Transcript
Speaker: Hello everyone.
Speaker: Welcome back to We Can Do Pod Things.
Speaker: I'm Annalise.
Speaker: And I'm Emily.
Speaker: And today is Annalise's birthday.
Speaker: And I'm like so excited, not just because it's my birthday, but because both of our microphones appear to be working super well.
Speaker: And clipping, that's the name of it.
Speaker: What we call the ting ting is actually called clipping.
Speaker: And I know this phrase, but I don't really know a whole lot about it other than it's real annoying when you can hear it.
Speaker: And we're just learning these things as we go.
Speaker: But it seems to be working right now.
Speaker: It's a birthday miracle.
Speaker: It's a birthday miracle.
Speaker: So thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker: We're recording this on the 23rd of September.
Speaker: 9-23-23, baby.
Speaker: And I am 23 years old now.
Speaker: It's your golden birthday.
Speaker: Yay, it's my golden birthday.
Speaker: Or plus a few, but it's fine.
Speaker: I feel 23 in my heart.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: I don't know about you, but I'm feeling 23.
Speaker: 23.
Speaker: That's a foot hook.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like I don't know anything and like I probably – like I'm just starting out in life and holy shit, I wish I had spent a little bit more time as a kid.
Speaker: Yeah, I got that truck.
Speaker: That all truck.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Checking the boxes over here.
Speaker: All of them.
Speaker: So, hey guys.
Speaker: How are you doing?
Speaker: Hope you're doing all right.
Speaker: Hope you guys had a good week.
Speaker: This week we are doing – do you remember how when we started doing the show, we used to listen to this one person's podcast.
Speaker: Her name was Glennon.
Speaker: I think I remember her.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So we are actually going to do another Glennon episode.
Speaker: However, we're going to do an episode that predates We Can Do Hard Things.
Speaker: This episode aired on July 5th, 2021.
Speaker: And it was on the Man Enough podcast...
Speaker: As far as we know, no one's dead.
Speaker: I don't know if our very fancy mics picked up that barking and then screaming, but we just double-checked to make sure nobody was dead.
Speaker: Yeah, those were screams of joy.
Speaker: The joy of children.
Speaker: That's exactly what children sound like, blood-curdling screams.
Speaker: I don't necessarily – I'm not saying I find it joyous, but – No, but when children are having fun, it usually involves a level of discomfort to everyone else around them.
Speaker: And we love them.
Speaker: So anyway, she was on the podcast called Man Enough by Justin Baldoni, and he has two co-hosts, and Liz Plank is one of them, and the other one, I did not write his name down.
Speaker: So I don't remember what it is.
Speaker: I'm just looking up Justin Baldoni because – Oh, he was on Jane the Virgin.
Speaker: He's also a director.
Speaker: I think he's had two documentaries.
Speaker: I want to say one of them was called Clouds.
Speaker: Can I tell you two more interesting facts about Mr. Baldoni?
Speaker: Sure can.
Speaker: He and I share a birthday.
Speaker: Woo!
Speaker: A single year apart.
Speaker: So wait, you guys are both Aquariuses.
Speaker: You're both born on January 24th.
Speaker: And he's married to an Emily.
Speaker: So Justin and Emily.
Speaker: Oh my, oh my God.
Speaker: And your husband's name is Justin.
Speaker: Hot Justin.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: His wife has dark blondish hair just like you do.
Speaker: And he has dark hair just like, well, Hot Justin used to.
Speaker: So maybe there's a little mutual stardust here.
Speaker: Definitely mutual stardust.
Speaker: And you know what?
Speaker: This Justin Baldoni...
Speaker: is very sweet and emotional guy too.
Speaker: And I may or may not draw some parallels between other Justins that we know with that.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Well, what I know of him so far, I like.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I read his book.
Speaker: I think I actually read his book after I listened to this podcast episode.
Speaker: And this was kind of interesting for me to listen to a second time around because I
Speaker: I picked the episode and I listened to it right after it came out.
Speaker: And that was right around sometime when you guys know how I felt.
Speaker: Cause I won't shut up about it.
Speaker: There was a breakup that may have been happening, like a stage of breakup when isn't there.
Speaker: But, um, and listening to this podcast, cause I had just read untamed.
Speaker: I'm putting my party hat back on.
Speaker: I just listened to Untamed and I listened to this podcast episode and it really challenged the way I thought about feminism and how women relate to men and interpersonal conflict between men and women.
Speaker: And I remember listening to the episode at the gym and stopping and
Speaker: and texting, I believe texting you a quote, or I definitely also put it on Facebook.
Speaker: I may or may not have texted it to you, but I definitely put it on Facebook.
Speaker: Our texts should really be archived for the Smithsonian.
Speaker: But unfortunately, I'm only just now having that thought.
Speaker: So, you know, for a long time, I didn't have it set to where like they automatically delete after one year.
Speaker: And then my phone's like, hi, do you need a terabyte of storage for your phone?
Speaker: Because if you want to save all these text messages and photos that you take, you should probably pick one or the other or just start dragging around a laptop to hook up so that you have more hard drive space.
Speaker: So I set it so that they would auto delete after one year and I regret that often.
Speaker: Mine disappear after a month.
Speaker: What?
Speaker: Ew.
Speaker: Am I a serial killer?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Of text messages.
Speaker: But I remember listening to it and going like, oh my God, this is a thing that I need to dive into.
Speaker: And then I got on the wait list for Justin's book, Man Enough, and I listened to it.
Speaker: And I cried so much while listening to the book.
Speaker: It was as a parent that
Speaker: of a male passing person.
Speaker: It was really big for me.
Speaker: It was also eye opening for me in relation to the person that I had broken up with and why they act the way that they do.
Speaker: It was actually very eye opening for me when I think about my ex-husband and the way
Speaker: from what I understand, some of his experiences as a kid, it really gave me so much more empathy and compassion.
Speaker: And just like, I was just like, oh, wait,
Speaker: I made big assumptions about what it's like to be a man based on what I've observed.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And I was wrong.
