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Season Six: Holiday Episode 7 (2025)
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Transcript
Introduction and Content Warning
00:00:00
Speaker
The content you're about to hear may be graphic in nature. Listener discretion is advised.
00:00:50
Speaker
This is True Crime XS.
00:01:01
Speaker
I think we have some lighter episodes for the holidays coming up, but this is, unfortunately, this is not one of them. um I will say this is one of the sadder stories from sort of this selection of holiday episodes.
00:01:16
Speaker
Also, it's one of the weirder stories. Certainly not as, it's not the weirdest. But along the way, there's all these little details that we're privy to that, like, I was shocked that all this information was rounded up.
00:01:33
Speaker
Just to like start off, the AP and the Chicago Tribune wore this story out, but it's been many years ago. It has a lot of nuances to it that makes it wear out worthy.
00:01:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And I believe there's a movie about this that may or may not be based on a book. I used Newsweek, Chicago Tribune. um i did a bunch of ProQuest searches related to part of this.
00:02:01
Speaker
i did the Illinois issue. And the Atlanta Journal-Constitution one point ran like a like a multi-part series on this. I think that's what it looks like. It's a long time ago, so I see it all as one piece now, but it looks like it was broken up into parts the way it's written.
Lori Wasserman's Early Life
00:02:18
Speaker
This is going to be a story from the 80s, but our story really begins back in 1957.
00:02:25
Speaker
And it starts with a girl named Lori Wasserman. She grows up in an area called Glencoe. And Glencoe is a suburb of Chicago. It's up on the north side.
00:02:39
Speaker
It's in Illinois. For those of you don't know where Chicago is, it's Christmas. I'm a little punchy. o She was the daughter of a woman named Edith Joy, and her dad, Lori Wasserman's dad, was an accountant named Norman Wasserman.
00:02:55
Speaker
And, you know, she she has a sibling. She has an older brother in all of this. But I want to point out, for some reason, every single article that I read talks about the the family being Jewish. There are some aspects that play to that, but I think that's more of an 80s and 90s thing. I don't know that we do that as much anymore. i think it's irrelevant, and it is weird that they even say that.
00:03:15
Speaker
Yeah. Lori has, like, a normal... like base childhood up through like the preschool years. It is said that like once she gets into like that pre-K, kindergarten, first grade, um it started to be commented on that she's shy and that she may have some issues socializing with peers her age. From what I can tell and what is said about her after the fact, it appears that people suspected she might have obsessive compulsive disorder.
00:03:47
Speaker
as she was going into sort of her adolescent and then like her puberty year. In high school, she had a couple of boyfriends. They didn't last like a super long amount of time. Remember, she was born in 1957. While they're vacationing, so the whole family is vacationing, over in Hawaii,
00:04:07
Speaker
from the 1973 into 1974 holiday season. So if she would have been, it would have been the year just before she turned 17, I believe.
00:04:18
Speaker
She meets a boy named Barry Gallop. He's a year older than her. was born in 1956. And he's also from the Chicago area. So after the holidays are over and the everybody goes home she like is talking to Barry kind of like, I don't know how familiar people are with Chicago. It's a little bit of a distance when you're in high school to get like all the way across the city and to do all the things in the 70s. But they're they're trying to do that.
00:04:48
Speaker
Now, when they're home, the spring goes okay, but Barry graduates and he goes off to college and he does that thing where he doesn't want to have attachments as he's going into college because he doesn't know what the future might hold. And I think that has an effect on Laurie Wasserman.
00:05:06
Speaker
In 1974, the family moves out of the neighborhood they've been living in in Glencoe and into another neighborhood. um Because of this move, Lori, who was a sophomore, junior, school year ends, they move. She's going to be in a completely different high school for her senior year. And I think that would be a little bit of a shock to the system for people.
00:05:29
Speaker
I thought that that was weird because it seems like you just finish and then move or move but make arrangements, right? Yeah, I even wondered if maybe the parents had the idea that this will be a fresh start for her. Possibly, yeah, and that could be for a variety of reasons, right? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think I would find it difficult to do that to a kid, but like I could definitely see several different circumstances that would arise where a new school might be appropriate.
00:05:55
Speaker
So it could have had something to do with her. The timing was right. and they were like, you know what? This is your chance at a fresh start. Right. I guess I just, I don't know. It seems almost like ah senior year,
00:06:07
Speaker
If you just go with the flow, it might have been better, but who knows? You could be totally right. She could have wanted it, even. The summer before her senior year, the family again goes on like a vacation. They're down in Aspen, Colorado.
00:06:21
Speaker
And she meets another boy that's about her age named Wade Keats. He is also from Chicago. And they saw each other some that summer, but they break up after a couple of months.
00:06:36
Speaker
And by all accounts, Lori is like seeing some people off and on throughout her senior year. They make it sound like kind of going together where you go on a couple of dates and you get to know each other. And then, you know, you kind of move on to someone else because it wasn't something that sort of anchored you.
00:06:53
Speaker
ah She does end up senior year getting plastic surgery, which is one of those things that always makes me wonder um This comes up in a couple of different sources, ah including Day of Fury, which is a ah book that references all of this.
00:07:13
Speaker
and The idea was they wanted to reduce the size of her nose. Yeah, I was just going to throw that in there. There's a lot of things that come up when you think of a teenager or a high school student getting plastic surgery. I haven't really read really deep into that. It wasn't for medical reasons, right? Yeah.
00:07:31
Speaker
I think it was appearances. it does not I didn't find anything referencing some kind of deviated septum or some kind of like issue. It seems like it is cosmetic. And so to me, the age I am now, now obviously she's older than I am, and or she would be in reality. But to me, I feel like there's a lot of underlying issues. Anytime ah a child is undergoing plastic surgery for appearance reasons, don't you think?
00:08:00
Speaker
Yeah, I mean... i i'm just thinking as it builds
College Struggles and Marriage
00:08:06
Speaker
into the story. I think it, yeah, it definitely does. It depends on the type of plastic surgery. And I think this falls in, like, having some kind of rhinoplasty in your teen years that's non-medical, more cosmetic, I think is...
00:08:24
Speaker
Probably a sign of like issues with self-esteem, which come from so many different things that could be going wrong. And it's also like there's a potential that this person is a little too wrapped up in vanity. You've got this young person because even 17, 18 is still a very young person. Absolutely. it was it was being affected in such a way that like they really wanted this surgery.
00:08:45
Speaker
Right. And so as a parent, I feel like. I'm not sure. i don't know how helpful it is for parents to ah support that. or like i I feel like it's always better to say, you know you're going to have your nose your entire life, and in just a couple years, you'll be an adult. Yeah.
00:09:07
Speaker
That kind of thing. It might be the wrong approach. Again, this is in the 70s, right? Yeah. And so we kind of have to transport o ourselves back in time. And keep in mind, there was no social media at all.
00:09:19
Speaker
in the seventies. Right. Yeah. Uh, the long distance relationships that, you know, she initially was broken off, which is kind of the momentum.
00:09:30
Speaker
It, she, that started getting momentum. Cause I don't know that it was her, what she wanted to happen. Right. Yeah. And so it really truly would have been a long distance relationship because you didn't have where, you I don't know if you remember, but we used to have to pay long distance fees. Oh yeah. Even in our lifetime to talk to people that,
00:09:50
Speaker
we met that were out of our area code. Like a camp or somewhere. like Yeah, and and it would get expensive. And so it really was like ah a snail mail type thing that a lot of people just didn't. want to do. I mean, nowadays it's a completely different situation because you can be far away from somebody, but constantly in contact with them for no more than it costs anybody for anything, right? Just on your cell phone. Yeah. it It is amazing how times have changed. And I mean, technically if you're communicating over the internet, you're literally not even paying cell phone bill.
00:10:27
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. 1975, Laurie Wasserman is going to graduate from new Trier High School, which is that high school she was going to just for her senior year in Winnetka.
00:10:37
Speaker
She did not have great grades, like in some of the key subjects that she needed to have good grades in, but she still gets into Drake University, which is out in Des Moines, Iowa.
00:10:48
Speaker
Over time, her academics get a little better. And once that happens, she starts looking around for a school with a teaching program. And she settles on the University of Arizona down in Tucson, Arizona.
00:11:03
Speaker
she's described as not taking, like, actually getting the certificate and doing the work seriously. And one of her acquaintances, sort of after the fact, like very much a hindsight conversation to our story that we're telling today, said that she was always on the hunt for a husband.
00:11:23
Speaker
Right. um This could have been like something she had gotten used to growing up, but it does seem to like play into things here.
00:11:33
Speaker
At one point, she had dated a pre-med student named Steve Witt, and Steve Witt was like the opposite of Lori. He believed that like the be-all, end-all thing for him to be doing at his age would be through moving his education forward because he wanted to be a doctor.
00:11:54
Speaker
And he did not think a whole lot of like what should happen in a relationship at, you know, 22, 23 years old. Eventually he gets accepted into a residency an Arizona hospital and felt like things had been pretty casual between the two of them.
00:12:16
Speaker
And he let Laurie Wasserman know at the time that he was not interested anymore in continuing the relationship they had had. He's got other things to do.
00:12:28
Speaker
By now, we've kind of moved to the summer of 1977, and Laurie comes up to Wisconsin. She takes a few courses in Madison, Wisconsin, at the University of Wisconsin,
00:12:39
Speaker
I will say Madison is a very big city compared to some of these other places. It's ah probably the second or third most populous city in Wisconsin.
