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00:00:01
Kirsten Maitland
50 Plays1 day ago
Thanks for listening to our episode with Kirsten Maitland.
To keep up with or connect with Kirsten:
✨Rebel Cheese’s Website: https://rebelcheese.com/
✨Rebel Cheese’s Instagram: @rebel.cheese
✨Kirsten’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirstenmaitland/
To stay in touch with Meredith and Medbury:
Follow Meredith on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredith-farley/
Follow Medbury on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/medbury_agency/
Subscribe to the Medbury newsletter: https://meredithfarley.substack.com/
Email Meredith: Meredith@MedburyAgency.com
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Transcript
Journey to Rebel Cheese
00:00:03
Speaker
Kirsten, hi, good morning, and thank you so much for doing this with me. Good morning, thanks for having me. For anyone who doesn't know you, can you describe who you are and what you do? Yeah, so I'm the co-founder of Rebel Cheese. We basically make artisanal plant-based cheeses. Some of our cheeses we cave-age for several weeks. That's what really sets us apart. And we've been around for coming up on seven years now.
00:00:32
Speaker
That's incredible. How did you end up here? What was your career journey up till starting Rebel Cheese? And tell us all about it It's been quite a journey, to be honest.
Inspiration from Family Loss
00:00:42
Speaker
So you may be detecting a little bit of an accent. It really comes out when I have wine or I call my friends at home. But I actually grew up in England in a tiny little village and still friends with everyone there that I grew up with and they still go visit. And when I was really young, my dad passed away from cancer. i was like 14, 15, coming up on 15 when he passed away.
00:01:07
Speaker
Obviously, I just, he was my only parent there. My other parent was in the States. So when that happened, I moved to the States to live with my mom, but it planted a seed in me at that very young age of 15, that food is medicine and food can really, what you put into your body is really important and it can really have an impact on like your health and wellness. So that seed was planted at an early age and it was always in the back of my mind. It took me a couple of decades to get there where we started Rebel Cheese.
Career Path and Skills Acquired
00:01:41
Speaker
I started in the Navy, I was on a ship. I was one of the first women back then to check into the ship. And that taught me a lot of like resilience and grit. enabled me to do all the all-nighters I needed to do, like after we aired on Shark Tank and all of that. So that was an experience. I did that for four years and then I went into tech, which is a great experience for me.
00:02:07
Speaker
i love to solve hard problems. I've always been very innovative. i spent over a decade doing that, helping teams build products, deliver innovative things faster. But after doing that for a while, large companies like Microsoft and Expedia, I started feeling this pull to do something that better aligned with my values, which at the time there were veganism, the animal welfare, the planet and our health. So my husband and I, we were brainstorming and we're plant-based ourselves.
Founding Rebel Cheese
00:02:44
Speaker
And we were struggling to find high-end cheeses that you could put on a cheese board or pair with wine. so we're like,
00:02:53
Speaker
Let's do this. We started experimenting. We were blown away with what we were able to create in a little tiny wine fridge. And we just went for it and opened our brick and mortar in Austin just over six years ago, right before COVID. and the rest is history. So it's been quite a journey. but Went from...
00:03:14
Speaker
Navy to tech to now R&D, know, making cheese. But there's definitely a lot of parallels, even though they seem like totally different careers. The skills have all been very relevant and I strongly believe have helped us get us where we are now. That's incredible. Taking notes even already as you go. Where in England were you born?
00:03:38
Speaker
I was actually born in the States, but moved over there when I was six months old. Wow. And it was a little tiny village, like an hour east of London. They got their first sit-down restaurant a few years ago. It's got like...
00:03:52
Speaker
Three tables. It's an Indian restaurant. It's tiny. And it has not changed. Other than that, I was just there last year. Everything is the same. It's the same stores, the same buildings. It's really cute. The same church. It's definitely frozen in time.
00:04:11
Speaker
Were they one of the villages that have like cheese curing in caves? is that something you were exposed to or when you were really young in that way? Or no, is that just coincidental?
00:04:22
Speaker
later? It's a good question. France is like a $20 ferry away. That was one subject I struggled with in school. The others is were actually weren't too bad. i was able to figure those out.
00:04:36
Speaker
But learning French for me was so hard. So I would try to immerse myself in it and go over, take the ferry and try to talk to people in French and listen to them and to try and help. And i was definitely influenced by the cheeses there. There's nothing I love more than like brie on a baguette with some fruits and greens. It's definitely one of my favorite things. And When I had the first bite of our first brie test that came out of our tiny little wine fridge, that was when I knew we were onto something because it was so nostalgic to me, very similar. It has the same rind as a dairy brie. And that's what truly convinced me to keep moving forward with this idea.
