurt, the mysterious supervillain who has been planning his attack on Batman for years!
This time, they do a deep dive on Batman RIP!
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Transcript
Introduction of Podcast and Hosts
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to Comically Pedantic, where we take a detailed look at the complicated concepts, characters, and history of comic book culture. I'm your host, Eric L. Chase, and joining me again on this wonderful episode is Corinne Levy. It's me. I haunt this podcast now. They cannot get rid of me.
00:00:31
Speaker
that's actually like when we were we went out recently and Austin mentioned you're basically the the co-host and I guess I should just I mean as long as you're okay with it I'm okay with it
00:00:50
Speaker
I don't care. It's fine. It's just my hobby now. It's one of those things where it was like, this is really working and I'm very much enjoying it. So I'm just going to keep going with it. And I never actually stopped to think about like, uh, that's an option. Like what I was doing on Sunday night.
Personal Anecdotes and Brewery Visit
00:01:10
Speaker
This is just the thing I could be like, Hey, you're, uh, this is your show now. Like, and like.
00:01:17
Speaker
Make whatever you want with that. Make with it what you will. Yeah, thank you. I trip over my... I've been up since 4.30. Yeah, that's fine. And for people who are not here with us as we record, it is 8 o'clock at night. So I've been up for a while.
00:01:38
Speaker
We basically had the first half hour was our apparent board meeting. Slowly coming to terms that I have in fact, at least a co-host for another year. Yeah, this is going to, I mean, we had an invisible lease podcast producers meeting and oh boy. I mean, one thing I do think this, the next year will at least be interesting.
00:02:05
Speaker
fun yeah it makes me hit my reading basically Derek was like Corinne doesn't do enough we need to give her literature and now I'm doing it I think it'll be fun I'm excited to see your takes on things so we'll we'll definitely I think you and I will
00:02:28
Speaker
focus on different aspects of different stories. Oh, for sure. Sometimes I get lost in just the fashion of what's going on. Sometimes so do I, for sure. But we shall see. OK, so I guess before we get started, I should ask, do you have a bright spot for the week? I don't know. I've been super busy. What have I been doing? I feel like my whole week has just been scheduling.
00:02:59
Speaker
which isn't very fun. So that's definitely not it. Well, I mean, there was also like some missed scheduling, but that wasn't you. No, that's not me. I wiped my hands clean of that. We all got cider. That was fun. That was probably my favorite part. My boyfriend and I got
00:03:21
Speaker
It went on like a ton of walks yesterday. It was great. We were just outside. I think I got sunburned, but it was worth it. But yeah, that's my bright spot. And then also my literal bright spot is my sunburn, which I achieved. So yeah. I mean, we got cider with you guys, a beautiful place. Very much enjoyed that.
00:03:47
Speaker
The next day, I went with a different friend to a brewery. Oh, it's funny. Fort Nonsense. It's in Randolph. I don't know if you're... Yeah, I've heard about that one. I haven't been there yet. They just got it. I guess they used to be in a really small place now. They just got this big area. They were doing sour stock. It was like you paid for tickets as you walked in, and then you could get sours throughout the night.
00:04:16
Speaker
And all of them were really tasty. I'm sure that sugar content was crazy high. That's fine. But they were really good. They had a pina colada one that tasted just like a pina colada. They had one that tasted like red wine. I don't know enough about red wine to tell you what kind, but it tasted like red wine to me. Good enough. There was one that was like raspberry and it just tasted like candy. It was a good time. And they had live music and stuff.
00:04:45
Speaker
I'm not one usually to broaden my horizons and go out to like new places. I'm very much like. You stick with the classic. Yeah. And I don't want to be too far from home because I want to be able to like run away. I just want to get home. Yeah. The highlight of my day is when I get in bed and start reading. So like.
00:05:10
Speaker
I mean, there are other things obviously that I look forward to, but that's usually my like, this is my calm down for the day, you know? I think it's funny that your favorite part of the day is getting inside, and then this is probably why I'm a good co-host, because I'm the opposite. My favorite part is believing it's getting outside.
00:05:31
Speaker
Oh, what a time. I am very much into making my space. We're so different. Yeah. All right.
Introduction to Batman R.I.P. Storyline
00:05:38
Speaker
Well, so last time we were here, we discussed what Batman frequently referred to as the hole in things. The Black Glove had made their move on Mr. Mayhew's Island. Bruce's identity had been revealed to his model slash ruler of a small African country girlfriend. And Imposter Batman had been popping up all around Gotham.
00:05:59
Speaker
things are looking kind of weird for the Caped Crusader. At the center of the last conspiracy was a man named Dr. Hurt, the same doctor that studied Batman in an isolation chamber and was shown the ability to implant hypnotic suggestions in his test subjects. Nearly all of these events over the last dozen or so issues climax and the first story that we're going to discuss today, Batman R.I.P.
00:06:26
Speaker
A fun thing I learned in preparation for this episode is that RIP is set up in a three act structure over the course of six issues. The first two- It's for each letter in RIP. Right. The first issues, they act as pure setup. The next two explore the ramifications of the inciting incident. And the final two issues are the full climax of the storyline. This is basic storytelling, but it's always fun to kind of see things delineated in such like a very specific structure. I kind of like that.
00:06:56
Speaker
It's not something that when I'm reading it, it's not really what goes through my mind, but when I'm actually sitting down to study it, it's like, oh, this is pretty clearly laid out. That's why this works so well. And this is also Grant writing, right? Yes, this is Grant Morrison. And so everything that we discussed in the last episode is basically just the lead up. Dr. Hurt has been there, but more of a background character.
00:07:25
Speaker
This is where Dr. Hurt takes a much more prominent role. And then we'll get to what happens after that, but it's really interesting. Yeah, cool. Before we truly dive into the story, I think it's important to get a little info from Grant Morrison about the genesis of what I would argue is one of the better runs on Batman in the modern era. Speaking with Newsarama, Morrison stated, I can tell you this much.
00:07:53
Speaker
This is the first story I had planned when Peter Tomasi, the editor at the time, asked me to do Batman, which must have been two years ago now, or longer. And the very first story title I noted down was Batman R.I.P. I had a particular image of the cover which Alex Ross had done a bang zoom thousand times better version of for the second part of the story. So it came from there. And out of that notion came the idea for the big overarching story I've been telling since I first came on the book.
00:08:21
Speaker
Everything, the Zurn R graffiti, the Joker Pro story, the Club of Heroes, every detail that's been in the book for the last couple of years is significant. Everything is a clue to the grand design that's unfolding. So the idea that the story would be a culmination of Morrison's run and the announcement that the title would be RIP got the media of the time heavily invested. DC released pins at New York Comic Con with Nightwing, Robin, Red Hood, and Hush.
00:08:49
Speaker
all but the words, I am Batman, printed beneath them. Comic books printed by DC at the time also included a checklist of issues related to the story alongside a picture of the Batman cowl hanging over a tombstone. News organizations ran pieces on the death of Batman before the issues ever
Media Hype and Fan Reactions
00:09:08
Speaker
even came out. RIP, before even releasing a single issue, became a big deal.
00:09:15
Speaker
So everything that's leading up to this, they're really playing up the fact that the titles are AP. There's the possibility that Batman is no longer going to be around. Yeah. I mean, this all comes from- I'm wondering if all the hype would help or hurt that. I mean, I guess we'll find out.
00:09:36
Speaker
Well, okay, so I was reading it as this was coming out and I can tell you a lot of people were really let down with the story. I think it's still really good. Right.
00:09:53
Speaker
But there were a lot of promises made through not Grant themself, but just through the way the culture was eating up things that were being released, like little tidbits here and there that are never really paid off because they weren't real promises to begin with.
00:10:11
Speaker
Yeah, kind of like, you know, reading into the articles and stuff like that. You know, that happens a lot still. Well, I mean, and this is also coming around like the part of the media hype is I don't know if you're aware of this in the 90s. DC killed Superman.