Speaker: I think one thing that we're realizing after listening to this episode is that a lot of the assumptions that I make are based on the system of masculinity, not necessarily on men themselves.
Speaker: And you know what?
Speaker: And we're going to get into that.
Speaker: We're going to get into that.
Speaker: And let's just get into it then.
Speaker: Because a lot of the things that we believe about the systems of masculinity and patriarchy, pretty on the nose.
Speaker: I mean, they're supported by a lot of data and evidence.
Speaker: But that doesn't necessarily speak to the human beings who we know in our lives.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We're going to get into it.
Speaker: Also, though, I do want to mention that I listened to that book quite a while ago, but I've recently gotten back into Justin's work because he essentially wrote a new version of Man Enough for Kids called Boys Will Be Good Humans.
Speaker: And I have been listening to that with Jack.
Speaker: And so we've been listening to it together.
Speaker: Um, and I really appreciate it.
Speaker: I appreciate it a lot.
Speaker: I think it's meant for a little bit older.
Speaker: Um, Jack's 10 in, in January and some of the content might be a little, um,
Speaker: not mature, like explicitly mature, but just a lot of like puberty and that kind of stuff.
Speaker: So some of that might be, but that is stuff that Jack and I have always talked about and already talked about.
Speaker: It's a good book.
Speaker: I'm glad to know that that's out there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'll check that out for sure.
Speaker: You definitely should.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So let's get into it.
Speaker: Do you have a quote?
Speaker: I don't.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: My first note is I'm the freaking male version of this.
Speaker: Which happens to be a quote.
Speaker: Yes, but that's not the intended purpose.
Speaker: This is an excellent, I think, example, too, of one of the things I like about Glennon.
Speaker: She is unapologetically herself.
Speaker: And I honestly think...
Speaker: I would love to hear a reiteration of this interview now, three or two years later.
Speaker: Because I think Glennon is a different person now than she was when this... When she made a lot of these statements or said these things.
Speaker: Well, and she even said...
Speaker: When she spoke this quote that she has updated her position about this.
Speaker: Because the quote came about, she was, I think, touring for Untamed.
Speaker: And men who were in the audience would ask, where can I find the male version of this, of Untamed?
Speaker: And at the time, she would say, I'm the male version of this.
Speaker: You don't need a male author for
Speaker: in order to find yourself in this book because women find themselves in books written by men all the time.
Speaker: I had that written down too.
Speaker: We don't not read a book or evaluate it just because it's not specifically written for women.
Speaker: We don't just then completely write it off since the dawn of time.
Speaker: We have taken work that was created by men and for men and about men and learned how to – I mean, she talks about this when she gets into the Christianity.
Speaker: And learn how to take out the bits that are relevant to us because there was no other option.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And I – yeah.
Speaker: I saw that written down too where she said, I am.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But then – And then she –
Speaker: finds Justin's work.
Speaker: And actually, it sounds like she helped him quite a bit as he was making this book.
Speaker: Yeah, she was a mentor to him.
Speaker: I didn't realize that.
Speaker: And so now she tells people this is the male version of Untamed.
Speaker: Yeah, there were so many.
Speaker: That's one of the things that Liz mentioned.
Speaker: I have not read her book.
Speaker: One of his co-hosts, Liz Plank, wrote a book called For the Love of Men.
Speaker: And that's going on my list now because I have not read that.
Speaker: But she talks about the universal themes between the two books.
Speaker: There are just so many connections and that they go hand in hand.
Speaker: And it's really all about freeing ourselves from the cage.
Speaker: And I think later on in the episode, Justin talks about if Untamed is about freeing yourself from your taming, then Man Enough is about freeing, like unchaining yourself, freeing yourself from your chains.
Speaker: Yeah, I had that in my notes too.
Speaker: The armor that is...
Speaker: protecting men that men are forced to wear.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That keep them from being authentic and from feeling themselves and being embodied.
Speaker: So I guess I did have a quote.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: You did.
Speaker: You did have a quote.
Speaker: Look at that.
Speaker: That worked perfectly.
Speaker: Um...
Speaker: The next thing I have is keep your exclamation points because you can't win anyway.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: You're either not enough or you're too much.
Speaker: The way we punctuate.
Speaker: And then I said, is this unique to women?
Speaker: And then I said, how would a man handle this?
Speaker: Because this is a question that I've discussed before, we've discussed before.
Speaker: Sometimes if I find myself in a situation, particularly when it comes to professional conduct or something, I ask myself, how would a man handle it?
Speaker: And obviously, I wouldn't know because I'm not a man, but I can look to men that I have seen as models and
Speaker: figure out from that, how have I seen manhandle similar situations before?
Speaker: And a reframe that I'm trying to do maybe in situations like that is how would patriarchy reward this?
Speaker: Or how would masculinity reward this?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because...
Speaker: What he's saying that I'm trying to internalize is that so many of the things that we think of as quote unquote manly are
Speaker: are just a performance of patriarchy and masculinity, which does reward a lot of things in a professional environment.
Speaker: She says, we tell women to act more like men, but we don't tell men to act like women.
Speaker: And then really what it is, though, is how men are forced to act.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: everyone is just acting.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And we haven't uncovered the truth yet.
Speaker: Oh, no, wait, that's something different.
Speaker: But okay, so I'm just going to go ahead and lay it out.
Speaker: I'm going to ask you first because that's what I do.
Speaker: I make you uncomfortable and that's why this relationship works.
Speaker: I can almost guarantee that my response is going to be, I need more time with this.
Speaker: Yeah, well, throw it at me and then maybe let me simmer with it a little bit.
Speaker: When you hear the word masculinity, is it a thumbs up or a thumbs down for you?
Speaker: My gut reaction these days is more of a thumbs down.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That, that was kind of what I suspected.
Speaker: And, um, I am, I see you and hear you and I make space for that.
Speaker: I want to go ahead and, and say, I, I don't think it has to be a thumbs down.
