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Turning the tables on Will Kingston
2.2k Plays2 months ago
Comic and GB News Host Nick Dixon was on the show a few weeks ago. He returned the favour by inviting Will on his podcast, "The Current Thing," last week. This podcasting pyramid scheme turned out rather well – it was a fun conversation covering the US election, the latest Churchill controversy, and the Starmergeddon facing Britain.
Follow Will Kingston and Fire at Will on social media here.
Read The Spectator Australia here.
Follow "The Current Thing" here.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Promotion
00:00:19
Speaker
G'day and welcome to Fire at Will, a safe space for dangerous conversations. I'm Will Kingston. If for some reason you are not already following the show on a streaming service, you can find us everywhere from Spotify to Apple Podcasts to YouTube. If you like what you hear here, please consider giving us a glowing five star review. If you don't like what you hear here, please forget I said anything.
Podcast Exchange and Audience Growth
00:00:46
Speaker
We're doing something a bit different this week. You may remember the fantastic comic and GB news host, Nick Dixon, was on the show a few weeks ago. He returned the favor by inviting me on his podcast, The Current Thing, last week. This podcasting pyramid scheme turned out rather well. It was a fun conversation covering the US election, the latest Churchill controversy, and the starmageddon facing Britain. I think you'll enjoy it. Roll the tape.
00:01:14
Speaker
are a um know um man
00:01:27
Speaker
Hello and welcome to The Current Thing with me, Nick Dixon. We're doing another one of our topical shows. This is now a topical show. It's the third week we've been doing it as a topical show, but I also still do my guest interviews. I've got a very exciting and controversial one coming out soon, which you can find on nickdixon.net, which is where I'm going to post all my full guest interviews. But this is a free podcast I'm doing because I'm such a nice guy and it's called The Current Thing. We do Topical stuff every week topical banter and we have another great guest today He's the host of fire at will which is a podcast with the spectator. It is of course mr. Will Kingston. Thanks so much for doing the show will Pleasure to be on happy to ah to help you with some more free content for the masses Yeah, cuz I did your show which was really good fire at will highly recommended and then I thought hey come on my show and we'll you know, just do some sort of pyramid scheme of topical banter and
00:02:15
Speaker
Yeah, exactly right. The millions of listeners that I have on the books were absolutely enthralled with what you had to say. So I'm looking forward to being able to reciprocate here. I like two things about that. One, you did the Trump millions and millions. You always say millions of billions. And two, you started sarcastically about your listeners and then you said they're enthralled. So I'm like, where does the sarcasm end? Were they not enthralled? Or do you have millions of listeners and they were all enthralled? Do you have not that, you know, see what I mean?
00:02:43
Speaker
i I have that awful tendency now where I fall into sarcasm or irony so regularly that I actually don't know when I'm being sarcastic or ironic and when I'm being authentic. It's actually, it's a very dangerous thing for social interaction. Yeah, it's a thin line. I think the Australian sense of humor is I understand that it's pretty dry anyway, right? Yeah, I would say. So it's definitely more aligned with the British sense of humor than say the Americans who don't understand irony at all. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm from the North Minnesota.
Analysis of Kamala Harris' Political Tactics
00:03:12
Speaker
I think we're basically the same.
00:03:14
Speaker
and Speaking of Americans that don't understand the irony, we're going to start by doing the ah the Trump-Harris debate on ABC. I stayed up to watch it till 4am. I was telling well before I missed the very start because I was watching Outlast, which is a survival-based reality show on Netflix where I had to drag myself away from watching a American Hicks trying to kill each other in tents to ah watching Trump versus Harris. And a lot of people saying that Harris did surprisingly well. I think that's a little bit overplayed, but I don't want to, before I weigh in with my view, let's be polite and ask our guests, what did you think overall? She did as well as could be expected for Kamala Harris, who is a useless politician and one of the most inauthentic people we've seen in public life this century.
00:04:02
Speaker
At the same time, I have a theory on Harrison. It only really became clear to me as I was watching this debate. She is a useless politician. I don't think she's particularly bright and she can't communicate to save herself. But I think, and I don't say this to try and be offensive, I think she's very good at manipulating men.
00:04:22
Speaker
She started her career by manipulating Willie Brown and that's how she got her start. She effectively manipulated Joe Biden into getting the vice presidency. And I think this was a masterclass in manipulating Trump and she just baited him the whole way along and Trump the most extraordinary case study because you can see what Harris is doing. You can see that she's just putting that bait out and Trump can't help himself. He just takes the bait, takes the bait, takes the bait. So I think she probably won the debate. I don't think it will make any difference in the greater scheme of things. And I think Trump missed an enormous opportunity to steamroll her and put things beyond doubt. But he didn't do that because of his shortcomings, which you everyone in the world is now aware of.
00:05:07
Speaker
Yeah, I never thought he'd do that one because once you've crushed Biden into oblivion, it's hard to repeat that. I never really saw why I he even took the debate because it's very hard to call him a coward after we
Examination of the Trump-Harris Debate
00:05:17
Speaker
survived an assassination and said, fight, fight, fight. So I say, why even and take it? Because it's going to be rigged against you, which we saw. And that was, we can get onto that. Go on. But how how extraordinary, how this only just occurred to me. A former president of the United States is shot in the head about a month ago, and that isn't even raised in the presidential debate.
00:05:37
Speaker
Well, imagine if, imagine if Barack Obama was shot in the head. It would be the only thing we'd hear about every day for the next 10 years. And it would have taken pride of place in that debate. Not a single question. And we will get to how the moderators handles it, but it is just. It already, but Obama would have my struggle, how I got shot in the ear. It'd have a Netflix series. It'd have a podcast on Spotify. I got shot in the ear and it was bad.
00:06:02
Speaker
And that would be like, that's all we hear about forever. But it's something to move on from it. He's like, I'll say this story once, because it's pretty bad. And he'd say it once at at the convention, and then he's kind of moved on. I know, and the fact that it's so rigged to not even bring it up. My struggle may potentially have some interesting historical undertones, which given the chat around Churchill and Hitler in the last couple of weeks would be topical, but ah I think that'd be a ballsy play.
00:06:29
Speaker
yeah my Yeah, maybe not that title. But um um yeah, that wasn't even raising the debate, which showed just how rigged it was. On that bait question, though, I've heard that argument. To me, that's just what Trump does. He attacks. I mean, they just showed a clip coming, which channel it was, but one of the pointless fake news channels. And they were saying that Kamala was joyful, which was not joyful at any point. She was smug. She was condescending. Then they showed a load of clips. It was Morning Joe. They showed a load of clips.
00:06:54
Speaker
of Trump allegedly sort of falling for the bait, but I just agreed with all the clips. I was like, well, he's smashing it. I mean, then again, I'm, you know, I'm not, I'm perhaps not the most objective because I'm a Trump cult member, but, um, he, he, he it did miss some opportunities. Definitely. He didn't do as well as he could have. Nothing really changes in my mind, it' except one thing that she proved that she can actually talk in whole sentences sometimes and isn't completely ridiculously incompetent. She's obviously fake.
00:07:23
Speaker
But my theory on that is, you may disagree, Will, my thing is that makes it more likely that they'll rig it because because there was this theory like, oh, that the regime, the deep state has accepted Trump and they'll just sort of let Trump win. Obama hates Harris. They're not going to bother this time. They put up a nonsense candidate and they'll just kind of let Trump have this one and come back in five years with Newsom or someone more plausible. But the fact that she was able to sort of not completely fall apart during the debate makes me think they they might put more into Harris and they might try and rig it or something because because she can be plausible enough as a candidate. And we know from Biden's complete disappearance that she won't be running in the country. Biden's not running the country. I mean, this should have come up as well. Who's running the country? And it just makes it more likely that they they'll go all in on it. And they're already going all in with the media hype. But to me, it says, okay,
00:08:12
Speaker
We've got one that can speak and not really think, but at least speak and not you know have dementia and not completely fall apart. So they might sort of more aggressively back it. What do you think to that? Yeah, I think that's fair. It's funny you say that who's running the country thing.
00:08:29
Speaker
He raises the question, like does the presidency really matter? It's this assumption that's been the case for 100 years that's the most important job in the world. There is obviously a president who is you know you know a corpse at the moment.
