Transcript
Speaker: Hello, Mike Pedito.
Speaker: Hello, Scott.
Speaker: How are you?
Speaker: Doing really well.
Speaker: Thank you so much for coming on the Hiring Great Talent podcast.
Speaker: First and foremost, just wanted you to introduce yourself a little bit, talk a little bit about your background and experience.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: I am someone who has been in talent acquisition now for a long time.
Speaker: Originally pulled by you to come be a recruiter at OpenArc as a giant career shift for me almost a decade ago at this point.
Speaker: And since then, I bounced around to a few different companies, mostly in the startup world, helping everything from setting up processes at companies that really have nothing in place yet, building out some outsourcing facilities for companies, and setting up kind of internship programs and just helping these smaller companies grow.
Speaker: And then since then, I've really started to take on a bit of
Speaker: coaching and career guidance and some things like that as well because I've just learned a lot and I think I have a lot to kind of give to people and you know from being in this that hiring is full of bad information from a lot of people who aren't really there day to day so it's become a very kind of big passion of mine to try and fight as much of it as possible
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: I appreciate the shout out, recognizing that you would be good at this.
Speaker: And that's really all it was, like just knowing that you are always very good at having conversations with people and that kind of innate desire to help.
Speaker: You kind of mentioned there that there's like bad advice out there.
Speaker: What's some of the common bad advice or the major ones you really want to kind of put it into?
Speaker: Yeah, there's unlimited numbers, unlimited pieces of bad advice.
Speaker: Um, the one that boils my blood the most, um, I posted about on LinkedIn today.
Speaker: Uh, if you follow me on Tik TOK, you'll see that like, it's one out of every like four videos I make at this point is this trend right now where people are being told to skip applying to the job.
Speaker: Um, the job market is as most people involved know very bad right now.
Speaker: It's oversaturated.
Speaker: There aren't enough jobs for people and everyone's looking for a leg up.
Speaker: And a lot of people who aren't really involved in hiring, but have done a good job of establishing themselves as a voice, give advice like instead of applying for the job, message the hiring manager.
Speaker: Or instead of applying for the job, do this.
Speaker: And the point I constantly try and get people to make is you can do all of that.
Speaker: You can message a hiring manager.
Speaker: You can go around.
Speaker: You can try all these other things to get attention.
Speaker: That's all fine.
Speaker: But you have to apply to the job.
Speaker: I can tell you as someone who has been hiring very recently at startup companies that used to only get 10 applications when we opened a role, it was all about us going to find people.
Speaker: Now, when a startup company you've never heard of opens a role, they get 500 applications that day.
Speaker: And of that 500, I get 200 emails from people reaching out about the job.
Speaker: So it's very unlikely your email is going to be read or noticed.
Speaker: And if you've never applied, your resume is not in the system and it's not going to get seen there either.
Speaker: So it's very dangerous, but it's catchy because people want to find the workaround.
Speaker: People want a magic fix.
Speaker: And what I focus most of my time on is that there is no magic fix to hiring.
Speaker: There's no answer to this.
Speaker: It's just doing the right things until something sticks.
Speaker: Yeah, as someone that's in talent acquisition in companies, I'm sure you've got plenty of those reach outs, plenty of those direct emails, plenty of those LinkedIn messages.
Speaker: But correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like a lot of those circumstances, you also have an applicant tracking system.
Speaker: that that's going to be in place.
Speaker: So I think at a minimum, you know, it's not a one or the other, right?
Speaker: It's like, no matter what, make sure you apply.
Speaker: And then you can do all these kind of tricky things or on top of that.
Speaker: Yeah, that's exactly the point.
Speaker: And you'll see a lot of videos and it's, it's right.
Speaker: I'm going to reference TikTok a lot because that's where I spend a lot of this time.
Speaker: What's your, what's your TikTok handle?
Speaker: My TikTok handle is at Realistic Recruiting.
Speaker: You can find all of my links in there if you go there.
Speaker: But there is, you know, in TikTok, it's very easy to find the right hook or find the right way that like if you get people watching your video for more than three seconds, they're going to watch the rest.
Speaker: And it's very easy to build a following.
Speaker: So you'll see a lot of people with 500,000 followers who are labeled career coaches.
Speaker: But what they've done is sort of gotten two jobs in their career.
Speaker: But they've never actually been in the room where hiring happens.
Speaker: And it makes a very big difference.
Speaker: Yeah, and what they don't understand is that like they may have gotten a job by reaching out to somebody and it worked.
Speaker: And I know people have hired that way.
Speaker: I know that it can work, but it is more unlikely that it won't work.
Speaker: So you need to be in that applicant tracking system.
Speaker: Your resume does need to be in.
Speaker: I made this video when I first got on there.
Speaker: It was like my first day on there.
Speaker: And the first thing I saw was people pitching this advice and my mind was blown.
Speaker: I was like, is this what's happening on here?
Speaker: So I stitched with this video that was just like,
Speaker: look at this.
Speaker: I had just come off of a job search.
Speaker: I'd been laid off in November.
Speaker: I was unemployed for 105 days.
Speaker: And I showed my dozens and dozens and dozens of emails that I sent to hiring managers and recruiters that were never opened, never read, never responded.
Speaker: And I got interviews at some of those companies because I was in the system and they found my resume and they still interviewed me, but they never saw my message because they had hundreds of them.
Speaker: And it was just such dangerous advice to tell people to not apply to a job.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So you heard it here from Mr. Perdido, always, always, always apply.
Speaker: You can do things on top of that, but don't listen to anyone who's telling you not to put your resume into the system.
Speaker: And any other pieces of bad advice out there you've been seeing on TikTok or anywhere else?
Speaker: I mean, so that's the most dangerous to me.
Speaker: Here's one that's going around and people all have different views of this, but a very hot topic on TikTok and
Speaker: talent acquisition, LinkedIn, and anywhere you go right now is the final question of an interview.
Speaker: There's a big trend right now of a lot of people saying, here's the question to ask that'll get you a job.
Speaker: Which first of all, there's never an anything that causes anything when it comes to job, job searching.
Speaker: You know, I always say like you did X and you got the job.
Speaker: You didn't get the job because you did X. And it's a very big difference.
Speaker: So this big trend right now is to say is a final question.
Speaker: It comes from the sales world.
Speaker: Do you have any hesitations about me as a candidate as like the final question?
Speaker: And a lot of people love it.
Speaker: But the thing is, every recruiter and hiring manager and people involved in interviewing don't love it, except for maybe in like sales positions, right?