Speaker: And I'm not saying you say it has to be.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think just like,
Speaker: Oh, God, this is just, oh, man, if the I'm too pretty to do math didn't revoke my feminism card before this might.
Speaker: I am I am I am currently getting curious about the idea that maybe patriarchy at its fate on its face.
Speaker: Mm hmm.
Speaker: is not necessarily a bad thing because she talks about this a little later about what is, what patriarchy actually is.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: Well, I don't know if I'm ready to say more.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: That's all right.
Speaker: In that,
Speaker: It's similar to kind of like capitalism versus socialism and the extreme version of any of those things.
Speaker: Or maybe it's not even the extreme version.
Speaker: It's just the muddy version.
Speaker: The version that has been manipulated and put down.
Speaker: So much or that's been that has just been mutated.
Speaker: Like, you know, they talk about late stage capitalism and that's not the same.
Speaker: What we're living in is more like late stage or end stage capitalism versus when maybe when capitalism started out and this is a result of greed.
Speaker: And how there are examples of socialism in other countries.
Speaker: I guess, you know, Korea would be one of them, North Korea, where that is a perverted, mutated version of socialism.
Speaker: So I think it's possible that something similar has happened to patriarchy, but it probably happened like maybe right away.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I'm just not – I'm not –
Speaker: going to say that if it's attributed to masculinity, then it's something that needs to be pushed away.
Speaker: No, I agree with that.
Speaker: And I don't,
Speaker: I try not to use masculinity and patriarchy interchangeably.
Speaker: It's hard though.
Speaker: It's hard.
Speaker: And I think that, okay, so we talk about toxic masculinity and I think we've mentioned this before.
Speaker: Maybe I have mentioned this, but in his book, actually, one of the very first things that Justin Baldoni says is, I don't believe in toxic masculinity.
Speaker: or that men are toxic.
Speaker: I believe that we're suffering from the very thing that we help perpetuate."
Speaker: He doesn't like to use the phrase toxic masculinity because that insinuates that there is a version of masculinity that is toxic.
Speaker: It's not that we don't, that's not that there's toxic masculinity, it's that they're just bad people.
Speaker: It's just that there's a perversion of masculinity.
Speaker: that has been falsely elected to represent maybe what it is.
Speaker: I don't believe that all masculinity is toxic.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I would go that far.
Speaker: And he likes, I mean, and I think from what I remember, he would argue that it's not toxic.
Speaker: It's not masculinity that's toxic.
Speaker: So it's not even, it's just not toxic masculinity.
Speaker: Like toxic masculinity doesn't exist because it's just toxicity.
Speaker: You know what I would need to see?
Speaker: I need to look up the,
Speaker: Webster's Dictionary definition of masculinity.
Speaker: You should do that on your phone because you know my computer is going to die.
Speaker: I'm going to do that right now.
Speaker: Yeah, we're doing our best here over at We Can Do Pod Things.
Speaker: We did get our microphones to work and we're super proud of that.
Speaker: But somebody left her power cord at home and that would be me.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: When she says a lot of this stuff about we tell women to act more like men, but we don't tell men to act like women, and there's no such thing as masculinity because the attributes that have been categorized as masculine aren't masculine necessarily.
Speaker: And I push back on that a little, but also at the same time, yes, I think that's true.
Speaker: I think it's the other co-host.
Speaker: I'm going to have to look his name up because I can't just keep calling him the other co-host the whole time.
Speaker: So I think your reaction to the word masculinity depends on what definition you're using.
Speaker: Oh, no.
Speaker: That couldn't possibly be right.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: So I'm finding a couple different ones.
Speaker: The first one is qualities or attributes regarded as characteristic of men or boys.
Speaker: That seems pretty harmless.
Speaker: Innocuous.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Another one is social expectations of being a man.
Speaker: Ooh.
Speaker: I don't love that one.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that one evokes some different feelings.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that really, that does go, that aligns with something Glennon says about when she's talking about patriarchy.
Speaker: Jamie Heath is the other co-host.
Speaker: There's three hosts of the Man Enough podcast, Justin Baldoni, Liz Plank, and Jamie Heath.
Speaker: And Jamie at one point had said, because they were talking about like when you're in a lesbian relationship and you're both women and like both of you are scared of spiders, like who kills the spiders?
Speaker: And like one of you has to take on the masculine traits.
Speaker: And he's like, well, I don't know.
Speaker: Maybe bravery doesn't have to be masculine.
Speaker: Like my wife is masculine and she's feminine.
Speaker: But also I would like to make the argument that your wife can also be masculine.
Speaker: Your wife can be feminine and masculine and bravery could be masculine.
Speaker: a masculine trait because there's nothing inherently wrong with feminine.
Speaker: Feminine doesn't mean less than.
Speaker: So labeling something as masculine, it doesn't give it any more inherent value.
Speaker: So there wouldn't be anything hurtful in saying bravery is masculine.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Just thinking about that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It gets tricky.
Speaker: Why can't we just call it bravery?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And we don't have to assign something that's gendered to it.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But we do.
Speaker: And this is the other thing I had to look up.
Speaker: And this is something they talk about, you know, there's no such thing as masculinity or femininity, which, you know, you can kind of get on board with, except that there are these concepts called the 12 universal laws of life.
Speaker: 12 universal laws of, yeah.
Speaker: And the 12th is the law of gender.
Speaker: Creation requires both yin and yang, both masculine and feminine energy.
Speaker: This is from the website wellismomo.com.
Speaker: The 12 laws or the 12th, 12, the law of gender.
Speaker: That's the website.
Speaker: We'll link it in the show notes.
Speaker: Sexual reproduction of species is a great example of the law of the physical world and the way that is most obvious to us.
Speaker: This concept applies to the energetic world as well.
Speaker: No creation is possible without the balance of masculine and feminine energy.
Speaker: And we talk about balance all the time.
Speaker: It is a certified bingo board item.
Speaker: So there is such a thing as masculine and feminine.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: It's hard because these are constructs and there can be debate about whether or not constructs are real.
Speaker: Just like...
Speaker: Are laws real?