00:12:50
Speaker
She doesn't do a lot in terms of courses here. And after like her relationship is not going great, she ends up moving back into her parents' home, which is you know putting her back in the suburbs of Chicago.
00:13:07
Speaker
So she transfers everything that she can transfer in terms of college credits into Northwestern University. And her goal at that point by 1970 is to is I'm a fifth year college student moving into being a six year college student. I'm just trying to get a degree in something, but she ends up dropping out of all her courses as pretty much as soon as she gets in it's kind of focused on like moving towards being a person getting a degree.
00:13:44
Speaker
She begins working as a cocktail waitress at a country club is I will say this like plays into the story a little bit, is exclusively for Jewish people.
00:13:57
Speaker
And at this point in time, she's 23 turning 24, she meets a 25-year-old insurance salesman who is working for his mom and dad's insurance firm, firm and he's likely going to inherit their agency.
00:14:13
Speaker
So he's a person that in her mind seems to be probably a lot like her dad, like having a steady professional career that's on the white collar side and seems to have an upward trajectory.
00:14:30
Speaker
The problem is she starts out her relationship with him by making herself out to be sort of a caricature of herself. She exaggerates and flat out lies about a lot of things.
00:14:44
Speaker
In fact, she tells this guy, Russell is his name, Russell Dan, that she's a graduate student at Northwest University, even though she's already dropped out and she does not have her undergraduate stuff completed, and that she's working towards a career in hospital administration.
00:15:02
Speaker
For some weird reason, she claims to have previously worked for dan Brothers Insurance, which is the insurance company that is in the Dan family.
00:15:17
Speaker
And she tells him that she possessed an accounting degree from the University of Arizona. So, okay. I'm going pause this for a second. We've seen this in a number of cases over the years where somebody is like making shit up and then spends the rest of the relationship kind of struggling to figure all of that out.
00:15:35
Speaker
That is a lot of bullshit she was laid on this guy in a very short amount of time. Great. And what do you expect to happen when you do that? Like if I'm her. yeah Like, I mean, it's going to implode, right? It's going to have to implode. Like there's no way, like at some point in time, the potential for any one of these things where you graduated from, where you're in a school at, like the degree that you said you got that you didn't get, the places that you said you worked that you didn't work. Like someone is going to eventually, even if it's an accident,
00:16:09
Speaker
uncover at least one of these things and it's going to cause a rift in the relationship. And like you said, that's going to make things implode. Right. And unless, cause I mean, let's face it. She's I think 23 ish around this time. 23, 24. Yeah. Okay. And so if she obviously is interested in longer term relationships, right? I mean, that's what she's, you know, going after a guy that reminds her of her dad. She wants, you know,
00:16:38
Speaker
stability or whatever she's looking for. And that's just, I mean, if you're out playing the field, i guess it wouldn't matter who you were, right? But that's not really what she's doing here.
00:16:49
Speaker
And lying about a college degree it's something you will never overcome in a long-term relationship. 100%. And not to mention, I mean, i don't know that it, i think the honesty matters more than the fact that I think it matters more for her to just be up front than to say she's got a degree in any sort of meaningful relationship, don't you think?
00:17:16
Speaker
Yeah, i don't I think she's having self-esteem problems here. and she's trying to land a husband because like that is her version of the life preserver she needs.
00:17:27
Speaker
Right. And you know we know now as middle-aged adults, which she was not at the time, um we know that the degree is not going to make a difference.
00:17:38
Speaker
ah to your partner, right? they'll Either they're going to be your partner or not. The degree is not going to matter. The lie will matter. And that's why I say it's going to implode. But it's an interesting mix, isn't it, of things that we've learned so far. yeah We've got a nurse job and in high school.
00:17:56
Speaker
yeah Then we've got a pretend college degree. yeah Not only is it a pretend college degree, she's also in graduate school, right? Yeah. In the story, yeah. In the story, right, exactly. And I don't know how much the truth would have mattered, but to me, a person who has a degree and is in graduate school is a much different person than a person who didn't finish their degree to begin with. Right.
00:18:22
Speaker
So she's having to put on this facade, right? If he's if he's buying it. Yeah, and I think you have, ah like, I think I figured this up at one point, and she's 24 when that story begins. And i think they get married right before she turns 25. So I think she has this period of time, in my opinion, she could have walked back all of this.
00:18:47
Speaker
And it might have changed the relationship a little bit, but I don't think it would have changed the relationship. as much as it might if the husband finds out after they're married. Maybe. i mean, i think that it could be some, especially if she could explain, there's some serious underlying psychological issues that are causing these, I think. Right. So that's about to get so much worse. I know. And, but I, I wonder though, ah you know, there could be, you were saying like she could have walked it back, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, a lot of red flags could have been dealt with sort of on the front end of this. It's always worse on the back end.
00:19:22
Speaker
oh yeah. So, As I mentioned, they date for nine months or so, and they end up getting married at Green Acres Country Club. So Green Acres Country Club, Lori starts off as a cocktail waitress.
00:19:37
Speaker
She meets Russell Dan. And by September 11, 1982, they get married and they go on the honeymoon to the British Virgin Islands. Now...
00:19:48
Speaker
They get back from the honeymoon and they kick off their relationship. And Russell Dan's family starts to notice some problems. One of the first things
Mental Health Decline and Divorce
00:20:00
Speaker
they note is that Lori, now Lori Dan, instead Lori Wasserman, she has pretty severe OCD.
00:20:09
Speaker
And it becomes obvious. And when they try to talk to her about it or try to... kind of counter what she's doing, her behavior gets really strange and it sort of cycles to the extremes.
00:20:24
Speaker
So she'd be very clean and and and everything, but then suddenly she'd switch into leaving trash and clutter everywhere in the house. She gets fired from multiple jobs in a very short period of time, and she would tell Russell that she was quitting or that she was laid off or that she was fired for something someone else did.
00:20:48
Speaker
so she was just deflecting blame, right? Yeah, it's never her fault. And... They began to sort of describe her behind the scenes as being very juvenile, very childish.
00:21:01
Speaker
And it got to the point that they were calling her to rustle antisocial. ah Once, when they were all at a family gathering together, according to this book called Murder of Innocence, she arrived and served a dish of rotting potatoes.
00:21:21
Speaker
Okay, and so that's a pivotal moment in our story. It's a weird moment in our story. Well. What is wrong with someone doing that? She either didn't realize they were rotting.
00:21:34
Speaker
where she's acting out. Or she's being childish, right? It could be vindictive. It's gross, right? It's also something that like, it's over the top for acting out even because that's gross. I can't even imagine. like i I want to serve like the absolute best to anybody that I'm same here yeah serving something to. Even if that means I have to go and like buy it and serve it, right? As opposed to making it.
00:22:06
Speaker
I never in my wildest dreams would I give anybody anything rotting. Yeah, I wouldn't either. And I don't understand the mindset. I don't know. I don't understand which side of it it's on. I kind of have an opinion on that from the events that we see happen afterwards, but I don't have one like in the moment.
00:22:21
Speaker
I don't know if it's out of ignorance or out of like a petulance bordering on like, like that can be dangerous, like serving people things that are,
00:22:35
Speaker
It absolutely could be dangerous. For a number of reasons, can be like it can be harmful to them. Yeah, like so just putting up a thing of poison, right? Right.
00:22:45
Speaker
and And people are obviously going to notice that, and nothing good is going to come from it, ever. like it's just i it's a It's another one of those weird things that's going to stay with her, right? Yeah.
00:23:04
Speaker
The best case scenario is she didn't realize it, right? i mean, I don't know if that's it or not. But then you got to wonder, I mean, they're still young, right? I guess sort of still newly married.
00:23:17
Speaker
And I don't know how long they've been married at that point. But, like, there was already issues. But then, you know, his family, seeing her serve, you know, rotting potato dish at the family, um you're thinking...
00:23:32
Speaker
This woman, you know, potentially would be the mother of the niece or nephew or grandchildren, right? Correct. And so you're going, oh, what's going on? It's a lot to me. To me, that that was a... stra I don't think I've ever actually seen that brought up specifically. Mistakes happen, but rotting potatoes doesn't seem like a a mistake. No, no. The spectrum between good potatoes to eat and rotting potatoes is is quite, ah you can tell. Yeah. ah So according to the the books that are available on this, that we've mentioned, and some of the Chicago Tribune's coverage later, much, much later, actually, um this is a time period that's like two years into the marriage, and
00:24:22
Speaker
It results in Laurie Dan going to therapy for a little while. Depending on which version you read, it's less than six months. It's more than two months, but I don't know exactly how long she went the first go-round. She basically convinced the psychiatrist that she was seeing that...
00:24:43
Speaker
It was all her childhood and all of her parents' fault that were causing problems for her. So when she quits therapy, because like i i think reading between the lines here, she was lying to the therapist about some of the things, doing that thing that you described as deflecting.
00:25:01
Speaker
Right. But I also think a lot of... what she could have been telling him. I don't know that she was lying. i think she could have had an incorrect perspective. She could have had a perfectly normal childhood. And to her, it she really did have these upbringing problems, right? Right.