00:10:29
Speaker
And that was a humongous deal. It brought so much media attention to the company. They sold so many comic books because they killed Superman. So it's a great business idea to make everyone think you're killing Batman because you get the same thing, you know? That's true. And around the same time, DC was hyping up their soon to be released and also written by Grant Morrison crossover Final Crisis.
00:10:58
Speaker
In doing so, they put out a series called Countdown, which was largely a disaster, but still had some elements that tied directly to what was happening with Batman. In issue zero, the Joker is visited by Batman in Arkham, where he deals a dead man's hand with the deck of cards that he's allowed to play with. As Batman asks him about a person or organization called the Black Glove.
00:11:21
Speaker
The Joker tells him that some very, very bad people have decided to hurt you. Hurt you so bad you'll never recover. Because they can't. Because they think you deserve it. The Dead Man's Hand, as he deals the cards red and black, is missing a finger. That last fatal card. So Batman is unintimidated by all of this and just tells the Joker, let them come. All of that is just set up. That's all background stuff for Batman R.I.P. Yeah, yeah.
00:11:50
Speaker
And we've talked about some of the other crises that DC has done throughout the years. Yeah, there's so many crises. It's like they've had an existential crisis. They've had a mid-life crisis. They probably had an infantile crisis. There's even an identity crisis. Oh, that's the other one I couldn't think of. I literally have that on my other children. I had to make up baby crises instead of identity. So final crisis is
00:12:21
Speaker
Not the final crisis. It's very optimistic of them to think that it was. It is a direct sequel thematically to a lot of the other like the crisis on Infinite Earths and Infinite Crisis. The actual events of the story have nothing really to do with those other crises but like
00:12:46
Speaker
they take the elements of the red skies and this world ending event and they do something else with it. So it's not plot wise, doesn't matter in the grand scheme of those things, but thematically it's why it's called final crisis.
00:13:05
Speaker
It is also not a very good story, mostly because they told half of it in the Final Crisis story itself and half of it in other comic books. So it's really complicated. Yeah.
00:13:21
Speaker
I mean, that's a lot of comics. I can't be too mad at them, but I also understand. All right, so as we get into Batman R.I.P., I'm going to let you know, mostly what I am going to be doing is just kind of recapping the entire story. Feel free to stop me at any point, throw in whatever you want to say. I have gone over the entire storyline of Batman R.I.P. and just kind of told you the main things that happen in it.
00:13:52
Speaker
It may sound like I'm getting a little granular, but that's because a lot of this actually means something later on, or is paying off stuff that happened before. Okay. So let's get into Act 1.
Act 1: The Black Glove's Influence
00:14:04
Speaker
In the first issue, titled Midnight in the House of Hurt, it opens with rain falling from a crimson sky, with the caption stating that it is six months from the present.
00:14:15
Speaker
The red motif is important to the story, but it is also an important element for longtime DC fans, since red skies often indicated a crisis, like crisis on Infinite Earths, or what will be coming later, the final crisis. Yeah. Batman and Robin are perched on a building draped in shadows when Batman yells out, you're wrong, Batman and Robin will never die.
00:14:39
Speaker
I almost, when you said that they were perched, I was gonna be like, like owls, but then I was like, but there are bats. It has to be perched like bats. They actually kind of, I would say more, they do are, they are perched way more like owls than they are like bats. They're not like hanging upside down or anything. They're like gargoyles. Isn't it so disappointing that they'll never properly be able to hang like bats, like, realistically? Well, it's also like,
00:15:09
Speaker
I can't think of a reason why they would, you know? Cool. But it's not cool unless you can properly defy gravity and pull. Because if they did it now, you could be like, oh, we'll do grapple shoes. And it's like, all right, that's cool. But that doesn't mean their cape's going to just fly right past their head. And then they're going to look goofy. I want just full-on, like, cocoon.
00:15:36
Speaker
That's what I want. That would be interesting. I mean, Batman has done the whole hanging upside down thing in like, I think he did it in one of the Christopher Nolan movies, but they- I can't remember, but he needs to do more than that with Christopher Nolan. They do it very like briefly. And I think that's the right amount of time to do it because otherwise it's like, oh, this is silly.
00:15:58
Speaker
I would love a full scene though. I would love a full scene. A full dialogue. Just like hanging like Spider-Man does and just having a conversation with everyone. And you slowly just see like their chins and mouth. Everything just starts to go pink. That would be interesting.
00:16:19
Speaker
I would have loved it. I would have loved it, but I will settle for owl bats instead, I guess. It's fine. Whatever. So immediately following this scene, we are brought back to the current day. So that scene takes place six months from now. All you see is Batman and Robin, and Batman yells, you're wrong. Batman and Robin will never die. You immediately come back to the present day, and we see Le Bossu. I apologize to any French speakers. I am very bad at this.
00:16:49
Speaker
Lebasu is a hunchback being courted by the Black Glove. He murders a man on their doorstep to test their claims of unlimited power. Basically just chops a guy up and says, haha, I killed him on the front steps. What are you going to do about it? The organization had already started the cover up before Lebasu had even entered the building. The scene establishes just how much hold Black Glove has over the reigns of authority and power in major cities.
00:17:16
Speaker
Basically like, look, we're so powerful, we can take care of what would ostensibly put away any normal person. Right. We then cut immediately to Alfred and Robin trying to convince Bruce to take it easy after his recent four-minute death at the hands of the Bat Devil. While he agrees to lay off the black glove case, he still takes the Batmobile out into the city to fight crime. During his night out, he stops a car before it hits a homeless man and then gives him a couple hundred dollars.
00:17:45
Speaker
It does always seem like every Batman story is like, whoa, Bruce, take it easy. And then he's like, oh, no. And then something will happen. And then he'll be like, OK, maybe I will. But then he never does. Well, this this particular era in Batman comics is around the time where Batman was just becoming
00:18:09
Speaker
They come up with the idea of the Bat God. He is just so good at everything that you just can't beat him, right? And I think in the hands of a lesser writer, that would be just silly and awful. In the hands of Grant Morrison, it's silly and amazing. I am all for it. It works for me.
00:18:36
Speaker
So he stops this car from hitting a homeless person and then tosses the homeless person a couple hundred dollars like, hey, I got your Batman. You know, because he Batman's cool like that. Yeah. Batman just got big hundos. Right. And when he returns to the Batcave, he enters Wayne Manor and makes his way to his master bedroom where Jezebel Jett is waiting for him. She has fully entered his life as Batman by this point. She's in it for both sides of him.
00:19:05
Speaker
Oh, so she knows. Yeah, she finds out and she's cool with it. OK. You know, or at least by now she's cool with it. And I don't know how you couldn't be. I mean, I can't stop. I mean, you could try, but. It's. I don't know. That's a lot of energy. Yeah, that's a lot of equipment you'd have to persuade him to get rid of. And it's like that's an investment right there. And it's a lot of therapy.
00:19:34
Speaker
So much. So much there. But he would probably be the only one to have concerns to cover all. That's true. Yeah. Anyway, she's accepted. While all of this is happening, Robin and Alfred discuss Damien and whether or not he really is Bruce's son. The Alfred reveals that Bruce did run a paternity test, but that he wanted to tell Robin when the time was right.
00:20:02
Speaker
So later, Bruce takes Jezebel to his parents' grave and they discuss the obligations they both have that will put them basically in opposite ends of the world. And before she leaves, she hands Bruce an invitation that she was recently given from an elite group of incredibly rich people, inviting them to the Dance Macabre themed party being held by the Black Glove. Over in Arkham Asylum,
00:20:31
Speaker
Lebasu has infiltrated the staff in order to get close to the Joker. The first issue ends with Lebasu presenting an invitation from the Black Glove to which the Joker immediately imagines a massacre within the asylum. So we're setting the stage for what is to come.
Act 2: Batman's Investigation
00:20:49
Speaker
The second issue of the series starts with Batman taking down a costumed criminal in the sewers of Gotham while demanding to know who the Black Glove is.