Speaker: Well, they are as real as the weight and the value that we assign them in society.
Speaker: And that's what makes these things so confusing now because there are people who still assign these things a lot of weight.
Speaker: There are people who want to assign these things no weight at all.
Speaker: And there are people in the middle who
Speaker: And that's not to say that anybody is right or wrong.
Speaker: There's just a difference in how people are defining what's real.
Speaker: What makes a construct real?
Speaker: Because damn near everything is a construct.
Speaker: We are in a fucking simulation as we speak.
Speaker: So who are we to say what is real?
Speaker: This is like... Oh my God, this is a thing.
Speaker: Oh, go with it.
Speaker: No, I'm trying to collect my thought.
Speaker: You keep talking and I'll collect my thought.
Speaker: So I won't be listening to you while you talk.
Speaker: So I'll make it good.
Speaker: It's just like how we talk about when it comes to raising our children, we want to prepare them for the world and the world does expect certain things and does have certain quote unquote rules that we don't necessarily put stock into because
Speaker: But we want our children to be able to succeed in the world that we live in.
Speaker: And so how do we balance what we teach them and what tools we give them?
Speaker: We want to allow them to disrupt the system.
Speaker: We love a disruptor.
Speaker: And also a school board member that is not qualified to be on the school board saying really weird and crazy things because it makes people like me go, oh, fuck, I should probably be paying attention to this stuff.
Speaker: It's like that meme that's like, we don't put shame around sexuality, but you have to think of a different name for your hamster other than vagina.
Speaker: How do you teach your kids to...
Speaker: Be free and open and sponges to these.
Speaker: I'm going to have to get a baby book name now because I have got some.
Speaker: While also, you know, there's a delicate line of teaching them.
Speaker: to fit in and also break out but we don't want to fit in we want to belong because you know brene brown okay so what this was reminding me of was okay so what happened yesterday was um we every year um since we started it in uh the year of first grade uh my kids class we have a back to school bonfire at our house and we had our bonfire yesterday and today was my birthday and
Speaker: So one of my friends who is the mother of one of Jack's classmates stayed and we stayed up late and engaged in all kinds of just fun mind opening activities.
Speaker: And we sent Emily a voice message about an idea that I have for a little offshoot of the podcast, a little spinoff, if you will.
Speaker: And we were talking specifically about addiction and who are we to say when someone is addicted?
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Is it one glass of wine?
Speaker: Is it.08?
Speaker: Is it every day?
Speaker: Is it, I can't get through a gynecological exam without a Xanax.
Speaker: Who's to say, who are we to say that you're addicted?
Speaker: Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker: I think that that's very similar because it's all about your definition of a word.
Speaker: And it's very hard to agree with people on something when you're not even using the same definition of the word.
Speaker: How many times have I told you about arguments that I've had?
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: that were especially hurtful to me where you go, I don't think you, I think you guys aren't even talking about the same thing.
Speaker: I think it's because you and they are misunderstanding or you have a different understanding of this word than they do.
Speaker: And really that, that, that's kind of just all misunderstandings in general, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Most of the time.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: So having said that, uh, what do you, where do you want to go to next?
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: Oh, I guess I do.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So what I was saying earlier is where she says, I have been looking at this problem when there is a, professionally, like a family meeting.
Speaker: Well, if we have a problem, it's just because we haven't uncovered the truth yet.
Speaker: And then she goes, but maybe we aren't meant to uncover the truth.
Speaker: Some things aren't knowable.
Speaker: And I struggle with that.
Speaker: And I especially struggled with that at the time in my life when I first listened to this with if I'm not understanding something.
Speaker: And for her, it was in relation to she was called difficult because she was exploring this professional route and wanting to make sure that she understood things.
Speaker: And so she was trying to call these meetings and so that she could talk to people and like everyone could be on the same page.
Speaker: And she was told.
Speaker: You got to be careful.
Speaker: You're going to be labeled as difficult.
Speaker: And she was like, okay, well, all I'm trying to do is I'm just trying to understand things because I have this belief that all things are knowable.
Speaker: But maybe things aren't knowable.
Speaker: Some things aren't knowable.
Speaker: And that I still reject that in my whole core being.
Speaker: And also, it's true.
Speaker: There are going to be things that you just aren't able to know.
Speaker: And the sooner we come to accept that, I guess, the better.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm wondering if Glennon and I are sort of the same in that.
Speaker: Obviously.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: 10 out of 10.
Speaker: Me, Glennon, Justin Baldoni, same people, all of us.
Speaker: I'm a little jealous of all the mutual stardusts.
Speaker: But I wonder if we don't necessarily have to understand all the things, but we have to ask enough questions to make peace with our misunderstanding of the things.
Speaker: Well, this is grief.
Speaker: This is Colbert and Cooper and grief.
Speaker: This is, I don't have to be
Speaker: I don't have to want the thing to have happened.
Speaker: And I'm not saying you have to get there.
Speaker: I just, and I'm not saying I know how to get there.
Speaker: I'm just saying if I can get there, if I can accept this, my life is better.
Speaker: So if I can accept that some things are going to be not knowable.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: What questions do I ask to get myself to the closest thing I'm going to get in the healthiest way?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: For me and maybe Glennon and maybe Justin.
Speaker: You can't speak for the other triplets.
Speaker: I can't, but I need the space to be able to ask questions.
Speaker: questions until I'm satisfied with my unknowing.
Speaker: My unknowing, yeah.
Speaker: And that gets Glennon to be called sometimes difficult.
Speaker: And that may or may not have led to me being called someone who isn't a team player.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: I mean, what she says...
Speaker: What I learned was, oh, no, I just lost my bookmark.
Speaker: Because she says, what does difficult mean?
Speaker: I'm just trying to understand things clearly.
Speaker: And so if all I'm doing is trying to understand and that is that is difficult and too much for people.
Speaker: Then then I'm there's something wrong with me.
Speaker: I'm not enough because I think that that her answer for that was given because they ask all of their guests, when was the last time you didn't feel enough because Justin's whole thing is about enough man enough brave enough.