Speaker: There are going to be places where they don't.
Speaker: But
Speaker: That's another one of those situations where people would say, well, I asked this and it got me the job.
Speaker: And you don't know that.
Speaker: You don't know that that's what got you the job.
Speaker: It didn't cost you the job is what happened.
Speaker: But, you know, if you talk to a lot of people in hiring, they will tell you the questions off-putting.
Speaker: For one, it focuses on the negative.
Speaker: It's asking the interview to end on a negative instead of the final pitch for yourself, which by itself is a bad idea.
Speaker: Also, and it would be the equivalent of after a first interview, if a recruiter were to say to you, if I offered you this job today, do you have any hesitations about taking it?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Like, of course you do.
Speaker: You need to sit on it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's the proper way, you know, if you need to find a middle ground here is at some point closer to the middle of the interview to say something along the lines of.
Speaker: Is there anything at this point that I could clarify further that maybe I didn't explain that well?
Speaker: Any questions you sort of have about some of the things I've talked about?
Speaker: And that gives you the opportunity to turn it to a positive.
Speaker: But to end with that sort of gotcha question is very positively viewed by a lot of job seekers and by a lot of people like making content on the Internet, but very negatively viewed by the people making the decisions.
Speaker: And I think people need to understand that risk a lot more.
Speaker: Yeah, I really liked your analogy of it's akin to a hiring manager asking a candidate at the end of interview, is there anything that would stop you from accepting this position if offered?
Speaker: That's a lot of pressure to put on somebody in a conversation.
Speaker: It's a lot of pressure to put on the hiring manager for them to tell you the things they're not liking, especially at the end.
Speaker: What do you think about, you know, and maybe this is more because we're recruiters.
Speaker: I've always kind of liked this idea.
Speaker: If you're in like a talent acquisition space, kind of calling out the potential red flags they might see in you.
Speaker: You know, for instance, if like I were to be interviewing for,
Speaker: like a recruiter position after I moved into management, I might say something along the lines of like, I would think that if I were in your position, I would have this, I would have this concern about me.
Speaker: Here's, you know, how I would address it.
Speaker: Any thoughts on that?
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I think it can be done if done tactfully.
Speaker: I think the decision has to be, if you're going to do something like that, is this a question that is going to come up?
Speaker: Or am I raising something that might not matter?
Speaker: So that's a big thing.
Speaker: In a situation like that, the question is probably going to come up.
Speaker: Why are you moving from a director back to a non-management role?
Speaker: It's a conversation that's going to be a concern.
Speaker: For sure.
Speaker: For me, for example, you know, over the last few years between the way startup worlds work and all the layoffs and everything else is going on, right?
Speaker: All of a sudden my resume has become a bit more jumpy than has been in the past.
Speaker: Most of my work,
Speaker: departures have a good explanation to them.
Speaker: But I have a resume that goes from like 10 years at a company to six years at a company to five months to 15 months to a few months.
Speaker: And I know that's going to be a question.
Speaker: So I do approach that, right?
Speaker: As I walk through that, I do say like, yeah, I'm sure the question's going to be what caused this to go so quick after so long.
Speaker: I'm happy to, I give it to them though.
Speaker: I'm happy to dive into it.
Speaker: Or if you'd rather spend the time right now talking about something else, we can do that as well.
Speaker: They always want to dive into it.
Speaker: But like it's giving them an out sometimes just to say like, hey, I know the industry.
Speaker: There's a lot of people do.
Speaker: And then maybe that's why that's more for people in recruiting, knowing that if we were seeing these specific things on someone we were interviewing, that those are the concerns that we have.
Speaker: And we're kind of more about addressing that up front.
Speaker: We've talked a lot about bad advice out there.
Speaker: what's some of the advice you really want to get across to people who are in the search, like good advice, things to do?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I essentially have like five things that I say to always keep in mind.
Speaker: Good advice is tough because good advice when it comes to job searching is sort of accepting that like there is no perfect advice.
Speaker: And that's sort of like the general one rule there is if you're looking for like the magic trick to get a job,
Speaker: It doesn't work like that.
Speaker: So the classic advice stays, right?
Speaker: A great resume is always going to be your best tool.
Speaker: And I do talk a lot about resumes and I work with a lot of people on their resumes.
Speaker: And, you know, when 2000 people apply, are there going to be good resumes that just don't get seen and move on?
Speaker: Yes, that's unfortunately how the market is right now.
Speaker: But a great resume is always going to be a first thing.
Speaker: But, you know, it's accepting there's no universal rule.
Speaker: It can be as simple as,
Speaker: One person says one page resumes only and one says two page resumes only and neither of them are wrong.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: It's just what they're doing.
Speaker: The other is understanding anecdotal evidence is just anecdotal evidence.
Speaker: And that goes back to what I talked about with the in-mails.
Speaker: Understand like just because someone tells you something that they did doesn't mean drop what you're doing and change your approach and go do it another way.
Speaker: The other ties to it, understanding not everyone
Speaker: knows what they're talking about and everything.
Speaker: I think we have a kind of knack in this world of all becoming experts on everything immediately.
Speaker: So understanding where your advice is coming from.
Speaker: And then a big one, a big two I like to focus on is one, you have to accept failure is inevitable.
Speaker: You know, the first video I ever went viral with on TikTok was like the most depressing data in the world that I was giving off of this like recent compilation of data that basically says 2% of candidates get interviews.
Speaker: when they apply to a job.
Speaker: That's such a small number.
Speaker: Like the average person's getting 2% of interviews.
Speaker: On my last job search, I track all data and I share this with people constantly.
Speaker: I got interviews at 10% of the jobs I applied to.
Speaker: Now I'm someone who, if there are tricks and tips and magic and everything you can do, should know it all.
Speaker: And I only got 10% of interviews in places I applied.
Speaker: And then of those, I got rejected, all of them except for one job.
Speaker: So you have to accept the failure and understand that you're not just messing up constantly.
Speaker: And then you have to understand this was a lot, I guess, but that there is no such thing as most qualified.
Speaker: We have a knack and I did this a lot in the job search.
Speaker: If I didn't get a job, I was second or third place.
Speaker: I would wait for the new person to start.
Speaker: And I would like see, you know, I'd go to the company page.
Speaker: I'd see who'd start and I'd compare myself to them.
Speaker: And you can't do that.
Speaker: There's no way to know.
Speaker: You know, there's a best candidate for a company at a time.