00:20:57
Speaker
discussing this with Commissioner Gordon, Batman questions the specific costume the criminal was wearing and if the person was an out of towner. If so, is there a bigger purpose or are they just taking advantage of the power vacuum left from Batman taking out most of the major criminals? He's got a lot of questions about like, am I just paranoid or is the black glove really this strong? Yeah.
00:21:22
Speaker
Gordon mentions that they looked into the black glove and all that they could find was an old movie of the same name.
00:21:30
Speaker
This is a movie produced by Mayhew and starring Mangrove Pierce about a group of powerful men that try to corrupt others. These are the two men that were largely involved with the Black Love storyline from the previous episode. John Mayhew was the person who was producing these movies and Mangrove Pierce was the actor in it.
00:21:55
Speaker
and there was a bunch of like bunch of bullshit where they were they were at odds with each other yeah they're really so i know the black love is really powerful and all that but it's very silly to just start doing crime based off a movie you made um just real goofy i'm pretty sure i don't know if you've ever heard about the kidnapping of chowchilla no like
00:22:22
Speaker
Oh my God. I just learned about it on another podcast, but it was basically, I think it was in the late seventies. Um, a school bus was apprehended by a group of criminals and they basically like kidnapped the whole bus, um, and hid them for like a really large ransom. And thankfully like everybody, they, they broke out of wherever they were hiding.
00:22:53
Speaker
They were basically hidden in this bunker almost at the quarry. They all made it out thanks to some kids and the bus driver and got to safety and they found the criminals. But the way they found the criminals was because they had all of their notes on how to do the crime
00:23:13
Speaker
They like left it. They forgot to burn it, which is one of their notes. They forgot to get rid of it. But it was a hundred, like, it was these like shitty, rich guys that just like wanted more money. And they tried to get into the film industry before they did this crime, but they wrote this movie about like this kind of thing. And they were like, what if we just did this?
00:23:39
Speaker
And clearly it didn't go well. So it's it's really weirdly parallel to that for me. Well, this so they from what I can figure out, the the Black Love movie seems to be like a reference in real life to convoluted mystery movies from the 40s, like The Big Sleep. Right. Yeah. So there's a rumor within the comic book that Mayhew tried to frame Pierce for his wife's murder.
00:24:07
Speaker
And that's part of the plot of The Big Sleep. So it kind of seems like that's where Morrison is going with this. I can't find anything that confirms that. It just seems like that's what's going on because it's pretty similar, right? Yeah. Regardless, Batman starts to investigate the movie and mentions to Alfred that one of his black casebooks is missing.
00:24:33
Speaker
The Black Casebook, we mentioned in the last episode, that's full of the weird adventures in it. So Alfred mentions that he has been putting these cases into the computer and probably left it on the desk before changing the subject to Batman's wounds. Bruce asks for Tim, that is Robin, but Alfred reveals that Robin had left two days earlier due to his frustration over Damien's paternity.
00:24:58
Speaker
This interaction keeps hammering home that Batman is starting to be out of touch with his own life. But he quickly lets Alfred know that he is having Jezebel over for dinner and that he intends to cook. He asks Alfred to take the night off. He wants to make a nice night for Jezebel, especially because they're about to be pulled apart. And there's all this black glove bullshit going on. So he sends Alfred on his way.
00:25:21
Speaker
I might not be able to be a good dad or a good, I don't know, mentor, but I can at least try and cook a chicken. There you go.
00:25:34
Speaker
Well, he mentions in the comic book, like, if you come back and you smell burning, it's just because I tried to cook. So I don't even think he's that good of a cook. Oh, no, he's too co-dependent. When he had someone take care of him his entire goddamn life, you know? I know. He learned how to fight really good, not how to cook a chicken. Not how to take care of yourself. Right. Which, uh, what is five?
00:26:01
Speaker
So elsewhere, the Black Glove assembles to discuss their plan to crush Batman. Dr. Hurt lets them know that this won't be easy, but the idea is to destroy his spirit. During their conversation, it is revealed that the costumed criminal Batman stopped earlier had Librium, a powerful sedative and hypnotic medication, on the blade that he used to stab Batman with. Hurt claims that this will make him more susceptible to the trigger phrase that he implanted years ago. We're starting to see how this is all kind of connecting now.
00:26:31
Speaker
Right? Yes. Back at the Batcave, Batman introduces Jezebel to his lair. In discussing the black glove, Bruce tells her to stay away as he knows that they are coming close. He tells her that she is the best thing that's happened to him in a long time, and he can't risk her involvement. She said that she has fallen in love with Batman as well as Bruce. Wow. Accepting both sides of your partner is very important. Good job, comic books.
00:27:01
Speaker
Later, Gordon visits the mayor's office to defend Bruce Wayne against recent allegations that he is schizophrenic. This is all coming out just because he's been erratic recently. Yeah, and then I guess that fits because then he's also just like, my memory and I remember weird things. Right. Sure.
00:27:20
Speaker
So demanding evidence, the mayor provides documents that were found in a locker during a recent bomb scare that include allegations that Thomas Wayne, Bruce's father, was an alcoholic and user of hard drugs. It also included evidence that Bruce Wayne may be the son of an affair between Martha and Alfred. And finally, a photo containing John Mayhew, Mangrove Pierce, Marshall Lamar, Alfred Pennyworth,
00:27:46
Speaker
and Thomas and Martha Wayne, the latter of which has a brain-dead expression and needle tracks. I forgot that this was only an audible form of media. Oh my god, an affair with Alfred. Wow. I mean, we all knew Alfred could get it, but damn. What a time.
00:28:16
Speaker
Oh, that's crazy. I never even thought of the concept of Alfred having children. I don't know why. This is one of those things where it's like, I'm not a fan of it for Batman, but it's an interesting idea.
00:28:36
Speaker
You know, it's weird. I'm not a fan of it for Batman, but I'm a fan of it for Alfred. Alfred needs something. I mean, he's always just helping. Alfred needs something. Alfred needs someone. I'm sure he has plenty of hobbies because he has plenty of tasks to do. But he needs somebody. He needs someone to talk with and just be like, oh, he won't believe the day I've had it.
00:29:02
Speaker
He needs, you know, he needs like a Gertrude or, or a Gary. I don't know something along those lines. Yeah. So a good old person name that starts with a G is what I see perhaps a Gail. I don't know.
00:29:20
Speaker
So after all of these revelations, the mayor then reveals that Alfred used to be a stage actor and that a detective hired by Martha's family had compiled all this info and then went missing 25 years earlier. Apparently, Martha's family claimed that Thomas Wayne had her murdered and then faked his own death. So. Damn. We're already getting into some like crazy shit. And this is kind of. I'm now wanting just a comic series of Alfred.
00:29:49
Speaker
I mean, they did that TV show. I didn't really watch it, but- Oh, I just want a comic series. I don't need a TV show. I got too many things I gotta commit to. Just give me a book and I can just go flip, flip, flip, flip, flip.
00:30:03
Speaker
And this is kind of like, this is one of the things that I thought was really interesting about the Batman movie with Robert Pattinson is a lot of this kind of stuff kind of comes up in that movie. Not the same way. Yeah, because they kind of demonize like Thomas Wayne. Yeah. Like I've been seeing a lot of that recently and I don't know. It's not just with the movie. It's also in, I think it's in The White Knight too.
00:30:32
Speaker
I actually haven't read The White Knight, so I can't speak to that. Oh, well in The White Knight, it's like, they're like, oh my God, Thomas Wayne, like what if he was like a Nazi supporter? Or, yeah, because there is like a point where Bruce Wayne partners with Freeze for medical purposes, because he's trying to get like,
00:31:00
Speaker
They're trying to fix somebody. I know they're always trying to fix Mr. Freeze's wife, but Alfred was sick, the legendary Alfred. He's sick because obviously Batman is so dependent on him. He's like, I need Alfred to stay alive. He goes to Mr. Freeze and apparently Mr. Freeze had hired
00:31:21
Speaker
or Thomas Wayne had hired the freezes and stuff. I'm describing this horribly, but basically they were making weapons for Wayne industries using Nazi people. That's the other place I had seen that. So it's the hat trick right now of bad Thomas Wayne, but okay, Bruce. I mean, I just recently read Infinite Frontier and it very heavily features
00:31:48
Speaker
the Batman from Flashpoint and that is Thomas Wayne. And it's not like he's not like a super good guy. He's not the worst. You know what I mean? Like he's very like he's an angry dude and he causes a lot of problems because of that. But I mean in that universe his wife becomes the Joker so and his kid died. So you've a lot to be angry about.