Speaker: It's all about enoughness.
Speaker: And she said that it was the situation where she was exploring this specific avenue in her career.
Speaker: And if I'm being difficult because I'm just asking questions because I just want to make sure I understand everything that these things that it seems like everybody else understands.
Speaker: I'm missing something.
Speaker: I'm not enough.
Speaker: I'm not smart enough or I'm not intuitive enough or intelligent or mature or whatever.
Speaker: I'm not enough.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I sat with something like this and what I arrived at is, again, it's about the definitions that we're using.
Speaker: And if you are defining someone who's easy or someone who's a team player as someone who gives you
Speaker: unquestioned loyalty and obedience, then I guess I'm not your team player.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And so that goes to where she says, if I'm feeling too small, maybe I'm just in the wrong room.
Speaker: And I know we've talked about stuff similar to that before.
Speaker: I've talked about personally, I have kind of adopted this if I'm
Speaker: If I am begging for space at a table where I used to sit comfortably, then maybe it's time for me to excuse myself from the table and go find a different one, even if I have to build it myself.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: If this is the kind of team that you want, then you're right.
Speaker: I'm not your team player.
Speaker: Nope.
Speaker: I'm not your girl.
Speaker: I'm doing the best that I can with the tools that are available to me.
Speaker: And if my best isn't good enough for you, then I am not cut out for this job.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And you should go find less.
Speaker: I didn't know.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: less, but also go find less.
Speaker: If I'm too much for you, go find less.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: What's next?
Speaker: This wasn't in the podcast, but I guess I have another quote.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Let's hear it.
Speaker: When I found out the patriarchy wasn't about horses, I lost interest anyway.
Speaker: Oh my God.
Speaker: Is that from Barbie?
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: And I love it so much.
Speaker: I think it's my new favorite movie quote.
Speaker: It is great.
Speaker: That is great.
Speaker: I lost interest.
Speaker: That's very Tina Belcher also.
Speaker: If you haven't seen Barbie yet, you guys, but you're interested in the content of this episode, can I suggest that you go see Barbie?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Just have an open mind.
Speaker: Like, and just, yeah, it's good.
Speaker: It's really good.
Speaker: And it was unexpected.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You're not, and this is not any of the Barbie movies you watched as a kid.
Speaker: You're an adult.
Speaker: So watch an adult.
Speaker: watch a movie that, I don't know.
Speaker: There's no way for me to say it's not a porn.
Speaker: It's not an adult movie.
Speaker: If you haven't seen it already, then maybe it really isn't for you.
Speaker: But, oh good.
Speaker: And for that line alone, when I found out the patriarchy wasn't about horses, I lost interest anyway.
Speaker: Was that, um, um,
Speaker: It was Ken.
Speaker: It was Ken?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It was at the end when they're having their big, spoiler alert, they're having their big come to Jesus, him and Barbie.
Speaker: Really?
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: He said that?
Speaker: He did.
Speaker: I thought that was Alec?
Speaker: I thought it was Alec.
Speaker: Alan.
Speaker: Alan.
Speaker: But okay.
Speaker: Yeah, I think I was just so, I was just in tears by the end of the movie that
Speaker: Okay, so I do, I want to get to this, this thing, where she says, I'm talking about the patriarchy.
Speaker: patriarchal system we have set up not in which men rule because I think that is a pretty common.
Speaker: Did we die?
Speaker: We did, but I don't know.
Speaker: I mean, it says we're recording, so we'll see if we have more than 34.
Speaker: This is up.
Speaker: This has happened before.
Speaker: The screen shut off.
Speaker: It went into sleep mode.
Speaker: So I don't know if it stopped recording or not, but we'll find out.
Speaker: So a patriarchal system that we've set up, not in which men rule, because I think that's a common definition of patriarchy is when we try to simplify it to explain to kids, for example, this concept that patriarchy is where men rule or men are better, men are in charge.
Speaker: It's not that.
Speaker: And then we overcorrected and we made it girls rule and boys rule.
Speaker: I mean, it's fun because it rhymes, but also when we know better, we do better.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: She says it's not that this rule or this system in which men rule, but where the characteristics that we have labeled as masculine rule, certainty, power.
Speaker: Power over people.
Speaker: Dominance.
Speaker: Preferring power.
Speaker: preferring power over people, not negotiating that being sensitive equals a failure, that those are masculine and the things that are more feminine, like curiosity, gentleness, compassion, mercy, that those are weaknesses.
Speaker: And I'm rolling that around in my head still because –
Speaker: There's light and dark.
Speaker: There has to be yin and yang.
Speaker: So there has to be a masculine and a feminine arm.
Speaker: Hip hip hop.
Speaker: Hip hop a datamus.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: Why are we saying that the masculine traits are the ones that rule or the preferable ones?
Speaker: And I think I like that definition of patriarchy a bit better.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You can use it for good or evil.
Speaker: So how is it being used?
Speaker: Do we need a better definition?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So we have gotten to the part that
Speaker: Well, we're getting, we're at the part because I'm saying we're at the part where the quote that stuck out with me the most that made me go back and say, I think we should look at this one.
Speaker: One of the questions is, how can men support women becoming untamed?
Speaker: So many good nuggets.
Speaker: So, so many good nuggets because Glennon, I think kind of is an external processor like we are.
Speaker: And so she says a lot of things in here that's really great.
Speaker: But
Speaker: The thing that I put a star around, the thing I put a star around was she says, you know what?
Speaker: I think here's what I need you guys to know.
Speaker: We're good.
Speaker: We've been handling our shit for forever.
Speaker: Thank you for asking.
Speaker: Thank you for asking.
Speaker: But we're good.
Speaker: What would be really great is if you guys figured out your shit.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Go to therapy.
Speaker: Read the books.
Speaker: Sit with your own shit.
Speaker: Deal with it so that you become safer.
Speaker: Because when you become safer, the whole world will
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But especially my world becomes safer.
Speaker: And that is it.
Speaker: And she also talks about this being also the answer to racism.