00:08:43
Speaker
But it just feels like there is now this blob of ah an administrative state, which just trickle trucks along and trucks along. I just wonder whether this whole saga with Biden has proved that the presidency is now a ceremonial role that actually doesn't have as much teeth as we perhaps thought it did anyway, which, you know, if you do have a Harris in the White House is potentially somewhat comforting. Yeah, I think it's a ceremonial role.
00:09:13
Speaker
when it's a Democrat because they're aligned with most of what I call the deep state, call it whatever you want. ah Whereas if Trump's in there, it is a genuine curveball. And the real curveball is Vance and how far he will bring in his own ideas. So if you look at this, there's very interesting articles on this. There's one in Variety. There's been a couple. Vance is somewhat aligned with the sort of new right. Some people call it the dissident right. Some people call it the neo-reactionary movement. And people like Curtis Jarvin. In fact, that he knows Jarvin.
00:09:42
Speaker
And I know people that know you, I've met him, but it sort of puts you and people like James or we've been on this podcast of mates with Vance, as I understand. So he's very close to sort of the more interesting end of the right, which is more, I don't want to say radical in a negative sense, but it is more radical. If they can get in and gut the deep state, which Vance wants to do, that does make the Trump presidency something very, very significant.
00:10:06
Speaker
if he just gets in and they're a bit nicer to him this time and Trump just sort of laps it up there and doesn't really do that much and governs as a liberal, then it's less significant. There is still significant because there'll be fewer wars, there'll be a better economy for the American people, but there's two versions of Trump. There's a one way he really kind of leans into let's let's make some serious changes and let's sack a load of people. And then there's a Trump that kind of just floats along like he did last time, you know, with some protectionist stuff, but basically a liberal. ah What do you think to to that take?
00:10:35
Speaker
Yeah, i think that's I think that's reasonable. I think the difference between Trump version two and Trump version one is that he understands that he needs to have the right people in the right positions to be able to get stuff done. And this is something which you've heard Steve Bannon talk about ad nauseam, that the big failure of the first Trump administration is that they basically went in with Trump or MAGA philosophy, but then they had old school, neocon, country club Republicans in those kind of key positions at a cabinet level, at an administrative level to try and enforce policies that they don't believe in. And I think a lot more work has gone on behind the scenes now to identify the right people to actually infilrate implement a Trump agenda. Advance
00:11:18
Speaker
That is the ultimate example of him basically pushing that particular mindset. So he could have picked ah Nikki Haley would have been unlikely, but could have picked someone of that ilk, the traditional old school Republican. And he went, no, I want someone who's MAGA. I want someone who is fully loyal and fully aligned, even if potentially I don't get the same electoral cachet out of them that I otherwise would have got from someone who hits a slightly different demographic.
Trump's Political Positioning and Administration
00:11:45
Speaker
But I think he knows that you need to have everyone on the same page in order to get stuff done. but My question to back to you would be on that vance because I again think he's a fascinating character.
00:11:55
Speaker
ah has Do you think this slight transformation in his worldview since, say, 2016 has been because he's seen the way that the wind is blowing in the Republican Party and he has moved to then say, I am going to not only be aligned with that, but I'm going to be the next Trump when he moves on. you think it is Or do you think it is a sincere ideological shift?
00:12:19
Speaker
I personally think the latter because I think it comes from talking to all these intellectuals and reading more and his position naturally shifting. It happens to a lot of us, we become increasingly red pill as we we read more and learn more. i think I think that's probably what's happened to him. I mean, the never you you could even make the opposite argument that and the never Trump position was a calculation and that this position is more authentic. But my guess is that he was never Trump at the time.
00:12:43
Speaker
then he's genuinely been red-pilled. It's happened to many, many people. So I don't see why not. I mean, as always ambition is always an aspect. He's obviously an ambitious person to to get where he he he is from his background. And that could be his comeuppance if he's too ambitious or if he gets in there and it becomes about, you know, now the realities of power are very, very different. That would be the challenge. It's not easy to come in and take down the American deep states. I mean, no one knows if it can be done. So if his personal ambition takes over, that would be that would be a concern. He had a very interesting phrase just on the previous point,
00:13:13
Speaker
Personnel is policy. I don't know if he said it or someone else but personnel is policy and that's that's the key point you are making You've got it. You can't just have these wet or these neo cons. They won't they won't do what you want them to you Yeah. That was a line that I think first came out of the Reagan administration. I think it was Reagan's chief of staff that came up with it and you were like, they didn't get the personnel as policy bit in the first Trump administration. I think they will in the second, actually gets there. Actual hardcore knowledge here from, well, it's proper, proper spectator. And by the way, you mentioned Steve Bannon. He's actually, as far as I'm currently in prison, I mean, how mental is that? Sometimes you forget that they, they, they use law fair against Steve Bannon, Peter Navarro, Rudy Giuliani, Donald Trump, of course.
00:13:54
Speaker
You go, oh, this is just a gangster administration that's just trying to put everyone in jail. I mean, that's absolutely mad when you think about it. I know it's for, in terms of court, whatever, but you can say it on the phone. The funny thing is that in that debate last night when Harris shamelessly said that Trump is going to use, weaponize the judiciary to put his political enemies in jail, and you can just see Trump go, come on, mate.
00:14:20
Speaker
it is Yeah, you can say that with a straight face is absolutely shameless. yeah This is the thing about the Democrats. Most of the things that they are accusing Trump of, they are very flexible about in order to make sure that Trump never gets power. you know If you look at this whole threat to democracy thing, which admittedly I think they found wasn't really working and so they've moved away from it a tad.
00:14:44
Speaker
But in the last six months, you look at the way that they treated ah RFK Junior and they basically paid or ah spent a shitload of money to make sure that he wasn't on the ballot in several US states. The way that the they treated that debate, for example, where they said, we are not going to have anyone in that room. We're not going to allow the masses, the great unwashed to come and watch Trump v. Harris. This is a a party that is very flexible about the the benefits of democracy when they want to be. I think it is interesting how yeah that has has played out.
00:15:21
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly. The threat to democracy thing was absurd given they did the Kamala coup. And it is very interesting, symbolically, the ah RFK shifted across to Trump. This elite American family, it does suggest this could be a genuine counter elite. If you believe elite theory, that is how any change happens. You never get a bottom up uprising, but one elite replaces another. You've now got Trump, which is an elite American family. RFK, you've got Silicon Valley backing Trump, some explicitly, some more covertly. You've got Musk backing him.
00:15:49
Speaker
Zuckerberg, I think, is going to vote. Trump is not quite admitting it. So it is potentially an actual new counter-release. But what about that moderator bias? Because ah RFK called that out as well. I've just seen a video where he called it out. And this was, this is probably going to be the big story. Certainly the right main talking point. I mean, the less main talking point is going to be some saying they're eating the dogs. They're eating cats and they're eating the pets. It's on TV. They're eating dogs at Springfield. um That'll be the big one for that. And there's a really outstanding world before we went on. There's a brilliant song. It's been put to us, a song from The Simpsons.
00:16:22
Speaker
We put the spring in the Springfield and stumps like they're eating the dogs. It's Springfield. It's so good. I check out my Twitter for that. But, um, but that's what ah the left's going to be saying, but the right's going to be saying, well, this is absurdly biased. They fact checked. I meant to watch a video just before I came on, but they fact checked Harris, uh, some repeatedly Harris once or never. I think ah they they said that, and there was some counter on one of those CNN type channels saying somebody lied 33 times and Harris only wants or something or, you know,
00:16:50
Speaker
All this absurdity, the moderators, the usual thing, he was against the moderators more than he was against Harris. She just had to stand there while they repeatedly did. He'd say something and go, well, actually that's not true and you're totally evil. Anyway, and it was just that kind of thing all night. Did that just completely undermine the debate? What do you think?
00:17:05
Speaker
Yeah, of of of course it did. As an aside, the eating the dogs line is my favorite, new favorite Trump moment. You know, it probably tops that one where he was talking about the lady that accused him of sexual assault. And he was saying, she's weird. Call to cat vagina.
