Transcript
Speaker: H .T. Smartcast. You are listening to an H .T. Smartcast original.
Speaker: Hi, I'm Akshay. Hi, this is Aurob. And you are listening to the Founder Thesis Podcast. We meet some of the most celebrated sort of founders in the country. And we want to learn how to build a unicorn. How do you start a business when you don't have a clear business plan or money to back you? To understand this, Akshay speaks to Knuckle, the founder of Cashify and a serial entrepreneur.
Speaker: Cashify has raised millions of dollars and has literally made gold from garbage. So far, they have paid more than 1400 crore rupees to more than 20 lakh people to take away their old gadget. Here is Nagal talking about his journey. First, let's start from your childhood. Look, I want to know, entrepreneurship, what are you doing here? You are accidentally entrepreneurs, right?
Speaker: It was funny that you asked me. I was just discussing. My dad is my 5th class. So my dad was a WWF fan. And my dad had a sticker on it. A sticker with a booklet. It was a wrestler with photos and trump cards.
Speaker: This was Undertaker and... Undertaker or Hitman or my fifth class. And he told me that he was expensive. What was your father's background like? My father is highly educated.
Speaker: IIT IM always worked in a private organization, top management. So a lot of things to look up to.
Speaker: I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold a B sticker. I sold
Speaker: I think that is what maybe you may call it entrepreneurship.
Speaker: Then what happened during the end of school, going into college? So, I wouldn't call myself a shy guy, but I was not really out there.
Speaker: My family background is low in middle class. I have a lot of IITs. I have a lot of IITs. I have a lot of IITs. I have a lot of IITs. I have a lot of IITs. I have a lot of IITs. I have a lot of IITs. I have a lot of IITs. I have a lot of IITs. I have a lot of IITs. I have a lot of IITs. I have a lot of
Speaker: because of Delhi being my statehood.
Speaker: I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to do it.
Speaker: Nitho Konsai College finally entered. Mayap Gya Panjabi University Chandirana. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo personality thi school tak. To Mirajo
Speaker: This is a very simple example. There is always a show. If you want to buy a barbie, you can buy a coffee -conscious barbie.
Speaker: Right, so it was a very
Speaker: I was an average student or I never tried to be above average.
Speaker: Never went below average. So what were your achievements in college? First year I went to college. Second year I went to college. Officially or not? Officially I went to college. System is difficult, right? It is a difficult thing.
Speaker: The first year was the first time. It was the first time. It was a political influence. I got into politics. It was the second year. It was the first time I got into politics.
Speaker: You were the president like student union. I don't like to be the front face. I don't like to be the front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front face. I don't like to be front
Speaker: When I was president, I was a first -year -old. When I was in college, I was a first -year -old. My intention was that I was a first -year -old and I was a first -year -old. I was a first -year -old. I was a third -year -old. I was a third -year -old.
Speaker: How do I improve food in my mess? To take control. How do I improve food in my mess? To take control. How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess? How do I improve food in my mess?
Speaker: Next after college MBA MBA was very different. I think
Speaker: In the third year, I have been working with Vipro, Infosys, Mindtree. I have been working with them for a long time. I have been working with them for a long time. I have been working with them for a long time. I have been working with them for a long time. I have been working with them for a long time. I have been working with them for a long time. I have been working with them for a long time. I have been working with them for a long time. I have been working with them for a long time.
Speaker: So, I was able to sell all the sales and the door -to -door sales. I was able to sell all the sales and the door -to -door sales. So, I was able to sell all the sales and the door -to -door sales. So, I was able to sell all the sales and the door -to -door sales. So, I was able to sell all the sales and the door -to -door sales. So, I was able to sell all the sales and door -to -door sales.
Speaker: and sales are very good. But I think that sales are very good. I think that sales are very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I think that sales is very good. I
Speaker: I am from the European School of Business. I am from my classmates. I am from MBA. I am from America. I am from the real world. I am from India. I am from India. I am from India. I am from India. I am from India. I am from India.
Speaker: When I was in the NBA, I started from Germany. I started from Kaseguro. I was a student. I was a ground star. I started from the NBA, and I started from Kaseguro. But my perception was different. My perception was a little different. But my question was, how do you get to the NBA?