00:25:20
Speaker
And that's a perspective thing. And it's also a youth thing, right? In a place in life, she's ah she's already juggling things. i I find it would be... It would it would take somebody who was...
00:25:33
Speaker
a little bit mentally unstable to a whole new playing field to have to keep up with lies. Yeah. and deal with judgment, right? As far as the in-law family goes. It sounds like that's where it's coming from. But I feel like that could have just pushed her right past the brink of what she... It doesn't seem like she can handle very much to begin with. No, it it doesn't.
00:26:00
Speaker
And I think Russell starts to catch on about three years into the marriage. He gets her to go back to therapy. By the time they are coming up on what will be their third wedding anniversary, Russell is so bewildered by what is happening in his house and the rift that it is causing with his family and the loneliness it is causing him that he goes with her to one of her therapy sessions, ah sort of at the request of the therapist after Russell had mentioned some things,
00:26:36
Speaker
And what they ultimately suss out during this session is that Lori hasn't been taking therapy seriously. And not only has she not been taking therapy seriously, she really hasn't told the therapist truthfully anything that's been going on.
00:26:54
Speaker
So at this point in time in the relationship, Lori, The Dan family wants her out. They do not want anything to do with her, and they want to protect Russell. But Russell continues to resist, and he seems to be in the boat that like a lot of people fall into this trap.
00:27:13
Speaker
Sometimes you end up where they have a kid, which I would call like a bubblegum or a Band-Aid kid, in this situation. I think that will give her something to do.
00:27:24
Speaker
Right, but that didn't happen here, right? No. Okay, yeah. No, but we're kind of getting to that point in a relationship and you're three years in and your family is saying, dude, get away from this person. Right, and that's really hard, right? um Because you love your family and you know that your family is, well, I would say for the most part, they're looking out for you. I do think, I'm not saying that it's impossible that a family couldn't be being petulant themselves, right?
00:27:51
Speaker
As far as like, oh, we just don't like her for you. But, I mean, she's not a good partner for anybody in the state she's in. no not at all. And he's trying to take, you know, his marriage seriously. But it had to have been very ah disappointing to find out, you know, she was, you know, she was doing what you asked. I guess he asked her to go get help.
00:28:14
Speaker
And she's doing it, but not really. Right. yeah And that's insulting. Right. Yeah. It's like the therapy version of like, like someone that you ask to help you sweep the floors and they like literally lift the rug and sweep everything under there and then put the rug back down.
00:28:29
Speaker
Right. Exactly. but It's the therapy version of that. Exactly. And shortly though, it starts to become really apparent that she may not be completely in control of her mental facilities. Right. Yeah.
00:28:43
Speaker
yeah her Yeah, we're getting there right now. So Russell has given loie some gifts. It appears to, based on Day of Fury, it appears to be anniversary-based gifts.
00:28:54
Speaker
as She ends up with this sp bouquet of flowers and a pink sweatsuit. She refuses to take off this pink sweatsuit because she believes that Russell is going to leave her if she takes it off.
00:29:09
Speaker
And she carries these flowers around with her long after they are dead. So in October 1985, Russell Dan lets everybody know in his family and her family, it is time for this relationship to be over.
00:29:25
Speaker
Right. And that is an indication of a very serious mental problems. Yeah. I think, I mean, I'm not a psychiatrist, but I would say that um she is lacking In very basic sort of self-confidence.
00:29:43
Speaker
Something. Really in her head as far as, you know, ah because you if you think about it, you're in any partnership, you would need to be able to tell your partner, I don't even like this sweatsuit.
00:29:55
Speaker
Right. Yep. And here she is. She can't even take it off because she thinks he's going to leave her, which, I mean, he was going to leave her, but it had nothing to do with the sweatsuit. Correct. So Lori moves back in with her folks again, and things get worse.
00:30:11
Speaker
The divorce negotiations are terrible. Lori claims that Russell been abusive, and she starts down this path of,
00:30:23
Speaker
kind of, just I would call it toxicity that we see. a lot of times we see this from men in domestic violence partnerships, like towards the end of things, but she's doing all of the things that are very...
00:30:38
Speaker
kind of oriented towards someone who has some kind of fear of abandonment. And that's, if I can't have you, nobody can have you. right And that's bullying, right? It's a lot of bullying. It's a lot of projecting. There's a lot of very strange psychological issues coming out in the way that she starts communicating with Russell when she's no longer in the home with him.
00:31:02
Speaker
Right. and And you can tell, you know, obviously in a healthy relationship, if you don't want to be with somebody, you don't want to be with somebody that doesn't want to be with you. Right. And not if I can't have you, no one will. That's just the beginning of the end every single time. and But it fits her decline, right? Right.
00:31:21
Speaker
And we get, so we get like through the holiday season of 1985 into 1986 and things get weird. Right. ah ni eighty six and things get weird Police are being called to investigate various incidents.
00:31:35
Speaker
At one point, there are multiple harassing phone calls made to Russell and his family that appear to have come from Lori.
00:31:46
Speaker
in April of 1986, Lori accuses Russell of breaking into her parents' home. This is where she's staying during their divorce. And May 5th of 1986, Lori goes out and buys a very large ah Smith & Wesson Model 19.357 Magnum revolver handgun.
00:32:09
Speaker
And her comment to the salesman that that ultimately sells it to her is that she needs it for self-defense. So she fills out all the paperwork and she gets her gun um three days later.
00:32:23
Speaker
She doesn't have a criminal record. So this is a legal firearm. But the police had been involved with both sides of this family at this point, both with the Wassermans and with the Dans. And they're concerned.
00:32:34
Speaker
And they go to the Wassermans and they're like, we think that that gun should be turned into us. But Lori's family and Lori keep the gun. And what do you think about that?
00:32:47
Speaker
Because to me, it's horrifying. ah It is horrifying. um i don't know how you handle that. I just thought it was an interesting element of all of this. Well, in my opinion, in reality...
00:33:04
Speaker
If I were her parents, one of her parents, I would, you can have the gun in the safe that I have the key to, right? That's how I would be. I mean, she, I realize she's adult age, but she is relying on them.
00:33:18
Speaker
And I feel like that could have, sometimes when you're in delicate situations, you can't just throw your hands up in the air and say, well, she's an adult. She can have the gun if she wants it. The police are telling you, i go back to the rotting potatoes, right? Yeah. I mean, that's the judgment we're looking at here, right? Or the sweatsuit.
00:33:35
Speaker
Or the sweatsuit or the flowers or any of it. She's not a stable person. And i am actually very second amendment. I'm pro second amendment, right? In this case though, I don't know necessarily, obviously the police couldn't take it away from her, right? But she had loved ones right there, her her family. yeahp Right there that could have said, you know, we support your right to have this gun and we're going to keep it safe for you.
00:34:02
Speaker
Yeah. Like I, we're we're at that point. We have these bizarre police involvements and I've always said this and I just want to point it out one more time. Once the police are involved in your intimate relationship more than once or twice, like, ah like in a very basic way, like if something happens and the police get called out, fine.
00:34:23
Speaker
If you have a little bit of continued contact because of that, fine. But even then, even though it may be fine, the power dynamic in the relationship has shifted permanently.
00:34:34
Speaker
It has. And I actually say, no, it's not fine. well don't Don't be in relationships that the police have to be involved in. It's it's never going to work out. I agree with you there. I just like i i would i would say there's this infinitesimal chance that like sometimes things are not exactly what they seem, and I don't want to leave that out. But you're right. 99.99999% of the time,
00:34:58
Speaker
It's the power dynamic means no more relationship. Right. And I just want to point out, if you're in a situation that involves domestic violence, like you need to get out of that situation and we should involve the police, right? yes It's just that in a healthy relationship, things get resolved long before police ever even dream of needing to be involved. And for the most part,
00:35:23
Speaker
it it's only very severe cases that need ah law enforcement to be involved. yeah And most of the time, those cases aren't the ones that they're having to deal with anyway.
00:35:35
Speaker
And there's a whole power dynamic that happens in a bad personal relationship that prevents the police from being involved because of usually the person who's being involved is receiving the domestic violence, right? yeah They just won't call the police. And unfortunately, i don't know how much it was happening in like 1985 86.
00:36:01
Speaker
But I know that with the sort of escalation, I think of around 86 is where they started having like domestic violence protection orders and things like that.
00:36:13
Speaker
That sounds right, yeah. It seems right. and And it was all used as a power dynamic in a lot of cases, right? Yeah. It was like literally somebody putting somebody on their puppet. They were using it to be like, I'm going to hold this over your head. And that is not what domestic violence is.
00:36:31
Speaker
To clarify, the reason we say that is because we, and I think this is where you're coming from, Lori would have been the one to go and apply for the restraining order. Right, and she's the one causing the problems. And she would have literally... so in in some places, I don't know about everywhere, but once you get a domestic violence protection order in place, and I'm not saying that's what happened here, I'm just sort of explaining my perspective here. You can have a order of protection, and then if your partner or ex-partner violates the order of protection, it is a ticket to jail.
00:37:08
Speaker
And... A lot of times it's very rare, okay that a genuine domestic violence issue gets resolved this way because it's literally a piece of paper. What happens is you get one party or the other with the, i if I can't have you, no one will have you, or the I'm going to make your life a living hell attitude. And they just start having you arrested, right? And...