00:17:24
Speaker
Something yeah something trump really comes into his own when he's talking about strange things happening to, to you know, household pets. Yeah, but it's also that I did that another moment was the black thing wasn't we used to the way approach it she was not black. And then I read, I read where she was not black and then she was black. I don't know. I don't care what she is, but she said, she yeah, it just that was so funny. If I, if I could just get, if someone out there has a compilation of Trump saying words that have that elongated eye in them, like China, vagina, or baiting, I would watch that on repeat every Sunday afternoon. Please let me know. Uh, but, but to, to your question about bias, uh,
00:18:05
Speaker
extraordinary. Like we were expecting it, but it is still shocking. And look what I don't understand as someone who, you know, enjoys the idea of journalism being something of being a mechanism to hold powerful people to account. I can't get into the headspace of not taking a particular joy in holding someone to account, even if you may believe or or align with their views. I don't see how you can't get a thrill in holding someone to account however much you you you agree with them. Now, there there is a couple of things that follow on from that. Number one,
00:18:39
Speaker
The whole concept of moderators fact checking in a debate like that is a nonsense. So there are a couple of instances there where they fact check Trump and the fact check was just wrong in the case of the ah the statement about abortion, where the former governor of West Virginia has come out and inferred that you are allowed to, if not assassinate someone, a baby, you're allowed to not provide life prevent saving care if that is the choice of the parent.
00:19:08
Speaker
um And to then just fact check that out of hand represents an opinion. I always remember that, because it was that old Alex Jones clip. They keep them comfortable. It was at Ralph's, something in Virginia. They keep them comfortable. It was like the baby would be born and kept alive and then killed after. It was really insane stuff. Can these people hear themselves? But then you also, for example, say, and it was the point where Trump was rationalizing his, I didn't actually lose the election comments. And he said I was being sarcastic.
00:19:39
Speaker
Now look, I think that's probably debatable, but then to hear this pious, wanky, self-serving response from the moderator, David Muir, say, I didn't detect any sarcasm in your voice.
00:19:52
Speaker
look What the fuck is that? Why is that a point? Why is that a point? Why does that matter, David? you know That's your opinion. That isn't a fact check. And it was the way in which so many of these fact checks to Trump were delivered with this, I shouldn't be in the room with this person, this smug condescension that just drips out of every word that these people say. And it says a lot about the way that they perceive Trump. And I think it says a lot about the way that they perceive people that support Trump.
00:20:20
Speaker
And the fact that there was not a single time they were willing to fact check Harris when it could have been done with the blood bar thing, when it could have been done with the very fine people thing, take your pick, an extraordinary, extraordinary turn of events. Yeah. I mean, I don't think Trump meant it when he said lost by a whisk. I think he's saying, yeah look how close they made it with the steel. He's not going to go back on four years of repeatedly saying they stole it to suddenly say they're not. It's just a slip in the way he said it. So, but that's been hammered on fairly. I mean,
00:20:51
Speaker
You know, most people are criticizing Trump for saying that it was rigged. Now they're criticizing him for suddenly changing his mind, but he hasn't changed his mind. But yeah, she actually wheeled out the very fine people hoax. That was shocking as well. That Trump said there were fine people on both sides of Charlottesville. It's been debunked multiple, multiple times. You just have to watch the video
Media Bias and Misinformation
00:21:08
Speaker
and watch his whole sentence. We completely, repeatedly condemns the neo-Nazis and says,
00:21:13
Speaker
but then there were just people defending the Robert E. Lee statue. But as still Biden was still going with it when he was alive. Now Kamala's still going with it. I just like, really the hoax line still, the fine people.
00:21:24
Speaker
it wouldn't irritate me as much if it wasn't coming from the same people who preach integrity and honesty in politics. And so I think that's what really bugs me is that they're basically trying to say, well, look we're the ones who can tell you the truth. Biden particularly did this. And yet they lied just as much as Trump does, but there just isn't the same level of accountability on the things that they say. It's ah it's it's just, it is one of the many ways that Trump has warped the political discourse and the way that we talk about politics. It is absolutely insane. I saw a stat that ABC campaign coverage has been 100% positive for Harris, 93% negative for Trump. I mean, why was he even doing it on ABC? I mean, I guess Trump, he's a fighter. He'll do anything. And he was pure Trump. I mean, some of the more further right people like Nick Fuentes said that he loved this Trump. He's been dissing Trump loads recently.
00:22:18
Speaker
But he said like, oh, this comes back and he liked it. Whereas the sort of more ah moderate conservatives, their take is that he lost it. Scott Adams's take was that it was a tie because Harris had to do so little. So just her sort of showing up and not being awful.
00:22:34
Speaker
was a is a win he said it's a tie which is a win for them i can i can understand that view um ah not i no i don't think he was being aggressive though i think he was being defensive i think there was time basically every time he had that a particular uh tone It was after it was responding to something that she said it was following her narrative and then trying to basically argue back to me it came across as defensive. I think he had an opportunity in this debate to frame who Kamala Harris is because at the moment I think the stats say something like 30 percent of Americans don't really know who she is or what she stands for.
00:23:12
Speaker
And the fact of the matter is there is a plethora of old wacky views that she hasn't disavowed that you can say, right, this is someone who is a hard left San Francisco liberal. Uh, and she's going to to take the country in a very radical direction. I saw one the other day from 2019. where she was supporting gender affirming care for illegal migrants in custody. It's like just basically now just meshing together all of the liberal you know policies into the most bizarre weird thing you can possibly imagine. It's like, this is the person that we're dealing with, but I don't think, because there is that vacuum, he has the opportunity to to do that. He also has the opportunity to say to every single time she puts forward a substantive proposal,
00:23:58
Speaker
Okay. Why haven't you done it? Okay. Why haven't you done it? And he he didn't do that as much as he could because, and again, you know, I, I would vote for Trump over Harris. I think he would be the better alternative for the U S but you know, we all know now that, that some of his greatest strengths are also his greatest flaws in that he just cannot help himself at times. And, and, and I think that was, that was obvious at moments in the debate.
00:24:21
Speaker
Yeah, he started and ended with this thing that she's already in. Why has she not been doing it? But yeah, he could have done that more. He could have, to me, approached it more like he was already the winner. He he approached it, as you say, a bit combative and a bit like he is the underdog. Because that's his that's how he's that's sort of what he's used to, the 2016 Trump. No one's expecting me to win this. And I'm an absurd out outlier.
00:24:42
Speaker
I'm kind of ah the total underdog. and I'm just going to smash all these people. And that's what he's so good at. But he did it look in 2020. He did that too much with Biden. And then he was too aggressive. And he did it here. What he should have done here, because he is kind of in my mind ahead um and in many people's minds, he is ahead. And Harris is this last minute dodgy job candidate. He could have gone. He could have just been totally relaxed. Like she's ridiculous. I'm really the president. I got shot and survived.
00:25:08
Speaker
The nation loves me. No one knows who she is. She's an ridiculous Cooper character. Yeah. He could have gone like that, but he, when he went too aggressive, it's like, Oh, why? Yes. Exactly. Why are you defensive? yeah That was, that was a flaw. But that's, yeah as you say, that's also just what he's like. So she's, her campaign has immediately come out and said, we want a second debate. Do you think you'll agree to it?
00:25:27
Speaker
Yeah. Well, he's immediately said, well, that's what you do when you lose. You demand the rematch, which is what you do, in boina which is a brilliant framing. That is a great frame of like they lost. They wanted to pay. We might, we might not do it. That's what you do when you lose. So I haven't seen him speak on it, but I assume that's how it went. seen it that would have that's that right But yeah, and that is a great way of framing that they seem to, they seem to want it because they think they did well, but actually it is a strange one. Why do they want it? And they want to sort of gain more ground because they think they've done well.
00:25:57
Speaker
And Trump's doesn't want to do it because he's saying he's well, maybe I don't know. Does he actually think he didn't do that? Well, and therefore he doesn't want it. It is very clever framing though. That's what the loser always does. Do you think they just, they just, I think he will do it. And that's almost Trump's problem as well. I don't, I don't, I don't really think he should have done the first one. I mean, I could be wrong about that, but why give Harris, like you say, no one knows who she is. Why even give her the air time?
00:26:21
Speaker
When you've already crushed Biden, why not just say, I don't even recognize this candidate? Or would they just say that's weak and and would that not work? I think it's just ego. You know, Trump, I think has complete confidence in his own ability. I don't think actually any grand strategy entered into the equation. And I don't think it will enter into the equation this time. I think he will actually accept another debate because he will again have full confidence that he can beat it. Yeah. I mean, Theresa May tried it against Jeremy Corbyn, didn't work well then, but she is bad at speaking. I mean,
00:26:50
Speaker
Trump, yeah. may I mean, he the fact that she didn't take the Fox debate, why didn't he just insist that it's on Fox? I feel like he's in a stronger position where he can just do that. Why take it on NBC? Like you say, it's probably his, just his overconfidence, but he's against the moderators and against Harris. I mean, people said he was, well, he should have addressed the moderators more and just said, why am I debating you? You're rigging this, you know, in real time done that. Of course, he's just said and done when the world's watching you. You know, I've done, I do a lot of live TV.