00:32:14
Speaker
Yeah, that is a lot. Those are a lot of feelings to impart. Right.
Bruce Wayne's Mental Struggles and Allegations
00:32:20
Speaker
So back at the manor, Jezebel tells Bruce that his family, including Robin, is concerned about him. She claims that he isn't well and that everyone is too afraid to tell him. She says he could use his money and influence in other ways to help the world and that she is also worried about his mental health.
00:32:37
Speaker
After considering this, Bruce states that the black glove knows all of his vulnerabilities and that she could be used as a weapon to make him doubt himself, which does not sound paranoid at all. He details that the dead man's hand, that the Joker dealt for him and the various meanings that this could take. So when the Joker dealt the dead man's hand, it was two eights and two aces that were laid out. The eighth letter of the alphabet is H,
00:33:06
Speaker
And these were given as two reds and two black. So the Joker spelled out ha ha in the cards. Yeah.
00:33:15
Speaker
Batman continues by describing the different fortune telling and numerological ways that this hand could be used to convey a message. He tells her he has to understand these messages otherwise people could die. This speech caused Jezebel to question whether or not the black love was really just a way for Bruce to defeat himself. What if Batman was the black love and truly unwell?
00:33:39
Speaker
I want to go back to the haha. That purely could have just been the Joker just being like, hey, I mean, haha is something for me. There is a point later in the book where the Joker he kind of he's he's both talking up Batman and making fun of him by I forget that the specific name, but there is a there's a disorder that you can have where you look for meaning in everything.
00:34:07
Speaker
And he kind of says that about Batman. Oh, 100%. The Joker does these things because he knows Batman's looking for it. Not necessarily because that's what he would normally do. Yeah. I wish I could remember the name of the thing. He just spells it out. And I was like, yeah, that checks out. Yeah. They also just love each other. But that's a different podcast. That's true.
00:34:36
Speaker
So Batman starts to defend himself against the accusation that maybe he is the one who's fighting against himself. He starts to defend himself by discussing the isolation chamber and hurts involvement before he starts to question his own sanity. Could he really be his own enemy? He turns to the bat computer to try to piece together all of the evidence of everything that has happened and hopefully it would give him the answers. As he looks at the screen, all he sees is static.
00:35:07
Speaker
Jezebel says that she's scared because there is no static. She sees pictures of graffiti. When Batman asks what it says, she reads, ZUR and ARR. Bruce immediately responds, no, not now, I'm not ready. He starts to collapse as an emergency call from the commissioner comes in and the black glove invades the cave. Later,
00:35:31
Speaker
Alfred returns home from a movie to see the cave is burning and he is attacked by Le Basieux and his henchmen. And that's how we end act one. Gotcha. So Zarinar was his like trigger word. Right. Right. And that so that just takes Batman out of commission and we don't really know what happens to to Alfred right away. The last page is all of the henchmen
00:36:01
Speaker
like beating him while he's down. Oh, I want to make a guess. And it's going to be so outlandish. But it's going to be Alfred's, the new Batman. So you make a joke. Alfred, not now. No, stop. No, no, no. Don't get me so hopeful. Not in this. But one of the things that I thought was so after all of this, there was a comic book that came out called Whatever Happens at the Cape Crusader or something like that. Yeah.
00:36:31
Speaker
And it takes place in this like weird other world where like everyone's visiting Batman's funeral and you get different stories from across the multiverse. And one of them is Alfred was all of the villains in order to give Batman something to do.
00:36:51
Speaker
So Bruce was going out every night and he was like, ah man, I'm not really making a difference. So Alfred starts, he becomes the Joker and then he hires people to be the Riddler and things like that. It's all just to give Batman a mission. That is so weirdly wholesome. I know, right? Oh my God, Alfred.
00:37:16
Speaker
Alfred needs a partner, just someone to put his, or a pet, just someone to put all this love to. Because he's got too much love on one person that goes to insane lengths. Like we need to divide it so he becomes a more reasonable person. But I love him.
00:37:36
Speaker
One of my favorite things that comes out of it, we won't get into it when we talk about this, but if you continue with Grant Morrison's run on Batman after where we are in it, or where we will be in it, Damien starts adopting animals. So you get like the bat cave ends up getting a cow.
00:37:58
Speaker
And like all of these different animals, they're like the bat cow and the bat cat and stuff like that. And so Alfred has to take care of this menagerie that Damien put together. It's so good. I love it. Oh, that's so great. It's the bat cow. The cow is so cute. It's wonderful.
00:38:21
Speaker
Um, okay. I gotta read this one day, but sorry. Please spoil it for me and then I'll just forget and read. I mean, you can always, we could go through this and then you can just literally pick up the next volume after that. And then you can get all the animals, you know? I also want to just see it all happen, but go on.
Robin's Encounter and Bruce's Amnesia
00:38:41
Speaker
It's worth it. Do the podcast.
00:38:44
Speaker
The second act of the story starts with Tim Drake, the most recent Robin at this point, sitting in a shack and reading the missing black casebook that Batman had mentioned earlier. So it wasn't Alfred. He stole it. He learns about the Batman of Ziran-R and the bat radio that he used as a crime-fighting device. So it looks like a radio. It's called a radio.
00:39:08
Speaker
No idea what it does. He just uses it to fight crime. He loves that. Batman's own writing questions his sanity, and he mentions that he needs Robin to ground him with his humor and forthrightness. So even Batman is like, I don't know if I went to this other planet and teamed up with a Batman from there. Maybe I'm going crazy.
00:39:31
Speaker
Tim's reading is interrupted by members of the black glove attempting an ambush, but his training tips him off and Robin escapes on his motorcycle. Cool. Elsewhere, a homeless man mumbles to himself in an apparent conversation with a bat fairy. This homeless person is the one that Batman... That got a hundred dollars, right? Right. He then stumbles on to an amnesic Bruce Wayne.
00:39:58
Speaker
Mistaking him for a junkie, the homeless man known as Honor Jackson tries to kick Bruce out before realizing that he recognizes him from somewhere. Yeah. Because he recognizes this is the man that gave him a couple hundred dollars. Yeah. While Honor Jackson helps him to his feet, Bruce has flashbacks to Simon Hurt arriving in the Batcave to inject him with crystal meth and heroin. Oh my god.
00:40:24
Speaker
Jackson decides to take Bruce with him across town since he has a major like mission and Bruce Wayne has a lot on muscle and he needs protection while he's on his way Yeah, so in another part of the city Nightwing is fighting off costume criminals before Robin contacts them and asks to meet Robin says he first must shake the club of villains before they can discuss Batman So all of these things are going on at the same time. Everyone's kind of going something big is happening
00:40:54
Speaker
Yeah. Bruce and Honor Jackson make their way through the city, begging for more money as they go. Some armed thugs try to rob them, but Bruce defeats them easily. Afterward, Jackson mentions that Bruce is looking much better than he did before in comparison to a mystery man on TV who wanders from town to town helping people but needs help this time.
00:41:16
Speaker
Bruce starts to question his own identity. He realizes that he has the accent of an educated rich man, but he doesn't have any money. He deduces that he can't have been on the streets for long since his hair was recently cut, but he has no memory of who he is. To cheer him up, Honor gives him what he called his best friend until he stood on it one day, but that if Bruce were to get it fixed, it would be his best friend one day too. We don't really get to see what it is.