00:37:34
Speaker
For the most part, I don't know about it at this point in place in time, but a lot of times if there's a DVPO in order, that's put in into place by a judge. Correct. And when the person who has the order against someone go to the police or law enforcement and they say, the person that have this DVPO against has violated it, they have no choice but to arrest that person. Yeah, it's a shall arrest, not a may arrest.
00:38:03
Speaker
Exactly. And it is disastrous. It absolutely is. and And just recently, I've seen, probably not just recently, within probably like the past 10-ish years, I've seen where they've had to go back on all this like legislation in a lot of states that was put into place because it was being abused so badly. Right.
00:38:28
Speaker
Yeah, it is it's kind of fascinating to look at the nuances. And they haven't been super well publicized because in a lot of states, they were trying to keep the bulk of the protections in place but prevent the abuse.
00:38:42
Speaker
And doing that is incredibly difficult, um primarily because, this sounds terrible, lawyers are frequently the ones leading the abuse in a way because they figure out the loopholes and the loopholes start to be used and passed on. And the way that they're passed on, it's frequently passed on through like ah NGOs or like ah Sometimes even government agencies where they're meant to be a crisis line or a place that you go to seek shelter when you have an abusive partner and they have all the resources. But as soon as they latch on to the loopholes, the loopholes get used over and over again.
00:39:22
Speaker
Right, and it doesn't solve anything, and it's really just making the the person who's on the receiving end of it, their life a living hell, and it's giving a power dynamic to the person who has sought the help that they don't actually need. Correct, yeah. And so it's alarming here, um but it's telling to me, right? Yeah, this all sort of unfolds summer of 1986, by the way, but we figure out pretty quickly why. do you know why?
00:39:53
Speaker
um i know i like Money. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. well we' Well, to start with, we knew she was the cocktail waitress at of the country club, right? Right. And then I don't know if this is a correct assessment, but I know that a lot of times when you have family wealth, I guess, yeah would be the way to say it, that that seems to...
00:40:18
Speaker
ah kind of weigh in to relationships, sort of like we were seeing with the family saying, like, you know, she's a little bit off or whatever. A lot of times you'll see that because at the beginning of the narrative that we're telling here, he was in place to take over like a large insurance, or I don't know if it was large, a successful insurance company. Correct. Yeah. And you, a lot of times family members will have their head on a swivel and so to speak, when you're talking about, you know, the possibility that somebody could be in a relationship for the wrong reason, i.e. money. Right. yeah And we see exactly where her mind is. Right. Yeah.
00:40:53
Speaker
So I'm going to skim through a bunch of stuff here, but it's because this is a hostage taking theme. I'm just going to give you guys
Post-Divorce Instability
00:41:00
Speaker
the rundown on some of this. Now on Laurie Wasserman's end,
00:41:06
Speaker
Her father, Norm, is demanding money from Russell Dan. He wants $100,000 lump sum for his daughter and $20,000 monthly alimony payments for 10 years.
00:41:21
Speaker
That's so crazy. It's so much money. I'm so sorry. I paused there. I i said I was going to do a list, with like that number. That number is so big. and That's a lot. It's $2.4 million dollars for those of you at home. In 1986. Right.
00:41:38
Speaker
right And I didn't get a good idea if that was warranted, right? But it does make her out to be like a gold digger, right? 100%. And it also, it's her dad yeah sort of doing it. And she's living with her parents, yeah right? And this was a short-ish marriage, right? Let's see. well I mean, at this at this point, we're we would if they stayed together, we'd be coming up on their fourth anniversary.
00:42:03
Speaker
But they're not together. They break up shortly after the third anniversary. And this is like happening in June and July that this negotiation is ongoing. That's insane. Right. What her father is asking for is insane. Right.
00:42:16
Speaker
And it's also, i guess, a little bit of his place because she's living with him, but also, like, they took her back in, which is what you have to do. It's a weird dynamic that I'm seeing here, and it's it's sort of like, is he just doing her bidding?
00:42:32
Speaker
Well, i just want to point out to you, Remember how i said sometimes like your' if you present a bunch of lies, they can come out when you don't really believe that they're going to out? 100%. Yep.
00:42:45
Speaker
That's what happens here. Of course it does. Because of the ask of Wasserman of this huge amount of money, Russell Den's family lawyers, they basically say, look...
00:42:56
Speaker
She can support herself. She does not need that much money or that kind of monthly payment. So they get copies of her college records through subpoenas. Right. And so the idea was she's, you know, she was in graduate school and she had a degree, which none of that was true, right? Correct. They find out she had never even gotten her undergraduate degree and she had never been any kind of research assistant or graduate assistant anywhere.
00:43:19
Speaker
And that was probably really embarrassing for her. i bet it was embarrassing for her family that was demanding all this money. Right. Well, sure. And I don't know if it like backs up that she actually does need that assistance. or i don't even know i i have no idea where that stood. It is so far out of any reality I would have ever seen, right? As far as like $20,000 a month. Are you kidding me? Yeah. So now's that list that I promised you minute ago.
00:43:47
Speaker
August 1986, Lori reaches back out and tries to get a hold of Steve Witt. That's the pre-med, the guy that was going to be a doctor. The very first one. The the first one. He is a resident at a New York hospital.
00:44:01
Speaker
He's married. But the first thing that Lori tells him is that she had his baby while they were apart. So he has not seen Lori in more than five years at this point, and he does not believe her.
00:44:15
Speaker
So then Lori starts calling the hospital where he's working as a resident and claiming that he has sexually assaulted her in their hospital emergency room.
00:44:30
Speaker
About a month later, around their fourth anniversary, Russell is attacked in the night. This is according to both of those books I mentioned earlier, which is going to be your deep dive assignment if you want to get into this case once we tie it back into being hostage-taking.
00:44:47
Speaker
Russell accuses Laurie of having stabbed him in his sleep with an ice pick, missing his heart by... centimeters He did not see his attacker, and because of that, police decide not to press charges because they had already gotten a medical report that suggested that the injury could potentially have been self-inflicted.
00:45:14
Speaker
Not to mention, on top of all this, Russell had had enough of everything that was going on, and he was a dick towards investigators, and he had failed a polygraph test. Don't know what he failed on, but he failed a polygraph test, and this is according to Day of Fury and the other book, Murder of Innocence.
00:45:32
Speaker
During all of this time in 1986, Russell's family, the entire Dan family, is continuing to receive harassing phone calls. And finally, Lori Wasserman Dan is arrested for some of the calls that were made to Russell's sister.
00:45:47
Speaker
And I think it's because she was very young at the time. I don't know that for sure based on what's sitting in front of me. But those charges ended up being dropped due to a lack of evidence.
00:45:58
Speaker
So finally, February 1987, Laurie and Russell, they agree to split the profit from selling their house. They're going to take care of $10,000 in legal fees between them. And for three years, Laurie's going to get $1,250 a month.
00:46:13
Speaker
and still seems like a lot to me, but whatever. Right. For 1987, it is But it's significantly less than what Dad had been demanding. Just before the divorce is going to be finalized in April of 1987, Lori pulls out one last stop.
00:46:32
Speaker
She accuses Russell of raping her. Now, there's no physical science supporting what she said, but Lori passes two separate polygraphs stating that Russell had sexually assaulted her.
00:46:49
Speaker
By May, Lori accuses Russell of placing an incendiary device in her home. Police come to the home to to take a report and to find out what's going on, and she shows police an unexploded Molotov cocktail that she said had it been placed in her home, and she shows a lit candle that had been set up nearby to activate the fuse on this Molotov of cocktail.
00:47:14
Speaker
She also appears to show them a cut window screen, but... When the police go talk to Russell, it doesn't seem like he could have been there. There's nothing in his car that lines up with having carried around a Molotov cocktail because you're basically carrying around either gasoline or some other flammable liquid. So they don't file any charges after him for either alleged sexual assault or this alleged bombing.
00:47:43
Speaker
It is said that at the time, Lori's parents believed what she was saying, and they were still on her side throughout. But I will point out, by this time, she was being treated by a new psychiatrist who thought they could work on her obsessive-compulsive disorder, and they felt like they were observing what would be a chemical imbalance, which used to be the catchphrase for, we don't know what's happening here, but clearly something is happening here.
00:48:14
Speaker
Right, and there's no question, she was suffering from a chemical imbalance. Right. Like, I don't know that OCD, I don't know that the symptoms we see really reflect that. No, this is ah in addition to the OCD.
00:48:29
Speaker
Right, right, right, exactly. But this sort of swinging, because she either... was able to fake believing that he had sexually assaulted her or she believed it, right? It is unlikely that happened. It seemed like, I don't know if she was saying that it was sometime in the past, right? Yeah, I can't put any stock in it one way or the other. I just think...
00:48:52
Speaker
Well, I know that he wasn't interested in anything with her, right? And so that makes it really unlikely. Plus, that's also one of the things that happens in these power-shifting domestic violence-type situations. Yes.
00:49:06
Speaker
Women yell that they were attacked, right? Various false accusations. yeah Exactly. They rally the troops this way, getting her family to believe that something is happening. So during all this time, Lori has begun to work as a babysitter, and she is going around placing flyers up to advertise that she's doing this.
00:49:26
Speaker
According to new York Times article back in 1988, some of the clients thought well of her Others made complaints to police, like to the extent of police reports, about some of what she was doing, including theft and property damage.