00:27:18
Speaker
Sometimes it's easier said than that. People say, why didn't you mention this, Nick? I'm like, well, maybe because I had 20 stories to read last minute and it's live TV. Do you know what I mean? And I'm a comedian by background. That could be some of the reasons. Donald Trump is effectively a comedian as well. Probably the best in the world. He's untouchable. Well, two last questions then. The earpiece thing.
00:27:41
Speaker
Did you see the earpiece so conspiracy? I don't believe in the earpiece conspiracy that she was getting fed the answers. It it doesn't really make sense. That was one conspiracy. But do you think she had the questions in advance? No, I don't. But I think all of the questions were pretty easy to be able to decipher. Like, this is another extraordinary thing. The question structure went as followed. Donald Trump would be asked, Donald Trump, why are you such a piece of shit? And then he would defend himself.
00:28:08
Speaker
And then Kamala Harris would be asked, why do you think that Donald Trump is such a piece of shit? And then she would answer. And that would be exactly how the kind of conversation then flowed. yeah It was. So I don't think, I don't think she was aware of the questions, but I think she knew she would get a free ride. so And you could just see as well. And she was very well prepared. Why are you so joyful? a Great question. I'll answer that for about five minutes, making no sense.
00:28:33
Speaker
But this is this thing. And so I think she knew what was coming ah because I think it was easy enough to to predict. And then you could just see her mentally picking out a cue card that she'd written down and then rehearsed 100 times and then just rehearsing it. This is the other thing I find just quite depressing. And, you know, you see the same thing with listening to bloody Keir Starmer is that I want my politicians to be great communicators. I want them to be charismatic. I want them to be leaders who you can put in front of a room and they own and have that presence. Say what you want about the Bill Clintons or the Obama's.
00:29:10
Speaker
Reagan before him, but they all had a presence. And you said that is a leader. And you see Starmer or you see Kamala Harris and you go, how have you got to these positions when you communicate as if you're borderline autistic? It's just extraordinary.
Debate Over Winston Churchill's Legacy
00:29:26
Speaker
And I don't really understand how modern politics now enables these people to get to the top when they are so thoroughly uncharismatic. Well, I've got a forthcoming guest podcast where we talk about whether Starmer has borderline personality disorder and whether his childhood influenced him because he His mum was ill and he had to like be the parent and he's not allowed to have any thoughts or feelings. You presumably saw that piece where he's he's not an extrovert or introvert. he hits the His head hits a pillow and he goes to sleep, but he doesn't dream. No favourite novel. It's just like a non-person. Yeah, the only thing worse than an authoritarian is a boring authoritarian. Most authoritarians are actually kind of morbidly fascinated, which makes Starmer uniquely awful. Get a nice jacket, Starmer. Do it some good speeches. Come come on, mate. Get Hugo Boss on, boy. That's right.
00:30:10
Speaker
Well, before we get to Starm, actually, oh, well, let me just ask one more question. They're eating the dogs. Are they actually, are they literally eating the dogs? Because there's this is a big thing. there's yeah The story was that there's Haitians eating cats and ducks in spring. I don't want to focus on the dogs because the main memes were about cats and ducks. There's all these AI memes of Trump rescuing cats and ducks from people in in Springfield, Ohio. ah So the idea was that they're eating that. I saw one piece that said that was like this woman who was who has stole a cat to eat and the conservatives are going, oh, it's immigrants. And it's like, actually, she was there. She's been in the country for six years. I'm like, oh, well, you've totally owned us there. She's a classic Welshman. um But like hu what do you think? Were they really eating ducks and cats in Springfield?
00:30:57
Speaker
yeah So I recommend everyone goes and listens to JD Vance's response to a journalist who put this question in a far more, you know, you're an idiot type manner to him. He said, look, there is a police phone call record for recording of a police phone call from someone who said that they were watching a, you know, someone of a particular appearance, you know, catching geese, you know, in the park in in Ohio.
00:31:21
Speaker
That would be worth or that would be you know sufficient for evidence in in a criminal proceedings. That is something you can't just discount. And just because then the county then comes out and says, oh, will we disagree with this?
00:31:33
Speaker
That isn't a black and dry issue. Now, this is the thing. Why hasn't the media, as opposed to just blindly accepting what the county officials have told them, actually gone there, done their own research and then come to a conclusion? And I think, you know, we all know the answer to that. It is because that they are now apparatchiks for the democratic party. So look, I don't know, but like it's not just a crazy thing that's come out of nowhere. There is at least cause to investigate this further. But you can bet your bottom dollar. No one is going to investigate this further, at least in the mainstream media, because, you know, it it goes to one of the great weaknesses of the Harris campaign, which is the disastrous border policy. Yeah. And I almost don't mind if it's literally true, because it's directionally true. They are letting in all kinds of people. They do love illegals. They are their main
00:32:17
Speaker
future voter base. And you know, it's so funny to have these AI memes of Trump rescuing ducks that I just and just don't i don't even need to need to get the facts really. But yeah, I mean, it's yeah, we've seen that kind of thing. We've all seen the videos as Trump said, it's on TV. We've all seen the videos of similar things.
00:32:35
Speaker
even in this country we've seen this shocking scenes but yeah it's a funny one um there was a great tweet i saw saw just before coming on it said we are currently hearing that the eating dogs and cats story is a conspiracy which means in two weeks we will be hearing that eating dogs and cats is no bad thing. And in four weeks, we will be hearing you are a white supremacist if you think that eating dogs and cats is a bad thing. yeah That stage of the ah of the identity politics woke ah story cycle. Yeah, I did see one article that was very similar to that. I can't remember the details now. But yeah, we will be getting that. Why you why it's racist to not like to eat to not eat raw ducks on the street. Yeah. Yeah. Your your white supremacy is showing some people don't have food.
00:33:19
Speaker
Go on. Yeah, that came out with the Haitian cannibal stuff, I think about six to 12 months ago, where there were some articles by the end saying, well, you know, cultural relativism, we need to look at the idea of cannibalism in its societal context. It's not necessarily as bad as people in the West think it is. So, you know, if they can do it for cannibalism, I'm sure as well do it for cats and dogs. What a world. And that, I mean,
00:33:43
Speaker
I want to talk about that later with Starmer, how just the the madness of the things we're accepting these days. um But you wanted to talk about his chocolate thing. And I suggested as well, but then I was like, I'm not sure I want to go into it that much. But this is another American story, which is a Tucker Carlson show with this guy, Cooper, who's his whose Twitter account is Marta made. It's a very good Twitter account, actually. But he he was in trouble. Darryl Cooper, that's his name, isn't he? He was in trouble because he went on and he sort of gave the case against Churchill and the internet exploded.
00:34:13
Speaker
And the two basic takes are that in this sort of, yeah obviously the Churchill take that we've all grown up with, I mean, my grandfather's both fought in World War II, and we grew up with the idea that Churchill is a great hero, obviously defeated the Nazis, saved Jewish people, except, well, didn't save Jewish people because it was too late, but he's a hero to the Jewish people in many ways. The narrative we all know, but there is a counter narrative on the left and on some of the right that Churchill isn't so great. The left say he's not so great because of racism and famines and things like this and and the empire in general. the The rights say he's not so great because he gave away the empire. He he he got into the war unnecessarily. Hitler didn't have ah much of a beef with
00:34:56
Speaker
Britain, he his beef was with other countries and blah, blah. And these are, and and and those, there are respectable historians on both sides, but the, you may disagree with me, but I've seen it as a bit of a hysterical response from some who just condemn it outright. But I don't seem to have that G. I mean, one thing is I'm ah i'm a comedian by a background, so part of me just wanted to tweet, guys, why can't we just admit Hitler and Churchill, both great guys, you know,
00:35:21
Speaker
compelling sneakers, war heroes, you know, both had a can-do attitude. I just have to stop myself so that's posting like ridiculous stuff like that. But also, I don't have that same part, I don't have the offense mechanism. So I just look at it and go, well, let's look at it, you know, and historians have made the case for both. Can we just look at it? But we can't look at it without obviously a lot of emotion, which is understandable. But what is your take on that? So I agree with you in part, and I have to consider my own bias. I've got, you know,
00:35:49
Speaker
Churchill as my phone background, you know, I'm that sort of nerdy tragic loser. So, so, you know, that is, that is the bias I come in with. You look normal Will, but then we see the phone and it's, it's all, don't show chicks that on dates. Cause that's where I'll fall apart. Oh, that's, that's where I'm going. Well, one of the several areas I'm going wrong. Look, my, my issue with this and I will leave the substance of what he's saying to smarter minds than mine. I think it is a nonsense and you've actually had now historians from Victor Davis Hanson to Neil Ferguson to Andrew Roberts come out and say it's a nonsense read all that stuff if you want to actually look at substance in terms of the response to all this stuff
00:36:26
Speaker
I feel, you know on my podcast and in my day-to-day, I spend so much time trying to defend Western civilization, trying to defend the great parts about our history in Britain, in Australia, in the West, ah from the left, who are determined to rip down in this sort of postmodernist agenda everything that we hold dear as as a Western civilization.