Speaker: I've been working in Europe for a long time. I've been working for a long time. I've been working for a long time. I've been working for a long time. I've been working for a long time. I've been working for a long time. I've been working for a long time. I've been working for a long time. I've been working for a long time. I've been working for a long time. I've been working for a long time.
Speaker: So, that really opened my eyes. That was it. So, what happened at the end of MBA? No, it was not.
Speaker: We were going through, I think, one of the worst of that decade. And in the interview, it was very difficult to get a number as usual. But we had to get a short list of numbers. So, we had to get a short list of numbers. So, we had to get a short list of numbers. So, we had to get a lot of money.
Speaker: I don't want to interview any of them, no disrespect to them, but I don't want to do anything. I don't want to do anything. So, it did not excite me. I want to go to India Entry Consulting. I want to go to Sarajo Kajar. I want to travel a little bit. I want to go to India. I want to go to India. I want to go to India.
Speaker: I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say. So it is risk versus reward. The risk of sticking around in that company was so high. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say.
Speaker: I don't know how many people have come here, but I'm not sure how many people have come here. I don't know how many people have come here.
Speaker: How did you decide how to start? Were you clear when you left your job? Actually, my job is to be a part of a business partner. I think it's a waste management team. I think joining the company is a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good idea to have an event management, dating app.
Speaker: If you think about it, if you think about it, if you think about it, if you think about it, if you think about it, if you think about it, if you think about it,
Speaker: I give credit to that. It's all about execution. It is not about the idea.
Speaker: What is his background like?
Speaker: I won't say the name but a very famous Saudi company
Speaker: That was the thesis. Which is not true, by the way.
Speaker: The code is collected by select, the code is transported by select, and the code is processed by select. The end output of the process is added by select, and the output of the process is added by select, and the output of the process is added by select, and the output of the process is added by select, and the output of the process is added by select, and the output of the process is added by select, and the output of the process is added by select, and the output of the process is added by select, and the output of the process is added by select, and the output of the process is added by select, and the output of the process is added by select.
Speaker: The good thing was, I am privileged enough, privileged families.
Speaker: That way we were very privileged.
Speaker: We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support We were very grateful for that support
Speaker: I am not sure if there is a factory or not, but I am sure that there is a lot of people in the factory. I don't know if there are any people in the factory. I don't know if there are any people in the factory. I don't know if there are any people in the factory. I don't know if there are any people in the factory. I don't know if there are any people in the factory. I don't know if there are any people in the factory. I don't know if there are any people in the factory. I don't know if there are any people in the factory. I don't know if there are any people in the factory.
Speaker: So, fresh MBS, big company, big consultant, how do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do you get the credibility? How do
Speaker: We had a conference in conferences. We had a ticket. We had a student card. We had a company sponsor. We had a message for her, and her event paid for it. She paid for it. She was free. She didn't want to pay for it.
Speaker: We started sounding knowledgeable because of this event.
Speaker: If you start attending events of any domain and then you will start
Speaker: We started getting known in the waste management ecosystem. We had a company called Reglobe. We had a waste management consultant who had a lot of money. So we had to wait for him to come back. So we had to wait for him to come back. We had to wait for him to come back. We had to wait for him to come back.
Speaker: I have been working on my investment in Chrome. I have been working on my smart lock. I have been working on my MBA. I have been working on my market value. I have been working on my free market value.
Speaker: So, there was an exposure that came out of it. And then the company started consulting projects. But it was fine. So, there was an exposure that came out of it. So, how did this happen?
Speaker: consulting well enough. I'm not sure if it's knowledge, but if you look at the projects, you can see how much they're collecting. So, if you're flexible, you can get a consultant. So, if you want to get a plan, you can get a student. If you want to get a study, you can do that.
Speaker: I have been a consultant for myself. I have been a consultant for many years. I have been a consultant for many years. I have been a consultant for many years. I have been a consultant for many years. I have been a consultant for many years. I have been a consultant for many years. I have been a consultant for many years. I have been a consultant for many years. I have been a consultant for many years.
Speaker: I don't know how to say it, I don't know how to say it, I don't know how to say it, I don't know how to say it, I don't know how to say it, I don't know how to say it, I don't know how to say it, I don't know how to say it, I don't know how to say it, I don't know how to say it, I don't know how to say it, I don't know how to say it, I don't know how to say it,
Speaker: So, as you can tell, now, I have a lot of technology to make pyrolysis, and I have a lot of research and homework, and I realize that it's my potential.