Speaker: But like most qualified doesn't mean most years of experience.
Speaker: It doesn't mean most this or most that.
Speaker: It's this combination that you can't really catch what it is.
Speaker: So it's another thing you just have to accept and sort of drop that idea of like, oh, they hired someone less qualified than me.
Speaker: That will tank you on a job search.
Speaker: A couple of things I wanted to unpack there.
Speaker: You know, I like what you said about like, you know, kind of get comfortable with the fact that things aren't going to work out.
Speaker: I don't know that for you or anybody else, I would would call it a failure, you know, especially if you are, you know, getting it, getting in the process, getting it.
Speaker: It's just part of it.
Speaker: Not not everybody.
Speaker: gets the job.
Speaker: If you have one job open, you can have multiple qualified candidates, quote unquote qualified candidates, interviewing for the position.
Speaker: And there are so many different reasons why one candidate might get chosen over another that it's not a failure.
Speaker: It's an experience and very much part of the process.
Speaker: Additionally, I know you experienced this at OpenArc, and I imagine you experienced this in your other roles since.
Speaker: Hiring managers aren't perfect either.
Speaker: They make mistakes.
Speaker: They hire the wrong candidate.
Speaker: And then some come back to the right candidate that, you know, we're not always right either, but that we felt was the best candidate for them.
Speaker: And, you know, so just because, you know, this person doesn't select you doesn't even necessarily mean that was the right choice.
Speaker: They're human beings as well and are making the best decisions they can with the information they have available.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And this is something I've talked a lot about in videos too, is like, you are right.
Speaker: You know, maybe failure is the wrong word because you're not necessarily doing it wrong.
Speaker: But I think I used failure because if you're unemployed and looking for a job, none of that pays your bills until you get the job.
Speaker: So it's, you know, it's ultimately the only success is getting a job when you're on the job search, but there are things that aren't bad that have happened.
Speaker: So that is true.
Speaker: And yeah, everyone makes mistakes.
Speaker: Nobody's perfect.
Speaker: And I do think that
Speaker: This comes on both ends and I get this a lot on TikTok because, you know, I often am on there representing the side of a company, but on the behalf of trying to help a candidate, which is, I think is like a weird stance people think of, right?
Speaker: I'm not here to make videos about like how it should be is what I always say.
Speaker: Like, you can come in my comments, we can argue all day on live, whatever you want to do about like how it should be and how the world would be more perfect and all this could work.
Speaker: People need a job now.
Speaker: So let's talk about how it just is and how to kind of navigate this.
Speaker: And if you want to lead the revolution that changes how everything is down the line for the future generations, that is amazing.
Speaker: But right now, people still need a job.
Speaker: So we're going to focus on that.
Speaker: And that's part of it is accepting that, like, yeah, these companies aren't perfect.
Speaker: There's there's no such thing as a perfect hiring process, just like there's no perfect candidate.
Speaker: You know, I've done so many different types of interview processes and
Speaker: I can say, okay, on this technical interview, we're going to give you a live coding assignment with one of our developers.
Speaker: And half of the people are going to hate that and say, it's a terrible idea.
Speaker: And I can say, fine, there's a take home assignment.
Speaker: And half of the people are going to hate that and say, it's a terrible idea.
Speaker: Okay, we're gonna do a textbook test.
Speaker: Everyone hates that too.
Speaker: Like there's no perfect way to do it.
Speaker: So companies make a decision that feels right for them to try and find the best value move for them.
Speaker: And they can't please everyone.
Speaker: And just like a candidate can't please every company either.
Speaker: And I think sometimes
Speaker: And I get it.
Speaker: I think job candidates sometimes forget the like human element of the company side.
Speaker: That a company can be a giant conglomerate, but it is also still full of people.
Speaker: Like there's still me on the other end, just trying to make it work.
Speaker: You're absolutely right.
Speaker: Like, you know, and to your point about all the advice being out there, like a lot of the kind of advice you see is, you know, and I understand where it comes from, for sure, but it can be like anti-employer.
Speaker: And, you know, they're these faceless, you know, organizations that just want to like screw over.
Speaker: The people coming on board, but like, you know, being on the sides that we've been on, like they're humans too, and that's their job.
Speaker: And they're just trying to do their job in the best of their ability.
Speaker: And this market in talent acquisition, you know, there's a lot of fear out there.
Speaker: I mean, you've been on both ends, right?
Speaker: Where you've been on the talent acquisition side, you know, you're looking for positions.
Speaker: What's your perception of the market from kind of both angles?
Speaker: The market is hard right now.
Speaker: And that's what made me even kind of start this TikTok is there's so much going on and nobody knows how to handle it on all ends.
Speaker: From the candidate or from the client side and the company side, I had this video that I posted on a Sunday night where I made a mistake of logging into my ATS system just to look at like what I had coming up.
Speaker: You've seen that one.
Speaker: I had like 500 applicants for every job we had that came in over the weekend.
Speaker: I was like, these are my Sunday scaries.
Speaker: And I think I've been said in that, like when you think there's just like some machine on the other end, when it's like us versus them, I'm them.
Speaker: Like I'm who's here trying to just like sort this.
Speaker: And that's hard.
Speaker: And I don't think candidates know that, but I get why they don't care either because they're unemployed and they're frustrated and they're sending in applications by the dozens and by the hundreds and not hearing back.
Speaker: And as a candidate myself, I know these things.
Speaker: So I find myself able to be more patient with it and understand it, but I get why people can't.
Speaker: So that's where I've sort of tried to find this merging of like, hey, I do get it.
Speaker: I've been on this with you.
Speaker: I just went through it.
Speaker: There's no fix.
Speaker: And that's what I always go back to.
Speaker: People are just like, I'm sick of hearing ideas.
Speaker: I don't know how to fix it.
Speaker: And I'll just tell them, we can't.
Speaker: It's just you can't.
Speaker: I can't.
Speaker: I don't know how to change the world.
Speaker: I'm just one person here with some advice on what it's like.
Speaker: Follow it or don't.
Speaker: Take it or leave it.
Speaker: That's all OK.
Speaker: But I want you to understand just sort of like here's what it's like on all sides and the best things to try to navigate it.
Speaker: But it's hard.
Speaker: It's so frustrating being a candidate right now.
Speaker: What did you do?
Speaker: You know, I remember seeing that TikTok and there were I think you had four or five positions open.
Speaker: and there were 100, one to 200, how do you get through that workload?
Speaker: You know, I don't know that there's a perfect answer.