00:36:51
Speaker
And I think it saddens me now that there is that same instinct on parts of the right because they see that some things that are happening today which are troubling, like you know the rise of a liberal left elite that now seeks to control the institutions, seeks to limit what we say, they basically superimpose what is happening today on our history when it doesn't necessarily hold true in that context.
00:37:15
Speaker
I think this is very sad that you now see parts of the right which basically seek to tear down the undoubtedly great things that something like the United Kingdom, for example, has done. And I know you don't like this term, but I see this as as a woke right, and I see it actually as as very much sharing similarities with the woke left in terms of of a, identity, but instead of identity being around, say, a a but ethnic group,
00:37:43
Speaker
being a Tucker Carlson fan is now your identity. And if someone attacks that particular aspect of your personality or traps you for being a MAGA supporter, then then you have the same response as someone who is ah is a woke left person.
00:37:56
Speaker
i And then then similarly, the this whole mentality to try and basically almost start afresh and question what the great things before us. I think there are similarities, but I know you disagree with that. Go on.
00:38:09
Speaker
well Yeah, I need to say because I think these people haven't done the work and it's just a lazy term and I've written an article by which I should have, if I knew we were going to talk about this, I would have um read up on to read my own article because I had my arguments together then. One of my arguments was that the things like cancel culture or just aggressively attacking your opponent and using all means necessary are not woke because we've seen that during Brexit. We've seen that many times. So that I sort of dismissed that and I tried to get to the bottom of what it is that's woke and the term was being applied to Tucker Carlson when he talked about creationism on Joe Rogan.
'Woke Right-Wing' Concept in Politics
00:38:44
Speaker
Then it was being ah applied to sort of very ah antithetical theories. So
00:38:49
Speaker
So I couldn't grasp what it is that was woke about this because wokeness is not just the means of attack or the tribalism, it's the specific ideology. So it's things like critical race theory and you know a belief in DEI and white fragility and you know decolonization and all these things. So um I've been struggling to get what's woke about it. What I think what i suspect is that it's actually just anti-woke liberals who are not used to being attacked from the right and don't have their arguments together and don't understand the arguments on the right, because many of the arguments on the right go just back to things like paleoconservatism. So I haven't read this book, but there was Churchill Hitler and the Unnecessary War by Pat Buchanan. I assume this is a controversial book and he's a controversial guy. He was a, he was a paleocon. So
00:39:39
Speaker
To me, some of these people don't know, they just don't know the nuances of the right, and so they're not used to attacking. Of course, I'm sure there are critiques they could deliver, but just dismissing it as woke right, to me, it's a smacks of, I'm being attacked now, I'm not used to being attacked from this side, and I don't really understand why, so I'm not gonna call them woke or Nazis, basically.
00:39:57
Speaker
i look i I think there may certainly be an element of that. I think the other interesting parallel for me is almost like the innate, the system is innately ah flawed and therefore we need to in some respects tear down the system or the structures that we hold dear. Now in this instance it's tearing down kind of the historical structures of how we think about history. You know for the woke left it would be tearing down kind of the inherently racist or sexist or patriarchal institutions but there's this instinct now that says just because you have a contrarian position it must now therefore be the right position
00:40:38
Speaker
because so many conspiracy conspiracy theories have been proven to be correct, because the mainstream media, because so many of the other institutions have proven to be derelict in their duties over the last 10 to 15 years. Therefore, every position which is fringe must be held with some degree of, of um it must be somehow acceptable, if not, it must be the right position. And look, the fact of the matter is, there are still some mainstream positions which are the right positions, right?
00:41:05
Speaker
I think, but now I just think there is a bit of a lack of nuance which says, oh well, if the mainstream are calling this a conspiracy theory, therefore it must be the right theory because we are in opposition to that group. That's kind of another issue that I have with this. Yeah, I can understand that. That's not particularly useful.
00:41:26
Speaker
But some people just think we would we would do better to deconstruct it. I mean, Nima Parvin has been on this show. his His next book is going to be called The Boomer Truth Regime. And one of the pillars of Boomer Truth, perhaps the core pillar, is is is Churchill and the idea that he's this hero. Certainly what I grew up with, and i'm ah as a patriot, I'm not someone who revels in destroying Churchill or destroying that because I do understand that you know the woke people attacking the cenotaph and attacking the Churchill statue, there is something gross about that. Well, it is disgusting. And I've said those people should face harsh punishments, because that's those are the symbols of our country. And if you can just deface our statues, then we we're not defending our culture. And I don't believe that it's covered under free expression, or if it is, then and then i I don't care about free expression as much as I care about upholding our values. So I could actually have a position where I would say,
00:42:12
Speaker
If our current values are that we do value Churchill and you're disrespecting us by destroying his statue, you should be deported or go to prison. I could simultaneously say, though I'm open to an inquiry about Churchill and whether he was as good as we think, I can be open to both because you know it's because I'm open to questioning our heroes.
00:42:31
Speaker
rather than defacing statues. But but intellectual inquiry is different. Now, some people say, no, this has all been done. Historians have established this already, and it's only cranks that argue against it. And i can I can understand that as well, but other people just disagree with that view. So what I just don't like is the hysteria, the attempt to shut this side down and call it woke. I don't think it's woke. I think it's just part of the right that has a critique of Churchill and always has. And and when you're Aggressively policing. I mean, why was constant it for example Darryl Cooper turned down a debate with was it Andrew Roberts with it was and he said look I can't Match this guy because he's he's really knows this topic and I'm just I was just asking questions I'm still working on this topic and I'd you know It was a strange thing in a way because it would have been good to them to debate him and it was in a way You could you could see it either way you could see it as weakness or you could see it as a kind of humility that he says look I'm not a historian and in in the league of this guy. So there's no point me
00:43:27
Speaker
actually debating him. But constantly was sort of bragging about it going like, oh, this is a, this is a, this is pathetic. Look at this sort of, that's strange to me because that's like, you want to, you're not really, I mean, his podcast is all about open questions and honest conversations as far as I'm aware. So it's like, why are you sort of bragging so aggressively that I turned down the debate, what a pussy. To me, it's like, that that doesn't, it's not particularly objective.
00:43:54
Speaker
So there is a ah need for these people to fairly emotionally and aggressively protect their turf and their patch of the culture war. I'm just not really like that. I'm just sort of more like, well, i i'm mean I'm open to hearing it sort of thing. Maybe, I don't know, maybe that makes me a big old Nazi, but that's just how I am. Look, I think the framing there of I'm just asking questions is misleading because he wasn't just asking questions. He was putting forward positions. He said that Churchill was a psychopath. He said that Churchill was the real bad guy in World War II.
00:44:27
Speaker
there is clear insinuations of an anti-Jewish agenda behind a lot of what he was saying. So I think there's that great South Park episode where Cartman basically starts being the student news reader and he's, you know, basically saying, um getting stuck into Wendy Testerberger and says, you know, Wendy Testerberger is a gigantic whore with, you know, and just goes on this awful rant for 20 seconds. And then he goes,
00:44:56
Speaker
Or is she? I'm just asking questions. And I kind of feel like that's what this guy's doing. So I'm putting forward all of these really extreme positions, but then he goes, I'm just over here to to question the mainstream narrative. Well, you're yeah not, you're actually putting forward a completely different narrative in the guise of asking questions. Fair enough. I mean, for some reason I didn't think we were going to do this topic because I thought you wouldn't want to talk about it, even though it was on my long list. So actually I should confess, I never fully listened to the whole Cooper thing. I fell asleep during it.