Speaker: I think it's important to have a company like this company. I think it's important to have a place like this in the country of Europe. And I think it's important to have a place like this in the country of Europe. I think it's important to have a place like this in Europe.
Speaker: We will save it for future. We will save it for future. We will save it for future. We will save it for future. We will save it for future. We will save it for future. We will save it for future. We will save it for future. We will save it for future. We will save it for future. We will save it for future. We will save it for future. We will save it for future. We will save it for future.
Speaker: About one. And how much did you need? One.
Speaker: So, I was able to do this for a long time. So, I was able to do this for a long time. I was able to do this for a long time. So, I was able to do this for a long time. So, I was able to do this for a long time. So, I was able to do this for a long time. So, I was able to do this for a long time. So, I was able to do this for a long time.
Speaker: My father's name is Gisaya. He is a project reporter. He is a project designer. He is a project designer. He is a project designer. He is a project designer. He is a project designer. He is a project designer. He is a project designer. He is a project designer. He is a project designer. He is a project designer. He is a project designer.
Speaker: The bank is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is a bank that is not a bank, it is not a bank, it is not a bank, it is not a bank, it is not a bank, it is not a bank, it is not a bank, it
Speaker: No, I think it is also luck, it is also perseverance. So, we kept doing that. Then...
Speaker: So I think in India we are manufacturing plant operations. This is the toughest thing you can ever do in India. In India, we have a lot of different departments. We have a lot of different departments. We have a lot of people from the electricity department to the excise department.
Speaker: Environment department, job department, department department, and you have to deal with them.
Speaker: They refused to wear uniform.
Speaker: If you don't have a strike, you will be able to do it. If you don't have a strike, you will be able to do it. If you don't have a strike, you will be able to do it. If you don't have a strike, you will be able to do it. If you don't have a strike, you will be able to do it.
Speaker: I think it's a good thing to have a team like that. I think it's a good thing to have a team like that.
Speaker: We never thought of it.
Speaker: We didn't understand those cultural aspects. Like in handling people, to managing profit and loss, to raw material processing. For example, there are a lot of interesting things here. There are a lot of raw materials here.
Speaker: I didn't want to say I didn't want to say I didn't want to say I didn't want to say I didn't want to say I didn't want to say I didn't want to say
Speaker: I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do.
Speaker: the labour, your partner, your vendor, your customer. It's such a cutthroat kind of place, India. Or maybe Minnesota South is better. But Minnesota is a better country. And I think Gujarat is even much better.
Speaker: We were on top of a game. We had a lot of productivity. We had a lot of money. We had a lot of money. We had a lot of money. We had a lot of money. We had a lot of money. We had a lot of money.
Speaker: I am at the top of my peak.
Speaker: It's a good feeling. Kithanatha is not the right thing to say on this.
Speaker: My wife was there. My parents were there. It was enough. They did not expect that I could go there. So that was an achievement. The bank loan was there. That was an achievement. So, I had to go there. So, I didn't plan anything. I didn't plan anything.
Speaker: This is exactly the plant that you can use. This is a tire rubber machine. This is a reverse engineering machine. This is a tire rubber, carbon 7, petroleum product 7. So we are reverse engineering and putting that into, again, oil. And that oil is, again, usable in furnaces, glass furnaces, metal furnaces. This is a raw material to substitute to a diesel.
Speaker: Industrial diesel. Heavy duty plant machinery type. And this was new technology because you said you were the second plant. Yeah, so actually the technology is not new. But in India, the economics, the battery, the petrol or diesel rates are at X certain points. So it's 30 rupees for 30 rupees.
Speaker: So it made sense to sell it at 27 .28. So it was not really a new technology. It was just in that year, it suddenly started making economic sense.
Speaker: So then you were at a crossroad? We are missing out on life. The kind of people we meet interact are just dragging us down, not up. I don't know.
Speaker: You only grow when you meet smarter people than you. And that was a challenge. Because of our location, because of just the kind of business we have.