00:49:45
Speaker
All of this having happened, in spite of the fact that like Norm Wasserman pays for some of the damages ah that have occurred here, and I think for a stolen item, but no charges are ever filed.
00:49:59
Speaker
So summer of 1987 rolls around. Lori goes over to Evanston, Illinois, and she sublets a university apartment there.
00:50:10
Speaker
And once again, people notice, like her neighbors notice, Landlord notices that something is very wrong with her. ah She would ride up and down the elevator for hours at a time. She would wear rubber or plastic gloves to touch metal. She would leave meat to rot in sofa cushions. According to...
00:50:29
Speaker
The university itself, she never enrolls. She's just there close to campus the whole time. Later in the fall, Lori had claimed that she'd been receiving letters from her ex-husband and that he had approached her in a parking lot and sexually assaulted her, but police did not believe her.
00:50:47
Speaker
Shortly after this happens, she purchases, according to Day of Fury, a.32 caliber Smith & Wessel Model 30, another revolver. So that's the second one, right? She's got two guns now. So it sounds like, oh, she does have two. She has two guns now. She has that Smith & Wesson Magnum, unless her family has it. Well, that's what I was going to say. It sounds like perhaps, like I was saying, it would fall on the parents to say, we're going to keep this gun safe. And maybe that's what they did, and she got another one. But we don't really know.
00:51:17
Speaker
Well. I think it's safe to say she did not need one gun, much less two. Well, Norm and his wife have figured out that something's wrong with Lori, and they start seeking specialized help. I will say that at the end of December 1987, Lori buys a.22LR Beretta 21A Bobcat, which is going to be a little tiny semi-automatic Beretta pistol.
00:51:40
Speaker
She's going to move back in January to live in student housing. Her family is finally going to figure out how to get her in essentially an observatory type setting with a psychiatrist. So it's a person that she's seeing regularly who's trying to figure out what's going on with her.
00:51:56
Speaker
They're going to put her anaphernal, which is, I think, myraine um This is a drug for OCD back then. They also add lithium to the mix to try and keep the mood swings down. They start putting her through different types of behavioral therapy to work on some of the observed OCD, which appears to be phobias and various ritualistic behaviors are are main symptoms.
00:52:24
Speaker
and And in spite of all this happening and her getting all these medications and this therapy and being under some level of observation, the behavior continues. She's still doing... things to the point that she's known as the psycho elevator lady for like riding up and down.
00:52:39
Speaker
and She becomes obsessed with the numbers of floors. She becomes obsessed with the numbers of television channels. She has an obsession with which numbers are good and which numbers are bad, and that is documented pretty well. There's also some concerns about like her weight fluctuating to the point that it's believed she's potentially bulimic.
00:52:57
Speaker
In March of 1988, she just ticks psychiatrists and behavioral therapy altogether. At this time, she starts to make preparations to do something bigger.
00:53:09
Speaker
She is stealing books from the local library that are on some concerning subjects. It is believed that she is starting to stockpile ah chemicals, and it's sort of put together at some point, but the books she's taking from the library are about poison, and the chemicals that she's stockpiling are diluted versions of what the book is talking about.
00:53:33
Speaker
She's shoplifting different clothes, wigs, makeup to potentially disguise herself. She is arrested at one point for misdemeanor larceny. The psychiatrist that she kicked to the curb back in March and Norm Wasserman, they try to persuade Lori to enter a hospital for what would basically be inpatient care, and they're unable to the 1988 version of an involuntary commitment or an IVC, and she refuses to do it herself.
00:54:03
Speaker
She's harassing at this point her, not just the Dan family, but also the people that had fired her as their babysitter and some of the people that didn't fire her. She just stopped working for them. um The calls escalate to the point that ah she's telling some of the former babysitting clients that their children are going to die.
00:54:23
Speaker
She eventually calls ah to Steve, who has moved from New York to Arizona and starts making death threats to him as well. And she starts randomly calling people and she ends up talking to a few people. I no connection to her at all.
00:54:42
Speaker
And she once ends up on the phone with a family of a boy who had won a local spelling bee. And she told whoever answered the phone that she was going to kill him.
00:54:54
Speaker
um In May of 1988, there was a letter that was can confirmed to have been sent by Lori. It was sent to New York to the hospital administration where her ex-boyfriend had worked.
00:55:06
Speaker
And a copy of this letter, if I'm understanding all this correctly, a copy of this letter is then sent to Arizona when she discovers he no longer lives in New York. I'm not 100% sure that I've understood all of that.
00:55:18
Speaker
But an assistant U.S. attorney named Janet Johnson, she gets involved at this point, and she considers charging Lori with making threatening interstate phone calls. And she said that she started getting taped evidence, she being the AUSA involved here.
00:55:36
Speaker
She said the taped calls that people were were, the recordings that people were making of these calls that Lori was making were frightening. Police were unable to convince Norm Wasserman to let them get their hands on Lori's guns.
00:55:52
Speaker
And Steve Witt is scared to death in the middle of all of this. He is concerned that Lori is going to get out and then try to really kill him. And like basically make it make good on her death threats.
00:56:03
Speaker
But he waits a little while until other charges are filed over in Illinois. That same month, a janitor finds Lori inside a garbage bag in the trash room.
00:56:15
Speaker
This precipitates the search of her room. And and she leaves her housing at the time to go back to live with her parents. I'm sorry, did you say that he found her in a trash bag? Yeah, in the trash room, inside a garbage bag, in the fetal position.
00:56:33
Speaker
So she like threw herself away? She did. She threw herself away. um but She moves back in with her parents, and fbi agents arrive to question her about the threatening phone calls that she started making to Steve Witt.
00:56:46
Speaker
But when they come to talk to her again, she's gone. And threatening phone calls were not very high on the FBI's list in 1988, so they don't pursue it any further.
00:56:59
Speaker
During the the days before... her big deumah here. Lori starts preparing ah rice crispy treats with diluted arsenic in them and starts injecting juice boxes with arsenic.
00:57:15
Speaker
This is the stuff she had stolen. like earlier in the year than the previous year. She's mailing these treats to a former acquaintance, former babysitting clients, to her ex-husband, to several of the people that have attempted to help her over the years, including, I believe, the one of the psychiatrists, or maybe two of them, and a therapist.
00:57:38
Speaker
In the early morning hours of ah May 20th of 1988, she starts to personally deliver these snacks and juice samples to some of the intended recipients.
00:57:49
Speaker
Other snacks are distributed to the Alpha Tau Omega and Psi Upsilon and Kappa Sigma fraternity houses and Leveron Hall at Northwestern University with notes attached some of these ah deliveries.
00:58:01
Speaker
The drinks were all noticeably leaking and the Rice Krispie squares were unpleasant, so very few of these were actually can consumed by anyone who saw this crazy woman coming around offering them, quote, treats.
00:58:17
Speaker
That's insane. It is. It's truly insane. um The arsenic in here, just in case you're wondering at home, the the level of it was laboratory safe so that students could use it.
00:58:30
Speaker
So it wasn't actually possible to kill anyone with what she was doing in this way. But by about nine o'clock in the morning, she arrives back in Winnetka, which is where she had done quite a bit of babysitting in her parents' neighborhood.
00:58:49
Speaker
She's there to pick up the two youngest children from a family called the Rush family. The day before, she'd offered to start babysitting again, but she was told they didn't need a babysitter at this time. They were going to be moving to New York anyways. But Lori apparently is able to charm mom and dad into letting her take the two boys to a fair.
00:59:09
Speaker
But instead of taking these two children on a promised outing, she takes them over to a local elementary school in Highland Park. She believed that both of her former sister-in-law, so this is back to the Dan family, ah two sons were enrolled there.
00:59:26
Speaker
But it turns out that they were not. And it turns out that the targets that Lori had sort of developed for her master plan here that begins with these weird... the Rice Krispie Treats and juices she's handing out, doesn't even go to school here. She leaves the two children in her car and she goes into the school and she tries to set off a Molotov cocktail on one of the corridors that um at the ah Ravinia Elementary School in Highland Park.
00:59:56
Speaker
So after she leaves, there is like a small fire that comes about because of this device, but students and the teacher find it and quickly put it out. So then Lori drives over to a Jewish daycare center, which is where her ex-sister-in-law's daughter goes to school.
01:00:18
Speaker
She enters the building with a plastic jug of gasoline, like one of the red cans that you would use to um fill it up is what I had pictured at first, but I think it's actually a milk jug. Okay. So she then...
01:00:34
Speaker
drives the two kids with her back to their home and she gives them some milk, which turns out to taste weird because spoiler alert, she had put the arsenic in it.
01:00:46
Speaker
Once inside the home, Lori lures these kids downstairs and sets fire to the house, trapping them with their mother in the basement.
01:01:00
Speaker
They do manage to get out safely. She then drives three and a half, almost four blocks back to Hubbard Woods Elementary School. Keep in mind, what does she have with her that the police want but can't have?
01:01:13
Speaker
The guns. Three handguns. Yep. It has three handguns on her. So it's speculated that she was out to get...
01:01:24
Speaker
other Rush family children. I don't know if that's the case or not. That's just what the law enforcement came out and said, look, we think this is why she focused on those kids. Now they're going to find these kids.
01:01:36
Speaker
She walks into a second grade classroom for a short while, and then she leaves. She finds a boy in the hallway. This is six-year-old Robert Trestman. And Lori pushes him into the boy's bathroom, and she shoots him in the chest with that.22 caliber Beretta.