00:41:43
Speaker
It's just a thing. It's just a thing that Bruce accepts. It's like wrapped in like a cloth. Cool. At the end of their adventure, they wind up at a liquor store. Honor tells Bruce that he had to keep him walking all day to keep him clear, like keep his mind going and to get all of the junk out of his system. Right. That was really the mission was we're going to go to this liquor store, but it's really just so that you don't collapse from the crystal meth and heroin in your body.
00:42:12
Speaker
Yeah, and now we'll give you alcohol. He continues by telling him later in the day he needs to meet Loni Lincoln to decide if he wants to rise or fall, and that he must make the decision with a clear head. His liquor bought, Honor and Wayne sit and look across the lake. Honor tells Wayne that he's never done anything he was proud of, but now he's saved one life, and that's worth something after all. When Wayne turns to respond,
00:42:42
Speaker
Honor has disappeared. Bruce finds Loni Lincoln and says Honor sent him. Lincoln tells him that Honor is dead, having spent $100 just the day before on heroin and overdosed on it. This is like some symbolic shit, right? Like, oh, my Honor has sent me here to rise to the occasion. It is then that he realizes that he's in crime alley.
00:43:12
Speaker
the death place of his parents, Lincoln then offers him heroin. So this is where you get the, like, are you gonna rise or fall? Are you gonna, like, give in to this, like... Yeah. Since you have no idea who you are, you don't have anything that's driving you except your innate sense to do a particular thing. And it's also, are you gonna rise and get high again, or are you gonna fall and just deal with the consequences of withdrawal?
00:43:41
Speaker
Robin then goes to the checkpoint where he was supposed to meet Nightwing and realizes that Nightwing's not there. In Arkham, two doctors discuss their newest arrival. They believe that he is a supervillain who fought against the Musketeer, but it is quickly revealed to be Nightwing, who has been heavily sedated. Oh. So this is a multi-tiered attack. Yeah. They've gone after Bruce as Bruce, and now they're trying to take out his family.
00:44:11
Speaker
Yeah, because they already went after Tim. Got it. No, they can't. Oh, wait. No, they already attacked Alfred. I forgot. Back in the Batcave, Dr. Hurt donned the bat costume that Thomas Wayne wore during the masquerade years earlier. Alfred is tied to a chair bloodied from his beatings.
00:44:32
Speaker
Kurt claims that the dark night is dead and his spirit is broken. And all during this time, he keeps basically saying like, you know who I am, you know who I am. And Alfred's like, no. Alfred's like, sorry, I've lived too much of an exciting life having sex with other people's wives and being an actor. I don't know who the hell you are, random man.
00:44:57
Speaker
Back in Crime Alley, Bruce repeats Zurnar before stating, it would be easier to consider this all a dream and reveals the broken piece of equipment that Honor gave him earlier as the bat radio, the device used by the Batman of Zurnar.
Batman of Zurr-En-Arrh and Psychological Battles
00:45:10
Speaker
Bruce has fixed it and sewn together a makeshift multicolored bat suit. As he stands, he declares himself the Batman of Zurnar and Bat-mite appears behind him. So I don't know if you remember the Batman of Zurnar costume, because it's fucking wild.
00:45:27
Speaker
It's the purple one. Right. I'm looking it up again. But and I remember Bat might as well. So I'm glad that he's back. And this is this is one of the things that I really liked about it because I was like, I love the silly aspects of Batman, but it doesn't quite work with like certain stories. And this makes it work. All of this goes.
00:45:52
Speaker
Blows my mind. I'm a fan of it still. I love it still. The costume's great, right? The purple's so good. Oh my God. There is an action figure of it, but it's when he's unmasked and he looks scary. But I'm just going to go back to this one photo where the purple looks good.
00:46:14
Speaker
Oh, this one's fun too. It's got everybody's face in it. I really want Robert Pattinson to run around in this costume yelling, I am vengeance. Oh, I think he would have a great time with just like an 11 year old boy running around with him. I'm Robin. Could I play Robin? I think I look enough like an 11 year old boy to play Robin. I think I could do it. I want to do that.
00:46:42
Speaker
I don't work with Robert Pattinson and Zoe Kravitz. I think they're fun. But that's besides the point. Anyway. So in the next issue, Batman has fully given in to being the Batman of Ziranar. And he hallucinates gargoyles speaking to him. So he's perched on top of a building with other gargoyles. And they're talking. He's howling. Yeah, he's howling. He sees a grid around Gotham that he describes as a machine designed to make Batman.
00:47:11
Speaker
During this, Batman reveals that Batman has had a tracking device implanted in his body, so he pulls his tooth out and ties it to a pigeon in order to fool the enemy. How did he know it was in his tooth? So we're gonna get into this a little bit, but basically, he is kind of conscious of everything that's going on, but he's subconsciously conscious.
00:47:41
Speaker
Well, now that he's like accepted like who he is. Right. I guess he's like the more memories are coming out. So he just magically knows that he's been like tooth chipped. Yeah, basically. I mean, we'll get a little bit more into why. I'll get down with it. That's fine. I just didn't know like who put the chip there. Do we know? Yeah, that would the black glove. They were trying to like keep track of him for their weird game.
00:48:07
Speaker
Right. And Dr. Hurt runs the Black Globe. Right. So later, Batman describes to Batmite that his mind is operating far faster and clearer than it has before. So Batmite fills him in. Years ago, Batman was exposed to Professor Milo's gas weapon and hallucinated an adventure in a place called Zurin-R with two Batman, himself, who was invulnerable and immortal, and his double, a man named Talano, with advanced technology.
00:48:38
Speaker
Dr. Hurt used this, choosing Zurin-R as the phrase to shut down Batman. However, Batman prepared a separate Batman identity to be activated in the event of a massive psychic attack. The Batman of Zurin-R is his mental backup to ensure that he wouldn't be defeated. Elsewhere in the city, Robin puts a frantic call in to the Knight and the Squire, asking for assistance.
00:49:05
Speaker
Upon getting the message, they decide to put out the call to all of the others. So we're starting to see how this is forming. Robin's still out there and he's like, we need help. And we're going to reach out to the Club of Heroes. At the docks, several of the Club of Villains are importing guns into the city when Batman attacks.
00:49:26
Speaker
As one of the villains pleads, Batman says the bat radio can see through his deceptions, to which the villain remarks that he's just holding a broken radio. Batman responds by beating him with a baseball bat. This is my favorite version. He's just fucking bomb. Where does he get that, though? He doesn't have pockets. Oh, he's just carrying it. It's in his cape.
00:49:49
Speaker
It's just in his cape, so his cape has pockets. Do you know how inconvenient that would be flying around with a cape? It's gonna come back at you at some... He must have the most bruised thighs. The most bruised thighs. I would say, yeah. I mean, look, it's on... If you got a bat whappin' against you? It's on theme. He is Batman. That's true. Oh, wait, that's even better. He's double Batman.
00:50:19
Speaker
Andy's Purple, I'm really happy with this. I'm telling you, this is one of my favorite stories. It's just all over the place. Yeah, I understand. At Wayne Manor, Commissioner Gordon and his team arrive, hoping to talk to Bruce Wayne about the Black Lives story that his father was a drug addict. And as they are let in, an officer spots a card with the insignia of El Sombrero, seconds before getting shot in the head with three arrows. So El Sombrero is one of the villains from the Club of Villains.
00:50:46
Speaker
A loud speaker announces that Wayne Manor has been booby trapped. Back in the Batcave, Dr. Hurt, still wearing Thomas Wayne's bat costume, starts taunting Alfred by claiming that he is Thomas Wayne. Oh, so he's just trying to gaslight people all the time. Alfred protests that he can't be Thomas Wayne before Hurt declares that he has changed his identity. He then sends the club of villains out to find Robin.
00:51:12
Speaker
Back at Arkham, Lebasu's minions help to take over the facility as he prepares to give Nightwing a lobotomy. As the crew runs in gallons and gallons of red and black paint, boxes of red and black roses, and a captured Jezebel jet, Lebasu tells the Joker that the dance of death is about to begin. Joker reveals that he has painted his nails red and black for the occasion. And that's the end of Act Two.