Speaker: And that racism isn't a – Black people, when it comes to racism, it's not a problem that Black people have that white people need to solve.
Speaker: Because whiteness is the problem.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Like racism is a white people problem.
Speaker: It is a problem that white people have.
Speaker: When it comes to relating to black people.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I want to update that.
Speaker: White supremacy is the problem.
Speaker: Not whiteness.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But white supremacy is the problem.
Speaker: It is a problem to be solved by white people.
Speaker: Or whoever is the dominance, the supposed dominant race.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm going to get the quote all wrong, but it's something about, I need you to realize that
Speaker: Your liberation is tied.
Speaker: If you're here to help me, you're wasting your time.
Speaker: If you're coming because your liberation is tied to mine, let us begin.
Speaker: Who said that?
Speaker: Do you know?
Speaker: I meant to look that up.
Speaker: I want to say it was Dr. Angelou, but I'm not sure.
Speaker: Oh, that sounds right.
Speaker: We need to know.
Speaker: You keep going.
Speaker: She also talks about the best thing that she can do for her daughters is go straight to the boys.
Speaker: Get to the boys earlier.
Speaker: Talk to boys.
Speaker: And that really resonated with me as a mother of a male presenting group.
Speaker: And at the time, Jack hadn't really made a decision or any kind of thoughts about his own gender identity and whether or not he was he, he, or he, they, or they, them, or...
Speaker: is get to the boys, is you teach the boys how to deal with their shit because it shouldn't be something that girls have to manage and navigate along with their own oneness and their own wholeness and embodying.
Speaker: She also talks about how when a woman becomes untamed, a man feels smaller.
Speaker: And men, and Justin talks about this in his book as well, how men think they want an untamed woman, woman, woman,
Speaker: Until they get one.
Speaker: And then they're like, oh, oh no, that's not what I meant.
Speaker: Oh shit.
Speaker: Wait a minute.
Speaker: We think it means we want this strong, powerful, independent woman until we have the strong, powerful, independent woman.
Speaker: And we realize what that means.
Speaker: That means that this person that I am choosing isn't going to just
Speaker: roll with whatever it is I say.
Speaker: Sometimes that's fun.
Speaker: Sometimes it's fun to have that friction and that debate and that yin and yang and that pushback and iron sharpening iron.
Speaker: And sometimes it's not fucking fun because it's not just...
Speaker: a practice for me.
Speaker: It's not just a abstract thing.
Speaker: It's an actual, oh shit, no, now I have to actually do some work and that's not so fun for me.
Speaker: So maybe I don't actually want an untamed and powerful woman because it requires, and the same can be said for women in reverse, it requires me to then stop and realize that if this person isn't doing this thing, then I have to do that thing.
Speaker: And is that a thing I don't actually want to be doing?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Or,
Speaker: does that actually take away my power?
Speaker: If they are doing a thing that, that I typically do, right.
Speaker: Does that take away my power or control?
Speaker: And that comes from scarcity.
Speaker: That's if we're functioning from a source of scarcity, that there can only be one on top, one person winning and women's empowerment.
Speaker: We need to reframe women's empowerment as being a woman's issue.
Speaker: And it's,
Speaker: also a lot like this that like the saying on human rights is not like a pie it doesn't if i have a bigger piece it doesn't mean you get a smaller piece exactly that doesn't mean there's less for you so i think that's really important because we are so tempted because it is easier to make things black and white and dialectical and or well not dialectical well yeah
Speaker: It's tempting to do.
Speaker: It's tempting because we need absolutes because there are, there have to be some absolutes somewhere.
Speaker: Why do you feel smaller just because I'm whole?
Speaker: This is about, then you're making it about you and not about me.
Speaker: I am guilty of this in my relationship sometimes when Justin is brave enough to be vulnerable and sometimes it gives me the ick.
Speaker: And it's because it challenges the idea that he's got to be the strong, invincible protector in our family.
Speaker: And if I'm like, oh, no, if he's not, does that mean it's got to be me?
Speaker: Because I don't want that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, spot on.
Speaker: I'm not laughing because it's funny, but I'm just laughing because –
Speaker: This is something that men and women have in common.
Speaker: Because we talk about this as women and mothers.
Speaker: I've talked about it before where one phrase that used to just get me real riled up was, I'll take care of it.
Speaker: Or don't worry about it.
Speaker: No, I do worry about it.
Speaker: Because you say you'll take care of it, but you don't actually take care of it.
Speaker: You know who takes care of it?
Speaker: Is me.
Speaker: And if you're not paying attention to this thing and you're not worried – I'm not worried about it.
Speaker: I'm not worried about it.
Speaker: Okay, cool.
Speaker: If you're not worried about it, then that means I have to be worried about it.
Speaker: Because if you're not worried about it, it's not going to get taken care of.
Speaker: This is that.
Speaker: This is that same thing, but in reverse.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And where – when it becomes inconvenient for women is when we're like, oh, I'm
Speaker: Can you go get the cars?
Speaker: I don't want to go out in the rain.
Speaker: That's the manly thing to do.
Speaker: That's the chivalrous thing to do.
Speaker: Glennon's like, I'm not taking the fucking trash out.
Speaker: I don't care who you are.
Speaker: I'm not doing it.
Speaker: It's gross.
Speaker: Okay, I'm generally not a fan of the phrase you can't have your cake and eat it too because fuck that.
Speaker: Why on earth would you have cake if you weren't planning on eating it?
Speaker: That's some psycho shit right there.
Speaker: But this is also a little – we don't get to benefit from feminism only as much as we – it isn't uncomfortable or inconvenient for us.
Speaker: Yeah, I think we're in the bringing it to consciousness phase, some of us.
Speaker: And that's a step.
Speaker: It's an important step.
Speaker: We're not racing to the finish line, but we're making steps.
Speaker: I think it would be easier, too, if we could just have some buy-in that there are more people, more men that maybe acknowledge that this is happening.
Speaker: That we didn't feel like it had to be shouting all the time to be believed because there were more people saying,
Speaker: Hey, yeah, no, you're right.