Speaker: It's the time that you have to start to go through it.
Speaker: Depending on roles, are there things where there's an absolute must?
Speaker: You know, if I'm coming from a company, if we're talking about a SaaS sales background and I got 200 resumes, I'm going to check who's been selling software as a service before I even like look at other things.
Speaker: So sometimes you can narrow it down.
Speaker: But honestly, it's a matter of just going through it.
Speaker: For myself personally, I can quickly gauge.
Speaker: There's this stat out there and people misinterpret it.
Speaker: This is like a recruiter spends an average of like six or seven seconds looking at your resume.
Speaker: And I think that gives people the wrong idea.
Speaker: It doesn't mean that's all we spend.
Speaker: But it's an average because from my experience, I can look at a resume for a specific role that I know and put you into one of three piles pretty quickly.
Speaker: Like an absolutely yes, I see exactly what I need really quickly.
Speaker: Absolutely not.
Speaker: I can just tell that just like something big is missing here or I'm not sure.
Speaker: Let's spend further on it.
Speaker: So that six second average comes because there's a lot of absolutely not.
Speaker: So I'm just like, it's not the right background.
Speaker: I can just tell.
Speaker: I move on.
Speaker: There's a lot of absolutely yeses.
Speaker: And I'm going to move them to an interview stage and spend more time looking at their resume.
Speaker: But for now, I don't need to sit and memorize their resume.
Speaker: And then people I'm going to dig in further on just to sort of like pull up the companies on LinkedIn or dig in, just see what like some of this is to make sure I'm not making a rash judgment.
Speaker: And I set up interviews with people that are yeses and continue filtering resumes as you can.
Speaker: And that's why I said there's a lot of bad luck sometimes.
Speaker: You know, when 500 people apply, even if 400 are qualified, we can't interview a 400.
Speaker: We just can't.
Speaker: So there's a lot of bad luck sometimes.
Speaker: There just is.
Speaker: If I found 20 that I liked and that's what we said we can hire out of that 20, like you don't want me to keep interviewing you as a candidate.
Speaker: You don't want me to just interview every single person, even though you know.
Speaker: It would take six months to get through.
Speaker: And then obviously the people that were good that you interviewed in January would not be available by the time you made the decision.
Speaker: I think it really highlights kind of your big push out there, which is how important
Speaker: the resume is because if someone in talent acquisition, if a hiring manager across the board is not seeing what they need to see in the resume,
Speaker: the likelihood of it moving forward is pretty low.
Speaker: A piece of advice I've always offered very much in line with that is you should tailor your resume as much as possible for every opportunity that you're going for.
Speaker: And the job description a lot of times will be pretty clear about what the most important thing is, what the must have is, and if you don't have that highlighted on your resume,
Speaker: Even if you're the perfect candidate for the job, it's not likely to pass that six second smell test.
Speaker: Yeah, there's a lot of back and forth about that.
Speaker: The making your resume tailored for every role.
Speaker: And a lot of people don't want to do it because they're burned out and they're like, I'm not going to get an interview anyway.
Speaker: And they totally get it.
Speaker: And what I usually tell people is like, you don't always have to.
Speaker: There's sort of families of jobs.
Speaker: So for me, for example, I have a good resume.
Speaker: It's two pages.
Speaker: It's full of my experience.
Speaker: It is full of data and results and sort of the areas I've worked in.
Speaker: And I know the jobs I'm applying to and that I have what I need in this resume for those jobs to stand out.
Speaker: Now, so I don't have to change it every time, but there might be a job where they work in a specific industry where there's a specific knowledge or thing in that job description.
Speaker: I'm saying, OK, that's not in my resume, but I do it.
Speaker: So I'm going to add it for this one.
Speaker: But in general, I don't think you have to change it.
Speaker: We are recording now, just so you know, so you might end up on the internet if you come say hi.
Speaker: Hi, Kara.
Speaker: Hi.
Speaker: We're posting.
Speaker: You're going to be on the internet with us?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: There's a potential?
Speaker: There's a potential now.
Speaker: This is very watchable.
Speaker: Hi, Kara.
Speaker: Yeah, and I think that might be another one of those things that's, you know, when you're in talent acquisition in some way, you know, we kind of intrinsically understand this.
Speaker: So, you know, I think your resume over time, you know what to include on there, what's not.
Speaker: But how many times have you seen, at least working on the contingency side, but maybe in other ones as well, the person has the experience, but it's just not highlighted very well or just not listed.
Speaker: And you know, if the hiring manager doesn't see this,
Speaker: they're going to pass.
Speaker: And that's when I'll make that recommendation and be like, listen, I know I can see this because I'm actually spending the time talking to you and going into this.
Speaker: I believe you can do whatever it is,.NET development, agile project management, but I only see agile on your resume one time and that might not be enough instances of it, that might not be enough highlight to get it in for this agile scrum project management position and technology focus.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that's where it comes down to having like a really good resume.
Speaker: If you have a good, strong resume, then you probably don't have to alter it every time.
Speaker: If your resume is not that great.
Speaker: Or the other thing I would say is if you are one of these people who operates in like a career gray area where you're sort of an office admin and you're sort of marketing and you've sort of done some sales and like we've all had roles like this in our life.
Speaker: And now you're kind of going after some sales roles and some marketing roles and some admin roles.
Speaker: You're going to need to tailor resumes.
Speaker: You're going to need resumes that highlight what matters for each of those jobs rather than this one universal resume.
Speaker: But if you are a 10 year veteran software engineer, you probably have the things in your resume at this point that like matter for the next job.
Speaker: or you need a better resume.
Speaker: But if you have a good resume, you probably don't have to change it specifically for every single role you're applying to.
Speaker: So it comes down to that great base resume.
Speaker: And if you're in that same family of jobs every time, you're probably okay.
Speaker: But be open to making some changes now and then.
Speaker: And now with AI... Yeah, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Talk about that because I've been finding a lot of it...
Speaker: aspects of AI in the career space and the talent space to be very, very interesting?
Speaker: What are some of the things that you've seen or maybe even using?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I'm really torn here.
Speaker: Me too.
Speaker: Now, there are two sides to this.
Speaker: There is me, the talent acquisition professional, who knows that nobody can outwrite me on a resume.
Speaker: I shouldn't say nobody, but knows that a computer cannot outwrite
Speaker: I know that I can make a better resume for myself than AI can make no matter how many prompts I feed into it.
Speaker: And I've experimented and I've tried and I've brought them over and over again to other resumes.