Speaker: So, when I was a kid, I didn't know how to do it. I didn't know how to do it. I didn't know how to do it. I didn't know how to do it. I didn't know how to do it. I didn't know how to do it. I didn't know how to do it. I didn't know how to do it.
Speaker: Was I willing to take that much risk again? It's such an uncertain world.
Speaker: So there was no stopgap. So when we were at peak, we sold it. If you are comfortable, I am not comfortable. We were the initial angel investor for our own firm.
Speaker: Before you sold, you knew next business? No, no, no. How long did it take you? How long did it take you? It took me a long time. It took me a long time. It took me a long time. It took me a long time. It took me a long time.
Speaker: I don't have a passion for it. I don't have a passion for it. I don't have a passion for it. I don't have a passion for it. I don't have a passion for it. I don't have a passion for it. I don't have a passion for it. I don't have a passion for it. I don't have a passion for it. I don't have a passion for it. I don't have a passion for it. I don't have a passion for it.
Speaker: This is like a flip -cut too good.
Speaker: And I think that when a dealer deals with a dealer, they realize that demand is the second -hand price -conscious market. That is why I have to pay for the price -conscious market.
Speaker: like in H .E .D .R. Repeat customer name, if you have a quality technique, you can do it. If you have a quality technique, you can do it. If you have a quality technique, you can do it. If you have a quality technique, you can do it. If you have a quality technique, you can do it. If you have a quality technique, you can do it. If you have a quality technique, you can do it. If you have a quality technique, you can do it. If you have a quality technique, you can do it.
Speaker: I think it's been a long time since I've been here. It's been a long time since I've been here since I've been here since I've been here since I've been here since I've been here since I've been here since I've been here since I've been here since I've been here since I've been here since I've been here since
Speaker: Very unprofessional network or not enough margin play. So, I got my customer who sent me a free bag with them and a warranty with them. So, that's what I wanted to do. So, I didn't realize that I had a direct customer source. So, that's what I wanted to do. Also, I continued to do business with them. So, I didn't realize that demand was a problem.
Speaker: Why is dealer and professional?
Speaker: He's unprofessional. He doesn't have constant supply. He doesn't have control over quality.
Speaker: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker: I don't have any demand for it. I don't have any demand for it. I don't have any demand for it. I don't have any demand for it.
Speaker: Online, offline, don't know. It doesn't matter. Online, offline. Both in selling or buying. Online, online, don't know.
Speaker: So let's talk about fundraise, which is generally something that most people see it as a big enigma and a challenge and a mystery to solve. So when did you do your first fundraiser? When did you do your first fundraiser? When did you do your first fundraiser? When did you do your first fundraiser? When did you do your first fundraiser? When did you do your first fundraiser?
Speaker: There is no need to get distracted. So I think at that time we had taken the funding.
Speaker: But funding, so it's not been easy for us. But just say, the first fundraiser, let's start with that. The first fundraiser is a Bloom or Bessemer Venture Partners, or basically,
Speaker: And Arpit and Bloom, we had approached him early 2014 and he liked that. It's also on people investing. They are also looking at people who they can believe. Then early stage investing is more on Kiskotam Trust.
Speaker: I think that's where they came back and said, we are not VCV fundable. We are not VCV fundable.
Speaker: How did you reach out to VCs? How many VCs? Event? While I hate being social, if you meet me in a networking event and I have an objective, you will meet me.
Speaker: How do you convert that?
Speaker: What is the process you followed to convert intro to one -on -one? No, person to person. It was not a generic... When you talk to them, you understand that there are a lot of moods at this event. There are a lot of people who are genuinely interested in this portfolio. I think this portfolio is really exciting. I think it's really exciting.
Speaker: You need to do your homework to really get a one -on -one. You get more feedback.
Speaker: You understand. We come from a bank mindset. And what amount is the right amount also? We don't understand that much.
Speaker: After talking to loads of VCs, understanding, so all VCs are not upfront with feedback. You don't know what's going in their mind. So how to scrape that out of them. Taking it in the right manner. I've seen a lot of people take offense on getting feedback.
Speaker: They're giving feedback, it's a privilege you're getting from them. And their feedback we may be totally wrong, which is fine. And then it is up to you to decide what to work on, what not to work on, what you feel. They're also not domain expert, right?