00:05:23
Speaker
Incredible. And then when you came over to the States, where in the States did you grow up as when you were 14? Yeah. So I moved to l a initially and
Struggles and Navy Experience
00:05:36
Speaker
it was really challenging. it was very different from what I was used to. i didn't have a car, didn't really have a support system. Never lived with my mom growing up and that didn't work out. So i was pretty much on my own. i had two, three jobs working in coffee shops and restaurants as where I learned a lot about that industry and really wanted to go to school, but I couldn't because it cost a lot. I didn't have a way to get there. So that's why I joined the Navy because I knew that would be my path. to school, it'd be one way to get there. And it it did help with that. It was a good thing to do at that time.
00:06:18
Speaker
That's incredible. And then when you left the Navy and moved into tech, what were some of the roles that you were doing at these tech organizations? So I started, it's funny how I transitioned into this actually. I was in an accident when I was in the Navy and they transferred me from the ship to the base.
00:06:38
Speaker
And at the same time, they transferred my captain and they had me answering phones initially. And he saw me and asked me what I was doing. And I told him, and he said, I can't see you doing that. I'm going to put you in tech. I had zero tech experience, like none, zero. and he just threw me in there and they just started giving me tickets and I figured it out. So it was very much like hands-on, on-the-job training. my God.
00:07:05
Speaker
yeah Perfect training for tech, which I feel like is just constant. Okay, let's figure it out. It's true, actually. And that ended up being my career. So I started fixing computers, fixing software problems and things like that.
00:07:20
Speaker
And continued that at the sheriff's office and just worked my way up. My last role was as a consultant helping some of these large companies. I would move around and do engagements. But yeah, I worked my way up from fixing and building and repairing run over computers that the cops would run over all the way up to like coaching teams, delivering software that impacted millions of people.
00:07:47
Speaker
Wow. Incredible. You have such an amazing story. Oh, thank you. Thanks. And then from the time you started, where did Shark Tank fall in the timeline of Rebel
Shark Tank and Business Resilience
00:07:59
Speaker
Cheese? Was it really what catapulted you all? How long were you working on it before you were on the show?
00:08:04
Speaker
Yeah. so as I mentioned earlier, when we opened our restaurant, we opened it three months before COVID hit. And it was this brand new concept. We had no idea how it would do.
00:08:17
Speaker
It did great when we opened it. We had lines out the door and stuff like that, but then we had to close. So we're like, oh no, what are we going So we started trying everything. I was applying for grants, PPP, Shark Tank, every competition and award that was out there.
00:08:39
Speaker
I was applying for it. We were just in this survival mode because we were so new We had all this debt to open this place. After... I think we actually applied two times before they reached out.
00:08:52
Speaker
And then they finally reached out. We aired two years ago. So they reached out about three years ago. And the whole time they told us, you may not make it on. You may, even when you film, you may not make it on. So you're being told that.
00:09:09
Speaker
So you're trying not to get your hopes up. because you don't want to be disappointed, but they are still up. Yeah, so that was just over two years ago that we aired, and it had ah obviously a huge impact.
00:09:21
Speaker
I will say, though, the important thing with something like that, any kind of visibility like that, is maintaining that impact. That was like a big thing that we learned previously because we were in the New York times before that, and we had a spike, but we didn't maintain it. We didn't have email flows set up where we were capturing and following up on email addresses. We didn't have any kind of paid ads going.
00:09:48
Speaker
So we learned from that and we were able to sustain that momentum because we did those things. I think that's amazing advice. And I understand your point there.
00:10:01
Speaker
When i have, okay I have a couple of questions on that. But one thing I'm really curious about is how You've described so many kind of high pressure situations where you're, it seems like you're so like resilient and creative and just a life force that keeps moving forward and trying things. Like how much does stress impact you? Like it's COVID, you've just taken out a ton of financing to make this business go.
00:10:30
Speaker
Obviously the steps you're taking are really proactive and positive. What's the internal experience for you? Are you also pretty calm or are you like, nope, but I'm not sleeping. I'm a mess.
Managing Stress as a Business Owner
00:10:39
Speaker
Yeah. Moments specifically and not all the time.