Speaker: Have you done like the whole job description and your resume?
Speaker: I've added prompts to job descriptions and saying, add some data, look at my LinkedIn and add this.
Speaker: And it never comes out better than what I write.
Speaker: But I know I'm unique and that's not going to be for everybody.
Speaker: A lot of people don't even know how to get started on a resume.
Speaker: So I do think it can be very helpful as a starting point if people are going to use chat GPT or something like that to write their resume.
Speaker: But I think you have to spend the time to fix it from there.
Speaker: I don't think it's ever going to perform.
Speaker: It reads like a computer wrote it.
Speaker: It reads too gimmicky.
Speaker: It just it doesn't work that well.
Speaker: Now, there are good tools.
Speaker: Full disclosure, I do have a contract with this company, Teal, that
Speaker: uses like AI to make resumes and job trackers and some really cool tools that are free for people.
Speaker: They're a little bit more specific.
Speaker: What they will actually do is take a job description you put into the tracker.
Speaker: It'll highlight all the keywords for you in there.
Speaker: It'll compare it to your resume.
Speaker: It'll show you what keywords are there that are not on your resume and sort of give you this like general score from there.
Speaker: And then you can add bullet points based off of the
Speaker: the keywords it's showing you into your resume, you can write them yourself or have AI do it.
Speaker: I prefer to write it myself, but other people will have AI do it.
Speaker: It can also write you an AI cover letter and it can then auto fill the application for you online.
Speaker: So like the auto fill of the application is very nice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Beforehand, but yes, you need to check it.
Speaker: It won't fill out everything.
Speaker: It only takes the information that's on your resume.
Speaker: So if it asks, so sometimes like there's just random fields or like,
Speaker: When it asks for your pronouns or things like that, it won't fill those in, but it'll take like your name, phone number, email address.
Speaker: It can put it all in there for you.
Speaker: If there's like, why are you excited about this position?
Speaker: You could have AI write it for you right there.
Speaker: Again, I don't necessarily recommend always having AI do that, but it's there to make it for people who are just sick of this, be able to do it much quicker.
Speaker: I mean, I love the application fill out aspect.
Speaker: And from a resume perspective, it seems like you would probably say, and don't put words in your mouth, that it still could be a good tool for a baseline resume.
Speaker: And then, but you very much don't want to rely entirely on that.
Speaker: Like it can get you started and maybe go there.
Speaker: Certainly better than the word, here's your resume doc.
Speaker: We're far away from those templates.
Speaker: If you just put your, like the job description in ChatGPT and say, write me a resume, I'm going to know.
Speaker: Now, I'm not going to know you use ChatGPT specifically.
Speaker: I might, but like specifically not going to tell me that, but like,
Speaker: It's not going to be a good resume.
Speaker: It's going to read very generic.
Speaker: The best resumes are super specific to you.
Speaker: And ChatGPT can't do that for you, but it can help you get there and it can make suggestions for you and give you this sort of baseline to be started from.
Speaker: But it won't just like go learn everything about you in the time you need a resume and write a perfect resume for you either.
Speaker: Anything else AI related?
Speaker: That's, I mean, that's where everyone's using it.
Speaker: Here's another thing people are using AI for that I actually think works really well.
Speaker: Someone pointed this out to me and I played with it.
Speaker: It was actually really cool.
Speaker: If you go to ChatGVT, you can ask it questions like, I'm interviewing for a senior product manager at a SaaS company.
Speaker: Pose as my manager.
Speaker: And what are the five questions you're going to ask me?
Speaker: Now, again, this is not 100% accurate.
Speaker: You don't know what a manager is going to ask you, but like,
Speaker: I have heard the best success on ChatGPT coming really from like interview prep or just learning about it.
Speaker: I used it a lot when I was searching before over like the winter and fall.
Speaker: I interviewed at a lot of companies that aren't really up my alley, things I don't know a ton about and like the crypto world and things like that, because that's where a lot of hiring is happening.
Speaker: And when you're not working, you will certainly look at industries you never really expected to look at.
Speaker: And I would just take questions and like, just ask them, like, explain this to me.
Speaker: And then if they didn't know it, I'd be like, explain this term to me like I'm 10, you know, and you can ask it to do things like that.
Speaker: And I learned enough.
Speaker: And then I would say, like, give me some talking points to someone who's not familiar with this space to talk about these things.
Speaker: And it would give me some talking points.
Speaker: And again, don't read it like a script, but it was just this getting started point where like, instead of me having to read 15 different articles to learn all this information, it was just there for me.
Speaker: No, I love that.
Speaker: I love the idea.
Speaker: Like, even if those questions aren't 100% accurate in terms of what you're going to be asked, it'll get you thinking in that direction.
Speaker: And it'll probably hit on at least a couple of the topics that they're going to bring up to you.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm very interested in AI and what it's going to mean for our industry, writ large, specifically as it focuses in technology as well.
Speaker: I always say, yes, when it comes to AI.
Speaker: You and I even had a conversation earlier today about your AI avatar.
Speaker: And I was like, well, you want to have that on here?
Speaker: You're like, it doesn't move.
Speaker: And I was like, yes.
Speaker: Pretty soon there's going to be, you know, I worry eventually it's just going to be AI hiring managers and AI candidates just interviewing each other.
Speaker: I mean, I feel bad for photographers because like where this is all even coming from is I paid $19 to this website where I sent them 10 photos of me and it gave me 100 headshots.
Speaker: Now, 85 of them were awful.
Speaker: But 15 of them were usable.
Speaker: Five of them I use.
Speaker: One is my LinkedIn profile picture.
Speaker: One is my realistic recruiting profile picture.
Speaker: And no one's ever said that's not you.
Speaker: I knew something was off, to be fair.
Speaker: I was like, there's something different here.
Speaker: It's not perfect, but it works.
Speaker: But it works enough.
Speaker: Especially just as a LinkedIn photo.
Speaker: Here's me in a suit looking a little bit better than my previous photos have been.
Speaker: But yeah, a lot of them are bad, but it's just something that, yeah, are we a year away from getting perfect photos when you do something like that?
Speaker: So I wanted to hit on a couple kind of, I don't know, hot takes or hot topics with you.
Speaker: Just because especially I think you are really good at evaluating things from both like the hiring manager company perspective, as well as the candidate.
Speaker: Salary conversations.
Speaker: What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker: Yeah, so this is another sort of dangerous thing where a lot of unqualified people have a lot of things to say.