Speaker: take that feedback and then work on it
Speaker: VC Peise Q. You understood this fact as opposed to a bank. What is the answer for that? VC Peise Q. What is the value of VC Peise Q. What is the value of VC Peise Q. What is the value of VC Peise Q. What is the value of VC Peise Q. What is the value of VC Peise Q. What is the value of VC Peise Q. What is the value of VC Peise Q. What is the value of VC Peise Q. What is the value of VC Peise Q. What is the value of VC Peise Q.
Speaker: Which sounds bigger? PG.
Speaker: So, how do you scale that? They may want a certain kind of audience only into there. So, you have to understand the nature of boutique hotels, right?
Speaker: So it doesn't sound very scalable. But PG, right? students as a group have a common problem and which can be scalable. So from a market point of view, suddenly PG market is much, much more. So why did you need funds? 2015, man? To grow.
Speaker: Well, you need funds because you are doing something good. And if you keep doing it, you have to pay certain fees. When you take an extended fund, you get two leverages. You can grow faster. So, if you have to pay some fees, you have to pay some fees. If you have to pay some fees, you have to pay some fees. If you have to pay some fees, you have to pay some fees. You have to pay some fees. You have to pay some fees. You have to pay some fees.
Speaker: It gives you liberty to experiment.
Speaker: There will be 10 misses but one hit but if one hit happens then I have more scope of diversifying my business and Making sure it is more risk averse
Speaker: Also, I think it must have been a very working capital intensive business. How about the advance of the company and the recovery of the dealers? That's the nature of my business and we are fine with it. So, then what next after the first fund raise? So, Abitag, we have done
Speaker: 4 funders still now and we have been again lucky of finding the right investors who believe in our vision. So it's been a good journey but it's not again been easy.
Speaker: Some of our existing investors understand the space. For example, I am an investor. I am an investor from the premium b -school. I am earning really well. I don't understand the problem of second -hand funds. I have a second -hand fund. I have a market fund. I have a bank fund. I don't have a bank fund. I don't have a backup fund.
Speaker: for them to understand the pain and also they look at U .S. or developed markets for a business model which has reconfirmed the thesis.
Speaker: You had iHooie Show come in as an investor. Is that a game changer? Game changer for them or for us? I love iShow. What they have built as a business in China is tremendous. And for the listeners who don't know, iShow is like us, but in China and bigger.
Speaker: So they are almost 10 times bigger. They buy pranay phones in China and then sell it to dealers. So similar to us. And we met them somewhere.
Speaker: One of my thinking is that it is similar to the other. I think China is a factory that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up that has a set up
Speaker: What will be the coronavirus impact on your business?
Speaker: I'm hoping that for example, I'm hoping that for example, I'm hoping that for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example, for example
Speaker: What I've heard is that some of the OEMs are running low in supply in the market. But what also I've heard is China's backup. So 80 % production was already there. I think another two weeks you'll get to know. My fingers crossed. What is the competitive landscape for cashify? Who do you see as your major competitors and how are you different from them?
Speaker: I see the local mom and pop store. They don't judge the phone. They don't judge the phone. If you go into a store or if you have a phone, you can read it. So let me just make a fool out of him.
Speaker: and those are my competition. So, if I can get them organized, make it part of my supply chain, work together and say, we are customer co -best price. Supply chain co -efficient. There is a margin for everybody available in the market and then how do you supply it to the person who requires that phone? Find that phone, get them the best price again.
Speaker: For me, my competition are the people who are the local movement of stores, but they're also part of my big partnerships and supply chain. So from competition, I want to move them to my supply chain.
Speaker: So what next for Casify? Like a five year vision? Frankly, five year vision, we're ever changing landscape. But we want to be a platform where when you think of electronic gadgets, which is maybe a computer based.
Speaker: We want to be there to help you, you know, buy it, sell it. New also? Will you get into new phones? Help you buy. We may not sell you directly, but we may help you buy. Then maintain it. So, repair life cycle management and then upgrade to the better one.
Speaker: We want to be there. And the form factor may keep changing. It may become glasses. It may become a microchip inside your body. But we want to be that technology body for you. So you have, I think my understanding is that you have a couple of different business lines. You have one business line which is supply focused. You procure phones and then you sell it to wholesalers, distributors.