01:01:54
Speaker
Her Smith & Wesson revolver jammed when she tries to fire at two other boys. So she throws that weapon and the spare ammunition for it into the trash can. I do not know how you jam a Smith & Wesson revolver, by the way. i have looked at what they're saying here, and I do not understand it. I think she had something stuck in the firing pin the whole time that just wouldn't let it fire.
01:02:18
Speaker
um I think you're
Hostage Situation and Tragic End
01:02:20
Speaker
probably right. So these boys run. They alert staff. She then goes into the second grade classroom that she had been in earlier, and the students are working in groups on a bicycle safety test.
01:02:31
Speaker
She orders all the children into one corner of the room. The teacher attempts to disarm Lori Wasserman Dan. During the struggle, they unload the.22LR Beretta.
01:02:43
Speaker
And Lori pulls the Smith and Wesson, ah the other other revolver from the waistband of her shorts, and she points it into the groups of children.
01:02:55
Speaker
And she shoots five of them. She wounds Mark Tiborak, Peter Monroe, ah Lindsey Fisher, and Catherine Miller.
01:03:07
Speaker
And she kills a little boy named Nick Corwin, who was eight years old.
01:03:15
Speaker
And then after she's done this, she flees. She sees a police car coming towards her and she loops back around. And here's where we get to the hostage part.
01:03:28
Speaker
Lori can't get out of the area because cops had closed down the roads to do he a funeral procession. So she's driving backwards down a nearby street She takes a corner too fast as she's reversing and she crashes into a tree.
01:03:47
Speaker
She gets out of her wrecked car and she realizes that from shooting the two boys, ah the one in the bathroom and when she hit Nick and the around with other children around Nick, she's got blood on her shorts. So she takes her shorts off.
01:04:05
Speaker
ah She ends up tying a blue garbage bag around her waist. So at this point in time, she has the Beretta. She has the revolver. She threw the other revolver and the spare ammunition away. i don't know what she has in terms of bullets when this moment is happening.
01:04:22
Speaker
But she comes upon the house of a family called the Andrews. She enters this house and she meets mom, Mrs. Andrew, and her 21-year-old son, Phillip, who are standing in their kitchen having a totally normal morning until this insane person in a blue plastic bag storms into their house with guns.
01:04:46
Speaker
She claims that she's been raped by a man in her car and that she had shot the rapist in the struggle, but that the police didn't know this and that the police were after her. So this family takes Lori's story for exactly what she's saying.
01:05:03
Speaker
And they're trying to convince her that she doesn't need to fear the police because that would totally be self-defense the man was raping her. This family like believes her enough that they give Lori a pair of pants from one of their children's wardrobes.
01:05:18
Speaker
And she's putting them on. And the 21-year-old pretty smart. he is able to slip the.22LR Beretta, the little semi-automatic pistol, into his pocket.
01:05:31
Speaker
And at this point in time, Lori calls her mom and tells her something terrible has happened. Some reports say that she tells her mom she had done something terrible. I'm not sure about that.
01:05:42
Speaker
But she does tell her that the police are involved. So the son here, Phillip, he takes the phone and he explains Lori's story about allegedly a rape and a shooting. And she suggests, he suggests to Lori's mom that she come pick her up.
01:05:59
Speaker
And Lori's mom says she can't help them because she doesn't have a car. So after dad gets home for the Andrews family, the family begins to insist that Lori give up the other gun.
01:06:13
Speaker
So Lori calls her mom again and Mr. Andrews speaks to them. And he tells her, that if they're going to help her, Lori has to give up this gun. Edith does not seem to understand what is happening or care, but she tells Mr. Andrew that she wished her daughter well and hopes that she gets home safely.
01:06:40
Speaker
And then she hung up. And we just figured out what all the problem is. Yeah. ah Apparently a copious amount of volume. During this call, mom, Mrs. Andrew, she gets out and she goes and finds the cops.
01:06:55
Speaker
Mr. Andrew tells Lori that he's not staying there if she doesn't put the gun down. Lori orders the 21-year-old son to stay with her. And just before noon, Lori sees the police are advancing on the house and she shoots the 21-year-old in the chest.
01:07:13
Speaker
He is able to get out. um He escapes through the back door. He collapses there and he's finally rescued by first responders. So the house is surrounded. The Andrew house is surrounded.
01:07:24
Speaker
Lori goes upstairs into a bedroom. Police start gathering up people in her life. They get Edith and Norm, her parents. They go and get Russell Dan and they bring them all to this house.
01:07:37
Speaker
About 7 an assault team enters the house while Norm is yelling into a bullhorn trying to get her attention. And the police find her body in the back bedroom. She had shot herself in the mouth.
01:07:56
Speaker
So she'd lost her mind. That was the breaking point. Yeah. Yeah. See, she had like a lot going on there. i can't like defend anything that happened there.
01:08:10
Speaker
But, you know. That family was extremely kind and patient with her. yeah And have to say...
01:08:21
Speaker
I would not react that way under that. If somebody's in my house that I did not specifically invite to come there, there's a big problem. Patience as far as like, oh if you're, you know, we're going to help you, you've got to give us the other gun, right? Yeah. um No, i just, I feel like that was a, it may be a testament to like how unassuming she was if you didn't know her, right? Because they took her story at face value Right. They had no idea what she had just done. And the mom, very concerning. However, I do understand that at some point in time, you just could throw your hands up in the air and say, I don't know what to do with my child. Right. Yeah.
01:09:02
Speaker
I feel like I would probably have to put my hands back down, though, as soon as she became another family's problem. Right. Yeah. So that this is a tragic, tragic story. And, you know, like you said, ah Nick Corwin, who was eight years old, she killed him, right? Yeah. She injured multiple people with with a gun.
01:09:29
Speaker
She did. Crazy. She never should have had a gun to begin with. And there were so many things... leading up to this that were big red flags. A lot of times we get these like, ah sort of rampage type situations and people will say there is nothing that we saw. Right. Yeah. And that's just not the case here. i mean, she, she was the crazy elevator lady.
01:09:57
Speaker
She served her her in-laws
Media Impact and Conspiracy Theories
01:10:00
Speaker
rotted potatoes. I mean, there was a lot of things happening here that should have been some signs. Yeah. There should have been signs here. um one of the reasons I picked this story is there's a lot of conspiracy theories that toss to this story because of the behavior of the parents after the fact and what the police did related to the attempted deaths of quite a few people because it is, like, wildly...
01:10:26
Speaker
more widespread than people realize. She just failed um because of the poisoning's not working and, like, ultimately a lot of the shooting didn't work. And I can't really...
01:10:38
Speaker
wrap my mind around that completely because she was just taking the really long way to suicide here right yeah she was taking the really long way to suicide philip andrew is 21 years old when this is going down i think i've seen him reported as 20 i think he's 21 um pointing out that like the kids that are involved are six to eight years old the kid that she killed nicholas corwin is eight years old and she shot philip andrew who is the 21 year old so I'm saying all of this because there's a really important part to the story that a lot of people know. So this would have happened in sort of the wake of the Tylenol poisonings.
01:11:13
Speaker
Do you remember us talking about that? um That would have happened in 1982. Okay. And I was going to say, like, that's still... Unsolved. Right. Okay. But allegedly there were two newspaper clippings in her pocket. One apparently was about a man who had killed two people in a public building.
01:11:35
Speaker
The other was about a depressed young man who had attempted to commit suicide the same way that Lori had, but he had survived. And he discovered that his the brain injury he had had cured him of his OCD. Right.
01:11:54
Speaker
The brain injury he had from shooting himself? I think so. Okay. There's a lot going on here with this woman. She does get investigated as a possible suspect in the Tylenol murders.
01:12:06
Speaker
There's no connection found. She's never actually ruled out because of the timing of it all. But I doubt it's her because of the timing of when she finally gets her hands on actual poison.
01:12:17
Speaker
It would be a little bit early. Yeah, it would be a stretch. um She was on ah the drug that I described, clomipramine, and not been approved by the FDA at the time for prescription usage.
01:12:31
Speaker
So that comes up in some of the conspiracy theories. and there's other horrible things out there in terms of this conspiracy theories. If you're going to read more about this one because I know some people do this, I would say stick to um the Joel Kaplan, there's a couple other authors on that book with him, Murder of Innocence, and the book ah Day of Fury, which...
01:12:56
Speaker
I think Day of Fury, I had it somewhere in my notes here. It was written by, of Fury is written by Joyce Edgington. So if you're going to read, those are the two to read about. And i recommended Murder of Innocence, which is a It's also a book, but it's written by the people from the Chicago Tribune at the time.
01:13:19
Speaker
um Both of those books are the go-to places to not get embroiled in all the conspiracy nonsense on the Internet. The story that I told you was as bare bones as I could possibly make it and know that I could back everything up with a fact.
01:13:34
Speaker
Right. And I don't really think um this warranted attention because, again, you know, there was an eight-year-old young boy killed for, like, basically absolutely no reason. and Right.
01:13:48
Speaker
And a 30-year-old woman had lost her mind. Right. And because of the death of Nick Corwin and the coverage of his death, specifically, and how crazy all of this was, this is considered to be the very first story in the 24-hour news cycle.