Speaker: This is another one of those areas where people talk about how it should be, not how to deal with how it is.
Speaker: So if we're talking about just talking salary, I've said this before and I'll say it over and over again.
Speaker: You are not better off as a candidate by avoiding the salary conversation.
Speaker: That very rarely goes your way.
Speaker: I understand the idea of being scared to sort of lowball yourself or undercut yourself before they give you some information.
Speaker: And you can have a back and forth conversation if you're having a good conversation on that first call.
Speaker: But you cannot be combative.
Speaker: You cannot be refusing to have this conversation because that's what steers things wrong.
Speaker: And when a piece of advice I see a lot of people give, again, from the not in the room where it happens, people, is something along the lines of tell them,
Speaker: I'm sure you have a budget for this role.
Speaker: If you determine I'm the right person in this role, you'll pay me at the upper end of your budget because I'll have proven I'm qualified for the role.
Speaker: And this is a perfect way to later get on the internet and complain that the offer was $20,000 less than you thought it was going to be when you refuse to talk money with them.
Speaker: So I think it has to come up.
Speaker: I think you want to be broad enough.
Speaker: You're right.
Speaker: You don't want to undercut yourself.
Speaker: And companies will always have the advantage when it comes to market data.
Speaker: Because there's only like four or five places that real market data is available and companies have access to it.
Speaker: People don't.
Speaker: Glassdoor and LinkedIn, those numbers aren't real.
Speaker: They're not actual market data.
Speaker: So you never really have the data.
Speaker: But you can say, based on what I know about roles and where things are and where I've been in my career, you know, I'm hoping to be in this range.
Speaker: Is that a range that's within you, where you are?
Speaker: This is going to be a long-winded answer because I go into these things.
Speaker: No, no, please.
Speaker: The other thing that I think people don't understand about salary from the candidate side, because they've never been on the company side, is how much goes into those decisions on the company side.
Speaker: It is not just a budget, which is what a lot of people say, right?
Speaker: You are taking into account internal equity and a little bit just what internal equity is.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Internal equity is essentially what a team should be making, what people on this team are making, what they plan on, like what a level one, two and three make within a company.
Speaker: and how you keep people in the company within those proper salary bands.
Speaker: So it is possible that one company pays better and has higher salary bands, and that's just how it is.
Speaker: It doesn't mean the other company is trying to lowball you.
Speaker: That's where people are.
Speaker: And it's the same that when you work at a company, if you're making $75,000 a year as a level two support admin, you don't want another level two support admin to come in making $90,000 a year, right?
Speaker: There's going to be a general range of what L2 support admins make,
Speaker: And then there's a range of what L3 makes when they get promoted or when someone comes in.
Speaker: So a lot of these conversations happen when companies, you know, companies are starting to post salary ranges.
Speaker: I love the idea of salary transparency, right?
Speaker: It is great.
Speaker: It's becoming a law in a lot of places.
Speaker: But everyone still has to understand that is an anticipated amount based on what the company generally pays the people in those roles, what they would anticipate paying people who come into there.
Speaker: It doesn't mean that's the set salary you're going to get.
Speaker: And I don't think people understand sort of all that planning that goes into it sometimes.
Speaker: And they just say, oh, you're going to give me the biggest number or you only want to give me the lowest number.
Speaker: Well, internal equity became a big problem with our clients over COVID because when everything went remote, and by the way, remote is the other hot topic I want to touch on with you.
Speaker: When everything went remote, it had a significant effect on compensation because candidates now had the ability to look for positions in a national marketplace.
Speaker: And some of the old adages no longer applied where it's like,
Speaker: If you worked in one area of the country, this would be the salary for that area.
Speaker: And if you were in New York City, it was going to be higher.
Speaker: And if you were in some of the California areas or if you were in somewhere rural, it might be less.
Speaker: And so what ended up happening is salaries across board went up and then companies ran into real problems, A, from an internal equity perspective where they could not bring on people for their level two support or whatever it happened to be.
Speaker: for what their people were making.
Speaker: So they had to, A, figure out a way to expand those salary bands, B, start bumping up the equity, the compensation of the people that were in those current roles so they could not be out-competed and taken away for other organizations.
Speaker: you know, again, you know, not to always be a company's advocate, but that's difficult to do.
Speaker: Like, you know, it's costing, you're costing more money for your current employees.
Speaker: It's costing more money for your hiring and you have to be able to figure those things out.
Speaker: What do you like?
Speaker: So what do you say?
Speaker: I like, I like what you said earlier in terms of like,
Speaker: you know, offering a range.
Speaker: I think it's difficult to do, but I think one of the best things you can do salary-wise is really know yourself and where you want to be at and communicate that as effectively and possible.
Speaker: And yes, sometimes that might mean
Speaker: What you're saying you want for the position is at the lower end of their salary band for that.
Speaker: And it maybe could feel like, oh, like maybe I didn't put my best foot forward or go for as much as I could have gotten.
Speaker: But maybe you're putting yourself in an advantageous position, getting the compensation that you want.
Speaker: And sometimes being at that lower end of the salary band gives you the opportunity for compensation growth over time.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, it does.
Speaker: And, you know, I get it.
Speaker: Everyone wants the money.
Speaker: As much money as possible, I guess.
Speaker: I do too, right?
Speaker: I'm not unique to that.
Speaker: But yeah, there's just so many factors going to play.
Speaker: And I don't think people realize too that...
Speaker: companies who do a good job of building internal equity within a company will keep you there too so you're not going to necessarily undercut yourself and i have examples i have proof i don't want to name drop any company or people obviously on this call but you know i know of a hire that i specifically made where this person was in a rural area and their salary requirements were low for what we expected to pay for this job and we pay other people this job
Speaker: And we ended up offering way above the salary expectations they made.
Speaker: And it wasn't because we just like are nice people.
Speaker: We were nice people, but you know, we did it because that's the salary band for this role.
Speaker: That's the, the equity that people at this company have.
Speaker: So yes, I know that a lot of times in defending companies, you come off as just like anti people and pro companies.
Speaker: And I get it.
Speaker: And ultimately the company is the business and they have to profit.
Speaker: And it's just like how it works.
Speaker: So, but, you know, companies are not just out to screw everybody all the time.
Speaker: Are some?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: Do some not live by their values?
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: But you can't just treat all people working at all companies in that way.
Speaker: And that's something that I think is important for people to know.
Speaker: And we all have bad experiences and a lot of people hopefully have good experiences.