00:51:37
Speaker
So we're checking in with everybody. Batman's crazy, beating people up with a baseball bat. Nightwing is about to get lobotomized. Commissioner Gordon is under attack at Wayne Manor. Alfred is tied up and bloody in the bat cave.
00:51:55
Speaker
And Robin is being hunted by the club of villains. So it's not looking good. Oh, and Jezebel Jett was captured. I just skipped all over her. So it's not looking good. No, you mentioned it. Oh, did I? Yeah, like a minute ago. Okay, so everything's going bad. It's all, it's terrible. The third act of the R.I.P story starts with Dr. Hurt welcoming the rich members of the Black Love to Arkham as he promises a fight between Batman and the Joker.
00:52:23
Speaker
Batman arrives outside of the asylum with Batmite. When Batmite questions how colorful his new suit is, Batman responds by stating, it demonstrates total confidence and that Robin is always dressed this way. Which, I mean, he's got a fucking point. Robin runs around like red and green and yellow. True. Batmite reminds Bruce that the Batman of Zurnar was always a temporary solution and that he can't run at the speed he's going all night.
00:52:47
Speaker
As Batman enters the building, Bat-Mite tells him that he can't go with him. He is a manifestation of the last fading voice of reason and that reason has no place in Arkham. As Batman continues, he asks if Bat-Mite really is an imp from the fifth dimension or a figment of his imagination, to which Mite responds that imagination is the fifth dimension. Wow. I think this is fun.
00:53:16
Speaker
He doesn't really answer anything. No, it doesn't. I looked up Batman also. Such a tiny baby. He's so cute. And I wish that it reminds me a lot of like when the Flintstones had like the little alien guy that floated around half the time. Like it's just weird. It looks like some kind of spooky doo doo. Yeah. It's cute. The Joker.
00:53:40
Speaker
then disfigures Lebasu and murders another villain before making his way through Arkham. So the Joker's now out and he's like not really playing... And he's doing what he foresaw. Yeah, he's not playing ball with black love. He's doing his thing. Yeah, that's pretty on brand for him. Back at the manor, Commissioner Gordon finds himself in a trap left by the club of villains before being rescued by Talia, Damian, and the League of Assassins who have all arrived to help find Batman.
00:54:09
Speaker
which I think is pretty fucking cool. I think that's funny that Talia just magically came back. She's just wonderful. She's one of my favorite Batman characters and I feel like they don't use her very... They used her in The Dark Knight Rises and I think she was terrible. Yeah, I think that's why I'm kind of hesitant to be like, I like her.
00:54:31
Speaker
didn't really care about her character in that movie. And that's the only reference I really have. She's quite a badass. And if you continue on with Grant Morrison's, she has like a, she has a huge role. She is terrible, but she's great. She's a wonderful villain. Okay. That's a good way to put it. Yeah.
00:54:54
Speaker
As Bruce makes his way through the asylum, he yells out to the Joker that he finally put together the meaning behind the dead man's hand. The diamonds and clubs symbolize the organization of rich people. The hearts and spades represented love and death, red and black, cupid and the devil. And as he says all of this, he arrives at where they're holding Jezebel Jett. She is strapped to a chair in a room full of red and black flowers. If the red and black petals touch, they become deadly. Bruce breaks into the room and is overcome by the toxins that surround him.
00:55:25
Speaker
As he starts to pass out, he notices the red and black tiles on the floor and Jezebel stands, putting on a pair of black gloves. Before he passes out, Joker asks him, now do you get it? So we got another twist. Jezebel's with the black glove. I had a feeling she'd do something or they'd break up somehow. Always happens.
00:55:50
Speaker
But I, this was a thing where I was reading it at the time. I did not expect her to be part of the black glove. I expected something big to happen, but maybe it was just like, I wasn't, I didn't have that in my mind, but like there wasn't something I thought. I had a feeling because it was like, Oh, I got an invitation from the black glove. My brain was like,
00:56:14
Speaker
She probably already took it. Or if she didn't and he told her, no, it would have been like, well, I'm going to do it anyway. I am a strong, independent person and I'm going to do my own choices. This is what I want to do. So we are going to learn a little bit more about her and her relationship to the black glove. So there's like, she does seem like an interesting character. Um, I would agree. And I, I,
00:56:42
Speaker
I'll hold off on saying anything more. Cool. An important note for these last few issues is that it's heavily implied that Dr. Hurt is either Thomas Wayne or the devil. So he keeps saying he's Thomas Wayne, and there's a lot of hints here and there that maybe he's just the devil, maybe Satan. The Joker comments- I mean, imagination is the fifth dimension. Right. The Joker-
00:57:09
Speaker
The Joker comments that he understood why Dr. Hurt hated Batman, and that's one of the reasons he decided to go along with the plan to hurt him. That's one reason Batman became obsessed with the hole in things. He wants to know, is he at the mercy of the devil? Like, how can you explain everything if not for something supernatural? Right. The next issue starts with Batman, now in his regular costume, buried alive in a coffin.
00:57:38
Speaker
He has woken, which, one of my favorite things about this, actually, is that that means someone changed his costume before they buried it. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's odd. It was probably Jezebel. She was like, I do not like this look for you. We need to do better for you. Someone put in his actual costume and buried it. So they had to have stripped him while he was unconscious. I'm sure he weighs a ton.
00:58:07
Speaker
put a new costume on him and then buried him. A tight costume. That's a lot of like, you know, the skinny jeans dance is alive with this costume. And you can't do that when you have all this dead weight. Have you ever seen the movie Days Then Confused? Yeah.
00:58:28
Speaker
One of my favorite little scenes in it, most people, I'm sure it doesn't really register as much of anything. There's a scene where these girls are putting on pants and one of them is using pliers while the other one's lying down to zip the pants up because they're so tight. It's one of my favorite scenes in the movie just because it's so funny and such a small thing.
00:58:52
Speaker
Makes sense too. It's the little thing. You gotta get creative or else you rip the belt loops. Right. And that's a bad day when you rip the belt loops. Yeah. That's how I lose all my favorite pants. I'm like, dang it. I'm trying to have been so strong on those belt loops.
Confrontation at Arkham
00:59:12
Speaker
So as Batman wakes up in the coffin, he realizes he's sort of back in his right mind.
00:59:22
Speaker
back to normal form. As he starts to figure out how to get out, his mind wanders back to just after the Thogel ritual where he is discussing his experience with a monk. The Thogel ritual is when he locked himself in a cave for a month or something. Yeah, the isolation thing. Yeah, it's a separate isolation thing from the isolation chamber that he was in. Yes, there were two different ones. Right. This one was supposed to get rid of all of the negative karma that he had so that he could be like a pure self.
00:59:52
Speaker
During this time, he became aware of the mental conditioning that Dr. Hurt gave him. And this gave him the idea for a secondary personality in the event of a breakdown. That's the Batman of Zorin-R. Ah. The monk tells him that he had already poisoned his tea. So he's going over this with a monk. And the monk says, I poisoned your tea, compliments of what he calls his dark master. And all throughout this scene, the monk's eyes are shown to be red.
01:00:21
Speaker
Bruce, however, reveals that he swapped their cups and the monk starts to die. So Batman revives the monk with an antidote and tells him to deliver a message. After the ritual, Batman is without fear, doubt, or weak spots. He is coming for the Dark Master and he will defeat him. Gotcha. I love that fight. Called a Princess Bride. That's exactly what I thought of, too.
01:00:47
Speaker
I'm just picturing the monk as just that inconceivable guy. I love that. Oh, bless. As the black glove starts their dinner, the Joker joins and decides he wants to place a wager. He claims double or nothing that Batman will dig his way out of the grave and come after them. The Joker says he's tried to destroy Batman for years and it never got him anywhere.