Speaker: Now you're also into accessories, which you're selling yourself. As you said, you're also getting into demand, which means you're selling used phones now directly to customers. So what is the split? So are we for mostly is the first one where we're buying from consumer and then selling directly to dealer wholesale. But it's also maturing of the ecosystem as well. Why did we start accessory? Because
Speaker: People come in and say, you are a phone expert. Why don't you tell me which accessory to? And then we can't just start randomly recommending brands. So we said, accessory is something which we can select and find best value for money and then provide it to the customer. And if they're coming to our stores or platform, we can maybe give it to them.
Speaker: So that the whole idea was, how do you become more value for the consumer? Similarly to selling a phone directly to consumer has more challenges than what we currently do. But we want to do because there are more and more consumers every day coming on the cashier website and saying, yeah, the phone is really bad, right?
Speaker: I want access to second -hand phones, and there's nobody else better than you who can provide that. So after my deliberation, we said, okay, let's do that. Aren't you competing with your own customers? So again, it's such a big market. I don't think so. Just value proposition, usually. So again, we provide six months warranty. We provide new accessories.
Speaker: is like experiencing a brand new phone, right? Is that experience with half the cost? So, at the level and the quality we do,
Speaker: How our dealers and wholesalers are very different than us is they provide a chain field. They sell in the local market and they buy a phone. Or if you buy a phone, you have to replace it.
Speaker: That kind of thing, we can't provide. And that's really a beautiful way the market works, right? But we can provide just an iPhone with a map to provide. That's the scalable way we can do. And we want to make sure that the quality of refurbishing, the quality of second -hand phones you provide, at least in Saltele. That makes it valuable for them. So we are moving slowly on that. But slowly but surely.
Speaker: And you also have a repair business. Yes. So again, it was a user use case, right? And when, for example, you break the screen of your phone and you give it to a service center and say,
Speaker: I don't know what they will do with the data. They will have to have the pin code because they want to open the phone and everything. So, we realized it into a business where I think, the guy will come to your home, throw it in front of you in 30 minutes. So, you know that the data, the other parts are always safe. And because it's happening in front of you, it's more value. So, that's what we started.
Speaker: But which of these do you think will really scale up, all these other bets? So I think all of them will. But I'm particularly more inclined towards the second -hand phone selling business to one consumer. The demand is humongous. And where we are limited is our own ability to process faster, to build for scale. I think the demand is a never -ending. You'll be going up against the two good
Speaker: And how big is that compared to the main business? So all these are smaller than our main business.
Speaker: So Toward is a marketplace. Again, I would consider them more of a partnership. So we sell on Toward, we sell on Amazon. So I don't consider them as. So it's like, is Vivo a competition to Flipkart? No. There are a lot of people who are listening to the show who would be thinking of entrepreneurship, but are not sure if they should do it or not. What advice do you have for them?
Speaker: So, I have been asked this question a lot, especially from students who are thinking of taking the, I think the first thing you should really do is,
Speaker: So, I had that liberty of time or I could do crazy stuff.
Speaker: I think it's very important to understand that there are a lot of people who are interested in life and life. I think it's very important to understand that there are a lot of people who are interested in life and life. There are a lot of people who are interested in life and life. There are a lot of people who are interested in life and life. There are a lot of people who are interested in life and life. There are a lot of people who are interested in life and life. There are a lot of people who are interested in life and life. There are a lot of people who are interested in life and life. There are a lot of people who are interested in life and life. There are a lot of people who are interested in life and life.
Speaker: Because of your contacts, access to capital is easier. That's how you will differentiate yourself.
Speaker: What you're saying is essentially like external stuff. What about the family? What about the strength? What about the strength? What about the strength? What about the strength? What about the strength? What about the strength? What about the strength? What about the strength? What about the strength? What about the strength? What about the strength? What about the strength? What about the strength? What about the strength?
Speaker: I have a lot of questions about coding. I don't know how to use it. I have been using it for a long time. I have been using it for a long time. I have been using it for a long time. I have been using it for a long time. I have been using it for a long time. I have been using it for a long time. I have been using it for a long time. I have been using it for a long time. I have been using it for a long time. I have been using it for a long time. I have been using it for a long time. I have been using it for a long time. I have been using it for a long time.
Speaker: So you have to look at your strength and then figure out what matches, what
Speaker: business or idea or synergies, partnerships, matches those strengths and work on them.