Speaker: But yeah, it's just so much goes into it.
Speaker: And the best approach is an honest conversation about.
Speaker: You are likely to get an honest response back from them.
Speaker: You know, you can ask first, you can just say, do you have an anticipated salary ban for this role based on what people in the role are currently making or based on what previous people have made in this role?
Speaker: And good recruiters and good companies will have that conversation with you too, but it can't be combative.
Speaker: And I do think a lot of advice is just sort of about shutting down and like making it us versus them.
Speaker: And it's just like, that's,
Speaker: That's not good in any type of negotiation in any way, whether it's your salary or whatever in the business world.
Speaker: It's just not how you do in negotiation.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: To what you said earlier, when like you were talking about the question, I was like, oh, like they asked you a question like, oh, what is your salary band and expectations for this role?
Speaker: It's like, you know, that almost makes you think like, oh, this is what this person is going to be like for everything, not even just salary.
Speaker: Like when we're having conversations about like, what do you think?
Speaker: Well, what do you think we should do?
Speaker: And it's just like, you know, you had mentioned earlier, I forget which aspect it was about, like,
Speaker: avoiding contention in these conversations, being able to be honest and upfront.
Speaker: But like, you know, if you're intentionally being contentious, it's not going to work out well for either side, if it's the hiring side or the person looking for the position.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And people will respond to this.
Speaker: I know because I've had these conversations and they will say,
Speaker: I'm interviewing them too.
Speaker: And yes, you are.
Speaker: And you don't want them to be contentious back to you either though, right?
Speaker: It's just sort of, it's the same idea.
Speaker: You want them to be honest with you about what they're expecting to pay for this role.
Speaker: So you be honest with them too.
Speaker: And could it screw you over sometimes?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Could it do this?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: The answer is always yes.
Speaker: The answer to could this happen is always yes.
Speaker: But it's a matter of you're going through these processes and the best results are generally going to come from honest and open conversations.
Speaker: On both ends.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: You know, this is not to let companies off the hook who are vague or, oh, our compensation is competitive.
Speaker: Well, what does that mean?
Speaker: Anything else on salary worth talking about?
Speaker: Good advice, bad advice you've heard out there?
Speaker: That's probably it for salary.
Speaker: But even just on that point, I think that this comes up a lot too.
Speaker: And if people hear this, they might have the same thoughts.
Speaker: I want to address it like,
Speaker: People hear these conversations or they'll come into my comments or into my lives on TikTok and have these conversations and they'll say things like, well, what about when companies do this?
Speaker: Or what about hiring managers who do it this way?
Speaker: And the answer is yes, that is wrong too.
Speaker: And I think something else people don't really know is how much work like an internal hiring team does on trying to prevent that on a company side too.
Speaker: You know, the difference when we're talking like here and we're talking about hiring from a candidate's perspective or when I'm on TikTok giving career advice to candidates,
Speaker: I work with hiring managers to I put together training programs I talked about good ways to interview and anti bias training and how to negotiate salary and keep candidates happy and deliver good experience.
Speaker: But those managers aren't on tick tock looking for my videos and i'm having those conversations with them somewhere else i'm here now in this conversation and on tick tock to talk about what we can do on the other end.
Speaker: So I didn't even know that sometimes like these conversations sound one sided like just.
Speaker: Candidates do this, you have to do this, you have to do this.
Speaker: But understand stuff's happening on the back end too.
Speaker: That's just not where you are in this conversation.
Speaker: That's a good point.
Speaker: The name of the podcast is Hiring Great Talent.
Speaker: We've focused a lot of advice on to candidates and people looking for positions.
Speaker: What's some of the advice you wish hiring managers would hear and follow?
Speaker: As somebody who's looking for, as somebody who's looking for a job.
Speaker: Yeah, somebody who's currently on the market.
Speaker: Tell them how they should do it better.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think the best hiring managers, the best recruiters, the best hiring managers, everyone in the process never loses sight of how difficult the job interview and job search process is.
Speaker: That's the best advice I can give, right?
Speaker: I'm not going to dive into how to stay unbiased and things like this, like in like a few minutes on this podcast.
Speaker: But I think creating a good candidate experience is so much more than just the initial recruiter's job or one peer's job.
Speaker: I think that a candidate experience is everything to thoughts about, have we thought about this interview process and what info we're going to give them about it and how much we're going to prepare them for each step and how much time we're going to expect of them and how we're going to sort of respect them during that time.
Speaker: And what are we going to do as an interviewer?
Speaker: You know, are we going to show up in the same sort of manner that we expect them to show up?
Speaker: Are we going to be multitasking and typing on the other screen?
Speaker: And I start every interview sort of warning of that.
Speaker: Like, hey, I want you to know, like, I have a habit of staring at my other monitor.
Speaker: I have your resume here, your portfolio here.
Speaker: I'm taking notes about you.
Speaker: Like when you're talking to me, I'm going to look like I'm doing everything in the world.
Speaker: But I promise I'm listening and I'm taking notes and like marking up your resume as we talk here.
Speaker: And I just let them know that.
Speaker: And I think that
Speaker: managers need, I think a lot of managers need to be reminded, like making a candidate comfortable in an interview can have such a huge factor, not just in them liking you, wanting to work for you, but in how they perform.
Speaker: You know, I think putting a candidate on edge is like every candidate's biggest fear.
Speaker: And a lot of them shut down.
Speaker: They're very nervous about interviewing.
Speaker: I have, this is the time I spend some of the most talking to people is like how to be less nervous in interviews.
Speaker: And part of that is on us as the company to help you be less nervous during an interview.
Speaker: And, and that's an attitude you're starting to see some managers take, but I think it's one that like a lot of people need to like really remember it.
Speaker: And I don't wish unemployment on anybody, but I do think a lot of people could learn a lot by like going through the current job search process, um, for their role and then see how they act as a hiring manager afterwards.
Speaker: Honestly, that's a wonderful idea if the hiring manager had to go through their own interview process.
Speaker: Yeah, and not just their own, but just try to get a job.
Speaker: Apply to these hundreds of opportunities and see how you're being treated through it all.
Speaker: Yeah, I say, and you know, a lot of what you're referencing, I generally refer to as like the candidate experience.
Speaker: And, you know, my message to hiring managers out there as someone who, you know, we all could be looking for a job in the future is you always want every candidate to have a good candidate experience, even if they are not the person that you hire for the position.
Speaker: for any number of reasons.