01:01:13
Speaker
As he does, one member of the black glove finds the bat radio that Bruce was carrying and realizes it's sending a signal. The bat radio connects to the bat computer and all of the power and Arkham goes out. The Joker vows he will collect his winning and he leaves the facility. Back in Gotham,
01:01:34
Speaker
Robin is fending off the club of villains when he is saved by the club of heroes. As Lobosu decides to finally continue with a lobotomizing Nightwing, he realizes the drugs have worn off and Nightwing gets free. Batman breaks free of the coffin and climbs to the surface, ready to bring the fight back to the Black Glove. And as the Joker tries to make a getaway by stealing an ambulance, he is run off the road by Damien and the Batmobile. All of the players have now converged on Arkham.
01:02:03
Speaker
So Batman interrupts the black glove only to find himself face to face with Jezebel Jett. During this, he explains that he always knew she was part of the trap. His love for her was real, but the moment she tried to convince him that she understood what drove him to be Batman, he became suspicious and realized that it was the bad in her that he was attracted to the entire time. Which kind of makes sense, like that's kind of his thing with Catwoman too, you know? Yeah, it's like you'll never understand. Yeah.
01:02:33
Speaker
Yeah. Batman reveals that her father was a member of the Black Love, and he won Jezebel and her mother in a wager 20 years prior. Oh, ew. Her father then murdered her mother, and the only prized possession she ever owned was a letter that her mother wrote to her before her death, which is why Batman stole it from her. He would never be able to put them in prison for their crimes, so they would need to be punished in other ways.
01:03:05
Speaker
Yeah, I like how vindictive he is here. He's petty. Petty Batman. To be fair, his fucking girlfriend just tried to kill him. That is very true. That is very, very true. It's also pretty rough to be bought, though. That's true, too. That may defy anything. They do mention she was really happy when her father was murdered.
01:03:34
Speaker
Like that was a good day for her. And that's when she ended up taking over the country and like running things her way, you know? Oh, okay. When Batman finally makes it to Dr. Hurt, it's revealed that the black love was part of the reason crime had been down in recent months. They were undermining his reason for being.
01:03:55
Speaker
They painted the walls with trigger phrases to prepare his brain for a mental assault, and finally, Hurt claims to Batman for the first time to be the real Thomas Wayne, his father, and that Bruce was supposed to be killed that night as well. Bruce refuses to believe it, and Hurt claims that the bat costume still fits him. If he weren't Hurt, then what is the alternative? Again, he intimates that he is the devil incarnate.
01:04:21
Speaker
Batman argues that he's actually Mangrove Pierce, the star of the Black Glove movie, who looks suspiciously like Thomas Wayne. After having an affair with John Mayhew's wife and being framed for her murder, he turned to the Black Glove. Hurt says that he skinned Mangrove alive and wore his face at the island party with the Club of Heroes. And I'm going to quote directly from Hurt now.
01:04:46
Speaker
He says, I am the hole in things, Bruce, the enemy, the piece that can never fit. There since the beginning. He continues to say that all of the documents that portray Wayne, the Waynes as drug addicts and criminals would go public unless Bruce gives up the cowl and decides to dedicate his life to the corruption of virtue. Bruce refuses and Dr. Hurt exclaims, then I curse the cape and cowl as you will soon. The next time you wear it will be the last.
01:05:16
Speaker
Hurt attempts to flee from a helicopter being flown by the Bat Devil, but Batman is able to hold on to the outside. In their struggle, the helicopter crashes. Nightwing is seen shortly after holding Batman's cape and cowl over the wreckage. Talia claims that she will handle the retribution. So we don't really see what happens to Batman, just that the helicopter crashes and just before the man who is either Thomas Wayne or the Devil, according to his own words, had cursed the cape and cowl.
01:05:47
Speaker
right i forgot that the back devil was still around i forgot that we didn't get rid of him um yeah he uh i don't know if they fit i don't remember i i wrote this a while ago i don't remember if they actually finish his story here but there are if you read morrison's run there are flashes to the future um and those flashes to the future are not like
01:06:12
Speaker
They're not set in stone. They're like kind of what ifs. And in those stories, Damien is Batman. And the Bat Devil is still around. Right. Gotcha. But moving forward, after all of this and Talia claiming that she's going to handle the retribution, the next scene shows Jezebel Jett's private plane taken down by an army of man bats. So.
01:06:37
Speaker
He's back! He's back! Yay! Oh, my favorite. And this is what I was going to say about Jezebel earlier. I really liked her character, but Morrison kind of like, I mean, they finished what they were trying to say with, with that character. And you could take them in other directions, but their main role in the story is done. So they just have to tell you kill them.
01:07:06
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I get it. They're interesting to this story. And like, I'm glad that they at least gave us like a little bit of backstory enough. Like understand why she was like there. So I can't be too mad. Right. So from here, the comic flashes forward six months. And we see Lebasu has set up a chop shop in Gotham and claims that this was the last time anyone for sure had laid eyes on Batman. So
01:07:35
Speaker
That helicopter crash six months prior was the last time anyone had like four. I mean, there had been maybe Batman sightings, but that was the last time anyone for sure had seen Batman. OK. As he moves to torture his newest victim, he states, no one can save you from this. Even Batman and Robin are dead. And at that moment, the bat signal shines through the window and a smile comes across the victim.
01:08:03
Speaker
So that's where you get, from the beginning of the story, Batman yelling, Batman and Robin will never die. We won't get more context to that until much later, and we're gonna go over that in the next episode, because that actually is a plot point in further issues. In an epilogue, we see that years ago, in Crime Alley, the Waynes are leaving the showing of the Mask of Zorro. Bruce, as a young boy, now this is when the
01:08:34
Speaker
This is when his parents die. Yeah. So as a young boy, Bruce wonders what it would be like if Zorro were to show up in Gotham. And as the criminal stalks closer to them, Bruce's father says, the sad truth is they'd probably throw someone like Zorro in Arkham. And the words start to blend together on the page until they become Zorran R. Oh my God, it's like Hodor. Yes.
01:09:02
Speaker
Oh my god. Ew. I love this. I love it and I hate it just because now I'm thinking of hold the door. No. But I like it because it's sort of like it's kind of like dream logic where everything kind of flows together and it becomes something else and it takes on like different meanings.
01:09:27
Speaker
Yeah, that's all very cool. I am a fan of it. I think it's very cool and creative. I'm also just saying, hold the door. Oh, wow. So that concludes Batman R.A.P. And there are a couple of issues that are largely set in Batman's mind that immediately follow this. But we don't really see Batman in full until Final Crisis, also written by Grant.
01:09:54
Speaker
Final Crisis is an interesting book, but not one that is highly regarded. I've read it a couple of times and I found it very confusing. In part, this is because it requires reading a few other books that aren't really part of Final Crisis as a whole. So some stuff happens without really an explanation in the book proper. And I think that is a sign of a bad event comic. If you have to pick up other books to understand the book you're reading, then you've done a bad job.
01:10:24
Speaker
The main idea is that Darkseid has found the anti-life equation and is amassing an all-out war on good. If you don't know who Darkseid is, he's basically Thanos for the DC universe. In fact, Thanos is kind of based on Darkseid. And the anti-life equation is, for all intents and purposes, just basically his version of like the Infinity Stones. It's... Is death juice? Yes.
01:10:48
Speaker
It's far too complicated to really dive into any really deep coverage of this, other than all you really need to know is that it relates to Batman in tangential ways. Darkseid captures Batman early on and tries to replicate what makes him such a formidable foe. He does this by trying to make clones of him that are filled with all of the trauma and knowledge that makes him tick.
01:11:18
Speaker
This, unfortunately, also leads to many of the clones going insane and trying to kill themselves. Oh, wow. Batman breaks free and making a once-in-a-lifetime exception to his rule shoots Darkseid with a gun.