00:10:44
Speaker
That's a great question, honestly, and it's a huge problem. that I don't feel like it's talked about enough. So, you know, I'm going to little bit vulnerable here. it impacts me greatly and it's something I'm always working on. i constantly have neck pain. i was just at the pain clinic yesterday getting like nerve ablations because I always have pain in my neck and I do think the stress has contributed a lot to that. So,
00:11:11
Speaker
I'm always, it's something I'm always working on to try and make it more manageable. I take time in the morning, like 20 minutes, silence, thinking about what my priorities are for that day.
00:11:24
Speaker
I try to to focus on the things that I can control, always looking ahead. If we're experiencing challenges or uncertainty, and I feel like there's a lot of that right now, instead of getting caught up in that, because that's like an easy way to spiral, right? yeah What can I control? What else can I do to fight against this uncertainty that's coming after my business? Yeah.
00:11:50
Speaker
Yeah, it is a big thing. I feel like it's obviously it's like unavoidable when you have so many people that work for you, that are dependent on you and the customers, i want it's important to me that every single customer experience is perfect.
00:12:08
Speaker
And I carry that. I really, I care so deeply. it's like I carry the load of that every day. Yeah. I really appreciate you being so vulnerable and transparent and sharing that. It's resonating with me, fellow neck pain, stress-related neck pain, and also TMJ. I can't help it. I just constantly clench my jaw. i I appreciate you sharing all that. I do think sometimes I'm always so curious about the interior versus the exterior because I think, and I think a lot of folks listening are all like trying things, trying to build something.
00:12:39
Speaker
And it's easy to look at a story of success and be like, oh, they must now be at the place where they feel like they've arrived and they're just joyful, easy days and everything's great when the reality is it's such a complex experience. And I appreciate you sharing like you are carrying the hope that the folks who work for you and the folks, your customers have a great experience. And that's a lot. It's on your shoulders. Not that's a bad thing, but so anyway, thank you. What is like an everyday in your life like right now?
00:13:07
Speaker
Yeah. So in the morning have my coffee, multiple coffee. it Again, my my eyes aren't even open and I'm like drinking coffee. and like I mentioned, I've made it a priority to carve out time in the morning to just silence, not on the phone, not on the computer. and I really try to identify like, what are the top three things I need to get done that day? They're really important to try and make the day more manageable and less stressful and make sure I'm focusing on the right things. And then when I get to work, I'm going through my emails and invoices. Invoices have been interesting lately because there's all these crazy tariffs that keep coming up and prices going up. Like,
00:13:56
Speaker
For a cheese paper example, we had a $2,000 tariff that I wasn't expecting. Oh gosh. Yeah, that's like and a top priority for me is like looking at that stuff, anything financial, keeping a pulse on that and making sure there's nothing like unexpected coming up that's not being managed.
00:14:16
Speaker
And then after that, today, after this, I'm going to try all of our products. We try every single batch. We also have tests always going. We're always doing r and d to see if there's anything else we can do to continuously improve, like new product development. So going to be doing that after this. That's a huge part of our DNA.
00:14:40
Speaker
And I think a key thing that differentiates us. And then there's always fires in between, but I'm also developing some new cheeses around a new protein ingredient. It's called animal-free casein. So it's responsible for the stretch and the melt. It comes from precision fermentation. It's very clean. So that's like a big thing we're focusing on this year. It's like it could potentially be like a huge development because it's really the last missing piece in terms of vegan cheese. Like that stretchy, melty little bit there. Oh my gosh, that sounds incredible. Do you have what are some of your favorite products right now? Or if someone listening is interested, they're like, okay, I really want to try some I'm going to order where should they start?
00:15:24
Speaker
The brie, I call it my cheese baby. It's when we were on Shark Tank, Mr. Wonderful said he couldn't tell the difference. And he terrified me. I've watched him, I've watched him destroy food products. So he was right across from me and I was so scared.
00:15:43
Speaker
And that's what he said about the brie. So is it's our hero product. it's I think it's the closest to, and it takes us two weeks to make. That's another reason I call it a cheese baby. We tend to it every single day.
00:15:58
Speaker
goes in a cheese cave. It's very special. So that's my favorite. Followed by the smoked cheddar. is we cold smoke it. It's super flavorful. You can grate it and shred it.
00:16:12
Speaker
And then our tomato fromage is like our fresh, herby Mediterranean style cheese. Those are like my top three favorite cheeses. ah sound delicious. I'm getting hungry just once. Can you talk a little bit about like the fermentation process and the product creation from start to cheese cave to finish?
00:16:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's quite a process. It's funny, i call or process ingredients, like I see the cave as an ingredient because if we didn't have it, yeah the product wouldn't be the same. It's a very important piece. So going back to our brie, it's just five ingredients. It's just cashews, water, salt, cultures, and protein.