00:45:21
Speaker
because the early part is not about this, and I actually fell asleep listening to the the later part, so I never got exactly what he was saying. There is a funny... um aspect of Tucker Carlson, that even though I really like him, that he, he just agrees with whatever is put in front of him. We were like, I think that's right. I mean, that must be, that's the, I can't believe I haven't heard that before, but I absolutely agree with you. And then like next episode, it's like agree with something else. I can be like that as well. I mean, I joked, I had a Marxist on here. So maybe I'm, maybe I'm a Marxist now and someone like was attacking me in the comments, like this guy's like an idiot, but it's like, I'm just, it was being agreeable to my guests. I'm not going to be a Marxist, but, but I am open to things and I'm not an intellectual. I'm not an intellectual. I'm a talk show host. That's one thing Tucker always does. So I'm open to everything.
00:45:59
Speaker
But he is quite funny, Tucker, the way he's he's got a childlike quality where he'll just be like, that's absolutely right. And I think, it's something to say, something really extreme. but That's a genocide. and I mean, there's nothing else you can't call anything anything else. is that And he just, he said he just come to that position five seconds ago. But now he's like, yeah we have to we have to kill everyone. Really, Tucker? The footage of him admiring the shopping carts in Moscow is some of the greatest kind of footage. you say We don't have shopping carts like this in America. This is extraordinary. Yeah.
00:46:26
Speaker
Yeah. So that is a comic aspect though. It is part of the charm of Tucker, which is he is he emits, he's emotional, he's very sincere, and he feels things strongly. Yeah, he's not always perfect. But then, you know, he had this debate with Seth Dillon from the Babylon being saying, you platformed him and talks like Jimmy, I spoke to him. I don't certainly don't think there's anything wrong with him having someone like Cooper on and speaking to. No, I don't as long as we can live baby very but unafraid to call out the bullshit, then no, I agree. I don't think there's anything wrong with having him on. I think, but with the caveat, Tucker Carlson can speak to whoever he wants to in the world pretty much. So I just think he could find, you know, more substantive people. But again, he's now got the most popular podcast in the world. So who am I to say that? Well, a portion of my audience will disagree with you and maybe I'll get their take but when I have Nima on again, but but but yeah, but I'm not well versed in the subject enough. So I think we've we've covered both sides of it.
00:47:22
Speaker
um So I wanted to go on to a couple of other topics. How long we done? Let's have a quick check. Yeah, we can do a couple more. um What about Starmer and this ah early release of prisoners? As we record, we've got people on the streets popping champagne bottles outside of prisons because the prisoners have been released early. I mean, optically alone, that is absolutely horrendous. um And he's especially when you know that he's putting in political prisoners instead, as some people call them, people who have tweeted things,
00:47:53
Speaker
one does think of anarcho tyranny, you know, I call it Operation Arkham Asylum, because it's just releasing all the crazy prisoners. It's like something the Joker or Bane would do. It must release to your press. And it's like, meanwhile, you're in there for a tweet and it looks obscene. And another thing, there was a Daily Mail piece. Starmer was set to set free domestic abusers on the Labour government. Oh, you've got you've got that as well.
00:48:18
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's, I mean, he's releasing people who strangled their partners and, and brutal, you know, domestic abusers. ah So among the 1700 set to walk free or a man who told his partner he was enjoying attacking her, and another who strangled his partner and broke her jaw. And they're, they're serving, you know, small amounts of their sentencing, he just go, and Lawson Natty was released, who was the guy that bought the machete that killed a 14 year old in Newcastle, another guy with him who actually did the killing got nine years because Natty got under four years, he gets out early, he gets out in six months. I mean, care to comment? I do. I think you're right, the Daily Mail nailed this with their first line on the front page where they said, here's Starmart, mugged pensioners and freed muggers yesterday on a day of shame for labour. And you're right, like there was images of
00:49:12
Speaker
prisoners coming out of jail being sprayed with champagne as they were simultaneously hearing of, you know, poor old pensioners, you know, going cold this winter. The optics are awful. And I think you put this in the broader context of the riots where you saw people being jailed for years for effectively saying nasty words towards police officers. Some of those rioters were jailed for multi-year prison sentences without any sort of physical assault or any sort of physical violence. They They were jailed for effectively what they said to police officers and being in that particular position at that particular time. And this goes to the point that this speaks to choice. And I've heard this from a few people now that said, you know, Starmer saying, well, we had no choice because the prisoners were overcrowded. Prisons are overcrowded. We have no choice to but to remove the winter fuel allowance because the ah economic position is so dire.
00:50:08
Speaker
And that's a nonsense because politics is about trade-offs. It is a trade-off to put someone who said nasty words in prison and take someone out of prison who has assisted in the murder of a four-year-old girl. It is a choice to take money away from old pensioners and then put money into climate aid in foreign countries.
00:50:27
Speaker
So this doesn't speak to the way that Labor are framing this around, we are in and ah no win position is wrong. They're just making their priorities really clear. And I think what that tells us, and this is can be comfort to conservatives listening to this, is becoming very clear very quickly that this Labor Party are not good at the whole politics caper.
UK Political Party Dynamics and Leadership
00:50:47
Speaker
In fact, they're incredibly bad at it. and And I think I've heard you say this in the previous current thing.
00:50:54
Speaker
I initially was skeptical of them being a one-term government. I think it is now very possible if we can get someone on that conservative side who can bring together what is a fractured coalition at the moment between the old school you know social conservatives that are being hovered up by reform and the you know Tory Shire liberal conservatives. If someone can bring that group back together, and it's a huge if,
00:51:19
Speaker
they can make this a one-term government. They absolutely can. And I think they need to, because I think the next four years look incredibly, incredibly concerning. Yeah, I see Labour just completely falling apart. I think it's it's got the unpopularity looming over the kind of the 70s, not burying the dead. I mean, to me, releasing prisoners should be up there with not burying the dead. it It apparently isn't quite there yet in people's minds, but the winter fuel, incredibly unpopular. I can see Farage getting in 2029. I've always said he could. The question is, how can that happen?
00:51:48
Speaker
or will it be Faraj or will it be someone in the in the Tories? As we record, Mel Stride has dropped out, which no one at all cares about. Just after I but recorded last week, Priti Patel was knocked out. So you've got Kemi and Clevely and Tugenhatt and Gemmic and it's, will they try and get rid of Kemi by Scoldugry? I was at a party actually with Kemi. I can probably reveal on Sunday, didn't speak to her. And I was just trying to think, what have I tweeted? and ah we know well You know, you you meet people, you're thinking, what have I tweeted?
00:52:17
Speaker
I told all the very pro-chemie people at the party that I was team generic, which is why I'm not good at networking or getting anywhere. I just can't help myself, just a total idiot. But um I am more team generic than chemie. Obviously, I'm team Farage, mainly. Though I still think reformer too soft, but Tice has been pretty base lately. But, you know, maybe a quick word on that is as this a sort of a digression well before we get back to Starmer.
00:52:44
Speaker
Do you think Jamiq or Kemi or not, this can take out Starmer? I think Kemi can. I tweeted the other day, I think that Kemi is not the best option. I think she is the only option. ah The way in her policy speech the other day where she's the only person who's had the balls, ironically, to call out the rise of Islamic sectarianism when no one else will touch it. She's the only one to touch, to hit the culture wars, not in a manufactured you know, kind of throwing red meat to the base kind of way. But I think in a very sincere way, which recognizes this country does have serious cultural issues that it needs to grapple with. ah And the fact that I think she has that old school kind of, you know,
00:53:29
Speaker
um ah some ah kind of conservative position, which the Tories need to rediscover. But this this is this is the fundamental point in that the leaders are almost secondary to the Conservative Party working out what it is that they want to be. ah They are at an existential moment for the party.
00:53:53
Speaker
I don't think if you ask me, the conservative members that they could have said what they stood for by the end of the last term in government. ah So it's almost, well, do they want to be that old school party of Thatcher? Do they want to be the social conservatives? Do they think they can pull together a coalition of liberals, small l kind of old school libertarian liberals and social conservatives, or has that day and age come and gone? But until we can answer that,
00:54:20
Speaker
I think the the figurehead for that movement is almost almost secondary. And I really hope that we can get to that point, but I'm um i'm not sure we're there at the moment. I know. what do What do you think? Yeah, I think that's a good analysis. The figurehead is really Farage as a problem. I mean, Farage is the charismatic figurehead of this movement, but he is in the wrong party. So and then the vote will be split and we're in danger of this horrific Labour government carrying on. Basically, it needs to be Farage leaving the Tories, but it's hard to see how exactly how that happens. All the Tories have to be destroyed because, yeah, they are in a complete mess.