Speaker: They could talk to the candidate that you would want to hire for the position, but because they had an experience, they're not going to come to your company.
Speaker: It's just like the experience you give candidates speaks a lot more about your company and the market writ large.
Speaker: It's not always about like, well, if I'm not going to hire them, what do I care what their experience is?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: So providing a good experience, to your point, can actually help you identify the right candidate.
Speaker: But even if it isn't the right candidate, there's going to be so many benefits for your company and being able to get the right candidates in going forward.
Speaker: And we spend a lot of time with that on our clients, and we try to be a part of that candidate experience.
Speaker: Last thing I'll hit on you with, because I know you have strong opinions about this, is remote work.
Speaker: There's a lot of advice out there.
Speaker: There's a lot of different things going on there.
Speaker: Remote work.
Speaker: What are your thoughts on remote work in general?
Speaker: What advice do you have for candidates, for companies?
Speaker: What do you want to say on that?
Speaker: I think we've hit a good spot where there are options now for everybody.
Speaker: Some people don't want to be remote.
Speaker: And
Speaker: There are plenty of opportunities now to not be remote.
Speaker: Some people want to be hybrid and they exist.
Speaker: Some people want to be remote only and that exists.
Speaker: So we have the option now to make that choice.
Speaker: And so do companies.
Speaker: And everyone making that choice understands the limits they're putting on themselves by doing that.
Speaker: If you're choosing to be a remote only candidate, you understand the limits.
Speaker: You know, if you're choosing to be an in-office only company, that's your choice.
Speaker: But you also understand the limits of where candidates are going to come from.
Speaker: So I think that's key.
Speaker: I think if you're going to choose to be a remote company,
Speaker: You have to commit to it.
Speaker: One of the biggest mistakes companies make is like being sort of remote.
Speaker: You know, like some people are remote and some aren't or we're remote, but we haven't really figured it out.
Speaker: I've worked for a few fully remote companies and some like not fully remote companies at this point.
Speaker: And you can sense the difference.
Speaker: You don't want a situation where you have like a meeting going on and there's like two people up on a screen and other people in the room.
Speaker: And the meeting is discombobulated and other people are like six minutes behind.
Speaker: That's hard.
Speaker: You need to figure out if you're going to be hybrid, having the day that people are there and that everyone's there doing the work they need to be there for.
Speaker: Not just randomly one person's here one day, but then they're still on Zoom because everyone else is on Zoom.
Speaker: You have to commit to the decision you're making and make it work for the company and figure out how.
Speaker: And I think that's a mistake a lot of people make is they just want to be seen as flexible in that way.
Speaker: But it just sort of gives employees a bad experience because of that.
Speaker: For candidates themselves, I think you just have to decide and that's going to be it.
Speaker: I think if you're struggling to find a job, you know what you may have to do if you're looking remote only to find a bit, you know, to have more options.
Speaker: And if you don't want to, if you only want to work remote, that's fine.
Speaker: You just have to understand the competition.
Speaker: That video I posted that we referenced, which showed all the applications that came in, you know, a lot of comments like, well, that's because you're remote only.
Speaker: And it's like, I know.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: More people are going to apply because we're remote only.
Speaker: The competition is tougher.
Speaker: More people are just available for the position, as we kind of discussed earlier.
Speaker: There's, you know, if you don't put a geographical limitation, then you just have hundreds of thousands of more candidates potentially available for your position.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And candidates need to know that too.
Speaker: They need to understand that there is more competition to get that job.
Speaker: Anything else remote-wise that are...
Speaker: I think you kind of hit, you know, it's similar to the salary conversation is it's just about clear, upfront, honest communication on both ends, right?
Speaker: If you're a 100% remote company, then, you know, it's not, well, we're 100% remote, but on every other Tuesday, you know, if you need to be 100% remote as a candidate, you need to be 100% remote as a candidate, but just understand the
Speaker: you know, the good and the bad associated with those things.
Speaker: And as long as both parties are clearly and honestly communicating, I think maybe that's the theme of this conversation.
Speaker: You know, the results are going to be better.
Speaker: Where can people reach you?
Speaker: I know you're, you know, out there on TikTok offering some advice.
Speaker: I believe you got a newsletter going.
Speaker: What are some of the things that people should, you know, how can people find you?
Speaker: Yeah, so TikTok is the best place to find me.
Speaker: That is where I spend most of my time.
Speaker: That's realistic recruiting.
Speaker: My Instagram is the same realistic recruiting, but I don't use it very much.
Speaker: It's basically just some videos I've downloaded from TikTok and put up every now and then that nobody watches over there.
Speaker: You can find me on LinkedIn, LinkedIn slash in slash M. Pedito.
Speaker: I make my LinkedIn profile, which a lot of job creators on TikTok and the internet do not do for various reasons.
Speaker: But I want people to know I'm real and be able to verify the things that I'm saying in my work history.
Speaker: So you can find me on there.
Speaker: I have a website sort of, it's a weird address, but if you go to stan.store slash realistic recruiting.
Speaker: I'll get it put up on the screen when we post it.
Speaker: Okay, perfect.
Speaker: So stan.store slash realistic recruiting.
Speaker: You'll find links to everywhere for me there.
Speaker: You can also sign up for my newsletter, which I'm just starting to roll out right now, once or twice a week, just really expanding on stuff I can really talk about in videos.
Speaker: There are options on there for people to do some coaching sessions as well, which is something I've recently gotten into since being on the job market and having some people ask for it.
Speaker: But ultimately, free advice is what I'm here to do.
Speaker: And those are all options to get it.
Speaker: Perfect.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Well, I appreciate your time.
Speaker: Thank you so much for chatting with me for what I said was 30 minutes, but it was now almost an hour here.
Speaker: I thought you booked an hour.
Speaker: I booked every invite I said is always an hour, but I told you 30 minutes.
Speaker: I could have told you this wasn't going to take 30 minutes.
Speaker: We could probably do this once a month, if not once a week.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: People ask me all the time with my TikToks, like, how do you keep having like stuff to say?
Speaker: I'm like, I don't know.
Speaker: Do you know me?
Speaker: Like, have you ever heard me get going on hiring?
Speaker: Like, I always have more to say.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, we could go deeper on a lot of these topics.
Speaker: There's a bunch of stuff we didn't even head on, but I appreciate it.
Speaker: I appreciate your time, and I know we'll talk again soon.
Speaker: All right, I appreciate it.
Speaker: Hang out on the line.
Speaker: Don't hang up.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We'll get another countdown.