01:11:34
Speaker
And now there's more, it's not just a gun, it's like a God killing gun, it's stupid. It's a super gun. Yeah, it is a super gun. Big gun. But before the bullet hits him, Darkseid releases the Omega Sanction, what he calls the death that is life. And it hits Batman. Superman finally breaks through Darkseid's forces just after the moment, only to find a corpse wearing the Batman costume. In the closing pages of the final issue, we see Bruce Wayne
01:12:04
Speaker
on a prehistoric earth wearing part of the Batman costume painting a bat symbol on a cave wall. That's it. That's all you know about like what the fuck happened to Bruce. There's a corpse wearing Batman's costume. And then later you see way back in prehistoric earth, a Batman cave painting. Okay. Interesting. Right. It's people were like, what? What is this? No one.
01:12:33
Speaker
It gets explained, but it's very complicated. Most of the Earth at this time believes Batman to be dead. This would dovetail into a series titled Battle for the Cowl, which we aren't really going to talk about. The only thing worth mentioning is that in Bruce's absence, Gotham spirals into chaos. Many of Batman's allies come to the conclusion that Gotham needs a Batman and they all fight over who it should be.
01:12:58
Speaker
This ends with Nightwing returning to the Batcave to fill in for Bruce. Tim Drake, the current Robin, takes on the new identity of Red Robin and starts an investigation into where Bruce might be as he doesn't really believe that Bruce is dead. Yeah. This leaves us with several questions. For one, how did Batman get to prehistoric Earth and why? For another, how does he get back? And most importantly for the topic of these episodes, where is Doctor Hurt?
01:13:28
Speaker
And who is he really? Is he the devil? Is he Thomas Wayne? Or is there another answer entirely? I think there's another answer entirely. Personally. I just have a feeling. We will learn more about these topics on the next episode of the show. Cool. You can find more information about all of this, including sources and recommended reading at comicallypadantic.com.
01:13:57
Speaker
So I broke last episode and this episode into two parts, mainly because I feel like the things that happen in RAP and to a lesser extent final crisis, like there are hints here as to what this is all about and like what Dr. Hurt is and like how that plays together.
01:14:21
Speaker
But if you read Morrison's run is broken into three distinct parts. There's this part that we just finished, the first two episodes. That's part one of his tale on Batman. Part two, we're going to cover all of in the next episode. And part of that is because there's a lot to it.
01:14:45
Speaker
But there's also a lot that like, if you're not reading it for like the tiny minutiae, you can cover big swaths of it with just saying, and then this happened. So that's how we're gonna fly through the second part easily. But it is worth reading all together. And then the third part we're not covering, and that is what I actually think you would like the most, but we're not gonna cover that. It's a lot of fun, it involves,
01:15:15
Speaker
I've told you a little bit in the past, that's Batman Incorporated. That's where there's just... Yeah, yeah, yeah. The whole thing, it's wonderful. Cool. Any thoughts on Batman, R.A.P., your final crisis as moving forward or Dr. Hurt in general? I think it just keeps reminding me that I like Batman. Even the goofy things like Alfred,
01:15:43
Speaker
loving this man too much and just Batman not stopping. It's because I don't want him to stop. And also it's just making me remember that I have to finish reading the White Knight, like whole series, which I'm now excited to do. And it's really propelling me to, last week I was like, oh, like I shouldn't buy any more comics yet. I need to like, you know, catch up on my reading, blah, blah, blah.
01:16:13
Speaker
And then every day I've been like, hmm, but like, what is the comic book today? And what if I can make it there? And now I'm just like, I need to go to the comic book store. So I went I went a couple of weeks ago and I I picked out things that I thought would be interesting. So I got a Power Rangers book, which was it was like a one off one shot. Yeah, it was really good. I think
01:16:44
Speaker
in part just because I've watched the show that it's based on, like the particular Power Rangers one. So I know a little bit about the backstories of the characters and this kind of fills in other stuff and like, it's really sad. Oh no. No, but it's like sad and like, I know how it ends because like this is a, it's a prequel. So you see all the sad stuff and I know that it gets fixed in the show. So it's cute.
01:17:13
Speaker
It was fun. They introduced a little bit of the LGBTQ some characters in there. And I appreciated that because it's not like it was a long time before the show ever did that. Yeah. And then I picked up the first issue of the hack slash resurrection. Yeah. The one that you haven't had yet.
01:17:43
Speaker
right and it's i i intention so i didn't read it because there was one that came out between the last volume of hack slash and then this one uh that was a short story that i hated and i tried recently to reread it see if maybe i was being too harsh no it sucks it is real bad
01:18:04
Speaker
But this one is pretty good, so it's got me interested and I'm looking forward to reading the newest volume. And hopefully there's more, you know? Yeah. Binky's Cross. Yeah.
01:18:19
Speaker
All right, so I already mentioned you can find the suggested readings on the website. You can also follow us on Twitter and Instagram by searching at pedanticast and at Derek L. Chase on both platforms. New episodes come out most Sundays, kind of, on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, Spotify, and at comicallypedantic.com. If you have any comments or questions or concerns, or if you just want to complain, you can send them in text or audio recording to comicallypedantic at gmail.com.
01:18:45
Speaker
I love that we're just opening it to complaints. So honestly, you know, I thought of it because I was I've been recently listening to opening arguments, which is a legal podcast. And they say on there, like, if you want to leave a complaint, you can go. And I was like, yeah, you know what? Like, I don't care if you want to complain. That's fine. OK.
01:19:09
Speaker
I'll answer it, maybe. I mean, if it's not mean. About anything, you're gonna be like, man, the wait at the bus stop was so long today. I'm so mad about it.
01:19:20
Speaker
What would have made it better is if you had Batman R.A.P. in your hands and you could have been reading it while waiting at the bus. Yeah, unless it started raining. That's another reason to complain. That's terrible. My comic book got wet from the polluted rain. I would have been upset. I used to take the train to school and work in the morning.
01:19:41
Speaker
I was reading hack slash at the time, because it was when I first got into the book, when it was first being published. And it's a very adult book. And sometimes I did see the front cover of the first one that you lent me. And I went, Oh my. And then I just keep putting things on top of it. So I don't have to see the cover. Cause like it, the art is very, like the artist does a very good job, but it's just a lot. So I just, I put a coaster on top of it.
01:20:11
Speaker
Well, they even, at one point, they did a team up with, you know Suicide Girls, the website? Do you know what that is? I think so, yeah. So you see girls that are tatted up and like alt girls, but they're naked. Oh, yes. So you pay money to see like alt girls naked. Yeah, it's only fans. Yeah, but like a specific crowd. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
01:20:38
Speaker
They teamed up with Suicide Girls and they did like a hack slash Suicide Girls where they like I don't know if they were real people or not but like she she like protected some Suicide Girls from like a Slasher killer in the book and then part of the thing was at the end she would she posed for for Suicide Girls and
01:21:04
Speaker
You could get like, if you had a Suicide Girls account, you could see basically just new drawings of Cassie. And so I was reading a hack slash on the train and I remember getting to this part and it was like, there's just blood and like boobs.
01:21:24
Speaker
and all kinds of stuff in this. I feel so uncomfortable that the old lady sitting in the aisle across from me would look over and be like, what the fuck is this kid reading? Well, that's why I don't bring comic books to work to read. Whenever I want to read, I will make sure that it is a novel coming with me because I can't risk it. I can't risk it.
01:21:52
Speaker
Especially if you're reading Saga because like every other page there's something in that.
Discussion of Saga's Impact and Final Installment
01:21:57
Speaker
Something happens in Saga almost every chapter. Absolutely. But other times I want to just like hang Gus on a wall and be like, well, look at him. Yeah. Here's why you got to read it. Like forget about the close up of a television baby getting birthed.
01:22:16
Speaker
Look at this little guy. I remember specifically trying to convince someone that it was good and worth reading as I was reading it and flipping the page and there was a dragon doing things that I did not expect to see a dragon doing in this book. I can't remember where that happens.
01:22:36
Speaker
I'll tell you about it off the air. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. So we will be back next week with the final installment of this story. But until then, you can find more exciting adventures at your local comic shop.