Speaker: You're right.
Speaker: We're working on it.
Speaker: We know the polar bears are dying.
Speaker: We see you.
Speaker: It's just acknowledging that.
Speaker: And then maybe we wouldn't be so bitter about here's another emotional labor that I have to do.
Speaker: Well, and for the guys, for the dudes...
Speaker: I think it's important that we acknowledge that we're sending them some mixed signals.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Because we sit around, at least I do, and I'm like, we're not asking for a lot here.
Speaker: We're just asking you to try to know yourself.
Speaker: Well, in fact, knowing yourself is kind of a lot.
Speaker: It is a lot.
Speaker: We're just asking you to be vulnerable.
Speaker: That's not such a big deal.
Speaker: It is a big deal.
Speaker: It is a big deal.
Speaker: The stuff that we're asking them to do is not easy.
Speaker: It's hard enough for women to do it.
Speaker: And society is a little bit more accepting of our healing journey.
Speaker: Yes, we've talked about this.
Speaker: It's okay for women to talk about mental health.
Speaker: And it's okay for women to be, you know, we talk about how important mental health is for women, but that focus isn't necessarily reciprocated for men just yet.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And that's a big, and honestly, when I started becoming passionate about the other side of that was after listening to this podcast and listening to Justin's book.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: And this is – I know we often hear that phrase generally when it comes to sexual assault.
Speaker: Like what if this were your wife?
Speaker: What if this were your daughter?
Speaker: What if this were your sister?
Speaker: Why do you have to relate it to somebody that you love?
Speaker: Why?
Speaker: Because that's how empathy works, guys.
Speaker: Because of course this stuff should have been important to me before I had a kid who was male presenting.
Speaker: But it wasn't.
Speaker: It wasn't relevant.
Speaker: It's not that it didn't matter.
Speaker: It just wasn't something that I spent a lot of energy thinking about until I had a reason for it to become personal.
Speaker: That's how empathy works.
Speaker: So once I started thinking about this is a responsibility of mine because I have someone that I care about that has to learn these things, that's when I bought into the idea that this isn't just a men's problem or a women's problem or a them's problem.
Speaker: I have a friend who is trudging through the nightmare of
Speaker: online dating and apps.
Speaker: And she tells me stories about these men.
Speaker: And I'm like, why are the guys so unhinged?
Speaker: What is the matter?
Speaker: Well, can we blame lead poisoning?
Speaker: GI Joe.
Speaker: I'm not being very generous.
Speaker: I mean, some of the stuff that these guys do is indefensible, but a lot of the stuff that they do is because they don't live in a world where they can be anything other than a freaking disaster.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And Justin talks about that in the beginning.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So Glennon is talking about in her book where
Speaker: She comes in and asks the group of kids.
Speaker: It's a mix of boys and girls.
Speaker: Are you hungry?
Speaker: The boys, without even looking at the TV screen, answer yes.
Speaker: The girls, without saying a word to each other, look at each other.
Speaker: And then one gets selected telepathically as the spokeswoman.
Speaker: And they say, no, we're good.
Speaker: And this is one of the things that she doubles back on and walks back.
Speaker: That she said in the book it's because boys are socialized and conditioned to look into themselves for the answer.
Speaker: Are conditioned to look at each other.
Speaker: And Justin says, but we're not.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because in his book he talks about one of his first exposures to masculinity and something that he had to undefine.
Speaker: was when they were going to jump off of a cliff.
Speaker: Literally, if your friends are going to jump off a cliff and they tell you to, would you too, over an ocean.
Speaker: But his body told him no.
Speaker: His body was like, nah, I don't want to do this.
Speaker: And then his buddies called him a pussy.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And a girl and all those other things that we say to men because God forbid you be like a woman.
Speaker: But –
Speaker: Then when he learned that being a man meant ignoring his intuition.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And not looking within himself.
Speaker: Yeah, it's just circumstantial.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But we are all following our conditioning.
Speaker: It was just in the situation that Glennon described, their conditioning, it made it easier for them to say, yeah, we'll take whatever food you have in the fridge.
Speaker: They were...
Speaker: They were conditioned for her.
Speaker: She said their conditioning there was to be certain.
Speaker: And that is that whole, that can, oh God, I didn't, I don't know that we're going to have the battery on the laptop to get into this, but that's that whole, you can't tell me nothing.
Speaker: Doubling down, refusing to see anyone else's perspective.
Speaker: If you have been conditioned your whole entire life, that it doesn't matter whether or not you're right or wrong, you just have to
Speaker: Be certain.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that's been reinforced.
Speaker: And that's tied to your identity and your value as a human.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No fucking wonder it's going to be hard to get people to say, oh, I don't know.
Speaker: I need to think about that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because what that means, what their little corrupt data centers have learned is that means you're not going to be safe.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because you are less.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: I need to, in the interest of if we do run out of time, I've got to correct this.
Speaker: Dr. Angelou says a lot of fantastic things about liberation.
Speaker: However, that quote was not one of hers.
Speaker: And it is credited to Lilla, L-I-L-L-A.
Speaker: I am assuming that's Lilla.
Speaker: could be Lila Watson, but she herself does not like to take credit for that quote because she says that she had been part of an Aboriginal rights group in Queensland
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I'm not sure where we got cut off because my beloved children came in with urgent requests that they had to make from me.
Speaker: It was about a bracelet.
Speaker: But Lilla Watson does not like to take exclusive credit either for that quote because she says she was part of an Aboriginal rights group in Queensland.
Speaker: They came up with the phrase together.
Speaker: So that is the history of your quote.
Speaker: Can you read it again?
Speaker: If you're coming to me, if you come here to help me, you're wasting your time.
Speaker: But if you're coming because your liberation is tied to mine, let us begin.
Speaker: And for my kids, if you're coming here for my help, you're wasting your time.
Speaker: You're wasting everybody's time.
Speaker: Just don't.
Speaker: You gotta go.
Speaker: Be busy.