01:14:06
Speaker
Oh, I believe that actually, um because the one of the other elements about this case, um we talked a lot about like sort of leading up to it because I felt like that was really important. But also, in a way, she had sort of a rolling hostage situation. Yes.
01:14:26
Speaker
And that's interesting, right? Because to me, that's like somebody who's really out of control. 100%. Because she went like from one place to another and like everywhere she went, she was just causing mayhem and holding people hostage. And, you know, she did. I'm not, she said they were, are what I've seen is they were injured. There were one, two, three, four, five, six to eight year olds injured, which I don't know if that means that they were shot.
01:14:56
Speaker
they are They were all shot. Okay. and ah But only one died. Right. And then um Philip Andrew survived, right? i mean, he was older and he was in his house. And she just, she didn't know them, right? Right. This was all random. She just, after she was trying to escape, having gone into the school...
01:15:18
Speaker
she ended up at this house and they were very kind to her and they were held hostage. And it is, it is, i think just the, that's one of the most unique things about this particular case is how she went from place to place and like nobody could stop her. Nobody really knew what to do with her. And then ultimately she ended it herself. Right. Yes.
01:15:42
Speaker
Which is kind of a control thing, but It's unfortunate that we don't have more insight. I wonder if the medicine didn't contribute. um i do think that one of the things that I've always seen is just like the right medicine can be just like life-changing, wrong medicine can be catastrophic. It's also life-changing.
01:16:08
Speaker
Yeah, it is life-changing. But I often wonder like, In this particular case, I mean, this is a worst case scenario, right? Yes. um As far as I'm concerned, an eight-year-old young man was was killed yeah in a place where he shouldn't have even dreamt of ever being in danger.
01:16:31
Speaker
I wonder, I immediately go like, well, how could this have been prevented? and in this particular case, I have to say the way it would have been prevented would be that she couldn't have had guns. Right.
01:16:42
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's some of that it's been resolved by kind of how guns are approved now. Like ah so she got them under the Brady deadline, which is essentially if you go to get a gun and you don't quite pass the background check, but there's no reason for you not to pass the background check.
01:17:03
Speaker
They'll hold the gun for three business days. They call it the Brady Day. um You're then allowed to go and pick the gun up. It's to put some time and distance between the purchase and the pickup.
01:17:14
Speaker
And the idea would be that if you were going to like immediately go shoot someone, you just had three days to think about it. Yeah, that's ah that's part of like the concept. It goes back all the way to the shooting of of President Ronald Reagan. um So, yeah, that's that's how that kind of plays out. Those are the laws that have been kind of put in place over the years. There are other things now where some of the things that can get disqualified, at least temporarily for gun ownership, is if you've been involuntarily committed.
01:17:42
Speaker
um which people argue that like that should have happened somewhere in here um i don't know if it makes a difference or not maybe it prevents it this time but does it you know end up being a different kid at a different time or and so it really does so that will show up i mean because that's a whole like legal matter right right it uh so
01:18:05
Speaker
To answer your question, there was a period of time where it would show up, but it doesn't now. So the period of time where you could have access to that is predicated on a lot of things, but here's how it would work.
01:18:19
Speaker
A lot of jurisdictions used to require you to have a handgun permit at the state or county level. Typically, an IVC, which is an involuntary commitment order, is by a magistrate or a district court judge in a lot of jurisdictions. Sometimes it's slightly different title that utilizes the local sheriff to serve you who would also have you on the rolls related to handgun permits.
01:18:46
Speaker
Now over the years, they could cross reference it. Yes. That cross reference would have occurred for a period of time just based on, they could at least tell if it were recent.
01:18:58
Speaker
Like if there was a service within a year, they punch your name into a computer, even the older computers that police agencies had, sheriffs could see the person applying for the handgun permit in front of me also had an IVC three months ago and we went out to his house and served it on it or her or whatever.
01:19:15
Speaker
So they could see that part of it. Right. And so I guess that would just be like, that couldn't keep them from, could it keep them from issuing it? and vi the snake Depends on the state and the jurisdiction. like Sometimes it could have. like It depends on like some of the outcomes of there. Because some people can be IVC'd and it can turn out to be like a totally normal thing happened. like Turns out that was caused by epilepsy.
01:19:41
Speaker
You were IVC'd. They released you after 72 hours or whatever. And like life went on as normal and you never had that problem with again. We've talked about Zoloft and other medications that can make people do things when they don't know what they're taking and like how it's rare. And I think that's what really applies here is that Lori Wasserman, I guess known as Lori Dan for this, I don't mean to deceive people, but ultimately she's Lori Wasserman to me.
01:20:06
Speaker
I think Lori Wasserman is this really strange exception to a bunch of rules. And, trying to, which they did in the 24-hour news cycle, like, they ramped this up to be, like, against gun control, everything about Lori Wasserman.
01:20:24
Speaker
Ultimately, i don't think you have another Lori Wasserman, ever. it It's unique, right? Yeah, all of this is, like, such a strange set of circumstances that, like, and I don't just mean, like, you can't duplicate this, because obviously there's other people here. I just don't think you're going to come across somebody, like,
01:20:44
Speaker
Like, if she were smarter, which probably means that life had moved on in a different way, or if she had more control over her OCD, which also probably means that life moved on in a different way, then...
01:21:02
Speaker
The results of what she was doing with some intelligence and control applied could have been absolutely catastrophic. She could have killed four fraternities and sororities, ah potentially about 50 elementary school kids, and a big chunk of her in-laws and her family, and the and the Andrews family.
01:21:22
Speaker
Exactly. And that's where it's sort of like, it's got to be grace or something, right? that yeah That she wasn't more in control and that there were these flags that allowed more catastrophic things not to happen, right? Right. But ultimately, like if she had been in more control, she wouldn't have done it the first place.
01:21:42
Speaker
Well, right. And that's just, I mean, I would say a rock and a hard place, but that's not really true because... it it just wouldn't have happened. no This isn't something that anybody that has ah healthy mental facilities like strives for, right? It's just terrorizing children, young children is not from a good place ever, no matter who you're trying to get back at. Now, a lot of that seemed, it seemed to stem from, she was constantly being treated badly in her perspective and,
01:22:14
Speaker
It seems like the the babysitting is what led her particularly to try, and then I guess the family, right? Right. so it she really got fixated on some things that really didn't matter. um Yeah, I think she was just kind of bouncing kind of vine to vine on things that she was obsessed with. she She had to focus on something, and it did. it had to be external of herself.
01:22:42
Speaker
Right. And then, you know, she had chips on her shoulders. um And her mom's response, it really told me a lot because in my opinion, her mom's response, I have a feeling that she got that response a lot. Oh, yeah.
01:22:58
Speaker
Part of the stuff she was doing, it kind of, it's weird because it kind of reminds me of, it's more of a an adolescent boy than a girl, but like in this case, she was female. And it's like things that you do when any attention even bad attention is some attention, right? Yes. Like all of her um various sort of, I've been assaulted, her trying to, ahs or her stab, I guess she stabbed him. She actually did stab him with the ice pick.
01:23:35
Speaker
um All of that kind of behavior, it's like any attention is attention, even if it's bad attention, right? So it's almost like, I don't know much about, like, we didn't hear a whole lot from about her mom other than that phone call right from the Andrew house. and But that alone makes me think maybe she just didn't get...
01:23:57
Speaker
enough reaction from her mother and she had gone to extreme measures to get something. And, you know, that kind of thing is programmed in our heads very, very young if that's the way it's going to go. 100%.
01:24:11
Speaker
And I don't know how much control she would have over it, but when you're dealing, there's no question she was, like everything she did was very childish, right? And to me, that and I know we can't gauge that maturity level when we hand out permits for guns, right? And i i feel like parents that are in a position like this where they have a child like this, they should, I don't know, actively try to not to discourage access. I don't know. I don't know what the answer is. But I feel like um she demonstrated over and over again she wasn't mature enough to have a gun. Oh, 100%. Yeah.
01:24:53
Speaker
I mean, like, there's things that she's doing here – I don't know what people in our audience know about guns, but like 22 semi-automatic 22LR pistol versus a.357 Magnum Smith & Wesson revolver are so wildly different weapons.
01:25:15
Speaker
Like, to put it politely, it's like not even this it's the, like they would not be used by the same person. Well, right, and she had told the gun ah store owner or whatever, whoever she got one of the guns from, she had said it's for self-defense. Well, a self-defense, in my opinion, okay, I'm not a a gun connoisseur or i don't, I don't have a collection of guns. I have one gun for self-defense. I haven't seen
Discussion on Self-Defense and Tragic Events
01:25:48
Speaker
it in years. um I would only pull the gun out in the event that I was about to shoot somebody. I was about to unload it in somebody's chest that was in my house. Right. So I don't go shooting, you know, people do that. It's fun for them, whatever, but that's not a self-defense that that's not people who have guns for self-defense. Right.
01:26:08
Speaker
Guns for self-defense is one reliable. My, my guns are revolver, right? yeah it' It's reliable. It's going to shoot. It's going to, shoot and it's got a, I don't even know what it is. i think it's a three 57 Magnum revolver. Maybe. Does that sound right? yeah do that are thirty eight at your house I'm going to pull it out and I'm going to shoot and hopefully I won't ever do that. Right. yeah And there was nothing about self-defense that she needed to be traveling to take care of. In fact,
01:26:37
Speaker
you would never travel for self-defense, right? ah It comes to you and you take care of it. I also have a baseball bat, which would be my first choice actually, but you know, it is what it is, but I feel like she was very misguided a lot of things.