Speaker: So, let's say I can give 5 years to my business. Do you think anyone who is in this situation will succeed? No, for example, I have a lot of dependents. I have a lot of images. And I have a lot of restaurants. I live in Minnesota, I have a lot of restaurants.
Speaker: From this thesis, I'm saying we have a parcel.
Speaker: Right? It's been a long time since I've been working here since I've been working here since I've been working here since I've been working here since I've been working here since I've been working here since I've been working here since I've been working here since I've been working
Speaker: So then you start analyzing and building your thesis. And then you will start opening, doing one, pivoting. Then you build it in five years. I would do it like that. That's how.
Speaker: What difference is that?
Speaker: Okay. So, what do you think is your superpower as an entrepreneur? Things which I think set you apart? I think if I'm wrong, I accept it. You have a better logic. I don't feel any shame in admitting I'm wrong.
Speaker: and learning from it and using that in the future. So, I think it is very important. I think that is very important.
Speaker: I don't limit myself in the U .S. I don't limit myself in the U .S. I don't limit myself in the U .S. I don't limit myself in the U .S. I don't limit myself in the U .S. I don't limit myself in the U .S. I don't limit myself in the U .S. I don't limit myself in the U .S.
Speaker: So I feel I do not limit myself on thinking insane things and trying to figure out if there is a logic if you can do it.
Speaker: It finally gets done or not done is a different question. So what were some of the times when you were wrong, some mistakes you made? I always thought that I was going to pick up a pickup.
Speaker: of the factory was evaluated and passed away. But there was a lot of money. There was a lot of money in the market that came out of the market. There was a lot of money in the market that came out of the market that came out of the market that came out of the market that came out of the market that came out of the market that came out of the market.
Speaker: So, I think it is the end. I had to stop to Mandeep for not allowing me to think otherwise. And what were some of the tough times that Casify went through and what did you learn from them? I can tell you a tough time every six months. Every six months there's a new challenge, new problems and
Speaker: As the company grows, there is no challenge to the coronavirus. So, it's a time cycle and you keep learning new things. And if you don't know what's going to happen next time, it's going to be more efficient. It's going to be easier.
Speaker: So if an entrepreneur or an aspiring entrepreneur came up to you at an event and said, what are your suggestions?
Speaker: Well, sounds very... I cannot give you an idea if I don't know what distance. Again, it relates back to that.
Speaker: So let's do something which is around college Can you do something in environment different than others are doing scalable
Speaker: It is very important for me too. So, it is very important for me too. So, it is very important for me too. So, it is very important for me too. So, it is very important for me too. So, it is very important for me too. So, it is very important for me too. So, it is very important for me too. So, it is very important for me too. So, it is very important for me too. So, it is very important for me too. So, it is very important for me too. So, it is very important for me too.
Speaker: Out of 100, only 5 people follow up. So 95 people follow up. And I have had people who didn't have any laptop presentation.
Speaker: You want to discuss further, meet me one -on -one. They don't meet. I have had people who have sent me a mail and I have replied to them on questions and they have not replied well. I don't blame them.
Speaker: Most of them want to get introduced to VC, which I don't have a problem to. And you can be a friend with me. I don't have a problem. People don't really want to come up to me and say, I don't have a problem.
Speaker: So, I am actually very straight forward.
Speaker: I can't help you and maybe I can help you if you take me deeper and then I get convinced and then I can also nudge the investor saying that please me and I am okay with both approaches but both approaches take time right so if you're willing to spend that time I am okay to do that if you're not willing to spend that I'm okay with that okay it's your business I don't get out of anything out of it
Speaker: Thank you so much for your time. Any last message to our listeners?
Speaker: Then we can choose a different topic. I'm okay. But I would love to continue being a part of your podcast. Thank you so much.
Speaker: So that was Knuckle. He is a big believer in power of technology to disrupt. And if you have a disruptive tech startup idea that you want to discuss with him, then write to us at hello at the podium dot in.
Speaker: If you like the founder thesis podcast then do check out our other shows on subjects like marketing, technology, career advice, books and drama. Visit the podium .in i .e. T -H -E -P -O -D -I -U -N .I -N for a complete list of all our shows. This was an HD Smartcast Original.
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