00:54:50
Speaker
And to me, Jemric's the only one who's credible on immigration. He's got a sort of well-thought-out immigration plan, whereas Khemia, I'm not convinced, is that strong on on immigration. I know she's good on the woke issues, and you're saying she was good on Islam, but yeah, I just, and I and i also think she defaults to identity politics. as ah That's another sort of conversation I've had, but- But can i can i um can I ask, what do you make of Clevverley? Because I actually don't really know a huge amount about him. I listened to an interview with him the other day, and he's very polished. What's what's your take on him?
00:55:18
Speaker
Well yeah, I think I said last week he just, I watched his whole speech and to me it was actually the best speech in terms of ease of delivery and just being a normal person speaking well. That's what he's good at. A very good presenter. yeah Yeah, that's what he's good at. But he kept talking about capitalism and he's basically, it was a Thatcherite pitch.
00:55:34
Speaker
So to me, it it didn't, it didn't get close to addressing the struggles of 2024, which are completely different, which are about immigration number one and two and three, really. But you know, then obviously high tax and so on, which he did get onto. But to talk about capitalism, it just sounded a bit weird to me. Of course, of course, yeah, we should deregulate. We do have too much regulation, but it was just a strange kind of old school Thatcherite pitch that I don't think at all that he has the what is required or the the will or interest in in solving things like immigration which have to really the problem is with immigration the solutions are too radical for the overtime window of any of our parties at the moment though in Europe there's hints of people grasping it but we're sort of behind on that. Cummings would say we're ahead because of Brexit but we seem to be our main party seem to be too wet to really tackle it.
00:56:24
Speaker
Yeah, well, the the problem is the Overton window in the general public is dramatically different to the Overton window amongst the political class. And unfortunately, until the two Overton windows come back together, I think you're going to find that the the Conservative Party are going to find it very hard to get back into government. That has to be the first job of a new conservative leader is to bring the conservative Overton window in line with the Overton window of the conservative base and start talking about the things that they are talking about and start caring about the things that they care about, as opposed to the last 20 years, which have been you know kind of Westminster issues and soft, ill, wet liberalism, as opposed to you know the the concerns of of middle England.
00:57:09
Speaker
Yeah. And that's why they got booted out so brutally. and And even in elite theory, you'll see that there has to be a tacit consent from the people. And both parties are very much part of this, and they're called the unit party. They're very much part of this elite that's gone completely out of touch with the people. So the question is, who's going to come in and seize that ground where they actually sound like they're speaking for the people again? For ours seems to be the the main one actually doing that. And it's just, I don't know, it's a question of how that happens. Until it does happen, there'll just be more chaos. This Labour government will be worse and worse.
00:57:38
Speaker
And isn't it interesting getting back to winter fuel? I sound like Faraja. Isn't it funny? Isn't it funny getting back to winter fuel that, um, it's a kind of half impression that, um, some people are starting to realize what they've done and they may just be doing it because they don't want to look cruel now, but Jonathan Pye and Carol Vorderman are both bricking it about winter fuel. And Vorderman was saying Starmer should apologize. So all these people that have very publicly pushed labor now are realizing how awful they are.
00:58:06
Speaker
And maybe they don't care personally about about and pensioners. I don't know if they do or not. I can't look into their souls. But they certainly have been smart enough to realize, oh, we look bad now because we've pushed this garbage.
Critique of UK's Winter Fuel Policy
00:58:17
Speaker
Do you think winter fuel could be catastrophic for labor? I've even heard heard it called their poll tax.
00:58:22
Speaker
Yeah, well, I just don't understand why they would waste so much political capital for I think about a billion dollars in savings, you know, a relatively minuscule amount. And this is the other thing which I think is interesting about our current moment, our current thing, if you want me to, ah to, you know, ah to to force that into the conversation.
00:58:43
Speaker
And that is that the left's brains have been fried by climate change and fried by the woke identity stuff, that they've forgotten what they're really there to do. like If you told a left-leaning politician 30 years ago that they had to take an entitlement away from poor old pensioners, you know they would have gone, well, no, that's the very ethos for why we exist as a party.
00:59:04
Speaker
But now they're more than happy to do that if it means that they can put more money into climate agendas or put more money into a bloated public service or or whatever um that they the the identity politics woke stuff has completely changed or fried the brains of too many people on the left. And, and you know, the one thing I've often found is the rise of this stuff, you know, I'm I'm, as you said, I'm a spectator journalist. I'm I'm a right wing, you know, libertarian type guy.
00:59:33
Speaker
But I'm more, I have more respect for old school socialism than perhaps I once did, because at least it's honest. At least it has a, at least, you know, to to quote the Big Lebowski, you know, say what you want about the tenets of national socialism dude, at least it's an ethos. And, and you know, the the the left, I don't think have anything that really binds them together under, other than the incoherence of this sort of warped ideology they now they now cling to. Yeah.
01:00:04
Speaker
It's shocking how bad Starmer's been on on, as you say, just the sort of pure politics of it. He's he's completely rigid. I've called him a dead-eyed shark moving forward to his next mechanical task. He can't stop. And he said, these are the tough decisions that we have to make.
01:00:20
Speaker
Now there are Thatcher tough decisions where she's like, yeah, let my approval rating go down because I have to do tough stuff. There is an argument for that, but this doesn't really feel like that. This feels like kind of unnecessarily cruel. And is it just simply that their voters are not these people? I mean, it was revealed in these graphs that their voters, the the higher more money you make, the more likely you are to vote Labour and their most popular bracket is the 70,000 plus a year. So these aren't their people. So these are reform voters. ah It looks like at this point, if you look at those graphs,
01:00:48
Speaker
as in people who would struggle to pay their winter fuel. So maybe he just doesn't care because they're not his voters. He's certainly prepared to be very callous about it. Certainly Blair would not do this and certainly not make it look like this. And isn't it interesting that his book has come out And Tim Stanley pointed this out. It was meant to be a kind of manual for Starmer, but with the snap election of Starmer getting in and already balling so much up, it now looks like a kind of rebuke to Starmer. Here's how you could have led. Well, the thing is, say what you want. I saw that that tweet. That was very funny. But i you know say what you want about Blair in terms of the positions he took. He was an incredibly astute political mind and he was
01:01:24
Speaker
at least you know for a great deal of time, a generational political talent. Stama is not a talented politician. you know He is wooden in his delivery. He shows no visible empathy. He is an awful communicator, and he doesn't seem to have a feel for where the public is.
01:01:44
Speaker
ah and so yeah yeah that that they are chalk and cheese in terms of how you compare those those two people and that's why again I go back I don't want to sound like a broken record he is there on a plate for a conservative party with a strong leader to take him out and I just really hope they can get their act together because the the opportunity is there Yeah, absolutely. I mean, although whether it should be reform or conservative, we've talked about a strong right wing party. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if spectators allowed to endorse reform. I don't know what their position is on that. I would have voted reform at the last election. Oh, really? Okay. Cool. All right. Well, that is the winter fuel. I mean, very interesting. I mean, that Maskell made comments on it.
01:02:29
Speaker
uh, is the name Rachel Maskell. And she made this weird comment where she was against the, this winter fuel policy as a labor MP and he going, okay, well, maybe they're getting somewhere. But then she was against it because it's, um, it's, uh, black people and disabled people and women who are going to suffer the most. I was like, Oh, you don't really care about straight white men freezing.
01:02:49
Speaker
I can't find that, but it was quite strange. She at least critiqued it, but then she had to throw in the woke stuff as well. You're like, is that really the issue? I think it's just about pensioners freezing, isn't it? But this is the thing because that these types of measures are not in the historical DNA of the Labour Party. They've been entirely incoherent in how that they've ah communicated it. You know, this was, after all, a Labour policy that was implemented by Gordon Brown.
01:03:10
Speaker
If a Tory party, and I can say a Tory party in a different universe basically saying, this is the start of a broader range of reform measures, this is unfortunate, but unfortunately we do have a bloated ah welfare and entitlements program. We are heading towards a fiscal cliff. We need to make some tough decisions, but this is going to be in conjunction with you know cuts to the public service. This is going to be in conjunction with a range of other measures.