00:16:56
Speaker
So it's very clean. But what makes it the product is our SOP, so our process, which is multiple pages long. It goes through so many steps and it has a lot of very strict boundaries that we follow when we make it.
00:17:12
Speaker
So we start by making our own house-made cashew milk. We make everything in-house by hand. Nothing is really automated except for the packaging.
Artisanal Cheese Production
00:17:23
Speaker
And then once we make that fresh milk, we culture it and we have a blend of cultures that we get from Europe that we've, it's our own custom blend that we've refined over the years. And that's what gives it the flavor and the rind.
00:17:38
Speaker
And then after it's been cultured for a day, we then mold it so it gets its shape, take it out of the molds after a day, another day.
00:17:49
Speaker
and then it goes in our cave and that's where the cave is like warm and humid. And that's where it grows that beautiful white rind. And in the cave, we tend to them every single day. We're monitoring them and flipping them to make sure they're doing what they're supposed to be doing.
00:18:06
Speaker
What does the cave look like? I know it looks, I know it sounds so like this mysterious like underground, rocky thing. It's not, but it's actually, it looks like a walk-in, but we modified it so that it's humid and warm. And let's yeah, it's like a wine fridge, but at larger scale. When we were testing my house, we were using a wine fridge. So it's the same kind of vibe. my um
00:18:37
Speaker
I want to talk about branding for just a moment because I mentioned before I started recording, like I've seen your cheeses on the shelf and even the label, I just think is very pretty and it stood out to me. What was that process like for you guys to figure out what you wanted the brand to look like?
00:18:51
Speaker
Oh my gosh. It's so painful. And it's still painful. Keep going. Oh, it's so painful. And we're actually revising it right
Building a Cohesive Brand
00:19:02
Speaker
now. Like, Oh,
00:19:04
Speaker
Yes, I have to take a deep breath on that one. I get your heart rate up. No, I appreciate that it was a positive experience for you. And I'm so happy to hear that. Yes. So we've gone through a lot of iterations. And again, we're actually launching a new label here soon that we just improving it. It's not a drastic change. And the reason for that is we're getting placed in the specialty set a lot next to all the dairy cheeses. So we're just making sure we can stand out as much as possible when we're next to all those other brands. Yeah.
00:19:40
Speaker
So we We've been, yeah, we've, the name took hundreds of iterations. The label did the challenge that I found is you can come up with something that works great for label, but does it work well for your website and your newsletters and your boxes and all these other things? That's, what's really hard is like being able to come up with a brand that you can apply everywhere.
00:20:09
Speaker
So, you know, a color might look good on the label, but then it might look terrible on the website. that's I remember thinking it stood out to me and I like picked it up and I was like, oh, what is this? I think the name's great, but I feel your pain. I feel, I don't know, like in Medbury's work, we're helping clients with personal branding strategy, content. What are the content pillars for them or their brand? That stuff comes very easily to me. It's okay, got it. When it comes to Medbury stuff, i feel like it's a nightmare. Yeah. I don't like we're redoing our site. I think it's gonna be a lot better, but I feel you on it. The branding stuff.
00:20:42
Speaker
It's like some people, i think it's just always an evolution and it's always moving for I like the end result you've got going right now. That's amazing to hear. Thank you. I'm so happy to hear that because we have put a lot of thought into it. The other thing that I find challenging, I wonder if this is true of other people too, it can be really hard to articulate what you're looking for when you're working on branding. It's for me, i don't know it until I see it.
00:21:09
Speaker
And so it's hard to improve and adjust if you can't articulate what you want the end result to be. Yeah, totally. And I think one thing we've found helpful is lots of tons of examples, ideally as tangible as possible to talk through what you like, what you don't like about things, but then also doodling, like drawing out, trying to show the designer and be like, this is what we're picturing.
00:21:37
Speaker
I'm sure you've done the same, but one thing I feel like happens with branding conversations is it ends up being a lot about words when my version of ethereal and your version of ethereal could be so different. So it really has to be like very specific in so far as the visuals, but yeah, it's hard. I do think it's always an evolution and it's always changing. And so always thinking of it as V3, V4, can be helpful.
00:22:05
Speaker
Yeah, that's good advice. but My next question was going to be what aspects of the work are hardest for you? Maybe you'd say the branding side. I don't know. Or is there something else? Like what do you feel like is the biggest challenge or the but biggest growth area as you've grown the business?