01:26:56
Speaker
And it's a very, very sad, it's sad that Nick Corwin
01:27:04
Speaker
was murdered. His life was cut very, very short. And I do think that that is what... and' so That's what spirals the story, is that what you mean?
01:27:17
Speaker
Yeah. But also the rest of the story unfolding is what keeps it... So, you know, to give you an idea, so this is seven years before OJ.
01:27:28
Speaker
OJ is considered to be one of the first big viral moments. I disagree. That's just lazy reporting when people say things like that. This is a story that each press conference the police have between about day of, May 20th, May 21st, I think is the... i don't think there was press conference that night, but I could be wrong.
01:27:49
Speaker
um I think i the first one I saw was May 21st. I know that it hits the news the next day. and I know People Magazine covered it by June So... so give or take two weeks.
01:28:04
Speaker
Right. That's a huge deal for 1988 for People Magazine to be covering a story. And this is the cover story. A lot of work goes into a cover story for those of you who don't know. it Back then it took an average of three to six months to put a cover story together. Right, but this was a this was a big deal.
01:28:23
Speaker
every Every press conference they had, they had to say some new piece of batshit information to the public. So it starts with a woman went into a home and took hostages and shot the son in the home.
01:28:39
Speaker
And then it says, police believe the same woman shot children in an elementary school. And then it's police believe the same woman has now, they're confirming there was a story that she claimed she had been raped then police believe the same woman who claimed that she'd been raped when she took hostage and she shot this man and killed a child in the elementary school, while wounding several others, also sent poisonous things to ah fraternity on Northwestern's campus. And then the next one is she also sent poisonous things to children she used to babysit for, two fraternities, a sorority, and this random group of people.
01:29:19
Speaker
like So every time they talked about her, It just got crazier. Right, and it's almost to a point of being unbelievable, right? It is unbelievable. like if you didn't back it up with facts, which is why it's able to be laden in a bunch of conspiracies, they' they're definitely, like, if you're diving on the internet, there are rabbit holes to go down here that are terrible, where there's, like, some anti-Semitism, there's, like, propping her up for, like, men's rights and against men's rights, and, like, just other nonsense that happens with this story because there's so many elements to it that are strange.
01:29:54
Speaker
And... The truth is, for months after that, like, Russell comes forward, Steve Witt comes forward, and, like, every time you talk to someone, this woman has, like, not gotten saner.
01:30:08
Speaker
Like, she snapped a long time ago, and she's been out wandering around. Right, exactly. And the end result was she killed herself in these people's house. So you circle back around to the beginning when you finally get the whole story, and then you're telling, like,
01:30:23
Speaker
something that like, like you said, it sounds like fiction.
01:30:28
Speaker
Right. And it's eyeopening. It definitely was a huge news story. It deserved to be a huge news story. And it sort of brought all these things together that, you know,
01:30:41
Speaker
It is like fiction, except it happened. And I think you're absolutely right. I'm pretty sure we've never had another one. i doubt very seriously we will have another
Mental Health Stigma and Empathy
01:30:50
Speaker
one. um And that might even just be because ah antidepressants are so much more more readily available now. Well, psychiatric help is ah ah itself is more readily available, but it's also not as taboo as it was. Right, exactly. And I do feel like the taboo part played a large part into this. Right, yeah. Because it was almost, which, don't get me wrong, the stuff she was doing was it could make
01:31:25
Speaker
ah you know her husband feel ashamed of the situation when his wife serves his family rotten potatoes right yeah so i mean it the taboo isn't necessarily ah it causes a lot of shame and i feel like that's sort of i think she dealt with a lot of that right yeah and it wasn't necessarily her fault but It's unfortunate that she couldn't get a better handle on it, and it's very unfortunate that Nick Corwin died. And i feel i I'm pretty sure the rest, everybody else that was injured, they made a full recovery, I believe.
01:32:01
Speaker
um Yeah, and they're they're all mentioned in the books. They get a little more into detail with the family dynamics in the books. I will warn you, if you go down that rabbit hole, I would just go ahead and tell you, it's long. Like, if I would have followed all of the little tentacles of the book,
01:32:15
Speaker
We would have been here for six episodes untangling this. um And and for I feel like this is a great episode for the, ha especially the rolling hostage situation, right? Yeah. um But as far as this woman having this, you know, mental breakdown,
01:32:32
Speaker
i don't feel I don't know how much light should be shot. I don't think we should do six episodes on it. You know what mean? like I know this is kind of a long episode and it's lumped together with our hostages um for the holidays.
01:32:44
Speaker
But to me, this is a crisis happening even to the perpetrator, right? Oh, absolutely. That's the other thing is like... it I have some empathy for her.
01:32:56
Speaker
I don't have a lot of sympathy for her. I have empathy for her because i can see at different phases. And again, I'm kind of dipping into the books a little too much, but I can see at different places and times where she genuinely thought she was doing something that would help her.
01:33:14
Speaker
And then i see like her response to that when it doesn't help her is to take it out on the people around her. And I'm like, it's really hard to keep up with you lady. And it's really hard to like, keep thinking, I hope you get some help.
01:33:27
Speaker
Well, right. And a lot of it to me is like perfect. She's having perfectly normal stuff happen to her that happens to just about everybody. She's just not handling it well. Correct.
01:33:38
Speaker
And her her reactions are what is causing the ultimate problems. And i don't know. I don't know what the answer um at that point would be, right? it's It is what it is. And it just seems like she struggled to grow up. Yeah. Yeah.
01:33:55
Speaker
Yeah, I feel for this woman and her family, but like, damn, they left a trail of victims. And I i do think her family kind of ties into having a little bit of responsibility for her. And there's a little more explained about the mom in the books. And that's an interesting dynamic of like how...
01:34:12
Speaker
Lori would have seen her parents growing up and how that could shaped some of what was going on. And there's some other allegations in there that I can't substantiate that people can look at and think what you want on it. I mean, you know, there's there's a lot, there's like this sprawling list of like people affected by this. i mean, the victim's list is not short here. let's just be honest. Like it's a lot of people and like you have to count the people that she's trying to kill with the rice, crispy rice, crispy treats and the juices But like, you know, that's a little less serious than the fact that like she's tied. So, so poisoning is typically like a thing that you see mentally ill women do. You see men do it, but like it is a choice of mentally ill women that like we have recognized throughout history.
01:35:01
Speaker
I think it's actually, like, the number one choice. Yeah. um You get a lot of situations with wives poisoning their husbands or children or whatever. Yeah, and, like, so it's very rare that those people also shoot people.
01:35:15
Speaker
um It's very rare that those people shoot people and potentially stab people. Well, right, and that they, especially, like, all of the causes behind where she went everything, they were personal, but, like, the people...
Narrative and Infamy
01:35:30
Speaker
They didn't know her. but Well, it almost never ends with a gunshot to your own head if you're a woman who's poisoning people. Oh, and you're right. And I think there's a lot of ah dynamics to explore there, right? Yeah. As far as like what's going on. Yeah, just for context of all of this.
01:35:52
Speaker
So when she dies, Laurie Wasserman... is 30 years old. Yep. She did all of this before she turned 31.
01:36:05
Speaker
Yep. And um ah a lot of it was in a very condensed period of time, right? After her marriage soured. Yeah. I tried to warn you guys at the beginning of this one that it was going to be, like, definitely one of the more depressing ones. So...
01:36:19
Speaker
so I hope that it wasn't too depressing. And I am going to try and like follow up with some lighter hearted stuff in this series as we go. But I did want to get the story out there because like you said, like it's it's hard to put all this in a big sensationalized thing because of.
01:36:38
Speaker
How much tragedy there is on all just sort of all over the story. ah You don't want to do a multi part podcast about it, but like if you really were to dig into it, you kind of need to. But I felt like it fit nicely here in the on the hostages for the holiday story, even though it's an unusual type of hostage situations, it's kind of like this woman's life had at some point been multiple hostage situations.
01:37:03
Speaker
Like, and this day was rolling hostage situations, i think is how you described it. And that's very accurate. Yes. And you don't see that a whole lot. A lot of times, uh, hostage situations come on as a surprise, but then they sort of end the same way. And this was a crazy day for her. Yeah. This follows more the path of a spree killer than it does It really does. and And that's interesting because she actually was like sort of a wannabe like mass killer, right? Yep.
01:37:33
Speaker
She wanted to be remembered. You know, which is interesting because I don't think she has been. No, no. she's been like i don't I don't know that like people aren't covering this story. i have not sought out a lot of coverage. I've sought out like old stuff on this story.
01:37:53
Speaker
And I, I mentioned the books because those are the best sources I found. And like anything after those books, honestly, it's probably going to have some conspiracy laden nonsense somewhere. Right.
01:38:04
Speaker
right And I just, i don't think that that's part of the story oh real story here. It's pretty straightforward yeah and very sad. Yeah. I think, I think the, the,
01:38:16
Speaker
Weirdly, i think the person that was being held hostage the most here was Lori Wasserman holding Lori Wasserman hostage.
01:38:26
Speaker
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01:38:37
Speaker
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01:40:42
Speaker
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01:41:00
Speaker
Thank you for joining us.