Speaker: Listen, if I'm helping you, then that means I'm not doing something else that I want to be doing.
Speaker: But I love you.
Speaker: Save it for later.
Speaker: Save it.
Speaker: Any final thoughts?
Speaker: I want to talk about like maybe a core patriarchal memory for me or maybe I don't know.
Speaker: but it's a core memory of deprogramming.
Speaker: And we used to watch this, one of these, this TV, this TV show.
Speaker: And I won't mention which one it was or who the actors were, because I don't, I think when we know better, we do better.
Speaker: But the, the characters were, it was a husband and wife and they loved each other very much.
Speaker: Typical husband and wife spats and problems.
Speaker: And in one TV show, one TV show, one episode, she, he helps her cook dinner.
Speaker: She asks him to help cook dinner.
Speaker: And he talks about the way that he cuts the onion and the best way to cut an onion.
Speaker: And she realizes later on in the show that she is less sexually attracted to him when he talks about cooking or when he's being helpful.
Speaker: And so she needs, in order to be sexually attracted to her husband and to love her husband, he needs to be less helpful and needs to be
Speaker: knowledgeable, less knowledgeable about things, quote unquote, for women.
Speaker: And I'm sure that some of the nuance of that was that, yeah, that is a fucked up thing, but it was a sitcom and it was funny.
Speaker: And that, but that was, that was a little bit of programming that I went ahead and filed away that I subconsciously watered and it took root.
Speaker: And that's a deprogramming that I have to go through.
Speaker: And that's relevant to women.
Speaker: becoming untamed and men becoming unchained.
Speaker: Well, if I said, raise your hand if you never went through a bad boy phase, not a hand in this room is going up because, I mean, I'm sure we both did and... Facts.
Speaker: Many, many, many people that I know.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We've discussed why.
Speaker: We talked about the theories.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: I will say, though, I'm going to say it right now.
Speaker: You come up to me and you want to talk about cooking me dinner?
Speaker: It's the opposite for me.
Speaker: It's the opposite of this TV character as the panty dropper, so to speak.
Speaker: Ew, I did not just say that on here.
Speaker: God, I hope Mr. Little doesn't listen to this episode.
Speaker: If he does, pretend you didn't hear that.
Speaker: If you heard that, no, you didn't.
Speaker: No, you didn't.
Speaker: You heard wrong.
Speaker: You need to get your hearing checked.
Speaker: Any final thoughts from you?
Speaker: I did want to say I liked at the very end when she talks about, so where are the safe places that men can unpack some of this stuff?
Speaker: Because there aren't enough of them.
Speaker: For a lot of men, if you start going to your buddies talking about this stuff, it's not going to go well.
Speaker: These are just the facts.
Speaker: So where can that happen for men?
Speaker: And she said books.
Speaker: Books, yeah.
Speaker: Books are where we can start to explore these things.
Speaker: We can learn people's stories without annoying them.
Speaker: Without being too much.
Speaker: I love that in that, and I think it's in his book, he does talk about taking a boys weekend with his closest friends and just being absolutely terrified because it was like, hey, we need to talk about this shit and we're going to get uncomfortable because we're talking about feelings, man.
Speaker: We are not, we're not, this is not sports and boobs.
Speaker: This is,
Speaker: Other stuff.
Speaker: And it isn't just the talking about it in the moment.
Speaker: It is the trust that after the weekend is over, your friends are not going to go talk about how vulnerable you were in a derogatory way and put you down.
Speaker: And that's a hard thing to know if you don't have any experience, if you don't have any...
Speaker: reason to think that they're going to be able to do that because you guys have never tried that before.
Speaker: This is something new.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: If it's never been safe for you to be in your body embodied, then you're not going to want to do that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And anyone who does try to do that,
Speaker: That's a threat to you.
Speaker: But it doesn't have to be a threat.
Speaker: It's just something that stops and makes us think.
Speaker: And we hope that this episode has made you stop and think and that the conclusion you came to wasn't that you have wasted entire time.
Speaker: entirely too much time listening to us.
Speaker: Although if you do believe so, then that is blessings on your day.
Speaker: Thank you for spending as much time as you did.
Speaker: Bye-bye.
Speaker: But yeah, what do you guys think about this episode?
Speaker: We talked a lot about men and what we think they think.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: If you're a man and you have actual, if you have something lived that you can contribute to this conversation, please, we invite you to do so.
Speaker: Oh my God, yes.
Speaker: And we won't call you out by name this time, but you know who you are.
Speaker: Your name starts with a C and ends with an egg.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think one final thing that kind of relates to that is Glennon touches on this men are conditioned not to ask questions and like, oh, you can't ask for help.
Speaker: You can't ask questions like where is something.
Speaker: That's not true because men do ask questions.
Speaker: But maybe men are more conditioned to ask the questions that they already know the answers to.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Or men are only conditioned to ask questions that don't reveal their vulnerabilities.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: So if any men out there have some questions that they would like to ask, whether it's something vulnerable or something that they think they already know the answer to, hit us up.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Find us at podthingspodcast at gmail.com or on Instagram at wecandopodthings with underscores between the words or on TikTok.
Speaker: Just search for wecandopodthings.
Speaker: I don't remember what the direct at sign is.
Speaker: Or just stop in to wish Annalisa a happy birthday.
Speaker: Yeah, you can do that too.
Speaker: I would always love that.
Speaker: And you know what else I love, Emily?
Speaker: Our listeners.
Speaker: Me too.
Speaker: And you know what else I love?
Speaker: You.
Speaker: I love you back.
Speaker: I love you so, so much.
Speaker: I love all of you guys.
Speaker: And I love being 36.
Speaker: And now I'm going to be 37.
Speaker: Although there was a brief period of time where I was telling everyone I was 38.
Speaker: And somebody was like, honey, I think you need to check the math.
Speaker: I was like, oh, yeah.
Speaker: So anyway, I'm the Annalise one.
Speaker: I'm the Annalise one.
Speaker: And this has been We Can Do Pod Things.
Speaker: Thank you so much.
Speaker: Bye.