Changing Perceptions of Vegan Cheese
00:22:21
Speaker
Yeah, that's a really good question. And right now we're doing like our first raise outside of Shark Tank. And one thing I'm experiencing, and this is true for our customers too, there's a lot of these preconceived notions on what vegan cheese is yeah The slices and the spreads and the the shreds. And that's not our product. Our product truly is artisanal.
00:22:48
Speaker
It's not the same as what has been out there before. But people were looking at us through that same lens. So they're very hesitant to try. Yeah, sure, it's good. there all of There's definitely some some roadblocks that we hit you know when talking to investors, customers, anyone. When they try it, though, the good news is they nearly always convert. like It's in the 95% that do. So that's like the good news. We found ways to work around that. But...
00:23:21
Speaker
It's still, and I feel like the challenge, there's been so many plant-based companies that have closed lately. I feel like that challenge, is growing right now. And I spend all my time trying to articulate, Hey, this is not the same. This is a new category. It's specialty cheese. It's not vegan cheese, really. It's its own thing. so I'm always like looking for ways to tell that story to help get people willing and open to giving us a try.
00:23:59
Speaker
That makes a lot of sense. Like I imagine like your vision isn't that it's like on it's specifically in the like vegan cheese option aisle next to that like sliced vegan cheese. I can't remember the name of it's like its own category that could be on a really a cheese board, even among other dairy products. That's still just like interesting and delicious. Exactly.
00:24:22
Speaker
That's just it. And, um, Because it's so new and hasn't really existed at scale before, people be very hesitant. We have grown though, even with that, there is demand for it. A lot of people can't eat dairy and they want this. So that's the good news. That's like the flip side, but there's definitely still a little bit of hesitation out there that I'm navigating every day. Totally.
00:24:51
Speaker
That makes sense. Now on the flip side, what would you say are things that came easiest for you in the business? What are the the things that just felt like, I just fell into place. That was straightforward. One thing that really surprised me actually was the demand for this product.
00:25:08
Speaker
We had no idea how it would do. We just jumped right into the brick and mortar. And when we opened our doors the day of, there was a line down the street. whoa And I was like, oh my gosh, phew. Okay. We might be okay.
00:25:23
Speaker
but Because we left our successful careers for this. No idea if it would survive or not. And we're like, okay, good. and And I've seen people drive hours for it. And when we do like street fairs and stuff, people roll up with coolers and they fill up their coolers. Because 60% of the population that has some sensitivity to dairy, yeah they love cheese. Like they still want to have the date nights around a cheese board or the girls' nights or picnics. So, and cheese is actually addictive too. It has addictive properties in it. It does? Like truly addictive? Yes. Can you say more about that? I mean, I'm suspected. didn't know. Yeah.
00:26:06
Speaker
Yeah, it does. So there've been studies that have been done on this. So this is based on science. I swear I'm not making this up. And there's ingredients in there that make it addictive that have the same triggers as like drugs do.
00:26:22
Speaker
it gets like your dopamine going. Yeah, exactly. play So when people suddenly can't eat cheese because of an allergy or decided to for other reasons, That doesn't stop that yearning for cheese. So this was something that surprised me. I wasn't expecting like such a demand and it's for a huge variety of reasons. There's new, there's a new allergy out there called alpha-gal that's created by ticks that will make you allergic to dairy overnight.
00:26:55
Speaker
Wasn't expecting that. and That's been the thing that has surprised me. And but even before a Shark Tank, we were growing year over year. And I think that's one of the reasons why.
00:27:07
Speaker
Wow. That's incredible. Kirsten, you're such an incredible interview and you have such an awesome story and energy. And I'm really grateful. Like, thank you so much for taking the time. I love talking to you. Oh, thank you.
00:27:19
Speaker
For folks who are listening and they want to learn more, get their hands on some cheese, follow you guys, where can we send them? And we'll throw all of these links in the show notes.
Where to Buy Rebel Cheese
00:27:29
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. Rebelcheese.com is our website. We ship everywhere in the States.
00:27:38
Speaker
So we're also in stores. We're launching in Whole Foods California next month. If you go to our website and go find near me and put in your zip code, if you don't want to order online, you can see what stores we're in close to you Those are like the two main options to get your hands on our products.
00:27:58
Speaker
And yeah, stay tuned for events. We're going to be, but when we launch in Whole Foods, we're going to be doing demos there. We partner with restaurants all the time and do events. So that's like another way to try our cheese. And we have a location in New York in the Lower East Side in Essex Market. And we do like samples and such there if you want to come and just try our products.
00:28:21
Speaker
Amazing. Thank you so much. i appreciate it. And I feel like folks are going absolutely love this interview. So thank you. Thank you.