01:03:34
Speaker
I can see how that could be sold. you know I'm a small government guy. I can actually see how that is a very difficult but perhaps necessary thing to do. But the Labor can't communicate like that because it's not in their their institutional DNA. So it's just been complete and total mess in how they've tried to argue for it. Yeah, a great point. And and what is in their DNA is giving money to unions. And it just looks like they've given them all the money to the train drivers and not to the pensioners. Yeah, in Mascula, I found it's on Talk TV. She said, it's women. It's people from black and ethnic minority families and disabled people. We've got to protect them over the winter. It was kind of a weird comment.
01:04:04
Speaker
okay straight white ah old men must die. But um, all right, maybe we'll end on a fun one then, after the very non fun winter fuel payment. And that is um Diane Abbott reveals reason she stopped dating Jeremy Corbyn after Nightmare Date. So I guess she's got a book coming out. So we're gonna hear a lot about old Diane Abbott. And she talked about her relationship with um Jeremy Corbyn.
01:04:28
Speaker
And she says i had a range of interests and enjoyed reading in the theat but jeremy was ninety nine percent absorbed in party politics the other thing i remember him spending time almost was growing vegetables in his back garden the only other thing once after i lamented our lack of social activity as a couple he pondered it for a few days and told me we were going out Feeling excited, I dressed up nicely and we bundled into the car. I had no idea where we were going. Perhaps a nice wine bar? It turned out Jeremy's idea of a social outing was to drive me to Highgate Cemetery and proudly show me the tube of Karl Barth.
01:04:59
Speaker
i be i've i've been I've known about this story for several days. I still find it very funny. I like everything about it. I mean, the fact that he's so absorbed in party politics, so autistic, he just focused on that. And the only other thing you can do is mess around with his vegetables. I have to say, it reminded me of me. All I do is work. Just change party politics for podcasts and you basically got it got me. And i yeah isn't it just like, I can't even relate. Instead of going to the tomb of Karl Marx, you're going to the ah the the the church, the the burial site of Margaret Thatcher. Yeah, it wouldn't be my choice of tomb. That was my only critique. But what man hasn't been in a position where he's like, Oh, no, she wants to do something on a date. What do I do? I can't suggest anything I actually want to do because ah they're all probably weird i ideas. So you have to come up with something. What would you see like? But he's completely failed here. He just gone with his interest. But women don't like our hobbies. They want to have fun. They want to go somewhere interesting, like a wine bar. They want to go on a holiday. Men basically want to
01:05:54
Speaker
And this is obviously very broad, but I'm totally correct. Men just want to work on their little things, their little hobbies, their little, their work pursuits. And we don't even want to do anything like that. I hate, and I personally hate social events, even though I was honored to be invited to one at the weekend.
01:06:08
Speaker
And there was also some important people there. I just thought, this is a waste of time for me. I can't do it. And I was with a nice girl, but she was like, yeah, you know, not I couldn't do such things. i I thought I was doing so well. And I'm like, oh, I just can't do this stuff. Anyway, did you relate to any of that, Willow? Yeah, I did. You spot on. In fact, this is the first time I've ever really come to appreciate yeah Jeremy Corbyn because I went, you know what? You know, I've actually got a weird thing for kind of old European cemeteries. I could just kind of walk through them for hours and you know, ponder my own insignificance in the grand scheme of history. And, you know, I can very much try and see getting, you know, a bird involved in that kpop. But i you're right. ah It is. I thought back to Bernie Sanders and how he went on his honeymoon to the Soviet Union and Stama spent some time in the Czech Republic when he was still part of the Soviet Union. It is very, very odd, these kind of commies and, and you know,
01:07:05
Speaker
how they kind of are so often just hiding in plain sight. it's um But yeah. When you're too lefty for Diana as well, that's a bit of a worry, isn't it? You're like, can you tone it down a bit, Jeremy? The woman who said that Mao on balance did more good than harm on the BBC, she said this openly, she's going, can you tone it down a bit? The person who didn't mind that so the person who killed 80 million people and said actually it was a bit of a good egg, this complete psychopath, Mao, who by the way, just had horrific gum disease because he never even cleaned his teeth or anything. The guy just is like a... Oh, I didn't know that. No, he's an absolute grotesque monster at all levels. He's stank. like he The more you look up about Mao,
01:07:45
Speaker
not a good guy. yeah um I've really gone off him, the more I've learned about it. um the The personal hygiene was the last straw. I'm trying to remember some of the other stories, but he was just an absolute monster.
Historical Perceptions of Mao vs. Other Dictators
01:07:56
Speaker
I mean, they used to mutilate the and bodies of his enemies and then they'd sort of like come down the river and people would see them. It's just like, it's just shocking the stuff that I mean Mao was horrific, but the idea that Mao did more good than harm, and then this is the person saying, Jess, can you turn it, turn it down a bit? Do we have to go through too much? He gets a relative free pass in history. Mao, you know, kind of Hitler cops it, Stalin cops it. Mao gets away relatively, relatively scot free. Whereas I think he probably has the highest body count of all of them. Isn't that weird? I know. I think it's because we, we can't, we still, cause it's China and it's like far away and we don't really like, oh, it's just some Chinese people. I think there's a weird, there's a Western centralism to it, right?
01:08:36
Speaker
Maybe I think it is that, you know, fascism is evil. You know, Hitler was evil. Still, communism has too many people like the Jeremy Corbins. Oh, well, we've just got the implementation wrong in the past. But really, it's a noble ideology when it is, in fact, an evil ideology. And that's why, again, if someone was to go to the burial site of Hitler,
01:08:54
Speaker
that would be the end of their political career. The fact that he's going to the burial site of Karl Marx, who's been responsible for so much suffering over the 20th and 21st centuries, but he can get away with it, is a very interesting little insight into how we view Far Left and Far Right. Yeah, of course, because Hitler has this lurid sort of recent memory. We we all grew up within our grandparents fought against him and so on, and the endless documentaries, the endless films, there's like Malin, Stalin, we're much more vague on, as you say, Stalin is catching up a bit. Malin, we're very vague on And Marx, yeah, I mean, then people say, well, that's just the theory and it was implemented wrong. I've been to Highgate Cemetery. It's near me. A lot of people in London have been. You do see that and it's the massive Karl Marx head on top of the cemetery. It is very memorable. I didn't go down specifically to look at that with Diane Abbott, but I have been.
01:09:39
Speaker
That was on a different day. It's funny kind of living in London and ah you go around and you see the blue plaques of where notableable notable people have lived. And one of the great lessons when you do those blue plaque hunts is that communist leaders almost invariably lived in very posh houses or indeed had very posh tombs. you know it's some
Podcast Conclusion and Promotions
01:10:01
Speaker
There's there' is one consistent theme throughout history and that is that the leaders on the left do not practice what they preach.
01:10:08
Speaker
i'm I'm shocked and disillusioned by that, Will. Maybe that's a fun point to end, the Abbott story, bit of fun for the ending. I think we covered loads of good stuff there. Yeah, but covered pretty much everything. um Where can people find you, Will?
01:10:22
Speaker
ah podcast is titled fire at will available on all good podcast platforms, YouTube, Spotify, Apple podcasts. Uh, I'm also on sky news Australia and I'll be on this Saturday, the five with Darren Grimes on GB news. So make sure you tune into that one. Oh, cool. Yeah. The fire. I mean, Dan asked me to do age gun. I didn't get around to it and you're going to beat me to actually doing it. So I didn't know you're on GB. Okay, cool. Yeah. Well, I'm on headline. It's of course, but I don't even really mention it. I'm just so used to doing it now, but, um, so yeah,
01:10:52
Speaker
check out Will on the 5, and we'll put your links in the show notes for Fire at Will, et cetera. And if you want more from me, go to nickdixon.net. I need to sort out my pitch because we've got so much great stuff on there now. I'm getting a new exciting guest episode out very soon, which will only be on nickdixon.net. You get my solo reaction episodes, you get my articles, and you get to support me and help me pay all the staff and everything and just keep going and fighting the culture war and single-handedly saving the West. So go to nickdixon.net. It's five quid a month.
01:11:21
Speaker
which is a price of a one drink with Diane Abbott from the wine bar that they didn't go to. And and it's even cheaper if you get the ah yearly options. So go to that and ah nicknixon dot.net for all your culture war needs. So, and just once again, thank you very much for doing the show, Will.